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Thanks mate. I’m using a 2-16x50 Element Optics Helix HDLR. The close shots I was only using low- mid power but often use 16x on longer shots. Cheers

Cheers mate. Hopefully it helps someone out . Most of these videos are on private land but I do hunt a lot of public land also. Mainly South Island for me.👍

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I'm Sth Island too. As a 70 year old and late getting into bush hunting I don't have the conections you youngster have who have been doing it for a while, but I'll still keep on looking.

Yeah hopefully get some opportunities in the next week or so. Cheers mate 👍

Hey mate thanks. Yes there are a few ways of getting the same result. As for the no lube- to be clear, it is just the 1 step that it’s not required. For the body sizing etc you Definitely need lube just as you’ve said. The Lee collet die doesn’t touch the inside of the neck and only sizes down- this is why it’s possible for that step only. But yes I tend to agree, it’s very important to have a good process and apply it consistently to ensure the brass stays consistent while being worked. Cheers mate 👍👍

Hey mate, these were factory federal 150s Standard Lead tip. Cheers 👍

Hey mate thanks for your support. I would say if it’s working just use it and gain confidence in the ammo combo until it gives you a reason to doubt it. There are plenty of options out there and most work fine. Fallow being smaller will have less target resistance than something like a Red so at longer ranges it would pay to try and hit bone if possible to aid expansion. It all really depends on how far out you’re going to shoot. The 7mm08 is such a great cartridge , you’ll have plenty of options with it if needed.

Cheers mate thanks for watching 👍👍

Mate I bet! 50mph is a good puff. It certainly isn’t usually that calm here. We usually are allowing for 10mph - 20mph pretty regularly but is nice to not have to for once. Winter is definitely more settled here for LR shooting. Cheers

Cheers mate, yeah she did great 👍👍

Awesome mate, what barrel lengths are you running and what is your preferred one. Cheers 👍

@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting I've not gone down the road of shortening any barrels yet. Jury still out on that one. My customs have 22" and my Tikkas I kept in factory configuration have the 22.4 inch? Never measured.

Nice, I imagine you’ll be getting around 2700-2720 from the 22” barrel? 👍 Personally to do it again I wouldn’t go shorter than 18”.

@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting I'll know in the next 2 weeks the speed. I originally loaded these for a custom Sako M581 with a cut-rifled Obermeyer barrel that is 24" long. I sold that rifle but the ammo works well in all the other 308s I have. The load data I have for that Sako is below, so yes, velocities will be slower in my current rifles since none are over 22 to 22.4" 45.4 grains of powder at different COAL as follows: COAL 2.8175 X3 - 2778, 2841, 2839 COAL 2.815 X3 - 2863, 2868, 2871 (BEST GROUP) COAL 2.8085 X3 - 2894, 2876, 2888 COAL 2.805 X3 - 2857, 2883, 2870

@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting Regarding shorter barrels, since I've never cut one short I may never do it. I am in the camp that prefers velocity. From what I can tell, I've been told time and time again, once you start using a suppressor you won't want to be w/o one. I got my first one after the hunting season so this year will be my first time to use it. I have 1 more payment on the second suppressor. Who knows, I may go down that road but after handloading for 35 years I really like my velocities and maximizing a give cartridge's utility. I see 7RemMags for sale with 20" barrels and it's in the name of a lighter rifle to carry in the hills, mountains and to use a suppressor. I get it, just not sure it's for me. Just can't wrap my head around handicapping a cartridge. If someone wants a 7RemMag but in a 20" barrel, why not just get a 280 Remington or a 708? I've been bashed pretty bad in the comment sections when I post that I like a 24" barrel for standard cartridges and 26 to 28 for magnums. There are guys with channels that shoot long range that agree with my thinking too. One aspect is I'm afraid I may go get a rifle with a shorter barrel and like it. Then I can see me taking ALL of my rifles to my rifle builder and paying the price to shorten them. That's one reason I've not done it yet. Plus, a new good barrel is $400 to $450 these days for steel. Cut that down to 16, 18" I feel like I'm throwing away hard earned money with the eight inches of steel I'd be cutting off just to toss in the garbage.

Thanks mate hope you see the positive results I did. Cheers 👍👍

Yeah mate you’re not wrong. Always got to practice and stay sharp. Cheers 👍👍

That was factory federal 150s. Ha yeah it’s a good old weapon, kicks a bit without the suppressor. 👍

@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting 150gr out of a 7mag he didn’t stand a chance 👍🏼

@kingy300wby Yeah Michaela did great threading that shot.

Thanks mate I appreciate your support 👍

Yep that’s most of the basics, I also allowed for coriolis effect , Temperature etc. To be honest mate I’ve never seen an accomplished shooter in competition or military say, “not much training needed “. You must be very good, but I find I do better when I’ve been training. Cheers.

@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting interestingly enough the knowledge of what’s important to Long Range shooting can be delivered in about a half day of classroom instruction. Skill development of course requires practice. For me to earn the American High Power Rifleman In Long-Range Award it took me about 3 seasons to get to 97+% average scores needed for the recognition, mostly about a princess and the pea sensitivity for NPA and consistent iron sight picture, as well as recognizing exacting wind counter for hits inside MOA or X-Ring at 1000 yards. So yeah if training is synonymous with practice then you are right on, even when shooting a cartridge that produces a very high MOA wind constant. BTW, the best long range shooter in NZ is Mitchell Maxberry. He was on the US Plalma Team, won the Wimbledon Cup, and is a High Master Long Range Competitor. He is a friend of mine and the only times I have beat him was when he did not show up.

Yes to me training / practice, I was meaning the same thing. I apologise for the misunderstanding. All BS aside mate that’s very impressive, much respect , we could all learn a lot from you. 🫡 👍

I would use the full length die first, followed by the Lee neck sizing die with the correct size of diameter mandrel, which will then it will set the correct neck tension on the bullet, meaning I don't have to bullet crimp! I like to de cap with a general decapper first, as this puts less presure on the full length resizing die.

​@@richardt.4224 I think I want to avoid the full length resize step

@@stefangabor8549 That's fine, but at some stage the cartridge will not feed!

Cheers mate, hope it helps 👍👍

Hi Steve I should have made my point clearer there. I was referring to “ jamming”. This is where there is no gap between the rifling and projectile and it already has contact with the lands when chambered. I have done this myself and you can actually get great accuracy however it’s not good practice for reliability. IT Will Increase Pressure And Is Potentially Dangerous. I experienced a projectile being pulled when I ejected a live round after not taking a shot. There was more to this situation- worn brass with poor neck tension ( yes no annealing back then). And I believe for some reason the shoulder bump setting on my die may have been incorrect as you should be able to “just touch” the rifling without this happening. Sounds silly but as I said hard lessons. My point is unfortunately thing’s do happen and is when accuracy and reliability can be achieved without doing this there’s no point in risking something going wrong on a hunting trip where it’s most likely going to be hard to fix. Seating to the lands is fine but it shouldn’t be “jamming “ as such. Just be aware when you are seating to “ just touch” the lands to cycle your rounds before going on a trip to ensure nothing has changed. Cheers mate 👍

@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting Good advice, Thanks heaps.

Thanks mate 👍👍

Cheers mate, thanks for watching and the information 😁👍

Good point Barry, cheers 👍👍

Cheers mate 👍👍

You definitely won’t regret it my friend. Opens up a whole new world and definitely saves time guessing. Cheers mate 👍

Thanks Tony. That’s something I didn’t talk about- annealing. Good point as I missed that but then again I was only going off the cuff 😁 cheers mate 👍

Yeah I’ve also noticed that my velocity got more consistent too which I presume was from consistent neck tension. Went from low teens to 6 fps. Thanks mate 👍

Certainly can mate. To be honest it’s a lot less than what you might think. Understanding the process really saves you a lot of money. Plenty of unnecessary money traps. Trust me 😂 thanks 👍

That would be much appreciated! Thanks for sharing the knowledge! 👍🏻

Interesting, I’ll have to check them out. Couldn’t agree more mate 👍👍

Cheers mate. Yeah I often make a dummy round if I’m changing gear a lot. Awesome good luck 👍👍

Cheers mate, glad it was of use 👍👍

I use a Hornady ELD~M 168gr at a COAL of 2.85” with 44.5gr of AR2208. This is a hot load for some rifles so be careful to start lower. 1/11” twist. There’s definitely more pressure in a 1/10” etc. cheers 👍

@controlledrecoil-nzhunting thanks , do you think the eld-m is better than eld-x Also I'm only learning, but with a faster twist like 1 in 7 would you use less powder? Also what is the load details for your subsonic 308 Also it makes sense with what you were saying about normal dies stretching the brass so much . Thanks so much , I love your videos

Yes you’ll definitely want to start with a lower powder charge and work up in safe increments. Stick to the reloading manual specs. Be aware that a 1/7” twist may be too fast for a ELD-M as there is potential to have jacket/ core separation depending on velocity. Be careful of this. However the 1/7” twist will be perfect for the subsonic rounds. The ELD-m has the edge if you’re shooting long range but the ELD-X will be better for normal hunting ranges . If you’re shooting up close it may be worth trying some type of bonded bullet depending on what you’re hunting.

Hi Jason, This data is for subsonic rounds only. Thanks for your support of the channel, it’s much appreciated. Reloading can be dangerous. I can’t take responsibility for how you use this information. Please Be aware of the dangers and to approach these loads with caution. This data has been obtained and tested in my rifles but every rifle is different. Be cautious. I recommend reading a credible reloading manual before you attempt any reloading activities. Your safety ( and others) is the main priority. With subsonic rounds I start several grains higher and work down ( opposite to high powered rounds). Make sure every round has cleared the barrel and make sure they are stable before using a suppressor to avoid the risk of baffle strike. Be cautious of misfires as they maybe hang-fires (going off seconds after). If a misfire occurs always wait at least 30sec before unloading and keep the rifle in a safe direction. I’ve had hang-fires go off 6 seconds late ( this was with factory ammunition) so best to play it safe. The thing that makes subsonic rounds difficult in a 308 sized case (or larger) Is the lack of volume taken up by the reduced powder charge. This is why low pressure, bulky powder is used. The aim is to have around 80% of the case full so reliable ignition is achieved along with a predictable pressure curve. Obviously this depends on powder type also. You can use a case filler as an option but it usually burns pretty dirty. (This is why specialty subsonic cartridges like the 300 blackout is designed with low capacity and heavy projectiles.) A combination of larger projectile weights and lower charges is the balance to get right. The bit that complicates that is stabilising the larger projectiles at these slow speeds. A fast twist barrel is a really big help here. I wouldn’t recommend anything slower than 1/11” twist in the 308 platform. I crimp my subsonic rounds to help with the neck tension as I’ve found it reduces velocity variations. So I seat to the Cannelure on the subX 190gn. I shoot a thick cardboard box at 50yards to test stability - without suppressor first. Look for nice round holes on both sides to insure it isn’t going sideways, or has significant yaw. Remember Trail Boss is incredibly light for its size so I highly recommend not using electric scales, unless they are very sensitive ones, and go with the good old manual balance types if possible as some electric scales struggle to pick up the very small increments it seems, depending on the unit. Velocity spread is the main battle with subs , so make sure everything is very consistent. Every inconsistency is exaggerated because of the low velocity. If you get this right you can shoot a surprising distance- 160yard with shoulder shots, using the SubX projectile. If the velocity spread is higher than 25fps you will quickly see vertical stringing at distance. My data is as follows: All data from Bolt Action Rifles: 308 Winchester. 190gr Hornady SubX Powder- Trail Boss. Sako brass Standard rifle primer- Winchester WLR For 16” barrel 1/11” twist: 10.5gn 1055 fps For 18.5” Barrel 1/10” twist: 10.5gn 1040 fps For 24” Barrel 1/10” twist: 9.8gn 1035-1045 fps. NOTE: Magnum primer on this load. Winchester WLRM. This should give a good idea out of most platforms. Remember any change of any component’s Could lead to a very different result. The sound barrier changes slightly with air density so I recommend having 20 FPS gap as a minimum to insure its subsonic in all conditions. If you live in very cold climates I’d recommend 1030-1040fps rather than 1050fps etc. Please check rounds are clearing the barrel when testing. They can get stuck if the load is too low. I’m currently working on alternative options for powder as Trail Boss is almost impossible to get now. I’ll let you know when I have some reliable data. This all sounds complicated but once you find a load that is safe and reliable in your rifle, you’re good to go. A 45/70govt is a surprisingly good large calibre to use subsonic rounds from, not relative to this information but a good platform to try if you have one. Hope this helps, feel free to ask questions if anything doesn’t make sense. Thanks for the support. Cheers, Tom.

How long is the barrel? I presume it’s a 308 also?

Ha I know how you feel 😂. Well I figured someone had to do it lol. Cheers mate 👍

Thanks mate, much appreciated 👍

That’s good to know mate and interesting about the 3 thou I’ll try that next time. Thanks again 👍👍

Thanks so much mate 👍👍

I would try these two die’s before buying a new press as its the cheaper choice and you’ll use them anyway. I use Hornady one shot lube and it works fine. It takes a bit to wear out a press depending on the use. So hopefully that will help. Cheers

Hi just to note unless the press is very warn I would guess it’s not the issue cheers. 👍

There is nothing wrong with the LEE press as long as it is not worn out!

Cheers mate Appreciate you tuning in 👍

Hi. Ah sorry mate. I’ve had a lot of questions about it so thinking of doing a quick video on it. Cheers

Hi, I haven’t had an issue with it but this may vary depending on the suppressor. Personally I think the 18” barrel is a better option. I have another rifle that’s 18” and it’s slightly more pleasant to fire- less bark and you are able to fit a larger over barrel suppressor also making it more pleasant. As for handling 18” isn’t enough difference to have any negatives and balance will still be nice even with the suppressor. Just my two cents 😁 cheers 👍

Thanks mate 👍👍

They sure are nice rifles. Cheers 👍👍

Thanks mate. Yes it’s amazing how much arc is on a bullet at that range. Cheers 👍👍

Hey mate. The ELD-m and ELD-x are very similar with the ELD-m being slightly softer construction and not officially designed for hunting. In my experience I can hardly see a difference between each when used for hunting. It important to note that I’m using them mostly for long distance shooting where the lower impact velocity balances the rapid expansion down to an optimal level for energy transfer and penetration. This is often on lighter game too. Unless you’re using a very “heavy for calibre projectile” presumably with less velocity I would recommend some type of bonded bullet for most situations out to 300yards and definitely on larger tough game. This 308 is only producing velocities of 2530 fps so I get away with it. I really do recommend the ELD-M though if your shooting longer ranges especially 300yards and beyond even on Red Stag sized game especially if your starting at lower velocities. All 3 of these bullets will expand rapidly and in most cases behave very similar with the main difference being the ELD-m having a slightly higher BC. This rifle produces very nice groups which are usually one large hole or a nice clover leaf if I do my part. The seating depth really makes a difference in turning your accuracy I tend to seat mine out as far as a Tikka mag will take them. From memory I believe the COAL is 2.85” I use AR2208 powder but there are other options to get better performance out of a short barrel. This just happens to be very accurate and I don’t want to change. Hope this helps , cheers 👍

Cheers mate good to see you back again 👍👍

Yeah the good old Winchesters were great guns. Thanks for watching and commenting mate 👍😁

Cheers mate . we will spend our whole lives learning in this game. There’s always more to it. Practice and living it is the only way to get better. I’m sure the good old short will pull through for ya 👍👍

Yes you’re right wind is certainly king. Being able to make good wind calls is a must, especially as hunters where wounding is a possibility if we get it wrong. Ha yep there really isn’t anything worse than doubting your zero😁 cheers mate 👍👍

I shoot in shoot LR competition and use the wind clock to value wind and a wind from noon to 6 or 6 to noon as appraised as having zero value. If the elevation is effected by such a wind I have not recognized it from a boiling condition perhaps because my slightly inconsistent sight alignment and/or sight picture would mask it. At any rate, as best as I can calculate a 10 mph no value up wind would be worth maybe 10 MOA at 1000 yards or 100 inches. I however have never shot in such conditions to have had a shot go anywhere that far off call. That’s shooting M118LR at 1000 yards using an MOA wind constant of 10 and the divergence between beginning zero and zero used does not indicate I am gaining or loosing elevation to wind. Certainly makes me wonder.

@charlesludwig9173 Yes you are 100%correct. The error was a data entry on the app I was using. Listed rifle zero was changed by 25yards. As you have mentioned no conditions would cause this much elevation change at this distance. This was explained earlier in the video 😁👍