Silent And Deadly | 11 Sniper Shots | 308 Subsonic Rounds
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 พ.ย. 2023
- Another fun mission with plenty of animals.
Massive thanks for the support. Enjoy
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Thats absolutely wicked bro those subsonics are unreal living the dream mate 🤙🏻
Cheers mate. Thanks for watching and the support. Great to see you in the comments 👍👍
*Controlled Recoil - NZ Hunting* Bravo well done, thank-you for taking the time to bring us along. GOD Bless.
Thanks mate, great to see you in the comments again. Appreciate your support 👍😁
Enjoying watching this footage as I'm dying from man flew, haha.
Awesome scenery and shooting once again. You never disappoint.
Thanks mate, ah the man flu. I find going hunting cures it 😉👍hope you’re feeling better soon.
Great video Mate!! As a fellow hunter and .308 enthusiast from the States I appreciate these videos and the time you devote to making them!! Keep it up!👍👍
Hi, thanks for your support. Really appreciate it. More on the way 👍👍
Once again your shooting skills are 100% on the money and your video's are of the highest standards. Well done once again. I have 3 favourites people I follow in NZ and along side yourself are the Clarke boys and BJ Holdsworth . Love watching all the footage. Cheers till next time
Thanks for your kind words they are much appreciated. Really appreciated your support.
Cheers 👍👍
Wicked vid Tom, and awesome shooting, what a lovely piece of the country. Man that subbie on the shoulder was spectacular. Thanks for your review on the meat backpack too mate, i might have to get one. Keep them coming mate. Phil.
Cheers, Yes it’s great peace of kit as is breathable and easy to clean. Really good for recovery missions if you stash your gear. Thanks mate 👍👍
I do love my .308 subs. I roll my own with ADI milsurp brass, Trail Boss and cast lead hollow points. Super deadly. Once you’ve worked out the ballistics, they are very effective. Great video, thanks.
Yes trail Boss Is the go. It’s just great for the stalking challenge and the opportunities you get on game you might otherwise pass up to avoid disturbing an area.
Thanks for watching. Great to see you in the comments again as always 👍👍
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting Must be nice having Trailboss, we have not seen it on the shelves in the USA for almost 3 to 4 years now. Hope ADI pulls their heads out of the old arszensky, and starts producing and shipping it again really soon. Trailboss was my favorite for 308, 45-70, 300 blackout and many other calibers for making sub-sonic loads.
Hi yes I know what you’re saying. I luckily bought a bit extra when it was available but from what I’ve heard it’s not being produced. I’m testing 3 other options. Will let you know when I’ve confirmed they are reliable and safe.👍
What camo pattern are you using?
Nothing quite like a good sniper ! Another great vid, cheers
Cheers mate, appreciate you taking the time to comment 👍
So glad I found this channel! Awesom vids.
Cheers mate really appreciate the support 👍😁
Awesome video & shooting as always my man 👊
Cheers mate, really appreciate your support 👍👍
Lovely man. Heaven! Epic work with those SubX
Cheers mate, yea they really work great.
Just found your channel and subscribed. Nice work!!!
Hi, thank you for your support, it’s much appreciated 👍👍
Epic video Tom!
Hi, thanks mate. Much appreciated.
Nothing beats a good day out behind the rifle. Absolutely loving the HDLR/ 308 combo. Thanks for the work you guys put in. Stay safe , happy hunting 👍👍
Awesome man :)
Thanks mate. Appreciate your support 👍👍
another great video with impressive shooting, makes me want to be a snowbird and spend the winters in new Zealand. Great to see another upload. Cheers
Thanks mate, appreciate your support 👍👍
Great video. Just subscribed don't know why I wasn't I've seen your vids b4. A video of the going into a bit of depth on the subs would be great. Happy hunting 🦌
Awesome mate, thanks heaps for the support. Will get onto a subsonic video soon. Cheers 👍👍
Good stuff. Great setup
Thanks mate 👍👍
Something about loading subs that’s so satisfying, I run Lehighs out of a bergara single shot, the key to consistency is weigh everything, batch your brass and projectiles by weight,then measure measure measure such good fun! That trigger cams great!
Hi, yes there certainly is. I agree every little bit counts when it comes to subs.
Nice combo.
The trigger cam is a game changer on multiple targets. Cheers 👍👍
that set up you got there .gun scope that ammo..and that quiet can..SWEET..and I completely love your shot placement !!!..nice work.!!.. I have an skool browning B.A.R.safari ll in .308...it's a cannon ..
Thanks mate, appreciate it.
Ah the good old B.A.R great guns.👍👍
Cheers
Nice content 👍 brother you jus got another sub respect man from the UK 👍🏻💪🏻
Thanks mate. I really appreciate the support. More on the way 👍👍
If I had known New Zealand was so beautiful when I was young, I would have migrated there.... Place is gorgeous.
We are very lucky. Cheers 👍😁
Great video and nice work on the goats. No shortage of them!
Cheers, thanks for watching. Yes plenty around for sure 👍👍
Glad I found your channel mate! Nice vids! Keen to see some reloading vids if you can get them up!
Thanks mate, I appreciate your support.
Yes I’ll give it a go👍👍cheers
Great Video. Thanks for the info on the subs in the comments, and great spot to hunt, cheers
Thanks mate. I’ll probably do a video on subsonic rounds specifically as there seems to be a lot of interest. 👍
Very skilful, bro. Great shots. They really didn't know what was happening. Know your tools.
Thanks for watching mate. More action on the way. Cheers 👍👍
New to your channel, but man the content was absolutely incredible! Just subscribed! I am currently looking into getting some subsonic.308 rounds, just got my suppressor.
Thanks mate. Really appreciate your support. Great to get a suppressor sorted.
Cheers 👍
Awesome video mate.I like your extended mag for your tikka.What brand is it?and where did you buy it?
Hi , it’s a precision pro. You can get them from any hunting and fishing or Gun city I believe. Very well made but not cheap.
Thanks for watching 👍
Great video, first one 9f yours I've seen. I just subscribed, I'm a hunter from Ireland and we don't take really long shots. These rounds look perfect for me. Cheers Tom.
Thank you , I really appreciate your support to the channel. Glad you enjoyed the video. Stay safe and happy hunting 👍👍
Another top hunt cobber, and some beautiful country to go with it Tom.🤠
Thanks heaps bud. Was such a great evening to be out hunting. Thanks for tuning in. Stay safe.😁👍
Great channel, thank you for sharing your hunting experiences. Greetz from Palmerston North. Peer
Cheers mate, thanks for watching 👍👍
Such a pleasure to watch. And the scenery is just incredible. By the way, are gun laws in NZ as restrictive as Australia? Thanks for sharing mate. God Bless.
Hi, thanks for watching and your support.
I think they are a little more practical but things are certainly changing quick it seems. Cheers. 👍
Hey mate, cool vid as usual. What twist is your barrel? Have you tried 2206h or 2208?
Thanks mate.
I’ve got a 1/11” twist in this rifle and a 1/10” in the other.
I’m using Trail Boss for subs.
I use AR2208 a lot for high power rounds but haven’t tried it in subs.
I may give this a go and if so I’ll let you know how I get on.
Cheers.
I went for the 300 Blackout option. 195 Grain Bullets. Nice option to have in the Gun safe. Veny Heart and Kidney fry up is a go. Good Feed.
Hi, yes I’m keen to get my hands on one.
Yeah nothing like a fresh feed of venison on the hill.
Thanks for watching 👍👍
Brother, thats some good stalking. The landscape is stellar as well. That 308win is very versatile. Finding a good cast subsonic load would be about ideal for economy and probablem even performance. Too bad Trailboss powder isnt to be found these days. Theres got to be an substitute or maybe an light load of another powder with an case filler.
Cheers mate. Yes it’s a concern with trailboss gone. I’m going to be testing some new options so I’ll let you know if I get something reliable. 👍👍
Great video mate I have been looking for trailboss powder but it’s no longer available any ideas for a substitute powder.
Hi, I’m working on one now as I will eventually run out too. I’ll let you know what I find . Cheers.👍👍
I really enjoyed that, thanx.
That is a great load you have developed.
I've been looking at doing that with mt 243Win,
but the 1-10 twist is a little too slow.
I tried to find info on that Ridgeline meat back pack
you had/showed, but can't find it Grrr.
Great video and fantastic shooting too, well done.
Thanks mate. Yes it won’t be easy in a 243 due to the lack of weight in projectiles. unfortunately I can’t find another bag either. Hope they still make them. Cheers.
Great video Tom - if you don’t mind what is approximate trajectory for this load? When switching between loads for this rifle do you just have a note of the clicks required for zero with a quick verification and then go? Cheers.
Hi ,
I use a dial up scope that I verify tracks correctly, so this is very simple. The subsonic rounds shoot 3MOA low at 60 yards compared to my high power rounds. So I simply add 3MOA to my subsonic data calculation and put 60yards as my Zero in the ballistic app.
If you don’t have a dialup scope it’s not quite as simple. If you have a reticle with bullet drop compensation you my be able to work something out otherwise I would recommend verifying zero after changing rounds. One thing’s for certain the subsonic rounds shoot much lower especially out at 100 yards etc.
cheers 👍👍
Been thinking of subs for my 308. Do you run a super load as well as your subs? What's the point of impact difference?
Hi, yes I run a 168 gr load at 2530fps .
The subsonic rounds always impact low. These subs are 3MOA lower at 52 yards than my 168s. Easy to adjust for with the dial up scope. Cheers
great video. Are you rolling your own rounds or are you taking out a mortgage to buying the factory made stuff. If you are rolling your own what powder are you using. Im desperate to load up some sub rounds but trail boss is unavalible ,
Hi, yes I’m reloading. My go to has been trail boss, however with it no longer available I’m looking into other options. I’m testing some new powders in the next few weeks. When I know they are safe and consistent I’ll let you know 👍👍
Super akce!👍
Thanks for watching 👍
Cool vid ,, cheers for sharing
Thanks mate 👍👍
Can I ask what is your twist rate on the barrel please. I shoot a lot of subs with my 300 whisper, 230 grain mp mold but I drill them to 14 mm deep. very effective and about 20 cents per round. I do like the idear of the 308 with subs and supper loads.
Hi I’m running a 1/11” twist. It only just stabilises the 190 SubX . It’s accurate and safe but the 1/10” twist is definitely better and a safer bet. Obviously if you have a 1/8” or something faster that would be even better for subsonic velocities.
The 300 whisper is ideal. That’s cool you mould your own projectiles, I’d love to try that.
Cheers 👍
Goats and doe's😂😂😂😂hilarious ROOOOOOKIE 😂😂😂HILARIOUS
Great hunt and beautiful scenery. .308 is so versatile.
Thanks mate, yes it sure is. 👍👍
Stunning scenery and fantastic shooting, really good filming, keep it up , can you please tell me what twist rate your rifle is . Cheers, Steve
Thanks Steve, appreciate your support.
In this video I’m using a 16” standard Tikka 30cal barrel. 1/11” twist.
Cheers 👍👍
Ah, another person who likes venison heart! I just cooked some for my mum tonight, from a fallow here in the UK. More people should try it!
Its a great part of the animal and unfortunately gets left on the hill far too often. Be sure to stay away from it if the shot has gone too close though. 👍👍
I'm hearing a lot of controversy on the future longevity of the .308 as the go to round for these applications, what do you think is driving that, and where do you stand?
Hi, no sure what you’ve heard but it is a lot harder to reload subsonic rounds now Trail boss powder is unavailable. That being said, the 308 is a common well designed cartridge that is very efficient and versatile. It’s still a staple in many countries and although there are many new cartridges coming out that perhaps have the edge (and perhaps even more hype of advertising) , the 308 will be around a long time yet I believe. I’m very interested in what you’ve heard though.
Could you share? Cheers 👍
Great video mate but does subsonic rounds break down in the power or are they good for a long time good shevel life cheers
Hi, I’ve personally never had them fail due to shelf life but the don’t really sit around that long before I use them. I think they would be fine. Thanks for watching 👍👍
I have a second load driving these at 1500fps. They are absolute dynamite on fallow & have have almost no recoil so you can see your hits. Brilliant in the bush, I highly recommend them.
Hi, that’s a good idea, I’ll have to give it a try. Cheers 👍😁
Absolutely amazing shooting, love the channel. Perfect combo of great video and high-skill shooting. I don't know if you check the comments or not, but I'd love to know what kind of equipment you're using (rifle, scope, suppressor, ammo, bags, etc?) in the description, because you have a truly phenomenal setup.
Can't wait to come back to NZ and go hunting!
Thanks mate. Yes I try to answer all comments. That’s a good idea I will start adding that.
In this video I’m using a Tikka 308 with a 16” barrel and a Hardy Rifle compact Suppressor.
Precision pro 10 round mag.
Element Optics 2-16x50 HDLR
168 gr ELD-M high powered ammunition
190 gr SubX subsonic ammunition.
I’m going to do a gear video soon. Thanks for the support. 👍👍
Waooow excelent video.
This guy is a sharpshooter ,I love
Thanks for your support 👍👍
What effective max range do you limit your deer shots too?
Hi, I’d say around 150 yards on hinds. Probably not suitable for stags in the roar unless you’re head shooting. Cheers
Awesome Shooting Mate. Scenery is fantastic and nice to see the animals dropping instantly. I'm working on 308 sub loads myself. Finding the Blackout more accurate with1 in 7 twist. Having a good sub load in the 308 would be great though. Would you be able to tell me what distance you are loading the sub x off the lands or COL and what velocity you are running them at 1050fps? I running a Tikka as well. 2207 is listed in the ADI manual for sub loads for BO, but problem is you can't get 2205 in Aus for the supers for the BO.
Thanks I’ll try some AR2207.
I’m crimping my subsonic rounds, using SubX 190gr , as I’ve found it helps with lowering velocity spreads so I’m seating to the cannelure.
I find 1045 fps to be a sweet spot but have gone up to 1055 fps.
Remember the sound barrier changes with air density so in pays to have some fps to play with to insure rounds are always subsonic.
Cheers 👍
Top tip there, never thought of crimping the load as I found the velocity spread a bit over the place unlike full cases. The 2207 is what I use in the blackout don’t think it will be bulky enough in 308 case. Love the bits of info you are giving out on your channel, that’s what I look for. Thinking those ELD m’s will be good for super load in blackout after watching your video on bullets.
Yes the ELD-Ms will work great at blackout velocities. Cheers mate 👍
Awesome video mate! What model of rifle were you using?
Hi, Tikka T3x 16” Barrel 308win
Cheers 👍👍
Ha. Iv been using that ridgeline meat bag for years. So good. Takes 50kg deer meat ez, straps cut ya circulation a bit but ya cant have everything! Thanx for another fun vid
Cheers, yeah I’ve had mine a while too. Such a good bit of gear. They seem to last well. 😁👍
Really interesting :-)
Thanks mate 👍👍
Always enjoy Your Channel. Can i ask what silencer do you use?
Hi, I use Hardy Rifle Suppressors mostly.
Thanks for watching 👍👍
Hey bud this is awesome, never seen hunting this way, are you using factory heads or cast lead, i would guess they be on the heavy side to keep speed down
Hi , I’m using factory projectiles and reloading myself. They are 190gr SubX projectiles from hornady . Cheers 👍👍
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting Many thanks bud
Great Video mate. wish I were there, but in South Africa
Cheers mate, get in touch if you’re ever visiting 😁👍
awesome meatbag. can you send us a link of where to buy from or what is it called?
thanks!
Hi, it’s a Ridgeline meat bag. Unfortunately it seems they have rebranded since I bought it so I hope they still make that one. Sorry I don’t have a link for you as I bought mine in store.
Cheers 👍
Another great vid mate and the scenery over there is awesome, my young fella an I did a sth Island trip few yrs back an it was breathtaking in places.
There were literally hundreds of rabbits running around an no gun🤷♂️😁
Hey do u know where I could get sub loading info for the 30/30??
Stay safe budd 🤙
Hey mate, sorry I must’ve missed replying to your question.
Please email or contact me on Instagram- details at the end of the video. I’d be happy to help.
Thanks👍
another great video ,may i ask what part of the country are you in
Hi thanks mate. In Marlborough NZ. Cheers 👍👍
The green bush looks just like the mountain cedar we have here in Texas.
Great shooting skills! What silencer do you use? And does the subsonic ammo contribute to the silence of your shots?
Hi, I’m using a Hardy Rifle Suppressor. Yes, the subsonic ammunition doesn’t break the sound barrier so you don’t have the sonic crack. Any suppressor reduces the blast from the shot but you still will get the sonic crack of the bullet unless you use subsonic rounds. Cheers 👍👍
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting Thanks for the info. Will try subsonic ammo as that may be great to hunt at feeding places as noise is absolutely minimal.
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting In Germany we can't use subsonic ammo for hunting game. Only for varmint but for that I use .17 Hornet to gain long range.
great!
Cheers mate 👍
What an incredible place to live. I reckon you've won the lottery if you live in New Zealand (or Norway).
Hi, yes we are very lucky. Thanks for watching 😁👍
great video ! very quiet your toys, what is the supressor brand
Hi mate, I’m running a Hardy Rifle Engineering suppressor. Cheers 👍
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting thanks for responding mate.
What kind of powder do you use ? I can't get a hold of trail boss yet is there anything else you can use safely?
Hi I’m currently working on a load using Green dot powder. I’ll let you know the results when I have a proven load that’s safe.👍👍
Great hunting & awesome footage. Can I ask what powder you are using? Cheers
Hi Ben,
I’m using Trail Boss powder.
Safe ignition with both standard and Magnum primers. In the 308.
Cheers.
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately that powder is like hens teeth here in Australia at the moment. I’m trying to work out an alternative. Glad you can find it there in NZ. Keep your videos coming. Cheers
@benmclean2291
Yes unfortunately it’s the same here. I just had a good amount aside. I too am looking for an alternative. I’ll let you know if I do. Cheers.
@@benmclean2291yeah primers have been crazy to get ah?? I’m on the sunny coast and eventually got some from Cairns wood u believe??
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting any advances in powder load without trailboss
Given the velocity restraints on all projectiles , why use the 308 case instead of the 300 Blackout or does just come down to the rifle closest at hand.?
Hi, a very good point.
I already had a 308 and love the versatility of being able to shoot subsonic rounds up close . Then change a magazine with high power rounds and be able to shoot to 600yards with the quick dial of the scope.
If it was just for Subsonic use a 300blackout or similar would be the obvious solution and do it a little better too.
Thanks for watching appreciate your support 👍
hey, nice video! i just wanted to know what you are doing with all those goats? do you leave them? after all you are in the mountains and shooting a lot. so what happens to the meat? kind redgards from germany
Hi, I try to recover as many as possible. Goats are introduced here so it’s important to keep numbers in check. In this case there was a track not far away so I got them out. I don’t like to waste meat. We eat goat as well as use it for food for our working dogs. We have 3 teams of dogs for mustering sheep and cattle on this property so we get though plenty of dog food. Thanks for watching 👍👍
Hi, new in the channel here..enjoying your videos a lot. Just wanna ask how far do you usually shoot with subsonics? I mean they are preety slow so i don't the effective range is that far.
Hi , welcome to the channel!! 😁
I like to stay 150yards or closer but have cleanly taken goats at 220yards. Lots of dialling to get out that far though. Cheers and thanks for the support 👍
It's not only the bullet, the rifle and the suppressor worked together effectively.
Hi, yes your right, the combination of both makes a difference- barrel length etc.
Thanks for watching 👍😁
Can somone clue me in on what suppressor can is out in front of his setup? Is it in another video I haven't made it to yet?....or listed on another site? Great vid, excellent and vital work being done to keep the goats from wiping out indigenous flora.
Cheers!
Hey mate thanks for watching. This is a Hardy Rifle Engineering compact over barrel suppressor. If you were thinking of getting one and didn’t mind a little more weight I would definitely recommend getting the Stealth model. It’s definitely quieter. I have both and there work great.
Cheers 👍👍
Great video !! What scope and magnification are you using ?
Thanks mate. I’m using a 2-16x50 Element Optics Helix HDLR.
The close shots I was only using low- mid power but often use 16x on longer shots. Cheers
Good work, and a nice set up 🍻 Good on ya taking headshots. I'm sick of people saying you should never. It's the best way to hit the kill switch, right now. If you can, and it's right conditions.
Just curious, do you have to use anything as case filler to keep the powder back by the primer? Just thinking about consistent ignition etc., never done what your doing, roll your own subsonic.
Thanks mate.
I use trail Boss powder which is a very bulky powder so it fills the case enough on a 308. Your right on for thinking that. There are so many considerations and that’s just to be safe let alone accuracy. I may do a follow up video to talk about it and how I’ve got to this point with them. There’s quite a bit to cover.
I’ve cleanly taken animals at 220yards however there was a stupid amount of dial to get to that range, but it does show how effective they can be. Thanks for watching 👍
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting Cool, Thanks for the reply 🍻
@@controlledrecoil-nzhuntingwould you share your load data and fps ? From my research I should be looking right around 10.5-11.2gr of trail boss with the 190gr subX about to load some up in the next couple days and would like the waste the least amount of tb getting onto velocity goal
Hi,
Thanks for your support of the channel, it’s much appreciated.
Reloading can be dangerous. I can’t take responsibility for how you use this information. Please Be aware of the dangers and to approach these loads with caution.
This data has been obtained and tested in my rifles but every rifle is different. Be cautious. I recommend reading a credible reloading manual before you attempt any reloading activities. Your safety is the main priority.
With subsonic rounds I start several grains higher and work down ( opposite to high powered rounds). Make sure every round has cleared the barrel and make sure they are stable before using a suppressor to avoid the risk of baffle strike. Be cautious of misfires as they maybe hang-fires (going off seconds after).
I crimp my subsonic rounds to help with the neck tension as I’ve found it reduces velocity variations. So I seat to the Cannelure on the subX 190gn.
I shoot a thick cardboard box at 50yards to test stability - without suppressor first.
Look for nice round holes on both sides to insure it isn’t going sideways, or has significant yaw.
Remember Trail Boss is incredibly light for its size so I highly recommend not using electric scales, unless they are very sensitive ones, and go with the good old manual balance types if possible as some electric scales struggle to pick up the very small increments it seems, depending on the unit.
Velocity spread is the main battle with subs , so make sure everything is very consistent. Every inconsistency is exaggerated because of the low velocity. If you get this right you can shoot a surprising distance- 160yard with shoulder shots.
If the velocity spread is higher than 25fps you will quickly see vertical stringing at distance.
My data is as follows:
308 Winchester.
190gr Hornady SubX
Powder- Trail Boss.
Sako brass
Standard rifle primer- Winchester WLR
For 16” barrel 1/11” twist: 10.5gn
1055 fps
For 18.5” Barrel 1/10” twist: 10.5gn
1040 fps
For 24” Barrel 1/10” twist: 9.8gn
1035-1045 fps. NOTE: Magnum primer on this load. Winchester WLRM.
This should give a good idea out of most platforms.
Remember any change of any component’s
Could lead to a very different result.
The sound barrier changes slightly with air density so I recommend having 20 FPS gap as a minimum to insure its subsonic in all conditions.
Please check rounds are clearing the barrel when testing. They can get stuck if the load is too low.
I’m currently working on alternative options for powder as Trail Boss is almost impossible to get now.
I’ll let you know when I have some reliable data.
Hope this helps, feel free to ask questions if anything doesn’t make sense.
Thanks for the support.
Cheers,
Tom.
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting wow, Thanks for the detailed reply/info. I'd buy you your beverage of choice if I was in the area.
Good day mate good shooting. What suppresor do you have on?
Hi I’m using a hardy rifle suppressor. Cheers 👍
Top skills and hunting ethics 👍👍
Thanks mate. I really appreciate your support 👍👍
My lord that is quite.
Cheers mate 👍
Nice Video. Good shots.
What rifle are you using (I found “Tikka with 1/11 twist” in the comments - But which one and what barrel length?
Also which scope? And how can you switch between supersonics and subs?
Cheers
Hi, I’m using a Tikka T3x in 308win.
16” barrel with 1/11” twist. I can change between subsonic and supersonic ammunition by dialling the pre recorded amount for each zero. My 168gr supersonic rounds are zeroed at 160yards while my subsonics are zeroed at 45yards if I don’t change anything. This usually works well as I’m usually up close for the subsonic work. If it’s further I’ll dial .
Scope is an Element Optics 2-16x50 HDLR. Cheers 👍
Hi I've got the same gun and wouldn't mind having a subsonic option as I'm training a dog and the quiet shot would be nice , is there any factory ammo that works , or would I need to handload?
You can get Winchester 185gr subsonic factory rounds. I would definitely limit these to 60m range. They would be fine for in close over a dog. Definitely not as effective as the SubX. They also have a larger velocity spread so test them first as the were not subsonic out of a 24” barrel but fine out of a 16”. Cheers 👍👍
So you can buy Sub X factory loads that are better than Winchester superx 185grain ?
Hi, sorry for the late reply. Not to my knowledge. Just the factory Winchester 185.
Subscribe soon as i saw NZ....can u do a video on your rig, twist rate etc....cheers from down under
Hi, yes I will be doing one of those.
Cheers 👍👍
Nice video. Do you take the goar meat for cooking, or do you just leave it out there?
Hi, I try to use everything if I can. Anything not used for human consumption is used to feed our working dogs. We also have to control numbers as they are an introduced species with no predators here. I can’t always retrieve everything but I’m not a fan of waste so try to keep it to a minimum. Cheers.
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting very good. Thank you for the info. Hope you have good hunting luck in 2024.
Cheers mate you too, stay safe out there 👍
wow your rifle almost sounds like an air rifle going off
Does it sound like that to you?
it's amazing.
amazing shooting😉
Hi,
Yes it’s very quiet. Sometimes the microphone on the camera enhances it and sometimes it’s more quiet than it is.
But when you’re using it you can definitely hear it but usually the impact is louder than the gun. It depends on terrain also. The biggest difference to high power rounds is there is no eco so the noise doesn’t travel far.
This also depends on length of barrel and suppressor combo. My 24” barrel and custom suppressor- not shown in this video, is even more quiet.
A Very safe option for no hearing protection when instructing new shooters to make communication easier,
and very little recoil.
A good option for shooting over pointing dogs also.
Thanks for watching 👍👍
Nice! Whats the twist rate and length of your barrel if you don't mind being asked?
I run these almost every hunt out of a 300aac with a 1:8 twist and 16in barrel. They're dynamite on goats. Head shot one at 5m after a tight stalk in, then another mob 55m away who didn't batter an eye lid last weekend. Always the same story, if anything i find they actually walk towards the noise to see whats going on.
Im rather cautious on deer however as lost a few earlier on. Have since rectified and had success, but head and neck much preferred with close in shots. I just use a ballistic reticle instead of dialing so standard zero for supers and different one for subs, limiting them out to 110m or so.
Hi , yes they are fantastic. I’ve used them in 24” 1/10” and in a 18.5” 1/10” and this Tikka is 16” 1/11” with different powder charge weights of course. They all are stable which is interesting with the 1/11” twist. Thanks for watching and good luck hunting 👍👍
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting Right! Good to know they're all stable across differing twist rates and barrel lengths! I got a 16in 1:8 Bergara to use them in a .308, but yet to develop loads for it. Looking forward to it! All the best! 😎
Cool vid, subs are fun to hunt with. Out of interest what is maximum effective range of your 16 inch Tikka .308 using supersonics also interested in that load (FPS & Bullet weight).
Cheers
Hi,
Thanks for your support of the channel, it’s much appreciated.
These rounds are effective out to 160yards on goat sized game in my experience.
Reloading can be dangerous. I can’t take responsibility for how you use this information. Please Be aware of the dangers and to approach these loads with caution.
This data has been obtained and tested in my rifles but every rifle is different. Be cautious. I recommend reading a credible reloading manual before you attempt any reloading activities. Your safety ( and others) is the main priority.
With subsonic rounds I start several grains higher and work down ( opposite to high powered rounds). Make sure every round has cleared the barrel and make sure they are stable before using a suppressor to avoid the risk of baffle strike.
Be cautious of misfires as they maybe hang-fires (going off seconds after). If a misfire occurs always wait at least 30sec before unloading and keep the rifle in a safe direction. I’ve had hang-fires go off 6 seconds late ( this was with factory ammunition) so best to play it safe.
The thing that makes subsonic rounds difficult in a 308 sized case (or larger)
Is the lack of volume taken up by the reduced powder charge. This is why low pressure, bulky powder is used. The aim is to have around 80% of the case full so reliable ignition is achieved along with a predictable pressure curve. Obviously this depends on powder type also. You can use a case filler as an option but it usually burns pretty dirty.
(This is why specialty subsonic cartridges like the 300 blackout is designed with low capacity and heavy projectiles.)
A combination of larger projectile weights and lower charges is the balance to get right. The bit that complicates that is stabilising the larger projectiles at these slow speeds. A fast twist barrel is a really big help here. I wouldn’t recommend anything slower than 1/11” twist in the 308 platform.
I crimp my subsonic rounds to help with the neck tension as I’ve found it reduces velocity variations. So I seat to the Cannelure on the subX 190gn.
I shoot a thick cardboard box at 50yards to test stability - without suppressor first.
Look for nice round holes on both sides to insure it isn’t going sideways, or has significant yaw.
Remember Trail Boss is incredibly light for its size so I highly recommend not using electric scales, unless they are very sensitive ones, and go with the good old manual balance types if possible as some electric scales struggle to pick up the very small increments it seems, depending on the unit.
Velocity spread is the main battle with subs , so make sure everything is very consistent. Every inconsistency is exaggerated because of the low velocity. If you get this right you can shoot a surprising distance- 160yard with shoulder shots, using the SubX projectile.
If the velocity spread is higher than 25fps you will quickly see vertical stringing at distance.
My data is as follows:
All data from Bolt Action Rifles:
308 Winchester.
190gr Hornady SubX
Powder- Trail Boss.
Sako brass
Standard rifle primer- Winchester WLR
For 16” barrel 1/11” twist: 10.5gn
1055 fps
For 18.5” Barrel 1/10” twist: 10.5gn
1040 fps
For 24” Barrel 1/10” twist: 9.8gn
1035-1045 fps. NOTE: Magnum primer on this load. Winchester WLRM.
This should give a good idea out of most platforms.
Remember any change of any component’s
Could lead to a very different result.
The sound barrier changes slightly with air density so I recommend having 20 FPS gap as a minimum to insure its subsonic in all conditions. If you live in very cold climates I’d recommend 1030-1040fps rather than 1050fps etc.
Please check rounds are clearing the barrel when testing. They can get stuck if the load is too low.
I’m currently working on alternative options for powder as Trail Boss is almost impossible to get now.
I’ll let you know when I have some reliable data.
This all sounds complicated but once you find a load that is safe and reliable in your rifle, you’re good to go.
A 45/70govt is a surprisingly good large calibre to use subsonic rounds from, not relative to this information but a good platform to try if you have one.
Hope this helps, feel free to ask questions if anything doesn’t make sense.
Thanks for the support.
Cheers,
Tom.
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting Thanks for the info Tom,
I am interested in the performance of the SuperSonic loads, I see in another video you shot a pig at 300m with a SuperSonic bullet out of your 16 inch T3.
What is the maxiumum effective range of the 16 inch .308 using SuperSonics
Cheers
@@mrspankaable Hi, if you’re using softer thin jacketed projectiles like the ELD-m you can kill cleanly out to 550yards. I shoot the 168gr which seems to go well. Just be aware that the wind does effect the 308 a lot especially at 16” speeds.
I’m getting 2530fps but could push a little more. I’ve stayed at that as the accuracy is great. Cheers
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting hey mate, thanks for the replys!!! The level of detail is awesome (takes a lot of time to reply) Good luck with the hunting.
Cheers
No worries mate, thanks for tuning in 👍👍
Great video how come you can’t show reloading videos their heaps on here, I can’t source subs for my .308 so am interested in hand loads that work for predator control 🦊👍🏻🇮🇪
Hi, TH-cam guidelines are getting pretty tough on it, but I realise people do.
I’ll do a video talking about the steps and things to watch for soon but it really is it’s own video.
Thanks for watching and I’ll try get that information to you as soon as I can 👍👍
This is real hunting in New Zealand. Great way to hunt . Can you please let me know rifle (Tikka t3 ? ) And appropriate silencer.
Greatly appreciated as it's a minefield out there for 300 blackouts
Hi Peter,
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment.
It’s a Tikka T3x 308win 16” 1/11” twist barrel. Hardy rifle compact suppressor.
Using 190gr Subx rounds and 168 gr
ELD-M high powered rounds.
Cheers.
Nice! How much, and which powder do you use for 190 gr subsonic?
Hi,
Thanks for your support of the channel, it’s much appreciated.
Reloading can be dangerous. I can’t take responsibility for how you use this information. Please Be aware of the dangers and to approach these loads with caution.
This data has been obtained and tested in my rifles but every rifle is different. Be cautious. I recommend reading a credible reloading manual before you attempt any reloading activities. Your safety is the main priority.
With subsonic rounds I start several grains higher and work down ( opposite to high powered rounds). Make sure every round has cleared the barrel and make sure they are stable before using a suppressor to avoid the risk of baffle strike.
Be cautious of misfires as they maybe hang-fires (going off seconds after). If a misfire occurs always wait at least 30sec before unloading and keep the rifle in a safe direction. I’ve had hang-fires go off 6 seconds late ( this was with factory ammunition) so best to play it safe.
The thing that makes subsonic rounds difficult in a 308 sized case (or larger)
Is the lack of volume taken up by the reduced powder charge. This is why low pressure, bulky powder is used. The aim is to have around 80% of the case full so reliable ignition is achieved along with a predictable pressure curve. Obviously this depends on powder type also. You can use a case filler as an option but it usually burns pretty dirty.
(This is why specialty subsonic cartridges like the 300 blackout is designed with low capacity and heavy projectiles.)
A combination of larger projectile weights and lower charges is the balance to get right. The bit that complicates that is stabilising the larger projectiles at these slow speeds. A fast twist barrel is a really big help here. I wouldn’t recommend anything slower than 1/11” twist in the 308 platform.
I crimp my subsonic rounds to help with the neck tension as I’ve found it reduces velocity variations. So I seat to the Cannelure on the subX 190gn.
I shoot a thick cardboard box at 50yards to test stability - without suppressor first.
Look for nice round holes on both sides to insure it isn’t going sideways, or has significant yaw.
Remember Trail Boss is incredibly light for its size so I highly recommend not using electric scales, unless they are very sensitive ones, and go with the good old manual balance types if possible as some electric scales struggle to pick up the very small increments it seems, depending on the unit.
Velocity spread is the main battle with subs , so make sure everything is very consistent. Every inconsistency is exaggerated because of the low velocity. If you get this right you can shoot a surprising distance- 160yard with shoulder shots, using the SubX projectile.
If the velocity spread is higher than 25fps you will quickly see vertical stringing at distance.
My data is as follows:
All data from Bolt Action Rifles:
308 Winchester.
190gr Hornady SubX
Powder- Trail Boss.
Sako brass
Standard rifle primer- Winchester WLR
For 16” barrel 1/11” twist: 10.5gn
1055 fps
For 18.5” Barrel 1/10” twist: 10.5gn
1040 fps
For 24” Barrel 1/10” twist: 9.8gn
1035-1045 fps. NOTE: Magnum primer on this load. Winchester WLRM.
This should give a good idea out of most platforms.
Remember any change of any component’s
Could lead to a very different result.
The sound barrier changes slightly with air density so I recommend having 20 FPS gap as a minimum to insure its subsonic in all conditions. If you live in very cold climates I’d recommend 1030-1040fps rather than 1050fps etc.
Please check rounds are clearing the barrel when testing. They can get stuck if the load is too low.
I’m currently working on alternative options for powder as Trail Boss is almost impossible to get now.
I’ll let you know when I have some reliable data.
This all sounds complicated but once you find a load that is safe and reliable in your rifle, you’re good to go.
A 45/70govt is a surprisingly good large calibre to use subsonic rounds from, not relative to this information but a good platform to try if you have one.
Hope this helps, feel free to ask questions if anything doesn’t make sense.
Thanks for the support.
Cheers,
Tom.
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting Thank you Tom for your excellent informations. I will start very carefully! Best regards from Slovakia!
Anyone find a good substitute to trail boss powder? Im about out and no trail boss to be found.
Hi, not as yet but I’m working on a few options. Will let you know when i confirm they are safe 👍👍
What barrel twist do you have? Accuracy looks great! Looks like 1:7” is used for 300BLK!
Hi, yes 1/7” would be great for Subsonic rounds. This rifle in this vid has a 1/11” twist which is as slow as I would go. I’ve used 1/10” and that has been good. I definitely think these are only on the edge of stability but they are still accurate and no problems so far. Have shot around 80-100 rounds out of the 1/11” now.
Cheers
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting thanks for the great video & swift reply 👍
@@davep3163 appreciate your support mate 👍👍
where did you find that extended mag for the tikka?
Hi, it’s a Precision Pro. They are still making them currently. They are a very similar design to the Lucky 13 mags.
Cheers
Hi, been watching your videos, can you please tell your loads for subsonic 308 as a professional deer stalker in the UK, I would really like to try them, I am currently using a 125grain nosler Bullet heads
Many thanks Kieron
Hornady subX are the way to go if you're wanting to try .308 subs mate. Thats what Tom is using, and I'm using them in 45/70. Hornady do a sub cartridge that you may be able to try out before you get into loading your own...
Hi mate what powder are weights are you using
Hi,
Thanks for your support of the channel, it’s much appreciated.
Reloading can be dangerous. I can’t take responsibility for how you use this information. Please Be aware of the dangers and to approach these loads with caution.
This data has been obtained and tested in my rifles but every rifle is different. Be cautious. I recommend reading a credible reloading manual before you attempt any reloading activities. Your safety is the main priority.
With subsonic rounds I start several grains higher and work down ( opposite to high powered rounds). Make sure every round has cleared the barrel and make sure they are stable before using a suppressor to avoid the risk of baffle strike. Be cautious of misfires as they maybe hang-fires (going off seconds after).
I crimp my subsonic rounds to help with the neck tension as I’ve found it reduces velocity variations. So I seat to the Cannelure on the subX 190gn.
I shoot a thick cardboard box at 50yards to test stability - without suppressor first.
Look for nice round holes on both sides to insure it isn’t going sideways, or has significant yaw.
Remember Trail Boss is incredibly light for its size so I highly recommend not using electric scales, unless they are very sensitive ones, and go with the good old manual balance types if possible as some electric scales struggle to pick up the very small increments it seems, depending on the unit.
Velocity spread is the main battle with subs , so make sure everything is very consistent. Every inconsistency is exaggerated because of the low velocity. If you get this right you can shoot a surprising distance- 160yard with shoulder shots.
If the velocity spread is higher than 25fps you will quickly see vertical stringing at distance.
My data is as follows:
308 Winchester.
190gr Hornady SubX
Powder- Trail Boss.
Sako brass
Standard rifle primer- Winchester WLR
For 16” barrel 1/11” twist: 10.5gn
1055 fps
For 18.5” Barrel 1/10” twist: 10.5gn
1040 fps
For 24” Barrel 1/10” twist: 9.8gn
1035-1045 fps. NOTE: Magnum primer on this load. Winchester WLRM.
This should give a good idea out of most platforms.
Remember any change of any component’s
Could lead to a very different result.
The sound barrier changes slightly with air density so I recommend having 20 FPS gap as a minimum to insure its subsonic in all conditions.
Please check rounds are clearing the barrel when testing. They can get stuck if the load is too low.
I’m currently working on alternative options for powder as Trail Boss is almost impossible to get now.
I’ll let you know when I have some reliable data.
Hope this helps, feel free to ask questions if anything doesn’t make sense.
Thanks for the support.
Cheers,
Tom.
You got any links to where I can find good data for loading 9.3x57? I just started to look, but nothing so far. It’s a hardly known round in N America
Hey mate sorry I’ve been looking out for it. I’ll ask around next time I’m at some of the shooting competitions . Someone will know. Not a easy one to track down that’s for sure.
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting Thanks! That’s nice of you. I only found one article form an online source, and I definitely need some sort of confirmation before I try it.
@jimf1964 Yes it’s always hard when your unsure of where the information comes from originally. Fingers crossed some published data is found 👍
@@controlledrecoil-nzhunting I just found one. A friend has a loading book from Norma. It’s has a section for it. Out here in Canada we’re getting a ton of these old Swedish and Swiss rifles. The 9.3x57 is a sort of wildcat they came up with. It’s hard to get set up, but I got a beautiful Swedish WW2 rifle, re-barrel.ed and probably only used once a year for $235 can. A quality bolt action is minimum $1500, and it has no where near the class.
Those high tech new rifles are awesome, but some of these old Swedish or Swiss guns are something special. Hand made on old lathes, and with an optic, can stand up to most modern guns. They just have this feel about them. They’re somehow more "alive". But I’m into antiques in general, so maybe that’s why.
Anyway, so nice of you to ask around for me. I’d still appreciate a second opinion if you come across someone.
what magazine are you using in your tikka 308 please
Hi, it’s a Precision pro 10 round mag.
Cheers 👍👍
Cheers
Thanks mate 👍👍
What twist rate does the 308 have?
Hi, this rifle is 1/11” twist and I’ve used them in a 1/10” also. Cheers 👍
where to buy your trigger cam mate?
Hi, I purchased mine from Wayne at Element Optics NZ. 0272009746.
Not sure if they are still the agents but give him a try he’s great to deal with.
Cheers 👍
Now they’re definitely a game changer. Your trigger cam hardly picked up the muzzle blast.
Nice shooting as per usual bro🤙🤙
Cheers mate. It does sometimes pick up the blast but the subs don’t have much. Definitely a game changer though. 👍👍
Dog tucker!? Goat is some fantastic meat.
A mate of mine does a mean Hangi and a nice young, tender, good condition nanny comes out better than lamb ;)
@@MrTimmytimmytimtim sound absolutely delicious! I am lucky to have access to really good game meat locally, and the goat I get is right up there with the best. Makes an incredible curry! 👍
Hi , I agree goat is great , probably the most popular in the world. However I can only eat so much myself and we have to control large numbers as they have no natural predators here.
It takes a lot to keep 3 teams of working dog’s going so we probably save $8,000 a year on dog food.
We can also sell to certified chillers for human consumption with the right licensing.
Thanks for watching 👍👍
Awesome place to hunt.
Cheers mate, yes we are pretty lucky in NZ. 👍👍