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Aloha Samhowl, So I didn't say it took me 17 years to learn to throw over 400 +. I said I have been playing over 17 years and can throw over 400 +. People write and tell me i need to throw with a lose arm all the time. That is why i said i throw with a tight arm all the time. It only took me 6 month to learn throw over 400 + with my Destroyers, 17 years ago. Aloha Michael

Aloha Jensen, I agree. I will make a video and put it in my rotation for release. Thanks for watching. Aloha Michael

Aloha Wilfredoriverajr, How are you. Hope all is good. Take care Aloha Michael

Michael, I love your videos and the content you bring. It would really improve the quality if you used a remote microphone. It always seems like you're shouting the whole video. For me, it distracts from my being able to concentrate on what you're saying.

Aloha Alanlundberg, Thanks for watching and writing. So the big thing is the wind. The wind is always blowing hard. I talk louder because of it. It comes across my ears so fast I can't hear myself. I need to my be find some were else to film. It does get tiring batling with the wind. I have a really good mic I need to trust it . Aloha Michael

@@DiscGolf101 Thanks Michael. I will definitely keep watching.

Aloha

Aloha Geenimetsuri, You generate a lot more power with your arm closer to your body. Thanks for watching. Aloha Michael

Aloha Scott, Thanks for watching. At this time I'm not but if you have questions I will do my best to answer or even make a video on topic. Aloha Michael

Aloha John, Thanks for all the tips. I do appreciate. So we're I live the wind is always blowing. A slow wind day starts 15 mph. I don't talk loud because of the mic I talk loud because the wind coming across my ears. I'm getting use to talking softer and trusting my mic is getting my vocals over the wind. So I'm finishing up 3 years of video making and I have made the videos you asked about. My on course videos, how to shot shape, me throwing. I like doing course videos they just don't get the views. I'm still making some just not as much. I do know what people are watching from my analytics on the videos. So need to do what the people want. You need to remember most of the people watching instructional videos are beginners and intermediate players. Thanks again for writing. Aloha Michael

Aloha Carnyshill, Ya it would be strange to try to not fallow thru. Body needs to uncoil . The fallow thru is were you get all your cool pictures from. Lol. Aloha Michael

What? That is not true why would you make that up?

Aloha Banned, I'm not familiar with this person Josh, Sorry. Aloha Michael

@@carnyshill684 ???

Hi. Your message will keep showing up on my messages as not answered until i answer. So I was trying to answer so it would clear. Sorry . Take care. Michael

Aloha Geenimetsuri, That's prity cool. Thanks for sharing some information on how it was done in the beginning years of disc. I meet a guy that started playing disc back in those days. He gave me one if his putters. It is a Wham-o, it has a prity good dome top on it. It's prity cool. I did a video called "Me throwing with a tight grip" . Second video called " Watch me throw. Playing 7 holes at my home course". I do some throwing in these videos. Thanks again for the disc history. Aloha Michael

Aloha Claytonmitte, That's interesting the max distance record was 647 feet. The disc were boat anchors. I saw a video Paul McBeth was in and they used the old disc. He said they are nothing like today's disc. Prity cool thanks for wrighting. Aloha Michael

Aloha wlp283, So practicing is a great start, only why to learn. It takes time to start to get everything put togeather but just keep throwing as hard as you can. Also pay attention to how your disc finishes its flight on a long throw. You want your disc to land forwards or just off of center. If your disc is finishing hard hyzer (left) you want to throw a more under stable disc. Very important to get the disc to land forwards on your throw. Aloha Michael

Aloha Abilenediscdyeguy, Ya the club guys did a good job putting together this course. The thing that makes the course hard is the wind. Always blowing. Aloha Michael

Aloha David. I don't think I even think about my elbow. I don't know if I even think of my throw. I just think on the point of the wrist hit, my be. Think I been playing for so long (18 hrs) I just think of the shot angle and throw. I do think of how hard I need to lean into the throw. I think about that the most I think. Aloha Michael

@@DiscGolf101 maybe it should be pointed down or it looks down with leaning over. I don't know. I try different things and have had some success and more control with the elbow up and not pinned down.

Aloha David, I guess the elbow moves with the shot. From a hyzer, straight, force over, and anhyzer. But the elbow needs to bend into the pocket then out. You have more power with the disc under your face. As you pole into the pocket I guess elbow would be down then on release the elbow would face 4 o'clock. Aloha Michael

Aloha AFreedomLovingTexan, Ya think I got it correct. Back leg comes behind front leg. Front leg strides out from in front of back leg. Aloha Michael

Aloha Steviewonder, I didn't see Ezra video but people like to refer to it as A walk around instead of a reach back. I have made videos on it. I like doing the reach back like that. It has a more compact feel to it and fits my throwing style. I guess it is more of a shoulder turn, then a reach back. lol, Aloha Michael

Can we get a slowmotion throw from you?

Aloha Banned, Thanks for watching I will look into it. I did just release a video of me throwing called "Me throwing with a tight grip". It's me throwing and just talking my throwing style. Aloha Michael

Aloha Mark, Thanks . Take care . Aloha Michael

Aloha RaleighRich. Thanks for watching and the message. Take care, Aloha Michael

Aloha TheSully, Your funny.Sounds like you are the one who doesn't know what's up. So you are saying a loose grip puts more spin on the disc as long as you cup your wrist a lot. Compared to a tight grip with a shallow wrist bend OR a deep wrist bend. I never said dont bend your wrist. If you watch pro tournaments you will notice people throw both wrist styles. Deep bend and a shallow bend but they all throw 400. Why is this, by what you are saying a shallow wrist bend should not throw 400. But it does because it is all about grip pressure not wrist bend. I have 18 years of throwing a disc and I can throw 400 +. I do a shallow wrist bend. I actually can't throw with a deep wrist bend just throws off my whole throw. Aloha Michael I learned from actually throwing on the fields .

@@DiscGolf101 never said anything about 400. Both are variables of the whole picture. To make the black and white statement of not bending your wrist has no effect on spin (which you did say) is completely false. I would say up to 400 neither perfect wrist snap or grip are needed as 400 isn’t that far anymore. The further you throw past, the more important each are. And I would go as far as to say wrist position is far more important than grip when thinking about diminishing returns on maximum efficiency.

Aloha , ok, in the video I said a strong wrist bend will not make more spin. Because it doesn't. Spin is generated by your grip. i didn't say don't bend your wrist. The video is on increasing disc spin. To make more disc spin takes a strong grip. If I wanted to say don't bend your wrist the video would of been titled " don't bend your wrist". Stay on content, the video is how to generate more spin on the disc. O just for fun they did release throwing distances from the pros Statistics. 4 % of pros say they throw over 450 ft. On average. Then pros that say they throw 400 ft on average is 5 %. I made a video on it. Just interesting on average only 10% can throw 400 to 450 max. wish you well. Take care Aloha

@@DiscGolf101 all but one thing you just mentioned is incorrect. Speaking in absolutes is very misleading. Not sure how you think I’m off topic so I’ll bullet point the response for you. -A strong wrist bend does help increase spin (it’s probably the greatest factor) -spin is ‘partly’ determined by your grip. And up to a point makes less difference the more firm your grip is (diminishing return). Likely a hinderance if gripped too tight. -you did say don’t bend your wrist. The literal title of your video is “WRIST BEND DOESN’T INCREASE SPIN” -4% of touring pros? You’re joking right? 5-10% of people at any local league you show up to can throw 400. If you’ve ever been to a pro event, you would see literally every card can throw well past 400. I can throw 400 on a bad day and I would not even put myself anywhere close to the bombers near me. I really don’t mean to come off argumentative but this video is flat out misleading from the title alone and doesn’t do anything throughout to correct the already very incorrect statement.

Aloha, so about me been playing disc 18 years. I practice my throwing every weekend . I get in a good 5 hours a week. My idea of practice is breaking down the throw, I don't just throw. Every throw is a learning throw on how the throw works. So that's 20 hours a month practice then I still play the course also. What I teach is how I throw and what I have learned in 18 years. Like the wrist bend doesn't make spin . I have hundreds of hours throwing on just that I didn't just think this for a video. I use to try to throw with a big bend with the wrist. It didn't work for me. I went to a slight wrist bend and it worked for my throw. Grip pressure I hold the disc as tight as I can when I throw. I don't ever loosen my grip watch my video " me throwing with a tight grip". One thing I think people don't pay attention to is I throw overstable disc only. My Destroyers are my 400 plus disc. Lots of people are throwing 400 feet with understable disc. Big difference in arm power. And here is the percentages pros average throw. 450 to 500 2% 400 to 450 8%. 350 to 400. 22% Aloha Michael

Aloha Livityvizion, Ha thanks for watching. So if you watch the tournaments first thing you will notice is not everyone does a full roll of the wrist. Some do some don't. I don't I only curl my wrist a little bit. But I can throw 400 and people with full curl throw 400. The thing we have in common is we both generate good spin to throw 400. Since we roll are wrist differently it has to come down to a strong grip that's the equalizer generates the most spin. Aloha Michael

Aloha Mike, Ha I think you mist the point of the video. First the spin on disc comes from a tight grip. The Curl of the wrist does not make spin. Some people throw with a shallow bend some have a strong bend it's not about the bend it's about grip pressure because they all throw the same distance. Someone made a video saying the disc spin is created by a bent wrist that's why I titled it no it doesn't. I can throw 400 + with a shallow wrist bend. Other people can throw 400 + with a deep wrist bend. The wrist is not the catalyst it's the grip. Aloha Michael

Aloha Wacky, Thanks for watching Take care. Aloha Michael

2x 😉

Aloha, Thanks for watching

Aloha Harp for hand, I think that that's great. I don't bend my wrist very much at all and I can throw over 400 ÷ and I generate a lot of spin. The video is not about don't bend your wrist , that's why I say people throw both styles. The video was a tight grip generates more spin then a loose grip. So your test with your Techdisc is how much spin does a tight grip to a lose grip make. The reason I said a strong wrist bend doesn't generate more spin is because I saw a video saying that a strong wrist bend generates spin. Which is not true. The grip pressure makes spin. Aloha Michael

@@DiscGolf101 You are a wise man, thanks for the response and I appreciate the video!

Aloha, Take care

Aloha Brookehoover, Thanks for watching. I film with a GoPro . The lens is a wide angle lens. I'm standing 5 feet from camera to make the video. It can't film far away. So I can't do a disc flight. Thanks again for watching. I do have a video out I did on my throwing style called " Me throwing with a tight grip " Aloha Michael

Aloha TDG, So being able to create more spin helps disc to stay in the air longer. As spin slows so does the disc. I find a tight grip helps make more spin, I white knuckle my grip. Watch video I made called "Me throwing with a tight grip". Fan grip is used to take spin off of the disc. Most of the time people will use a fan grip to reduce the spin on the disc to gain more accuracy on a approach shot. You can control how hot the disc comes into the basket. More spin the disc might hit the ground and skip out , compared to throwing the disc with less spin into basket area. Fan grip is for more touch and a power grip is spin and distance. Aloha Michael

1234Paulw, I hold tight from set up. I run up with a tight grip, white knuckles. I like it tight from start because it only takes 2 to 3 seconds to throw disc once you start your pole. I did a video called "Me throwing with a tight grip" . The video I throw and talk about why I do a tight grip when I throw. Aloha Michael

Aloha Mr Poor boy, I think it is great that you are learning to play. Its good exercise and it gets you out of the house. Start slow and take your time and have fun. Aloha Michael

Aloha One focus photos, I think the wrist bend is a peference thing. I always have a slight bend but I get a lot of spin on my disc because I grip it very hard, white knuckle. Ya that Techdisc would be fun to play with. Aloha Michael

Let us know. I'm interested as well. If I apply too much pressure on my grip I get a grip lock

Aloha Marion , Grip lock is not from your grip pressure. Grip lock happens when you stand up straight and you open your shoulders to throw the disc. Your shoulders are flat on the release. You need to bend over head on top, shoulders rotate up on the throw. This will keep you from grip locking the disc. I just released some videos talking on how shoulders need to rotate up. Look in my video archives. Aloha Michael

I’m calling BULLSHIT. The spin comes from the flick of the wrist, and you aren’t arming the last portion of your lever. White knuckles aren’t the answer either. Backloading your grip is the answer. Spin has nothing to do with accuracy. Thats suppose to be computed by the player, knowing their arm speed and what disc it is paired with. Inaccuracy comes from sucking, not getting spin🤣 Again, BULLSHIT

If every inch of reach back is critical, then every degree of coil is also critical.

Aloha ETs, "need to get elbow up", I don't pay much attention to my elbow, all I concentrate on is getting my hands up higher on my chest. But if that helps you remember to get the disc up higher on a straight shot that works. Aloha Michael

Aloha David, So the grip of the putter not loose or overly tight, nutrial pressure with thumb and pointer finger. Then middle fingers faned out under the disc. Those fingers help hold disc out flat. Power of the putt is from speed of arm coming forward and wrist and fingers firing at basket. Hand ends up in a open position. So as your hand comes up to release putter you need you thumb to roll to 1 o'clock or 2 o'clock this will bring outside edge of disc up. I always think about thumb getting over and fingers firing at basket. I have a newer video called "putting its all in the wrist". Watch and see if something clicks. Let me know if have questions. We can talk threw everything. It took me a while to get use to putting this why but you can get there. Aloha Michael

Aloha Jim, I hope that's a good thing. Aloha Michael

Aloha Bryan, So rounding happens from standing up to straight and throwing with flat shoulders. You push your arm away from your body. You throw like you are throwing a frisbee. Your shoulders need to rotate up on the throw, head on top. This why your arm comes under your face on the release. The elbow is going to bend because there is no other why for your disc to get out front. So ya at some point of the release your arm is always going to a 90 degree on the release. Nothing to Concentrate on it's going to happen naturally. You arm (elbow) is always moving around on its release spot from a hyzer, Straight shot, to a anhyzer. Aloha Michael

Aloha Banned, Thanks for watching. Aloha Michael

Aloha Phaedrus , Well I hope the video helped you with your throwing. Sorry about the 9:40 video. Thanks for watching. Aloha Michael

Aloha Anriilves, Ya but as you get better the accuracy will help your scores. I like the idea that I'm controlling the disc better. Makes me feel more confident . I think I was on average 35 to 40 feet on all my putts before I started to throw more accurate. Then I started to get my disc inside 30 feet. That's when my scores started to drop. Keep it up. Aloha Michael

Aloha Crimsontide, So first getting more distance on your throw. When I watch people here play I notice a lot of there driver shots land hard hyzer. They throw disc on tee off and when disc slowes it lands hard left. Not sure if your disc is landing hard left, but if it is try to find disc that will land forwards for you on the finish. You can gain 40 feet just getting a foreward finish on disc. Second, Over thinking. Stop doing that, lol. So when you are getting ready to throw the disc just look at your shot and grip it and rip it. As the disc flys away from you watch it and see if it flew the flat path. If it didn't analyze the throw as you walk to your disc. Poled disc to right, so I probably opened my shoulders to early. But only analyze something if it didn't go were you wanted. You are not always going to have perfect form it's just did you get the disc out there. You can't micromanage your throw. To many moving parts. Just learn what causes the problems and that ways you know how to fix the problem. What causes grip lock, rounding, nose up flight, etc. Knowing how to fix the problem is the start to fixing the problem. I don't always throw with perfect form. But when I throw the disc I can tell what I did wrong and next throw I can correct it. Because I know what caused the throwing mistake. So keep it simple don't over think it. Aloha Michael

Aloha Mike, Thanks. Have a great weekend, take care. Aloha Michael

Aloha David, Thanks. Take care Aloha Michael

Aloha Maximeg-dg, Thanks . Have a great day. Aloha Michael

Aloha Mac, Ya so many little things to think about. But knowing how to fix makes it easier. One thing I use to do is try to have your throwing arm finish over your head. Not level with shoulders, flat. This will help shoulders rotate up on the throw. Finish high. Take care. Aloha Michael

Aloha, Have great day

Aloha Sonofmoris, ya keeping the shoulders from turning flat is the trick. Head on top . The fallow thru should finish over your head. Hand up over your head don't finish with it low. But now you know so it will be easier to learn to keep your head on top. Aloha Michael

Aloha Khufuhk, Unfortunately it's always windy. We are the windiest island. We Are One of the top 5 places in the world for wind surfing. Yes it does get tiring to always play in the wind. But sometimes the wind does slow down on Monday through Friday only. Wind starts back up on weekend. lol. Aloha Michael

Aloha JustBBlunt, I think lots of people hold disc to soft. I hold as tight as I can when I throw . I have never had any problems from having a tight grip. Also remember to have shoulders rotate up on all your throws. Rounding early release and grip lock happen from throwing with flat shoulders. So need to make sure shoulders rotate up on the throw head on top. Aloha Michael

Aloha Constantfluck, When I learned to throw 18 years ago. My goal was to throw the disc 400 +. I found threw all my practicing that the tighter I gripped the disc the harder I could throw. I went from a flat thumb to a thumb up high because I could get even better grip pressure. From throwing this why (thumb up high) I noticed I get a lot of spin on the disc when I throw and easier to keep wrist down. I don't have any problems with grip locking disc or popping out early as long as I keep my head on top. Shoulders rotate up. Flat shoulders are the cause of grip lock and rounding ,early release. The real trick to throwing hard is keeping the shoulders rotating up. Even on a flat shot the shoulders go up never flat. My goal on the video was to let people know you can throw with a tight grip and arm for all your shot. I think to many people grip to soft. Remember you are throwing 50, 60 70 mph. You need to hold onto yhe disc. But I always grip disc tight and have never had any problems with it. Aloha Michael

Aloha Lostweat, ya only so many hours in a day to get some practice in. Definitely don't want to practice something that is not needed on any of are courses. But I do practice throwing all my disc hard. I always try to see how far out I can put my midrange disc . Aloha Michael

Aloha Justin, You are correct. I'm talking about throwing with a tight grip and forearm. Try it, you might like it. It is nice to have someone comment on the video then comment on something that's not on the video. lol Aloha Michael

Aloha Brian, I noticed a big difference when I switched to the thumb up high style. It just feels like I can hold onto the disc better and that I get better power on the release. I spend hours of throwing trying different arm and grip pressure and it always come back to a tight arm and grip gives me the most power . Take care. Aloha Michael

Aloha Brian, Thanks for taking time to wright. So power of my throw is all grip as tight as I can , white knuckles . Coil, Pole arm , shoulder rotation, throw disc . What can I do with the power I create. I can throw my Destroyers 15 feet off the ground 400 + feet. With a walk in run up. I don't run in fast I walk. So I know I generate a lot of power when I throw. Never been speed tested but I'm sure I have a very fast throw. Why do I mention how high off the ground and disc. Is because all the throwing videos people post they are throwing understable disc 35 feet in the air to throw 400 feet. Could any of these people throw a 400 foot drive with a stable disc 15 feet off the ground. I don't think so there arm power is not fast enough. My arm power allows me to throw my midranges 300 feet. Last have you ever heard of the towel drill to learn snap. I have videos on it. What you do is take a hand towel. Do your throw and if you can't get the towel to snap you are not using your wrist. I can snap the towel. I use my wrist when I throw. I think most people can not snap the towel because it takes lots of practice and good grip and arm tension to make the towel snap. So for me and my style of throwing is very efficient. I spend hours on the fields throwing. I know that I can run up full power and not release the disc from my hands. It will not come out. I think people confuse grip pressure and arm tension. I can grip my disc white knuckle grip. Then throw 200 feet. Because it's my arm tention and arm speed that throws the disc 200 feet. Not my grip. Or tight grip fast arm for 400 feet. Ok think I rambled long enough. LOL. Aloha Michael

Aloha PlusUltr4, When I learned to play before every throw I would look at my hand. Then push wrist down until it became second nature. Disc won't fly right with the nose up. Good luck. Have a fun round. Aloha Michael

Aloha skwerrul, can't really film speed or grip. Would all look the same. I do have a video out of me playing 7 holes on are back nine. They are the harder holes on the course. "Watch me throw , playing 7 holes on my home course KCC. if you want to see me throw. But can't really do a throwing video it won't show anything. Just me talking. Aloha Michael

@@DiscGolf101 well we could definitely see the speed/how hard you're throwing so no real excuse there, and you could just tell us that you're gripping it firmly or lightly before you throw.

Aloha , So I will see what I can do. My be try film something tomorrow. On arm speed and grip pressure. Will take some notes tonight . Aloha Michael

Aloha Nickferchau, Thanks for taking time to wright. So you beleave the disc rips out of your hand. I have been playing DG for 18 years and I don't think for a second the disc is ripping out of my hands. My grip can keep disc from ever coming out of my hand on its own. So you are saying everyone has disc rip out of there hand. The person who throws 200. Disc rips out. Then person who throws 300. Disc rips out. Then the person who throws 400. Disc rips out. But then the person who throws 400 has to release the disc on his own for a 300 ft shot. But the 300 ft person disc rips out for his 300. And he needs to release the disc for a 200 ft shot. But the 200 ft person has it rip out for his 200. It sounds very confusing. On guy said you need to throw 75 mph to have disc rip out. That leaves a lot of people having to release the disc themselves by his theory. I guess it just come down to each person to decide for themselves. Aloha Michael

@@DiscGolf101 Thanks for replying to my comment. I didn't say everyone has the disc rip out of their hand. I said that if you are throwing over 75% power(for players who can throw around 60mph) that you want the disc to rip out of your hand. I know many disc golfers who have played for 20 years and many of them don't know how to get the disc to rip out of their hand correctly. Not because it isn't the right way to throw, but because they have never worked on their form enough to reliably eject the disc from their grip with a consistent trajectory. I would tend to make the assumption based on many interactions with amatuer players that you haven't been able to get the disc up to a speed at which your momentum(force) created on the disc has overpowered your grip strength. If you look at any slow-motion throw of a top touring pro you will see their hand in a closed position after throwing a high power shot. That is because the disc ripped out of their hand. A lot of the misconception about letting go vs having the disc rip out of your hand is that it should always rip out of your hand at every speed. You will notice that I said if you are throwing less than 75% power you will need to release the disc manually, however, when throwing more than 75% power the disc will come out of your hand when you have proper form. I can throw a 12 speed 400' at 100% power, a 7 speed 375' at 100% power, a 5 speed 330-350' at 100% power, a 3 speed 280-300' at 100% power, and a putter 275-300' at 100% power. The disc selection helps determine distance in combination with the actual speed of your throw. For short distances or when throwing a shot at lower power you can use a slightly less tightened grip to get the disc to rip out of your hand more easily creating appropriate spin at the correct point in your form to stay on target. This is of course dependant on good form and accuracy. Many amateurs do not have this, but I try to base my opinions on what is best practice not common practice and on what science is available to us regarding levers, bio-mechanics, and other physics based data. I also base my opinions on what those of us playing in pro divisions tend to agree on. When throwing shots under 75% power you will need to assist the disc in leaving your grip as you hit the proper release point in your throw. You can also accomplish this by changing your grip for different shots at different power levels. Pete Ulibari has an interesting video on this subject and you might want to check it out. th-cam.com/video/9oY2fOricP4/w-d-xo.html Also, a local disc golfer to my area created the Tech-Disc. You should try one out and get some actual scientific data to base your opinions on. You might be very surprised.

Aloha, so on the video the guy says thumb comes off and then pointer finger is still under the rim . Which is let's say 1/4 thick. So some how the disc can rip out of your hand when the pointer finger has a 1/4 lip holding the disc from coming out. How does the disc get up over the pointer finger. If the disc rips out of your hand why is the pointer finger facing forwards. It should still be bent in the grip. The reason the thumb and pointer fingers are foreward facing on the release of the disc is because you have released tention in your hand to release the disc. The sound you hear as you throw the disc is sound of disc sliding down finger on release. To me his video shows, you release the disc. Fingers point forward. For me I have been playing disc 18 years. I throw on the fields every weekend. I do 5 hours a week. That's 20 hours a week just throwing my disc . I have been doing this for 18 years. I study my throw and brake down and analyze all parts of the throw for hours. That is why my videos are so informative. I wright down in my phone and a note pad all my throwing thoughts. I have lots of pages on everything throwing. I understand the throw. That is why when most people try the towel drill. Take a hand towel and make it snap with your power throw. Not to many people can actually get towel to snap. I can . My throw I can put my Destroyers out 400 feet 15 feet off the ground. I see video of people throwing and they throw understable disc 35 feet in the air , on a big anhyzer to get 400. Why cant they throw straight a head 15 feet , flat 400. Because they do not have any arm power. Watch there in the bags they throw everything understable. My bag is all overstable disc. Because I have the arm power to throw overstable disc. If all these other guys throw so far why do they throw understable disc, overstable disc are why more accurate. My style of throwing is the industry standard. But the idea that people think disc rips out is because they don't throw enough to understable what is going on. I have probably one of the longest arms hear in Maui. My tournament wins also say I'm prity good at throwing. So I guess we will just need to say to each his own on how disc releases . I did just make a throwing video were I do a death grip , white knuckles throwing . I put my disc at 200 ft. Then I drop my disc 300 ft. Then I max out to 400. All with white knuckle grip on disc. To show that the grip is strong you release disc on the line . Then your arm power throws the disc the appropriate distance 200, 300, 400.. ok well got to . Take care. Aloha Michael