Late update to this video but I figured after having replayed the game I should do it anyway. I think I made a mistake in playing the game only once before making this video, which I normally don't do. I redid each fight without using healing items and in some cases without taking any damage and I think I have a much better grasp on the bosses now. Corrupted Parade Master is kind of a joke now, and even if I did get hit by him, there are plenty of status ailment resistance gear that the decay isn't a huge deal. I would say it's still a mediocre fight, but not bad. I was SORTA wrong about the Black Rabbit Brotherhood not taking turns in their second encounter. They do take turns in being more aggressive. Buffed weapon = more aggressive. But the others do still throw projectiles at you and can gank you in a bullshit way, so I think the fight still sucks. I also don't know if they've made changes to Romeo's moveset but damn did I enjoy it a lot more the second time around, I think it's an amazing tier fight and the best in the game. Fuoco I'd move a tier down, Andreus half a tier up (bad tier is a bit harsh) and Simon Manus a tier down. Other than that, spots remain the same. So I still feel a little mixed on the game's bosses, I do feel they're too simple beyond just memorizing the timing of the weird delays. Again, good game overall.
I think there's nothing wrong with memorizing attack timing. You've literally put nameless puppet of all the bosses in 1 place. This dude has more delayed sonic-speed moves then any of other bosses. I don't know where that "all attacks should be telegraphed" kind of mindset is going from. DS3 had very telegraphed attacks. And this game becomes boring as hell after first playthrough. Because every boss can be defeated by pure reflexes and 0 moveset learning. Boss design like this is one and done thing, there's no learning potential. And as outcome - no interest in refighting them. When bosses like Romeo, Laxasia, nameless puppet and swamp monster give you different experience each playthrough (for example I didn't like swamp monster at all, but 2 playthroughs later I got to understand him, or Laxasia that I want to fight again and again because parrying and deflecting her moves like a damn jedi is so satisfying to do). And let's be honest. This game has better gank fights then any souls game ever had. Each and everyone of fromsoft duo/trio bosses are just 3 autonomic bosses that do whatever bullshit they want, this game at least has a script for them not attacking you all at once. After Elden Ring's horrible gank fights this really feels like a breath of fresh air.
@@Sargatas It is a preference thing. If that's your thing, no problem. But I prefer bosses that on the surface have movesets that don't require you to just memorize every attack's weird delay, but have emphasis on correct positioning, learning the combo extensions and mix ups, and other more subtle things you have to keep in mind even once you've fully learned them. I don't mind some trial and error, but when that's the entire moveset and there's nothing besides the memorization, it becomes boring once you learn it. I learned Andreus and Fuoco to the point I did them no damage but now it's just even more boring because I know exactly what I'm getting when I start the fight. Just remember the timing and it's done. In Elden Ring there are huge delays but they typically have a clear enough tell when that quick release is coming. Yet, you'll still have to learn things like, where should you position yourself when fighting Hoarah Loux or Mohg? Or where should you dodge when fighting Morgott or Malenia? (She is definitely the most trial and error boss in ER though and thats why I initially didnt like it, but at least there is a super complex, engaging moveset once youve learned all the moves). Romeo is one of the rare instances of having combo mix ups and great mobility, so he remains fun to me. As for ganks, yeah Elden Ring ganks are ass. But LoP ganks (all two of them) being better than any Souls game? Yeah, hard disagree. Ornstein and Smough, Darklurker, both better than both of the rabbit fights combined and then tripled in quality, not to mention DS3 with Abyss Watchers, Pontiff, Friede and Ariandel, Demon Prince. The rabbits aren't good as GANKS, they don't flow well together. They're only passable when other targets are being passive. There are times you'll get hit by off screen projectiles fighting the second encounter, and that's just bullshit imo.
@t7356 I beat Hoarah Loux 4 try, Morgott and Mogh both fell 2 try without shackles and crystal tear. Because they have pretty low hp, low resists and spend too much time in scripted animations while I smack them with a sword for free. I haven't even tried to memorize their movesets until NG+6 where they have enough HP to endure (Morgott can't even on NG+7 btw, he would be much better of a boss if he could use his moveset, he has a very good and diversive one). Malenia has literally one hard-to-dodge attack. Out of my 2 hours on her 1,5 of them were spent just to adapt to waterfowl dance. The rest of her moveset is very convenient and easy to dodge (but this can be because I got used to play very fast-paced games and Malenia is the only boss that I considered at least bearable in terms of speed, but still slow). In souls games there's only one good duo boss. Twin princes. Because it's not two autonomic bosses thrown at the same arena. It's two bosses but one is support and one is fighter. Demon princes were ass, they can turn both melee and spam me to the point that I can't do anything or go both range and cover half of arena with poison mist. I have no complaints about second phase but the gank part sucks hard. As do everything else. I don't care how much they "compliment each other movesets", if there's two autonomic beings on my battlefield it's automatically goes into the trash bucket. Friede's second phase I can't even call a fight, it's a beating poor defenseless Ariendel to death 😄 Abyss watchers are not gank fight either, it's a fight with a summon at base, turnabout gank fight if I can call it this way) Calling Pontiff a gank is just strange, his summon spirit dies the very moment he appears, I haven't fought two of them even once. And I don't call LoP gank fights good overall. But better then in souls. I've already said that two/three autonomic independent bosses are trash by defalt. When bosses have some sort of script that prevents them from fighting 2-3 vs 1 the whole time is what I can call bearable. But in good multiboss fights those bosses act like one and they barely can be separated from one another. Like twin princes that I've mentioned early. They're pretty easy, but concept is pretty good. And in great multiboss fights they not just act appropriately but even have combined attacks.
"don't care how much they "compliment each other movesets", if there's two autonomic beings on my battlefield it's automatically goes into the trash bucket" Thats just bizarre to me. I find it more impressive if AI that functions independent of one another ends up being actually fair and well balanced. Theres never been a bullshit moment for me when fighting Darklurker. The clone completes that fight, fills the gaps it had before Also demon prince is literally support and fighter, strange you would hate that. i dont count twin princes as a gank because its just one target, lothric is just a weakspot on his back and adds 2 attacks. Also i had a way different experience in elden ring. Only lop boss i was stuck on anywhere near or longer than an hour was laxasia. In ER that was the norm. But its not really about difficulty alone, but engagement. Those ER bosses are still fun as hell for me, even if not particularly challenging
@@magicat7356 well...then we have completely different opinions. And that's ok, truth be told. My problem with demon princes is just the fact that they can go both melee or both range. If one was always range and one was always melee and they were changing at the same time I wouldn't say a word. And argumenting my take: Elden Ring duo fights are all fall under "two autonomic bosses" category. But you know why we agreed on why are they all trash? Because bosses themselves become very bad when thrown in the same arena. For example godskin dudes are both B-tier fights when I fight them 1 on 1. But when there's two of them it becomes disgusting. The very fact that any boss becomes worse when they throw the second one prooves my point to be objectively correct. And to me it's just makes no difference with any other fight. If both bosses can do whatever they want, it's always a random factor included no matter how skillful you are. And you never can't fight two at once in the end, the proof of that is when that same demon princes go both melee I am forced to just run away until one of them turns back to range because otherwise they will just spam and stunlock me. And there's nothing I can do about it. What's the point of fighting two bosses when it always becomes trying to make the fight 1 on 1 anyway? For me it makes zero sence... And I didn't say that twin princes are gank. I said it's duo. That's the difference. And basically it's the only duo that I've enjoyed for the reason not being a gank...I would love if Elden RIng DLC won't have any gank fights and fromsoft have done a thing that they can do the best - good single fights with interesting mechanics. Multibosses are just not their prerogative. And you may ask, what I call a good duo bossfight then. Magni and Modi fight from God of War is what I can call the perfect duo boss. You always fight one of them when the second is busied with Atreus. You will never fight two of them under any circumstances. When you chop off third of health, one of them is going down until you do the same with second one. And when you do, they do the joint attack. Yes, they are not so hard, but the concept is flawless. Why fromsoft haven't made something even close to this for 15 years straight is a mystery for me...
Their next game is going to be amazing. Lies of P is already one of, if not the, best pure souls-like out there, and if Neowiz listens to fans and learns from this, their next souls-like is going to be a serious contender with even FromSoft's work.
I actually enjoy these boss fights better than lots of elden ring boss fights. I love the need to parry and how it feels. This was such a surprise! They did so good with the bosses. I love them all
Lies of P is already a serious contender to souls games lol it's better than ds2 and base ds3 imo and is almost as good as sekiro overall though ds1, bb, elden ring are a tier above
Kinda surprised door guardian wasn't ranked awful. It actually took me a while to figure out how to beat it, and most of my attempts were brought down heavily by how drawn out they were and by the instant shock on hit. Sure, he dies really easy once you figure it out, but again it's just really frustrating if you take too long to get it or just a complete pushover after you get it.
And his fury attack, where he jumps up and tries to lay down and elbow slam you. Like, where exactly during that awkward animation is the optimal parrying point? 6ft from the ground, 5ft, 3.75ft?
@@dragonlotion1789yes. That move is absolute ass to react to. I believe to avoid it I'd just keep away as far as possible if I saw it coming. As for the rest of the fight, I conditioned myself to play a lot into getting behind enemies and go for charges heavy attacks. However, against this guy, taking any hit is really dangerous because of the insta break. You also should only hit his smaller leg. I believe hitting him anywhere else doesn't contribute much to him getting knocked down if it does at all. Once I went for his leg I first tried him, however getting there really brought the experience down.
Strange how many have echoed this sentiment, I found rhe fight forgettable but inoffensive. I first tried it, guessed the weak point immediately. I just strafed the shoulder slam fury attack.
@@magicat7356 I suppose it does come down to how you got used to fight in general. I geared into a particular playstyle that threw me off of the "intended" way to fight him. Heck, I only realized you can only lock on to the body AND the smaller leg on that last attempt haha
I actually like archbishop Andreus because the deflect timings feel satisfying and it’s also a bit of an endurance fight which I found quite fun and challenging especially on base level without summons consumables/ throwable objects. Also how is door guardian not at the bottom of the list. It’s insanely easy for where it is in the game and it’s attacks are poorly designed especially the jumping fury attack and the roll which goes triple the distance it should. Shock is also the worst status ailment in the game in my opinion because you can’t do anything until it runs out otherwise you won’t be able to dodge any attacks because you’ll run out of stamina
I think they intend for you to put the blue status potions on your hot-bar. They drop constantly just by killing enemies, and the blue ones instantly stop shock and decay. I kept the blue or yellow ones on my bar all the time, depending on what area I was in.
Laxasia was my favorite boss fight, the 2nd phase reminded me of Genichiro too in which if you parry you can punish the boss woth their own attacks by deflecting them back and it feels amazing
I completely agree about the fury attacks. Visual or audio cues are needed if telegraphing is absent. The Sekiro mini-boss "Ashina Elite Jinsuke Saze" has an instantaneous attack with no telegraphing . The only difference is FromSoft added a glint to his sword right before he attacks that made it fair.
There quite literally is an audio cue for fury attacks. They also telegraph is the same as normal attacks. There is nothing different about their attack pattern
@flyingpotatoes9444 if there's an audio cue, then it's a shitty one. Because I've played through the game twice now, and I never heard it once. Some of the Fury attacks are fine, but about half of them have no telegraph. Especially the ones where the enemy/boss will hold their weapon up in the air (off camera in some cases) for an obscene delay, and then just instantly attack. I saw a video where some guy timed the frames, and it was 120ms or something ridiculous like that.
@@app6984 and as I explained to the other person, you're probably going deaf and need to see a doctor. It's genuinly the loudest sound in the game. Admittedly the sound is hard to explain, but it's like soft "vroom" but with much less emphasis on the "v" and more of a "ph" sound. I actually just tested it now in game to try and describe it to you
While I did enjoy most of the bosses a bit more than some people I can understand your criticisms of the game. I overall enjoyed the game and think it's one of the better souls likes that isn't made by from soft. One positive aspect of this game that I feel like other souls likes tend to fail at making is good enemy variety. Wo long doesn't have great variety as an example but in Lies Of P I was constantly seeing new enemies and mini bosses in almost every area and that makes enemy encounters more memorable. I'm curious how you felt about the enemy variety.
I thought enemy variety and weapon variety/customization were excellent. My only complaint there is that a lot of the Zombies blurred together, since they're all blue and gray. So visual variety with them could've been better
@@magicat7356 I can agree that the basic zombies did blend in even if there were slight differences. Usually the bigger monster or carcass enemies did at least look different. Also what's your favorite enemy visual design, both puppet and carcass type?
Thats a tough question, I generally liked all the puppet designs as well as the old timey robots. Hated fighting puppets of the future but I love their look, like a 50s movie robots. I don't really know about the blue boys, maybe the bears?
@@magicat7356 Yeah the bear in the pilgrims path jump scared me the first time so I'd say that made it kinda memorable. I guess one puppet that comes to mind for me are the ones in the Grand exhibition that look like they're made out of random parts like saws and drills. They're not difficult but I enjoyed fighting them and like how they have two sides of their body.
On the Fury Attacks, you don't necessarily have to deflect them. Outside of Scrapped Watchman and phase 2 of Green Monster, I haven't actually deflected many Fury attacks. You can often doge or sprint out of the way of Fury attacks so the hitbox doesn't make contact with you. It probably help that I've been playing in light load the whole playthrough, but I have found few if any fury attacks that I felt I could only avoid by deflecting.
@@jie8358 in phase 2 not really, he spams gap closers and combos. Never said you can’t dodge but majority of his combos you’ll LITERALLY run out of stamina dodging and then get hit because he spams infinitely.
@@bbigdoubleI just beat Laxasia, was able to avoid all her attacks without deflecting except for the lightning bolts she shoots at you. The only fury attacks I couldn't consistently avoid was the one she does after summoning all the lightning out of the sky.
For me, Victor is the best fight in the game, he does everything right for a brawler type boss. His attacks are well telegraphed, they come out in different speeds, he's surprisingly fast when he wants to be, his 2nd Phase is the only one in the game that happens at half HP and the design is amazing for Phase 2, and finally his music's just nice. It sounds like it's getting more and more hectic as Victor starts going more aggressive and animalistic to try and win, and the music emphasizes that Victor is one of the VERY FEW bosses that I will willingly fight mano-a-mano since he's very fair, but also really fun. If there was a fist weapon, I would gladly give Victor the final fight he truly deserved
@@ozozo12345I would agree that victor is near the top but man the scrapped watchman and king of puppets omeo are for sure my favorites. They’re just fun to memorize and fight
@@Manchester7_United Dont parry if you know you cant deflect, block if you can or dodge. Try being a bit more passive to practice his attacks, and the slow heavy weapons can work, but be more passive
My complaint with the fallen archbishop was you didn't need to learn the second phase, just go behind him and do the first phase again. I'm not sure how people think he's tough... King of Puppets and Laxasia are my 2 big standouts, and I really liked the design of the green swamp monster. Still overall a great soulslike and one I find myself enjoying quite a bit, especially compared to the usual soulslike.
I really like the first phase so I don't have a problem with that. I also don't think he's tough, I only died quite a few times because I had no idea how to avoid the big explosion attack. It's possibly my favorite boss in the game although a lot of that comes from its design. I still think the fight itself is pretty damn enjoyable too though.
I think he's the first standout fight. Doesn't mean he's difficult unless your Asmongold who still couldn't figure out the rolling isn't the answer lol
Are you talking pre or post nerf? It was his pre-nerf absurd health pool that gave players nightmares. Fighting him without movement enhancements is also super annoying.
The Black Rabbit Brotherhood (Part 2) did have a structure to their attacks. Contrary to what you said in the video, they absolutely did take turns attacking you. At any point, there is one sibling that’s actively pursuing you, while the other two just does occasional ranged attacks UNLESS you come and approach them, which would trigger a melee attack from them even if they’re not the current main aggressor. I honestly don’t think the fight is that bad. For me, it was an opportunity to feel how much youve improved from their first fight (since they all have more or less the same moveset, and youre supposedly have grown a lot stronger both stat and skill-wise), and feel badass that youre now able to bob and weave through all three of them at once.
Oh, didnt see that you alrdy addressed their aggro system. I’ll still leave my comment up just because tho. Also letting you know that I enjoyed the video 👍
I think it was the worst fight in the game. -It's a reused boss fight that makes hardly any changes, just some status effects and like 1 move for the big guy. -It removes emphasis from the big brother and spreads it across the other 3, except the other 3 frankly aren't very good fights on their own. They only worked in the first fight for me because you only had to fight them for short periods. -The status effects on every attack fucking sucks. Ultimately the core problem is that the fight does NOTHING better compared to the first. Even though I vastly prefer parade master 1 over the second, at least there are aspects of the second one that I could in SOME ways consider to be better than the first. Summons? Overall annoying but at least there's something to it. OP ass grab attack with an annoyingly long hit animation? Definitely dislike it but at least it changes how you have to approach him. Plus some additional changes. The decay is basically purely less fun (only difference is that you have to run away more), but at least he has redeeming qualities elsewhere. Brotherhood 2 is just a bunch of things you've done before but in a worse way. You've already fought the little guys 1v1 with a largely inactive threat in the background, except now you have to fight them for longer. You've already fought the big guy 1v1, who's the better part, except now the fight against him is shorter and never interrupted for spice. His new attack(s? not counting the stagger attack) are novel and all but don't really change how you approach him at all. Honestly, I would've maybe preferred it if they actually all just ganged up on you at once - it would've been way more frustrating but at least it would be *different* And being a strictly worse version is the absolute worst offense a repeat boss fight can commit.
What is he on about with the Rabbit Brotherhood? They clearly switch Aggro, only one will attack you actively (the one with the status effect active) while the others will stand back and throw stuff at you. They even announce it via Voicelines. Kind of a weird oversight tbh
Their ai is broken. 90% of the time they would all immediately gank me, and I don’t think I had a single attempt where no less than two were always attacking me at the same time, which sucks because their move sets are not built around each other
I would only compare a boss like Orphan of Kos to a boss like Nameless Puppet. Both move around a ton but they are both late game bosses. Archbishop should really be compared to a boss like Vicar Amelia who also just stands there and sponges your hits. There are different types of bosses across different points in the game. I consider both Vicar Amelia and Archbishop to be fine for when you encounter them in the game.
Yeah, it made no sense to compare archebishop to Gael lmao. Imagine comparing the complexity of an early game boss the last boss of an endgame dlc. Like, what? Archebishop is clearly there to get you used to perfect blocks due to how rhythmic and predictable he is.
@@RIBAYROArchbishop is too late to be a tutorial boss. Gael as a three phase fight is obviously more complex, but his second phase alone, which is the only thing I was comparing, would make for a fine early game fight. Margit and Gascoigne are definitely more complex than that
@@magicat7356too late? He's barely mid game. And aside Scrapped Watchman, I'd say you can get away with getting sloppy on other bosses until archebishop. Imo archebishop is peak at conditioning the player to rely more on blocking and even deflecting the rhythmic, predictable attack he does. Think of it as a culmination of what you definitely should have learned by that point in the game.
@@RIBAYROWhat new lesson did he teach? What established lesson did he test you on? You've already had 3 earlier bosses that do the same things. At least scrapped watchman forced you to stop relying on nothing but parrying or blocking with the lightning stuff. The robot did the same with the fire. Its only a difficulty increase due to having more health and camera issues in phase 2
I think the first Black Rabbit Brotherhood boss fight is a better gank fight than anything that Fromsoft has ever made, including Ornstein and Smough. They are my third favorite fight in the game.
This is the first video you've made where my opinion's are HUGELY different. I'd put Archbishop way higher, and I'd stick Door Guardian at the absolute bottom.
Some points I want to point out here. 1st, you can equip better defensive gears to be more resistant towards elemental effects. The merchant right before the corrupted parade boss sells like the best defensive parts for each element. 2nd, in the rematch with black rabbits, only the brother with the elemental buff is active and the rest are more passive unless you're too close to them, though they will throw projectiles at you. I quite agree with the rest. Forgettable music outside of the collectable records, cheap animations that cause you to play a guessing game instead of reacting, lack of mobility and attack combos, etc. drag the bosses down so much. For me, the King of Puppet is the best fight and the only boss that can actually be comparable to the big baddies in FromSoft's souls games. Edit: the nameless puppet is soooo close to be on the same level, but phase 2 has some flaws that I just can’t put him above the king. His animations are blurry which makes clarity for some attacks pretty much nonexistent, and his lightning dash attack, which I have to memorise instead of reacting. Not only that, I don’t like how he can just gap close over and over again with no break.
A lot of what you said in your second paragraph can be also applied to every From Souls game. SPECIALLY when it comes to the quality of the soundtrack. But that's not a discussion yall are ready to have. Tho I hate being THAT guy, I will have to be THAT guy. When people complain about "cheap animations" and stuff, they're usually simply not that good at the video game. I can't really think of a single attack like that outside of Nameless Puppet's main Fury attack where he delays the dash for a hot minute and then dashes in lightning fast speed and a few moves from some of the Stalkers minibosses. And I prefer the "lAcK of mObIliTy" the bosses in Lies of P have then the complete trash can bosses in Elden Ring who keep running away and teleporting ALL over the arena cough*cough*Elden Beast, Placidusax, Rennala, every horseback Knight miniboss etc. Lastly, most of Bosses in Lies of P have as many attacks/combos as the bosses in Bloodborne and DS3.
@@HopefulNihilist FromSoft does have some bumps here and there, but in their later works, most of the bosses are either on the level of King of Puppet or better. Most enemies in lies of P, including the bosses have cheap ass animations that comes out at lightning speed after a long delayed that you can't even see the actual attack. If you're good at guessing when those come out to block, good for you, but I want to be able to react, not playing a guessing game. This trait also makes their movements seem weightless and floaty instead of smooth and weighty like those in FromSoft's games. And of the bosses you listed, only Elden Beast is an actual problem because it covers so much space yet you can't use Torrent to even the odds. The rest are find as long as you don't play passively, which you almost never should in the later souls games anyway.
@@MaidenlessScrubI only really see that applying to Laxasia's phase 2 dive, I could never get the timing down so I opted for the talisman that lets you dodge fury attacks. Everything else was reactable to me
Would like to note that in black rabbit gang 2, their aggro actually does switch - whenever one speaks, they'll buff and then get more aggressive as the other two back off. It's still annoying though.
At this point it feels like anyone who brings up Gael as a legitimate example of good boss design just uses it as code for "I prefer to facetank the boss without learning it," and this idea gets reinforced in my head whenever this point is brought up in the same sentence as "X boss forces you to play passive/turn-based etc" There's legitimate ways to play aggressively against the bosses in this game that have nothing to do with the parry system or waiting for X combo to finish or whatever, but they don't let you steamroll them 1st try like gael does so I guess they're not fun to fight anymore? Idk, the appeal of these types of games for me is broadly speaking the difficulty and the learning curve that comes with the combat, not necessarily whether or not the boss feels "fair" on the first or second attempt
Personally for me movement wasn’t typically an issue I had with the bosses. For me King of Puppets/Laxaisa/Scrapped Watchmen and Manus are S tier. I loved everything about those fights and always felt like despite my losses was constantly learning. I do feel you on the issue with Laxasia’s weird auto combos that don’t end even if you aren’t in her way. I hope they patch that and maybe give her AI some type of variation if you aren’t in front of her like maybe have her switch to her shield bash attack. The 2 bosses you ranked as one of the worst, Black Rabbit and The Arch Bishop is literally he’s just like me fr fr the tier listing. I hated those fights and dreaded them on NG+. Thankfully at least with Bishop his HP got clapped so he’s more manageable now.
I am actually on your side. Even though i really love this game (got the plat) no boss except for Laxasia really excites me. I still like fighting most of them but they miss that polish FromSoftware made me used to. Id still recommend this game to everyone liking Souls games.
Are you referring to ER? Because I played the the DS series, and there were a lot of really low effort easy bosses, including DS1 having the same boss 3 times with very slight modifications. There were some great bosses as well, tbh, but I just think the games are a bit overhyped.
@@ThatGuy-ep7xq Yh but those were the first few souls games of the entire genre. LoP had all the FS souls games to look back on and see what they could change and add onto.
I had a whole lot of fun with the Rabbit Brotherhood Round 2. They aren't really difficult so having everyone fight you at once with no phase changing is great, specially given how some of the siblings are so easily parried.
A little thing about the second encounter with the black rabbit brotherhood, they do take turns, but have ranged attacks when not in their "turn" one of which brings you closer to them making them attack directly
Manus in top 4 bruh. And why are u refusing to use consumable that instantly remove decay? Or one that restore weapon durability. You get a lot of them through the game, so use it?
18:10 It's on rails for a reason, that's the point. It's to get you used to the patterns, to learn follow ups, to give tell the player "this will happen, then this" and allows time to drill down the moveset. That move is SO fun when parrying, imo even if it's easier to just dodge and watch her go, it's not worth giving up the fun of parrying the full chain Also the fury attack like many others is not that hard to react to, she does it after she finishes the lightning. The time from when she moves is forgiveable enough that you can still parry too early rather than too late if you click right when she begins moving. And like a lot of attacks in this game, the timing is set in stone, meaning that with experience, you don't have to rely on reaction speed at all, it's just tempo
Except the issue is that you're never encouraged to actually face the attack head on. You can certainly benefit a fair bit from parrying it, but you're better off running away and punishing the end of it instead since trying to parry it risks getting caught up and dying from full health. Plus, the issue he was stating here was the fact that she always follows the combo chain up with a specific move, not the fact that she has a long combo chain. Where for reference, the one move in question is super easy to see coming and punish even without having known for the past 20 seconds it's coming out.
@@jacobnorris8256 Parrying is heavily rewarding, more so than dodging a lot of the time. Missing a parry results in lost health that can be regained by either perfect blocks or attacking. Hitting a perfect block raises the poise break meter on the boss and contributes to breaking their weapon if that applies, not to mention any added benefit from items that give you buffs when you perfect parry. Also he said the move was super hard to dodge, I’m just saying that it’s a scheduled timing just like a lot of her other moves
@@blazex224 Yes, I know parrying is rewarding, obviously. I'm just arguing that parrying this particular attack is less rewarding than it should be relative to its danger level. Unless you're speedrunning her or something, simply running away feels like a much better option because there's no risk involved and you can still punish the end of it.
Been eager for this video! Hoping you'll do a ranking of the areas as I'm curious about your thoughts on them - I think a lot of them are on the same level as many souls areas
Love your channel, love this video, glad you made it… but you should revisit it after you played at least 3 times. My opinion on all the bosses completely changed after new game plus so I can’t imagine what it’ll be like after another play through. Not saying to delete this or anything. I think it’d be cool to look at the difference of opinions after multiple play throughs.
@@nicolasfernandeztaboada1656 yeah, the game gives you op tools like this amulet, Making NG+ runs, Speed Runs or Ergo Farming way fun and easier, I stopped at NG + 6
great video, though note that your build and consumable items actually matter in this game, if you used anti decay parts and maybe had some of those status ailment removing items, youd have an easier time, i never had any issues with status ailments because i had the right parts for the right bosses
Ok so, for Laxasia’s first fury attack in second phase, it kinda goes at the same pace as the lightning, so just assume there’s like two lightning bolts between her and just deflect accordingly. Or as soon as you see her move just slap deflect LoP’s deflects have more “end” then they have startup deflect frames, in some cases you’re better off holding the button down like with Nameless during the twin slashes.
The Corrupted Parade Master could not inflict Decay to me with a single attack. Not even the grab attack would inflict Decay. the grab would do around half the Decay bar. I did not use resistance potions or anything. Did you not have any Acid resistance gear equipped? To be fair, the game doesnt't do a good job at explaining status effects, so maybe you didn't know that Decay is the consequence of taking Acid damage.
Also, for the Brotherhood rematch fight. Only the sibling that has an active elemental buff is aggro and runs towards you. The other ones stand back and do an attack every once in a while (Spear and double swords ones throw stuff at you when not aggro, curved sword one uses puppet string). So what you have to do is just let the aggro one come to you and it's a 1v1 with two other using a range attack occasionally. There's an audio queue when the aggroed sibling changes, as well as the previous aggroed one losing their buff. And you can let 2 siblings at low HP so you kill them both quickly and get a 1v1 with the big guy. It's not an amazing fight, but I think you made it harder for yourself than it needed to be.
Yeah these are things that aren't at all obvious for a first playthrough, which I made sure to emphasize. I didn't make it harder than necessary for myself, the game just did a bad job explaining
@@magicat7356 I definitly agree with it being badly explained. But hopefully it will be more fun for you if you play it again, now that you know that. Also, maybe I came across as hostile or something, which wasn't my intention. So I just wanted to say, great video!
@@SaixgaNah you didn't come across hostile, I appreciate explaining this stuff since I genuinely didn't know it. These are just my gut feelings on first playthrough, with analysis on stuff I observed. So I just wanted to re emphasize that there's stuff I won't know the first time. This information would change a lot for a usual ranking I do where I rank them after countless replays. But i wanted to make a first impressions ranking, so obviously stuff that's poorly explained may end up going over my head. Glad you enjoyed tho!
@@magicat7356 It does tho, doesn't it? If someone claims a moveset is very predictable yet proceeds to repeatdily get hit by it, then that necessitates one of the following to be truth: Either A, the moveset is in fact NOT that predictable or B, you're bad at the game. Both are damning in different ways.
@@HopefulNihilistThat's stupid. You can find something predictable, obvious but still occasionally fuck it up. I didn't get hit by every attack either lol. By predictable I mean for example he has a slow 3 hit combo. You see the first attack, you know what's coming. It's a dull predictable combo even if you sometimes get hit by it. Doesn't mean it's suddenly complex.
While I wouldn't put Nameless Puppet before KoP or Laxasia, I agree with you that, especially after Manus, it feels like a comeback to the "right" kind of parry-based flow. Instead of having to deal with memorising the timing of frustratingly delayed attacks, you're tasked, in full Sekiro fashion, with learning to parse its moveset. It's a type of challenge that feels significantly more enjoyable, while requiring just as much attention and analysis. PS: I personally adore the Nameless Puppet OST. It may not be very bombastic, but those subdued dissonant violins (very Bloodborn-esque) are the perfect musical carpeting to Geppetto talking to you in the background.
I really like Andreus. For one, the design of his mask and face employ two of my favorite character design tropes, namely a mask that looks like a face and a gaping hole where a face should be. The buildup to his fight is also pretty well done, especially seeing his centipede half slink down into the hole in the floor of the church, and the introduction of carcass-type enemies at the beginning of the level leaves you wondering just what the carcasses are and makes his reveal all the more horrific. Admittedly, phase 1 isn’t the best, but I really enjoyed fighting his centipede half and deflecting the swings from his staff during phase 2. I really liked the phase transition cutscene, dialogue during phase 2, and especially his OST
Overall the game is really good and I agree with a lot of points you made. My only gripe with this game was there was like two or three bosses that were cheap and you’re gonna have to play a couple of times to beat them. I did not use specters at all. (I hate losing and restarting any fight, I am a very skilled gamer and somebody on my level should not lose if they do it’s a bad game design)
Victor is my favorite boss simply for the voice acting at the starting cutscene 😂😂 “WELCOME…TO MY RING” the voice acting made him sound like a hulking brute that was mentally throwed off
This is the second video that I've seen with boss ranking and I agree with a lot of choices with both videos but i find the first Black Rabbit fight to be really enjoyable (Honestly my favorite fight from the whole game) Big Brother i find fair to fight as a one Vs one and then his siblings arent too bad to take down to make it a one on one again, because Big brother plays more passively when at a distance with his rush attack being the easiest fury attack in my opinion to parry in the entire game, plus the siblings only come down every 1/4 of his health to give the best time to run and take the brothers out
To get Decay on one hit from corrupted parade puppet tells me you had basically little to no protection against special attributes. Even with that, why not use the cleanse potion? He definitely wasn't the best boss but your complaints honestly sound more like an issue with your playstyle. There were multiple ways to fix that Decay issue.
I feel like I must have had some weird experience with the second black rabbit brother hood fight. I think I would put it in one of my top 5 fights of the game (like, the 5th one mind you, but still there). They came at me 1 at a time unless I was intentionally walking into multiple at the same time. You could tell which one was gonna chase you by which one weapon buffed. When the other brothers threw something, there were audio queues. I think my favorite part was the atmosphere. Individually they were fodder, which just made me feel like I was kicking the shit out of kids whose parental “big brother” I killed. Then even when the big brother comes back he is a fraction of himself. It was a sobering boss fight in the pile of monsters and robots.
Yeah, the brotherhood DO come at you one at a time, with the others actually using a ranged attack. It took me a while to realise this, and I was trying to focus down one and got frustrated when another would attack me, but the fight clicks when you realise the buffs tell you which you should be fighting.
I do also feel like the devs kind of play it cheap when it comes to "surprise" phase 2s. In most games, if the 1st phase has you deplete a boss' hp bar, then that means theyve died and are reborn in some way or someone else takes over and acts as phase 2, etc. Otherwise, phase 2 should start at a certain threshold, usually half hp. Gutting a boss' hp bar only to fade into a cutscene and another full hp bar is just demoralizing. Granted this is a pretty arbitrary point but it just felt a little cheap to me. Though they did actually do a half hp phase transition on victor so idk why they didnt do it for the likes of alaxia, green monster, or others who transform instead of dying
@@omegazx7236 But any time the hp bar is completely depleted, that means that boss is dead, such as in the case of something like Radagon, of course, but also like rennala and malenia, "blade of miquella" i believe she calls herself. She dies and is reborn, whereas everyone else like godfrey, godrick, or radahn for instance aren't yet dead so their transition occurs mid hp. Yes, this is of course an arbitrary argument but it was just something small that got a lil annoying for me the more it happened in lies of p
I'd say most of the bosses are generally good, minus a few crappy ones. I don't feel like most of the bosses in this game have an issue with mobility. Archbishop is literally a giant blob. It makes sense that he wouldn't move around much.
my strat for getting the heavy hit on laxasia is just bring in shot puts. to my knowledge its the only throwable that can trigger the stagger. makes struggling to charge a heavy just thrown out the window and lets u focus on lights and parries cause charged heavies in that fight are a death sentence. also give u morew space to dodge her bs stagger attack
Man I agree so much with champion Viktor's phase 2. All his moves are consistently fun to fight around, his voiceover is funny, he's thematically fantastically executed, but his phase 2 just doesn't do anything at all. Still fun to fight, i'm not complaining about fighting his fun phase 1 again, but it really hurts his overall impact and memorability. Even *besides* the lack of notable differences between the phases, I really wish it was, y'know, harder? You spend some time mastering his phase 1 which has a fantastic difficulty level, reach a point where you can consistently reach phase 2 and then... that's it? Once you have phase 1 down you pretty much have phase 2 down as well and thus he ends up feeling really easy after a while. Also mostly agree on Andreus. I don't really know why people like him so much. You stand still and learn deflect timings for the same small and fairly boring moveset, reach phase 2, walk around him and then do the same thing for another healthbar. You CAN choose to sabotage yourself by fighting the tentacle in the second phase for variety, but it's ultimately a really badly executed mechanic that encourages you to never do that. I think people like his design a lot but tbh his backside/phase 1 design feels too goofy to me and kind of ruins what they seem to be going for. I wouldn't call it *bad* at all, but still firmly mediocre. Also also agree with Simon Manus' design. Worst part is I would've LOVED that design if he WASN'T the main antagonist of the game. Fucking humpty dumpty rolling around with a huge technohammer? That sounds super fun. But it really undermines him as a main villain.
Personnally i like Andreus quite a lot. I totally agree that phase 2 is counter-intuitive and that's why he never reach the top for me. But I absolutelly love the tempo of his monster side's moveset. He's the first boss that forced me to get good or quit, because his moveset is simple but very punishing, and force you to not be greedy and it felt so good. And obviously design, lore and OST (Wing of Hypocrisy go brrrr)
I agree almost entirely with the placement of these bosses, but disagree with the later half not being put as great or amazing tier. Other than that, good video. The DLC will probably have some much better bosses too
Every enemy that has a strong red glowing attack has like the same timing to it, so when reaching the endgame, parrying these attacks are not really a problem anymore, just more punishing if you fail at it. For example, in Laxasias Boss Fight at the beginning of the 2nd phase after she throws numerous thunderbolts at you, she adds a heavy attack in which she flies towards you, smashing the ground. I am in my third playthrough and I cannot remember ever being hit by that attack, because even if there are next to no frames for you to react, the timing of the attack is pretty easy to see coming, so, thats a skill issue.
I agree about music not fitting the 2nd black jobber brotherhood fight, but for a different reason. It is clear devs kinda wanted them to be memorable characters, these four represent death in the original source material(hence the coffin), the main trailer ends with showing off these 4 characters, and there was generally many focus around them during marketing. This is probably why they chose epic theme song for the boss fight. But in the actual storytelling department, they kinda do nothing...? So it feels off and does not meet the player's expectations. Maybe after the 1st encounter and killing the eldest, one of the rabbits could have periodically "invaded" player's playthrough to keep players engaged with their "revenge" subplot. Hell, make it an online feature and let player's gank each other as one of the rabbits. I for sure thought they were going to pull something like this after seeing one of them pulling off parkour tricks in Elysian boulevard, just after your first visit to hotel. A stand-in for the invade mechanic players encounter periodically. But sadly that wasn't the case.
Hello Magicat! I really enjoy your videos! But remember when you once asked for good cuphead chalenges? Well why dont you try enchanted portals? Its not good but funny but for actual chalange whetstoning every boss and you Can make this a sieries. But still great video!
ngl i really dislike how you constantly compare someone's first game to other games that are and have been deemed masterpieces with experience in the game field as well. as i expected, laxasia and nameless puppet are on the top which they are good fights, but i don't really agree with your reasonings as it lowkey just gives souls elitest vibes. not EVERY boss needs to be incredibly flashy, mobile, and bouncing around the room. they keep a good sense of variety with these bosses that i love alot more than the other souls games. like the archibold, his fight is to build up your sense of parrying/endurance.
It would have been nice to see the Rabbit Brotherhood fights be choreographed better, like attacks that come in waves in some semi-random but manageable sequence actually would have made the fight fun.
Laxasia fight is a bait and switch. They made phase one to fool you into thinking its gonna be slow but hard hitting boss, So you better not mess up. Then they switch it up and gives the boss crack and it goes into 5th gear. The King of puppets is more or less the same.
Finally ended up playing it. Have to admit even tho Laxasia was pure pain it's my favourite fight i hate in any soulslike. That music from phase 2 to me was actually the only memorable song, the first one in the game where i was like: HOT DIGGITY DAYUM ITS GETTING REAL and died to the first dive after the lightning bolts.
I'm actually extremely split on the Brotherhood fight - I really enjoyed the first one, but the second one is, imo, the worst fight in the game by quite a large marging. The reason why first one is fun is because you will most likely alter between fighting the main boss and then dealing with ads. So, you make some progress with the main fight, then take a break to fight an npc and so on. This gives the fight nice pacing and makes it very engaging. On the second fight, though, you first have to deal with the annoying adds (that btw got way more annoying due to status effects), which is EXTREMELY slow and then you have to face the big brother and learn his moveset, knowing that failing means that you will have to repeat the 1st phase. This was the one fight I actually summoned for, it didn't even seem all that hard, but after a few tries I decided that I just can't take the tedium
There's an element of good ideas, but like I said, I felt they were like a dungeon boss in an mmo, which would make sense since they've ported an mmo before and have experience with that.
Damn you were really not invested in the story or what? 4 kids ruling a large portion of an apocalyptic world, mainly cause of their eldest brother. You come along and kill him. Battle Maniac walks away with revenge which they take by going all out on you (yet with alternating aggros just like the first fight) nd by reviving and buffing their brother with the same shit that turned humans to carcasses and manus to hand of god. I was just frothing at the mouth to the rematch i couldn't wait. Obviously if you never slowed down to notice that one of them shouts a voiceline and buffs their weapom before going apeshit at you, and you keep trying to figut the inactive brothers. It'll feel like a bs gank fight but is that really the game's fault? I see neither bad design nor a simple "dungeon boss". These were more developed characters than Simon
No I wasn't invested in the story, and story doesn't really make a boss fight from bad to good. They had annoying voices so I just wanted them to piss off
@@magicat7356 Voicelines don't make a good boss bad either huh. Specially when those are literally a telegraph for aggro in the fight. To each their own i guess. Comments have flamed you enough I don't need to further
Mad clown puppet, door gardian, and walker of illusions are actually mini-bosses i think its pretty cool how some mini-bosses are required to move on it sets it apart from other souls like games plus not many people know but all stalker bosses except for black rabbit brotherhood are mini bosses
@@magicat7356 Thanks anyway. I get where that's probably not your thing. Before whiny babies start commenting a sh*tstorm, please don't play the Enchanted Portals game, it will mainly just be a flaccid waste of your time. It's more like a Flash game based on Cuphead and it's not worth wasting time on.
I feel you would of had a better time if you used a fast weapon. That gives you time to perfect guard, hit, and have time to get the next guard off witch takes away the turn based combat you get from heavy weapons. Kinda like bloodborne
In terms of late game boss fights (based on how far I am at the moment), Laxasia is my favorite. It's not a stupid gank fight or gimmick fight. It's just a solid fight to the death between 2 warriors.
Instead of guessing those timings for a lot of attacks when fighting the bosses, I blocked quite a lot until I memorized them. Because of the regain mechanic I could recover most of the damage I took. I think complaining about something when the game offers the solution is kinda on you if you ignore it. And you are obviously supposed to parry all of Laxasias long combos in phase one. Thats why they are always the same, so you can learn the rythm.
@@magicat7356 Fury attacks typically only do 1/3 of your health in my experience, and also if parried give a ton of your rallied hp back. This game is defo built around parrying, and if you use the guard regain mechanic to it's fullest it's far more forgiving than most people think it is. And besides, fury attacks are usually at the end of combos or are just kinda random things they throw out, if you don't want to risk if if you're both at low health or somth, just run around them ds 1 style.
Alright lets be honest here this video is going to receive a lot of unecessery hate but what about instead of writing a hate comment why dont you try to understand that your opinion may vary from his and try to be respectfull instead?
"The combat mechanics aren't that good." He should explain what he meant. Like does he just not like it because he can't just dodge and attack at the right time like in fromsofts souls games?
I partially disagree on your point about fury attacks. Yes, some of them you are only able to parry by memorizing, but I think the overall point of them was to make you play smarter, not harder. So in your Simon example, it's quite difficult to parry, but you can also be smarter and just circle strafe to your right through the whole move and you'll never get hit. Not only that but you end up behind Simon when he lands, giving an opportunity for big damage. I think I lot of players focus too much on just blocking / parrying and forget that sometimes dodging or moving/running are useful defensive tools as well.
Personally I would like to see you play the game again and make the list again. I have beaten P 4 times and I think a lot of these listings are definitely as you said in the beginning more of a first impressions list than a ranking of mechanics and combat
I personally love most of the bosses I have face, but I do have a large problem with most of the deflect timings on things. Honestly, some small changes to that and I would honestly say that most bosses here are great.
Thumbs up for a great video! I didn't think the boss themes were that memorable, either. All the gems were from the vinyls. But then, I hardly remember any of the Fromsoft boss themes, because they all blend into one hodgepodge of epic Latin choir at some point. King of Puppet-Romeo theme in LoP is the Godskin theme of ER for me, and the rest... are just there. As for Victor's 2nd phase, it was supposed to be the Malenia of LoP with hyper mobility and picture perfect timing requirements. But they had to scale it back after the feedback from the Focused Group Test by the genre veterans. Remember, these are the same people who thought Romeo was totally fine. Alas, Victor ended up being one of the easiest bosses from being one of the hardest in the game. But I would like to share my two cents on the boss mobility, which I believe stems from mainly 3 factors. 1. The fact that you have 2 primary defensive option, instead of just one you often rely on in Fromsoft games. While you can absolutely beat the game with just the parry, or the dodge, or even guard-and-regain method, it is clear as day that the game wants you to mix up the parry and the dodge at the right moment. Push backs, string attacks, tracking, recover animations all dictate your decision to hold your ground, or just move out of the way. And I think the reason why so many of the bosses seem rather tame in their mobility is to offer a clear indication as to which defensive option is viable for the upcoming attack. When bosses fly around every corner of the arena hitting you from all directions, it truly becomes a muscle memory, or you just resort to one method you are more comfortable with: You either spam dodge, or frantically tap on guard hoping you pull off some parries to gain your health back. 2. The tracking in LoP is other worldly, to the point where even if the enemy moved behind you mid-combo, your second swing of charged heavy attack almost always tracks. The repositioning of an enemy is only truly meaningful, if it makes you whiff, or releases the lock-on, so you have to manually reacquire. I do not believe either happens that much, if at all. 3. This being their first game is of course, the biggest culprit. They did not know how people would react and adapt to the new frankenstein of ideas they had put out. The existence of Laxasia and the Green Monster clearly shows us that they are capable of making flashy, mobile bosses, but mechanically the game does not back up hyper mobile enemies, so they might have thought 'why bother, if it is all just for spectacles and does not bring any new challenges to the table?'. Or it was simply that they did not want to exhaust the player even more than they were already doing. We can only guess. Round8 does not have one and a half decade of experience to delicately balance the mechanical challenge and the perceived difficulty. Some of the nigh unreactable, poorly telegraphed fury attacks exhibit their lack of experience with the designing of this type of combat. All the more reason to look forward to their future projects, because despite all of its shortcomings, this is already the best non-Fromsoft soulsgame right after Nioh2 for me.
king of puppets is easily the best boss of the game for me, peak design and peak introduction for BOTH phase, and romeo's theme is by far my favorite ost of the game.
Late update to this video but I figured after having replayed the game I should do it anyway. I think I made a mistake in playing the game only once before making this video, which I normally don't do. I redid each fight without using healing items and in some cases without taking any damage and I think I have a much better grasp on the bosses now.
Corrupted Parade Master is kind of a joke now, and even if I did get hit by him, there are plenty of status ailment resistance gear that the decay isn't a huge deal. I would say it's still a mediocre fight, but not bad. I was SORTA wrong about the Black Rabbit Brotherhood not taking turns in their second encounter. They do take turns in being more aggressive. Buffed weapon = more aggressive. But the others do still throw projectiles at you and can gank you in a bullshit way, so I think the fight still sucks. I also don't know if they've made changes to Romeo's moveset but damn did I enjoy it a lot more the second time around, I think it's an amazing tier fight and the best in the game. Fuoco I'd move a tier down, Andreus half a tier up (bad tier is a bit harsh) and Simon Manus a tier down. Other than that, spots remain the same. So I still feel a little mixed on the game's bosses, I do feel they're too simple beyond just memorizing the timing of the weird delays. Again, good game overall.
I think there's nothing wrong with memorizing attack timing. You've literally put nameless puppet of all the bosses in 1 place. This dude has more delayed sonic-speed moves then any of other bosses. I don't know where that "all attacks should be telegraphed" kind of mindset is going from. DS3 had very telegraphed attacks. And this game becomes boring as hell after first playthrough. Because every boss can be defeated by pure reflexes and 0 moveset learning. Boss design like this is one and done thing, there's no learning potential. And as outcome - no interest in refighting them. When bosses like Romeo, Laxasia, nameless puppet and swamp monster give you different experience each playthrough (for example I didn't like swamp monster at all, but 2 playthroughs later I got to understand him, or Laxasia that I want to fight again and again because parrying and deflecting her moves like a damn jedi is so satisfying to do). And let's be honest. This game has better gank fights then any souls game ever had. Each and everyone of fromsoft duo/trio bosses are just 3 autonomic bosses that do whatever bullshit they want, this game at least has a script for them not attacking you all at once. After Elden Ring's horrible gank fights this really feels like a breath of fresh air.
@@Sargatas It is a preference thing. If that's your thing, no problem. But I prefer bosses that on the surface have movesets that don't require you to just memorize every attack's weird delay, but have emphasis on correct positioning, learning the combo extensions and mix ups, and other more subtle things you have to keep in mind even once you've fully learned them. I don't mind some trial and error, but when that's the entire moveset and there's nothing besides the memorization, it becomes boring once you learn it. I learned Andreus and Fuoco to the point I did them no damage but now it's just even more boring because I know exactly what I'm getting when I start the fight. Just remember the timing and it's done. In Elden Ring there are huge delays but they typically have a clear enough tell when that quick release is coming. Yet, you'll still have to learn things like, where should you position yourself when fighting Hoarah Loux or Mohg? Or where should you dodge when fighting Morgott or Malenia? (She is definitely the most trial and error boss in ER though and thats why I initially didnt like it, but at least there is a super complex, engaging moveset once youve learned all the moves). Romeo is one of the rare instances of having combo mix ups and great mobility, so he remains fun to me.
As for ganks, yeah Elden Ring ganks are ass. But LoP ganks (all two of them) being better than any Souls game? Yeah, hard disagree. Ornstein and Smough, Darklurker, both better than both of the rabbit fights combined and then tripled in quality, not to mention DS3 with Abyss Watchers, Pontiff, Friede and Ariandel, Demon Prince. The rabbits aren't good as GANKS, they don't flow well together. They're only passable when other targets are being passive. There are times you'll get hit by off screen projectiles fighting the second encounter, and that's just bullshit imo.
@t7356 I beat Hoarah Loux 4 try, Morgott and Mogh both fell 2 try without shackles and crystal tear. Because they have pretty low hp, low resists and spend too much time in scripted animations while I smack them with a sword for free. I haven't even tried to memorize their movesets until NG+6 where they have enough HP to endure (Morgott can't even on NG+7 btw, he would be much better of a boss if he could use his moveset, he has a very good and diversive one). Malenia has literally one hard-to-dodge attack. Out of my 2 hours on her 1,5 of them were spent just to adapt to waterfowl dance. The rest of her moveset is very convenient and easy to dodge (but this can be because I got used to play very fast-paced games and Malenia is the only boss that I considered at least bearable in terms of speed, but still slow).
In souls games there's only one good duo boss. Twin princes. Because it's not two autonomic bosses thrown at the same arena. It's two bosses but one is support and one is fighter. Demon princes were ass, they can turn both melee and spam me to the point that I can't do anything or go both range and cover half of arena with poison mist. I have no complaints about second phase but the gank part sucks hard. As do everything else. I don't care how much they "compliment each other movesets", if there's two autonomic beings on my battlefield it's automatically goes into the trash bucket. Friede's second phase I can't even call a fight, it's a beating poor defenseless Ariendel to death 😄 Abyss watchers are not gank fight either, it's a fight with a summon at base, turnabout gank fight if I can call it this way) Calling Pontiff a gank is just strange, his summon spirit dies the very moment he appears, I haven't fought two of them even once.
And I don't call LoP gank fights good overall. But better then in souls. I've already said that two/three autonomic independent bosses are trash by defalt. When bosses have some sort of script that prevents them from fighting 2-3 vs 1 the whole time is what I can call bearable. But in good multiboss fights those bosses act like one and they barely can be separated from one another. Like twin princes that I've mentioned early. They're pretty easy, but concept is pretty good. And in great multiboss fights they not just act appropriately but even have combined attacks.
"don't care how much they "compliment each other movesets", if there's two autonomic beings on my battlefield it's automatically goes into the trash bucket" Thats just bizarre to me. I find it more impressive if AI that functions independent of one another ends up being actually fair and well balanced. Theres never been a bullshit moment for me when fighting Darklurker. The clone completes that fight, fills the gaps it had before Also demon prince is literally support and fighter, strange you would hate that. i dont count twin princes as a gank because its just one target, lothric is just a weakspot on his back and adds 2 attacks.
Also i had a way different experience in elden ring. Only lop boss i was stuck on anywhere near or longer than an hour was laxasia. In ER that was the norm. But its not really about difficulty alone, but engagement. Those ER bosses are still fun as hell for me, even if not particularly challenging
@@magicat7356 well...then we have completely different opinions. And that's ok, truth be told. My problem with demon princes is just the fact that they can go both melee or both range. If one was always range and one was always melee and they were changing at the same time I wouldn't say a word.
And argumenting my take: Elden Ring duo fights are all fall under "two autonomic bosses" category. But you know why we agreed on why are they all trash? Because bosses themselves become very bad when thrown in the same arena. For example godskin dudes are both B-tier fights when I fight them 1 on 1. But when there's two of them it becomes disgusting. The very fact that any boss becomes worse when they throw the second one prooves my point to be objectively correct. And to me it's just makes no difference with any other fight. If both bosses can do whatever they want, it's always a random factor included no matter how skillful you are. And you never can't fight two at once in the end, the proof of that is when that same demon princes go both melee I am forced to just run away until one of them turns back to range because otherwise they will just spam and stunlock me. And there's nothing I can do about it. What's the point of fighting two bosses when it always becomes trying to make the fight 1 on 1 anyway? For me it makes zero sence...
And I didn't say that twin princes are gank. I said it's duo. That's the difference. And basically it's the only duo that I've enjoyed for the reason not being a gank...I would love if Elden RIng DLC won't have any gank fights and fromsoft have done a thing that they can do the best - good single fights with interesting mechanics. Multibosses are just not their prerogative.
And you may ask, what I call a good duo bossfight then. Magni and Modi fight from God of War is what I can call the perfect duo boss. You always fight one of them when the second is busied with Atreus. You will never fight two of them under any circumstances. When you chop off third of health, one of them is going down until you do the same with second one. And when you do, they do the joint attack. Yes, they are not so hard, but the concept is flawless. Why fromsoft haven't made something even close to this for 15 years straight is a mystery for me...
Their next game is going to be amazing. Lies of P is already one of, if not the, best pure souls-like out there, and if Neowiz listens to fans and learns from this, their next souls-like is going to be a serious contender with even FromSoft's work.
we need a full blown sekiro-like from these guys
Judging by the post credit scene, I assume they're teasing a potential spin off game based on the Wizard of Oz.
I’m very hopeful that the next game will be a reimagining of The Wizard of Oz set in the same universe because of the ending teaser.
I actually enjoy these boss fights better than lots of elden ring boss fights. I love the need to parry and how it feels. This was such a surprise! They did so good with the bosses. I love them all
Lies of P is already a serious contender to souls games lol it's better than ds2 and base ds3 imo and is almost as good as sekiro overall though ds1, bb, elden ring are a tier above
Kinda surprised door guardian wasn't ranked awful. It actually took me a while to figure out how to beat it, and most of my attempts were brought down heavily by how drawn out they were and by the instant shock on hit. Sure, he dies really easy once you figure it out, but again it's just really frustrating if you take too long to get it or just a complete pushover after you get it.
And his fury attack, where he jumps up and tries to lay down and elbow slam you.
Like, where exactly during that awkward animation is the optimal parrying point? 6ft from the ground, 5ft, 3.75ft?
@@dragonlotion1789yes. That move is absolute ass to react to. I believe to avoid it I'd just keep away as far as possible if I saw it coming.
As for the rest of the fight, I conditioned myself to play a lot into getting behind enemies and go for charges heavy attacks. However, against this guy, taking any hit is really dangerous because of the insta break. You also should only hit his smaller leg. I believe hitting him anywhere else doesn't contribute much to him getting knocked down if it does at all. Once I went for his leg I first tried him, however getting there really brought the experience down.
@@RIBAYRO yeah, I don’t see this guy getting much attention but he’s deceptively more annoying that he should be.
Strange how many have echoed this sentiment, I found rhe fight forgettable but inoffensive. I first tried it, guessed the weak point immediately. I just strafed the shoulder slam fury attack.
@@magicat7356 I suppose it does come down to how you got used to fight in general. I geared into a particular playstyle that threw me off of the "intended" way to fight him. Heck, I only realized you can only lock on to the body AND the smaller leg on that last attempt haha
I actually like archbishop Andreus because the deflect timings feel satisfying and it’s also a bit of an endurance fight which I found quite fun and challenging especially on base level without summons consumables/ throwable objects.
Also how is door guardian not at the bottom of the list. It’s insanely easy for where it is in the game and it’s attacks are poorly designed especially the jumping fury attack and the roll which goes triple the distance it should. Shock is also the worst status ailment in the game in my opinion because you can’t do anything until it runs out otherwise you won’t be able to dodge any attacks because you’ll run out of stamina
I think they intend for you to put the blue status potions on your hot-bar. They drop constantly just by killing enemies, and the blue ones instantly stop shock and decay. I kept the blue or yellow ones on my bar all the time, depending on what area I was in.
Only thing i didnt like about archbishop was that it was too much like Aldritch from DS in design
Laxasia was my favorite boss fight, the 2nd phase reminded me of Genichiro too in which if you parry you can punish the boss woth their own attacks by deflecting them back and it feels amazing
Phase 1 Laxasia reminded me of the Abyss Watchers phase 2, and Phase 2 Laxasia reminded me of Melania minus the bullshit health regen.
No boss has ever pissed me off let alone pissed me off as much as she did, I fucking hate her with a passion. Still haven't beaten her 2nd phase
I completely agree about the fury attacks. Visual or audio cues are needed if telegraphing is absent. The Sekiro mini-boss "Ashina Elite Jinsuke Saze" has an instantaneous attack with no telegraphing . The only difference is FromSoft added a glint to his sword right before he attacks that made it fair.
There quite literally is an audio cue for fury attacks. They also telegraph is the same as normal attacks. There is nothing different about their attack pattern
@flyingpotatoes9444 if there's an audio cue, then it's a shitty one. Because I've played through the game twice now, and I never heard it once. Some of the Fury attacks are fine, but about half of them have no telegraph. Especially the ones where the enemy/boss will hold their weapon up in the air (off camera in some cases) for an obscene delay, and then just instantly attack. I saw a video where some guy timed the frames, and it was 120ms or something ridiculous like that.
@@YeOldeMachina maybe you need to go to an otolaryngologist. I can hear them perfectly well and the telegraphing is extremely easy to track
@@flyingpotatoes9444can't hear it either. Game problem not mine.
@@app6984 and as I explained to the other person, you're probably going deaf and need to see a doctor. It's genuinly the loudest sound in the game. Admittedly the sound is hard to explain, but it's like soft "vroom" but with much less emphasis on the "v" and more of a "ph" sound. I actually just tested it now in game to try and describe it to you
While I did enjoy most of the bosses a bit more than some people I can understand your criticisms of the game. I overall enjoyed the game and think it's one of the better souls likes that isn't made by from soft.
One positive aspect of this game that I feel like other souls likes tend to fail at making is good enemy variety. Wo long doesn't have great variety as an example but in Lies Of P I was constantly seeing new enemies and mini bosses in almost every area and that makes enemy encounters more memorable. I'm curious how you felt about the enemy variety.
I thought enemy variety and weapon variety/customization were excellent. My only complaint there is that a lot of the Zombies blurred together, since they're all blue and gray. So visual variety with them could've been better
@@magicat7356 I can agree that the basic zombies did blend in even if there were slight differences. Usually the bigger monster or carcass enemies did at least look different. Also what's your favorite enemy visual design, both puppet and carcass type?
Thats a tough question, I generally liked all the puppet designs as well as the old timey robots. Hated fighting puppets of the future but I love their look, like a 50s movie robots. I don't really know about the blue boys, maybe the bears?
@@magicat7356 Yeah the bear in the pilgrims path jump scared me the first time so I'd say that made it kinda memorable. I guess one puppet that comes to mind for me are the ones in the Grand exhibition that look like they're made out of random parts like saws and drills. They're not difficult but I enjoyed fighting them and like how they have two sides of their body.
On the Fury Attacks, you don't necessarily have to deflect them. Outside of Scrapped Watchman and phase 2 of Green Monster, I haven't actually deflected many Fury attacks. You can often doge or sprint out of the way of Fury attacks so the hitbox doesn't make contact with you. It probably help that I've been playing in light load the whole playthrough, but I have found few if any fury attacks that I felt I could only avoid by deflecting.
Wait until you fight Nameless Puppet 90% of his attacks can only be guarded to avoid dmg. Same with Laxasia
yeah with proper strafing and everything you can dodge and run from those attacks
@@jie8358 in phase 2 not really, he spams gap closers and combos. Never said you can’t dodge but majority of his combos you’ll LITERALLY run out of stamina dodging and then get hit because he spams infinitely.
@@bbigdouble i did you just got be quick and know the boss but you can dodge the furry attacks without that amulet
@@bbigdoubleI just beat Laxasia, was able to avoid all her attacks without deflecting except for the lightning bolts she shoots at you. The only fury attacks I couldn't consistently avoid was the one she does after summoning all the lightning out of the sky.
Best non From Soft 3D souls like I’ve played. Loved most of the bosses.
For me, Victor is the best fight in the game, he does everything right for a brawler type boss. His attacks are well telegraphed, they come out in different speeds, he's surprisingly fast when he wants to be, his 2nd Phase is the only one in the game that happens at half HP and the design is amazing for Phase 2, and finally his music's just nice. It sounds like it's getting more and more hectic as Victor starts going more aggressive and animalistic to try and win, and the music emphasizes that
Victor is one of the VERY FEW bosses that I will willingly fight mano-a-mano since he's very fair, but also really fun. If there was a fist weapon, I would gladly give Victor the final fight he truly deserved
Parade Master, Scrapped Watchman, King's Flame Fuoco all have a second phase at half health. There might be more idk
@@emporioalnino4670 Probably could've edited it to fix it, but I meant with a cutscene included
@@ozozo12345I would agree that victor is near the top but man the scrapped watchman and king of puppets
omeo are for sure my favorites. They’re just fun to memorize and fight
Im lowkey pretty bad at the game and got stuck at champion victor. Any tips?
@@Manchester7_United Dont parry if you know you cant deflect, block if you can or dodge. Try being a bit more passive to practice his attacks, and the slow heavy weapons can work, but be more passive
My complaint with the fallen archbishop was you didn't need to learn the second phase, just go behind him and do the first phase again. I'm not sure how people think he's tough... King of Puppets and Laxasia are my 2 big standouts, and I really liked the design of the green swamp monster. Still overall a great soulslike and one I find myself enjoying quite a bit, especially compared to the usual soulslike.
I really like the first phase so I don't have a problem with that. I also don't think he's tough, I only died quite a few times because I had no idea how to avoid the big explosion attack. It's possibly my favorite boss in the game although a lot of that comes from its design. I still think the fight itself is pretty damn enjoyable too though.
@@Eo-ms3kw very visually stunning. Just fought him again on ng+ and he's still a fun fight.
I think he's the first standout fight. Doesn't mean he's difficult unless your Asmongold who still couldn't figure out the rolling isn't the answer lol
Are you talking pre or post nerf? It was his pre-nerf absurd health pool that gave players nightmares. Fighting him without movement enhancements is also super annoying.
his big f u blast can be trouble if you dont know what to do with it
The Black Rabbit Brotherhood (Part 2) did have a structure to their attacks. Contrary to what you said in the video, they absolutely did take turns attacking you. At any point, there is one sibling that’s actively pursuing you, while the other two just does occasional ranged attacks UNLESS you come and approach them, which would trigger a melee attack from them even if they’re not the current main aggressor.
I honestly don’t think the fight is that bad. For me, it was an opportunity to feel how much youve improved from their first fight (since they all have more or less the same moveset, and youre supposedly have grown a lot stronger both stat and skill-wise), and feel badass that youre now able to bob and weave through all three of them at once.
Oh, didnt see that you alrdy addressed their aggro system. I’ll still leave my comment up just because tho. Also letting you know that I enjoyed the video 👍
I think it was the worst fight in the game.
-It's a reused boss fight that makes hardly any changes, just some status effects and like 1 move for the big guy.
-It removes emphasis from the big brother and spreads it across the other 3, except the other 3 frankly aren't very good fights on their own. They only worked in the first fight for me because you only had to fight them for short periods.
-The status effects on every attack fucking sucks.
Ultimately the core problem is that the fight does NOTHING better compared to the first. Even though I vastly prefer parade master 1 over the second, at least there are aspects of the second one that I could in SOME ways consider to be better than the first. Summons? Overall annoying but at least there's something to it. OP ass grab attack with an annoyingly long hit animation? Definitely dislike it but at least it changes how you have to approach him. Plus some additional changes. The decay is basically purely less fun (only difference is that you have to run away more), but at least he has redeeming qualities elsewhere.
Brotherhood 2 is just a bunch of things you've done before but in a worse way. You've already fought the little guys 1v1 with a largely inactive threat in the background, except now you have to fight them for longer. You've already fought the big guy 1v1, who's the better part, except now the fight against him is shorter and never interrupted for spice. His new attack(s? not counting the stagger attack) are novel and all but don't really change how you approach him at all. Honestly, I would've maybe preferred it if they actually all just ganged up on you at once - it would've been way more frustrating but at least it would be *different*
And being a strictly worse version is the absolute worst offense a repeat boss fight can commit.
What is he on about with the Rabbit Brotherhood?
They clearly switch Aggro, only one will attack you actively (the one with the status effect active) while the others will stand back and throw stuff at you.
They even announce it via Voicelines. Kind of a weird oversight tbh
yeah, I think he just went into them all the time
Sometimes in the beginning of the fight 2 or all of the brotherhood can apply status affect to their weapons
Idk tbh I think most of this list is filled with strange or outright bad takes. Black rabbit brotherhood definitely switch aggro.
Their ai is broken. 90% of the time they would all immediately gank me, and I don’t think I had a single attempt where no less than two were always attacking me at the same time, which sucks because their move sets are not built around each other
Still a dumb fight
I would only compare a boss like Orphan of Kos to a boss like Nameless Puppet. Both move around a ton but they are both late game bosses. Archbishop should really be compared to a boss like Vicar Amelia who also just stands there and sponges your hits. There are different types of bosses across different points in the game. I consider both Vicar Amelia and Archbishop to be fine for when you encounter them in the game.
idk man it may be the copium talking but i feel like Archbishop was to early
Yeah, it made no sense to compare archebishop to Gael lmao. Imagine comparing the complexity of an early game boss the last boss of an endgame dlc. Like, what?
Archebishop is clearly there to get you used to perfect blocks due to how rhythmic and predictable he is.
@@RIBAYROArchbishop is too late to be a tutorial boss. Gael as a three phase fight is obviously more complex, but his second phase alone, which is the only thing I was comparing, would make for a fine early game fight. Margit and Gascoigne are definitely more complex than that
@@magicat7356too late? He's barely mid game. And aside Scrapped Watchman, I'd say you can get away with getting sloppy on other bosses until archebishop. Imo archebishop is peak at conditioning the player to rely more on blocking and even deflecting the rhythmic, predictable attack he does. Think of it as a culmination of what you definitely should have learned by that point in the game.
@@RIBAYROWhat new lesson did he teach? What established lesson did he test you on? You've already had 3 earlier bosses that do the same things. At least scrapped watchman forced you to stop relying on nothing but parrying or blocking with the lightning stuff. The robot did the same with the fire. Its only a difficulty increase due to having more health and camera issues in phase 2
I think the first Black Rabbit Brotherhood boss fight is a better gank fight than anything that Fromsoft has ever made, including Ornstein and Smough. They are my third favorite fight in the game.
Exactly, they are a gank boss fight done right
Totally agree. I hate that the second fight made me like them less 😢
Better than the demon princes, huh?☠️
@freezingaethernity3393 no. I always forget that Demon Prince starts as a gank fight... Demon Prince is far better than Black Rabbit Brotherhood.
Demon Princes are better. And even tho I enjoy S&O more, I actually agree with you. The Bellfry Gargoyles are pretty good as well.
This is the first video you've made where my opinion's are HUGELY different. I'd put Archbishop way higher, and I'd stick Door Guardian at the absolute bottom.
I agree with door guardian but they both deserve to burn in hell
Some points I want to point out here. 1st, you can equip better defensive gears to be more resistant towards elemental effects. The merchant right before the corrupted parade boss sells like the best defensive parts for each element. 2nd, in the rematch with black rabbits, only the brother with the elemental buff is active and the rest are more passive unless you're too close to them, though they will throw projectiles at you.
I quite agree with the rest. Forgettable music outside of the collectable records, cheap animations that cause you to play a guessing game instead of reacting, lack of mobility and attack combos, etc. drag the bosses down so much. For me, the King of Puppet is the best fight and the only boss that can actually be comparable to the big baddies in FromSoft's souls games.
Edit: the nameless puppet is soooo close to be on the same level, but phase 2 has some flaws that I just can’t put him above the king. His animations are blurry which makes clarity for some attacks pretty much nonexistent, and his lightning dash attack, which I have to memorise instead of reacting. Not only that, I don’t like how he can just gap close over and over again with no break.
A lot of what you said in your second paragraph can be also applied to every From Souls game. SPECIALLY when it comes to the quality of the soundtrack. But that's not a discussion yall are ready to have.
Tho I hate being THAT guy, I will have to be THAT guy.
When people complain about "cheap animations" and stuff, they're usually simply not that good at the video game. I can't really think of a single attack like that outside of Nameless Puppet's main Fury attack where he delays the dash for a hot minute and then dashes in lightning fast speed and a few moves from some of the Stalkers minibosses.
And I prefer the "lAcK of mObIliTy" the bosses in Lies of P have then the complete trash can bosses in Elden Ring who keep running away and teleporting ALL over the arena cough*cough*Elden Beast, Placidusax, Rennala, every horseback Knight miniboss etc.
Lastly, most of Bosses in Lies of P have as many attacks/combos as the bosses in Bloodborne and DS3.
@@HopefulNihilist FromSoft does have some bumps here and there, but in their later works, most of the bosses are either on the level of King of Puppet or better.
Most enemies in lies of P, including the bosses have cheap ass animations that comes out at lightning speed after a long delayed that you can't even see the actual attack. If you're good at guessing when those come out to block, good for you, but I want to be able to react, not playing a guessing game. This trait also makes their movements seem weightless and floaty instead of smooth and weighty like those in FromSoft's games.
And of the bosses you listed, only Elden Beast is an actual problem because it covers so much space yet you can't use Torrent to even the odds. The rest are find as long as you don't play passively, which you almost never should in the later souls games anyway.
@@MaidenlessScrubI only really see that applying to Laxasia's phase 2 dive, I could never get the timing down so I opted for the talisman that lets you dodge fury attacks. Everything else was reactable to me
Would like to note that in black rabbit gang 2, their aggro actually does switch - whenever one speaks, they'll buff and then get more aggressive as the other two back off. It's still annoying though.
At this point it feels like anyone who brings up Gael as a legitimate example of good boss design just uses it as code for "I prefer to facetank the boss without learning it," and this idea gets reinforced in my head whenever this point is brought up in the same sentence as "X boss forces you to play passive/turn-based etc"
There's legitimate ways to play aggressively against the bosses in this game that have nothing to do with the parry system or waiting for X combo to finish or whatever, but they don't let you steamroll them 1st try like gael does so I guess they're not fun to fight anymore? Idk, the appeal of these types of games for me is broadly speaking the difficulty and the learning curve that comes with the combat, not necessarily whether or not the boss feels "fair" on the first or second attempt
Personally for me movement wasn’t typically an issue I had with the bosses. For me King of Puppets/Laxaisa/Scrapped Watchmen and Manus are S tier. I loved everything about those fights and always felt like despite my losses was constantly learning. I do feel you on the issue with Laxasia’s weird auto combos that don’t end even if you aren’t in her way. I hope they patch that and maybe give her AI some type of variation if you aren’t in front of her like maybe have her switch to her shield bash attack. The 2 bosses you ranked as one of the worst, Black Rabbit and The Arch Bishop is literally he’s just like me fr fr the tier listing. I hated those fights and dreaded them on NG+. Thankfully at least with Bishop his HP got clapped so he’s more manageable now.
Bro was just hating the entire time.
I am actually on your side. Even though i really love this game (got the plat) no boss except for Laxasia really excites me. I still like fighting most of them but they miss that polish FromSoftware made me used to. Id still recommend this game to everyone liking Souls games.
I mean it's their first try on a souls game, and They've been the closes imo to matches from software.
@@ducky4605 Absolutely. Really happy for Neowhizz's achviement here.
Are you referring to ER? Because I played the the DS series, and there were a lot of really low effort easy bosses, including DS1 having the same boss 3 times with very slight modifications. There were some great bosses as well, tbh, but I just think the games are a bit overhyped.
@@ThatGuy-ep7xq Yh but those were the first few souls games of the entire genre. LoP had all the FS souls games to look back on and see what they could change and add onto.
First soulslike by lesser known dev but boom, i'm already very hopeful and looking forward for the sequel and the dlc
I had a whole lot of fun with the Rabbit Brotherhood Round 2. They aren't really difficult so having everyone fight you at once with no phase changing is great, specially given how some of the siblings are so easily parried.
A little thing about the second encounter with the black rabbit brotherhood, they do take turns, but have ranged attacks when not in their "turn" one of which brings you closer to them making them attack directly
Laxasia Is Such A Amazing Fight Number 1
Manus in top 4 bruh. And why are u refusing to use consumable that instantly remove decay? Or one that restore weapon durability. You get a lot of them through the game, so use it?
Because they're consumed and lost on use
18:10 It's on rails for a reason, that's the point. It's to get you used to the patterns, to learn follow ups, to give tell the player "this will happen, then this" and allows time to drill down the moveset. That move is SO fun when parrying, imo even if it's easier to just dodge and watch her go, it's not worth giving up the fun of parrying the full chain
Also the fury attack like many others is not that hard to react to, she does it after she finishes the lightning. The time from when she moves is forgiveable enough that you can still parry too early rather than too late if you click right when she begins moving. And like a lot of attacks in this game, the timing is set in stone, meaning that with experience, you don't have to rely on reaction speed at all, it's just tempo
Except the issue is that you're never encouraged to actually face the attack head on. You can certainly benefit a fair bit from parrying it, but you're better off running away and punishing the end of it instead since trying to parry it risks getting caught up and dying from full health.
Plus, the issue he was stating here was the fact that she always follows the combo chain up with a specific move, not the fact that she has a long combo chain. Where for reference, the one move in question is super easy to see coming and punish even without having known for the past 20 seconds it's coming out.
@@jacobnorris8256 Parrying is heavily rewarding, more so than dodging a lot of the time. Missing a parry results in lost health that can be regained by either perfect blocks or attacking. Hitting a perfect block raises the poise break meter on the boss and contributes to breaking their weapon if that applies, not to mention any added benefit from items that give you buffs when you perfect parry.
Also he said the move was super hard to dodge, I’m just saying that it’s a scheduled timing just like a lot of her other moves
@@blazex224 Yes, I know parrying is rewarding, obviously. I'm just arguing that parrying this particular attack is less rewarding than it should be relative to its danger level. Unless you're speedrunning her or something, simply running away feels like a much better option because there's no risk involved and you can still punish the end of it.
@@jacobnorris8256 Oh I see, yeah that's true, though there's attacks like that in a lot of these games so can apply in many cases I guess
Been eager for this video! Hoping you'll do a ranking of the areas as I'm curious about your thoughts on them - I think a lot of them are on the same level as many souls areas
Love your channel, love this video, glad you made it… but you should revisit it after you played at least 3 times. My opinion on all the bosses completely changed after new game plus so I can’t imagine what it’ll be like after another play through. Not saying to delete this or anything. I think it’d be cool to look at the difference of opinions after multiple play throughs.
there’s an Amulet in the game that totally negates overtime status Effects like decay or overheat but you still take initial damage
i mean yeah but you get that from the skippable final boss of the game, its only for NG+
@@nicolasfernandeztaboada1656 yeah, the game gives you op tools like this amulet, Making NG+ runs, Speed Runs or Ergo Farming way fun and easier, I stopped at NG + 6
@@bwhere45 yup, and the one that makes you not spend any stamina when perfect blocking is amazing
great video, though note that your build and consumable items actually matter in this game, if you used anti decay parts and maybe had some of those status ailment removing items, youd have an easier time, i never had any issues with status ailments because i had the right parts for the right bosses
It's kinda funny that Simon's boss name is "Arm of God" knowing his second name is Manus. Get it? Simon Manus? Arm of God? Manus? Arm ?. Nevermind...
Yo, the Cat is back!
Ok so, for Laxasia’s first fury attack in second phase, it kinda goes at the same pace as the lightning, so just assume there’s like two lightning bolts between her and just deflect accordingly. Or as soon as you see her move just slap deflect LoP’s deflects have more “end” then they have startup deflect frames, in some cases you’re better off holding the button down like with Nameless during the twin slashes.
In my humble opinion... fuck nameless puppet and all the spamy stalker bosses, everything else was decent, not a bad Boss roster if you ask me
The Corrupted Parade Master could not inflict Decay to me with a single attack. Not even the grab attack would inflict Decay. the grab would do around half the Decay bar. I did not use resistance potions or anything. Did you not have any Acid resistance gear equipped?
To be fair, the game doesnt't do a good job at explaining status effects, so maybe you didn't know that Decay is the consequence of taking Acid damage.
Also, for the Brotherhood rematch fight. Only the sibling that has an active elemental buff is aggro and runs towards you. The other ones stand back and do an attack every once in a while (Spear and double swords ones throw stuff at you when not aggro, curved sword one uses puppet string). So what you have to do is just let the aggro one come to you and it's a 1v1 with two other using a range attack occasionally. There's an audio queue when the aggroed sibling changes, as well as the previous aggroed one losing their buff. And you can let 2 siblings at low HP so you kill them both quickly and get a 1v1 with the big guy. It's not an amazing fight, but I think you made it harder for yourself than it needed to be.
Yeah these are things that aren't at all obvious for a first playthrough, which I made sure to emphasize. I didn't make it harder than necessary for myself, the game just did a bad job explaining
@@magicat7356 I definitly agree with it being badly explained. But hopefully it will be more fun for you if you play it again, now that you know that. Also, maybe I came across as hostile or something, which wasn't my intention. So I just wanted to say, great video!
@@SaixgaNah you didn't come across hostile, I appreciate explaining this stuff since I genuinely didn't know it. These are just my gut feelings on first playthrough, with analysis on stuff I observed. So I just wanted to re emphasize that there's stuff I won't know the first time. This information would change a lot for a usual ranking I do where I rank them after countless replays. But i wanted to make a first impressions ranking, so obviously stuff that's poorly explained may end up going over my head. Glad you enjoyed tho!
@@magicat7356 Cheers!
Commenting on the predictability of archbishop, proceeds to get hit by every combo lol.
Doesn't mean I'm wrong
@@magicat7356
It does tho, doesn't it?
If someone claims a moveset is very predictable yet proceeds to repeatdily get hit by it, then that necessitates one of the following to be truth:
Either A, the moveset is in fact NOT that predictable or B, you're bad at the game. Both are damning in different ways.
@@HopefulNihilistThat's stupid. You can find something predictable, obvious but still occasionally fuck it up. I didn't get hit by every attack either lol. By predictable I mean for example he has a slow 3 hit combo. You see the first attack, you know what's coming. It's a dull predictable combo even if you sometimes get hit by it. Doesn't mean it's suddenly complex.
But if it's so predictable, why did you get hit? Unless you're Let Me Solo Her, your argument is invalid. @@magicat7356
I really like he's vocabulary i had so much fun watching your video although i have different opinions on some boss but great video
While I wouldn't put Nameless Puppet before KoP or Laxasia, I agree with you that, especially after Manus, it feels like a comeback to the "right" kind of parry-based flow. Instead of having to deal with memorising the timing of frustratingly delayed attacks, you're tasked, in full Sekiro fashion, with learning to parse its moveset. It's a type of challenge that feels significantly more enjoyable, while requiring just as much attention and analysis.
PS: I personally adore the Nameless Puppet OST. It may not be very bombastic, but those subdued dissonant violins (very Bloodborn-esque) are the perfect musical carpeting to Geppetto talking to you in the background.
I really like Andreus. For one, the design of his mask and face employ two of my favorite character design tropes, namely a mask that looks like a face and a gaping hole where a face should be. The buildup to his fight is also pretty well done, especially seeing his centipede half slink down into the hole in the floor of the church, and the introduction of carcass-type enemies at the beginning of the level leaves you wondering just what the carcasses are and makes his reveal all the more horrific. Admittedly, phase 1 isn’t the best, but I really enjoyed fighting his centipede half and deflecting the swings from his staff during phase 2. I really liked the phase transition cutscene, dialogue during phase 2, and especially his OST
Also, it was kind of dumb that nameless and romeo weren’t in amazing tier.
9:53 the tell for the overhead arm slam is the foot it comes down slightly to tell you when hes gonna hit not the arm
I'm sure someone has pointed this out by now, but in Italian, Fuoco is fire, so you're essentially fighting a robot called King's Flame, Fire.
same with the Simon Manus, arm of God (manus- hand/fist in latin)
Overall the game is really good and I agree with a lot of points you made. My only gripe with this game was there was like two or three bosses that were cheap and you’re gonna have to play a couple of times to beat them. I did not use specters at all. (I hate losing and restarting any fight, I am a very skilled gamer and somebody on my level should not lose if they do it’s a bad game design)
Victor is my favorite boss simply for the voice acting at the starting cutscene 😂😂 “WELCOME…TO MY RING” the voice acting made him sound like a hulking brute that was mentally throwed off
18:55 I did not realize that when I was parrying the bolt attacks they were returning to her xD
This is the second video that I've seen with boss ranking and I agree with a lot of choices with both videos but i find the first Black Rabbit fight to be really enjoyable (Honestly my favorite fight from the whole game) Big Brother i find fair to fight as a one Vs one and then his siblings arent too bad to take down to make it a one on one again, because Big brother plays more passively when at a distance with his rush attack being the easiest fury attack in my opinion to parry in the entire game, plus the siblings only come down every 1/4 of his health to give the best time to run and take the brothers out
The jester absolutely terrified me as a mini boss
NGL, I bursted in laugh, when you called Fuoco Fuck-o
To get Decay on one hit from corrupted parade puppet tells me you had basically little to no protection against special attributes. Even with that, why not use the cleanse potion? He definitely wasn't the best boss but your complaints honestly sound more like an issue with your playstyle. There were multiple ways to fix that Decay issue.
Curious but if you play Remnant 2 will you rank the bosses? Or does the randomly generated playthrough make it very hard to rank them. Anyway W video.
I feel like I must have had some weird experience with the second black rabbit brother hood fight. I think I would put it in one of my top 5 fights of the game (like, the 5th one mind you, but still there).
They came at me 1 at a time unless I was intentionally walking into multiple at the same time. You could tell which one was gonna chase you by which one weapon buffed. When the other brothers threw something, there were audio queues.
I think my favorite part was the atmosphere. Individually they were fodder, which just made me feel like I was kicking the shit out of kids whose parental “big brother” I killed. Then even when the big brother comes back he is a fraction of himself. It was a sobering boss fight in the pile of monsters and robots.
Yeah, the brotherhood DO come at you one at a time, with the others actually using a ranged attack. It took me a while to realise this, and I was trying to focus down one and got frustrated when another would attack me, but the fight clicks when you realise the buffs tell you which you should be fighting.
how is simon so high?
I do also feel like the devs kind of play it cheap when it comes to "surprise" phase 2s. In most games, if the 1st phase has you deplete a boss' hp bar, then that means theyve died and are reborn in some way or someone else takes over and acts as phase 2, etc. Otherwise, phase 2 should start at a certain threshold, usually half hp. Gutting a boss' hp bar only to fade into a cutscene and another full hp bar is just demoralizing.
Granted this is a pretty arbitrary point but it just felt a little cheap to me. Though they did actually do a half hp phase transition on victor so idk why they didnt do it for the likes of alaxia, green monster, or others who transform instead of dying
I mean, Fromsoft does it a lot as well these days
@@omegazx7236 But any time the hp bar is completely depleted, that means that boss is dead, such as in the case of something like Radagon, of course, but also like rennala and malenia, "blade of miquella" i believe she calls herself. She dies and is reborn, whereas everyone else like godfrey, godrick, or radahn for instance aren't yet dead so their transition occurs mid hp. Yes, this is of course an arbitrary argument but it was just something small that got a lil annoying for me the more it happened in lies of p
What a meaningless complain, my goodness.
I'd say most of the bosses are generally good, minus a few crappy ones. I don't feel like most of the bosses in this game have an issue with mobility. Archbishop is literally a giant blob. It makes sense that he wouldn't move around much.
Today I learned there are people who like bosses who constantly jump across the stage.
Didn’t know that was a thing.
my strat for getting the heavy hit on laxasia is just bring in shot puts. to my knowledge its the only throwable that can trigger the stagger. makes struggling to charge a heavy just thrown out the window and lets u focus on lights and parries cause charged heavies in that fight are a death sentence. also give u morew space to dodge her bs stagger attack
I like how you said you remembered the phase 1 track for king of puppets and then used Romeo's track for nameless puppet after talking about Romeo.
I did that on purpose because Nameless puppets ost is forgettable ambient
King and Victor being back to back felt so so good. Wonderful bosses. And then the green monster just mopped the floor with me :(
Man I agree so much with champion Viktor's phase 2. All his moves are consistently fun to fight around, his voiceover is funny, he's thematically fantastically executed, but his phase 2 just doesn't do anything at all. Still fun to fight, i'm not complaining about fighting his fun phase 1 again, but it really hurts his overall impact and memorability.
Even *besides* the lack of notable differences between the phases, I really wish it was, y'know, harder? You spend some time mastering his phase 1 which has a fantastic difficulty level, reach a point where you can consistently reach phase 2 and then... that's it? Once you have phase 1 down you pretty much have phase 2 down as well and thus he ends up feeling really easy after a while.
Also mostly agree on Andreus. I don't really know why people like him so much. You stand still and learn deflect timings for the same small and fairly boring moveset, reach phase 2, walk around him and then do the same thing for another healthbar. You CAN choose to sabotage yourself by fighting the tentacle in the second phase for variety, but it's ultimately a really badly executed mechanic that encourages you to never do that. I think people like his design a lot but tbh his backside/phase 1 design feels too goofy to me and kind of ruins what they seem to be going for. I wouldn't call it *bad* at all, but still firmly mediocre.
Also also agree with Simon Manus' design. Worst part is I would've LOVED that design if he WASN'T the main antagonist of the game. Fucking humpty dumpty rolling around with a huge technohammer? That sounds super fun. But it really undermines him as a main villain.
Personnally i like Andreus quite a lot. I totally agree that phase 2 is counter-intuitive and that's why he never reach the top for me.
But I absolutelly love the tempo of his monster side's moveset.
He's the first boss that forced me to get good or quit, because his moveset is simple but very punishing, and force you to not be greedy and it felt so good.
And obviously design, lore and OST (Wing of Hypocrisy go brrrr)
I agree almost entirely with the placement of these bosses, but disagree with the later half not being put as great or amazing tier. Other than that, good video. The DLC will probably have some much better bosses too
For the Rabbit Brotherhood you can also break the big brother's sword after deflecting it enough, which will make his damage plummet.
Every enemy that has a strong red glowing attack has like the same timing to it, so when reaching the endgame, parrying these attacks are not really a problem anymore, just more punishing if you fail at it.
For example, in Laxasias Boss Fight at the beginning of the 2nd phase after she throws numerous thunderbolts at you, she adds a heavy attack in which she flies towards you, smashing the ground.
I am in my third playthrough and I cannot remember ever being hit by that attack, because even if there are next to no frames for you to react, the timing of the attack is pretty easy to see coming, so, thats a skill issue.
I'm stuck on the door Guardian I use advance and can get him down twice but always die everyone else only has to get him down twice.
“Maybe these guys should design MMO boss fights” interestingly their previous game to this was an MMO lol
The Black Rabbit Brotherhood feel and sound like they just plucked a bunch of characters out of Fable.
Simon has God-tier design bro
I agree about music not fitting the 2nd black jobber brotherhood fight, but for a different reason. It is clear devs kinda wanted them to be memorable characters, these four represent death in the original source material(hence the coffin), the main trailer ends with showing off these 4 characters, and there was generally many focus around them during marketing. This is probably why they chose epic theme song for the boss fight. But in the actual storytelling department, they kinda do nothing...? So it feels off and does not meet the player's expectations. Maybe after the 1st encounter and killing the eldest, one of the rabbits could have periodically "invaded" player's playthrough to keep players engaged with their "revenge" subplot. Hell, make it an online feature and let player's gank each other as one of the rabbits.
I for sure thought they were going to pull something like this after seeing one of them pulling off parkour tricks in Elysian boulevard, just after your first visit to hotel. A stand-in for the invade mechanic players encounter periodically. But sadly that wasn't the case.
Hello Magicat! I really enjoy your videos! But remember when you once asked for good cuphead chalenges? Well why dont you try enchanted portals? Its not good but funny but for actual chalange whetstoning every boss and you Can make this a sieries. But still great video!
ngl i really dislike how you constantly compare someone's first game to other games that are and have been deemed masterpieces with experience in the game field as well. as i expected, laxasia and nameless puppet are on the top which they are good fights, but i don't really agree with your reasonings as it lowkey just gives souls elitest vibes. not EVERY boss needs to be incredibly flashy, mobile, and bouncing around the room. they keep a good sense of variety with these bosses that i love alot more than the other souls games. like the archibold, his fight is to build up your sense of parrying/endurance.
It would have been nice to see the Rabbit Brotherhood fights be choreographed better, like attacks that come in waves in some semi-random but manageable sequence actually would have made the fight fun.
Laxasia fight is a bait and switch. They made phase one to fool you into thinking its gonna be slow but hard hitting boss, So you better not mess up. Then they switch it up and gives the boss crack and it goes into 5th gear. The King of puppets is more or less the same.
Finally ended up playing it. Have to admit even tho Laxasia was pure pain it's my favourite fight i hate in any soulslike. That music from phase 2 to me was actually the only memorable song, the first one in the game where i was like: HOT DIGGITY DAYUM ITS GETTING REAL and died to the first dive after the lightning bolts.
I'm actually extremely split on the Brotherhood fight - I really enjoyed the first one, but the second one is, imo, the worst fight in the game by quite a large marging. The reason why first one is fun is because you will most likely alter between fighting the main boss and then dealing with ads. So, you make some progress with the main fight, then take a break to fight an npc and so on. This gives the fight nice pacing and makes it very engaging.
On the second fight, though, you first have to deal with the annoying adds (that btw got way more annoying due to status effects), which is EXTREMELY slow and then you have to face the big brother and learn his moveset, knowing that failing means that you will have to repeat the 1st phase. This was the one fight I actually summoned for, it didn't even seem all that hard, but after a few tries I decided that I just can't take the tedium
"Andreus is basically a target dummy." Thanks for letting me know early in the video that I can click off.
funny because on both black rabbit fights I felt like someone finally got the gank fights right haha
nice video!
There's an element of good ideas, but like I said, I felt they were like a dungeon boss in an mmo, which would make sense since they've ported an mmo before and have experience with that.
hmm yeah I definitely feel like they lean on the side of "good ideas, poor execution"@@magicat7356
Damn you were really not invested in the story or what? 4 kids ruling a large portion of an apocalyptic world, mainly cause of their eldest brother. You come along and kill him. Battle Maniac walks away with revenge which they take by going all out on you (yet with alternating aggros just like the first fight) nd by reviving and buffing their brother with the same shit that turned humans to carcasses and manus to hand of god. I was just frothing at the mouth to the rematch i couldn't wait.
Obviously if you never slowed down to notice that one of them shouts a voiceline and buffs their weapom before going apeshit at you, and you keep trying to figut the inactive brothers. It'll feel like a bs gank fight but is that really the game's fault? I see neither bad design nor a simple "dungeon boss". These were more developed characters than Simon
No I wasn't invested in the story, and story doesn't really make a boss fight from bad to good. They had annoying voices so I just wanted them to piss off
@@magicat7356 Voicelines don't make a good boss bad either huh. Specially when those are literally a telegraph for aggro in the fight. To each their own i guess. Comments have flamed you enough I don't need to further
Mad clown puppet, door gardian, and walker of illusions are actually mini-bosses i think its pretty cool how some mini-bosses are required to move on it sets it apart from other souls like games plus not many people know but all stalker bosses except for black rabbit brotherhood are mini bosses
Forgot to mention but green monster of the swamp stole the body of the scraped watchman you fought in the beginning
Whoever cooked on lightning mommy needs a large Big Mac meal
Simon's fury attack is fine, but in his second phase it sucks because it's really easy for him to jump off screen if you're too close.
I think that and Fuoco's overhead swing are probably the 2 valid criticisms this guy made. Crying about decay in a late game boss is pretty silly.
6:15 You mention they should design MMO Bosses like this, funnily enough Neowiz did exactly that prior to working on Lies of P 😅😂
If I'm forced to do a gang fight, it's only fair I bring my own back up.
the only boss i struggled with ( and am still struggling with ) is the Nameless Puppet , specifically the second phase
Dodge to the right
Would you consider doing a video on Insomminac's Spider-Man 2 when it comes out?
No
@@magicat7356 Thanks anyway. I get where that's probably not your thing.
Before whiny babies start commenting a sh*tstorm, please don't play the Enchanted Portals game, it will mainly just be a flaccid waste of your time. It's more like a Flash game based on Cuphead and it's not worth wasting time on.
@@PaulW_ftPAULKlol I've already tried it so I could make a video making fun of it but it's too miserable to be worth it
Luxasia and King of Puppets are my favorite bosses in any game ever for some reason 🤷♂they were a thrill to learn and so cool to watch
ain't no way you put the mad clown above the black rabbit brotherhood
I feel you would of had a better time if you used a fast weapon. That gives you time to perfect guard, hit, and have time to get the next guard off witch takes away the turn based combat you get from heavy weapons. Kinda like bloodborne
In terms of late game boss fights (based on how far I am at the moment), Laxasia is my favorite. It's not a stupid gank fight or gimmick fight. It's just a solid fight to the death between 2 warriors.
Love the phase 2 cut scene for Laxasia. Simon fight is bananas
Instead of guessing those timings for a lot of attacks when fighting the bosses, I blocked quite a lot until I memorized them. Because of the regain mechanic I could recover most of the damage I took. I think complaining about something when the game offers the solution is kinda on you if you ignore it.
And you are obviously supposed to parry all of Laxasias long combos in phase one. Thats why they are always the same, so you can learn the rythm.
You cant block fury attacks though, so that doesn't make sense.
@@magicat7356 Fury attacks typically only do 1/3 of your health in my experience, and also if parried give a ton of your rallied hp back. This game is defo built around parrying, and if you use the guard regain mechanic to it's fullest it's far more forgiving than most people think it is. And besides, fury attacks are usually at the end of combos or are just kinda random things they throw out, if you don't want to risk if if you're both at low health or somth, just run around them ds 1 style.
@@magicat7356to have stakes? You can block like 60% damage with heavy weapons.
@@magicat7356 Probably to force the player to learn how to parry, since its such an important mechanic.
I think you fought the brotherhood wrong. It’s not just three ais, whoever has the buffed weapon will be agressive while the others don’t attack
Alright lets be honest here this video is going to receive a lot of unecessery hate but what about instead of writing a hate comment why dont you try to understand that your opinion may vary from his and try to be respectfull instead?
"The combat mechanics aren't that good." He should explain what he meant. Like does he just not like it because he can't just dodge and attack at the right time like in fromsofts souls games?
i calls em like i sees em.
I partially disagree on your point about fury attacks. Yes, some of them you are only able to parry by memorizing, but I think the overall point of them was to make you play smarter, not harder.
So in your Simon example, it's quite difficult to parry, but you can also be smarter and just circle strafe to your right through the whole move and you'll never get hit. Not only that but you end up behind Simon when he lands, giving an opportunity for big damage.
I think I lot of players focus too much on just blocking / parrying and forget that sometimes dodging or moving/running are useful defensive tools as well.
Personally I would like to see you play the game again and make the list again. I have beaten P 4 times and I think a lot of these listings are definitely as you said in the beginning more of a first impressions list than a ranking of mechanics and combat
I personally love most of the bosses I have face, but I do have a large problem with most of the deflect timings on things. Honestly, some small changes to that and I would honestly say that most bosses here are great.
La Sexia...? I know she's hot bro, but come on...
The BRB refight definitely take turn being aggresive
Thumbs up for a great video! I didn't think the boss themes were that memorable, either. All the gems were from the vinyls. But then, I hardly remember any of the Fromsoft boss themes, because they all blend into one hodgepodge of epic Latin choir at some point. King of Puppet-Romeo theme in LoP is the Godskin theme of ER for me, and the rest... are just there. As for Victor's 2nd phase, it was supposed to be the Malenia of LoP with hyper mobility and picture perfect timing requirements. But they had to scale it back after the feedback from the Focused Group Test by the genre veterans. Remember, these are the same people who thought Romeo was totally fine. Alas, Victor ended up being one of the easiest bosses from being one of the hardest in the game.
But I would like to share my two cents on the boss mobility, which I believe stems from mainly 3 factors.
1. The fact that you have 2 primary defensive option, instead of just one you often rely on in Fromsoft games. While you can absolutely beat the game with just the parry, or the dodge, or even guard-and-regain method, it is clear as day that the game wants you to mix up the parry and the dodge at the right moment. Push backs, string attacks, tracking, recover animations all dictate your decision to hold your ground, or just move out of the way.
And I think the reason why so many of the bosses seem rather tame in their mobility is to offer a clear indication as to which defensive option is viable for the upcoming attack. When bosses fly around every corner of the arena hitting you from all directions, it truly becomes a muscle memory, or you just resort to one method you are more comfortable with: You either spam dodge, or frantically tap on guard hoping you pull off some parries to gain your health back.
2. The tracking in LoP is other worldly, to the point where even if the enemy moved behind you mid-combo, your second swing of charged heavy attack almost always tracks. The repositioning of an enemy is only truly meaningful, if it makes you whiff, or releases the lock-on, so you have to manually reacquire. I do not believe either happens that much, if at all.
3. This being their first game is of course, the biggest culprit. They did not know how people would react and adapt to the new frankenstein of ideas they had put out. The existence of Laxasia and the Green Monster clearly shows us that they are capable of making flashy, mobile bosses, but mechanically the game does not back up hyper mobile enemies, so they might have thought 'why bother, if it is all just for spectacles and does not bring any new challenges to the table?'. Or it was simply that they did not want to exhaust the player even more than they were already doing. We can only guess.
Round8 does not have one and a half decade of experience to delicately balance the mechanical challenge and the perceived difficulty. Some of the nigh unreactable, poorly telegraphed fury attacks exhibit their lack of experience with the designing of this type of combat. All the more reason to look forward to their future projects, because despite all of its shortcomings, this is already the best non-Fromsoft soulsgame right after Nioh2 for me.
I think this game is really good but definitely could use some work
king of puppets is easily the best boss of the game for me, peak design and peak introduction for BOTH phase, and romeo's theme is by far my favorite ost of the game.