If you read Red Fox's mask description it actually hints that she eventually figured out Black Cat wasn't her brother but she still loved him like family regardless. 😢
@@ThatDudeCalled I still think sparing them is the fair option since despite helping the Black Rabbit Brotherhood trash the hotel and kidnap Geppetto, nobody in the hotel was hurt or killed. The only one who really deserves it was the prick pretending to be Alidoro, like... killing your partner because you wanted more money out of their treasure hunts, then taking his identity and pretending to be him while still being a greedy asshole? Bastard deserved the stab in the gut I gave him.
@@ThatDudeCalledthey were really growing on me honestly, when I got to Black Cat and I got a chance to spare him, his dialogue made me really sad, as I thought I would be forced to kill his sister. I was so glad when I was able to spare her too.
Another thing that ties Lies of P to other fairy tales is when Gepetto says he commissioned the portrait of Carlo from D. Gray. Which *has* to be Dorian Gray who had a portrait of himself that aged instead of him.
Gepetto also appears to be a bit disappointed when he sees you have grown to look more mature when P's hair grows. So it's possible that, aside from immortality, he possibly could have commissioned the painting with the intent of specifically keeping Carlo a young boy forever. Which would be... pretty creepy. Paired with him constantly remarking about him wanting P to "stay a good boy" to him, it's certainly a viable reading, I think
I loved that touch. I made a joke when I saw the nose on the portrait that this was the portrait of Dorian Pinocchio and then I talked to Geppetto and flipped when he said it was commissioned by D Gray. So cool!
Just so you know, the three taps Dorothy does at the end is to show that she IS the one from the Wizard of Oz. It's a direct line: "Tap/click your heels together three times and say 'there's no place like home.'"
I think I can explain why Geppetto did what: Simon's plans involved massive amounts of Ergo, but there are indications through documents and dialogue that indicate that the Ergo was running out, as the alchemists were delivering shipments of weaker Ergo over time. Both Geppetto and Simon's plans require massive amounts of Ergo, and there wasn't enough left for either of them, nevermind both. And where does Ergo come from? People. So, the frenzy was about getting enough Ergo to make the plan work.
@@karlbenito9992 The old Ergo was excavated from underground, before anyone knew what it was. However, as said above, that supply wasn't limitless and was running out. Once the Puppet Frenzy started, it's unlikely any more puppets were leaving the city
@@zououtexceptme7750 No problem. Of course, the real brilliance of Gepetto's plan is that it was basically a perpetual motion machine for obtaining Ergo. Pinocchio's heart absorbs Ergo from anything he kills, whether puppet, monster, or human. Plus, since every time he dies, time rewinds due to the Blue Fairy's power, Pinnochio can obtain an effectively infinite amount of Ergo. While Manus' plan was basically to steal all of the Ergo available to power his plan, Geppetto banked on his creation being able to gain the Ergo of numerous timelines to make it work, as his plan appears to have required exponentially more Ergo than what Manus needed.
I think its the opposite, yes they both wanted ergo, but you can only get that from puppets not humans, geppetto started the frenzy to get humans to kill puppets and acquire ergo, Simon decided to double down on that by spreading the petrification disease which made the monsters able to have ergo within them so they could get ergo from him whether they died or killed puppets, humans civilians are, in my opinion, just casualties
I love how consistently bad a father Gepetto is shown. We get a sense of it through some item descriptions that Gepetto is an absent father always focusing on more important things. Also, props to the voice actor for making it seem like whenever he tells us that he cares for us and that we are precious to them, it always rang hollow. Then in the Happily Ever After ending, dude just up and left us all alone, off to do more of his own thing and leaving us with nothing but subservient puppetized version of the Hotel Krat crew.
They are 100% setting up for a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen type scenario. Not only do we have Dorothy, the portrait of Carlo is literally painted by D.Grey. Which can only mean Dorian Grey. Also there is a nod to Sherlock Holmes, but this one could just be an easter egg.
@@breakthecode4634 I think that's why they said LEG "type scenario". The same kind of idea using Victorian era fairytales and fiction. Maybe they could also add Alice from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland too.
@@breakthecode4634 League of extraordinary gentleman is comic book series by Alan Moore. It reimagines many classic literature characters as a superhero team.
I want to think that part of the reason why the people of Krat loved the puppets is that, well, the time period this takes place is actually pretty awful for the ordinary laborer. Work for ordinary people was often dirty, demeaning, and/or dangerous, with bosses who don't care if you die. So, having something that kept the poor from being forced to do those jobs would likely be seen as a good thing. These aren't workers being deprived of their livelihood, but the poor being kept from living lives bordering on slavery.
They would be deprived of their livelihood though, puppet's are essentially a manufacturable labor force that would quickly take up every blue collar job in the city, leaving the human workers unemployed with maybe puppet maintenance available as a job market. I don't think it's a coincidence that we see (AFAIK) all mentions of puppet's being beloved in richer districts of the city.
It's pretty much what could have happened had automation occurred before the advent of workers' rights. Or at the very least had automation at the very beginning of industrialization.
I mean this makes sense kind of. But if you don't have a job then you're making any money and you need money to buy food and pay bills and stuff. Working in factories back then sucked a lot, but it stopped you from starving to death as a homeless person.
I think Simon mentions a world without lies because he’s trying to escape the physical pain and isolation that comes with his ability to read minds. He mentions Sophia helping with pain and that’s why he keeps her captive
Honestly making games based off fairy tales into a souls like game is actually very interesting. I would love if they continue to do games like this like, imagine one based off Peter Pan in Neverland, that would be so cool. Like imagine like one of the endings turns you into Captain hook and the whole premise about being about a cycle. Idk after seeing this, the potential is there.
Yea, this isn't the first time but Indepdently, the R-18 game BlackSouls draws upon older fairy tales, although this one has it's own tricks with it's own engine, vs BlackSoul's RPG Maker for 1v1 duels.
The original Peter Pan book is apparantly a bit less kid friendly than the disney movie, so I would totally be interested what noewiz could cook up with it
@@kylecorrales9962 not really, more like take aspects of the original peter pan story and maybe the Disney version. Like imagine the MC you play is a lost boy or a Peter Pan to be. Like being Peter Pan is a title and that you don't find out about it until the very end of the game. Like one of the endings has you find out that the Boss Captain Hook was a previous Peter Pan or something like that
I'm incredibly bad at parrying, but I really love the concept of ergo. A form of energy that simultaneously embodies "the past" (memories) and "the future" (lifespan) is a really fun idea, and Lies of P does enough exploration of this for me to want to see more.
you can play Armored Core 6 then, same thing tbh this concept does happen from time to time in different story, I can't recall where I saw it thou but AC6 does use this story element
I finished the game and not once parried on purpose. Just blocking works fine. Stat Weapon scaling is miniscule so it is better to increase your weight cap which does not have a soft cap. So you can wear the heaviest weapons and armor. So you can just tank a lot of hits.
Ergo reminded me a lot of the Philosopher's Stone in Fullmetal Alchemist, which is also made from the life of people and directly correlates to their lifespan. And there is even a serial killer made into a stone that is used in a puppet, who acts very much like the king of riddles. And Simon does resemble the main antagonist of FMA, with his plan to consume god and all lol Not to mention that Pinocchios arm resembles the automail that Ed has to wear.
@@leesasuki almost the same but not quite, corral is an energy source thats also people yes but in a much different way than ergo is, ergo is like a persons past and future crystalized into a useable form, and while yes people can wake up inside puppet bodies thanks to it, its more like the ergo fueling the shell to turn sed shell into the person the ergo used to be corral on the other hand is a living organism that is a super energy source, but also can house within itself artificial intelligences composed entirely of corral wave patterns, these ai's can then manipulate certain bits of technology like armored cores and can sometimes communicate with people like the player if i were to state the difference, ergo requires a body (even if that of a puppet) to become a person and is the unliving crystalization of peoples memories and life, while corral is a living thing in its own right that has no need for a body but still can commandeer a body like an armored core or an ice worm and forms intelligences on its own, although it still can incorporate the minds of humans into itself much like digitizing a person
@@chimericpaladin35813 And now I remember that other game that also used similar setting, Death Stranding Although I'm not sure about how different these are, I didn't play LoP so I can't be too sure, but ergo does sound like Coral in some sense. Do remember, it is Fromsoft game and hence the explanation is not exactly clear. As Coral, for example Ice Worm and Sea Spider, they fight us not because they want to fight us, they act more like a machine in this sense while also kinda possessed their own personality, sometime (like how ice worm become self aware). And in a certain part of story (try not to spoil the story here), Ayre was called "C-mutation", and from how only some of these Coral able to communicate and act like human around Augmented-Human, I would say Coral, in its primitive form, work more like things in Death Stranding, where it can carry energy, carry information (as how Augmented Human work), and kinda mindless Which if you think about it, it could achieve something very similar to ergo as you can store someone mind inside the Coral (as mentioned in the same part of story about Ayre C-mutation), and basically put it inside an AC or puppet to "revive them", and vice versa as if ergo evolved (like into some water or gas form), feels like it can act exactly like how Coral act as it contain multiple personality inside it at this point
Maybe it’s looking too deep into it but I thought it was cool that that the submarine looked kinda similar to a whale. Just like the whale that Pinocchio got swallowed by.
Ahaha, most def. The only other easter egg regarding the Disney versions whale, whose name is Monstro, is of course the Barren Swamp boss, who you can see also shares the name Monstro. That whale really scared the fuck out of me as a little kid playing the Pinocchio Super Nintendo game..... there's a final level where you run away from the whale on a raft and it literally gave me nightmares. Ahahah
@@deeku.4009 Sorry, I am going to reply to this again. Barren Swamp Monster is a reference to the Disney name Monstro? Which means monster? How? Lots of things in the game are monsters, naming one of them (that looks nothing like a whale or a dogfish) a monster isn't really a reference to anything. Amusingly I also had nightmares as a kid of running away from a completely different boss monster that I really shouldn't have been scared of.
I realized just how well written the game was when I went to the Island of Alchemists not to beat a bad guy, but because I wanted answers. Plus, the fact that there are multiple threats and no single antagonist throughout the story really helps keep things fresh.
What kept me hooked until the end was honetly Gepetto. Id say about halfway through the game you start to realize hes probably not the good guy, but only at the end do you understand why. The urge to find out about his real motive was exceptionally strong.
Arlecchino's state, pinned and wired to a wall with his body impaled, is likely a reference to Brau 1589 from the manga/anime Pluto. In it, Brau was the first robot to ever kill a human, and the fact that he could despite being 3 Laws compliant makes him genuinely terrifying in-universe, because it makes no sense that he could kill a human in spite of there being no faults in his AI.
I mean...our dear boy Asimov himself said the laws were insufficient to prevent a robot from committing acts that could be construed as harmful to humanity, and has a body of work detailing the MANY ways it can go down. So not really horrifying, at least in terms of being unsafe.
@@KuroeNezumi That doesn't really remove the horror of that, just shifts the subject. "oh these ironclad rules that we trusted to keep us safe are not in fact ironclad? Well who wrote them? who's fault is it? Did they know and was int intentional?"
@@pillarmenn1936I like to think that he became perfect the moment he became “imperfect”. The closest way a robot could be human is if they become what humans are, imperfect. No faults in his AI because he already became human.
During NG+ on the bridge to the Cathedral, you hear a puppet say that the King orders them to protect the humans and purge the Petrification monsters. Romeo himself says they're still bound by the Grand Covenant, which would imply that anything they're killing is no longer human.
It's possible that Romeo was dying from the petrification disease and asked Geppetto to turn him into a puppet. Geppetto did so but in the process intentionally turned him into his slave, part of Geppetto's plot to slay the people of Krat in order to gain enough ergo to revive Carlo. This worked until Romeo's ergo was awakened, and he took to controlling the rest of the puppets to control the monster population that was rapidly growing from the Alchemists' failed cure. Once we kill the king, the puppets are no longer set on fighting the monsters without the king's guidance and are now just mindless metal creatures
Never thought I’d pop off at a Dorothy DLC, but given how much Fairy Tales are involved in this Souls-like, a girl getting Isekai’d in a dream sounds like you could make some wild environments and enemies. Also, maybe a Big O Dorothy to tie in the machine-human analogy?
@@mdbattlefrog1913 I think it’s possible to make a DLC if you follow The Wizard of Oz setting. It would basically be a 3 chapter arc with 3 additional zones. The first part would be the village of tiny puppets being attacked by a witch puppet enemy as the boss, the golden brick road witch would be filled with monsters and NPC allies (Lion, Strawman, and A LITERAL TINMAN puppet) that need to make it to the Emerald City Zone to battle the “Man behind the Curtain” boss.
In regards to the whole puppet frenzy thing. We know that Ergo is basically human souls and memories as a form of energy that can be crystallized, we also know that Ergo seems also capable of granting wishes under the correct circumstances albeit the explanation is vague (I mean Ergo also manipulates time so it’s not out of the question). With that said, it could be that Geppetto possibly went insane in his grief over his son dying and, armed with the knowledge of how Ergo works as well as his craftsmanship and insight on probably everything that goes on in Krat (including the Alchemists and how Sophia is being used by them), Geppetto waited for the Grand Exhibition to take place so that not only could the people of Krat be attacked, but also visitors as well, where they can be killed and used to farm huge amounts of Ergo because we know it’s not only the bosses who’s Ergo is extracted but also just about any Ergo in the environment as there’s different concentrations of it. Geppetto, as the craftsman of the puppets, was in the best position to know all sorts of things because of the role he would play in Krats society. He also made Romeo king of the puppets without Romeo or any of the puppets knowing it as a way of maintaining secrecy so that he’s not exposed with law 0 possibly being a hidden law unknown to both humans and puppets, only Geppetto. Part of me thinks that Carlo’s death was between the creation of the first puppet (the nameless puppet) and the creation of the Grand Covenant because it’s known that in the world of Lies of P, the Adventures of Pinocchio, or at least a variation of the fairy tale, exists that seems to have inspired Geppetto to create the puppets which is supported by Gemini’s dialogue. This of course meant that Geppetto spared little time for his actual son Carlo who grew to resent Geppetto for it as he would become a Stalker and then die by some unknown causes (possibly killed by Arlecchino) with Geppetto possibly making his plot to revive Carlo around the time the Grand Covenant was created as he implants law 0 into it. Geppetto then creates Pinocchio in preparation for this night as he knew that once all hell broke loose, there wouldn’t be time or safety to make a puppet like Pinocchio who will go out, fight, collect Ergo, and experiences in an effort to prepare the heart for a revived Carlo. He also probably gambled on Sophia awakening him because he possibly knows of her abilities thanks to the Alchemists, or he assumed that given enough time, the Ergo in the environment would awaken him. The reason why I say that he gambled on Sophia awakening Pinocchio as well as Sophia in general is because Geppetto seems to know a lot about the Alchemists so it makes sense if he knew about Sophia and what she could do The puppets going crazy and acting wild could be a result of the contradiction formed by law 0 conflicting with the other grand covenant laws
I'm uncertain if Carlo died or the nameless puppet came first. It's boss drop says that it was his first attempt at a p-organ puppet, but wasn't chosen as the body for Carlo bc, "...it's ergo efficiency was not just unremarkable, it was destructive..." The "good boy" ending where you let gepetto take your heart has him pull it out and then shows a new body for Carlo in the end. My guess is nameless was his first prototype, and while Pinnochio was the beta model made to fight and collect ergo, he was never meant to be the final, completely indistinguishable from human, product. Little did he know that he had already succeeded with Pinnochio. He may be hardly recognizable as Carlo by the time he became fully human, but he did manage to do so over the course of the story, all by himself. With the help of Sophia's time rewinding powers that ensured he could keep trying without being perma destroyed of course 😂 cause buddy gets folded many times over before he gets there. As another layer on top of that, it seems like the true ending sets up that ALL of that was set in motion by the shadowy organization that Paracelsus(Giangio) is speaking to. They seem to be some higher authority that seeks to grow their ranks by creating new immortals, and however they have to accomplish that, they'll do it clearly. The neat part is it seems the way these immortals are created are based upon real world fairy tales that seem to exist as stories in the in-game universe as well.
@@sixft_under it’s strange how the Nameless puppet becomes the body for the new “Carlo” (there’s plenty of reason to believe that Geppetto didn’t truly want to revive Carlo as he originally was but wanted to “revive” Carlo as the son he always wanted him to be which was no different than an obedient puppet that would happily slaughter at his behest). I think that since Geppetto was so obsessed with the story of Pinocchio, he really tried to recreate the character in their world as much as possible but of course, with twists to substitute for the obvious things the “real world” lacks. Such as full on magic from a mystical blue fairy that can make wood come to life. Obviously that wouldn’t be possible in the “real world” so Geppetto substitutes it with machinery and Ergo as a fuel source while also probably tossing some human flesh/skin in there (I mean look at that grotesque thing, it’s decayed human flesh and blood) to help with the “real boy” aspect. It’s possible that once word got out about his work to people like the Alchemist (and subsequently the secret organization that probably controls the Alchemists) Geppetto went from some slightly mad scientist performing some experiments to building robotic machines called puppets that would create a golden age for Krat though the production of such puppets had to have some changes in Geppetto’s original blueprints (like no decayed human skin and flesh as well as probably less complex system to save cost and efficiently produce which resulted in the lack of a P-organ) this however resulted in, again, him having no time for Carlo and eventually, Carlo’s death pushed him to become a full on mad scientist and sociopath who was willing to initiate the puppet frenzy to start the process of reviving Carlo. I guess we can note that Geppetto’s plans and the Alchemist (and secret organizations) were all separate but seem to collide and align for a time once the puppet frenzy began. Geppetto wanted to gather Ergo to revive his son while making the Puppet that’ll help him do that amass experience. The Alchemist wanted to collect Ergo and evolve. And the secret organization wanted to see a new form of immortality and/or humanity form through the Alchemist though ended up being surprised by what Pinocchio ended up developing into, which is a sort of Puppet/Human hybrid. They all had their own goals and desires but the whole puppet frenzy incident sort of helped their goals align for a bit which was collecting Ergo and witnessing the changes that will come with it. It’s interesting to note how this secret society seems to be targeting, or are involved with, incidents are fairy tales becoming real or at least being replicated/manifested in the “real world”. This game was all about the story of Pinocchio occurring in a world where Pinocchio is already a fairy tale story, and now we will be seeing the Wizard of Oz occur with Paracelsus possessing a Wizard of Oz book. It’s almost as if this organization is seeking out or hunting down fairy tales that become real. We already know through in-game items like the spirit summoning rocks that wishes are something that can actually sort of come true in this world through possibly the use of Ergo. And since Ergo can be in the very air itself, perhaps the explanation is that fairy tales can become real (albeit altered and changed to fit the world) in this reality once the desire and wish is strong enough for it to occur and so a phenomenon happens where reality seems to make it so that the fairy tale happens but with a twist and this organization potentially knows all about this. Geppetto and multiple other people in Krat read the story of Pinocchio and, once his and possibly their desires and wishes for it to be real or belief in it became strong enough, fate and reality made it so that the fairy tale could come true. Next thing people knew, robotic puppets were real and made by a guy named Geppetto (it may not be his real name as some people said), a girl with special powers related to the mystical energy source of Ergo that also has blue hair was born, vigilante groups began wearing masks that signified different animals which coincidentally reflected animal characters from the fairy tale, and lying became a big deal in Krat. There’s obviously changes due to the circumstances that keep it from being one to one but one can see how the fairy tale seemingly came into reality though suspiciously Pinocchio is never once actually called Pinocchio and some people have theorized that it’s because he will also play the role of the tin man from Wizard of Oz, signifying his return.
@wizardwolf1020 @wizardwolf1020 oh shit! Bc the tin man wanted a heart! So you think he put the heart into the nameless puppet and that's the new Carlo we see at the end? It seems like he puts the heart with the box that nameless is in, but he has to go through some major alterations to end up looking so human in the end unless we chalk it up to ergo magic. If that's what it is, a case could maybe be made for those grotesque fleshy looking parts only being present on nameless bc it's made up partially of Carlo's dead body. I don't think any descriptions say it was the first puppet Gepetto EVER made, just the first p-organ puppet he made, but I could be wrong. I tried looking up lines and descriptions, but only found the quote I had mentioned before in relation to being "first". It could be that Carlo we see at the end is a result of Carlo's dead body mixed with puppet parts(nameless), and a magic ergo heart, forming Gepetto's perfect son. One who does exactly what he's told like a good boy. It's unfortunate Gepetto went crazy bc he clearly did love his son. I wonder how much the secret organization made happen, bc the interests aligned yea, but Paracelsus refers to it as "the Krat experiment" as if they were pulling all the strings or at least did things to push everything in a certain direction. Not entirely related, but what do you make of the trinity rooms? I can't decide who the trinity is supposed to be, bc they seem like meeting places for 3 certain individuals but idk who exactly. I know we find Arlecchino in the last one, but it seems like he just has the keys to the rooms bc he's broken into all of them, and wants you to see them too. He leaves those messages in blood on the wall of each one until it seems like he finally got caught in the last one, and somebody really fucked him up bad. Not sure who beat him up either, and since it's in the alchemist stronghold it could've been any number of strong people, including ones we haven't met. They put his ass INTO the damn wall and just left him there broken
@@sixft_under Geppetto seems to actually be a controlling person that often guises as a good one which fits with the whole “lie” thing the game has going on. We can see it through the game as while he tells us to be a good boy and listen to him like any parent would say, it really turns out manipulative in the end when you consider the context of the ending. There’s also how the whole puppet stuff and control seems to mess with his view on people as he considers reviving his own son properly as not only making him part puppet at least while just having his memories, but also having his son do whatever he tells him to do. It’s controlling and manipulative, and screams that he lacks genuine human understanding which is fits his whole puppet/robot obsession. He seems to be a guy that was too engrossed in his own work and obsessions to give his son the love and attention he needed and when Carlo died, rather than accept and come to terms that he completely failed as a father who had missed his chance, Geppetto tries to fix it by not only “reviving” Carlo but also making him “better” by having him be at least part puppet and doing everything he says. The moment Geppetto even decided to make that alteration, that, “he’ll be better like this.” Was the moment he went from trying to bring back what he lost to defiling his sons memory by basically making something new off of his sons remains because that wouldn’t be the true Carlo anymore, it would be something else, and it shows that he may not have loved Carlo in the end for who he was but what he was and what that meant, his son. As for Paracelsus and “the Krat Experiment”, like I said, the Alchemists seem to be either a group the secret organization founded and controlled through the shadows, or infiltrated and manipulated to be used as the means to pull off the Krat experiment, because the organization seems really tied to them in ways like “immortality” “humanity” “the arm of god”, etc. so it could be that the whole Petrification disease experiments and what came of them was planned by Paracelsus and the organization, but things like the puppet frenzy and Pinocchio were unknowns that ended up working for them in the end as they both got their new form of immortality and humanity and plan to retrieve the arm of god. The Trinity rooms may either be places that spies of the organization placed in different groups of Krat like the Stalkers, Workshop, and Alchemist could go to and meet up to have meetings and make reports, or it’s a place where members of the Trinity that makes up Krat (I forget what made up the Trinity but I know it includes the Alchemists and maybe the Workshop) can meet and sort of act as a secret society that controls all of Krat from the shadows
Gepetto being the villain reminded me of the comic Fables (of which The Wolf Among Us is a video game adaptation) in which Gepetto basically becomes the evil emperor due to people asking him to replace troublesome monarchs etc. with puppets which of course he ultimately controls he also captures the blue fairy and drains her to fuel his puppets
Words can’t describe how proud I am of how much progress you’ve made since our time, from sitting together in a Bloodborne session trying to find the motivation to record as little baby channels, to over 300,000 people watching your analysis and reviews. Absolutely insane man, would love to catch up sometime.
I played through both NG+ and NG++ and I think there's something worth mentioning it: The District of Malum is very important. Not just because it was the place Carlo and Romeo grew up and meet eachother alongside getting to know this "legendary Stalker" who we don't know much about, but also where most of the Alchemists, Stalkers and Tinkerers in Krat got their education through the Charity House (aka Rose Estate), founded by the Monad family's matriarch Valentinus, Sophia's father and fiancé of Lady Isabelle. One day however, an unknown incident struck Rose Estate, which not only took the life of Valentinus, but possibly Romeo's and Carlo's as well. Whatever this incident was, it was quickly covered by the city's authorities over the pretext of "preventing chaos caused by the large-scale spreading of the Petrification Disease." If this is incident did happened, then Rose Estate is, essentially, the place where everything was set into motion, from Simon taking over the Alchemists after Valentinus' death to Geppeto's whole scheme for bringing Carlo back. It's also possible that Romeo was an attempt of Geppeto testing with Ergo to see if he could bring Carlo back, which would explain how Romeo was able to retain his memories and break free from the Great Covenant, much like "P", but knew he had to stop the Alchemists and Geppeto's scheme after Romeo himself realized the Covenant was flawed due to Law Zero (as stated in the Ergowave recordings during late game.)
It's probably easier for puppets that were once human to develop an ego i.e. Pinocchio and Romeo, since it does say they grew up together in the monad boarding school before the accident.
@braxinIV I'm not certain but I'm pretty sure there were a couple plot point that happened around the same time that are seperate from each other, Simon caused the outbreak to happen to try and get rid of valintinus(previous alchemist leader) because he didn't agree with how they wanted to obtain immortality. Carlo dies in this outbreak and Geppeto with Simon and I'm sure it was venini made the puppet commandment to try and keep them in control and imprisoned arlechino to study his ego much like camille the first puppet to develop an ego.
I think the "Legendary stalker" is Isabelle Monad. It gives her a reason to be at the monad charity house, why Carlo and Romeo want to learn from her (She tell Gemini to get rid of them), and when you first start the game and pick up Gemini you receive "Monad's lamp".
@villainking420 so i looked into monads lamp and I don't think it is an exclusive item, I think Gemini is unique but not the lamps themselves. Isabelle monad and her husband founded the charity house, while the husband(i.e. valintinus monad) was a teacher at the house. I'm not sure if she is the legendary stalker or not, or how Gemini ties back to her.
Its a misconception that you get the best ending by lying, its actually by having enough humanity. You can increase your humanity by showing kindness, pray, and listening to music, you will feel warmth if successful . You can see your humanity meter by looking at your nose at carlo's portrait.
You wont get enough humanity without lying Even if you get and play every possible record, pray to the obe winged angel, give sophia peace, and refuse gepetto You will need to lie at least 50% of the time to get the required humanity (the endings requirement is slightly lower than the requirement to get the golden lie)
Beat the game a few hours ago with lying throughout the game, then saying no to Geopetto at the end. They threw in so many boss fights at the end if you pick all the proper options 😂 and the tapping of Dorothy's heels at the end opens up this multidimensional universe they got going on. It wasnt mentioned much in the game, but with the specters coming from a separate dimension, they have soooo much room to expand on lore.
Just wondering - regarding Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz, could we as Pinocchio be “the tin man”? We spent the whole game building our heart with it being the main focus of the ending.
There’s A LOT of parallels that point to it. But I am hoping the Tin Man is his own character in the sequel, with Pinocchio making a cameo as proof that you can grow a heart.
That's exactly what I said. Since we weren't directly called pinocchio, we can merge into that world very easily. Because we basically have the story of the Tin Man
If Paracelsus at the end is who I think it is, then I think Ergo is very deeply tied to the Philosophers stone. And if you think about it and look back it makes a lot of sense as well.
Time travel, a link to the human soul, an exchange and needing to use humans to make it, possible to grant wishes, potential for immortality, and transumtative properties? Yep that checks out.
What's the biggest mystery of the game is where the hell did Simon get his hat when he's transforming into a god. I mean, unless the hat also mutated, he has a big ass hat he uses in his first phase fight.
@Gingy I was under the assumption Gepetto did the Frenzy in order to slow Manus master plan and collect enough ergo for Carlo’s revival. You didn’t really mention this but Sophia is suggested to be the former Head Alchemist(Vincenzo/Valdinnis) daughter who is supposedly dead before the events of the game. Paracelsus and the remaining Alchemists in his faction seem to have solely focused forcing the evolution of mankind into immortal beings Dorothy being referenced as a “key” ties back into what Manus was getting at. The arm is most likely the god arm Pinocchio has gotten from manus to perform another “evolution”. I strongly suspect Manus, Sophia, and Paracelsus were all products of Valdinni’s experimentation process to achieve this goal
An interview back in August (I think) revealed that the devs were already getting prepped for a dlc. They mentioned that they unfortunately had to cut some worldbuilding and lore due to pacing issues, and that the dlc is where the extra story will be put into use. Lies of P is far from a perfect game, but I’m very impressed with its polish considering this is their first ever foray into AAA gaming. Thanks for covering this game.
Imagine a game series of the princesses and other main characters from kid's fairy tails, never imagined in my life anticipating for such games but if they are like Lies of P then im all for it.
@@keenza73 soma was one of my favorites , bioshock aswell .. there are a cpl i haven't got to watch yet but they give me a lot of insight on series i haven't played before but would take me ages to play through or even watch a playthrough of , aswell as give better explanation than a lot of "story explained " videos on yt . Truly a Great channel , glad i found it :D
Lies of P is such a good game, story is interesting, combat is hard but satisfying. I honestly think this game will be in the conversation up there next to Fromsoft when comparing other souls-Bourne games. Cos i have no doubt other souls likes will take stuff from Lies of P just like they take Dark Souls mechanics.
Nah, this is like Code Vein. Cheap rip off of Bloodborne with unpolished combat and bad mechanics that no other game will try, but like Code Vein at least the story is good.
@@Kumire_921 i understand your feeling, i also felt the same thing before just like you, no other company can make souls game like Formsoftware, if so they will never on par or better.. but Lies of P prooven wrong and i, till today, still learn to accept this truth.. its the best souls game out there so far, or atleast this year.. This game make Morthal Shell, which developed by AAA game studio, like fanmade souls game. Its not perfect but its obviously not bad or unpolished. They fixed everything souls borne from Fromsoftware have like: 1. The confusing side-quest location and story deliver with marking icon on teleporting device and language they use is easy to understand (like it doesn't use art', thou' or some confusing language like that, just straight forward). 2. Unlimited repair powder with grinding mechanic. 3. Perfect guard instead of parry that give player more accurate timing bcuz, IMO, parrying in soulsborne is worse bcuz you need to matching the animation of your parry with animation of enemy attack which is annoying. In this game, perfect guard is almost instant animation which give player the advantage bcuz they don't need to worry about their parry animation, just have to focus on enemy attack animation. Oh don't forget about making the parry window larger by holding the guard and tapping when the attack lands. 4. Souls/Ergo placed outside of boss room if you die, this is so good. 5. Optional boss can actually be skipped after getting inside the boss room, no barrier that block you to skip this, like Puppet of Future, the clown boss, and others. 6. You can't running around hitting NPCs, its also so good bcuz this actually problem in soulsborne bcuz it can messed up some questline or even locked the feature/story progression/weapon/equipment/etc in the rest of the run. 7. The handle and blade combination fixing problem where when you find a new weapon in soulsborne but don't have the material to upgrade it. In this game you can swap the blade with the upgraded one bcuz the moveset determined by the handle. 8. Performance, almost no bug or FPS problem whatsoever even with laptop with 3060 graphic card on high settings. No FPS cap either (bloodborne problem). Its just in my opinion tho,
The Puppet Frenzy is easily explained, it's established that Ergo comes from people, specifically the dead. The purpose of the Puppet Frenzy was to kill off as many people as possible. And then he let Simons plan play out because he knew it would syphon an enormous amount of Ergo to his tower. Ergo he could use to bring life to the first Puppet. Alternatively P kills Simon and then his Heart can be used to directly power it using the Ergo obtained from Simon. He kinda had all this figured out.
Antonia mentions the tree if you talk to her immediately after opening the door. I didn't realise this till NG+. She explains that the Tree was the source of the deal between the hotel and the alchemists and a large part of its wealth came from this trade deal. however after a while the alchemists started murdering each other over the coins and in disgust she sealed the doors to the tree and set the defences of the hotel to kill any alchemists that entered the hotel without permission which is why she didn't bother doing anything about the secret entrance since the alchemist couldn't get in anyway (until fake Alidoro f@##$ it up) shes extremely annoyed to find out the Black rabbits were stealing them to give the alchemists anyway so gives you permission to use the tree since shed rather you use it than anyone else. In ng + the decoded Puppet dialogue reveals Romeo was trying to get the puppets to protect the humans though we don't know how much actual control he had and if he was only partially getting it to work or if he could only control a few puppets at a time. I think Simon's writings are meant to imply his father was LIKE a god to him not that he was a literal god.
It would be cool if you could side with Romeo on an NG+ play though once you can understand what the puppets are saying but I get that that’s like developing a whole second game to add a completely different quest path
i'm not sure if i'm right here, but it seemed heavily implied that Carlo was killed by the original puppet killer, this then being covered up by the alchemists sends Geppetto into a spiral, first he creates the laws for the safety of the people, but then he recreates his son we know that peoples Ego can become awakened through experiences similar to when they were alive, and what is the one thing we know about Carlo? (in this theory) he was killed, fighting a puppet so what if Geppetto's rampage was all so that Pinocchio's Ergo could awaken it's Ego by reliving the final moments of his life, over, and over again, same experiment, expecting different results, insanity, and only after his son is reborn (bad end) will he focus on cleaning up the mess he made for the sake of his revival it'd even explain why Romeo was made the king of puppets, the best chance at getting his son back, confronting him with both his worst moment (dying in a fight with a puppet) and his best memories (playing with his closest friend)
That would be an interesting scenario! It seems like the really hard thing to address is why our protagonist puppet was sitting there turned off. If he needed him to fight, why leave him just sitting there alone in the dark?
@@Eladelia my guess is he's a prototype, Pinocchio doesn't have the laws implanted into him, so it might be he was only ever a practice model, a proof of concept. When Geppetto finished his prototype he gets to work on the fully realized body, which is the body he had ready in the bad ending Sophia is the one to activate him, with a sort of a spark of life, something he returns to her in the good ending, so it might be what got him to work in the end In addition it would explain why Geppetto isn't willing to talk as much when we first meet him, he just sees the prototype of his sons body walking around, so he sends him on an errand to see if he's actually capable, only the being willing to talk to Pinocchio
Whether or not you lie or tell the truth has a lot more consequences than you'd think. There are a lot of rewards that are locked behind specific dialogue options, especially records (which could make the difference between which of the 3 endings you get and whether you get the Golden Lie). But yeah, there definitely are consequences for which options you choose, they just don't present themselves unless you play through again and choose the other option. For instance: When you meet the Atoned, you get the option to either give the stalker's greeting or to do nothing. If you give the Stalker's Greeting (the Lie option), you can avoid having to fight her (to be fair, you can return after killing the Archbishop if you'd still like to fight her). If you choose to do nothing, you're forced to fight her before you're able to progress. While the consequences might not be too detrimental, there are definitely drawbacks to what options you choose other than how it affects the ending.
First of all, fantastic video. Really enjoyed the thorough explanation on the events of the game. Well articulated and delivered! Great job. That being said, I stumbled upon a comment that really irked me the wrong way: at 9:42 he says something along the lines of ''sadly, the game does not let us explore freely and it's a more linear experience going level to level in a sequence'' and I am here sitting thinking: does every single game in existence _have_ to be open world? Why can't games be smaller and more focused like this one? I truly don't understand that mentality and taste. Perhaps it's the fact that in the lasy 10-15 years that's what people have been accustomed to getting from games. An over-saturated industry filled with open world games everywhere. That's the sad part.
I agree with you, but I think you're misinterpreting him a bit. I don't think he was lamenting that Lies of P isn't open world, just that it could afford to be a bit more flexible. Every single FromSoft soulslike allows the player to make certain choices on how they want to progress, while still gatekeeping late-game content for the most part. Lies of P is 100% linear; this makes it a lot easier to balance, but limits player options. I don't think this additional freedom would have impacted the story at all, but it would have been more work to implement cleanly, which is probably why they decided against it despite copying FromSoft's homework in every other area.
Victor, in appearance and name, clearlly refers to Victor Frankenstein, which is basically a Pinocchio-like if you squint a little, and conceptually is closer in plot to the game. I presume the reason the good doctors name is used is because keep confusing the name ‘Frankenstein’ with the monster, and that the implication of the novel is Victor is the real monster. Here, he’s both.
I could very well be wrong here, but the take-away by the end of my first playthrough was that Gepetto was working with Simon and the alchemist's (if not one himself, at least an ally). When the Alchemist's had gotten all that they could out of Gepetto's research into Ergo as a power source for the puppet's they turned him out from the tower, cutting off his access to the massive stockpile of Ergo has was going to need to revive Carlo (and possibly also the puppet body he was going to use, since nowhere did I see him carting that massive crate around with him). As a result he awakens the puppets, unaware even with his knowledge of Ergo that puppets can spontaneously regain their memories of humanity, as evidenced by Romeo, Arlecchino, Polendina, Pulcinella, and the original nanny puppet that saved the baby falling from the crib. Gepetto needs an army to take the tower back from Simon. Romeo, seeing what Gepetto's final plan is for P/Carlo, and emboldened by the fact that each puppet is essentially a dead person enslaved to a machine body, sparks the uprising and massacre, and we start the game at this muddled state of affairs. Once P/Carlo wakes up Gepetto no longer needs the rest of the puppets, and his purpose was never to harm the rest of Krat, so he has P/Carlo go after Romeo to stop him, aware that Carlo will be absorbing all of the Ergo he'll need to fuel the hearts reawakening of his son along the way
Nice one. I'm pretty sure the petrification disease comes from Kroud, which is referred to as a mineral that absorbs ergo spores from the air in an alchemist note you find, and is probably the big rock spires you find breaking through the world in the collapsed parts of the city later in the game. It's likely what was being mined for the ergo in the first place, and Ginago/Paracelcus is part of something called the Order of Kroud. Intriguing stuff. Also, a minor point is that there's no indication in the game that we are actually playing as Pinocchio, nobody ever refers to our character by that name and there's a book in the hotel that Gemini comments on that seems to be the actual Pinocchio story, that was beloved by someone Gemini can't quite remember, likely Geppetto.
Something that i think is worth mentioning; When we arrive at the beach of the Arche Abbey, we get to see all the memories with Carlo and Romeo. From the dialogue, it seems that Romeo and Carlo were living together in said charity house, Romeo because he did not have parents and Carlo because his father did not give a flying fuck about him. So what Geppetto does seems more like he does it because he doesnt want to lose something thats ”his“ rather than actually giving a shit about the life that was lost.
While I do agree that Geppy probably wasn't the best father to Carlos, I will argue that he most likely genuinely regretted being like that to Carlos after Carlos died. Someone who only saw children as property wouldn't go out of their way to recreate a perfect replica of their child.
I know that I'm late to the comments but there were a few things that seemed very explicit to me during my playthrough that wern't clear to Gingy so I thought I'd share. Specifically, let's talk Gepetto and his motivations for inciting the puppet frenzy. When Carlo died, Gepetto was overcome with grief and his mourning pushed him to the brink of madness. In his quest to find a solution to fill the void his son's absence left in his life, he looked to unconventional solutions that included dealings with corrupt alchemists. The Alchemists had already begun to uncover the true nature of Ergo being human souls and memories made tangible in crystalline form. Simon wanted to amass a massive amount of Ergo to become a god. Gepetto played along with this plan but had ulterior motivations all along. When we first meet Gepetto in game, the Mad Donkey expressly calls out Gepetto not just for building the puppets responsible for the frenzy but for conspiring with alchemists, and he isn't wrong about this either. The way I see it, while Simon Manus was drunk on his delusions of grandure, Gepetto was playing puppet master, manipulating him while all along he intended to orchestrate a massacre so big in scale that thousands, if not millions of human lives would be cut short all at once, creating an explosion of concentrated Ergo powerful enough to potentially ressurect his son Carlo. To enable this, he embedded what amounts to an override command in the form of law 0 in the grand covenant then forces the puppets to slaughter all of the humans in attendance at the Grande Exibition. Simon would've thought this was just a step towards advancing his aspirations while in reality, Gepetto only wanted one thing. This is the real reason for puppet frenzy. Gepetto wanted his son back, no matter the cost, even if that cost was paid in blood. He intentionally orchestrated the deaths of countless others as a means to accuiring the power source needed to bring Carlo back. He couldn't bear a world without his son in it and he blamed himself for Carlo becoming a stalker, which led directly to his son's death.His mourning became obsession and his obsession led to insanity. Clearly he took things too far but then again, what parent wouldn't do what ever it takes to save their child? The rest of Krat and the world be damned.
I adore the ADD of this analysis. Something interesting comes up, it's talked about and we'll eventually get back to the plot. Great job, and very easy and satisfying watch.
One thing that I found that was missed is that The Nameless Puppet is a person that had their brain surgically removed. The only evidence of this is that a lot of its design highlights that it bleeds red,which wouldn't be significant but the game makes it very clear that only humans bleed red. Puppets bleed oil, carcasses bleed blue, but people have crimson blood. On top of that, they go out of their way to make a cutscene where it's skull gets cut open revealing that it had its brain removed and that it's left arm isn't it's original one. I think it would be fitting if this was Carlo's original body that Geppetto tried to reanimate using ergo but it very likely isn't. At the very least it confirms he wasn't above human experimentation, putting him in leagues with the Alchemists, and that makes a lot more fall into place. If he was an Alchemist he'd know about Sophia and by making a puppet unbound to The Grand Covenant during a cataclysm, he could assume she'd guide him to successfully stopping the Frenzy and Manus, all the while gathering a TON of ergo along the way. He couldn't have just kept the ergo for him self, the other alchemists would've stopped him for being greedy and he couldn't use The Nameless Puppet, since it only knew hatred. The Frenzy solved both of those problems since by helping people, Pinocchio learned to show love and compassion and by stopping puppets, gathered ergo (ie Dark Souls 2's story).
I think the puppet frenzy accomplishes everything Geppetto wanted to achieve In order for Geppetto to revive his son with all the qualities of a human, he needed Ergo to power P’s golden heart. He knew this ergo could not be obtained quickly without notice or question. He needed a conflict to emerge which would put the city in jeopardy, distracting everyone so the ergo could be collected, even if the means were violent. Given Geppetto had control of the puppets with law 0, What better conflict than the puppet frenzy. Creating the puppet king, organizing the puppets to kill humans, corralling all the ergo in the city to a few places for P to clear serves as the perfect scenario for Geppetto. Not to mention, he needed to give P a reason to hunt the puppets and petrificated zombies for ergo. The puppets mindlessly killing people without reason makes for a good cause to destroy them, much more to destroy the king himself. You don’t need to have a good understanding of ergo to break the puppets, you are doing it for the common good.This along with the strength of quartz and the constant encouragement to end the crisis further proves this theory. With P collecting Ergo from the crisis to bolster the hearts energy without qualm makes for a good scheme wouldn’t you say Though I will say I don’t think Geppetto expected Simon Manus to take over the crisis as he did, hence why he was suprised and genuinely interested in ending the petrification disease. Makes you wonder what type of stuff Geppetto actually thinks about. He will sacrifice millions for his son but will save another million for the good of Krat. He will kill someone in cold blood but mourn unrelated deaths. How does he truly weigh decisions and morales.
but, the puppets were actually helping people, well at least normal people. they were only attacking petrified monsters. so why does geppetto want us to destroy the only line of defense krat has?
the main lesson I took from this game is that Carlo's judgment of his father was 100% spot on. I mean, he took apart Carlos mother after letting her die, fucking hell.
@@fruits050 I know I am like a few months late but this is what I know from the game. Geppetto didn't originally make the puppets to kill people, he made the puppets to help others, which was way before Carlo passed away. When Carlo passed away, that's when he realized he could bring him back with a ton of Ergo, hence the creation of the P Organ and starting the frenzy, to collect as much Ergo as possible from people of Krat. As for the last line of defense, they puppets were the last line of defense because Geppetto put Romeo in charge, he made him the king of puppets and so the puppets are all under his command. That's why the puppets are keeping the Petrification monsters at bay and when Romeo dies, they come out, because Romeo was using the power he had to keep as many people safe (those that are still alive at least) as possible. Geppetto still wants Pinocchio to kill the puppets and the last line of defense for the Ergo. He needs a lot of it to bring his son back, as that's what gives people life, it's their soul and personality. So he creates a P organ, which collects Ergo, starts a frenzy, kills a ton of people, sends P in there to collect it all. As for why he has us kill Romeo, I believe (and this is just theory) it was to use him as a scapegoat. Geppetto is easily the type of person to mess up and blame everyone else. His son dies, he blames it on everyone else but himself, he starts a frenzy, what better way to not take responsibility then blame it on the King of Puppets himself. So he send P over to Romeo, tells him he is the reason the frenzy happens, and Romeo tries to tell him something different. Romeo falls, the frenzy somewhat stops and there's less puppets, but now there are petrification monsters. What do Petrification monsters still have, Ergo, because they used to be people that were experimented on by the Alchemist. Now there is even more Ergo to be collected, he has P make his way up the tower, and he gets the Arm of God, the only other ingredient that can bring his son back, plan is complete and no one suspects a thing. Geppetto doesn't care who he hurts or kills, as long as he gets what he wants, and what he wants is not just his son, but an obedient version of his son that would do anything he asks. This is all just what I got from the game and other videos I have seen so I can easily be wrong, but this is what I think is the reason for everything
I thought that the Frenzy was a result of Geppetto ordering the Puppets to fight against the Petrification Plague, but the problem is that people tend to be infected before symptoms develop, so the Puppets wound up eliminating a huge portion of a densely populated city. I thought that the plague was released by the Alchemists as a way of creating more Ergo, which, as you pointed out, was how they believed that they could achieve immortality; and Giangio was probably the mastermind (if not simply an invested observer) of this plot to try to create an Immortal Fable.
this checks out but why were we killing the puppets tho? why would geppetto send us to kill the useful things? (useful as in, they are protecting people from petrification beasts)
@@fruits050 Geppetto didn't though. Sophia is the one that released us, and the other puppets attacked us because we were not bound by the Covenant, so we were automatically a target. Collecting the Ergo of other puppets, though, is something Geppetto wanted, because that is what made our P-organ (lol) strong enough to ressurrect his son.
Looks like theyre making a Dark Fairytale universe. Imagine having to fight a bunch of eldritch flying monkeys or something lol. A Grimdark Oz would be kind of cool
I think Simon and his actions make some sense when you imagine that he has known what everyone around him thinks. His father his friends geppeto no one’s secrets are safe and their lies are known wanting lies to disappear so he does have to experience this weird existence makes sense. He wants to become a god because he’s a narcissist lol.
I think that he would be more interesting if godhood wasn't in his motives but villain egotist got to villain i suppose. would have been more compelling if he just didn't want to hear their lies and live that way. Removing the ability to lie would be a much more interesting with that mindset.
@@henrypaleveda7760 He wants to make sure the ability to lie stays removed, even if people are "evolved", they may "evolve" the ability to lie again, he wants to nip that in the bud by becoming god and stamping it out if it arises again
Finished the game last night ! I’ll be honest I’m not really a fan of FromSoftware games or its cousins. But let me tell you: if Baldur’s Gate 3 and WH40K Rogue Trader weren’t released in 2023, Lies of P would have been my sleeper hit GOTY! That’s how much fun I had
have u tried Bloodborne or Sekiro ? if the mainline souls series (demon souls, dark souls trilogy, elden ring) is not your thing you should still give bloodborne and Sekiro a try cuz they feel wildly different especially Sekiro. and since u loved Lies of P i really think you will enjoy both of these games really well. give them a try
@@btchiaintkidding7837 thanks! I actually enjoyed Elden Ring, it was my GOTY. Sekiro was awesome and Bloodborne is a masterpiece just in art style alone! I’m one of the few who want a PC port
You postulated that the Arm of God might have been Simon's arm, but I don't think that's the case. In the post credits scene, right before Giangio mentions Dorothy, he says "besides, he's going to want his arm back", implying the God that the arm belongs to is associated with whatever organization Paracelsius belongs to. Also, I've seen it theorized that Paracelsius might be Peter Pan, because the letter he leaves you in the post game is signed "-P. P. "
Don’t think it’s Peter Pan. Got my money on him being The Mad Hatter. My guess is he’s gonna be a big deal in the next game, possibly starting as a helpful NPC and then growing crazier and crazier and being revealed as a baddie.
Late comment but one of the item descriptions mentions of an alchemist named “Phillipus Paracelsus”. I think it was one of the items you get from laxasia
Late to the party but a few things I noticed. 1: The description of the arm mentions a god that, one way or another tore themselves apart. I don't believe that describes Simon since we kill him ourselves. 2: Way back in the church there is a series of documents that imply that some sort of powerful relic was stolen from the alchemists, a relic so powerful that the archbishop could use it to drive the alchemists away from Krat. Looking at the designs for the monsters both the Archbishop and Simon turn into, there are a lot of similarities (humanoid torsos emerging from cagelike structures on their bodies) that would imply that the relic the archbishop stole was in fact the Arm of God, leading him to go through the same transformation Simon did. The only difference is that Simon planned to use his transformed self to absorb all the gathered Ergo, making himself a 'god'.
Geppeto is an evil mastermind, and he knew Simons plan all along. He also created the puppet and the p organ in advance since he was nowhere near you once you activate, AND he already had a use for the heart. The book by the piano in the hotel says that Pinocchio was actually the favorite book of the son of Geppeto, although the cricket says that he somehow can’t remember the name, and that is because Geppeto doesn’t want people to make the connection to P. But from that, it is safe to assume that P is not Pinocchio. Because Geppeto only started obsessing about Carlo after he died, and the book might have given him a fitting idea, it was his son’s favorite after all. He knew puppets were gaining personalities of people long past because of Arlechino and others that were becoming self aware.
Wizard of Oz is most probably a sequel rather than DLC. Might be interesting - a world of Souls like games where fairy tales are linked. Interpretations of monsters in those tales would be a sight to see.
This game is so good, like I haven’t felt this way about a souls like game since my first souls game in ds3. Legitimately one of the best games I have ever played
The reason the puppet frenzy occurs is answered in the "Become a real boy" ending, where after reviving Carlo, the next step is effectively restarting the frenzy. Geppetto's solution to the petrification sickness and ensuring Carlo's safety is to kill everyone and turn them into puppets. This makes more sense when, after that same ending, you get a loading screen tip revealing Carlo died from the Petrification disease. Also, I do find a lot of the criticisms about the alchemist's goal to 'create a world without lies' to be unfounded. The goal had little to do with wanting revenge from being abandoned but from the fact he could /read fucking minds/. He knew whenever someone he was talking to was plotting to betray him, or being dishonest, or tried to manipulate him. There was no giving them the benefit of the doubt that normal people do. As a result, he wanted to create a world where he wouldn't experience those lies and betrayal from everyone. Think about it. Most people have met someone in their life; a family member, a partner, a friend who just fucking lies all the time. Lies to the point where you know whatever they're saying is always a lie. Imagine if that person was LITERALLY EVERYONE
I think his motives make sense, but I think how they implemented it at the end makes him seem like typical bad guy at the end. He wants to stop lies, true but he also wants massive power and to become a god. Personally, I think the ending would fit a bit better if he just tried to use the power to make a new world and we fought some kind of manifestation of that power instead of him himself, but that’s just me.
I don't know if it's the same for everyone that's a massive fan of bloodborne and souls games, but this indeed scratched that itch for me in a very good way. There's stuff in this game that definitely needed to be ironed out some more, but I 100% agree to the sentiment that this is the best souls-like(not made by fromsoft) that's ever come out. The metacritic score doesn't even do this game justice. This is an 84-85 at least.
Few discrepancies. SPOILERS AHEAD 1. Lying *does* actually have an effect on some NPCs. Let's say you lie to the Atoned and perform the Stalker's Salute. At some point, returning will have her turn hostile when she figures out you're not actually a Stalker. Or at least, that's what happened to me. Furthermore, each lie you tell increase's P's Humanity level, which is crucial for determining whether you'll get the good or true ending, along with whether or not you granted Sophia's final wish and gave her peace, thus absorbing her Ergo. 2. The puppet's actual "name", so to speak, is P, according to the devs and artbook. 3. The man Geppetto worked with is more likely to have been Venigni's father rather than Venigni himself, or at least, that was the case at first. 4. The Alchemists *and* the Technicians made use of Ergo. The Alchemists are using it for biological enhancements, hence Simon Manus' pursuit of immortality. The Technicians, led by Geppetto, were using it to create automatons. 5. Geppetto very likely caused the Frenzy for two reasons. First, he needed to keep the Alchemists out of Krat until everything he needed (P, a sufficient amount of Ergo, etc) was in place. Second, Ergo is more easy to acquire by killing humans. The Frenzy was caused specifically to gather a massive quantity of Ergo. He asks P to stop Romeo because he needs a scapegoat, and he needs the Alchemists back in Krat to begin the final stages of his plan; in other words, Simon needs to use the Ergo-gathering properties of the Arm of God. 6. The real Stalker name of the man posing as Alidoro is "Parrot". The true Alidoro was Eugenie's brother, and both are implied to have come from "the land to the east", given the description of the Two Dragons Sword.
i just want to say that your retelling of the story and the highlights on the details were absolutely fantastic and everything i've ever wanted in lore videos. thanks for giving this game a go and making such a great video on it :)
I will point out the Parade Master at the beginning is meant to represent the Coachman from the story. Judging by his dialogue which mentions taking you to Toys Land (and his cage he carried to gather children). Toys Land or Pleasure Island is where Pinocchio becomes a literal jackass. It does make more sense since the dialogue is coming from Romeo. Again his friend from Toys Land. Another being a stalker who wears a weasel mask. In the story a pair of weasels trick Pinocchio to help em steal chickens. All while Pinocchio had to replace the owner’s guard dog.
30:08 I actually felt this. I thought that Sophia was somehow going to turn into a monster or something, or the following boss would be extremely powerful if I killed her (because I thought she was acting as interference for the Ergo consumption. Just strange ideas I guess.
Lying or not actually has some big effects. I didn't 'lie' to Julian the Gentleman, and so he killed himself, gave me a bloody wedding ring that I couldn't use to show to a certain butler, and lost both a reaction and a quartz for another mission because of it. Also, lying to a certain guard dictates whether you get her disk, and our resident weapon smith gives you a different record depending on what you tell them. Lies aren't pointless, and I had to play NG+ because I made a mistake on what lies to tell.
Really love your videos! Especially for the souls like games! I’m not a fan of games of this genre but I love the lore behind them. So I appreciate all of these! Keep up the great work!
Somehow, I felt soo much more emotion than any other Souls game. When they destroyed Hotel Krat, I felt genuine anger. I had fire in my eyes fighting the black brotherhood, and killed “Alidoro” without a second thought. And I even cried listening to Memory of Beach, that never happened to me before in a Souls game.
If you look closely, you will see that only the maiden puppet was weeping after puppet king died. This is because the original maiden puppet was actually the first puppet that was discovered with human emotions. The alchemists did many experiments on her and eventually mass produced her as a house maiden after, essentially, removing her emotion.
I'm thinking the alternate dimensions mentioned throughout Lies of P might play into Dorothy's story. The butterflies are supposed to exist in other dimensions, and I believe Simon's god-daddy also exists out-of-universe, so maybe Dorothy is transported to an "Oz" setting and has to fight her way through to make it back home. "There's no place like home," and all that jazz. (Really hoping it's a sequel but I'll be happy just to get more lore and story for this Universe, will purchase regardless!!!) Also wanted to point out I picked up something in-game that mentioned Krat is completely closed off to the outside world because the city was afraid its puppet technology would be stolen. It's the reason the Petrification Disease runs so rampant; doctors from outside struggle to get in to help. Makes me wonder what the rest of the world looks like or if there are other cities like it. Could be that the "Emerald City" setting is in-reality instead of extradimensional but is experimenting with those other dimensions. Could lend itself more to an eldritch or cosmic horror than steampunk vibe for the game, though our favorite Wizard is definitely a steampunk patriarch. The creators of Lies of P did a really good job writing this setting and gave themselves a lot of freedom to take the world(s) wherever they want!
lies of p is so damn good bro im so excited for the next game, its become second place in my top 3 and i cannot have asked for a better game. the combat is so fun and skillful and its everything i could have wanted.
If you replay the story you can see what the puppets garbled speech says, w Venigni’s Ergo Wave Length Decoder. Fuoco was saying stuff like, “we fight for humans” and “remember, you’re one of us”. From what I remember. Puppet Watchmen also talks about Tomas, and the other children.
Arlechinno is possibly a reference to Brau-1589, a robot from the manga Pluto (itself a reimagining of a story in Astro Boy). Brau was the first robot to murder humans and seemingly enjoy it, and was also pierced and disabled and locked away much like Arlechinno
Bro….. the sheer disrespect for venigni is criminal. Venigni is literally the most good hearted person in the game. Hes done everything he possibly could the protect and help the people, even at his own risk. Hes the biggest bro for P too. I CANNOT stand for this slander.
Quick correction at the 33 minute mark about Simon and the alchemists not being very present in the game until the end; you see Simon several times in cutscenes in the beginning stages of the game (such as the victory cutscene against the archbishop) and you also first meet him at the champion victor boss fight, where you also catch a short glimpse of laxasia. Otherwise, good video, enjoyed listening to it while playing.
Geppetto uses the puppet frenzy under false pretenses (telling the puppets they are purging petrification disease) when really he wants humans dead and replaced with puppets, as he has control over puppets. This is seen if you go back to the hotel before starting a new game and after choosing the ending where Carlo is resurrected. He wants this control so nothing can ever take Carlo away from him again. Geppetto’s whole motivation is born from selfishness and grief
This game absolutely deserves a franchise...I never thought it would turn out to being this good. Its far from perfect, but its heavily outweighed by its pros, and makes what I think to be the best souls-like game yet.
The idea of a fairy-tale extended universe of souls like games sounds more versatile than the original souls series if done right. Reminds me a little bit of how the Percy Jackson books started with the Greek Pantheon then brought in Roman, Egyptian, Norse myths to make a huge collage of personalities, power systems and how they all come together under a modern-day umbrella. Super super unique and just a badass concept
Simon is not a god, he is descended from one of the few people who survived the original blessings of the ‘Angel’ whatever it was, that gifted the survivors immortality. But he was considered a failure by his father, possibly because aside from reading minds, Simon was just a regular human in strength.
@@tianzhou1244dude, it's ✨fiction✨. Technical advancement is necessary in society. If it wasn't for the technical advancement, you wouldn't have this game
What I love is you learn a lot in ng+ all that static looking puppet talk? Yeah it gets turned clear. We learn through a speaker that the puppet king wants to defend the humans and has ordered the puppets to kill the monsters with the petrification disease. Which is likely why they were burning corpses. And the scrapped watchmen? He talks about children dying and blames us, he then says several names of children. Romeo actually speaks instead of needing to read subtitles. He has a unique voice. And upon death he thanks Carlo for true freedom.
Enjoyed the video and your explanation of it. I agree that it is pretty refreshing for a game to use a retelling of a well known story as a basis. Though it seems that the execution on building on that story could have been better. The aesthetics of the game was also a got my attention.
I love and appreciate the fact that the producers gave you an early access and you had no problem dismantling and stating the many negative aspects of the game, such as ripping off a certain game series.
Your confusion about the puppets frenzy comes from you not knowing what ergo is. Ergo is basically the souls of people, it contains their personalities and memories. Note that a person's ergo tends to scatter. When a puppet gains its ego, it's not totally complete - this is precisely the reason to why he needed the frenzy to happen. More death means more ergo. He needed to collect it and then, with the help of the Gods hand, selectively stitch Carlo's ergo back together. P in this story actually contains most of Carlo's ergo already, this is revealed during the final boss fight where Gepetto admits that P seems to have traits of his son's personality. In the end, P sheds a tear for his father, which basically tells us that Gepetto had his son with him all along. Missing memories is all that separated P from the real deal.
Also, to answer why Gepetto wanted Romeo's death (Carlo's best friend). He hoped to extract Romeo's ergo, which contained memories with Carlo. Romeo would be one of the most important puppets to kill actually.
@@WisperArtit make sense considering killing him is what makes P/Carlo more human something even Geppeto is surprised about it maybe he thought P was just a vessel for Ergo and his son memories but he never realize that puppet was actually Carlo until the very end maybe due to his ignorance of what Ergo is capable of
@@elektra8535 I have to say - I think the P organ is actually Carlo's s heart, just mechanized. That's why most of his ergo was there. And Gepetto was aware that the heart is the most important part. Carlo's entire body was mechanized (which is very disturbing to me). He experimented on his son's corpse while attempting to create his first puppet. But only after he became good at creating puppets, he made the P organ and separated it from Carlo's body. This is why I think that he actually knew that a lot of Carlo's essence was in P, he simply wasn't satisfied enough with his new son. A perfectionist that wanted to create the ideal copy of his son. At least, that's how I read his motivation.
You know, watching this video made me want to re-read the Pluto manga. The king of riddles is literally that robot stuck in the wall from the manga. If I’m getting it right, even tho Gepetto made all the puppets go crazy, the King still tried to make the puppets stop the alchemists?
Another implication with the Giangio end scene, given he is revealed to be Paracelsus, perhaps implying the real world Philliupus Paracelsus. Remember that when you go back to the tree to get more wish stones, the NPC has left, but leaves a note signed by P.P. So given that information I think "Lies of P" may not be referencing Pinnochio, but Paracelsus instead, and the Wizard of Oz teaser could be Lies of P 2 rather than DLC.
The item description for the Uroboros's Eye Weapon actually says this. "They say this weapon was handcrafted by a legendary Alchemist. Philippus Paracelsus was a legend even among the Alchemists".
Later in the video you said “Gappetto wants to revive his son, but how does the puppet frenzy accomplish that?” I think he wanted to bring more life into the puppets and it went horribly wrong. I think this ties in with his unprocessed grief for his sons passing, hence the creation of “P”
I don't think there's gonna be a Dorothy (wizard of Oz) dlc, but a full game. It's just amazing if you think about it. To have all those old of fairy tales in soulsborne style ❤ I hope Alice in wonderland is after wizard of Oz!
@@couchpotato5657 I think it has content enough for a full game... I think we will get a DLC related to that green stargazer (or maybe that's our ticket to Oz)
American McGee's Alice and Madness Returns set the bar pretty high tho... kinda hope for a dark rendition of Peter Pan maybe. There's a lot of material to work with there.
@@willianantunes8975 Maybe, makes me wonder more... but Green Stargazer makes me wonder for the EX weapons... If the intent is to continue the story or use the Green Stargazer, I don't know if there is enough of a Significant Release date for this one (Lies of P was released for the original story's 140 years, while the Land of Oz debuted in the year 1900, and I'm not sure if you can do a signficaint milestone FOR that setting itself without running into number thoughts)
The Wizard of Oz tie in is interesting. I wonder if each fairy tale will tie in with one of Dorothy's companions. This game had a metal man focusing on his mechanical heart. I wonder if next we'll skip to a Puss in Boots story or some other Cat themed tale for the cowardly lion and another about a bird themed character to be the scarecrow stand in. All coming together for Dorothy. Anyway, great analysis. Thank you.
Pinnochio and the tin man wouldn't really be consideredd the same IMHO. P needs a heart to become human, but the tinman was looking for a brain. 🧠 my prediction is that Dorothy would assume the role of P and the scarecrow, tinman, and lion would be NPC type characters like the ones in Hotel Krat. just a hypothosis
There is consequences to lies, there are rewards you miss out on from not lying, also I have had at least one character die because I choose to tell a truth instead of a lie. It can cause you to get a different ending as well, and miss out on a special weapon. Also in the after credits scene, hes clearly talking about the person the "arm of god" belongs to as well. Which means its likely they are the ones who put it there, which caused most of the issues.
The ending where you allow Gepetto to take your heart almost feels canon to the story. At the end where you hand your heart over you're a lonely boy in a mansion full of toys and servants to keep you company while your father is busy at work. The world outside the mansion is dangerous, so you just bide your time around the house. Or you sneak out to be a devious boy. However at the end the boy was able to inherit the powers of the Blue Fairy. And honestly? I wonder if restarting at the big star gazer to new game plus isn't just the boy being bored and turning back the clock. Who knows how many times he's redone the game.
This game reminds me of a Bloodborne/Sekiro mashup. It’s rough in some spots, like a bunch of bosses using the same animations but they just have different exteriors and not a lot of mob variety but for a first shot at a souls-like I think they knocked it out of the park. Way better than Thymesia, and the first Lords of the Fallen. Maybe wait for a sale if you’re on the fence, but definitely must play.
Not that I don't believe people should share opinions on things, but I watched this video for the full lore purely because I enjoyed the game enough to do so. The constant souls born comparison/jabs and personal opinions on what you thought was good and wasn't could have been cut back a bit.
If you read Red Fox's mask description it actually hints that she eventually figured out Black Cat wasn't her brother but she still loved him like family regardless. 😢
because whats a souls game that doesnt make you ugly cry at some point
Yeah, I did feel bad for killing black cat... but they tricked me twice and trashed the hotel... I loved that place...
@@ThatDudeCalled I still think sparing them is the fair option since despite helping the Black Rabbit Brotherhood trash the hotel and kidnap Geppetto, nobody in the hotel was hurt or killed.
The only one who really deserves it was the prick pretending to be Alidoro, like... killing your partner because you wanted more money out of their treasure hunts, then taking his identity and pretending to be him while still being a greedy asshole? Bastard deserved the stab in the gut I gave him.
@@ThatDudeCalledI personally only killed him because when he gave me the choice of giving him a coin in exchange to not fight I had ran out of coins
@@ThatDudeCalledthey were really growing on me honestly, when I got to Black Cat and I got a chance to spare him, his dialogue made me really sad, as I thought I would be forced to kill his sister.
I was so glad when I was able to spare her too.
Another thing that ties Lies of P to other fairy tales is when Gepetto says he commissioned the portrait of Carlo from D. Gray. Which *has* to be Dorian Gray who had a portrait of himself that aged instead of him.
And that kinda explains why Carlo was alive at all.
Ah. Gepetto is trying to make his son immortal like Gray. 😂
Gepetto also appears to be a bit disappointed when he sees you have grown to look more mature when P's hair grows.
So it's possible that, aside from immortality, he possibly could have commissioned the painting with the intent of specifically keeping Carlo a young boy forever. Which would be... pretty creepy. Paired with him constantly remarking about him wanting P to "stay a good boy" to him, it's certainly a viable reading, I think
I loved that touch. I made a joke when I saw the nose on the portrait that this was the portrait of Dorian Pinocchio and then I talked to Geppetto and flipped when he said it was commissioned by D Gray. So cool!
@@baugusbryson😅 you
Just so you know, the three taps Dorothy does at the end is to show that she IS the one from the Wizard of Oz. It's a direct line: "Tap/click your heels together three times and say 'there's no place like home.'"
That part really got me interested. Imagine a bunch of soulslike sequels that tackle different fairytale stories
@@grayjedioutcast3550 Could be really cool.
I wonder how they’re going to handle it, and what other potential stories could be done. I know wizard of oz has the tin man,
Trying to think of other classics, besides fairy tales, that are in the public domain...
@@christophertheofilos1063 game already has pseudo Frankenstein, although, he is not stitched together
I think I can explain why Geppetto did what: Simon's plans involved massive amounts of Ergo, but there are indications through documents and dialogue that indicate that the Ergo was running out, as the alchemists were delivering shipments of weaker Ergo over time. Both Geppetto and Simon's plans require massive amounts of Ergo, and there wasn't enough left for either of them, nevermind both. And where does Ergo come from? People. So, the frenzy was about getting enough Ergo to make the plan work.
Thanks for sharing the idea, it does make sense here.
If ergo is made from the dead? Then does that mean whoever is shipping them is effectively instigating mass murders/genocides?
@@karlbenito9992 The old Ergo was excavated from underground, before anyone knew what it was. However, as said above, that supply wasn't limitless and was running out. Once the Puppet Frenzy started, it's unlikely any more puppets were leaving the city
@@zououtexceptme7750 No problem. Of course, the real brilliance of Gepetto's plan is that it was basically a perpetual motion machine for obtaining Ergo.
Pinocchio's heart absorbs Ergo from anything he kills, whether puppet, monster, or human. Plus, since every time he dies, time rewinds due to the Blue Fairy's power, Pinnochio can obtain an effectively infinite amount of Ergo. While Manus' plan was basically to steal all of the Ergo available to power his plan, Geppetto banked on his creation being able to gain the Ergo of numerous timelines to make it work, as his plan appears to have required exponentially more Ergo than what Manus needed.
I think its the opposite, yes they both wanted ergo, but you can only get that from puppets not humans, geppetto started the frenzy to get humans to kill puppets and acquire ergo, Simon decided to double down on that by spreading the petrification disease which made the monsters able to have ergo within them so they could get ergo from him whether they died or killed puppets, humans civilians are, in my opinion, just casualties
I love how consistently bad a father Gepetto is shown. We get a sense of it through some item descriptions that Gepetto is an absent father always focusing on more important things. Also, props to the voice actor for making it seem like whenever he tells us that he cares for us and that we are precious to them, it always rang hollow. Then in the Happily Ever After ending, dude just up and left us all alone, off to do more of his own thing and leaving us with nothing but subservient puppetized version of the Hotel Krat crew.
I also love how the puppet versions aren't even good proxies. Like, he COULD stuff them into the puppets. But he can't even be bothered.
he’s locked up in a cell in the alchemist’s tower yet he has the key to the next area??? then he asks you if he’s trustworthy 💀💀💀
They are 100% setting up for a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen type scenario. Not only do we have Dorothy, the portrait of Carlo is literally painted by D.Grey. Which can only mean Dorian Grey. Also there is a nod to Sherlock Holmes, but this one could just be an easter egg.
what does dorothy and Pinocchio have to do with the league of gentlemen though? makes no sense.
@@breakthecode4634 I think that's why they said LEG "type scenario". The same kind of idea using Victorian era fairytales and fiction. Maybe they could also add Alice from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland too.
@@breakthecode4634 League of extraordinary gentleman is comic book series by Alan Moore. It reimagines many classic literature characters as a superhero team.
@@breakthecode4634it really doesn’t especially if there are no vamps or invisible mfs
i choose to believe that the Tyrant's Murder Knife belongs to Jack the Ripper
I want to think that part of the reason why the people of Krat loved the puppets is that, well, the time period this takes place is actually pretty awful for the ordinary laborer. Work for ordinary people was often dirty, demeaning, and/or dangerous, with bosses who don't care if you die. So, having something that kept the poor from being forced to do those jobs would likely be seen as a good thing. These aren't workers being deprived of their livelihood, but the poor being kept from living lives bordering on slavery.
Thank you for touching on this.
They would be deprived of their livelihood though, puppet's are essentially a manufacturable labor force that would quickly take up every blue collar job in the city, leaving the human workers unemployed with maybe puppet maintenance available as a job market. I don't think it's a coincidence that we see (AFAIK) all mentions of puppet's being beloved in richer districts of the city.
yeah, I got the same kind of idea, especially as we didn't see an "anti-puppet" group or talking points, untill after the Frenzy started.
It's pretty much what could have happened had automation occurred before the advent of workers' rights. Or at the very least had automation at the very beginning of industrialization.
I mean this makes sense kind of. But if you don't have a job then you're making any money and you need money to buy food and pay bills and stuff. Working in factories back then sucked a lot, but it stopped you from starving to death as a homeless person.
I think Simon mentions a world without lies because he’s trying to escape the physical pain and isolation that comes with his ability to read minds. He mentions Sophia helping with pain and that’s why he keeps her captive
Honestly making games based off fairy tales into a souls like game is actually very interesting. I would love if they continue to do games like this like, imagine one based off Peter Pan in Neverland, that would be so cool. Like imagine like one of the endings turns you into Captain hook and the whole premise about being about a cycle. Idk after seeing this, the potential is there.
Yea, this isn't the first time but Indepdently, the R-18 game BlackSouls draws upon older fairy tales, although this one has it's own tricks with it's own engine, vs BlackSoul's RPG Maker for 1v1 duels.
So kingdom hearts?
The original Peter Pan book is apparantly a bit less kid friendly than the disney movie, so I would totally be interested what noewiz could cook up with it
@@kylecorrales9962 not really, more like take aspects of the original peter pan story and maybe the Disney version. Like imagine the MC you play is a lost boy or a Peter Pan to be. Like being Peter Pan is a title and that you don't find out about it until the very end of the game. Like one of the endings has you find out that the Boss Captain Hook was a previous Peter Pan or something like that
@@kitelanfordnever expected black souls to be mentioned in the comments
I'm incredibly bad at parrying, but I really love the concept of ergo. A form of energy that simultaneously embodies "the past" (memories) and "the future" (lifespan) is a really fun idea, and Lies of P does enough exploration of this for me to want to see more.
you can play Armored Core 6 then, same thing
tbh this concept does happen from time to time in different story, I can't recall where I saw it thou but AC6 does use this story element
I finished the game and not once parried on purpose. Just blocking works fine. Stat Weapon scaling is miniscule so it is better to increase your weight cap which does not have a soft cap. So you can wear the heaviest weapons and armor. So you can just tank a lot of hits.
Ergo reminded me a lot of the Philosopher's Stone in Fullmetal Alchemist, which is also made from the life of people and directly correlates to their lifespan. And there is even a serial killer made into a stone that is used in a puppet, who acts very much like the king of riddles. And Simon does resemble the main antagonist of FMA, with his plan to consume god and all lol
Not to mention that Pinocchios arm resembles the automail that Ed has to wear.
@@leesasuki almost the same but not quite, corral is an energy source thats also people yes but in a much different way than ergo is, ergo is like a persons past and future crystalized into a useable form, and while yes people can wake up inside puppet bodies thanks to it, its more like the ergo fueling the shell to turn sed shell into the person the ergo used to be
corral on the other hand is a living organism that is a super energy source, but also can house within itself artificial intelligences composed entirely of corral wave patterns, these ai's can then manipulate certain bits of technology like armored cores and can sometimes communicate with people like the player
if i were to state the difference, ergo requires a body (even if that of a puppet) to become a person and is the unliving crystalization of peoples memories and life, while corral is a living thing in its own right that has no need for a body but still can commandeer a body like an armored core or an ice worm and forms intelligences on its own, although it still can incorporate the minds of humans into itself much like digitizing a person
@@chimericpaladin35813 And now I remember that other game that also used similar setting, Death Stranding
Although I'm not sure about how different these are, I didn't play LoP so I can't be too sure, but ergo does sound like Coral in some sense. Do remember, it is Fromsoft game and hence the explanation is not exactly clear.
As Coral, for example Ice Worm and Sea Spider, they fight us not because they want to fight us, they act more like a machine in this sense while also kinda possessed their own personality, sometime (like how ice worm become self aware). And in a certain part of story (try not to spoil the story here), Ayre was called "C-mutation", and from how only some of these Coral able to communicate and act like human around Augmented-Human, I would say Coral, in its primitive form, work more like things in Death Stranding, where it can carry energy, carry information (as how Augmented Human work), and kinda mindless
Which if you think about it, it could achieve something very similar to ergo as you can store someone mind inside the Coral (as mentioned in the same part of story about Ayre C-mutation), and basically put it inside an AC or puppet to "revive them", and vice versa as if ergo evolved (like into some water or gas form), feels like it can act exactly like how Coral act as it contain multiple personality inside it at this point
Maybe it’s looking too deep into it but I thought it was cool that that the submarine looked kinda similar to a whale. Just like the whale that Pinocchio got swallowed by.
Ahaha, most def. The only other easter egg regarding the Disney versions whale, whose name is Monstro, is of course the Barren Swamp boss, who you can see also shares the name Monstro. That whale really scared the fuck out of me as a little kid playing the Pinocchio Super Nintendo game..... there's a final level where you run away from the whale on a raft and it literally gave me nightmares. Ahahah
@@deeku.4009Barren Swamp boss?
It's a shark, and it's a reference to the shark in the story. The whale is a Disney thing.
@@deeku.4009 Sorry, I am going to reply to this again. Barren Swamp Monster is a reference to the Disney name Monstro? Which means monster? How? Lots of things in the game are monsters, naming one of them (that looks nothing like a whale or a dogfish) a monster isn't really a reference to anything.
Amusingly I also had nightmares as a kid of running away from a completely different boss monster that I really shouldn't have been scared of.
was really hoping for some sort of whale type fight or enemy my whole playthrough
I realized just how well written the game was when I went to the Island of Alchemists not to beat a bad guy, but because I wanted answers. Plus, the fact that there are multiple threats and no single antagonist throughout the story really helps keep things fresh.
What kept me hooked until the end was honetly Gepetto. Id say about halfway through the game you start to realize hes probably not the good guy, but only at the end do you understand why. The urge to find out about his real motive was exceptionally strong.
Arlecchino's state, pinned and wired to a wall with his body impaled, is likely a reference to Brau 1589 from the manga/anime Pluto. In it, Brau was the first robot to ever kill a human, and the fact that he could despite being 3 Laws compliant makes him genuinely terrifying in-universe, because it makes no sense that he could kill a human in spite of there being no faults in his AI.
the laws were made after he killed, that was stated.
I mean...our dear boy Asimov himself said the laws were insufficient to prevent a robot from committing acts that could be construed as harmful to humanity, and has a body of work detailing the MANY ways it can go down.
So not really horrifying, at least in terms of being unsafe.
@@KuroeNezumi That doesn't really remove the horror of that, just shifts the subject. "oh these ironclad rules that we trusted to keep us safe are not in fact ironclad? Well who wrote them? who's fault is it? Did they know and was int intentional?"
@@henrypaleveda7760The loopholes in the law likely stem from the fact that humans are imperfect and as such, cannot make a perfect law.
@@pillarmenn1936I like to think that he became perfect the moment he became “imperfect”. The closest way a robot could be human is if they become what humans are, imperfect. No faults in his AI because he already became human.
During NG+ on the bridge to the Cathedral, you hear a puppet say that the King orders them to protect the humans and purge the Petrification monsters. Romeo himself says they're still bound by the Grand Covenant, which would imply that anything they're killing is no longer human.
Damn….
It's possible that Romeo was dying from the petrification disease and asked Geppetto to turn him into a puppet. Geppetto did so but in the process intentionally turned him into his slave, part of Geppetto's plot to slay the people of Krat in order to gain enough ergo to revive Carlo. This worked until Romeo's ergo was awakened, and he took to controlling the rest of the puppets to control the monster population that was rapidly growing from the Alchemists' failed cure. Once we kill the king, the puppets are no longer set on fighting the monsters without the king's guidance and are now just mindless metal creatures
Great find! That explains why the puppets and carcasses attack each other.
Never thought I’d pop off at a Dorothy DLC, but given how much Fairy Tales are involved in this Souls-like, a girl getting Isekai’d in a dream sounds like you could make some wild environments and enemies. Also, maybe a Big O Dorothy to tie in the machine-human analogy?
Likely won't be DLC, but a sequel. We'll see.
Prefer it to be a sequel
That would be SO cool! I'm also a big fan of the anime!
"girl getting Isekai’d": That's funny, because Isekai is based on The Wizard of Oz, which was immensely popular in Japan.
@@mdbattlefrog1913 I think it’s possible to make a DLC if you follow The Wizard of Oz setting. It would basically be a 3 chapter arc with 3 additional zones. The first part would be the village of tiny puppets being attacked by a witch puppet enemy as the boss, the golden brick road witch would be filled with monsters and NPC allies (Lion, Strawman, and A LITERAL TINMAN puppet) that need to make it to the Emerald City Zone to battle the “Man behind the Curtain” boss.
This is the only soulslike that ive actually been really invested in the story. What a incredible game.
me too!!
Saaaame
Agreed
Yeah! That is the reason I think it might even top from soft games.
As much as I loved the story, all 3 Souls games and BB blow LoP out of the water in terms of narrative.
In regards to the whole puppet frenzy thing. We know that Ergo is basically human souls and memories as a form of energy that can be crystallized, we also know that Ergo seems also capable of granting wishes under the correct circumstances albeit the explanation is vague (I mean Ergo also manipulates time so it’s not out of the question). With that said, it could be that Geppetto possibly went insane in his grief over his son dying and, armed with the knowledge of how Ergo works as well as his craftsmanship and insight on probably everything that goes on in Krat (including the Alchemists and how Sophia is being used by them), Geppetto waited for the Grand Exhibition to take place so that not only could the people of Krat be attacked, but also visitors as well, where they can be killed and used to farm huge amounts of Ergo because we know it’s not only the bosses who’s Ergo is extracted but also just about any Ergo in the environment as there’s different concentrations of it. Geppetto, as the craftsman of the puppets, was in the best position to know all sorts of things because of the role he would play in Krats society. He also made Romeo king of the puppets without Romeo or any of the puppets knowing it as a way of maintaining secrecy so that he’s not exposed with law 0 possibly being a hidden law unknown to both humans and puppets, only Geppetto. Part of me thinks that Carlo’s death was between the creation of the first puppet (the nameless puppet) and the creation of the Grand Covenant because it’s known that in the world of Lies of P, the Adventures of Pinocchio, or at least a variation of the fairy tale, exists that seems to have inspired Geppetto to create the puppets which is supported by Gemini’s dialogue. This of course meant that Geppetto spared little time for his actual son Carlo who grew to resent Geppetto for it as he would become a Stalker and then die by some unknown causes (possibly killed by Arlecchino) with Geppetto possibly making his plot to revive Carlo around the time the Grand Covenant was created as he implants law 0 into it. Geppetto then creates Pinocchio in preparation for this night as he knew that once all hell broke loose, there wouldn’t be time or safety to make a puppet like Pinocchio who will go out, fight, collect Ergo, and experiences in an effort to prepare the heart for a revived Carlo. He also probably gambled on Sophia awakening him because he possibly knows of her abilities thanks to the Alchemists, or he assumed that given enough time, the Ergo in the environment would awaken him. The reason why I say that he gambled on Sophia awakening Pinocchio as well as Sophia in general is because Geppetto seems to know a lot about the Alchemists so it makes sense if he knew about Sophia and what she could do
The puppets going crazy and acting wild could be a result of the contradiction formed by law 0 conflicting with the other grand covenant laws
I'm uncertain if Carlo died or the nameless puppet came first. It's boss drop says that it was his first attempt at a p-organ puppet, but wasn't chosen as the body for Carlo bc, "...it's ergo efficiency was not just unremarkable, it was destructive..." The "good boy" ending where you let gepetto take your heart has him pull it out and then shows a new body for Carlo in the end. My guess is nameless was his first prototype, and while Pinnochio was the beta model made to fight and collect ergo, he was never meant to be the final, completely indistinguishable from human, product. Little did he know that he had already succeeded with Pinnochio. He may be hardly recognizable as Carlo by the time he became fully human, but he did manage to do so over the course of the story, all by himself. With the help of Sophia's time rewinding powers that ensured he could keep trying without being perma destroyed of course 😂 cause buddy gets folded many times over before he gets there. As another layer on top of that, it seems like the true ending sets up that ALL of that was set in motion by the shadowy organization that Paracelsus(Giangio) is speaking to. They seem to be some higher authority that seeks to grow their ranks by creating new immortals, and however they have to accomplish that, they'll do it clearly. The neat part is it seems the way these immortals are created are based upon real world fairy tales that seem to exist as stories in the in-game universe as well.
@@sixft_under it’s strange how the Nameless puppet becomes the body for the new “Carlo” (there’s plenty of reason to believe that Geppetto didn’t truly want to revive Carlo as he originally was but wanted to “revive” Carlo as the son he always wanted him to be which was no different than an obedient puppet that would happily slaughter at his behest). I think that since Geppetto was so obsessed with the story of Pinocchio, he really tried to recreate the character in their world as much as possible but of course, with twists to substitute for the obvious things the “real world” lacks. Such as full on magic from a mystical blue fairy that can make wood come to life. Obviously that wouldn’t be possible in the “real world” so Geppetto substitutes it with machinery and Ergo as a fuel source while also probably tossing some human flesh/skin in there (I mean look at that grotesque thing, it’s decayed human flesh and blood) to help with the “real boy” aspect. It’s possible that once word got out about his work to people like the Alchemist (and subsequently the secret organization that probably controls the Alchemists) Geppetto went from some slightly mad scientist performing some experiments to building robotic machines called puppets that would create a golden age for Krat though the production of such puppets had to have some changes in Geppetto’s original blueprints (like no decayed human skin and flesh as well as probably less complex system to save cost and efficiently produce which resulted in the lack of a P-organ) this however resulted in, again, him having no time for Carlo and eventually, Carlo’s death pushed him to become a full on mad scientist and sociopath who was willing to initiate the puppet frenzy to start the process of reviving Carlo. I guess we can note that Geppetto’s plans and the Alchemist (and secret organizations) were all separate but seem to collide and align for a time once the puppet frenzy began. Geppetto wanted to gather Ergo to revive his son while making the Puppet that’ll help him do that amass experience. The Alchemist wanted to collect Ergo and evolve. And the secret organization wanted to see a new form of immortality and/or humanity form through the Alchemist though ended up being surprised by what Pinocchio ended up developing into, which is a sort of Puppet/Human hybrid. They all had their own goals and desires but the whole puppet frenzy incident sort of helped their goals align for a bit which was collecting Ergo and witnessing the changes that will come with it.
It’s interesting to note how this secret society seems to be targeting, or are involved with, incidents are fairy tales becoming real or at least being replicated/manifested in the “real world”. This game was all about the story of Pinocchio occurring in a world where Pinocchio is already a fairy tale story, and now we will be seeing the Wizard of Oz occur with Paracelsus possessing a Wizard of Oz book. It’s almost as if this organization is seeking out or hunting down fairy tales that become real. We already know through in-game items like the spirit summoning rocks that wishes are something that can actually sort of come true in this world through possibly the use of Ergo. And since Ergo can be in the very air itself, perhaps the explanation is that fairy tales can become real (albeit altered and changed to fit the world) in this reality once the desire and wish is strong enough for it to occur and so a phenomenon happens where reality seems to make it so that the fairy tale happens but with a twist and this organization potentially knows all about this. Geppetto and multiple other people in Krat read the story of Pinocchio and, once his and possibly their desires and wishes for it to be real or belief in it became strong enough, fate and reality made it so that the fairy tale could come true. Next thing people knew, robotic puppets were real and made by a guy named Geppetto (it may not be his real name as some people said), a girl with special powers related to the mystical energy source of Ergo that also has blue hair was born, vigilante groups began wearing masks that signified different animals which coincidentally reflected animal characters from the fairy tale, and lying became a big deal in Krat. There’s obviously changes due to the circumstances that keep it from being one to one but one can see how the fairy tale seemingly came into reality though suspiciously Pinocchio is never once actually called Pinocchio and some people have theorized that it’s because he will also play the role of the tin man from Wizard of Oz, signifying his return.
@wizardwolf1020 @wizardwolf1020 oh shit! Bc the tin man wanted a heart! So you think he put the heart into the nameless puppet and that's the new Carlo we see at the end? It seems like he puts the heart with the box that nameless is in, but he has to go through some major alterations to end up looking so human in the end unless we chalk it up to ergo magic. If that's what it is, a case could maybe be made for those grotesque fleshy looking parts only being present on nameless bc it's made up partially of Carlo's dead body. I don't think any descriptions say it was the first puppet Gepetto EVER made, just the first p-organ puppet he made, but I could be wrong. I tried looking up lines and descriptions, but only found the quote I had mentioned before in relation to being "first". It could be that Carlo we see at the end is a result of Carlo's dead body mixed with puppet parts(nameless), and a magic ergo heart, forming Gepetto's perfect son. One who does exactly what he's told like a good boy. It's unfortunate Gepetto went crazy bc he clearly did love his son. I wonder how much the secret organization made happen, bc the interests aligned yea, but Paracelsus refers to it as "the Krat experiment" as if they were pulling all the strings or at least did things to push everything in a certain direction. Not entirely related, but what do you make of the trinity rooms? I can't decide who the trinity is supposed to be, bc they seem like meeting places for 3 certain individuals but idk who exactly. I know we find Arlecchino in the last one, but it seems like he just has the keys to the rooms bc he's broken into all of them, and wants you to see them too. He leaves those messages in blood on the wall of each one until it seems like he finally got caught in the last one, and somebody really fucked him up bad. Not sure who beat him up either, and since it's in the alchemist stronghold it could've been any number of strong people, including ones we haven't met. They put his ass INTO the damn wall and just left him there broken
@@sixft_under Geppetto seems to actually be a controlling person that often guises as a good one which fits with the whole “lie” thing the game has going on. We can see it through the game as while he tells us to be a good boy and listen to him like any parent would say, it really turns out manipulative in the end when you consider the context of the ending. There’s also how the whole puppet stuff and control seems to mess with his view on people as he considers reviving his own son properly as not only making him part puppet at least while just having his memories, but also having his son do whatever he tells him to do. It’s controlling and manipulative, and screams that he lacks genuine human understanding which is fits his whole puppet/robot obsession. He seems to be a guy that was too engrossed in his own work and obsessions to give his son the love and attention he needed and when Carlo died, rather than accept and come to terms that he completely failed as a father who had missed his chance, Geppetto tries to fix it by not only “reviving” Carlo but also making him “better” by having him be at least part puppet and doing everything he says. The moment Geppetto even decided to make that alteration, that, “he’ll be better like this.” Was the moment he went from trying to bring back what he lost to defiling his sons memory by basically making something new off of his sons remains because that wouldn’t be the true Carlo anymore, it would be something else, and it shows that he may not have loved Carlo in the end for who he was but what he was and what that meant, his son. As for Paracelsus and “the Krat Experiment”, like I said, the Alchemists seem to be either a group the secret organization founded and controlled through the shadows, or infiltrated and manipulated to be used as the means to pull off the Krat experiment, because the organization seems really tied to them in ways like “immortality” “humanity” “the arm of god”, etc. so it could be that the whole Petrification disease experiments and what came of them was planned by Paracelsus and the organization, but things like the puppet frenzy and Pinocchio were unknowns that ended up working for them in the end as they both got their new form of immortality and humanity and plan to retrieve the arm of god. The Trinity rooms may either be places that spies of the organization placed in different groups of Krat like the Stalkers, Workshop, and Alchemist could go to and meet up to have meetings and make reports, or it’s a place where members of the Trinity that makes up Krat (I forget what made up the Trinity but I know it includes the Alchemists and maybe the Workshop) can meet and sort of act as a secret society that controls all of Krat from the shadows
Ok, but why would Geppetto make the puppets go crazy in order to get others to maybe destroy them instead of, say, making the self destruct?
It's interesting how Sophia holds Pinocchio in the ending, quite likely a reference to La Pieta. Makes sense, considering she is who gave him life.
and the saintess statue!
@@aamu3 interesting, given that statue was made by Carlo's mother
@@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlongDamn. Can't have a waifu, I guess.
Unless…?
Asking for a friend…
@@danielantony1882 Oedipus complex. That simple
Gepetto being the villain reminded me of the comic Fables (of which The Wolf Among Us is a video game adaptation) in which Gepetto basically becomes the evil emperor due to people asking him to replace troublesome monarchs etc. with puppets which of course he ultimately controls he also captures the blue fairy and drains her to fuel his puppets
Good thing this one has some redemmable qualities
Words can’t describe how proud I am of how much progress you’ve made since our time, from sitting together in a Bloodborne session trying to find the motivation to record as little baby channels, to over 300,000 people watching your analysis and reviews. Absolutely insane man, would love to catch up sometime.
Idk who you are but if this statement is real I hope he sees it
I played through both NG+ and NG++ and I think there's something worth mentioning it:
The District of Malum is very important. Not just because it was the place Carlo and Romeo grew up and meet eachother alongside getting to know this "legendary Stalker" who we don't know much about, but also where most of the Alchemists, Stalkers and Tinkerers in Krat got their education through the Charity House (aka Rose Estate), founded by the Monad family's matriarch Valentinus, Sophia's father and fiancé of Lady Isabelle. One day however, an unknown incident struck Rose Estate, which not only took the life of Valentinus, but possibly Romeo's and Carlo's as well. Whatever this incident was, it was quickly covered by the city's authorities over the pretext of "preventing chaos caused by the large-scale spreading of the Petrification Disease." If this is incident did happened, then Rose Estate is, essentially, the place where everything was set into motion, from Simon taking over the Alchemists after Valentinus' death to Geppeto's whole scheme for bringing Carlo back. It's also possible that Romeo was an attempt of Geppeto testing with Ergo to see if he could bring Carlo back, which would explain how Romeo was able to retain his memories and break free from the Great Covenant, much like "P", but knew he had to stop the Alchemists and Geppeto's scheme after Romeo himself realized the Covenant was flawed due to Law Zero (as stated in the Ergowave recordings during late game.)
It's probably easier for puppets that were once human to develop an ego i.e. Pinocchio and Romeo, since it does say they grew up together in the monad boarding school before the accident.
Wasn’t that cover up also tied to Arlechinno killing Venigni’s parents? Or did I misremember that?
@braxinIV I'm not certain but I'm pretty sure there were a couple plot point that happened around the same time that are seperate from each other, Simon caused the outbreak to happen to try and get rid of valintinus(previous alchemist leader) because he didn't agree with how they wanted to obtain immortality. Carlo dies in this outbreak and Geppeto with Simon and I'm sure it was venini made the puppet commandment to try and keep them in control and imprisoned arlechino to study his ego much like camille the first puppet to develop an ego.
I think the "Legendary stalker" is Isabelle Monad. It gives her a reason to be at the monad charity house, why Carlo and Romeo want to learn from her (She tell Gemini to get rid of them), and when you first start the game and pick up Gemini you receive "Monad's lamp".
@villainking420 so i looked into monads lamp and I don't think it is an exclusive item, I think Gemini is unique but not the lamps themselves. Isabelle monad and her husband founded the charity house, while the husband(i.e. valintinus monad) was a teacher at the house. I'm not sure if she is the legendary stalker or not, or how Gemini ties back to her.
Its a misconception that you get the best ending by lying, its actually by having enough humanity. You can increase your humanity by showing kindness, pray, and listening to music, you will feel warmth if successful . You can see your humanity meter by looking at your nose at carlo's portrait.
I was just below the threshold for the best ending.... 😢😢😢
Lying is one of the best ways to get humanity. Every lie gives you humanity
You wont get enough humanity without lying
Even if you get and play every possible record, pray to the obe winged angel, give sophia peace, and refuse gepetto
You will need to lie at least 50% of the time to get the required humanity (the endings requirement is slightly lower than the requirement to get the golden lie)
Exactly. Lying is just to fit the narrative of Pinocchio. But I see the choices more akin to Detriot Become Human.
agreed ie showing a certain item from a puppet-loving human to a certain human-loving puppet isnt rlly lying to him but it still raises humanity
Lies of P plays like a mixture of Bioshock, storywise and Bloodborne and damn, I love that so much.
Beat the game a few hours ago with lying throughout the game, then saying no to Geopetto at the end. They threw in so many boss fights at the end if you pick all the proper options 😂 and the tapping of Dorothy's heels at the end opens up this multidimensional universe they got going on. It wasnt mentioned much in the game, but with the specters coming from a separate dimension, they have soooo much room to expand on lore.
Just wondering - regarding Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz, could we as Pinocchio be “the tin man”? We spent the whole game building our heart with it being the main focus of the ending.
That's what I'm wondering too. Maybe the real fairy tale being adapted is the Wizard of Oz?
There’s A LOT of parallels that point to it. But I am hoping the Tin Man is his own character in the sequel, with Pinocchio making a cameo as proof that you can grow a heart.
@@braxinIVthat would be so cool!! Like Pinocchio grew to be a mentor figure between games.
That's exactly what I said. Since we weren't directly called pinocchio, we can merge into that world very easily. Because we basically have the story of the Tin Man
I'm seeing a God of War scenario where it's not a 1 to 1 translation of the original myths/ stories, but "the events will rhyme."
If Paracelsus at the end is who I think it is, then I think Ergo is very deeply tied to the Philosophers stone. And if you think about it and look back it makes a lot of sense as well.
Time travel, a link to the human soul, an exchange and needing to use humans to make it, possible to grant wishes, potential for immortality, and transumtative properties? Yep that checks out.
The moment the reveal that Ergo is People dropped; all I could think of was Full Metal Alchemist and the comparisons to their Philosopher stones
Isnt Paracelsus just Peter Pan?
What's the biggest mystery of the game is where the hell did Simon get his hat when he's transforming into a god. I mean, unless the hat also mutated, he has a big ass hat he uses in his first phase fight.
@Gingy I was under the assumption Gepetto did the Frenzy in order to slow Manus master plan and collect enough ergo for Carlo’s revival. You didn’t really mention this but Sophia is suggested to be the former Head Alchemist(Vincenzo/Valdinnis) daughter who is supposedly dead before the events of the game. Paracelsus and the remaining Alchemists in his faction seem to have solely focused forcing the evolution of mankind into immortal beings Dorothy being referenced as a “key” ties back into what Manus was getting at. The arm is most likely the god arm Pinocchio has gotten from manus to perform another “evolution”. I strongly suspect Manus, Sophia, and Paracelsus were all products of Valdinni’s experimentation process to achieve this goal
Pretty sure Sophia tells you she is the daughter of former alchemy leader herself
his name is Valentinus
An interview back in August (I think) revealed that the devs were already getting prepped for a dlc. They mentioned that they unfortunately had to cut some worldbuilding and lore due to pacing issues, and that the dlc is where the extra story will be put into use. Lies of P is far from a perfect game, but I’m very impressed with its polish considering this is their first ever foray into AAA gaming. Thanks for covering this game.
Imagine a game series of the princesses and other main characters from kid's fairy tails, never imagined in my life anticipating for such games but if they are like Lies of P then im all for it.
I can't wait for the grim reboot of the gingerbread man
Just finished your death stranding and metal gear videos, absolutely fell in love with this channel, keep up the good work!
He has many more really good videos , keep exploring and enjoy !
@@samx23 IK! I also seen his soma and scorn vids, I've been binging his channel
@@keenza73 soma was one of my favorites , bioshock aswell .. there are a cpl i haven't got to watch yet but they give me a lot of insight on series i haven't played before but would take me ages to play through or even watch a playthrough of , aswell as give better explanation than a lot of "story explained " videos on yt . Truly a Great channel , glad i found it :D
@@keenza73lmaooo literally me i also found his channel not too long ago maybe about a month every video is awesome
The metal gear video got me hooked on this channel for sure. My new go to TH-cam channel to listen to in order to unwind at the end of the day!
Lies of P is such a good game, story is interesting, combat is hard but satisfying. I honestly think this game will be in the conversation up there next to Fromsoft when comparing other souls-Bourne games. Cos i have no doubt other souls likes will take stuff from Lies of P just like they take Dark Souls mechanics.
Nah, this is like Code Vein. Cheap rip off of Bloodborne with unpolished combat and bad mechanics that no other game will try, but like Code Vein at least the story is good.
@@Kumire_921 This is what we call lying to yourself; How is the combat unpolished? What bad mechanics? Get gud.
@@Kumire_921 i understand your feeling, i also felt the same thing before just like you, no other company can make souls game like Formsoftware, if so they will never on par or better.. but Lies of P prooven wrong and i, till today, still learn to accept this truth.. its the best souls game out there so far, or atleast this year.. This game make Morthal Shell, which developed by AAA game studio, like fanmade souls game. Its not perfect but its obviously not bad or unpolished.
They fixed everything souls borne from Fromsoftware have like:
1. The confusing side-quest location and story deliver with marking icon on teleporting device and language they use is easy to understand (like it doesn't use art', thou' or some confusing language like that, just straight forward).
2. Unlimited repair powder with grinding mechanic.
3. Perfect guard instead of parry that give player more accurate timing bcuz, IMO, parrying in soulsborne is worse bcuz you need to matching the animation of your parry with animation of enemy attack which is annoying. In this game, perfect guard is almost instant animation which give player the advantage bcuz they don't need to worry about their parry animation, just have to focus on enemy attack animation. Oh don't forget about making the parry window larger by holding the guard and tapping when the attack lands.
4. Souls/Ergo placed outside of boss room if you die, this is so good.
5. Optional boss can actually be skipped after getting inside the boss room, no barrier that block you to skip this, like Puppet of Future, the clown boss, and others.
6. You can't running around hitting NPCs, its also so good bcuz this actually problem in soulsborne bcuz it can messed up some questline or even locked the feature/story progression/weapon/equipment/etc in the rest of the run.
7. The handle and blade combination fixing problem where when you find a new weapon in soulsborne but don't have the material to upgrade it. In this game you can swap the blade with the upgraded one bcuz the moveset determined by the handle.
8. Performance, almost no bug or FPS problem whatsoever even with laptop with 3060 graphic card on high settings. No FPS cap either (bloodborne problem).
Its just in my opinion tho,
@@Kumire_921 lmfao just say you suck.
The Puppet Frenzy is easily explained, it's established that Ergo comes from people, specifically the dead. The purpose of the Puppet Frenzy was to kill off as many people as possible. And then he let Simons plan play out because he knew it would syphon an enormous amount of Ergo to his tower. Ergo he could use to bring life to the first Puppet.
Alternatively P kills Simon and then his Heart can be used to directly power it using the Ergo obtained from Simon. He kinda had all this figured out.
Antonia mentions the tree if you talk to her immediately after opening the door. I didn't realise this till NG+. She explains that the Tree was the source of the deal between the hotel and the alchemists and a large part of its wealth came from this trade deal. however after a while the alchemists started murdering each other over the coins and in disgust she sealed the doors to the tree and set the defences of the hotel to kill any alchemists that entered the hotel without permission which is why she didn't bother doing anything about the secret entrance since the alchemist couldn't get in anyway (until fake Alidoro f@##$ it up) shes extremely annoyed to find out the Black rabbits were stealing them to give the alchemists anyway so gives you permission to use the tree since shed rather you use it than anyone else.
In ng + the decoded Puppet dialogue reveals Romeo was trying to get the puppets to protect the humans though we don't know how much actual control he had and if he was only partially getting it to work or if he could only control a few puppets at a time.
I think Simon's writings are meant to imply his father was LIKE a god to him not that he was a literal god.
Gingy is amazing, spectacular, mindblowing. Keep growing bro!
Agreed, he and his content deserve so much more attention. I love this guy's videos.
It would be cool if you could side with Romeo on an NG+ play though once you can understand what the puppets are saying but I get that that’s like developing a whole second game to add a completely different quest path
Nier Automata is a lot like that.
yeah, immediately as soon as i saw the gibberish subtitles in puppet boss fights, i knew it would be similar to nier automata
i'm not sure if i'm right here, but it seemed heavily implied that Carlo was killed by the original puppet killer, this then being covered up by the alchemists sends Geppetto into a spiral, first he creates the laws for the safety of the people, but then he recreates his son
we know that peoples Ego can become awakened through experiences similar to when they were alive, and what is the one thing we know about Carlo? (in this theory) he was killed, fighting a puppet
so what if Geppetto's rampage was all so that Pinocchio's Ergo could awaken it's Ego by reliving the final moments of his life, over, and over again, same experiment, expecting different results, insanity, and only after his son is reborn (bad end) will he focus on cleaning up the mess he made for the sake of his revival
it'd even explain why Romeo was made the king of puppets, the best chance at getting his son back, confronting him with both his worst moment (dying in a fight with a puppet) and his best memories (playing with his closest friend)
That would be an interesting scenario! It seems like the really hard thing to address is why our protagonist puppet was sitting there turned off. If he needed him to fight, why leave him just sitting there alone in the dark?
@@Eladelia my guess is he's a prototype, Pinocchio doesn't have the laws implanted into him, so it might be he was only ever a practice model, a proof of concept.
When Geppetto finished his prototype he gets to work on the fully realized body, which is the body he had ready in the bad ending
Sophia is the one to activate him, with a sort of a spark of life, something he returns to her in the good ending, so it might be what got him to work in the end
In addition it would explain why Geppetto isn't willing to talk as much when we first meet him, he just sees the prototype of his sons body walking around, so he sends him on an errand to see if he's actually capable, only the being willing to talk to Pinocchio
Whether or not you lie or tell the truth has a lot more consequences than you'd think. There are a lot of rewards that are locked behind specific dialogue options, especially records (which could make the difference between which of the 3 endings you get and whether you get the Golden Lie). But yeah, there definitely are consequences for which options you choose, they just don't present themselves unless you play through again and choose the other option. For instance: When you meet the Atoned, you get the option to either give the stalker's greeting or to do nothing. If you give the Stalker's Greeting (the Lie option), you can avoid having to fight her (to be fair, you can return after killing the Archbishop if you'd still like to fight her). If you choose to do nothing, you're forced to fight her before you're able to progress. While the consequences might not be too detrimental, there are definitely drawbacks to what options you choose other than how it affects the ending.
First of all, fantastic video. Really enjoyed the thorough explanation on the events of the game. Well articulated and delivered! Great job.
That being said, I stumbled upon a comment that really irked me the wrong way: at 9:42 he says something along the lines of ''sadly, the game does not let us explore freely and it's a more linear experience going level to level in a sequence'' and I am here sitting thinking: does every single game in existence _have_ to be open world? Why can't games be smaller and more focused like this one? I truly don't understand that mentality and taste. Perhaps it's the fact that in the lasy 10-15 years that's what people have been accustomed to getting from games. An over-saturated industry filled with open world games everywhere. That's the sad part.
I agree with you, but I think you're misinterpreting him a bit. I don't think he was lamenting that Lies of P isn't open world, just that it could afford to be a bit more flexible. Every single FromSoft soulslike allows the player to make certain choices on how they want to progress, while still gatekeeping late-game content for the most part. Lies of P is 100% linear; this makes it a lot easier to balance, but limits player options.
I don't think this additional freedom would have impacted the story at all, but it would have been more work to implement cleanly, which is probably why they decided against it despite copying FromSoft's homework in every other area.
Victor, in appearance and name, clearlly refers to Victor Frankenstein, which is basically a Pinocchio-like if you squint a little, and conceptually is closer in plot to the game. I presume the reason the good doctors name is used is because keep confusing the name ‘Frankenstein’ with the monster, and that the implication of the novel is Victor is the real monster. Here, he’s both.
I could very well be wrong here, but the take-away by the end of my first playthrough was that Gepetto was working with Simon and the alchemist's (if not one himself, at least an ally). When the Alchemist's had gotten all that they could out of Gepetto's research into Ergo as a power source for the puppet's they turned him out from the tower, cutting off his access to the massive stockpile of Ergo has was going to need to revive Carlo (and possibly also the puppet body he was going to use, since nowhere did I see him carting that massive crate around with him). As a result he awakens the puppets, unaware even with his knowledge of Ergo that puppets can spontaneously regain their memories of humanity, as evidenced by Romeo, Arlecchino, Polendina, Pulcinella, and the original nanny puppet that saved the baby falling from the crib. Gepetto needs an army to take the tower back from Simon. Romeo, seeing what Gepetto's final plan is for P/Carlo, and emboldened by the fact that each puppet is essentially a dead person enslaved to a machine body, sparks the uprising and massacre, and we start the game at this muddled state of affairs. Once P/Carlo wakes up Gepetto no longer needs the rest of the puppets, and his purpose was never to harm the rest of Krat, so he has P/Carlo go after Romeo to stop him, aware that Carlo will be absorbing all of the Ergo he'll need to fuel the hearts reawakening of his son along the way
Nice one. I'm pretty sure the petrification disease comes from Kroud, which is referred to as a mineral that absorbs ergo spores from the air in an alchemist note you find, and is probably the big rock spires you find breaking through the world in the collapsed parts of the city later in the game. It's likely what was being mined for the ergo in the first place, and Ginago/Paracelcus is part of something called the Order of Kroud. Intriguing stuff. Also, a minor point is that there's no indication in the game that we are actually playing as Pinocchio, nobody ever refers to our character by that name and there's a book in the hotel that Gemini comments on that seems to be the actual Pinocchio story, that was beloved by someone Gemini can't quite remember, likely Geppetto.
or Carlo!! in the fight against puppet geppetto says ~'i should have read you your favourite book'
@@xonroy7061 its definitely possible, it's been a while since I revisited that particular bit of dialogue.
P stands for puppet, not Pinnochio. Even though its def Pinnochio LOL
@@anotherastronaut_ I'm quite partial to the theory that the P stands for "people"
Your story analyses are some of the best I’ve seen on TH-cam. Always looking forward to seeing you make more!
Something that i think is worth mentioning; When we arrive at the beach of the Arche Abbey, we get to see all the memories with Carlo and Romeo. From the dialogue, it seems that Romeo and Carlo were living together in said charity house, Romeo because he did not have parents and Carlo because his father did not give a flying fuck about him. So what Geppetto does seems more like he does it because he doesnt want to lose something thats ”his“ rather than actually giving a shit about the life that was lost.
While I do agree that Geppy probably wasn't the best father to Carlos, I will argue that he most likely genuinely regretted being like that to Carlos after Carlos died. Someone who only saw children as property wouldn't go out of their way to recreate a perfect replica of their child.
I know that I'm late to the comments but there were a few things that seemed very explicit to me during my playthrough that wern't clear to Gingy so I thought I'd share. Specifically, let's talk Gepetto and his motivations for inciting the puppet frenzy.
When Carlo died, Gepetto was overcome with grief and his mourning pushed him to the brink of madness. In his quest to find a solution to fill the void his son's absence left in his life, he looked to unconventional solutions that included dealings with corrupt alchemists.
The Alchemists had already begun to uncover the true nature of Ergo being human souls and memories made tangible in crystalline form.
Simon wanted to amass a massive amount of Ergo to become a god. Gepetto played along with this plan but had ulterior motivations all along.
When we first meet Gepetto in game, the Mad Donkey expressly calls out Gepetto not just for building the puppets responsible for the frenzy but for conspiring with alchemists, and he isn't wrong about this either.
The way I see it, while Simon Manus was drunk on his delusions of grandure, Gepetto was playing puppet master, manipulating him while all along he intended to orchestrate a massacre so big in scale that thousands, if not millions of human lives would be cut short all at once, creating an explosion of concentrated Ergo powerful enough to potentially ressurect his son Carlo.
To enable this, he embedded what amounts to an override command in the form of law 0 in the grand covenant then forces the puppets to slaughter all of the humans in attendance at the Grande Exibition. Simon would've thought this was just a step towards advancing his aspirations while in reality, Gepetto only wanted one thing.
This is the real reason for puppet frenzy. Gepetto wanted his son back, no matter the cost, even if that cost was paid in blood. He intentionally orchestrated the deaths of countless others as a means to accuiring the power source needed to bring Carlo back. He couldn't bear a world without his son in it and he blamed himself for Carlo becoming a stalker, which led directly to his son's death.His mourning became obsession and his obsession led to insanity. Clearly he took things too far but then again, what parent wouldn't do what ever it takes to save their child? The rest of Krat and the world be damned.
I adore the ADD of this analysis. Something interesting comes up, it's talked about and we'll eventually get back to the plot. Great job, and very easy and satisfying watch.
You have no idea how excited I got to see a genuine Gingy breakdown. A masterpiece, well done.
One thing that I found that was missed is that The Nameless Puppet is a person that had their brain surgically removed. The only evidence of this is that a lot of its design highlights that it bleeds red,which wouldn't be significant but the game makes it very clear that only humans bleed red. Puppets bleed oil, carcasses bleed blue, but people have crimson blood. On top of that, they go out of their way to make a cutscene where it's skull gets cut open revealing that it had its brain removed and that it's left arm isn't it's original one. I think it would be fitting if this was Carlo's original body that Geppetto tried to reanimate using ergo but it very likely isn't. At the very least it confirms he wasn't above human experimentation, putting him in leagues with the Alchemists, and that makes a lot more fall into place. If he was an Alchemist he'd know about Sophia and by making a puppet unbound to The Grand Covenant during a cataclysm, he could assume she'd guide him to successfully stopping the Frenzy and Manus, all the while gathering a TON of ergo along the way. He couldn't have just kept the ergo for him self, the other alchemists would've stopped him for being greedy and he couldn't use The Nameless Puppet, since it only knew hatred. The Frenzy solved both of those problems since by helping people, Pinocchio learned to show love and compassion and by stopping puppets, gathered ergo (ie Dark Souls 2's story).
I think the puppet frenzy accomplishes everything Geppetto wanted to achieve
In order for Geppetto to revive his son with all the qualities of a human, he needed Ergo to power P’s golden heart. He knew this ergo could not be obtained quickly without notice or question. He needed a conflict to emerge which would put the city in jeopardy, distracting everyone so the ergo could be collected, even if the means were violent. Given Geppetto had control of the puppets with law 0, What better conflict than the puppet frenzy. Creating the puppet king, organizing the puppets to kill humans, corralling all the ergo in the city to a few places for P to clear serves as the perfect scenario for Geppetto.
Not to mention, he needed to give P a reason to hunt the puppets and petrificated zombies for ergo. The puppets mindlessly killing people without reason makes for a good cause to destroy them, much more to destroy the king himself. You don’t need to have a good understanding of ergo to break the puppets, you are doing it for the common good.This along with the strength of quartz and the constant encouragement to end the crisis further proves this theory.
With P collecting Ergo from the crisis to bolster the hearts energy without qualm makes for a good scheme wouldn’t you say
Though I will say I don’t think Geppetto expected Simon Manus to take over the crisis as he did, hence why he was suprised and genuinely interested in ending the petrification disease.
Makes you wonder what type of stuff Geppetto actually thinks about. He will sacrifice millions for his son but will save another million for the good of Krat. He will kill someone in cold blood but mourn unrelated deaths. How does he truly weigh decisions and morales.
but, the puppets were actually helping people, well at least normal people. they were only attacking petrified monsters. so why does geppetto want us to destroy the only line of defense krat has?
@@fruits050thats not true though
As shown in the opening cutscene puppets WERE killing regular people until Romeo started to ACTUALLY take control
the main lesson I took from this game is that Carlo's judgment of his father was 100% spot on.
I mean, he took apart Carlos mother after letting her die, fucking hell.
@@fruits050 I know I am like a few months late but this is what I know from the game. Geppetto didn't originally make the puppets to kill people, he made the puppets to help others, which was way before Carlo passed away. When Carlo passed away, that's when he realized he could bring him back with a ton of Ergo, hence the creation of the P Organ and starting the frenzy, to collect as much Ergo as possible from people of Krat.
As for the last line of defense, they puppets were the last line of defense because Geppetto put Romeo in charge, he made him the king of puppets and so the puppets are all under his command. That's why the puppets are keeping the Petrification monsters at bay and when Romeo dies, they come out, because Romeo was using the power he had to keep as many people safe (those that are still alive at least) as possible.
Geppetto still wants Pinocchio to kill the puppets and the last line of defense for the Ergo. He needs a lot of it to bring his son back, as that's what gives people life, it's their soul and personality. So he creates a P organ, which collects Ergo, starts a frenzy, kills a ton of people, sends P in there to collect it all. As for why he has us kill Romeo, I believe (and this is just theory) it was to use him as a scapegoat. Geppetto is easily the type of person to mess up and blame everyone else.
His son dies, he blames it on everyone else but himself, he starts a frenzy, what better way to not take responsibility then blame it on the King of Puppets himself. So he send P over to Romeo, tells him he is the reason the frenzy happens, and Romeo tries to tell him something different. Romeo falls, the frenzy somewhat stops and there's less puppets, but now there are petrification monsters. What do Petrification monsters still have, Ergo, because they used to be people that were experimented on by the Alchemist. Now there is even more Ergo to be collected, he has P make his way up the tower, and he gets the Arm of God, the only other ingredient that can bring his son back, plan is complete and no one suspects a thing. Geppetto doesn't care who he hurts or kills, as long as he gets what he wants, and what he wants is not just his son, but an obedient version of his son that would do anything he asks.
This is all just what I got from the game and other videos I have seen so I can easily be wrong, but this is what I think is the reason for everything
I haven't used specters this whole game. While that has been extremely difficult it's also been very rewarding. 9/10.
I mean the specters die in 2.5 seconds anyway
Yeah the Spector AI is sooooo bad I don’t even know why they are there…went thru 15 on king flame was honestly easier with out
I only used it on the watchman and the green monster. The rest I wanted the satisfaction of doing the game solo
I thought that the Frenzy was a result of Geppetto ordering the Puppets to fight against the Petrification Plague, but the problem is that people tend to be infected before symptoms develop, so the Puppets wound up eliminating a huge portion of a densely populated city. I thought that the plague was released by the Alchemists as a way of creating more Ergo, which, as you pointed out, was how they believed that they could achieve immortality; and Giangio was probably the mastermind (if not simply an invested observer) of this plot to try to create an Immortal Fable.
this checks out but why were we killing the puppets tho? why would geppetto send us to kill the useful things? (useful as in, they are protecting people from petrification beasts)
@@fruits050 Geppetto didn't though. Sophia is the one that released us, and the other puppets attacked us because we were not bound by the Covenant, so we were automatically a target. Collecting the Ergo of other puppets, though, is something Geppetto wanted, because that is what made our P-organ (lol) strong enough to ressurrect his son.
@@fruits050
Ergo is stored in the P-Organ :P. But in all seriousness, Pinocchio's heart being able to absorb ergo was beneficial to Geppy's goals.
Looks like theyre making a Dark Fairytale universe.
Imagine having to fight a bunch of eldritch flying monkeys or something lol. A Grimdark Oz would be kind of cool
YES GINGY, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED.
Just finished the game 3 days ago and i've BEEN ITCHING for some lore videos.
Cringe
I think Simon and his actions make some sense when you imagine that he has known what everyone around him thinks. His father his friends geppeto no one’s secrets are safe and their lies are known wanting lies to disappear so he does have to experience this weird existence makes sense. He wants to become a god because he’s a narcissist lol.
I think that he would be more interesting if godhood wasn't in his motives but villain egotist got to villain i suppose. would have been more compelling if he just didn't want to hear their lies and live that way. Removing the ability to lie would be a much more interesting with that mindset.
@@henrypaleveda7760 While ego is part of it, I believe the godhood thing is mostly to make sure his plan sticks
@@BeefMeisterSupreme so he doesn't ant to remove the ability to lie, but rather just make lying taboo?
@@henrypaleveda7760 He wants to make sure the ability to lie stays removed, even if people are "evolved", they may "evolve" the ability to lie again, he wants to nip that in the bud by becoming god and stamping it out if it arises again
I’m here within 2 minutes of it dropping I feel lucky as hell
Here 45 mins later but still lucky 🍀
Y'all are lucky because you was sitting on the phone when a video dropped ???
Here within 2 hours of it dropping, which is good for me personally lol
@@James-cd2xlyes sir
Finished the game last night ! I’ll be honest I’m not really a fan of FromSoftware games or its cousins. But let me tell you: if Baldur’s Gate 3 and WH40K Rogue Trader weren’t released in 2023, Lies of P would have been my sleeper hit GOTY! That’s how much fun I had
have u tried Bloodborne or Sekiro ?
if the mainline souls series (demon souls, dark souls trilogy, elden ring) is not your thing you should still give bloodborne and Sekiro a try cuz they feel wildly different especially Sekiro.
and since u loved Lies of P i really think you will enjoy both of these games really well. give them a try
@@btchiaintkidding7837 thanks! I actually enjoyed Elden Ring, it was my GOTY. Sekiro was awesome and Bloodborne is a masterpiece just in art style alone! I’m one of the few who want a PC port
Loved the video don't get me wrong, but the opening line "Lies of P is a soulslike with a very mysterious story" felt very "water is wet"
You postulated that the Arm of God might have been Simon's arm, but I don't think that's the case.
In the post credits scene, right before Giangio mentions Dorothy, he says "besides, he's going to want his arm back", implying the God that the arm belongs to is associated with whatever organization Paracelsius belongs to. Also, I've seen it theorized that Paracelsius might be Peter Pan, because the letter he leaves you in the post game is signed "-P. P. "
How do you get paracelsus name right and wrong at the same time?
Don’t think it’s Peter Pan. Got my money on him being The Mad Hatter. My guess is he’s gonna be a big deal in the next game, possibly starting as a helpful NPC and then growing crazier and crazier and being revealed as a baddie.
Late comment but one of the item descriptions mentions of an alchemist named “Phillipus Paracelsus”. I think it was one of the items you get from laxasia
Late to the party but a few things I noticed.
1: The description of the arm mentions a god that, one way or another tore themselves apart. I don't believe that describes Simon since we kill him ourselves.
2: Way back in the church there is a series of documents that imply that some sort of powerful relic was stolen from the alchemists, a relic so powerful that the archbishop could use it to drive the alchemists away from Krat. Looking at the designs for the monsters both the Archbishop and Simon turn into, there are a lot of similarities (humanoid torsos emerging from cagelike structures on their bodies) that would imply that the relic the archbishop stole was in fact the Arm of God, leading him to go through the same transformation Simon did. The only difference is that Simon planned to use his transformed self to absorb all the gathered Ergo, making himself a 'god'.
Geppeto is an evil mastermind, and he knew Simons plan all along. He also created the puppet and the p organ in advance since he was nowhere near you once you activate, AND he already had a use for the heart.
The book by the piano in the hotel says that Pinocchio was actually the favorite book of the son of Geppeto, although the cricket says that he somehow can’t remember the name, and that is because Geppeto doesn’t want people to make the connection to P.
But from that, it is safe to assume that P is not Pinocchio. Because Geppeto only started obsessing about Carlo after he died, and the book might have given him a fitting idea, it was his son’s favorite after all.
He knew puppets were gaining personalities of people long past because of Arlechino and others that were becoming self aware.
Wizard of Oz is most probably a sequel rather than DLC. Might be interesting - a world of Souls like games where fairy tales are linked. Interpretations of monsters in those tales would be a sight to see.
This game is so good, like I haven’t felt this way about a souls like game since my first souls game in ds3. Legitimately one of the best games I have ever played
The reason the puppet frenzy occurs is answered in the "Become a real boy" ending, where after reviving Carlo, the next step is effectively restarting the frenzy. Geppetto's solution to the petrification sickness and ensuring Carlo's safety is to kill everyone and turn them into puppets. This makes more sense when, after that same ending, you get a loading screen tip revealing Carlo died from the Petrification disease.
Also, I do find a lot of the criticisms about the alchemist's goal to 'create a world without lies' to be unfounded. The goal had little to do with wanting revenge from being abandoned but from the fact he could /read fucking minds/. He knew whenever someone he was talking to was plotting to betray him, or being dishonest, or tried to manipulate him. There was no giving them the benefit of the doubt that normal people do. As a result, he wanted to create a world where he wouldn't experience those lies and betrayal from everyone.
Think about it. Most people have met someone in their life; a family member, a partner, a friend who just fucking lies all the time. Lies to the point where you know whatever they're saying is always a lie. Imagine if that person was LITERALLY EVERYONE
that's a great point to defend Simon's motives
I think his motives make sense, but I think how they implemented it at the end makes him seem like typical bad guy at the end. He wants to stop lies, true but he also wants massive power and to become a god. Personally, I think the ending would fit a bit better if he just tried to use the power to make a new world and we fought some kind of manifestation of that power instead of him himself, but that’s just me.
I don't know if it's the same for everyone that's a massive fan of bloodborne and souls games, but this indeed scratched that itch for me in a very good way. There's stuff in this game that definitely needed to be ironed out some more, but I 100% agree to the sentiment that this is the best souls-like(not made by fromsoft) that's ever come out. The metacritic score doesn't even do this game justice. This is an 84-85 at least.
Few discrepancies.
SPOILERS AHEAD
1. Lying *does* actually have an effect on some NPCs. Let's say you lie to the Atoned and perform the Stalker's Salute. At some point, returning will have her turn hostile when she figures out you're not actually a Stalker. Or at least, that's what happened to me. Furthermore, each lie you tell increase's P's Humanity level, which is crucial for determining whether you'll get the good or true ending, along with whether or not you granted Sophia's final wish and gave her peace, thus absorbing her Ergo.
2. The puppet's actual "name", so to speak, is P, according to the devs and artbook.
3. The man Geppetto worked with is more likely to have been Venigni's father rather than Venigni himself, or at least, that was the case at first.
4. The Alchemists *and* the Technicians made use of Ergo. The Alchemists are using it for biological enhancements, hence Simon Manus' pursuit of immortality. The Technicians, led by Geppetto, were using it to create automatons.
5. Geppetto very likely caused the Frenzy for two reasons. First, he needed to keep the Alchemists out of Krat until everything he needed (P, a sufficient amount of Ergo, etc) was in place. Second, Ergo is more easy to acquire by killing humans. The Frenzy was caused specifically to gather a massive quantity of Ergo. He asks P to stop Romeo because he needs a scapegoat, and he needs the Alchemists back in Krat to begin the final stages of his plan; in other words, Simon needs to use the Ergo-gathering properties of the Arm of God.
6. The real Stalker name of the man posing as Alidoro is "Parrot". The true Alidoro was Eugenie's brother, and both are implied to have come from "the land to the east", given the description of the Two Dragons Sword.
i just want to say that your retelling of the story and the highlights on the details were absolutely fantastic and everything i've ever wanted in lore videos. thanks for giving this game a go and making such a great video on it :)
I feel like the ending hints at simons dad being the wizard of oz and how he was seen as a god but was a fraud
I will point out the Parade Master at the beginning is meant to represent the Coachman from the story. Judging by his dialogue which mentions taking you to Toys Land (and his cage he carried to gather children). Toys Land or Pleasure Island is where Pinocchio becomes a literal jackass. It does make more sense since the dialogue is coming from Romeo. Again his friend from Toys Land.
Another being a stalker who wears a weasel mask. In the story a pair of weasels trick Pinocchio to help em steal chickens. All while Pinocchio had to replace the owner’s guard dog.
30:08
I actually felt this.
I thought that Sophia was somehow going to turn into a monster or something, or the following boss would be extremely powerful if I killed her (because I thought she was acting as interference for the Ergo consumption. Just strange ideas I guess.
Lying or not actually has some big effects. I didn't 'lie' to Julian the Gentleman, and so he killed himself, gave me a bloody wedding ring that I couldn't use to show to a certain butler, and lost both a reaction and a quartz for another mission because of it. Also, lying to a certain guard dictates whether you get her disk, and our resident weapon smith gives you a different record depending on what you tell them. Lies aren't pointless, and I had to play NG+ because I made a mistake on what lies to tell.
Really love your videos! Especially for the souls like games! I’m not a fan of games of this genre but I love the lore behind them. So I appreciate all of these! Keep up the great work!
Me too lol strangely enough i wanna try out lies of p tho 😭idky
It’s much harder
Somehow, I felt soo much more emotion than any other Souls game.
When they destroyed Hotel Krat, I felt genuine anger. I had fire in my eyes fighting the black brotherhood, and killed “Alidoro” without a second thought.
And I even cried listening to Memory of Beach, that never happened to me before in a Souls game.
The rewards change depending if you tell the truth or not in a lot of cases actually
If you look closely, you will see that only the maiden puppet was weeping after puppet king died. This is because the original maiden puppet was actually the first puppet that was discovered with human emotions. The alchemists did many experiments on her and eventually mass produced her as a house maiden after, essentially, removing her emotion.
I'm thinking the alternate dimensions mentioned throughout Lies of P might play into Dorothy's story. The butterflies are supposed to exist in other dimensions, and I believe Simon's god-daddy also exists out-of-universe, so maybe Dorothy is transported to an "Oz" setting and has to fight her way through to make it back home. "There's no place like home," and all that jazz. (Really hoping it's a sequel but I'll be happy just to get more lore and story for this Universe, will purchase regardless!!!)
Also wanted to point out I picked up something in-game that mentioned Krat is completely closed off to the outside world because the city was afraid its puppet technology would be stolen. It's the reason the Petrification Disease runs so rampant; doctors from outside struggle to get in to help. Makes me wonder what the rest of the world looks like or if there are other cities like it. Could be that the "Emerald City" setting is in-reality instead of extradimensional but is experimenting with those other dimensions. Could lend itself more to an eldritch or cosmic horror than steampunk vibe for the game, though our favorite Wizard is definitely a steampunk patriarch.
The creators of Lies of P did a really good job writing this setting and gave themselves a lot of freedom to take the world(s) wherever they want!
love the content! you’ve got some great analysis! still re-watch your soma analysis every few weeks.
stay up, brotha!
lies of p is so damn good bro im so excited for the next game, its become second place in my top 3 and i cannot have asked for a better game. the combat is so fun and skillful and its everything i could have wanted.
If you replay the story you can see what the puppets garbled speech says, w Venigni’s Ergo Wave Length Decoder. Fuoco was saying stuff like, “we fight for humans” and “remember, you’re one of us”. From what I remember. Puppet Watchmen also talks about Tomas, and the other children.
Arlechinno is possibly a reference to Brau-1589, a robot from the manga Pluto (itself a reimagining of a story in Astro Boy). Brau was the first robot to murder humans and seemingly enjoy it, and was also pierced and disabled and locked away much like Arlechinno
Bro….. the sheer disrespect for venigni is criminal.
Venigni is literally the most good hearted person in the game. Hes done everything he possibly could the protect and help the people, even at his own risk.
Hes the biggest bro for P too.
I CANNOT stand for this slander.
What I find cool is the fact that the book you see at the train table in the post credit scene is a first edition of wizard of oz.
Quick correction at the 33 minute mark about Simon and the alchemists not being very present in the game until the end; you see Simon several times in cutscenes in the beginning stages of the game (such as the victory cutscene against the archbishop) and you also first meet him at the champion victor boss fight, where you also catch a short glimpse of laxasia. Otherwise, good video, enjoyed listening to it while playing.
Geppetto uses the puppet frenzy under false pretenses (telling the puppets they are purging petrification disease) when really he wants humans dead and replaced with puppets, as he has control over puppets. This is seen if you go back to the hotel before starting a new game and after choosing the ending where Carlo is resurrected. He wants this control so nothing can ever take Carlo away from him again. Geppetto’s whole motivation is born from selfishness and grief
This game absolutely deserves a franchise...I never thought it would turn out to being this good. Its far from perfect, but its heavily outweighed by its pros, and makes what I think to be the best souls-like game yet.
The idea of a fairy-tale extended universe of souls like games sounds more versatile than the original souls series if done right.
Reminds me a little bit of how the Percy Jackson books started with the Greek Pantheon then brought in Roman, Egyptian, Norse myths to make a huge collage of personalities, power systems and how they all come together under a modern-day umbrella.
Super super unique and just a badass concept
Agreed; Definitely reminds me of what Riordan did.
Percy Jackson goated
Simon is not a god, he is descended from one of the few people who survived the original blessings of the ‘Angel’ whatever it was, that gifted the survivors immortality. But he was considered a failure by his father, possibly because aside from reading minds, Simon was just a regular human in strength.
I like that Lies of Pinocchio perhaps shows what a society based on progress would be like. Reminds me of Rapture but done in a more nuanced way.
You're missing the whole point, a society based on progress will always fail cause they've lost their humanity...
Are you an npc? That felt like an npc thing to say.@@tianzhou1244
@@codydagg2259 lol that's the opposite of npc, they would agree with you about progress..
bye bye@@tianzhou1244
@@tianzhou1244dude, it's ✨fiction✨. Technical advancement is necessary in society. If it wasn't for the technical advancement, you wouldn't have this game
What I love is you learn a lot in ng+ all that static looking puppet talk? Yeah it gets turned clear. We learn through a speaker that the puppet king wants to defend the humans and has ordered the puppets to kill the monsters with the petrification disease. Which is likely why they were burning corpses. And the scrapped watchmen? He talks about children dying and blames us, he then says several names of children. Romeo actually speaks instead of needing to read subtitles. He has a unique voice. And upon death he thanks Carlo for true freedom.
Enjoyed the video and your explanation of it. I agree that it is pretty refreshing for a game to use a retelling of a well known story as a basis. Though it seems that the execution on building on that story could have been better. The aesthetics of the game was also a got my attention.
I love and appreciate the fact that the producers gave you an early access and you had no problem dismantling and stating the many negative aspects of the game, such as ripping off a certain game series.
Your confusion about the puppets frenzy comes from you not knowing what ergo is. Ergo is basically the souls of people, it contains their personalities and memories.
Note that a person's ergo tends to scatter. When a puppet gains its ego, it's not totally complete - this is precisely the reason to why he needed the frenzy to happen. More death means more ergo. He needed to collect it and then, with the help of the Gods hand, selectively stitch Carlo's ergo back together.
P in this story actually contains most of Carlo's ergo already, this is revealed during the final boss fight where Gepetto admits that P seems to have traits of his son's personality.
In the end, P sheds a tear for his father, which basically tells us that Gepetto had his son with him all along. Missing memories is all that separated P from the real deal.
Also, to answer why Gepetto wanted Romeo's death (Carlo's best friend). He hoped to extract Romeo's ergo, which contained memories with Carlo. Romeo would be one of the most important puppets to kill actually.
@@WisperArtit make sense considering killing him is what makes P/Carlo more human something even Geppeto is surprised about it maybe he thought P was just a vessel for Ergo and his son memories but he never realize that puppet was actually Carlo until the very end maybe due to his ignorance of what Ergo is capable of
@@elektra8535 I have to say - I think the P organ is actually Carlo's s heart, just mechanized. That's why most of his ergo was there. And Gepetto was aware that the heart is the most important part.
Carlo's entire body was mechanized (which is very disturbing to me). He experimented on his son's corpse while attempting to create his first puppet. But only after he became good at creating puppets, he made the P organ and separated it from Carlo's body. This is why I think that he actually knew that a lot of Carlo's essence was in P, he simply wasn't satisfied enough with his new son. A perfectionist that wanted to create the ideal copy of his son. At least, that's how I read his motivation.
You know, watching this video made me want to re-read the Pluto manga. The king of riddles is literally that robot stuck in the wall from the manga. If I’m getting it right, even tho Gepetto made all the puppets go crazy, the King still tried to make the puppets stop the alchemists?
I think Gipetto needed the puppet frenzy to amase enough ergo or souls at the alchemists tower to bring Carlo back to life.
Another implication with the Giangio end scene, given he is revealed to be Paracelsus, perhaps implying the real world Philliupus Paracelsus. Remember that when you go back to the tree to get more wish stones, the NPC has left, but leaves a note signed by P.P. So given that information I think "Lies of P" may not be referencing Pinnochio, but Paracelsus instead, and the Wizard of Oz teaser could be Lies of P 2 rather than DLC.
The item description for the Uroboros's Eye Weapon actually says this. "They say this weapon was handcrafted by a legendary Alchemist. Philippus Paracelsus was a legend even among the Alchemists".
Lies of D hahaha
Later in the video you said “Gappetto wants to revive his son, but how does the puppet frenzy accomplish that?”
I think he wanted to bring more life into the puppets and it went horribly wrong. I think this ties in with his unprocessed grief for his sons passing, hence the creation of “P”
I don't think there's gonna be a Dorothy (wizard of Oz) dlc, but a full game. It's just amazing if you think about it. To have all those old of fairy tales in soulsborne style ❤ I hope Alice in wonderland is after wizard of Oz!
I hope it’s a dlc. It’ll take forever to release if it were a whole game
@@couchpotato5657 I think it has content enough for a full game... I think we will get a DLC related to that green stargazer (or maybe that's our ticket to Oz)
American McGee's Alice and Madness Returns set the bar pretty high tho... kinda hope for a dark rendition of Peter Pan maybe. There's a lot of material to work with there.
@@willianantunes8975 Maybe, makes me wonder more... but Green Stargazer makes me wonder for the EX weapons...
If the intent is to continue the story or use the Green Stargazer, I don't know if there is enough of a Significant Release date for this one (Lies of P was released for the original story's 140 years, while the Land of Oz debuted in the year 1900, and I'm not sure if you can do a signficaint milestone FOR that setting itself without running into number thoughts)
Puss in Boots soulslike LETS GOOOOO
The Wizard of Oz tie in is interesting. I wonder if each fairy tale will tie in with one of Dorothy's companions.
This game had a metal man focusing on his mechanical heart. I wonder if next we'll skip to a Puss in Boots story or some other Cat themed tale for the cowardly lion and another about a bird themed character to be the scarecrow stand in.
All coming together for Dorothy. Anyway, great analysis. Thank you.
The scarecrow could be from either Jack and the Beanstalk or, potentially, from the Hound of the Baskervilles.
Pinnochio and the tin man wouldn't really be consideredd the same IMHO. P needs a heart to become human, but the tinman was looking for a brain. 🧠 my prediction is that Dorothy would assume the role of P and the scarecrow, tinman, and lion would be NPC type characters like the ones in Hotel Krat. just a hypothosis
@@anotherastronaut_
The scarecrow was looking for the brain. Tin man asked for the heart. Think you got those mixed up.
There is consequences to lies, there are rewards you miss out on from not lying, also I have had at least one character die because I choose to tell a truth instead of a lie. It can cause you to get a different ending as well, and miss out on a special weapon. Also in the after credits scene, hes clearly talking about the person the "arm of god" belongs to as well. Which means its likely they are the ones who put it there, which caused most of the issues.
The ending where you allow Gepetto to take your heart almost feels canon to the story. At the end where you hand your heart over you're a lonely boy in a mansion full of toys and servants to keep you company while your father is busy at work. The world outside the mansion is dangerous, so you just bide your time around the house. Or you sneak out to be a devious boy.
However at the end the boy was able to inherit the powers of the Blue Fairy. And honestly? I wonder if restarting at the big star gazer to new game plus isn't just the boy being bored and turning back the clock.
Who knows how many times he's redone the game.
This game reminds me of a Bloodborne/Sekiro mashup. It’s rough in some spots, like a bunch of bosses using the same animations but they just have different exteriors and not a lot of mob variety but for a first shot at a souls-like I think they knocked it out of the park. Way better than Thymesia, and the first Lords of the Fallen. Maybe wait for a sale if you’re on the fence, but definitely must play.
Not that I don't believe people should share opinions on things, but I watched this video for the full lore purely because I enjoyed the game enough to do so. The constant souls born comparison/jabs and personal opinions on what you thought was good and wasn't could have been cut back a bit.
Yeah, I feel you. If it's his style then whatever, but I'm not interested in all that smartassery.