Every souls like should have this like sekiro, at least add it in a late patch like 6-9 months after launch But they refuse to do it since it will effect the play time, they want you to replay the whole game
Absolutely something happened to me is when i was training for som bosses to beat them no hit i kiled them by mistake and had to finish and replay the game to have my no hit 😢☠️
Yeah, they should have made the enemies have way different fighting styles depending on what they were. Puppets: very to the point and logical, sometimes delayed to get the springs rolling for a bigger hit. Humans: Have feints and blocks, but mostly a fluid fighting style, and for Carcasses: Pure aggression, more like an animal going all out.
Yeah the parry window is not as bad as I had thought... but the attacks that are delayed and then instant make it feel like a complete dice roll... feels bad
Facts, it feels less like I messed up and more like the game messed with me just to kill me. I had to come to terms with playing in ways I don't normally like just to get by, because playing skillfully is punished hard
@@SchmeatboyI can 100% agree with the fact that skillful play gets you fucked hard. I’ve had instances of attacks I know the timing of still getting through at times. The parry window is way too narrow for a game where attacks come out so fast after being held
One thing that is weird to me is that the red attacks don't always 'feel' like a big scary attack, like a big event in the fight. Sometimes they have just taken a basic attack and made it into a fury attack, and this is compounded by the fact that it just seems dropped into movesets- enemies can randomly chain them. They should've been given more of a special status, where you really saw it coming in terms of animation, not just colour...
Fury attacks should've just been grabs. They add nothing but frustration to the combat because like you said even common enemies have them and can chain into them.
That's what upset me when i was fighting bosses like Victor. It feels like there are no rules to this game for what a red attack should be, besides that it's supposed to trick the player and get them hit lol.
My problem with the bosses is that the delayed attacks are so comically animated that it doesn't even feel like I'm fighting an actual being trying to kill me, rather than fighting a drunken wizard that falls asleep during half of their attacks. Bosses like Sword Saint Isshin and Owl Father show that you can have incredibly difficult and engaging bosses without resorting to obnoxiously delayed attacks that rely on pure memorization.
Yeah Elden Ring has the same issue with all these delayed attacks which is an easy way to make the game more difficult but it can be very annoying and frustrating especially at first. What’s a little bit immersion breaking for me is when the attacks are so damn delayed that you can literally just run out of the way and don’t even bother deflecting it. Like Laxasia’s delayed slam in phase 1 takes so damn long to come out you could leave and make a coffee then come back and she’d still be holding the attack. You don’t even need to deflect it you can just run away or strafe it which kinda defeats the purpose. But her ultra fury slam in phase 2 can feel almost impossible to deflect the way it comes out instantaneously which can be very frustrating to figure out
idk if you're counting the 2nd owl fight, because I know that fight has multiple very delayed moves. The main one that comes to mind is his overhead slash, but some of his combos in 2nd phase are super delayed with him teleporting around. The issue with lies of P is the camera, not the animations. I think if they gave the game a more sekiro-esque camera instead of a bloodborne/souls camera the bosses would be way easier to read.
@@rohansensei5708I could read the delays for the most part in Elden Ring, but with this game is feels awkward for most bosses, the only ones I really liked the delays on werr Victor and the Archduke since they felt more like Elden Ring bosses
I'm apparently in the niche minority but I really enjoyed BOTH black rabbit brotherhood fights. It reminded me of ornstein and smough how each character was different, with their own move set and attack patterns and speeds, reaches. I thought it was really well done, like if you mixed 4 kings with ornstein and smough, which is high praise if that's what it reminds me of.
I agree, this is one of the best ways to do a gank fight. The Koreans really took their notes on how the souls formula works before developing this game and added their own twist. This is a worthy soulslike and for me at least it's up there with with the soulsborne in terms of quality. The amount of detail in both lore and mechanics (level design is nothing mind blowing in terms of shortcuts so not too many ''wtf'' moments) is astounding. I loved all the boss fights, they never felt unfair but were a good challenge.
@constantinesoldatos yeah I thought all the fights were good, some top tier and easily on par with from softs best. The main boss I liked the least was probably manus just because of his really awkward design. That and his attacks were kinda wonky and unnatural as well, but it was by no means a bad fight, the second phase is better than the first I'd say. Most people seemed to not like the black rabbit brotherhood and I really don't see why, not every fight is an elegant duel, some fights are street brawls and that's what fighting the brotherhood feels like.
@@Anubiszz512zz quote: ''every fight is an elegant duel, some fights are street brawls and that's what fighting the brotherhood feels like.'' Yup you pretty much nailed it
black rabbit brotherhood is how you design a gank boss fight, each of them waits patiently while only one attacks at any given time. not like the lazy excuse of a boss fight godskin duo where the devs just chuck two individual bosses you previously encounter(who aside from their similar attires, shares no synergistic attacks) into a single arena and expect you to deal with it
The fact that Elden Ring that had like 50 gank bosses and not 1 of them can match the quality of BRB is astounding. I genuinely don't understand the hate for this gank when Elden Ring AND even my baby Sekiro's gank encounters are much more frustrating. Yeah, DS1 and DS3 probably have better ganks, but that doesn't diminish just how well designed BRB is and how, regardless of what people think of LoP, it is easily one of the better gank fights in all of souls. Again, probably not better than O and S, Twin Princes, Demon Princes, Ashes of Cinder or Friede and Ariandell, but for a first game, coming this close is genuinely worthy of high praise.
The thing about laxaxia is that the second phase feels so cool to watch but it's a nightmare to play for the more casual part of the community, her attacks are just full of high dashes that make it look like boogie woogie from jujutsu kaisen and her jumps that take so long to fall and then when she does attacks it's ultra fast
My one gripe about the boss is that in second phase she jumps away a lot and since enemies heal after a bit it was a little frustrating to keep up with her. I was also using the poison great sword blade that gives you acid damage when you use its fable attack and its hard to use fable cuz of electric. But in reality I want to fight her again so I can’t wait to see what happens in my NG+ run
I hate her lunge attack. And what makes it more bullshit is that u can actually see her charge up attack if u don't deflect the lightning balls back. If u deflect them, they hide her charging up her lunge which is just adding bullshit just for the sake of difficulty.
This might be contrarian, but I think perfect guard frames are as tight as they need to be. Guarding, dodging, and surprisingly running away are all effective defensive options. You can juat book it any time a boss goes red and miss (usually). Perfect guarding is just one tool in your toolbox. I never got consistent with it (I'd choose one or two combos to perfect guard and avoid the rest) but beat the game thanks to all the other mechanics.
Exactly. The game is all about thinking critically on each attack and taking your current situation in before deciding on what defensive strategy you will use to avoid damage. I really like that the new update made you recover health after a block easier because it makes blocking a better defensive option, which is nice because it did feel worse than dodging most of the time.
Can’t think of a boss I genuinely didn’t love fighting ESPECIALLY closer to the end. I think delayed attacks make you keep your brain on and I enjoyed them. Really enjoyed this game as a whole, I’m surprised to see that’s not as unanimous as I thought.
I think it's because people are trying to play it like a FS game when it's not. These boss ranking videos from when the game first came out are all like where the boss that are the most FS like are at the top and they say a majority of them are bad because that's how they played the game and were unwilling to approach it differently. Billy S' video on the game lightly touched on this mentality a lot of people had/have and I agree with what he had to say.
@@desestscourge6240But it IS a FS game or as close to it as possible. Every fight mechanic in tbis game has already existed beforehand in the souls series. The problem people are having aren't the parries, low dodge i frames or "trying to play it as a FS game", the problem they have is that attacks in this game require memorization. Everything is delayed, enemies stop their swings in mid air which realistically would topple them over, 8+ hit combos.. These are the ACTUAL complaints people have which you would know if you listened to them and not only repeated what a youtuber told you
@@tomekk.1889 idk, I didn't memorize a lot of the fury attacks. People act like you HAVE to perfect guard but you can also avoid most of them entirely as they have some of the worst tracking out of most bosses entire moveset. Archbishop you can just run under, and Victor you can just get out of the way for. I haven't beat the game yet but I run under 30% and I just get the fuck outta there instead of taking a horrible risk/reward option that people think they are forced to take. People refuse to adapt and then get pissed at the game bc they can't play it on their terms
@@zomorion9183 it's been a minute so I might have a fuzzy memory but for the swamp monster: his charge can be avoided by just running in circles I believe (could be wrong but it's also the easiest fury attack to block in the whole damn game) and his slam can be avoided by strafing around to his back. Laxasia you're probably unable to avoid a lot of the attacks, but for one of her fury attacks you can dodge it by getting behind her right shoulder. If there's any I missed lmk bc it's been a while since I played, but yeah I did my first playthrough as a mostly dodge based run and I didn't have an issue with fury attacks. Perfect guarding does give you better openings on a lot of em, like the swamp monster charge
What makes the decay damage on the corrupted circus dude even more annoying is that you can't teleport to a merchant to buy more status effect cures If you didn't have any going into the fight or run out. The only thing that stopped it from being miserable was someone in my chat pointing out that I could use the instant repair kits I'd never touched to keep from having to spend a ton of time repairing, As the damage wasn't as much of an issue because it wasn't a very hard fight if it weren't for the fact that I constantly had to be juggling my weapon durability.
I hate how whenever a valid issue arises in a soulsborne game people immediately say it’s a skill issue. Like no, not everyone is a gaming prodigy and you shouldn’t expect people to just “git gud” or not be able to enjoy the game whatsoever.
and sometimes it isn't even an issue of skill. it's just terrible game design. Soulsborne fans will always protect the original 1.0 version of a game so religiously that it's comically absurd. it's like trying to reprimand an artist for filling in a blank spot on a painting.
@@anonymousperson8903 dunno how you got that impression. a lot of the bosses in Elden Ring were just using cheap tactics and even had completely broken attacks. such as Redhan's sword having a hitbox so big that it hits you twice in the same attack. you can cope and chalk it up to a skill issue all you want, but all it does is make you look like an insecure little bitch.
I really enjoyed this game the most upsetting feature though is near every boss having two health bars for no reason, I think victor was one of the better bosses having 2 phases but on a single health bar
@@tevenpowell8023 my apologies I thought you were being rude in your first comment I do apologise and I find it’s lazy to add two health bars to every boss in the game just for the sake of difficulty. It makes the fights longer and more exhausting especially if you are struggling with a particular boss for example I think victor is an amazing boss with 2 phases and one health bar and a bad example for the use of two health bars is Archbishop his second phase adds nothing to the fight, it feels they put an extra phase in just for the sake of it, however a boss with two health bars which I think is a good use of the mechanic is Romeo which makes sense since phase 1 is a giant robot and phase 2 is Romeo
King of Puppets commits a cardinal sin of multiphase boss fights, where phase 1 does *nothing* to prepare you for phase 2. It's my biggest gripe, since it makes it feel like you have to learn two completely different boss fights at once...unlike the SUPERIOR Champion Victor fight.
Every boss with 2 health bars (except Andreus) has a completely different moveset in phase 2. They might not have a complete design change like Romeo, but their moveset is heavily changed.
@@Arfadoz Well the archbishop doesen't change his whole moveset if you decide to focus on his back , where is very similar to the first phase , Even simon gains extra moves , but he keeps basic attacks from the previous phase I think the problem with king of puppets (maybe this changes after the patch) is how is exausting the phase 1, because most of his attacks if parried keep spush you back, forcing you to follow him in the whole arena for set a single attack before parry another attack and being push back again , and you can't risk to waste resources on him because you need them for the most harder phase 2
The real cardinal sin is two of them having insane amount of HP even after the nerf. When you design bosses with completely different movesets you have to compensate with giving them low HP like Maliketh.
I've been saying that the the deflect is hard not because the frames are too little, but because the stupid delayed attacks aren't built for this type of game. Couple that with the snappy "animations", those attacks are often unseeable, so you have to play a guessing game instead of reacting. Glad to see someone with similar opinion.
You're not supposed to parry every attack on your first try. First comes dodging and blocking, and then comes the parry once you know the moveset. The delayed attacks forces you to actually learn the moveset of the boss, instead of relaying on your reflexes and shutting down your brain like with Dark Souls bosses.
@@Arfadoz how the hell do you dodge or block fury attacks, which are the most delayed in the game? If you don’t perfect guard then your only option is to run the hell away, which doesn’t work in a lot of cases and will not help you learn the timing.
@@sdotwallace I skipped the final boss on my first playthrough. I beat him with the frozen feast within like 5 attempts on my next, not ng+ playthrough. The fact that you've already gotten to ng+5 tells me you brute forced yourself through the game without actually learning the game.
I still hate Green monster, Fighting it for the first time reminded me of those Corrupted Tree Spirit bosses in Elden ring. The moveset just feels like its a thrashing and flailing mess of hitboxes and I can hardly see what is happening
I love king of puppets as well Possible Stockholm syndrome, but i genuinely wasn’t good at fighting romeo, but I think that I like the first phase more, by a lot
I really enjoy all the humanoid enemy boss fights, yeah the stagger from the quick blows can be annoying but that’s what makes learning their move sets and parrying them all so fun. Parrying a quick flurry of attacks feels so satisfying and only this game has matched that kind of satisfying parry mechanic ever since sekiro. Also the red attacks are delayed but they’re not randomly delayed, you can definitely learn the timing in like 3 tries or just sprint away.
So, about those boss attacks... Post patch, the Laxasia amulet you dunked on in the amulet video is now a totally viable approach to playing through every boss fight. Vitality+Capacity with a bit of Vigor (and/or the +stamina amulet, and the stamina recovery one is probably the best one in the game anyway) grug facetank supremacy. Guard recovery scales hard and doesn't fall off as fast as health does. So you don't need to guess the parry timing when you can just hard block entire combos like Romeo's Firefowl Dance nonsense, then hit him twice with a medium weight weapon and heal back. Or hell, even greatswords may be viable now due to cap buff. Any attack you know the timing of and can confidently perfect guard is a free buildup for poise break if you have that upgrade, or a free boost of rally health. Edit: Holy Sword is probably the single best weapon in the game for this build. Damage of a Greatsword, speed of a Longsword, guard reduction top 3 in the whole game. It does nothing poorly and is probably the best for a defensive rally build with the right P-Organ.
the corrupted parade master does have its place, introducing you to the new tone and pace of the game where you cant summon and where the bosses get harder by showing you a boss thats mostly one youve fought before
For me Archbishop and Simon would be much lower on the list because I felt like I'm fighting a potato that doesn't fit the screen, I can't see their arms behind their body and half of their attacks are delayed. Archbishop even worse because if you go behind him in a second phase you basically repeat the same fight you did in a first phase. Easy D tier boss.
My only gripe is what Youwy touched on is it feels sometimes I get two completely different fights on the same boss. Laxassia or whatever was steamrolling me in phase 2 just sprinting around shooting lightning and the time I finally beat her with 5 flasks remaining she never did that move once. Same with Puppet King. I beat him in 3 tries and never saw him light his scythe on fire.
I highly disagree, fighting the humaoids are the most fun, blocking a long string of melee attacks or weaving past a rush is the best feeling, some of big enemies just stiffly swing at you making it harder to doge or parry since u cant see shit cause of camera, makes for a less intense and constant fight (still amazing though this game is perfect lol)
One thing I'll say is that every fury attack has a clear sign of when you should parry, *except* for one, maybe two attacks. Laxasia's dive attack really does feel punishing as there really isn't a consistent way of countering it unless you're counting in your head when the attack happens. Another is maybe Simon's, as he stays in the air unrealistically long and then comes down like a canonball. The move is simple to dodge, at the very least.
I would personally replace Simon with Swamp Monster phase 1. It's overheads are comically delayed, and have even more comical tracking as a fury attack.
I feel like I’m the only one who had no problems reacting to or parrying Simon’s or Laxasia’s dive attacks. For me Romeo and Scrapped Watchman were much harder.
Nameless Puppet wins the award for the only boss in a soulsborne game I haven’t beaten. It’s so overly frustrating because every single attack is either an unreactable instant slice or a hyper delayed attack with an extremely nebulous identify on where the actual parry goes off. I get he’s the final boss, but he does triple the damage of Simon, and all of his attacks feel extremely unfair
It’s probably one of the most natural feeling bosses to parry imo. Definitely very challenging but completely fair. Even the delayed fury attacks are completely readable so long as you don’t panic. He’s just relentless and demands constant focus. Obviously just my experience but he’s easily the best boss in the game for me and I died 28 times.
Bro that's the thing that's PISSING me off with this game. Some attacks have almost zero fucking telegraphs and just hits you instantaneously. You just got to memorize the attack which is bullshit.
It took a while with this game to put my finger on why it wasn't clicking for me when every Fromsoft game (and most C-tier souls clones!) have been among my favorites ever. But risk=/=reward sums it up nicely. I never feel like my skilled play is rewarded in this game. I can perfect deflect an entire rush of delayed strikes and the boss is still able to follow up with another flurry of blows before I can have a chance to follow it up. It made it so, for me, dodging behind enemies was almost always the better approach. And that play style is better left in the Dark Souls 2 days. This game was beautiful, and had moments of brilliance. I may even check out Neowiz's new releases down the line, because I think there was something here. But the combat never stopped feeling like a miss to me, and i'm certainly never coming back to this game now that I've beaten it once. I read it somewhere else, but "Lies of P's enemies are all playing Sekiro while you're playing Dark Souls 2."
counterargument to the rant: there's a less risky alternative to avoiding fury attacks and that's just to get out of the way, i know it's not possible for all of them but lies of p lets you sprint very quickly and doesn't have as much startup delay as other games in the genreso you'd be surprised how often you can just sprint or even dodge out of the way of a fury attack's hitbox, and oftentimes even get a punish. spacing is such a major aspect in these types of games that i feel like just gets ignored all the time. for my first playthrough i didn't really get great at parrying until around laxasia because she kind of forced me to get good at it, and ofc i wasnt using summons either. i just avoided most boss fury attacks and only parried when it was one i knew i could do consistently. there's also the fact that some fury attacks give you more of a punish if you dodge them compared to if you parry them, for example the nameless puppet's one where he charges up and blinks his eyes before doing a fucking yone q at you, if you just run to the side you will dodge it and are able to turn around and get a relatively consistent punish off it that will almost always result in him jumping behind you and doing another swing that can be punishable with proper dodge timing. on the contrary, the green monster of the swamp, for example, will often start the fight with a charge that's relatively easy to consistently parry, and the boss is put into huge recovery if you do parry it properly, as compared to if you just let it end it's a little awkward to punish. basically, just because you can parry all fury attacks doesn't mean you're supposed to. that's why i think it's such a great mechanic. also, even if you hate it, they give you the option to bypass it with that one boss amulet.
I think their argument was that perfect blocking the flurry should be more rewarding than it is, not that perfect blocking is the only answer. I would broadly say that the game suffers a bit from putting such a heavy emphasis on parrying through the tutorial and skills, even though dodging is still extremely effective. The fist two bosses, for example, teach you to parry as your main form of defense, but trying to rely on this for later bosses is possible, but not at all the most effective strategy for a first play through.
@@TheHeadincharge i think that is mostly due to the fact that this game's intended audience are people who are already into the soulsborne series and as such are familiar with the concept of dodging. now that may be a mistake on their part, but it doesn't make the parry system bad
The frames I am fine with. I can perfect guard Eldest Rabbits spin to win attack all hits. I can perfect guard 90% of the nameless puppets 1st phase. What I have an issue with is the bloodborne spastic attacks wtihout the bloodborne way of dodging them. Also the aforementioned delayed attacks or even delayed into instant smash attacks. Also why do bosses and enemies for that matter have heatlh regen? Nothing worse than doing 6k damage in a combo and then have to guard / dodge an 8 hit combo only to see half that damage was now restored. Totally unnecessary. That is my issues and that is what makes a lot of these bosses just a chore. Everything else about the game is top though so credit where credit is due.
Most of those delayed attacks are downwards strikes so a dodge to the left or right is much easier than perfect guarding. People think perfect guarding is the only option for some reason.
Simon and Nameless puppets were the easiest fights for me. 4 and 2 tries respectively which made the ending so wack for me lol. Laxasia was the toughest for me and she was my favorite boss fight. I had a motivity build with Holy Sword of the Ark throughout the game and that made the last fights trivial
They wanted sekiro style deflection with a darksouls character. Terrible mix. One of the main reasons is that Sekiro had no stamina bar. He could deflection and attack constantly until his stagger bar was broken, just like the bosses, which made the fights feel fair.
What about wo-long? I’ve only played the demo but it felt really good to deflect and seemed like it could work with the traditional dark souls character style
@@splinterskulll Wo-Long is alright. The story is shit, and the game is way easier than most Souls-likes, including its close cousin Nioh. But it’s not bad if you’re bored and want more Sekiro-style deflecting and movement.
I agree. The amount of blocking and dodging required to deal with some of these bullshit flurrys leave you with no stamina to counter attack. They should have either removed stamina management altogether OR made it so that blocking doesnt take stamina since you take chip damage anyway and increase the stamina regen rate
I agree that was the biggest thing was how many bosses and enemies had delayed attacks where they wait 15 years then attack faster than you can react. Also boss arenas were not mad well for most the bosses especially swamp monster
Laxasia and nameless puppet were the most fun for me. I ended up beating King of Puppets on first try because I got lucky, but I kinda wish I hadn't just so I could have spent more time learning and enjoying the fight. Arch bishop, swamp moster 2nd phase, and the second black rabbit brotherhood were absolute ass though, and those are the fights that make me not want to replay the game in NG+.
Question, how do you get so many perfect guards? I noticed this a lot when you talked about the nameless puppet (10:58). You were able to perfect guard multiple attacks in a row (a combo). When i did that, I guarded the first but then my character kept guarding on it's own (after I released the button) so I couldn't perfect guard again in that combo. and at 12:03, you blocked that fury attack way too early but it counted as a perfect guard. I don't get it. I saw that you had the grinder for it but it didn't seem to be active.
perfect guarding actually holds you in place for a second, so using the later part of your s in a dodge can actually get an attack off, when if you guarded you wouldnt have been able to. dodge is not only viable, its good. master that and midrange and throw strats and nothing in the game should give you much trouble (including the health regeneration)
This. For attacks with big knockback it's better to dodge into them. For attacks midcombo a perfect block is usually better if you are already attacking. While yes perfect blocks build up poise damage and weapon break, weapon break is very slow on actual bosses and poise damage is already being built up by extra attacks. This may be different in unupgraded weapon fights, but for standard levelling it's perfectly viable to no hit this way.
I am in chapter 10 and every boss fight so far has been tedious and unfun. The parry window is too tight to be fun like Sekiro, the dodge and input lag makes the game less fun than Bloodborne. The only good thing it has going for it is exploration, but even that is ruined by elites with too much HP. I can't tell you how many enemies I skip fighting because they have too much HP. Not doing it, so of course the game has to rely on forcing you to fight these enemies to proceed in later chapters. I am kind of giving up on the game now because I know the bosses still to come and NOT one of them looks fun to fight in the slightest. Fuck this game.
I actually had the opposite experience with Nameless Puppet. Even on my first attempts, when I got to the second phase I nearly killed it every time. But the first phase would either completely kick my ass or take so many of my cells I had no shot at the second phase
This game’s so near to being a perfect souls-like yet all the small flaws combining makes it a rather frustrating experience with few highs and many many lows
It is almost perfect, there aren't many lows especially after patch 1.2 , the only thing I hate is how a few of the skills like link dodge and fall dodges are put behind the skill tree.
Definitely has alot of flaws but they still did dam good with their first souls like. The fact they made a top 3 souls-like on their first go is kind of crazy when you think about it. I can't wait to see what they have in the future
Romeo is definetly the best boss not because of how he fights but for lore reasons... my only complaint is the placement of his fight and me personally wanting to side with the puppets, even b4 knowing how corrupt gepetto was. In a new game plus when you can finally understand the puppet bosses, it was such a missed opportunity to be able to side with Romeo, your best friend, and have a different branch on the story
Gotta save some things for DLC, am I right? If it means we get more quality soulslikes down the road, I don't mind, but I definitely see where you're coming from.
I really wanna see a miniboss list because aside from like a few bosses there really wasn’t that stood out for me. Minibosses have easily taken the cake as either the best most fun fights or the worlds most egregious painful fights. Also I love how all the worst bosses are like around the halfway point of the game. Both black rabbit brotherhoods , corrupted parade master 🤮 , Swamp Thing , etc
In my opinion BRB 2nd fight wasn’t too bad once you realize that they are easily staggerable with heavy weapons. As for the criticism of the final boss 2nd phase feeing completely different thematically it is because Gepetto wanted to subdue us to use our heart he wasn’t try to kill us, once the strings were severed and Gepetto was no longer controlling the puppet it wanted to destroy our heart. It hated us because that’s all it could feel (item description from amulet) so it makes a lot of sense why it feels so different.
Regarding the Brotherhood fight, only the sister is the fucking mosquito, she evades the most and is the fastest. Spear guy is usually on top of you so you don’t have to chase his ass around and the Saber one isn’t has evasive but the damn sister is just annoying, I make it my priority to kill her first cause of that.
I feel like a ton of people ignore how many ways we have available to deal with Fury Attacks. Fable Arts come in *very* handy. And this video in particular seems to just want to get through bosses as fast as possible in the most basic way possible. Which is fine I guess, but I actually love how long bosses can take because it actually feels like I'm up against a wall. I also enjoy when a phase transition surprises me with a different kind of fight.
Exactly, everyone thinks every fury attack MUST be perfect guarded instead of just avoided entirely, which often nets you a slightly worse opening but with much less risk. Certain fury attacks (archbishop phase two where he's walking around) seem designed to be completely avoided. But people just think any soulslike is a practice in perseverance over adaptation so they never think critically about the attacks being thrown at them.
There really should have been some more telegraphing in certain boss movesets especially for fury attacks. Losing to a fight you could have otherwise beaten first try just because you guessed wrong feels real bad. This is a very case by case basis though, it's not a persistent issue in the game. One huge problem I have is the reoccurring theme of enemies which resemble the basic fodder closely, but have 4x the health, damage, and infinite hyper armor for seemingly no reason. A great example is the crawling puppets that ambush you in the infected train station where the hidden workshop is. Upon seeing them there's no reason to assume they won't resemble the rest of the fodder enemies that you can 2 shot, so you jump in, do like a 6th of their health, then get swarmed by a bunch of them who all have hyper armor. Again this wouldn't be an issue if there was some kind of common signifier through the game that "this jobber is stronger than the typical one", but you just have to figure it out the hard way.
Really surprised with the scathing thoughts on the Black Rabbits 2. Thought they were more than manageable and the added sound queues of them throwing projectiles was more than welcome Plus swamp monster > Victor. That fight's fun as fuck
Just noticed how only the first few bosses have a phase transition without health bar reset and dumb cutscene that deprives you of few precious seconds to heal/buff/sharpen weapon ...
finally someone talking about how staggered some of the attacks are in this game. some bosses in general are just annoying but add in so many delayed moves and its just downright insulting to the player.
Most delayed attacks were easy to parry tho. Just watch their arm. Not sure if you just overly dramatic for the video's sake but it just sounds like you hated half this game lmao.
I honestly enjoy dodging, not having as many Iframes changes the way you play and it was fun. However parry/blocking doesn’t feel good at all. I’m pretty bad at it so I understand is mostly a skill issue but I really hate how it works and feels. Breaking weapons with a perfect block almost makes up for it tho 😂
Dodge is cool, takes a bit of stamina but is better than just block an atack. However, trying to dodge combo atacks like "Romeo's fire rush atack" fells like im dodging Tangiro's hinokami sh## atack Edit: But is very hard to dodge combo atacks, every single hit sometimes comes really fast
I’m stuck with the nameless puppet. Fought him many times. I’m to the point now I’m going to farm here and there until I can level up my capacity crazy high then I’ll go back to him. All me damned if I’m giving up just heart
In my first playthrough I didn't use Specters at all bosses, but on NG+ I used on both fights against Black Rabbit Brotherhood, for me fights against bunch enemies are boring and not fun, you just spam attacks trying to kill one fast, predict a few dodges and that's it. Also I totally agreed with your list: Nameless Puppet, Laxasia and King of Puppets were the best boss fights in Lies of P.
I agree with basically all of this list except for King of Puppets which I think is C tier personally. If the bosses were split up, I’d probably put Romeo in S and the King in B, but I really dislike fights that are essentially two different bosses back to back rather than the second phase being an extension of the first. It just made the play through frustrating for me to have to slog through the first boss just to try to learn a very difficult and fast moveset in a completely different style. I really wish they would’ve somehow split up these fights because I think Romeo by himself would have been a lot more enjoyable.
I saw a video that helped use acid and take out the black rabbit with a puppet string first then the fight get a lot easier then the spear and the little brother can be killed with sharp pole
King of Puppets being number 1 would be fine if it wasn’t for the fact phase 2 just constantly denies healing. There’s a bit of it in the Laxasia fight as well but it’s not as bad as the King of Puppets phase 2.
I think what annoys me more than the delayed attacks are massive bosses in small arenas all having some kind of stampede attack. It's like they purposely made these bosses and moves to fuck with the camera and make it impossible to see what you're doing. I can't tell you how many times I died fighting the puppet monster because his hand nicked me during his charge attack and during the 40 second stumble recover animation P has I get pushed into a corner (where the camera is literally looking inside of the bosses model) and just mowed down from 5-6 hit combos where I can't see anything. When this game is good it's a 10/10 masterpiece, but man when this game sucks it is some of the cheapest poorly designed BS you will ever see.
-Manus 2nd phase is really annoying. It's not fun when you have to ran around most of the time in a boss fight specially in this game. -Lax and Romeo are objectively the best boss fights. -But the boss fight I had the most fun is probably the Black Rabbit gankfest 1. Gankfest 2 was cool too but part 1 was more cinematic and realistic. You feel more of a badass by dunking on those fools.
You hit the nail on the head with Simon Manus, I didn't have issue with HP or damage cause I rolled out with the puppet axe blade with the police baton and had 40 points of vigor with the HP amulet and that one amulet that gives you HP, Stamina and legion. If they made his magic spam alot less periodic, it would actually be a decent fight but they decided to amp up the "final boss" part on the final boss and make it so it's more of a touhou fight then a BB/Sekiro fight. All I did for beating Simon Manus for the first time was to run away for the second phase (keep in mind I couldn't beat him for a good hr or so, took a break, came back, couldn't beat him for another hr then realized that running away completely negates 85-90% of his moveset) That's not good boss design, you literally don't engage with close to almost all of the bosses mechanics in the second phase. I didn't even use specters once throughout the whole game, and beat it without the "nerfs". I was so miffed in the end about Simon to a point where I said fuck it and not do the nameless puppet fight cause my patience have been worn to nothing at that point.
The king of puppets is not S tier (imo). First phase requires you to be near perfect so that you have enough pulse cells to experience the second phase because the move sets are not similar whatsoever. I think on a second playthrough though, the king is A+ tier.
Commenting this on yet another video making the same uninformed complaint: We have no idea how many parry frames the game gives. All we know is how it supposedly "feels," which is completely subjective and personal and can depend on a wide variety of different factors from person to person. For me, except for a small handful of extremely delayed fury attacks, everything felt very intuitive and just needed a good amount of practice. Until the data is dumped and the animations have been analyzed, we don't even know *which frames* of the block animation count as the parry, much less how many there are, so to make assertions about frames is pointless. For all we know, it could be entirely reasonable. You'll have to wait and see.
What I find funny/irritating is that you, a puppet, is easily staggered and has no hyper armor, meanwhile flesh and blood human enemies have all the hyper armor in the world to do their combo attacks with.
I wish they'd add an arena mode or something, so you can re-fight your favorite bosses whenever you want.
Every souls like should have this like sekiro, at least add it in a late patch like 6-9 months after launch
But they refuse to do it since it will effect the play time, they want you to replay the whole game
This is what I love about sekiro and monster hunter I wish they would do this more often in these type of games
Absolutely something happened to me is when i was training for som bosses to beat them no hit i kiled them by mistake and had to finish and replay the game to have my no hit 😢☠️
Wtf is this comment lmao. @@Mr7usain
Fr
For me the delayed attacks make 100% sense when it's puppets I'm fighting, with the humans, they were just being dicks
Yeah, they should have made the enemies have way different fighting styles depending on what they were. Puppets: very to the point and logical, sometimes delayed to get the springs rolling for a bigger hit. Humans: Have feints and blocks, but mostly a fluid fighting style, and for Carcasses: Pure aggression, more like an animal going all out.
I can't believe they made potential final boss a potato
It happens
the only thing that felt over nerfed, but it's not the end of the world
I'm just talking about how Simon looks like a big walking potato
Bro eldenrings final boss was a dino nugget 🤣
@@Dennis-55lol how have I not noticed that before.
Yeah the parry window is not as bad as I had thought... but the attacks that are delayed and then instant make it feel like a complete dice roll... feels bad
Facts, it feels less like I messed up and more like the game messed with me just to kill me. I had to come to terms with playing in ways I don't normally like just to get by, because playing skillfully is punished hard
Me personally, I didn’t have much problem with those attacks at all. I had one simple response to them. Just moving out of the way
@@scottiecurrie7927 if youre being punished "playing skillfully" then maybe youre not as skillful as you think lmao
@@Schmeatboy 🤡
@@SchmeatboyI can 100% agree with the fact that skillful play gets you fucked hard. I’ve had instances of attacks I know the timing of still getting through at times. The parry window is way too narrow for a game where attacks come out so fast after being held
One thing that is weird to me is that the red attacks don't always 'feel' like a big scary attack, like a big event in the fight. Sometimes they have just taken a basic attack and made it into a fury attack, and this is compounded by the fact that it just seems dropped into movesets- enemies can randomly chain them. They should've been given more of a special status, where you really saw it coming in terms of animation, not just colour...
Fury attacks should've just been grabs.
They add nothing but frustration to the combat because like you said even common enemies have them and can chain into them.
@@nullandvoid7524noob
That's what upset me when i was fighting bosses like Victor. It feels like there are no rules to this game for what a red attack should be, besides that it's supposed to trick the player and get them hit lol.
My problem with the bosses is that the delayed attacks are so comically animated that it doesn't even feel like I'm fighting an actual being trying to kill me, rather than fighting a drunken wizard that falls asleep during half of their attacks.
Bosses like Sword Saint Isshin and Owl Father show that you can have incredibly difficult and engaging bosses without resorting to obnoxiously delayed attacks that rely on pure memorization.
Yeah Elden Ring has the same issue with all these delayed attacks which is an easy way to make the game more difficult but it can be very annoying and frustrating especially at first. What’s a little bit immersion breaking for me is when the attacks are so damn delayed that you can literally just run out of the way and don’t even bother deflecting it. Like Laxasia’s delayed slam in phase 1 takes so damn long to come out you could leave and make a coffee then come back and she’d still be holding the attack. You don’t even need to deflect it you can just run away or strafe it which kinda defeats the purpose. But her ultra fury slam in phase 2 can feel almost impossible to deflect the way it comes out instantaneously which can be very frustrating to figure out
The annoying one is nameless puppet. Because that one you have to deflect unless you equip a fucking 20 weight amulet before the new patch.
idk if you're counting the 2nd owl fight, because I know that fight has multiple very delayed moves. The main one that comes to mind is his overhead slash, but some of his combos in 2nd phase are super delayed with him teleporting around. The issue with lies of P is the camera, not the animations. I think if they gave the game a more sekiro-esque camera instead of a bloodborne/souls camera the bosses would be way easier to read.
@@knivy6160Owl’s attack are justified with decent animation amd forgiving frames for deflecring which both lacks in LoP
@@rohansensei5708I could read the delays for the most part in Elden Ring, but with this game is feels awkward for most bosses, the only ones I really liked the delays on werr Victor and the Archduke since they felt more like Elden Ring bosses
I enjoyed all the bosses except for the black rabbit brotherhood. hard ≠ bad
Same
Honestly it was such a breath of fresh air with how the puppets moved and how robotic they felt to fight without feeling boring
I'm apparently in the niche minority but I really enjoyed BOTH black rabbit brotherhood fights. It reminded me of ornstein and smough how each character was different, with their own move set and attack patterns and speeds, reaches. I thought it was really well done, like if you mixed 4 kings with ornstein and smough, which is high praise if that's what it reminds me of.
I agree, this is one of the best ways to do a gank fight. The Koreans really took their notes on how the souls formula works before developing this game and added their own twist. This is a worthy soulslike and for me at least it's up there with with the soulsborne in terms of quality. The amount of detail in both lore and mechanics (level design is nothing mind blowing in terms of shortcuts so not too many ''wtf'' moments) is astounding. I loved all the boss fights, they never felt unfair but were a good challenge.
@constantinesoldatos yeah I thought all the fights were good, some top tier and easily on par with from softs best. The main boss I liked the least was probably manus just because of his really awkward design. That and his attacks were kinda wonky and unnatural as well, but it was by no means a bad fight, the second phase is better than the first I'd say. Most people seemed to not like the black rabbit brotherhood and I really don't see why, not every fight is an elegant duel, some fights are street brawls and that's what fighting the brotherhood feels like.
@@Anubiszz512zz quote: ''every fight is an elegant duel, some fights are street brawls and that's what fighting the brotherhood feels like.''
Yup you pretty much nailed it
black rabbit brotherhood is how you design a gank boss fight, each of them waits patiently while only one attacks at any given time. not like the lazy excuse of a boss fight godskin duo where the devs just chuck two individual bosses you previously encounter(who aside from their similar attires, shares no synergistic attacks) into a single arena and expect you to deal with it
The fact that Elden Ring that had like 50 gank bosses and not 1 of them can match the quality of BRB is astounding. I genuinely don't understand the hate for this gank when Elden Ring AND even my baby Sekiro's gank encounters are much more frustrating. Yeah, DS1 and DS3 probably have better ganks, but that doesn't diminish just how well designed BRB is and how, regardless of what people think of LoP, it is easily one of the better gank fights in all of souls. Again, probably not better than O and S, Twin Princes, Demon Princes, Ashes of Cinder or Friede and Ariandell, but for a first game, coming this close is genuinely worthy of high praise.
The thing about laxaxia is that the second phase feels so cool to watch but it's a nightmare to play for the more casual part of the community, her attacks are just full of high dashes that make it look like boogie woogie from jujutsu kaisen and her jumps that take so long to fall and then when she does attacks it's ultra fast
My one gripe about the boss is that in second phase she jumps away a lot and since enemies heal after a bit it was a little frustrating to keep up with her. I was also using the poison great sword blade that gives you acid damage when you use its fable attack and its hard to use fable cuz of electric.
But in reality I want to fight her again so I can’t wait to see what happens in my NG+ run
I hate her lunge attack. And what makes it more bullshit is that u can actually see her charge up attack if u don't deflect the lightning balls back. If u deflect them, they hide her charging up her lunge which is just adding bullshit just for the sake of difficulty.
This might be contrarian, but I think perfect guard frames are as tight as they need to be. Guarding, dodging, and surprisingly running away are all effective defensive options. You can juat book it any time a boss goes red and miss (usually). Perfect guarding is just one tool in your toolbox. I never got consistent with it (I'd choose one or two combos to perfect guard and avoid the rest) but beat the game thanks to all the other mechanics.
Exactly. The game is all about thinking critically on each attack and taking your current situation in before deciding on what defensive strategy you will use to avoid damage. I really like that the new update made you recover health after a block easier because it makes blocking a better defensive option, which is nice because it did feel worse than dodging most of the time.
King of Puppets feels like it was designed to be the final boss and I wish it was.
Can’t think of a boss I genuinely didn’t love fighting ESPECIALLY closer to the end.
I think delayed attacks make you keep your brain on and I enjoyed them.
Really enjoyed this game as a whole, I’m surprised to see that’s not as unanimous as I thought.
I think it's because people are trying to play it like a FS game when it's not. These boss ranking videos from when the game first came out are all like where the boss that are the most FS like are at the top and they say a majority of them are bad because that's how they played the game and were unwilling to approach it differently. Billy S' video on the game lightly touched on this mentality a lot of people had/have and I agree with what he had to say.
@@desestscourge6240But it IS a FS game or as close to it as possible. Every fight mechanic in tbis game has already existed beforehand in the souls series. The problem people are having aren't the parries, low dodge i frames or "trying to play it as a FS game", the problem they have is that attacks in this game require memorization. Everything is delayed, enemies stop their swings in mid air which realistically would topple them over, 8+ hit combos.. These are the ACTUAL complaints people have which you would know if you listened to them and not only repeated what a youtuber told you
@@tomekk.1889 idk, I didn't memorize a lot of the fury attacks. People act like you HAVE to perfect guard but you can also avoid most of them entirely as they have some of the worst tracking out of most bosses entire moveset. Archbishop you can just run under, and Victor you can just get out of the way for. I haven't beat the game yet but I run under 30% and I just get the fuck outta there instead of taking a horrible risk/reward option that people think they are forced to take. People refuse to adapt and then get pissed at the game bc they can't play it on their terms
@@fedweezy4976 Yeah, um... phase 1 Swamp Monster and phase 2 Laxasia don't really give you a chance to avoid their Fury attacks.
@@zomorion9183 it's been a minute so I might have a fuzzy memory but for the swamp monster: his charge can be avoided by just running in circles I believe (could be wrong but it's also the easiest fury attack to block in the whole damn game) and his slam can be avoided by strafing around to his back. Laxasia you're probably unable to avoid a lot of the attacks, but for one of her fury attacks you can dodge it by getting behind her right shoulder. If there's any I missed lmk bc it's been a while since I played, but yeah I did my first playthrough as a mostly dodge based run and I didn't have an issue with fury attacks. Perfect guarding does give you better openings on a lot of em, like the swamp monster charge
What makes the decay damage on the corrupted circus dude even more annoying is that you can't teleport to a merchant to buy more status effect cures If you didn't have any going into the fight or run out. The only thing that stopped it from being miserable was someone in my chat pointing out that I could use the instant repair kits I'd never touched to keep from having to spend a ton of time repairing, As the damage wasn't as much of an issue because it wasn't a very hard fight if it weren't for the fact that I constantly had to be juggling my weapon durability.
I hate how whenever a valid issue arises in a soulsborne game people immediately say it’s a skill issue. Like no, not everyone is a gaming prodigy and you shouldn’t expect people to just “git gud” or not be able to enjoy the game whatsoever.
I just saw the same guy saying this on two comments here. Just very depres####
and sometimes it isn't even an issue of skill. it's just terrible game design. Soulsborne fans will always protect the original 1.0 version of a game so religiously that it's comically absurd. it's like trying to reprimand an artist for filling in a blank spot on a painting.
Except it usually is a skill issue and they usually aren't 'valid issues.' Like 90% of the boss complaints in Elden Ring.
@@anonymousperson8903 dunno how you got that impression. a lot of the bosses in Elden Ring were just using cheap tactics and even had completely broken attacks. such as Redhan's sword having a hitbox so big that it hits you twice in the same attack. you can cope and chalk it up to a skill issue all you want, but all it does is make you look like an insecure little bitch.
@@anonymousperson8903you're the problem, stop talking
I really enjoyed this game the most upsetting feature though is near every boss having two health bars for no reason, I think victor was one of the better bosses having 2 phases but on a single health bar
What's the difference?
@@tevenpowell8023 well If you read it again a bit slower you’ll find out what the difference is
@@davedavid1052 Jeez, why the condescension, dude?
I meant why do you prefer one over the other, since it's such a Slight difference
@@tevenpowell8023 my apologies I thought you were being rude in your first comment I do apologise and I find it’s lazy to add two health bars to every boss in the game just for the sake of difficulty. It makes the fights longer and more exhausting especially if you are struggling with a particular boss for example I think victor is an amazing boss with 2 phases and one health bar and a bad example for the use of two health bars is Archbishop his second phase adds nothing to the fight, it feels they put an extra phase in just for the sake of it, however a boss with two health bars which I think is a good use of the mechanic is Romeo which makes sense since phase 1 is a giant robot and phase 2 is Romeo
@@davedavid1052agree they should have done it just like godrick with the 2 phases
Laxasia was so much fun for me , it was hard but worth it and not frustrating at all
Damn, true. Every try for me was like going on a date.
P.S. every death on the second phase was followed with the search of GYATTT
I guess I'm one of the few who found some of her attacks kinda bs.
King of Puppets commits a cardinal sin of multiphase boss fights, where phase 1 does *nothing* to prepare you for phase 2. It's my biggest gripe, since it makes it feel like you have to learn two completely different boss fights at once...unlike the SUPERIOR Champion Victor fight.
Every boss with 2 health bars (except Andreus) has a completely different moveset in phase 2. They might not have a complete design change like Romeo, but their moveset is heavily changed.
@@Arfadoz Well the archbishop doesen't change his whole moveset if you decide to focus on his back , where is very similar to the first phase , Even simon gains extra moves , but he keeps basic attacks from the previous phase
I think the problem with king of puppets (maybe this changes after the patch) is how is exausting the phase 1, because most of his attacks if parried keep spush you back, forcing you to follow him in the whole arena for set a single attack before parry another attack and being push back again , and you can't risk to waste resources on him because you need them for the most harder phase 2
@@IllusionPanther Well, good thing you can chose which attacks are better to parry or dodge, it's kinda like the main thing of the game.
The real cardinal sin is two of them having insane amount of HP even after the nerf. When you design bosses with completely different movesets you have to compensate with giving them low HP like Maliketh.
cry
I've been saying that the the deflect is hard not because the frames are too little, but because the stupid delayed attacks aren't built for this type of game. Couple that with the snappy "animations", those attacks are often unseeable, so you have to play a guessing game instead of reacting. Glad to see someone with similar opinion.
You're not supposed to parry every attack on your first try. First comes dodging and blocking, and then comes the parry once you know the moveset. The delayed attacks forces you to actually learn the moveset of the boss, instead of relaying on your reflexes and shutting down your brain like with Dark Souls bosses.
@@Arfadoz how the hell do you dodge or block fury attacks, which are the most delayed in the game? If you don’t perfect guard then your only option is to run the hell away, which doesn’t work in a lot of cases and will not help you learn the timing.
@@sdotwallace The only boss whose attacks look similar is Simon Manus phase 1, every other boss has clear tells.
@@MaidenlessScrub The bosses glow red when doing a fury attack, so you remember that specific attack way better than the other normal attacks.
@@sdotwallace I skipped the final boss on my first playthrough. I beat him with the frozen feast within like 5 attempts on my next, not ng+ playthrough. The fact that you've already gotten to ng+5 tells me you brute forced yourself through the game without actually learning the game.
I still hate Green monster, Fighting it for the first time reminded me of those Corrupted Tree Spirit bosses in Elden ring. The moveset just feels like its a thrashing and flailing mess of hitboxes and I can hardly see what is happening
I love king of puppets as well
Possible Stockholm syndrome, but i genuinely wasn’t good at fighting romeo, but I think that I like the first phase more, by a lot
The music on this phase just kicks me. I love it, its just satisfying to beat his first phase.
I really enjoy all the humanoid enemy boss fights, yeah the stagger from the quick blows can be annoying but that’s what makes learning their move sets and parrying them all so fun. Parrying a quick flurry of attacks feels so satisfying and only this game has matched that kind of satisfying parry mechanic ever since sekiro.
Also the red attacks are delayed but they’re not randomly delayed, you can definitely learn the timing in like 3 tries or just sprint away.
So, about those boss attacks...
Post patch, the Laxasia amulet you dunked on in the amulet video is now a totally viable approach to playing through every boss fight. Vitality+Capacity with a bit of Vigor (and/or the +stamina amulet, and the stamina recovery one is probably the best one in the game anyway) grug facetank supremacy. Guard recovery scales hard and doesn't fall off as fast as health does. So you don't need to guess the parry timing when you can just hard block entire combos like Romeo's Firefowl Dance nonsense, then hit him twice with a medium weight weapon and heal back. Or hell, even greatswords may be viable now due to cap buff. Any attack you know the timing of and can confidently perfect guard is a free buildup for poise break if you have that upgrade, or a free boost of rally health.
Edit: Holy Sword is probably the single best weapon in the game for this build. Damage of a Greatsword, speed of a Longsword, guard reduction top 3 in the whole game. It does nothing poorly and is probably the best for a defensive rally build with the right P-Organ.
the corrupted parade master does have its place, introducing you to the new tone and pace of the game where you cant summon and where the bosses get harder by showing you a boss thats mostly one youve fought before
Fighting nameless puppet with the two dragon sword parries was the most fun i had learning a boss in a soulslike for a while
For me Archbishop and Simon would be much lower on the list because I felt like I'm fighting a potato that doesn't fit the screen, I can't see their arms behind their body and half of their attacks are delayed. Archbishop even worse because if you go behind him in a second phase you basically repeat the same fight you did in a first phase. Easy D tier boss.
Just beat the game and it was such an amazing game all the way through. My favorite boss is nameless puppet.
My only gripe is what Youwy touched on is it feels sometimes I get two completely different fights on the same boss. Laxassia or whatever was steamrolling me in phase 2 just sprinting around shooting lightning and the time I finally beat her with 5 flasks remaining she never did that move once.
Same with Puppet King. I beat him in 3 tries and never saw him light his scythe on fire.
I highly disagree, fighting the humaoids are the most fun, blocking a long string of melee attacks or weaving past a rush is the best feeling, some of big enemies just stiffly swing at you making it harder to doge or parry since u cant see shit cause of camera, makes for a less intense and constant fight (still amazing though this game is perfect lol)
One thing I'll say is that every fury attack has a clear sign of when you should parry, *except* for one, maybe two attacks. Laxasia's dive attack really does feel punishing as there really isn't a consistent way of countering it unless you're counting in your head when the attack happens. Another is maybe Simon's, as he stays in the air unrealistically long and then comes down like a canonball. The move is simple to dodge, at the very least.
I would personally replace Simon with Swamp Monster phase 1. It's overheads are comically delayed, and have even more comical tracking as a fury attack.
I feel like I’m the only one who had no problems reacting to or parrying Simon’s or Laxasia’s dive attacks. For me Romeo and Scrapped Watchman were much harder.
Nameless Puppet wins the award for the only boss in a soulsborne game I haven’t beaten. It’s so overly frustrating because every single attack is either an unreactable instant slice or a hyper delayed attack with an extremely nebulous identify on where the actual parry goes off. I get he’s the final boss, but he does triple the damage of Simon, and all of his attacks feel extremely unfair
It’s probably one of the most natural feeling bosses to parry imo. Definitely very challenging but completely fair. Even the delayed fury attacks are completely readable so long as you don’t panic. He’s just relentless and demands constant focus. Obviously just my experience but he’s easily the best boss in the game for me and I died 28 times.
I managed to beat him on my 1st try today
@@Mavuika_Gyaru ._. I beat it last week finally, all it cost was my ability to feel anything but rage
@@milktenders6219 there's a special grindstone that automatically perfect guards for you for a few seconds. That really helped
Bro that's the thing that's PISSING me off with this game. Some attacks have almost zero fucking telegraphs and just hits you instantaneously. You just got to memorize the attack which is bullshit.
It took a while with this game to put my finger on why it wasn't clicking for me when every Fromsoft game (and most C-tier souls clones!) have been among my favorites ever. But risk=/=reward sums it up nicely. I never feel like my skilled play is rewarded in this game. I can perfect deflect an entire rush of delayed strikes and the boss is still able to follow up with another flurry of blows before I can have a chance to follow it up. It made it so, for me, dodging behind enemies was almost always the better approach. And that play style is better left in the Dark Souls 2 days.
This game was beautiful, and had moments of brilliance. I may even check out Neowiz's new releases down the line, because I think there was something here. But the combat never stopped feeling like a miss to me, and i'm certainly never coming back to this game now that I've beaten it once.
I read it somewhere else, but "Lies of P's enemies are all playing Sekiro while you're playing Dark Souls 2."
counterargument to the rant: there's a less risky alternative to avoiding fury attacks and that's just to get out of the way, i know it's not possible for all of them but lies of p lets you sprint very quickly and doesn't have as much startup delay as other games in the genreso you'd be surprised how often you can just sprint or even dodge out of the way of a fury attack's hitbox, and oftentimes even get a punish. spacing is such a major aspect in these types of games that i feel like just gets ignored all the time. for my first playthrough i didn't really get great at parrying until around laxasia because she kind of forced me to get good at it, and ofc i wasnt using summons either. i just avoided most boss fury attacks and only parried when it was one i knew i could do consistently. there's also the fact that some fury attacks give you more of a punish if you dodge them compared to if you parry them, for example the nameless puppet's one where he charges up and blinks his eyes before doing a fucking yone q at you, if you just run to the side you will dodge it and are able to turn around and get a relatively consistent punish off it that will almost always result in him jumping behind you and doing another swing that can be punishable with proper dodge timing. on the contrary, the green monster of the swamp, for example, will often start the fight with a charge that's relatively easy to consistently parry, and the boss is put into huge recovery if you do parry it properly, as compared to if you just let it end it's a little awkward to punish. basically, just because you can parry all fury attacks doesn't mean you're supposed to. that's why i think it's such a great mechanic. also, even if you hate it, they give you the option to bypass it with that one boss amulet.
I think their argument was that perfect blocking the flurry should be more rewarding than it is, not that perfect blocking is the only answer. I would broadly say that the game suffers a bit from putting such a heavy emphasis on parrying through the tutorial and skills, even though dodging is still extremely effective. The fist two bosses, for example, teach you to parry as your main form of defense, but trying to rely on this for later bosses is possible, but not at all the most effective strategy for a first play through.
@@TheHeadincharge i think that is mostly due to the fact that this game's intended audience are people who are already into the soulsborne series and as such are familiar with the concept of dodging. now that may be a mistake on their part, but it doesn't make the parry system bad
The frames I am fine with. I can perfect guard Eldest Rabbits spin to win attack all hits. I can perfect guard 90% of the nameless puppets 1st phase. What I have an issue with is the bloodborne spastic attacks wtihout the bloodborne way of dodging them. Also the aforementioned delayed attacks or even delayed into instant smash attacks. Also why do bosses and enemies for that matter have heatlh regen? Nothing worse than doing 6k damage in a combo and then have to guard / dodge an 8 hit combo only to see half that damage was now restored. Totally unnecessary. That is my issues and that is what makes a lot of these bosses just a chore. Everything else about the game is top though so credit where credit is due.
Most of those delayed attacks are downwards strikes so a dodge to the left or right is much easier than perfect guarding. People think perfect guarding is the only option for some reason.
Simon and Nameless puppets were the easiest fights for me. 4 and 2 tries respectively which made the ending so wack for me lol. Laxasia was the toughest for me and she was my favorite boss fight. I had a motivity build with Holy Sword of the Ark throughout the game and that made the last fights trivial
They wanted sekiro style deflection with a darksouls character. Terrible mix. One of the main reasons is that Sekiro had no stamina bar. He could deflection and attack constantly until his stagger bar was broken, just like the bosses, which made the fights feel fair.
What about wo-long? I’ve only played the demo but it felt really good to deflect and seemed like it could work with the traditional dark souls character style
@@splinterskulll
Wo-Long is alright. The story is shit, and the game is way easier than most Souls-likes, including its close cousin Nioh. But it’s not bad if you’re bored and want more Sekiro-style deflecting and movement.
I found myself putting a lot of points into stamina which isn’t something I normally do in souls games. Didn’t really mind tho
I agree. The amount of blocking and dodging required to deal with some of these bullshit flurrys leave you with no stamina to counter attack. They should have either removed stamina management altogether OR made it so that blocking doesnt take stamina since you take chip damage anyway and increase the stamina regen rate
I agree that was the biggest thing was how many bosses and enemies had delayed attacks where they wait 15 years then attack faster than you can react. Also boss arenas were not mad well for most the bosses especially swamp monster
Laxasia and nameless puppet were the most fun for me. I ended up beating King of Puppets on first try because I got lucky, but I kinda wish I hadn't just so I could have spent more time learning and enjoying the fight. Arch bishop, swamp moster 2nd phase, and the second black rabbit brotherhood were absolute ass though, and those are the fights that make me not want to replay the game in NG+.
The square root of negative fun would be imaginary fun
Question, how do you get so many perfect guards? I noticed this a lot when you talked about the nameless puppet (10:58). You were able to perfect guard multiple attacks in a row (a combo). When i did that, I guarded the first but then my character kept guarding on it's own (after I released the button) so I couldn't perfect guard again in that combo. and at 12:03, you blocked that fury attack way too early but it counted as a perfect guard. I don't get it. I saw that you had the grinder for it but it didn't seem to be active.
i would change the order but agree completely with ur top 5
perfect guarding actually holds you in place for a second, so using the later part of your s in a dodge can actually get an attack off, when if you guarded you wouldnt have been able to. dodge is not only viable, its good.
master that and midrange and throw strats and nothing in the game should give you much trouble (including the health regeneration)
This. For attacks with big knockback it's better to dodge into them. For attacks midcombo a perfect block is usually better if you are already attacking. While yes perfect blocks build up poise damage and weapon break, weapon break is very slow on actual bosses and poise damage is already being built up by extra attacks. This may be different in unupgraded weapon fights, but for standard levelling it's perfectly viable to no hit this way.
I am in chapter 10 and every boss fight so far has been tedious and unfun. The parry window is too tight to be fun like Sekiro, the dodge and input lag makes the game less fun than Bloodborne. The only good thing it has going for it is exploration, but even that is ruined by elites with too much HP. I can't tell you how many enemies I skip fighting because they have too much HP. Not doing it, so of course the game has to rely on forcing you to fight these enemies to proceed in later chapters. I am kind of giving up on the game now because I know the bosses still to come and NOT one of them looks fun to fight in the slightest. Fuck this game.
I actually had the opposite experience with Nameless Puppet. Even on my first attempts, when I got to the second phase I nearly killed it every time. But the first phase would either completely kick my ass or take so many of my cells I had no shot at the second phase
This game’s so near to being a perfect souls-like yet all the small flaws combining makes it a rather frustrating experience with few highs and many many lows
I love delayed attacks so much, I love having to predict nonsense
It is almost perfect, there aren't many lows especially after patch 1.2 , the only thing I hate is how a few of the skills like link dodge and fall dodges are put behind the skill tree.
It's got many flaws, you're right
Definitely has alot of flaws but they still did dam good with their first souls like. The fact they made a top 3 souls-like on their first go is kind of crazy when you think about it. I can't wait to see what they have in the future
@@hatefulgaming1800
So you must LOVE Elden Ring.
I actually really liked the black rabbit brotherhood in both fights because using the boss spear weapon, although the best fight is easily laxasia
Their second fight would probably be my favorite if the non-aggro ones didn't have ranged attacks.
troll@@tevenpowell8023
Romeo is definetly the best boss not because of how he fights but for lore reasons... my only complaint is the placement of his fight and me personally wanting to side with the puppets, even b4 knowing how corrupt gepetto was. In a new game plus when you can finally understand the puppet bosses, it was such a missed opportunity to be able to side with Romeo, your best friend, and have a different branch on the story
Gotta save some things for DLC, am I right? If it means we get more quality soulslikes down the road, I don't mind, but I definitely see where you're coming from.
I think romeo should've come back later in the game instead of the parade master
I really wanna see a miniboss list because aside from like a few bosses there really wasn’t that stood out for me. Minibosses have easily taken the cake as either the best most fun fights or the worlds most egregious painful fights.
Also I love how all the worst bosses are like around the halfway point of the game. Both black rabbit brotherhoods , corrupted parade master 🤮 , Swamp Thing , etc
In my opinion BRB 2nd fight wasn’t too bad once you realize that they are easily staggerable with heavy weapons. As for the criticism of the final boss 2nd phase feeing completely different thematically it is because Gepetto wanted to subdue us to use our heart he wasn’t try to kill us, once the strings were severed and Gepetto was no longer controlling the puppet it wanted to destroy our heart. It hated us because that’s all it could feel (item description from amulet) so it makes a lot of sense why it feels so different.
Regarding the Brotherhood fight, only the sister is the fucking mosquito, she evades the most and is the fastest.
Spear guy is usually on top of you so you don’t have to chase his ass around and the Saber one isn’t has evasive but the damn sister is just annoying, I make it my priority to kill her first cause of that.
I feel like a ton of people ignore how many ways we have available to deal with Fury Attacks. Fable Arts come in *very* handy.
And this video in particular seems to just want to get through bosses as fast as possible in the most basic way possible. Which is fine I guess, but I actually love how long bosses can take because it actually feels like I'm up against a wall. I also enjoy when a phase transition surprises me with a different kind of fight.
Exactly, everyone thinks every fury attack MUST be perfect guarded instead of just avoided entirely, which often nets you a slightly worse opening but with much less risk. Certain fury attacks (archbishop phase two where he's walking around) seem designed to be completely avoided. But people just think any soulslike is a practice in perseverance over adaptation so they never think critically about the attacks being thrown at them.
All of these bosses are F-tier. There is only one triple S-Tier boss in the game, and it is the Door Guardian.
Youwy pls make more rant videos, I love those ❤😂
There really should have been some more telegraphing in certain boss movesets especially for fury attacks. Losing to a fight you could have otherwise beaten first try just because you guessed wrong feels real bad. This is a very case by case basis though, it's not a persistent issue in the game.
One huge problem I have is the reoccurring theme of enemies which resemble the basic fodder closely, but have 4x the health, damage, and infinite hyper armor for seemingly no reason. A great example is the crawling puppets that ambush you in the infected train station where the hidden workshop is. Upon seeing them there's no reason to assume they won't resemble the rest of the fodder enemies that you can 2 shot, so you jump in, do like a 6th of their health, then get swarmed by a bunch of them who all have hyper armor. Again this wouldn't be an issue if there was some kind of common signifier through the game that "this jobber is stronger than the typical one", but you just have to figure it out the hard way.
Fallen Archbishop should've been lowered just because of the boss dialogue
i personally think the boss dialogue is really cool
Nah move it UP because of that
Good Rant :))))
I feel you my only problem is the moves bc honestly the health for the bosses are surprisingly low but the challenge is just getting hits
Really surprised with the scathing thoughts on the Black Rabbits 2. Thought they were more than manageable and the added sound queues of them throwing projectiles was more than welcome
Plus swamp monster > Victor. That fight's fun as fuck
I think more parrying frames would completly fix the game, doing ng+ and dying to boss because you forgot 1 moves timing doesnt feel good
Just noticed how only the first few bosses have a phase transition without health bar reset and dumb cutscene that deprives you of few precious seconds to heal/buff/sharpen weapon ...
Hated the swamp monster the most, idk why took me the longest to beat and even tried to cheese it
finally someone talking about how staggered some of the attacks are in this game. some bosses in general are just annoying but add in so many delayed moves and its just downright insulting to the player.
Before watching we only have 2 S tiers. Nameless orphan of kos and laxatives the incomplete
Most delayed attacks were easy to parry tho. Just watch their arm.
Not sure if you just overly dramatic for the video's sake but it just sounds like you hated half this game lmao.
I liked the second BRB fight more because of the clutter in the arena.
Ive heard a lot of people complain about scrapped watchmen, i suspect its because they werent parrying at that point
Me:Oh it’s out tommorow…WAIT THIS WAS YESTERDAY ITS OUT!? Already!?
Damn that was fast
I honestly enjoy dodging, not having as many Iframes changes the way you play and it was fun. However parry/blocking doesn’t feel good at all. I’m pretty bad at it so I understand is mostly a skill issue but I really hate how it works and feels. Breaking weapons with a perfect block almost makes up for it tho 😂
Dodge is cool, takes a bit of stamina but is better than just block an atack. However, trying to dodge combo atacks like "Romeo's fire rush atack" fells like im dodging Tangiro's hinokami sh## atack
Edit: But is very hard to dodge combo atacks, every single hit sometimes comes really fast
I got bum rushed on the second rabbit fight. I was scared that the big would just pop put of the coffin to spite me while they do it.
You do have hyper armor… and you can roll through the fury attacks after swamp monster
Not me forgetting about the king of puppets and thinking he had door guardian at #1 😂
I agree the payoff for parrying the rage attacks should be higher. It’s high risk, so it should have high reward
The brotherhood bitches are the only boss fights I refuse to do without a specter.
I’m stuck with the nameless puppet. Fought him many times. I’m to the point now I’m going to farm here and there until I can level up my capacity crazy high then I’ll go back to him. All me damned if I’m giving up just heart
In my first playthrough I didn't use Specters at all bosses, but on NG+ I used on both fights against Black Rabbit Brotherhood, for me fights against bunch enemies are boring and not fun, you just spam attacks trying to kill one fast, predict a few dodges and that's it. Also I totally agreed with your list: Nameless Puppet, Laxasia and King of Puppets were the best boss fights in Lies of P.
This blue thing, on entry. Is not for that free opens?. Spectre?
The Black Rabbit Brotherhood gave me DS2 flashbacks of the gank squad and I fucking hated it....
What weapon let's you deflect projectiles back? I noticed it in the lax fight.
every deflect does this against lax
@Youwy ahh thank you. I dodge too much lol
What delayed attacks are everyone talking about ? Lmao like the charged heavies that the enemies do? It’s the same timing every time. I’m confused
I agree with basically all of this list except for King of Puppets which I think is C tier personally. If the bosses were split up, I’d probably put Romeo in S and the King in B, but I really dislike fights that are essentially two different bosses back to back rather than the second phase being an extension of the first. It just made the play through frustrating for me to have to slog through the first boss just to try to learn a very difficult and fast moveset in a completely different style. I really wish they would’ve somehow split up these fights because I think Romeo by himself would have been a lot more enjoyable.
Instantly get staggered would be too much, but more destruction damage I agree would be good
I saw a video that helped
use acid and take out the black rabbit with a puppet string first then the fight get a lot easier
then the spear and the little brother can be killed with sharp pole
King of Puppets being number 1 would be fine if it wasn’t for the fact phase 2 just constantly denies healing. There’s a bit of it in the Laxasia fight as well but it’s not as bad as the King of Puppets phase 2.
I think what annoys me more than the delayed attacks are massive bosses in small arenas all having some kind of stampede attack. It's like they purposely made these bosses and moves to fuck with the camera and make it impossible to see what you're doing. I can't tell you how many times I died fighting the puppet monster because his hand nicked me during his charge attack and during the 40 second stumble recover animation P has I get pushed into a corner (where the camera is literally looking inside of the bosses model) and just mowed down from 5-6 hit combos where I can't see anything. When this game is good it's a 10/10 masterpiece, but man when this game sucks it is some of the cheapest poorly designed BS you will ever see.
Also,the 2nd BRabbit,the youngest black rabbit MOANS to much when attacked😂
I only played the game recently and kinda sad that I could finish all bosses in about 3 tries, I feel like something was robbed from me with the nerfs
-Manus 2nd phase is really annoying. It's not fun when you have to ran around most of the time in a boss fight specially in this game.
-Lax and Romeo are objectively the best boss fights.
-But the boss fight I had the most fun is probably the Black Rabbit gankfest 1. Gankfest 2 was cool too but part 1 was more cinematic and realistic. You feel more of a badass by dunking on those fools.
You hit the nail on the head with Simon Manus, I didn't have issue with HP or damage cause I rolled out with the puppet axe blade with the police baton and had 40 points of vigor with the HP amulet and that one amulet that gives you HP, Stamina and legion.
If they made his magic spam alot less periodic, it would actually be a decent fight but they decided to amp up the "final boss" part on the final boss and make it so it's more of a touhou fight then a BB/Sekiro fight.
All I did for beating Simon Manus for the first time was to run away for the second phase (keep in mind I couldn't beat him for a good hr or so, took a break, came back, couldn't beat him for another hr then realized that running away completely negates 85-90% of his moveset)
That's not good boss design, you literally don't engage with close to almost all of the bosses mechanics in the second phase. I didn't even use specters once throughout the whole game, and beat it without the "nerfs". I was so miffed in the end about Simon to a point where I said fuck it and not do the nameless puppet fight cause my patience have been worn to nothing at that point.
I agree area denial is a cheap way of extending a fight and sometimes that's all second phase Simon did
Im glad you forgot about the door guardian
Me taking 1h to defeat laxasia first phase to Realise that i get whooped my ass in the first seconds of the second phase lmao
Perfect guard is the way to play. The more you treat it like bloodborne/sekrio where you have to play aggressive the Better off you’ll be
Laxasia takes the number 1 for me, 2nd would be NP, and 3rd would be Scrapped Watchman, 4th would be Romeo.
The king of puppets is not S tier (imo). First phase requires you to be near perfect so that you have enough pulse cells to experience the second phase because the move sets are not similar whatsoever. I think on a second playthrough though, the king is A+ tier.
delayed attacks are the least fun part of BB and ER so yeah i understand the critique
Commenting this on yet another video making the same uninformed complaint: We have no idea how many parry frames the game gives. All we know is how it supposedly "feels," which is completely subjective and personal and can depend on a wide variety of different factors from person to person. For me, except for a small handful of extremely delayed fury attacks, everything felt very intuitive and just needed a good amount of practice. Until the data is dumped and the animations have been analyzed, we don't even know *which frames* of the block animation count as the parry, much less how many there are, so to make assertions about frames is pointless. For all we know, it could be entirely reasonable. You'll have to wait and see.
Idk what you are playing but the black rabbit brotherhood they all attack me at the same time
Man I hate the guy who invented "delayed attack". That shit is so annoying to play against.
What I find funny/irritating is that you, a puppet, is easily staggered and has no hyper armor, meanwhile flesh and blood human enemies have all the hyper armor in the world to do their combo attacks with.