The Most Savage Man On Earth Rants: "Games Should Not Cost $60 Anymore" - Extra Credits
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ม.ค. 2018
- The Shills are coming, the corporate shills are coming!!
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Let's be honest here - if games did cost $90 it still wouldn't be enough, they would still sell DLC and season passes.
And loot boxes and micro transactions. And then expect you to pay for the limited collectors ultimate special edition remastered for the latest consoles that costs a triple A price but still isn't worth it because some how they still haven't made a stable, bug fixed, optimized port.
MrRedsh1rt yep
I've been riding that Steam backlog baby! Plus free and interesting games like Barotrauma will always be coming out.
Yea I would agree if there was a commission or government action that outlawed microtransactions including DLC, I wouldn't be mad if they raised the game prices from $60 to $80 or $90, because not only would it make people more apt to make better buying decisions and stop this soon to be crash the game industry will eventually succumb to but make games more competitive and less "fuck you pay me". and extra $30 wouldn't kill me for a full price release to not be screwed left and right would actually be nice. Though I advocate somewhere in the middle maybe raise games to 75 dollars and outlaw microtransactions for full price releases except DLC's that add over an average of 5 hours of gameplay, so cosmetics cant be considered DLC's as bethesda tries to pull.
Yong Yea did a vid once about the real cost of Destiny (1 not 2) with its chapters and other crap, you thought you were paying $60 for a game but it came closer to $200 and the lootboxes were on top of that. So, if EA decided a game without lootboxes had to cost a more representative price then don't expect $75...expect $180 or so.
Game budgets shouldnt be 75% marketing.
MyRkAcc sometimes it's 25% of marketing....
麻宮 アテナ2003 when ever I see a trailer for a game one of the first negative hyperbolic comments is that a game's graphics looks like it was made for the PlayStation 2. Nevermind the story and game play, graphics is all they care about.
SinPunisher it's a trailer, it's hard to tell how good a story or game play is without actually playing it. If a person is buying a game solely based on the trailer, then that person is an idiot....
MyRkAcc No one will play your game if no one knows about it
Bad Incorporated call of duty franchise needs to spend 50 mil on the game and 150 mil on marketing for every/most of their games because no one heard of it you say?
The big spenders are the big companies who have a following and a name to it. Some marketing needs to be done, but spending more then you spent making the game?
Thats why selling millions of copies is still considered a failiure to this companies...
Like in BF2s case where 7 million copies sold is was a dissapointment and resulted in them loosing over 100 million if i remember right (though mostly because they expected to have the microtransacrions beig 50%+ of their profits like it usually is the case with such companies).
Here's something fun: EA's total development cost in 2017 was less than it was in 2008. Yet they say they need microtransactions to make a profit.
EA are shit heads needed surely not.
can you give sources?
Guilherme Gonçalves Dias EA's public financial reports. Google exists.
thanks.
On average, development costs have gone DOWN by 33% across the board due to less money spent on shipping and packaging. Search for "Are games too expensive to make" for numbers and explanations and Tarmacks whole video.
Extra credits: GAMES matter.
Gamers? Not so much according to them.
They believe "Gamers are dead." :/
Did they actually take a bite from the "gaming "journalists" " burger?
@@cameronmckillop6448 yes. They took a larger bit then a land whales.
If the cost of making games and buying games inflating then why isn't my paycheck inflating?
No doubt the answer you'd get is "IT DEM EBIL RICH PEEPO STEALIN YO MUNY"
@@ImperialistJoe Who's stopping it from growing other than employers?
It is inflating every year that check you make is actually worth less money because you can buy less products with it
Inflation is a tax on bondholders and the commoners. That is why they don't try to keep up with inflation with the average employees wage
@@thicc_reap7569 Shortish answer. In the 70s a conscious decision was made to aim for 0% real inflation, (that is deliberate 0% inflation over and above worker pay rises and the cost of goods increase to offset the higher pay rates). That didn't happen, what we got instead was deflation on the cost of goods, it's why a big screen tube TV used to cost a few thousand dollars and now a big screen smart TV can be picked up for a few hundred. Meanwhile real estate inflated. The deflation in the cost of goods meant jobs were shipped overseas where labor is cheaper in order for the products to still be profitable and wages have been stagnant because people are simply not willing to pay enough for goods and services to allow a rise in wages that is greater than standard over time inflation. Ironically, it's somewhat true to say stagnant wages have been responsible for stagnant wages. There's never going to stop being a desire to hoard money at the top but greed alone doesn't explain it.
Real estate inflated because big money like banks have a great deal of their cash tied up in real estate so inflation on that is a guarantee against bad debt because the bank can always recover a bad loan by selling the property since its value has increased. Banks hate inflation on anything else which is why people like you and I should like it. Here's why: say you borrow 100k and make 25k/year. Over the next 5 years inflation continues at a rate of 20% per year. In 5 years everything has doubled in price but it's OK because now you're making 50k/year because if your boss hasn't kept up with pay rises, you've left for a better paying job by now. Everything more or less works out, right? Well what about that $100k you owe? It's still only 100k (minus whatever you've paid off) but now it's much easier to pay off because you make 50k/year or alternatively you have enough income to take on more debt. Inflation has essentially paid half of your debt load for you. Inflation is really good for you if you owe money, horrible if you're a lender. That's going to be the next financial crisis, the ever inflating real estate market combined with stagnant wages means housing is getting out of the affordable range for most people. That is not going to be sustainable for long. If you're in your 50s and planning to sell your home so you can retire in 10 years, who do you plan on selling to if no one can afford your house?
I used to like Extra Credits. Their early videos on The Escapist were more about exploring game mechanics and themes and how well they work for a given title or genre. Then they started to get preachy, quoting Leigh "Gamers are Dead" Alexander and condemning certain games as "problematic" if its themes didn't meld with their social and political views. I stopped watching them when GamerGate hit and they went into lockstep with the rest of the GameJournoPros, painting everyone who disagreed with them as misogynist filth. Now I see that they've added "shameless corporate apologist" to their reputation as well.
The thing that upsets me the most about the video is the false dichotomy they try to push at the end, pretending that games HAVE to be either over $60 USD or contain microtransactions/lootboxes in order to turn a profit. There have been plenty of games released over the past decade or so that have been critical and commercial successes that sold for $30 USD or less and didn't resort to bullshit anti-consumer practices. The Walking Dead, Shovel Knight, Cuphead, Portal, Minecraft (before Microsoft bought them out), Terraria, Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice, Rayman Origins/Legends, Sonic Mania, Stardew Valley, FTL...the list goes on and on.
Indeed, i agree with you Neverhoodian, their first games were amaizing.
But then they start to get apart from gamemechanicns, or go to mechanicns in cards game.
Also i start to not actally i start to see their true faces, when they talk about that they need DLC, or something like that because games have low replaybilty.
I there hate it, really hate it, also how much they support more and more multyplayer games.
Finaly extra historie they start to concentrate in nations that are nearly non existing
Their videos like this make more sense when you realize that some if not most of the Extra Credits crew work in game development.
Yeah they lost me after that 60 dollars bull crap. Need money because they're hurting due to internal costs? Get the shill out of here
The Walking Dead is not a good example but other than that good argument
starbound
“Your dollar is worth 25% more so everything should also cost an additional 25%, making it a 32.5% more!
Math!
The origin of "games cost more to make" comes from late 90s when the size of a dev team went up rapidly because of the shift from 2D to 3D graphics. Some companies, such as Namco, Techmo and Westwood merged with or were bought out by other companies either in response of preparation to it, while others like Square and Capcom went through a financial crisis and restructuring. Such struggles were symbolic of the 10 year period, around 1995-2005.
There were clear losers; many devs disappeared while others just about managed to adapt to the new environment. This leads us into the radical changes in and around 2005 to 2015, such as the emergence of mega publishers (e.g. devs turning into corporate entities like EA), the changes in a game's content (e.g. becoming hollow, less IPs) and shift in their business model (e.g. microtransactions, unreasonable DLCs).
So, for simplicity's sake, it's easier to think of it in 3 distinct eras: pre 1995, 1995-2005, 2005-2015. I certainly won't excuse what some publishers have been up to lately - it angers me as much as anyone - but sometimes I feel that this type of debate lacks a broader perspective since the changes in the landscape during the last 10 years can't really by deciphered in full without looking at the decade prior to it. Just trying to be informative, not argumentative.
Game development is not getting expensive! The tools used to code and make assets have advanced quite a lot since 2000. FFS, indie devs make quality games for less than a 50 grand. Back in the day, game development used to be an expensive and arduous affair. The cheaper cost of development and expansion of gaming audience has led to independent game developers because game development became more accessible. There is simply no excuse for AAA developers except for the fact that they are greedy. Also, these companies are blowing unnecessary money of generating empty hype. So remind "extra credits", again why should I feel bad for a multibillion $ global megacorp that doesn't give two shits about me?
YES! Someone gets it!! They use ENGINES which have templates. All they have to do is draw the image and they can easily animate it through the engine! Also, notice the background textures look pretty much the SAME through MOST games? People are gullible if they think games are too expensive to MAKE. It's all in the PROMOTION and ADVERTISING.
Vaibhav Shah this is more or less what i was going to comment so liked.
Yup but most are defending white knights with closed minds. They temp calm down when they open loot boxes lol
Please don't bring independent games into this argument. The number of good independent games produced or alpha'ed are completely swamped by the HUGE number of utterly shit independent games.
@brainplay. It's called Sturgeon's law and how is that any different from AAA games? I've enjoyed more indie/small developed games than I do in many of the big named ones. The last 'new' (and by that I mean original, not reboot, or re-release or HD upgrade) was Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and that was months ago.
Extra Credits is only useful if you want to find what the games industry tells itself so it can sleep at night.
Khristian4444
No it isn't.
It should be called Extra Condescension. It's like something Big Tobacco used to come out with years ago, you know how smoking was actually good for your health, were they would get their bought and paid for "experts" to rebut medical science, logic and sanity. The same stuff that Pharma corporations, chemical/industrial polluters, and the Monsanto's of the world do. It's the same strategy and corporate propaganda counter narrative.
Khristian4444
There are loads of channels that are better than them.
If you want to start, go to the GDC TH-cam channel and starting picking the topics that interest you. It's the unabridged and unfiltered version of the things they talk about.
Then pick your engine and start coding.
If you ask me this video was the beggining of the end, also i think they change the guys
Mark Brown's channel is way better than EC when it comes to game design IMO
remember Extra Credits are failed developers and want to think they did not fail it was just the market
Yes i personaly i stop watching them for game development and extra historie is no longer good
Krysnha i was enjoying extra history until i noticed the underlying themes of white guilt in all of their stuff....
Yes i wanted to say the same but i didnt know how to put it.
Well i dont know which you notice i for example notice, in the WW2 the merchant marine, they put a female but if you choose there were what4 females in the merchant marine, and they out like they were all the time.
Or like the two or tree last series are all aobout nationstaht were all africans or minor nations, meanwhile ignoring mayor parts of historie, like the napolenical wars, cesar etc.
Finaly i think what it kill me from extra credtis was something like well how they prasise card games, specialy blizzard card game heroe of the storm and anyone that knows is that as long you throw money to the game you win.
@@Krysnha please, speak proper English when making an argument.
Austin Donohue, english is notmi native language.
As for what i said, is that in many videos, they truly show political correctnes, even in the selections of topics for extra historie
"THINK OF THE POOR STARVING SHAREHOLDERS" a video by Extra Credit, corporate chill extravaganza
1 billion from loot boxes wtf!
EA's fifa makes 800 million a year from microtransactions... it's INSANE.
Its because the games are still stuck on thr 59.99$ pricepoint but we still think its worth that, so they keep conning and they keep conning despite movies costing 4x lower in ticket costs and even subscriptions are cheaper as well. I guess Microsoft wanted to do Game Pass just to make EVEN MORE Money from their customers.
people spend hundreds and thousands of $$$$. what you expect? $5 million profit? 1 person in Mass Effect 3 spent $15,000 in microtransactions
Charles Stiles
these people blindly believe anything they read/watch/listen on the internet
It'sAGundam but i want cat skin
$60 for you guys in the US, $100-125 for Australia. Standard edition too. The price has been increasing for us for a few years, kinda fuckin sucks man.
Still sucks all these years.
But Australia doesn't exist according to those in the US.
"self reflection is a scary thing when your a douche bag" -Gundam. this is one of my favorite lines of any video ever. thank you
waitwaitwait ....
"EA sais that turning off microtransactions will not affect earnings"?
So, what they are telling us is ....
They did it JUST TO PISS US OFF!?
WTF EA?!
Nerobyrne they did it to see how stupid star wars fans are lol.
they did it because you never undersell yourself in a free market.
I think a lot of people underestimate the value of goodwill with goods which are purely luxury.
you'd be surprised, actually. in fact, the price of games should have been a lot lower ever since digital copies started to gain prominence over physical copies. there were a lot of people expecting prices to be lowered because the cost of shipping games were that much cheaper. unfortunately, it never changed because the market was perfectly fine and willing to bear the difference. now we're at a point where it's never been easier to create games and the price of games are not only staying the same but actually going up with enough clever methods and once again, the market will bear the difference.
it's not even goodwill, either. it's just general ignorance from the consumer base. to be honest, i don't really blame them. being concerned about the prices of video games isn't exactly number one priority for most people.
dude what, I've never bought full games for one Euro before. Also, way more games are now available for under 10 euros. In fact, the expected price for a full game on Steam is between 20 and 30 Euros. This is much cheaper than what it was just 10 years ago. The only games that haven't really changed prices are the AAA games, and yeah, that's because people generally feel the high price is worth it. Which basically means that it is, companies aren't charity organizations. They will charge what they can get.
The real strength of platforms like Steam is the extremely reactive pricing model. Basically, a company can see exactly how many games are being sold, and can adjust the price very dynamically to fine-tune the price exactly to what the market is willing to pay.
This is a huge step up from the old method of just dumping an number of games on every store and hoping to god that your investment of printing, thermoforming and shipping paid off from the purchases.
idk about you, but Extra Credits has always come off as a pompous corporate shill. Must be wonderful to work with him /s
As far as what he has to say, nothing but bullshit. Let's not forget that a massive portion of a game's cost nowadays come from these publisher's exorbitant marketing spending, even on games that wouldn't even need it like ones being made by high profile developers or IPs that have a pedigree of quality. I love this hobby and I want the industry to be in a better spot. I want to go back to the days where I had to choose between dozens of quality titles and expansions actually expanded the game but that would require creativity and actual innovation.
I would only accept a price increase if the game had quality AND quantity. Would be nice to have a game that I would remember for more than a year like the games of old.
LeadFaun
Nobody cares how many useless squeaky bastards it is
They all sound like low-T men to me anyway :p
*"Extra Credits has always come off as a pompous corporate shill"*
That's because they are. They're a group of SJW douche bags that have made 2 shitty phone games that flopped hard. Look up Extra Credit's James Portnow. You'll find everything you need to know.
Arryndosk Raven
Doesn't Portnow let himself be credited for "working on Call of Duty" even though the one he actually worked on was Devil's Brigade, a third-person squad-based game that was axed during the Activision-Blizzard merger, and even then he only worked on the music?
CruelestChris he's also a vocal proponent for the notion of games "needing to grow up"
THERE'S A GUNDAM DOWN HERE!
whoever said games cost 60$? its been decades since u got the full game for 60$, nowadays, if u want the full game u probably have to pay 120$, sometimes more. The 60$ price(these days) gets you the base experience, if u want ALL of the content(that has been sequestered behind a paywall) u gotta fork over another 60$, at least!
Daniel Turunen thats true people don't mimd the pay me now pay me later form.
I've said the same thing. Everytime I buy a $60 game just wait 2 months, if they don't have day 1 dlc. Your $60 game will be obsolete in 6 months. You HAVE to buy the dlc. I'm not even talking about cosmetics.
Inflation doesn't mean shit. They're worth what people are willing to pay for them.
The companies recoup their cost through copies of digital software. Their aim is to sell to as many people as possible within a reasonable price range for themselves.
$60 is that price range, else they would have changed it without remorse. Their cost of making the game usually fits within that bounds.
Jesus you've been on fire these last two weeks. Keep raining the fire and fury down, Gundam!
This x's 2 !!
the particles beam
Here in South Africa we pay 80$ for a game. So there's that...
Considering youre headed towards a genocide and then a famine, I dont think SA is really an inspiration to the world.
Maybe to the left.
@@thecombodeluxe3109 true
Thank god you're here, Gundam. Without folks like you, I'd feel like I was screaming into the void and no one was there to listen. I haven't been truly interested in or excited for a AAA game for ages. The straw that broke the camel's back was actually an Indie game (Starbound) but there's been countless disappointments such as Skyrim, Bioshlock Shitfinite and more recently Fallout 4. I see so much of gaming being mindless bullshit and using tired movie tropes and trying to be movies. None of this shit was worth the price. Overwatch wasn't worth the price. I outright refuse to buy games now with loot boxes or microtransactions.
Gaming is my biggest hobby, I want to make games and I'm sick to fucking death of the modern game industry being nothing but flash with no substance and trying to milk everyone for every penny they can. The single greatest form of story telling and entertainment is being reduced to a putrid shambling undead corpse of what it should be and it's fucking killing me inside. When I'm looking at what's happening to the gaming industry, it feels like I'm fucking drowning just below the surface of the water and seeing all these shills defending loot boxes or the rancid shit that was Fallout 4 and other equally bad games are pushing me farther down into the fucking water.
My own fucking brother defends this shit to my face. "That's just the way things are now. It's not going to change. What are you going to do, just not buy any games with Microtransactions?" Yeah, actually, that's exactly what I'm doing. "Don't you think you're over analyzing Fallout 4 and Skyrim and ruining an experience you'd otherwise enjoy?" No, actually, thinking about a game shouldn't make it worse. I shouldn't need to turn my brain off to enjoy what is supposed to be an RPG with depth and a well written story. Expecting some consistency in storytelling, ESPECIALLY IN A GOD DAMN RPG, then getting the completely contradictory plot canyon that is The Institute (as well as the rest of Fallout 4's """"""""""story"""""""""") is a good reason to find issue with a game. Bethesda was so dead set on their shitty fucking twist as if it was the holy grail of story telling that they turned the entire main story and every interaction up to that point a fucking contrivance to not spoil it for a retarded and underwhelming twist instead of making an actually good story that makes sense.
JakerK017 I feel you, it's all so hollow and pointless.
JakerK017 nice gouge at sao abridged lol. I'm gonna go scream into the void, oh look! There it is now. XD
Preach it to me, brother.
sara hujik sao abridged? Never even heard of it, sorry
Its all just casualised shit, non memorable garbage. The older relaeses are best
one of the main problems is they don't know what the term "micro" means. $2.50 for a key?!?!?!?! that's not micro. Killing floor 2 has the same price point for a key to a box you might not even fucking get through gameplay. Look at Sea of thieves.... no content, no progression system, grind on three sets of the same quests over and over again and now the first piece of content they are bringing out in 3 months is going to be, you guessed it, micro transaction- DLC. That game clearly is garbage and no where near worth $60
"The graphic of new games is much better than the older games, so therefore development cost is higher"
is not a good argument at all.
Sure the graphic is better, but the tools they use also far better and easier to use. PS4 and Xbox have better graphic then Sega Saturn, but in PS4 and Xbox, they can write the game in any language they want and compile it to the machine language, while in Saturn it's mostly done in assembly language.
In modern console someone can write the AI without thinking about how the rendering process take place, but in Sega, you need to think about CPU resource pipelining and processing priorities to make sure the CPU can draw on the screen at the determined FPS while having time to calculate the game logic.
not only that , today the use the same textures and models in every game and just boost the shaders and call it a new game
It's literally just corporate shilling.
The voice of that extra credits guy is so damn annoying.
Ill pay YOU to deliver him to The End fer that. How'sat?
Kinda reminds me of Todd 'I am a smug tool' Howard
The End sounds like Spirit Science just for videogames
Thank god I'm not the only one.
The voice is like that because it's sped up. They started making the videos for extra credit in class and had to work to a time limit and they kept it.
PC games in the 90's were made by nerds, for nerds. That's exactly why it's such a golden age. Early 00's that culture lived on in mods. Then came a drought of good games. Games were made for the lowest common denominator; cut-scenes, quick time events, controller limitations, linear with no consequences for failure and much too easy.
Indie games are about 80% of the games I play, the rest is mainly small budget games where they dared to do something aimed at a niche. AAA is cancer.
@Jacob St.Clair lol some one is salty and lacks a argument.
@Jacob St.Clair Someone sucked at the old Elder Scrolls and Fallouts
Personally I’d rather buy a AAA game than an indy game. Better graphics, the scale and scope of things feels much larger and grander and most of my friends play AAA. Nothing against indy games and those who like playing them but personally, indy games are a turn off for me
@Jacob St.Clair Wait, as opposed to what? The mind numbingly simplified modern versions of pretty much every great series I played in the past. Fallout died when Beth got their hands on it, Fallout 3 was a great Fallout-themed game but a shit Fallout game. Or how about Dungeon Keeper? yeah, I'm throwing a tantrum because one of the greats was reduced to a fucking money grabbing cellphone app. You know what I hate, the whiney fucking ADHD Halo-bro crowd that came in and demanded everything turn based be made real time because they're too damn impatient for strategy and would rather mash buttons.
This is why I stick to jrpgs.
I know what I'm gonna get when I pay them 20~30 bucks.
I think games aren't nearly as good anymore simply because the stories aren't stories. Instead of having a character driven experience that tells a story about something, its just a simple plot outline that's been filled out by a 4th grader.
"Exposition- Introduce the generic, messiah character"
"Rising Action- Oh no, something has made our character move, remaining static with no development as he is forced into the next plot point, rather than driving the plot through his own initiative"
You get the rest. Badabing badaboom, CALL OF DUTY: WWII (BECAUSE WE TOTALLY HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE THIS WAR 3 TIMES ALREADY!!)
Call of Duty 2 is the only good COD btw.
Lilium literally Watch Dogs 😂
They're costing more money because these publishers are focusing too much on the graphics. We don't need to see every pore in their face, Mass Effect 2's graphical fidelity was flashy enough. But they'd rather impress people with HD graphics as if standing in front of a kid and jingling bells in front of him rather than create better games with better mechanics, stories, or characters.
And that's the problem. Half the time, all the graphics are used for is to market a flashy gimmick or trailer. As in, "look, our trailer is made with this fabulous in-game engine! Look at how shiny and colorful everything is!" I mean, look at Order 1886. The concept alone for that game could have made it the next Halo. Immortal knights caught between political strife and a war between werewolves and vampires, using steampunk weapons tech to fight monsters. Instead we got another Gears of War clone, whereareas Mass Effect 2 already did the whole "Gears of War but with better graphics" thing back in 2010.
To me, there was no reason to move forward from the graphical standards that Halo Reach and Mass Effect 2 achieved, so they should have focused more on improving gameplay mechanics and making the act of playing the game FUN and repeatable. Wanna know why people keep coming back to play Halo on higher difficulties even though the game can be as hard as stone balls? Because it's fun. Wanna know why people waste endless hours on games like KOTOR, Mass Effect, Oblivion, and Skyrim? Because it's fun. Wanna know what kept the Mario spinoff games good instead of boring? Most of the party and racing games were fun. Fun is the lifeblood of any game series, and the lack of it causes the series to fall.
I don't think it's even that, it's that every game studio is now a hundred productive people and eight hundred middle managers.
And why in God's name is that? They ought to cut the fat and leave only the ones they need.
HolyknightVader999
It's because they've gone from small studios run by enthusiasts to big corporations run by money, so if you didn't have a second vice director of flexible compliance in the department of redundancy department the shareholders would get pissy because EA has one of those dammit.
+CruelestChris
And that is why the industry as a whole will remain in limbo until it becomes run by the gamers again.
Games are already 80 to 100 dollars, thats the full experience. 60 dollars only gets you a sample. These analyses of why games should be more are only bassing there point on shelves than the disc itself.
The thing as well, is that when you take exchange rates into account a lot of places games have cost over 60 dollars for a while already. Most AAA games cost the equivalent of 70-80 dollars already in pounds. Plus all the extras tend to be a higher equivalent cost too. A game can easily be 140 dollars here.
Ridiculous. Great video Gundam.
So then they would sell us $70 games with loot boxes, mt, dlc, and season passes. Fantastic. Sorry i love extra credits but they’re wrong. This industry is evil.
breadordecide oh no. There should be a rule if looy boxes are involved they should cost 20 bucks or free.
silvafox07 Yeah, there are no rules in this industry.
Extra credit ment pay the extra money and not have Dlc loot boxes or season passes.
Devon Wilson We know, but do you think companies will charge $70 and not charge for dlc and microtrans? Hello no, they are making billions. No chance in hell are they going to lose that money for an extra $10 a game.
Just like this world...
The praise for CD projekt Red has aged poorly. Love your stuff keep doing what you're doing.
i refuse to buy any game with loot boxes i know that im just one person and it means little but i am not some wallet that is here just to fork over cash. i posted this on other channels too but i feel it needs to be said agian and agian . Boycott lootbox games
Yup. I am proud to say that I haven't spent one extra penny on that shit. Not even once. Even with DLC, there has only been a handful of times that I have done that, Witcher 3, Fallout 4, maybe two others. Fuck these greedy ass companies making garbage products. It's getting to the point that it's hard to even find a game that I enjoy playing outside the indie realm. Hell, between Terraria, Minecraft, Slime Rancher, Stardew Valley and Subnautica, I've probably spent 4000 hours between those. Zero extra money outside the initial purchase. It all started with mobile games....it's fucked up how something that is not even barely a game got it's claws into the real game market, and now "players expect to see microtransactions". Gimme a fucking break.
I never really believed in games being expensive to make. If a company make a good game that people will buy, the company will get their money back and so much more. I know every company can't make a GTA V but smaller companies could make something as cheap as a COD clone. All they need to do is add their own little spin on the FPS genre and give what the fans want. That's how you get triple the amount you put in, by giving the fans what they want.
Game dev costs are mostly wages. Imagine paying 300 people 55K every single year for 4 years. Thats alot of money. That is expensive.
Mike M Not to mention the colossal amounts of money big AAA publishers dump into marketing the game, and yes you have to market the game or nobody will hear about it or be interested in it, and then having to pay all those famous online personalities to "review" the game after an all expenses-paid trip down to some posh convention (basically bribing the journalists to get them to only say good things about the game).
Gallifreyan, in the industry they generally separated game development costs from marketing costs. That is why I didn't mention marketing.
also the computers and other tools they use to make the games maybe even a sound stage lol cos that shit is also expencive af just one render farm pc is worth a good $10k (AAA devs i mean)
small time devs probably dont have quatro cards and likely have to rent studio time but there is still a sizeable cost of entry there
Their own twist is fine but those big companies tend to just copy it. Look at titanfall. They popularize the trend of freedom of moving and shooting every and any direction including wall running and super high air sniping. Then activision tried to copy it in BO3 and infinite warfare to meh reviews.
I think that the AAA game industry is going to eventually cannibalize itself. They forget that each game competes against other games and so they just throw in micro transactions to make up the difference. I can’t buy another rpg because of witcher 3 - I doubt any game will be as good. I can’t really buy any open world game because BOTW - I don’t any game would be as good. Those two games I can’t decide which I like more. And I haven’t found a game I liked as much as those two.
Luke Kinder BOTW?
Aizakku breath of the wild
My problem with Witcher three is I cant find any lower level quests
@28:55 "We're going to have to learn to live with loot boxes..."
Or the studios and investors might have to learn to accept smaller profit. Nobody HAS to buy these games at all. Here is a suggestion to the studios, learn to accept smaller profits, or learn to accept no profits; because this approach of treating your customers like ATMs, that you can hit up every time you are failing to hit projections, is really starting to piss a lot of people off, and turning them away from paid gaming entirely.
00:35. That snake part is so funny "STFU!"
Extra Credits is more like Extra Hindsight. Yes if you adjust for inflation then that 75$ statement is a true. The cost of develop a game is higher than before, but also games sell much easier, wider than before too so in the end, they actually get more profit even if the game stay at 60$. Also, if AAA publisher stop spending 60% of their goddam budget on PR, marketing bullshit then the cost of making a game will be lower than it actually be right now.
games are actually cheaper to produce nowadays , as in they're easier to make
Cost of production getting less, must spend another 10m for PR/Marketing bullcrap.
And now they’re calling people who play Nazis in games in the multiplayer modes actual Nazis. Extra Credits sucks.
Oh, and they’re right, games should not cost 60 bucks anymore, they should be cheaper, especially if they’re going to continue hoisting garbage business practices on us.
Just let the ""game"" """"industry"""" die.
The way things are going the Triple A game industry will kill its self before the indie industry goes.
"let the past die" - Ben Swolo.
Pretty much. The current state is the head eating itself from the foot. It works for a while but eventually it will kill itself.
let the people that think they are hollywood writers and directors *LEAVE THE GAME INDUSTRY*
Morgen Anderson Its not dying.
7:32 Every gamer disliked this part.
EA decided to marry Extra Credits because of this part.
I still don’t get why people defend companies like EA lmao, do they not realise they couldn’t give less of a fuck ?
A little math, where i come from i pay around 70-80 Chf for a tripple a title and did so since 2003. That are around 75-85 $. I used to get a full experience for that, nowadays i can be happy when the husk of a game i buy is playable at launch. Add to that 50 chf or 55$ for premium / season pass, because i want the full experience, leaving me at a lower price total of atleast 120 chf or 140$.
Now if i wanted the full game not just the experience, i would need to buy special editions which themselves would go upwards to 120 chf, without most dlc, however god beware the cosmetics or objects are hidden behind rng, like overwatch does it, or destiny, etc, because that is depending on the volume of cosmetics hidden behind rng.
Also don't let us forget the fact, that many companies now make smaller and smaller dlc or just cut up a game and try to force you to preorder, for exemple what the total war series did with the greek city states in rome II or Chaos in the first warhammer total war, and we didn't even talk about paradoxs disgusting dlc policy with games like EU 4 now having quadrupled the cost.
I remember when EC was good, i do, but this Video was a shilljob, also they are now hiding critical comments, seems like they lack decency nowadays.
Edit: and there are those that defend the fucking lootbox shemes and complain about it when the government does it's job and regulates gambling for minors until their fav. game gets cut up and sold in rng bs cases or another form.
Conclusion: AAA games are too expensive and use in most cases disgusting and moraly questionable means of monetization.
In Canada, I paid around 92$ for triple A games. I don't want spends another 10-15$ for a base game
Tell the game industry to do better.
Thank you so much for being a brutally honest voice. I know the odds are stacked against you with the many of companies doing all of these extra cash grab shit and all the money they have to get them out of situations and all the defenders channels trying to influence giving our wallets to these companies. There are not too many ppl fighting back against these guys besides the you tubers like you and the investigations they will prolly go no where. So just keep on keeping on bc eventually they’re gonna hit a brick wall.
I think this whole argument is stupid. Even if you believe game companies need more money there is no way raising the price will help. Adding 10 or 20 bucks to the retail cost of a game can't compete with the millions they are getting from whales. If the prices ever do go up you know the DLC, Loot boxes and everything else will still remain.
Extra Credits should just close themselves down.
Nah, the entirety of Extra Credits are SJW pandering libtards who wish to bring their politics AND ONLY THEIR POLITICS into more games for some reason. They've always been bad and give misinformation.
Dude, you should have more subs... I like your rants. Keep up the good work.
Love you bro love the Slash reference in the beginning.
th-cam.com/video/SFKnv1YzI3k/w-d-xo.html
Remember this video where it describes how game companies hide billions of dollars in tax havens instead of using them to make better games, I do.
ledrtrollface Bastards
Extra credits are true soibois.
i think i watched this back in the day before you blew up. like what 30k subs or so. this was one of the 1st videos i watched of yours.
The background music sounds A LOT like Dinosaur Jr. and you made many solid points, I dig it.
This channel has inspired me to give up on console gaming and upgrade my pc. So far I'm enjoying my freedom. :) fuck the hype!
In some ways i agree. Too many so called "AAA" games/companies are so low quality that you find little reason to keep playing console. PC has more options compared to the crappy developers you are stuck w/ in console.
I know I'm late to this party but I don't think you are correct with Overwatch being the original king of loot boxes. FiFa and the "Wilson" Loot Box really lead to this. FiFa Loot Boxes were raking in the cash before OverWatch was ever a thing.
First video of your I stumbled upon, great rebuttals. I like this style, liked and subscribed
Oh shit a 35min Gundam vid - HYPEEE
I don't buy games at $60 anyway unless they're something I HAVE TO have. The new God of War will probably be the ONLY full price game I buy all year - unless something I've been waiting for is announced at E3 (which I doubt). BUT, if games go up past $60, then I'm not buying ANY of them at full price. And if they have micro-transactions at $60, then "fk this sht I'm out"!
Yeah I'm in the same boat. MTs and lootboxes are an automatic pass for me. Probably the only game I feel like buying at full price currently is the Monster Hunter World PC release.
Yeah I rarely buy games, and when I do they're always on some kind of sale many years after launch. The way I see it, it's never worth the full price and even if it is, you're still not objective when something is new, you're biased by the marketing and the hype. Once a few years pass by, not only has the price dropped down to what the game's actually worth, but there'll be general consensus on whether or not the game is actually good or not by that point. Genuinely good games stand the test of time, but if it's forgotten and uncared for after release, that means it's a weak game with little substance to it and people only bought it because they were hyped when it was new.
Gallifreyan Buccaneer - Jon Pertwee (3rd Doctor) was THE best Doctor EVER, IMO. ;-)
Axess2084 Yes, he was definitely one of the best. :)
麻宮 アテナ2003 How is having a season pass any better?
I will never hear the voices from Extra Credits and not associate them with SpiritScience
Haha I feel your pain
I think it is obvious games are getting cheaper to make. You don’t need to dig into the company’s finances. It’s obvious because games are being pumped out like mass manufactured paper plates. You can’t just make something expensive easily if you could it would instantly be cheap unless you controlled production.
Bro! The ups and downs of life! Keep up the very entertaining content!
If the game was good in the first place, people will happily paid for it
But with the "triple A" games nowaday, 60$ is way too overprice
LeadFaun exactly
KaL | Well you're gonna need to elaborate on that, pal. 'Cause we can't exactly give any sort of value to what you're saying if you just keep it vague.
KaL | Oh. So you were talking about the folks who do buy into these practices. Yeah well you did need to "spell it out" dude, 'Cause your first post implied that the people who speak up against those are the problem as in speaking against these practices is itself part of the problem whereas what you meant was "the people who complain still buy the things they complain about therefore they are still part of the problem" were them "speaking about it" isn't the problem it's them "buying while still complaining" that makes them hypocrites on top of reinforcing the problem. See, there's the part in the middle that wasn't there in your first post. I'm sure it sounded perfectly clear in your head pal, but it was a bit confusing hence why I asked you to elaborate on it before passing any judgement. I do agree with what you say though now that it's clear.
KaL | What tone ? It's a written message. I guess you interpreted the "pal" as something aggressive. Look, let's not make it a debate especially when there's no need for one, it simply appeared to me that you were bashing critics for speaking out against bad practices so I asked you to elaborate, you did it turns out what you meant was different and I agree with what you meant. So let's leave it at that. Have a good one.
9:35 So, you watch CrowbCat too. I like you Gundam, you're alright.
Nothing to say other than I enjoy your content and blunt, no-shit attitude. It gives something to work towards being so honest.
I can't like this video enough my man. Keep on rocking in the free world.
gameplay > graphics
I come from two schools of thought on this topic. I've been watching Extra Credits for about five years now, and the channel has some incredible insight on what it's like to be behind the monitors of a project in game development. People who dismiss the channel outright and spit the word "shill" at the slightest provocation of a person(s) playing advocate in some capacity for a developer are silly. On the other hand, I've been into games for over 15 years, and have watched the progress of the industry closely. Extra Credits missed a huge amount of valid points with the topic they chose, from both sides of the conflict, but they have stated that there will be more videos coming later that expand on the subject.
Extra Credits, and just so anyone who reads this knows, there's an entire team behind the channel, not just the mouthpiece for the group. They try to tackle a broad array of topics in tasteful ways that you could show your parents, or your boss, or really anyone else who doesn't give a fuck about gaming.
You do a disservice to yourself by huffing and puffing about a channel saying something opposite to what we believe. We will only ever be taken seriously if we don't spit vitriol and attempt to discredit any source because they say something you don't like.
AlhazredTheMad Dissagree. The level of preaching and 'Your wrongthinking and here is why' has been on the uptick. It has turned me off on them. Games may matter to them, but do Gamers matter to them?
Fairly stated. However, I find it's quite difficult to approach a topic that Extra Credits covers in the same way that say, Gundam does, for many reasons. EC staff has been (and may well currently be) employed in/by the industry, whereas Gundam, and by extension most of us, are consumers of said industry. If these guys have to return to their workplace after roasting their bosses and chairmen of the company they work for on a daily basis, I think they would be hard pressed for employment, or even general satisfaction.
We have the liberty of calling the fuckers at the top out for what we believe they are: money-grubbing goblins that refuse to die until they see how many solid gold cock rings they can fit on to their dog.
I don't even really watch American football or care about the social politics surrounding the incident, but just look at the Kapernick guy acting our against the people he worked for.
Lol imagine thinking EC isn't just a shill for the corporate under a veil of Social Justice.
This is an incredible video
This video is ahead of jts time checking in from almost the end of 2022, games are now 70 dollars
Due to inflation alone...
Economist here - that isn't how inflation works. It isn't some mysterious force that makes everything cost more.
The demand is higher, therefore it should cost more daaaa /s
Its so fucking dumb that people think that its in any way "natural" that AAA cost more. They just start increasing the price until they hit the :"noone buys it anymore" barrier. Then they cut the content of the base game and keep it at 60 bucks and release the rest in a dlc which costs then 20 Dollars, or a season pass for 40-60 dollars. So now you payed what they wanted. And in the case of borderlands 3 they even release a second season pass but the first one only included 2 medium long expansions and 2 shortass expansions. And its a goddamn grindgame. Then advertise shit like "Super Deluxe Edition" which includes the "expansion pass" (but hey lets not tell them we make a 2nd year hoho, funny meme.) Its a joke.
What ever happened to the market adage "Sell cheap, sell plenty" (or whatever it was that they said back in the middle ages)...How many Ford's are sold compared to Rolls Royce's. Deliver a game worth the hype then maybe people will buy proper DLC...oh wait, the Witcher 3 did that already. Witcher 3 is not the perfect game, it has its issues and game mechanics that can be a little awkward until you get used to it. Witcher 1 sucked, Witcher 2 I just wasn't invested in, just couldn't like it...Witcher 3 was the game changer and when its DLC came out...it was totally new stuff, it even unlocked another country. The division opened up new map areas, its rocky start seems to have corrected itself but the CoD games and Star Wars games and MOBA's and now this flood of Battle Royale games and of course the Huge open worlds of BethesdaLand and UbiSwamp full of fetch and carry busy work and a story line that's about as deep as a puddle of piss. Stop making these kinds of crap, we've had enough.You want to sell a game, sell it at a reasonable price, with enough content to last oh I don't know...at least a day. Make the game so fucking good that when DLC is announced for it...people actually pre-order it in anticipation and when it arrives...it's GOOD! So good in fact that nine months later when the developers give birth to a second DLC the game's own hype pushes the sales of it through the roof. Marketing has sold us shit and called it caviar and we are done eating shit...we'd like the caviar next time please.Love watching your vids Gundam...It's like listening to De Niro telling you to adhere to what he is telling you, and you do, because he's waving a very large flamethrower around. You grab people's attention and they listen to you.
Dude I always love your stuff. Yea I check out Jim too but you're bang on point man.
Keep banging on - because games matter
Gundam, James from ExtraCredits is a game developer, that's why he wants people to reward them.
As an fan of extra credit was that video bad. It is stupid that he thinks that te industries works that way. But this was an fun video to listen to I agree with you.
I'm sorry I always thump my head on a wall when I hear this claim, over and over.
The graphical claim. That guy knows this works against him right? To use Ubisoft as the punching bag here, they make these tech demos showcase off as actual gameplay, then the game gets downgraded. If this is one of the reasons for gaming becoming more expensive then I've noticed huge wastage here. So effectively Ubisoft has hired dozens of artists, spent millions of dollars working on graphics which will be never used in the game ever.
Means of production. When you have an engine and you've made several titles all similar in genre (like FPS) by default and natural progression of understanding the tech, these games should be taking steps further right? If you use the same engine you get more familiar with it so you can make more features and refine the process more, therefore cost of production goes down. This is how industry works, yet gaming seems hell bent on removing basic features in the name of 'streamlining'.
I never liked Extra Credits, they came across as preachy and condescending at times, the speaker has zero experience in the industry, the advisor (James I think) teaches how to make games at a game design school, yet has never published a title in his life.
Downscaled textures and shaders will not cost less, since it's matter of amount of them, not fidelity. Artist can draw a texture in any resolution for same price and in most cases draw in the biggest reasonable possible resolution. Cost of storage of that raw hi-res media files is insanely low. Question is if shitty consoles hardware will be capable of rendering it. And of course, nobody will bother with upscaling those textures back for PC, since leaving everything as it is cost less. Point is 60 textures in x resolution will still cost more than 30 textures in x/4 resolution, because you need more man hours of artists time.
Textures are one aspect, and yes I know about the downscaling most artists work at the high-res then downscale it. However I am mostly referring to all things graphical in nature shown in the videos below.
th-cam.com/video/R2NJSAvuiQ0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/EWJD8DMasCU/w-d-xo.html
A lot of those features had to be removed, now being fair, those videos are back in 2013. So there might be the chance of them not getting developer kits for PS4 and Xbox One, so they had no frame of reference on what they could do graphically speaking.
A good looking game is more about style then it is about fidelity. Darkest Dungeons, X-Com and Persona5 are examples i bring to the table.But im sure some one will point out those are not AAA games, Still paying out the nose for hyper real graphics wont cut it with everyone. So it feels like a more of an excuse then anything else. Style over substance please.
Just found your channel, you rock m8.
no extracredit burn bandwagon just insight citing and calm fury. Ill be staying I think.
@ 23:00 I want that Gabe cartoon on a shirt
Games are pretty much $75 now 😔
"we're running out of bandwidth, guise"
Great video my dude
Ya and in 2005 a chunk of that 60 bucks was shelf space, the box, the physical media and booklets and a /complete/ game. Now we pay for a digital download we don't really own, that we're lucky is in a finished state six months after it's released. It can vanish or stop working at any time they turn the servers off.
Can you imagine if games where 79.99? Heh.. "cries in canadien"
As much as I like EC, I am glad to see them get reamed over this.
Great video, keep up the good work fella. Peace ✌️
I like this guy. Other youtubers are "pleasant", they sound "friendly", but this guy sounds real. I appreciate that, thank you sir.
movies take millions to make and they don't cost 60bucks games should have never cost that much tbh
Please roast their new video 💀
So embarrassing lol
I'm watching this 4years later and i am shocked with what that guy is saying how much was he payed for saying that crap
That clip of theirs is the last one I've seen from them lol
Look at what was it called? Forsaken?
If they actually made good games everytime and released without a hitch. Yeah I’d say go ahead, you deserve it, but that doesn’t happen.
"Not all games are made equally." 100% 👌👌👌
Greetings from August 2019! Game Publishers have really shown their avarice since this video was posted!
I am also tired of this sh**. Maybe publishers should not own game studios?
The only MTX I wasn't too bothered with, were those in Titanfall 2. A skin pack for like $3 I think? Gave you like 20+ skins, that's not too bad. And then there's the Prime Titans, about $7, however, the price makes sense considering they have their own model, new animations, new textures, etc. So, it pays for the R&D of creation
I had no idea that the Spirit Science channel did gaming videos too (lol)
Suddenly relevant