Perhaps the next theorem video could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Dragonite theorem
Zacian is still strong and playable in VGC (usually paired with Chien-Pao) in ultra agressive lineups. The issue is.. fast agressive teams are easy to break in VGC so once the suprise factor is out.. its goodnight :P But yeah all it took for Zamazenta to become the Topdog was Bodypress.
Addendum for Reshiram: Recently, a new metagame between Ubers UU and OU was made, known as Ubers RU. It was made so Reshiram could have somewhere to be. ...In Ubers RU, Reshiram is wholly outclassed by Kyurem-White.
at a certain point you’d think the Fire STAB would be at least somehow slightly preferable but that’s just the way it goes when your only other main selling point is having a mediocre defensive typing Vs a bad one
I think it's fascinating that Ubers has been possible to be divided into 3 tiers and each one forms its own distinct meta game It actually proves how right I've been about power creep and Ubers bloat the last year or so
Deoxys N extra bulk really goes for granted, while deoxys N can survive a choice banded lick from gastly 100% of the time (even with a crit) Deoxys A will faint to lick from said gastly 81% of the time truly a huge differnce
@@rayannarayanan9101 It's just an example of a really weak attack that Deoxys N barely survives that will likely kill Deoxys A, as a way to mockingly point out how little Deo N's extra bulk really matters (especially in ubers where everything will tear them apart all the same).
Smogon tried to use Deoxys-N "bulk" both in X/Y and S/M with two specific sets (Chilan Berry with Counter as "Normal Arceus "check"" for the former and Kasib Berry as "Marshadow lure" for the latter). They are still a "trying to give it something to do" sets that must not take too much damage before (or they will fail the single thing they should do).
Interestingly, the Solgaleo x Dusk Mane dynamic is completely flipped in VGC. Turns out when Intimidate and Max Move stat drops can be ignored completely, and you can set up Trick Room with a great defensive typing, there’s a lot of value.
Same with Zamazenta-Crowned, getting Body Press in gen 9 gave it new life in VGC, where it actually outclasses Zacian in that format and has had a lot of great tournament success in restricted formats.
That’s something I will never understand. Smeargle was the problem and simply making Dark Void exclusive to Darkrai would have solved the issue since mythicals arent allowed in vgc
Dark Void was a problem beyond vgc and battle simulatpra. It was a nerf to the move itself because it was too toxic in online battles where there's no "sleep cause" or 50 different regulations that metalords are too comfortable being in that they forget how the base game online battles work. I was doing online battles in Pokémon X version. Those Darkrai giveaways during gen 6 turned every online battle into Dark Void a whole team as they slowly die to Bad Dreams. That is why in the next generation they slashed it's accuracy. If Darkrai wasn't made so freely available, you wouldn't be getting Dark Void Smeargle because of how rare it would be without hacking in the move. I'm tired of people outing themselves as only being smogon-exclusive battlers, while complaining about a change made for the better health of the pokemon video game online battle experiences.
If you're wondering how all of these hold up in Ubers UU, here's a rundown Deoxys is one of the best offensive pokemon in Ubers UU in general, since it's ridiculous stat line make it have virtually no switch Ins outside of Magearna. It's tough to get in the field but considering there's a ton of good pivot users, it's not that tough and it always delivers in offensive teams. Solgaleo is sadly not that good either. It used to be a lot better but it has very little things over Magearna. It's very passive and can't really make progress into a lot of Arceus forms. It's been falling off considerably and it still has issues into Landorus-I. Reshiram is definitely niche but underrated in the tier. It serves as a bulky attacker who's offensive typing let's it threaten most of the top defensive walls, with it's only good 'check' being Arceus (who's scared of a burn). It's biggest issues is a lack of reliable recovery of any kind alongside its own accuracy and lack of PP on Blue flare (which means it can often run out of PP due to the amount of pressure mons in the tier). It isn't as outclassed by Kyurem white as you might originally think because Kyurem white Is a Choice specs blizzard spammer in the tier, and it's terrible defensive typing means it's bad as a bulky attacker Arceus bug is one of the Arceus forms of all time. It has a niche, definitely. As it is good into Landorus-I, but at the same time it's rocks weak and an Arceus form. Not that good, not unusable but definitely one of the worst Arceus forms. Zamazenta is overall the most 'pretty solid' and 'average' pokemon in the tier overall. You always know what it's going to do, you always know it gets walled by the same pokemon, it doesn't really matter because it is really good at what it does, which is to stop offensive teams and Arceus forms like Dark. Not much to say, just pretty solid.
Honestly I'm happy Deo-N finally has a place to shine. Poor guy has been overshadowed by Deo-A since Gen 3, it's nice to finally see Deo-N have something going for him.
Yup, I immediately thought of Lugia. An iconic box legendary that had a strong start as "The Wall" but became irrelevant since. Not even UUbers saves it.
That, and Zamazenta needs Recover. Also undo the nerfs, give Zacian +20 SpA and then give Zamazenta +10 Def and +10 Atk or SpD. Even so, it wouldn't be a good wall because GF decided it needed to have base 92 HP, so bulk efficiency is down the toilet.
@@alexsieh3089They should have nerfed Zacian by moving its reduced attack points to sp.atk so that Zama isn't affected. But alas they made Zama collateral in an attempt to nerf his sister.
@@alexsieh3089 I wouldn’t say it needs that move. Surely didn’t need it to overcome Zacian in VGC despite the nerds, and I think it’s a fine disadvantage to have in a vacuum.
Since they're clearly trying to make Zamazenta defensive but built to deal Damage, making Behemoth Bash work like body press should be a must, even more now that Dynamax doesn't exist anymore.
I still wonder how much better (or worse?) Deoxys-Normal would be competitively if it actually had more "balanced" stats like if it had 110 in all other stats, except HP which would have to be 50 like all other forms. At the very least it would make more sense if Deoxys-N was actually more of an all-rounder stat wise instead of basically being a lesser Deoxys-A.
Remember that Mew, a mono-Psychic with 100 in all stats, is NUBL. 50 HP with 110 in all other stats is still not particularly good bulk (much worse than Mew's), and not a particularly good speed tier either. It would probably end up in OU, or maybe even UU, as a utility mon that can hit hard, since it has a ridiculously powerful STAB in Psycho Boost.
It never made any sense to me that Deo-N is just Deo-A lite. I don't know how much better it would be with balanced stats but at least it would be distinct.
"Being bulkier than the least bulky Pokemon in the game should not be mistaken for being able to take hits." (from "usage tips" of Deoxys-N only S/M set on Smogon, a Kasib berry "Marshadow lure". It was so desperate.)
Seeing Ho-oh mentioned in this video, it would be interesting to see a kind of inverse of this video. Something like "Ubers Pokemon that have not fallen off". Looking at what makes mainstays in Ubers actually work despite generational powercreep would be nice.
Kyogre nukes everything because it sets up a weather that actually helps its STAB and Ho-Oh can wear some boots and absolutely negate the thing that halved its HP on the switch, they know how to handle powercreep
@@lolidemon3163 Don fell of this gen a lot and Ray has been mid tbh like not bad but u could certainly use other better options like Koraidon. Not terrible but certainly not top 5 material like ho oh and Kyogre
It was still really good in its first two gens, and afterwards had some time as a cornerstone of Ubers stall. It’s definitely lackluster, but way better than anything on this list.
@@LordBeau stall is good in every iteration of ubers... Usually fuelled by ho oh and alomomola these days tho. Not altered Giratina. It was great old days tho
It goes beyond quite bad. They made an ubers UU tier specifically so lesser used ubers could actually get to play, but reshiram is bad in ubers UU too, so they made an ubers RU specifically to give Reshiram something to do, and Reshiram is now outclassed in ubers RU
Dialga-Origin is far and away one of the worst Ubers, if it existed for more generations and was more known out there it would've 100% been on this list. It's strictly inferior to base Dialga in every way
Although Dialga is a special attacker that rarely, if ever, uses its Attack, swapping its Attack and Special Defense is such a huge slap on the face especially considering that Origin Dialga can’t have Leftovers. Origin Palkia gets the better end of the stick because the Attack and Speed switch puts it at a better Speed tier to use its wide offensive movepool better.
@chaosgallade2331 yeah not to mention Dialga can just run Assault Vest to get that special bulk if it wants to, so it's really only good for stealth rock sets. It's a shame honestly
Mewtwo needs new abilities Reshiram is sadly outclassed by both Koraidon and Gouging Fire that it's sad. Heck it's not even used in UUBERS. That's how sad it's life is
Mewtwo getting Unnerve just for Caly S to come out faster and stronger, with added ghost type, and unnerve + special Moxie because it needed it is so funny lmao
I'm surprised Lugia wasn't mentioned here since it basically got nerfed in Gen 9 with the loss of Thunder Wave and Toxic as well as the Recover PP nerf
Sneaky pebbles are stronger in Ubers because it's very easy to blow up a rapid spinner or defogger considering all the 150+ base attack Pokemon in the tier.
Deo-N, Zama-C, and all Arceus forms should 100% stay Uber, but I honestly believe Reshi and Sol should be tested in OU. There are multiple non-Ubers that are better Pokémon than them - Lando-T, Gliscor, and the Geeta Duo (Glimmora and Kingambit) immediately come to mind. Sol would be interesting in particular; it would essentially fill the niche that Metagross used to fill before power creep pushed it out.
this is random but the way you narrate is extremely gratifying. how much care you put into your script is evident. the diction, the syntax…. it’s almost musical the way syllables line up. you’re great at what you do!
Hot take lugia probably should have been on the list over reshiram for how awful it has been in recent gens. Reshiram at least has the luxury of being super outclassed rather than just sucking in its own right in ubers uu
I disagree. I honestly think Reshiram should've been #1, I think historically it's worse then Zamazenta-Crowned. It was bad even before Kyurem-White appeared and always has been bad since.
Ngl. I'd love an episode called "The Nat Dex Effect," examining Pokemon only good in NatDex but not standard play and Pokemon good in standard play but garbage in NatDex.
Honestly I think Solgaleo would be interesting - It lacks sword's dance/dragon's dance and only has calm mind and cosmic power as a set up move, meaning that the best its going do is maybe a late cleaner calm mind set - Offensively it actually has some really good options in sunsteel strike, psy fangs, close combat knock, flare blitz, earthquake, psychic (For zama), and has a great bulk and okay speed for an offensive threat. - Defensively it has a lot up good things going for it but being weak to gambit and ghost, along with darkari, tusk, moltres giving it grief could really hold it back But I think it honestly get a good amount of usage as a trick room setter, trick room/teleport on a mon with stats like Solageo that can get it off multiple times, and is pretty strong.
My hot take is that IMO, Necrozma Dawn-Wings should be there instead of Solgaleo, mainly due to species clause which you can only bring one Pokemon of species, and also cause its Dusk Mane form its better than Dawn Wings one.
@@skeetermania3202 in BW Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem all had functionally the same theme but with distinct thematic differences for facing each of them. The former two had sfx matching their types while Kyurem got a kickass baseline but sounded otherwise emptier throughout. In ORAS and Ultra SM, Zekrom’s variant was the theme used for all three of their encounters, possibly due in part to White being the original base build of Gen V, but the unique renditions make a return in SV.
The reason why Deoxys-normal falls short compared to Deoxys-attack can be broken down to a single reason: You don't need to worry about tanking hits if your opponent is already dead.
Deoxys base forms stats should be: 50 HP 110 all the rests Its actual stats doesn’t make any sense, maybe they created it without the other forms in mind
@@Placeholder-nc8yt Not really. Deoxys-N with those stats would be _far_ more offensively adept than Mew, especially when it comes to wallbreaking. Mew doesn't pack a base 140 power STAB move, after all. Deoxys does.
Id absolutely mention Dawn Wings being a worse Lunala which is already kinda mid but also preventing you from using Dusk Mane meaning youre just shooting yourself in the foot by using it
@@gratedshtick Sure, but power creep has made Lugia worse over the years and made it a weak Ubers mon over time, he’s definitely not as good as he was in the older games, but I can see if he doesn’t count as one
@@gratedshticklugia was pretty awful in ORAS and SM as well, mainly because in ORAS it needed 5 moves to not get trapped by gengar and was basically free momentum for darkrai to sleep something and in USUM it was free entry for ndm and got blasted by lunala, marshadow and basically every other viable offensive threat with rocks up. Granted SM easily has the best removal out of any Ubers tier, but it's still not easy to use this mon in a tier with Z move abusers that absolutely clocked it. Lugia quite literally hasnt been good since the Obama administration, which is kinda funny and kinda sad.
Slight addendum: While Deo-A does indeed gain power with its loss in bulk, it does not gain any speed. So Deo-A and Deo-N tie in speed. Obviously Deo-N is still the far worse minmaxer, but, uh, at least it looks more stylish in my opinion...?
Video Idea: Ranking all major trio of legendaries were the most balanced between each other. (lumping Mewtwo with Ho-oh/Lugia and Terapagos with Miraidon/Koraidon) This can also be done with Starters and Sub-legendaries too.
Because even if Zamazenta could screw up your Physical Attacker chance at beating him, he still does nothing when he gets on the field. What is he gonna do, Body Press? Just switch Lunala and wear him down, Zamazenta has zero recovery and doesn't do anything after he switches out because of his OneTime Ability
Another issue about Reshiram is that it just doesn't have the coverage such a nuke needs. It can drop a Draco and Blue Flare. That's about it. Even resisted, those moves are as strong as it's neutral non-stab options, especially since even a resisted Sun-boosted Blue Flare is still stronger than any coverage. While Kyurem White is stuck with Fusion Flare instead of Blue Flare and doesn't have stab with it, it gets Ice stab. KW having higher special attack means that its coverage deals more and helps compensate a bit for the loss of Blue Flare. And because of the increased stats, its Dracos are much more threatening. And it doesn't have that crippling EQ weakness. And then there's the fact that KW is faster at 95 base. Those 5 points in speed do matter, as it doesn't speed tie with a bunch of other Ubers. 90 base speed just isn't impressive anymore. If it doesn't want to be shut down by Fluttermane and other faster threats, Resh needs to be Scarfed. Thankfully, Blue Flare is still a nuke that nothing short of a bulky resist or Kyogre are willing to come in on.
I'm surprised that Dialga wasn't mentioned. Both of its forms are garbage, with the Origin Form being an unmitigated disaster. Dialga-Origin is so bad that in UUbers, the tier made for awful legendaries, it's UNRANKED, together with Baxcalibur in the D(o not use) tier. Volcarona, Archaludon, and Ogerpon-Wellsrping are considered stronger Pokemon in the metagame. And even in RUbers, where everything stronger than Espathra and Kyurem-White are banned, Dialga-Origin is considered bottom tier, in the same ranking tier as Dugtrio and base Kyurem. Dialga's normal form is also weak, it used to be one of the faces of UUbers, but now it's C+ on the viability rankings. But at least it's viable in RUbers. If you tested Dialga-Origin for OU, I wouldn't be surprised if it managed to underperform despite having 150 SpA with its STABs boosted 1.2x by its item. Even Zamazenta-Crowned is more useful than it.
Dialga had a great start, being one of the best mons in Gen 4 ubers and stayed strong in gens 5 and 6, but it was in gen 7 where it started to fall off a cliff
Both Zamazenta forms need access to Toxic and Recover to better perform as stall pokemon. Also, Dauntless Shield isn't overpowered if it activates every time it hits the field, so they should test if it should be returned to it's original use.
I feel like it should but if it does then intrepid sword should as well for consistency. Zacian probably won’t be broken with it plus the base stat nerf now. I definitely think zamazenta should get better recovery than… rest.
Returning Dauntless Shield to its old self would almost certainly get base Zamazenta kicked out of OU again. It _barely_ avoided a banhammer with the _nerfed_ Dauntless Shield.
I'll never understand the stat spread of Deoxys Normal, might be better suited to serve as a form like Terapagos's normal form to fit with the whole shapeshifting alien theme. Its a crime Deoxys Defense doesn't have access to Body Press just like it was that Zamazenta didn't in it's debut, these are Pokemon designed around the Defense stat.
A lot of these examples also fall victim to opportunity cost - not only are you not using a better pokemon, but you're also outright *prevented* from using certain better pokemon (Deoxys forms, other Arceus forms, etc) Could be a theorem in itself. A lot of "forms" like the Rotoms have completely different roles, but the rule all the way from Stadium was that you couldnt use pokemon with the same number on the same team. Ironically, this means that pokemon that are extremely similar like Blissey and Chansey can be used together, while pokemon as different as Kantonian and Galarian Zapdos can't.
While Zamazenta-Crowned definitely deserves to be on the list, I would argue that it should be a little higher (at least above Reshiram). This is because the mon actually does have a legitimate niche in Gen 8 Ubers as a defensive anti-meta mon. Its typing, combined with its static held item, means that it is the best Knock Off and Trick absorber in the game, which is really nice in a tier defined by Yveltal. It can check pretty much all variants of Yveltal, defensive sets of certain mons (like Ho-oh, Necrozma-DM, Eternatus, and Lunala), and pretty much all Ice-types. This niche was especially popular back when Weavile was trending up in usage in Ubers. That being said, this is merely a niche, as its limited movepool and lack of reliable recovery means that it struggles into some of the more offensive variants of the aforementioned mons (Ho-oh, Necrozma-DM, Recover variants of offensive Eternatus, etc.) and it is outclassed in its roles in some areas by Necrozma-DM. It ended up being C+ rank in VR, so a slight niche, but it is still leagues better than some of the other box art legends in Gen 8 (Dialga, Reshiram, Kyurem forms, Lugia, Solgaleo, Necrozma-DW, Zamazenta-Hero). Zama-C does struggle a bit more in Gen 9 to find a legitimate niche, especially in Koraidon land, as it is C rank in that meta's VR (do note that the VR has not yet updated from Miraidon's recent ban, but I doubt it would change its viability that much), but it is still higher than some other box art legends (it is in the same rank as Lunala, Zekrom, and Mewtwo funnily enough).
Man, I saw Mewtwo on the thumbnail and it had me like. "Oh no! Not my boy!" Had me watching the whole video ready to go into denial. Had my heart beating faster and faster as it got closer and closer to that No. 1 spot. I tip my hat to you FSG. You got me.
I would love a video on like, a general overview of the Uber tier, maybe across the generations (which pokemon / strategies were dominating, who rose up, who fell off etc.) It seems like such an interesting tier, but I know next to nothing about it. Like, my knowledge runs out at "Mewtwo in gen 1" and "Groudon/Kyogre in and after gen 3"
Actually Solgaleo is a great Pokemon in it's own right. It actually has higher effective Bulk AND Speed than NDM and also some unique moves that NDM doesn't have like Close Combat, Flare Blitz, Teleport etc. The issue is that NDM's ability is truly superb that makes it feel MUCH bulkier than Solgaleo in practise. Also that Attack boost is significant. The thing that truly holds Solgaleo back the fact that his movepool is quite sad. He gets no utility/setup moves like TWave, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, Stealth Rock, Photon Geyser, etc. This leaves any utilty role out of the question for Solgaleo and he is stuck trying to try all put offensive sets with his lowish attack stat by Ubers standards or just a Bulky Teleport pivot which has been used at different points in Ubers. If Solgaleo and NDM shared a movepool, NDM would still be better because his ability is busted but I could see a genuine case for taking Solgaleo's Speed advantage sometimes over NDM. I feel that saying NDM is Mega Solgaleo is really unfair because the maximum difference in viability comes by movepool and Solgaleo has quite a good Stat spread too if it had utility/setup moves to utilize his Bulk/Speed.
I wonder. New lower tiers of previous generations started appearing like gen 1 PU. Do you think we might possibly see those metagames covered at some point?
I've been waiting for a video like this Deoxys-N really does need like, 110 across the board so that it can truly be the neutral/balanced form-- stronger and bulkier than Speed, faster than Defense, way sturdier than Attack, right in the middle of them all
Perhaps the next theorem video could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Dragonite theorem
I'd put Arceus Bug AND Arceus Ice in 2nd Place because they are basically polar opposites of each other when taking into account the pros and cons of the two Types when you're not taking into account any immunities that one Type may have over the other (in terms of the number of Weaknesses and how common and easy to use or avoid the Weaknesses are in Battle, in Bug is better Defensively but worse Offensively compared to Ice while Ice is better Offensively compared but worse Defensively compared to Bug, vice versa)
At some point you will have to tell us who is the greatest OU Pokémon of all time. You're the only channel who can accomplish this task. Establishing the right criteria is totally up to you.
It would be hard considering how much the meta changes...I mean, even the greatest of the early mons have fallen to power creep. You'd have to have a like top 3 OU mons of all time (depending the gen)
@@AS34N it's hard, for sure, but they can do it. The secret could be to single out the obvious candidates and then a create score system using some sensible metrics (e.g. longevity, peak performance, dominance etc.). Mons from earlier gen could be at AN advantage but they should honestly, the answer should reflect the history so far.
Yeah, the one thing I never got about Deoxys N is why it's stats are so similar to A, it really should have had an almost even stat spread imo, would have been more thematic.
This isn't especially related to the video topic, but I think "glower" (pronounced like sour or tower) would be a great name for a special-attack intimidate
Sometimes I wonder if there was ever a chance that Behemoth Bash was supposed to use Zamazenta’s defense stat when attacking along with it not being nerfed alongside Zacian
Two concepts I had as passing thoughts: 1. This is when you mentioned Calyrex Shadowrider form: more intentional mechanics by Gamefreak, Pokémon that are only really good when they can combine. Aka the Kyurem White Theorem. Effectively, I'd say it should cover Pokémon that get form changes by a "Fusion" or "Forced Item" and how, like with Zacian it made it really good in Gen 8, but that due to the nerfs in Gen 9 it's just not s good legendary or how Zamazenta would really like Recover/Slack Off instead of Rest for recovery options (or to just not have to hold the Rusty Shield so it can use any other item) or how Necrozma Dusk Mane is the only real way to use Solgaleo because of how poorly the designed a freakin' box art! Additionally, Calyex Riders for both Calyex AND its steeds since, oh right, it's not very good by itself and neither horse is great (fast-ish, frail, special attacker or slow, bulky physical attack with perhaps the worst defensive typing in the game, ice), point is, if you can find enough examples of Pokémon that have to use an item, fuse, or otherwise take a negative for it to be a bigger positive than without fusing or specific items (something that Gen 8 did a lot for those legendaries), I'd love to see that deep dive. Deoxys Normal might qualify as you have to change from the base form to a different form and that Rotom got a lot better as the appliance forms, especially after Gen 4 when they picked up their secondary typing depending on the appliance. Not sure if you'd qualify those, but I'd definitely put Super? Mega? I forget the name, but the evolved Necrozma form that turns into a freaking dragon. Without Z-moves, the form can't be used, and until Megas come back in full, well, a multitude of Pokémon are untiered due to power creep, though, at this point the games are a lot healthier for Mega Pokémon. It'd be useful for Mega-evolution to also be a beginning of the turn effect like Tera-types. Oh, and also, Terapagos will be severely nerfed when or if Tera goes away. Meaning it'll just be a turtle with a fancy looking shell. 2nd thing you got me thinking about was related to how some Uber tier singles in name only are much better when released into Doubles format, as an example, when Zamazenta came into Gen 9 doubles, despite all the nerfs it got a buff with Body Press... but that was a Wolfey video (specifically Zamazenta), but I'm sure you can find other examples of bad Ubers that have, at some point, thrived in the official VGC format.
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Yeah, why not
Perhaps the next theorem video could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Dragonite theorem
My guess is shaymin. The one is Uber... Right?
Have you asked Factor about the Monkey Slavery? Because they definitely use monkey slavery.
Th-why-me? Lol
Zamazenta usurping and basically switching places with Zacian as one of the best restricted Pokémon in VGC will never not be funny
Talk about a win for the underdog
Zamazenta vindication
Zacian is still strong and playable in VGC (usually paired with Chien-Pao) in ultra agressive lineups. The issue is.. fast agressive teams are easy to break in VGC so once the suprise factor is out.. its goodnight :P But yeah all it took for Zamazenta to become the Topdog was Bodypress.
@@Y0G0FU can someone tell me like the top two strategies to breaking fast aggressive teams? I am not well-versed on double battling metas
@@Y0G0FUsomeone just watched the Wolfe vid :p
Addendum for Reshiram:
Recently, a new metagame between Ubers UU and OU was made, known as Ubers RU. It was made so Reshiram could have somewhere to be.
...In Ubers RU, Reshiram is wholly outclassed by Kyurem-White.
at a certain point you’d think the Fire STAB would be at least somehow slightly preferable but that’s just the way it goes when your only other main selling point is having a mediocre defensive typing Vs a bad one
Doesn't it also have gouging fire now as competition for the powerful dragon/fire mon
I think it's fascinating that Ubers has been possible to be divided into 3 tiers and each one forms its own distinct meta game
It actually proves how right I've been about power creep and Ubers bloat the last year or so
Oooooof
@@baxterbruce9827 not to mention at least one mon now gets the anything goes treatment, zacian, miraidon, mega rayquaza, calyrex-shadow
My favorite false swipe gaming moment is whenever he starts talking about Arceus and immediately starts speaking like a video game priest
It's kinda fun. It reminds me of the DPP/BW Arceus Smogon overviews where they would do the same
Deoxys N extra bulk really goes for granted, while deoxys N can survive a choice banded lick from gastly 100% of the time (even with a crit) Deoxys A will faint to lick from said gastly 81% of the time truly a huge differnce
i often face choice band lick gastly in ubers, real metagame threat
I actually lost a ubers tournament to a choice band gastly lick.since then I always use Deoxys normal instead of deoxys attack
Can someone explain to me what the deal is with choice band gastly is against deoxys? I'm not that well informed but would like to know 😅
@@rayannarayanan9101 It's just an example of a really weak attack that Deoxys N barely survives that will likely kill Deoxys A, as a way to mockingly point out how little Deo N's extra bulk really matters (especially in ubers where everything will tear them apart all the same).
Smogon tried to use Deoxys-N "bulk" both in X/Y and S/M with two specific sets (Chilan Berry with Counter as "Normal Arceus "check"" for the former and Kasib Berry as "Marshadow lure" for the latter).
They are still a "trying to give it something to do" sets that must not take too much damage before (or they will fail the single thing they should do).
Interestingly, the Solgaleo x Dusk Mane dynamic is completely flipped in VGC. Turns out when Intimidate and Max Move stat drops can be ignored completely, and you can set up Trick Room with a great defensive typing, there’s a lot of value.
Also you can easily set up Weakness Policy
@@ragnaricstudios5888Could’ve also added Zamazenta.
Same with Zamazenta-Crowned, getting Body Press in gen 9 gave it new life in VGC, where it actually outclasses Zacian in that format and has had a lot of great tournament success in restricted formats.
I'm shocked solgaleo is considered worse than dawn wing necrozma, psychic ghost typing with 77 speed is abysmal
@@phantom0568 Necrozma-DW is also pretty terrible. It used to be outclassed by Lunala but now Lunala is also bad.
wait this isn’t my uber
Sorry we had to cancel your Uber as there are no available drivers in your area. Please try again later.
Arceus and Koraidon do make pretty good drivers tbh
“I am the Übermensch!”
“I am charged!”
“Auf Wiedersehen!”
-medic tf2
@@SeriousStriker Miraidon is one of the best uber drivers out there, but was unfortunately fired due to driving under the influence one time.
The current best Uber driver, Koraidon, is on its way
Zamazenta in singles vs doubles is literally the buff and sad doge meme and i need someone to draw it with him.
Honorable mention for Darkrai, who while initially was terrifying, had to pay the price for Smeargle's war crimes in later gens.
That’s something I will never understand. Smeargle was the problem and simply making Dark Void exclusive to Darkrai would have solved the issue since mythicals arent allowed in vgc
Dark Void was a problem beyond vgc and battle simulatpra. It was a nerf to the move itself because it was too toxic in online battles where there's no "sleep cause" or 50 different regulations that metalords are too comfortable being in that they forget how the base game online battles work.
I was doing online battles in Pokémon X version. Those Darkrai giveaways during gen 6 turned every online battle into Dark Void a whole team as they slowly die to Bad Dreams. That is why in the next generation they slashed it's accuracy. If Darkrai wasn't made so freely available, you wouldn't be getting Dark Void Smeargle because of how rare it would be without hacking in the move.
I'm tired of people outing themselves as only being smogon-exclusive battlers, while complaining about a change made for the better health of the pokemon video game online battle experiences.
@@D-Havoc There's a really easy solution to this lol.
Ban Mythicals from online ranked play.
Unranked play/for fun formats do as you please.
@@JakeSPuwuowo69No reason to prevent the player from bringing whatever Pokemon they want into battle. Gutting Dark Void was the correct move there.
@@Gaiou0331 And in doing so, Darkrai no longer sees any battle at all whatsoever because of what Smeargle did.
If you're wondering how all of these hold up in Ubers UU, here's a rundown
Deoxys is one of the best offensive pokemon in Ubers UU in general, since it's ridiculous stat line make it have virtually no switch Ins outside of Magearna. It's tough to get in the field but considering there's a ton of good pivot users, it's not that tough and it always delivers in offensive teams.
Solgaleo is sadly not that good either. It used to be a lot better but it has very little things over Magearna. It's very passive and can't really make progress into a lot of Arceus forms. It's been falling off considerably and it still has issues into Landorus-I.
Reshiram is definitely niche but underrated in the tier. It serves as a bulky attacker who's offensive typing let's it threaten most of the top defensive walls, with it's only good 'check' being Arceus (who's scared of a burn). It's biggest issues is a lack of reliable recovery of any kind alongside its own accuracy and lack of PP on Blue flare (which means it can often run out of PP due to the amount of pressure mons in the tier). It isn't as outclassed by Kyurem white as you might originally think because Kyurem white Is a Choice specs blizzard spammer in the tier, and it's terrible defensive typing means it's bad as a bulky attacker
Arceus bug is one of the Arceus forms of all time. It has a niche, definitely. As it is good into Landorus-I, but at the same time it's rocks weak and an Arceus form. Not that good, not unusable but definitely one of the worst Arceus forms.
Zamazenta is overall the most 'pretty solid' and 'average' pokemon in the tier overall. You always know what it's going to do, you always know it gets walled by the same pokemon, it doesn't really matter because it is really good at what it does, which is to stop offensive teams and Arceus forms like Dark. Not much to say, just pretty solid.
Just the fact there are sub-Uber tiers is just crazy to me
Honestly I'm happy Deo-N finally has a place to shine. Poor guy has been overshadowed by Deo-A since Gen 3, it's nice to finally see Deo-N have something going for him.
Same for me
"reshirampardos theorem" was diabolical
Lugia literally has not been a good Ubers Pokemon since the Obama administration
he got that Multiscale brah my goat still not washed
Yup, I immediately thought of Lugia. An iconic box legendary that had a strong start as "The Wall" but became irrelevant since. Not even UUbers saves it.
Lugia got screwed over by the old concept that Psychic is the "legendary" type, in the same gen where GameFreak nerfed it into the ground.
My first thought was mew. Mew left Uber when gbw invaded Iraq lol
@@alexsieh3089 Which is sad cuz the Dragon type was right there for it
Maybe a fun video would be "lower tier mons with niches in ubers"
Ariados and Froslass in gen 4 Ubers 🔥🔥
Quaaaaag
Golduck...
Dascbun
wynaut
Behemoth bash should’ve been steel type body press
I would rather they instead of making a damaging move for a defensive pokemon, made a signature move that's Follow Me and Protect in 1 move
That, and Zamazenta needs Recover.
Also undo the nerfs, give Zacian +20 SpA and then give Zamazenta +10 Def and +10 Atk or SpD.
Even so, it wouldn't be a good wall because GF decided it needed to have base 92 HP, so bulk efficiency is down the toilet.
@@alexsieh3089They should have nerfed Zacian by moving its reduced attack points to sp.atk so that Zama isn't affected. But alas they made Zama collateral in an attempt to nerf his sister.
@@alexsieh3089 I wouldn’t say it needs that move. Surely didn’t need it to overcome Zacian in VGC despite the nerds, and I think it’s a fine disadvantage to have in a vacuum.
Since they're clearly trying to make Zamazenta defensive but built to deal Damage, making Behemoth Bash work like body press should be a must, even more now that Dynamax doesn't exist anymore.
I still wonder how much better (or worse?) Deoxys-Normal would be competitively if it actually had more "balanced" stats like if it had 110 in all other stats, except HP which would have to be 50 like all other forms. At the very least it would make more sense if Deoxys-N was actually more of an all-rounder stat wise instead of basically being a lesser Deoxys-A.
Remember that Mew, a mono-Psychic with 100 in all stats, is NUBL. 50 HP with 110 in all other stats is still not particularly good bulk (much worse than Mew's), and not a particularly good speed tier either. It would probably end up in OU, or maybe even UU, as a utility mon that can hit hard, since it has a ridiculously powerful STAB in Psycho Boost.
Mespirit 2: electric boogaloo
It never made any sense to me that Deo-N is just Deo-A lite. I don't know how much better it would be with balanced stats but at least it would be distinct.
"Being bulkier than the least bulky Pokemon in the game should not be mistaken for being able to take hits."
(from "usage tips" of Deoxys-N only S/M set on Smogon, a Kasib berry "Marshadow lure". It was so desperate.)
Seeing Ho-oh mentioned in this video, it would be interesting to see a kind of inverse of this video. Something like "Ubers Pokemon that have not fallen off". Looking at what makes mainstays in Ubers actually work despite generational powercreep would be nice.
@@dradicnova4628 ho oh and Kyogre are the oldest relevant top tier ubers left
Kyogre nukes everything because it sets up a weather that actually helps its STAB and Ho-Oh can wear some boots and absolutely negate the thing that halved its HP on the switch, they know how to handle powercreep
@@indiradevi8136 wat abt groudon/rayquaza?
@@lolidemon3163 Don fell of this gen a lot and Ray has been mid tbh like not bad but u could certainly use other better options like Koraidon. Not terrible but certainly not top 5 material like ho oh and Kyogre
Very surprised Altered Forme Giratina wasn't mentioned given it was outclassed by Origin Forme within 2 years of existing and never did anything again
>Ubers stall
@@jmcbangosomething goes wrong in your life if you decide to play a stall team in Ubers
It was still really good in its first two gens, and afterwards had some time as a cornerstone of Ubers stall. It’s definitely lackluster, but way better than anything on this list.
@@LordBeau stall is good in every iteration of ubers... Usually fuelled by ho oh and alomomola these days tho. Not altered Giratina. It was great old days tho
@ ok but why would you decide to play stall in Ubers when you can have fun instead
I like how he just changes his language the moment he starts talking about Arceus lmao
Yeah!
Funny how Ho-Oh got everything it could ever want with regenerator and boots
I love Reshiram, knowing that it is quite bad competitively hurts
I don’t love it but I’m equally as hurt
It goes beyond quite bad. They made an ubers UU tier specifically so lesser used ubers could actually get to play, but reshiram is bad in ubers UU too, so they made an ubers RU specifically to give Reshiram something to do, and Reshiram is now outclassed in ubers RU
Dialga-Origin is far and away one of the worst Ubers, if it existed for more generations and was more known out there it would've 100% been on this list.
It's strictly inferior to base Dialga in every way
Although Dialga is a special attacker that rarely, if ever, uses its Attack, swapping its Attack and Special Defense is such a huge slap on the face especially considering that Origin Dialga can’t have Leftovers. Origin Palkia gets the better end of the stick because the Attack and Speed switch puts it at a better Speed tier to use its wide offensive movepool better.
@chaosgallade2331 yeah not to mention Dialga can just run Assault Vest to get that special bulk if it wants to, so it's really only good for stealth rock sets. It's a shame honestly
Its also very ugly
@pezyg I’m tired of people saying this.
I don’t care if it’s ugly.
the existence of Uber Pokemon implies the existence of Lyft Digimon
Mewtwo needs new abilities
Reshiram is sadly outclassed by both Koraidon and Gouging Fire that it's sad. Heck it's not even used in UUBERS. That's how sad it's life is
Mewtwo getting Unnerve just for Caly S to come out faster and stronger, with added ghost type, and unnerve + special Moxie because it needed it is so funny lmao
I feel like neuroforce is basically made Mewtwo
@@pezyg And a busted spread move.
Agreed Mewtwo needs new abilities. Mewtwo's Psystrike should also be buffed with the change affect of hitting whichever defense is lower.
I'm surprised Lugia wasn't mentioned here since it basically got nerfed in Gen 9 with the loss of Thunder Wave and Toxic as well as the Recover PP nerf
What a stealth rock weakness does to a mf:
Sneaky pebbles are stronger in Ubers because it's very easy to blow up a rapid spinner or defogger considering all the 150+ base attack Pokemon in the tier.
I can tell you commented before watching the video
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 Right? When the last mon on the list resists rock by 4x lol
And then there's Ho-Oh who's been having a good ol time in Ubers despite taking 4x from rocks.
@@sreenaths6829 well its got regenerator and heavy duty boots now
Deo-N, Zama-C, and all Arceus forms should 100% stay Uber, but I honestly believe Reshi and Sol should be tested in OU. There are multiple non-Ubers that are better Pokémon than them - Lando-T, Gliscor, and the Geeta Duo (Glimmora and Kingambit) immediately come to mind. Sol would be interesting in particular; it would essentially fill the niche that Metagross used to fill before power creep pushed it out.
Also add to the fact that Zamazenta didn't get Body Press until the next generation, which really hurt it.
lol the entire talking of Deoxys was just hilarious to follow along with lol
0:01 STILL waiting for “How Good Was Amoonguss Actually…”
The sus pokemon
AMONGUS
I'm not sure. Thats sus
They banned spore😢
Recover and making Behemonth Bash use defense instead of Attack would fix Zamazenta
1:51 someone has never cooked with thyme (supposed to be pronounced time) before
Glad I didn’t skip the ad this time so I could catch that gem
Maybe he didn't have enough thyme to look up the pronunciation
1:12 back of the head reveal
this is random but the way you narrate is extremely gratifying. how much care you put into your script is evident. the diction, the syntax…. it’s almost musical the way syllables line up. you’re great at what you do!
Hot take lugia probably should have been on the list over reshiram for how awful it has been in recent gens. Reshiram at least has the luxury of being super outclassed rather than just sucking in its own right in ubers uu
Actually Lugia is rising up in UUBERS while Reshiram doesn't really get any usage.
Yeah Lugia needs buffs
Once Lugia lost Toxic this gen, it was all over. Before then, it was still a fairly good wall.
I disagree. I honestly think Reshiram should've been #1, I think historically it's worse then Zamazenta-Crowned. It was bad even before Kyurem-White appeared and always has been bad since.
Wtf are ypu talking about. Reshiram was a monster in B/W era with Sun Booster specs Blue Flares. Not many things could take that. Zekrom was way worse
@@mandalorianhunter1 Like swapping its HP stats to being its SP atk stat.
I'm still mad Deoxys Normal doesn't have 100 Stats across the board. I know that's the pixie gimmick but still
Its health would probably still be stuck at 50 to match the rest but 110 across the board with 50 hp would have been interesting
Mewtwo on the thumbnail scared me
It would've went against all laws of mewtwo
Ngl. I'd love an episode called "The Nat Dex Effect," examining Pokemon only good in NatDex but not standard play and Pokemon good in standard play but garbage in NatDex.
19:00 I just realized that I've never seen behemeth bash's animation before lmaooooooo
The current Gen 9 meta would be one of the better times for testing Solgaleo, with Darkrai and Kyurem both settled, if anyone cared enough to.
Honestly I think Solgaleo would be interesting
- It lacks sword's dance/dragon's dance and only has calm mind and cosmic power as a set up move, meaning that the best its going do is maybe a late cleaner calm mind set
- Offensively it actually has some really good options in sunsteel strike, psy fangs, close combat knock, flare blitz, earthquake, psychic (For zama), and has a great bulk and okay speed for an offensive threat.
- Defensively it has a lot up good things going for it but being weak to gambit and ghost, along with darkari, tusk, moltres giving it grief could really hold it back
But I think it honestly get a good amount of usage as a trick room setter, trick room/teleport on a mon with stats like Solageo that can get it off multiple times, and is pretty strong.
My hot take is that IMO, Necrozma Dawn-Wings should be there instead of Solgaleo, mainly due to species clause which you can only bring one Pokemon of species, and also cause its Dusk Mane form its better than Dawn Wings one.
deeply unfortunate that Reshiram is so unremarkable in Ubers post-2011 than yall didn’t even remember to use the correct version of its theme 😔
@@Hunter_6430 How can you tell it’s incorrect?
@@skeetermania3202KW, KB, and Zekrom have slight differences based on effects
@@skeetermania3202 in BW Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem all had functionally the same theme but with distinct thematic differences for facing each of them. The former two had sfx matching their types while Kyurem got a kickass baseline but sounded otherwise emptier throughout.
In ORAS and Ultra SM, Zekrom’s variant was the theme used for all three of their encounters, possibly due in part to White being the original base build of Gen V, but the unique renditions make a return in SV.
Poor Reshiram.. Regardless of it's flaws. I still love this Pokemon.
The reason why Deoxys-normal falls short compared to Deoxys-attack can be broken down to a single reason: You don't need to worry about tanking hits if your opponent is already dead.
Honestly there might be a match for the worst arceus form with arceus psychic.
Psychic offensively isnt great and bug at least has the ground resist.
I haven't clicked that fast in a long time, love discussions on Ubers
Deoxys base forms stats should be:
50 HP
110 all the rests
Its actual stats doesn’t make any sense, maybe they created it without the other forms in mind
Hmm yes, turn it from a worse deoxys attack into a worse arceus physic or a slightly faster and stronger but much more frail mew.
@Placeholder-nc8yt Better be a worse Mew than a worse Deoxys that is banned from OU but useless in Uber
@ Uh yeah, it's useless in Ubers because it's a worse deoxys attack, likewise, this one would be useless in UU because it's a worse mew.
@@Placeholder-nc8yt Not really. Deoxys-N with those stats would be _far_ more offensively adept than Mew, especially when it comes to wallbreaking. Mew doesn't pack a base 140 power STAB move, after all. Deoxys does.
Id absolutely mention Dawn Wings being a worse Lunala which is already kinda mid but also preventing you from using Dusk Mane meaning youre just shooting yourself in the foot by using it
Reshiram is still one of the coolest legends in my heart.
Kyurem-Black was so bad, it managed to dodge this video.
Before I watch the video, ima say Lugia is one of them.
Edit: nope, he wasn’t on this list, they should make another one that has Lugia on it
Lugia was a dominant defensive mon until like gen 8 (I think)
@@gratedshtick Sure, but power creep has made Lugia worse over the years and made it a weak Ubers mon over time, he’s definitely not as good as he was in the older games, but I can see if he doesn’t count as one
@@Kirbyfan86_27 yeah, that's what I was getting at.
@@gratedshtick Ah cool, and I think they’ll put Lugia in the next video, but we’ll have to see
@@gratedshticklugia was pretty awful in ORAS and SM as well, mainly because in ORAS it needed 5 moves to not get trapped by gengar and was basically free momentum for darkrai to sleep something and in USUM it was free entry for ndm and got blasted by lunala, marshadow and basically every other viable offensive threat with rocks up. Granted SM easily has the best removal out of any Ubers tier, but it's still not easy to use this mon in a tier with Z move abusers that absolutely clocked it. Lugia quite literally hasnt been good since the Obama administration, which is kinda funny and kinda sad.
the arceus bug segment starts off by stating that mono bug is not a bad type and then goes to prove by many examples as to why mono bug is a bad type
It is a bad type offensively and decent-ish defensively
In Gen 3 Ubers, Deoxys N’s bulk over Deoxys Attack does come into play as with some bulk investment it can survive Pursuit from some foes
Slight addendum: While Deo-A does indeed gain power with its loss in bulk, it does not gain any speed. So Deo-A and Deo-N tie in speed. Obviously Deo-N is still the far worse minmaxer, but, uh, at least it looks more stylish in my opinion...?
Video Idea: Ranking all major trio of legendaries were the most balanced between each other. (lumping Mewtwo with Ho-oh/Lugia and Terapagos with Miraidon/Koraidon)
This can also be done with Starters and Sub-legendaries too.
The fact Zamazenta was nerfed in Gen 9 is proof that someone at GameFreak particularly hated it.
Why doesn't it learn King's Shield by the way?
You say that as if it doesn't also outclass Zacian in the primary competitive format in Gen 9
Because even if Zamazenta could screw up your Physical Attacker chance at beating him, he still does nothing when he gets on the field. What is he gonna do, Body Press? Just switch Lunala and wear him down, Zamazenta has zero recovery and doesn't do anything after he switches out because of his OneTime Ability
@@MakoShiruba IronPress is pretty mean, though.
Another issue about Reshiram is that it just doesn't have the coverage such a nuke needs. It can drop a Draco and Blue Flare. That's about it. Even resisted, those moves are as strong as it's neutral non-stab options, especially since even a resisted Sun-boosted Blue Flare is still stronger than any coverage. While Kyurem White is stuck with Fusion Flare instead of Blue Flare and doesn't have stab with it, it gets Ice stab. KW having higher special attack means that its coverage deals more and helps compensate a bit for the loss of Blue Flare. And because of the increased stats, its Dracos are much more threatening. And it doesn't have that crippling EQ weakness. And then there's the fact that KW is faster at 95 base. Those 5 points in speed do matter, as it doesn't speed tie with a bunch of other Ubers. 90 base speed just isn't impressive anymore. If it doesn't want to be shut down by Fluttermane and other faster threats, Resh needs to be Scarfed. Thankfully, Blue Flare is still a nuke that nothing short of a bulky resist or Kyogre are willing to come in on.
15:40 was that a reference to the pokemon anime ⁉⁉⁉⁉⁉⁉
Should have called them “Uborderline”
Video starts 2:49
Their ads have been almost 5 minutes wtf man
@@janswhatsupdocnot really. Starting 1=1:30 minutes is just him explaining and also there are time stamps you could just skip
12:56 "Reshirampardos theorum"
gengarchomp moment
Additional honourable mention, Kyurem-Black pre gen 8, not even being good enough to stay in Ubers
Ayo don’t dis my boi Reshiram
I'm surprised that Dialga wasn't mentioned. Both of its forms are garbage, with the Origin Form being an unmitigated disaster.
Dialga-Origin is so bad that in UUbers, the tier made for awful legendaries, it's UNRANKED, together with Baxcalibur in the D(o not use) tier.
Volcarona, Archaludon, and Ogerpon-Wellsrping are considered stronger Pokemon in the metagame.
And even in RUbers, where everything stronger than Espathra and Kyurem-White are banned, Dialga-Origin is considered bottom tier, in the same ranking tier as Dugtrio and base Kyurem.
Dialga's normal form is also weak, it used to be one of the faces of UUbers, but now it's C+ on the viability rankings. But at least it's viable in RUbers.
If you tested Dialga-Origin for OU, I wouldn't be surprised if it managed to underperform despite having 150 SpA with its STABs boosted 1.2x by its item. Even Zamazenta-Crowned is more useful than it.
Dialga had a great start, being one of the best mons in Gen 4 ubers and stayed strong in gens 5 and 6, but it was in gen 7 where it started to fall off a cliff
Both Zamazenta forms need access to Toxic and Recover to better perform as stall pokemon. Also, Dauntless Shield isn't overpowered if it activates every time it hits the field, so they should test if it should be returned to it's original use.
I feel like it should but if it does then intrepid sword should as well for consistency. Zacian probably won’t be broken with it plus the base stat nerf now.
I definitely think zamazenta should get better recovery than… rest.
Returning Dauntless Shield to its old self would almost certainly get base Zamazenta kicked out of OU again. It _barely_ avoided a banhammer with the _nerfed_ Dauntless Shield.
I'll never understand the stat spread of Deoxys Normal, might be better suited to serve as a form like Terapagos's normal form to fit with the whole shapeshifting alien theme. Its a crime Deoxys Defense doesn't have access to Body Press just like it was that Zamazenta didn't in it's debut, these are Pokemon designed around the Defense stat.
"Reshirampardos Theorem" jolly good show, chaps
A lot of these examples also fall victim to opportunity cost - not only are you not using a better pokemon, but you're also outright *prevented* from using certain better pokemon (Deoxys forms, other Arceus forms, etc)
Could be a theorem in itself. A lot of "forms" like the Rotoms have completely different roles, but the rule all the way from Stadium was that you couldnt use pokemon with the same number on the same team.
Ironically, this means that pokemon that are extremely similar like Blissey and Chansey can be used together, while pokemon as different as Kantonian and Galarian Zapdos can't.
We call this the Species Clause Curse
I gotta be that guy who says technically Full Metal Body is better than Clear Body as it can't be ignored by moves/abilities
Excellent thumbnail as always, love the artist
While Zamazenta-Crowned definitely deserves to be on the list, I would argue that it should be a little higher (at least above Reshiram).
This is because the mon actually does have a legitimate niche in Gen 8 Ubers as a defensive anti-meta mon. Its typing, combined with its static held item, means that it is the best Knock Off and Trick absorber in the game, which is really nice in a tier defined by Yveltal. It can check pretty much all variants of Yveltal, defensive sets of certain mons (like Ho-oh, Necrozma-DM, Eternatus, and Lunala), and pretty much all Ice-types. This niche was especially popular back when Weavile was trending up in usage in Ubers.
That being said, this is merely a niche, as its limited movepool and lack of reliable recovery means that it struggles into some of the more offensive variants of the aforementioned mons (Ho-oh, Necrozma-DM, Recover variants of offensive Eternatus, etc.) and it is outclassed in its roles in some areas by Necrozma-DM. It ended up being C+ rank in VR, so a slight niche, but it is still leagues better than some of the other box art legends in Gen 8 (Dialga, Reshiram, Kyurem forms, Lugia, Solgaleo, Necrozma-DW, Zamazenta-Hero).
Zama-C does struggle a bit more in Gen 9 to find a legitimate niche, especially in Koraidon land, as it is C rank in that meta's VR (do note that the VR has not yet updated from Miraidon's recent ban, but I doubt it would change its viability that much), but it is still higher than some other box art legends (it is in the same rank as Lunala, Zekrom, and Mewtwo funnily enough).
Zam-C is definitely the best mon on this list
I've never understood the stats of Deoxys-N. It's dumb to make it a D-A lite.
15:40 I Understood that reference 😂😂
Man, I saw Mewtwo on the thumbnail and it had me like. "Oh no! Not my boy!" Had me watching the whole video ready to go into denial. Had my heart beating faster and faster as it got closer and closer to that No. 1 spot. I tip my hat to you FSG. You got me.
Love the vibe of this format.
I would love a video on like, a general overview of the Uber tier, maybe across the generations (which pokemon / strategies were dominating, who rose up, who fell off etc.) It seems like such an interesting tier, but I know next to nothing about it. Like, my knowledge runs out at "Mewtwo in gen 1" and "Groudon/Kyogre in and after gen 3"
Shocked base Giratina wasnt even mentioned
It has the stall teams niche
Actually Solgaleo is a great Pokemon in it's own right.
It actually has higher effective Bulk AND Speed than NDM and also some unique moves that NDM doesn't have like Close Combat, Flare Blitz, Teleport etc.
The issue is that NDM's ability is truly superb that makes it feel MUCH bulkier than Solgaleo in practise. Also that Attack boost is significant.
The thing that truly holds Solgaleo back the fact that his movepool is quite sad. He gets no utility/setup moves like TWave, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, Stealth Rock, Photon Geyser, etc. This leaves any utilty role out of the question for Solgaleo and he is stuck trying to try all put offensive sets with his lowish attack stat by Ubers standards or just a Bulky Teleport pivot which has been used at different points in Ubers.
If Solgaleo and NDM shared a movepool, NDM would still be better because his ability is busted but I could see a genuine case for taking Solgaleo's Speed advantage sometimes over NDM.
I feel that saying NDM is Mega Solgaleo is really unfair because the maximum difference in viability comes by movepool and Solgaleo has quite a good Stat spread too if it had utility/setup moves to utilize his Bulk/Speed.
we love deoxys, but not the base form
That factor food looked like absolute filth
So basically, this video is just Ubers that are outclassed by a better form of themselves
Testing Arceus-Bug in OU is even dumber right now, where every Arceus can transform into an extreme killer with terra
I wonder. New lower tiers of previous generations started appearing like gen 1 PU. Do you think we might possibly see those metagames covered at some point?
I'm surprised dawn wings wasn't mentioned
I expected dawn wings, lugia, or glasterier to be an honorable mention.
Glastrier isn't included because it is not a box cover legend; it is a basic 580 BST non-restricted legendary.
@@the_bookworm8281spectrier shouldn't have been included too even as an honourable mention.
@@sreenaths6829 To be honest, I completely forgot that FSG included Spectrier in the video, and it probably shouldn't.
I've been waiting for a video like this
Deoxys-N really does need like, 110 across the board so that it can truly be the neutral/balanced form-- stronger and bulkier than Speed, faster than Defense, way sturdier than Attack, right in the middle of them all
1:51 thighyme LMAO
Perhaps the next theorem video could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Dragonite theorem
I'd put Arceus Bug AND Arceus Ice in 2nd Place because they are basically polar opposites of each other when taking into account the pros and cons of the two Types when you're not taking into account any immunities that one Type may have over the other (in terms of the number of Weaknesses and how common and easy to use or avoid the Weaknesses are in Battle, in Bug is better Defensively but worse Offensively compared to Ice while Ice is better Offensively compared but worse Defensively compared to Bug, vice versa)
At some point you will have to tell us who is the greatest OU Pokémon of all time. You're the only channel who can accomplish this task. Establishing the right criteria is totally up to you.
It would be hard considering how much the meta changes...I mean, even the greatest of the early mons have fallen to power creep. You'd have to have a like top 3 OU mons of all time (depending the gen)
Tyranitar
@@AS34N it's hard, for sure, but they can do it. The secret could be to single out the obvious candidates and then a create score system using some sensible metrics (e.g. longevity, peak performance, dominance etc.). Mons from earlier gen could be at AN advantage but they should honestly, the answer should reflect the history so far.
@@SeriousStriker😂
of all time?
Tyranitar.
I did really well with specs mewtwo in BH, had to completely break the meta to do it, but super fun and a key piece to HO imo.
Yeah, the one thing I never got about Deoxys N is why it's stats are so similar to A, it really should have had an almost even stat spread imo, would have been more thematic.
I have very fond memories of gen 7 Ubers
Z-splash Solgaleo lead to some hilarious sweeps occasionally
This isn't especially related to the video topic, but I think "glower" (pronounced like sour or tower) would be a great name for a special-attack intimidate
Sunsteel Strike should have a chance to burn. Poor Nebby 😢
Sometimes I wonder if there was ever a chance that Behemoth Bash was supposed to use Zamazenta’s defense stat when attacking along with it not being nerfed alongside Zacian
Watching all those quad resisted kyogre attacks on reshiram is unbelievably funny, what a pokemon
Reshiram would be way better if it had Reshiram Beam
Zekrom will be a lot better if it had Zekrom Kick
Can we talk about the fact that FSG pronounced the H in "thyme"?
Arceus-Poison is actually one of most used Pokémon in Ubers UU, specifically due to its utility as a Zacian counter.
Two concepts I had as passing thoughts:
1. This is when you mentioned Calyrex Shadowrider form: more intentional mechanics by Gamefreak, Pokémon that are only really good when they can combine. Aka the Kyurem White Theorem.
Effectively, I'd say it should cover Pokémon that get form changes by a "Fusion" or "Forced Item" and how, like with Zacian it made it really good in Gen 8, but that due to the nerfs in Gen 9 it's just not s good legendary or how Zamazenta would really like Recover/Slack Off instead of Rest for recovery options (or to just not have to hold the Rusty Shield so it can use any other item) or how Necrozma Dusk Mane is the only real way to use Solgaleo because of how poorly the designed a freakin' box art! Additionally, Calyex Riders for both Calyex AND its steeds since, oh right, it's not very good by itself and neither horse is great (fast-ish, frail, special attacker or slow, bulky physical attack with perhaps the worst defensive typing in the game, ice), point is, if you can find enough examples of Pokémon that have to use an item, fuse, or otherwise take a negative for it to be a bigger positive than without fusing or specific items (something that Gen 8 did a lot for those legendaries), I'd love to see that deep dive. Deoxys Normal might qualify as you have to change from the base form to a different form and that Rotom got a lot better as the appliance forms, especially after Gen 4 when they picked up their secondary typing depending on the appliance. Not sure if you'd qualify those, but I'd definitely put Super? Mega? I forget the name, but the evolved Necrozma form that turns into a freaking dragon. Without Z-moves, the form can't be used, and until Megas come back in full, well, a multitude of Pokémon are untiered due to power creep, though, at this point the games are a lot healthier for Mega Pokémon. It'd be useful for Mega-evolution to also be a beginning of the turn effect like Tera-types. Oh, and also, Terapagos will be severely nerfed when or if Tera goes away. Meaning it'll just be a turtle with a fancy looking shell.
2nd thing you got me thinking about was related to how some Uber tier singles in name only are much better when released into Doubles format, as an example, when Zamazenta came into Gen 9 doubles, despite all the nerfs it got a buff with Body Press... but that was a Wolfey video (specifically Zamazenta), but I'm sure you can find other examples of bad Ubers that have, at some point, thrived in the official VGC format.