THE BLIND SHAFT TEST: Hard Vs Soft Stepping
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Today, Mikey takes Ian through a blind test to see if hard stepping and soft stepping is truly a way of altering your ball flight characteristics. Do any combos increase or decrease height, spin and general performance?
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Filmed at: Tour Experience Golf
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This one has that classic, golden age TXG feel. Love it.
Thank you Keven!! One for the technical archive that's for sure.
This was great, guys. I have recently been custom fitted for some new irons by a well renowned custom fitter here in the UK, after a couple of years away from the game. I was a 5 handicap and my swing speed is 97mph with my 7 iron - for which most manufacturers would recommend a heavier X-Stiff shaft. Having spent time hitting a variety of shafts during the session, the most important factor for me was the shaft weight, as it greatly influenced my timing and overall feel. The data also backed this up, with better spin, and descent angles. Ended up with KBS Tour 120 hard stepped x1.
I love Ian’s scientific approach to golf equipment! Much appreciated guys.
Thanks Zac!!
I agree, though I kinda wish they double or triple stepped the clubs in either direction and Ian didn’t look at the club so long right before hitting it…. And maybe flipping between them one shot at a time per shaft would be ideal so you even out the warm up versus shaft differences.
But I’m splitting hairs. And I worked in R&D for years.
Frankly the numbers are close enough doing the video again in a different way feels like a waste of time.
I think this video fairly well sets the stepping discussion to rest. It might be a feel difference, and perhaps that makes your swing more or less consistent… but meh. A different shaft, a different ball, or putting a different swing on it ultimately is the only way to really change things.
Maybe it's just me but the soft step, even though the numbers are the same, appeared like you hit them with less effort and more confidence. But that measurement hasn't been invented yet in launch monitors lol
You are absolutely right Adrian. There was a distinct difference in swinging each shaft even though the numbers make it look very similar. I just loved that the outcome was the same launch and spin, that's exactly what I've always seen in testing.
It's a slight difference in weight and CPM. Enough that some players will notice feel-wise & prefer it, but there's no quantifiable difference in performance. Soft stepping twice is more noticeable. Once is VERY subtle.
Great video and highly educational. Enjoy these types of sessions where you take a premise and prove/disprove it with data. My main takeaway from this is that the differences between the builds is statistically insignificant but feel (and the quest for it) is a beast with an unquenchable thirst.
I threw the kbs $ taper 130 x with a hard step into my irons and I love the feel now. Just feels better timing wise
cool bro.
Great test guys…I’d be interested in knowing how flex would work for a player with a driver swing speed between 100 and 105 MPH. Stiff vs regular in the irons would be of interest to me. Thanks for all you do!
My range, too. Would make for an interesting test.
I was fitted using the Mizuno golf system and it did recommend 2 stiff flex shafts soft stepped which was interesting. I did go with the recommendation and it was a very good fit. There are definitely varying opinions on stepping out there, I think it’s obviously player specific. Wether the gain is in actual performance or even a mental gain either way a gain is a gain and we should take whatever we can get in this game lol
It appears you hit the soft step shaft with more confidence, and your dispersion was much tighter.
I definitely liked that feel the most.
Awesome video, I've done these tests to my own set to get the right "feel".
No real changes in outcome for ball flight at all.
Started buying a sleeve of different balls each Saturday to try out and that is truly eye opening😮
Currently enjoying the Srixon Z Star XV the most by a country mile
I appreciate hearing about the importance of golf ball selection! After playing for over twenty years, I'm just now starting to test different balls to see how they perform for my swing
I gotta say, Ian and Mikey together on the channel are a really good combo. Chemistry is there and knowledge is solid between the two. Think this is an awesome long term recipe
Thanks Matt, we definitely enjoy filming together for the channel.
This was great. Very informative an unbiased. The right feel inspires confidence I think so you'd just go with the one that feels the best.
Thank you!!
So, how do you rationalize the differences in dispersion? I get the sample variability as part of the exercise, but soft step seemed to provide a much tighter dispersion than hard step and still marginally better than standard. Most of your discussion was on averages, but for some reason you chose to mostly disregard variances - was this by choice?
I wouldn't be surprised if Ian has soft stepped his whole set by now. 😆
@@3rdgroove I wouldn’t be surprised either 🤣
Feel affects delivery and creates more consistent timing. If a player can match the cadence of the golf swing to the load of the shaft results will likely much more consistent. I've said many times, a change in shaft flex is more likely to affect lateral dispersion than vertical dispersion.
@@clubchampionmedia got it. So, hard or soft stepping a shaft can make a difference (in the same way that shaft flex) can make a difference? I’m asking, because this was not the main message from the video (which was very good, BTW).
@@dabdias Sorry Daniel, I'm sure I understand that question. Can you re-read it and check if that was your intended question.
Best content ive seen from you guys by far. Fav video if all time
I would love to see you test the difference taking all same weight shafts..i.e. C-Taper 120, Tour 120, $-Taper 120 to see how they vary against each other.
No surprise to see a few of Ian and Mikey's Open picks atop the leaderboard. Tommy Fleetwood, Min Woo Lee. One surprise I see is Shubhankar Sharma... How big would an Open win be for India??
Pulling hard for Tommy but a win for Shubhankar Sharma would be massive for the growth of the game in India.
Great video lads !!! Love the info
Thanks Josh
I like this kind of content. I would like to see a shaft length comparison with driver and fairways.
Great expose guys. Golf Myth Busters? Bring it on! 👌
I've been testing shafts myself, to find something to replace my way-to-heavy S300s. Today I built an NSPro 105 R version to compare to the NSPro 105 S I've been leaning toward. Swing speed has been dropping so I thought an R flex might work better. I enjoyed feeling the shaft load a bit more but didn't like the slightly lighter shaft. I know it is only a few grams difference but it feels like a lot. The 105S must be at the limit of how light I can comfortably go. And after hitting 25 shots with each, the data reflects what you found. With the same head there was virtually no difference in ball speed, spin, launch, height or carry.
It would be interesting on graphite shafts, I find a stronger variance with graphite shafts.
Enjoyed this one. I’ve played PX6.5 soft stepped in a set of MP18SC and now P7MC. For me its 100% a feel thing. I like the 125g weight of the 6.5 for my timing but PX straight in just feels a bit too stout.
Good video
Question on another topic
Looking at combo set of Sirxon zx 5 and zx 7. Should I be concerned about loft adjustment for gaping issues
Definitely arrange a gapping session once you have the new irons to dial in your yardages.
I have Dynamic Gold x7 hard stepped. My swing speed with an 8 iron is around 110-112mph. Flightscope and GCQuad.
Great test, information, and interesting results. I would like to see a comparison between different shafts of the same flex that are supposed to promote different ball flights using the same head. I wouldn’t care if they were a combination of graphite or steel or all the same material. Thanks again.
I just went through a round of shaft fitting with my local club builder and the results align with yours. I had a much larger variation in shafts comparing KBS C-Taper Lite, Project X LZ 6.0 soft stepped, and Project X LZ 5.5 hard stepped. Distance mapped pretty much the same between these with similar strikes. Lateral dispersion was a very different story. Here I think the weight of the shaft and perceived loading made a big difference. The lighter weight shafts all felt stiffer to me than the heavier PX-LZ 6.0 and the heavier shaft matched better to my swing tempo. The lightest shaft in the bunch I just couldn't hit consistently straight. I was wondering if the soft vs hard step was going to make much of a difference in ball flight. Thanks for answering that for me with this video. It does seem to make a little bit of difference in feel to me but good to know that if I'm getting along withe PX LZ shafts then I shouldn't worry about stepping them in my next iron set.
I have MMT TX 125 Soft stepped in all my irons and they feel fantastic and perform great
Thanks for the interesting vid. Question! You have a very consistent tempo. Will shaft tipping make more of a variance on golfer that load and unload shafts more violently ?
Possibly. I think golfers with a quicker more violent transition can be affected more by how a shaft feels.
I would love a video comparing “Tiger Stepped” wedge shaft vs straight in. To see the numbers would be great!!
The 8i spinner trick will bring launch down and spin up vs straight in with the same shaft. It's done using the 8i shaft from the same shaft, in one flex higher (x100 8i for s300 iron shafts). There's threads online about it
In extension, 'Tiger stepping' is actually tip trimming the same shaft as irons to create a stronger shaft to go about the same result. It came about as Tiger would play the s400 9i shaft in wedges, tipped to create the s400 PW shaft that doesn't exist anymore.
@@Ryan-fx7jx I know how and why but wondering if the numbers would be way different or if it’s more of a feel thing like in this video
Me too. A single soft step is interesting but not the whole story. What about a double soft step since that is the Tiger stepping. I'm playing around with a 4x soft stepping of an X shaft in a vokey wedge since I normally play stiff.
I would wonder if taking the next flex up and 3X soft stepping would move the bend point up enough 1.5" and result in similar flex to the lower flex.
I love it, Loft and Golf ball are the only ways to effective change spin profiles. great information as always.
feel and dispersion are however potentially connected but very hard to quantify
@@tomkar35 Exactly Tom.👍🏻
GREAT STUFF GUYS !!! How about a similar comparison by making head weight heavier to create a softer feeling shaft,,,,see if it is feel only like the hard and soft stepping,,,,,,,
Can you go into more detail about wedges? The 8-iron spinner trick or tiger stepping? I'm playing PXLZ 5.5 in my irons right now and would like to match in my wedges however I have read about the 8 iron spinner trick so would love to hear your thoughts on that too.
I think soft stepping 7 iron shaft to 9 iron would give results that would be more apparent, IE, 14 gram head weight difference instead of 7 gram...Great vid. Boys...
A really good test with interesting results - thanks lads! I'd like to see more stuff like this :) Cheers
Thanks Matt, we definitely have more of this to come.
Does it make any sense to get better feel if you say soft step or half step a Stiff shaft for your 8-9-P and Hard Step or Half step a Regular Shaft for 5-6-7?
I asked this is because we typically weighs all the uncut shaft and the heaviest for P and lightest for the 5i. And the Stiff shafts are heavier than Regular Shafts by a few grams. Personally I always felt when my set is built with progressive SW from D0 to D3, I felt the shorter irons a bit "light/unstable" if they are all Regular and the Long clubs a bit hard to handle/ a lot of effort when they are all Stiff.
How much of a step are you using to differentiate between the standard
So this must apply to driver shaft tipping is well. A half or an inch just can't make that much difference... or can it?
I am around a 5 handicap and I have been battling the shanks for about 5 months. Driver I hit tight fade and can play a draw when I need to. Wedges 60 yards and in + putting is my specialty. I have been playing p790s for about 1.5 years. Took a lot of lessons and fixed a lot of bad habits but still consistently hitting really bad shanks and ultimately have lost any confidence I have with my irons. I have p790s with GD S300 105s, I normally hit 7 iron about 175 when I am not shanking or get good timing that day. Would a fitting benefit me, I think I am going crazy as my clubs are the only thing that haven't changed over the last 5 months.
I've never been fit before and kind of just buy standard off the rack stuff. I play like 2-3 times a week and have a super consistent swing, results keep varying. Want to try soft stepping wedges as well that seems like something I would like. I find it hard under pressure to feel the club in my swing.
Love these tests....its all about feel....
Yes yes yes do a myth busters series
Hey guys I have a shaft query - how much lower flight/peak would an x100 give than a kbs 130x tour on average?
Kinda wondering this too. Love my kbs tour 130x right now
Lookout for a video on that coming very soon.
@@clubchampionmedia awesome. Can’t wait
Interesting outcome. I wouldn't have guessed such a result where overall performance would have been near nil. Excellent test.
Thanks Michael
Also means that the ball flight will change… soft… higher ball flight?
On golfwrx or similar sight in the past I read a lengthy post by a club builder about why kbs tour, for some reason specific to its design, is not a good shaft to hard step or soft step. Is anyone here familiar with a reason why kbs tour should not be soft stepped or hard stepped? (Not just because intermediate flexes are available, but due to some aspect of the shafts design)
Was the club builder Howard Jones?
@@ConnorLyon yes, found the thread. Something about variable wall thickness, and if you hard or soft step need to trim the tip with kbs. Way above my head.
How about a soft stepped X100 vs S400 or hard stepped S400 vs X100?
Worth noting though that he really preferred the feel of green. So I guess step only for feel.
This test must be very hard to get correct, cause some golfers are very sensitive to weight and some seems not to be. Maybe the shots shouldve been hit by someone who knows a lot less than Ian about how this things work cause it felt like Ian was constantly trying to feel a difference but I dont think the test wouldve come out different. I love your tests, just some thoughts. Thank you guys!
Nippon Modus 130 X Flex Soft Stepped Once is Goated 🐐
I was fit into X100 and struggled so much with spin for a whole season until I switched to Modus 3 130X. I feel like they are so much smoother and I can swing with a nice tempo now. With X100 I was spinning 4 irons up into the wind and have them drop out of the air 30-40 yards short sometimes. Eventually I lost confidence when it was windy - I don't think I'll ever not play Modus! (21 t100 heads btw)
From pausing and looking at the chart, it looks like the main pattern came in with dispersion. 18ft average with middle of the road, 12ft with soft, 25ft with hard. Taking tour averages, 12 footers are made roughly 35% of the time while 25 footers are made about 11% (obviously this dispersion pattern would go wider and narrower depending on the club). That difference could be anywhere between 1-4 or 5 more one-putts per round.
Awesome topic..................8 years ago i played Srixon irons (Tour Heads) with DG Tour Issue shafts Soft Stepped. Incredible combo for me at the time. I picked up the set from a tour player (back up set) and i needed the length (1/2 longer) and did not like feel so he said let's take 4 iron shaft and install in 5 iron and followed that progression throughout set. It changed the feel totally and gave me the length needed. Numbers wise i took them to a fitter who after analyzing data said i cannot beat what you have. So to your point for me Soft Stepping gave me the "feel" i liked.
I am 63 years old, with many injuries. Got rid of my DG S300 shafts for Recoil F3 shafts that were soft stepped. So much easier on my hands as graphite does help but also got rid of most of my bad left misses. Also, I don't tire as quickly. Can flight ball up or down and can shape them as well....sometimes not by choice....🤣🤣
Great video. The issue I have is when the shaft is longer than standard, as I currently play KBS Tour X at +1” in length. What effect will that have, playing longer shafts, to the overall “flex” of the shaft? I had mine hardstepped to offset the length difference, but does that really do anything?
Glad to see this video! 👍 I found out my X100’s were soft stepped when i had to replace a broken shaft haha. Curious to see if you ever do a video on feel vs numbers, because I'm not “fit” for my shafts, but the shafts i do “fit” i absolutely do not like and would not play, and our course owner has had the same experience. Seems like feel trumps the numbers for some people and I'm curious if you’ve ever encountered that.
Great Video boys!! I agree with a few others. I would like to see a wedge video. I currently play X100 soft stepped in my 56 and 60 switched from S400 and really like it.
Very interesting! This video is right on time. I'm currently in x-stiff shafts (ball speed with 6 iron is exactly the same as Ian's) and decided to go back to stiff after messing around at the store. This confirms I made the right decision in going a softer. Found that I just strike it better and more consistently. X-stiff, I can spray it with a 6 iron. Thanks for the education!!🙂
That soft step one sure seemed to work really well for you. Feel is very important, so this test wasn't moot as far as visible results. Your timing the shaft more consistently produced a tighter grouping. What lie angle is that iron set up at? It was nice to see the dynamic lie less than a degree up/down for you as well. That is a winner fitting matchup right there. Mikey... have you pulled and reglued Ian's irons yet? :D
Would love to know if soft / hard stepping changed the swing weight or total weight. Maybe this would explain the differences in feel? Would playing the proper swing weight for your swing help dispersion? Further down the rabbit hole we go!
Interesting Mikey's comments on "Feel" such a misunderstood word. Often in fittings I have to explain to the golfer when I ask them how does it feel and the answer is "it's going a bit right" that's an observation rather than a feel. Often many don't "feel" or can only relate to results.
I had my old but favorite Ping Eye 2 set reshafted with soft stepped DG X-100s and fell in love with them all over again. The feeling is so impressive to me.
When you get iron fitting at Club Champion, do you only get to use 6 iron? Is it possible to get the lie angle adjusted differently by club? (e.g. flatter lie angle for shorter irons)
Great video guys. Would be interested to see how softstepping would make a difference for me. Have been looking at possibly going to graphite shafts due to arthritis in my hands and elbow but maybe softstepping softer feel might be hust as good and allow me to keep using the Modus 105s that I like in my irons.
My observation is that while the performance might have been the same, it looked like Ian achieved that performance easier with the soft stepped combo. And if great/better feel helps with confidence than to me that’s enough to go in that direction. Instant classic TXG video!!!
how does this contrast to the bryson one length theory
Curious to see a less experienced/consistent golfer do this test who may have less swing speed. Also trying different flexs i.e. Regular vs soft stepped Stiff vs stiff. And see how the lateral dispersion is affected.
Great video to dispel myth of significant change in flex with SS and HS. Would love to see a video of shaft weight vs swingweight and who would benefit from lighter shaft higher swingweight vs heavier shaft with lighter swingweight.
I tried soft stepping my long irons years ago hopping to get a little more height and distance out of them. Didn't work well for me. The ball launched higher with quite a bit more spin. When hitting a shot into the wind felt like it was impossible to flight the ball down. Every shot just seemed to balloon up and fall short of target.
Great video chaps! Does hard/soft stepping alter swing weight at all? Assuming total length is kept constant.
I’d like to see a tip trimming on wood shafts. Same idea as stepping in my opinion, purely a feel thing but would like to see the numbers
would you say that its more of a preference on how it feels during the swing to produce the consistency? id love to hear about testing other shafts and seeing if the soft step feels better across the board for you.
Love this video, i actually have my 56 and 60 soft stepped for feel but i found same results just feel differences
Ball first, head / lofts second, shaft style third to affect ball flight, totally agree. Saw it w my daughter’s fit clear as day
Great video! Would love to see one on how bend profile of shafts affects club head delivery, specifically face angle.
It’s all just feel, right? If you put them on a robot, would it make any difference?
A question on relative stiffness of soft stepping- for a lineup like modus where they offer multiple flexes in the same weight category, how many “soft steps” would equal a full flex?
For example, if I soft stepped a 120x, would it be like half way between 120s and 120x? Does soft stepping it twice (basically putting 6i shaft in 8i) make it a full flex difference?
It’s about a third of a flex for each step.
Would love to see a comparison of “mis fit” iron shaft flex/weight. Have Mikey hit ladies/senior/regular/stiff/x-stiff shafts with same head. Keep club head speed constant. Might provide nice insight for newer golfers with mis fit clubs or long time golfers that have outgrown their clubs as to effects of shaft on strike and dispersion.
I think this would be a great video
The sound seemed the biggest thing. The soft step had the quietest sound wise...
When soft/hard stepping, would it change the swingweight? And if so, when they were built, were they built to the same swingweights? Very interesting and informative test!
Yes but barely. When soft stepping you're cutting off 0.5" more from the thicker end and 0.5" less from the thinner end so there's a slight weight reduction. But it's less than 1g. The difference in feel is mostly the small difference in CPM and moving the kick point up 0.5".
While ball speed, launch & spin were identical, dispersion definitely wasn't. And that's pretty important!
5+ year follower! I would love to see a myth buster series.
Yet another example that the shaft is a timing device!
It’s all about feel, I have a soft stepped and love them
I have a 9-degree titleist driver that is lowered to 8.25. I hit this and any other driver extremely high.
Any recommendations on how to lower the ball flight? I use an AVX and / or a ProV 1 golf ball and the strike is centered.
Thanks in advance
I had to go to an 8 degree TM head turned down to 6. It was a similar problem for me and I tried basically every other brand. But, no other brand allowed me to easily turn down to 6.
You're delivering too much loft at impact, spend the money on a lesson. Will cost less than a new driver & you'll probably be able to keep your current one.
@@jim60631 if it's otherwise a repeatable and efficient swing, then fitting is a way better solution. Changing that swing won't make it any better than a driver with less static loft. Changing the swing will lead to more frustration as you make the change and there is no guarantee you'll benefit.
Agree to disagree.
Fully dependent on *why* you’re hitting your driver high @exrog
One recent real world example I corrected was a player who was AoA +2, 118mph swing speed, 4500 spin, 140ft high using a TDLS 9* with Ventus Blue TR 7X. Face revealed a low heel miss which explained the spin but not the launch. Video revealed that he was firing his wrists slightly too early before impact. He was delivering excess loft at impact, which explained the launch.
Adjusted his tee height and setup to a middle strike helped some but not all the way.
In the fitting bay, we dropped static loft to 7* helped to make it more manageable. If he was playing a tournament right away, this would be the in hand solution.
We also did some drills to delay the “casting” he was doing, working to keep his hands ahead of the club head at impact rather than behind. This immediately dropped him to better numbers (120 height, 2500 spin), but would take much more work to implement. This is what we eventually decided on, and then coming back for a refit once the swing changes were solidified.
I highly suggest investing in some foot spray to see impact position on your driver, and a tripod for your smartphone to capture some slo-mo video both down the line and head-on to root out the cause.
Thank you!
So it doesn’t matter
I wouldn't say shaft flex doesn't matter. Isn't soft stepped vs hard stepped roughly a full flex range? I agree it doesn't affect spin, but it does have an effect. If that difference in flex didn't matter, every PGA tour player would have X100 in their wedges instead of S400. Even Mikey said he soft steps his wedges.
S400 are heavier and the reason for softer wedge shafts is that you hit a lot of half wedges which you probably don't do with a 7 iron.
@@RCGolf
Agreed, but it does matter. It's about feel.
No, hard/soft stepping is not a full flex. You can Google the fcm stiffness scale by shaft manufacturer and see based on the rifle scale how much it stiffens/softens. If memory serves it's like 0.2 of a flex per step with 1.0 being full flex change but varies based on manufacturer
@@jim60631
I couldn't remember. It's been a long time since I read about the difference.
Free pass for this and free pass for everything else I saw today including this and free pass for all of the other TH-cam videos and TH-cam shorts I saw today so free pass for all of that
Ian, your description at the beginning is what I’d always heard to be called “tipping”. Stepping I thought was going up or down one or two “steps” with a shaft (ie. using an 8-iron shaft in a 7-iron or, vice versa, a 7-iron shaft for the 8-iron).
Great video be interesting with DG shafts since most used shaft
You say for changing spin you don’t SS/HS shafts. I’ll add that @markcrossfield a few years ago compared megasoft ladies flex to tour extra stiff and negligible difference in spin there too.
All my shafts are hard stepped