DOES SHAFT FLEX MATTER?!? - 12 Handicap Blind Shaft Test!! "NOT WHAT I EXPECTED AT ALL..."
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2024
- Does getting fitted for driver shaft actually matter?! So many say that it does, but so many others sat that it doesn't. We are going to be looking at some HUGE key factors here including ball speed, club head speed, spin rate and overall total distance. Is there a placebo?! Well, you'll find in todays video where we have 12 handicap golfer josh. "NOT WHAT I EXPECTED AT ALL..." is what was said at the end of the video, but what was the result, how did this driver perform with the different shafts and is it all a placebo?!
The shafts we are going to test are the X stiff, STIFF, REGULAR, SENIOR shafts in the 2024 Taylormade Qi10. I'm super excited for this one. Does driver shaft FLEX make a difference, find out in this brand new video.
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*The TRUE blind shaft test! 👇🏼 what are your thoughts?*
A proper test would have randomized the order of the 20 shots. Thus, when you take the average for each shaft, fatigue or sensible flex would be factored out. You could always try it again but you should use 8 shots per shaft so that you can apply a statistical analysis (t-test, chi squared etc.) to determine if a real difference exists with the null hypothesis being that there is no difference between the shafts used by that golfer. Sorry for the technical aspect but I was a research scientist during my career.
Surely dispersion is more important with just 3 yards difference between reg and stiff
Fun to watch but otherwise useless as I’d rather sacrifice distance and have more accurate play shots.
Agreed 3 yds on course is negligible it's 3 paces 🤣🤣🤣 also std deviations
@@petekenny3774depends eh if that’s 3 yards in to the rough or 3 yards in to the fairway? 😜😜
Agreed. Shaft 4 looked slightly more consistent to me. Shaft 3 swung between tight draw and tight fade. One wonders if, once he'd sussed it as the S, he just went after it a tad more, and maybe overpowered those first 2-3 swings. Whereas, since he'd sensed a bit more flexibility in Shaft 4, he just paced his swings a wee bit better, and got that better result. That's a lesson all on its own!
It would have been interesting to see a longer test comparing 3 and 4, more like 15-20 swings each, with dispersion included.
Hi Alex. I want to thank you for last weeks lessons. Your video on the grip, has helped me immensely. I have played golf 27 holes and I have driven each drive in the fairway. Your 1,2 3 driver swing has helped my rhythm so much. Your ball position video has really helped my fairway woods. I had an my 3rd eagle today and I had a 39 for 9 holes today. My 1st sub40 round this season. Thank you so much Alex. Keep up he great videos.
I find weight and length have a bigger influence than flex. There is no industry std on flex....plus you have different torque...
While stiffness of shaft is important, bend profile has a huge impact. It would be better to have the same model shaft in different flexes. A good start and keep these videos coming.
That did come into it, for certain. The Green Aldila, (it was just known as an NV in my day, but they might all be NVS now) is more tip stiff per flex level than the two orange Aldilas, as well as being stiffer. I think that's where the fadey-slicey action came from. The tip was interfering with him squaring the face.
That’s a nice swing for a 12 handicap, I’m a 5 and my swing looks like I’m having a seizure.
😂😂😂 ah but it works ...mines like John Daley's but I'm 6.8 what works works mate 👌👌👌...oh I don't hit as far as big John more like tom thumb ffs
Obviously one of the modern day12 handicappers- not happy unless they can score net 59
I do like to see blind tests. While overall distance, club head speed, and ball speed numbers are important, I would say the overall dispersion and standard deviation of the other numbers are more important to me.
I agree. I was watching a video from someone else and they were comparing fiber heads with the same shaft. The only problem they talked about how it felt and all the numbers of ball speed, ball spin, swing speed, etc. They shown the ball dispersion, but the chose the club had that had a huge ball dispersion to the one that had all the balls in 1 spot. The part that got me was the distance of the 2 clubs were the same
Brilliant brilliant brilliant not enough videos like this well done Alex 👍👍👍
Thanks, Alex! Good test. As was similar to my last gamer fitting (Mizzy STX-230), we did a "don't look at shaft". I was moved to regular flex but in the Aldila Ascent shaft. This feels stiff but with the stabilization it has it launches higher and did not raise spin. Which equals more carry. My comfort level is better and can actually swing it faster because of that.
EXcellent idea! im rooting for soft flexes!
The difference between regular and stiff can become blurred dependent on manufacturer, weight and kick points, so fitting is always imperative, if done blind this is advantageous.
I'm a 33 handicap but I'm good at driving. It's every thing else that I stink at. So I'll hit a drive 250-290 and then it'll take another 6 shots to finish the hole.
So I have 2 drivers I use. A 96 Big Bertha with a regular shaft and a Ping G LS with a stiff shaft.
The difference that I find with the regular shaft is that I hit a lot more hard slices because my timing is off. On impact the shaft is still flexed too much so the face is wide open. When I use the big Bertha I have to swing smoother and be more mindful of my timing.
Ultimately I don't find it makes any difference in my score because I still cannot hit a wedge to save my life and I think I'm allergic to greens.
The other thing to note is distribution, or dispersion if you prefer. I would have liked to have seen a grouping test on this as well. To my eye, from what I saw of the shots, shaft 4 gave the best grouping, and most consistent flight. Shaft 3 was a little more inconsistent, swinging between tight draw and tight fade. Shaft 2 was mostly fade to almost slice. Shaft 1 was kinda all over the place. I did notice that the best swing with each came in the 4th or 5th swing, once he'd adjusted to each shaft.
So again, distribution points to 3 and 4, with a bit of an advantage to 4.
Full disclosure. I have loved those orange Aldila NVS shafts in any flex for almost 20 years. Classic, effective bend pattern, modified somewhat from A to S flex, but still with a bit more feel to the tip than the Green Aldilas at any given flex level. They're absolutely mint for me. I hit mine really straight. Not a terribly expensive shaft, either. Mid price. So great value for money. They fit into a lot of golfers, from low to high handicap, lower to quite high swing speed.
My current driver, I got with an extra stiff very heavy shaft. The main reason, was because it was $50 cheaper than any other shaft option I found for that club on ebay. Found out that it was a great fit for me. I have a higher swing speed and tend to hit the ball a higher trajectory. I also tend to hook the ball quite a bit. After getting this shaft and setting the club head to 8 degrees my trajectory seems to a be a lot better. At the time, I didn't know what a heavy shaft would do for my swing. I assumed a stiffer shaft may have helped.
In this case, I would assume that the shaft did actually help the swing in this case due to the fact that the only reason I really cared if that shaft worked was to save me the money of buying another shaft.
Really interesting. Eye opener test, thanks. I would have chosen number 4 too.
Anyway it looks rather simple IMO, just try each flex and see which makes you hit a golf ball rather straight most of the time.
That's why I am playing with all regular shafs now😊I have a club head speed around 105 mph and handicap of 5😊
i have only used stiff shafts since i was 12, despite a slower swingspeed(87), so i probably "should" play a reg but every single regular shaft i have tried thru the years i tend to snap hook. Last year i did my first trackman session ever and it(stiff) turns out its pretty much bang on, less than 1 yard from my "optimal" distance.so id say the correct shaft is what you feel most comfortable with,
Weight is a bigger influence than flex as there are no standards with flex between manufacturers...
Great test, Can you please try the same test on irons and wedges.
When Bryson was playing Grant he used Grant's driver. Grant asked him if the stiff flex was too weak for Bryson to hit. Bryson ripped it his usual way and told Grant that many of the long drive guys were going softer, wayyy softer.
yeh a lot of them are using ladies flex
They are using soft flexes, but with different purpose. Bryson is playing somewhere in the middle, in a very Bryson way, most amateurs do not have the skill.
@@Pud56 yeh most amatuers should just stop worrying about shaft stuff and focus on solid contact, all this shaft stuff is just a waste of time and money if you arent hitting the middle of the club
So many factors in shafts besides flex. That’s why some shafts are $40 and some are $800.
getting fitted matters almost as much as getting coached however i would never tell someone to not play golf with clubs if they didnt get fitted. cause at the end of the day getting on the course and playing golf is what matters.
it helped my game to get more flexible shaft. i would have never considered it on my own
Need a dispersion chart. That info is key for a driver.
Which equates to shaft weight...
@@cjschmitt4882 how?
@@neilkynaston5452 the weight of the shaft will cause drift or pull on the club which will in turn cause draw or fade, etc
Would you get an Aldila shaft or a ventus
To truly be a blind test you shouldn’t have let Josh see any numbers. Dispersion/consistency assessment would have added to the other numbers. Also, for a mid handicapper the later in the round the more tired you are and a stiffer shaft becomes harder to hit well. Josh should go to a regular and not look for 1 booming drive - but he is young and who doesn’t like to smash one😂
This is why Kyle Berkshire the Long Drive Champion carries a regular flex and he said sometimes even a senior flex shaft in competition. Check his video on WITB and he has like another where he talks about it saying reg flex gives him more whip. Cheers!
From what I have tried I can not hit lighter shafts but the wight of the shaft is also important
I typically swing between 100-105 mph. I've found that using X stiff shafts in my woods works better for me. Specifically, I use Ventus Blue 2024 60X & 70X in my Driver and 3 wood, and a Graphite Design AD IZ 8X in my Apex UW. I think shaft profile is more important than the flex.
about 20 years ago, i went to the local course for a round of golf, but forgot my driver. The guy in the pro shop let me use a driver he had in the back room. At that time i was about 50 or so, and probably about a 12 handicap, and averaged 250 yds or so at the time. Now i'm not exaggerating at all, i was driving the ball 325 to 350 yards, all the way around and got into trouble driving into players ahead that would have been way out of my range normally.I returned the club, and stupid me, didnt get the info on the shaft and i dont remember the brand either. I got thinking, and went back the next day and offered to buy that driver, at any price and they claimed they couldn't locate it. I know then that a certain shaft will make all the difference in the world. and have hit dozens of drivers since then, but haven't been able to match that particular club. Just sayin.
My ideal shaft sits between regular and stiff, really makes a difference.
The shaft is a timing device for hands to head. They overall help with dispersion first, flight second, distance third. Well that's my personal opinion on shafts.
I’d say the tip, bend profile, and weight are more important than the flex itself
I would like to see you do high kick v low kick as well as low torque v strong torque
I've returned to regular flex but 10 grams heavier which feels exactly the same as a lighter shaft in stiff. Regular is perceived as softer which most amateurs would benefit more from according to many top professionals.
shouldnt let him bend and test the flex on the shafts
Always good to see Josh on the channel!
I'm 8:07 in....#4 shaft and get him into that 12deg loft. Magic!
100% matters. And it is more based on your Swing Speed not Handicap. Faster Swing Speed means you need a stiffer shaft. If you have a slow Swing Speed you should go with Regular or Senior Shaft.
I snapped my driver shaft (got closed in the car door 😢 ) so I had to borrow a friend's driver last weekend. Too stiff for me, I think, or maybe too heavy. Bottom line, the first half dozen shots all went straight out to the right (blocked) until I adapted. Didn't like it much, bit at least I was playing...
I'm a 95mph SS player and I hit my buddies Paradym Triple Diamond last weekend with X Stiff shaft (he is 110+ mph). Any way I absolutely crushed it. Probably the best 5 drives I had all day. My gamer is a TSR2 with Tensei AV Blue R shaft. I felt like I there was much less dispersion than with my "Spray and Pray" regular shaft.
Can you buy those universal shaft adapters anywhere?
I personally have more interest in the question, "does shaft torque matter"?
This is very interesting, all I would say is… shaft Manufacturing standards vary. Reg shaft can play very close to a stiff. Did you actually check the flex?
I bought a 2007 Bridgestone head and a $20 Acer Velocity Stiff shaft. $40 driver that crushes.
So is flex more important than club length ?
Hey Alex, Great test but what about dispersion for the R and S flex shafts? Wouldn't that have to be figured in to make a final decision?
True
What was the driver screw Kit called ?
Those Adilla AVS shafts are really nice feeling but the green and orange have very different flight/flex profiles. They are very light as well. I have tried them both but they were too light for me and the head felt "vague" making it inconsistent. I was fitted with a high 60's gram Senior flex shaft and not only do I get good distance it feels better and I am much more consistent.
The Placebo Effect. Well said.
(Don't tell the golfing industry though.)
The average UK golfer handicap is 18.
It was 18 in the 1960s. And in the 1970s etc, etc.
Re the placebo effect:
grab a random putter from a charity shop or a car-boot for £4 or £5. (Lee Trevino famously did this)
You'll hit the best putts of your life.
It's pure magic.
Next round? Back to normal.
Is it your new cheap putter that has failed you? Really? Or is it you, the golfer?
Everything matters, for me it’s the shaft that makes a good driver into a great one.
A dispersion graphic would have been great as well, just to see where everything ended up on the course etc.
I'd have liked to see Josh's response to that, though.
Ok, i have one question. Now the guy swinging the clubs is at least semi-professional (i dont really follow golf) and would be able to unconsciously adjust his swing to fit the club. How would the data look for a regular duffer like me ... who has only made one legit birdie in over 100 rounds played over the years. I think i handicap at 30.
What's the universal adapter?
A friend (really) who probably can't break 80 mph driver swing speed and wants a 5x shaft. Can that possibly be appropriate for him? I told him to seek professional help (meant that in both ways!). Thank you!
Shaft 3 is his gamer spin
In my opinion, shaft flex doesn't matter nearly as much as the torque of the shaft.
They have a”Deal or No Deal” in the USA.
I use a stiff and when I try hitting a regular flex at the same speed I send the ball way to the left lol. If I slow down my swing speed I can get it straight though
That's odd. I would think that if you swing a regular shaft faster, the face would stay more open and then end up with a push to the right.
@@bluetoughguy to be fair I am new and bad at golf but that has been my one observation
I swing a stiff shaft but if I swing a regular I don't get the club head square consistently leaving the ball high and right(right handed)
I hear that weight is more important. A blind test of weight would be great
swing weight matters when changing flex
Put them in the hand of a decent golfer and they’ll notice huge difference in spin and dispersion. Weight is massively important too
Haha he knows in his heart he fits into a REG but can't admit it on camera 😂
It's an interesting test, but it would be more relevant if done with a golfer whose driver swing speed isn't in PGA tour range. This guy must putt blindfoled to carry a 12 hcp.
I mean, shafts are important because people react differently to them. You’ll hardly see any difference if a robot swings the club, but we’re not robots. If psychologically you hate a senior flex shaft or have a bias against it, then it’s worse for you
Sorry but without dispersion, I cannot come to a full conclusion from these tests. Please repeat but with a different player.
Its about the human or the shaft that adapt.
257 😂 speed 112 lovely stuff
He looks tall but drives short like me. I’m short
Bloody x100 and s400 are heavy and stiff as well as 6.0s like a board
Please try again with a mid handicapper with a 90 mph clubhead speed. Josh is too tall and too athletic.
You did better with regular flex
I am going to cal B.S. on this test. It is my considerable experience (I am a 12 hdcp) that 12 handicap golfers DO NOT hit the ball anywhere near 280 yards with 112 club head speed. I have never seen one yet with those numbers and I play 5 days a week, so a lot of exposure. A 12 Handicap will hit a driver more like 180 to 220 max with club head speeds of 85-95.
Maybe he has a ropey short game.
Then you are a better Judge than Rick Shiels ...Rick did the same thing a couple years back and out of 5 shafts he was right on 2...
It is not typical for sure. However, I know a couple guys that in league play are higher HCP but can hit is even farther. Their direction is drunk but if they are on they can score well. Everything is full out and their short game is junk. But, they can hit is 300. I also know and have played with people who hit is 200 and are about level par. Impeccable short game and iron play and can put lights out.
I think he should hit them in order. shaft one which is shaft 2 vs shaft two which is shaft 4 etc.
All that being said, I felt that the second shaft which was shaft 4 was his best fit.
No difference in shaft flex. 3 or 4 yards. After you’ve hit it 3 or 4 times you adjust any way to the shafts
I think the slower the swing speed the more it matters
All about feel .. the I gained 30 yards with this shaft or that shaft is all BS
Blind....only if he's coloured blind lol...
Pointless if we don’t see dispersion
Americans do know what deal or no deal is coz as usual they saw it over here and then stole it for themselves 😂
I stopped watching at .... distance 257, clubhead speed 112.
His H/C may be average, but those numbers aren't.
Average golfers need to know the opposite to what this video is saying...
If you have a sub 100 swingspeed is a xstiff playable? Is there any practicable difference between S & M? (Ooh er mrs)