Handling vs Grip - And A Long Discussion About The Porsche Boxster GTS 4.0L (Ultimate Waffle!)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 เม.ย. 2021
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In today's video I am taking the Porsche Boxster GTS 4.0 out for a drive, and talking a little bit how I felt it and the Cayman fall short of the standard set by Porsche's previous cars.
#Porsche #Boxster #GTS4.0L
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/ @jayemmoncars - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
The first 1000 people to use the link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/jayemmoncars04211
Since years on that platform :-D But thank you for the offer :-D
Nice Jay!! I’m glad skillshare are sponsoring you.
Jay, what’s your height? Aren’t you too tall for the Boxster?
Are there any sports cars that are the complete package? Steering, sound, gearing, weight etc
Just get too it please “ Too much useless chatter .
12:54 What you’re hearing is the engine switching off 3 of the 6 cylinders (for that great MPG). You can turn that feature off using the Auto Stop/Start button (not the Exhaust button).
I find it weird that I know this too, and I never drove a GTS 4.0. I'd expect a professional car reviewer to do a bit more research. Both this, and the previous review of the Cayman feel biased. First one, maybe due to having a bad day. This one seems to be meant to support the conclusions of the first one.
@@claudiu7219 Firstly, James is a professional. He carries himself with utmost integrity and honesty so there's no question of that. I doubt Porsche mention the cylinder deactivation causes a weird droning noise so how would one know unless you really think about it? You've both made a very good observation for figuring out why that noise occurred but lets not get on someone for not knowing a small detail.
Love how genuine and honest your reviews are
But he doesn’t seem to like other’s honest reviews.
@@MasterMalrubius why do you think that?
@@MasterMalrubius what hasn't Jaame liked about others reviews?
I think Jay and Thomas of Autogefuhl are the best I’ve seen.
I genuinely enjoy these long chat style videos with a more technical focus. I think I may even prefer this style.
The "helper springs" talked about in the Video are also called "Vorspannfeder" (loosely translated as "Preload Spring"). The main job is to take on the static load of the vehicle. So when the car is adjusted on the ground, the spring is mostly fully compressed. That gives you a) the room to use the mainspring to its full extend (as the load of the vehicle doesn`t compress the mainspring when there is a "preload spring") and b) it helps when the car jumps for example to control the load and seating of the main spring. So mostly you get aware of the existence just in Rebound. Some manufacturers use "progressive springs". They have a tighter part that does the job of the "helper spring" and the main part for driving similar to a "normal" mainspring. - There are also dampers that can work very well with the normal spring sets (like Koni`s Frequency Selective Damping for example). So you can combine something to your liking, you just need to know what you are doing.
This. And the reference to Renault Sport is for the hydrolic bumpstops they have in the dampers, I guess.
I realised the mistake too, but your explanation was better than mine would have been 👍🏻
So widely misunderstood.
Not entirely though.
There are setups where the sitter spring is not intended to be fully compressed under static load. This gives a short bit of compression to absorb smaller bumps without upsetting the chassis while also allowing a firmer platform for handling.In production cars this has expressed as progressive rate springs. These are or were expensive and difficult to tune so they were left to the OEMs. Aftermarket either went dual spring or single rate.
2nd post - gotta say, you've relaxed into a style of presentation that you are clearly comfortable with, the whole "show" is getting better with every video.
I test drove one of these today. For comparison I once owned a 981 Boxter which I loved, a car that really did flow over UK roads. I currently own a 992 C4S which is mighty impressive but have been wondering whether this new, much vaunted Boxter GTS would be good enough to persuade me to swap. In short, the 4.0 litre engine is a complete gem, such character and instant punch in a turbocharged age (and what a noise!); the handling is pure mid-engined Boxter - I experienced no skipping; the ride may be slightly firmer than the 981 which is no great surprise given the extra punch but wasn’t actually uncomfortable. The steering is probably amongst the better electric systems and I was more than happy with its weighting and accuracy. The only issue I had was the interior which works fine but is a step back in time from the 992. All told, it is now a very tough decision!
Go on then, did you swap?
@@tb-cg6vd Everyone needs a 303!
@@ianedmonds9191 They surely do! And a Porsche!
Just get a 335d and remap it 🥳
Fun vs good looking huge status symbol
This is a great video and discussion about handling and ride. You seem to be the only TH-camr who dares, about Porsche not being absolutely perfect.
Jay, after that interesting rant it would be really good if you could list your Top10 "steering feel" cars that you've driven so far.
That way there's more of a chance we may have driven one of them and thus have a baseline for your comments on other cars to compare with.
Thanks for posting!
Great Idea. Please do
The big magazines really like Porsches they just give them all five stars yet the next model is always better somehow. Very disappointing. It's a good job people like you are honest and actually find flaws in the car rather than giving them all 10/10 best car ever.
The best way to get an honest review from a mainstream reviewer is to wait until a car has been superseded and they'll tell you what was so wrong about it while praising the new model they are now driving. If a car is no longer available new, you can be honest without upsetting the brand, and therefore not be given anymore cars to review. Can't bite the hand that feeds.
@@christophersapsford1828 yeah that's absolutely true. I sometimes watch or read them thinking damn the old model was 5/5 or 10/10, now you are saying all these things were wrong with it and the new model was better. So it never was 10/10 they just lied XD
They did used to almost never give 5 star reviews. When I used to read Autocar, they maybe gave 1-2 cars a 5 star review out of a whole year and it had to be best in class and better than anything before it ever was. Now it seems they'll give out 5 stars every issue, and porcshe or Ferrari is automatically 5 stars. Pathetic tbh.
This is one of your best videos yet and that's saying something!
You explained everything in an easy to understand way and really elaborated on the reasoning behind your views on the car, which most reviewers rarely do. I feel you would have taught a few petrolheads about the suspension workings and technical aspects too
Very, very well done!
The best description of handling I have heard is that good handling gives you predicable outcomes. It's not about grip, lightness or power, it's about you being able to go around the same corner at the same speed time after time.
I often find myself disagreeing with you, and sometimes get a bit annoyed. But I keep coming back and watching your reviews as I appreciate and respect your honesty. Keep doing what you're doing mate.
Excellent review, excellent teaching, always improving, keep it up!! From and enthusiast for 30 years, all this "feel" stuff matters. It matters not only from a joy of driving standpoint, but also from a perspective of mutual communication from both car and driver, which leads to a better experience AND often better lap times of that's what you're going for.
Hi, I think that ”Boouhh” sound you talk about is because the engine shuts cylinder from 6 to 4 depending the drivesituation. In 4 cylinder mode the enginge makes that sound. Push the start/off button. In ”off” setting the engine allways run 6 cylinder. I think the sound gos away…
The strange engine sound you don’t like is when it’s running on 3 cylinders. It does this to improve the fuel consumption. When I test drove a Cayman GTS 4.0 it seemed to me that it disables that mode when the car is in put sport mode. Ride wise I was happy with the car I tested, it felt similar to my 987 Boxster S which I think has a good ride for a sports car.
Yup. Came here to write this.
Yep I have the 4.0 and it is when it goes to 3 cylinders and it is stopped by turning stop start off. Ride is quite supple and comfortable considering it is a sports car. In actual fact everyone who has been in the car comments how comfortable it is and forgiving. The Pirelli tyres are awful. Michelin’s PS4s are going on shortly!
The car simply shuts the exhaust valves between 2k and 4k regardless of throttle position or drive mode.
This is to pass drive by noise regs around the world.
It makes the strange noises at these speeds due emissions equipment. The same noises occur on small / larger throttle openings, running on 3 or 6.
@@cartherapy718 I liked the car a lot from the short drive I had. I thought the steering feel wasn’t as good as my 987 but I’m sure you’d get used to it. What do you think of the car? I’m considering getting a Boxster GTS.
@@bluebristolian I looked at all sorts. Have had 2 987 Boxsters. Was going to go for a 981 Spyder but couldn’t find the one I wanted. Talking to dealer and they had the exact spec in showroom so deal done on the CGTS. It is brilliant. Steering it brilliant, yes different I guess but turn in is excellent and engine is great. Turn stop/start off and it is fine! Take the vacuum pipes off and seal and the exhaust is great! Not as noisy as the 981 and doesn’t make all the pops but that was too much in the 981. It is a great all rounder, it’s fast comfortable and looks great. Was split between cayman and Boxster but this was the spec I wanted and it happened to be in the cayman!
I really love your closing theme and graphics mate! Also, thanks for the well reasoned defense and continued effort to bring us these great reviews. 🙏
Your consistency of content is second to none. Feels like everyday you’re releasing something new, that can’t be easy but the work rate is appreciated.
It's not, and thankyou for noticing :)
I AM glad you said Porsche not Porsche A
@@hobojon44 that's the wrong way. It's two syllables, and the "e" at the end is pronounced as a schwa. It is a proper name (family surname in this case) and the proper pronunciation is approximately "Poor-scha". "Porsch" is objectively wrong; there is no circumstance in which the one-syllable pronunciation is correct.
10:14 would love to hear more about this one day! love your videos and always appreciate how honest your reviews are :) watching all way from NZ
The two tone (droning) exhaust note you mention @ circa 13.00mins is the cylinder deactivation and swapping banks of cylinders to maintain catalytic converter temps. You can switch this off by turning off 'start/stop'.
Thank you for putting effort and care into these videos! We appreciate you (:
Was this posted nearly a week ago and I have finally got some time to sit down with a beer in the sun and watch at my leisure.
I am glad I did and thoroughly enjoyed this review as I am currently looking at the Cayman GTS 4.0 as my next car, but delivery is looking way out to maybe next year now, with the con rod issue not filling me with confidence at the moment!
Excellent review and reviewing style.. Nicely relaxed and conversational and is very easy to listen to and enjoy. Cheers!
Great video. I loved my mildly modified 996 GT3 and one of the highlights was the fantastic steering feel. Agree with your comments about the Ferrrari 355. I hired one in the early 2000's and loved the performance, the looks, the noise, a quite brilliant gearchange and the ride/handling was generally good but just let down by an overlight, lifeless steering.
Hi James, your right about how some cars work best when driven hard, i just a replaced the bushings, bearing and suspension on my NA mx5 and its not all that great slow around town , but on the track it really comes alive and handles amazing at full chat...sadly just this saturday at my local track i blew my engine....ho hum...hahaha...great video mate
The OG M2 used to do that skipping on uneven surfaces. Wasn’t a problem on a straight or at slower speeds just made it feel fun. But a fast sweeper somewhere in Wales or Scotland and it can make you feel a little nervous like it’s going to step out on you for no real reason
Yes those can be a little sketchy under power. Not ideal!
The GTS 4.0 never does any of that shenanigans though.
Utter traction regardless is amazing and is aided partly by the longer ratios.
If you want a brand new sports car - this is the one to buy ! Warranty, latest tech, awesome engine.
I doubt you will even look grumpy when driving it !
I always put your opinion of handling and feel above other journalists since you drive the cars exactly like normal people do on the road. Is it possible if you can give a scale or leaderboard of driving feels of cars you’ve tested? I’d be so curious to see how cars of different eras and different performance levels compare.
Complements to your audio setup. Your voice is very clear even though the top is down. Really enjoyed this video.
Thankyou
@@JayEmmOnCars can you share what mic are you using?
A 'dead kitten' makes a huge difference.
An interesting perspective - thank you. I'm the owner of a 981 Boxster S with PASM and 20" alloys and I'd like to question a couple of your main points about the 718 GTS 4.0 (and I have no axe to grind, as mine is the earlier model).
I'm not clear from your review which PASM was fitted to the car you were driving. The Sport PASM (-20 mm) is quite firm and the 'normal' PASM (-10 mm) is more compliant. The Sport PASM looks better in press photos, so I suspect the car had Sport PASM, which is the standard fit on the GTS 4.0. Normal PASM is a no cost option (and the one I would go for). I have normal PASM on my 981 and it rides well at low speed.
My second question is regarding your view on the tyres fitted to the car. It sounds like you've already had people telling you that the Pirelli's are rubbish (which they are), but perhaps I can elaborate. The Pirelli PZero N0 tyres I had fitted to my 981 were amazing if the ambient temperature was above 20 deg C. They were very grippy and the sidewalls had a very nice compliance that worked well with the suspension. However, in lower temperatures, the sidewalls behaved as if they were run flats. At really low temperatures they felt like they were absolutely solid. I know Porsche will have worked with Pirelli on the development of the tyre, but in my view they got it very wrong for Northern European countries who spend most of the year well below 20 deg C. I replaced the Pirelli's when they were only half worn and decided to go with Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2s which are known to have a more compliant sidewall. They transformed the car across all ambient temperatures, and as an added bonus are also much quieter.
Just my tuppence worth, and do keep up the good work!
I am picking up my Boxster GTS 4.0 from the Porsche HQ this week. The Porsche vibe is much more to my style than anything else. I've had a 981 Cayman S and my only complaint was the lack of power. Besides that, the 981 was fully brilliant.
Great review JayEmm. Regarding the suspension, Porsche is a German car, and German roads are so much smoother than British roads. I agree about the Sports suspension setting, with my 987.1 Cayman S I only use it on motorways or good A roads. I also agree about the ‘agressive’ throttle response in Sport mode, I have scared myself a few times!
100% agree, My one thing.
Tyre pressure is one of the most annoying things for me.
A combination of vendor and a couple PSI the wrong way can make a car feels pants. BMW's in particular for me.
Thanks Jay, good to have someone with your "real" experience reviewing with solid facts and truth....!!
Really enjoyed this, especially the general discussion of steering feel. As well as being engaging, steering feel used to be an important safety characteristic before we had traction control. Imagine trying to drive an old rally car at the limit on dirt or gravel without steering feel. Traction control has robbed us of the need to have steering feel to keep us from flying off the road.
Jay, have you considered making a top 10 list cars to buy by you?
I've seen most of your reviews but I couldn't figure out which ones you think are worth considering.
As always, great video. I look forward to the next one.
Boxsters are brilliant; they’re so chuckable. Look after them well, and they’re great fun. Love to try one of these, though!
Thanks J, liked this format.
I wasn't expecting this from something you titled "- and a long discussion about...", but I just watched one of your best videos yet!
Glad you enjoyed!
Love the in depth exploration of the tradeoffs of geo and damping etc. I didn't mind the suspension too much on this car. I just didn't feel enough through the steering. I can understand why some might like more comfortable steering but I always like more feedback and a stiffer setup.
Don’t add power steering plus, you’ll get more feeling without it.
this feels like a more watchable podcast imo. would love to see more. thank you for sharing!
I think most people completely misunderstand what a helper spring does. In almost all driving the helper spring is Completely Compressed and does nothing with respect to suspension dynamics. The helper spring is there for when you get the car very, very light and the suspension is in full droop. In this situation, the helper spring extends / becomes decompressed to keep the main suspension spring pinned against its lower perch so the main spring doesn't come off of this perch or rotate on it.......which can be very, very bad. Got it folks ? I agree with you. Most newer sporty cars suffer from too stiff suspension, too low profile tires, and too high 'required' tire pressures.
Roadholding/grip is how fast you can go round corners without losing traction front or back. Handling is how the chassis reacts to a loss of grip.
My old MR2 had awesome grip and could corner motorway slip roads at advisory 30 mph at about 50 mph. Just after the sliproad there was a 90 degree corner down to my rural house.
Spun out twice on that because although the Mr2 had great grip the handling was pretty sketchy.
Didn't crash it but I did do the whole over correction tank slapper thing a couple of times.
My Z4 in contrast has decent grip but breaks grip more progressively and handles much more smoothly.
The breakout is far more progressive.
That's what I always understood the difference between handling and grip.
Luv and Peace.
Thanks Jay for answering about tire issues etc..
What would you recommend instead of Cayman 4.0 GTS? Like the NA sound, like the Cayman balance, like the lighter weight than for example 992.
Excellent video. Anyone who had a question about your verbiage on your previous car reviews, and specifically speaking about the Porsche Boxster, as you reference in this video. And those that have a question about what you mean when you use terms like, “compliance, road grip, handling or over responsive, should not have any confusion after watching this review. I’m not an expert by any means, but I love cars and I particularly like your reviews. Actually, in truth, I often binge watch your show because I get a strong sense you are giving an honest, experienced, and fair review. Though I do also think in this particular clarification video, about the Porsche Boxster, you may have held Porsche’s hand a bit as you walked them through that clarification process with bit of, and pardon the pun, but your delivery of some of those truths to Porsche and the listeners respectively, were communicated on some of the softest suspicions, not unlike some of the best Mercedes S class among us! I understand your reason for doing it in that way, and I say this not to criticize you, but to express my thoughts on your, very thoughtful and sincere efforts to make your clarifications in this video, and I hope, Porsche, especially the watching public or any other vehicle manufacturers that you should review in the future, take note of this video and those efforts you so, carefully and methodically explained here to help educate us, and not be so quick to question your integrity, your good or fair intentions of your TH-cam space going forward. -Keep up the good work.
FYI, I too like the Porsche Boxster, even the early models. Especially the early models. The belt lines are much lower in line with those early chassis and to me, look and feel like a true roadster. All model Boxster’s are attractive though, indeed, it’s piece of handsome art.
Thanks
Manuel A.
I appreciate the commitment to an original opinion and an honest one.
I'm pleased to see Jay explaining the difference between grip and handling, for example the humble Morris Minor on 135 tyres has low levels of grip compared to modern cars but with it's steering feel and well designed suspension is a pleasurable car to drive.
I have a totally different opinion to you ,ref the minors driveability ,I find it to be very skittish above 110 mph .You can make it far more drivable by taking the torsion bars up notch or two ! .
@@geraldswain3259 110 mph, lol, I'm talking about the standard 1098cc 48BHP car that tops out at 78MPH. Not a good idea to move the torsion bars because that has the effect of cutting suspension travel and lowering only the front of the car.
I am constantly torn between keeping my Macan and getting a Boxster. But I think my Macan is better suited for the rough roads I like. And I think that may be the case, here, too. Those roads are barley suitable for an ox cart. JMHO, of course. I also think it takes some getting used to the electronic aid in a Porsche. Not everyone understands what the car wants. Once you do it all makes sense. Understeer is the result of entering a corner too slow and getting on the gas too early. Run in hard on the brakes and point it at the corner exit before getting on the gas. Let the rear finish the corner.
This was really as fascinating as I expected. Thank you for explaining why a properly geo-ed and aligned and tyred 1989 944 was the best-driving car I've yet experienced while a Tesla 3 is so disappointing from this point of view.
For a next question I'd enjoy your illustration / thoughts on the leaning-to-the bump stops handling strategy of the latest MX-5 vs say the softer and flatter suspension tuning of the Fiat 124.
In regards to budget video making well I agree mate we are doing it on a budget and it’s working
Absolutely respect and love your honesty and unbiased reviews James because you don't watch other reviews before you make your own.
I’ve come to the conclusion that Jay just doesn’t like Porsches, but that’s ok, that’s why there are different manufacturers. Besides, someone has to keep the Lotus repair shops in business.
But I've owned a couple and loved many - so I think that's an odd conclusion to draw?
Porsche is superior to Lotus in every way. They are the benchmark for sports cars and always will be.
@@derekbrettell8121 Having owned both, you are wrong. Look up EVO Car of the Year 2009 to see just how good a Lotus is.
My impression is that he is always a little disappointed that they are not always as good as they should be.
@@derekbrettell8121 Sweeping generalisation, have you been reading EVO solidly? I have owned 2 911's and a Boxster and I wouldn't put any of them in the top 3 cars I have owned.
Nice review James, totally agree with the track times (usually Nurburgring).. A pointless exercise, it's far more important to have a car that s good on the road as opposed track given that's where the majority will spend their life.
Thank you for the honesty.
I love this honest commentary on these cars. I have a 718, but haven't been fortunate to drive anywhere near the number of cars you have experienced. So hearing how it compares against a much larger sample size is interesting and useful. I have driven an Exige and Evora and I can absolutely fully 100% vouch for the steering feel of the road texture. The 718 is dead in comparison. When there's an electric motor between the steering wheel and the wheels you're always going to lose something.
Ultimately I wonder if these cars are just geared up (figuratively and literally) to be driven very fast. They're at home doing 120mph on a sweeping smooth circuit bend, not doing 50mph down a potholed British B road. But of course it's the latter where it's realistically going to spend most of it's life..
What if Porsche made a car optimised for this sort of driving? Probably nobody would buy it.
Is that an insta360 x2 hanging from the rear view mirror? How good is the footage from in car? worth getting one?
Those roads are great. I especially like the one that goes from...no, it's our little secret.
Interesting
I know where he is when the video starts and I know where it ends but I didn't recognize any of the villages in the middle bit I know some really horrible narrow roads are in the area too.
@@baheh1801 Where are these roads?
Fantastic episode. Thank you!
My 987 Boxster made me a Porsche fan, but after driving the newer cars can't say I'm tempted to upgrade. I'm 6'4 and would love the extra space in a 981, but giving up steering feel (and then engine sound in the 718) doesn't feel like progress.
Instead I've spent the difference on an R53 Mini Cooper S JCW and so far feel I'm having more fun than in either Boxster (for under $10k). Decent hydraulic steering feel, weighty controls, that supercharger whine, and character in spades.
I love the neon 80s cyberpunk aesthetic of the outro song and graphics.
Great video with honours! (love the MIB reference)
James, for people who would be keen to review cars, it would be great if you could do a video where you list the best cars (as reference points) to compare specific qualities that affect the driving experience. For example: Alpine A110+Lotus Evora for best suspension dampening, S2000+Porsche Cayman GT4 for best gear shift feel, McLaren 570S+Lotus Evora for best steering feel etc.
Fully agree on the analysis of the suspension. Would have been so much better and more practical if it had a GT, relaxed feel to it that would make it perfect for every day and long drives.
I couldn’t agree more. I drove it on some B roads and I couldn’t wait to get out of it. It beats you up. Oddly, the base model didn’t give me the same impression.
How would u compare the 718 4 litre to the 981 gts 3.4?
You reviewed (and liked) the 981 generation of the Boxster GTS a couple of months ago. Would you say that the 981 generation didn‘t have the same issues, or were you less focused on these aspects when reviewing the 981?
James tells Porker owners how to use their car. James , I especially liked the LS600H review. As a trader we all love a temporary large engine barge or smoker while we find a buyer; for this your comment what we really want from a car is true. For everyday use a V12 large limo is just it; for fun may I suggest a Lotus, Exige or Elise or similar without P.A.S.
Once owned a Boxster 987 and the sport suspension was useless and far to hard from British roads. I always felt it was over tyre’d which mad it skip and fidget when pushing on. Then I traded it for a Lotus Evora and that was magic but only when it worked which in the four years I owned that wasn’t very often sadly. I am looking for another sports car but need something to handle, ride and look 👀 like the Evora but work!!!!! Ideas???
Yes, Centre Gravity in Atherstone UK, Chris and Pete are Porsche setup Gurus !
Great vid and content as ever!! However, on the subject of weight.. Did Harry not go back to measuring a 911 to make sure there wasn't an issue with the scales? For example (as you will probably know) an early S1 Elise was MUCH lighter than a slightly later S1 Elise despite published weights being identical. I had an S1 ('97 no. 538) and my friend still has a three year older S1 and it's approx. 40KG heavier. You could feel it in the weight of the doors alone when opening them. Not saying Harry couldn't have made a mistake either, but to me it seems odd.
Another great video, happy to listen to your opinion, that can’t be wrong, people can agree or disagree, that’s ok too, fact isn’t opinion. Keep well 👍
I own one with the PDK box and I must say, I do like the way it feels and goes. I suppose we are all different. My steering wheel also has stitching to match the trim of the car.
Doubling up on comments here, but throttle response I think is a terminology issue. To me, response means how quickly the engine power changes with pedal movement- not how the pedal is mapped to power input. By that definition, a throttle can't be too responsive since you want it to exactly match your input. However, it can be mapped badly and too twitchy if 5% pedal movement = 50% power, and that can also be not responsive if for example a car has turbo lag. That combination is a particularly fun one.
12:56 in the video where you start talking about that hum...I was watching this with headphones on from the start and actually paused and checked with some other videos because I thought I had some kind of ground loop going on, ha!
The ’humm’ sound is the cylinder deactivation. As default it is activated but you can turn it off by pressing the button below exhaust sound button.
Astute observation about anything adaptive or dynamic robbing cars of more feel.
I’m ~6k miles in with a Cayman 4.0 so probably one of the higher milers. Interesting review and I think the difference is you are assessing in isolation in many ways, identifying what is ‘wrong’ with the car. In that context it’s fair comment. For me my GTS is the most expensive car I’ve had so is a high point. My previous car was an M2 and in comparison the cayman is a much more sophisticated affair. I love the steering, much prefer it to the M2 which was ‘sticky’ about the straight ahead and didn’t have anything like the feel. I had an Elise, S2 K series, and know what you mean about feeling the road from that car but I really wouldn’t want it in my Cayman which I use more as a general car than a weekend blaster. Ride I find is excellent on the road, I have the 10mm option, but the handling is far more balanced than the M2 was, it doesn’t frighten me in the same way. Clearly you drive many more cars than me and are a great reviewer, I tend to drive as I find and enjoy what I’m in, but for me the Cayman 4.0 is a really fine fun general car to drive, I personally don’t want a super focussed race car for the road and this car really is special. Strangely my biggest issue is with the Porsche experience, I find everything about owning the car inferior to the BMW experience I’ve had for 8 previous years. I just feel the whole thing is about how much cash they can get out of you, good cars but the experience is led by marketing people whose priority is profit generation. Also the in car systems are inferior.
Interesting. I have a manual m2C and am waiting for my allocation on a GTS. There are flaws in the m2 that I hope the Porsche overcomes. I'm assuming I will really enjoy it. (daily driver, cruiser, not a track guy).
@@S2kTi hi, I think you will really enjoy the GTS. The M2 is more of a visceral experience in that if you press it there is always that feeling it wants to kill you, I would add I found that fun. The Porsche as I say above is more sophisticated and is a much more controlled drive. I did a Porsche club Oulton park track day and loved the precision of the car. I’m certain you will love it. I’m up at 12,000 miles in 18 months so do drive as you suggest, using the car for regular long trips. I see in excess of 30mpg on a long trip if I’m pootling along, I got 28-29 in the M2 in similar circumstances.
I’ve just spent 3 years in a GTS with -20mm chassis. The harder mode essentially locked out the dampers. Track mode would be a better description.
The normal road never skipped and was always comfortable.
Even my Mum thought so!
I now have a -10mm GTS and both modes are road calibrated.
Normal is really compliant and even the firmer setting won’t ‘skip’ on B-Roads.
The -10mm is lovely in the UK.
Was this the old 2.5 GTS?
@@JayEmmOnCars
Morning,
-20mm was 2.5 yes.
Normal was brilliant.
Sport mode just launched the car vertically.
Now have a -10mm 4.0 and both modes feel great on road. Much more suitable for B-roads.
Normal is really comfortable.
Firm is still compliant enough to react to higher frequency lumps and bumps.
I’ve never had any of the skipping, like most BMW’s with runflat tyres seem to do generate. If that’s the trait you were suffering from?
Surrey B-roads are no picnic either 🙈
@@DontPanicDear What tyres are you on out of interest?
@@JayEmmOnCars
The 2.5 came with P-Zero, which I changed to PS4S after a year. Massive improvement in everything really.
The 4.0 luckily arrived with PS4S fitted 🤓
@@DontPanicDear Again, as mentioned in the video, I've experienced quite dramatic differences between tyres but the unfortunate problem is if Porsche UK insist on saying the P Zeros are "right" then that's how I have to judge it!
Happy haircut man!
I prefer these kind of videos! long form chatting
6:01
Henry Metcalf......
I've searched for his channel but it didn't come up 😁
I know. I'm inventing reviewers now
@@JayEmmOnCars you can do as you please sir! 😁
Just keep the brilliant videos coming. We respect your opinion. Best car channel 👍🏻
Maybe he was serious. Harry's Garage for Harry and Carfection for Henry.
@@markburton5170 I searched for Harry Catchpole and nothing came up either
Henry Catchpole is on Carfection. Harry Metcalfe is on Harry's Garage. They are both excellent car reviewers.
It does have auto hold. To engage it you have to press the brake pedal down deeply when stationary.
On the suspension, you can play around with settings, including setting up an “Individual” mode. To avoid the sloppiness/skipping you refer to when pushing on through the corners on uneven roads, set the dampers to Sports+. This engages the engine mounts at their most dynamic setting. It’s a subtle difference but noticeable. I personally then set the throttle response to Sports which is less frantic. To reduce ride harshness, Porsche allow a “comfort” setting for tyre inflation, being 2.1 bar instead of the standard 2.4 bar. This is far more suitable for bumpy British B roads.
So with 2.1 bar tyre inflation, and PADM dialled up to max, I think you might have been pleasantly surprised. Next time…
No a helper Spring is softer and is normaly totaly compressed. She will only work when car is lifting and it will help to keep the wheel on the ground as it will be faster than normal spring.
Got my 986 S fettled by CG last year and I am very happy with it. Looking forward to a before and after driving review of the S2K. James, I have asked you this question before in the Live sessions, but I think it always gets lost in the noise: has your appreciation of car dynamics been enhanced by any advanced car control training? If so, which courses did you do and would recommend? I noticed a lot of course certificates in the customer room at CG...
hello, since I just watched this and noticed no replies, I highly recommend Porsche Experience Center as probably the best bang for your buck on learning car dynamics. $600 for 90 minutes of seat time in a new Cayman 4.0 or 992 S is silly cheap. You won't find something like that cheaper anywhere, I haven't.
Hi Jay, not sure if you'll see this because the video is a little old now, but full respect for the honest feedback about one of the best sports cars available. You tried the Boxster after the Cayman and gave both cars a fair go. Can't ask for more than that.
People should not be complaining about somebody else's opinion especially regarding the engine/exhaust sound and steering feel. These two factors have been going backwards after the brilliant 997/987 generation and has been well documented by many car journos. This is not Porsche's fault. We can blame government regulations for these things. The future electric cars will be even more muted and blunt again.
This review of the drab 4.0 makes his review of the Cayman R (“without peer”) all the more important and notable as the all time great of their mid engine platform.
...said the 987R guy 😂
@@sebastianfiedler2343 👀😂
@@sebastianfiedler2343 slight giveaway
10mpg off what I've got out of my 981S on multiple occasions, I reckon I could get 43-45 out of this ☺ I go full granny since I can actually hear the stereo that way. Edit: On long journeys only...
Love having an explainer video, very important I think. The handling/grip thing always amuses me- I drove an F13 M6 back to back with the Mk4 GS I had and the M6 has infinitely more grip, but the GS handles so, so much better. When I say to people that the M6 sounds poor, handles badly, has a cheap interior, awful ergonomics and is boring to drive...and they always respond with "V8 = sounds good, lap times = handling, German = good interior, 560hp = not boring" but none of that is true at all and it all comes down to explaining what the terminology means and why numbers don't equate to the experience.
Dammit James, Harry hyped this up for me and you're hyping it down. It's like the Ying and Yang. The 4.0 GTS is on my list but couldn't commit to my order this year so I got an F-Type SVR which I was hoping that when the time was right I'd put in my order for the GTS as the GT4 would be an impossibility for me (allocations). Now I'm 2nd guessing again. Hopefully Porsche will let me do a test drive to see if it's worth giving up my SVR.
What about checking/changing the tyre pressures? Recommended values are often too much for real roads..
I agree with you on your major gripes, Pirelli tyres are no where near as good as Michelin's to me. Porsche have an options list as long as your arm, I think tyre choice should be one of them. I don't think suspension setups with different ride modes do the cars any favours for UK or Irish roads, especially B roads where these cars are supposed to come alive. And steering feel is another one being lost when compared to older cars. I've a 997.2 Carrera which came highly optioned but with the standard suspension. And I am happier that it did over the PASM version as a result of what you mentioned above. I also have a 986 Boxster, I absolutely love the steering feel, weight and confidence it gives, I think I prefer it to the 997.2 being honest. Thanks JayEmm.
Been driving a 718 Cayman for the last 3 years and was quite happy with the steering feel for an electrically assisted system. Then i added a 1976 911s to the stable and "oh dear"! The feeling of a Momo prototipo wriggling around in your hand is just sensational.
Like you said James, it depends on what you last drove. I think Porsche should team up with Fanatec or Thrustmaster because lets face it, they are the world leaders in steering feel.
Good video buddy, keep em coming!
I used to think my E46 had amazing steering, then I drove something which really did.
@@JayEmmOnCars Glad I'm not the only one who wasn't impressed. It felt dull for a hydraulic rack (E46 M3). The Getrag 6 speed manual gearbox wasn't that great either. Rather clunky, even with the clutch delay valve eliminated and using the forum recommended fluids. Of course, everyone wants the manual because the SMG was terrible but that doesn't make that 6 speed a great box.
Great rant with high insight.Enjoying your reviews more and more.
Hi Jay! Great video. Niche question: did you notice any appreciable difference between the -20mm Cayman suspension and the -10mm Boxster suspension?
Assuming not because you said the Boxster was still too harsh in normal mode in this video, but still curious. Thanks!
Can't say I did
Sport mode throttle sharpness is just a bit of fun (test drive appeal) and not suited to fast driving.
If you use sport plus, or disable all aides, you’ll find you can only use the progressive pedal.
James, u never got around to comparing this to the 981 Boxster GTS you drove earlier. Your thoughts?
Re: Weight. EU regulations require manufacturers to post the weight of their cars based on the prior year’s most popular specification of options selected. Which means it’s not specific to the actual car. Which means the specified weight is for a car likely has power adjustable seats. PDK. And lack ceramic rotors. And other options. At least some of these specifications are quite different from the typical press car.
All fluids, and the fuel tank needs to be either entirely full, or some thing like 90% full.
I don’t remember the specs of the cayman, nor am I defending either set of figures, but these regulations do create quite a bit of room for disparity in figures.
Yes they do. Not that much disparity.
@@JayEmmOnCars I still think it’s possible. PDK is 75-80lbs. Ceramics are ~45lbs. Bucket seats ~35lbs. There’s 150lbs there. Less fuel could be 20-40lbs. Wheels and tires? Probably a wash but could be up to 5lbs a corner.
@@kylem324 Harry’s figure is definitely possible.
what would you get instead of the cayman gts ?
I am considering buying the Boxster GTS 4.0, thanks for detail review.
"Piece" is way better than "vlog", adds more class. (Thanks for using it)
Which website did you use to get the weights of the cars?