Porsche 718 Boxster GTS 2.5 vs GTS 4.0 - The surprising reason I couldn't live with the GTS 4.0 | 4K
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2024
- I picked up my Porsche 718 Boxster 2.5 GTS last year and absolutely love it but I get lots of comment about how much better a flat 6 Boxster is and that I should have bought the 4.0 GTS. In this video I put the two cars head to head and compare everything from sound to performance. After spending time with the 4.0 GTS do I regret my choice ? Turns out I couldn't live with the flat six GTS and you might be surprised at the reason !
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Video Contents
00:00 - You should have bought the 4.0 GTS Ped !
01:06 - What is the difference ?
03:52 - Rear end styling
05:35 - The Noise - Flat 4 vs Flat 6
08:43 - 0-60 Tests
11:52 - Interior differences
13:42 - Driving - Flat 4 vs Flat 6
19:35 - Why I can't live with the 4.0 GTS !
#PetrolPed #Automotive #Porsche718Boxster - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
There's another aspect to the 6 cylinder engine. Some people are complaining that it's a bit characterless below 4000rpm but I actually think this is a huge virtue. Below 4000, the engine is silky smooth and quiet so you can waft around in peace and harmony touring or watching the world flow by. It slinks around like a Bentley, soothing frayed nerves in a wash of tranquility. But...floor it and rev it and it comes alive howling like a banshee and screaming from apex to apex. So, this is actually two cars in one. A creamy tourer and slot car all in one. My brother has a Honda S2000 which requires thrashing and revving at all times. Rewarding in its own way but you finish a drive like a caffeine junky, sweating and shaking. It's so good to have a choice. The joy of six.
@johnwatt .. +1. Spot on, the nose! .. A brother also drives the high-revving RPM Honda S2000. .. Read "caffeine junky" drive character to otherwise an uber-sophisticated chassis.. . "Different strokes, for different folks" ... Cheers
You are so right. I thought I wanted an S2000, but it is so much better to have a car you can enjoy at any speed and RPM. With the Porsche 6 you get a nice sound and good torque plus the unhinged wail at the top.
Interesting comparison, I can’t say I agree that they both sound good. I had a cayman 2.5GTS, and now have a 718 GT4, the engine in the 2.5 is definitely effective, punchy at low speeds as you say, but very monotone and it never put a smile on my face like the flat 6 does. Also, the PDK 4.0 is said to do 0-60 in 4 seconds, the 4.5 second time is for the manual. It’s fine to defend the car you bought though and the cabin size comparison, that’s really interesting, not something you’d expect!
You beat me to it re: 0-60times.
The cabins are dimensionally the same, maybe seat spec.? 18 ways vs. 2 way sport seats plus?
@@simonm9923 must be something like that. Or perhaps the back is less upright? Always the top bit that hits the bulkhead when I go all the way back in mine
@@simonm9923 yep doubt they would have reengineered the structural bulkhead. The platform would have been designed for the 6. Not sure but might have needed crash testing certification.
I like my 718 cayman s but like you said, the sound just doesn’t put a smile on my face.
I'm over 6ft and own a 718 Boxster GTS 4.0. I have no issues with the cabin space and seating position.
That’s great. My height is in my legs and I just could get comfy 🤷♂️
@@PetrolPed Were the seats the same Ped, as in 2 way or 18 way? Someone commented on another forum that that may have had something to do with it.
I bought my 2018 718S Boxster 4 months ago. Always wanted one and saw mine at Porsche center south London and fell in love with it. Its heavily specked and probably paid over the top but it is a beautiful car. I had no idea how many people really dislike the 4 cylinder and like you say most of them have probably never driven one! I think mine has a great sound and with the UK roads as they are now I wouldn't want anything faster! Great review Pete.
The reason people often say the Porsche flat six doesn't sound like much until you get it up in the revs is due to the exhaust valve control settings. Even in sport or sport + mode with the exhaust valves "open" they will still close between something like 1-4 thousand revs. A $500 valve controller and 20 minutes solves that issue. Then you get that lovely noise even when going around town. The 4.5 seconds to 60 you are looking at is for the manual GTS 4.0. The PDK is .1 seconds quicker to 60 (stated) than the 2.5l model. The sounds difference is something that's completely personal and its frustrating to hear all the reviewers say it sounds like garbage. It certainly doesn't. The pops and crackles give it a character the 4l doesn't have. You have an absolutely lovely car. Im expecting a C GTS 4.0 in the summer so thank you for helping pass the time until then.
Should also be noted that you can't trust any numbers from any of the VW group's brands,
it's sort of an open secret they'll make the numbers fit whatever they're trying to achieve,
for instance the sporty Golf versions are on paper always quicker than their counterparts from the other brands (Seat & Skoda),
but when put to the test those counterparts perform as well or better. It's just that VW politics demands that the Golf must be quicker.
So they'll just tweak the numbers.
They do the same thing with horsepower numbers. I suspect the GTS 4.0 doesn't produce 400 hp but rather the same 420 as the Spyder.
They're using the same engine and I doubt their tuning's actually any different.
Instead the numbers on paper are tweaked so that the buyer has more of a justification to go for the Spyder.
I can speak from experience, my car is from a VW group brand and supposed to be a few milliseconds slower than the Golf model with the same engine. It isn't. It's actually faster than the Golf is on paper.
Hi mate great video! 718 Spyder owner here. The weights are wrong and so is the 0-60 for the GTS 4.0 PDK. The GTS 4.0 has a 7800 RPM redline. Cheers from Italy and keep up the good work!
Thank you for making this comparison. I own a 718 Boxster S. it has been a great little car! Having said that I have been looking to upgrade to 718 GTS 4.0, however, I can’t justify the price difference. There is no question that the GTS 4.0 is a better sounding engine. However, I don’t normally drive over 5000 RPM on my daily commute to enjoy the sound. If I did that, I would surely get many speeding tickets! Also, I think a 2.5-liter engine is an easier car to live with given its low-end torque characteristics. So, for now I’ll keep my 2.5 liter. Thanks again for taking the time to do the comparison!
The used 981 or 987 types are great if you can find a nice one for a decent price!
I prefer the 2.5 turbo. The low end torque means a lot. Don't like the sound, change the exhaust. Easy fix
Keep it. I have a 2022 4.0 and I find myself looking at Cayman S prices online.
Solution to that would be to buy a 981 GTS
@@jonnofziger4276 why is that? 😮
Great comparison 👍🏽 I never saw that last reason coming and it makes a lot of sense!
On getting cruise control retrofitted - something to bear in mind is that if you're doing longer motorway runs, then the cruise control doesn't utilise the car's "coasting" function well, which can result in notably worse fuel economy on long runs. I have cruise in my 981 Cayman GTS, but rarely use cruise on the motorway for this reason. (Apart from avg speed zones)
I appreciate that these obviously aren't the kinds of cars we buy for fuel economy! But every little helps 😊
i just rented and enjoyed a Porsche Boxster 718 S, Flat 4, 350 HP, 2023 model in PorschePlatz Stuttgart 2 weeks ago and I loved the experience driving about the winding hill roads of the Black Forest region. The engine tune and exhaust sounds rorty and nice. Anyway I enjoyed it.
mate... what a thorough and fantastic comparison video... i was dead sure i wanted the 4.0, now you're tempting me to look out for the 2.5
Thanks for excellent review. Did try them both and (being 6.1) kind of spotted the feeling of different driving position. I completely agree on the verdict - to me flat four simply offered more fun in a broader rpm range. More videos please.
Sir Pete this was a great video! Was very cool to see you be faced with a car you could of picked and to understand why you had chosen the one ya did. I think ya made the right choice. Very well done review!
Great review! I have the GTS 4.0 Cayman, and I love it for all the reasons you said (even though you prefer your 2.5 Boxster!). Something you didn't really touch on is the handling - I guess because it is just sublime in both cars - but I wondered if you noticed much difference in the corners with the extra weight of the 4.0? It was a fascinating conclusion you came to - something that would never have occurred to me as a shorter man! Surely Porsche have a solution to the size issue? Something I really like about your videos is that you're always looking for the good even in the things you don't prefer - the tone is always very positive. Also the fact you come across as humble and very grateful you get to do this. Thank you.
Fascinating comparison video Pete 👍 Especially comparing the weights and interior space. No one comments on weight between these cars but as you say, it can really make a difference to how a car feels & drives. Also driving on torque is very different. Much more accessible. Although I suspect the 4.0 would feel better with lower gear ratios. Did you notice any difference in responsiveness between NA and turbo? Would have expected a bit of lag somewhere on the 2.5.
Very insightful video PP, especially on the weight and the legroom (which I don’t think I’ve heard from anyone before!).
Brilliant Video showing the comparison between the two versions was very surprised on how one was smaller on the inside but when you explained made perfect sense.
There is no reduced space, all 718 Boxster interior dimensions are identical. Different seat specifications and adjustments (eg backrest angle) can lead to perception of reduced legroom. It is not a 4cyl vs. 6 cyl issue.
Great review, for enjoying B roads I think the 981 GTS might be the one to have. Better gearing and sound. Would be great to compare the 4.0 to the 3.4 👍
What a great and informative review. I have driven both cars and could not agree more. Enjoy your car. Its beautiful.
Thank you! 👍
An interesting comparison and a discovery that very few would think of…less cabin room! Now I am 5’9” so would fit and I have always loved six cylinder engines so would have only considered the 4.0 but, lighter weight and greater enjoyment mean a lot! I’m pleased you prefer yours…now without any lingering doubts! Well done Peter…this week I’m using my SL again after a week in Cornwall and I just find it’s creamy engine to be endlessly enjoyable…and the steering handling is a joy..but I’m comparing that with a Discovery Sport so not exactly unexpected! Stay safe, Richard😀😀😀
I have a BMW Z4 and made the mistake of buying without driving it first. I have the exact issue you mentioned with the leg room. I just can't get the seat far back enough so within an hour I end up with cramp and have to get out. I've had the car less than a year and already having to sell because it just takes the enjoyment out of using it. Your point about not buying something without driving is a very good one!
Great vid Pete...the thing I have learned about Porsche over the years....is they don't generally produce bad cars! My Cayman 718 GTS 4.0 has the OPF filters replaced with Akrapovic link pipes and a Cargraphic exhaust valve controller....best noise ever and the car is quick, very quick!!
Very true!
Excellent vid.A lot of work went into that one.Thank you.Really enjoyed watching.I am fairly tall,just over 6'2" and I have found some cars too cramped as well.There have been a few instances where I have been able to drive a car as an auto where I wouldn't have room for my knees as a manual.Vauxhall Corsa being one example.
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Thanks for the video Pete! I'm searching for my next Porsche and have narrowed in on the Cayman GTS. But I wasn't sure which one until your video. The interior space is the winner for me. After churning through countless other reviews yours was the only one to even bring that up, let alone actually measure it. Thanks!
Having done more research I found out the cabins are exactly the same size. It must have been the position of the seat. I did a second video on the subject 👍
I’ve been trying to look for a comparison between the two for a while and couldn’t find any that provided such good information. Direct comparison of engine sounds, 0-60 mph *without* launch control (since we rarely actually use it), and the seating position difference! What an unexpected surprise! I completely agree with you the 2.5 is portably better for daily drives, and one thing I do enjoy more of the smaller engine is exactly what you mentioned 6:29, the popping turbo exhaust noises.
I am blessed with shorter height (much less than 6 ft) so I’m happily enjoying the flat 6.
Thank you, Ped, for doing such an amazing comparison review! I definitely think you made the right choice for yourself.
My pleasure. I’ve looked into the cabin size and I was wrong. There isn’t a difference. Still not sure why they felt so different 🤷♂️
Great comparison between the two Ped. Very interesting comparing a two year difference. Both are absolutely incredible motor cars with plenty of power and the drivers area is brilliant Porsche build quality. Like you've said in previous videos, everyone is different and you buy what you can afford, the best withing your budget. I have to agree with you, there is not a £20k difference there that would push me to the newer model. It's crazy that after your full road tests and comparison that the decision would come down to the newer having less leg room! That's totally unexpected and I can imagine has affected alot of potential buyer decision... Overall comfort is the main priority, especially when spending that amount of money! Enjoy every second of pure motoring pleasure 👌🙏
Thanks Rod 🙏🏻
Great video and objective comparison. Owning a cayman 718 S, i was considering upgrading to a 991.2 S, tried recently a 992 GTS also...and honestly... yeah they sound great and look nice, but the overall perfs/driving feeling, not mentioning the ridiculous budget difference, make me love my 718 even more.
Of course that's a very personal feeling, but i agree when you say that price/pef/looks considered, the 718 is maybe the best sport car out there right now (seems the A110 is amazing too but i haven't tested it so can't really say ^^).
Nice work Pete! I recall when you picked up your car and when you added the new exhaust - giddy would describe it…so enjoy your beautiful car! That said, I’ve got a Boxster 25 and as you know it’s based on the GTS with the 4L flat six - I’m not going to claim it’s better, it’s just mine and it’s awesome! Which ever model you have, there is one common thread - there is no substitute! 😂
Great video! I have the same car as you. The silver 19 GTS. I think it sounds insane. I love the pops when you lift off the throttle. The same pops sound a bit muted in the flat 6.
The torque character is what makes me not want to get a 4.0 GTS.
2.5 makes peak torque at 1900 RPM
4.0 makes peak torque at 5500 RPM
That’s a lot of fun skipped driving on an ordinary trip to the tennis court.
Had no idea about the cabin being smaller. That’s made me certain I am in the right car! I frequently drive long distances. Cheers to our cars!
6’5”, really appreciate your reporting this discovery! And I’m actually surprised at how small the sound difference was b/n the two engines, I thought it would be more pronounced.
On further investigation it’s not the case. Cabin is the same. Still trying to find a reason for the difference 🤷♂️
This just reinforces how I feel about my 718 Cayman S. I almost bought a 981 GTS w the old 3.8 F6 and hated the lack of torque and the lack of character at lower rpms. I’ve got most of the same kit on mine as a GTS except the 18-way seats and Sport Chrono so the only thing I’d like to do now is get a Softech tune, a downpipe and go ham 😁
Good review. I started with a 987 cayman base manual and loved it. Moved to a 911 camera 2 997, awesome car, but couldn’t drive fast enough to enjoy the engine note. I traded it for a 981 base with pdk, 275 hp, so perfect held in 3rd on the b roads, always hearing that engine note. I tried the 718, amazing drive , but for me, the non s 981 is the most fun I ever had in a Porsche.
You make an interesting point about the legroom differences. I noticed a difference as well. Sometimes my left foot was off center on the clutch pedal in the GTS 4.0. I rarely, if ever experienced that with the Cayman S. It was not a comfortable feeling. I thought it was me. What you described could explain what I experienced also.
Fantastic, informative video. Im just about to take delivery of my 718 GTS 4.0 manual. I was very tempted with a 2.5 due to its flexibility , especially on UK roads. A track day at Porsche Silverstone won me over with the 4.0 and as we are about to wave goodbye to naturally aspirated engines, especially when coupled to a manual box that made my decision. Porsche kindly lent me a Boxster 2.0 with a PDK for the weekend, and to be honest that was still a brilliant, balanced and entertaining car to drive. In all their guises , modern Porsches are pretty hard to beat 😊
Enjoy the new wheels 👌👍
2:40 The weight difference it wrong. Porsche quotes the PDK GTS 4.0 at 1435 Kg and GTS 2.5 PDK at 1405Kg which make it about 30kg heavier. A couple of cylinders and less a turbo can't weigh over 121kg more, that doesn't make sense. Interesting comment about the leg room though. I wonder if the carbon bucket seats creates more legroom. Between the sport plus seat and the bucket seats the bucket seats always look like it has more room behind the seats, not sure if that'll translate to leg room.
I love your honesty in the review. You suppose something, put it to a test, then when surprised by the result you are not afraid to adjust your opinion. While on camera. Quite rare. You have my sub!
As you say surprising reason. Would not have expected that but makes sense. Always enjoy your reviews. Thanks Petrol Ped.
Funny you should mention gear ratios. When new MINI came out, my Dad was a delivery driver for the local dealer. When asked which one someone should buy, he said the normal Cooper but not the 'S'. The gears had been changed for the S to make the numbers look good on paper but had ruined it's drivability.
That’s insane. Mind blowing actually. I can’t believe I haven’t heard about a smaller cabin before now. Obviously it’s not advertised. Crazy. Thanks for sharing as this is significant. But for me, the extra $20K is also a deal breaker
On further investigation it’s not the case. Cabin is the same. Still trying to find a reason for the difference 🤷♂️
@@PetrolPed update the video when you find it. also try to put the seat slightly higher, maybe it hits something.
I have a Boxster GTS 4.0. My previous car was a 2006 Boxster S. I am 6'2". Took me a day to get adjusted and comfortable. Great cars! Love the one you're with.....
Very nice!
Excellent review, you saved the best for last too, well done for that.
I was sooo very close to getting a 4.0 after testing a 2.5. My choice was because I just loved that flat six.
I would have regretted it not realizing I’d be 2 inches more cramped, and I’m 6.2 so would have bummed me out.
It was the Covid thing that stopped my moving forward.
So I’m probably one of the few that felt Covid worked in my favor.
But, once more, great review, I’ve just subscribed after watching you “for free” all these years.
Keep it up and thank you for the effort and professionalism you put into your work.
Thanks 🙏🏻
Thanks Pete for a great video. The ending was a real 'Tales of the Unexpected'. How did the response of the engines compare i.e. did you notice turbo lag in yours when comparing them?
Don’t feel that much lag 👍
I'm actually amazed by the seating position difference. That is just something you'd never expect!
That’s because it doesn’t! Not a cabin dimensional difference anyway. Could be seat style, height , recline. Pete has committed to get to the bottom of it
Still need to get to the bottom of the issue 👍
@@simonm9923 I'm with you, I thought it had to be seats or something. Presumably they are both "the same". One doesn't have manual forwards backwards and the other electric etc.
@@PetrolPed have you found out any more? Do both cars have identical seats? Is one the electric 18 way sports plus and the other the electric 4 way sports plus? I.e. the 18 way one taking up more space with its motors?
@@carfleet6703 This ^ - admittedly, I "only" have a 981 Boxster S but.... when I was looking to buy mine the seats made a huge difference to leg-room! Thought I wanted the 18-way but, the cheap seats gave more room. At 6'3", this mattered!
Great video thank you very much for the detailed comparison which conclude exactly my thoughts. I’ve had the RS60 and 991S both flat 6 engines and currently I own a 2.5 GTS Cayman. Although at times, I miss the cruising, top end sound of the flat six,…I for sure do not miss not having the low end torque that I expected of those cars. I much rather prefer my Cayman GTS 2.5 for 90% driving characteristics that I do in town for all the reasons you mentioned. I also have a Dinan M4 (an Etron S and Model S) but after driving this mid engine joy it is by far the car I’ve enjoyed driving the most.
Brilliant appraisal, and who knew it would be a design change that meant you could not have a 4.0........ but you made the right choice with your car, accidentally or not.
That was an awesome comparison! Thank you! I just picked up a 2.5 GTS and I fit! If I went with the 4.0 I would not!
I was actually mistaken. There is no difference in cabin size. It must have been a seat position issue but never got to the bottom of it 😬
@@PetrolPed hey, did you have same seats 2way vs 18way?
Brilliant vid (as always) and fascinating comparison and yes, the flat six is now a no for me too then as I just don’t have the lef room!
Hi Pete. Very interesting comparison. As a poor man I purchased my little 1998 986 2.5 a decade ago. (1270kg) (Cash at R140k or ~7000 pounds). Used always as a daily driver and my amateur track cars for me and my boys, it was always a great car although cramped. I'm 6'1"and I checked your legroom comparison. Shocked to note that my seat distance is only 52cm. 10cm or 4" shorter than yours. Incredible to notice how the Boxster just grew over the decades. Today, I'm retired, it has ~150k miles, still love it. It is still immaculate and I found it extremely tough/bullet proof, fairly cheap to maintain and manage 90% all by myself. Great video. Envy your car. Love from S Africa.
Fantastic video, you’ve absolutely nailed it.I’ve had a base 718 and now GT4 and they are obviously very different cars but the base was way more comfortable than the GT4.
The 2.0 and 2.5 are fantastic engines and allow you to really engage with the car because as per the test they make lots more low down torque.
4.0 def sound so much better but again the 2.0 and 2.5 sound great.
I thought I needed the pinnacle GT4 but in reality now I’ve had both I’d say the 2.0 or 2.5 is the better car to live with anyday.👍
I own a Spyder. The ride is just fine and then handling is other worldly. Plus it’s automotive art
It’s great to compare the cars literally side by side. 👍🇬🇧
👍
Sir, for some odd reason, I’ve never bumped into your channel until today. Absolutely love the content and delivery. And that FACE you make when you listen to the exhaust noises. Only a true petrol head would get it! 😅
Welcome aboard!
Brilliant review, great content and very interesting indeed. Very well done PP
Thank you kindly!
Great review and the seat issue is not something I would have thought of!
There is no reduced space, all 718 Boxster interior dimensions are identical. Different seat specifications and adjustments (eg backrest angle) can lead to perception of reduced legroom. It is not a 4cyl vs. 6 cyl issue.
I really preferred the 2.5L in autocross to the flat 6. The 6 felt heavier and less agile. The variable vane and high compression make the engine plenty powerful and remarkably responsive. I'd pick the 4 for daily and autocross and be happy as a clam it's a great total package.
Thanks for this. I have a 2019 718 Boxster and I have lusted after a GTS 4.0. However, with all the reviews I’ve read and seen, no one has ever mentioned the legroom change and my partner is your height with long legs and less room is a deal breaker. The 718 is fantastic and it wasn’t purchased as an investment but as a driver. Easter Sunday I drove it 1700 kilometres and could still walk. I’m 65 years old so I think that’s saying something about how great the car is. Thanks again for a wonderful review/comparison. JKF from Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada 🇨🇦
I was wrong about the cabin size. I’ve done more research and they are the same. Must have been a seat issue 👍
So great to see the stomp comparisons. Makes me happy about my choice :) loved my 19. 24 is 2 weeks out :)
People forget that the 981 range was widely criticized for lacking in torque (prior to the GT4), and the turbo four 718s solved that issue (despite sounding more like a Subaru). At 6'2"", my choice is clear. Great comparison review!
They don’t sound like Subarus. The engine architecture is different and exhaust system are routed to sound much better. You really think Porsche wouldn’t engineer the sound too?
I often think the engines probably have sufficient torque for the weight they need to lug, but the gearing is far too tall, they should have sorted the gear ratios out! Even since the 2.7 Boxster they could do about 75mph in 2nd gear which seems a bit pointless. I need to try a 718 though, I bet they are faster just about everywhere.
You've highlighted something that I've never heard before - I would have thought the seating positions would be exactly the same. Also, the significant extra weight of the 4 litre highlights the extra componentry needed, which in turn goes to the reduced space.
There is no reduced space, all 718 Boxster interior dimensions are identical. Different seat specifications and adjustments (eg backrest angle) can lead to perception of reduced legroom. It is not a 4cyl vs. 6 cyl issue
He’s muddled up DIN and EC weights. The GTS 4.0 is either 30kg heavier or 21kg lighter depending upon which standard you use.
my 2017 Boxster S, pdk, goes round and round very well. "23.07.2017 Nordschleife 718 Boxster S, 8.29 BtG" 242 laps, no crash.
Evening Pete, hope you're enjoying a few days Skiing. Well that 1 surprised me for sure, however you mentioned what I had often thought the difference between the 2 would be for sure from a driven point of view. The 2.5 for everyday use would be your choice. With the Cayman, I guess that you have a bit more room behind you as against the Boxster. Hence not noticing it at all. 👍👍
Really awesome video Pete, as a huge boxster fan it was great seeing a side by side comparison. My pick would be a 981 2.7 manual at £25k. I did test drive the 718 base model in PDK and loved it, and completely agree with you that the light weight and low end torque is awesome on normal UK roads. I tell you what though it’s hard to ignore a 987 2.7 manual for under £10k, a lot of car for the money. I plan to make videos on a 986 boxster S and 987 Boxster manuals this year both purchased for under 6K, so keep your eyes open on my channel. Thanks again loved the video and appreciate the time it must have taken to put together.
The 987 2.7 is so much more expensive in the USA. You guys have it good.
@@5Minuteman Interesting, how much more expensive, same in Germany im told as well.
@@thedrivebygg 987 2.7L go for 20-28k usd
@@5Minuteman anyone know how much it costs to export a car, im guessing not much change out of 10K?
@@thedrivebygg good Q! I do not know but maybe we need to start a business 🤣
Interesting vid, in my 4.0 litre I’ve fitted seat lift brackets which have made it comfortable for my long legs also the zero to sixty time of 4.5s I believe is based on the manual box
I thought the manual was 4.3s and the PDK was like 3.7s with launch control.
Is that on sports seats Roger (eg not buckets) ?
@@th3b0untyhunter yes sports seats, also available for buckets
@@RogerBaileyOnCars Hi - which brackets are you using?
2023 718 Cayman S here. Your estate in the background is really lovely and more enviable than even the car
So, just watched the video. Just going to identify some factual inaccuracies. The engine is the GTS4.0 was derived from the latest 911. As mentioned in my previous message, they took the 3l twin turbo from the 911, removed the turbos, bored and stroked to 4l and stuck behind the Boxster / Cayman seats. Where the review is wrong is the suggestion that the GTS4.0 and GT4 is a different engine. It is not. It is exactly the same engine and exactly the same gearbox. The only difference is that the GTS4 has redline reduced from 8000rpm to 7,800rpm. That took circa 15-20BHP away which everyone has said is not really detectable by normal people. The only clearly different thing in the GT4 over the GTS4 is the suspension. Looking at Porsche UK tech spec for GTS4 Manual - 1405kg and the PDK is 1435kg. The 2.5T PDK is 1443 (from Porsche China site where the 2.5 is still available). Please note that when checking weights always check from the manufacturer's own tech sheets - which I have here). So, rather than being heavier, the GTS4 is lighter that the 2.5T. Should you be surprised - no, the Turbo assembly components were always going make it similar to the 6cyl block. If you are feeling it is heavier, it is either the very mild lag and lower rpm torque delivery of the turbo or auto suggestion having read the incorrect figures. Speed and accel - the marketed figures state the GTS4 PDK is 3.9-4 for 0-62. The manual is 4.4-4.5 0-62. This is faster than the 2.5T but frankly, if we are talking these differences we are focusing on something that isn't really discernible. What's more, Porsche are well known for under rating BHP / Torque and acceleration of their cars. Looking at delivery - again, the gear thing again - so much talked about it by most people that haven't really spent time with both. The PDK gear ratios are identical between the 2.5T and GTS4.0. Check PDK specialist sites and Porsche's own PDK ratio PDFs for both cars. Re acceleration and gear ratios you are sensing the normal difference in delivery between NA and Turbo. The Turbo as a very tiny lag and then a kick, getting to max torque very quickly and then dropping off at the top end. This means that it feels and sounds more torquey and faster but the figures show it's wrong. The NA is really linear / progressive and doesn't have that initial kick but unlike the 3.4s, the GTS4 has 80% of max torque from 2,500-3,000 rpm and it increases to max by just over 7,000 rpm. It is smooth and linear which is very easy control / balance and that is why most sports car drivers prefer it. The 3.4s torque took far longer to ramp up. This is why the manual feels so special with the GTS4 because there is no lag at all (I know the 2.5T has very little lag for a Turbo as most modern Turbo cars do) and there is no kick down delay that you get with the PDK. Because there is so much torque from 2,500 you do get loads of fun, event before 4-5000rpm and as the valves open up to 2000rpm and then from 4000rpm, you get a lot with that angry exhaust note. I'm guessing the after market 2.5T one Ped has has different valve setup - but again, all Turbo 4s have loud exhaust - some like it. I used to love the Scooby exhaust / engine sound unlike many and don't dislike the 2.5T, but it isn't the supercar NA sound of the GTS4. As I said previously, it is also nothing like the 3.4s which was like a banshee). What else? Well - the seat space. I'm fairly certain this is a misconception that is probably down to seat types. I might be wrong, but I don't believe Porsche changed the engine bay / bulkhead is different between the 2.5T to GTS4. If the Porsche UK GTS4 was the same as they usually are, it would have had the 18way seats (mine does). These are bigger than several of the other seat options and certainly doesn't go quite as low - perhaps it also has less max space in front of it. Measure that actual firewall to bulkhead to see if there is actually a difference. Hopefully you can see I've not given any subjective thoughts here - just clarified points and correct some incorrect 'facts'. I do have my own thoughts and they should not be taken as points of fact - just my perceptions. The GTS4 manual feels more like a composed, pure, large engined supercar. It isn't really measurably faster but as a controllable (progressing and predictable on the edge) car it feels very close to perfect to me. The 2.5T may feel more exciting if that is what you've mostly driven and if you are focused on very short stretches of straight road between corners but if you get used to the GTS4.0, I think you may start to feel more part of the machine and that then becomes very exciting. Time spent driven in many different situations is required to really decide what you prefer. As mentioned, the gearing thing isn't an issue for most with the GTS4 and is no different from the 2.5T when looking at PDK - it just feels different. With so much Torque delivered so linearly from 2-2.500rpm, the manual feels and sounds great well below licence losing speeds. I ran it in for 2000 miles keeping it below 4000rpm and had loads of fun. What would I have if I had the choice again today - the GTS4 everyday of the week. Again, that's me, not anyone else. I would also so, my thoughts are far from unique. Most reviews from well regarded reviewers place it well ahead from the 2.5T GTS as a driving and sensory experience. That still doesn't mean it's better or worse, but it should suggest to people that they need to spend weeks driving each (very hard to do unless you've had both) driving in all different conditions to make a decision - and also, please, check facts and ignore subjective stuff until you've checked properly for yourselves.
The review no one else has done, and very well done too 👏🏻 I did of course know the conclusion and it's still baffling as they have the same seats. Let me know what porsche say. On the weight Harry Metcalf weighed the 4.0 at 1,280 kilos. He was so shocked he did it twice to check and had a full tank of fuel. As others have pointed out 4.5 to 60 is for the manual. Having driven the 4.0 man and PDK, only a few days apart, I can honestly say the manual felt quicker, by quite some margin. Very odd I know! Probably my brain playing tricks and my in-built manual preference. When driving the PDK I also think using the stick is much nicer than the paddles, the stick feels more mechanical and again, probably my brain playing tricks, but it felt like the shifts were more punchy. Try it and see? I also much preferred the 4.0 to my 981 spyder, better riding, quicker and not as obnoxious on the exhaust. I was so impressed I ordered one, as you know. I would also have no problem with a 2.5. The Boxster is an amazing car in any guise, I've had 3 and they are just about the best sportscar at any price.
Hi ! Guess the 4.0 718 was to you a better overall then the 2.5 . Like more alive ..
@@georgepotcovaru2595 I actually haven't driven a 2.5. I was comparing manual & PDK 4.0 and 718 and 981 manual Spyder. There is no wrong answer with a Boxster, they are all amazing cars, I have just bought my 4th .
Makes me miss my old 981 Cayman - even the engine in that sounded fabulous and because it was just the 2.7 you could really rev it out. Manual too with sports plus...fab car. The 2.5 flat four sounds just like a flat four - monotonal and dull but certainly effective!
At least you didn’t say it sounded like a Subaru…
@@drbobs8267
I think its a compliment to compare it to the gorgeous Subaru sound. First thing I thought when I heard it w/o seeing it was that someone fires up his aircooled beetle with sports exhaust. I was surprised seeing a Boxster instead in front of my house. Love that sound of the past🥰
Great test, both cars are awesome but on sound alone I would pick the flat 6. Porsche has been building those engines for a very long time and the guttural roar of that engine is legendary. Imagine if a 911 was to be spec'd with a turbo 4 cylinder, I think a lot of people would pass on that option. Normally aspirated engines also last longer and are more reliable in my experience. The driving characteristics may be comparable and I'm happy that you enjoy your car better and it's a good bang for your buck . I am just used to the sound and feel of a 911 maybe. Thanks for sharing! :)
Very interesting Pedro. Just goes to show, no matter what the car is the driver has to be comfortable. Couldn't agree more. Cheers
Any Boxster is awesome excluding Tiptronic ! The more money you spend the more smiles. 4 litre manual is always first choice if you can afford it ! ❤
The GTS 4.0 0-60 of 4.5 is for the manual 👍🏻.... I had the 4.0 and loved it.
Great video and great to see the comparison between the two cars - I'm very much surprised though that the interior space is different in the 4.0 - I have one, although I'm just under 6 ft did a 4000 mile european tour last year in it and had no issues with comfort.
I do also wish the gearing was shorter for the sake of fun, and GPF equipped cars don't do the pops/bangs, but as a road car it's spectacular. Surprisingly economical too!
Thanks for watching!
Can't beat a 6 cycl boxster engine. Had two and I really miss them. Such a joy to drive.
Check out the top of the seats in the seating comparison. The seat in the 2.5 is about 3” higher than in the 4.0. I believe that with the lower seat in the 4.0, the backrest will contact the ledge behind earlier and mean the seat can’t go as far back. With them set at the same height, I’m sure the legroom would be the same.
I tried to get them set up the same and just couldn’t 🤷♂️
It’s worth seeing if there’s any difference with the steering wheel mounting too? I had a cramped problem on a Jaguar V12 24:44 XJS - Convertible where the early cars steering-wheel slid in and out, but later cars only moved up & down. I’m over 6’ & long arms so I was fine in the 1988 car but a 1993 car was awfully cramped.
Because of my height there are many cars I can’t get comfortable in.
If you get pain in your hip joint this can be fixed by putting a cushion into the driving seat to lift your hips slightly. I’ve had this problem on a few Ferrari’s. Any early cars with bucket seats will pinch hip joints! On a test drive it might not be noticeable, but on a long drive the pain becomes unbearable. On six Ferrari’s I’ve had to alter the seats in someway. My current Ferrari is older than my previous car but has a better seat! At 76, I’m less into performance but enjoy the ride & driving, of a 1988 Mondial 3.2, a very under-rated car with a comfy seat!
Great video, thanks! I’m 6’6 and I’ve got a 4.0 arriving in April. Were they the 18 way adjustable seats? I fit comfortably with the standard seats, but not the 18 way.
No. Both cars had the standard seats 👍
Honest great review, and balanced. Well done. And yes that was a surprised ending, interesting and thought provoking.
There is no reduced space, all 718 Boxster interior dimensions are identical. Different seat specifications and adjustments (eg backrest angle) can lead to perception of reduced legroom. It is not a 4cyl vs. 6 cyl issue.
I've got the 4.0 GTS. Happy as a clam . I love the thing. Mine is dolomite silver too. Great, subtle blue in the paint. I've got a blue top and interior and the combination makes me smile to look at it. I like your grills. I'll see if I can add them to mine. I'll see if I can add them along with the JCR intermediate pipes.
It's all down to personal choice, I had a 981 2.7 base with PSE, that didn't have as much grunt but it sounded unbelievable. I had driven both the 2.0 and 2.5 718's and for me the sound was just not somethin I could live with, being a short legged driver, the 4.0 does it for me, also my friends don't complain that my car is too noisy now 🤣 I find it hard to believe the bulkhead is different, that really wouldn't make comercial sense, are the seats the same in both cars? 18 way, 14 way etc. It looks from the video that you had the 4.0 seat much lower which might affect the movement.
This to just turned out to be an expose on why the GTS 4.0 is better for the mass majority 😅 Thanks for the comparison. Porsche did well with this upgrade to the 718 GTS, not surprisingly
Ouitstanding and honest review. Thank you for the great work.
My pleasure 👍
Brilliant video! Helped me decide 😊
Glad I could help!
no contest. flat 6 with a manual gearbox - heaven on earth!
unless you are too tall to fit in the car right ... solution 911
that's the best combo....and I bought it😂
The Spyder is literally automotive art. It’s the most beautiful Porsche made today. Better than the Boxster GTS
I agree the Spyder is the car to have, but it’s another step up from the GTS 4.0. I think it’s a lot to do with budget and weighing up what you can can live with. If you have the budget why not get a Spyder or the softer driving GTS. Neither have the 4 cylinder turbo engine . Times are changing and it won’t be long before the combustion engine is a thing of the past, that’s a certainty.
@@CherhillI have the 981 Spyder and all of them, 987, 718 will hold value much better because only 2500 of each model were made.
@@Cherhill yes. I did get the Spyder. It’s amazing
I loved the dual rear tip exit, was GT3 like...so I got a soul performance cat back with sport muffler and life is better now. Torque and sound in a 2.5. and amazing mpg on the highway🎉
Another good video. You present well, in a professional friendly manner 👍
Thank you very much 👍
Interesting. As a tall driver myself, 6ft4, I know the importance of the seating position, this actually has to be a determining factor in choosing a car. It does limit some of my choices but there's nothing worse than spending hours on the road with a painful back.
I agree 👍
I feel your pain…..😅 I am having to sell my 2003 986s as I’m 6ft 2” and due to periodic ,severe back pain and waiting for lumbar decompression surgery, I can’t enjoy driving it for more than about 30 minutes at a time. 😢 it’s a small cabin space compared to more modern Boxsters. I’m going to test drive 981’s and 718’s as the driving experience is difficult to give up completely 😊
I write this with bias as a big fan of flat six BoxEngine, however the flat four BoxEngine is intrinsically Porsche. The flat four delivers and will present a challenge to most flat six naturally aspirated engines, including the 911s. I still prefer the flat six and the naturally aspirated manual gear Porsche. Excellent comparison Pete!
Interesting comment about the leg room between the two cars something that I would not have thought of- I like the Mazda MX5 but doubt I could live with it as at 6.2 it feels cramped. I agree with you that both cars are brilliant and I would very much like another Boxster if only I could afford it
I’m the original owner of a 986 Boxster S. The best upgrade I ever made to the car was switching to GT3 bucket seats - they gave me a lot more headroom and legroom and made the car truly a great fit for me. (I also installed GT3 console delete and that helped with lateral legroom.) I’d be curious to see if bucket seats would improve the GTS 4.0 similarly.
I’m sure they would 👍
Pete. Great video as always but regarding the cabin size I really can't see Porsche introducing new tooling just for the BGTS4.0. Did the 4.0 have 18 way seats? This is the only thing I can think of. The extra electrics and motors do reduce how low you can put the seat in the 18 way, just wondering if it also limits the travel fore and aft? Re the steering wheel, you have the standard wheel whereas the 4.0 has the multifunction wheel which is also heated. As a side note, the engine and gearbox in the 4.0 GTS is the same as the Spyder and GT4 but with different engine mapping which reduces the red line to 7800 rather than the 8 of the GT4.
They both had the same seats. Just couldn’t figure it out. That was the only conclusion I could come to 🤷♂️
Brilliant comparison and video......Whilst I've only ever had 6 cylinder NA Porsche's I was never one of these that seemed to adopt a default "4 cylinder is sacrilege" position..which seemed to be common place with a lot of groups / clubs I'm in when the 718's were launched. (Who knew about the interior size difference by the way !!!)
The GTS you have will certainly be on the list when i come to change the 981. Ideally it would be the Spyder but their prices are just mental.
For the moment I'll still with the 981 as Spring is nearly here and cant wait to take the covers off !!
Well I didn’t expect that. Makes perfect sense though. The result, that aside, is as I expected and as I think I commented before the review. The 2.5 feels more nimble, and the torque of the turbo will always be more impressive lower down. Both cars are superb. I don’t think in the 4.0 they have captured the full flat 6 sound that my 981 has in spades, owing to regulations, though again no doubt the 4.0 is technically better than the 3.4. Top class review again though. 👍
I will never be in the market for a Porsche but you made that a very interesting and enjoyable comparison.
Great review Peter. I’ve had a similar experience with my Audi S3 8V. When I was in the market for one, I tried out the A3 hatchback of a friend. As a tall driver myself I fit in fine. I knew I wanted an S3 Saloon, because I liked the looks of it better. But when I testdrove the saloon, I thought the seats were not able to get to their lowest position. As it turned out, the roofline of the saloon is also (for me) significantly lower which results in far less headroom. Did buy the car anyway because I loved it so much, but headroom wise I should have bought the hatch. 😅
I prefer your setup. Yours has a nicer exhaust note. I like the black top too, and you probably get better gas mileage. The tiny difference in acceleration off the line doesn't matter to me. Also, lighter is better.
PS: plus the savings of £20,000!!
Indeed 👍
Just a quick FYI, there's a few inaccuracies in this. The engines are the same between GTS 4.0, GT4 and Spyder, the weight stats you quoted aren't correct - you quoted the minimum AND manual weight figures for the GTS 2.5 PDK (i.e. weight saving options, carbon buckets, etc.), and the GTS 4.0 PDK figure was way, way out - the difference between the two PDK cars would have been closer to 30kg, not 121kg. The rear diffuser of the GTS 4.0 isn't the same as the Spyder, the Spyder shares it's rear diffuser with the GT4 though. And as others have mentioned, Porsche quotes the GTS 4.0 PDK 0-60 at 4 seconds, but it has been tested at well below 4 by other journalists. Otherwise, great vid - the leg length issue was a big surprise!
I read several articles about the engine that state something different 🤷♂️
Being a tall driver myself ar 6’5”, I really appreciate this video! This is great insight and too few sources address this. Keep it up!
There is no reduced space, all 718 Boxster interior dimensions are identical. Different seat specifications and adjustments (eg backrest angle) can lead to perception of reduced legroom. It is not a 4cyl vs. 6 cyl issue.
I'm 185 cm (about 6'1") and a big guy. I have no issues fitting in the car (Boxster 25). And someone else says here, according to me the dimensions are identical. I had a 981 and no issues fitting in that one either. My wife actually feels she has more room in this one than the previous one. But, as Simon says, more due to the adjustment of the backrest angle...
Really enjoyed this video, as an F Type owner I couldn’t help but think about the constant debate! Between the 4 pot & V6/V8. Your video makes a perfect point, same amazing car just different characteristics. Thanks for sharing 👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
Interesting comparison! First thing to get out of the way is that there isn't 140kg between the two, but to be fair I can't find a definitive figure either. The lowest I have seen is 8Kg. Autocar said there was 60Kg between then. Remember the 4cyl has turbos, cross pipes, intercoolers etc. to offset that smaller block.
On the most important points, I am aligned with your assessment. I have 4.0 Manual and compared it with 2.5S PDK. I thought the 2.5 was faster than mine, certainly felt it. There's a linearity to the 4.0l that belies it's pace. The 2.5 is pizzaz and zip. It had a bit of lag, then real midrange punch that feels 'wow', then it gets a bit 'rung out' above 6500rpm compared with 4.0l. The 4.0l has no pops and bangs on the over-run however. So it's however you like your poison!
For me it's the velvet sound of the 4.0l that I love, but if I didn't fit (I had no idea the cabin was shorter), I'd have no issue with the 4 pot. Keep up the good videos Mate!
I struggle to get the weights from the same source and turns out it was wrong 😬😂
Ever since the 4.0 engine appeared, we've been waiting for a review like this: An objective look at the cars without any preconceptions. I am not sure about your weight figures - there should only be about 40kg between these cars - but otherwise I think you've treated them fairly. Surprised to see the Boxster lost some cabin space but at 5'10" I'd not have noticed it.
The 4-pots got a lot of stick when they first appeared but a lot of it was people simply being unwilling to accept change. I had a Cayman T which I loved, with the 2.0 turbo instead of the 2.5, but a lot of the plus points are the same: low down easily accessible torque and decent power, with the advantage you are never really in the wrong gear as there's always 'oomph' on tap. Engine note was aggressive and the only thing it lacked being an OPF-fitted car, was the crackles on overrun.
I did trade it for a Cayman GTS 4.0 however because for me the linear power delivery was preferable, and I wanted to spec some things I skipped the first time around. The flat 6 is even better with an aftermarket backbox; BC Fabrications make a good valved system which restores most of the theatrics and shaves 10 kilos of weight off in the process.
To be honest neither car needs to go beyond 3rd gear on a B-road blast and that does mean you can rev them both out, or choose higher gears and cruise. Both 4.0 and 2.5 are fantastic cars, and so long as people pick the right one for them, rather than listen to "the herd" they will be getting a fantastic sports car.
I made two mistakes. You are right about the weight figure. Not sure how I got that wrong 🤷♂️
Also on further investigation the cabins are exactly the same. Still can’t explain my lack of space 🤔
Do you feel that it was worth the upgrade going from the 4 to 6 cylinder? Did it change your enjoyment with the car in everyday use? Especially with the new exhaust
@@GoldPlatedCheese For me the 6 is the nicer engine to drive with a manual shift, I find rev matching easier and throttle control more intuitive. The sound is tuneful, not quite as raw and aggressive as the 4 but at high revs the 4 doesnt have the same tuneful quality. The new exhaust just amplifies that character and allows you to really hear the engine note and not just drivetrain. And it still sounds sporty with valves closed - perfect for normal driving - but really comes alive with valves open as it gets some burbles and chatter but without the comical pops and bangs beloved of the boy racers. I did notice far more aftermarket options are available in this area for the 6 as its the GT4 engine. By comparison only a few good systems are availble for the 2.5 S/GTS.
None of this is to denigrate the 4 cylinder which I absolutely loved and had some great times in, and will always remember fondly. I am very glad I got the 6 cyclinder however.
Thank you for the comparison (not many back to back reviews out there) but I prefer the sound and the drive of my GTS 4.0… especially because it’s a manual transmission! Enjoy your car!
Good choice!
lots of interesting and knowledgable comments on this channel as usual - all because of the great content being created - as usual...was wondering if you had space issues in other convertibles...mx5 for example
MX5 is too tight for me sadly 😢