HOW TO MAKE V8 POWER FROM A (CHEAP) TURBO V6! THE L67 3800 V6 FINALLY GETS A CHEAP EBAY GT45 TURBO
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ค. 2024
- HOW WELL DOES A CHEAP, EBAY GT45 TURBO WORK ON A JUNKYARD V6? HOW CAN I MAKE 600 HP WITH A 3800 V6? HOW MUCH BOOST DOES IT TAKE TO MAKE 600 HP? HOW WELL DOES E85 WORK UNDER BOOST? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I FINALLY REMOVED THE M90 SUPERCHARGER FROM THE MODIFIED L67 3800 V6 AND REPLACED IT WITH A CHEAP, SINGLE GT45 TURBO? HOW WELL DID IT WORK? CHECK OUT THE RESULTS, AS I RAN A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT BOOST LEVELS FROM THE INTERCOOLED TURBO SYSTEM ON THE MODIFIED 3800. WE RAN UP NEAR 1 BAR (14.55 PSI TO BE EXACT), ALL WITHOUT CHECKING RING GAP! HOW MUCH POWER DID THE LITTLE V6 MAKE?
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Awesome gains! The 3800 is just getting started at 14-15psi. You may lose a head gasket with more power but with some head studs you can run them 24-28psi and really make some steam 🤟
Dude. How's your buick? I've been waiting for the new sleepers video for years
He lives..
Trying hard to get everything in place
THE LEGEND
The legend himself!!
Hardest working man on TH-cam !!!!
What I would like to see is a comparison between the 3800, I-6 4200, and the 4.3 All 6 cylinder engines from GM. Base, NA modified, supercharged, and turbo . What could be more fun in a GM 2000-2008 truck
Off ya go and do it then.
I'd love to see a 4200 swapped 4th gen camaro.
Just cut to the chase and use a 4.0L Barra from Ford Australia. Capable of huge horsepower.
@boingkster part of the point with a lot of this testing is seeing what kind of power ppl can make with junkyard engines. Most ppl aren't going through the headache and cost of importing something from Australia when something that can do the job for less money can be found in a local junkyard.
Turbos rule.
Rich is falling in love with the little Buick.
I can't understand why some posters are complaining about too much Buick 3800 testing. It's the little engine that could.
Those who've never really touched a 3800 really have a lot to say about them, but the guys who have, love em
Never enough Buick!! 3800 Buick..
If you don’t know what your doing they bite you in ass hard. But I think may be every boosted engine.
We had in our Holden Commodores over here in Aus (currently have a 91 Vp wagon running the buick 3800) so might start saving up to do this 🤔👌🏼
@@Ilovegirlfights2 for sure, but then you pull another one from the yard for 500 and try again. There's millions of them and everyone wants an LS.
Turbos are always a hands down winner for making big streetable horsepower. You can put a turbo on one of the old 3800 that were built in the mid 80's and they'll even make big numbers with a mild cam upgrade. Bad flowing heads be damned, just turn up the boost. Great job sir. Thanks.
I'm officially sold on the 3800 for my Fiero. Thanks another Great video. 👍
Very impressive! Cant wait for the big bang!!
Yey! Been waiting for this one! If you had the rwd intake on it it would be my combo in the garage right now!!!
Turbo always wins. Free power.
Great video Richard.
Thank you for the multiple color data lines again!
Everything deserves a turbo... awesome testing as always 👌 😊
great work, this is the kind of stuff I tune in for
Looking forward to the runs with na intakes under boost!
Prodigy is doing a lot of neat things with the 3.6 pentastar. I’m running 12# on my jeep, love to see you give one hell.
Specs? I am looking to add a turbo to my jeep.
Great comparison Richard
Greetings Richard, I want to start by thanking you for the important contribution you make to the motor world by sharing your knowledge and the tests you do. I would like to take the opportunity to make the recommendation that your videos could be translated into Spanish or at least add the option of subtitles in Spanish and thus the Latino community could benefit from your knowledge and at the same time you can expand your following to other markets
not sure how to do that
Amazing little engine. This makes me want to do something with my vs 3800 Holden ute.
What a well designed engine.
WOW! I had no idea those 3800's could hold so much power from the factory!! Impressive! It even has me thinking on a KILLER build lol
Street machine.
Sbe 3800 have been 700whp many times. Will probably lift a ring land on the engine dyno around 850-900. I've been well over 1000 with a forged rod/piston and the rest stock. Great engines. 👍
Would love to see the power of the twincharged combination vs the GT45 by itself at the same boost pressure!
My guess is the twin would have more tq at very low rpm, but less max power due to the belt load. Usually 50+hp from what I’ve read online.
You rock Richard! Makes me want to put a 3.8 into something.
Good information thanks
I liked the supercharged 3.8 before this, i like it even more now
The grandchild of the Buick grand national
That is pretty amazing but that little engine Would put out that kind of power and stay together with stock parts totally amazing I wonder if it would make 1000 hp with good parts
The stock block for the grand National V6 would hold up to about 650 HP.
There’s a bit of difference between the 3.8 in the grand National and this 3800 (the 3800 was produced from 1988 until it ended production in the 2000’s)
We’ll find out !
I think Richard plans on running till it blows up!
That small turbo he has on it won’t allow 1000 HP.
The series iii is supposed to have better rods. They are really similar to a gen4 LS style rod and that will probably be the limiting factor. I thought the series iii would give up at 900ftlbs of torque but the series ii not many people have tested to failure.
@@timothybayliss6680 I think the heads lift off the block and push gaskets between 6-800 hp.
@@Toys4Life i dont expect the factory gaskets or tty head bolts to work at that level. There is mls head gaskets and arp studs available. Richard used ls9 mls gaskets and arp hardware on the 1600hp 6.0l gen4 big bang. The stock heads might be too flimsy to hold the gaskets in though
All series 2 and 3 blocks have been over 700 wheel on sbe. M90 record rn is 500+ wheel, and the turbo 3800 record is 1211 wheel. These 3800's can make pretty damn good power with boost. Just a lot more fun in a rwd car instead of fwd lol
impressive numbers...….definitely a bang for the buck deal
Can't wait to see 3800 vs. 4200 Big Bang!
The last engine I pulled from the junkyard had the ring gap "pre-set" 😂
Lol
i like how it would sound without static
Would be interested in seeing the parasitic losses of both the blower and the turbo. That 3800 is quite the beast though... I might have to build a fiero with one of those some day
You should!
I rode in a Fiero with a super charged 3800 with a stage 2 Super Chip and a six speed manual transmission. It was scary fast.
That'd be 😧 crazy
You found a good use for all those cheap 3800 powered F bodies.
Wow... Those numbers are great. Id love to see a high feature NON direct injection 3.6 from a cts or malibu.
That’s nuts. Shaking hands with danger not doing ring gap.
danger is my middle name
Omg, super impressive numbers. Obviously a great choice for the camshaft for consistency on the power and torque curve. I'd really be interested to see what kind of torque curve you would have if you were able to use a longer (tuned port style) runner manifold. I'd definitely go with the turbo/s, all the way. I would also be interested on your thoughts, in your experience, what kind of differences in numbers if I was a 3.8L V8? 3.5" bore and 3" stroke, with the same cam set up.
Great work mate! been waiting for this one for a while as you know the l36/67 was popular here in oz keep it up, would be great to see that gt45 combo with a bit more cam or maybe Chuck on some high ratio Rockers btw I’m running an l36 with rear mounted gtx35/82r on pump98 with 9.4:1 comp and softened quench points even in summer heat I have no trouble running 18psi daily, but with good fuel and and reasonable air it gets rowdy at 20-25psi and pushes 1620kg down 1/4mile at 136mph
what timing do you run on 18 psi on 93?
Sorry for the late reply it’s 98 I’m running it’s about the same as 95 over there I hear, not sure what the timing is it’s just a Mail order mace l67memcal still running a maf but I use wide band and egt and crudely a high rising rate fmu so a Overkill fuel system is needed cramming 120psi through 42lb injectors and I mechanically adjust mixtures
If you see this I'd like to find out more about your setup. Cheers
I've been waiting for this also first
Can't wait to see you do the "Big Bang" build on this engine, Richard... especially with a 2.6" pulley on the Gen-V blower. Because I'd love to do such a combo with a remote-mount turbo (w/ATA IC) in a 4th-gen F-body! =;D
Look into the Mp extreme m90 case. It gets rid of the restrictive stock inlet found on gen 3 and 5 blowers while also boasting a huge outlet that makes these things move some air. These aftermarket cases will accept the traditional m90 snouts and rotor packs so its easy to adapt a used blower especially in a remote mounted blower/intercooler setup.
@Goblin Slayer You'd have an easier time locating the IRS mounting points on a '64 Falcon.
And, ftr: GM originally intended the 4th-gen F-bod to be FWD, like the Dodge Daytona & Plymouth Laser.... since those were selling so well, and everyone was following Mopar's suit, being as successful as it was. When problems packaging the 3.8L V-6/FWD power-train turned-up during development, and the letter writing campaign to Ford from Mustang fans halted production of a FWD Mustang, GM scrambled to repackage the 4th-gen as a RWD car with V-8 option.
@@madmod Good... now, tell me where I can find an inlet that faces the right way, s I don't need to notch or hammer the firewall?
@@pancudowny The same company that sells the magnum power case sells cast inlets that far exceed the stock m90. At the cost tho, youd probably be better off with a 3.5 inch aluminum tube and a 90mm tb attached at the end of it. That said, its a lot easier making an inlet for this case vs modifying a stock eaton blower and making due.
Hmm impressive! Nearly matching the Ford Barra on 98 ( 93 ) petrol , for power .
That’s why Buick did it in 1979 and kept evolving 1988 . Turbo power!
8:27 - exactly where my mind was too (about 2x the boost) - so that turbo helps efficiency cuz that's more than 2x the stock power
If I had my druthers, I'd get a twin screw rather than that Roots, and feed it w/ that GT45, along w/ ring gap, studs, etc....I'm sure that turbo can push more air than that engine can handle, so a twin screw would help squeeze it in....turbo would light faster cuz a twin screw effectively increases engine displacement so the turbo would like that
Please Richard, stop testing these motors. 3800’s have always flown under the radar as stupid cheap fun, you’ll drive the junkyard prices up! Haha
Agreed, but people are always gonna say there's no replacement for displacement. It's not also not a super revvy or sporty motor. But I love em
love to see this with a centrifigal supercharger like a rotrex vs the m90 - power & boost curves
see the other vids where I compared all the different forms
I love my 3800 regal gs even more now, but I do like the supercharger whine. Maybe turbo swap in its future...
It's sad to me that so many GNs end up with an LS instead of a 3800 ii or iii. The 3800 is the advancement of the GN 3.8 engine family and brings a lot of improvements... cross bolted mains, somewhat better oiling, slightly better heads, roller cam. Of course GM could have helped out by putting a decent bellhousing pattern on it instead of the stupid 60 degree v6 pattern.
im an old GTP guy and now own a grand national whose factory engine is long gone, im going to build a turbo 3800 for it instead of putting in the LS motor, I already have. Its just the correct thing to do. Still going to be turbo 3.8 liter v6, buick based, but done on a much more economical platform then the original grand national 3.8.
Most e85 turbo L67 with decent cam can pretty easily put 24deg in at 15psi. With a big cam and big turbo ive put in 30lb with 21deg to get over 1K pretty easily. Great engines.
You Sound Like The Guy To Ask This Question lol. Im Going Over Ring Gap. I Got A Set Of Diamond Forged Pistons With Ceramic Coated Tops. They Are The 8.0:1 Compression Ratio Pistons. I Bought Them Them Intense Racing And They Had .020" Ring Gap For Top Ring. At The Time I Thought Nothing Of It. Doing Research It Looks Like The Ring Gap Should Be Around .026" For Mild Boost 15-30PSI. I Wanna Make 500-600WHP. I Was Making 480WHP Around 16PSI Of Boost On Stock Ring Gap But That Was On 210,000 Mile Rings/Cylinder Bores. Should I Take It Apart And Gap Them To .026"? I Find It Really Dumb For Intense Racing To Be Listing A .020" Ring Gap On A Set Of Forged Pistons Which I Think Would Be Used For No Less Then Mild Boost lol.
Last Question On Cylinder Heads. I Got A Set Of Ported 3800 Cylinder Heads (the n/a versions). I Only Came Across One Thing That's Making Me Paranoid. 1 Head Had Smooth Intake Runners And 1 Has A Dip In All The Runners Where The Injector Would Go On The Supercharged Head. Here Is A Video
th-cam.com/users/shortsIQHczTzBYFg?feature=share
Should I Be Concerned? Or Am I Being Overly OCD? I Waited Nearly 2 Years For These Cylinder Heads And I'm Terrified Of How Long It Would Take To Get A Matching Set Of Ported Cylinder Heads.
I hope for a future vid that you show comparisons of power between the blower and turbo. I road in a GN Turbo Buick and I was surprised back then. As a V-8 lover, the little Turbo Buick was stunning. Too bad GM didn't work on the reliability of the engine as turbo failure was constant. I believe the turbo had a "DRY" center section
Nice to have a water cooled center section with plumbing for a convection loop.
Blame the GM bean counters for that.
And Richard just did a super VS turbo comparison... Thanks again Richard. Richard is awesome
Turned it into a Grand National engine
Thank you. I know some guys dig blowers, and they are OK, but taking power from one end of the crank, to add some to the other end, when the exhaust will do it for (almost) free, just does not do it for me. Viva la difference'
That's when the worked cylinder heads start to shine
I have an l67 sitting in my garage and a spare thousand bucks I’m totally doing this
Also there’s a man in aus running 10sec quarter miles in an nitrous L67 stock block just gapped rings and cometic gasket
It has 8.5 compression forged pistons as well.
Thanks for the video😉
So I might considder a GT45 in the place of my GT3582, actually pushing 407HP at the wheels.
You said the boost curve was pretty good? On the graphic, it seemed to jump up at 3500 to 4000rpm? (Probably would kill my Fiero's gearbox with this jump at each gear change.)
Thanks again for showing what can be done with a 3800👍🤘
Rock on!
I would love to see what a more modern intercooled 1.9L TVS supercharger would do on the 3800 V6. Also its best to have the supercharger blow into the turbo inlet in a compound setup. The blower creates way too much restriction when the turbo is blowing into it and you loose the multiplication factor of feeding a turbo a boosted charge. Maybe do a test and post the results.
blower feeding the turbo?
@@richardholdener1727 Yes, yesterday I watched a vid of a Whipple feeding a turbo on a Cummins powered rock crawler with great results.
Hey Richard I'm not trying to unvalidate your turbo tests ...but I have built a few 3800 motors and your not spinning the supercharger fast enough... one car I had built we made a tick under 16 pounds of boost with the factory supercharger would like to see you run the supercharger on it again just get a little more aggressive with your pully combo . And I would really like to see a North star engine because I don't think they are as weak as people think they are ...love your videos and keep up the good work
With the cams, head work, and very open exhaust, your not going to see the same boost pressure. All of those mods increase power while lowering boost pressure.
I ran a 2.6 pulley
That would been one fast Riviera
Do the 3.7 mustang engine it can make 600+ at the wheels on a sealed stock motor, would be very interesting to see what you could do with it, they are also pretty cheap which makes them possibly a better swap than an LS especially in chassis concerned with engine swap weight and chassis balance
Did you ever make a video comparing the long tube headers to the factory exhaust manifold headers at a high horsepower?
I think near 350 hp
@@richardholdener1727 Where's the video/what were the results?
There is just something with gm engines, a lot of them can definitely be modified.
I love your content Richard... but we both know that this same test need to be done to a honda j series .... any displacement... till parts come out of it .... please 😃
it really does-my buddy Jimmy has some turbo testing coming up in his J-swapped NSX
@@richardholdener1727 I'm sure going J-series would involve less pain to the wallet if anything failed vs the C30A/C32B engine.
remove the balance shaft and check how much HP it frees up
Why was a NA 3800 manifold not used? Love your stuff Richard. Also can't argue with more than double the power.
I am very confused about this as well. I plan on turbo charging my supercharged Buick regal, but I need to know if the upper and lower intake can handle that power.
Bet that’ll be a handful with FWD!
They where in rwd applications also 4 gen fbody
Imagine a Park Avenue with massive torque steer, lol.
What are the exact specs on the turbo used in this test? I have a L67 3800 rebuilt with upgraded rod bolts, main studs, head studs and MLS head gaskets waiting to go into a 63' mid engined Corvair...bag the SC, may need a turbo! Thanks Richard, great content!
Bro that hilarious isn’t that the older version of the cavaliers? I have a 1987 cavalier RS and wanna motor swap 😅
Lol if my Park avenue had this much power it would be a mess!
Richard how about all things equal comparison run; before and after ring gap! ! !
the change in ring gap did nothing to the power on the ls
Hey Richard, I spotted some LS Coils in one of your photos. I really would like to know how you got the Holley HP ECU to read the crank sensor on the 3800, because I want to use smart coils on my 3800 that I am building.
Could you do a comparison of a super coupe 3.8l and the L67 stock and then with mods?
😳 now I really wish I still had my 01 monte Carlo ss , question is would the F40 transmission would of worked?
Gee, Richard... given the manifold setup you employed, did you ever think of adding the blower inter-cooler as well? One wonders what it being twice-intercooled would result. =;)
#Twintercooled! copy right
I wanna see you mess with a toyota/lexus 3.5 v6 2grfe motor im sure youd have fun they can supposedly handle 800+hp on a turbo and completely stock
Impressive. Most impressive lol.
I'm curious as to how far it'll go with just the stock head bolts. I have never heard of anyone blowing a head because of the lack of head studs. The stock head bolts are very strong, and torqued really high. I can't really find any reason to use head studs on most builds I see. $100 spent for an M90 build seems like a waste of money in my opinion.
Yeah, M90's are a waste past about 10 psi boost. People should look only for 6th Gens if they want to run superchargers.
@@andyharman3022 I can't understand why there are so many M90 3800 guys with the mentality that more boost equals more power. With a turbo that would be true. Push the boost to high with an M90 3800 build and all your get is more bottom end, but sacrifice top end.
I've quite literally seen guys pushing 18psi with these, but they easily get beat by the guy only running 9psi.
Could you run a turbo and super both again but this time use a charge air cooler after the turbo, AND after the supercharger? With sensors between everything? I'd love to know how the temp goes up and down between the components
won't be doing compound again
Any Idea when you are going to do a big bang on this? What are your thoughts on the 3.5 ecoboost v6 potential? On e85 and much larger turbos of course, but stock internals.
Curious what these can do with turbo aftercooled on just premium pump gas
My buddy runs 27 psi on his grand prix... It's crazy fast
that would bring near 900 hp on this motor
More boost and an intercooler will do that...too bad that factory never had an intercooler on them
I had a 87 grand National with a totally stock long block, stock cam, stock heads with a TE44 turbo, large front mount IC, 3” DP, 3” exhaust, 104 octane chip, run at 23lb boost. With Sunoco 104 unleaded.
Very very fast.
I just wonder what Richard would estimate it made for power
481 at 5100 rpm 526 lbft ill bet
?
not very high with a stock cam and stock heads and stock intake
Check out Corn Fed Boost (also in the comments) as he has a rowdy 800hp+ version. #mangmangforever
Wow
👍💪
I have a series 3 with arp head studs . Guess what is going to happen to the blower ? Lol . The fiero will fly lol i have the same cam installed in it
THE BLOWER IS FOR SALE (WITH PULLEYS)
cool ! now twincharge it.
ALREADY DID-THAT VID IS UP
Richard, what's going on with the increasing dip in power at the bottom as the boost level increased?
Its turbo spool. A back up run with hotter exhaust would help that a lot but i dont think he was really all that worried about it. An engine dyno is tricky to test that but he has done at least one video showing what heat in the exhaust can do for a run.
'bout time
*4l65eHD* has left the chat
YEP
what did we learn?? i learned that somebody needs to make a bolt on gt45 kit for a car and then they need to take my money.
Would running a m90 through a front mount air to air and then through a throttle body work? I was thinking of mounting it on its side with a "hat" bolted on that's blowing to 3"(or would 3.5" be necessary?) intercooler piping, front mount and back up to the stock throttle body? I can't imagine it would be a very responsive engine if the throttle body is all the way on the other end of all that piping and supercharger.
not sure why you would do that
@@richardholdener1727 so it can be intercooled. No intake available for my engine either. Plus if I'm not happy with it I'm halfway there for the turbo setup. Only looking for 350hp reliable from a 4.5 liter v8(with no cam options to get there).
I guess really no different than a centrifugal with a front mount intercooler right?
Hey can you make a videos on the m276 v6 biturbo?
I've argued for years that you can double the HP without doubling the Atmospheric pressure, let me explain my reasoning.
At WOT there is still some degree of vacuum in the intake manifold, it varies depending on the throttle body and intake tract, but it's there, anywhere from 0.5 hg to 2.0 or there about, the difference from say 1.5 hg to 0 or 0.5 PSI is a level of "boost" not particularly impressive but the engine does react to this, in effect that's like 2 PSI of boost, now if we continue to 10 PSI, I would expect the results to be similar to 12 PSI Boost. Any thoughts on my reasoning?
achieving the formula is difficult, bettering the formula even more so
I would assume you're right that 14.7 psi in the manifold = 15-16 psi before the throttle body. This also has to do with volumetric efficiency at peak power. Some engines won't make double HP at 1 atm boost. That's why this combo was so good.
Think of the BMW 1.5 F1 engine in the 80s, it was making 1300-1500hp on 80psi, that's 5.44 atmospheres, 1500÷5.44 = 275hp, which we can all agree is an unattainable HP output for a NA 1.5l engine, I would guess max theoretical power for a 1.5 NA would be in the 180-200hp range based on the numbers attained by high-end streetbike engines.
Edit: I'm wrong, the 1441cc Kawasaki ZX14 made a claimed 207hp @13,200 rpm with only 12-1 compression on premium fuel. So on F-1 fuel with higher rpm and compression 275hp seems attainable.
@@T..C..M
HP and Torque are two different creatures, the F1 engine makes incredible HP numbers and the Torque will rise with the RPM but it's more like a light switch, on or off, but when she's on watch out. Now if you want to see some crazy boost the competition Diesels are over 10 atmospheres some close to 200 psi, blows my mind
@@goodmanboattransport3441 That makes for SPECTACULAR, explosive engine failures at times when they are competing.
No room for error at those crazy boost levels........
FINALLY
can you turn any Buick v6 into a grand national turbo engine I have a 3.8 Buick v6 in my 1984 old's.
Would a 3.7 jeep motor benefit from this turbo?
Would it spool ok. If so what flange t3 t4? What size housing and turbine/compressor wheel.
use a smaller turbo
Try a gt3582r or a 6262
I'd like to see what a turbo would do on a STOCK Series II 3800. (-:
if it makes 200 hp na-then it makes 400 hp at 14.7 psi with a turbo
@@richardholdener1727 I can live with that 😉👍
Hey Richard I have an idea, now here me out what if you put a vgt turbo on this motor or should I say multiple motors????
control strategy is complex
I've been trying to do my research so far what I found is vaccum control for the venturi's but I did also did a company that has a lever action vgt turbo when I remember which it is I will send it to you
Does anyone have a bullet proof build blueprint/cheat sheet for a Twin Turbo application on one of these engines? I'm looking to do a TT3800 swap in my Pontiac Fiero.
you can copy what was done here
My theory is that the headers will start to glow much quicker because there is a level of back pressure thats extremely hot as we all know so there for its pretty much telling us that the header tube size is too small and could do with larger tubing and in return flowing more exhaust spooling up that larger turbo much more faster and getting rid of it quicker aswell hopefully releaving some of that back pressure which will help it spool back up when off boost at a cruising speed and keep the heat out but we should always pay attention to what our motors are saying 🤠 thats my theory guys so please don't come kick my door in and skin me and my family alive if I'm wrong...its what my brain come up with while watching the video so instead of the hate comments or being a dickhead how about you just educate me and teach me why im wrong or if im close explain that too 💪🏽🇦🇺
THE GLOW IS FROM THE LOW IGNITION TIMING ON BOOSTED APPLICATIONS
@@richardholdener1727 and does what I said have anything to do with it ??
What about KR? I heard this engine was notorious for it.
no KR with the Holley
That 4t60e be crying
Smooth or rought intake ports? What's best?
smooth
Personally I blame squirrels