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THE OTHER GUYS-3800 SC V6 MODS!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2024
- 3800 SERIES 2 MODS-PULLEYS, INTERCOOLER & KB BLOWER UPGRADE. HOW WELL DOES THE 3800, SERIES 2 V6 RESPOND TO PERFORMANCE MODS? WE TESTED BLOWER PULLEY SWAPS, FROM 3.8-3.0 INCHES, A SET OF PORTED HEADS, ATW INTERCOOLER AND THEN A KENNE BELL TWIN-SCREW SUPERCHARGER UPGRADE. FIND OUT WHY WE WANT A REDO AND THEN ADD A TURBO!
Pleeeeeaaasase do a Big Bang for this engine!!
He said he was going to do a big bang for this
I want to see you run a 3.3 l on a turbo assembly sports my son is getting about 600 horsepower
3.3 liter Buick engine 93
Nobody cares about the 3800s 😂😂😂😂 ls4 will punish tf outta this .
Rich Gwolla guess I’m a nobody, lol! 🤷 not gonna argue with you there, wish I had the ls4 in my car!
I will always love this engine. I surprise a lot of v-8 cars with my Grand Prix.
Never let your guy touch another head. The pictures made me cry
5 years ago I was watching Rich regarding the usual LS shit, now I’m building a car for my daughter. ‘99 Camaro 3.8 SC. Love it
I didn't have a you tube channel 5 years ago
Big Bang
GM Series II VS. Ford Supercoupe 3.8L SC back to back. Now that would be something to see!
I would like to see the SC 3.8L Boat Anchor being sadistically flogged with a big 🐌 and aftercooler too. Always thought there was more in it but the factory M90 was a pushover and not up to snuff.
Yes big bang!, Turbo matched with the NA aluminum intake and a plenum insert. I had a 3800lb fwd car running 11.5 with a stock bottom end and a cam with a turbo setup.
How'd the trans hold up? And the half shafts? Do ya have torque steer in the corners, or it it drag-only?
@@donellmuniz590 trans cost more than the car, had a bunch of gm racing parts and a torsen diff. No tq steer and stock half shafts held up fine on hoosier qtp slicks.
@@Wild9C1 Interesting.
@Daver G now that's interesting lol.
Any trans shop with half a brain knows how to build these transmissions. People give that a bad rap because they would dump money into the motors and leave the trans stock and expect it to hold up.....
One of the ultimate best v6 engines ever built by any manufacturer. I have one in my 03 monte carlo s.s N/A. I love that engine. I seen these with with 400,000 ,miles on them.
You replied to me that my 292 with 4-71 blower might not be big enough to support 800-1000 hp. After making some calls and talking to The Blower shop you were correct! Thanks for the input. Looks like a 6-71 is in the works. Luckily I have not had the intake for the 12 port cross flow made yet. Thanks again.
3800 nice. Yes big bang. Twin turbo. Will do at least 800-900 stock rod for sure. Maybe more. If you can find one get an L32. Its the last of the 3800 blower engines. Has rods the same design as a GEN4 LS. I can send you a cam card for a comp grind we did that got us to an 8.80@160 using ported cast iron heads. PS: in that old dyno, you may have been opening the valves as the stock closed pressure is like 75lb lol.
Terafi absolute weapon haha
@@delcowizzid Was lol.
these l67s are really popular here in australia as they came in a bunch of our commodoors, theres quite a few that are making over 1000hp at the wheels with forged internals and a turbo
Mr Rice i Call BS. 4.2ltr stroker with 350kw atw supercarged intercooled VS Ute.
Have to be realistic about what he tests.
www.fullboost.com.au/fb/index.php/2019/09/02/1000hp-v6-ecotec/
@@v8soarer1991 that is with a supercharger, which are trash compared to a big single turbo
v8soarer1991 there are certainly people in Aus nudging 1000hp with the v6’s. None with the factory m90 obviously
Lag sux vt xu6 is stroker turbo nitrous making around 70hp atw and runs low 9s
@@benmcbride-davids7233 incorrect, isnt stroked.
I had a gtp back in the early 2000s and I remember you could adapt an ls or Northstar throttle body to them, zzp performance had all the parts for these engines back then..stage 1-4 cams and heads, transmissions, and turbo kits..I traded up for an ls car and never looked back.. going from a 3800 to an ls.. The parts were way cheaper than ls parts.
Go big boost
I have an 02 GTP sitting in the yard that is going to end up being the power for a ladder car, like the Atom. Would be fun to put a turbo on it, run it on E85, and have the entire car with me weigh less than 2000lbs. Would make a super fun summer car.
Nowadays it’s several thousand dollars to make 400 hp, plus a 3000 dollar built transmission to hold the power. Meanwhile an LS is just a cam and tune away
@@CraftsmanQuad19 I'm putting the 6.0 in my 76 C10 it had a bad lifter that ate the cam so I had to get a camshaft for it. Then I had to get headers mounts build a new fuel system then I have to come up with the transmission that I can make work with the 600 and that's going Chevy to Chevy and it should make about 400 horse but you never know it might not. Right now including the engine all the parts and not even getting ready to put it in the truck yet just compiling part I got 22 $2,300 wrapped up in it now I can take a 400 Pontiac and get 450 horse out of it really easy for about $2,000 and if it came in a Pontiac vehicle then I don't have to change anything I just pull it out go through it stick it back together with the right Cam and everything in it and a set of headers and everything is cheap for the Pontiacs. $175 for headers instead of 320 for the LS don't need to change the gears don't need to change the transmission don't need to change a fuel system unless I want to put EFI on it. I like the ls a lot but it's not exactly what I would call inexpensive. They can make good power but you're not going to do that reliably with a junkyard engine and put it in for pennies you're going to end up spending a couple of grand just to put it in the vehicle. That's why it's going in the truck and not my GTO because a 6.0 is going to have a hard time making the same power that my 455 does, it'll never make as much torque except maybe come close at the peak Maybe, i can do a rebuild with forged rods and pistons in a 455 with ported heads that makes 550hp 600tq for about 3k. When it costs me almost that much to just stuff in a junkyard engine that's makes less power and needs more rpm to come close, well they make good truck engines
@@CraftsmanQuad19 I'm not an idiot I think you can figure out what I was trying to say I'm using voice to text because my hands are covered in oil and I'm out in the shop. The tablet doesn't really know car stuff that well
Every engine should be a “Big Bang”!!! Every engine should be tested with a turbo and inter cooler !!!!
every engine should be run on E85 both NA and with boost.
Big bang everything 💪
@@SweatyFatGuy I dont have E85 in my area (western Washington), which is a bit of a bummer.
@@donellmuniz590 I have to drive 2 hours south into another state so that I can fill up 55 gallon barrels with E85. So I feel you are not having it nearby. Used to have a station near here that had it was only 20 miles but they gouged everybody on the prices and then stopped having it. They were selling it for more money than 87 octane and you just aren't going to sell any if you're doing that it was $0.10 more than 87. Most stations around the country will have it price $0.10 under 87 octane. I'm out in the shop right now I'm using voice to text because my hands are covered in oil so if something in this doesn't quite make sense or has the wrong word blame it on my tablet
@@donellmuniz590 almost forgot I'm also making my own gate E5 well I make straight up and all and comes out like he 98 cuz I have to denature it I make it out of tree sap you can make it out all kinds of things and pretty much any vehicle even airplanes and boats will run on it without any problems most of what you hear about it being harmful or whatever is negative it's just bulshit. I've been running it for 13 years and all my stuff looks nice and clean no rust no corrosion no nothing
Yes #bigbang3800! I've gone all the way to 25psi on my sbe, with a vsracing 6766, 3800 Camaro intake. Not sure on the power but it had a st4 cam from zzp. Let me know if you have any questions.
THNX FOR THE INFO
What ET and MPH then?
This test was puzzling. It must be redone, but without overthinking it.
I remember a head modification article from the late 90's. They flowed a stock head, then ported and polished the head and reran the test and it was a nice increase But just for kicks and to validate polishing (a theory to test if polishing actually help) they sand blasted the runners making them rough again. Low and behold they flowed even better. When you blow smoke thru a tube you get rings. They believe that the air flowing into your intake is doing the same thing. The rolling effect acts like a roller bearing allowing the center flow to move faster. The rougher the surface the greater this effect. This doesn't mean flashing nubs and bumps help it doesn't. Obviously anything in the way isn't going to help. They also found the v shape cuts a cnc porting machining makes flow even more because the rolling effect is greater.
George Montgomery : Welcome and thanks for the info. You have my respect.
You gotta do a Gen3 vs a Gen5 SC then for a turbo do one test with the SC lower intake and a elbow strait to the Throttle body and then the NA intake from both the FWD one and the Camaro 3.8L lower and upper. That be the set ups that people already use in the real world. Keep up the great work bud.
The Australian Holden lower is better than any of them 👍 its basically a short ram lower
I agree with your opinion 💯💯.
And since our opinions are KNOWN FACTS!!!!!!!! (NOT UP FOR DEBATE) it's the best.
I would like to see a 4200 inline 6 build with a turbo.
YES
Yes 4200 i6 big bang!
Biggest issue with them is lack of aftermarket. Stock internals can only go so far and there’s no forged options available off the shelf. You’d need custom parts which is so expensive
www.thirdgen.org/forums/engine-swap/608490-autorocs-turbo-vortec-4200-a.html
I'd love to see the 3700 i5 and 2900 i4 variants too.
3800 was always one of my favorite engines.
Yes to the big bang please.
I like the stock 3800 series II N/A intake manifold for the big bang test.
My friends and I were just talking about turbo ing a 3.8 ! That would be a awesome sleeper in a lesabre . Great test !
The old cartuning turbo kits used to put those cars deep in the 12's with a stock 3800!
I definitely feel your pain with those unsatisfactory test results. I still have an ‘02 GTP that I bought new. With just under 2000 miles, I started the typical mods. A 3.4” pulley on the M-90 to replace the stock 3.8” piece. Like you stated, the torque came on sooner and would roast the tires with less throttle. The CAI box picked up a little more power but with less restriction, the supercharger whine was pleasantly loud.
If you do another L67 test a turbo setup would definitely be better since the upgrade to the Kenne-Bell requires manifold fabrication and the Eaton M-90 tends to loose thermal efficiency at higher boost levels. A good source for better cams and hardcore internal components is ZZ Performance. Your videos are greatly appreciated, Richard.
every test result is more than satisfactory-data is always good
I would love to see you do a series on the ford 3.7L that’s in the mustang. There’s so much conjecture regarding throttle body sizing, Intake porting and headers being “worth it” and I feel like a definitive dyno would answer a lot of questions. Plus 300+ hp v6 is pretty sweet.
Duttweiler was getting 700hp from Buick GN back in the late 80s early 90s.
I still have my
Turbo Magazines that I bought new.
Different motor
Turbo 3800 can fly....!
Add cumputer eeprom....easy low 11 sec
3600lb. G body....
Strong block, Mahle pistons in1989, torqueplate at factory......good stuff for sure!!
If I remember correctly, GNX motor was mod by McLaren. I still have a business card from engr I worked with on pgm. They used ported 3.0 Buick heads....ceramic turbo...and A to A intercooler, as all 1987 GN had.
We had a test car that Gabe did prom, and it was impressive!!!
Since the GNX is so Super Collectable, no sane person would hack one up.
I think ~545 Total built. Each dealer got 1!
And some special vip people....
@@karter9908 The 3800 series and the Turbo LC2 3.8 Buick motor are not the same motor...
ASC/McLaren helped modify GNs into the 547 GNXs. It's not the same company as the McLaren super car manufacturer though.
@@gn4life84 you are correct. I forgot to mention a few things...it's been YEARS!
@@karter9908 no worries man. It's all good. it's a common thought that all 3.8 gm V6s are the same. But there are a variety of them.
This gives me LOTS of ideas for my 04 Impala ss 🤘. 3.4 pulley and power logs, tune and I take and I'll be happy 😁
Id love to see the L67 big bang. Thanks Richard for being an awesome guy
Hi Richard,
Intense or ZZP have good ported heads for the 3800.
Some guys do a housing, but if you can find an aluminum FWD intake that would be one of the best options. Don't use an F-body one, it sucks (I should know haha). The Holden intake has really bad flow characteristics stock. I can't remember if you can use the HV3 insert on the aluminum intake but I've seen people make good gains NA with that.
Would love to see pump vs E85 as well. I run E85 on my NA setup, but it's a higher compression build.
You might want to keep an eye on coolant pressure, with a really efficient turbo some of the RWD guys have pushed coolant because it would light off down low too soon even with ARP head studs, mls gaskets and copper spray.
Been in that predicament lol. Realized the studs actually grow when the engine is warm. So id re-torque when the engine was hot. Even though everyone says that's a no no. Worked for me.
i love zzp but 4k for a set of ported heads is laughable!
People have been using the Holley LS upper intake manifold and doing a diy lower intake manifold on Honda J-Series V6 engines and I think the same thing could be applied to this engine, this mod also allows basically any size throttle body to be used as well!
@@ThmsPtrsn yup, with really good results. I had planned on doing that with the Firebird, using the Holden lower and the holley upper.
These engines are very popular with Fiero modders. I think the bolt ons usually net more power gains than what was seen here, usually tuned fairly easily in HPtuners with the GM ECU. Some of the fastest fieros in the 1/4 mile are running turbo 3800s. 3.4 pulleys are usually the limit on the street before heat causes knock. Larger throttle bodies are swapped, usually from a Cadillac Northstar, the factory throttle is pretty small for that power level.
Those v6 3.8 Buick engines are really good we have them in our earlier holden commodores. There are guy's that have built them to 750 hp and higher. Tough motors
DO THE BIG BANG!
Also having had some 3800 engines i know the ignition modules can be finicky. Cams definitely make a big difference. Valve springs are a must do upgrade. Those ported heads look like they were attacked for way too long.
The m90 is great for stock application but does have it's limits. We did a twin turbo setup on NA 3800 that had about 400 hp from 8psi from memory. It was intercooled as well. Thing was so much fun to drive!
My buddys use to have a rail buggy with the 3800 on it. That lil bastard was fun
I'd like to see results from extended ratio rockers on a stock cam. That's a pretty common "mod" for these engines.
I opted for the 1.9 ratio rockers instead of a cam due to the weak transmission in the W-body automobiles.
Working for Buick at DPG, I did Dev work on 3800sc . It was understood that b25 cam was used only because of bad rockers. Buick/GM couldn't justify rocker redesign/upgrade.
Waiting to see what your tests shows🤔
@@karter9908
It's long gone. I had an '01 GTP with 3.4 pulley and supporting mods. It ran a 13.7@ 101. It was a hoot to drive
They are worth sod all. I have tried 1.95-1 roller rockers and am not even sure they did anything. My guess they are worth about 5-10hp max.
@@karter9908 you say you worked for Buick why I's it Pontiac got the credit for this engine.?
Oh man. The hits keep coming. I love the early to mid 90s Buick century. I'd love to hop one up.
Kenne Bell makes cylinder heads specific for higher boost engines and more. A high flow aftercooler and if it's liquid to air, try dry ice and methanol instead of water. Although for the specific application would require a custom aftercooler for maximum gains. Roller valve train is a must.
KENNE BELL DOES NOT MAKE HEADS
YESSS been waiting for 3.8 v6 stuff 🙌🏻🙌🏻
L26 Intake, ZZP Hv3 insert, and an adapter to run a northstar tb would work well with the turbo.
Thanks for going ahead even if it's not perfect. There's so much to learn ....
I'd like to see temperature both before and after the turbo plus air flow.
Hell yea do big bang! I have 3800 turbo swapped fiero... i killed my bonestock one with 21psi on 61mm turbo it should have lasted more for sure... lim coolant ports where plugged so that didnt help... i just got new motor put together with different intake, cam and valve springs and the supporting mods u need for those...
YES.......BIG BANG 3800 SERIES!!!
N/A intake, big turbskie with intercooler should be a decent combo
I seen ported N/A intake as well.
He has made custom length tubular intakes before with great results. He may just be able to achieve the na Hp from 3800 enthusiasts dreams lol
Definitely something funky going on in that old test. Lots of guys will struggle to run a pulley smaller than 3.4" on the stock motor without a camshaft or intercooler due to the PCM detecting knock. The factory exhaust could have been a limiting factor in those old tests with the ported heads too, you can get headers for these things dirt cheap on Ebay still though if you wanted to redo this test.
I think more people realize the M90 needs a lot to make it work well though these days. I think more people would be interested in seeing the results of a turbo build on this and see how far it can really go without being limited by the 4t65e transmission. I would love to see more RWD builds of these out there in addition to my own :p
For intakes it'd be cool to see a comparison of the factory N/A intakes vs a fabricated hat for the blower intake. I would think the factory N/A intake should be able to make more power especially down low.
I wonder if a custom grind cam would help here too. A lot of the vendor camshafts that were developed 15-20 years ago all seem to be pretty conservative camshafts by today's standards. Anything is better than a factory camshaft but I wanna try to see if I can get a camshaft with a really high duration (higher than something like the Sttattama ST5 cam) and just see what happens haha.
Stattama STR6 is the biggest cam that I've heard of for these engines. ST5 or Intense's stage 4 blower cam is probably the next best that is readily available
Holden Commodores ran the Buick V6 Motor from 1988 until 2002-2003. They also used a Supercharged version which had a M90 Eaton I believe. They are a great motor. Holden re engineered them from the ground up. Great Torque off the line. Last ones had around 158KW and 320NM torque non supercharged.
Welcome to 2000 - 2005 when the 3800 was popular and people with money would throw cheddar at them like throwing bills at a stripper in the club.
Spending $6k for 50hp 😅🤣😂
dvj racing not really 500 bucks can net you almost 50 hp
I love these engines but richard is right turbo id the way to go
@@mikehardin2927 the supercharger swap was the only thing that netted any power. Call and see what that costs.....
@@mikehardin2927 From what Richard demonstrated, it looks like just a pulley swap and maybe a bigger throttle body, eh?
I think the reason why the ported heads didn't work is because the stock cam was so mild that the unmodified heads posed no restriction.
John Parrish agree 100% why even bother with a stock cam? Nothing to gain without can upgrade to need more flow.
True. Stock cam is tuned for emissions and economy so not great for making power.
It's more likely the supercharger; if you've seen his other videos you might recall him using the same supercharger on the 4.8 LS and it acted like a restrictor plate. The end power was similar, which is likely the most power those chargers can make.
@@BrendanCBreen OH, Good Point
I had a company furnished 2005 GTP with that blondness 3800. Seems like it was supposed to be 280 HP with premium fuel. Ran strong. Unfortunately didn’t get to keep it very long. My first experience with supercharged V6 was a 1990 T-bird super Coupe. Auto trans. Car was pretty clapped out when I got it, but it would still move and was fun to drive. The other 3800 SC..
Definitely retest it. You a good ecu this time with the most you can get from a stock block, good heads and good camshaft. Then at the end change to the turbo
Should have had “THE DULCHECK” port them lmao
Supermang (it's an Aussie thing😉)
The sound of the western suburbs on a balmy summer night.
Maaaaaaaaaaang ,maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang!!!!!.
Horrible old vp commodore doing a one wheel peel.
How come all these motors in Australia kick more legs the a karate master on a Wednesday night? 😂
Dayumm Jelly 😂 good comment.
i believe the series 1 had different rods and oiling setup or something like that and they liked to throw rods, I’ve seen 5 grenade with my own eyes and a few more on video, the series one is VN, VP, VR. The series 2 (Ecotec) in the VS, VT, VY commodores had revised rods etc and I’ve never seen one of them throw rods, apparently really though engines.
These blocks are pretty strong.a short TH-cam search of turbo gtp or turbo l67 confirms this.the ported heads are not the restriction so you wont see a gain until they are the cam is the restriction.the stock exhaust is a restriction.
I think stock heads on the kb vs ported on the kb after a cam swap would show you what the porting on the heads can do.
Also definitely do springs with a cam even if they dont recomend it.i speak from experience.
Turbo all the way.big turbo too.at least what it will spool.
F the 4t65...
Big bang, yes! I've always wondered what the max is on these popular engines.
Great video and thank you so much!!!! YES!!!! Please revisit this setup.
3.8 with a t66 turbo and intercooler good set of injectors and intake manifold see what happens I known one to kick the snot out of a Nissan GTR and it was in a Buick regal gs
there was a local guy in the Chicagoland area in the 2000s with a turbo'd Regal GS running 11.8 quarter mile times
Ooh hell yeah! Only thing I’d recommend for your second go through is try and pick up an l32/ series 3 SC engine. The s2 is awesome for sure but I’ve read the s3 sc has factory forged rods and can supposedly make more power
L67 is stronger
@@morboost4224 L32 has rods same as a Gen4 LS. Stronger than L67.
@@3800TURBO They don't really, people have broken l32 rods but haven't broken l67 rods in similar builds.
Series III has the powdered metal rods
Surely you want the late model l67
Yes, boost, turbo boost! How about a fabbed IR intake/plenum combo with runner lengths about like an LS3, or maybe 1 to 1-1/2” shorter? Ford Racing Eco-boost-sized twin turbos, maybe? Put injector bungs at both ends of the runners, run E85 without an intercooler... So many possibilities! Keep the videos coming, Richard!
I saw a stock supercharged Riviera online last year from a dealership somewhere in norcal. It was $4k with like 60k miles. I really wanted to buy it and have them ship it to me but I ended up buying a Chevy truck instead. It was loaded and looked real clean.
I really want to get my Fiero with the 3800 supercharged swap on a dyno. I have a 3.4 pulley, headers and a tune. Would love to see what the best mods for power would be. 👍
That little Eaton can't move enough air, put a big turbo in front of it to take over up top maybe? Be interesting to see it compounded that way!
Full exhaust, pulley, cams, and tune will make big power!
Would love to see someone do a proper turbo-compound, for the ultimate in responsive throttle w/ stonkin' torque at any revs...
@@bri-manhunter2654 define big power. Big average hp , nothing on a Wu Tang war whistle
@@hayden6056. Big power is relative, for the street anyways.
@@bri-manhunter2654 this is coming from someone with an intercooled , cammed, balanced and e85 motor on the stand.
If it makes 350whp I'll cream but it'll be over 200rwhp by 2k.
Fit a killaboost manifold set up and an s300 Borg Warner on same rotating assembly and heads and I'd be probably around 5-600 before pistons are a worry.
I’ve picked up crazy power on N/A l36 with ported heads and a inlet spacer and extractors and tune... the secret was the valve cut n radius😉 i opened up the exhaust ports by 5mm all the way around. I’d be happy to send you a set of my heads!!!
I can not wait till you come out with your big bang video on the 3800. This engine needs another shot at redemption. Hopefully you are close to doing the new tests. CANT WAIT!!!!!!
do an iron duke engine build and do the Big Bang test with a supercharger
Yes please the legendary iron duke!!!
It's been done, the cranks break with any boost.
yesssssss. i wanna see a 2.5 jeep big bang.
Finally my love is getting the attention she deserves
i know how your feeling my friend i plan on pulling my sc 3.8l out of my impala when the body finally roots out all the way (fuck nys) and putting it in a smaller car with mods
One of the videos that got me hooked on the 3800 world
Yes! Do the big bang with it. And def compare the K bell with Gen 3. But figure out the tuning to be easier too.
Could the lack of power gians up top be valve float. I know my brother did valve springs on his s3 3800
I was thinking the same, these are not built for the abuse of dyno runs
The cam is so small it is more likely that. Bigger cams or high ratio rockers running 6k+ rpm the valve springs will definitely be an issue
Also, higher boost is going to effectively lower spring seat pressure. I’d say springs are a must before turbocharging it.
can we see what you did to fit the Kenne Bell blower?
Yeah, I would like to see the plate specs pleeeeeaaase
Richard you should really look into building a 3.7 L Cyclone mustang engine. They have a lot of potential for the price compared to a coyote, especially turbocharged. Auto mafia racing got a 9 second pass on his stock internals sealed 150k mile turbo 3.7 mustang before a piston let go.
Interesting for sure, I'm thinking about putting a Super Charger on a 3.6 GMC Acadia. But this test says it's not going to be worth the effort or price. Personally I think if you watch a video on a Koenigsegg engine shop walk through they say something about porting. What it is about is that a rough texture allows air to move faster than a smooth surface. So I'd do Port matching, clean edges of the casting and machining. Allow the head too breath. Take a good look at the exhaust and get the gasses and temperature out from under the hood. As a machinist, years ago I was very interested in what we called cheater heads. What makes a cheater head is stock intake say a 196 in a Chevy Small Block and an exhaust valve that was as big as you could possibly use. My memory is not the best but I think it was a 174. Stock is like a 160 if I'm not mistaken. Point is simple. But get the heat out of the engine.
Go as stock as possible. Run the stock manifold, really looking forward to this, m first car had a 3.8. Head blew and I didn't have cash to fix it but wish i could have fixed it and put it in something else.
L67 turbo please with as much information as possible. I have this engine turbo in a chevette and want upgrades. I also have a holden intake. Not sure where you are located but if you're close enough id be willing to lend it for testing purposes.
check out ZZPerformance. They still have a ton of upgrades and info for the 3800 engine
The later version had an aluminum intake plenum instead of plastic.
You can take the runners out of the plenum and get adapters that shorten the runner.
Would be cool to see if removing the balance shaft under intake did anything.
I bet the m90 was simply out of its efficiency band that much.
I thought the heads looked decent. But it only takes a few wrong places grinding to reverse all the progress in flow.
I would love to see a big bang on this engine !!
Still waiting for a big bang on a k24a2
yes yes yes want to see lots more on this engine i have 2 gtps also do the 3800 vin k engine
What's different about the vin k engines?
Pos
So when is the v10 truck motors.
Ford or dodge
@@timothythomas1737 DODGE
Both ! Mostly want to see the ford though !
I had a boss who owned a custom dodge suburban type vehicle with a v10 that had a banks centrifugal charger on.it We also put in ross forged pistons balanced it larger injectors because the meth injection didn't kill all the detonation also head was massaged by indy cylinder head it was pretty fast for a one ton truck.not sure on power out put but banks only i think it was ranked at 500 hp
V 10 truck engines arent viper engines tho. I have a good friend with a viper truck
Hey Richard. I believe the problem with the ported heads is in the work done on the combustion chamber. Looks like it's too far gone from the gm design. There's a reason why swirl is important as well as efficiency is gone when too much material was removed... I'm no expert but have had a set of overported Vortec heads not by me LoL and it never made the torque my motor should've had. Kinda like these heads.
I'm thinking that this might be the perfect platform for a dual-charging test. It already has a supercharger and it comes with "turbo manifolds" and it looks like at least a few people in the comments agree. Maybe stockish and the the last step in big bang is just throw everything at it...even the kitchen sink if you can find one. But really, I'd like to know if dual-charging has the same compounding boost effect as compound turbos and how a setup like that responds to different compressor sizes i.e. small supercharger and small turbo, small and big, big and small, big and big. Also stock heads and cam vs ported heads aftermarket cam. Lots of cool content to be had with this one.
I will do compound on this
Seen that engine make north 800 hp
😕really
Personally I blame squirrels
John Woodworth .Me three.
To get ported power you need to gasket match the lower intake to cylinder heads and Polishing some ....... first take more out of Th top of LIM then gasket match it at end and smooth together and splash some...... then open the beginning of head port open wide to match gasket, be East and try to grind anglewords to the left and right because you will blow threw the wall if you go Flush straight and then blend it in and polish so point is to make the ends on heads a little small so you give it Vortec and velocity ....... then on in of cylinder head grind / smooth the lip / edge lip around the valves and then just smooth everything else around inside that area especially around spark plugs ect.... leave the exhaust port the same design pretty much just open it up minimal staying the same design, never make the outside bigger just inside to middle bigger minimally....then smooth and blend all
In, do not open the outside of the exhaust port..... did this on a NA and it Posi spun the tires and 1/4 throttle or less on a 99 N/A 3.8 and would cherp the gear good in 2nd gear, and this by far the best mod I did for free money almost with the most power gains !!!! was all stock even PCM was stock .... best power bang for the buck...... Wish I got to try it out on a supercharged engine!
Well, that was an eye opener. I didn't think anyone would give a crap about this engine. Ya certainly never saw em in Hot Rod or Car Craft. Except for turbo 3.8s in Grand Nationals. THAT was a car. I like old and offbeat, I guess they just ain't old enough for me.
A popular set up in Australia is the put the NA heads and inlet on the L67 and turbo it, im trying to convince my friend with 4 L67s in his shed to do this. I think there's a VN Commodore in Perth (Australia) thats gone 8s on a SBE L67
I tried porting a 3800 in 2007. i hogged it out for an hour and didn't gain *anything*. I took it to a professional porter who got 225 cfm with the stock 1.80" valve (stock is around 185) in 30 minutes. I got it CMM'd and still have the CAD.
I see your friend "unshrouded" the intake valve...that loses 15cfm! and it doesn't even look like he did a proper valve job. It's actually worse to use bigger valves because you don't increase flow and just lose air speed. Some dubious companies putting in 1.90" valves. Sorry to see Abbott Racing is out of business - they had really good heads.
Nice, you did the video💯👍👍So with just the s/s headers and 3 inch cat back exhaust , 3.4 pulley, stock injectors... lil bump jump in horsies. I have a few more things to modify, can't wait to drive it. Do the turbo and big bang. I will guess turbo, cam will net 763 horsepowers. In Australia, a guy has a 3800 bored n stroked to 4.2 liters, big turbo, horsepower is 1100😱😱😱
Yess please do a Gen V blower and then a turbo maybe a Twin Charged and then just a turbo charged. That be amazing.
And yes do stock intake vs SC lower with made adapter box
Richard u should build a n/a 3800 to test heads and cam from intense racing and stroker kit from mace engineering in australia before u blow it up w turbo power!
Great video. I would really like to see a camshaft comparison video for this engine.
i have a cam test video up on the sc 3800
I run a TV1900 at 22ishPSI, ZZP aluminum heads, big cam, JE pistons, etc on my series2. When it's not blowing head gaskets or melting pistons it's a beast. 3rd gear rolls at 80+mph with wheel spin all the way to 4th.
Maybe the throttle body was the biggest restriction so the ported heads didn't make any more power. Hell, maybe it was the supercharger. The boost level didn't change and the power didn't change.
I'd like to see more on this engine. Big bang baby!
I have a friend who bought a 2001 in 2017 V6 Camaro that was basically a brand new car it had a little over 20,000 miles it was nice. I have a turbo 1999 Z28 and that was when I started really getting into the suspension and swapping to a 12 bolt rear end so I had a 10 bolt rear end with moser axles spool and 4.10 gear some cheap none adjustable control arms and a BMR tourqe arm for the th350 swap and some eibach springs and some 90/10 Lakewood struts up front and some konis on the rear. He bought everything from me and then he found one these out of a wrecked Pontiac grand prix gxp and swapped it in the car, he put a factory n/a intake on it and took it to our buddy who does every bodys fab work in my area and he fabbed up a cool ass single turbo kit he used my first air to air intercooler I had on my car, hes got a VS racing billet 66/73 t4 turbo that's little bit to much for that little motor but he done on purpose it's got a full single 4" exhaust with a 2 dynomax bullet mufflers and splits to a y over the rear end to make it look shaped like a the factory cat back out back with some bad ass 3.5" tips. He also swapped a th350 with some decent parts in it with a manual valve body and a PTC converter then he swapped all the stuff he got from me and its controlled by a megasquirt gold box it's got a leash boost controller. The whole idea behind this build was just to try somthin weird and it actually turned out pretty mean it hasn't been on a dyno but by his e.t's at the track it has to be making close to 500whp, the whole build was finished in September 2018 and that bad boy is still running strong. He has the wheels that where on my Z28 when I bought it they are Race Star 17x4's and 15x8's with 275/50/15 Hoosier dragradials and it runs high 6.80s footbreakin in the 1/8 mile at around 97-100mph, it still has the RS badges on it he will throw the old stock 16" v6 wheels with dragradials on them and go around whuppin up on coyote stangs 5th and 6th gen Camaros and any body else who thinks their gonna beat up on his car but he has put the gap train on several cars. It's just somethin different that turned out to pretty fast with sbe 3800
YES! Do a big bang, you can pick up these cars for nothing in pretty good shape and have alot of fun!
boost, especially in a roots blower, is a measure of restriction. So an increase in boost in the higher revs is either a measure of less flow of the engine or less efficiency in the blower.
It's not really a measure of restriction when applying to the intake system, wouldn't make sense to plot a superchargers cfm showing its most efficient at xx boost if the lowest "restriction" is best
@@jacobburskey3044 yes it is. Don't confuse flow with boost and don't confuse efficiency of the s/c with efficiency of the engine.
A roots blower provides a certain amount of airflow for a given revolution and it is a positive displacement because it has a fixed pressure ratio per the amount of air ingested versus the amount expelled.
If the engine can't ingest the amount of air it's being fed, you get additional boost pressure which makes the amount of boost for a given revolution in a pos disp. blower, a measure of restriction of the engine. So iof boost is going up in the higher rpm range that is indicative of additional restriction in the flow of air by the engine in the upper rpm range and a camshaft change or porting of the head will usually lower the boost and increase the power because the engine is able to flow more air without compressing it as much.
The head can't be the restriction at those levels of airflow through the head. I had a GTX 3582r gen2 on a Ecotec V6 pushing about 14 or 15psi and it made really good power. Awesome fun to drive. I never went ported heads due to it just not being worth the small gains.Was a built motor with a cam and all the bits.
Those motors love cams. I used a comp cam that they make for the 3800.
The 3800 is my favorite V6. Just a damn loyal sweetheart of a motor. Every car I owned that had one, never left me stranded. Obviously results may vary...but, ya know.
I've ported enough heads to say there is no glaringly obvious problems with your friends port job. I think you are right it just needs more cam.
It has no secondary taper to the valve seat any more. The port now runs to the primary valve angle. It also looks like it still has the factory valve job on it. It might flow well at higher lifts, but you couldn't fix the valve seat and have a proper multiangle valve job without going to a larger valve. The intake is worse, with cutter marks right up to the valve seat. The exhaust isn't quite as bad but it's rough kung fu cutter marks and not a radius seat. If would have to guess, it looks like these heads were ported in preparation for larger valves. A multiangle valve job would have given more benefit than this.
@@timothybayliss6680 depends entirely on the area ratio of the throat of the bowl to the runner size, but typically porting to the 45 degree seat mark is not hugely detrimental unless you go passed square to the seat (i.e undercut the throat). My eyesight is not what it once was, and we aren't looking directly down on the bowl, but it does look a bit like he has undercut it a bit which will hurt flow. It then turns the flow back towards the centre of the valve rather than away from it. It didn't hurt the hp figures and it also didn't gain anything, which points back to the cam not being big enough.
@@timothybayliss6680 eh, turbo will make those mistakes shine :)
D shape the exhaust port. Stage 2 comp blower cam. Port the blower and up size the rotors. Turn down the blower snout to except the smallest pulley available. Adapter plate for 6.0 ls throttle body. Msd coils. 8.8 wires. Injector, fuel rail and fuel pump upgrade. Headers and proper tune. Ran this combo and made North of 500 hp and 540 something lbs ft of torque. At 1 point Whipple made a blower for this little monster and was awesome. 01 gs ran on street only. Was ignorant. Blew 3 4t65hd Trans and quit. Wasn't able to afford the raptor Trans at the time, 2500 dollar upgrade. Had a growing family. Oh 100 octane fuel i mixed at home.
Could also twin charge.
Made north of 500 whp on an m90? Hope you mean crank hp, as the 500+whp m90 was just achieved recently with a lot more work than you did, and done in Australia.
PROBABLY NOT A GEN 2 M90 BLOWER, RIGHT?
@@richardholdener1727 no gen 3 on a series 2 3800
Do a Big Bang... if so PLEASE share the cam you use!! And head flow numbers for your cam selection. Good work btw!! I wish I had your job. I’d like to see if you can get 600-700+ hp out of that thing. Maybe use some nitrous for cooling attributes.. Would be fun to see a new take on that engine with all the advancements we have in today’s world
******
And The other good thing to put on is a Lq4 6.0 LS MAF Sensor (From 6.0 Ls Chevy) with a Year 2000 Northstar Throttle body they have plug and play wire harness and a micro chip recalibrate to make work / Port and match throttle body to a ZZP ported supercharger INLET ( Which i Think Matches ) Port Supercharger outlet to match LIM ... port runners on top of LIM more then anything , good amount in medium and blend it into the gasket matches lower ends ( I would put 4 Dabs of silicone on LIM side of gasket and bolt the LIM down to cylinder heads with LIM on and stick a marker or something in to runner ports so you can trace gasket onto heads because the gasket gets compressed down and makes the ports holes lower ......this is where the Dans of silicone on LIM come into play ... The gasket will come off stuck onto the LIM and you can trace the outlet onto the LIM lower outlet and then open it up to line and blend it into middle of runner ports, but remember you want this side of the port the smallest for velocity and fast
Flow into heads ( **** Also before you bolt up weld the coolant ports Next to EGR valve on top of LIM( this helps keep Air filter intake temps down in LIM and TB To get more power instead of sucking hot EGR exhaust gases in your intake that was just fresh air !! ...... Easy on the exhaust porting, try to grind angle words in to Valves, not on the outside don’t change shape just open up it up a tiny bit to keep velocity and same Shape ( Exhaust porting has major effects on flow ect .... The key point from my knowledge is to blend more at top less at on the bottom in turn to create increased air flow / Exhaust ports are the opposite direction !! ..... Always make sure to blend and polish, everything together and seamless and the mortar toymloish The better this will improve flow and gas mixture + Power ( Less Friction) so you give it Vortec and velocity ....... Last thing on the inside of the cylinder head grind the high lip around valves smooth for better glow and around the spark plug holder,,, don’t worry to much about hitting the outside of valves they should be closed and it shouldn’t effect anything inless you hit the seal of the Valve/ cylinder head seal ...... and then just smooth everything else out around inside the cylinder head & area around spark plug too..... This Mod was the best power bang for my buck ever and was free just time and some grinding wheels & stones Posi spun the tires stock PCM / 99 N/A 3.8 and would cherp the gears gnood in 2nd gear, and this by far was the best mod I did for free money almost with the most power gains !!!! was all stock even PCM was stock .... best power bang for the buck
...... Wish I got to try it out on a supercharged engine! Air & S/C Temps with the cooler r- stat .... / 3.0 pulley / Headers / 103 Racing Autolite spark plugs / 160% Thermostat / EGR Delete / 3 Inch single pipe mandrel Bent pipe 8-12 true resonator / Hooker Single Chamber Pipe ( stock cam sounds like a deep low slightly loopy Cam ( Best I even heard )
Love how you do odd ball engines
3800 a oddball😳 it's literally in everything
I have been messing with these for years. Definately get an XP cam from ZZP. A GenV m90. They also respond well to e85. And the main thing that's a constant debate in the 3800 world is if headers are beneficial. Nobody has actually done real Dyno testing on them to my knowledge. But yes the m90 is the restiction. Along with the 4t65e trans. And use a newer TB or convert to the Northstar TB and LQ4 MAf.
i RAN A TEST ON THE HEADERS AND IT SHOWED NO POWER-BUT LIKE TO MAKE CERTAIN WITH ANOTHER TEST
@@richardholdener1727 I can provide headers if you need them! 🙂
Big cam, big turbo, real heads, couple ARP bolts here and there, good harmonic balancer, alot more fuel and some nitrous oxide.
Need to do the 3.8 SC Thunderbird engine next! Im building one right now. Was going to go with a Jag m122 blower in place of the m90 but am going twin turbos instead.
twin charging would be interesting just to see what it does since that seems to happen a lot with these but it would be awesome to see a turbo one with a big cam and nice heads. my assumption is it would work like a GN
Turbo ! Turbo! Turbo!! ........then Big Bang!!!! Can’t wait to see what this thing makes!