Now I dive into the spoiler-ish things. This video came across more negative than I intended, but GOOD NEWS!....2020 is almost half way done! #TLOU2 #TheLastOfUs2
Nathan Knaebel it’s not that Joel dies. I’m actually ok with the idea and story of Abby killing Joel. The issue is having to play with Joel’s killer for 10 hours, half of which you play while despising her for having killed Joel, and she also has the better missions and weapons. I’m cool with the story on paper, the execution was just very mediocre. I still think it’s a good game, the graphics are amazing, the gameplay is fun, and the atmosphere is tense and stressful. Only downside is the story isn’t good. Still a 6 or 7 out of 10 game regardless though. I just would have liked if Abby’s missions were cut in half and those extra hours given to playing as Ellie and that Ellie had the better missions/boss fights.
Uchiha Joel My comment wouldn’t really apply to you because you’ve taken more time to use your brain than some people online I’ve interacted with. I have my problems with this game as well.
@@natek987 When you blame the audience for being too uneducated to like the game. That my friend would be called arrogance. The audience says it's shit. Therefore it's shit.
Abby: My father was a doctor for the fireflies working on a cure for the infection. Joel: I ain’t gonna repeat myself. Abby: he was the doctor that operated on Ellie Joel: ummm...just give me one more just one more Abby: he had a scalpel Joel: ......yeah...uh him.....still don’t really know what you’re talking about.
For me, the worst of it all was making us fight Ellie. I spent a very long time just letting Ellie kill me because it felt way better than trying to kill her.
I woulda loved a game where Ellie gets mad at Joel for lying to her, and runs off for 2 years. Meets up with Abby, then they have adventures together but the moment Ellie says anything about Joel, Abby just leaves and goes 'Welp, I just found the man I need to kill.'
Sounds fantastic to me. I wanted Abby to be all alone and get chased to Jackson or an area in the vicinity by the Scars. And she has to hold her emotions to herself once she finds out Joel is there because she has no choice. I would want her to get to be friends with Ellie as well so she could see why Joel did what he did. I would even like to see her and Joel go on a mission or something and for her to have a chance to kill him while his back is turned but she can't do it after getting to know more about him. And in the end, I would like to see Joel die saving Abby's and Ellie's life. They could still be more story parts and jaw-dropping reveals but I think it would've been better than what we got. They did a piss poor job with the writing for part II. Sucker Punch did a fantastic job with how they handled Ghost of Tsushima character's fates.
@@ThaRedPitbull the story they did wasnt bad. its meant to be a dark world where people is out there for revenge since there is no law of killing someone. but the way they did the flashbacks in flashbacks was just annoying. the sub plot they did with Abby and the asian kids was soooooo irrelevant to the main plot. the flashbacks with her and her boyfriend or whatever was doing nothing. they were just fully unnecessary. im not mad Joel died, im mad that they wasted my time with a shitty subplot that leads to nothing.
Yet people who try to defend the game say "if you kill someone that a person loves,don't expect not to get hunted down for it" but how tf is he supposed to know all that if he hasn't even met the person 😂 or anyone related
Abbys story didn’t make sense, she goes looking for Owen yet Mel gets there in no time in the morning .... and Owen just spills the beans on banging Abby within a few minutes Abby leaves to get the scars.... then the scars and wlf kill each other .. I could had done without the Abby story. I hope there is no sequels.
@@lilmupp875 - The problem is, in the first game, you play Joel. You learn him, you learn his mistake, you learn that he isn't a hero but you fall in love with him in every step what he made. Suddenly, boom, he is dead in Part 2. So no, that isn't a good "shocking" effect and that people must accept it. Wasn't a wise move. Now to try to tell the others that the game is bigger just than Joel, won't work.
Reminds me of Tony's "I don't care. He killed my mom" from Civil War which Jeremy directly references 5 seconds prior. Doesn't anyone remember that's the moment Tony became the villain?
The Last of Us fans: "The story sucks! They ruined these characters that we love!" Game of Thrones fans: "First time?" Terminator fans: "First time?" Star Wars fans: "First time?"
I thought it would have been smart and cooler for the last of us 2 to have been advertised as a new group not attached to lou1. And the ending it comes full circle where her dad dies and everyone who’s now attached to Abby is like holy shit... and 3 would have all that tension ready
That could have been a tough selling point with no Joel and Ellie. Personally, after I got over the jarring emotional cut of having to play as Abby, AGAIN, yet having forgotten all about playing her earlier altho I figured the early play was a setup to loop back to her. I got into Abby's story as it progressed and really felt for her over time which made both fights rough for me, especially the first. Anyway, I intially had my doubts and thought the decision of Abby was very questionable but for me, it paid off. Emotionally jarring and I was torn. I do hope if there is a 3rd, she and Ellie encounter each somehow again and make amends. There we can see more of Ellie's growth.
@@TreyIM22 exactly, what they did was scam people by basing the marketing around Ellie and Joel. All they wanted was money, they lied to and disrespected the fans
@@Bloooo95 Then she should've finished the damn job, that's like The Bride from Kill Bill going through everybody and then deciding to not kill Bill after all the hundreds of people she killed to get to him.
@@Bloooo95no, she left a happy life with dina bc she wanted to finish the job with abby and wasn’t satisfied. she ultimately didn’t end up killing her and lost everything. she was regretful of killing mel even. she didn’t care about her friends, only here
@@abramrexjoaquin7513 the big difference there is he was saving someone instead of getting revenge for losing somebody maybe the this game could have used that approach with its characters
A comment I saw elsewhere made a lot of sense to me: At the end of it all, she should have taken the guitar, a physical manifestation of Joel's love for Ellie, and learned to use it with her other hand. This would have been a powerful symbol of the pain and frustration of starting over after a painful and terrible loss but the determination to keep fighting and to never give up. Instead she just abandoned it.
The lessons kinds go against the 1st games lesson. Which was not giving up. She just abandoned the guitar. Actually she abandoned her mission to kill Abby
The developers didn’t want to give the impression of starting over. Not being able to play with the guitar symbolized how much she had lost and suffered in her journey. She was abandoned and alone and not happy about it and had lost all hope and determination that’s why she left the guitar.
Saro Dantra I don’t think that was an “abandonment” thing. I think it was a leaving Joel to rest thing. Like, finally forgiving him, finally letting him go. Not letting his memory haunt her anymore.
That was actually my take on Joel. I mean at the beginning of TLoU the fireflies were literally terrorists before the collapse. Even worse there's no guarantee they would have been able to actually make the cure after killing Ellie.
Fireflies weren't terrorists. At one point Ellie and Dina discuss how life was in the QZ, and how the government told them that Fireflies were terrorists. You know, the same government that tried to kill Joel and Sarah at the beginning of Part 1 for no reason, as well as clearly maintain an oppressive Warsaw Ghetto-like quarantine zone in Boston? Yeah get out of here. You're gonna have to find some other bullshit argument to justify Joel's actions.
@@neontime8507 im friendly but people still hated me in highschool for being better at sports than them. im just saying, you dont have to be an asshole for someone to dislike you. there will 100% always will be someone who hates your guts
I honestly thought the Game was going to be about Ellie's revenge against the Cult because they destroyed Jackson and killed everyone with Joel barely surviving but manages to recover and then catches up with Ellie sacrificing himself to save her Edit: I thought of this because of the Trailers
Even i admit that. But its sadly how the system is set up to be. Aslong as you read your way out of the problems. And just know what to do. You generally are gonna be living life you want for yourself and others in a sense. Sounds preachy i know, but in the end, never give up in what you like to do in life. Thats what matters
But its also how culture works, like example is American culture since hippie era. Every stereotype one can think of "child killer, inbred racist for the south" then you elect Trump probably because of how mean and vicious the left side was. If people didnt act so mean to each other then i dont think people would act this way. Its a reflection of how people are in a society, aswell as history, past, hate, anger, envy, lack of knowing, lack of understanding. Its a very cruel state of mind. If people find a way to fight through it, you usually end up better i think
from the last of us part 1: (edit) Sam: "What are you afraid of?" Ellie: "ending up alone." Last of us part two: Write that down! That is brilliant! We should do that!
I mean, that was definitely intentional. From a storytelling standpoint that's a perfect example of cruel irony; her greatest fear is ending up alone and that's precisely how she ends up
When it comes to human beings, when it comes to the human race, there is a constant. And that constant is whenever we get something that can help us, whenever we get a new technology, our next order of business is to weaponize it. Whether it be the tools that our ancestors used in the caves, gunpowder, nuclear energy or social media, it can help us. And after we learn that, we weaponize it. Always. - Jeremy Jahns That shit hit home.
I do think it's too simplistic to actually be meaningfull though. Like it sounds profound, but when you think about it, he's saying that inventions that do good can also be used to exude power over others. Saying 'we' makes it sound like humanity is one big hivemind that does good and evil, while that is not true. The inventor of polio actually didn't profit of it, just to ensure that everyone could be freed of this horrid disease. Good inventions can be solely used for good. Now why is this important? Let's take his example of the cure in this game: it's bad a cure is made, because it will be used to hold power over others. First, yes, that might happen, but not having a cure will mean a LOT of people die in a horrible way. Second, the parallel he draws with the real world can be easily deconstructed with the example of the medicine we have today. Do pharmaceutical companies drive up the price of medicine to get filthy rich of the backs of sick people? Yes. Would it have been better if we didn't have insulin or the cure for polio? Obviously not.
@@_Lynnteressant_ Polio *vaccine*, he didn't invent the pathogen - and he had to fight every inch of the way to stop his discovery being a cash cow for someone.
We weaponize it. And it's still OK. Because alternative of not having those things is worse. You can topple an empire, you cannot revive humanity if it dies to mushroom disease
@@_Lynnteressant_ well, with the polio thing, when that researcher published his findings, he did so that it could be taken up and replicated by other scientists around the world. in the world of TLOU apparently, only a handful of scientists(or just abbys dad) had the ability to synthase a vaccine for this epidemic(which seems pretty stupid). So, in that sense, it would be very easy for someone to monetize the cure. i think thats what he was referring to
it’s funny to see how many people, when playing as abby going up against ellie, just stood there. it annoyed me how much the game trusted in the fact that we wanted to hurt ellie in any way
@@liquidsnakeckw It's not being conflicted if you literally have no choice or you can't progress in the game. Unless you mean conflicted why I should continue playing the game? Now that's a good point. Probably not intended by the developers though.
Yea here I am bouta go nitpicky on your ass for a sec. *exhales deeply* Charlie and the chocolate factory was actually the reboot that starred Johnny Depp who in no part of it said the iconic line. You’re talking about the OG Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory starring Gene Wilder who said it in all his full charming glory.
@@rhetiq9989 Not nitpicking. You're clarifying. If people went off only the information prior to yours, they would have been confused or thought the OP was a liar.
Everyone I've seen has done this, it's hilarious. I've never rooted for the 'enemy' of the game to kill my own character so much in any game that I can remember.
@@samuelhawes6735 yeah exactly I couldn't believe they were making me do this so I just let Ellie shoot me to death because I physically could not come to terms with fighting Ellie. Nah not making me do it .
They both realized how much damage the cycle of revenge actually does, that’s why they broke the cycle, because if Lev lost Abby, he would probably be put on the path of revenge as well and he’s also the reason why Abby shared Dina, so Ellie would never have it in her to kill him
Harry Paul idk what you’re on about just cause the character wasn’t named in the first game. Joel unloaded on a room full of doctors who were innocent at that point. Consequences exist in the world and he paid for it. If you thought TLOU was sunshine and rainbows with happy endings you’re playing the wrong game
When Jeremy talks about the perspective of being a parent and the way that influences decision-making... I don't think the writers thought that far when writing the ending
The worst part is that they laid it out for themselves from the beginning game. Only thing more egregious is GOT not sticking the landing because they couldn't think past George's ideas lmao
I can't believe Ellie just abandoned Dina and their one year adorable baby boy to try and kill Abby, who was 1,044 miles away in Santa Barbara. There's no way she leaves them behind to survive on their own in the zombie apocalypse. What a stupid game. Smh.
@@c13lack5 The game doesn't do a good job of explaining HOW or WHY Ellie should forgive Abby. Both of those characters spent very little time with reflection, introspection, remorse, etc. Abby betrays the WLF because she has a nightmare. Ellie aborts her revenge mission because of a one second vision (that contradicts her earlier must-kill-Abby vision). Remember, Ellie and Abby are mirrors. Everything that happens to Ellie also happens to Abby (which is another problem with the story, but different topic). Anyway, Ellie couldn't forgive Seth over a much smaller transgression, but she could easily forgive Abby over murdering Joel, Jesse, beating her pregnant girlfriend and ruining her happy life. The forgiveness wasn't earned. The characters barely had a discussion about their grievances and definitely found no common understanding. The game only shows the story from the perspective of the victim, not the perpetrator. It's kind of hard to forgive without actually listening or thinking about things. The best dialogue in the game happened between Ellie and Nora, but Ellie still beat her to death with a pipe. Naughty Dog was unable to successfully convince the audience that Abby deserved forgiveness and that Ellie should forgive her. The ending seemed like a random, unexplainable act of kindness because we don't see an actual setup. Ellie doesn't learn. Ellie doesn't grow. Key character moments were rushed. They didn't stick the landing, but broke an ankle. Ellie killed hundreds of people in violent and unsettling ways and she still just kept on killing. The writers setup Abby and Lev to look like Joel and Ellie. Abby is protective and dedicated to Lev just like Joel was to Ellie. Lev is broken and beaten and experiencing (hearing) Abby get murdered by Ellie - just like Ellie was broken and beaten and experienced Joel get murdered by Abby. Ellie only shows mercy to Abby because Abby and Lev _remind her of Joel and herself._ It's a major plot convenience and plot contrivance. If Abby didn't have her relationship with Lev, then Abby would be dead many times over. The only thing that broke the revenge cycle was coincidence. That doesn't make a good revenge-mercy story. Ellie didn't realize that revenge is bad, violence is bad or feel remorse for her actions. Lev was the catalyst. She didn't want to do to Lev what had been done to her... which is BS. Lev helped Abby ambush them in the theater and shot an arrow into Dina. Yara helped Abby defeat Tommy and toss him into the river. Lev (and Yara) were still the enemy. So it's weird that Lev would cause Ellie to feel the 'regret of violence' and grant mercy.
This is basically what I got from this game: Everything you love doesn't matter, because other people love things too. But they all think you're an asshole.. And if you want to learn guitar, you will lose your father figure... Such a profound experience.
This is how they should have written last of us part 2 Prologue- Abby walks into the firefly hospital and finds her dad dead on the floor. then the title appears. sidenote- Ellie and Dina has actually been dating for 2 years instead of them having there first kiss at the party we saw at the e3 demo Ellie and Dina are at the party we saw at the E3 demo and it's there 2 year anniversary of them dating. the next morning Ellie and Dina go on the patrol mission. Joel and Tommy saves Abby. Abby leads them into a trap with the rest of WLF. Joel gets beaten with Abby's bare hands. Ellie and Dina shows. Dina gets her throat slit. Tommy gets shot to death. Joel gets shot in the head but doesnt die because the bullet deflects off his skull. The place gets overrun by clickers forcing Abby and WLF to flee. Ellie is able to get Joel out of there. few months later Ellie and Jesse sneaks out of Jackson to go on the revenge mission. Joel and Maria finds out that they left and goes after them. during mission Ellie and Jesse's relationship grows and Ellie eventually falls in love with Jesse and they have a romance scene learning that Ellie is not lesbian but she's bisexual. but on her journey with jesse she has flashbacks of her moments with Dina. on Joel and Maria's journey Joel has flashbacks of him, Tommy, and Ellie. Joel and Maria eventually catches up with Ellie and Jesse. But During a shootout Maria gets shot. Joel tells Jesse to take Maria back to Jackson, While Joel and Ellie continue their quest for revenge. During their journey their relationship starts to develop and Ellie starts to understand why Joel got her out the hospital. Joel and Ellie makes it to the WLF Camp. Joel and Ellie kill the remaining WLF members. Joel and Ellie finally kills Abby and goes home.
That awkward moment when Jeremy word-rambles a better Part 2 leading into a more compelling Part 3 than Naughty Dog and makes Abby way more interesting and relatable as a result. I feel like they were so eager to rush into this story that they missed very valuable time they could’ve used to tell a Part 2 that led into this story being Part 3.
Unfortunately the answer is finding a job and lifestyle that renders you the least amount of sympathetic nervous system activations per week, and a job/lifestyle that affords you adequate time for recuperating when in rest phase, to repair damaged cells. 'Sympathetic Dominance' - causing prolonged elevated cortisol levels, decreases collagen and muscle mass, eventually leading to shortened telomeres. Or yes, finding a Fountain of Youth or Holy Grail, that would work also.
@@ians_parks Everybody was killing everybody. it's the end of the world! Dog eat dog. Every man for himself. Joel wasn't alone. He was just one of the better ones.
Neil Druckmann on Abby: "Abby is a wonderful character!" TLOU fans to Abby: "You are an ill-made, spiteful little creature full of envy, hate, and low cunning."
@Felix Kaletsch but like…that’s a direct result of Abbey’s actions. Sure Ellie is obviously her own person who makes her own decisions, and she got to the point she did for a reason. Well many reasons that is. But Abbey murdered Joel, made Ellie watch, then killed Jessie, crippled Tommy, and assaulted Dina. She caused Ellie so much trauma that I’d say it’d be pretty hard to see Ellie having gone in another direction.
@@jackmcdonald5237 Abby murdered Joel because Joel killed her father. Ellie then went on to murder a bunch of Abby’s friends in cold blood despite them only being guilty by association. So then Abby retaliates by killing Jesse and shooting Tommy (who murdered Abby’s friend) You can be selective to how you want to frame how things happened to justify your hatred for Abby but you’re being very disingenuous. Your beloved heroes are just as fucked up as Abby and you can pull these mental gymnastics all you want but that won’t change the facts.
I can't really imagine Hitman getting killed. He's like the Mark Zuckerberg of assassins. He's inhuman. John Wick nearly died in chapter 3 so it's possible for him, but Hitman, no.
This never makes sense yet people keep repeating the joke. It's more if the dog actually killed Theon's dog and Theon killed it out of revenge. Stupid but people keep saying this dumb shit and it's the worst analogy ever. It's more like if Ezio killed a dozen guards to reach Rodrigo Borgia and he just let's him live... oh wait
Yara's departure hit me harder. I had to pause the game for a couple of minutes to let it sink in. She's on the ground and she's just peppered with bullets for half a second, and then she's gone.
I think the thing everyone, most importantly the characters, is forgetting is that the Fireflies told Joel that they would have to kill her for a chance at a cure, but there was no guarantee. So they may have killed her and then it would be a waste.
@@jameslanier2510 no, in the game they say they don't know if they would be able to make a vaccine. They said they would have to kill her to try for a vaccine, but there was no guarantee they could make one.
that would actually be a really interesting ending, seeing it from abbys perspective and then finish it with a monologue from abby playing over Ellie living her life at the farm
I would rather play a game that makes me feel that much disconfort that a pointless side story that makes no sense or a story full of fanservice because it doesn't think i can handle the grim reality of such a world.
Same here, it would've made seeing Abby's perspective much easier or "better". Then, they could've made this one that would solidify and end all three of their stories.
Maybe Neil just want to do a reverse of that. Instead of the 6-finger guy, it was -2 fingers Ellie instead. And instead of Inigo getting vindicated, he just lets the guy walk away.
"You know, it's very strange... I've been In the revenge business for so long, now that it's over I don't know what to do with the rest of my life". While we see Inigo take his revenge. He doesn't glorify it once it's over. In fact he laments it. I suppose this is what we would have wanted for Ellie, to realize that revenge wasn't worth it after the fact, because that has a bigger impact when she realizes that revenge didn't make her feel better or bring Joel back.
@@chucheeness7817 why yall acting like Abby walked away all roses and sunshine? Last I checked, she had lost every person she cared about except lev, was considered a traitor by her people, had been a slave for 3 months, and looked like a sunburnt skeleton. I'd say Ellie would have done her a favor if she killed her. She got her revenge in spades.
@@supergatorhator Losing your only father figure, life partner and her child, losing a good friend>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a bunch of friends who she didn't even show caring about
@@benjaminjane93 So what's the point of a full length revenge story with no resolution? This would've worked so much better as a short story in a seperate IP. 20 hours of "revenge is pointless" is... well, *pointless.* This story could've been told in 20 minutes, instead of 20 hours.
I feel like the whole game is Ellie trying to find the meaning/purpose she thought her life was supposed to have that Joel robbed her of. Just after she’s taken the first step of forgiving Joel and finally accepting what he did, he gets killed. She never got to fully forgive him. I think when she saw Joel get killed, all her trauma and internal dissonance attached itself to the most animalistic, instinctive purpose it could, which is revenge. Getting revenge was the only way to fill this existential hole, and she was obsessed and addicted to this prospect of revenge. Of course, it wasn’t until she basically got what she’d been obsessing over that she realized it wouldn’t fill that hole, because the only lasting/true meaning in life is love. Her sparing of Abby and Dev was, on some level, an act of love, because it was an act of forgiveness (even if Ellie wouldn’t admit that). That’s why the last Joel cutscene is so powerful to me, because only then is it revealed that Ellie, despite her darkness and pain, is a loving person at her core and has the ability (or at least desire) to forgive an unforgivable act. That’s why the Ellie/Joel flashbacks are structured the way they are, as I see it
I couldn't agree more. In those final flashbacks it became clear to me that one of her main driving factors was her guilt. The guilt of shutting Joel out for so long. When she snapped at him for standing up for her, the pain in his eyes tore my heart in two.
what purpose? the entire first game we see ellie talking about being scare of being alone (that scene with sam, joel scene when ellie escape and the final scene of her killing david). i understand after the jiraffe scene she still wanted to go to the fireflies, but she didnt know that she was going to fucking die. do joel even explain to her about that? that they were planning to kill her for their cause? no. what was the goal of ellie?it make no sense. if she was so afraid of being alone ,why the hell she would be cool with being a tool for strangers? aside of marlene she doesnt know any of the fireflies. is a dumb excuse to make her be mad at joel. it make no sense.
@@FZJanimated It makes perfect sense if you played the game. From the last frames of the first game it's clear she just wanted to stop the cycle of pain from the virus. That she wanted her journey to the fireflies to mean something more. It makes perfect sense that she would resent Joel for taking that away from her, whether he was saving her life or not.
@@splashnskillz37 It makes you think though, with the war between scars and wlf, the cannibals, the psychos... most of the monsters in the game aren't even infected.
Out of all the organized groups of people we’ve seen though, they were the least likely to fall into that trapping. Even if they did employ the tactic against some others, it still would’ve been better than the alternative. It’s a moot point and one reflective of individual interpretation existing outside of narrative presentation and creator intention. He’s grasping for straws basically, a better argument would be to talk about not having any consultation with Ellie first.
You guys think you are so slick. This is basically a rehash of the "This is like a John Wick movie with John Wick not killing the guy who killed his dog". Like we haven't heard that comment a million times already. Some of you guys really didn't understand the plot either.
@@jameslanier2510 I would like to say that Abby should've atleast felt a bit of hesitation before killing her allies. It's almost as if killing her own comrades is just a normal day at work for her. She is a psychopath
@@jameslanier2510 I know damn well she isn't a psychopath but the gameplay and the cutscenes really don't cooperate very well. During gameplay, Abby kills her allies the same way she would kill a fuckin scar. I expect a bit more change to the gameplay since they were her allies but no. It's like if in GoW when Atreus is being a brat, he listens to your orders all the time, that would be a disconnect between cutscenes and gameplay. But they didn't do that and they choose to cooperate the gameplay and cutscenes very well.
I would like to see Scars perspective on why he and mufasa don’t get along ... heck, we don’t even know his real name .. they called him scar cause of the one he had on his eye.... who gave it to him?
Look up how actual lions work in the wild. Scar's resentment likely stemmed from his big brother not allowing him to breed. He would not only never he king, but he would also never get laid. Mufasa might have also murdered any females that refused to mate as well as any cubs born to rival lions. Yeah, Scar is suddenly a victim of his own nature!
9:43 Also, Joel loves Ellie like she’s his daughter, so obviously he was going to save her. I think that it’s easy for us to judge Joel on his decision and say he doomed humanity because it’s not our own child that we are sacrificing but someone else’s. Notice in the tlou2, when the doctor was ready to kill Ellie for the vaccine, Marlene asked him if it was his daughter, would he do it ? and he couldn’t answer. Joel wanted for Ellie what anybody would want for their own kid, to live and find happiness and love and make friends and experience life to the fullest with its ups and downs like everyone else.
The doctor wasn't even a good guy. He never explained the procedure to joel or ellie nor did he get proper consent from ellie letting her know she would die from the procedure. Also he wants to withhold the info from joel but then the girl says they have to tell him. When he finds out he WITHDRAWS consent for the procedure. The doctor then says "I won't let you take her" so joel had no choice. Also, never heard of a vaccine that would cure a FUNGAL INFECTION! So not sure why they would want to kill the only possible cure they could experiment with.
Just to add joel murdered abbys father and ellie murdered her whole family, then learning why they did it but still wanting to after abby to get revenge. In all honesty abby should of killed ellie but then ellie wouldnt have been able to save her.
@@ericdasilva4514 that always bothered me, like why not let her live her life? When the time is right if shes willing to lay down her life for a cure then so be it.
The main problem I have with people saying “It’s good that she spared Abbie” is that you need to keep in mind all Ellie did up to that point was kill literally everyone who stood in the way between her and Abbie. Are their lives worth less?
I’m not saying that you’re wrong at all, but it’s important to keep in mind that Ellie has been conditioned to see those people as collateral damage. She only spared Abbie because she was humanized for her and she remembered how to be kind. Again, it’s fucked up that she killed so many people, but it makes sense with how she sees the world
It’s honestly hilarious, that they tried to tell an already extremely overdone revenge story that’s been told good and bad many times over, with all that reference, they still fucked up the message.
Yep. It is such a shitty storytelling to have ellie kill without remorse hundreds npc who begged for mercy and show any kind of remorse in the cutscenes. In the gameplay ellie is a psychopath. In the cutscenes when we don't have random npcs ellie shows some kind of remorse because ... of reasons.
Yes his rework of the current story were joel dies in part 3 is much better.(i still like the game the story is a complex beautiful, depressing mess) The mercenary word garbage sounds like something that should be in part 3 with new characters set in Europe or Asia
Angry Joe had a better idea too. If they insist on Abby killing Joel Why not introduce Abby earlier, make it less random & less of a coincidence. Add friendship to Ellie in Jackson or otherwise outside of the community. & then later have her kill Joel unexpectedly once she learns who they really are. That would have been much more impactful & emotional if we already liked Abby to begin with & spent time with her previously as a buddy side character doing stuff with Ellie in earlier gameplay. The way they did it comes off as a cheap shock factor coincidence with no build up or earned anticipation for me.
Angry Joe had the same idea. If they want us to love and care about Abby, don't make them kill off the character that everyone loves in the beginning. They should've built up to that. Ellie being pissed at Joel. Ellie meets Abby, they bond, we see their struggles, we see their conflicts, especially when Abby finds out about Ellie knowing Joel and Ellie finding out Joel killed her father and friends would've been a better story.
Sir Prize what fucking agenda? If you make this about Ellie being gay or Abby being muscular then that’s a personal prejudice w yourself cuz the game doesn’t have an agenda. Just a message about violence that has nothing to do with orientation or representation.
@@TheEmc2000 no a story becomes an agenda when some sjw writer decides white straight men are privileged and have to be killed off(The Last Jedi, Dark Fate, Charlie's Angels) no matter if they were good characters you tear them down and sacrifice them to push a woke narrative, got it?
I am getting to a weird conclusion: If giving up revenge in the end still cost me everything, I might as well get my revenge. So...I don't know what message ND is trying to push anymore.
That just going on the path of revenge may harm you even if you don't finish it. What happens if you finish it, will depend on how you react to it, it may cause even more harm .
@Lori Voss Choices in the game have never really been Naughty Dog's style. I can appreciate both having them and not. Different tools for different styles of storytelling. You can't make sure your players go through the specific emotional journey you wanted for them if they can opt out of it.
Because the kid who convinced Abby to spare Dina and Ellie, is in the boat near them. Killing Abby and dooming him to die would just solidify her monstrous identity. She's gotta stop killing at some point or lose herself completely, so she spared Abby to save Lev. A much more innocent life.
@@faizaiman4292 well for one there's big NO TRESSPASSING signs on the entrances to WLF territory. And both the WLF and the seraphites have the "kill all trespassers" as their intentions. So she didn't murder half of Seattle lol. At that point it's called self defence. If there's one life that doesn't deserve to die at the expense of Ellie's feud with Abby, it's Lev. She sees herself in Lev, Saving Lev means she saves whatever bit of her soul she has left from, yes, killing hundreds, killing a pregnant woman, torturing someone etc. Killing some more on that beach would just solidify the murderous identity that we're both agreeing she has. She has to stop at some point, killing Abby and dooming Lev to die, would mean she would've learned nothing from the death she had both caused and witnessed. The ending of the game would be exactly the same, it can either end with her doing a good deed or just killing some more. So I've essentially just repeated myself because for some reason you can't grasp that she can either kill some more and carry on being a vengeful merciless killer. Or spare a life and save one, and save whatever humanity she has left. It's not very complicated lol. Darth Vader murders thousands but no-one bats an eye when he redeems himself by killing old man Hitler to save his son.
@@helenline1790 So by the logic of Joel killing an NPC doctor who's Abby's father, who knows how many tons of people are seeking revenge against Abby and Ellie after all the people they killed.
Hei5enBerg_501st Didn’t click with me at all bro. Though I’ll admit, lev was the one whom i felt bad for. He’s the one truly suffering from all of this.
It's him living in a normal community for four years and not being a mercenary killing innocent people constantly. Its not far-fetched that he let his guard down
I agree Ellie staying on the farm wouldve been a good ending because she let go of revenge and got rewarded with a nice life. But that moment when tommy comes back and you learn he lost maria presumably because of his obsession wity abby is a really cool moment where the player doesnt want ellie to follow in tommys footsteps. I wouldnt have had a problem with the games ending if it were more clear she got back with dina. This would follow the theme of the universe rewards you if you let go of your hate, we still took your guitar playing for trying again to kill abby but at least you still have a family.
But she saved Abby and the Asian kid instead of killing Abby and stopped the cycle of revenge and lost everything in saving them. Went right over the fanbases head
@@memecliparchives2254 everyone is missing many salient points. 1. Abby didn't kill Ellie when she had the chance. 2. Abby protecting the kid parallels the Joel/Ellie relationship in part 1. By killing Abby she would be killing the kids protector. 3. It stops the cycle of revenge. It also ties in nicely with that Flashback of Joel, and the ramifications of choices we make. 4. Ellie saves two lives instead of taking one. 5. It won't bring Ellie comfort, it won't bring Joel back. 6. Ellie loses everything in seeking revenge anyway regardless of whether Abby lives or dies. This all goes over the heads of the majority of the fanbase. Ellie choosing NOT to kill is far more powerful. Much harder to do. And IS closure. I genuinely think Ellie getting revenge is FAR more cliched. And resolves nothing. Gives no insight. No development. And just perpetuates the cycle. I think it's a worse ending, and the general player just...doesn't get that. And Ellie did get closure. She stopped the cycle. And she can begin anew. That glimmer of hope as she leaves the house
@@vrtrooper3801 but what's the circle of revenge? Joel had every right to save ellie and slaughter everyone. It's like Jeremy said in the 1st game it wasn't girl dies and world lives, it's girl dies the world might live. Everyone is a dick yeah but personal story wise it was stupid.
Trundu revenge and hatred would be the common quo in the zombie apocalypse, kindness is a moot act. It’s everyone for themselves and maybe a few people you care about. It’s a pseudo-deep message for the wrong game/setting. Ellie should’ve popped a cap in her ass.
Onkar Bonkar I like to think she goes looking for Dina, idk on the spoilercast Druckmann said its up to interpretation. But the game ends with something to do with Joel/Ellie
John Wick: kills the guy who killed his dog and all of his henchmen in between. Beatrix Kiddo: kills the guy who killed her fiancè along with presumably her daughter and all of his henchmen in between, despite knowing her daughter's still alive. Similarities: both are hell bent on revenge and gets the job done. The guilt is there and shaped them to be a new character. Ellie: spared the girl who killed her father figure and killed all of her henchmen in between. Despite killing almost everyone involves on her father figure's killing, she didn't finished her job leaving her in an incomplete cycle and her character would stay on that state of anger and killing again would be a walk in the park for her. This is seen because not finishing what she supposed to do, would only makes her PTSD even worse and makes her even more broken in the end. What a way to end a cherished character. A waste.
You know that's just what the game wants to do. She left her alive because she could see that both of them...herself and Abby have nothing left in the path of revenge. It's not waste of the character...you just have ....I guess different taste of revenge storytelling. What last of us did was amazing and nuanced storytelling. She saw Abby as a 'joel' figure for Lev and let her go....to break the cycle of revenge and be better after realising this path of vengeance started by Abby and continued by her resulted in them losing everything. She spared that fate for Lev. A kind of person Joel would want her to become. It's not bad storytelling. It's just ain't ur taste.
@@shivampachauri7551 "She saw Abby as a 'joel' figure for Lev" and then she threatens to kill unconscious Lev with a knife to goat Abby into a fight. When Ellie's revenge mode is on, I don't think she cares or even realizes that killing Abby wouldn't bring her peace. I think it's great that Ellie spared Abby but her decision was so contrived and arbitrary that I just can't buy that ending. It reminds me of GoT season 8 when Daenerys suddenly turns into the mad queen even tho there was nothing beforehand that foreshadows that sudden character turn. Very much like Ellie going from a revenge hungry killing machine instantly to a reasonable human being who knows that revenge wouldn't bring back the father she had lost and wouldn't bring her peace. See the similarities? Humans don't just change their motivations and goals entirely because of a random flashback that happens out of nowhere. Failure in execution
@@jasonalv7436 I don’t think she spared abby because she turned into a “ reasonable person “ it’s quite the opposite , she is just a broken young person who is going through the stages of grief which makes any person do unreasonable and conflicted things , she went for abby because she is sick and she spared her because she is sick not because she realized that it’s wrong , she simply didn’t know what to do or how to feel especially when she knows deep inside that she didn’t forgive joel for what he did but still feels regret for not spending time with him , in this way you can never predict what she’s going to do , if she killed abby it will work and if she didn’t it will also work
@@yousifxg4mer318 so she is broken which resulted in her wanting to kill Abby. But because she is also broken she decided to spare Abby. Then what's stopping her from suffering from PTSD again and going after Abby again? From what the game showed us, she clearly stopped because of a flashback of Joel. A flashback that came out of nowhere. The reason Ellie went for revenge is because her last words to Joel was her insulting and berating him, which resulted in her feeling like she owes him. But the flashback she had was the last conversation she had with him and it shows signs of reconciliation. Because of this flashback, Ellie's motivation for revenge is not because she owes Joel and she felt guilty for berating him this whole time but because Abby took her chance of forgiving him and it pissed her off. Joel even said that he would do it all over again so Ellie knows the last thing he would want her to do is put herself in danger, so she did that very thing??
Abdool777 it's easy to miss the point of said person should be conflicted after being saved by the one she's hunting - see its easy to look like a tool
@@KimiraDreams they really put so much effort to try and make us feel bad for killing that one doctor from the first game, the one guy that a lot of people tried not to kill in their play through.
That's beautiful. Couldn't have said any of that better myself. We definitely share some of the same thoughts on this game, and we totally did the same thing when faced with the "Ellie" boss fight!
So Ellie loses.... - Joel. - her girlfriend and child. - her comfortable life. - her chance to kill Abby and make things right. - two fingers which in the process made her lose her guitar playing. What was even the point of that ending?? And then we just see her set off into the unknown and it ends with a cutscene of Ellie basically saying she almost hates Joel? *Just WOW*
When I look at it like that. Ur absolutely right. Ellie’s ending was worse than Joel’s because Ellie’s number one fear is being alone. How could they do that man?!
Abby thought that by murdering Joel in cold blood and by telling Ellie she never wants to see her again, the message would be clear and she would thrive elsewhere.
She didn't fail. She broke the cycle. Her issue was that she could never forgive. She couldn't forgive Joel, and she couldn't forgive Abby. This destroyed her relationships; both with Joel and Dina. Letting Abby live is the first time she actually succeeded. We don't get to see it (yet) but it's strongly implied that she'll thrive by the imagery of the ending.
@@Leomerya12 Right... the cycle is broken. Tell that to everyone Abby and Ellie killed so far. I despise these kind of pretentious stories that think they are talking about a deep philosophy issue of human nature. Only to ignore the fact the world is not the same has our own so common sense or rules don't necessarily apply here. Not to mention you forgot an important fact about any revenge story. You must dig two graves, one for your target and another for yourself. Only then can the so called cycle be broken. To break it without using any violence is impossible if you killed anyone during it. By sparing Abby and Ellie, who alongside Joel killed many people, the story ensures that now, more people are going to get dragged into it, has they pursue these two for killing their father or mother or brother or just anyone really. So don't try to say that they will live a better live now, because by the logic of this story, the cycle is only just restarting now.
@@Leomerya12 The fact that she couldn't forgive joel is not only preposterous because it is inconsistent with ellie's character from the first game, where she understands joels pain and his love for her, but also as jahn said in the video, because she actually became a mother !! And the fact is, you can't forgive someone by forgiving someone else. thats not how it works. especially since the ways abby and joel wronged her are completely different. what would be her reasoning for forgiving joel after saving abby? i just forgave this bitch who killed you, so yeah joel i forgive you?
@@Leomerya12 that random person Ellies shot 1ce there while playing well their cousin is on a revenge mission now. That random dude abby murderd well his wifes niece is on a revenge mission now....... Stopthe bs no cycle was broken its just convenient plot. As Jeremy was saying it makes no sence. In the story or for the players. There is no reason fo me to feel attached to Abby literally none.
@@thelonewolf2929 Well in the case of this game,it's unfortunate that the dog was commanded to attack the wrong mofo. People that automatically place animals above humans are just as shite as the people they claim to dislike so much.
The gameplay was FUN , the story was FUN , the music was FUN to listen to , and it had Ma'ams ( which was FUN to watch ). Yeah. It was a FUN game Neil. Oh wait ... Oops 🙊
bill nye the russian spy I don’t think games HAVE to be inherently “fun,” but when you go out of your way to make a game this joyless, don’t be shocked when people don’t like it.
*LOU1 Joel:* Barely trusts anyone, is resourceful, cunning, determined, always has some sort of exit strategy *LOU2 Joel:* Puts his trust in a mansion full of strangers and dies by golfclub
I am shocked how few - basically no - people seem to mention how this is a total rip-off of the Negan/Glenn thing.. Which was handled way better (in the comics).
Outbreak of Covid-19: panic buying, people actually avoiding each other, shaming others for not social distancing Restrictions being eased: thousands descending on beaches, masks being abandoned, people seem to forget Covid-19 is still out there The point of this is that when people become more comfortable, they become less cautious. Joel got comfortable in Jackson and let his guard down for a moment and it cost him dearly.
@@BlazingOwnager Especially Negan having a legit reason to be pissed about it, especially in the TV show. Because in there, hes supposed to kill one of them who was Abraham and make the rest be his slaves. But Daryl just had to play hero because he thinks he's so high and mighty of himself just as everyone in Rick's group does and everything Negan's threat that hell shut that shit down no exceptions, he didn't lie.
@@Sam-mi9wi Joel isn't a normal citizen though, Joel was a hardened survivor who had been doing this shit for over 20 years, 4 years of normalcy would not change that, and it wasn't even too normal, as it was still post apocalyptic and they were constantly out searching for bandits and infected.
@@Sam-mi9wi Jackson is heavily patrolled and there's a reason why he and Tommy are the main ones on patrol. If he's gone soft, he shouldnt be out on patrol.
Tommy: You'll should come back with us.. restock Mel: Appreciate that. I'm Mel by the way Tommy: I'm Sam and this is my brother Joel: Nate... Roll Credits
Except Tommy named Joel many times during their escape. When they were swarmed with infected so they really didn't have time to come up with cover names. She knew who he was before they walked into that room
Tommy already tells Abby their names when they meet, lying to the group after that would've only raised more suspicion. You'd know that if you payed any attention.
@@bew1977 Why did Tommy give their names in the first place?, it was unnecessary and convenient for Abby (luck was on her side for almost all the game), she depended on Tommy being an idiot who did not distrust a total stranger.
I love how they say that Abby's father was the only doctor that could make a vaccine when that is a major plot hole, considering how Marlene before dying in the first game asks Joel for mercy as they can still make a vaccine with Ellie. Seems like they forgot everything about the last game.
@@dero45 Maybe but why bring up Ellie into it, maybe if she was just talking about herself than yeah but even if she got away with it, they would still try to get Ellie
I mean Marlene was really riding on this so much. In her journals she says how a lot of her people are losing hope and are just abandoning everything but when Ellie was found hope was restored as all those fireflies saw that a cure was possible. Marlene was desperately trying to hold onto what light there was in that dark world.
Marlene cut them off in the garage, Jerry's death was only minutes beforehand, it's very likely she had no idea Joel had just killed the only surgeon capable of making a vaccine. I recommend you watch the scene again. Also Marlene asking for mercy happens after she pleads with Joel to let Ellie go.
Abby kills her own to save some random kid she met a few hours ago: HERO Joel kills random ppl who tried to kill ellie for a cure that probably wouldn't work out: DEATH
@@charan3119 I'd say both Ellie and Abby were, at points, villians throughout this story. Abby's story kind of mirrors Joel's - someone who had done some truly fucked things, but managed to find some level of redemption in taking care of a child who acted as their moral compass. Ellie lets herself become so consumed by her hate that she loses everything, and it's only when she's standing at the precipice of killing Abby, and by extension killing Lev, that she lets go of the hate and tries to move on.
@@supergatorhator Yeah, I get that on paper, they're essentially the same character, but the execution this time round wasn't done as well. Abby has the personality of dry paint and so does Lev. The selling point of the first game was Joel teaching Ellie to survive, and Ellie helping Joel learn how to love again. Add on top of that some phenomenal acting and chemistry. I just don't think you can really say the same for Abby and Lev. I also don't think the revenge plot really fits the characters and this universe, but I guess that could just be personal taste.
It's really funny how when you play as Abby in that Ellie boss fight, Ellie would just kill Abby without hesitation or thought, but in that stupid ending she's like noooo it's not worth it. Stupid writing
Or maybe bcuz at time abby was actually willing to fight her than plus she just watch jessis die and saw Tommy shot I mean abby literally showed this women mercy twice.. It got all her friends dead and tortured.. U really saying ellie wud of still been in right??
@@shelbywilliams5912 and Abby showing mercy was stupid. If you're going to kill someone important to someones else do you think they won't come back for revenge?
@@aaroncohen2700 so your saying she wud been right... So are u also saying Ellie killing lev wub also right... Someone who save not only your but the woman u love also her baby which u urself wud come to love.. Total stranger tht never done u wrong but actually went out of her way to save you and other precious to u.. But guess so bcuz ellis was mc of first game mean she could no wrong
In the Ellie boss fight, Ellie had just seen Abby kill Jesse, shoot Tommy and threaten to kill Dina. Of course she wanted to kill Abby at that time. In their last fight, they had just both barely survived the Rattlers, and she saw how messed up Abby was. But she still tried her best to kill her, until the memory of her last conversation with Joel came back to her. In that conversation, she told Joel she could never forgive him for the awful thing he did, but she wanted to try. And she realized showing mercy to this other person that Joel wronged (he wronged them both) was a much better way to honor Joel. Good writing.
@@shelbywilliams5912 i think is not about she right but about real human reaction if you hand is full of blood for revange thare no way you can stop like God of war did kratos stop even when he know he wrong and literely destroy world for revange, no and it make sanse he not right, he evil but still make sanse than forgive zeus. Or like read dead redemption 2 when they get revenge he know if they going maybe he will lose everything that he build even his live but keep going any way It make sanse to forgive if ellie just go straight to Abby and no one alse than forgive her but no with you hand already full of blood. They Miss the point of story about revenge you lose everything after revenge is done, and lose offertunity to make part 3 about redemption
@@arnowisp6244 I mean, she's essentially been a career soldier for a decade fighting on the frontlines against both the infected and the military, and then against the infected and the serephites.
@@supergatorhator that still wouldn't give you that build. You'd have to take supplements and rigourasly workout on the regular to achieve that kind of build as a female. Her build is akin to a female powerlifter/bodybuilder.
@@supergatorhator Career soldiers are usually skinny because of stress, long hours, and poor nutrition. Sure, they have a baseline of muscle which is just enough to allow them to do what they do, but anything more is too inefficient to hold onto. Abby has a physique that puts most natural female bodybuilders to shame and their lives revolve around building lean mass. Bottom line is her body doesn't make sense from a physiological perspective unless she was using steroids, not a small dose either.
@@SubjectE57 Not exactly. The body type you are born and develop with has to do with it too. It was clear when she was young she was definitely gonna be big.
Last of Us 1: "He ain't even hurt" Last of Us 2: "Howdy strangers, the name's Joel Miller. Thought I'd walk into the middle of your armed group and ask if y'all wanted to come back home with us."
@@supergatorhator And you're about 100% incorrect. I bought the special edition with the art book I was so excited for this game. If you don't think that part was at the very least contrived, you definitely did not play it.
Atahualpas_Ghost actually they said they rarely visit the resort cabin, and if you actually played the game you’d realize there was a fucking blizzard and they didn’t think they’d make it to any of their outposts on horse which is where Abby suggests the resort, with literally no time and seemingly no other option they had to accept. They were being swarmed by infected left and right. And also don’t give me that “Joel never revealed his name to strangers in the last game bs” because joel and Ellie literally tell Henry and Sam their names within MINUTES of meeting them. So you can go ahead and shove that excuse back up your ass from where it came. The fact is that they had just saved Abby and Abby in turn had done her part to help them stay alive so they didn’t perceive any other motive for her. The game sets this up perfectly but you know. You have to be paying attention to really notice it.
I don't get why it's so fucking hard for people to get that after 4 years of relative safety, peace, and decent living in a strong, well-defended community, you might be more welcoming to outsiders. Ellie even comments how that's how it SHOULD be done, and mocks the WLF for killing trespassers on sight.
The sad bit is, a lot of ideas for better stories probably went through the developer's minds, but they may not have agreed on one so they just mashed them all together and made this, which satisfies no one
Thats how Neil described how they made the game, people would just throw out ideas , and he said I like that and put it in the game, I'm starting to wonder who were the actual talent in game story telling in the first game, because Neil was just a co-writer, we saw what Legend of Korra became a mess, when you look who was missing and guess what the head writer was, not the guys who thought of the original idea but someone who can actually tell a good story from crazy ideas.
I feel like the biggest issue with the game isn't even the plot. The issue is pacing. Switching between Abby and Ellie can be extremely jarring at times. (Especially after the theater scene) It would have played better as a Side A/Side B scenario.
I've said it a million times but I know what they were going for: Negan and Glenn from The Walking Dead comic. i.e. villain kills a beloved main character then becomes a main character. Too bad they bungled the execution just as badly as the TV show. Abby is a vacuum of charisma, she never shows any remorse for anything she's done, etc. The Negan thing worked because he actually reached a point of true remorse by the end. Elle has remorse in this game but Abby? Zero. Not one drop of humanity there.
They rushed to kill of Joel and then a few hours later explained Abby's tragic past instead of doing it the other way around (like every other well written tragic story out there), and by that point most people couldn't care less about her as a character let alone empathize with her. And if you hate her you literally hate playing 50% of this game.
@@BlazingOwnager no humanity? That's the whole point of Abby's arc to help out those two scars and turning against the wolf's. She was engulfed with rage but it didn't fix her life and just ruined the relationships around her.
@@BlazingOwnager Even worse, Abby keeps putting herself up on to higher and higher moral high grounds each time you play as her. Even when we find out she's a murderer, an adulterer, a traitor to her own friends etc. How are we going to like and relate to someone who gets worse the more we learn about them?
Yeah... that hurt... Pretty much every one of the Joel cutscenes was like a punch to the gut. I don't know if I've ever empathised with a character in a game the way I did with Ellie when re-living her memories of Joel.
If Ellie would've just stayed on the farm, Abby would be dead.
Let that marinate...
There is a TON to unpack in this game, and a lot of people don’t take a step back to do so because ReEeEeEeEEeEe MuH jOeL dIeD
Nathan Knaebel it’s not that Joel dies. I’m actually ok with the idea and story of Abby killing Joel. The issue is having to play with Joel’s killer for 10 hours, half of which you play while despising her for having killed Joel, and she also has the better missions and weapons. I’m cool with the story on paper, the execution was just very mediocre. I still think it’s a good game, the graphics are amazing, the gameplay is fun, and the atmosphere is tense and stressful. Only downside is the story isn’t good. Still a 6 or 7 out of 10 game regardless though. I just would have liked if Abby’s missions were cut in half and those extra hours given to playing as Ellie and that Ellie had the better missions/boss fights.
@@uchihajoel3064Have you noticed the parallel between Joel TLOU1 journey and Abby's journey?
Uchiha Joel My comment wouldn’t really apply to you because you’ve taken more time to use your brain than some people online I’ve interacted with.
I have my problems with this game as well.
@@natek987 When you blame the audience for being too uneducated to like the game. That my friend would be called arrogance. The audience says it's shit. Therefore it's shit.
*When people play as Abby during the Ellie boss fight*
“Reality can be whatever I want it to be”
Hoped I Wasn’t the only one who thought that. Thanks buddy, that was a pain
Lol you think a man can be a woman I bet too
@@Rockstopmotion Did you notice the MARKS :P
😂😂😂😂Thanos
I was literally the opposite. I wanted to lose as Ellie in the fight against Abby
Good point about ellie becoming a parent and not realising why Joel protected her.
She clearly understands. It's you who doesn't understand why Ellie is so upset.
Knight-Mares so abandoning her child and family life is a Joel thing to do? I don’t think even Joel would abandon Ellie for a piece of revenge
@@CoolCarGuy Yesssss
Knight-Mares start a family and come back to us.
@@ZanePalmer you schooled him 😂
Joel: Who are you?!
Abby: You killed my father.
Joel: Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?
Abby: My father was a doctor for the fireflies working on a cure for the infection.
Joel: I ain’t gonna repeat myself.
Abby: he was the doctor that operated on Ellie
Joel: ummm...just give me one more just one more
Abby: he had a scalpel
Joel: ......yeah...uh him.....still don’t really know what you’re talking about.
I know this is late, but is that a Batman Beyond reference? If so, kudos!
@@heikira438 it could be a batman reference in general im not really sure
You killed my father...prepare to die! lol
@@colinconsidine5209 You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means
I feel like a lot of people when they played as Abby killed her a lot in different ways. Not gonna lie it's pretty funny.
For me, the worst of it all was making us fight Ellie. I spent a very long time just letting Ellie kill me because it felt way better than trying to kill her.
@@fernicepeda96 I almost quit the game at that point
cant see the problem bro XD
Nah I killed Ellie a lot of different ways though. F Ellie
It took everything I had to drudge through the game after that point, that’s where it all fell apart.
It annoys me that every time Ellie gets out a perfectly preserved guitar she doesn’t put it back in its case.
Lol
For a 20 year old apocalypse. Man, there is a lot of guitars
King Kash i thought i was the only one who noticed that. like at least put it back in the case 😂
@@strikeforce1500 Guitars that only need one second of the same tuning.
@@strikeforce1500 Correction, 25 years now
It's funny how when I fought Ellie as a boss battle and died, my first thought was
"I see this as an absolute win."
It's okay to say it...it's the Only thought lol
I was pissed it wanted me to restart the fight!
Me too, I litrely ran up as abby towards Ellie and got shot many times, this is the true ending
@@Classyinsweden well in some games you have this alternate endings. this 10/10 does not because its a masterpiece
yes, everytime I died I was like " yeah Ellie kick her ass" and then I had to start again ugh
I woulda loved a game where Ellie gets mad at Joel for lying to her, and runs off for 2 years. Meets up with Abby, then they have adventures together but the moment Ellie says anything about Joel, Abby just leaves and goes 'Welp, I just found the man I need to kill.'
That woulf have been a better story than the shitty narrative we got. We could have seen even a romance or some kind of betrayal.
That would have made a much better story
Sounds fantastic to me. I wanted Abby to be all alone and get chased to Jackson or an area in the vicinity by the Scars. And she has to hold her emotions to herself once she finds out Joel is there because she has no choice. I would want her to get to be friends with Ellie as well so she could see why Joel did what he did. I would even like to see her and Joel go on a mission or something and for her to have a chance to kill him while his back is turned but she can't do it after getting to know more about him. And in the end, I would like to see Joel die saving Abby's and Ellie's life. They could still be more story parts and jaw-dropping reveals but I think it would've been better than what we got.
They did a piss poor job with the writing for part II. Sucker Punch did a fantastic job with how they handled Ghost of Tsushima character's fates.
wait he literally mentioned this in the video
@@ThaRedPitbull the story they did wasnt bad. its meant to be a dark world where people is out there for revenge since there is no law of killing someone. but the way they did the flashbacks in flashbacks was just annoying. the sub plot they did with Abby and the asian kids was soooooo irrelevant to the main plot. the flashbacks with her and her boyfriend or whatever was doing nothing. they were just fully unnecessary. im not mad Joel died, im mad that they wasted my time with a shitty subplot that leads to nothing.
Abby: You took everything from me!
Joel: I dont even know who you are..
He knows
You will
Wait that sounds like a line from the last avengers movie lol
Yet people who try to defend the game say "if you kill someone that a person loves,don't expect not to get hunted down for it" but how tf is he supposed to know all that if he hasn't even met the person 😂 or anyone related
Abbys story didn’t make sense, she goes looking for Owen yet Mel gets there in no time in the morning .... and Owen just spills the beans on banging Abby within a few minutes Abby leaves to get the scars.... then the scars and wlf kill each other .. I could had done without the Abby story. I hope there is no sequels.
“I don’t care. You killed Joel.”
LMFAO.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽end of story. That's all folks!
That's so stupid this game is so much bigger than joel
@dj king, I don’t care, she killed my video game dad
@@lilmupp875 - The problem is, in the first game, you play Joel. You learn him, you learn his mistake, you learn that he isn't a hero but you fall in love with him in every step what he made. Suddenly, boom, he is dead in Part 2. So no, that isn't a good "shocking" effect and that people must accept it. Wasn't a wise move. Now to try to tell the others that the game is bigger just than Joel, won't work.
Reminds me of Tony's "I don't care. He killed my mom" from Civil War which Jeremy directly references 5 seconds prior. Doesn't anyone remember that's the moment Tony became the villain?
The Last of Us fans: "The story sucks! They ruined these characters that we love!"
Game of Thrones fans: "First time?"
Terminator fans: "First time?"
Star Wars fans: "First time?"
I'd play the The Last Game of Terminator Wars.
JESUS can companies just listen to fans and not bias political views?
Coming Soon: MCU
lollololol
Assassin's Creed fans: First Time? Probably not the last.
I thought it would have been smart and cooler for the last of us 2 to have been advertised as a new group not attached to lou1. And the ending it comes full circle where her dad dies and everyone who’s now attached to Abby is like holy shit... and 3 would have all that tension ready
Yeah, that wpuld be definitely better.
That would've been awesome
That could have been a tough selling point with no Joel and Ellie. Personally, after I got over the jarring emotional cut of having to play as Abby, AGAIN, yet having forgotten all about playing her earlier altho I figured the early play was a setup to loop back to her. I got into Abby's story as it progressed and really felt for her over time which made both fights rough for me, especially the first.
Anyway, I intially had my doubts and thought the decision of Abby was very questionable but for me, it paid off. Emotionally jarring and I was torn. I do hope if there is a 3rd, she and Ellie encounter each somehow again and make amends. There we can see more of Ellie's growth.
@@TreyIM22 exactly, what they did was scam people by basing the marketing around Ellie and Joel. All they wanted was money, they lied to and disrespected the fans
I think everybody would’ve seen through that way too early on
"We're all an asshole to somebody." - Jeremy Jahns.
Can someone get shirts of this made?
I second that
Merchandise coming soon 😂
I’ll take 2
Teespring....
quit shilling for teespring
Everyone who let Abby die on purpose got the secret good ending
Especially when fighting Ellie 😂
My favorite part in that abomination
Pewdiepie did it again and again. As he said "it's the game that just keeps giving"
I let Ellie kills Abby in the theatre for a while
Why did you buy the game?
Ellie choking Abby
Palpatine: Do it!
'DO NOT HESITATE, SHOW NO MERCY'
@@762x69 Lucifer (Supernatural): She who hesitates disintegrates.
DEW IT!!!
For a second i just read your name 'julia ann' 😜
Palpatine was right
It’s like the opposite of having your cake and eating it too. Ellie ultimately did NOT take revenge and also paid the price for taking revenge…
Huh? *Everyone* from the Jackson WLF crew are dead. That’s all part of Ellie’s revenge. 💀
@@Bloooo95 Then she should've finished the damn job, that's like The Bride from Kill Bill going through everybody and then deciding to not kill Bill after all the hundreds of people she killed to get to him.
@@Bloooo95no, she left a happy life with dina bc she wanted to finish the job with abby and wasn’t satisfied. she ultimately didn’t end up killing her and lost everything. she was regretful of killing mel even. she didn’t care about her friends, only here
"She paid the price for not taking revenge." Thank you for articulating it so clearly!
“I don’t care, you killed Joel.” - JJ
“ I don’t care, he killed my mom.” - Tony Stank
Definitely get those vibes when watching this.
"sah... Sah... Save... Martha..."
"How do you know that name?"
The Stank detail on point👌
They're in a post apocalyptic world though, no law.
@@abramrexjoaquin7513 the big difference there is he was saving someone instead of getting revenge for losing somebody
maybe the this game could have used that approach with its characters
@@abramrexjoaquin7513 WHY DID YOU SHAY THAT NAME?!
A comment I saw elsewhere made a lot of sense to me:
At the end of it all, she should have taken the guitar, a physical manifestation of Joel's love for Ellie, and learned to use it with her other hand. This would have been a powerful symbol of the pain and frustration of starting over after a painful and terrible loss but the determination to keep fighting and to never give up. Instead she just abandoned it.
yea a lot of left handed people invert the strings and then you play it the same way more or less
The lessons kinds go against the 1st games lesson. Which was not giving up. She just abandoned the guitar. Actually she abandoned her mission to kill Abby
The developers didn’t want to give the impression of starting over. Not being able to play with the guitar symbolized how much she had lost and suffered in her journey. She was abandoned and alone and not happy about it and had lost all hope and determination that’s why she left the guitar.
That's one point of view
I don't think she abandoned it, I think she let it go.
Saro Dantra I don’t think that was an “abandonment” thing. I think it was a leaving Joel to rest thing. Like, finally forgiving him, finally letting him go. Not letting his memory haunt her anymore.
That was actually my take on Joel. I mean at the beginning of TLoU the fireflies were literally terrorists before the collapse. Even worse there's no guarantee they would have been able to actually make the cure after killing Ellie.
I've been saying this. thank you! Just like there's no real guarantee Ellie isn't the sole immune person on the planet.
Fireflies are terrorists. They are not saviours.
Dizinona actually she is the chosen one for the cure so yea they actually would’ve made a cure
Hmm but this could just be the governments/military’s propaganda
Fireflies weren't terrorists. At one point Ellie and Dina discuss how life was in the QZ, and how the government told them that Fireflies were terrorists. You know, the same government that tried to kill Joel and Sarah at the beginning of Part 1 for no reason, as well as clearly maintain an oppressive Warsaw Ghetto-like quarantine zone in Boston?
Yeah get out of here. You're gonna have to find some other bullshit argument to justify Joel's actions.
"We're all an asshole to somebody."
More true words weren't ever spoken.
they were?
@@92brunod I fixed it ass, lol
They really aren’t true. Have you really not met anyone who’s overall cordial, intuitive, and/or friendly?
@@neontime8507 im friendly but people still hated me in highschool for being better at sports than them. im just saying, you dont have to be an asshole for someone to dislike you. there will 100% always will be someone who hates your guts
Ishmam Yousuf youre not a very self-aware fella, are you?
“Independent contractor on the Death Star” nice clerks reference
Jeremy is more cultured than he let's on 😏
if you up your volume during ellie drowning abbie scene, you can hear abby faintly calling "martha"
He's unoriginal
"A roofer listens to his heart, not his wallet"
If only Neil took that guy's advice.
37 contractors
I honestly thought the Game was going to be about Ellie's revenge against the Cult because they destroyed Jackson and killed everyone with Joel barely surviving but manages to recover and then catches up with Ellie sacrificing himself to save her
Edit: I thought of this because of the Trailers
That would be common sense, though....exhales.
That would have been... 1000 times better. Especially since those scars were much more interesting than the WLFs
@@rockycvs3 That sounds extremely boring to be honest.
@@superkind333 boring like the new story...ok.
@Rómulo Figueroa better to be a good predictable story than this garbage...that makes no sense to anyone, except for the easily manipulated.
"We're all an asshole to somebody."
I feel like that's true every day on the internet, no need for a zombie apocalypse.
So true. Except everyone is also narcissistic to even sympathize
Even i admit that. But its sadly how the system is set up to be. Aslong as you read your way out of the problems. And just know what to do. You generally are gonna be living life you want for yourself and others in a sense. Sounds preachy i know, but in the end, never give up in what you like to do in life. Thats what matters
But its also how culture works, like example is American culture since hippie era. Every stereotype one can think of "child killer, inbred racist for the south" then you elect Trump probably because of how mean and vicious the left side was. If people didnt act so mean to each other then i dont think people would act this way. Its a reflection of how people are in a society, aswell as history, past, hate, anger, envy, lack of knowing, lack of understanding. Its a very cruel state of mind. If people find a way to fight through it, you usually end up better i think
from the last of us part 1:
(edit) Sam: "What are you afraid of?"
Ellie: "ending up alone."
Last of us part two: Write that down! That is brilliant! We should do that!
This was an interaction between sam and ellie.
I mean, that was definitely intentional. From a storytelling standpoint that's a perfect example of cruel irony; her greatest fear is ending up alone and that's precisely how she ends up
@@averythesuperhero yeap. It’s called foreshadowing.
Jeremy looks like Bruce Wayne in DKR when he was secluding himself
"Seducing" himself you mean
Made this comment 3 videos ago lop
Well, at least he still has cartilage in his legs, right?
Only a matter o' time now before some pretty little thing sneaks into Jeremy's house to try to steal his pearls
When it comes to human beings, when it comes to the human race, there is a constant. And that constant is whenever we get something that can help us, whenever we get a new technology, our next order of business is to weaponize it. Whether it be the tools that our ancestors used in the caves, gunpowder, nuclear energy or social media, it can help us. And after we learn that, we weaponize it. Always.
- Jeremy Jahns
That shit hit home.
I do think it's too simplistic to actually be meaningfull though. Like it sounds profound, but when you think about it, he's saying that inventions that do good can also be used to exude power over others. Saying 'we' makes it sound like humanity is one big hivemind that does good and evil, while that is not true. The inventor of polio actually didn't profit of it, just to ensure that everyone could be freed of this horrid disease. Good inventions can be solely used for good.
Now why is this important? Let's take his example of the cure in this game: it's bad a cure is made, because it will be used to hold power over others. First, yes, that might happen, but not having a cure will mean a LOT of people die in a horrible way. Second, the parallel he draws with the real world can be easily deconstructed with the example of the medicine we have today. Do pharmaceutical companies drive up the price of medicine to get filthy rich of the backs of sick people? Yes. Would it have been better if we didn't have insulin or the cure for polio? Obviously not.
@@_Lynnteressant_ Polio *vaccine*, he didn't invent the pathogen - and he had to fight every inch of the way to stop his discovery being a cash cow for someone.
We weaponize it. And it's still OK. Because alternative of not having those things is worse. You can topple an empire, you cannot revive humanity if it dies to mushroom disease
he's not wrong and that's why i love it! Its simple, but it works!
@@_Lynnteressant_ well, with the polio thing, when that researcher published his findings, he did so that it could be taken up and replicated by other scientists around the world. in the world of TLOU apparently, only a handful of scientists(or just abbys dad) had the ability to synthase a vaccine for this epidemic(which seems pretty stupid). So, in that sense, it would be very easy for someone to monetize the cure. i think thats what he was referring to
it’s funny to see how many people, when playing as abby going up against ellie, just stood there. it annoyed me how much the game trusted in the fact that we wanted to hurt ellie in any way
no, the game expects you to feel conflicted. so did you feel conflicted?
Kah Weng Chok nobody did. The director and writer of the game was a clown
Kah Weng Chok i felt more annoyed and being forced to do something i completely disagree with rather than conflicted
@@liquidsnakeckw It's not being conflicted if you literally have no choice or you can't progress in the game. Unless you mean conflicted why I should continue playing the game? Now that's a good point. Probably not intended by the developers though.
Yea i let her kill me a few times
"Requiem for a Dream had a happier ending" holy fucking shit
That’s why this game is amazing
You better stick to disney movies then ^^.
The ending reminds me of the scene from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. "So you get nothing, you lose! Good day sir!"
But that scene features a hammy Gene Wilder as Willa Wonka telling you why you suck, so it's actually full of win.
@@jamesmallone this game could use some gene wilder at the end honestly. Lol
Yea here I am bouta go nitpicky on your ass for a sec.
*exhales deeply*
Charlie and the chocolate factory was actually the reboot that starred Johnny Depp who in no part of it said the iconic line. You’re talking about the OG Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory starring Gene Wilder who said it in all his full charming glory.
@@rhetiq9989 Not nitpicking. You're clarifying. If people went off only the information prior to yours, they would have been confused or thought the OP was a liar.
@@rhetiq9989 Fixed. I knew it was one or the other and I over corrected to the wrong one.
The fact you got to Elle's boss fight and just committed suicide says SO MUCH about this game.
Everyone I've seen has done this, it's hilarious. I've never rooted for the 'enemy' of the game to kill my own character so much in any game that I can remember.
@@samuelhawes6735 It's sad cos when I let Ellie kill Abby, I felt like the past 10 hours with Abby were completely valueless story wise
@@lukag5478 implying time spent playing as abby had any value to begin with. The game wouldve been much better if they cut that section out
@@samuelhawes6735 yeah exactly I couldn't believe they were making me do this so I just let Ellie shoot me to death because I physically could not come to terms with fighting Ellie. Nah not making me do it .
Me too!
"My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to have me forgive you and let you go"
Great illustration but someone's gonna try to tear it down to support the game's story. Ugh
That would have been a disaster.
Lmao great movie!
Sure, but everyone hates that movie, right???
Omg dead 💀 😭😂
I just don’t understand why so many people had to die on both sides of the characters and then when they finally meet they let each other go ? TWICE?
a life for a life...their debt is repaid!!!!
They both realized how much damage the cycle of revenge actually does, that’s why they broke the cycle, because if Lev lost Abby, he would probably be put on the path of revenge as well and he’s also the reason why Abby shared Dina, so Ellie would never have it in her to kill him
Harry Paul this comment makes no sense
Harry Paul Ellie only killed in self-defense, Abby killed tons of Scars as a member of the Wolves
Harry Paul idk what you’re on about just cause the character wasn’t named in the first game. Joel unloaded on a room full of doctors who were innocent at that point. Consequences exist in the world and he paid for it. If you thought TLOU was sunshine and rainbows with happy endings you’re playing the wrong game
When Jeremy talks about the perspective of being a parent and the way that influences decision-making... I don't think the writers thought that far when writing the ending
The worst part is that they laid it out for themselves from the beginning game. Only thing more egregious is GOT not sticking the landing because they couldn't think past George's ideas lmao
I can't believe Ellie just abandoned Dina and their one year adorable baby boy to try and kill Abby, who was 1,044 miles away in Santa Barbara. There's no way she leaves them behind to survive on their own in the zombie apocalypse. What a stupid game. Smh.
@@sunnysied713 On top of it... never even doing it.
But Ellie could see that Abby was practically parenting Lev
@@c13lack5 The game doesn't do a good job of explaining HOW or WHY Ellie should forgive Abby. Both of those characters spent very little time with reflection, introspection, remorse, etc. Abby betrays the WLF because she has a nightmare. Ellie aborts her revenge mission because of a one second vision (that contradicts her earlier must-kill-Abby vision). Remember, Ellie and Abby are mirrors. Everything that happens to Ellie also happens to Abby (which is another problem with the story, but different topic). Anyway, Ellie couldn't forgive Seth over a much smaller transgression, but she could easily forgive Abby over murdering Joel, Jesse, beating her pregnant girlfriend and ruining her happy life. The forgiveness wasn't earned. The characters barely had a discussion about their grievances and definitely found no common understanding. The game only shows the story from the perspective of the victim, not the perpetrator. It's kind of hard to forgive without actually listening or thinking about things. The best dialogue in the game happened between Ellie and Nora, but Ellie still beat her to death with a pipe. Naughty Dog was unable to successfully convince the audience that Abby deserved forgiveness and that Ellie should forgive her. The ending seemed like a random, unexplainable act of kindness because we don't see an actual setup. Ellie doesn't learn. Ellie doesn't grow. Key character moments were rushed. They didn't stick the landing, but broke an ankle.
Ellie killed hundreds of people in violent and unsettling ways and she still just kept on killing. The writers setup Abby and Lev to look like Joel and Ellie. Abby is protective and dedicated to Lev just like Joel was to Ellie. Lev is broken and beaten and experiencing (hearing) Abby get murdered by Ellie - just like Ellie was broken and beaten and experienced Joel get murdered by Abby. Ellie only shows mercy to Abby because Abby and Lev _remind her of Joel and herself._ It's a major plot convenience and plot contrivance. If Abby didn't have her relationship with Lev, then Abby would be dead many times over. The only thing that broke the revenge cycle was coincidence. That doesn't make a good revenge-mercy story. Ellie didn't realize that revenge is bad, violence is bad or feel remorse for her actions. Lev was the catalyst. She didn't want to do to Lev what had been done to her... which is BS. Lev helped Abby ambush them in the theater and shot an arrow into Dina. Yara helped Abby defeat Tommy and toss him into the river. Lev (and Yara) were still the enemy. So it's weird that Lev would cause Ellie to feel the 'regret of violence' and grant mercy.
“Somebody in the world hates you because of something they’ve heard about you from someone else.”
Sounds a awful lot like twitter to me.
This is basically what I got from this game: Everything you love doesn't matter, because other people love things too. But they all think you're an asshole.. And if you want to learn guitar, you will lose your father figure... Such a profound experience.
Cody D I think it’s more about how people are far more than what you know about them
MrLuckless that’s exactly why I deleted twitter. Everyone on Twitter can burn
2020.
The last of us part 2: everyone is an asshole to somebody.
This is how they should have written last of us part 2
Prologue- Abby walks into the firefly hospital and finds her dad dead on the floor. then the title appears.
sidenote- Ellie and Dina has actually been dating for 2 years instead of them having there first kiss at the party we saw at the e3 demo
Ellie and Dina are at the party we saw at the E3 demo and it's there 2 year anniversary of them dating. the next morning Ellie and Dina go on the patrol mission. Joel and Tommy saves Abby. Abby leads them into a trap with the rest of WLF. Joel gets beaten with Abby's bare hands. Ellie and Dina shows. Dina gets her throat slit. Tommy gets shot to death. Joel gets shot in the head but doesnt die because the bullet deflects off his skull. The place gets overrun by clickers forcing Abby and WLF to flee. Ellie is able to get Joel out of there. few months later Ellie and Jesse sneaks out of Jackson to go on the revenge mission. Joel and Maria finds out that they left and goes after them. during mission Ellie and Jesse's relationship grows and Ellie eventually falls in love with Jesse and they have a romance scene learning that Ellie is not lesbian but she's bisexual. but on her journey with jesse she has flashbacks of her moments with Dina. on Joel and Maria's journey Joel has flashbacks of him, Tommy, and Ellie. Joel and Maria eventually catches up with Ellie and Jesse. But During a shootout Maria gets shot. Joel tells Jesse to take Maria back to Jackson, While Joel and Ellie continue their quest for revenge. During their journey their relationship starts to develop and Ellie starts to understand why Joel got her out the hospital. Joel and Ellie makes it to the WLF Camp. Joel and Ellie kill the remaining WLF members. Joel and Ellie finally kills Abby and goes home.
more like, everyone bad, Abby good.
Kinda like real life
@Weghweh Hwewehwhe It was so fake that Ellie gave up her so called relationship in the name of vegeance.
That awkward moment when Jeremy word-rambles a better Part 2 leading into a more compelling Part 3 than Naughty Dog and makes Abby way more interesting and relatable as a result.
I feel like they were so eager to rush into this story that they missed very valuable time they could’ve used to tell a Part 2 that led into this story being Part 3.
"we're all an asshole to somebody" is my new catch phrase.
Not that it's any excuse to be an asshole to anybody.
Danny Dolan it’s also definitely not true.
Today I learned Jeremy is 40 years old.
So can we talk about the Fountain of Youth and where you found it?
Unfortunately the answer is finding a job and lifestyle that renders you the least amount of sympathetic nervous system activations per week, and a job/lifestyle that affords you adequate time for recuperating when in rest phase, to repair damaged cells. 'Sympathetic Dominance' - causing prolonged elevated cortisol levels, decreases collagen and muscle mass, eventually leading to shortened telomeres. Or yes, finding a Fountain of Youth or Holy Grail, that would work also.
A 40 years old white dude. Brie Larson would tell him this videogame isn't meant for him.
caliente2512 it’s not though, shit is cringe asf
@@caliente2512 is that a personal attack or something?
@@CHewittMedia I can second that. I'm 25 and look older than him
Imagine playing as Uncle Ben's murderer in a Spiderman game.
Did uncle ben also do some messed up shit and kill people in the past?
That was a really stupid comparison
@@ians_parks Everybody was killing everybody. it's the end of the world! Dog eat dog. Every man for himself. Joel wasn't alone. He was just one of the better ones.
Ian Cowell lol they forgot Joel doomed humanity and killed 20+ people doing so
@@ians_parks
Yeah he doomed mankind and created a brand name for parboiled rice and other related food products
Neil Druckmann on Abby: "Abby is a wonderful character!"
TLOU fans to Abby: "You are an ill-made, spiteful little creature full of envy, hate, and low cunning."
But so is Elly, at the end of the game.
@Felix Kaletsch but like…that’s a direct result of Abbey’s actions. Sure Ellie is obviously her own person who makes her own decisions, and she got to the point she did for a reason. Well many reasons that is. But Abbey murdered Joel, made Ellie watch, then killed Jessie, crippled Tommy, and assaulted Dina. She caused Ellie so much trauma that I’d say it’d be pretty hard to see Ellie having gone in another direction.
@@felixkaletsch8691 Due to Abby
@@jackmcdonald5237 Abby murdered Joel because Joel killed her father. Ellie then went on to murder a bunch of Abby’s friends in cold blood despite them only being guilty by association. So then Abby retaliates by killing Jesse and shooting Tommy (who murdered Abby’s friend)
You can be selective to how you want to frame how things happened to justify your hatred for Abby but you’re being very disingenuous. Your beloved heroes are just as fucked up as Abby and you can pull these mental gymnastics all you want but that won’t change the facts.
Imagine hitman getting killed by the daughter of a guy he strangled in the kitchen
Brooo... BROOO thats it! 🤭 This is it!
Imagine John Wick getting beat up to death by the daughter of a random guy John killed during the 3rd film
I can't really imagine Hitman getting killed. He's like the Mark Zuckerberg of assassins. He's inhuman. John Wick nearly died in chapter 3 so it's possible for him, but Hitman, no.
Imagine Mario getting killed by the son of a goomba he jumped on
What? You mean the death of that random NPC doctor that only appeared _once_
Imagine if John wick killed everyone except the guy who killed his dog...
John wick isnt that good man just please stop
DEVIN RAYTV The game was never truly about revenge, rather forgiveness
This never makes sense yet people keep repeating the joke. It's more if the dog actually killed Theon's dog and Theon killed it out of revenge. Stupid but people keep saying this dumb shit and it's the worst analogy ever. It's more like if Ezio killed a dozen guards to reach Rodrigo Borgia and he just let's him live... oh wait
Jhon Wick's dog didn't doom humankind or killed anyone's parents
The Buttery Hippo Show the director said it’s about the cycle of revenge... so uh...
Jesse got treated like trash in this game he had so much potential
This is true
Yup
He is a man, what did you expect.
Every character from the first game was did dirty in this game lol
Yara's departure hit me harder. I had to pause the game for a couple of minutes to let it sink in. She's on the ground and she's just peppered with bullets for half a second, and then she's gone.
I think the thing everyone, most importantly the characters, is forgetting is that the Fireflies told Joel that they would have to kill her for a chance at a cure, but there was no guarantee. So they may have killed her and then it would be a waste.
No, it was basically a guarantee. The vaccine would've worked.
@@jameslanier2510 no, in the game they say they don't know if they would be able to make a vaccine. They said they would have to kill her to try for a vaccine, but there was no guarantee they could make one.
@@tgs40 Nah Ellies immunity is the last piece they needed. They made it pretty clear.
@@jameslanier2510 they say it directly in the game.
@@tgs40 Where?
I think 90% of the players when playing as Abby at the theater just walk straight into Ellie to get themselves shot intentionally
I purposely let abby die so many times
I did, several times.
yep, I thought It would trigger a cutscene.
The only time I never wanted to win a boss fight. I loved it when Ellie shot abby in the face.
It would be interesting to see the real data on that because I bet ND has it.
I would rather play Jeremy’s version of Last of Us 2.
ABSOLUTELY and he thought of it on the fly.
I wouldn’t.
that would actually be a really interesting ending, seeing it from abbys perspective and then finish it with a monologue from abby playing over Ellie living her life at the farm
I would rather play a game that makes me feel that much disconfort that a pointless side story that makes no sense or a story full of fanservice because it doesn't think i can handle the grim reality of such a world.
Same here, it would've made seeing Abby's perspective much easier or "better". Then, they could've made this one that would solidify and end all three of their stories.
*My name is Inigo Montoya you killed my father prepare to die.*
Some time later...
Inigo: You know what, nevermind.
Maybe Neil just want to do a reverse of that. Instead of the 6-finger guy, it was -2 fingers Ellie instead. And instead of Inigo getting vindicated, he just lets the guy walk away.
"You know, it's very strange... I've been In the revenge business for so long, now that it's over I don't know what to do with the rest of my life".
While we see Inigo take his revenge. He doesn't glorify it once it's over. In fact he laments it. I suppose this is what we would have wanted for Ellie, to realize that revenge wasn't worth it after the fact, because that has a bigger impact when she realizes that revenge didn't make her feel better or bring Joel back.
@@chucheeness7817 why yall acting like Abby walked away all roses and sunshine? Last I checked, she had lost every person she cared about except lev, was considered a traitor by her people, had been a slave for 3 months, and looked like a sunburnt skeleton. I'd say Ellie would have done her a favor if she killed her. She got her revenge in spades.
@@supergatorhator Losing your only father figure, life partner and her child, losing a good friend>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a bunch of friends who she didn't even show caring about
@@benjaminjane93 So what's the point of a full length revenge story with no resolution? This would've worked so much better as a short story in a seperate IP. 20 hours of "revenge is pointless" is... well, *pointless.* This story could've been told in 20 minutes, instead of 20 hours.
I feel like the whole game is Ellie trying to find the meaning/purpose she thought her life was supposed to have that Joel robbed her of. Just after she’s taken the first step of forgiving Joel and finally accepting what he did, he gets killed. She never got to fully forgive him. I think when she saw Joel get killed, all her trauma and internal dissonance attached itself to the most animalistic, instinctive purpose it could, which is revenge. Getting revenge was the only way to fill this existential hole, and she was obsessed and addicted to this prospect of revenge. Of course, it wasn’t until she basically got what she’d been obsessing over that she realized it wouldn’t fill that hole, because the only lasting/true meaning in life is love. Her sparing of Abby and Dev was, on some level, an act of love, because it was an act of forgiveness (even if Ellie wouldn’t admit that). That’s why the last Joel cutscene is so powerful to me, because only then is it revealed that Ellie, despite her darkness and pain, is a loving person at her core and has the ability (or at least desire) to forgive an unforgivable act. That’s why the Ellie/Joel flashbacks are structured the way they are, as I see it
This is exactly what I saw in the game too. I wish more people agreed. It seems like that’s what they were going for
I couldn't agree more. In those final flashbacks it became clear to me that one of her main driving factors was her guilt. The guilt of shutting Joel out for so long. When she snapped at him for standing up for her, the pain in his eyes tore my heart in two.
@@wright96d Guilt! Yes exactly
what purpose? the entire first game we see ellie talking about being scare of being alone (that scene with sam, joel scene when ellie escape and the final scene of her killing david).
i understand after the jiraffe scene she still wanted to go to the fireflies, but she didnt know that she was going to fucking die. do joel even explain to her about that? that they were planning to kill her for their cause? no.
what was the goal of ellie?it make no sense. if she was so afraid of being alone ,why the hell she would be cool with being a tool for strangers? aside of marlene she doesnt know any of the fireflies. is a dumb excuse to make her be mad at joel. it make no sense.
@@FZJanimated It makes perfect sense if you played the game. From the last frames of the first game it's clear she just wanted to stop the cycle of pain from the virus. That she wanted her journey to the fireflies to mean something more. It makes perfect sense that she would resent Joel for taking that away from her, whether he was saving her life or not.
Yo. Jeremy just dropped some knowledge about humanity with the whole cure speech. I applaud.
yo seriously i never thought about it like that. May be the "cure" would create more problems then it would solve...
It doesn't always happen how he says, some of us defy that and truly do what must be done to save the world
@@splashnskillz37 It makes you think though, with the war between scars and wlf, the cannibals, the psychos... most of the monsters in the game aren't even infected.
That is especially relevant now with all these countries trying to make a vaccine for coronavirus.
Out of all the organized groups of people we’ve seen though, they were the least likely to fall into that trapping. Even if they did employ the tactic against some others, it still would’ve been better than the alternative. It’s a moot point and one reflective of individual interpretation existing outside of narrative presentation and creator intention. He’s grasping for straws basically, a better argument would be to talk about not having any consultation with Ellie first.
This is "Kill Bill" without killing Bill.
Edit: and without any of the funny Tarantino's shanenigans
That film had strong female characters too
You guys think you are so slick. This is basically a rehash of the "This is like a John Wick movie with John Wick not killing the guy who killed his dog". Like we haven't heard that comment a million times already.
Some of you guys really didn't understand the plot either.
And without the good direction.
Ellie shouldn’t have killed Abby. That’s not where the story was leading.
And without ANY humor.
"Shock and depressing does not equal profound"
Movie and game studios, take notes.
Well, say the guy who gave high praise for The Joker
@@RRRRRRRRR33 learn what nuance is
Doesn't mean TLOU isn't profound.
@@Lorentz_Driver because it is not profound
Not profound or bold but uncommon yes. A majority of these types of types have happy endings where things work out.
The biggest thing that bugged me was how quickly Abby turned on everyone she lived with for who knows how long, long enough to get buff
No, not who knows how long. 3 years. And it bothered you that Abby didn't let them execute a 13 year old boy?
@@jameslanier2510 I would like to say that Abby should've atleast felt a bit of hesitation before killing her allies. It's almost as if killing her own comrades is just a normal day at work for her. She is a psychopath
@@jasonalv7436 That hesitation would've killed her. She also panics for a second after killing the first one. Play the game. She's not a psychopath.
@@jameslanier2510 I know damn well she isn't a psychopath but the gameplay and the cutscenes really don't cooperate very well. During gameplay, Abby kills her allies the same way she would kill a fuckin scar. I expect a bit more change to the gameplay since they were her allies but no. It's like if in GoW when Atreus is being a brat, he listens to your orders all the time, that would be a disconnect between cutscenes and gameplay. But they didn't do that and they choose to cooperate the gameplay and cutscenes very well.
@@jasonalv7436 "She is a psychopath"
"I know damn well she isn't a psychopath"
Lol
What gameplay changes were you expecting exactly? Be specific.
I would like to see Scars perspective on why he and mufasa don’t get along ... heck, we don’t even know his real name .. they called him scar cause of the one he had on his eye.... who gave it to him?
I think I saw his musical when he was young and bitten by a snake somewhere.
Brothers tend to be competitive... was it over Simba’s mama?
Look up how actual lions work in the wild. Scar's resentment likely stemmed from his big brother not allowing him to breed. He would not only never he king, but he would also never get laid. Mufasa might have also murdered any females that refused to mate as well as any cubs born to rival lions. Yeah, Scar is suddenly a victim of his own nature!
silverblade357 in the wild ... scar would have been kicked out of the pride .. only one male per pride
For a second I thought you were talking about the Scars group in The Last Of Us 2.
“Requiem For a Dream had a happier ending”. Yikes
That movie is also a million times better than this garbage.
@Draw 4 Card what do you mean somehow? He can act amazingly
ass to ass is better than playing this
@@Mikx100 Oof 😂😂😂
Facts
9:43 Also, Joel loves Ellie like she’s his daughter, so obviously he was going to save her. I think that it’s easy for us to judge Joel on his decision and say he doomed humanity because it’s not our own child that we are sacrificing but someone else’s. Notice in the tlou2, when the doctor was ready to kill Ellie for the vaccine, Marlene asked him if it was his daughter, would he do it ? and he couldn’t answer. Joel wanted for Ellie what anybody would want for their own kid, to live and find happiness and love and make friends and experience life to the fullest with its ups and downs like everyone else.
The doctor wasn't even a good guy. He never explained the procedure to joel or ellie nor did he get proper consent from ellie letting her know she would die from the procedure. Also he wants to withhold the info from joel but then the girl says they have to tell him. When he finds out he WITHDRAWS consent for the procedure. The doctor then says "I won't let you take her" so joel had no choice. Also, never heard of a vaccine that would cure a FUNGAL INFECTION! So not sure why they would want to kill the only possible cure they could experiment with.
Hmm wasnt abby bute by zombie. So if she doesn't die by third game, abby can be cure. So kill her would be best way
Just to add joel murdered abbys father and ellie murdered her whole family, then learning why they did it but still wanting to after abby to get revenge. In all honesty abby should of killed ellie but then ellie wouldnt have been able to save her.
@@JosephHandibode abby was never bit, ellie was, this is how we know half of yall complaining weren't paying attention to the second game
@@ericdasilva4514 that always bothered me, like why not let her live her life? When the time is right if shes willing to lay down her life for a cure then so be it.
I remember at one point owen said “you only need 3 fingers” kinda funny in the end
Yeah haha I remembered someone saying that but I didn’t know who
It was Manny not Owen
Yep, it was Manny, and yes, I also thought about that when it happened
@@LuisHernandez-pm4yv And Manny was a self insert of Neil Druckmann........
Ellie: “Everyone I’ve ever cared about either left me or died.”
Joel: **Risks his own life not to leave her**
Ellie: 😠
I understand this is sarcasm but just in case, shes fkn 14 dud.
@@Fisherminer Joel loved Ellie like a _daughter._ Lol
@@Fisherminer If you understand, why is there a "just in case" moron
@@sunnysied713I know right lol. It's like people don't realize there are other types of loves besides romantic ones.
People are dumb.
Joel died and left her
Basically, the writers thought they were better writers than they really are.
I guess having millions of people say you made the greatest video game story ever written in TLoU1. You get a little full of yourself.
@@ericohm9474 But Neil wasn't alone when writing TLOU1. bruce straley Mastermind behind TLOU1.
aaaaaaaaaaaadddd but bruce Straley wasn’t a writer he was the gameplay director he didn’t have a hand in the actual writing of the game
@@ericohm9474 The writer from TLOU1 was fired...
@@JNeedleVids And even without that adventure the writing was still shit.
The main problem I have with people saying “It’s good that she spared Abbie” is that you need to keep in mind all Ellie did up to that point was kill literally everyone who stood in the way between her and Abbie. Are their lives worth less?
Someone didn't follow the story
I’m not saying that you’re wrong at all, but it’s important to keep in mind that Ellie has been conditioned to see those people as collateral damage. She only spared Abbie because she was humanized for her and she remembered how to be kind. Again, it’s fucked up that she killed so many people, but it makes sense with how she sees the world
It’s honestly hilarious, that they tried to tell an already extremely overdone revenge story that’s been told good and bad many times over, with all that reference, they still fucked up the message.
Hilo Takenaka
And killing pregnant woman in the midst of it feel kinda twisted unnecessary dark.
Yep. It is such a shitty storytelling to have ellie kill without remorse hundreds npc who begged for mercy and show any kind of remorse in the cutscenes. In the gameplay ellie is a psychopath. In the cutscenes when we don't have random npcs ellie shows some kind of remorse because ... of reasons.
The scary thing is that Jeremy’s idea for a second game is infinitely better.
Yes his rework of the current story were joel dies in part 3 is much better.(i still like the game the story is a complex beautiful, depressing mess) The mercenary word garbage sounds like something that should be in part 3 with new characters set in Europe or Asia
Ethan Roberts story? Objectively.. better game? Fuuuck no lol
Angry Joe had a better idea too. If they insist on Abby killing Joel Why not introduce Abby earlier, make it less random & less of a coincidence. Add friendship to Ellie in Jackson or otherwise outside of the community. & then later have her kill Joel unexpectedly once she learns who they really are. That would have been much more impactful & emotional if we already liked Abby to begin with & spent time with her previously as a buddy side character doing stuff with Ellie in earlier gameplay. The way they did it comes off as a cheap shock factor coincidence with no build up or earned anticipation for me.
Angry Joe had the same idea. If they want us to love and care about Abby, don't make them kill off the character that everyone loves in the beginning. They should've built up to that. Ellie being pissed at Joel. Ellie meets Abby, they bond, we see their struggles, we see their conflicts, especially when Abby finds out about Ellie knowing Joel and Ellie finding out Joel killed her father and friends would've been a better story.
Right cause no one would get mad if there was a cliffhanger at the end of the game
I can’t believe Jeremy thought of a much better story for TLOU 2 than professional writers from a major video game company.
It’s easy when you remember entertainment before agenda when it comes to storytelling
I can...
That story he pitched I would’ve wanted to play.
Sir Prize what fucking agenda? If you make this about Ellie being gay or Abby being muscular then that’s a personal prejudice w yourself cuz the game doesn’t have an agenda. Just a message about violence that has nothing to do with orientation or representation.
@@TheEmc2000 no a story becomes an agenda when some sjw writer decides white straight men are privileged and have to be killed off(The Last Jedi, Dark Fate, Charlie's Angels) no matter if they were good characters you tear them down and sacrifice them to push a woke narrative, got it?
I am getting to a weird conclusion: If giving up revenge in the end still cost me everything, I might as well get my revenge. So...I don't know what message ND is trying to push anymore.
The message is: "There will be a 3rd game. So give us your money fuckers."
That just going on the path of revenge may harm you even if you don't finish it. What happens if you finish it, will depend on how you react to it, it may cause even more harm .
@Lori Voss
Choices in the game have never really been Naughty Dog's style.
I can appreciate both having them and not. Different tools for different styles of storytelling.
You can't make sure your players go through the specific emotional journey you wanted for them if they can opt out of it.
Great writers EXCEED expectation of their audience while shit writers subverts it!
@@lunchhawx7596 😂😂😂
"There was a sequel. It wasn't as good" - Joel
Best comment
Yeah your right it was better.
Ellie kills people who have nothing to do with Joels murder whatsoever, doesn't think twice.
Finally gets to Abby and struggles to kill her....
Because the kid who convinced Abby to spare Dina and Ellie, is in the boat near them. Killing Abby and dooming him to die would just solidify her monstrous identity. She's gotta stop killing at some point or lose herself completely, so she spared Abby to save Lev. A much more innocent life.
@@helenline1790 what more 2 dead bodies will do after half of seatle she murdered
@@faizaiman4292 well for one there's big NO TRESSPASSING signs on the entrances to WLF territory. And both the WLF and the seraphites have the "kill all trespassers" as their intentions. So she didn't murder half of Seattle lol. At that point it's called self defence.
If there's one life that doesn't deserve to die at the expense of Ellie's feud with Abby, it's Lev. She sees herself in Lev, Saving Lev means she saves whatever bit of her soul she has left from, yes, killing hundreds, killing a pregnant woman, torturing someone etc. Killing some more on that beach would just solidify the murderous identity that we're both agreeing she has.
She has to stop at some point, killing Abby and dooming Lev to die, would mean she would've learned nothing from the death she had both caused and witnessed. The ending of the game would be exactly the same, it can either end with her doing a good deed or just killing some more.
So I've essentially just repeated myself because for some reason you can't grasp that she can either kill some more and carry on being a vengeful merciless killer. Or spare a life and save one, and save whatever humanity she has left. It's not very complicated lol.
Darth Vader murders thousands but no-one bats an eye when he redeems himself by killing old man Hitler to save his son.
@@helenline1790 So by the logic of Joel killing an NPC doctor who's Abby's father, who knows how many tons of people are seeking revenge against Abby and Ellie after all the people they killed.
@@helenline1790 Lev is innocent?! He literally got Tommy and Dina almost killed.
I’m not sure how Druckmann thought playing as Abby after killing the main protagonist of the first game was a good idea.
+Ben Day Dot
Agreed.
It worked for me so i thought it was a great idea
Great question. It wasn't.
@@Leo501st Why?
Hei5enBerg_501st
Didn’t click with me at all bro. Though I’ll admit, lev was the one whom i felt bad for. He’s the one truly suffering from all of this.
Ellie: joel please get up
Joel: Ight lemme just pick my BRAIN matter off the floor
Too bad they never got around to making that vaccine for golf clubs.
Ok That was hilarious😅😅😅😅
His mind was all over the place over what Abby just did to him
🤣💀
Don't wanna be that guy, but I'mma say it anyway: Ellie said "get up" before Abby killed Joel, causing his brain matter to land on the floor.
I hate the argument that people make when they say "Joel has gone soft"
YOU DON'T LOSE 20 YEARS OF SURVIVAL INSTINCTS. It's not how that works.
This. Soldiers are often at war for less than half that and struggle to fit into society because their instincts have been so thoroughly rewritten.
After a quarter of that time is safety, yes u can. Not completely soft, but indeed softer... Certainly.
It's him living in a normal community for four years and not being a mercenary killing innocent people constantly. Its not far-fetched that he let his guard down
I know some old Vietnam vets, you can tell that war changed their lives. Just the way they act
@@gatewayrealtor664 he became a idiot tho
I agree Ellie staying on the farm wouldve been a good ending because she let go of revenge and got rewarded with a nice life. But that moment when tommy comes back and you learn he lost maria presumably because of his obsession wity abby is a really cool moment where the player doesnt want ellie to follow in tommys footsteps. I wouldnt have had a problem with the games ending if it were more clear she got back with dina. This would follow the theme of the universe rewards you if you let go of your hate, we still took your guitar playing for trying again to kill abby but at least you still have a family.
So like ellie’s relationship with dina is fractured but they’re still a family unit for the sake of the child ?
At the end when Ellie let Abby go, my inner voice: "You had one job...."
But she saved Abby and the Asian kid instead of killing Abby and stopped the cycle of revenge and lost everything in saving them. Went right over the fanbases head
@@vrtrooper3801 Yeah. She stopped the cycle of revenge to the very person who least deserves it. Abby in the end has more to live for than Ellie now.
@@memecliparchives2254 everyone is missing many salient points.
1. Abby didn't kill Ellie when she had the chance.
2. Abby protecting the kid parallels the Joel/Ellie relationship in part 1. By killing Abby she would be killing the kids protector.
3. It stops the cycle of revenge. It also ties in nicely with that Flashback of Joel, and the ramifications of choices we make.
4. Ellie saves two lives instead of taking one.
5. It won't bring Ellie comfort, it won't bring Joel back.
6. Ellie loses everything in seeking revenge anyway regardless of whether Abby lives or dies.
This all goes over the heads of the majority of the fanbase. Ellie choosing NOT to kill is far more powerful. Much harder to do. And IS closure.
I genuinely think Ellie getting revenge is FAR more cliched. And resolves nothing. Gives no insight. No development. And just perpetuates the cycle. I think it's a worse ending, and the general player just...doesn't get that.
And Ellie did get closure. She stopped the cycle. And she can begin anew. That glimmer of hope as she leaves the house
@@vrtrooper3801 but what's the circle of revenge? Joel had every right to save ellie and slaughter everyone. It's like Jeremy said in the 1st game it wasn't girl dies and world lives, it's girl dies the world might live. Everyone is a dick yeah but personal story wise it was stupid.
Trundu revenge and hatred would be the common quo in the zombie apocalypse, kindness is a moot act. It’s everyone for themselves and maybe a few people you care about. It’s a pseudo-deep message for the wrong game/setting. Ellie should’ve popped a cap in her ass.
Ellie: *LOSES SOME FINGERS*
Lesbian girlfriend: *DOES NOT APPROVE*
Underrated comment.
Made me lol
Ellie still have her middle finger on her left hand. That's what they use to... you know. 😄
@@dennisacac how do you know she didn't use her entire fist? now its missing those 2 fingers....much smaller fist.
Well it’s just like manny said to Abby you only need three fingers 😉
I'm the only one who remember that Ellie said that her biggest fear was ending up alone? It's stuff that she ended up alone for real
Damn, I didn't even think of that. Brutal.
mhm, even though she ended the cycle of vengeance, her worst fear came through
what do you mean ? Why did Dina and JJ left her ?
Onkar Bonkar I like to think she goes looking for Dina, idk on the spoilercast Druckmann said its up to interpretation. But the game ends with something to do with Joel/Ellie
@@maxim196 Because they can't have a world where conflict and hatred are there when raising a child.
John Wick: kills the guy who killed his dog and all of his henchmen in between.
Beatrix Kiddo: kills the guy who killed her fiancè along with presumably her daughter and all of his henchmen in between, despite knowing her daughter's still alive.
Similarities: both are hell bent on revenge and gets the job done. The guilt is there and shaped them to be a new character.
Ellie: spared the girl who killed her father figure and killed all of her henchmen in between. Despite killing almost everyone involves on her father figure's killing, she didn't finished her job leaving her in an incomplete cycle and her character would stay on that state of anger and killing again would be a walk in the park for her. This is seen because not finishing what she supposed to do, would only makes her PTSD even worse and makes her even more broken in the end.
What a way to end a cherished character. A waste.
It's the "revenge" stereotype in a nutshell. There's no complexity here, this concept was used to the point of exhaustion.
You know that's just what the game wants to do. She left her alive because she could see that both of them...herself and Abby have nothing left in the path of revenge. It's not waste of the character...you just have ....I guess different taste of revenge storytelling. What last of us did was amazing and nuanced storytelling. She saw Abby as a 'joel' figure for Lev and let her go....to break the cycle of revenge and be better after realising this path of vengeance started by Abby and continued by her resulted in them losing everything. She spared that fate for Lev. A kind of person Joel would want her to become. It's not bad storytelling. It's just ain't ur taste.
@@shivampachauri7551 "She saw Abby as a 'joel' figure for Lev" and then she threatens to kill unconscious Lev with a knife to goat Abby into a fight. When Ellie's revenge mode is on, I don't think she cares or even realizes that killing Abby wouldn't bring her peace. I think it's great that Ellie spared Abby but her decision was so contrived and arbitrary that I just can't buy that ending. It reminds me of GoT season 8 when Daenerys suddenly turns into the mad queen even tho there was nothing beforehand that foreshadows that sudden character turn. Very much like Ellie going from a revenge hungry killing machine instantly to a reasonable human being who knows that revenge wouldn't bring back the father she had lost and wouldn't bring her peace. See the similarities? Humans don't just change their motivations and goals entirely because of a random flashback that happens out of nowhere. Failure in execution
@@jasonalv7436 I don’t think she spared abby because she turned into a “ reasonable person “ it’s quite the opposite , she is just a broken young person who is going through the stages of grief which makes any person do unreasonable and conflicted things , she went for abby because she is sick and she spared her because she is sick not because she realized that it’s wrong , she simply didn’t know what to do or how to feel especially when she knows deep inside that she didn’t forgive joel for what he did but still feels regret for not spending time with him , in this way you can never predict what she’s going to do , if she killed abby it will work and if she didn’t it will also work
@@yousifxg4mer318 so she is broken which resulted in her wanting to kill Abby. But because she is also broken she decided to spare Abby. Then what's stopping her from suffering from PTSD again and going after Abby again? From what the game showed us, she clearly stopped because of a flashback of Joel. A flashback that came out of nowhere. The reason Ellie went for revenge is because her last words to Joel was her insulting and berating him, which resulted in her feeling like she owes him. But the flashback she had was the last conversation she had with him and it shows signs of reconciliation. Because of this flashback, Ellie's motivation for revenge is not because she owes Joel and she felt guilty for berating him this whole time but because Abby took her chance of forgiving him and it pissed her off. Joel even said that he would do it all over again so Ellie knows the last thing he would want her to do is put herself in danger, so she did that very thing??
I feel like Jahns' analysis at the end was more profound than the game itself.
Abby: brutally tortures/kills Joel not even 20 minutes after he saves her from being eaten alive
Also Abby: "yara and lev saved my life, I owe them"
Yep such a radical change and they expect us to sympathize with Abby because she did a sudden 180.
The writing is shit. No one listens to me.
yara and lev didnt kill her father, hard to grasp such a small difference I know
Abdool777 it's easy to miss the point of said person should be conflicted after being saved by the one she's hunting
- see its easy to look like a tool
@@Abdool777 Abby had 4 years to come to terms with her Fathers death it is not like it happened a few days ago.
Don't worry, they're saving Abby so that Jesse's baby will grow up and get revenge for his daddy in TLoU3.
That would be fucking lame. Now every game is just a generic revenge story...
Greeeeaaaaat.
Daniel Cielak (Student) That would be lame tho
Except this time Abby has a family, so you will feel BAD about killing her, because killing people with a family is BAD.
@@SefniAsheforr that's why nowadays i prefer light hearted games like Rayman Legends
@@KimiraDreams they really put so much effort to try and make us feel bad for killing that one doctor from the first game, the one guy that a lot of people tried not to kill in their play through.
That's beautiful. Couldn't have said any of that better myself. We definitely share some of the same thoughts on this game, and we totally did the same thing when faced with the "Ellie" boss fight!
So Ellie loses....
- Joel.
- her girlfriend and child.
- her comfortable life.
- her chance to kill Abby and make things right.
- two fingers which in the process made her lose her guitar playing.
What was even the point of that ending?? And then we just see her set off into the unknown and it ends with a cutscene of Ellie basically saying she almost hates Joel? *Just WOW*
When I look at it like that. Ur absolutely right. Ellie’s ending was worse than Joel’s because Ellie’s number one fear is being alone. How could they do that man?!
Why the hell did her girlfriend leave anyway? Seriously, couldn't chill there a bit while she did her thing?
That's the theme of the game. Going down a path of revenge can cause you to lose yourself and everything around you. I thought it was very well done.
Killing Abby wouldn’t have made things right. It would have changed nothing. Not sure why this is hard to grasp.
L is for 7Yrs wait all down the drain. Disappointing
Ellie could not live with her failure, and where did that lead her? Back to Abby, where she failed again.
Abby thought that by murdering Joel in cold blood and by telling Ellie she never wants to see her again, the message would be clear and she would thrive elsewhere.
She didn't fail. She broke the cycle. Her issue was that she could never forgive. She couldn't forgive Joel, and she couldn't forgive Abby. This destroyed her relationships; both with Joel and Dina.
Letting Abby live is the first time she actually succeeded. We don't get to see it (yet) but it's strongly implied that she'll thrive by the imagery of the ending.
@@Leomerya12 Right... the cycle is broken. Tell that to everyone Abby and Ellie killed so far. I despise these kind of pretentious stories that think they are talking about a deep philosophy issue of human nature. Only to ignore the fact the world is not the same has our own so common sense or rules don't necessarily apply here.
Not to mention you forgot an important fact about any revenge story. You must dig two graves, one for your target and another for yourself. Only then can the so called cycle be broken. To break it without using any violence is impossible if you killed anyone during it.
By sparing Abby and Ellie, who alongside Joel killed many people, the story ensures that now, more people are going to get dragged into it, has they pursue these two for killing their father or mother or brother or just anyone really.
So don't try to say that they will live a better live now, because by the logic of this story, the cycle is only just restarting now.
@@Leomerya12 The fact that she couldn't forgive joel is not only preposterous because it is inconsistent with ellie's character from the first game, where she understands joels pain and his love for her, but also as jahn said in the video, because she actually became a mother !!
And the fact is, you can't forgive someone by forgiving someone else. thats not how it works. especially since the ways abby and joel wronged her are completely different. what would be her reasoning for forgiving joel after saving abby? i just forgave this bitch who killed you, so yeah joel i forgive you?
@@Leomerya12 that random person Ellies shot 1ce there while playing well their cousin is on a revenge mission now. That random dude abby murderd well his wifes niece is on a revenge mission now.......
Stopthe bs no cycle was broken its just convenient plot. As Jeremy was saying it makes no sence. In the story or for the players. There is no reason fo me to feel attached to Abby literally none.
"Requiem for a Dream had a happier ending than this"
Thats a big oof.
JOKER had a happier ending than this.
Last American Virgin had A happier ending than this.
The Lighthouse...
Metamorphosis had a happier ending than th- wait no
Ohw yes, that was a movie, man!
“Fine with humans but not the dogs” yes because the dogs don’t know why they are being hurt/doing. The humans do.
thats stupid.
@@lidjtafari6911 It's far more sensible to kill humans than dogs. Oops.
I like how people seem to think if dogs had our level of awareness,they wouldn't behave as we do.
@@tonyward5280 But they don't. They are just following commands
@@thelonewolf2929 Well in the case of this game,it's unfortunate that the dog was commanded to attack the wrong mofo. People that automatically place animals above humans are just as shite as the people they claim to dislike so much.
Daily reminder that Niel Druckman has said, "we don't use the word 'fun' here"
He thoughts people love dark souls because it's serious not because it's a serious 'FUN'. XD
The gameplay was FUN , the story was FUN , the music was FUN to listen to , and it had Ma'ams ( which was FUN to watch ). Yeah. It was a FUN game Neil. Oh wait ... Oops 🙊
Same philosophy was applied to Part 1, and people love that game.
Using this quote repeatedly to bash him makes you look stupid.
@@arafatshafin2326 dark souls has actual gameplay. It's not a movie. Cuckmann is a narcissist.
bill nye the russian spy
I don’t think games HAVE to be inherently “fun,” but when you go out of your way to make a game this joyless, don’t be shocked when people don’t like it.
*LOU1 Joel:* Barely trusts anyone, is resourceful, cunning, determined, always has some sort of exit strategy
*LOU2 Joel:* Puts his trust in a mansion full of strangers and dies by golfclub
I am shocked how few - basically no - people seem to mention how this is a total rip-off of the Negan/Glenn thing.. Which was handled way better (in the comics).
Outbreak of Covid-19: panic buying, people actually avoiding each other, shaming others for not social distancing
Restrictions being eased: thousands descending on beaches, masks being abandoned, people seem to forget Covid-19 is still out there
The point of this is that when people become more comfortable, they become less cautious. Joel got comfortable in Jackson and let his guard down for a moment and it cost him dearly.
@@BlazingOwnager Especially Negan having a legit reason to be pissed about it, especially in the TV show. Because in there, hes supposed to kill one of them who was Abraham and make the rest be his slaves. But Daryl just had to play hero because he thinks he's so high and mighty of himself just as everyone in Rick's group does and everything Negan's threat that hell shut that shit down no exceptions, he didn't lie.
@@Sam-mi9wi Joel isn't a normal citizen though, Joel was a hardened survivor who had been doing this shit for over 20 years, 4 years of normalcy would not change that, and it wasn't even too normal, as it was still post apocalyptic and they were constantly out searching for bandits and infected.
@@Sam-mi9wi Jackson is heavily patrolled and there's a reason why he and Tommy are the main ones on patrol. If he's gone soft, he shouldnt be out on patrol.
Tommy: You'll should come back with us.. restock
Mel: Appreciate that. I'm Mel by the way
Tommy: I'm Sam and this is my brother
Joel: Nate...
Roll Credits
Except Tommy named Joel many times during their escape. When they were swarmed with infected so they really didn't have time to come up with cover names. She knew who he was before they walked into that room
Tommy already tells Abby their names when they meet, lying to the group after that would've only raised more suspicion. You'd know that if you payed any attention.
shade2919 paid
@@bew1977 Why did Tommy give their names in the first place?, it was unnecessary and convenient for Abby (luck was on her side for almost all the game), she depended on Tommy being an idiot who did not distrust a total stranger.
It's literally all done for the sake of the plot they wrote these characters into a corner on purpose and I hate it
The only good thing that came out of this was FAT GERALT from the rattlers.
Fat Geralt voice actor is the real life husband of Abby voice actress.
Let that sink in
When a random buff dude who punched transgender kid coming out of nowhere is way likable than Abby
I love how they say that Abby's father was the only doctor that could make a vaccine when that is a major plot hole, considering how Marlene before dying in the first game asks Joel for mercy as they can still make a vaccine with Ellie. Seems like they forgot everything about the last game.
javier guerrero or she was just bullshiting him to save her own life
@@dero45 Maybe but why bring up Ellie into it, maybe if she was just talking about herself than yeah but even if she got away with it, they would still try to get Ellie
@@dero45 Why did she chase Joel down then at all?
I mean Marlene was really riding on this so much. In her journals she says how a lot of her people are losing hope and are just abandoning everything but when Ellie was found hope was restored as all those fireflies saw that a cure was possible. Marlene was desperately trying to hold onto what light there was in that dark world.
Marlene cut them off in the garage, Jerry's death was only minutes beforehand, it's very likely she had no idea Joel had just killed the only surgeon capable of making a vaccine. I recommend you watch the scene again.
Also Marlene asking for mercy happens after she pleads with Joel to let Ellie go.
Bro these double unskippable 15 second ads really be killing me these days
ADS, more like, AIDS
Yeah it forced me to use ad blocker
@Leon Coombes Emer Prevost passed away over a year ago and HIS old videos have those kind of ads, so it's definitely the former in at least one case.
Abby kills her own to save some random kid she met a few hours ago: HERO
Joel kills random ppl who tried to kill ellie for a cure that probably wouldn't work out: DEATH
Charan Don’t forget that Joel survives and is considered a hero by the end of TLOU1 as well. We don’t what will happen to Abby.
@@aurum5336 i mean we spent half the game playing as her, i doubt they were tryna make her out to be the villain
@@charan3119 I'd say both Ellie and Abby were, at points, villians throughout this story. Abby's story kind of mirrors Joel's - someone who had done some truly fucked things, but managed to find some level of redemption in taking care of a child who acted as their moral compass.
Ellie lets herself become so consumed by her hate that she loses everything, and it's only when she's standing at the precipice of killing Abby, and by extension killing Lev, that she lets go of the hate and tries to move on.
@@supergatorhator Yeah, I get that on paper, they're essentially the same character, but the execution this time round wasn't done as well. Abby has the personality of dry paint and so does Lev. The selling point of the first game was Joel teaching Ellie to survive, and Ellie helping Joel learn how to love again. Add on top of that some phenomenal acting and chemistry. I just don't think you can really say the same for Abby and Lev. I also don't think the revenge plot really fits the characters and this universe, but I guess that could just be personal taste.
Yeah the WLF fall into disarray after issac dies and the scars island gets burnt to the ground but you know it’s cool levs fine
Imagine Jeremy's last words about Joel saving Ellie's life, and that idea was the story of Part 3, damn that would also be a good story line too.
It's really funny how when you play as Abby in that Ellie boss fight, Ellie would just kill Abby without hesitation or thought, but in that stupid ending she's like noooo it's not worth it.
Stupid writing
Or maybe bcuz at time abby was actually willing to fight her than plus she just watch jessis die and saw Tommy shot
I mean abby literally showed this women mercy twice.. It got all her friends dead and tortured.. U really saying ellie wud of still been in right??
@@shelbywilliams5912 and Abby showing mercy was stupid. If you're going to kill someone important to someones else do you think they won't come back for revenge?
@@aaroncohen2700 so your saying she wud been right... So are u also saying Ellie killing lev wub also right... Someone who save not only your but the woman u love also her baby which u urself wud come to love.. Total stranger tht never done u wrong but actually went out of her way to save you and other precious to u.. But guess so bcuz ellis was mc of first game mean she could no wrong
In the Ellie boss fight, Ellie had just seen Abby kill Jesse, shoot Tommy and threaten to kill Dina. Of course she wanted to kill Abby at that time. In their last fight, they had just both barely survived the Rattlers, and she saw how messed up Abby was. But she still tried her best to kill her, until the memory of her last conversation with Joel came back to her. In that conversation, she told Joel she could never forgive him for the awful thing he did, but she wanted to try. And she realized showing mercy to this other person that Joel wronged (he wronged them both) was a much better way to honor Joel. Good writing.
@@shelbywilliams5912 i think is not about she right but about real human reaction if you hand is full of blood for revange thare no way you can stop like God of war did kratos stop even when he know he wrong and literely destroy world for revange, no and it make sanse he not right, he evil but still make sanse than forgive zeus. Or like read dead redemption 2 when they get revenge he know if they going maybe he will lose everything that he build even his live but keep going any way
It make sanse to forgive if ellie just go straight to Abby and no one alse than forgive her but no with you hand already full of blood.
They Miss the point of story about revenge you lose everything after revenge is done, and lose offertunity to make part 3 about redemption
Abby's arms kinda distract me. It sometimes remind me of Spongebob's in that weight lifting episode.
She plays more like a man with how she kills people and infected. Hard to think she's a woman without taking any steroid or hormones.
@@arnowisp6244 I mean, she's essentially been a career soldier for a decade fighting on the frontlines against both the infected and the military, and then against the infected and the serephites.
@@supergatorhator that still wouldn't give you that build. You'd have to take supplements and rigourasly workout on the regular to achieve that kind of build as a female. Her build is akin to a female powerlifter/bodybuilder.
@@supergatorhator Career soldiers are usually skinny because of stress, long hours, and poor nutrition. Sure, they have a baseline of muscle which is just enough to allow them to do what they do, but anything more is too inefficient to hold onto. Abby has a physique that puts most natural female bodybuilders to shame and their lives revolve around building lean mass. Bottom line is her body doesn't make sense from a physiological perspective unless she was using steroids, not a small dose either.
@@SubjectE57 Not exactly. The body type you are born and develop with has to do with it too. It was clear when she was young she was definitely gonna be big.
Last of Us 1: "He ain't even hurt"
Last of Us 2: "Howdy strangers, the name's Joel Miller. Thought I'd walk into the middle of your armed group and ask if y'all wanted to come back home with us."
Yeah, there's about a 0% chance you actually played the game if that's your take on what happened at the mansion.
@@supergatorhator And you're about 100% incorrect. I bought the special edition with the art book I was so excited for this game. If you don't think that part was at the very least contrived, you definitely did not play it.
Lol damn. He may as well have just gave them a list of his fears and his home address as well.
Atahualpas_Ghost actually they said they rarely visit the resort cabin, and if you actually played the game you’d realize there was a fucking blizzard and they didn’t think they’d make it to any of their outposts on horse which is where Abby suggests the resort, with literally no time and seemingly no other option they had to accept. They were being swarmed by infected left and right. And also don’t give me that “Joel never revealed his name to strangers in the last game bs” because joel and Ellie literally tell Henry and Sam their names within MINUTES of meeting them. So you can go ahead and shove that excuse back up your ass from where it came. The fact is that they had just saved Abby and Abby in turn had done her part to help them stay alive so they didn’t perceive any other motive for her. The game sets this up perfectly but you know. You have to be paying attention to really notice it.
I don't get why it's so fucking hard for people to get that after 4 years of relative safety, peace, and decent living in a strong, well-defended community, you might be more welcoming to outsiders. Ellie even comments how that's how it SHOULD be done, and mocks the WLF for killing trespassers on sight.
Jeremy just single handedly developed a better plot of the top of his head.
Not really.
@@Albert-_117 He did
Not really
@@andresjf0608 he did
A safe, predictable, boring af plot for sure. People really are unable to handle the fact that art is supposed to challenge, not just to entertain.
Jeremy looks more and more like Joel as days go pass.
Better watch out, Jeremy, or else someone will invite you to a game of golf before you know it.
Hey, at least he won't go soft and reveal his name.
Jeremy just gave us a 50 times better story than 7 years of development did
This,
The sad bit is, a lot of ideas for better stories probably went through the developer's minds, but they may not have agreed on one so they just mashed them all together and made this, which satisfies no one
On point factz
Not particularly better tho...
Thats how Neil described how they made the game, people would just throw out ideas , and he said I like that and put it in the game, I'm starting to wonder who were the actual talent in game story telling in the first game, because Neil was just a co-writer, we saw what Legend of Korra became a mess, when you look who was missing and guess what the head writer was, not the guys who thought of the original idea but someone who can actually tell a good story from crazy ideas.
“Last of us 2 concept”:Joel and Ellie search for coffee ...
That's what a proper sequel should do, rehash the same story. Oh wait...
pulpficti I’m waiting
That's still a better story than what we got
I would have loved that story give me some of that in-game dialogue that I love so much between Joe and Ellie looking for coffee that would be awesome
"Joel and Ellie should leave Jackson to go after spices" later on the video "why would Ellie leave the farm behind?"
It’s sad when a Fast and Furious movie does a better character send off than a Last Of Us game
I feel like the biggest issue with the game isn't even the plot.
The issue is pacing.
Switching between Abby and Ellie can be extremely jarring at times. (Especially after the theater scene)
It would have played better as a Side A/Side B scenario.
👏🏽 good point
i think that is a good idea. Kind of like resident evil
Both the plot and the pacing were horrible.
yeah the basic plot is fine since its been done basically to death on many stories,its the pacing and general execution thats bad
like how resident evil 2 did leon and claires story separately. that would be alright. you beat ellies side only to start over on abbys side.
First Impression is the most important thing for any new character. Abby killing one of gaming's beloved character is "NOT" a great first impression.
I've said it a million times but I know what they were going for: Negan and Glenn from The Walking Dead comic. i.e. villain kills a beloved main character then becomes a main character. Too bad they bungled the execution just as badly as the TV show. Abby is a vacuum of charisma, she never shows any remorse for anything she's done, etc. The Negan thing worked because he actually reached a point of true remorse by the end. Elle has remorse in this game but Abby? Zero. Not one drop of humanity there.
They rushed to kill of Joel and then a few hours later explained Abby's tragic past instead of doing it the other way around (like every other well written tragic story out there), and by that point most people couldn't care less about her as a character let alone empathize with her. And if you hate her you literally hate playing 50% of this game.
@@BlazingOwnager no humanity? That's the whole point of Abby's arc to help out those two scars and turning against the wolf's. She was engulfed with rage but it didn't fix her life and just ruined the relationships around her.
@@BlazingOwnager Even worse, Abby keeps putting herself up on to higher and higher moral high grounds each time you play as her. Even when we find out she's a murderer, an adulterer, a traitor to her own friends etc. How are we going to like and relate to someone who gets worse the more we learn about them?
Joel is a lying mass murderer. That you hold him in such high regard that you think he should live tells me something about you.
"If by some miracle god gave me a second chance at this moment, I'd do it all over again."
Im crying loud right now
Yeah... that hurt... Pretty much every one of the Joel cutscenes was like a punch to the gut. I don't know if I've ever empathised with a character in a game the way I did with Ellie when re-living her memories of Joel.
I would rather relive my parents divorce than play this game again
Wow that's a burn right there.
@@iforgot87872 Damn right ✊🔥
I wouldn’t wanna play this at all