Certainly one of my favorite games and it’s cool I share your opinions on the game. As you said the TLOU 1 is more straightforward than 2 as it’s actually more complicated to analyze if you don’t get the story beats with Abby. Oof I need to sleep I’ll finish another time. I enjoyed your vid btw if ya couldn’t tell 😔🤩😂
Same 😱 I've been thinking about her dreams/nightmares so much and how it's kind of symbolic to what she's going through, but I haven't seen anyone else notice/mention it
Joels coffee quote is so surreal. "Im a little embarrassed as to what I had to trade to get it, but its not bad" drawing a parallel btwn Ellie and what she had to trade to get her piece of mind. A perfect quote
I also noticed Abby start to second guess herself quite a bit after she did kill Joel. She didn't regret killing him, but I got the feeling she was troubled by Ellie pleading for Joel on the ground... it reminded her of herself. She says she needed to "lighten the load" when she helped the two Scar "kids" - even asks Owen "what happened to us?" and he responds "Maybe we stopped looking for the light". They just became a part of the WLF, Abby got obsessed with killing Joel, Owen started killing scars mindlessly for goals that weren't his own... until that one guy who he just couldn't mindlessly kill as an "enemy". I really do think that the game is a fantastic inspection of how we all have our perspectives that determine heavily how we see things. Every faction thinks when they "blow up checkpoints" (actual reference in the game to what Fireflies did), then "it's different" from when others do it. Because they know their own cause and own reasons, own "good goals" and their justifications for those actions. So yes, thank you for this fantastic video. The constant hate was quite a bummer to see. Not that I'm not ok with people disliking something I like.. I AM. But there was(still is) a huge trending hate train and largely even from people who didn't give the game a chance - only read the bulletpoints and decided it sucks. Or people who played it on stream, making jokes, laughing around, distracted with their audiences or friends... I mean, it's "all good", but saw so many people *entirely* miss all of those things that happen in the game that are *NOT SPELLED OUT TO YOU* ... like how Abby wakes up distressed that you can only see from her facial expressions. Or how we only later on realize that when Elly is hearing Nora out before she kills her, she isn't beating the info out of her what Joel did... but instead she already KNEW what Joel had done. But what she GOT was confirmation from Nora that what Joel did was the reason he was killed.. That realization that she had probably already had time to fear turns her own thoughts towards herself; She has been on a revenge mission for an event that was directly caused by Joel and kinda her own survival. That Joel's death... was largely Joel's responsibility; a consequence of what she had wanted to put behind them and forgive... and now she never would have the chance to. Which only fueled her hatred and anger - which we see in how Nora dies. It really is a game, where if I had stopped playing in a moment when I'm VERY INTENDED to be feeling negative emotions - I would've missed out on the journey that the game is and would not have seen the big picture that ended up in me really digging it, to the point of also thinking about it for weeks. (AND also having written a huge textfile full of thoughts about I didn't publish to anywhere haha). One of the best games I've played at least in the amount of how much it made me truely feel and think. Better stop writing or I'll also write a much longer essay. This is already too damn long.
I'll still add the first "thing" in my little "essay" I wrote to my text file after having played the game; "I expected Joel might not live through the game... but when it happened, I wasn't ready. I expected my father will die of his lung cancer... but when it happened, I wasn't ready. It happened so much sooner than I thought it would. I thought that when it would happen, it'd be an end that feels.. dignified or... complete. Like an ending. "Intended"... "Prepared for him". "Deserving of him".. But that wasn't the case in either. This is why, despite being so shocked that I had to stop playing and go to sleep for the night to process what had just happened, I find the writing in Last of Us so good. I feel it manages to avoid just telling pretty stories, filled with cliché's better than other game plots. Or at least manages to create the illusion of not being "purpose built just for a storyline". We always expect an ending to our hero to be grand and worthy... just like I thought my father would get a dignified, fitting end - a deserving end for my hero. We surely expect even ourselves to get a textbook "ending" to our story we very much live in and piece to ourselves. But we likely won't get anything like that - no movie endings... life just doesn't play by those rules. So while Joel's death was absolutely shocking, ugly, anger inducing... it *felt* like experiencing actual loss. It was more believable to me, than a longwinded buildup that we could predict from a mile away. The way how this piece of fiction manages to make me feel so deeply is largely because of how believable it feels and a part of why I think this is rather a masterpiece than a failure by any means"
She does become more complex. Lev and the seraphites introduce a lot of grey areas and deeper ideas. However,she can't allow herself to truly regret it lest she falls apart.
@@sarcasm-83 I would've been so pissed if Joel had died in some sort of "last stand/alamo" sacrifice, saving everyone he loves cliche. The unexpectedness and sheer brutality really hammered into me how Joel, in the end; was only human, and an imperfect one at that.
The biggest irony in the whole game is that Ellie sets out for the last time to kill Abby, but what she does is actually saving her and Lev's life because they would have died on that pole. So If Ellie never leaves the farm, Abby and Lev would be dead.
Yep. And that's only possible because Abby spared Ellie and Dina when she could have killed them! In the end it's mercy that pays dividends for both parties. Like Bilbo sparing Gollum going onto have ripple effects that save the world.
That 'Hopeful on the surface but with misery underneath' is fuckin deep and part 2 'misery on the surface but hopefull underneath' is beautiful interpretation..
Here's the reddit comment he's referring to: www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/hikm9p/part_ii_does_not_betray_the_legacy_of_tlou_it/fwgzhvi/?context=3
One thing I find interesting is how Abby breaking the cycle and letting Ellie live ultimately saves her. If not for Ellie going to get revenge. Abby and Lev would have died at the end of the game.
Damn just like that time abby broke the cycle by sparing joel after joel and tommy saved abby from zombies... oh wait. But but but abby good and sympathetic and she broke the cycle of revenge by sparing ellie?
@@soham.banerjee the point is that it doesn't matter until you can accept your loss and make peace with it. The game isn't about who started or ended what, or right or wrong.
I’ve seen so many arguments for why the writing is terrible and other arguments for why it’s actually really well done... really shows how perspective can mean everything
I played the game and i was lucky to avoid spoilers to the point that i actually did not know what was spoiled. I think this is a game is gonna age better than the first one (not saying TLOU 1 is dated) because most issues people have with the game, the only good arguments i actually heard against the story are ones regarding the pacing and how some of the scenes should have been restructured. A lot of the discussion is actually around Joel and how he died unceremoniously like a dog which no doubt was the fitting and deserving end in the last of us world. Human Dignity is not something we can preserve throgh hate and pain and that is the point of the story.
@@marawantarek1951 the fact that people are mad because Joel didn't died like a hero makes me roll my eyes so hard they get stuck back there for a moment.
@@athoswolff776 yeah, but I had issues on how his death was executed. I understand the game was trying to depict the dark world of the last of us and start the plot but ... The way Joel death was executed just didn't really make sense. Tommy and Joel characters that were so well developed through the 1st game seemed to be nothing like in that scene. Joel wasn't the type of guy to freely help some random person and we see him in the 1st game where he was able to convince Tommy to follow the same path when they past by some strangers in the intro of the 1st last of us. Okay, but what if their characater's changed throughout the five years? It could happen but that has to be shown to give some context for the audience. Now killing main characters are fine, it adds to the realism but it needs to make sense or at least be a believable. Game of thrones, the red wedding is a great example; Main characters die but it's believable to the audience and makes sense.
@@athoswolff776 But I can understand why people would prefer Joel dying as a hero instead of a golf club. The last of us 1 focused a lot on the character development and relationship between Joel and Ellie so much where most of the audience was able bond and love these characters. By letting Joel die in a heroic way, that could help complete his character arc that is still satisfying in a way for fans, instead of something that feels slighlty rushed to subvert expectations and shock fans.
Joel does sacrifice himself for Ellie. He killed the doctor to save her life in the hospital, it just took 4 years for the sacrifice to catch up with him.
@Grailer and while Joel may have come to depend on their relationship for closure in his own life. The fireflies didn't give him a choice, they wouldn't at least let her wake up so she could make the decision herself which is stupid, like why was there such a rush. And in fairness the doctor is misguided. Even if this vaccine did work, there's no way to distribute it meaningfully, it'll be another commodity. In other words one more thing that will be traded, raided, or killed for.
PandaBean big agree. not to mention they’re sacrificing so much valuable study that could be done if they merely kept her alive to perform tests, brain scans, collect blood/tissue samples; there is so much information to be gleaned from a living subject and even if, in the end, there was no other choice but to cut into her brain, the least they could’ve done is say “we’ve done all that we can do, let’s take the next step” and ask for ellie’s consent first
@Grailer well you know how retconning goes. I also remembered the doctor differently in the first. And for a supposed medical professional, he thinks kill an immune test subject first before running tests. Like again, this is a *chance* operation. He can't guarantee that he'd be any closer to knowing a vaccine, let alone a cure (which by the way, there's no cure or way of fighting a fungal infection like this. We create vaccines to fight viruses not fungus. So from that viewpoint it's even more pointless to kill Ellie.) Just more importantly, the issue with this is that they choice the wrong focus, I could understand this revenge line if it was instead for killing Marlene leader of the fireflies, instead of this half-cocked doctor that makes very poor medical decisions and frankly is kinda a poor basis to build off of in the first place. You see regarding what we know about medicine and what i said earlier these clearly aren't concepts the game understands because it never set out to answer them in the first place, so coming back 7 years later to feel compassion for this doctor making a rushed call like this is just a bad call. What the focus should have been on was ending the Fireflies, this mixed group of radical individuals who have banded together under solidarity and a belief in the future. Because Joel ended them that day and that would have been way more interesting angle to come at this story from. Remember everyone there to kill Joel. Why are they there? Oh yeah to help Abby. Not because they personally care. Even Owen says I want what you want, implying he didn't really give a shit if Joel died or not. None of them were invested in this. I mean they've only heard about how shit Joel is from Abby, they have no personal investment besides the ex-fireflies who again don't give a shit about Abby's dad. No one cares about Abby's dad. But everyone would have cared about Marlene, their Queen. The mother figure who took them in and made them feel like family. This game wants to have so much to talk about with deep personal relationships and yet only a select few act out of it. Doing Abby a favor should not be the motive for the majority of Abby's crew. Make them more invested in why they would ALL want to chase Joel down. Even this dumbass pregnant chick who's trying to get her baby killed while on the front lines.
And at the same time you’re dealing with having to hurt a character you love so dearly! I had to keep pausing and putting my controller down, I was getting nauseous and dizzy from the guilt of hunting Ellie down
Idk man, to me at least this was the worst part of the game. I was so disengaged with what they were trying to with the story that I didn't really care about actually beating Ellie. I just wanted to get it over with so I could see where they were going next. That's just me tho
I just hate that Ellie has no remorse killing everybody else even if they did nothing wrong to her but she does have a problem with killing the woman that killed her 'father'
@@EJD339 the gameplay was fking awesome, and most of the story holds up. I have to say killing off Joel and then letting you play like Abby was very balsy. but it's just kind of a missed opportunity for me. Imagine we really started to fall in love with the character of Abby after she killed Joel. So the player has this feeling of grief twice, when abby kills joel and when Ellie kills abby. So the character you hated is now the character you cry for.
@@michiel1162 She did not want to kill Mel and Owen and felt so bad about killing Mel, a pregnant woman, that she broke down and wanted to go home over continuing to find Abby. She also came back to the museum with shaking hands after torturing Nora for information, signifying that it did take a toll on her. Edit: there's another top comment thread that goes i to more depth about how Nora was the first person she killed without it being self defense and that it made her start questioning if what she was doing was actually justified and worth putting pregnant Dinah in danger.
@@Dlord1PlayStation she killed since childhood tho, remember when she blasted a dude who tried to drown Joel in the first one. Kind of nonsensical arguments but i respect the time you put into it
I see the theme of obsession leading to destruction all through out this game. Kinda like the obsession of some of the fans being so immense, it destroyed their ability to see the game in another light, or even enjoy it.
Well when you waited 7 years and a game kills of a loved character like that, all you want is revenge. Ellies story was okay, average. But abby's story was just sooo anoying. I didn't like playing as her. I killed her sooo many times on purpose because I hated playong as her. And if you think about it. It was abby's side who started all of this. Not joel. Het father wanted to kill ellie and joel prevented it. If my father is trying to kill a child and the childs father kills my father, I would get it. And I actually would think he did what had to be done.
someone from the Netherlands I feel like it’s really hard to say you’d get it and be chill with someone killing your dad, when he’s trying to do what he thinks is right, when it hasn’t happened
AngryJoe review says it best, objectively. It's a 6/10. Dog shit writing, pacing and overall plot. Plenty of plot armour etc. Gotta ask, if you hated Season 8 of GoT, you'll hate The Last of Us 2. Boring gameplay. Make it as pretty as you want, but polishing a turd doesn't make it not a turd.
well, i can see why so many player can and do enjoy it, but for me the sloppy written plot and stupid acting characters really kills the atmosphere :/ i just hate bad writing. i cant help it. i know there are a lot of great ideas in the game, but man, the storytelling is sooooooooooooo bad...
Update: 3 months later and I'm still thinking about this game every day. There was so much more I got out of the game on my second and third play-through that I had to change the title of this video. I didn't even get to talk about how they gave Ellie closure with her immunity. Ellie's biggest issue with Joel's decision at the end of the first game is that he renders her immunity useless. Now she's just living her life, watching everyone die while knowing she's immune, but this time there's nothing she can do about it (unlike the first game where she thought she could be a cure). BUT, by the end of the game, she realizes that she doesn't have to die for her life to matter. When Ellie says "I should have died in that hospital, my life would have f***king mattered" and Joel tells her that he'd "do it all over again", She tells him that she is willing to forgive him. The Ellie that walks off in the end of this game doesn't just have closure for Joel's death, but a realization that she can have a life outside of her immunity. "Joel's decision took meaning from Ellie’s life, but through his death he was able to help her find it again"
Totally! I loved how all the flashbacks that she had is the entire mental process to reach that conclusion. That she deserves to be happy. I love your video. Everytime someone ask me why i loved this game i send the link of this video as a reply.
Interesting. I don’t agree with her getting closure, or her realization that she doesn’t have to die for her life to matter, or that Joel’s death somehow gave her meaning again. Those are all possibilities but I don’t think they are implied any more than the opposite is implied. I felt more that this game almost made it a point to NOT give clear implications. It didn’t give any answers, rather it provoked questions. I felt like it was a portrait or snapshot of the human experience, leaving the player to make their own inferences which are largely influenced by their own personal experiences and personalities. So it’s almost impossible for me to 100 percent agree with you. I personally have a much more nihilistic view of the events in the game. For example, I don’t believe Joel’s death helped anything, and that’s largely the point. Silver linings are often things of fiction, inaccurately portraying the lack of silver linings in reality, and to me, this game served as a reminder of that. Closure, meaning in life, our lives mattering - none of those are guaranteed.
Currently on my 2nd play through and I love everything about this game. No other game has ever made think of the choices and the story that this game has accomplished. Most of the initial response of the game was the hate for the choices on story elements. But it sets up the big picture of the story on how these main characters have gone through similar events in their life and tells that these cannot find the closure that they are looking for. Only as the story progresses, you, as the player, experience each of their torment and daily struggle with themselves. How their quest for revenge has driven their closest friends and loved ones away. This isn’t just a game. It’s an experience. My hats off to your review!
I've seen around 20 reviews.. this is hands down the best. Also the end is not that bleak. Read this comment on TH-cam somewhere. "Crazy thing is....I truly believe Ellie did have a happy ending, we just missed the clues... another TH-camr commented on the letter you find at the farm when you are with Dina and the baby. It's from the baby's father's mom saying they will always have a place in Jackson if they choose to come back home. Also if you notice.....when Ellie leaves to fight Abby at the end....she's not wearing the bracelet Dina gave her....but when she returns...the camera zooms in on her hand ...we were focused on the fingers missing but looked completey passed the fact that now she is wearing the bracelet, possibly meaning she has already been to Jackson...and is living with Dina......she just went back to the farm for the guitar....but decided to leave it. That represents her finally being able to accept Joel's death and end the cycle of revenge. Here's some more things to back this claim...... 1. When she comes back to the farm...she's not hurt or not wearing any of her weapons. 2. She doesn't seem surprised that everyone is gone when she enters the house. She doesn't call out Dina's name or anything. I think people were so caught up in "Revenge" that they missed all of these details.
Saw this comment as well, it is so cool this game has such details. Instead of saying what is happening, they are showing this, sometimes in a subtle manner. And this is clearly the harder thing. After beating the game I was like "wtf was that? In a good way, but still. And there were lots of monents which I considered as plot holes, but if you really pay attentions to symbols (just like with Abbie dreams), you will understand the motivation of a character. Thus, the story will unwrap.
i dont think she went back to jackson. jackson is towards the west(?) of the farm, towards the valley. the gate she went to is southward, same way she went when she went to kill abby .
I don't think so. She's not carrying any weapons because it would have looked weird in the scene. For the same reason Joel and Ellie are not carrying any in the epilogue of the first game. She's not surprised Dina is gone because Dina told her that she's going away if Ellie leaves. Ellie probably wasn't wearing Dina's bracelet in the final chapter because Dina didn't want her to go so she just took if off as an act of some respect to her and put it on again when she was coming home. The way the guitar and the vinyl were set in the room clearly tells us that Dina left it this way for Ellie if she comes back.
Dude this was excellent!! You took the words right out of my mouth - the point you made that I didn’t realise was how she let the spirit of her and Joel’s relationship live on in Abby and Lev. HOW DID I MISS THAT?? Man it makes so much sense... Glad you got this out, excellent video essay. Hopefully Naughty Dog sees this!
It’s crazy to think that Tommy’s obsession saved Abby in the end . Without convincing Ellie to hunt for Abby again her and lev would have died in Santa Barbra . If he would have tried to let go and move on he would have gotten what he wanted at the end . I 100% agree with you on this review man . Naughty dog took a big risk with the plot and they know they did . It’s no means a 10/10 but in regards to how it made me feel I was emotionally drained by the end of the game . I hope this game ages like fine wine because on the surface I can see why people don’t like this game but I personally loved it and how different of a approach they took overall .
Even crazier is to think that if Abby and Lev didn't spare Dina and Ellie in the theater, they would have died later in Santa Barbra so by saving them they saved themselves
Bro I did not realize this was a whole 20 minutes until it was over. I don't know how you did it, but I didn't even check the length at ANY point in the video. Insane job man, genuinely a great watch (as someone who didn't know anything about TLOU before).
Yo ive spoiled myself and thats caused me to be interested and learn everything from the beginning before so i get this on a spiritual level, but bro i highly highly reccomend giving the first game a try, even if its through a playthrough vid, the first 15 minutes was enough to hook me in and its one of the best story driven games ive ever gotten to experience 😤👌
It's sad that everybody was getting on a hate train without seeing a perspective like this, thankfull that someone said what ive been thinking the last weeks/months.
Well considering Druckmanns reaction to criticism towards the game was to dismiss the very idea that he may have made a bad game. And anybody who does criticize the game is just a hater. The hate is well deserved.
@@frenchfriedbagel7035 tbf the majority of people who publicly complained about it did only dislike it cause of personal likes or dislikes, nothing actually flawed with the game
@@ztlabraptor211 there’s a lot of flaws with the game. Namely in the actual structure of the story and how it kills all narrative momentum just to force you to play as the character you want to see dead for 10 hours.
Thank you. Best analysis really. Tlou2: “Dissapoints me” Me: I don’t think i can ever forgive you for that “Watches this review” Me: But i’d like to... try :’(
i finished the game like 2 weeks ago and i still could not accept the whole thing. im one of those guys who hated the story and even gave a 1/10 on metacritic casue i was so damn friggin disappointed cause this is what i've been waiting for a very long time and when ellie says "im gonna find and im gonna kill, every. last. one of them." i was already ready to kill everyone, i was kinda prepared to have revenge big time and i was pumped as hell. this review kinda opens your eyes and yeah, your comment says it all. i'd like to try.
At first when there is the switch half way through, I was angry when I figured out Itd be like that for a while, but then you get used to it, and it ends up being really profound for me. I also cried. A lot.
@Jamison higgs yeah the sex scene was more surprising than the RatKing. I hope with time people chill out and we get a DLC and a 3rd game. This game reminded me of The Grave of the Fireflies a film that I can say is one of the saddest I've ever seen and only recommend to people I hate so they can suffer as much as I did.
I really wish people understood the game as much as you, no matter if they liked it or not. What naughtydog did with this game was bold and unforgettable. Like no game I've ever experienced before.
@Purplehayes91 Seeing the amount of braindead people screaming the message is just: "revenge is bad" , seriously leaves me wondering if they understand the nuances of the story lol
I agree with you, and literally at the end of the day, what matters is what the game did FOR YOU. It doesn't matter if a lot of people hated it or not, because you yourself matter and people tend to rely heavily on others and what they feel. Sometimes it can really be down to just you against the whole world. It still doesn't make the whole world right and your wrong, no. I agree with you though and everyone else who just doesn't get the game or liked it, I'm glad they don't. They don't deserve to in the 1st place :)
@@neshaoinspopolk4417 it has a 95/100 from reviews but about a 5/10 from the general public. Seems like it's very split half and half with people either loving it or hating it
the thing about the world of the last of us is it’s a miserable, dangerous, cruel world which makes the beautiful moments shine even brighter. i really liked that about this game, how despite circumstance there are still moments of goodness, of humanity. i think it’s intended to draw attention to beautiful moments in our own lives, in spite of how tragic life can be. there is always balance to be found, for where there is darkness, there is also light.
reid james Exactly! It was always dark even in the DLC yet people seem to forget that because they have this heroic view of the main characters. Idk why they expected a honorable death for any characters just cuz they like them. Throughout Ellie’s search for revenge the only person on Abbys group that I felt bad for in terms of how they died is Nora but I expected nothing less from Ellie because of they dark aura around her rage
@@tituschhangte1217 Only because in her opinion the execution worked. The only reason she was able to give such an analysis is because she understood what the devs sought ought to do
it breaks every Shakespeare rule, it's gose against everything the first game built, it's like a religious cult trying to give you self guilt and preach urbanized morals.
@@jadedragon5541 that's a reach. Thematically, it's exactly what the first game built. Characters aren't themes in of themselves. You can kill a character, but not their influence on plot, themes or motivations.
I feel like a lot of people miss that Ellie and Abby are on the same path but going in opposite directions. Abby kills Joel and is still torture but slowly is regaining her humanity after this incident. Meanwhile Ellie is mowing her way thru people hunting Abby chipping away at hers. Abby is going back to save people and Ellie is torturing that girl by the elevator for info on Abby. I really loved that juxtaposition to the story. Great write up breh.
There's no redemption for any of them. Abby doesn't deserve sympathy neither does Ellie. Tommy didn't helped the situation either by going after Abby first.
"We all have different opinions, the problem starts when we feel our opinion is worth more than what anyone else can say", -Random quote i found on the internet
So its an issue that the majority of people strongly agree that nazism is terrible? Some opinions are flat out more valid and logical than other stupid opinions.
@@BadGrief That's the thing opinions are not meant to be judged, doesn't matter if you find them illogical or not. Some idiots are so quick to judge me for liking this game, like I do judge you when you say you hate the game, so why can't you show me the same respect.
@@mryoung6090 so someone's opinion that diddling kids is fine is not meant to be judged? Saying opinions aren't meant to be judged is probably the most stupid thing anyone has ever said
One of the best, and most thoughtful, reviews of The Last of Us 2 that I've seen. While the switch from Ellie to Abby is jarring, I applaud ND for being ballsy enough to even attempt something of this scope in arguably their biggest franchise. In the end, fighting a withered, unrecognizable Abby, was just plain painful to endure. I am glad they both survived. While I didn't quite enjoy all my time with Abby, she turned out to be one of my favorite characters. 10 out of 10 for me.
Agree on the switch. I think it was really interesting and something that a lot of game companies wouldn't have had the guts to do. I like how you learn to empathise with Abby and even like her but while still being aware of who she is and what she's capable of. I felt genuinely upset seeing Abby up on that cross. She was in the middle of taking steps towards a new healthier, happier life with someone she loved and it was all taken away from her. I just hoped she was able to find peace and heal.
This game sucked the story was just sad for being sad, even watching this review didnt changed my mind the defense and the analysis defending this game sounds forced
@@samueljosehenao8360 Don’t need ur negativity lol. People just like the game and nothing is forced. The story and the world of TLOU is just really deep and its really more than just a game!
@@samueljosehenao8360 lol, sure dude. You do you, that's cool. But lots of people, like millions of people LOVE this game. It's literally won Game of the year already from a few prestigious awards. It's super alright that it wasn't your thing, every one perceives differently and has different expectations, but it sure as hell wasn't a "bad" story, nor have positive reviews around it needed any "forcing".
You realize you can understand the story and also realize it’s huge flaws right? The story isn’t bad, just the way it was told was terrible. Fix the story structure and a few small writing decisions here and there and it would’be been so much better.
I haven't busted into tears in a long time, all it took was going to Joel's house and looking at his watch, and just like that I wanted revenge, I hated everything. But as I played more and more I sometimes felt like a wild goose chase. Was it worth it? Yes, a few days ago I told my dad I love him and we spent some quality time together. I forgived him over things he had done. I understood why he did them. Everything is good now
i sometimes wonder if those who appreciated it more can just relate on a personal level with having close parents. my father died when i was their age, the pain and heartache was unimaginable. when i see both ellie and abby's backstory it hit really hard, for both of them. i don't love the game but i def appreciated the depths they went to tell a unique story
@Toori Baba It's not that she didn't experience the repercussions, it's that their story's follow the same path but they are both at different points of the story. Abby has 4 yours of festering hatred. She pushed her femininity and close relations to the side so that she could turn herself in a person who could guarantee revenge. She was obsessed. After she got her revenge she notices that she doesn't feel relieved at all and feels guilty about what she has done. Later she is forced to deal with the fact that all her friends have died because of her obsession with revenge. Because of her guilt she found a new light and decided to cling onto it (Yara and Lev) like Joel did with Ellie. Ellie in a similar way was obsessed by the fact that Joel took away the meaning of her life. She couldn't let that go which damaged her relationship with the only person who she deeply cared about. After his death she knows that she didn't get the opportunity to make it right with him and she also know how much she meant to Joel leaving her with a lot of guilt which turns into anger towards Abby and her friends. On the way to revenge she loses much (her humanity, Jesse and Tommy will never be the same. She knows it's the cause of her actions). Now at this point if she had totally nothing the decision to continue revenge would be easy, so they had to show you the life Ellie could've had. The obsession weighs far more of you're willing to risk everything for it, instead of nothing. She desperately wants to stay, but because of the guilt she feels (also towards Tommy now) and her PTSD, going after Abby seems like the only choice for her to relieve her of her issues. While fighting Abby she realises that what she's doing now (killing for the person you loved) is the same as what Joel did for her. Making her able to forgive Joel, herself and Abby knowing it won't serve her any purpose. Also seeing the parallel of Joel and herself within Abby and Lev. At this point Ellie isn't broken anymore. She is definitely hurt, but hope exists. Just like Abby had to find her hope in Lev. Ellie has that same chance now. On an ending note (pushing all the friends she lost and the loss of the life she had aside) Abby was also enslaved and tortured for a few months so she definitely was punished but it wasn't a direct effect of her revenge
Well u are right and that is a shame, beucause i think this game is a masterpiece if u really understand the story and dont start crying because of the sad moments. I mean there are even people rageing, because u have to kill dogs.
@@quiettimegaming3642 art is to be analyzed and discussed, not to be taken at pure face value. You have to understand the message and the themes, not everything has to be spelled out in your face. This is why i hate gamers
@@ryz9045 LOL EXACTLY how braindead can someone be to not EXPECT Joel to die in part 2? it honestly amazes me how fucking stupid some people in the gaming community are
@Ευαγγελος Ζερβας εγω γενικοτερα ειμαι της αποψης οτι δεν θα επρεπε να βγει το παρτ 2 Το στορυ στο 1 αν και τελειωσε με αρκετες ερωτησεις που δεν ειχαν απαντηθει,θεωρω ηταν αυτο που εκανε το γκειμ τοσο ξεχωριστο
i literally hated Abby from the beginning. then after playing as her for a few hours i really grew to like her and understand her and i didnt want either of them to die. thank u for this video :)
Yeah same her part was just as good and tense as Ellie’s, I get she killed Joel and we all love him but realistically he was a horrible man and received his karma, his past finally caught up to him and he morally he got what he deserved. He literally slaughtered an entire hospital of doctors just trying to make a cure and vaccine to have hope to save humanity. They had families and friends. If I was in abby shoes, I’d probably do no different.
After I finished the game, I was left with the feeling that the game kinda missed the mark for me even though I personally enjoyed it. That it can't quite top the first game since I felt the pacing and length held it back quite a bit. Watching your breakdown of the characters, story, etc (along with Girlfriend Reviews' fantastic analysis video) has allowed me to look back on the game in a different light and I now have a better appreciation for the risks that Naughty Dog has taken to bring this story to life. With that, I am truly thankful you've made this enlightening video to help me see beyond my own perspective of the game. Cheers for that, dude~
The second playthrough was great for me. Picking up on all the subtext and symbolism I missed, able to enjoy the emotion of each moment without worrying about what was coming. It's so good.
Like every one else , I loved the first TLOU and I was afraid I wasn’t going to like this one. But man was it good I can’t stop thinking about, it was absolutely not the story I wanted but after thinking and reflecting on it, it’s growing on me.
@@ahugegorilla1575 The story is definitely something that not everyone will like, but it's still a shame that so many people are quick to throw out terms like "bad writing" and "pandering" to justify their dislike rather than try to find another perspective to understand the story.
no need to. i personally dont like the story of this game, but i can see why so many players enjoyed it. it has some really good ideas, but it also has some great weaknesses. but if you think its a 10/10 its fine. its your opinion, even if more objectively reviews give the game a 5-7/10. and i think thats very fair.
@@Habertod "even if more objectively reviews give the game a 5-7/10." LOL... Objective reviews... Technically is a 10/10 game. No other game has so much work on it. The only contrived point is the story, wich can be bad for some (and I understand why), and superb for others (like me, just to give an example). Some people like scorsese, some people like Quentin Tarantino...
@@sandrobsnake Agreed. Still, I feel like saying it is a bad story is even unfair. The weakest moments in this game’s story are better than half the shit we get with other video games. It may be unfavorable but not bad.
This game been getting hate before it come out, in the trailer it show Ellie kissing another girl, then Abby was trans, then the leaks and how Joel die, then how Naughty Dog employers were leaving the company. I guess you have to play it and find out if you like it or not.
@@sandrobsnake Is odd comparing video games to movies. A lot of people score this game and put Joel's dead into the equation, I think if hard for people who loved the first game no to do it. But for some people this game is a most buy when will you be able to play the "hero" and the antagonist at the same time? But for people who wanted to play Joel is hard to sell.
True but I always assumed they had problems based on the little screen time they had. Tommy was your typical brow beaten husband and they seemed to have communication problems subtly hinted at
Yes that was explicitly explained in the game but also it was more about sinking into that cycle of violence and despair giving up everything wonderful just for a little closure. Now as someone who NEVER got closure in both my personal and professional life this resonated with me so hard. My combat-related PTSD even made this game uncomfortable to play often but man I just wanna talk about this absolute magnum opus of videogames. Nothing will ever compare or outdo to Naughty dog and as a minima fanboy this is difficult to admit
This is a fantastic analysis and it's everything I felt once I completed this game. I went into it completely blind, ensured I avoided literally all spoilers and any videos, the only thing I knew was it had one of the most controversial and biggest spoiler leaks I think I've ever seen. So I was aware the game was getting a lot of backlash but was willing to go into it ignoring all of this and deciding for myself. I was completely blown away by the game, for the same reasons you analysed the story (as well as gameplay, graphics, acting etc). Then I finally went online to get the opinions of others and it actually upset me lol. I think people are used to a certain role from characters and a certain form of storytelling and they do not want any different. They're willing to accept that in smaller titles/games but if its a huge triple A title they expect the same cliche aspects of a story. Its upsetting as I think people are confusing them being angry with the direction of the story with criticising it for just being a bad story. The latter simply just is not true. Furthermore I genuinely think the story leaks and the backlash had a massive impact on the general consensus. Everyone started piling on ND at once. I think it's the way human nature works sometimes and people seeing the general consensus being pure hatred they had already decided no matter what how the game tells this story, I will hate it no matter what. That's why this hatred of the game is so sad, it just does not feel genuine.
I could not agree more man, I did the same thing and feel the same way People took themselves the chance to experience the game on their own and make up their own opinion about it, having an open mind for how the story plays out, before having it made up by others
I was the same way, I finished it and was like wow that was the best game ive ever played, lets go see what the internet has to say... "It's lazy writing!"...???? Like bro there are literally 4 parallel timelines all complete with symbolism, player-character-growth, climaxes, EGO DEATH!... They killed the main character and made an entirely new character to follow like how is that "lazy" lol some people. Then again I realize most the haters on the internet are probably 17 years old and im like why even bother lol.
@@spencerbell8386 man im only 22 and i love this game, i love stories that are morally gray, thats why i loved shows like Breaking Bad, Part 2 was cool, anyone can be the villain to another person's story
One thing I've learned as I've gotten older (gosh saying that makes me feel REALLY old) is that it's a normal human reaction to be angry when something challenges your views, it's your brain's defense mechanism. A lot of people automatically get angry without even really knowing why, and I've found the more I play the game, the more I love the parts that I was originally angered by.
I feel like in games or movies or anything, it’s better to let the developers f**k with you and make you sad, not just think “I know what they’re doing and I’m not falling for it”
@@jasonalv7436 That's understandable. I personally really like Abby though. I've managed to really get used to her and understood her character, Seattle Day 1 was exhausting but my favorite parts of the game were when I was playing as her. The Rat King, Haven, L e v. Of course it took me playing it twice to warm up to her.
I wasn't ready for any of them to die because they were at their lowest point I wanted Ellie to gain some weight and Abby to beef up so it could've been a real fight. I kind of pittied Abby when ellie pushed her in the water and she said "No, I'm not going to fight you" I was like dang and seeing Ellie messed up I was like extra dang I barely pressed buttons in the final fight because the game had me feeling the way Abby and Ellie looked at the end lol.
I literally gave you 1 minute standing ovation for this incredible review, i beat LOU2 3 days ago i was kinda disappointed but enjoyed the game and i really liked Abby side of the story but now after i watched your video i finally get the bigger picture, you gave me clear thought about game i even found my own closure while i was watching your video, thank you Nathan for this review again we need more people like who understands the depth of videogames's narrative storeline.
The analysis actually makes me hate it more because this type of story is not how u show respect to game especially when both protagonist are unlikeable and unrelatable when compared to Joel and Ellie in the first game.
damn, your point of view is really valid. I hate this game, and so mad when I had to play Abby. But after listen to what you say, it change my perspective. I can't say I like this game, but at the very least, I am holding less grudge against this game. Thank you for your hard work! subs already.
Seeing comments like this always makes me happy, I really feel for fans who hated part 2 cuz I know that’s a sucky feeling to have about a game this anticipated. Hoping more people can at least feel more neutral about it, viewing the characters through the lens of trauma really changed how I saw the story. Like every character is motivated by trauma in some realistic form or another in ways that play pivotal roles in the story’s development. The psych nerd in me just loves what they did with it haha can’t help but think this game’s gonna open up a new branch of thoughtful growth-fostering narratives in the industry
@@golgariplague4746 I agree. Because Abby goes to a bunch of places that make the world feel more open, while Ellie has just a simple point a to point b story structure. One way to get revenge. But for Abby, it was bad at first, because I hated her. But when I started to like her it got wayy better.
That's an amazing way to put it. Let's take Joel killing the fireflies, and Marlene, we were fine with that, because we loved Joel, and thogiht that everything he did was right, but all those people Joel killed, were just that. PEOPLE, with their own lifes. But we don't pay attention to that. In life, we grow attached to things, and wr don't want them to go away, or depart from us, so Joel diying was a genuine shock to everyone that loved him. And the instant reaction to that, to killing someone we so deeply cared about, is hating and wanting rhe person that killed him dead. There is the hate for Abby. But Joel wasn't a Saint, no one in tlou is. They all kill, in the most horrible ways, there is no good nor bad, its just people doing what they THINK is right. Joel killed Abbys father, so Abby wanted revenge, and she got it. Abby kills Joel, Ellies surrogate father, and Ellie wants to go on revenge as well as Tommy. But through the game, we see all these characters develop. Ellie kills all these people, out of rage, and so does Abby. They both learn to forgive, after devastating events happened in their own lifes. People need to see perspectives, in life you don't get everything you want. You have to deal with loss, the consequences of revenge and vengeance, and the result of rhe actions it took you to reach that point. This game should have teached people that forgiveness is essential in healing. Ellie decided to spare Abby, because there was no point, killing her would just make her feel more empty, and Ellie killing all of Abbys friends leads to the development of Abby. There is so much contrived points in this game, so complex and thogihtful. The simple fact that this game manages to to split a fanbase apart, means it told its story, and that's what makes it a mssterpeice.
@@NotFromHere. Ellie literally killed a pregnant girl… if your gonna be mad about how Joel died, you need to apply that to EVERY character. It’s the apocalypse, and Joel had his death coming, for murdering the only people who had the knowledge to try and save humanity. Joel was selfish. He lied to Ellie about what happened for years, and that lie destroyed there relationship. Joel was a mass murder who killed whoever was in his way. He’s not the Arthur Morgan hero you want him to be. He died how he lived. Sorry your mad you didn’t get your stereotypical formulaic and predictable happy ending, but this game isn’t made to hold your hand and give you what you want.
@@colmmchugh7644 I don't think that's the point OP was trying to make... It's more that these two creators who don't usually talk about video games on their channels have both made their latest video about video games
Cupcake Without The Icing this!! and also that they both stated that it's "not their usual content" but in fact talking about something they're passionate about and being compelling is why i follow them
TLOU2 is the most emotional I’ve gotten playing a video game and the most I thought about a game after I beat it. It’s not the best game I’ve ever played but it’s my favorite
Thank you so much for this video! I just finished TLOU2 and people online not understanding that the point of the game isn't "revenge bad" was driving me crazy. The game revolved so much around the characters' unresolved trauma and pain I was honestly surprised so many people missed it. One of the best sequels I've ever experienced in ANY form of media. I don't think I'll ever stop thinking about this game.
@@macvadda2318 i mean yeah sure if you fully strip away most of the fluff that is pretty much the general plot line but imo it’s even more about the complexity of grief and ptsd and violence in a post apocalyptic world 👍
@@steph3390 all those expect ptsd lead back to revenge, trauma in the game is used to explain the revenge, greif fuels revenge as well, nothing wrong with admitting the games overall theme is about the consequences of revenge
@@macvadda2318 I disagree actually. Whilst the games plot is revenge, the games story is about the effects of Ellie's grief. Kind of like how the first game's plot was a cure for humanity whilst the story was about the effects of Joel's grief. Revenge is the driving force that pushes the plot, but it is thwarted by the characters. Like how the first game the plot of getting a cure for humanity was thwarted by Joel's love for Ellie. Revenge is a theme, yes but it's not the central theme. It is about the effects of grief and how the identity of the self relates to the identity of others. The only way the cycle of grief, and by proxy the cycle of revenge is broken is through forgiveness. The ending of the game shows a flashback to Joel and Ellie's final conversation where she finally takes steps towards forgiving Joel. I just don't like how people say the game is only "revenge bad" because it is kinda reductive.
I ended up actually REALLY liking Abby. I thought she was a really great character. I wasn’t entirely onboard until the Scars out Lev and he asked if Abby wanted to ask him about it and she asked if he wanted her to. He tells her no and so she doesn’t. It made me realize that Abby isn’t a bad person. She didn’t kill Joel because she’s evil. She killed Joel because he took everything away from her. Like Joel. Joel becomes this hardened killer because her daughter was taken from him. This game definitely has some problems but I still loved what Naughty Dog was going for
To all characters in the games knowledge her dad was also the only person who could have made a cure... so not just abby’s life was affected by his death but essentially EVERYONE. Joel essentially committed a terrorist act by saving Ellie, dooming all of humanity to their knowledge.
Occasionally you come across a person who manages to speak the feeling in your head that you never managed to get out yourself. This has been one of those times. Thanks man. I feel like I can breathe again now.
@@jonmayes3262 They're not haters. This is a good game, but a terrible sequel. The gameplay and graphics are phenomenal but the story destroys the first game's story.
Lesturr it’s not understandable at all. Fandom is a disease that is rotting all media analysis . Everyone wants to pigeonhole other peoples stories . So entitled
I beat this game like 2 months ago and still can't stop thinking about it. It's far from perfect, but no other piece of media has made me think, feel and reflect as much as this game did. Truly an unforgettable experience that will forever hold a special place in my heart. Thank you for giving this incredible story the time and attention it deserved 🙌🏻
People are so used to the typical endings, where all the hero’s get a happy ending. This game truely grabs you and takes you on a roller coaster of emotions, there is no other game that has done that to me. I think people need to appreciate how immersive the game actually is compared to your typical AAA titles. Also, Imagine you only play as Ellie and find Abby just to kill her, pretty boring storyline right?....
Mark Stanisavljevic the thing is that most people don’t like emotionally taxing stories. I personally love them, because they really test your morals and beliefs, but it’s mostly an exhausting and uncomfortable experience, so I get why people didn’t like it. However, I believe people should experience these stories as they can make you grow a lot as a person. This game really changed me in terms of empathy and judgment and I appreciate it a ton
If done right then no. There are lot's of games that end of different tones, like shadow worrier ends on a sad end, L.A. Noire ends on a sad end, Alan Wake ends on a confused end, Dead space games end on a bad end, spec ops the line ends on bad endings, and taletale games the walking dead season 1. So saying that gamers would be angry and any but happy endings is a wrong notion to have. It depends on the games journey to that end, why does the walking dead season 1 work? Because the journey that gamers took to reach. Most gamers when they reached the LOU2 feel that they journey to that ending was not worth it, you can't say that they are wrong if you enjoyed it or you can say that you are wrong for enjoying it. What is wrong it calling people idiots or ungrateful for the endings, they used to they happy ending and when they didn't get it they are angry. Then let me ask you, why weren't people angry when the walking dead season 1 ending was sad? There are many games that can make people go through a roller coaster of emotions, like Valiant Hearts: The Great War did to me. But it also depends on how they make you go through the roller coaster, if they just kick you in to it and then hit you head with it a swell then it wouldn't be as great of a roller coaster ride. That was the most problem for people and not looking at each others arguments and only calling each other idiots will not solve anything.
@@seanwallcroft6272 It worked wonders for you but it didn't for me. People are different and some though the game did a terrible job of it, and some moments weren't as great. Or they just beat you constantly with emotions to the point it has an opposite effect on people. Valiant Hearts: The Great War is an emotional story but people loved that game, it just depends on how they tell that kind of story.
Saiegg no one denies that. TLOU1 is a simple, yet very touching story, so is the above mentioned Valiant Hearts. It’s just that some don’t have it in them to try and dig into these complex narratives, which is sad
I finished the game 2 days ago, It doesn’t deserve the hate its getting but I can see why alot of people hate it, Joel death shocked me. I loved the game.
I think it's all about perspective. We see Joel as a hero who saved Ellie, and we hate that he died, but from Abby's perspective, he's a piece of shit who killed her father and took away humanity's chance for a potential cure.
@@TheyWantMeGone69 you're right, people hate the fact that Joel died because they got to play as him in the previous game, others also say that his death was a disrespectful one, forgetting that in the lawless world of TLOU shit doesn't go how you want it to, I mean it was in this same world that a doctor who wanted to develop a cure for humanity got killed in. Joel definitely saw this coming, and I'm sure most of us did, just that when it happened, we weren't ready. Joel's actions were selfish, even Ellie said that his actions prevented her life from meaning something. Also, people say that the game forces you to like Abby, no it doesn't, it just gives you a chance to see It from her perspective, the same way the previous game gave you a chance to see it from Joel's perspective, letting you understand that Joel did all that he did because he lost his daughter. This game doesn't deserve all the hate, it's truly a masterpiece
Joel Death are the reason why people don't finished the story. People need to finished the story bruh.... imagine the cutscene is in chronicle order. People would have react goes different
if this game was a film, it would sweep the floor of the oscars winning all the awards, it's a truly masterpiece. i wish to see see more agressive writing like this from other game studios
I think there's also something really interesting about how Ellie saved Abby and Lev's life by seeking her out to kill her one last time. If Ellie stayed back at the farm, Abby and Lev would have been left hanging from that post to die some pretty miserable deaths. There's something really poetic about that
Well now that you framed it this way, ain't that familiar...Joel's originap mission was to delivery ellie for a cure but ending up saving her. Still rhymes with part 1 ending
Whether you like or dislike the "direction" and "choices" in the story - the fact that it CHALLENGES you as a player is what makes it so good. Games are too often one-note, simplistic affairs with uncomplicated characters. I absolutely LOVE that Naughty Dog swung for the fences here and made this such a unique experience. I think from a place of objectivity, it has to earn high marks on that alone. For real though- this is an EXCELLENT deconstruction of the story and a very well-argued opinion on the game's narrative. Well done, man :-D
There is a difference between deconstruction and subversion of expectations for the sake of shock value. If the story was executed better, I would be inclined to agree with you but seeing how rushed and messy it was handled, I think you're giving the writers WAY too much credit
Matt.Z The problem with calling it shock value is that it implies that’s the only thing of value it has. There’s so much more to it than that. What was messy about it, the story feels pretty tight to me.
Harpreet Mangat No, there isn’t anymore to it. The graphic are great.. Everything else has been done much better previously. This game helps justify insults that gaming is a juvenile medium and it pisses me off.
@Matt - Strong disagree. Nothing in this game really shocked me all, least of all Joel's death - that was inevitable as soon as the first game ended. If that surprised you, you weren't paying attention.
I wish more people would sit with their thoughts and feelings long enough to write an essay like you did before they just went online to just talk at people into joining their hive mind opinion of good or bad. Its been weeks now and I still see names who have jumped around repeating the same shallow words as if they think any form of art isn't subjective. I personally love this game but I can totally understand why others might not, but I can't give much respect to those that just jump on because its the cool new thing to hate, or because they aren't comfortable enough stewing in a story with so much negative atmosphere long enough to understand the message to get why their rejection is part of the intended process. I've seen reviews where someone might talk for almost an hour saying how much they hated it but can't express in a clear reason why without just saying "bad/lazy writing" and sifting the blame off themselves. In any case, it is a story that is so heavy and hard to not think about even a week after I've beaten it, that I still had to look around to see how others are digesting it. I remember day 1, within 12 hrs of release, metacritic had like 20,000 negative reviews. I don't need to point out how that would happen with a 30~ hr game or how half of them liked to focus on bigot ideals. I knew it would just take sometime before someone who knew how to process their words came out. New here btw. This was a good perspective from someone who clearly knows something about how stories are told in various ways.
As a whole the premise was alright, but the execution and details not great. Joels death was out of character as he was uncharacteristically naive to her and the group, which people are annoyed about. Being forced to play as Abby (post murder) annoyed people, and the fact it went on for 10+ hours doubly annoyed people. Fighting against Ellie (who we all love) straight up pissed most of us off. Add in the fact that the serefites and WLF war seems pointless, and the lack of respect to the infected (teenagers just do patrol rounds taking out clickers like tying a shoelace), add in transgender kid (because it is on trend today)... I feel the characters, the harsh survival aspects of the game, and the players connection to all of it (established in game 1) were not given enough respect.
@@debuthunter5389 Joel's death is "uncharacteristic." This point has been used so much and I've explained it time and time again. So I'm going to try a different approach because I've noticed a common theme when it's brought up. Do you think you could explain the scene and how Joel's death played out from beginning to end?
@@debuthunter5389 yah none of this speaks to it actually being a bad game, more personal or strange issues you have that apparently made it unenjoyable for you
This game is about emotion, not rationality. The world we live in operates on rationality. I think that's why a lot of people don't understand it, because you need compassion to get it. One of the biggest critiques is that people still don't like abby after hours of gameplay. You don't have to like her, you just have to understand how she lives and lived. It's you know, the grey zone. @Nathan Zed: I love your video. I always come back to it and I have watched it so many times. You capture the heart of this story so beautifully. Thank you so much.
Lol, No. It's because we have compassion that we don't like Abby or even Ellie after a point in this game. You're looking for empathy, my friend. And, naughty dog foolishly tries to force feed you empathy for a character they just made you dislike.
I agree! Always thought that The Last of Us was more of an emotional story than a rational one. How Joel could have rationally gave Ellie up for the sake of the world but didn't because he couldn't deal with a death of another daughter. That's purely an emotional motivation. I feel that's the same case as Ellie giving everything up from her life to chase after Abby, but only to pull back at the last second of trying to kill her and eventually spared her. Logically, she should have killed her, she was on the verge of it. But she pulled back when she was reminded of her last talk with Joel about learning how to forgive. Purely emotional. There's not much logic in their actions, sure, but it made sense emotionally. And that's amazing character writing, in my opinion. Especially in this type of genre.
@@elijahkisamo5768 The idea of art forcing something on you is the most misused sentiment in "criticism". I don't think you understand what that criticism even means.
謎思特異 you should explain why Its unacceptable. A lot of these people who apparently know about “good writing” almost never gives valid arguments which makes their opinions shallow and has no weight to it.
i've never played TLOU but i loved every second of this video. just thinking how these characters got closure despite how much they have suffered makes my eyes teary eyed
What closure? Ellie loses everyone. Doesn’t get revenge. Tommy loses everyone. Doesn’t get revenge. Joel dies. Needlessly. Dina loses Ellie. Jessie dies. Even the antagonist Abby loses everyone except for Lev who she’s known for 2 mins. Literally what game were some of you playing. Ellie can’t even play guitar anymore for god sake. How is any of this closure?
@@cuppedcup By all means enjoy what you want, but I don't see how you can say any of the characters got closure. That is literally the last thing this game gave us lol
@@BourbonJRA maybe closure isn't the right word for what i was trying to say (sorry, english isn't my first language). i meant that they finally can start to move on from their losses. even though they'll never be able to forget what happened, at least they found better ways to cope (as nathan said)
Agreed. I think it has to be number 1 purely because of how much I thought about it. Having said that, Ellie deciding last minute not to kill Abby is cliche trite and they wasted the opportunity to have Abby and Ellie witness each others impact on the world throughout the game. Still highly underrated.
@@heartbeatbillionaire Damn spoiler much for the rest of the folks, but fair points. I'm also surprised how much this game ahs been on my mind. Amazing!
@Chad bad she didn’t, Lev did that. Asian Atreus, i would say Abby had a God of War not a Last of Us. Abby wanted and was relishing killing a pregnant woman and her unborn child... No hesitation. No remorse.
I agree 100%, people need to understand this is not an uncharted game where we get inside a mess, with fix it an save everybody again and again. This a cruel world inside the game. Also Revenge is a never ending cycle that keeps on going and kills everybody around it, it may be physically and spiritually.
You've not really said anything new or countered what people say about this game. Everyone understands what you said. Nobody said the game had to be all sunshine and rainbows and everybody lives...notbone person has said that. Its the WAY by which stuff happens that sucks. Doesnt make sense. And leaves you feeling empty because of poor character and story writing. Literally everyone knows revenge makes others want revenge on you, its been done a million times and was done very poorly in this game
this game lacks fully developed characters (owen, mel, nora, jesse, manny and dina) these characters are either pregnant or they make jokes a few times or they like there dog or they have absolutely nothing to them. Abby had the potential to be a very good character I actually thought her background makes sense but they introduced her backstory after 12 hours into the game. She remained cartoonishly evil for the first 12 hours of the game they should've introduced her at the very beginning to make her sympathatic instead of making her unlikeable. And her whole arc is a mess there's flashback within flashback then the story progresses forward then another flashback flashback. Because of these unorganized flashbacks you don't know what abby actually wants does she want joel dead or does she want to save her bf or does she want to save some random kid I don't know because its hard to keep up. And the whole going around for an hour to search for medicine is one of the most tedious and boring chores i have ever played just for yara to die in the end in a very stupid way then what's the fucking point. And the ending just boils down to revenge is bad and revenge ruined everything, this concept has been explored in literature for literally 600 years and doesnt perfect this concept due to shallow characters and poor pacing why is this concept necessary its already been done before in movies books games TV shows and more. But hey if you like it, knock yourself out
@@02sideshow Oh, tell me about it. It's like nuance can't even exist in video games now. Glad some people are willing to overlook it's faults and enjoy the game though. That's what video games are for. Enjoyment.
@@jessegallegos-king5113 yeah the crazy part is ppl trash on the game but haven’t even played to get the feel and have their own perspective they just gotta follow other ppls
Everything you said is exactly it. That is pecisely correct. It is exactly the point this game was trying to make. A perfect breakdown you have done in a very level-headed view. Possibly the mos intelligent analysis of a piece of media I've seen
Loved the video, honestly would love to see you make more vids like this because it was so insightful and well thought-out. Why you gotta remind me about GoT season 8 tho
Man... great analysis. I enjoyed the route they went with this game. I wish Abby’s story was a little shorter cause I enjoyed playing as Ellie more, but overall man the experience was great. Def an unforgettable game for sure!
MaybeNextTime People hated on the game before it even came out, it kindve shows you just how close minded people came into the game before even giving it a try. The point of playing as abby was that she’s not some psychotic killer you think she is from your first impression, but just another flawed human being getting by. You don’t have to like her, or emphasize for her, but it’s not hard to understand her.
@MaybeNextTime 'They did not give me a fan service type game and I had to do things I was uncomfortable with therefore it is a bad game.' You basically rushed head first to the point but faceplanted in front it. You're supposed to be uncomfortable with the actions characters take, that's the driving force of the story. You're supposed to question their reasoning just like we did with Joel at the end of part 1. I personally did not like Joel's decision in part 1 but you don't see me asking for a remake of part 1 or calling it shitty writing. Characters doing actions youre uncomfortable with does not make it bad storytelling.
@MaybeNextTime you might not personally like how they make you fight ellie as abby but it's already obvious they wouldnt let you kill ellie and you fighting against the charactor you love that just speaks volumes I thought it was really cool but ya I guess that's you opinion and I respect that
@MaybeNextTime you need to widen your perspectives, writers should not care about favourites. Writers write to tell compelling stories within thier universes. We see Hollywood put so much plot armour on character and force happy endings with "heroes". This game is so refreshing and different. It's not saying "you have to like Abby", it's saying "this is this character, this is her story, we don't care if you love or hate her, she's a character in this universe that's tied to main character events and becomes a main character herself."
maybe it‘s because I‘m an author myself and I understood the point of the storytelling from th get go - BUT I loved this game so much, even after my first playthrough. It left me not satisfied… yet I knew that was the entire point of it. It left me questioning humanity, my own decisions and our generation… past generations… it is so much more than just a game and I have mad respect for people who understand that, and those who created it.
I started out hating Abby but at the end I was crying because I thought she was going to die. The game was showing us how both of them did the same thing and it wasn't evil vs good, it was gray vs gray. 2 people who made good and bad decisions both struggling with letting it go and moving on instead of trying to cope with revenge.
Yea, you kinda felt a bit bad for Abby how she was hanging from that post looking all different scrawny and really sad..and when she said help me, and Ellie cut her down, first thing she did was get Lev down out of love for her. She looked so sad weak hopeless and left with almost no life in her, but her focused was saving Levs life, you kinda feel sympathetic towards her ....still HATE having to play her for almost more than half the game though, but what I didn’t thought was possible was possible at that ending scene with her sad self. So, bravo for kinda allowing me to feeling some form of compassion toward Abby naughty dog..
The people that don’t like the game are failing to understand what it’s about... There are no heroes in a world completely desolated. It’s perfectly harrowing and melancholic. It’s unfortunate people are incapable at looking past Joel’s death and playing as the perceived villain... It’s a game about the weight of violence and the trauma of losing someone you love.
Jack Osborne I hate how overhated this game is. They can make fun of those who do like it but it’s such a good story told not so well. They only hate the game cause Joel got done dirty:
this is the best video on TLOU2 that I've seen. Honestly it made me frustrated seeing so much hate for this game. It isn't perfect but it's so well crafted and the story contains so much nuance and I think that is lost on people.
The reason why people dislike it is because they had hopes, maybe High Hopes for the game which didn't live up to the Expectations. it wasn't a small disappointment to them it was pretty huge after all the first game was agreed by all to be the best game of the year.
Some people are just meme loving bandwagoning trolls who never touched it, and some people just don’t get how amazing the writing and story telling is and how deep it goes into depth and morality. It was a 10/10 for me
@@madmank7881 It IS agreed by all that TLOU2 is the best game of the year. It is now, in fact, the most awarded game in history. The only reason the hate for the first game was so quiet is because TLOU was actually very niche and it was only after everyone who actually played and reviewed it raved about it that it started gaining popularity. The people who loved TLOU1 because they were told to are the same people who hate TLOU2 because they were told to. The difference between TLOU1 and TLOU2 is that TLOU2 already had an enormous hate campaign that started LONG before the leaks happened and LONG before Part II was even announced. This is the same hate campaign that started as far back as Left Behind when Ellie was revealed to be gay. You'll notice that the vast majority of people who hate TLOU2 also seem to hate Left Behind and there's a reason for that. People like The Quartering, Geeks + Gamers, Tyrone Magnus, etc. who are some of the most toxic, disgusting people on this platform are the ones who spread this hateful garbage. If you are someone who hates TLOU2 and are genuinely not a homophobe/transphobe/racist, etc, you should be wary and cautious of your peers because the vast majority of them genuinely are. The hate for TLOU2 is entirely politically motivated and every youtube channel I've seen that has tried to justify their disgusting beliefs by saying a bunch of random bullshit (clear evidence that they don't understand wtf they're talking about and probably haven't even played the game) stumbles over their words and PURPOSEFULLY misinterprets the game's intentions in order to spread misinformation.
@@TheOutsider69 My dude the game is definitely not as loved as you make it out to be I can agree that it is a decent movie game, with good gameplay and graphics what people don't like is the story that's why it gets a 7.5 out of 10 because the story is a large amount of the game as it's a movie game.
@@madmank7881 The main reason most people hate it is because of the mindless hate the leaks got. The thousands of impotent manbabies on youtube who threw a fit about a game they hadn't played caused people to hate it, because of the sheep mentality that the internet causes.
The comment you mention, that "Last of Us Part 1 ends hopeful on the surface, but with misery underneath. Last of Us Part 2 ends with misery on the surface, but hopeful underneath", is just spot on. Imma keep that one in the back of my mind.
great analysis, I think people that hate this game cannot comprehend the narrative complexity of this game or were just too shocked by Joel's death that they stopped thinking altogether.
Well that and the fact the story telling happens because the characters wanted to do it unlike the first one where the characters was put in a situation where they had no control over.
@@scoutalejan8259 that’s just a you thing. If you can’t get over it it’s ok. But looking at all characters fairly and trying to be unbiased wether you like them or not is the only real way to get it completely
@@scoutalejan8259 I’m a huge last of us 2 fan, and I can say with 100% certainty that Abby was the most likable character and part of the game for me. Joel had his death coming. He murdered many innocent people, and destroyed the only chances of saving humanity by murdering Abby’s father, who could have made the vaccine. He lied to Ellie for years about what happened and destroyed there relationship, because he was too selfish to just tell her the truth. Ellie was also awful to Joel, pushing him away for years, and his death started her entire revenge arch, when she was consumed by guilt after his death, and she slowly loses herself, abandoned Dina and her family, all to hunt for Abby in a bloodthirsty rage. Abby didn’t even want to fight Ellie anymore. Ellie could only beat abby when she was starved and in agony. Abby spared Ellie many times, and at the end of the game, you realize all of ten characters are equal, but Abby is the most likable one, abandoning everything to do what’s right to protect lev, not even wanting to fight Ellie anymore. Abby is a beautiful character. She’s definitely more likeable then Joel and Ellie in my opinion. Ellie is immature and loses herself, Joel is selfish and had it coming. Abby did terrible things, but she did them for the right reasons, unlike Joel and Ellie.
I have watched about 30 different analysis videos to see everyone’s perspective. And yours is by far the best one. Wow! You made me say “oooooo” so many times!
I wanted to beat the game before watching this and man this is the most concise and best analysis of the game I've seen. I loved how you analyzed each character especially Abby and Tommy. I like the miserable ending with hope underneath, especially with Ellie now wearing Dina's wrist band!
I am certain a whole lot of the people disliking the game didn't even finish it before going online and sucking up all the hate/criticism, taking themselves the chance to experience it on their own and make up their own opinion about it
NightTimer you’re most definitely right. I’m so glad I wasn’t spoiled on the ending and all the little moments. I wish I could experience it all again for the first time
I think one of the main themes of TLOU Part 2 is that there’s no Winners or Losers. Even the person playing loses. Joel loses his life, Ellie loses literally everything, Abby loses all of her friends, tommy gets crippled and loses his wife, Jesse dies, Dina loses her gf and adoptive mother of her son, etc, etc. nobody wins!!!!!
I agree and that’s why when I see comments saying “the game is a masterpiece because it’s like real life, you just don’t get it” kind of annoys me because life it’s not like that either. Many people suffer of course but many people are also happy. We don’t get to see that “happy” until the end and after that we and Ellie loses it so it’s way too tragic for people defending it saying it’s like real life.
@@santiagoarauz1580 I think people say this game represents real life as cruel as it can be, obviously not for everyone, but it's different from the majority of the pieces of entertainment that usually have a happy ending. Life can be happy for lots of people, but it can also be as cruel as it is in tlou for lots of other people
joaovitor Cruz yeah I can agree there. This game is a tragedy which it’s fine if you like that as an audience but saying it’s like real life it’s just absurd. The first game had many of both sides, part 2 was only misery. The people using that as a defense is what’s annoys me lol not the fact that the game could be considered a tragedy.
Dina doesn't lose Ellie when she leaves for California if you look at her arm she doesn't have the bracelet Dina gave her in Seattle but when she goes back to the farmhouse on her right arm the bracelet is back on her arm
Ding ding ding you just defined every zombie narrative that try’s to deliver a message. Last of us is a zombie narrative. Most movies examine the human conditions and zombie narrative take it to the next level. The first game showed the grey area in a lot of people. but so many thought Joel was justified in in actions. But that’s why this sequel works. It’s really challenges you perspective.
The Last of Us has been my ultimate favorite video game. The Last of Us 2 is the first time I considered sharing that. This is the most brutal game I've experienced and I love it.
The last flashback of Joel is the most bittersweet and telling information of Ellie's drive this whole time. This game is punishing but rewarding. I loved the heartbreak of fighting myself while urging both of my characters to put down my guns
You literally nailed this perfectly. I can’t even begin to find the words to explain how perfect this analysis is. People really sheep out here shitting on this game. And I like how you called out the people comparing this to the nightmare that was season 8 of game of thrones. TLOU2 doesn’t even come close to how bad that was
I think people some do have geniune critisizms of the game, but if anyone gives this game less than a 6, its a clear indication they havent played it..
@@milorexhar6621 Or that they are being completely disingenuous. I've seen reviews on metacritic that concede that the game in itself has great aspects, with its visuals, gameplay and everything, but still give it a 0/10 no matter what, because they personally didn't like the story. Giving this game anything less than a 6 is simply being dishonest and not trying to criticize it objectively.
@@milorexhar6621 or that they have a different opinion than you. It's amazing how you TLOU2 shills can't accept differences in opinion, you treat people with a different opinion than you as idiots who "just don't understand" this assinine and hackneyed story, or haters. Textbook fanboys. The way TLOU2 defenders act is just like Rick and Morty fans.
@@flecks_piano because the story is literally everything in this series and the only reason people play it, the gameplay is bland and boring schlock that improves on almost nothing from 7 years ago.
Dude, so its all Joel's fault? Clearly this dude has no idea what is the point of bieng father. Ellie's life would have mattered? She didnt knew she was going to die, it was not her concent
Damn, this game man. There will never be another one like it, ever. Its the perfect wakeup call for anyone thats on a destructive road. My favorite game of all time. Maybe my favorite story of all time and that includes books and movies too.
Bruh it’s a game about zombies, a game where hundreds of people die like it really isn’t that deep and if you think this is deep then you should go check out other games movies and tv shows because they show the same themes
@@terryliamakeros4552 what theme is that 😂and point out to me a few shows and movies that display these exact themes. Cause you know I’d love to watch them
@@jebidiaschatman3997 the themes of violence, perspective, two sides to every story, loss, forgiveness, cycles of violence they’ve all been done before. There are plenty of movies about war or about violence that display these themes.the walking dead made its living off of these themes and again like I said people die by the hundreds, it’s a zombie apocalypse who in today’s world can relate to those situations.The idea of forgiveness has been done in metal gear solid and in shadow of the collosues and other games that I’m sure people who are older than me can name
What?? Someone really understood the narrative of the game? I am pleasantly surprised. Great that a few people can think beyond first bias or emotions that come up. Agree with your points made. I thought alike after the game was done. But the point with Abby's dreams and how it turns out and she wakes up easy the last time I did not notice until now. Nice observation.
@@arunkeshavadas7171 True. This game was going for something else but feel face first. It was trying so hard to be tragic and conflicting but instead I felt either apathetic to what is happening and unengaged or I just felt manipulated to feel a certain way based on the direction of the game. As a result, it leads to a bad experience unlike the first does the same effect better in a gradual way.
@Arun Keshavadas With the way Abby’s character’s portrayed you don’t have to end up liking her. But just like every other character in TLOU universe, you can come to understand her (the whole point of playing 12 hrs as her). The game is only showing you the other side to the conflict. If you view it that way, it won’t feel emotionally manipulative. As for Joel, it would’ve felt good to have him around longer but ultimately his character arc was complete after he regained back his humanity with Ellie.
Both Ellie and Abby became who they hated. Ellie became obsessed with revenge which led to PTSD (like Abbys nightmares) while Abby became protective towards Lev like Joel did to Ellie.
It's a little different tho. You kill The Boss for a greater cause, she is going to die nevertheless for radiation, you are just giving her the battle she always wanted to fight. It's more like giving the right respect to this character: i wanted the boss to live fully her final moments. And remember that both are supersoldiers, Abby and Ellie are just two girls
It makes me so sad how badly this game was received and I completely agree with all the points you made. I loved the game. Can't stop thinking about it. I've literally watched so many people play it and I'm still not bored yet.
Many people like the game. Majority who’ve played it love it. Unfortunately, those who hate it are the loudest at the moment. This is by design, though.
@@major4211 trust me man, outside America the situation is very very different. They make a lot of noyse, but they are still about 45% of the comunity, not ALL the comunity.
@Harry Paul if you truly think that about the game, then everything it was trying to show you flew over your head. I am truly glad I don't look at media in the same depressing way you do.
I watched jacksepticeye's playthrough from start to finish - I got extremely invested in the plot, and stressed myself out for hours thinking about the morality dilemma the game presents. Honestly Nathan, this video sums up everything I was thinking and MORE, in such a sophisticated way. Props to you!! I find it a bit baffling how many people refused to sympathise with Abby and still wanted her dead by the end, when, as you say in this video, she's been going through her own The Last of Us and we only hate her because we've been following Ellie and Joel's narrative. They're all just trying to find happiness, man. Honestly the only thing that saddened me about the ending was the fact that Ellie and Dina's love story was left unfinished; I've had to reassure myself that Ellie would have gone back to Jackson, reconciled with Dina and raised JJ with her lol. Great video Nathan! Love the way you explain things xx
dina really didn't seem to be the type to hold a grudge against ellie, and they clearly love each other but were in difficult circumstances. judging by how they were best friends before they became parents, i'm highly optimistic that they're back together (also i don't think i could take it if they weren't so headcanon i guess)
Wow, I have watched/listened to a lot of essays about this game, but none have captured my feelings about this game quite like you did. Hats off to you man, great video!
![What Makes A Man? A Study of Joel in The Last of Us Part 2 [cinematic discussion]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8tPWmSwuJXU/mqdefault.jpg)
Happy 1 year anniversary to one of the greatest games of all time and one of my favorite videos I ever posted 😁
Certainly one of my favorite games and it’s cool I share your opinions on the game. As you said the TLOU 1 is more straightforward than 2 as it’s actually more complicated to analyze if you don’t get the story beats with Abby. Oof I need to sleep I’ll finish another time. I enjoyed your vid btw if ya couldn’t tell 😔🤩😂
This video changing my point of view on the game .Really thanks (:
@@kinnyboy did you watch the vid?
@@phantom719 I’m currently watching it now lol, 7 min in. I typed that right when I clicked the vid
@@kinnyboy ok great 😌
I LOVE that you talked about Abby’s dream progression, i haven’t seen anyone else bring it up
Same 😱 I've been thinking about her dreams/nightmares so much and how it's kind of symbolic to what she's going through, but I haven't seen anyone else notice/mention it
because nobody gives a shit about abby
Huh
Same! It was something I loved seeing when playing the game and I was glad to see it getting some appreciation here
i actually never thought about that until this video diffidently a nice surprise
Joels coffee quote is so surreal. "Im a little embarrassed as to what I had to trade to get it, but its not bad" drawing a parallel btwn Ellie and what she had to trade to get her piece of mind. A perfect quote
Holy shit
Wow, never thought of that
Wait what did Ellie trade to get her piece of mind? Her fingers? Sitting the guitar upright? Deciding to let Abby live?
@@flareboy166 yes
Or you could think of it as what he had to do in order to save her.
I also noticed Abby start to second guess herself quite a bit after she did kill Joel. She didn't regret killing him, but I got the feeling she was troubled by Ellie pleading for Joel on the ground... it reminded her of herself.
She says she needed to "lighten the load" when she helped the two Scar "kids" - even asks Owen "what happened to us?" and he responds "Maybe we stopped looking for the light". They just became a part of the WLF, Abby got obsessed with killing Joel, Owen started killing scars mindlessly for goals that weren't his own... until that one guy who he just couldn't mindlessly kill as an "enemy".
I really do think that the game is a fantastic inspection of how we all have our perspectives that determine heavily how we see things. Every faction thinks when they "blow up checkpoints" (actual reference in the game to what Fireflies did), then "it's different" from when others do it. Because they know their own cause and own reasons, own "good goals" and their justifications for those actions.
So yes, thank you for this fantastic video. The constant hate was quite a bummer to see. Not that I'm not ok with people disliking something I like.. I AM. But there was(still is) a huge trending hate train and largely even from people who didn't give the game a chance - only read the bulletpoints and decided it sucks. Or people who played it on stream, making jokes, laughing around, distracted with their audiences or friends... I mean, it's "all good", but saw so many people *entirely* miss all of those things that happen in the game that are *NOT SPELLED OUT TO YOU* ... like how Abby wakes up distressed that you can only see from her facial expressions.
Or how we only later on realize that when Elly is hearing Nora out before she kills her, she isn't beating the info out of her what Joel did... but instead she already KNEW what Joel had done.
But what she GOT was confirmation from Nora that what Joel did was the reason he was killed.. That realization that she had probably already had time to fear turns her own thoughts towards herself; She has been on a revenge mission for an event that was directly caused by Joel and kinda her own survival. That Joel's death... was largely Joel's responsibility; a consequence of what she had wanted to put behind them and forgive... and now she never would have the chance to. Which only fueled her hatred and anger - which we see in how Nora dies.
It really is a game, where if I had stopped playing in a moment when I'm VERY INTENDED to be feeling negative emotions - I would've missed out on the journey that the game is and would not have seen the big picture that ended up in me really digging it, to the point of also thinking about it for weeks. (AND also having written a huge textfile full of thoughts about I didn't publish to anywhere haha). One of the best games I've played at least in the amount of how much it made me truely feel and think.
Better stop writing or I'll also write a much longer essay. This is already too damn long.
I'll still add the first "thing" in my little "essay" I wrote to my text file after having played the game;
"I expected Joel might not live through the game... but when it happened, I wasn't ready.
I expected my father will die of his lung cancer... but when it happened, I wasn't ready.
It happened so much sooner than I thought it would. I thought that when it would happen, it'd be an end
that feels.. dignified or... complete. Like an ending. "Intended"... "Prepared for him".
"Deserving of him"..
But that wasn't the case in either.
This is why, despite being so shocked that I had to stop playing and go to sleep for the night to process what had just happened, I find the writing in Last of Us so good.
I feel it manages to avoid just telling pretty stories, filled with cliché's better than other game plots. Or at least manages to create the illusion of not being "purpose built just for a storyline".
We always expect an ending to our hero to be grand and worthy... just like I thought my father would get a dignified, fitting end - a deserving end for my hero. We surely expect even ourselves to get a textbook "ending" to our story we very much live in and piece to ourselves. But we likely won't get anything like that - no movie endings... life just doesn't play by those rules.
So while Joel's death was absolutely shocking, ugly, anger inducing... it *felt* like experiencing actual loss. It was more believable to me, than a longwinded buildup that we could predict from a mile away.
The way how this piece of fiction manages to make me feel so deeply is largely because of how believable it feels and a part of why I think this is rather a masterpiece than a failure by any means"
Now that is a great analysis
@@sarcasm-83 excellent analysis my guy! You've nailed exactly what I think ND was going for when they killed Joel.
She does become more complex. Lev and the seraphites introduce a lot of grey areas and deeper ideas. However,she can't allow herself to truly regret it lest she falls apart.
@@sarcasm-83 I would've been so pissed if Joel had died in some sort of "last stand/alamo" sacrifice, saving everyone he loves cliche. The unexpectedness and sheer brutality really hammered into me how Joel, in the end; was only human, and an imperfect one at that.
The biggest irony in the whole game is that Ellie sets out for the last time to kill Abby, but what she does is actually saving her and Lev's life because they would have died on that pole. So If Ellie never leaves the farm, Abby and Lev would be dead.
Yep. And that's only possible because Abby spared Ellie and Dina when she could have killed them! In the end it's mercy that pays dividends for both parties. Like Bilbo sparing Gollum going onto have ripple effects that save the world.
That just makes things way worse
That's not irony, that's stupidity
@@isaywhateveriwantandyougot7421 It's called good writing
@@danielshepard1449 Not in this universe, it isn't
That 'Hopeful on the surface but with misery underneath' is fuckin deep and part 2 'misery on the surface but hopefull underneath' is beautiful interpretation..
Here's the reddit comment he's referring to: www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/hikm9p/part_ii_does_not_betray_the_legacy_of_tlou_it/fwgzhvi/?context=3
Yeah almost poetic, scratch that I don’t know what I’m talking about, just wanted to sound cool
One thing I find interesting is how Abby breaking the cycle and letting Ellie live ultimately saves her. If not for Ellie going to get revenge. Abby and Lev would have died at the end of the game.
wow didnt even think about that...
Damn just like that time abby broke the cycle by sparing joel after joel and tommy saved abby from zombies... oh wait. But but but abby good and sympathetic and she broke the cycle of revenge by sparing ellie?
@@soham.banerjee noones good or bad dude. Did you not see the video?
Soham Banerjee Joel started the cycle.
@@soham.banerjee the point is that it doesn't matter until you can accept your loss and make peace with it. The game isn't about who started or ended what, or right or wrong.
This is exactly my thoughts about the game put in an intelligent and elaborate way. I don't think I could have said it better myself.
Yes, it’s nice to see someone else who felt the same way about the story and being skilled enough to lay it all down in a thoughtful manner.
You make an incredible point about the nightmares. In the first game every time you see Joel sleep he wakes up the exact same way Abby and Ellie do.
It’s actually so bad for Joel that Ellie even mentions how he mumbles in his sleep
@@upforanything5214 And that's exactly what Owen says to Abby at the start of Part 2, when you see her wake up from her nightmare for the first time.
Yeah it’s called ptsd
I’ve seen so many arguments for why the writing is terrible and other arguments for why it’s actually really well done... really shows how perspective can mean everything
Yeah, at the end of the day it's just personal opinion. I personally dislike the story but like the gameplay
I played the game and i was lucky to avoid spoilers to the point that i actually did not know what was spoiled. I think this is a game is gonna age better than the first one (not saying TLOU 1 is dated) because most issues people have with the game, the only good arguments i actually heard against the story are ones regarding the pacing and how some of the scenes should have been restructured. A lot of the discussion is actually around Joel and how he died unceremoniously like a dog which no doubt was the fitting and deserving end in the last of us world. Human Dignity is not something we can preserve throgh hate and pain and that is the point of the story.
@@marawantarek1951 the fact that people are mad because Joel didn't died like a hero makes me roll my eyes so hard they get stuck back there for a moment.
@@athoswolff776 yeah, but I had issues on how his death was executed.
I understand the game was trying to depict the dark world of the last of us and start the plot but ...
The way Joel death was executed just didn't really make sense. Tommy and Joel characters that were so well developed through the 1st game seemed to be nothing like in that scene. Joel wasn't the type of guy to freely help some random person and we see him in the 1st game where he was able to convince Tommy to follow the same path when they past by some strangers in the intro of the 1st last of us.
Okay, but what if their characater's changed throughout the five years? It could happen but that has to be shown to give some context for the audience. Now killing main characters are fine, it adds to the realism but it needs to make sense or at least be a believable. Game of thrones, the red wedding is a great example; Main characters die but it's believable to the audience and makes sense.
@@athoswolff776 But I can understand why people would prefer Joel dying as a hero instead of a golf club.
The last of us 1 focused a lot on the character development and relationship between Joel and Ellie so much where most of the audience was able bond and love these characters. By letting Joel die in a heroic way, that could help complete his character arc that is still satisfying in a way for fans, instead of something that feels slighlty rushed to subvert expectations and shock fans.
Joel does sacrifice himself for Ellie. He killed the doctor to save her life in the hospital, it just took 4 years for the sacrifice to catch up with him.
Damn
Thats deep af
@Grailer and while Joel may have come to depend on their relationship for closure in his own life. The fireflies didn't give him a choice, they wouldn't at least let her wake up so she could make the decision herself which is stupid, like why was there such a rush. And in fairness the doctor is misguided. Even if this vaccine did work, there's no way to distribute it meaningfully, it'll be another commodity. In other words one more thing that will be traded, raided, or killed for.
PandaBean big agree. not to mention they’re sacrificing so much valuable study that could be done if they merely kept her alive to perform tests, brain scans, collect blood/tissue samples; there is so much information to be gleaned from a living subject and even if, in the end, there was no other choice but to cut into her brain, the least they could’ve done is say “we’ve done all that we can do, let’s take the next step” and ask for ellie’s consent first
@Grailer well you know how retconning goes. I also remembered the doctor differently in the first. And for a supposed medical professional, he thinks kill an immune test subject first before running tests. Like again, this is a *chance* operation. He can't guarantee that he'd be any closer to knowing a vaccine, let alone a cure (which by the way, there's no cure or way of fighting a fungal infection like this. We create vaccines to fight viruses not fungus. So from that viewpoint it's even more pointless to kill Ellie.)
Just more importantly, the issue with this is that they choice the wrong focus, I could understand this revenge line if it was instead for killing Marlene leader of the fireflies, instead of this half-cocked doctor that makes very poor medical decisions and frankly is kinda a poor basis to build off of in the first place. You see regarding what we know about medicine and what i said earlier these clearly aren't concepts the game understands because it never set out to answer them in the first place, so coming back 7 years later to feel compassion for this doctor making a rushed call like this is just a bad call.
What the focus should have been on was ending the Fireflies, this mixed group of radical individuals who have banded together under solidarity and a belief in the future. Because Joel ended them that day and that would have been way more interesting angle to come at this story from.
Remember everyone there to kill Joel. Why are they there? Oh yeah to help Abby. Not because they personally care. Even Owen says I want what you want, implying he didn't really give a shit if Joel died or not. None of them were invested in this. I mean they've only heard about how shit Joel is from Abby, they have no personal investment besides the ex-fireflies who again don't give a shit about Abby's dad. No one cares about Abby's dad. But everyone would have cared about Marlene, their Queen. The mother figure who took them in and made them feel like family. This game wants to have so much to talk about with deep personal relationships and yet only a select few act out of it.
Doing Abby a favor should not be the motive for the majority of Abby's crew. Make them more invested in why they would ALL want to chase Joel down. Even this dumbass pregnant chick who's trying to get her baby killed while on the front lines.
The fight against Ellie was legitimately terrifying. Her AI is perceptive, fast, heavily armed, and meant to emulate the player in combat.
And at the same time you’re dealing with having to hurt a character you love so dearly! I had to keep pausing and putting my controller down, I was getting nauseous and dizzy from the guilt of hunting Ellie down
Not to mention the shock of thinking Tommy just died. I love how the battle with Ellie feels like the fight with David from the first game.
Idk man, to me at least this was the worst part of the game. I was so disengaged with what they were trying to with the story that I didn't really care about actually beating Ellie. I just wanted to get it over with so I could see where they were going next. That's just me tho
@@samuelhawes6735 Well, you kinda ruined it for yourself then
Yeah I legitimately had fun and didn't want to kill her at the same time haha
I think if abby was murdered by ellie, the kid Abby saved would just continue the cycle because that kid lost a lot too....
crazy ain't it
I just hate that Ellie has no remorse killing everybody else even if they did nothing wrong to her but she does have a problem with killing the woman that killed her 'father'
@@michiel1162 I think she does feel remorse killing Mel when she finds out she’s pregnant. I loved this game but there are some issues I have with it.
@@EJD339 the gameplay was fking awesome, and most of the story holds up. I have to say killing off Joel and then letting you play like Abby was very balsy. but it's just kind of a missed opportunity for me. Imagine we really started to fall in love with the character of Abby after she killed Joel. So the player has this feeling of grief twice, when abby kills joel and when Ellie kills abby. So the character you hated is now the character you cry for.
@@michiel1162 She did not want to kill Mel and Owen and felt so bad about killing Mel, a pregnant woman, that she broke down and wanted to go home over continuing to find Abby. She also came back to the museum with shaking hands after torturing Nora for information, signifying that it did take a toll on her.
Edit: there's another top comment thread that goes i to more depth about how Nora was the first person she killed without it being self defense and that it made her start questioning if what she was doing was actually justified and worth putting pregnant Dinah in danger.
@@Dlord1PlayStation she killed since childhood tho, remember when she blasted a dude who tried to drown Joel in the first one. Kind of nonsensical arguments but i respect the time you put into it
I see the theme of obsession leading to destruction all through out this game. Kinda like the obsession of some of the fans being so immense, it destroyed their ability to see the game in another light, or even enjoy it.
Nice
Well when you waited 7 years and a game kills of a loved character like that, all you want is revenge. Ellies story was okay, average. But abby's story was just sooo anoying. I didn't like playing as her. I killed her sooo many times on purpose because I hated playong as her. And if you think about it. It was abby's side who started all of this. Not joel. Het father wanted to kill ellie and joel prevented it. If my father is trying to kill a child and the childs father kills my father, I would get it. And I actually would think he did what had to be done.
someone from the Netherlands I feel like it’s really hard to say you’d get it and be chill with someone killing your dad, when he’s trying to do what he thinks is right, when it hasn’t happened
AngryJoe review says it best, objectively. It's a 6/10. Dog shit writing, pacing and overall plot. Plenty of plot armour etc. Gotta ask, if you hated Season 8 of GoT, you'll hate The Last of Us 2. Boring gameplay. Make it as pretty as you want, but polishing a turd doesn't make it not a turd.
well, i can see why so many player can and do enjoy it, but for me the sloppy written plot and stupid acting characters really kills the atmosphere :/
i just hate bad writing. i cant help it. i know there are a lot of great ideas in the game, but man, the storytelling is sooooooooooooo bad...
Update: 3 months later and I'm still thinking about this game every day.
There was so much more I got out of the game on my second and third play-through that I had to change the title of this video.
I didn't even get to talk about how they gave Ellie closure with her immunity.
Ellie's biggest issue with Joel's decision at the end of the first game is that he renders her immunity useless. Now she's just living her life, watching everyone die while knowing she's immune, but this time there's nothing she can do about it (unlike the first game where she thought she could be a cure).
BUT, by the end of the game, she realizes that she doesn't have to die for her life to matter.
When Ellie says "I should have died in that hospital, my life would have f***king mattered" and Joel tells her that he'd "do it all over again", She tells him that she is willing to forgive him.
The Ellie that walks off in the end of this game doesn't just have closure for Joel's death, but a realization that she can have a life outside of her immunity.
"Joel's decision took meaning from Ellie’s life, but through his death he was able to help her find it again"
Totally! I loved how all the flashbacks that she had is the entire mental process to reach that conclusion. That she deserves to be happy. I love your video. Everytime someone ask me why i loved this game i send the link of this video as a reply.
Interesting. I don’t agree with her getting closure, or her realization that she doesn’t have to die for her life to matter, or that Joel’s death somehow gave her meaning again. Those are all possibilities but I don’t think they are implied any more than the opposite is implied. I felt more that this game almost made it a point to NOT give clear implications. It didn’t give any answers, rather it provoked questions. I felt like it was a portrait or snapshot of the human experience, leaving the player to make their own inferences which are largely influenced by their own personal experiences and personalities. So it’s almost impossible for me to 100 percent agree with you. I personally have a much more nihilistic view of the events in the game. For example, I don’t believe Joel’s death helped anything, and that’s largely the point. Silver linings are often things of fiction, inaccurately portraying the lack of silver linings in reality, and to me, this game served as a reminder of that. Closure, meaning in life, our lives mattering - none of those are guaranteed.
I've watched every review like three times I can't stop thinking about it!!! Thank you for this
Dude what the hell?! How do you get those interpretations! Do you work with Neil? Your last sentence alone just makes the game a masterpiece lmao.
Currently on my 2nd play through and I love everything about this game. No other game has ever made think of the choices and the story that this game has accomplished. Most of the initial response of the game was the hate for the choices on story elements. But it sets up the big picture of the story on how these main characters have gone through similar events in their life and tells that these cannot find the closure that they are looking for. Only as the story progresses, you, as the player, experience each of their torment and daily struggle with themselves. How their quest for revenge has driven their closest friends and loved ones away.
This isn’t just a game. It’s an experience.
My hats off to your review!
I've seen around 20 reviews.. this is hands down the best. Also the end is not that bleak.
Read this comment on TH-cam somewhere.
"Crazy thing is....I truly believe Ellie did have a happy ending, we just missed the clues... another TH-camr commented on the letter you find at the farm when you are with Dina and the baby. It's from the baby's father's mom saying they will always have a place in Jackson if they choose to come back home. Also if you notice.....when Ellie leaves to fight Abby at the end....she's not wearing the bracelet Dina gave her....but when she returns...the camera zooms in on her hand ...we were focused on the fingers missing but looked completey passed the fact that now she is wearing the bracelet, possibly meaning she has already been to Jackson...and is living with Dina......she just went back to the farm for the guitar....but decided to leave it. That represents her finally being able to accept Joel's death and end the cycle of revenge.
Here's some more things to back this claim......
1. When she comes back to the farm...she's not hurt or not wearing any of her weapons.
2. She doesn't seem surprised that everyone is gone when she enters the house. She doesn't call out Dina's name or anything.
I think people were so caught up in "Revenge" that they missed all of these details.
Saw this comment as well, it is so cool this game has such details.
Instead of saying what is happening, they are showing this, sometimes in a subtle manner. And this is clearly the harder thing.
After beating the game I was like "wtf was that? In a good way, but still. And there were lots of monents which I considered as plot holes, but if you really pay attentions to symbols (just like with Abbie dreams), you will understand the motivation of a character. Thus, the story will unwrap.
i dont think she went back to jackson. jackson is towards the west(?) of the farm, towards the valley. the gate she went to is southward, same way she went when she went to kill abby .
@@sorenkair so wat are u implying then huh🤔
I don't think so. She's not carrying any weapons because it would have looked weird in the scene. For the same reason Joel and Ellie are not carrying any in the epilogue of the first game. She's not surprised Dina is gone because Dina told her that she's going away if Ellie leaves. Ellie probably wasn't wearing Dina's bracelet in the final chapter because Dina didn't want her to go so she just took if off as an act of some respect to her and put it on again when she was coming home. The way the guitar and the vinyl were set in the room clearly tells us that Dina left it this way for Ellie if she comes back.
Oooh nice. This was actually my observation too! Good to know someone else out there thought the same! :)
One hateful act begets another. But a selfless act, can also be contagious. - Dunkey
"Even New York is in some games."
- also Dunkey.
Fuck... that is such a good way to put it.
Dunkey is epic
- Gex
Dude this was excellent!! You took the words right out of my mouth - the point you made that I didn’t realise was how she let the spirit of her and Joel’s relationship live on in Abby and Lev. HOW DID I MISS THAT?? Man it makes so much sense...
Glad you got this out, excellent video essay. Hopefully Naughty Dog sees this!
I love all the people coming out and sharing their love for the game
It’s crazy to think that Tommy’s obsession saved Abby in the end . Without convincing Ellie to hunt for Abby again her and lev would have died in Santa Barbra . If he would have tried to let go and move on he would have gotten what he wanted at the end . I 100% agree with you on this review man . Naughty dog took a big risk with the plot and they know they did . It’s no means a 10/10 but in regards to how it made me feel I was emotionally drained by the end of the game . I hope this game ages like fine wine because on the surface I can see why people don’t like this game but I personally loved it and how different of a approach they took overall .
You’re spitting facts
Word. I really like that they took a risk, something quite rare in todays entertainment industry
Even crazier is to think that if Abby and Lev didn't spare Dina and Ellie in the theater, they would have died later in Santa Barbra so by saving them they saved themselves
I agreed. I love this game for the exact same reasons
Agreed, they were pretty ballsy with this game and I loved the ambition behind it. I dont regret buying/playing it, I feel it was well worth my time.
Bro I did not realize this was a whole 20 minutes until it was over. I don't know how you did it, but I didn't even check the length at ANY point in the video. Insane job man, genuinely a great watch (as someone who didn't know anything about TLOU before).
same wtf, the video is so good and his points are really good.
Bro as much as I appreciate this comment, why are you ruining the plot and story of 2 of the greatest games ever to be released before playing them...
Yo ive spoiled myself and thats caused me to be interested and learn everything from the beginning before so i get this on a spiritual level, but bro i highly highly reccomend giving the first game a try, even if its through a playthrough vid, the first 15 minutes was enough to hook me in and its one of the best story driven games ive ever gotten to experience 😤👌
It's sad that everybody was getting on a hate train without seeing a perspective like this, thankfull that someone said what ive been thinking the last weeks/months.
Its actually worrisome that people dont see it and bitch about it.
It re requires enough maturity to understand this game. Not everyone has that.
Well considering Druckmanns reaction to criticism towards the game was to dismiss the very idea that he may have made a bad game. And anybody who does criticize the game is just a hater. The hate is well deserved.
@@frenchfriedbagel7035 tbf the majority of people who publicly complained about it did only dislike it cause of personal likes or dislikes, nothing actually flawed with the game
@@ztlabraptor211 there’s a lot of flaws with the game. Namely in the actual structure of the story and how it kills all narrative momentum just to force you to play as the character you want to see dead for 10 hours.
Thank you. Best analysis really.
Tlou2: “Dissapoints me”
Me: I don’t think i can ever forgive you for that
“Watches this review”
Me: But i’d like to... try :’(
This made me crack up
i finished the game like 2 weeks ago and i still could not accept the whole thing. im one of those guys who hated the story and even gave a 1/10 on metacritic casue i was so damn friggin disappointed cause this is what i've been waiting for a very long time and when ellie says "im gonna find and im gonna kill, every. last. one of them." i was already ready to kill everyone, i was kinda prepared to have revenge big time and i was pumped as hell. this review kinda opens your eyes and yeah, your comment says it all. i'd like to try.
Funny; this is exactly how I feel now after watching this video and then replaying the game.
Norbert Prummer same, this guy opend my Eyes . I almost sold this game second day I got it. And thats why this should see everybody
Me: Dude, you are so done. I am gonna kill you.
Final boss: ...
Me: um, because, y-you're like, the boss? IDK, th-the final boss? you're DONE!!
At first when there is the switch half way through, I was angry when I figured out Itd be like that for a while, but then you get used to it, and it ends up being really profound for me. I also cried. A lot.
@Jamison higgs yeah the sex scene was more surprising than the RatKing. I hope with time people chill out and we get a DLC and a 3rd game. This game reminded me of The Grave of the Fireflies a film that I can say is one of the saddest I've ever seen and only recommend to people I hate so they can suffer as much as I did.
@@neoperol the sex scene was something I really disliked, it's explicitly took away from the emotions of the scene in my eyes
I really wish people understood the game as much as you, no matter if they liked it or not. What naughtydog did with this game was bold and unforgettable. Like no game I've ever experienced before.
@Purplehayes91 Seeing the amount of braindead people screaming the message is just: "revenge is bad" , seriously leaves me wondering if they understand the nuances of the story lol
@@arnojamsin7375 lol they don't fam, they never gave it a chance to begging with
@Purplehayes91
Doesn't seem like most people get it if all they're saying is it's just a "revenge is bad" story.
I agree with you, and literally at the end of the day, what matters is what the game did FOR YOU. It doesn't matter if a lot of people hated it or not, because you yourself matter and people tend to rely heavily on others and what they feel. Sometimes it can really be down to just you against the whole world. It still doesn't make the whole world right and your wrong, no. I agree with you though and everyone else who just doesn't get the game or liked it, I'm glad they don't. They don't deserve to in the 1st place :)
@Purplehayes91 I understand it perfectly, it just sucks lol
Honestly I hate when someone won’t play the game just cause the main character died like what a bunch of babies
How would this be unpopular? I love this breakdown.
It's unpopular because he liked the game.
@@harasnicole wait, no one likes the game?
@@neshaoinspopolk4417 it has a 95/100 from reviews but about a 5/10 from the general public. Seems like it's very split half and half with people either loving it or hating it
@@strangething7379 Oh! Lol 😂 opinions can fickle sometimes, apparently.
@@strangething7379 I didn't like the game but after this breakdown I think I'm ready to be hurt by this game.😅
probably won’t play this but yes i’ll sit here for 20 minutes listening to nathan ramble about it.
Same hahah
Basically
Litcherally me mate
Same. Shit's too bloody for me, so I never played the first one, but I appreciate the story so it was cool to hear him talking about it.
Trust me u should play it. The story is 6/10 and gameplay is 10/10. The first one was 6/10 gameplay and 10/10 story
the thing about the world of the last of us is it’s a miserable, dangerous, cruel world which makes the beautiful moments shine even brighter. i really liked that about this game, how despite circumstance there are still moments of goodness, of humanity. i think it’s intended to draw attention to beautiful moments in our own lives, in spite of how tragic life can be. there is always balance to be found, for where there is darkness, there is also light.
Yes!!!!❤️
Exactly.
reid james Exactly! It was always dark even in the DLC yet people seem to forget that because they have this heroic view of the main characters. Idk why they expected a honorable death for any characters just cuz they like them. Throughout Ellie’s search for revenge the only person on Abbys group that I felt bad for in terms of how they died is Nora but I expected nothing less from Ellie because of they dark aura around her rage
The first game had this and that's one of the main things that made it beautiful. The second had much fewer moments of hope and light
We´re still talking about the game right ?
Just finished it yesterday. And I needed some more closure to process it all. This video was perfect and just what I needed!
This is the best analysis/opinion I’ve heard.
Girlfriend gaming made another thoughtful analysis
@@kcsnipes she only talked about what naughty tried to do rather than how they executed it.
@@tituschhangte1217 Only because in her opinion the execution worked. The only reason she was able to give such an analysis is because she understood what the devs sought ought to do
@@isaactam5020 "sought ought to do"
Great video! This is such a tough game for a traditional review.
The game is about obsession. About how narrowing your focus, you'll miss everything you lose on the way.
it breaks every Shakespeare rule, it's gose against everything the first game built, it's like a religious cult trying to give you self guilt and preach urbanized morals.
@@jadedragon5541 that's a reach. Thematically, it's exactly what the first game built. Characters aren't themes in of themselves. You can kill a character, but not their influence on plot, themes or motivations.
@@jadedragon5541 lmao what morals does it preach? And what the fuck are "urbanized morals" exactly?
@@jadedragon5541 Also what the heck is a Shakespeare rule?? My dude the bard definitely didn't write a manual on how to write a story.
@@jadedragon5541 does it feel good talking out your ass?
I really want your analysis to go viral. You will change a lot of people’s perspective on this game in the best way possible.
I feel like a lot of people miss that Ellie and Abby are on the same path but going in opposite directions.
Abby kills Joel and is still torture but slowly is regaining her humanity after this incident. Meanwhile Ellie is mowing her way thru people hunting Abby chipping away at hers. Abby is going back to save people and Ellie is torturing that girl by the elevator for info on Abby. I really loved that juxtaposition to the story.
Great write up breh.
There's no redemption for any of them. Abby doesn't deserve sympathy neither does Ellie. Tommy didn't helped the situation either by going after Abby first.
"We all have different opinions, the problem starts when we feel our opinion is worth more than what anyone else can say", -Random quote i found on the internet
This quote is basically the fandom arguing with each other in a nutshell about this game
Welcome to the internet
So its an issue that the majority of people strongly agree that nazism is terrible? Some opinions are flat out more valid and logical than other stupid opinions.
@@BadGrief That's the thing opinions are not meant to be judged, doesn't matter if you find them illogical or not. Some idiots are so quick to judge me for liking this game, like I do judge you when you say you hate the game, so why can't you show me the same respect.
@@mryoung6090 so someone's opinion that diddling kids is fine is not meant to be judged? Saying opinions aren't meant to be judged is probably the most stupid thing anyone has ever said
One of the best, and most thoughtful, reviews of The Last of Us 2 that I've seen. While the switch from Ellie to Abby is jarring, I applaud ND for being ballsy enough to even attempt something of this scope in arguably their biggest franchise. In the end, fighting a withered, unrecognizable Abby, was just plain painful to endure. I am glad they both survived. While I didn't quite enjoy all my time with Abby, she turned out to be one of my favorite characters. 10 out of 10 for me.
Yeah... Me too...
Agree on the switch. I think it was really interesting and something that a lot of game companies wouldn't have had the guts to do. I like how you learn to empathise with Abby and even like her but while still being aware of who she is and what she's capable of. I felt genuinely upset seeing Abby up on that cross. She was in the middle of taking steps towards a new healthier, happier life with someone she loved and it was all taken away from her. I just hoped she was able to find peace and heal.
All I could think about during their fight was the two pikachus from the Pokemon movie slapping each other and it made me cry.
Watch girlfriend reviews video, it’s really good
Eriko. Oy “You guys are sociopaths for liking a character in a fiction series that I don’t wah wah”
damn dude, just the words i've been trying to get out while defending this game to the squeaky wheel. Thanks for this. Solidarity.
I’m trying not to worry about convincing others of how great of a game this truly is. I just don’t want that weight on my shoulders
@@NoahF57 facts man! No point of convincing others cuz they won’t give in. The most important thing is that u enjoyed it and that’s all the matters!!
This game sucked the story was just sad for being sad, even watching this review didnt changed my mind the defense and the analysis defending this game sounds forced
@@samueljosehenao8360 Don’t need ur negativity lol. People just like the game and nothing is forced. The story and the world of TLOU is just really deep and its really more than just a game!
@@samueljosehenao8360 lol, sure dude. You do you, that's cool. But lots of people, like millions of people LOVE this game. It's literally won Game of the year already from a few prestigious awards. It's super alright that it wasn't your thing, every one perceives differently and has different expectations, but it sure as hell wasn't a "bad" story, nor have positive reviews around it needed any "forcing".
this is the perfect explanation of why the last of us 2 isn't a bad game. Love this game and love that someone understands its story
th-cam.com/video/W1pA4mFLyvU/w-d-xo.html
You realize you can understand the story and also realize it’s huge flaws right? The story isn’t bad, just the way it was told was terrible. Fix the story structure and a few small writing decisions here and there and it would’be been so much better.
@@johnjoseph6874 can u explain what tge flaws were tho?
@@dylanculshaw6977 The terrible story structure, inconsistent character development and lack of buildup to certain events
I haven't busted into tears in a long time, all it took was going to Joel's house and looking at his watch, and just like that I wanted revenge, I hated everything.
But as I played more and more I sometimes felt like a wild goose chase.
Was it worth it?
Yes, a few days ago I told my dad I love him and we spent some quality time together. I forgived him over things he had done. I understood why he did them.
Everything is good now
Absoloute king, head up my friend
i sometimes wonder if those who appreciated it more can just relate on a personal level with having close parents. my father died when i was their age, the pain and heartache was unimaginable. when i see both ellie and abby's backstory it hit really hard, for both of them. i don't love the game but i def appreciated the depths they went to tell a unique story
@@cuppedcup thanks man, I appreciate it
@Toori Baba It's not that she didn't experience the repercussions, it's that their story's follow the same path but they are both at different points of the story. Abby has 4 yours of festering hatred. She pushed her femininity and close relations to the side so that she could turn herself in a person who could guarantee revenge. She was obsessed. After she got her revenge she notices that she doesn't feel relieved at all and feels guilty about what she has done. Later she is forced to deal with the fact that all her friends have died because of her obsession with revenge. Because of her guilt she found a new light and decided to cling onto it (Yara and Lev) like Joel did with Ellie. Ellie in a similar way was obsessed by the fact that Joel took away the meaning of her life. She couldn't let that go which damaged her relationship with the only person who she deeply cared about. After his death she knows that she didn't get the opportunity to make it right with him and she also know how much she meant to Joel leaving her with a lot of guilt which turns into anger towards Abby and her friends. On the way to revenge she loses much (her humanity, Jesse and Tommy will never be the same. She knows it's the cause of her actions). Now at this point if she had totally nothing the decision to continue revenge would be easy, so they had to show you the life Ellie could've had. The obsession weighs far more of you're willing to risk everything for it, instead of nothing. She desperately wants to stay, but because of the guilt she feels (also towards Tommy now) and her PTSD, going after Abby seems like the only choice for her to relieve her of her issues. While fighting Abby she realises that what she's doing now (killing for the person you loved) is the same as what Joel did for her. Making her able to forgive Joel, herself and Abby knowing it won't serve her any purpose. Also seeing the parallel of Joel and herself within Abby and Lev. At this point Ellie isn't broken anymore. She is definitely hurt, but hope exists. Just like Abby had to find her hope in Lev. Ellie has that same chance now.
On an ending note (pushing all the friends she lost and the loss of the life she had aside) Abby was also enslaved and tortured for a few months so she definitely was punished but it wasn't a direct effect of her revenge
That's actually amazing. Good luck in everything moving forward!
This man has to get viral. He would litterly open the eyes for a lot of people.
It wont do anything, people would just insult him and label him as a "shill".
Of course they will, but not all of them. And like i said, he would open the eyes for a lot of people.
@@codruzs from what ive seen, people dont want to hear one good word abt this game..
Well u are right and that is a shame, beucause i think this game is a masterpiece if u really understand the story and dont start crying because of the sad moments. I mean there are even people rageing, because u have to kill dogs.
@@milorexhar6621 their problem then
If you want society to treat games as art, start looking at them as such.
Games are art... and products. Nothing saying they can’t be both.
@@quiettimegaming3642 art is to be analyzed and discussed, not to be taken at pure face value. You have to understand the message and the themes, not everything has to be spelled out in your face. This is why i hate gamers
NO THEY NEED TO MAKE THE STORY WHAT I WANT ONLY NO KILL JOEL!! WAHH /s
@@ryz9045 LOL EXACTLY
how braindead can someone be to not EXPECT Joel to die in part 2?
it honestly amazes me how fucking stupid some people in the gaming community are
@Ευαγγελος Ζερβας εγω γενικοτερα ειμαι της αποψης οτι δεν θα επρεπε να βγει το παρτ 2
Το στορυ στο 1 αν και τελειωσε με αρκετες ερωτησεις που δεν ειχαν απαντηθει,θεωρω ηταν αυτο που εκανε το γκειμ τοσο ξεχωριστο
i literally hated Abby from the beginning. then after playing as her for a few hours i really grew to like her and understand her and i didnt want either of them to die. thank u for this video :)
I never liked her, but definitely hated her a lot less towards the end.
@@andrewcheng2113 No one is a good guy or there is no really good side in this story. They're just doing this for their survival and theirslevess.
Yeah same her part was just as good and tense as Ellie’s, I get she killed Joel and we all love him but realistically he was a horrible man and received his karma, his past finally caught up to him and he morally he got what he deserved. He literally slaughtered an entire hospital of doctors just trying to make a cure and vaccine to have hope to save humanity. They had families and friends. If I was in abby shoes, I’d probably do no different.
People dont need to like Abby, Ellie or wathever, SYMPATHY for the 2 points of view is necessary or you won't see how great the game is.
Still kinda hated her by the end.
Heavily underrated review of the game. Honestly feel like you deserve a couple more hundred thousand views on this one.
After I finished the game, I was left with the feeling that the game kinda missed the mark for me even though I personally enjoyed it. That it can't quite top the first game since I felt the pacing and length held it back quite a bit.
Watching your breakdown of the characters, story, etc (along with Girlfriend Reviews' fantastic analysis video) has allowed me to look back on the game in a different light and I now have a better appreciation for the risks that Naughty Dog has taken to bring this story to life.
With that, I am truly thankful you've made this enlightening video to help me see beyond my own perspective of the game. Cheers for that, dude~
The second playthrough was great for me. Picking up on all the subtext and symbolism I missed, able to enjoy the emotion of each moment without worrying about what was coming. It's so good.
I always liked the game, but sitting with it and talking to people about it has made it one of my faves
Like every one else , I loved the first TLOU and I was afraid I wasn’t going to like this one. But man was it good I can’t stop thinking about, it was absolutely not the story I wanted but after thinking and reflecting on it, it’s growing on me.
@@ahugegorilla1575 The story is definitely something that not everyone will like, but it's still a shame that so many people are quick to throw out terms like "bad writing" and "pandering" to justify their dislike rather than try to find another perspective to understand the story.
@@ashscar8878 Agreed. Its cool if its not for you, but my personal annoying thing is when people call the game lazy.
felt like i was going crazy when i looked thru the internet as i played and enjoyed the game
no need to.
i personally dont like the story of this game, but i can see why so many players enjoyed it.
it has some really good ideas, but it also has some great weaknesses.
but if you think its a 10/10 its fine.
its your opinion, even if more objectively reviews give the game a 5-7/10.
and i think thats very fair.
@@Habertod "even if more objectively reviews give the game a 5-7/10."
LOL... Objective reviews... Technically is a 10/10 game. No other game has so much work on it. The only contrived point is the story, wich can be bad for some (and I understand why), and superb for others (like me, just to give an example).
Some people like scorsese, some people like Quentin Tarantino...
@@sandrobsnake Agreed. Still, I feel like saying it is a bad story is even unfair. The weakest moments in this game’s story are better than half the shit we get with other video games. It may be unfavorable but not bad.
This game been getting hate before it come out, in the trailer it show Ellie kissing another girl, then Abby was trans, then the leaks and how Joel die, then how Naughty Dog employers were leaving the company. I guess you have to play it and find out if you like it or not.
@@sandrobsnake Is odd comparing video games to movies. A lot of people score this game and put Joel's dead into the equation, I think if hard for people who loved the first game no to do it. But for some people this game is a most buy when will you be able to play the "hero" and the antagonist at the same time? But for people who wanted to play Joel is hard to sell.
Joel's death ruined Tommy's marriage because he couldn't let go of revenge
True but I always assumed they had problems based on the little screen time they had. Tommy was your typical brow beaten husband and they seemed to have communication problems subtly hinted at
Also Maria just seems quite controlling of Tommy
they disagreed too much and both were stubborn
Yes that was explicitly explained in the game but also it was more about sinking into that cycle of violence and despair giving up everything wonderful just for a little closure. Now as someone who NEVER got closure in both my personal and professional life this resonated with me so hard. My combat-related PTSD even made this game uncomfortable to play often but man I just wanna talk about this absolute magnum opus of videogames. Nothing will ever compare or outdo to Naughty dog and as a minima fanboy this is difficult to admit
Tommy was emasculated by his wife. Maria seem too dominant and masculine. That in itself is unbalance and why problems exist even in real life.
This is a fantastic analysis and it's everything I felt once I completed this game. I went into it completely blind, ensured I avoided literally all spoilers and any videos, the only thing I knew was it had one of the most controversial and biggest spoiler leaks I think I've ever seen. So I was aware the game was getting a lot of backlash but was willing to go into it ignoring all of this and deciding for myself. I was completely blown away by the game, for the same reasons you analysed the story (as well as gameplay, graphics, acting etc). Then I finally went online to get the opinions of others and it actually upset me lol.
I think people are used to a certain role from characters and a certain form of storytelling and they do not want any different. They're willing to accept that in smaller titles/games but if its a huge triple A title they expect the same cliche aspects of a story. Its upsetting as I think people are confusing them being angry with the direction of the story with criticising it for just being a bad story. The latter simply just is not true.
Furthermore I genuinely think the story leaks and the backlash had a massive impact on the general consensus. Everyone started piling on ND at once. I think it's the way human nature works sometimes and people seeing the general consensus being pure hatred they had already decided no matter what how the game tells this story, I will hate it no matter what. That's why this hatred of the game is so sad, it just does not feel genuine.
I could not agree more man, I did the same thing and feel the same way
People took themselves the chance to experience the game on their own and make up their own opinion about it, having an open mind for how the story plays out, before having it made up by others
I was the same way, I finished it and was like wow that was the best game ive ever played, lets go see what the internet has to say... "It's lazy writing!"...???? Like bro there are literally 4 parallel timelines all complete with symbolism, player-character-growth, climaxes, EGO DEATH!... They killed the main character and made an entirely new character to follow like how is that "lazy" lol some people. Then again I realize most the haters on the internet are probably 17 years old and im like why even bother lol.
@@spencerbell8386 man im only 22 and i love this game, i love stories that are morally gray, thats why i loved shows like Breaking Bad, Part 2 was cool, anyone can be the villain to another person's story
One thing I've learned as I've gotten older (gosh saying that makes me feel REALLY old) is that it's a normal human reaction to be angry when something challenges your views, it's your brain's defense mechanism. A lot of people automatically get angry without even really knowing why, and I've found the more I play the game, the more I love the parts that I was originally angered by.
At the end, I didn't want any of them to die either. I too just wanted them to stop. That's the point. Naughty Dog got me.
I feel like in games or movies or anything, it’s better to let the developers f**k with you and make you sad, not just think “I know what they’re doing and I’m not falling for it”
Jason ALV nah she was a great character and I got her perspective. My hate for her dissipated the more I played with her character.
I did not like playing through that ending.
@@jasonalv7436 That's understandable. I personally really like Abby though.
I've managed to really get used to her and understood her character, Seattle Day 1 was exhausting but my favorite parts of the game were when I was playing as her. The Rat King, Haven, L e v.
Of course it took me playing it twice to warm up to her.
I wasn't ready for any of them to die because they were at their lowest point I wanted Ellie to gain some weight and Abby to beef up so it could've been a real fight. I kind of pittied Abby when ellie pushed her in the water and she said "No, I'm not going to fight you" I was like dang and seeing Ellie messed up I was like extra dang I barely pressed buttons in the final fight because the game had me feeling the way Abby and Ellie looked at the end lol.
I literally gave you 1 minute standing ovation for this incredible review, i beat LOU2 3 days ago i was kinda disappointed but enjoyed the game and i really liked Abby side of the story but now after i watched your video i finally get the bigger picture, you gave me clear thought about game i even found my own closure while i was watching your video, thank you Nathan for this review again we need more people like who understands the depth of videogames's narrative storeline.
This analysis is the best one I’ve seen so far. Makes me love the game even more.
The analysis actually makes me hate it more because this type of story is not how u show respect to game especially when both protagonist are unlikeable and unrelatable when compared to Joel and Ellie in the first game.
@@dreadxplayzs7849 ok kid
@@dreadxplayzs7849 how is joel likable or relatable. Hes a violent criminal who when given the chance would probably torture you to death for a dollar
@@dreadxplayzs7849 one of the protagonists is also Ellie you boob
@@jmo5755 woah wait tlou2 is a great game, but joel was definitely more likeable than abby
I actually completely forgot about Abby’s dreams... you broke all of that down so well. ugh what a game *chef’s kiss*
“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves” - Confucius
damn, your point of view is really valid. I hate this game, and so mad when I had to play Abby. But after listen to what you say, it change my perspective. I can't say I like this game, but at the very least, I am holding less grudge against this game. Thank you for your hard work! subs already.
Seeing comments like this always makes me happy, I really feel for fans who hated part 2 cuz I know that’s a sucky feeling to have about a game this anticipated. Hoping more people can at least feel more neutral about it, viewing the characters through the lens of trauma really changed how I saw the story. Like every character is motivated by trauma in some realistic form or another in ways that play pivotal roles in the story’s development. The psych nerd in me just loves what they did with it haha can’t help but think this game’s gonna open up a new branch of thoughtful growth-fostering narratives in the industry
Ppl dont got common sense lol
Most people would be like you if they just gave it more thought after that intitial hit
Abby gameplay was much more interesting than Ellie gameplay.
@@golgariplague4746
I agree. Because Abby goes to a bunch of places that make the world feel more open, while Ellie has just a simple point a to point b story structure. One way to get revenge. But for Abby, it was bad at first, because I hated her. But when I started to like her it got wayy better.
And if you think about it, what Abby did, is exactly what Ellie would do. The only differences that we knew the character Abby killed
exactly. people’s bias towards joel ruins this game for them and it’s sad. he isn’t the saint they want him to be. i love him, but that’s the truth.
It’s how she killed Joel not the fact that she killed him
That's an amazing way to put it. Let's take Joel killing the fireflies, and Marlene, we were fine with that, because we loved Joel, and thogiht that everything he did was right, but all those people Joel killed, were just that. PEOPLE, with their own lifes. But we don't pay attention to that. In life, we grow attached to things, and wr don't want them to go away, or depart from us, so Joel diying was a genuine shock to everyone that loved him. And the instant reaction to that, to killing someone we so deeply cared about, is hating and wanting rhe person that killed him dead. There is the hate for Abby. But Joel wasn't a Saint, no one in tlou is. They all kill, in the most horrible ways, there is no good nor bad, its just people doing what they THINK is right. Joel killed Abbys father, so Abby wanted revenge, and she got it. Abby kills Joel, Ellies surrogate father, and Ellie wants to go on revenge as well as Tommy. But through the game, we see all these characters develop. Ellie kills all these people, out of rage, and so does Abby. They both learn to forgive, after devastating events happened in their own lifes. People need to see perspectives, in life you don't get everything you want. You have to deal with loss, the consequences of revenge and vengeance, and the result of rhe actions it took you to reach that point. This game should have teached people that forgiveness is essential in healing. Ellie decided to spare Abby, because there was no point, killing her would just make her feel more empty, and Ellie killing all of Abbys friends leads to the development of Abby. There is so much contrived points in this game, so complex and thogihtful. The simple fact that this game manages to to split a fanbase apart, means it told its story, and that's what makes it a mssterpeice.
@@NotFromHere. Ellie would’ve tortured him too, like how she tortured Nora
@@NotFromHere. Ellie literally killed a pregnant girl… if your gonna be mad about how Joel died, you need to apply that to EVERY character. It’s the apocalypse, and Joel had his death coming, for murdering the only people who had the knowledge to try and save humanity. Joel was selfish. He lied to Ellie about what happened for years, and that lie destroyed there relationship. Joel was a mass murder who killed whoever was in his way. He’s not the Arthur Morgan hero you want him to be. He died how he lived. Sorry your mad you didn’t get your stereotypical formulaic and predictable happy ending, but this game isn’t made to hold your hand and give you what you want.
nathan zed and drew gooden both having videogame opinions?? i'm flourishing.
People have different opinions holy shittt. Do you girls like being stupid.
@@colmmchugh7644 I don't think that's the point OP was trying to make... It's more that these two creators who don't usually talk about video games on their channels have both made their latest video about video games
And good ones too! :D
Cupcake Without The Icing this!! and also that they both stated that it's "not their usual content" but in fact talking about something they're passionate about and being compelling is why i follow them
@@teadrinker214 yes! I loved seeing that it was something they were really excited to talk about
TLOU2 is the most emotional I’ve gotten playing a video game and the most I thought about a game after I beat it. It’s not the best game I’ve ever played but it’s my favorite
Thank you so much for this video! I just finished TLOU2 and people online not understanding that the point of the game isn't "revenge bad" was driving me crazy. The game revolved so much around the characters' unresolved trauma and pain I was honestly surprised so many people missed it. One of the best sequels I've ever experienced in ANY form of media. I don't think I'll ever stop thinking about this game.
It is pretty much revenge bad tho
@@macvadda2318 i mean yeah sure if you fully strip away most of the fluff that is pretty much the general plot line but imo it’s even more about the complexity of grief and ptsd and violence in a post apocalyptic world 👍
@@steph3390 all those expect ptsd lead back to revenge, trauma in the game is used to explain the revenge, greif fuels revenge as well, nothing wrong with admitting the games overall theme is about the consequences of revenge
@@macvadda2318 a little reductive but if it makes you happy
@@macvadda2318 I disagree actually. Whilst the games plot is revenge, the games story is about the effects of Ellie's grief.
Kind of like how the first game's plot was a cure for humanity whilst the story was about the effects of Joel's grief.
Revenge is the driving force that pushes the plot, but it is thwarted by the characters.
Like how the first game the plot of getting a cure for humanity was thwarted by Joel's love for Ellie.
Revenge is a theme, yes but it's not the central theme. It is about the effects of grief and how the identity of the self relates to the identity of others. The only way the cycle of grief, and by proxy the cycle of revenge is broken is through forgiveness. The ending of the game shows a flashback to Joel and Ellie's final conversation where she finally takes steps towards forgiving Joel.
I just don't like how people say the game is only "revenge bad" because it is kinda reductive.
I ended up actually REALLY liking Abby. I thought she was a really great character. I wasn’t entirely onboard until the Scars out Lev and he asked if Abby wanted to ask him about it and she asked if he wanted her to. He tells her no and so she doesn’t. It made me realize that Abby isn’t a bad person. She didn’t kill Joel because she’s evil. She killed Joel because he took everything away from her. Like Joel. Joel becomes this hardened killer because her daughter was taken from him. This game definitely has some problems but I still loved what Naughty Dog was going for
To all characters in the games knowledge her dad was also the only person who could have made a cure... so not just abby’s life was affected by his death but essentially EVERYONE. Joel essentially committed a terrorist act by saving Ellie, dooming all of humanity to their knowledge.
Joel took everything from her, like actually going out of his way to save her life? Lol.
@@debuthunter5389 So he still killed her dad
@@billcipher3946 - Yeah who literally did it to stop Abby's dad from killing his adopted child.
Occasionally you come across a person who manages to speak the feeling in your head that you never managed to get out yourself.
This has been one of those times. Thanks man. I feel like I can breathe again now.
Hahah bro exactly the same. I’m just direct all haters towards this video as it says everything I’m thinking but better
@@jonmayes3262 They're not haters. This is a good game, but a terrible sequel. The gameplay and graphics are phenomenal but the story destroys the first game's story.
Eli The Sly Guy you’re upset because you wanted another loved up Joel and Ellie adventure, But they didn’t give it to you 😭
@@bash3294 this video read my mind, but people are understandably pissed, you dont need to knock that.
Lesturr it’s not understandable at all. Fandom is a disease that is rotting all media analysis . Everyone wants to pigeonhole other peoples stories . So entitled
This analysis genuinely made me look at the game in a completely different point of view. INCREDIBLE BREAKDOWN!!
I beat this game like 2 months ago and still can't stop thinking about it. It's far from perfect, but no other piece of media has made me think, feel and reflect as much as this game did. Truly an unforgettable experience that will forever hold a special place in my heart.
Thank you for giving this incredible story the time and attention it deserved 🙌🏻
Love it or hate it this game will be talked about for years
Or centuries
KROUPY CreePY decades my guy
I keep forgetting about it, I only remember it whenever it pops up in my feed.
And lots of videos about this game started to die out already.
Player1 the game ain’t bad bro 🤦♂️
Player1 mmhm just like every game, but YOU can’t deny that the discourse surrounding this is tiring
People are so used to the typical endings, where all the hero’s get a happy ending.
This game truely grabs you and takes you on a roller coaster of emotions, there is no other game that has done that to me. I think people need to appreciate how immersive the game actually is compared to your typical AAA titles.
Also, Imagine you only play as Ellie and find Abby just to kill her, pretty boring storyline right?....
Mark Stanisavljevic the thing is that most people don’t like emotionally taxing stories. I personally love them, because they really test your morals and beliefs, but it’s mostly an exhausting and uncomfortable experience, so I get why people didn’t like it. However, I believe people should experience these stories as they can make you grow a lot as a person. This game really changed me in terms of empathy and judgment and I appreciate it a ton
If done right then no.
There are lot's of games that end of different tones, like shadow worrier ends on a sad end, L.A. Noire ends on a sad end, Alan Wake ends on a confused end, Dead space games end on a bad end, spec ops the line ends on bad endings, and taletale games the walking dead season 1.
So saying that gamers would be angry and any but happy endings is a wrong notion to have.
It depends on the games journey to that end, why does the walking dead season 1 work?
Because the journey that gamers took to reach.
Most gamers when they reached the LOU2 feel that they journey to that ending was not worth it, you can't say that they are wrong if you enjoyed it or you can say that you are wrong for enjoying it.
What is wrong it calling people idiots or ungrateful for the endings, they used to they happy ending and when they didn't get it they are angry.
Then let me ask you, why weren't people angry when the walking dead season 1 ending was sad?
There are many games that can make people go through a roller coaster of emotions, like Valiant Hearts: The Great War did to me.
But it also depends on how they make you go through the roller coaster, if they just kick you in to it and then hit you head with it a swell then it wouldn't be as great of a roller coaster ride.
That was the most problem for people and not looking at each others arguments and only calling each other idiots will not solve anything.
@@seanwallcroft6272 It worked wonders for you but it didn't for me.
People are different and some though the game did a terrible job of it, and some moments weren't as great.
Or they just beat you constantly with emotions to the point it has an opposite effect on people.
Valiant Hearts: The Great War is an emotional story but people loved that game, it just depends on how they tell that kind of story.
Not really. The most basic of stories can be done right if portrayed and executed properly.
Saiegg no one denies that. TLOU1 is a simple, yet very touching story, so is the above mentioned Valiant Hearts. It’s just that some don’t have it in them to try and dig into these complex narratives, which is sad
I finished the game 2 days ago, It doesn’t deserve the hate its getting but I can see why alot of people hate it, Joel death shocked me. I loved the game.
I think it's all about perspective. We see Joel as a hero who saved Ellie, and we hate that he died, but from Abby's perspective, he's a piece of shit who killed her father and took away humanity's chance for a potential cure.
@@TheyWantMeGone69 hmm
@@magicmonkey978 No dont write a one word comment expecting me to ask "what" spit it out
@@TheyWantMeGone69 you're right, people hate the fact that Joel died because they got to play as him in the previous game, others also say that his death was a disrespectful one, forgetting that in the lawless world of TLOU shit doesn't go how you want it to, I mean it was in this same world that a doctor who wanted to develop a cure for humanity got killed in.
Joel definitely saw this coming, and I'm sure most of us did, just that when it happened, we weren't ready.
Joel's actions were selfish, even Ellie said that his actions prevented her life from meaning something.
Also, people say that the game forces you to like Abby, no it doesn't, it just gives you a chance to see It from her perspective, the same way the previous game gave you a chance to see it from Joel's perspective, letting you understand that Joel did all that he did because he lost his daughter.
This game doesn't deserve all the hate, it's truly a masterpiece
Joel Death are the reason why people don't finished the story. People need to finished the story bruh.... imagine the cutscene is in chronicle order. People would have react goes different
if this game was a film, it would sweep the floor of the oscars winning all the awards, it's a truly masterpiece.
i wish to see see more agressive writing like this from other game studios
It was a risky move, but it failed.
Most gamers aren't prepared to feel uncomfortable, they are the kind of people that only watch Marvel movies.
It did win all kinds of awards
The games is garbage a sjw agenda push
@@richenrd I legitimately said nothing bad about it even though it is
I think there's also something really interesting about how Ellie saved Abby and Lev's life by seeking her out to kill her one last time. If Ellie stayed back at the farm, Abby and Lev would have been left hanging from that post to die some pretty miserable deaths. There's something really poetic about that
just like if joel didn't save abby, she would've got eaten by zombies
@@afraidsari True. But then Joel had it coming.
Well now that you framed it this way, ain't that familiar...Joel's originap mission was to delivery ellie for a cure but ending up saving her. Still rhymes with part 1 ending
I wish they did?
no. it is just dumb.
The whole story is DUMB
the characters are extremely unlikeable.
Whether you like or dislike the "direction" and "choices" in the story - the fact that it CHALLENGES you as a player is what makes it so good. Games are too often one-note, simplistic affairs with uncomplicated characters. I absolutely LOVE that Naughty Dog swung for the fences here and made this such a unique experience. I think from a place of objectivity, it has to earn high marks on that alone.
For real though- this is an EXCELLENT deconstruction of the story and a very well-argued opinion on the game's narrative. Well done, man :-D
There is a difference between deconstruction and subversion of expectations for the sake of shock value. If the story was executed better, I would be inclined to agree with you but seeing how rushed and messy it was handled, I think you're giving the writers WAY too much credit
Matt.Z The problem with calling it shock value is that it implies that’s the only thing of value it has. There’s so much more to it than that. What was messy about it, the story feels pretty tight to me.
Harpreet Mangat No, there isn’t anymore to it. The graphic are great.. Everything else has been done much better previously. This game helps justify insults that gaming is a juvenile medium and it pisses me off.
@Matt - Strong disagree. Nothing in this game really shocked me all, least of all Joel's death - that was inevitable as soon as the first game ended. If that surprised you, you weren't paying attention.
@@Jogwheel what in the first game made you think he was gonna die? or die like that?
I wish more people would sit with their thoughts and feelings long enough to write an essay like you did before they just went online to just talk at people into joining their hive mind opinion of good or bad. Its been weeks now and I still see names who have jumped around repeating the same shallow words as if they think any form of art isn't subjective. I personally love this game but I can totally understand why others might not, but I can't give much respect to those that just jump on because its the cool new thing to hate, or because they aren't comfortable enough stewing in a story with so much negative atmosphere long enough to understand the message to get why their rejection is part of the intended process. I've seen reviews where someone might talk for almost an hour saying how much they hated it but can't express in a clear reason why without just saying "bad/lazy writing" and sifting the blame off themselves.
In any case, it is a story that is so heavy and hard to not think about even a week after I've beaten it, that I still had to look around to see how others are digesting it. I remember day 1, within 12 hrs of release, metacritic had like 20,000 negative reviews. I don't need to point out how that would happen with a 30~ hr game or how half of them liked to focus on bigot ideals. I knew it would just take sometime before someone who knew how to process their words came out. New here btw. This was a good perspective from someone who clearly knows something about how stories are told in various ways.
could not agree more
As a whole the premise was alright, but the execution and details not great. Joels death was out of character as he was uncharacteristically naive to her and the group, which people are annoyed about. Being forced to play as Abby (post murder) annoyed people, and the fact it went on for 10+ hours doubly annoyed people. Fighting against Ellie (who we all love) straight up pissed most of us off. Add in the fact that the serefites and WLF war seems pointless, and the lack of respect to the infected (teenagers just do patrol rounds taking out clickers like tying a shoelace), add in transgender kid (because it is on trend today)... I feel the characters, the harsh survival aspects of the game, and the players connection to all of it (established in game 1) were not given enough respect.
@@debuthunter5389 Just because you didn't like certain parts that doesn't fall on bad execution.
@@debuthunter5389
Joel's death is "uncharacteristic." This point has been used so much and I've explained it time and time again. So I'm going to try a different approach because I've noticed a common theme when it's brought up. Do you think you could explain the scene and how Joel's death played out from beginning to end?
@@debuthunter5389 yah none of this speaks to it actually being a bad game, more personal or strange issues you have that apparently made it unenjoyable for you
This game is about emotion, not rationality. The world we live in operates on rationality. I think that's why a lot of people don't understand it, because you need compassion to get it.
One of the biggest critiques is that people still don't like abby after hours of gameplay. You don't have to like her, you just have to understand how she lives and lived.
It's you know, the grey zone.
@Nathan Zed: I love your video. I always come back to it and I have watched it so many times. You capture the heart of this story so beautifully. Thank you so much.
Lol, No. It's because we have compassion that we don't like Abby or even Ellie after a point in this game. You're looking for empathy, my friend. And, naughty dog foolishly tries to force feed you empathy for a character they just made you dislike.
I agree! Always thought that The Last of Us was more of an emotional story than a rational one. How Joel could have rationally gave Ellie up for the sake of the world but didn't because he couldn't deal with a death of another daughter. That's purely an emotional motivation. I feel that's the same case as Ellie giving everything up from her life to chase after Abby, but only to pull back at the last second of trying to kill her and eventually spared her. Logically, she should have killed her, she was on the verge of it. But she pulled back when she was reminded of her last talk with Joel about learning how to forgive. Purely emotional. There's not much logic in their actions, sure, but it made sense emotionally. And that's amazing character writing, in my opinion. Especially in this type of genre.
The world we live in does not operate on rationality. Not at all.
How is the world rational?
@@elijahkisamo5768 The idea of art forcing something on you is the most misused sentiment in "criticism". I don't think you understand what that criticism even means.
owen: abby, when the moon comes out-
Abby: i found joel
owen: bruhhhh
Lol
Lol
This is how I feel about the game. It doesn’t deserve the hate it is getting. Excellent review!
i understand the point, but the way of storytelling still.......broken
and unacceptable.
@@謎思特異 maybe explain why?
謎思特異 you should explain why Its unacceptable. A lot of these people who apparently know about “good writing” almost never gives valid arguments which makes their opinions shallow and has no weight to it.
@@bluebaconjake405 the amount of time characters are about to be killed and are saved out of nowhere is ridiculous
@@ranaamir9073 almost like a world full of gangs and infected..
i've never played TLOU but i loved every second of this video. just thinking how these characters got closure despite how much they have suffered makes my eyes teary eyed
What closure? Ellie loses everyone. Doesn’t get revenge. Tommy loses everyone. Doesn’t get revenge. Joel dies. Needlessly. Dina loses Ellie. Jessie dies. Even the antagonist Abby loses everyone except for Lev who she’s known for 2 mins.
Literally what game were some of you playing. Ellie can’t even play guitar anymore for god sake. How is any of this closure?
@@BourbonJRA Let people enjoy things shhh
Revanchist did you not watch the video? Closure doesn’t have to mean revenge
@@cuppedcup By all means enjoy what you want, but I don't see how you can say any of the characters got closure. That is literally the last thing this game gave us lol
@@BourbonJRA maybe closure isn't the right word for what i was trying to say (sorry, english isn't my first language). i meant that they finally can start to move on from their losses. even though they'll never be able to forget what happened, at least they found better ways to cope (as nathan said)
Almost 4 years now and still one of the best reviews of a game I’ve ever seen
This game is honestly my favorite of all time, no other piece of media has made me think so much and for so long after completing it.
it got Nathan to write an essay 😂👌
Wouldn’t say my best maybe top 20
Agreed. I think it has to be number 1 purely because of how much I thought about it. Having said that, Ellie deciding last minute not to kill Abby is cliche trite and they wasted the opportunity to have Abby and Ellie witness each others impact on the world throughout the game. Still highly underrated.
@@heartbeatbillionaire Damn spoiler much for the rest of the folks, but fair points. I'm also surprised how much this game ahs been on my mind. Amazing!
yes.....i wouldn't say its my favorite but it holds a special place in my heart
It hit me hard asf when he said “Abby had her own The Last of Us”😭🙌
Same
The ugly truth
@Chad bad she didn’t, Lev did that. Asian Atreus, i would say Abby had a God of War not a Last of Us.
Abby wanted and was relishing killing a pregnant woman and her unborn child...
No hesitation. No remorse.
@Chad bad no he reminded her of humanity. Without him she would still act and killed Dina then Ellie
@@herbg4866 After Ellie killed Mel who was also pregnant I kinda saw this coming
I agree 100%, people need to understand this is not an uncharted game where we get inside a mess, with fix it an save everybody again and again. This a cruel world inside the game. Also Revenge is a never ending cycle that keeps on going and kills everybody around it, it may be physically and spiritually.
good point!
@@momo-hs5jn not really
You've not really said anything new or countered what people say about this game. Everyone understands what you said. Nobody said the game had to be all sunshine and rainbows and everybody lives...notbone person has said that. Its the WAY by which stuff happens that sucks. Doesnt make sense. And leaves you feeling empty because of poor character and story writing. Literally everyone knows revenge makes others want revenge on you, its been done a million times and was done very poorly in this game
this game lacks fully developed characters (owen, mel, nora, jesse, manny and dina) these characters are either pregnant or they make jokes a few times or they like there dog or they have absolutely nothing to them.
Abby had the potential to be a very good character I actually thought her background makes sense but they introduced her backstory after 12 hours into the game. She remained cartoonishly evil for the first 12 hours of the game they should've introduced her at the very beginning to make her sympathatic instead of making her unlikeable. And her whole arc is a mess there's flashback within flashback then the story progresses forward then another flashback flashback. Because of these unorganized flashbacks you don't know what abby actually wants does she want joel dead or does she want to save her bf or does she want to save some random kid I don't know because its hard to keep up. And the whole going around for an hour to search for medicine is one of the most tedious and boring chores i have ever played just for yara to die in the end in a very stupid way then what's the fucking point. And the ending just boils down to revenge is bad and revenge ruined everything, this concept has been explored in literature for literally 600 years and doesnt perfect this concept due to shallow characters and poor pacing why is this concept necessary its already been done before in movies books games TV shows and more. But hey if you like it, knock yourself out
@@ahmedluay-mu7me maybe you have never read a book wrote after the 1800, lol.
The Last of Us Part 2 made me realize how selfish majority of gamers are.
Tyrone Magnus
@@02sideshow What about him?
@@jessegallegos-king5113 he was bitching and jumping on the hate train and was selfish
@@02sideshow Oh, tell me about it. It's like nuance can't even exist in video games now. Glad some people are willing to overlook it's faults and enjoy the game though. That's what video games are for. Enjoyment.
@@jessegallegos-king5113 yeah the crazy part is ppl trash on the game but haven’t even played to get the feel and have their own perspective they just gotta follow other ppls
Everything you said is exactly it. That is pecisely correct. It is exactly the point this game was trying to make. A perfect breakdown you have done in a very level-headed view. Possibly the mos intelligent analysis of a piece of media I've seen
That’s sad if that’s true
Loved the video, honestly would love to see you make more vids like this because it was so insightful and well thought-out. Why you gotta remind me about GoT season 8 tho
Should have paid attention in season 4 that it's gonna suck!
There is still hope for the books. If Martin ever finishes.
Man... great analysis. I enjoyed the route they went with this game. I wish Abby’s story was a little shorter cause I enjoyed playing as Ellie more, but overall man the experience was great. Def an unforgettable game for sure!
It seemed like Abby's story was shorter. I might be wrong, but it seemed like it. lol
MaybeNextTime People hated on the game before it even came out, it kindve shows you just how close minded people came into the game before even giving it a try. The point of playing as abby was that she’s not some psychotic killer you think she is from your first impression, but just another flawed human being getting by. You don’t have to like her, or emphasize for her, but it’s not hard to understand her.
@MaybeNextTime 'They did not give me a fan service type game and I had to do things I was uncomfortable with therefore it is a bad game.'
You basically rushed head first to the point but faceplanted in front it.
You're supposed to be uncomfortable with the actions characters take, that's the driving force of the story. You're supposed to question their reasoning just like we did with Joel at the end of part 1. I personally did not like Joel's decision in part 1 but you don't see me asking for a remake of part 1 or calling it shitty writing. Characters doing actions youre uncomfortable with does not make it bad storytelling.
@MaybeNextTime you might not personally like how they make you fight ellie as abby but it's already obvious they wouldnt let you kill ellie and you fighting against the charactor you love that just speaks volumes I thought it was really cool but ya I guess that's you opinion and I respect that
@MaybeNextTime you need to widen your perspectives, writers should not care about favourites. Writers write to tell compelling stories within thier universes. We see Hollywood put so much plot armour on character and force happy endings with "heroes". This game is so refreshing and different. It's not saying "you have to like Abby", it's saying "this is this character, this is her story, we don't care if you love or hate her, she's a character in this universe that's tied to main character events and becomes a main character herself."
maybe it‘s because I‘m an author myself and I understood the point of the storytelling from th get go - BUT I loved this game so much, even after my first playthrough. It left me not satisfied… yet I knew that was the entire point of it. It left me questioning humanity, my own decisions and our generation… past generations… it is so much more than just a game and I have mad respect for people who understand that, and those who created it.
I started out hating Abby but at the end I was crying because I thought she was going to die. The game was showing us how both of them did the same thing and it wasn't evil vs good, it was gray vs gray. 2 people who made good and bad decisions both struggling with letting it go and moving on instead of trying to cope with revenge.
Yea, you kinda felt a bit bad for Abby how she was hanging from that post looking all different scrawny and really sad..and when she said help me, and Ellie cut her down, first thing she did was get Lev down out of love for her. She looked so sad weak hopeless and left with almost no life in her, but her focused was saving Levs life, you kinda feel sympathetic towards her ....still HATE having to play her for almost more than half the game though, but what I didn’t thought was possible was possible at that ending scene with her sad self. So, bravo for kinda allowing me to feeling some form of compassion toward Abby naughty dog..
The people that don’t like the game are failing to understand what it’s about...
There are no heroes in a world completely desolated. It’s perfectly harrowing and melancholic.
It’s unfortunate people are incapable at looking past Joel’s death and playing as the perceived villain... It’s a game about the weight of violence and the trauma of losing someone you love.
Jack Osborne I hate how overhated this game is.
They can make fun of those who do like it but it’s such a good story told not so well.
They only hate the game cause Joel got done dirty:
@@JackOsborneFilm
And this makes it good?
I know what this game is about and what it wants... And I still don't like it, for a couple of reasons.
@@Neo-ff4uo It's ok if you don't like it, but there are so many people that just don't get it.
this is the best video on TLOU2 that I've seen. Honestly it made me frustrated seeing so much hate for this game. It isn't perfect but it's so well crafted and the story contains so much nuance and I think that is lost on people.
The reason why people dislike it is because they had hopes, maybe High Hopes for the game which didn't live up to the Expectations. it wasn't a small disappointment to them it was pretty huge after all the first game was agreed by all to be the best game of the year.
Some people are just meme loving bandwagoning trolls who never touched it, and some people just don’t get how amazing the writing and story telling is and how deep it goes into depth and morality. It was a 10/10 for me
@@madmank7881 It IS agreed by all that TLOU2 is the best game of the year. It is now, in fact, the most awarded game in history. The only reason the hate for the first game was so quiet is because TLOU was actually very niche and it was only after everyone who actually played and reviewed it raved about it that it started gaining popularity. The people who loved TLOU1 because they were told to are the same people who hate TLOU2 because they were told to. The difference between TLOU1 and TLOU2 is that TLOU2 already had an enormous hate campaign that started LONG before the leaks happened and LONG before Part II was even announced. This is the same hate campaign that started as far back as Left Behind when Ellie was revealed to be gay. You'll notice that the vast majority of people who hate TLOU2 also seem to hate Left Behind and there's a reason for that. People like The Quartering, Geeks + Gamers, Tyrone Magnus, etc. who are some of the most toxic, disgusting people on this platform are the ones who spread this hateful garbage. If you are someone who hates TLOU2 and are genuinely not a homophobe/transphobe/racist, etc, you should be wary and cautious of your peers because the vast majority of them genuinely are. The hate for TLOU2 is entirely politically motivated and every youtube channel I've seen that has tried to justify their disgusting beliefs by saying a bunch of random bullshit (clear evidence that they don't understand wtf they're talking about and probably haven't even played the game) stumbles over their words and PURPOSEFULLY misinterprets the game's intentions in order to spread misinformation.
@@TheOutsider69 My dude the game is definitely not as loved as you make it out to be I can agree that it is a decent movie game, with good gameplay and graphics what people don't like is the story that's why it gets a 7.5 out of 10 because the story is a large amount of the game as it's a movie game.
@@madmank7881 The main reason most people hate it is because of the mindless hate the leaks got. The thousands of impotent manbabies on youtube who threw a fit about a game they hadn't played caused people to hate it, because of the sheep mentality that the internet causes.
The comment you mention, that "Last of Us Part 1 ends hopeful on the surface, but with misery underneath. Last of Us Part 2 ends with misery on the surface, but hopeful underneath", is just spot on. Imma keep that one in the back of my mind.
great analysis, I think people that hate this game cannot comprehend the narrative complexity of this game or were just too shocked by Joel's death that they stopped thinking altogether.
I think that's a very uncharitable position to take on opposing perspectives.
Well that and the fact the story telling happens because the characters wanted to do it unlike the first one where the characters was put in a situation where they had no control over.
@@scoutalejan8259 Ngl I really still think ATLA is definitely more complex than TLOK.
@@scoutalejan8259 that’s just a you thing. If you can’t get over it it’s ok. But looking at all characters fairly and trying to be unbiased wether you like them or not is the only real way to get it completely
@@scoutalejan8259 I’m a huge last of us 2 fan, and I can say with 100% certainty that Abby was the most likable character and part of the game for me. Joel had his death coming. He murdered many innocent people, and destroyed the only chances of saving humanity by murdering Abby’s father, who could have made the vaccine. He lied to Ellie for years about what happened and destroyed there relationship, because he was too selfish to just tell her the truth. Ellie was also awful to Joel, pushing him away for years, and his death started her entire revenge arch, when she was consumed by guilt after his death, and she slowly loses herself, abandoned Dina and her family, all to hunt for Abby in a bloodthirsty rage. Abby didn’t even want to fight Ellie anymore. Ellie could only beat abby when she was starved and in agony. Abby spared Ellie many times, and at the end of the game, you realize all of ten characters are equal, but Abby is the most likable one, abandoning everything to do what’s right to protect lev, not even wanting to fight Ellie anymore. Abby is a beautiful character. She’s definitely more likeable then Joel and Ellie in my opinion. Ellie is immature and loses herself, Joel is selfish and had it coming. Abby did terrible things, but she did them for the right reasons, unlike Joel and Ellie.
I have watched about 30 different analysis videos to see everyone’s perspective. And yours is by far the best one.
Wow! You made me say “oooooo” so many times!
I wanted to beat the game before watching this and man this is the most concise and best analysis of the game I've seen. I loved how you analyzed each character especially Abby and Tommy. I like the miserable ending with hope underneath, especially with Ellie now wearing Dina's wrist band!
I am certain a whole lot of the people disliking the game didn't even finish it before going online and sucking up all the hate/criticism, taking themselves the chance to experience it on their own and make up their own opinion about it
NightTimer you’re most definitely right. I’m so glad I wasn’t spoiled on the ending and all the little moments. I wish I could experience it all again for the first time
I think one of the main themes of TLOU Part 2 is that there’s no Winners or Losers. Even the person playing loses. Joel loses his life, Ellie loses literally everything, Abby loses all of her friends, tommy gets crippled and loses his wife, Jesse dies, Dina loses her gf and adoptive mother of her son, etc, etc. nobody wins!!!!!
I agree and that’s why when I see comments saying “the game is a masterpiece because it’s like real life, you just don’t get it” kind of annoys me because life it’s not like that either. Many people suffer of course but many people are also happy. We don’t get to see that “happy” until the end and after that we and Ellie loses it so it’s way too tragic for people defending it saying it’s like real life.
@@santiagoarauz1580 I think people say this game represents real life as cruel as it can be, obviously not for everyone, but it's different from the majority of the pieces of entertainment that usually have a happy ending. Life can be happy for lots of people, but it can also be as cruel as it is in tlou for lots of other people
joaovitor Cruz yeah I can agree there. This game is a tragedy which it’s fine if you like that as an audience but saying it’s like real life it’s just absurd. The first game had many of both sides, part 2 was only misery. The people using that as a defense is what’s annoys me lol not the fact that the game could be considered a tragedy.
Dina doesn't lose Ellie when she leaves for California if you look at her arm she doesn't have the bracelet Dina gave her in Seattle but when she goes back to the farmhouse on her right arm the bracelet is back on her arm
Ding ding ding you just defined every zombie narrative that try’s to deliver a message. Last of us is a zombie narrative. Most movies examine the human conditions and zombie narrative take it to the next level. The first game showed the grey area in a lot of people. but so many thought Joel was justified in in actions. But that’s why this sequel works. It’s really challenges you perspective.
The Last of Us has been my ultimate favorite video game. The Last of Us 2 is the first time I considered sharing that. This is the most brutal game I've experienced and I love it.
The last flashback of Joel is the most bittersweet and telling information of Ellie's drive this whole time. This game is punishing but rewarding. I loved the heartbreak of fighting myself while urging both of my characters to put down my guns
You literally nailed this perfectly. I can’t even begin to find the words to explain how perfect this analysis is. People really sheep out here shitting on this game. And I like how you called out the people comparing this to the nightmare that was season 8 of game of thrones. TLOU2 doesn’t even come close to how bad that was
Thank you.....everyone is on the HATE bandwagon an most didn't even play it
I think people some do have geniune critisizms of the game, but if anyone gives this game less than a 6, its a clear indication they havent played it..
@@milorexhar6621 Or that they are being completely disingenuous. I've seen reviews on metacritic that concede that the game in itself has great aspects, with its visuals, gameplay and everything, but still give it a 0/10 no matter what, because they personally didn't like the story. Giving this game anything less than a 6 is simply being dishonest and not trying to criticize it objectively.
@@milorexhar6621 or that they have a different opinion than you. It's amazing how you TLOU2 shills can't accept differences in opinion, you treat people with a different opinion than you as idiots who "just don't understand" this assinine and hackneyed story, or haters. Textbook fanboys. The way TLOU2 defenders act is just like Rick and Morty fans.
@@flecks_piano because the story is literally everything in this series and the only reason people play it, the gameplay is bland and boring schlock that improves on almost nothing from 7 years ago.
i keep coming back to this video because it's so g o o d i can't believe it didn't blow up
Dude, so its all Joel's fault? Clearly this dude has no idea what is the point of bieng father. Ellie's life would have mattered? She didnt knew she was going to die, it was not her concent
Damn, this game man. There will never be another one like it, ever. Its the perfect wakeup call for anyone thats on a destructive road. My favorite game of all time. Maybe my favorite story of all time and that includes books and movies too.
Facts
Bruh it’s a game about zombies, a game where hundreds of people die like it really isn’t that deep and if you think this is deep then you should go check out other games movies and tv shows because they show the same themes
@@terryliamakeros4552 what theme is that 😂and point out to me a few shows and movies that display these exact themes. Cause you know I’d love to watch them
@@jebidiaschatman3997 the themes of violence, perspective, two sides to every story, loss, forgiveness, cycles of violence they’ve all been done before. There are plenty of movies about war or about violence that display these themes.the walking dead made its living off of these themes and again like I said people die by the hundreds, it’s a zombie apocalypse who in today’s world can relate to those situations.The idea of forgiveness has been done in metal gear solid and in shadow of the collosues and other games that I’m sure people who are older than me can name
play Red Dead
here after the game awards, and i feel bad for neil druckmann 😢
Why are you sad? He did win
@@Carlos-ln8fd yeah, but i guarantee you he’s getting constant death threats from butthurt idiots as a result
@@BROJANGSTER right right. that's horrible but i'm sure all the toxicity will die out soon.
I dont.
@@Carlos-ln8fd lol nope. Still going strong a year later.
What?? Someone really understood the narrative of the game? I am pleasantly surprised. Great that a few people can think beyond first bias or emotions that come up.
Agree with your points made. I thought alike after the game was done.
But the point with Abby's dreams and how it turns out and she wakes up easy the last time I did not notice until now. Nice observation.
I actually didn't enjoy this. I didn't care for anyone in the game so the deaths meant nothing. What bothered me was how to was told.
@@arunkeshavadas7171 True. This game was going for something else but feel face first. It was trying so hard to be tragic and conflicting but instead I felt either apathetic to what is happening and unengaged or I just felt manipulated to feel a certain way based on the direction of the game. As a result, it leads to a bad experience unlike the first does the same effect better in a gradual way.
@Arun Keshavadas With the way Abby’s character’s portrayed you don’t have to end up liking her. But just like every other character in TLOU universe, you can come to understand her (the whole point of playing 12 hrs as her). The game is only showing you the other side to the conflict. If you view it that way, it won’t feel emotionally manipulative. As for Joel, it would’ve felt good to have him around longer but ultimately his character arc was complete after he regained back his humanity with Ellie.
Both Ellie and Abby became who they hated. Ellie became obsessed with revenge which led to PTSD (like Abbys nightmares) while Abby became protective towards Lev like Joel did to Ellie.
If it wasn't for Lev, Abby will slit pregnant Diana which is mess up.
@@heavyrain4485 dina*
In your comment Ellie / Abby parallel kinda doesnt fit, but the Abby / Joel one is spot on!
Nero Pasta what do you mean? That’s how Abby started towards the beginning of the game
@@heavyrain4485 Abby wouldn't have wanted to kill Dina if Ellie killed Mel
“I’ve never fought a final boss where I wanted neither to die” MGS3 would like to have a word with you
I appreciate you👉🏾
*Bloodborne knocks on the window*
I’m sorry but what is MGS
@@sketta. pretty sure it's Metal Gear Solid
It's a little different tho. You kill The Boss for a greater cause, she is going to die nevertheless for radiation, you are just giving her the battle she always wanted to fight. It's more like giving the right respect to this character: i wanted the boss to live fully her final moments. And remember that both are supersoldiers, Abby and Ellie are just two girls
bruh i still think about this game almost daily. one of the most nuanced and balanced stories i've ever seen and maybe will ever see
It makes me so sad how badly this game was received and I completely agree with all the points you made. I loved the game. Can't stop thinking about it. I've literally watched so many people play it and I'm still not bored yet.
Many people like the game. Majority who’ve played it love it. Unfortunately, those who hate it are the loudest at the moment. This is by design, though.
@@major4211 trust me man, outside America the situation is very very different.
They make a lot of noyse, but they are still about 45% of the comunity, not ALL the comunity.
I actually prefer watching my boyfriend play this over 2k
@@breisjaded3068 well yeah whats enjoyable about watching 2K? this game actually has a story
@Harry Paul if you truly think that about the game, then everything it was trying to show you flew over your head. I am truly glad I don't look at media in the same depressing way you do.
I watched jacksepticeye's playthrough from start to finish - I got extremely invested in the plot, and stressed myself out for hours thinking about the morality dilemma the game presents. Honestly Nathan, this video sums up everything I was thinking and MORE, in such a sophisticated way. Props to you!! I find it a bit baffling how many people refused to sympathise with Abby and still wanted her dead by the end, when, as you say in this video, she's been going through her own The Last of Us and we only hate her because we've been following Ellie and Joel's narrative. They're all just trying to find happiness, man. Honestly the only thing that saddened me about the ending was the fact that Ellie and Dina's love story was left unfinished; I've had to reassure myself that Ellie would have gone back to Jackson, reconciled with Dina and raised JJ with her lol. Great video Nathan! Love the way you explain things xx
dina really didn't seem to be the type to hold a grudge against ellie, and they clearly love each other but were in difficult circumstances. judging by how they were best friends before they became parents, i'm highly optimistic that they're back together (also i don't think i could take it if they weren't so headcanon i guess)
Cause abby is a bland character just used for being manipulative.
This video is the Perfect TLOU2 Review
Nah NakeyNakey made a much better one, with a much better point.
@@popninja8658 nah mine was better
@@TheThirdPew I mean his is an hour long. With a lot more facts, and less opinions.
@@popninja8658 I'm just kidding I loved jakey's review. but his review was also full of opinions lmao
@@popninja8658 his was only better because his opinion fitted yours 😂 smh
Wow, I have watched/listened to a lot of essays about this game, but none have captured my feelings about this game quite like you did. Hats off to you man, great video!