This is **GREAT** data! Thank you so much for doing this testing. I have always been a fan of C&C Kitchen for the mechanical testing he did, but I always felt he never really took it far enough or went into enough detail with it for my pew-pew purposes. Please keep doing these test!! Bravo, Sir!
I manage the printers at my work, I use CF PA12 to make last second custom tooling. The stuff is pretty mechanically strong and very heat resistant. Just a pain to break/clean supports. Oh, yeah, you can also throw it on a milling machine 😉
Great one. I like the new video format. I did a little creep testing with pa12-cf recently and the difference between annealed (80°C 6h) and raw is huge
I would love to see you test the heat resistance of the pla+ when annealed. Other testers have shown a significant increase in temp resistance, so it would be good to see your results along with heat resistance changes for the pa12.
I've been printing my frames, receivers, magazines, and accessories in PolyMakers PA6-CF. It's supposedly stronger than the PA12-CF (according to them) especially post - moisture absorption. AFAIK the reason the PA12-CF is more expensive is because it's a much more stable filament.
No one has done more for the community of 2a printing I appreciate the info . Can’t wait to see how this material holds up. Although esun pla+ still going strong just put another 60 round through the build. I’m sure I could melt it down but I have once every other month put 2-3 mags through it just for fun and have yet to have any issues although I do store it in the house haha I’m sure if I put it in my truck on summer day all day I might mess it up haha but for a safe gun that is good to go the super lower I am very confident in holding up. It will be interesting though when the new upper is tested to such a extent. Soon as I get off couple weeks after Christmas plan on maybe looking at what you got on website and building another build. Appreciate your work Brother. God bless
Such great data, thanks for all the work! I'd also be curious how a CF-ASA like the one 3D X Tech makes would perform, as ASA is much more resistant to environmental factors but not as strong.
Engineering comment on carbon-fiber nylon composites. For most composites of this type, the carbon fiber carries the load and provide stiffness. The nylon distributes the load between the carbon fibers and provides toughness compared to the brittle carbon fiber. This is why wet nylon matters much less in a composite part than a nylon only part. Nylon with higher moisture content is actually tougher and the fact that it is softer matters less because the carbon is carrying the structural load. This holds true until the nylon becomes so soft that you start to get fiber pullout and adhesion failures. In some ways wet nylon is better at doing its job in the composite than dry. That said, the actual carbon fiber lengths in these filaments are likely very short so the nylon is doing a lot more work. When printing with them for structural applications, I would expect the fibers to be roughly aligned with print direction as well. Across the layer lines, they may perform much more like nylon than a composite.
I think the short fibers negate a lot of this, as you said. With high fiber content Nylons I think this is the case, such as the PA6. But with lower fiber Nylons the stiffness of the base filament is still very important.
Great video! Can't wait to see creep tests! I wonder, according to polymaker's datasheets the PA6 nylon that has been moisture conditioned is stiffer, stronger, and tougher in every metric than even dried pa12. The youngs modulus of wet pa6 is 170-185% higher and the bending modulus is 180-190% higher than dry/ moist pa12 respectively. So while pa6 does lose strength and stiffness (while gaining impact resistance) from moisture conditioning, is it even a concern if it ends up stronger/ stiffer/ more impact resistant than pa12 ever was? Surface finish aside, is pa6 not still the more technically capable (and cheaper) of the two?
I need to test the PA6 again, and see if this is really true. My testing results have not been consistent with those from Polymaker. But I do agree with you, that the higher carbon content PA6 is still a good option. Especially considering the higher temp resistance. Layer adhesion is an unknown at this point still, but will also be part of the equation.
And watching this test of polymaker's nylon filaments, pa6 performs better with creep under load and torque. Very interesting, I'd love to hear your thoughts. th-cam.com/video/cQb-hbr1KYY/w-d-xo.html
I have a bunch of Hoffman lowers in polymaker pa6 and they have been holding up great in hot humid summer and cold dry winter here in Indiana. I anneal them at 175f for 6-12 hours. I usually put them in the oven or filament dryer overnight and get them out when I wake up. I'm curious to see Hoffman's data as his testing is much more scientific than mine, but I've had great results and its a bit cheaper than the pa12
@Hoffman Tactical Love your testing man. It's something truly lacking in this community. I'd love to see ya test prusament pa11 and bambu lab pa-cf as well. The bambu lab filament is a mixture between pa6 and pa12. Heard great things about both.
Just got my fiberlogy pa12CF15 going to probably need to upgrade my hotend heatsink fan to not get any heat creep printing in a warm chamber. I do see they make a 5% carbon version and would definitely have chosen that one but they don't seem to have any available in the U.S.
@@HoffmanTactical Just did some flow calibration cubes and already having some bed adhesion issues. Any ideas how to alleviate this? Tried getting a really squished slow first layer on 85°C glue stick and it has almost no adhesion. May have to bump my temps even more since fiberlogy recommends 90-110°C bed temps.
So I just waited an almost two days for theSL- 15 I used it a Creality filment dryer on my ender 3 S1 pro with a harden steel nozzle at 280 nozzle temps 50c bed temp it was ploymide PA6-CF . My first time using this filament .. ran the dryer it while printing use painters tape on the bed for better adhesion minimal warping … so I attach the new upper to it after printing… an left it on . Then I wasn’t paying attention and knocked it over on to the carpet and crack my finished print and now I’m back at square one what can I do to prevent this again .. I wanted it for the heat resistance but it cracked on the first drop it took .. please I need suggestions only have enough to print one more lower thanks
@@MartinMcbride-xu2dn To some degree, yes. A higher temp will take less time to heat the part to the needed temperature. But there is still some minimum you need to reach. I assume that's 80 C. But it may be lower.
hi i love your content and its definitely gotten me interested in wanting to try printing something but i am a little concerned about the strength and durability of filament printing .im an industrial designer and was wondering if it might not be better to 3d print parts and then make silicone molds of the 3d prints for resin casting, maybe even mix in steel wool or carbon fiber into the liquid casting resin for added strength. im wondering if any of the high end engineering or tool making casting resins might be superior to any of the 3d printer filaments? ...i was going to reach out to my supplier and get the specs of some of the casting resins to see if they are indeed superior to direct 3d printing but im not sure what numbers im trying to beat. what is the strongest 3d printing filament in your opinion and do you happen to have a rough tensile strengh so i have a reference to try and beat? urethane casting resin might be interesting too because while its stiff, it has a little bit of stretch so it will be less likely to crack....anyway, if you can give me a tensile strength to try and beat i would appreciate it...thanks
Urethane casting is a great process when needed (I've used it for vacuum parts), but it is far more involved and difficult than simply printing the part, which is why I focus on direct printing.
I've done some. After annealing is much better, but still has a little creep. Would be OK for Glock frames, and maybe lowers. But too much for the Orca due to the area around the clips.
What's the difference between the heat deflection temperature and the glass transition temperature? Because the glass transition temp is listed as lower than that of the Polymaker PLA Pro. Maybe that's the number we should be looking at?
@@HoffmanTactical lol ur awsome bro thanks for what u do for us its very much appreciated . I got some oveture easy nylon im going to try ...as well as the polymaker pa6 cf nylon.. i did have some ploymaker pa6cf before ..i was running nozzle temps at 285 to 290 and still getting layer adhesion issues within the layers itself. ..the oveture easy nylon warpped for me idk why...i have an ender 3 pro with microswiss hot end amd direct drive ...4.2.7 board ..marlin 2.1..dual z . Ruby tipped nozzle
I'm also on Odyssey can you make a video about how to get the Ender 3 S1 to Print use the polymaker CF12. It says under settings my Max is 260 Celsius and red lines and I've had to pull the CF12 line directly out of extruder when I saw smoke. I want to make essentialy one of thos polymer ARs but with AR22 kit and I need a ruger 1022 receiver my aluminum receiver broke last year I've tried making many at APL A&P LA plus none of them work I'm hoping for CF12. But I don't know enough to what the Flash or how to Flash what were which onto the end of 3 S1. There's so much out there for the purchase but nothing for the cruelty Ender 3 S1.
Also if you make a 1022 receiver put the bolt in w the Spring and the charger handle all that in it then and you'll see if it constricts to work perfect. I can't even get my extruder to print out the CF12 Was out an alarm going off.
What is the ideal nylon for lowers, orca parts, and HTss parts? I thought it was cf-pa12 but I am starting to think that if you can keep it dry that cf-pa6 is better AND it is cheaper
@@HoffmanTactical that's one I haven't tried yet. I tried ezPC + CF....no good. Tried Prusa PC+CF and it's still going so that as of now is pretty good since it's taken a good beating
Legendary. Just went and bought something from you to show support. I recommend drying it really good. It prints a lot nicer that way. Not a lot of tests out there on it so I am stoked to see you picking some up
Interesting data. I'm wondering how many samples you printed to test, as this would add some robustness to your data. Also curious about your thoughts on eSun's "upgraded" PA6-CF (15% infill). It's milled carbon fibre rather than the superior chopped (with longer filament strands) but any CF infill will help. Simply spraying a clear-coat layer after annealing will help with a) surface finish, and b) reduce water absorption
I've only been using three coupons per set. My results are consistent enough where I have high confidence in the result. But with other testing, such as layer adhesion, using more coupons is a good idea. I've tried one of the eSun CF Nylons, not sure if it was the upgraded one, after absorbing water it became rather weak.
Haven't tried their pa6-CF but their standard pa-CF is all but unusable. Could not get it dry enough to print well even dried it for several days at 75°C and still had oozing all over the place. And I suspect esun is using very cheap CF because I had several clogs and gave up with it after half a roll of headaches.
@@HoffmanTactical thanks for the reply! eSun's original CF nylon (came in 1KG spools) was terrible. I've read nothing but good things about their "Upgraded" (that's actually what they call it in their branding) CF nylon that only comes in 750g spools. I've yet to build the necessary enclosure around my Ender 3 S1 (Christmas holiday project) but hope to print with it early in the new year
@@rileyneufeld7001 I've heard similar things about their original CF nylon. Their original came in 1kg spools, whereas the 'upgraded' comes only in 750g spools. Just to confirm: did the one you use come in a 1kg spool? If so that's the original one
How does this young guy afford these incredibly expensive construction/testing equipment? Great financial support from his family or trust. For his on-video age, he should not have access to the very expensive construction and scientific instrument equipment. I’m NOT complaining, just wondering where the money comes from for the so “just right” video. I love this guy, just a skeptic in today’s world. I question everything. Please correct me to proof. BTW, I’m buying a 3D printer based on his experience. Keep up the good work.(let the criticism commence).
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Crazy thought for post processing; place print in vacuum chamber, pull vac, introduce impregnating oil, presurize. Idea from pressure treated lumber.
So many people have recommended this. Perhaps if we get enough likes in the comment he will test it!
@@greatestevar You will wanna create a high vacuum. The vacuum created by a bagging machine remains far above.
This is **GREAT** data! Thank you so much for doing this testing. I have always been a fan of C&C Kitchen for the mechanical testing he did, but I always felt he never really took it far enough or went into enough detail with it for my pew-pew purposes. Please keep doing these test!! Bravo, Sir!
Would love to see testing on PA612-CF from polymaker added to this.
Great video. Love to see the introduction and testing of more advanced engineering filaments to improve the performance of garden sprayers.
I manage the printers at my work, I use CF PA12 to make last second custom tooling. The stuff is pretty mechanically strong and very heat resistant. Just a pain to break/clean supports. Oh, yeah, you can also throw it on a milling machine 😉
Bambu PAHT-CF is one of my favorite filaments to print with. The prints are very smooth and shiny.
Great one. I like the new video format. I did a little creep testing with pa12-cf recently and the difference between annealed (80°C 6h) and raw is huge
Most interesting.
Please elaborate!
Interesting results. Thank you for making this video.
Everyone's favorite ziploc bag.🥰💪
Yes.
Thanks for the look at PA12! I use PA6-CF from Polymaker.
I would love to see you test the heat resistance of the pla+ when annealed. Other testers have shown a significant increase in temp resistance, so it would be good to see your results along with heat resistance changes for the pa12.
Nicely put together!
Honestly, I think this is one of my worst videos ever. I thought I had better B roll until I started editing. It was bad.
I've been printing my frames, receivers, magazines, and accessories in PolyMakers PA6-CF. It's supposedly stronger than the PA12-CF (according to them) especially post - moisture absorption. AFAIK the reason the PA12-CF is more expensive is because it's a much more stable filament.
After a year now, do you still use PolyMakers PA6-CF ? im looking debating on witch filament to use for a lower.
@MrBiggs-wu2kf yep. It's still my go-to. And works great. I now anneal my prints directly from the printer (6hrs+ at 200f).
How do u anneal it in the printer ? How can i do this with my bambu?
@@cheizaguirre5494 I don't, i throw it in my oven at 215f overnight
No one has done more for the community of 2a printing I appreciate the info . Can’t wait to see how this material holds up.
Although esun pla+ still going strong just put another 60 round through the build.
I’m sure I could melt it down but I have once every other month put 2-3 mags through it just for fun and have yet to have any issues although I do store it in the house haha I’m sure if I put it in my truck on summer day all day I might mess it up haha but for a safe gun that is good to go the super lower I am very confident in holding up.
It will be interesting though when the new upper is tested to such a extent.
Soon as I get off couple weeks after Christmas plan on maybe looking at what you got on website and building another build. Appreciate your work Brother.
God bless
Such great data, thanks for all the work! I'd also be curious how a CF-ASA like the one 3D X Tech makes would perform, as ASA is much more resistant to environmental factors but not as strong.
I have some I've done impact testing with, was not too impressed.
Engineering comment on carbon-fiber nylon composites. For most composites of this type, the carbon fiber carries the load and provide stiffness. The nylon distributes the load between the carbon fibers and provides toughness compared to the brittle carbon fiber.
This is why wet nylon matters much less in a composite part than a nylon only part. Nylon with higher moisture content is actually tougher and the fact that it is softer matters less because the carbon is carrying the structural load. This holds true until the nylon becomes so soft that you start to get fiber pullout and adhesion failures. In some ways wet nylon is better at doing its job in the composite than dry.
That said, the actual carbon fiber lengths in these filaments are likely very short so the nylon is doing a lot more work. When printing with them for structural applications, I would expect the fibers to be roughly aligned with print direction as well. Across the layer lines, they may perform much more like nylon than a composite.
I think the short fibers negate a lot of this, as you said. With high fiber content Nylons I think this is the case, such as the PA6. But with lower fiber Nylons the stiffness of the base filament is still very important.
qidi tech pa-12 is amazing
Hwoffman! Have you tried other compounds for annealing? Like WD-40? Are the oil annealed parts greasy and slippery?
No. Though WD-40 would be interesting. The parts in this test that has been exposed to oil where completely dry afterwards, no surface oil.
WD-40 is a oil detergent, it may disolve the nylon. I'd say PAG or non detergent SAE30 would be best bet.
Great stuff!
Thanks man, i'll def see you on Odysee
Instead of annealing in oil, try brushing dry parts with uv resin and curing with uv light, sealing parts and preventing them from absorbing moisture.
I've tried this method with esun carbon fiber nylon and it works pretty well.
Great video! Can't wait to see creep tests!
I wonder, according to polymaker's datasheets the PA6 nylon that has been moisture conditioned is stiffer, stronger, and tougher in every metric than even dried pa12. The youngs modulus of wet pa6 is 170-185% higher and the bending modulus is 180-190% higher than dry/ moist pa12 respectively. So while pa6 does lose strength and stiffness (while gaining impact resistance) from moisture conditioning, is it even a concern if it ends up stronger/ stiffer/ more impact resistant than pa12 ever was?
Surface finish aside, is pa6 not still the more technically capable (and cheaper) of the two?
I need to test the PA6 again, and see if this is really true. My testing results have not been consistent with those from Polymaker. But I do agree with you, that the higher carbon content PA6 is still a good option. Especially considering the higher temp resistance. Layer adhesion is an unknown at this point still, but will also be part of the equation.
And watching this test of polymaker's nylon filaments, pa6 performs better with creep under load and torque. Very interesting, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
th-cam.com/video/cQb-hbr1KYY/w-d-xo.html
I have a bunch of Hoffman lowers in polymaker pa6 and they have been holding up great in hot humid summer and cold dry winter here in Indiana. I anneal them at 175f for 6-12 hours. I usually put them in the oven or filament dryer overnight and get them out when I wake up. I'm curious to see Hoffman's data as his testing is much more scientific than mine, but I've had great results and its a bit cheaper than the pa12
@Hoffman Tactical Love your testing man. It's something truly lacking in this community. I'd love to see ya test prusament pa11 and bambu lab pa-cf as well. The bambu lab filament is a mixture between pa6 and pa12. Heard great things about both.
@@HoffmanTactical Love all your work and all the testing you do! Can't wait for the orca release. Keep being awesome!
Just got my fiberlogy pa12CF15 going to probably need to upgrade my hotend heatsink fan to not get any heat creep printing in a warm chamber. I do see they make a 5% carbon version and would definitely have chosen that one but they don't seem to have any available in the U.S.
Yes. I actually ordered a roll of the 5% a while back from eastern Europe, but looks like it never got through! How is it for warping?
@@HoffmanTactical Haven't tried a print yet I will dry it thoroughly and let you know.
@@HoffmanTactical Just did some flow calibration cubes and already having some bed adhesion issues. Any ideas how to alleviate this? Tried getting a really squished slow first layer on 85°C glue stick and it has almost no adhesion. May have to bump my temps even more since fiberlogy recommends 90-110°C bed temps.
So I just waited an almost two days for theSL- 15 I used it a Creality filment dryer on my ender 3 S1 pro with a harden steel nozzle at 280 nozzle temps 50c bed temp it was ploymide PA6-CF . My first time using this filament .. ran the dryer it while printing use painters tape on the bed for better adhesion minimal warping … so I attach the new upper to it after printing… an left it on . Then I wasn’t paying attention and knocked it over on to the carpet and crack my finished print and now I’m back at square one what can I do to prevent this again .. I wanted it for the heat resistance but it cracked on the first drop it took .. please I need suggestions only have enough to print one more lower thanks
My filament dryer only goes to 70c… am I doing anything useful if I put a nylon print in there for a few hours?
I think so.
My thought would be lower temp just needs more time to achieve the same thing as higher temp, for the most part.
@@MartinMcbride-xu2dn To some degree, yes. A higher temp will take less time to heat the part to the needed temperature. But there is still some minimum you need to reach. I assume that's 80 C. But it may be lower.
Signal
How long does this PA-12 last when making a super safety ?
i dont have to worry about moisture here in utah haha
hi i love your content and its definitely gotten me interested in wanting to try printing something but i am a little concerned about the strength and durability of filament printing .im an industrial designer and was wondering if it might not be better to 3d print parts and then make silicone molds of the 3d prints for resin casting, maybe even mix in steel wool or carbon fiber into the liquid casting resin for added strength. im wondering if any of the high end engineering or tool making casting resins might be superior to any of the 3d printer filaments? ...i was going to reach out to my supplier and get the specs of some of the casting resins to see if they are indeed superior to direct 3d printing but im not sure what numbers im trying to beat. what is the strongest 3d printing filament in your opinion and do you happen to have a rough tensile strengh so i have a reference to try and beat? urethane casting resin might be interesting too because while its stiff, it has a little bit of stretch so it will be less likely to crack....anyway, if you can give me a tensile strength to try and beat i would appreciate it...thanks
Urethane casting is a great process when needed (I've used it for vacuum parts), but it is far more involved and difficult than simply printing the part, which is why I focus on direct printing.
considering it's a year ago, did you in the meantime do any creep tests for the PA12-CF before and after annealing?
I've done some. After annealing is much better, but still has a little creep. Would be OK for Glock frames, and maybe lowers. But too much for the Orca due to the area around the clips.
What's the difference between the heat deflection temperature and the glass transition temperature? Because the glass transition temp is listed as lower than that of the Polymaker PLA Pro. Maybe that's the number we should be looking at?
Exactly. Creep above the HDT is my concern.
So over all i think the question still stands and your opinion matterz ...WHAT IS THE BEST FILAMENT ????
I don't know.
@@HoffmanTactical lol ur awsome bro thanks for what u do for us its very much appreciated . I got some oveture easy nylon im going to try ...as well as the polymaker pa6 cf nylon.. i did have some ploymaker pa6cf before ..i was running nozzle temps at 285 to 290 and still getting layer adhesion issues within the layers itself. ..the oveture easy nylon warpped for me idk why...i have an ender 3 pro with microswiss hot end amd direct drive ...4.2.7 board ..marlin 2.1..dual z . Ruby tipped nozzle
This stuff sounds great for handguards…
I'm also on Odyssey can you make a video about how to get the Ender 3 S1 to Print use the polymaker CF12. It says under settings my Max is 260 Celsius and red lines and I've had to pull the CF12 line directly out of extruder when I saw smoke. I want to make essentialy one of thos polymer ARs but with AR22 kit and I need a ruger 1022 receiver my aluminum receiver broke last year I've tried making many at APL A&P LA plus none of them work I'm hoping for CF12. But I don't know enough to what the Flash or how to Flash what were which onto the end of 3 S1. There's so much out there for the purchase but nothing for the cruelty Ender 3 S1.
Also if you make a 1022 receiver put the bolt in w the Spring and the charger handle all that in it then and you'll see if it constricts to work perfect. I can't even get my extruder to print out the CF12 Was out an alarm going off.
What is the ideal nylon for lowers, orca parts, and HTss parts?
I thought it was cf-pa12 but I am starting to think that if you can keep it dry that cf-pa6 is better AND it is cheaper
Been evaluating the PET-CF.
@@HoffmanTactical given the typical price difference, would you recommend cfpa6, cfpa12, or gf-pa?
What do you think about PA+GF filament for........?
COEX GF-Nylon is the only one I've really found to have merit.
@@HoffmanTactical that's one I haven't tried yet. I tried ezPC + CF....no good. Tried Prusa PC+CF and it's still going so that as of now is pretty good since it's taken a good beating
Which one gives the best surface finish?
PA12-CF does have a really nice surface.
i can not find a vid on the affects of gun oil on common matierals used im hoping my pla plus dosent fly apart one day from the oil
Not a huge amount of testing in that area. But I have never had an issue with PLA and oil, so probably good.
@@HoffmanTactical I haven't either but was just kind of throwing out a video idea Thank you for the response
Have you ever tested the Priline CF PC from Amazon? ~$50 a KG is really enticing
I bought some, it's on the way.
Legendary. Just went and bought something from you to show support. I recommend drying it really good. It prints a lot nicer that way. Not a lot of tests out there on it so I am stoked to see you picking some up
have you tried the esun cf-pa?
Not personally, but I've tested samples. One of the least stiff filled Nylons I've tested.
All in all wouldn’t you say PA 12 is a much better filament than pla pro for garden sprayers?
Because of creep concerns, I could not say that yet. But I have had very good results.
Interesting data. I'm wondering how many samples you printed to test, as this would add some robustness to your data.
Also curious about your thoughts on eSun's "upgraded" PA6-CF (15% infill). It's milled carbon fibre rather than the superior chopped (with longer filament strands) but any CF infill will help. Simply spraying a clear-coat layer after annealing will help with a) surface finish, and b) reduce water absorption
I've only been using three coupons per set. My results are consistent enough where I have high confidence in the result. But with other testing, such as layer adhesion, using more coupons is a good idea. I've tried one of the eSun CF Nylons, not sure if it was the upgraded one, after absorbing water it became rather weak.
Haven't tried their pa6-CF but their standard pa-CF is all but unusable. Could not get it dry enough to print well even dried it for several days at 75°C and still had oozing all over the place. And I suspect esun is using very cheap CF because I had several clogs and gave up with it after half a roll of headaches.
@@HoffmanTactical thanks for the reply! eSun's original CF nylon (came in 1KG spools) was terrible. I've read nothing but good things about their "Upgraded" (that's actually what they call it in their branding) CF nylon that only comes in 750g spools.
I've yet to build the necessary enclosure around my Ender 3 S1 (Christmas holiday project) but hope to print with it early in the new year
@@rileyneufeld7001 I've heard similar things about their original CF nylon. Their original came in 1kg spools, whereas the 'upgraded' comes only in 750g spools. Just to confirm: did the one you use come in a 1kg spool? If so that's the original one
How does this young guy afford these incredibly expensive construction/testing equipment? Great financial support from his family or trust. For his on-video age, he should not have access to the very expensive construction and scientific instrument equipment. I’m NOT complaining, just wondering where the money comes from for the so “just right” video. I love this guy, just a skeptic in today’s world. I question everything. Please correct me to proof. BTW, I’m buying a 3D printer based on his experience. Keep up the good work.(let the criticism commence).
Well, to be honest, it's not that much money. Printers are cheap, and I built my own test equipment.
Foist