wil it be a forged jerryrig knife? Or just a normal? And do they come precoated in some resin? Like if i where to buy 1 do i have to buy my own resin to get all over it or is that included?
@@dispositivosdesalomao7874Hey man you may have harmless intentions but they definitely do not like having their address known and have things sent to them.
I LOVE the fact that you started super strong and immediately jumped ship when you ran out of precut fibers, and just started sticking random shop junk in the composite. That's exactly how all my projects go; ambitious, logically designed, and completely randomly assembled depending on my level of motivation.
In the "High End" Cycling world (specifically by Trek Bicycles) it has been called "OCLV", or Optimum Compaction, Low Void. We always called it "Optimum Cracking Low Value" as it had a far higher failure rate than a standard weave.
We can all feel that pain. After all, who doesn't remember the first time they had to rework a forged HSRP (Ham-Sandwich-Reinforced-Plastic) composite?
The „HSRP“ was definitely up there, but the 10mm socket had me nearly throw up. I once found one in the concrete of a pedestrian bridges hollow body… And there weren’t even any 10mm bolts anywhere on that bridge…
@@marscruza lot of people forget that part of the carbon-resin-synergic regurgitation ratio, then their forged part just ends up being rather insipid.
Aerospace engineering student here - that 'transition' piece in front of the vertical stabilizer is not for drag reduction, it is for stability in a stall-spin scenario, or rather, it prevents a stall spin from developing. Cars obviously don't have aerodynamic stalls, but it adds area to your vertical stabilizer so it will help you track straighter. And it looks cool!
Cars may not have stalls, but they do have spins. Its good to know he'll have a better chance of recovery if he starts spinning while driving at 100mph+.
'Printed it 0.7% bigger'. My Uncle used to hand sculpt sand cast masters. He said it took many revisions to the mold to get the final dimensions correct for the same reason. When you/Matt said 'printed it 7/10s of 1% bigger I just imagined the amount tme and work that kind of adjustment used to take. Such a cool time to be alive.
This is like trying to mould a cube. Some plastics naturally consolidate after moulding and don't make good sharp edges. Sometimes the cube mould has to be more acute and sharp pinched at the edges and corners and by the time it comes out the cube is a simple 90⁰ all round, not that you would have guessed from the mould.
Oh man... I remember listening to it and it sounding strange, but didn't figure out why until now. To be fair, Matt's videos always sound strange so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.
Forged is stronged for complex shapes that you dont have a custom weaved mat for. The chopped fiber soup gives a random layout that helps prevent weak points caused by poor weave alignment in the mat with complex geometries. You could layer multiple standard weave mats in the correct orientation for each section of part, but that adds weight and thickness for the overlaps. You can also make custom weaves so that it aligns with the part geometry, but that adds a lot of cost and complexity.
The easiest, fastest, best, and cheapest solution for this is to instead CNC aluminum (or magnesium). But carbon fiber is seen as a "fix all" so shit like this exists. I have never once even thought about making a forged carbon fiber part.
@@nicktune1219To play devil's advocate here, there are some cases where subtractive manufacturing won't cut it (ba dum tsh). It's possible that other design requirements rule out aluminum.
I have 45 years working with composites, and I have to say this was just brilliant, a perfect example of "fuck about and find out". Brilliant. The part looked totally acceptable in a Picasso kind of way.
If it was dried first, then sure. But moisture doesn't work well in this application. Plus the ham is greasy, that's bad also. So, it just doesn't work.
A Mike Patey video on his "Scrappy" bush plane aircraft build in carbon fibre showed fibreglass being used between metal components and the carbon fibre to prevent corrosion - food for thought. Mike Patey builds awesome race planes and other aircraft projects. Very gifted individual.
My old VP of engineering was a smart dude. We were ME/EE/FW engineers for hire and had to design things fast and reliably. He said, to be confident in your design you should have at least one of these: 1. Experimental proof that it works (TIW) 2. Robust simulation TIW 3. An expert says TIW and why 4. Someone else who actually researched it does it that same way. 5. If it’s fucked you can easily pivot to something else that works (but is probably more expensive) So your stabilizer transition thing is legit under article 4!
@shred1894 I worked for schooner creek boatworks the customer for a boat we were building named the boat after his grandmother "Maggie Brown" and wanted her ashes put into the boat somewhere so my boss had one of the guys hollow out behind where our bronze schooner creek badge was going and mix the ashes with epoxy and fill the void with it.
@@samuelb6960 Ah, I didn't expect a reply so quickly and I didn't have a beer to crack open. But that's a much better but less entertaining story than I expected.
'Engineered wood' includes a lot more than just OSB, MDF and chipboard. Plywood, LVL (Laminated Veneer Lumber'), Blockboard, CLT ( Cross Laminated Timber), fancy finger-jointed window frames, Glulam beams. It may be kind of crummy at the bottom end (actually OSB is generally amazing) but the nice stuff really is engineered quite a lot and has impressive characteristics. But well done on the silliness of filling your forged part with random crap. Classic.
Engineering is about optimising. Optimising for performance, for durability, for cost, for ease of use, etc... Sometimes one of the optimisation factors is humour...
Those intermediaries are, if I remember correctly, actually pretty much an extension to the vertical stabilizer. Early P-51D's had issues with yaw stability due to transitioning from a razorback design to a flush bubble canopy, so later variants would extend the base of the vertical stabilizer to regain it.
I’ve found that wetting the fibres out by mixing them in resin before inserting them into the mould is pretty much essential to achieve a full wet out on larger components
buddy, he added a ham sandwich and pointed out how cheap & disposable "forged" carbon fiber is. you've already put way too much engineering in the first 10 words of this comment than Matt has done on this entire project. use your expertise for good, not for TH-cam commenting. or don't. do whatever. i'm not your mother.
@@tophatvideosinc.5858He wouldn't have had the pinholes if he'd premixed it, so "turned out just fine" is a bit of a stretch here. Then again, honestly, given the structural loads involved in this, I'm sure this'll work just fine regardless.
@@rocketsurgeon11except you want the centre of mass ahead of the centre of aerodynamic pressure for high speed stability. Which is useful for land speed record cars.
1:11 It keeps the air attaches to the rudder at high yaw angles, like a LERX. The high sweep virtually decreases the Angle of Attack to the incoming airflow, lowering the chances of stall. At very high angles, it may even generate a vortex, with similar positive effects. Structurally, it increases the contact area with the fuselage, securing the rudder in its place. As for forged carbon, it was conceived to eliminate the manual labor involved in normal carbon fiber manufacturing, lowering its cost. It's called "forged" because it supposed to be pressed on the mold by a press-forge, which would also cure it. It's a strong material, but not as strong as regular carbon fiber. But it surely looks shiny and glamorous.
I remember when forged Carbon Fiber came out on the Huracan Performante, a famous german car TH-cam went to italy and Lamborghini told him how great this stuff is. They said they started Development with Airbus or Boeing (can’t remember what which one) but they slipped out in the process. And I kept asking myself, if this stuff is so great, why did an airplane manufacturer abandon it? And why Are they only putting it in places where it only has visual effect but no mechanical load, if this stuff is so much better? As I learned more about composites in the following years I learned that forged carbon is only a marketing tool with no benefits for the customer. The only benefits Are for the company, they upsell their production scrap and it is easier than laying real composites in a way that it looks good. Whoever came up with that idea at Lamborghini to upsell a „failed“ experiment as something so great really should get a marketing medal.
The transition from the fuselage to the vertical tail has no aerodynamic advantage. A professor in engineering school told us it was the result of needing to increase the tail area for lateral stability after the initial design and/or test flights were performed. It was cheaper to add this structure than redesign the empennage completely. It may also allow a lower tail height to reduce roll coupling.
Thats also what I remember. In some twin engine planes (don't remember which) they added it after switching to more powerful engines, as it needed more longitudinal stability for engine-out scenarios. Also it does have the aerodynamic advantage of adding stability, I don't know if it has the advantage of reducing drag. Probably not as a longer chords (low aspect ratio) generally are less efficient in the lift to drag ratio. It might be structurally more stable as there is less of a lever arm and more area attached to the fuselage.
It can also act as a LERX for the Vstab and increase effectiveness / delay stall at high sideslip angles, particularly helpful for countering engine-out thrust asymmetry on multi-engine planes
Also a common method of adding needed stability after adding floats to a plane. The increased forward drag of the floats necessitates increasing the tail area.
@@paullowell3342Don't underestimate the degree to which looking cool has driven vertical stabilizer design, it's one of the few places on an aircraft you can play around and not have it bite you.
The bit of the tail that you call an "intermediate transition into the stabiliser" is to avoid completely stalling the fin at high angles of yaw. So its a safety measure for aircraft in cross winds and probably isn't very helpful on your car. But it does look very cool!
When you added the sandwiches, I actually saw it coming, I knew the moment I saw them that you were going to put them into the mold, however I didn't think you'd actually leave them there! I thought it was just going to be a gag, but nope, you actually let it cure like that. I really thought at that point you were going to fully commit, until it rotted and forced you to dig it out, but at least you didn't do that. Top notch content.
The only thing I can think you've done wrong in this build Matt is not re-forging the "good enough" sticker, but that "Superfast Matt" paint is pure freaking gold bro.
Matt, that small triangular piece in front of vertical stabilizer is a leading edge root extension. At high yaw angle it creates a stron Vortex that energies the airflow impacting the main stabilizer increasing the critical angle of attack thus preventing a stall and increasing directional stability. The same principle is used in many modern fighter jets in front of main wings - F18s etc. When pulling hard manouvers you can observe vortices shedding and condensation on the main wing. Notice how they are still attached to the wing even at extremely high angles of attack. It is important to encorporate this design into your land speed car as it will help you not spin ass forwards
No, that transition on the vertical is to add direction stability. The engine was made bigger requiring more vertical area and rather than redoing the surface they added the transition part. It's about cost, not better. Reusing exiting tooling. The aerospace industry uses fiberglass between the metal and carbon fiber to prevent galvanic corrosion. Simply wrap your aluminum spars with some 2 oz glass before putting in the mold.
I can speak from experience, it's the other way 'round. Future me (when he arrived) said, OMG I hurt, who beat the crap out of me? Oh ya, it was Past me, doing stupid shit...
That little extension to the vertical stabilizer was often added to increase directional stability in aircraft. You can see it being added in the later P-47 models. Also reduces drag!
The long transition-y bit is a leading-edge root extension, they help keep the wing (or tail) un-stalled at higher angles of attack. On fast jets they're usually on the wing and result in being able to do more top gun type things; on slow jets on the tail, I think they help prevent and recover from spins and other 'stalled tail' situations where there's a big apparent crosswind, which is potentially a very bad day. On the land speed car, I *hope* the plan is to not run it with a 90mph crosswind (seems sketchy but idk) so it should be less of an aerodynamic factor and more of a coolness-enhancing one; there might be some benefits to moving the tail's centre of pressure a bit lower. A short literature search has turned up nothing on the merits of a ham sandwich for yaw stability, but I hope the Ig Nobel committee is paying attention.
Yeah, the vertical tail root extension is specifically an anti-spin feature. AFAIK if you go into a spin it acts as a vortex generator to create vortex lift on one side of the tail to resist the spin.
The intermediate part before the rudder is a vortice generator exactly like a delta wing, it causes a large notice to generate at high angles which increases drag in the back of the aircraft and increases the stabilizing lift force by up to 80pct over just having the plain rudder alone. This was discovered around the time of WW2 but not understood at all until the 60s, by the 70s it was being built into the strakes of combat jets like the f-16 and f-18
Fun fact: the main reason most GA aircraft's vertical stabilizers aren't just rectangular in planform is that marketing found that tapered and swept vertical stabilizers sold better. For manufacturers like Mooney the tail profile is simply part of the brand image, like how BMW uses kidney grilles. All that being said, the dorsal fin does help keep the vertical stabilizer from stalling at high side slip angles.
Randomly found this video recommended. Started chuckling at the MrBeast bar going into the carbon fiber. Laughed my ass off at the ham sandwich. 10/10, you got a new subscriber.
Matt, from the bottom of my heart: THANK YOU! that hilarious video was just what i needed after this week! Edit: Okay, i didnt see the "superfastMATT" and the 10mill joke coming at the end, but boy, those were great :D
When restoring a 1969 Alfa Romeo Giulia I came across a half eaten pepper UNDER the original paint under the back seat cushion, so there is presedent for this kind of composite.
Granted I don't watch many channels in this category, but I'm honestly impressed by how much Matt actually gets done along whit the jokes/mucking about and in a 3 car garage
Hey Matt, the strake forward of the vertical stabilizer is for stability at high yaw angles. It generates a vortex that keeps the flow attached on the low pressure side. Source: Aerodynamics for naval aviators.
That actually looks pretty cool. I thought the forged carbon fiber was also supposed to be "thin" like normal carbon fiber, with either a foam core, no core (hollow) and/or bonded to a complimentary stiffening piece like car hoods.
Real vs fake: what commonly referred to as "forged carbon", and what is a type of carbon fiber SMC material (chopped carbon fiber) that are pressed with extremely high pressures in engineered steel die into shape as the high-temp resin sets as different. In his example and most of the others that Fake it "Fake Forged Carbon fiber " are just pressure molding the composites, emulating the process, only slightly. This is one step up from a carbon wrap, nice work!
So its more of a "forgery" forging than a "highly compressed molten metal" forged. I was also very intrigued to hear your 3D print shrank, because we've been experiencing the same thing at work. Every part that needs a dimension held was coming out tight.
What's particularly annoying about the term is that you can actually forge carbon fiber, using heat and/or compression molding to control and improve fiber alignment. The thing everyone calls "forged" carbon fiber is just basic chopped compression molding.
3d printed parts usually shrink a bit, although the exact amount is dependent on the material used. Some slicers can be configured to account for this, but in my experience, for critical tolerances it is usually easier to account for this shrinkage during modeling and test the most critical dimensions (for example friction fits for bearings) with some test prints. AFAIK, shrinkage is a common phenomenon in all plastics, and can even be much more severe in other processes (like injection molding).
The shrink (or expansion) depends on the material used, I think he's using ABS which shrinks/warps quite a bit during the print, but for example Silk PLA will foam the tiniest bit and if you flow calibrate it you'll usually end up with lower flow values than other PLAs. You can calibrate dimensions quite well otherwise, but worst case you print measure and adjust in the slicer settings.
My Uncle used to hand sculpt sand cast masters. He said it took many revisions to the mold to get the final dimensions correct for the same reason. When he said 'printed it 7/10s of 1% bigger I just imagined the amount tme and work that kind of adjustment used to take.
The ramp in front of the vertical stabiliser develops a vortex at the intersection which keeps the airflow attached at high angles of attack. I would guess that this is a good thing for a race car
For better or worse, this video was my introduction to your channel. The part of me that is meticulous to a fault hated so, so much of this... But the part of me that appreciates dry, cynical humor convinced the other part to go take a nap so I could be entertained. Then I saw the Viper... Very cool. It's the kind of crazy thing I'd have loved to do in a video game. Here, you've done it in real life. I'm now subscribed.
"Guessing is enough engineering for me" I have not laughed this hard in ages. I mamaged a lodge in Africa some years ago and fixing shit often had me thinking pretty much the same way. Stay awesome
I love your dry sort of humor and would like to have my posting glued inside one of your artworks. At last I like most the story from the pikes peak, allaround. my garage is also full of projects and I watch your videos, which are grat!, and hope to find some inspiration and motivation. hand
All of my garage/work shop walls and ceiling are OSB. I can hang a nail or a shelf anywhere I want without looking for a stud, and it's much more durable than drywall. Additionally, our utility/laundry room is a psuedo-tornado shelter with two layers of 3/4" OSB subflooring. Skim-coated it with a couple of thin coats of drywall mud and it looks just like sheetrock but WAY stronger. So, yay for forged wood...
From the sublime to the absurd. I found your channel this morning and have "wasted" the entire day. First I watched the Honda S600 playlist and now I'm cherry picking other videos on your channel. You have a new subscriber in me. My takeaway, besides bewilderment and amazement, is the pro tip "good enough."
My hope is that some day at some small event, someone will need a 10mm socket, no one will have one, and you'll be like "Grab the hammer, there's one embedded in my stablaizer fin", and when they're like "Why would you do that?" you can be like "Not so crazy after all, WAS IT?" And they'll have to admire your boyscout genius of being always prepared. Also half a preserved sandwich in case theyre hungry.
It hasn't gone through a smelter, furnace or fire so it CAN'T be forged. It's being heated and molded into shape, not forged. Forging starts by the item being within the furnace, smelter or fire. The very definition of the word tells us that it can't be forged. You're just melting it and putting it in mold, AKA molding. Not forging. forge verb make or shape (a metal object) by heating it in a fire or furnace and beating or hammering it. "he forged a great suit of black armor"
The biggest whiplash moment was following up the foam with a broken end mill. You had a legitimate case for light weighting an over engineered part, then immediately threw the heaviest shop metal in for giggles.
There are two kinds of creators on youtube - Those who would recast the entire part because the sandwich gag didn't pan out. And those who 'forge' ahead. I'm glad you're the latter!
I've watched countless videos from countless TH-cam channels. Some really great content. This is the first channel I might become a patreon member. Such great stuff
![DO NOT MAKE CARBON FIBER PARTS AT HOME (Making Charge Pipes) [DIY] with CR-Scan Lizard](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YNWu1-r5HGo/mqdefault.jpg)
I shall send you a new JerryRig knife.
can i get one too jerry
It's gonna end up who knows where.
wil it be a forged jerryrig knife? Or just a normal? And do they come precoated in some resin? Like if i where to buy 1 do i have to buy my own resin to get all over it or is that included?
hey jerry can i send you a pair of flipflops from brazil? matt got his pair already when me (and other guys) found his addres LOL
@@dispositivosdesalomao7874Hey man you may have harmless intentions but they definitely do not like having their address known and have things sent to them.
the ham sandwich was added to stick the vehicle to the ground, because as we all know, pigs don't fly
*_Genius._*
*clapping* gif
yes ham, the ultimate downforce generator, which also brings laminar flow somehow. Dont ask why...
Well, except occasionally starting on Tuesdays from eight in the evening to four in the morning on Wednesday.
What about porco rosso?
The best way to stop people saying "you did it wrong" is to intentionally do it like 40% wrong and give the design another safety factor of 2.5
😂
60% done right of a safety factor of 2.5 means at least done 150% times right. Sounds good to me
@@TastyGnocchi Or good enough...
Or there's the threat that your mean comment may become a part of the product, and you will be blamed if something goes wrong.
mean? ironic yes but not mean.
@@Universecentral1
I LOVE the fact that you started super strong and immediately jumped ship when you ran out of precut fibers, and just started sticking random shop junk in the composite. That's exactly how all my projects go; ambitious, logically designed, and completely randomly assembled depending on my level of motivation.
In the "High End" Cycling world (specifically by Trek Bicycles) it has been called "OCLV", or Optimum Compaction, Low Void. We always called it "Optimum Cracking Low Value" as it had a far higher failure rate than a standard weave.
i was in physical pain at some points, top notch youtube content
We can all feel that pain. After all, who doesn't remember the first time they had to rework a forged HSRP (Ham-Sandwich-Reinforced-Plastic) composite?
@@JGuraan We will all forever know the smell through our monitors, no matter if it's one or 100 years from now.
The „HSRP“ was definitely up there, but the 10mm socket had me nearly throw up. I once found one in the concrete of a pedestrian bridges hollow body… And there weren’t even any 10mm bolts anywhere on that bridge…
the fact that the incompetent comment ended up right next to the fucking ham sandwich that you had to dig out is just pure comedy 😂
Throw in some synergic regurgitation… just for the heck of it.
@@marscruza lot of people forget that part of the carbon-resin-synergic regurgitation ratio, then their forged part just ends up being rather insipid.
@@trailingrails9953
They don't teach that in school. You have to learn it from an old master or just drink too much on Friday night.
Aerospace engineering student here - that 'transition' piece in front of the vertical stabilizer is not for drag reduction, it is for stability in a stall-spin scenario, or rather, it prevents a stall spin from developing. Cars obviously don't have aerodynamic stalls, but it adds area to your vertical stabilizer so it will help you track straighter. And it looks cool!
It’s a vortex generator right?
@@Lynxtro the right term you want to search is dorsal fin
Cars may not have stalls, but they do have spins. Its good to know he'll have a better chance of recovery if he starts spinning while driving at 100mph+.
@@PatrickKniesler
*tiny breeze blows down from the mountain*
car: *lol*
Person who also ran a drag simulation in fusion360 here.
Can confirm it also reduces leading edge drag at the base.
I've never been more honored to replace a resin-infused ham sandwich
'Printed it 0.7% bigger'.
My Uncle used to hand sculpt sand cast masters. He said it took many revisions to the mold to get the final dimensions correct for the same reason. When you/Matt said 'printed it 7/10s of 1% bigger I just imagined the amount tme and work that kind of adjustment used to take. Such a cool time to be alive.
This is like trying to mould a cube. Some plastics naturally consolidate after moulding and don't make good sharp edges. Sometimes the cube mould has to be more acute and sharp pinched at the edges and corners and by the time it comes out the cube is a simple 90⁰ all round, not that you would have guessed from the mould.
Old f1 engines casting molds where hand made in wood too.
When i tought this could not get more unhinged, the sandwich came in...
And came right back out 😂
i thought for sure he was just pretending to put the sandwich in. Cue my head shaking when he opens the mold and there's the sandwich.
This feels like an April Fools video. I seriously hope you have something even more hilarious in store for April 1st!
I had to check the date and make sure I hadn't time skipped
Matt is probably still seething after reading your comment.
April 1st he is giving away the Viper, I'm calling it now. @tommasoimperio6474
Day drinking while working on projects! How I miss the good old days.
Watch his april 1st video be the most serious vid he's done to date. Would be fun
You created the composite of all composites: Resin, carbon, paper, rage, foam, steel, aluminum, and ham
And I believe some bread.
One could argue that the ham sandwich IS carbon composite in itself...
Strong "Just Rolled In" vibe to this episode, especially when replacing the ham sandwich with spray foam.
Yes.
Customer denied repairs and consumed the sandwich remains 😂
We hammered and pried then remembered it was screwed together . This is my new favorite channel
I felt the Matt/matte joke coming about 0.6 seconds before it landed, and I have concluded that is the optimal timing for maximum pun pain. Well done.
Oh man... I remember listening to it and it sounding strange, but didn't figure out why until now. To be fair, Matt's videos always sound strange so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.
"Guessing is enough engineering for me" is the motto of engineering students everywhere
Luckily it's not. Greetings from Germany. Engineer ofc
@@nebdaar*student
that and, "not good, but good enough"
As someone who didn't finish my engineering degree, I can say that engineering is useless. Just make it bigger, it will be fine.
The engineering degree makes your guessing pretty good ... usually.
Haminar flow
LOL!
Best Comment Award
Forged is stronged for complex shapes that you dont have a custom weaved mat for. The chopped fiber soup gives a random layout that helps prevent weak points caused by poor weave alignment in the mat with complex geometries. You could layer multiple standard weave mats in the correct orientation for each section of part, but that adds weight and thickness for the overlaps. You can also make custom weaves so that it aligns with the part geometry, but that adds a lot of cost and complexity.
The easiest, fastest, best, and cheapest solution for this is to instead CNC aluminum (or magnesium). But carbon fiber is seen as a "fix all" so shit like this exists. I have never once even thought about making a forged carbon fiber part.
@@nicktune1219To play devil's advocate here, there are some cases where subtractive manufacturing won't cut it (ba dum tsh). It's possible that other design requirements rule out aluminum.
@@SeanCMonahan I mean, even if machining can't produce the part by itself, cast-then-machine probably can.
You could make it forged, or make it better 😂
I have 45 years working with composites, and I have to say this was just brilliant, a perfect example of "fuck about and find out". Brilliant. The part looked totally acceptable in a Picasso kind of way.
genius matt, the ham sandwich will be cured in the salt flat, making it inert.
Have you eaten deli ham? That shit is cured af lol
Alongside a tasty meal.
@@playmaka2007A succulent chinese meal?
That superfast matte pun was top tier.
I half expected the ham sandwich to absorb the resin like a sponge and become the strongest section.
I've seen enough Evan and Katelyn DIY resin projects to know that _never_ works out to plan.
the bread on it's own would have (probably) worked, but the water in the ham stops the resin form curing.
If it was dried first, then sure. But moisture doesn't work well in this application. Plus the ham is greasy, that's bad also. So, it just doesn't work.
@@celeron55yeah he shoulda freeze dried it
@@TheRealAlpha2I'm already mentally preparing for resin pumpkin part 23 with shocking results lol
Actual composites engineer here. This is an absolutely fantastic use of my favorite "Fancy Plywood"
A Mike Patey video on his "Scrappy" bush plane aircraft build in carbon fibre showed fibreglass being used between metal components and the carbon fibre to prevent corrosion - food for thought. Mike Patey builds awesome race planes and other aircraft projects. Very gifted individual.
You're entirely right Fiberglass is often used to prevent Galvanic corrosion in composite materials
My old VP of engineering was a smart dude. We were ME/EE/FW engineers for hire and had to design things fast and reliably. He said, to be confident in your design you should have at least one of these:
1. Experimental proof that it works (TIW)
2. Robust simulation TIW
3. An expert says TIW and why
4. Someone else who actually researched it does it that same way.
5. If it’s fucked you can easily pivot to something else that works (but is probably more expensive)
So your stabilizer transition thing is legit under article 4!
TIL TIW
Not gonna lie, had to check to make sure it wasn’t April 1st half way through the video.
You would think a ham sandwich was the weirdest thing added to a layup, but I know of a boat with a guy's grandmother's ashes mixed into the resin.
I'd argue his Grandma (rip) is far more structurally sound than that ham sandwich.
I'm gonna need the story behind that boat my guy. I'll crack a beer before reading it.
@shred1894 I worked for schooner creek boatworks the customer for a boat we were building named the boat after his grandmother "Maggie Brown" and wanted her ashes put into the boat somewhere so my boss had one of the guys hollow out behind where our bronze schooner creek badge was going and mix the ashes with epoxy and fill the void with it.
You can sex toys with ashes mixed in the resin if you what to get really weird
@@samuelb6960 Ah, I didn't expect a reply so quickly and I didn't have a beer to crack open. But that's a much better but less entertaining story than I expected.
'Engineered wood' includes a lot more than just OSB, MDF and chipboard. Plywood, LVL (Laminated Veneer Lumber'), Blockboard, CLT ( Cross Laminated Timber), fancy finger-jointed window frames, Glulam beams. It may be kind of crummy at the bottom end (actually OSB is generally amazing) but the nice stuff really is engineered quite a lot and has impressive characteristics.
But well done on the silliness of filling your forged part with random crap. Classic.
it always makes me happy to see composites done right
The 10mm socket joke… so obvious but so, so good.
You sir are very good at what you do.
To be honest it will turn out to be the one you will always find.
"But that is a problem for future Matt" seems to be your favorite words!
You need to sell a sticker that says "This was a problem for Future Me"
I use that comment on a daily basis
His favorite, until he IS future Matt.
Either that or "Good Enough".
@@TheAngryConsumer Future Me always hates Past Me. Past Me can be a real dick.
Engineering is about optimising. Optimising for performance, for durability, for cost, for ease of use, etc...
Sometimes one of the optimisation factors is humour...
Nah, here we optimize how much and for long we use our brain.
@@Splarkszter So for exactly half a sentence then?
This sounds like something Data would say lmao
This is genuinely my favorite video you've made, this is commitment to the bit on a whole new level.
Those intermediaries are, if I remember correctly, actually pretty much an extension to the vertical stabilizer. Early P-51D's had issues with yaw stability due to transitioning from a razorback design to a flush bubble canopy, so later variants would extend the base of the vertical stabilizer to regain it.
I’ve found that wetting the fibres out by mixing them in resin before inserting them into the mould is pretty much essential to achieve a full wet out on larger components
Right, but how do you stop the sandwich from Absorbing all of your resin?
Its looks to me like that "essential" part was not only skipped, but turned out just fine. Ill trust matt the engineer on this one.
Too much information!
buddy, he added a ham sandwich and pointed out how cheap & disposable "forged" carbon fiber is. you've already put way too much engineering in the first 10 words of this comment than Matt has done on this entire project. use your expertise for good, not for TH-cam commenting. or don't. do whatever. i'm not your mother.
@@tophatvideosinc.5858He wouldn't have had the pinholes if he'd premixed it, so "turned out just fine" is a bit of a stretch here.
Then again, honestly, given the structural loads involved in this, I'm sure this'll work just fine regardless.
Adding tungsten to lightweight carbon - good thinking, Matt.
It's a land speed car...weight really isn't that big a deal, plus he needs to balance out the CG...or something. ;)
@@rocketsurgeon11 I'm starting to worry about Matt.
@@digbysirchickentf2315 I'm starting to worry about Future Matt.
@@shred1894 I'll go ahead and leave worrying about Future Matt to Future Me
@@rocketsurgeon11except you want the centre of mass ahead of the centre of aerodynamic pressure for high speed stability. Which is useful for land speed record cars.
You joke about engineered wood but plain OSB walls in the utility room is becoming trendy
no fucking way, doesn't it splinter and break apart unless it's covered?
Garages too.
Surely you can't be serious...
I am serious, and stop calling me Shirley. th-cam.com/video/_ZAyCbU3oU8/w-d-xo.html
Just sand an varnish them I wouldn't do it but some prefere
1:11
It keeps the air attaches to the rudder at high yaw angles, like a LERX.
The high sweep virtually decreases the Angle of Attack to the incoming airflow, lowering the chances of stall.
At very high angles, it may even generate a vortex, with similar positive effects.
Structurally, it increases the contact area with the fuselage, securing the rudder in its place.
As for forged carbon, it was conceived to eliminate the manual labor involved in normal carbon fiber manufacturing, lowering its cost. It's called "forged" because it supposed to be pressed on the mold by a press-forge, which would also cure it. It's a strong material, but not as strong as regular carbon fiber. But it surely looks shiny and glamorous.
I remember when forged Carbon Fiber came out on the Huracan Performante, a famous german car TH-cam went to italy and Lamborghini told him how great this stuff is. They said they started Development with Airbus or Boeing (can’t remember what which one) but they slipped out in the process. And I kept asking myself, if this stuff is so great, why did an airplane manufacturer abandon it? And why Are they only putting it in places where it only has visual effect but no mechanical load, if this stuff is so much better?
As I learned more about composites in the following years I learned that forged carbon is only a marketing tool with no benefits for the customer. The only benefits Are for the company, they upsell their production scrap and it is easier than laying real composites in a way that it looks good.
Whoever came up with that idea at Lamborghini to upsell a „failed“ experiment as something so great really should get a marketing medal.
The transition from the fuselage to the vertical tail has no aerodynamic advantage. A professor in engineering school told us it was the result of needing to increase the tail area for lateral stability after the initial design and/or test flights were performed. It was cheaper to add this structure than redesign the empennage completely. It may also allow a lower tail height to reduce roll coupling.
Thats also what I remember.
In some twin engine planes (don't remember which) they added it after switching to more powerful engines, as it needed more longitudinal stability for engine-out scenarios.
Also it does have the aerodynamic advantage of adding stability, I don't know if it has the advantage of reducing drag.
Probably not as a longer chords (low aspect ratio) generally are less efficient in the lift to drag ratio.
It might be structurally more stable as there is less of a lever arm and more area attached to the fuselage.
It can also act as a LERX for the Vstab and increase effectiveness / delay stall at high sideslip angles, particularly helpful for countering engine-out thrust asymmetry on multi-engine planes
Also a common method of adding needed stability after adding floats to a plane. The increased forward drag of the floats necessitates increasing the tail area.
That would make sense if it wasn’t also on new planes. Which it is
@@paullowell3342Don't underestimate the degree to which looking cool has driven vertical stabilizer design, it's one of the few places on an aircraft you can play around and not have it bite you.
"....Because it's hilarious"... yes, yes it is. You made me leak from my eyeballs.
It's ok my dude. Just let them purdy little cryballs leak if they want to. I won't think any less of you 😁
It’s like the part is an embodied shitpost to grief your haters. I loved it. It also looks pretty cool.
The bit of the tail that you call an "intermediate transition into the stabiliser" is to avoid completely stalling the fin at high angles of yaw. So its a safety measure for aircraft in cross winds and probably isn't very helpful on your car. But it does look very cool!
bloodhound lsr does have a fin that looks like that though so maybe there is some benifit I"m not aware of!
When you added the sandwiches, I actually saw it coming, I knew the moment I saw them that you were going to put them into the mold, however I didn't think you'd actually leave them there! I thought it was just going to be a gag, but nope, you actually let it cure like that. I really thought at that point you were going to fully commit, until it rotted and forced you to dig it out, but at least you didn't do that. Top notch content.
You sir, are a legend. I enjoy the subtle jokes, never ham fisted - they are the bread and butter of the channel.
These jokes are leaving me salty.
I think the sandwich was a little...er...."ham fisted" you might say
The only thing I can think you've done wrong in this build Matt is not re-forging the "good enough" sticker, but that "Superfast Matt" paint is pure freaking gold bro.
Matt, that small triangular piece in front of vertical stabilizer is a leading edge root extension. At high yaw angle it creates a stron Vortex that energies the airflow impacting the main stabilizer increasing the critical angle of attack thus preventing a stall and increasing directional stability.
The same principle is used in many modern fighter jets in front of main wings - F18s etc. When pulling hard manouvers you can observe vortices shedding and condensation on the main wing. Notice how they are still attached to the wing even at extremely high angles of attack.
It is important to encorporate this design into your land speed car as it will help you not spin ass forwards
I was looking for this comment, I was gonna say the same thing.
So he was absolutely right in the assesment that smart people did a giant load of math to figure out that it has to be there.
No, that transition on the vertical is to add direction stability. The engine was made bigger requiring more vertical area and rather than redoing the surface they added the transition part. It's about cost, not better. Reusing exiting tooling.
The aerospace industry uses fiberglass between the metal and carbon fiber to prevent galvanic corrosion. Simply wrap your aluminum spars with some 2 oz glass before putting in the mold.
this makes me happy. i always assumed that the weave pattern is what in part adds strength.
Dear lord, i feel bad for what that guy Future Matt will have to endure...
I have no idea what Future Matt has done to Present Matt, but i imagine it must have been terrible.
Fuck that guy. He always figures something out.
One of these days, future Matt is gonna beat the crap out of past Matt.
I can speak from experience, it's the other way 'round. Future me (when he arrived) said, OMG I hurt, who beat the crap out of me? Oh ya, it was Past me, doing stupid shit...
But current matt has left future matt an offering of a ham sandwich and a 10mm socket to stave the violence.
that 10mm socket caught me of guard
That's the part that you found surprising?
@@jasonb6570 You can expect anything surprising in life, but not to find a 10 mil
No one expects the 10mm socket, because it's never there when you need it.
Has anyone _not_ lost a 10mm socket?
That little extension to the vertical stabilizer was often added to increase directional stability in aircraft. You can see it being added in the later P-47 models.
Also reduces drag!
Honestly it looks super cool. Perfect ratio of junky and slick and areo. Now I want my bike look like this.
The long transition-y bit is a leading-edge root extension, they help keep the wing (or tail) un-stalled at higher angles of attack. On fast jets they're usually on the wing and result in being able to do more top gun type things; on slow jets on the tail, I think they help prevent and recover from spins and other 'stalled tail' situations where there's a big apparent crosswind, which is potentially a very bad day.
On the land speed car, I *hope* the plan is to not run it with a 90mph crosswind (seems sketchy but idk) so it should be less of an aerodynamic factor and more of a coolness-enhancing one; there might be some benefits to moving the tail's centre of pressure a bit lower.
A short literature search has turned up nothing on the merits of a ham sandwich for yaw stability, but I hope the Ig Nobel committee is paying attention.
Yeah, the vertical tail root extension is specifically an anti-spin feature. AFAIK if you go into a spin it acts as a vortex generator to create vortex lift on one side of the tail to resist the spin.
The intermediate part before the rudder is a vortice generator exactly like a delta wing, it causes a large notice to generate at high angles which increases drag in the back of the aircraft and increases the stabilizing lift force by up to 80pct over just having the plain rudder alone.
This was discovered around the time of WW2 but not understood at all until the 60s, by the 70s it was being built into the strakes of combat jets like the f-16 and f-18
Fun fact: the main reason most GA aircraft's vertical stabilizers aren't just rectangular in planform is that marketing found that tapered and swept vertical stabilizers sold better. For manufacturers like Mooney the tail profile is simply part of the brand image, like how BMW uses kidney grilles. All that being said, the dorsal fin does help keep the vertical stabilizer from stalling at high side slip angles.
1:10 this is called a strake, and yes, it's to reduce drag, but a different type of drag from where the wings meet the fuselage.
Randomly found this video recommended. Started chuckling at the MrBeast bar going into the carbon fiber. Laughed my ass off at the ham sandwich. 10/10, you got a new subscriber.
So strange no one remembers chocolate liquor
Aside from the sandwich, the other inclusions are actually really cool looking and i liked them a lot.
The sandwich brainfart. Were you trained at Boeing by any chance??
All hail the algorithm.
Matt, from the bottom of my heart: THANK YOU! that hilarious video was just what i needed after this week! Edit: Okay, i didnt see the "superfastMATT" and the 10mill joke coming at the end, but boy, those were great :D
The 10mm socket was a genius touch. I hope he finds a way to leave that visible in the final product.
When restoring a 1969 Alfa Romeo Giulia I came across a half eaten pepper UNDER the original paint under the back seat cushion, so there is presedent for this kind of composite.
"Guessing is enough engineering for me" God, I feel that so much!
Brilliant - you continue to be my favourite channel, by producing hilarious and off the wall content, yet somehow producing working vehicles...
Granted I don't watch many channels in this category, but I'm honestly impressed by how much Matt actually gets done along whit the jokes/mucking about and in a 3 car garage
Hey Matt, the strake forward of the vertical stabilizer is for stability at high yaw angles. It generates a vortex that keeps the flow attached on the low pressure side. Source: Aerodynamics for naval aviators.
That actually looks pretty cool.
I thought the forged carbon fiber was also supposed to be "thin" like normal carbon fiber, with either a foam core, no core (hollow) and/or bonded to a complimentary stiffening piece like car hoods.
This is thin compared to something less thin.
@@jeffmcdonald101 I mean, yeah. Thats true of everything, except maybe a sphere or cube.
Sandwich core
Real vs fake: what commonly referred to as "forged carbon", and what is a type of carbon fiber SMC material (chopped carbon fiber) that are pressed with extremely high pressures in engineered steel die into shape as the high-temp resin sets as different. In his example and most of the others that Fake it "Fake Forged Carbon fiber " are just pressure molding the composites, emulating the process, only slightly. This is one step up from a carbon wrap, nice work!
Matt your "close enough" method is absolutely hilarious.
Good enough. It's good enough. Come on.
I haven't laughed this hard at the internet in a long time. Thanks SuperfastMatt!
So its more of a "forgery" forging than a "highly compressed molten metal" forged.
I was also very intrigued to hear your 3D print shrank, because we've been experiencing the same thing at work. Every part that needs a dimension held was coming out tight.
What's particularly annoying about the term is that you can actually forge carbon fiber, using heat and/or compression molding to control and improve fiber alignment.
The thing everyone calls "forged" carbon fiber is just basic chopped compression molding.
3d printed parts usually shrink a bit, although the exact amount is dependent on the material used. Some slicers can be configured to account for this, but in my experience, for critical tolerances it is usually easier to account for this shrinkage during modeling and test the most critical dimensions (for example friction fits for bearings) with some test prints.
AFAIK, shrinkage is a common phenomenon in all plastics, and can even be much more severe in other processes (like injection molding).
The shrink (or expansion) depends on the material used, I think he's using ABS which shrinks/warps quite a bit during the print, but for example Silk PLA will foam the tiniest bit and if you flow calibrate it you'll usually end up with lower flow values than other PLAs. You can calibrate dimensions quite well otherwise, but worst case you print measure and adjust in the slicer settings.
My Uncle used to hand sculpt sand cast masters. He said it took many revisions to the mold to get the final dimensions correct for the same reason. When he said 'printed it 7/10s of 1% bigger I just imagined the amount tme and work that kind of adjustment used to take.
The ramp in front of the vertical stabiliser develops a vortex at the intersection which keeps the airflow attached at high angles of attack.
I would guess that this is a good thing for a race car
For better or worse, this video was my introduction to your channel. The part of me that is meticulous to a fault hated so, so much of this... But the part of me that appreciates dry, cynical humor convinced the other part to go take a nap so I could be entertained.
Then I saw the Viper... Very cool. It's the kind of crazy thing I'd have loved to do in a video game. Here, you've done it in real life. I'm now subscribed.
The superfast matt paint job is absolutely some of your best humor.
Oh... My... God....
His brilliance is almost frightening.
They should have sent a poet.
The end product looks really clean, hilarious!
"Guessing is enough engineering for me"
I have not laughed this hard in ages. I mamaged a lodge in Africa some years ago and fixing shit often had me thinking pretty much the same way.
Stay awesome
New sentence unlocked:
"Dig out the ham sandwich from the forged carbon fiber vertical stabilizer"
Important lesson learnt, dehumidify then degas ham sandwiches before adding them to resin composites.
I love your dry sort of humor and would like to have my posting glued inside one of your artworks. At last I like most the story from the pikes peak, allaround. my garage is also full of projects and I watch your videos, which are grat!, and hope to find some inspiration and motivation.
hand
All of my garage/work shop walls and ceiling are OSB. I can hang a nail or a shelf anywhere I want without looking for a stud, and it's much more durable than drywall. Additionally, our utility/laundry room is a psuedo-tornado shelter with two layers of 3/4" OSB subflooring. Skim-coated it with a couple of thin coats of drywall mud and it looks just like sheetrock but WAY stronger. So, yay for forged wood...
From the sublime to the absurd. I found your channel this morning and have "wasted" the entire day. First I watched the Honda S600 playlist and now I'm cherry picking other videos on your channel. You have a new subscriber in me. My takeaway, besides bewilderment and amazement, is the pro tip "good enough."
My hope is that some day at some small event, someone will need a 10mm socket, no one will have one, and you'll be like "Grab the hammer, there's one embedded in my stablaizer fin", and when they're like "Why would you do that?" you can be like "Not so crazy after all, WAS IT?" And they'll have to admire your boyscout genius of being always prepared. Also half a preserved sandwich in case theyre hungry.
Why you don't use pressure washer to remove food from your carbon fiber?
Damn, nearly 400k subscribers. Feels like it was yesterday when I discovered this channel.
thanks for sharing your discovery with all of us!
OSB accents sound epic. dumb people, please make this happen! for the memez!
it's already happened, I've seen it before
th-cam.com/video/BGX2a4Lb7BE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=sCFCJ-I0J_2iqgpm&t=142 not the worst thing I've ever seen, but I still wouldn't choose it, personally.
I don’t think I’ve ever subscribed to a channel after seeing only one video until today.
I have mixed feelings about this one 😂
But now it's definitely a composite stabiliser. And it's forged.
Absurd and bizarre and perfect.
Just like this comment 😂
I think Xyla Foxlin would be proud.
I was half expecting her to turn up halfway through the video and send Matt off to make coffee while she made the part properly.
100% also he added her merch to fix the problem and that is Certified Good Enough!
This is hilarious 😂
I can't explain how a 10mm socket I lost 15 years ago in a navy shipyard wound up in your piece but I'll pay shipping......
It hasn't gone through a smelter, furnace or fire so it CAN'T be forged. It's being heated and molded into shape, not forged. Forging starts by the item being within the furnace, smelter or fire. The very definition of the word tells us that it can't be forged. You're just melting it and putting it in mold, AKA molding. Not forging.
forge verb
make or shape (a metal object) by heating it in a fire or furnace and beating or hammering it.
"he forged a great suit of black armor"
The biggest whiplash moment was following up the foam with a broken end mill. You had a legitimate case for light weighting an over engineered part, then immediately threw the heaviest shop metal in for giggles.
9:51 Without seeing this video, you would not be able to convince me this was not a randomly generated sentence.
The fact that you're talking about cool stuff is almost a bonus. Your dry humour makes almost anything worth listening to.
putting a star wars alcolyte DVD in my "forged" carbon.
There are two kinds of creators on youtube -
Those who would recast the entire part because the sandwich gag didn't pan out.
And those who 'forge' ahead.
I'm glad you're the latter!
I've watched countless videos from countless TH-cam channels. Some really great content. This is the first channel I might become a patreon member. Such great stuff