Ultimate Nylon filament test - Polymaker CoPA vs PA6-GF vs PA6-CF vs PA12-CF
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ค. 2024
- Polymaker PolyMide filament line is great for many functional parts, but it is important to understand their possibilities and when to use them. The printability is great, the warp-free technology gives the possibility to use them on open printer, but using of a hardened nozzle and a filament dryer is recommended. Glass- or carbon fibers gives not only great mechanical properties to these PA materials, but also a great surface quality.
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Contents:
0:00 Introduction
2:50 CoPA 3D printing
6:33 PA6-GF 3D printing
9:36 PA6-CF 3D printing
11:06 Testing with timing belt
12:31 PA12-CF 3D printing
14:03 Before mechanical testing
15:30 Tensile (pulling) test
16:18 Layer adhesion test
17:33 Shear stress
18:15 Torque (twist) test
19:37 IZOD impact test
20:51 Temperature test
22:21 C-bending creep test
23:59 Screw (compression) test
25:44 New bending test
28:06 Results
31:23 Conclusion
#polymaker #nylon #3dprinting - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I'm pretty sure that even the manufacturer of this filament does not have this much data of their product! Thanks for your awesome work!
True
This channel is the best filament review and testing I've seen. Deserves much more traffic. 👏
Agree!
Agree. This is highly objective data here.
Definitely, one of the few TH-camr's that puts effort into legit testing.
Still the best channel for filament property information!
Thank you!
This is such an absurd amount of work. I've had a video like this in the making for almost a year....Thank you so much for posting and sharing the data. It's amazing to see how much the material properties of different nylon filaments can vary.
One more work I will have with these filaments, because I got several suggestions, that annealing will improve mechanical properties, especially less creeping.
@@MyTechFun I would love to see that!
I can never get enough temperature tests...and this video doesn't disappoint!
Excellent tests! I thought PA 12 was more heat resistant. Glad I watched this.
Agree, you found a really good niche. Insane work. Will recommend your channel for all Material tests. Keep up the good work!
This was hugely helpful. Thank you for all this work. PA6-CF is going to be a great substrate for some of our products.
Thanks for doing such thorough testing on these materials! The PA-6 fibrous materials are amazing for functional parts!
This is the most thorough test I think I've ever seen in my life.
Great video, really like the testing of less common filaments. Thanks for all the hard work
Thank you for taking the time to do all the testing you do saving us time and choices for future projects
Great job. It has been fun watching your progress over time. Definitely better than anything I could do. Learn so much.
Amazing information. The manufacturer should definitely be paying you for this.
I am glad, that you liked it. Nice suggestion for the payment, but I would like to stay independent. Sample products are enough to me.
Wonderful video! Thank you for your attention to detail and time to go through each test and the results. This video has been the best resource for understanding the actual performance difference between these filaments.
Thanks ! It really is Great to see real engineers at work.
Thank you for your tests!
Very very helpful data. Thankyou for taking the time to make this incredibly detailed video
Nice and consistent testing of interesting materials. Like it! 👌😁💯
This is so well done! Thank you!
Very interesting video. Thank you very much for sharing the comprehensive and scientific testing.
Thanks!
Amazing video! thank you so much for doing all this work. The new bending test is great in my opinion. ISO and ANSI should copy it for testing polymers haha
Thanks for this great review!
Brilliant video. Very informative thank you.
Wow! Thank you so for much for your effort, this video is just perfect
Dude I looooove your videos so much you literally have so much information that I am seeking!
Thank you!
I just found you. I've been looking at printing CF nylon. I really appreciate your testing methodology.
I still must test the annealing with these filaments, it could be very important.. soon...
This ist a really excellent Video with so much useful information, thank you very much for your work!!
Now you also got PA612-CF to test. 😅
Thanks for such useful information.
I have been printing in pa-6cf for the last two months or so. I have been absolutely thrilled with it's performance. I think the annealing process helps greatly with layer adhesion and tensile strength. If you try annealing it I think you'll be impressed.
A great idea for a follow up video would be doing the same test but anneal the parts and then compare results
Do you have any resource you can recommend to learn the annealing process for PA6-CF?
@@JulienStoeffler I just toss it in the oven at 190F for 8 hours after it cools down on the print bed. It made a piece that was strong enough to hold up four corners of my backyard gazebo. Make sure you let it cool down for an hour after you take it out of the oven.
@@benjaminmarquis6250 Thank you, I'll try that! Quick question if you don't mind: do the part deform at all? I have some projects that have tight dimensional tolerances and I'm afraid of annealing because of that.
@@JulienStoeffler it will deform some. I've seen experiments that show +/- .5% deformation in the x y and z axis sometimes in different directions at the same time. One thing I have heard of but have not tried is submerging the part in sand to hold the dimensions while it is baked.
Thank you for the test, really well done. One note, maybe have PLA as a comparison.
Similar PLA test comming soon (PLA vs PLA strongman) with same test objects.
Excellent job! Thanks a million
Saved me some $$$ on filaments to test. Thankyou!
Thank you, I am glad that you liked the video. I hope I will get soon their newest PA612-CF too for the testing.
Awesome content ..!! As always you are extremely thorough ... Thank You for sharing.. Cheers :)
Been using Esun PA-CF and it has made some good strong parts. Interested in trying polymaker glass filled nylon for something. Admittedly i have not annealed anything. Im scared of warping. Great video!
Another excellent video! I mostly stick with eSun filaments and have enjoyed your videos on those. I have a few spools of their ePA-CF which I was planning to use for some projects, but no one's done any testing on these from what I can see, so that would be my suggestion for a future video (along with their ePA12-CF, and ePAHT-CF for good comparison with the Polymaker filaments).
Great info, thanks for testing and sharing! Gives me confidence to continue using Polymide PA6-CF.
Regarding the timing belts: You cannot print those kind of parts with CF-Nylons. Nylon without fibers could work, but is still very stiff. Maybe usable with large pulleys, certainly not those tiny ones as they are found on printers for example.
thank you, great info!
Thank you, Engineer 😌
I am really impressed how good the bed adhesion is with Polymaker. I've also used satin sheet with this gluestick, and PA12 and PA6 warped like crazy from the bed. With Magigoo PA it was much better but finally with Prusa PA Sheet it is just fantastic.
Congratulations to Polymaker to make such easy to print filaments
I agree, with this testing I almost forgot how problematic is the warping of the regular nylon..
@@MyTechFun Also it is interesting that the bed is 50°C, unlike the one i used that you have to print between 90-110°C. I thought that it is because of higher glass transition temperature and that those with 50 degress would be worse in high temperatures. You prove me wrong with 200°C and nearly no warp 😅
19:56 this highlights a problem with your testing method. The back of the hammer is further away from the pivot point than the front, so there can be lots of friction if the sample didn't break off completely. This friction has nothing to do with impact strength, so will distort the results, as it did in the PA6-CF test here. To fix this I'd suggest to turn the hammer around, with the pointy end forward, and angle the head down at a 60-80 degree angle. This way there's only 1 contact point and no possibility of further friction.
fansastic, great job!
I like the new bending test but knowing the max load it can take is good as well, If we can have both that would be good. Over all, you do whats best.
Awesome video, Igor. Thank you for the updated spreadsheet on the Patreon page, very useful.
With respect to the new bending test, I like it. I would like to see a longer stabilization time on the higher loads so we can see where it levels off. That would add even more effort to your tests so I understand why you might not want to do that.
With respect to the torque test, I find the method adequate for me. I don't use printed bolts often, though I have done a few and 6 mm diameter is the smallest I go. So the test part diameter you use is a close enough approximation of the max torque I can apply. That is useful to know.
With respect to the screw creep torque test, I do see creep in my bolts on my functional parts, so this test is really educational and useful. How many perimeters, and at what line width, do you have around the hole? I am sure the hole wall thickness will affect the results. I try to have solid material under the washer or bolt head.
Many thanks for your work Igor.
Tom
Thank you Tom for supporting and for suggestions. Soon same testing with some PLA filaments (including new bending test, you will see soon, no need to wait more than 1 min)
When printing without fan you need to move the printhead away from the parts to let them cool down. I always print a cylinder in the corner of the bed thats the same height as the part and thats normally good enough for even small parts. Increasing the cooling just makes the part weaker.
That’s a super neat tip about adding a cylinder
Amazingly thorough tests. I wish you had printed them in higher temperature printers with enclosures, and printed with a higher nozzle pressure. Those have been key to my findings of ultimate strength. I am aware that they state to use a lower print bed, but I have achieved highest tensile strength and impact strength by printing in 60 degree enclosure with 90 degree print bed, 300c for PA6, 275c for PA12 or PA612. I do not use CoPA. I have printed approximately 100kg of Polyamides over the last few years with these settings, making hard use items.
great video!
Also, data for annealed parts would be interesting. I've read that many carbon fiber filaments don't suffer from significant shrinkage when annealed, but that it can significantly improve creep.
thanks a lot
Very nice for the vídeo you the best brother...
Great write up and video. I saw that Polymaker has a new PA612-CF filament in "beta" testing, curious how it stacks up against their current lineup.
Thx for informing me, after holidays I will contact them and ask if they want to send it for the testing.
A very nice review, a very small question, is the glue you use any kind of glue? Is the content different?
Very good effort. If you wouldve used a heated chamber, your results wouldve improved alot when it comes to layer adhesion.
hello Igor,
you have a lot of printing hours on your back, do you think it has any real benefits of changing the heatblock and the partfan on the Ender 3s1, if you never print faster than 70-80mm/s?
Fantastic review of the PolyMaker PA filaments - absolute gold! I would love to know the speed, retraction and bridge flow settings used in those tests - I have been printing with PolyMaker PA6-CF for some time and getting clean bridges and smooth surfaces (on dried filament on a Voron) has not been easy - but your temperature towers looked very clean first go.
Check those default settings in PrusaSlicer. Only as mentioned in the video, I reduced the part cooling.
Which settings excactly?@@MyTechFun
Great test, but don't expect me to eat your home made meals.
Seeing that oven test, makes me curious which one transfers heat the best(Carbon should do good but it is usually not contiguous and peppered randomly in the material) - use-case: a battery case that assists in removing internal heat to the outside.
excellent video, now we need a comparison with prusa PA11 CF and fiberlogy CPE
I just recieved a spool of Prusament PA11-CF, video probably in 2-3 weeks.. Not sure about Fiberlogy.
Really good news for the prusa filament, the CPE is by far my favourite filament, ft isood safe, high temp, and easy to print.
Thank you for your work 👍
@@chatroux399 Oh, yes, CPE HT, that test is in the progress. I am testing it exactly from the food safety aspect, since this filament can be boiled. I am waiting the bacterial test results from our partner university of Novi Sad and video will be finished. Only thing I don't like with CPE HT is weak layer adhesion on recommended printing temperatures.
@@MyTechFun Filamentum also has great technical filaments: CPE HG100, CPE CF, PC+ABS. They have a great tech support, and I've already talked to them about your channel :)
@@MyTechFun fantastic ! impatient to watch your video ! I only use it with my prusa with the prusa slicer profile and the layer adhesion is impressive
Could you give a walk through of your PrusaSlicer settings for these filaments? I'm not having any luck with PA6-CF or PA6-GF, they both come out looking like an over extruded mess.... Maybe I just need to dry them, but I've never had this much trouble with new filament before. The PA12 prints fine and so does the PA612.
Excellent in-depth review, I'm really impressed with the results from these filaments.The PA6-GF and PA6-CF were both outstanding performers. I'm going to give PA6-GF a try for its excellent price / performance ratio. Don't think I would will use PA12-CF in the near term given its price is very steep and the PA6 filaments were really stout performers.
Soon I will do another test with these filaments, because feedbacks says that strength is impruved with annealing. We will see soon..
@@MyTechFun pozdrav, jeste li uspjeli možda testirati ove materijale nakon procesa žarenja (annealing, ako sam dobro preveo)? Puno hvala i imate izvrstan kanal, najbolji testovi koje sam vidio do sada!
@@riba2233 not yet, I am waiting for Polymaker PA612CF, and then I can do a deeper testing of this filament, including the annealing (pišem na engleskom da bi i ostali razumjeli, pozdrav)
@@MyTechFun Great, thank you a lot :) (puno hvala i jos jednom svaka cast na detaljnom testiranju!)
bravo, also are we ad free moving forwards? either way congratulations! so PC is the overall best filament out there?
Yes, from Polymaker range PC max is my favorite. Then their odorless ABS.
i would be intrested to see comparison between polymaker pc-max prusa pcblend, or any other pcblends
If you support him on Patreon there's a spreadsheet that compares these 3 filaments side by side. If you don't want to support him, you can watch his videos. Polymax PC: th-cam.com/video/tmoWIxlXHGM/w-d-xo.html Polylite PC: th-cam.com/video/HMXTeuhShaA/w-d-xo.html PC Blend: th-cam.com/video/b5scr5Yuxe4/w-d-xo.html PC-CF: th-cam.com/video/sAkJbYNPCpo/w-d-xo.html
Please show us your solution for the y axis motor cooling on S1 Pro when you are done.
Ok. Soon, after I decide how to power it. Or from led power or exterrnal..
I wonder if you cannot extrude more filament or just have bigger line on line cross section. You test probes looks like underextruded on the curves. There is lack of filament in many cases. Like the way you test it but can you try to add more filament to it ?
I already tested flow rate effect to layer adhesion. Not sure how they should look like exactly, but my esteps are correct.
Which of these would you use for printing small drone propellers 0.6mm blade tip with base around 1.2mm I was planning on the PA6-gf but due to the small thin blade I am wondering if using PA6 or PA12 cf would be better? Blade are under Constant flexing pressure when used.
PA6 CF would be my choice
Who makes a good filament dryer available in USA?
Can you test all of polymakers pc filament? Includes pc pbt and pc abs and pc fr
I have some PC ABS here, but I don't have heated enclosure. If those 45-50°C will be enough, there will be a video and testing..
The timing belts in nylon needs to be humidified before bending. Dry nylon is very brittle, but after some time in ambient air it will become much less brittle. Think if regular zip-ties, new from the bag they can sometimes be brittle, but after only a few days in the opened bag the zip-ties are much stronger and will not break.
should also compare with the PPACF
Does it make any difference to strength on the small cross section areas if instead of increasing fan speed, you increase layer time with no fan?
The effect to layer adhesion is similar
@@MyTechFun interesting. I never seen anyone test.
Similarly I have heard a few people saying fast printing is always weaker, but I don't think I have seen anyone test it.
@@lolzlarkin3059 Not an expert, but part cooling and slowing down print speed both reduce the temperature that the filament has when the next layer is applied. This reduce how well the two layers stick to another. I imagine part cooling will have a stronger effect though, because it also cools the current layer, so it has less time to stick to the bottom one. But you're basically trying to maximise the temperature of the filament until you get undesirable deformation. I think it would be worth experiencing without fan and with reducing the print speed only, or making a pause between layer (with cura's "minimum layer time' for exampel)
Polymaker claim that best performance for these filaments is achieved only after annealing.
I wonder if the results would have changed if the parts were annealed (I'm particularly interested in the CO-PA creep test)
Annealing test is in my to-do list too.
Not finished with the video yet but you can't use the timing belt right off the plate. Need to soak it in water overnight first
If I soak it, I know it will be flexible and soft. But after it dries again, the same problem is back..
@@MyTechFun it shouldn't dry out unless you're using it in a dessicating environment (at least from what I've found).
Thank you for the wonderful experiments! Love the channel.
Where's paht-cf come in?
The tests are very useful, however one test for nylon/PA is missing. Nylon is often used to make washers and bushes, and that is because it has slippery surface- self lubricating. I can imagine a test which has the object under test as a bush, and a bolt is fastened through the bush and a metal lever is sandwiched between, and bolt is tightened to a specified torque. then the torque required to move the lever is measured. a lower value is better.
Take the test further to move the lever through iterations of movement and see how much wear occurs on the object under test.
Have you done comparison on PC vs PA (gf/cf) ?
Yes, in separate video, but most of the results are comparable.
@@MyTechFun thanks!
Hello. What size nozzle for pa6 cf?
I used 0,4mm , no problems so far
For the timing belt, CoPA will be much more flexible after hydrating and annealing in boiling water for an hour
But when it dries, it would again become brittle.
That’s a fair point. Maybe you mentioned this, but I wasn’t clear from the video if you tested the timing belt in its dry state immediately after printing or if it had a few days to reach equilibrium with the ambient environment. In my own tests with CoPA the material properties were very different in dry vs wet states
Maybe you could do a video examining how material properties can change after printing?
PA is sensitive to moisture
Polymaker recommends annealing their PA and PC products
There are a few annealable PLAs on the market with impressive impact and heat deflection claims, for example PLA PRO from 3dfuel and Volcano from formfutura
the pa6 component is drastically weakened by moisture. (hygromechanik)
I am a bit surprised that the PA12 creeped worse than the PA6, I have heard different stories
I don't believe to stories, that's why I like to test things. And more than one test showed similar results.
@@MyTechFun I have no experience with the Polamide lineup, I always used ePA-CF from esun, so I can't say anything against your results.
@@runklestiltskin_2407 I am thinking about EPA cf from esun can you tell me more about it like strength?, surface quality? ect.
I think the price of the esun epa cf is reasonable, there are other filaments that I would like to use but are unavailable in Australia or just really expensive.
@@Sillysillylittleman Hi, I have no scientific data. I like the ePA-CF from esun, it has Nylon typical layer adhesion and is way stiffer then Nylon without CF.
I use the material for printer parts, such as berd-air nozzles and rc parts like spoilers, it creeps less than Extrudr's PLA CF crap, that I used before and less thea resin parts printed with Syraja tech blue.
It needs to be dried out of the box, though, so an ofen 80C (be careful with pizza ofens) or a dehydrator 70C are a must. It needs an enclosure, if you want to print big parts, bigger than a benchy, It needs a hot bed 100C and above and an all metal hotend. It's abrasive, so a ruby nozzle, or hardened nozzle is also a must have.
I print this material on sanded FR4 that's the fire retardant version of G10 (fibre glass in resin) it's possible to get similar adhesion on PEI smooth.
You should not test the nylon belts right off the bed, leave them to absorb moisture first or soak them in water to speed it up. As nylon absorbs moisture it becomes much more flexible. You are testing it in its driest state which is not really indicative of it in use unless you use it in a very dry environment.
The way things break show your printing temperature was not high enough for optimal layer adhesion. With higher printing temperatures you would get even stronger parts.
Can someone tell me what he said….?
Thanks!
Thank You Mark, I am glad that you like my work.