Bambu Lab Carbon Fiber Filaments Comparison v Jaya PLA+, Prusa PETG, eSun PA-CF
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- Join me in this review as we put Bambu Lab's Carbon Fiber Filaments to the test. We'll be comparing PLA-CF, PETG-CF, PET-CF, and PAHT-CF against each other and against popular filaments like Jayo PLA+, Prusa Prusament PETG, and eSUN PA-CF.
For this review, we've printed a Catapult Card and a Print in Place Vice Grips using the default profiles and settings on the Bambu Lab Carbon X1. We'll be examining each print closely and giving a final verdict on each filament.
This video is a dive into the world of 3D printing with Bambu Lab filaments, clocking in at 42 minutes. We've condensed over 6 hours of footage to bring you the most relevant and important information. Stay tuned for follow-up videos where we'll delve into more details about printing and testing each filament.
Printables used in this video:
Catapult Card by Adam-M: www.printables.com/model/2116...
Print in Place Vice Grips by Adam Cook: www.printables.com/model/5112...
00:00 Intro
01:02 Overview of test Prints
01:36 PLA+ (Jayo)
03:37 PETG (Prusa)
05:47 PLA-CF (Bambu Lab)
10:56 PETG-CF (Bambu Lab)
15:27 The Engineering Filaments
16:11 PET-CF (Bambu Lab)
22:05 PAHT-CF (Bambu Lab)
27:16 PA-CF (eSUN)
32:07 Overview
40:33 Final Thoughts & Recommendations.
#bambulab #bambulabX1 #CarbonFiberFilament #3DPrinting #PLA-CF #PETG-CF #PET-CF #PAHT-CF #JayoPLA+ #PrusaPrusamentPETG #eSUNPA-CF #BambuLabsX1Carbon #3DPrinterReview #FilamentReview #3DPrintingMaterial #CarbonFiber3DPrinting #3DPrintingTips #3DPrintingGuide #BambuLabReview #3DPrintingComparison #3DPrintTest - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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So you're pretty much only measuring your slicing settings, and everything else is completely subjective. You've put so much money and effort into the video, so it's a shame there's no hard facts or measurements of anything.
I can't even make myself finish the video, because it's clearly not comparing CF filaments in any meaningful way, so I feel ripped off by the invalid title. I really wanted to see some CF comparisons, especially for petg-cf!
@marcus3d thank you for the feedback. Sorry you feel ripped off by the title, maybe you can elaborate on what you would like/expect to have seen to make it useful to you. The video is mainly a comparison of Bambu Lab Carbon filaments, using Bambu Lab profiles and settings, a Bambu Lab Printer, and their filaments with out of the box settings to see how they compare for anyone thinking of buying them. The other 3 filaments where just to have baselines. Its not engineering tests or scientific charts, its a user's experience using the recommended settings. All the engineering data is available on their website, so I didn't feel the need nor do I feel I have the expertise to test that data. But I am sure there is something I could add going forward if I do other filament reviews that would help. So I would be interested to know people opinions. Or maybe you are on a different level of 3D printing, in which case my videos may never be useful to you, and that is ok too. But I would at least like to take any input and try and make the videos better. I am not doing this just to waste my time and money, I want to help others like me in the 3D printing community if I can, and the more people I can help the better, helps justify the cost and time.
For the filaments that are supposed to be shiny but turned out not to be... I've found that printing them too fast causes this matte finish. A solution that works for me is to cut the print speed on the walls by 1/4 to 1/2 of the Bambu's default settings. This should also improve layer adhesion and make the prints stronger.
@EricLaspe that makes sense, will try that out with the PETG-CF. In fact by modifying the setting you will likely get better results all round, for this video I wanted to compare the ‘out of the box’ manufacture provided profiles experience. Thanks for sharing this tip.
Thank you for spending the time and effort in making this video comparison, a good guide on how each filament prints moving parts.
@Eaglehaslanded75 Thank you, really glad it was useful.
500 !! Thanks for sharing the Video. and Grats
@KRAVER_ thank you, and your comment just notified me 👍
I just love Bambu ABS. It’s quite “cheap” at 24.99/kg on refill. It’s sturdy enough for mechanical parts and really easy to print with, and this at high speed. Some don’t like the smell of ABS but with a x1c, most of that smell will be filtered away. It’s my go to filament at the moment 😍
@MrX-co5de I haven't tried BL ABS, but I did go through a phase of using Jayo ABS because I had a box of them. I did fin d there was some strong odor from that one with the CX1 printer, but that may be because my room is quite small and airflow is a problem. But generally ok, but I am looking at ASA as a replacement. See how it goes but initial impressions is its great to work with. Might grab some BL ABS just to see how it goes.
Nicely done, keep up.🎉
@mikecoman23 Thank you, I will do. 👍
Good overview, thanks. I'm surprised you had so maby issues with esun's PA-CF. Mine printed well with only minor tweaks. I made sure to dry it well first. I haven't printed anything too large yet though so maybe issues will turn up with longer print times.
The Bambu labs PET-CF looks really interesting though, especially the high temp resistance and additional stiffness over PA-CF. Sounds like Bowden extruders might have trouble though.
@naasking Yes, I feel I need to go back and re-visit the eSun PA-CF filament in a video of its own. The main issues on the dried filament was with bed adhesion, and indeed I think it needed more drying, at a higher temp, and it needed custom tuning on the settings. I dried it in a EIBOS dryer using settings for PA, which is about 45-60 degrees C. I really wanted that filament to shine because its great value, it also claims high CF percentage volume. In the case where you have value like that its worth tuning your settings, but for the purpose of this review I wanted to keep the default manufacture profiles/settings, for the BL Printer, to keep the comparison fair.
Re the PET-CF, its extremely stiff and brittle as a roll of filament, pushing or pulling the filament should not be an issue, but sharp bends in the feeder tubes could cause it to snap, which is why it cannot be used in the AMS. Its also VERY abrasive as a filament and will likely damage PTFE tubing very quickly.
@@T8Maker Nylon is supposedly very hygroscopic. The eSun site recommends drying at over 70C over 12H, so that's quite an investment needed. I did dry it out for a number of hours, don't recall exactly how much, and I've kept it in a dry box with desiccant and overall humidity of 10% or less. I plan to use it soon so we'll see how it's held up.
@naasking yes I think the general recommended for drying these filaments is 80C so I redid my test specifically for this filament baring this in mind but limited to the dryer I have and got better results. Working on a video now with the results, just been very busy lately.
I printed some things with the bambu labs blue PLA-CF and mine turned out great with no print issues. It may have just been what I printed. I *did* dry my filament before printing.
@JaimeWyant yes I didn’t dry it because it was optional, and I wanted to see how it would come out the way most people trying it out would use it it (possibly). Also you can see in the cut of the printing, that the print lifted from the bed causing the defects, maybe glue would have helped or using the engineering plate rather then the PEI plate. More testing is needed.
@T8Maker Great video. Give it a whirl after drying. I doubt it changes things for the moving parts but it may help with bed adhesion. I used the textured pei plate and mine came out great.
@JaimeWyant thanks, yea should have done some dried v not dried. I am away for a few weeks but when i get back I will try it out.
this is freaking epic
@DanSansFan I think you nailed it... a bit long 😉
What brand was the 80$ pet-cf that you said was the strongest?
@tylerfabozzi1586 Hi, it was Bambu Lab PET-CF. It was the strongest of the filaments I tested in the testing I did which was not scientific tests.
Intersting video, many thanks for this! I also experience this burn marks with the white Prusament PETG (on the Bambu X1C). I couldn't find the root cause so far..
@vogtm it happens on the Prusa printer too, with Prusa settings for their PETG. It could be filament sticking to the nozzle and burning then coming off into the print.
@@T8Maker Maybe it's just that the burn marks really stand out on the white PETG. In my case (Prusa MK4, "Real" brand PETG) it happens every so often, and it's definitely filament sticking to the nozzle; a sock helps but doesn't eliminate it completely. And I mostly noticed it on white parts, haven't noticed it on green or blue ones.
@kaasmeester5903 Yes, I think you're on to something, I also have a e3d sock on my Prusa Mk3s+, the Bambu Lab also has a sock from the factory and still got the burned filament on white Prusa PETG. But the first filament I started with was Prusa PETG and I have a lot of prints with that filament but have not seen it often on other colors, I did see it on Eono Red PETG and Eryone Blue PETG also. But on Prusa white it almost always happens (Prusa white is the only White PETG I have). I have two Boxes full of Prusa PETG filament because it was my go to filament, but I haven't used it much recently because I just dont have much time free these days to print to test it out, so it might be getting better with default silcer setting. Ultimately I agree its filament sticking to the print head and burning, PETG is very sticky while printing and strings a lot, could possible add g-code to clean the head during the print some how, or adapt the retraction, and flow. I need to look into this at some point.
Hi, I'm thinking of buying the bambu lab x1 Carbon AMS. I want to print very resistant bevel gears, maybe nylon. Do you recommend this printer? Has the AMS module convinced you even though it generates waste? Which filament is stronger for gears, nylon or reinforced carbon? G
PD: I missed seeing some breaking tests. In the end, a test that is too theoretical and not very practical. I would also have appreciated that the video lasted no more than 10 minutes. Thank you very much again, I learned many new things thanks to your video. It certainly adds value.
@sewing_machines Thanks for the feedback. I wouldn't worry about waste with the AMS, it only extrudes waste filament if it needs to to switch filaments, like in a multi material or multicolored print, how much depends on how many times you change filament during the print, a few grams most of the time. In my experiences its not that bad, I have a small bin on the back of my printer, and I very rarely have to empty it. If your not switching filaments during a print it will only purge at the start of the print. I do have a short where I printed a multicolour box and I show the amount of waste at the start of the video th-cam.com/video/iyj2Bkp312M/w-d-xo.html, that was more worst case scenario. Regarding which filament to use for the gears, I can only give you my opinion because I have never tested it, but because generally I see most manufactures use Pressed Nylon, and you need the lubrication and heat resistance Nylon would give you, I would say the PAHT-CF with its higher temp resistance and apparent higher strength would be better but Nylon on its own should be fine in most cases. But ultimately it would depend on what you will use it for and how you would print it. Definitely there should be someone here who has some experience on this would can provide some definitive feedback on which filaments are best. Re the video, I acknowledge this, and next video I plan to add more practical tests to the video itself. This was the first one I did and I have some things I can take away to improve any future videos. I also agree it was way to long, it was actually 6 hours of video, that I cut down and in doing so ended cutting out most of the useful info and the tests I did do that lead to my conclusions. So a lot to do here to improve any future videos like this. Thanks again.
t@T8Maker Thank you so much for your awesome answer! I appreciate it, it helped me a lot. I really love your videos. I can wait for see your next video! Thank you again!
@sewing_machines Thank you for the support.
Don't mean to hijack the thread...
The X1C prints every filament that I've thrown at it so far (including PC-ABS and even pure PC). Non-Bambu branded CF filaments are not recommended to be run through the AMS but I haven't had any issues (so far🤞🏽).
As far as gears, non-cf nylon would be recommended because CF is abrasive which defeats the gears. Small gears will print fine but generally, the taller the part, the more at risk you'll be for warping.
Finally, I'd recommend Iglidur I150 (tribo-filament). It is absolutely THE BEST for gears. Super easy to print, no warping, no smell, no drying necessary. It also won't become flexible like nylon after 2 weeks in the air. The downside is the price and availability.
@@3dPrintingMillennial Thank you so much! It help a lot.
Thank you very much for the information! Subbed
@Hohmies86 Thank you for the Sub.
Keep doing these relevant / in depth comparative analysis type videos and you'll blow up my friend. Keep at it!
@brianfield4170 Very much appreciated Brian. While blowing up is not necessarily the goal here, if I want more people to see the videos, you have to blow up or TH-cam won't recommend the videos, so I suppose I have to try :) Thank you for the support.
Great in-depth analysis very interesting to watch, just about to pull the trigger on a P1S but Bambu Labs cant be too far away from releasing the new version of the carbon according to their patent applications so might hold off a little longer.
@andymeenanvideos Thank you for the feedback, really glad the video was useful. This is one of the challenges of buying anything. There will always be something new on the horizon and when do you pull the trigger. You won't go wrong with a P1S from what I hear. My only concern with Bambu Lab products is that some of the functionality doesn't work if you don't use their cloud services, so what happens if they stop supporting cloud services for the printer version you bought. I would feel a lot better if you could use Octoprint or some other 3rd party tool with your printer with a direct connection. The latest firmware for Carbon X1, just released, does go a step closer to that by allowing you to view your camera locally (not tested yet), but you still need to use the Bambu Lab Slicer.
@@T8Maker Exactly, paralysis by analysis think im going to go for the Neptune 4 and just be done with it.
@andymeenanvideos An interesting option, a lot less risk, promises all the important features, and you can't beat the value. Even if it doesn't live up to the promises, you haven't outlaid much so you don't lose much. And if you decide to change later, you could recoup most of your initial investment by selling it.
Would love to see another video on these CF filaments (with PLA as a control) with some tests similar to what CNC Kitchen does (link below).
Recommend:
1) print solid-infill cubes and measure dimension accuracy with digital calipers - the moveability of these vise-grips prints is a good indicator or the accuracy, but simply measuring a cube is more informative in some ways I think
2) print straight bars with solid-infill and measure amount of flex as X amount weight added to ends
3) note max weight to break bars
(for 2 and 3, maybe print 1 bar flat along XY and another standing vertical along Z so you can test with and without layer adhesion as a factor)
th-cam.com/video/ycGDR752fT0/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=CNCKitchen
@iidensama thanks for the suggestion, in this case I think there are a lot of videos out there doing these types of tests, like CNC Kitchen, and, @MyTechFun who has an extensive collection of videos like that, and I didn't want to just replicate what others are doing, especially when they do it so well. I wanted to give people something a little different. In this case I wanted to do something more in line with prints that are like what someone might actually do with these filaments. Also I think the dimension of the cubes has a lot to do with your print settings and less to do with the filament itself, but maybe I am wrong... But thank you so much for the feedback, it really helps to know what everyone actually wants to see and finds useful so I really appreciate you taking the time to do that.
I wish I had seen your video before ordering BambuLab PAHT-CF a few weeks ago... Argh!!! ;)
@Dater have you tried it out yourself, what issues are you having?
When printing the PETG-CF, did you use a .4mm or .6mm nozzle? Thanks for the video, it was very useful.
@italiano0317 The .6mm is recommended, but I did all the prints with .4mm, it depends on the size of the fibers in the filament. Thank you for the feedback.
How do Bambu get their PLA-CF to be blue, I thought carbon fibre only comes in one colour?
@shuflie 5-10% infill of CF would be my guess. So little in there it would have little to no affect on colour just texture.
There is one reason to buy PETG-CF. It has a matte finish and hides layer lines. I use it when I need something to look good and when matte PLA would get too hot and deform. PETG-CF makes the nicest looking parts.
I bought a half kilo spool of the PAHT-CF to print a fairly large and long print. 6.5hrs print time in my Bambu P1S. I could not get the print to stick for the entirety of the print. My best attempt made it 90% of the way. That was using a 15mm brim. I dried the filament for 12hrs and also ran it from the dryer. I may try it again without the dryer, but it's too pricey to get bad prints.
@RYTHMICRIOT Oh man, I hate that. I don't believe your issue s drying, its more likely your bed temp and temp around the print as it prints. You could check the ambient temp in the print chamber and your ambient room temp (do you have cold air flowing through the room), the bed temp (too high or too low), also your infill type can exaggerate issues. Also in my own experience the smooth Engineering and high temp plate with Glue Stick are better than the textured PEI for holding prints in place. Bambu have a Wiki to help with print suggestions, you can find it here: wiki.bambulab.com/en/knowledge-sharing/pa-cf-printing-tips Also its worth trying some test prints before running your main print, maybe a print speed tower or a warp test like this: www.printables.com/model/4634-bed-adhesion-warp-test , anything to reduce waste. I hope you can figure this out, PAHT-CF is a great filament but way too expensive to waste.
Yeah, I'd definitely test bed adhesion before printing anything big. I think the official docs recommend glue stick for that filament.
I'd personally use glue stick with the engineering plate for that if using all BL gear. I've printed that filament on a garolite plate without issues. PA tends to need a bit of care with plate selection.
@@RichFreeman yeah, I was using the textured PEI plate that comes with the printer. I bought the high temp smooth plate and used this in conjunction with a glue stick and haven't had an issue since.
You sure did go to a lot of work to prepare this video. And quite a bit of expense as well. Thank you for the in-depth analysis.
@glennfelpel9785 Thank you for the comment. I hope you found it useful.
Good video
@haakonranden7977 Thank you, glad you liked it.
12:52 matt (not shiny) wall surface is a sign of too cold extrusion.
On speed benchy you can see this often.
@Todestelzer Thanks for this. This was meant to be a basic user review, i.e. take it out of its packet, dry if necessary, and run in the printer at the stock recommended settings by the vendor. Many people who have bought Bambu Labs, its their first printer, and this the target so they can see what you would get in those circumstances with an out of the box print. But, in fairness I see how that is little use, so going forward I am going to add print temp, speed, stringing and benchy test to find best settings. What I won't be doing is bend, break and melt tests, to find out the technical properties of prints. Just not equipped to do that. Also Filaments is not my main focus, just a side topic since I had them. Thanks for the comment.
I'm kind off baffled as to why you did not just turn off the brim!? Would have been a nice comparison if all prints were comparable.
@NitroHDB hi, good question, all these prints were done with the default manufacturer’s profiles and settings for each filament to give each filament a fair shake. I could have reprinted and remove the Brim, but I had already gone through a fair amount of filament and i don’t want to waste more than is necessary. But maybe I will do a follow up with some things people have asked for.
@@T8Maker thanks! I think my view is that the default settings are looking at bed adhesion and cannot consider that it needs to be a functional moving part, i.e. the operator needs to override such settings where they are not relevant to the specific print. Looking forward. Keep up the great content.
@@T8Maker thanks! I think my view is that the default settings are looking at bed adhesion and cannot consider that it needs to be a functional moving part, i.e. the operator needs to override such settings where they are not relevant to the specific print. Looking forward. Keep up the great content.
@@T8Maker thanks! I think my view is that the default settings are looking at bed adhesion and cannot consider that it needs to be a functional moving part, i.e. the operator needs to override such settings where they are not relevant to the specific print. Looking forward. Keep up the great content.
@NitroHDB yes makes sense. Thanks for watching and giving me some feedback, helps me improve.
Can you do a review of CoEx Filaments made in USA
@bdub8627 Hi, I haven’t heard of them before, will take a look, but it can be difficult and expensive to get filament shipped from the USA to Europe.
My main criticism of this video is it feels a little like you dont know what you are talking about, more like you just researched this rather than these filaments being something you have experience with, especially when you talk about the moisture absorbtion and how the filament looks. It may just be you chose bad example prints but nothing here really shows off the filaments and their defining properties.
I do agree with other comments saying this was a bit clickbait, especially when it starts with "In-Depth Review" when all it really is, is two test prints that dont really show off the materials and a commentary mostly about how they look and feel. Most people arent buying carbon fibre filaments for the look and feel but rather for the mechanical properties.
@conorstewart2214 thanks for the feedback, and both points taken onboard. There are certainly some improvements I can work on for future videos.
Intro should have explained what carbon fiber filament is and why do I need it?
@matthewcampbell4047 Thanks for the feedback, yes, I feel this video took so long I ended up rushing it in the end. This was a bad thing to do as I left out a lot of things that needed to be in the video and the video is way too long. Hopefully next one will be an improvement.
After how much CF printing you have to replace the hardened nozzle?
@vim55k I have printed 3kg and not seen any major issues with the original 4mm that i have been using for the last year. That said it would be no harm to replace it.
I would like to request a resistance test for next time. I think it would be easy to solve by putting enough weight on the catapult so that it touches the ground.
@mecmaker4546 I have been pondering how to do tests like this and make them useful. It raises two main issues. Firstly, the equipment needed is large and expensive if you want to do it right. Secondly, i am not sure how useful the results would be, other than being interesting to look at. There are so many variables in 3D Printing that impact on the results of a print, that even no two prints of the same item on the same printer with the same filament and setting, will produce the same results. There are no testing standards that are widely recognised and no one can agree on results. This is one of the reasons i focused instead on the printing experience with default recommended settings and drying. But i haven’t given up yet to find a solution, so hopefully at some point. Thanks for the feedback.
Have you ever used PC for parts?
@matthewthompson7012 I have used PC, from Bambu Lab, I bought 2 rolls and I used it in a previous video for Filpper Zero custom case. In that particular case (excuse the pun), I had a lot of issues with supports (trying to remove them), and the parts were very brittle. But I really did like the look and I can see some possible use cases where it would be perfect, where you need a hard plastic, not necessarily tough, and you want that slightly translucent look. You can take a look at the video here: th-cam.com/video/vTTx_0UVrzU/w-d-xo.html its another long one, but you can skip to the end "19:45 Destruction Test" to see me take a hammer to them... don't ask, I was in a strange mood :) , had spent weeks on the video prep and it failed... so I had to get something useful out of it.
@@T8Maker thanks for the reply and I'll definitely check out the vid. Keep up the good work 👍
@matthewthompson7012 Thank you.
Don’t you want a tiny cf string included in the filament rather than fibers
PET-cf without brim... would have been nice to see
@jakeMTSU Indeed, its on my long todo list, will do an update video when I have some things to add or update. Hope the video was of some use none the less.
I think if you want shiney, you have to lower print speed
@OlavAlexanderMjelde General consensus is higher temp for shin on your prints, but I suppose slowing the print, reducing the cooling fan with default temp could achieve the same result as it would allow more time for the filament to layers to bond, but I would assume you would have to slow it down a lot. But generally I think you would want to finish the print in a reasonable time, so fast with higher temp would be preferable, assuming you could manage the flow rates needed.
In Australia Prusa PETG is $80 and Bambu PETG-CF is $54AUD so its an easy decision
@tgsparkyoriginal wow, that is a no-brainer... especially if you have the new Bambu Lab membership discounts for the non-cf filaments. And I haven't tried it, but I suspect their basic PETG is as good as Prusa PETG. But this is the issue with filament value, it really depends where you live as to what makes are the best value, and for multiple reasons, Chinese made filament is almost always the cheapest no matter where you live, but not always the best value.
Honestly I did expect something completely different when I read the title and clicked on the video - that isn't a good thing in terms of the TH-cam algorithm. Basically seeing a promise where the video can't live up to - one could argue that it is clickbait. So, I as a viewer did not get what I came for here: An actual shootout/test.
Also I think there is some wrong information here. I'm not trying to be negative, but I'd like to point out what I mean:
I don't really see any good reason for printing print-in-place models using CF filaments. I was expecting at least some side by side bending and breaking tests. After all: The carbon fibers are advertised and included for strength and often for additional stiffness. Not just to look pretty (that is actually rarely marketed). None of that is really tested here. And the engineering graded ones are mainly made for single parts to be used on their own or within assemblies. That means after watching this video I didn't feel like I gained any information about what I should use each of these materials for (I my self do happen to know that, but I was still interested in seeing someone elses opinion in that direction).
Print-In-Place models are not exactly designed to be used with these kinds of filaments either, because that would defeat the purpose, when you have to add excessive tolerances (especially for the PET-CF and PAHT-CF). I think when testing a filament, it should be tested in the specific field that it is designed for (which I know is not easy at all).
There are multiple issues with PIP models using CF filaments. Dimensional accuracy on a level of regular PLA is pretty much impossible to achieve with CF blends, so you would need much lower tolerances on the models, but that would just add more compromises and that's not what you would want when you think about using CF instead of regular filaments (besides PLA-CF and PETG-CF just for the looks, since they cost the same and are still pretty affordable).
Also all CF blends that I know if are marketed at +/-0.03mm diameter deviance or more. I have bought almost every CF type and brand that I found on Amazon in Europe, as well as all types from the Bambu Lab store and I have not seen any CF material that is marketed at only +/-0.02mm. They all start at +/-0.03mm and many are just at +/-0.05.
I'm not saying I was expecting a scientific test, but if not that then at least some fun with it with some featured shots of the printed parts and how they perform is specific situations.
One very important difference is the amount of CF in the filament, which I didn't see you point out. The higher percentage of CF, the stiffer it becomes. This explain why one test of lets say a PETG-CF is not speaking for all of the PETG-CFs out there (besides other factors that I point out later). The CF generally helps to reduce stringing, warping, as well as stiffness and creep under load. A PETG-CF for example holds more weight before it creeps in comparison to the PETG of the same brand (but not across brands). The less CF there is the more it is for just looks. I don't know where you got the percentages of the CF blends from Bambu Lab but the least amount I came across was 15% of CF. Never less than that. I could not find that information anywhere in the BL store, but I don't believe it is just 5%. If you can point me to the source of that information, then that would be nice.
I have another issue here: Generally speaking it is impossible to compare one brands CF for some filament type, like PETG, to another brands non-CF version of the same type, because most brands use a blend of different plastics and additives - even color can make a difference. That changes the filaments properties by a lot. This is the reason why every brand recommends different temperatures and print speeds. And also why some PETGs for example stick better or worse to the bed or warp more or less or are generally stronger or weaker is specific conditions. If one manufacturer says "it's PETG", then it is only because that is the main ingredient. Also it depends on where they get the main ingredient from, because that also tends to vary from one supplier to the next. That's also true for PLA and all other filament types. Even the type of CF varies a bit from one supplier to the next, but that's probably much less noticeable. The differences here are composition and diameter of the fibers and the average length of them after being chopped.
I mean I'm sure everyone knows this in the back of their heads in a way, but no one actually takes this into account and therefore compares things that don't quite match well enough for a fair comparison. In the end people just want to know what to use in what situation and sadly no video will ever provide that kind of personal information.
Regarding moisture absorption, they actually do mean the part and the filament as well, not just the part - after printing the plastic is still the same, because it's not getting hot enough not change it on a molecular level. Sure it may arrange differently depending on how it's cooled, but that's not enough to make a significant difference. The argument of less absorption by the manufacturers is meant as a comparison to other filaments of that same kind (and brand). It still absorbs more moisture than e.g. normal PLA, no matter if you speak about the roll or the printed part. The filament in it's raw form has just so much more surface area, so that it absorbs moisture faster - but not more of it. Therefore every roll needs to be dried. So, moisture will also weaken the part as well after week or so (in some rare cases even make it tougher - less brittle but more flexible). That means if you leave a printed part in the open next to the roll of filament, it will absorb the exact same amount of moisture after exposed to the air for long enough, as the roll of filament does.
This is actually the reason why most strength tests, that you see on TH-cam are incorrectly performed - not many videos on this topic compare the printed parts at different moist states. What they should rather do is at least print the parts multiple times and expose it to various (defined) amounts of moisture at fixed temperatures and compare them at those states when they fully settled. Most videos don't do that, because it's hard to do and much easier to ignore that, even though it actually makes all the difference.
Finally: The eSUN filament is not the same as the one from Bambu Lab. It does feel similar, but they have different properties when compared side by side. eSUN actually produces two different kinds of PA-CF (that I know of). One is called ePA-CF and is a PA12 with 20% CF in it and the other (much more expensive one) is called ePAHT-CF which is a PA6 with 20% CF. Since BL is based on PA12 it can't be the ePAHT-CF. Furthermore it can't be the ePA-CF from eSUN either because that one is waaay cheaper - 50€ per kilo (it also feels a bit different in terms of stiffness compared to the one from BL). I'm pretty sure that price difference alone would be a violation of any contract.
I've bought all three of them to try out and they are all very different in strength, stiffness and heat resistance.
And I've heard many people state that Bambu Lab gets their filament from SUNLU, not eSUN. I don't know where they get their information from but it doesn't actually matter.
Even if it was eSun, they would just creates filament from specification by Bambu Lab and not necessarily produce the same filaments for themselves (and probably not even be allowed to do so). The whole packaging is different for the CF materials for both SUNLU and eSUN - they don't bother using Aluminium coated packaging for their own stuff. So if they do the same general kinds of filaments, they most likely use a different formulation. Otherwise you would see colored PLA-CF from the eSUN or SUNLU brand additionally to the general black version, but that does not exist.
@Noxoreos, Thank you for taking the time to give this detailed feedback, I take your point, and it is something i will consider in future videos. My goal here was not to replicate everyone else’s video, but to give something a little different. Whats the point of repeating what others have already done. Sorry you feel it was click bait, but I want people to view the videos and if i put boring titles and thumbnails up, no one clicks on them and the videos never get seen, and what would the point of that be. But its not meant to be click bait, every person has their own expectation’s and its impossible to account for that. Its the curse of TH-cam and humans. In any case to answer some of your questions. Prusa and Jayo both claim +/-0.02, you can check this on their website which i researched all companies website to get the manufacturer claims for the video. For the Bambu Lab carbon % that comes from their EPA and compliance docs available on their website pages for each filament and is different for the PLA and PETG from the PET and PAHT. The eSUN I tested was PA12, verified by the product number against their website data. Hope this helps.
@@T8Maker Sure, I didn't mean you should use boring titles and thumbnails. I was actually trying to say, that it's very important to set the right expectations for any video. Otherwise you will notice in your analytics that people either stop watching after a few minutes or they simply jump through the video. Both of which you don't want, because that behavior of users makes youtube stop recommending this video to more viewers and you get less watch time in total. In that sense I was just trying to help.
What I forgot: a real comparison between many differend CF filaments actually does not exist. CNC kitchen and mytechfun just test a few random filaments but no one does actually really compare lots of them in a single video.
I downloaded all of the docs on the BL store but didn't find any percentages in any of the technical data sheets and comparison sheets.
@Noxoreos Understood, and I do appreciate the feedback, genuinely. Making TH-cam videos, as a hobby, on top of normal day job and life, can be a time consuming lonely task, as you have limited time to do things (and it takes A lot of time, in this case 3 weeks), and no collaboration to help make decisions. So without viewers feedback, we have only our own opinion on everything. So without that feedback, certainly for myself, I don't know if I am on the mark or not. I only have video performance numbers to go by. Doesn't matter if the feedback is good or bad, its all useful feedback. So thank you very much for taking the time and I do take some of your points onboard.
Your not the first person to raise the issue of strength and bend tests, so that is something I need to think about, how I do it. The idea behind the Vice Grips and Catapult is the Vice Grip show the accuracy of the prints and the strength of the parts. The Catapult is separate parts that have to fit together (had to cut this part of the video out because it was another 2 hours), shows how delicate parts hold out, accuracy of the prints, and the springs show the elasticity. Its not scientific, but not everyone is scientific, so I was hoping this would help people who are not numbers focused, its not a comparison spreadsheet, if you get my meaning (and I did actually build a comparison spreadsheet for the BL filaments as prep work). A lot of those stats are available on their websites already. I knew this wouldn't be ideal for everyone, but I think there is an audience, who like me, go numb to the numbers on a video. Maybe I am wrong in this assumption, which certainly wouldn't be the first or last time... :)
Regarding the %, sorry I wasn't at my computer when I responded last night, its the MSDS (MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEETS), for example if you go to eu.store.bambulab.com/products/pla-cf and scroll down the page, you will find the link to the MSDS, cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0584/7236/6216/files/Bambu_PLA-CF_MSDS.pdf, which on Page 5 of 21 of the April 07, 2023 version, has the % of Carbon Fiber, which in this case for the PLA-CF, is as I say in the video, is 5-10%. I hope this helps.
@@T8Maker Yeah I know, making videos is not easy. And I did say that it doesn't need to be scientific. What helps, is when it's fun to watch. And I know that's even more work than what you said you had put in.
I do have a demanding dayjob myself, which is in software development and content creation for customers and that's the reason why I know about how to make youtube happy, even though i did not release such a video myself. But i did actually do hours of recordings just to be able to put together a video about that as well.
Time is the limiting factor for myself as well.
Thanks for the direction to the msds. I did open that pdf file, but didn't see the numbers there. Mainly because it's almost only in chinese. I will take a look once more.
@Noxoreos yeah its my own major bug with my videos, still getting used to even talking to cameras/mics in a room on my own, rather than talking to people, so it can come across kinda rambling or too scripted... but I am working on it. But agree I would like to make them more fun/interesting to watch, just need to figure that one out. Channel is only 6 months old and I think its already better than it was 6 months ago, but has a long way to go, and will always need to keep improving. That is where the feedback helps.
If you ever release the video, add the link, would love to see it.
No problem on the MSDS, it can be hard to find. But I do, do research before I make a video and try to avoid 3rd party sources for info. Not saying I am always accurate, but I try to be.
Thanks for taking the time to do this, very interesting. Also, glad you didn’t do ABS as this stuff is generally useless.
@peterf5318 Thank you for watching it and the comment. Yes, I have not had great experiences with ABS too, but I am quite impressed with ASA, keen to do something with ASA, but I want to get a few different brands to compare against to see if its a one off, and what is it truly good for. I only have Prusa ASA at the moment. But it will have to wait, I am away on vacation for the next few weeks, so maybe when I get back. Again thank you for the support.
@@T8Maker thanks. Definitely going to look at ASA. It’s not something I’m familiar with so it’s good to keep up-to-date with new materials. At the moment my favourite is definitely PETG on the bambu lab, textured PE I-plate, hardly any failures of many prints. I’ll watch out for your video, these kind of videos you make are absolute gems. 👍
@peterf5318 thank you. I am with you on that, I am currently printing an AirTag holder for my wallet right now with Prusa Galaxy Black PETG 😀
@@T8Maker that’s great, hope it goes well👍
@peterf5318, it did indeed thanks.
All fiber-reinforced filaments need to be dried before printing
Not every carbon fibre filament requires drying, but it's certainly no harm to dry it. For the ones like Nylon-CF that is absolutely necessary, the question is the drying temperature and the duration of drying. With the Nylon you are looking at, at least 80 degrees Celsius (176f) for 12 plus hours. I can only get to 50c so I need to at least double the dry time. I think there is no hard and fast rules and for everyone in every environmental condition and filament brand will have different needs.
Every. Single. Fiber. Reinforced. Filament. Not just CF ones. Capillary action.@@T8Maker
@user-sn6fo6gb9d Wow, that's a lot of full-stops.. :), I am not hear to argue, I am hear to share, discuss and learn, hopefully. As I mention its no harm to dry all filaments before use, but in my personal experience, I have not had moisture issues with BL PLA and PETG filaments with carbon fibre additives, also its not required per the manufacturer. That could be humidity where I am, it could be the fact I immediately store everything in airtight packaging when not in use, or I could just be lucky. For you, your experience seems to be very different, and I am sure many have the same experience as you are having, which is what I would expect as there are so many variables in this hobby/industry that its impossible to have a one rule fits all. Its one of the reasons I don't try to do bend or break tests, because there are so many variables that impact final properties of any print, and there is no recognized standard I am aware of for testing that my results could differ greatly from the next persons results and likely mine would be inconstant anyway. Point taken, thanks for the comment.
Sadly I can only attest to the bad results with eSun PA-CF. I have now wasted half a spool of it and a week of time and still can’t print anything with it nicely. No matter how much I dry it and how many calibration test I perform with it, it just doesn’t want to work (or you drastically lower your expectations). My 7 years of 3d printing experience don’t seem to be enough.
@maximilianlindner In additional tests to get anything decent out of it, 12 hours at 50c (recommended 70c) gave me ok prints. But not sure how useful the material is over standard Nylon.
@@T8Maker I dried it for over 24h @ 70°C in my Sunlu S2 before printing (and during). I ordered some other brand PA+CF filaments to compare. Maybe the mistake is on my side
@maximilianlindner Unlike a mistake on your side, but have you checked the actual temp in your S2. I have one and it never gets above 45c inside, also it is not circulating the air. But I may have a bad one, your may be better. Most of these driers never get above 50c. The one I have used in my testing was the EIBOS 3D Filament Dryer Series X which has a fan but also never goes above 55c when I measured it internally, but it does have a fan and circulates the air which should remove the moisture filled air.
@@T8Maker That is very good advice. I will check that 👍🏻
Update: After 14h @ 70°C my digital thermometer indeed showed only 63-64°C, while the dryer display showed 70°C.
From what I know 70°C is already very low for PA, but the actual 63-64°C is just not enough.
I took the spool out of the S2 and put it in the baking oven at 90°C. Old school, but whatever works 👍🏻. I’d be happy to invest in a better dryer if that was indeed the mistake.
@maximilianlindner Wow, you have been busy. There is diminishing returns on dryers, by the time you pay for the dryer and the electricity it uses (every time you want to print), the difference between high end CF filament and the cheaper stuff like the eSun, it just doesn't make sense to save on the filament. At that point just buy better quality filament. The Bambu Lab worked out well dried in the Sunlu S2 for only 8 hours, even though it never hits temp. I also recently used a Qidi role of Nylon CF and I printed on my prusa directly from packing without drying and got a great print ( I was being lazy).
Printing too fast for the material you’re using.
@wutangclams9936 For which one, or all of them? In all cases except the Jayo, it was printed with the manufacture default print profiles for flow, speed, etc. One thing I will say speed related, most CF filaments recommend 0.6mm hardened nozzle, mainly because of the fibers, which I might try. In this test I used the Bambu Lab X1 0.4mm hardened steel nozzle. I have two new CF filaments I want to try out, might try the 0.6mm, just looking to find the time to do it.
ich finde das echt schade das du in Englisch redest aber Deutsch Titel verwendest das verwirrt nur die leuchte
@olis-bastel-bude6470 Ich verstehe, dass dies verwirrend sein kann. Aber ich möchte sicherstellen, dass jemand, der kein Englisch spricht, das Video ansehen möchte, zumindest dem Geschehen folgen kann. Ich würde gerne wissen, ob die Übersetzung gut ist? Ich bin mir sicher, dass es sehr offensichtlich ist, dass ich kein Deutsch spreche, aber ich möchte mir zumindest etwas Mühe geben für diejenigen, die sich meine Videos ansehen. Vielen Dank fürs Anschauen.
@@T8Maker schön aber ich verstehe kein englisch und hätte es mir gerne angesehen
@olis-bastel-bude6470 Ich verstehe, dass ich da nicht viel tun kann, außer möglichst genaue Untertitel zu liefern. Aber ich verstehe, was Sie meinen.
The truth about carbon fiber in fdm filaments is that it is a ridiculous useless gimmicks for consumer grade printers.. These are FDM printers for gods sakes. There is nothing, and i mean absolutely NOTHING significant to be gained by adding carbon fiber to filament today other than headaches, wasted money, time and wear and tear on your machines. FDM priters are AMAZING and are great for fast prototyping and light wear parts. Anything that reaquires more durable materials requires a diffrent process. Period. Full stop. End of story. That's the reality folks
False. It hides layer lines and makes the parts look better. Anyone who makes product samples or sells parts cares about the surface finish. Also it reduces warping during printing, and some of us need to make dimensionally accurate parts.
It's been demonstrated through empirical, scientific, peer reviewed studies that the addition of chopped carbon fiber, glass fiber, or kevlar fiber increases strength, modifies dielectric properties, improves heat deflection, etc, etc.
Why did you not run test for best printing speeds and Temp for each Filament, rather then box suggestions??? I would say no one besides beginners, ever listen to those setting's without testing, but here we are!!!! 🫤🤨🤨!!! I see too much plastic being extruded bad retraction settings over temps.. the only settings you had dialed in are your PETG's you did ZERO strength test how hard you can squeeze the grip and break it off, or twist the adjusting knob off to a seized part is hardly a test of anything!! you gave your Favorite a fair shake and everything else was out the box!!!! Biases reviews is deceptive I was excited when I seen your video title sadly I had my time wasted because you let your fandom get in the way of doing proper review and testing along with probly lacking the knowledge and equipment for doing those test, this whole review comparison is a wash you destroyed it