My Tesla Model Y Is On Its Third Battery - Here's The Story
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ค. 2024
- Tollak joins the channel to give an update on his high-mileage rideshare Tesla Model Y and how he has had two battery replacements (luckily under warranty) in his two years of ownership. Learn what the warranty, service, and battery replacement experience is like and hear some of his concerns for owners out of warranty! Battery failures are rare, but a new pack is no small cost to consider.
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0:00 Welcome
0:52 How I Got Here
1:49 First Battery Failure
4:38 Service Visit
5:52 Not Quite New Replacements
7:15 Second Battery Failure
10:06 Current Status
11:17 Out of Warranty Fears
13:06 Wrap-Up
#tesla #modely #battery - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
![พรากรัก - เต้ย อภิวัฒน์ [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ShT2ltn8GBE/mqdefault.jpg)
Finally an ev fan who don't lie about problems that might (not necessary with everyone) will happen and buyers should know...
Who exactly is lying? Maybe most people just do not experience battery failure? I have not seen Tesla Bjorn lie for example, he has shown some degraded battery cars. I have also seen a guy ripping to shreds Opel Astra because the engine failed and other stuff and xalling them crap while mine is 12 years old and running like champ. One guy gates Toyota because he got a lemon… Lemons do exist, maybe there are more of those with EVs now but probably people whose batteries fail with want to ralk about that more often than those whose batteries do not fail
@@lkrnpk Too bad most blind ev fans even if the car has a problem try to make excuses that it's just a rare occurence when it's not. I have basically two opels one is an old now 28 year old astra F with 300+ thousand kilomters no issues except rust because it is what it is and other one a late 2003 opc, bertone version it sucks balls i owned for 1,5 half years from that half was spent on electric and computer problems and still doesn't run not even start at least i don't lie about it, no defending nothing. But if we see the biger pictures opel astras F and G models 10+ million were made worldwide 95+% worknig and stood the tes tof time. The smae can't be said about electric cars.
Yeah but the technology is in its infancy and many people said when Model S came out that the cars and batteries would be dead in 6-8 years but now they are driving at 12-13 years of age, at least some of them :D. They are so new, the long range generation, that it is hard to know how it will be and new chemistries and batteries come out all the time, it could happen like that, that tomorrow there really is a battery that will live for more than 20 years with maybe some cell replacement, if there is not already@@maszkalman3676
@@lkrnpk I've seen videos with EV owners coming with genuine problems with their Tesla just to be attacked by Tesla/Musk worshipers. Then they have to defend themselves and prove their problems are real. It's crazy how some people buy into an idea and worship it beyond reason.
It's true that such things happen too, it cannot be denied, there are also some who have invested in Tesla stock and for whom therefore Tesla is infallible and they even do not like the idea of other car makers making good EVs@@faster6329
Perfect example of why we need right to repair laws. Tesla has no interest in doing the right thing here; they just want you to buy a new car, like any corporation. What we need is more competition so consumers could buy third party batteries.
Tesla replaced the batteries so they did, in fact, do the right thing
In this case they did the "right" for them thing but where it gets difficult is for out of warranty failures, where right to repair because more important.@@theotherphil
@@theotherphil You don't understand, the right to repair laws mean third party can fix the product, not only the maker. Tesla don't want or sell any parts to the others specialised in EV garage that are able to fix it too. Example in this case, I bet it not a cell as the owner think is the trouble but a trouble with something with the BMS or part of it (My jugement based on the rapid degradation and no Error on the voltage). Bms is only a mini electrical control board, cost ??? 20$ maybe for the part. Of course Tesla prefer to sell a new battery pack for 13 000$, way much profit for Tesla and if this fear the owner to buy new car, again better for Tesla probably again. Right now, to replace this 20$ electrical board, specialized EV garage need now to buy used part to be able to fix Tesla since Tesla still don't allow it....
@@sergiomomesso1590 Why would you want to repair when it’s still under warranty? It’s easier and cheaper for Tesla to swap out the whole pack, get you back on the road in the shortest time frame and worry about repair/ recycle later.
Tesla is not the only manufacturer that does this. Ask farmers about repairing tractors.
I've been following your discussion about changing the battery three times under warranty, and now that you're almost out of warranty, it's the main reason I'm holding off on buying a Tesla. The thought of having to replace the battery for $25,000 if it stops working has been a concern. However, I've recently discovered that they don't install entirely new batteries; instead, they rebuild them, which adds another layer of consideration for me.
It becomes scrap
EVs are not going to last there are lot of flaws the battery is not good enough to be put into cars, the resale values of these cars are worst among other cars , the battery economics is a scam , sooner than later the consumers are going to know the truth, hydrogen fuel cell is the future, hydrogen has a energy density of 38000 wh/kg, best tesla byd batteries have energy density of just 500 wh/kg, there is no way you can match them, US and Chinese govts wants you buy electric cars every 3-4 years , they get huge kickbacks from these companies , the Chinese govt is running Lithium scam business 😁😁
@@safeandeffectivelol It doesn't. The faulty module is replaced and the pack is put back into service in a different car.
Your review is actually super helpful. Thank you so much for sharing!
Great video thanks for sharing your experience! I have a Model 3 Performance and after 8 months and 6'000 miles (9'000 km as drive in Switzerland) my BMS showed BMS_a029, which is about the same as your note. They also gave me a "new" battery pack after 4 weeks. I use an OBD and with the OBD you can "see" how many DC and AC charged kWh have been put into the "new" / replaced refurbished battery pack. In my case, considering the average kWh/ km or mile I had so far, the OBD data showed that the "new", refurbished battery pack had at LEAST already around 25'000 km , or 15'500 miles on it BEFORE it was installed in my Model 3 P which had at that time only 6'000 miles or around 9'000 km. thus, the refurbished, or "new" battery pack was NOT quite "comparable" in regards to the mileage to my initial battery pack but had about 2.5 as many miles on it!! Now, without installing an OBD (on board diagnostic) tool i would have NEVER found out! What do you think of that?
Honestly you could probably sue Tesla for it. Under warranty, especially during the first year, they have to provide an equivalent or better replacement. Not a worst one.
Imagine if an ICE car maker were to replace your motor with a used one, or repair it with used part, nobody would accept that. There is no reason for Tesla to get away with it.
Stupid question, the tesla accepts an OBD tool? Is it a regular OBDII hookup or is it a specific OBD tool? Just got my Model3 P about 9 months ago, I haven’t had a problem yet so I don’t know much about the car except driving it. Any information will be helpful, thanks in advance.
@@fdeguilla specific cable that can hook to a standard obd reader
Any OBD or Tesla specific units?
@barn2255 not sure which industry you refer to.
Any warranty claim I ever had either repaired my product or replaced any broken part with a new one.
Especially in the car industry, never heard of a second-hand part being installed.
Even when replacing entire motors under warranty om ICE a new one gets installed.
Interesting video, I use to have a model Y performance, had it for three years on lease, at 40K miles replaced 2 sets of tires, normal driving, followed charging to the T, one battery pack replaced under warranty, second one started to degrade at 86% just before 3 years was up, had rear power drive unit replaced under warranty, had to drive a rental car for almost a month because tesla had parts shortages, Every charge was on DC fast charging, very bumpy uncomfortable ride compared to my Audi A6. Glad I am done with EV's. Dodged the massive repair bills. Now I got Camry Hybrid XSE, I could go anywhere, No More RANGE ANXIETY and much comfortable than Model Y or any Tesla
What is there so much talk about “fast charging?” Does anyone really know what fast charging does to batteries? To long for me to explain. But they will tell any lies/not full truth about fast charging to sell EV’s.
@@gerrydave7586 Most EV fanbois are in denial about fast charging's effects on battery life. They are also in denial about extreme cold or hot climate's effects on battery life.
@@gerrydave7586electrician here. Yeah fast charging is obviously terrible for batteries. Which everyone should know, as fast charging is bad for phone battery too.
Range anxiety?😂😂 you sound like you have cats and a lot of them too. Im sure picking out flavored ice cream is a challenge for you. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Thanks for the great video and reinforced why I won’t buy an EV anytime soon, my Prius will have 400k miles and still be on the original battery, you are helping people Wise Up, thanks again !!
Agreed, I'd never buy a Tesla but was researching other ev's for a potential future purchase, na, I'll keep my well maintained diesel until the doors fall off.
Glad I this video popped up in my feed. Although I’ve been watching more videos on EV’s this one was incredibly informative.
And you’re correct charging customers for a new pack when it’s just a remanufactured one is a rip off and they should be sued.
Fantastic and fair video.I had no idea they were doing this with the battery packs.
Transmission also
What do you think they’re doing with cell phone used battery trash cans at the Best Buy’s of the world.
Personally, I would like to see the packs to be manufactured to be maintainable. Munro's dissection of some Tesla packs demonstrate that maintainability, by Tesla or a 3rd party is not a goal. Matching cells within a battery leads to the longest pack life practicable. I am not sure the balancers can offset poor cell matching. Good luck with your goal.
Yes, cell balancing just brings the maximum voltage of a single set of parallel cells in a series string to the same value once fully charged. The capacity of the battery is limited entirely by the capacity of the weakest set of parallel cells. If a single cell's fuse dies, the entire pack's capacity from then on will be reduced by the rating of that one cell.
I believe Tesla's modules are put in series (something like 46P 24S per pack and 4 packs in series), so if a single cell goes, it'll be just over 2% extra degradation. That makes it odd why sometimes the capacity goes down so drastically, and points to something else than just the battery cells dying. Perhaps there's some connection issue. (Edit: that's with the 2170 cells)
I know a parts guy that works at a Honda dealership. He told me that all the replacement packs in cars, even under new car warranty, are rebuilt packs. As the gentleman stated, they salvage good cells from bad batteries and assemble a used pack that has all good cells. Of course, you never know when the rebuilt pack might fail. Could be a year, a month or a week. There is no way to tell. So, make sure you buy the extended warranty and then get rid of the car once the original pack fails.
Good call!
Name that dealership, they certainly are doing that to rip off customers. There is no way using rebuild part for warranty works, unless it is a really old one out of warranty and the customer is aware of it. My company had an 2001 Honda odyssey, it has a transmission failure under warranty, that model year is known for transmission design issue, it was replaced with brand transmission. That is the only experience that I had for the past 30 year with replacement of major drive train components for Honda or Toyota.
@@haihengh not a rip off. It is the modus operandis for EV battery replacements. The only time an EV will ever have a new battery pack is when it leaves the factory.
"Could be a year, a month or a week." - or a decade.
EVs are not going to last there are lot of flaws the battery is not good enough to be put into cars, the resale values of these cars are worst among other cars , the battery economics is a scam , sooner than later the consumers are going to know the truth, hydrogen fuel cell is the future, hydrogen has a energy density of 38000 wh/kg, best tesla byd batteries have energy density of just 500 wh/kg, there is no way you can match them, US and Chinese govts wants you buy electric cars every 3-4 years , they get huge kickbacks from these companies , the Chinese govt is running Lithium scam business 😁😁
Thankyou for sharing your story Hope they can solve the problems good luck
This is sad. I have a 2007 Lexus 400h with 200k miles and haven’t had any issues only tires and oil changes. I do upwards of 200 miles a day doing deliveries. It’s an amazing how my 16 year old vehicle is holding up better than a new Tesla.
I just had to spend $9,000 on a new transmission for a Subaru Outback that was six years newer than your car with 130K miles. That's like a battery going out, pretty much.
@@incognitotorpedo42Subaru isn't as reliable as Toyota unfortunately. If you're doing a lot of miles, a Toyota is probably best cost per mile over the ownership.
@@incognitotorpedo42In Europe, Subaru is considered the worst car manufacturer, even the Italian Fiat is better.
@@SKYLIMIReally? How reliable is VW there? I heard that VWs are considered reliable in Europe. They’re considered unreliable here in the US
30,000k for gas,with an mpg of 30 price of 4.50 per gallon without gas spikes.
Vehicle 8,000 purchase or more.
Struts,springs and rubber are probably due.2k DIY and dealership 3.5k.
70 dollars per service every 8 thousands miles 1,750 dollars.
2.5k for tires on that mileage.
40k + assuming your car has had no issues,no car accidents or small repairs.Next year annual expenses are still coming.
In a way you’re paying every year for half of battery 🤷🏻♂️
I've been doing Lyft on my mach-e and already put on 20,000+ miles since starting 6 months ago, now I may get a bit nervous how durable and reliable the mach-e battery pack is. Thanks for sharing your story!
There are a lot of EV rideshare drivers now. Som have way more miles and their battery is fine. Some were not like the Uber on KimJava video.
@@chargepozitive I'll have to check out her video next. I'm really interested to know how's your overall experience driving for Lyft with your model y? I'm gonna be making a video on mine pretty soon
@@TheRealMerchyBautista same here!
@@chargepozitive
While there aren't that many videos out there with people having battery issues (at least for Tesla), I think it's clear that when there ARE problems, the combo is always the same: a ton of miles + super charging exclusively. I've had my Tesla Model Y Long Range almost 2 months now. I've super charged only once and that was just to see how it's done. I charged to 80% like always and only needed to add 30 miles or so. The average person, who's putting 15K miles or less on their car every year and is using an L1/L2 charger 90% of the time will end up with a car that gives you 300K miles or more.
I had a Mach E before they are known for being very reliable except the HVJB issue and the software glitches. I am sure you can do it
as a Nio owner with a rented & swappable battery (it swaps in ~4 minutes at a battery-swap station, costing just the same as a full fast-charging session), this Model Y scenario shows how swappable batteries make sense in the long-run.
As a gas powered car owner, seeing the nonsense you need to do and how bad teslas are, it just shows that gas powered cars are better and better for the environment.
People who own EV's are suckers who have little grip on actual science or common sense as any one who can believe that a gas that plants need to grow, a gas nicknamed the gas of life, the gas that is so low in environmental atmospheric concentration, a gas that makes up only 0.04 percent will cause us all to die if it bumps up to 0.04 percent while using fossil fuels that they have found on a moon of Saturn that is actually renewable.
Enjoy. Everyone loves seeing my car when I take it out. I get filmed, pictures taken, people want to sit in it. I get stopped in traffic and people talk to me while we wait at a light. And may gas powered car is about as fast as a Tesla too.
It doesn't matter because all of these batteries have potential to spontaniously combust. That is a WHOLE other set of problems and issues with loads; insurance; safety; more government regulation; weight restrictions on roadways; recertifications of building codes; etc.. The government pushing these 'lawn ornaments' tells me that these 'tree huggers' are not in REALITY!
They wanted to go fullEV by 2030 I say fuc|< that. I would never go EV. EV Battery just suck period. Look at power tool batteries for example. I remember they tried to push a battery lawnmower and that failed immediately and now they’re trying to ban all gas power equipment tools. Give me a break.
@@darksideblues135 oh you are the guy who calls others suck at science? And why do scientists worry about carbon concentration in the athmosphere? Do they all suck at science or are they bought?
Well, yes you are a guy from the internet who claims knowing better than anyone else with no ecvidence. Make sense to just trust your BS.
Swap able batteries is the best solution for EV’s.
Thanks for the video. I'm about to buy my first Tesla and we have a service center near by. I was an automobile mechanic in a prior career and worked for repair shops and dealers. I have been reaching out to people who I know that own Tesla's and to local mobile Tesla service techs that I know, just to get what they have to say about the experience of owning and maintaining a Tesla. I mentioned being a mechanic in the ICE world only because in that world we connected with other mechanics and sources of information ALL the time to seek out what was normal and not normal. Going lone ranger and trying to figure this stuff out yourself is really tough.
So who is telling the truth?
It seems to me that Tesla (and other makers) should provide a long warranty on reman battery packs, regardless of whether provided as part of warranty service or paid with cash.
Great video Tollak! Here is to hoping that your third pack stays sound. Since you were showing around 315 when you got the new pack maybe it was a fresh one that was referenced as remanufactured by Tesla. I have high hopes that the newer batteries are more resilient than the older ones. Here is to hoping for 200k on the latest pack!!
Best chance of getting 120K miles from a new pack is to only use slow charge.
Yeah doesn't sound like a great experience.
This video might be the tipping point for me. I don’t think I can afford to afford a car that’s 1) expensive to begin with, 2) expensive to repair, 3) unreliable, and 4) more difficult and expensive to service than gasoline engines, requiring even more specialized electrical “mechanics.”
This was done under warranty. Besides the replacement my car has been VERY low maintenance. As I said in the video the rest of the car mechanically has been flawless.
or just watch any mark mills video of the past 5 years
@@chargepozitiveI think the problem is that, with most things electric, things are treated as disposable rather than repairable. Had this not occurred under warranty, you'd have been in a world of hurt such that the car isn't worth repairing due to the cost involved. An EV with no battery is worth parts.
@@chargepozitive I have driven my Toyota over 100,000 miles and have had nothing repair not even under warranty
@@chargepozitivehard to believe that our ancestors used to be rugged frontiersmen and farmers. But I'm sure you are living the dream fella
173K miles on my model 3 standard 2021. can confirm the battery pack experience makes you rethink the viability of the car for business needs. i paid 8.6k out of warranty for the RMN pack. its better to sell prior to battery warranty going. for context my first pack failed at give or take 108k miles.
I have a model 3 LR RWD from 2019 and had the same problem this spring after 98.0000 km. Battery was replaced under warranty. The new pack had the same range as when my car was new: 525 km (523 km new). It is now at 117.000 km and still has a range of 518km. This is normal degradation. I asume my pack is new and not refurbished.
My original pack had a degradation of about 7% when the problem occured.
I charge on AC most of the time. Only on long trips 2 or 3x a year I charge on DC. In the beginning I charged to 90%, later only to 80%. Verry seldom to 100%.
That's so crazy to me that's like getting a gas car and the gas tank gets smaller as the car gets older.
@@spectrexr1 Well in a gas car the tank doesn't get smaller, but it will get less efficient over time. That amount to the same effect.
@@marcelreijnen not that less efficient lol. I had a 93 Fox body mustang that drove well for 10 years definitely didn't have 7% range degradation per year lmao
@@marcelreijnen That is just not true,i have 2003 diesel which i still use for puling caravan and still consume same like it was new 20 years ago.I wanted to trow away that car like 5 years ago but it just dont want to die and pulls caravan that is same weight as a car all this years
If you're curious the invoice for the repair order will show a -RMN in the part number for the replacement pack if it is a remanufactured unit.
I wonder if some battery packs and BMS systems have been slightly damaged depending on where and how they've been charged. Like if a specific charging station has unusual large spikes in power possibly causing changes in pulse width modulation that the BMS does not handle well. It might be causing extra degradation each time you charge if some cells are falling out of balance or being overcharged. The charging networks are all owned by different companies and who knows if there are design issues at the charging level or even with the power grid at your home. AC power from the grid can be clean or dirty, higher and lower voltage depending on the area and it's being converted to generate the DC EV charging. I know at my work we had a phase issue with the power in the building and while that is AC power it still took out a couple of computer monitors and a couple power supply's in some servers and workstations. We have a lot of the same model of professional equipment and most of them survived but some did not. Point being the ones that still work likely took some electronic damage or degradation.
Most battery disassembly available online show that most BMS failing do so due to humidity in the pack.
Having the BMS in the battery itself is really a bad design choice from Tesla.
Thanks for sharing. Reman battery packs often fail again, since they've also failed once before.
A well made car can last 20 years with proper maintenance. I have Toyota and GM SUVs and both are reliable (to date). The GM product, a Sat Vue has 246k miles on it. I add a little oil between changes... AC had indications of a leak about 200k miles... so we dont use it. Right side of dashboard back light bulb needs replacing... odometer back light needs replacing... otherwise, works fine with 248K miles on it. Maintenance consists of 5k miles oil changes, 100k miles cooland changes, and trans fluid changes. Otherwise, just fine. Plastic body, so no rust.
The Highlander is under extended warranty with regular dealer maintenance... no issues what so ever.
This is what I require from an EV, and they appear not to be there yet. I think Neo has the right idea re the batteries, but I am not sure how this will work out in practice, as I do not know the guaranteed specs on the replacement rented batteries or if they are verified or checked regularly by Neo.
I’ve been saying this for so long. I would pay for an extra warranty for failure instead of degradation. The warranty sounds great but if they are the ones doing the math on what’s going on inside, they should offer better assurance that you won’t have a failure, then you shouldn’t have to play roulette with your pack. They are keeping you safe from an event which is great but if you aren’t getting a new pack, then you are right, you shouldn’t be on the hook for another failure. They should stand behind their products and processes.
They should stand behind their products and processes!!
THIS LESSON IS USEFULL FOR ALL old & new customer =looking a tesla !!! Pease don for get this LESSON !!
120,000 miles and 8 years. Seems reasonable. How many auto manufacturers warranty their drive trains that long? Just saying…
@@dr.markevers8331 drive train doesn't cost 13K~20K
Why not just skip the EV purchase altogether. Problem solved.
@extremedrivr chicken and the egg problem, if we won't buy them they won't evolve
I have played around with modules that form a full batter pack . I think 4 modules make up a pack but maybe more for bigger packs. The module cells are glued together and would be very hard to repair at the cell level. My guess is that they are matching modules to make a pack.
I would sell the car and buy a new car. A bad pack out of warranty could cost you a large amount of money.
problem is EV's are worthless second hand especially high mileage, lucky to get back 25% of what he paid for it
@@michaeledwards8079 under 20k$ seems to be the price of an out of warranty tesla.
Very detail video. Thanks so much. I have 2021 MYLR with 22K miles. It is so far so good. I watched a few video about batteries nightmare. One guy replaced a the battery after the warranty for $9K and got refurbished one. This is one of major reason so many people put on hold buying EV. If I knew this, I would hold buying Tesla. I told my daughter to hold buying Tesla and she agreed after watching this video. Thanks again for the detail video. I may return to ICE car.😂
thanks for the clarity.
There are ways to sell your pack to cover some of the costs of ordering a new or remanufactured one. And companies like Gruber Motors can repair/replace modules. Over time, i expect there to be more such shops.
well messing around with Gruber you can also have your car end up a TOTAL LOSS. conspicuously everybody keeps ignoring the not 1 but 2 MASSIVE LION BATTERY FIRES that guy has had burning themselves out of "business" and home (Pepperidge Farm Remembers). yeah, i'm still wondering who's their Insurance provider...?
The way the cells are glued into the modules I highly doubt they are pulling out and replacing individual cells. They may put in used modules though even that seems as if it would cause balancing issues.
I was reading a few days ago about a guy in Norway on his 7th battery pack and 3rd engine. No wonder rental fleet companies are dropping Tesla, like Sixt and Hertz(to a lesser extent).
FYI motor not engine.
No big deal. It is called General Motors and Ford Motors, we know what it means when they are not using the term they should.@@haywoodmorganjr1326
Do you recall where you read this? I'd like to share this story.
@@aaron___6014 Just Google "Sixt dropping Tesla" and there are plenty of articles
@@aaron___6014'he says she says' - 'I heard about it' - 'my neighbour told me'
Thanks for the good info
On my 3rd pack as well almost exact same issues as u almost exact mileage but mine in 19 m3 sr+ but thanks for ur input I am def worried tbh 😅
Are you also always super charging? My guess is you are. It's really hard to put 40K+ miles on your car every year without super charging, because there simply aren't enough hours in the day. I don't care what Tesla says, 40K+ miles a year + always super charging = you're putting too much stress on the battery. If you want your car to last you 300K+ miles, do yourself a favor and use an L1/L2 charger 90% of the time. Oh, and if you're planning on doing ride share or door dash or something where you can put up to 100K miles in one year, that means you'll have no choice but to super charge. Forget it, in that instance, get a used Honda Civic and beat it til death. EVs aren't made for that.
@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403 ya I am 100% SC live in an apt and commute 200mi a day
@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403I drive 40k a year without supercharging my model y
It would be nice to see everyone batteries undergo a regulated, yes, regulated connections and sizing to enable plug and play replacement , sure a few design are okay, but packs to be easily replaceable with oem or third party packs.
won't happen, or it would also have happened on ICE motors...
You raise very legitimate points of concerns.
I got a brand new model x about 3 weeks ago. At under 500 miles was plugged into a supercharger and battery died. Model x is still in the service center on our 6th day. Supposed to be done and replaced in 2 days, fingers crossed. Everyone I have talked to says I just had bad luck and this isn’t very common. Hoping no more issues since the model x was my dream vehicle. Good info and thanks for the video
Insanely good business. Get a few bad cell modules on a pack, replace them, sell as new pack for $10-20k to those, who aren't on warranty anymore. And if it's under warranty, it really costs almost nothing to replace the bad modules, only shipping back and forth plus a loaner for the customer. I will be buying Tesla stocks right now. 🤣
You have to understand that re-manufacturing a pack is not "swapping a few cells". Rich over at RichRebuilds still has to charge a lot of money when he "repairs" a pack. The labour and the skill level, the safety requirements etc is significant. Quite often, the issue isn't bad cells, it's water ingress and damaged communication boards. The description of the process in this video is incorrect. They don't salvage the cells. They pull any damaged modules and boards and replace them. The process is pull the battery, open the battery without damaging the case permanently, diagnose the fault, replace the damaged parts and re-seal the battery to "as new" condition. It's labour intensive and a minimum two person operation because you're dealing with extremely high DC voltages. Tesla can probably do it cheaper because they will have access to wholesale new parts and battery modules.
So if significant supercharging prematurely erodes Tesla batteries, then Teslas should only be used locally or where daily L2 charging is 80-90% available. This would then require a 2nd ICE vehile for road trips which hurts the push to all EV. Most road trips require 95-100% L3 charging as L2 infrastructure on the road is very limited when available.
The new packs are not serviceable at all. They are filling them full of polyurethane, which makes them impossible to work on.
If you pay for a new battery, you will get a new battery, not a remanufactured one as you are implying.
Try finding a few bad cells in thousands.... and you need to discharge the battery pack before messing inside it, makes the problem of finding those illusive bad cells even worse. The cells are in series and parallel connection making matters even worse.
Great information and insights, thanks! Having some experience with turbine aircraft, where engines can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars there are companies who basically lease engines on a per-hour and calendar-year basis, and it often makes sense for revenue operator as major out of pocket costs are avoided, and fixes and variable costs are known.
For vehicles out of warranty perhaps a third party could offer remanufactured packs on a "Power-By-The-Mile' basis. Also, could a salvaged pack be an option if your current pack fails out of warranty?
Adding another cost to EV ownership
@@chrissmith2114 The way I see it In aviation and potentially with Batteries that can cost more than the vehicle Chris, it's a way mitigate a potentially catastrophic unplanned expense and minimal down time in the event of a failure, that could render an owner making payments on and asset that if unusable severely devalued.
Aviation MSP/Power by the Hour' programs are often less expensive than engine ownership as the provider has large pool of resources and can re-manufacture engines for less than a factory reman or new. And if the airframe were to become airworthy the operator can simply send the engines back and scrap the airframe.
With Private Jets, an operator can buy an aircraft less engines for about 1/3 or less the cost of an aircraft with engines included. And can run with top quality engines for an hourly charge, and offset additional costs with the lower capitol cost.
If Tesla owner start experiencing battery problems as you have encountered, perhaps battery insurance might be worthwhile.
@@jackoneil3933 I have never had or needed engine or fuel tank insurance on any ICE car, so battery insurance will be just another cost of EV ownership
@@chrissmith2114 Indeed. But when you buy a new car you are paying for a warranty (Insurance) for everything on that vehicle.
If one needs or chooses to buy a vehicle that has $18,000 component with a finite and risk of unpredictable failure, leasing such a component can be a cost-effective option if your have high utilization and re saving a significant amount on operation costs such as fuel, on that vehicle vs. an alternative ICE vehicle.
Low-use private owners of Private Jets tend to own their engines that could be $450,000 each and lease their engines if they are high-use commercial operators.
I was trying to draw a parallel to high-use commercial Tesla operators, as as suggestion for a service. For example, If a company provides you a battery on a five year 200,000 mile basis, basis for $20,000 over that term that's $0.10/per mile and $4,000 per year or $333.33 per month, that you can write-off as a direct operating lease cost, and if the battery ever fails you get a fast replacement for not much more than taking out a loan on a replacement battery that might fail at any time.
A comparable ICE Vehicle is going to be about $0.15 to $0.24/per mile for fuel vs. $0.10 per mile for battery reserve and $.05 to $0.18 per mile for home vs. Supercharging, so even if you got 5 years out of your owned Tesla battery the leased battery would only add about 20 to 30% to your battery cost. If your owned battery only lasts 60,000 miles you the leased battery cost is about 1/3.
It may be a a bit of a foreign concept to grasp, but I've been running it for years on aircraft, and leasing engines is often the cheaper, safer way to operate.
@@chrissmith2114 exactly, an expense with EV's that heretofore consumers have been "suckered" (and "suckered themselves" not to put too fine a point on it) into believing doesn't exist...
as anybody familiar with Fleet Maintenance will tell you (ref: Jack-O) EVERY vehicle made by Man has a "running cost" to one degree or another. yeah Hertz and now Sixt are seeing more clearly, but the reality is they both should've known better, and pros don't let laymen tell them how to run their business (since these laymen could be Frauds)...
ultimately then costs can't be HIDDEN nor can they be ESCAPED, no, we just like playing "shell games" with costs to see if we can make someone else bear the burden.
So, you got a refurb pack. Not a bad deal, but I’d want a brand new battery. Glad you’re talking about battery degradation because it can and will happen to every BEV. No one is immune to it. 😊
I'd expect a brand new battery under warranty as well. When the traction battery on my Prius went out around year 9, it was out of warranty in my area ( 10 years in california, 8 elsewhere ), but I called Toyota corporate on the advice of the Prius forums, and they offered to give me a brand new battery pack for half price under a "good faith warranty". I went with that rather than an after market rebuild. At year 16 it is apparently still running well though I sold it to a co-worker last year for his 16 year old son to drive.
So, let’s say my RAV4 engine failed internally while under warranty. On what planet would I be OK with Toyota finding a used engine with “about” the same usage and me, the customer, allowing them to install it in my vehicle that I had purchased new? And in the severely unlikely event that I did allow such nonsense, I would insist that the warranty coverage start over to cover the replaced part, above and beyond the original time and mileage period. Your presence on TH-cam telling the world of your experience is your only shot at getting fair and equitable treatment from the manufacturer. God have mercy on the rest.
Remanufactured engines are used all the time. @@montyboy5436
I totally agree with you on the battery repair process both under warranty and after warranty , The cost must be much less and the rebuild process should not cost as much as a new battery , Thank you for sharing
It doesn't cost ad much.
There is a core charge on the battery. If you want to keep the pack being replaced you can. So theis guy needs to learn how to ask simple questions at the service center.
The way you treat the battery is the same way you treat the engine in an ICE car. If the engine goes then you buy a new one. If youre driving for a living youve already come out ahead on cost.
@@sparksmcgee6641 Can you explain in more details? Can I ask Tesla to fix my battery and reinstall it back on my car?
@andrep1174 no because it would cost X4 of what it costs to return the core and take the refurbished.
You can do it yourself if you want.
Core charges have been standard in the auto industry for close to a 100 years.
Get a rebuilt engine, transmission, battery you get credit for returning the core, or spent part. I think you get a credit of $10,000 for your tesla battery. Pay full price or get 10k off returning the old one.
@@sparksmcgee6641 An rebuilt engine costs about $6000 in most sedans. If you don't have a home charger, you'll be sitting at a charging station for hours at least once or twice a week. If you drive for a living and don't have a home charger, don't get an EV.
I just had my engine replaced under warranty (class action law suit) and it is a remanufactured engine. Sounds similar to what telsa is doing with their battery warranty.
it's fairly common practice for autoshops and manufacturers to use warrantied remanufactured/rebuilt parts.
@@bigfootandbananaman4746if I’m understanding my remanufactured engine correctly it is just cobbled together with various aged/worn parts it is not 100% new. I really don’t know how old the small block is versus the cams but I hope they don’t have 110K hard miles on them for instance.
If I get various aged/worn batteries in a replacement pack it would seem like the same idea. They still build the pack to spec and must meet release requirements I assume just like my engine
@@krisevonRemanufactured engines don’t really “wear” all the parts like the packs do. The majority of the wear parts will be new and I’d expect a reman ICE engine to last every bit as long as a new engine. Things like rings, bearings, and seals will not be reused. Generally that’s the stuff that wears out with age.
Common even in the mobile phone industry. Warranty replacements are often refurbished devices. As long as refurbished/remanufactured objects are held to a good enough standard, this is better for environmental and economic reasons.
That said, if the refurbished/remanufactured versions aren’t as good as new or within 99%, something needs to be done imo.
@@bigfootandbananaman4746 Not true. A remanned engine does indeed include many old/used parts in them, and you're now relying on a technician at the local service center to rebuild the engine, vs having the manufacture rebuild it. And where is your proof that a remanned battery won't last as long as a new battery? It might not have the capacity of a new battery, but the life span can very easily be just as long as a new battery.
Did you rideshare and put lots of miles on your volt or bolt? If so how did they do with high mileage per year?
I would really like to know what are the frequency of these types of failures and of what type of battery packs.
Really good personal experience video. Videos like yours are important for people to understand the whole EV experience.
Yeah most people are waking up to this whole ev scam and realising it’s bullsht ! EVs will never be a viable replacement for ICE vehicles until the technology is much better which is decades away. What will you ev evangelists do when insurance companies refuse to insure EVs because they are so dangerous with battery fires ? What will you do when the rare earth minerals needed to manufacture EVs are exhausted and become too expensive to mine ? These EVs are so far from being green and environmentally friendly it’s a joke,it’s not going to work until the technology is far better than it currently is. Fossil fueled vehicles are going to be around for many decades,anyone that thinks otherwise is delusional.
The experience should be a hard lesson of I told you so. Don't waste your money on an EV.
@@extremedrivr some people are just clueless about common sense and logic.
@@IDGAF56852 Yes they are.
Perfect example why I still love my old ICE 5.3 Chevy.
MX-5 NC + PRHT, Thank Christ! : )
Don’t get a new 5.3. My 22 suburban eats oil and that AFM fouls out plugs. Stupid emissions crap that we don’t even need because c02 doesn’t affect the climate.
Thanks for your video, this definitely sheds some light into the issue im currently having:
My 24k miles model Y 2021 long range battery power goes down 1% each time I drive 1-2% miles. Im in country where theres no service centers and I would have to take a ferry to Puerto Rico to get serviced.
I would love to have some suggestions to avoid having them say something like "the battery is fine" or something similar. After watching this video its very obvious that my car's battery is degraded by a lot.
Is the car in any particular climate that is harsh? Too much heat or humidity? Is the car is stored outside all of the time?
Hook an OBD dongle into the car and look into battery details. You can see more details what is going on in the battery and also what kind of trade you got on a “new” pack. Love to see that kind of a video and good luck with the third battery
Honestly you shouldn't have to do that on such a tech-focused car especially one with a giant screen. The days of hooking up and OBD dongle with secret codes should be in the past.
Be careful with those full time dongles, as they can fry the electronics in the car under operation.
I would think that if you paid for a battery pack out of pocket they would give you a brand new battery. A replacement warrantee battery doesn't have to be brand new cells since they are footing the bill, they just need to get your car running in the same condition as the pack should be based on degradation estimates.
We should all know what “warranty” can mean on batteries. People need to “educate” themselves about batteries before jumping ship into an EV. I know batteries and will never purchase an EV. Let’s invest in hydrogen power.
It is not true. I saw another video, someone paid $9K to replace model 3 battery and he gets a refurbished one.
But with an ICE car, when you get any part replaced under warranty it is a brand new part. Also in an accident they only replace parts with new not used.
How were you charging the car? Supercharging?
Do you use tesla Insurance? My insurance cost went up as I hit 20,000 miles on Year 1 significantly on Tesla Insurance. I need suggestions on which company to switch to. It is now $315/mth projected for Feb 24
Hmm, my suggestion would be for a "rolling" warranty to come into effect when a battery pack is replaced.
That way, for the $13,000 the owner would get 8 years of coverage, starting at the replacement date rather than the original purchase date of the car.
Alternatively, split the difference. Pay $6,500 and get 4 years/25,000 miles added to whatever remaing time & miles are left on the original battery warranty.
Yea the remanufactured warranty sucks.
Why would they do that? Since they install a used pack, it probably won't survive another 8 years.
It's still terrible, I bought my 1983 datsun for only 600$ and it made it to 290,000 miles on its original components and got 50 mpg meaning 500 miles on its 10 gallon tank.
I just don't think the majority of people could afford an ev, just the people who can afford to buy new cars every 8 years anyways.
Do you know what is the trade in value of your car with over 100k miles? Might be worth switching to a new car?
I'm in the UK, have 2 diesels, BMW and Audi, both built in Germany and I'm happy with them. I have looked into Teslas but have reservations about battery degradation and range, so this video is very good real world knowledge about what happens over time, thank you so much.....I think I will hang on to my 2 diesel convertibles
So if you buy one out of warranty do you get a new one? And does it come with a warranty?
You should sell the car right before the battery warranty expires
With all the negative EV news around, used prices plummeting and talk of failing infrastructure (chargers), financing will be sure to take a hit.
Would you be prepared to buy this model given what you've seen here?
Only if there was a lifetime battery warranty.
I might give $1000 for it. Maybe.
I have a 2018 Model 3 that I discovered on my first road trip to never charge it to 100%. I tried 3 times and lost a mile each time, plus it took forever to charge. From that point on I only charged it to 90%. I mainly charg at home now and it appears to be doing ok as it approaches 6 years old. I only charge it to 80% now and it appears to have lost about 16-18 miles depending on the temperature. I was so happy with it that I bought a Long Range Y. I have never charged it to 100% but it appears to have lost 15-18 miles after 1 1/2 years. So now the question is the battery pack different? I know the 3 has 2170 batteries in it. I don’t know if 5he 2022 Y has the new 4680 battery or the 2170. But I’m still very happy with the performance and the features of the cars.
Model Y long range has 2170 cells. Only the standard range had 4680 and currently it’s not being produced as the Cybertruck is taking all of those cells. If your Model 3 has the 2170 cells, then it is the same pack as your model Y.
I have been looking into getting a electric car but this video along with others I think I will give the market some more time to get everything ironed out.
Good video.
There's nothing to Iron out.
EV's are NOT the future, and they never were.
ICE car's are all we need.
Say NO to Radical Environmentalism!!
This dude charged to 100% often (not recommended by Tesla) and drove 4 times more than the average person. I'd say he was a fringe case. There are many more millions of people who don't have this problem with their EVs.... especially Teslas....like me.
The reality is that still, the EV game is like the wild west. It's every man for himself. There's precious little governance and no policing of the industry. And, of course, all of the town's folk are rallying around the biggest gun slinging bully in town in the hope that they, themselves don't get thrown under the bus. Wait.
Our pack did the same thing at 29,000 miles. ‘21 Model Y long range. It was replace with a brand new back after they couldn’t get a refurbished one. 330 miles on charge after we got the new pack. Car is now at 69,000 miles with that pack and 309 miles fully charged. We also have a friend that bought a ‘21 Model 3 long range and his pack went out at 54,000 miles. It was replaced with a refurbished pack this summer. Both cars had the BMSA066 warning. I’m starting to think this was an issue with ‘21 3/Y battery packs. Our why was purchased May if ‘21. Still the best car I’ve owned.
Don't park it too close to anything.🌋
@@leoncardinal2035 Nonsense.
My family has six teslas, a six year old model 3, three model Y's about 3 years old and newer X. The model 3 needed a battery replaced at around 80,000 miles. It was under warrenty. It took five days including the weekend to fix. They gave me my choice of Uber or loaner. It still runs like a new car. Other than that we haven't had hardly any problems. My model Y has almost 100,00 miles and also runs like a new car. With over 5 million teslas on the road your going to get some that need fixing. They are the ones that you hear about. The money we save on maintenance and gas savings versus charging at home far out weighs by thousands of dollars over the few hundred dollars that we spent over the years. If and when I need a new battery, I am willing to take that chance because of not only the savings in money but also the time savings as well by not having to get service or go to wait in line at Costco for cheap gas. I'll never go back to gas.
If anyone telling you their family has 6 cars of the same brand, one need to replace major drive train components replaced under warranty, most people will think that brand is piece of shit car manufacturers.
@@haihengh most people don't comprehend world around them which leads to stupid conclusions.
i am willing to bet that owning a Tesla for 10 years+ vs owning something like a Toyota Camery, the Tesla is going to end up costing most people more money in the long run.
@@tomzphone certainly it will, more electronic, which will break down in about 7-10 years, I used to have a 2003 MB C240, the entire dash is a single unit, and it breaks in 2012, i lost all driving info, the car can still go but i just can't read how fast it goes and how much gas i have in the tank, it cost me 4k for the repair, the car only worth 6k if everything works fine. toyota on the other hand, they are known for using very old but proven tech, which has a tendency last much longer. that's why for a lot of 1990s toyota, when a lot of things are falling apart after years of use, but the car still runs. tesla, on the other hand, uses a lot of fancy stuff, but it is just prone to have more failures.
Nobody is going to buy your 6 Tesla's when you are done with them. Nobody
I wonder if you would have better luck by trading this car in for an LFP Model Y. The car won't be as fast but the battery might be more durable for your use case.
Trade it for an ICE car.
They don't sell an LFP Model Y in the USA. The cheaper RWD one is supposedly still NMC 4680s.
@@seltzered No, they stopped making 4680 Model Y’s in October & started selling the CATL RWD model. That’s why the RWD Model is losing 50% of its tax credit next year. Not sure if the change was to make room for CyberTruck production in Austin or b/c the 4680’s were disappointing.
@@lh2338 a lot of initial news headlines and people (including myself) were hoping the Model Y rwd made at Giga Texas was using an LFP battery. They are not according to actual deliveries over the past month.
Another alternative though might be the newer Ford Mach-E where some trim levels have LFP (and will list it on the Munroney sticker).
As mentioned above they stopped making the RWD trim in Austin. They’re importing the CATL RWD ones now. Just do a quick Google search & you’ll find the story posted in October at multiple outlets
Once the original battery goes,you get rebuilt? Is that why you are on your third? Rebuild are not to par?
This is part of the reason why I’m on the fence for electric cars in general.
These cars have custom made parts for everything. If that manufacture goes out of business your screwed. You can’t go to autozone etc to get a replacement part. You also can’t go to any mechanic to work on it. It’s all new and because of that high risk on future support and cost.
I wouldn't buy any EV until batteries are mass-produced at scale in the US. Just a few more years!
some evil people would even argue that's one of the points of this shift in technology - to move risk from manufacturers to customers 🚗
Every car in production has many parts only used on that car as custom. It’s a right to repair issue with all cars, all auto manufacturers are trying to stop repairs from being cheap so they can make $$$. Write your representatives and demand right to repair.
@@hugegamer5988 Most cars share many parts with diffent cars ,like my Opel Insignia is build in Germany but electronic is full GM same like in many GM american cars ,engine is FIAT 2.0 diesel that is used in many different cars and brands ,transmition is also same for many different cars and brands ,so even i live in small city in Serbia 150k people i can find any part in local stores,dont need to order anything
What I'm starting to see about Tesla is that it's a smart idea to not let your warranty expire and let go of the notion that your Tesla will last for decades like a Toyota Camry.
I mean it's not really that surprising. Tesla has never had the reliability of Toyota. It's the main reason Toyota is so big. I see so many EV fans bashing Toyota for not getting in the game yet, but their sales are still doing fantastic and some of the hold outs have finally started moving to hybrids. I barely meet anyone anymore who wouldn't at least consider a hybrid. Only people I've seen otherwise are those who don't understand what a hybrid is.
@@Skylancer727 thank you for giving a reasonable response
The Tesla fanbois claim Tesla batteries last 1 million miles. None of them can show an example of an EV that has been driven for 1 million miles before needing the battery replaced.
I have a 2008 Toyota with 350K miles and it still runs like new. I might be lucky if it gets to 500K without serious issues. This won't be due to quality, but things just wear out on the road. I'm not in denial of reality like Tesla fanbois.
It will last 8 years or 90,999 miles and a day later will go to shit lol.
@@safeandeffectivelolDepends how many joints they smoke before making 1 mil claim! 1 joint=200,2 joints 400 mile ect lol
You should probably do a video finding out where your old batteries went. Which landfil and if it seeped into the water yet
What is the experience of other high mileage drivers with full electric vehicles?
By the way, this is why NIO's leasing swappable batteries is the best technical solution.
How often did you charge to 100%? I had my Model Y performance for 3.5 years and I normally only charge to 90%. So far I've lost about 5 miles of range in that time. I considering changing my charging routine with my home charger to 80% but I don't really let it ever get below 20% charge so that only give me 60% of my pack to use on a daily basis. I'm not doing a bunch of long trips so I only have 15k on the car so far so I only use a supercharger to top off to get back home and I don't really ever try to charge to 100% unless I really need to. How is your charging experience different?
That's the part that sucks about electric all these lame rules don't charge to much dont let the battery get to low. If I could never fill my truck completely full of fuel that would suck so essentially your rarely ever getting full range.
@@daryl9799 The newest generation of cells are LFP, which don't suffer range loss even when charged to 100 percent every day.
Lucky you. I have a 2018 Model 3 MR with 260 when new. Now 100% is 235. Daily charge is to 80% only, less than 10 times super charging, driven to less than 20% less than 20 times. I think the packs have gotten better over time.
@@drivingmecrazyinla9457 There might be some calendar aging going on as well. But you're right, the packs keep getting better. I'm going to trade my S if Tesla puts in the LFP batteries in them.
@@daryl9799 ICE vehicles have a lot more lame rules, you are just used to them.
Don't floor before engine is warm.
Don't drive it completely empty.
Don't idle.
Change this every x miles, change that after xx miles...
Driving statistics show that virtually nobody needs the full range of their vehicle in one trip or on a daily basis, so it's a nothingburger for most people anyway.
My 2010 prius has same issue. Only getting 40 mpg because of battery becoming weaker. Toyota made it to last very long, but it does not last forever like you’d hope. I think this is why Toyota does not want to do EV’s - because they think batteries are expensive, and they don’t want to pay for warranty issue for taxi cabs where the car is severely ran, and it’s a difficult issue ! We need a great big battery breakthrough, so that batteries become dirt cheap, and last LONG. That’s what we need. I like Tesla for taking on this challenge.
Only 40. LOL.. I get 13-15 mpg.
We have a 2010 Highlander with 150,000 miles and the battery shows just about a full charge.
Cheap to replace or repair - at least they are in the UK.
It's not that terribly difficult to replace the battery in a prius. Plus you can replace it with a pack that's both smaller and more energy dense now.
But that last part is wishful. You either get more range or cheaper, you don't get both. Even solid state either means EVs with more range but much more expensive or same range but similar priced. The only way to get both is to just have a more efficient vehicle. But considering everyone wants an SUV or crossover today, that seems unlikely. Especially today where people even think sedans, which are still huge, are tiny death traps.
My 20 year old '04 Prius is still running with its original battery.
Sounds great.
I had a Toyota Highlander that had the transmission and then the transaxle replaced under the factory warranty. Both replacements were rebuilt units not new. In addition, they don't come with a new warranty, they are only guaranteed to last until the original warranty expires. If you have body parts replaced such as a fender, chances are they will be used parts.
Not the first time I’ve seen this on ride share, heavy use cases. Not sure if this is stressing the pack with frequent super charges or something else. You are doing 3-4 years of average mileage in 1 year. Saw another case where they were supercharging to 100% twice/day for ride share. I would bet SOMEBODY knows exactly what the cause is.
Frequent supercharging is known to degrade the battery. Same with frequently charging to 100%.
What a shame. Pretty funny really, an ICE vehicle does better being driven high mileage.. EVs are so inferior
because of this one case? There are numerous examples of EVs requiring far less maintenance than an ICE vehicle over it's lifetime on TH-cam @@hobo1704
@@hobo1704ICE vehicles get sooo much better with higher mileage. That's why they steadily appreciate the more you drive them!
@@Duder0n I am talking about driving them long distance everyday like taxi's.. it's mainly cold starts that wear out ICE engines.
I'm from Australia so enjoy a bit of overseas content. I'm also an electrical engineer so understand the technical side of EV's. This is an interesting story in that the maturity of ICE's is in it "componentisation". For example when an ICE drive train (fuel driven motor) fails you can replace that major component with a long block, a short block or just a new head as required. You don't technically ever replace a full motor in an ICE given the spares market is so comprehensive and not costly. BEV's are heading in that direction but as you've experienced with a major component, the replacement battery market is still very much finding it's way. Russian roulette was the term used. As the EV variants from PHEVs to BEVs have more time in service, we'll just have to wait and see what the spares market ends up looking like.
Batteries need to be covered under warranty for 5 years minimum, maybe more. Europe will enforce this and ensure manufacturers have to sell cars with batteries that don't need to be replaced every 100 000 miles. The cost of replacing a battery is just way too high right now, and tesla is reaping huge profits from failing batteries. They said a battery that has a common failure point needs to be replaced at a cost of $16 000, it cost under $20 in party and a hours labour to fix it.
But the EV fans say its simpler which i always find funny especially since they have no clue just how complex it gets or the fact like Tesla the electric engines are specs are like sports cars.
@@andrewbrown6578I don’t know how manufacturers will actually be able to give 5 year warranty (and what’s the mileage limit over those 5 years)? 😉
Governments have been seriously pushing EVs, and they certainly forced car manufacturers to go faster than they could (most of them, not necessarily Tesla).
Technology isn’t being used because it has been improved and tested over decades, but because laws are forcing manufacturers to build them.
We’ll always have a problem when laws are much quicker than science, and in Europe, you may remember how much governments pushed diesel sales, because they had less CO2 emissions over petrol cars. 😉
Yes, they did, but they also had the poisonous particles emissions problem, and it was nothing new back then.
That knowledge already existed for decades, but that didn’t stoped so many European governments from looking at the CO2 emissions only.
There’s a limit on what governments can push automakers, and that includes warranty periods on EV batteries.
If manufacturers are forced to give unrealistic warranty periods, either the average price of EV’s will have to increase in order to create a financial “buffer” for the warranty, or it could become the start of the end for that manufacturer. 😉
European manufacturers are already having several problems due (also) to what they were _forced_ to do, rushing the technological progress to their customers, even if some of it is only half baked.
I’m not a Tesla fan, but I do believe that credit must be given to what they did with electric cars.
They weren’t pushed to build them, they pushed themselves and still have an edge on EV technology.
And even with that edge, we’re seeing situations like the one reported in this video!
Does anyone believe that any European manufacturer is going to solve these battery problems?
I don’t, and let me be clear that most of the dozen plus cars that I’ve owned are from European brands.
As for Tesla and EVs in general, time will tell how it worked out. 😉
It’s all great when the car is brand new and shining on the showroom (it has always been).
The _big_ question is when situations like these start to become common (and they will, there’s no doubt about it).
Will you really want to put your hard earned money on any EV that’s out of warranty?
I sure don’t, and we’re already seeing an huge depreciation of prices of out (or near) of warranty EVs.
If the used market for them doesn’t grow, they will actually have an even greater depreciation. 😉
And depreciation is one of the big costs of owning _any_ vehicle.
The only way they can prevail in the long term is for them to be increasingly cheaper, in such a way that they can be seen as mobile phones, computers, TV’s (etc):
- Products with a predicted life, which you throw away or recycle after a certain amount of years.
We must keep an open mind to the fact that technology is always improving, and batteries are no exception.
But we’re still waiting for any significant evolution on EV batteries that would allow to avoid this huge and expensive ownership cost/risk.
Until then, every new EV on the market today is a guaranteed uncertainty over in a relatively short period of years.
As a qualified electronics engineer there are simple ways batteries could be replaced or repaired. Model S packs have had just one cell fail reducing a car to 40 mile range. The one cell was cut out allowing the pack to reach 100% again as the one cell is only 3.6 Volts. If the cell banks could be replaced easier that would solve lots of issues. The major issue with the battery cell bank is they are usually under the car in a protective frame to protect the batteries from collisions. Porsche and VW group use pouch cell packs that can not be repaired as it is hard to remove a separate pouch cell (they are in cell banks). Tesla use individual cells that can be cut out but are now building the car around the battery so the interior of the car needs to be removed. Renault and Nissan had the best idea where you leased the battery so f it failed it was replaced. No one does this now, I wonder why ? Porsche also altered the software of the battery management as the 200 kw charging causes damage a lot quicker. Any DC rapid charging will reduce the life of the battery and all battery packs degrade by about 5% after 2 years even if AC charged. This is due to the battery settling and the chemical reactions as the battery is used.
yes and your not the only E.E here, the current design of these EVs are a joke the only thing they will do is increase our dependence on electricity and increase the price in Australia, As for the cell repair sure in principle but in practice with out a TESLA badge or working at TESLA as s so called TECH it would void the warranties now i can understand that to a point, but it defeats the whole point on the environment factor same with the use of a 500HP engine or a EV that pretends to be a normal car.
Thus in the current Design and Topology we can't take them seriously also as an E.E guy you should know the way most cells fail is normally short circuit as well as EOL is short circuit aka dendrite happiness funtime. @@RB-lt8kt
BMW i3, 2014, range was down bellow 70%, after a lot of arguing my BMW dealer replace the pack. I asked, if they replace the damaged cells and they said NO, BMW replace all of them, so basically I got a new battery, which is working perfect after 2 years.
I'm wondering how the new structural battery packs can be replaced if the batteries are embedded within the door panels and other parts of the car. By the way, I see that you're in San Diego. I'm looking forward to the new Tesla store coming to Encinitas!
How much did you save vs if you had driven a gas car for Lyft? If you saved 20k using electricity vs gas, then you still come out way ahead, even if you have to replace the battery out of warranty. In the entire time you had it you're also driving around the best and definitely safest car on the planet, with insane audio system and amazing features like dog mode and sentry mode. BUT I do agree 100% Tesla needs to upgrade the warranty to 150k miles, or make the battery replacement cost no more than 6k out of pocket.
$20,000 savings over gas in 100k miles?? This would equal $.20/mile in fuel savings. Here is a real quick and easy way to figure it (insert local rates for personal situation):
ICE - 30 mpg @ $3.00/gal = $0.10/mile fuel cost.
EV - 3mi/kWh @ $0.30/kWh = $0.10/mile electric cost.
i highly doubt gas is $3.00 a gallon in California more like $5.50 or $6.00
And I highly doubt he is supercharging at $0.30/kWh - more like $0.60 or $0.70/kWh. Did you miss the part about inserting personal situation? My point was that $20,000 in savings was a nonsensical number@@mteifke
@@danlowe8684 Its actually better savings than I posted. I have a co-worker paying $250 per month in gas, we have the same commute, I pay 0$ per month in electricity to charge my Tesla since I have solar. I'll be saving $30,000 in just 10 years vs my friend who drives a Honda CR-V. If I didn't have solar, I'd probably be paying $30 per month in electricity, which isn't much. The savings are huge.
You math seems to be off. You have to pay off the solar install cost first, then quote savings on the Tesla.
It looks like you charging often to 100% if you have all these stats. In your situation id consider trading the car to one that has LFP battery pack. Long range battery doesnt "like" to be above 90% or below 10% too often.
Agreed. 80% is recommended and it says on the screen.
So its only long range rarely or it will break in short order? Great.
@siraff4461 The possibility of increased degradation is not from charging to 90 or 100%, it's the car sitting at those levels all the time. If you charge to 100% and start driving then no problem. But if you charge 100% each day, drive 20 or 30 miles down to 91 or so, then charge up again to 100 each day it's sitting around idle at 90+ a large percentage of the time. So most charge to 80 on a daily basis and then to a 100 before they set out on longer journey. If you're driving 250+ miles each day then sure, charge to 100 each day and that's no problem.
@@siraff4461 Chill out. How often does one need more than 80% range?? 99.9999% of people use their cars for daily commutes of typically less than 30 miles and errands typically of only a few miles. So unless you're going on a trip, there's rarely a need to charge above 80% (and even then with all the chargers, I'd argue you don't even need to charge it above 80% for a trip).
@@kenbob1071 You just made a great argument for plug-in hybrids.
... did they replace it with a new pack or rebuilt?
It uses either Panasonic or LG Chem 2170 cells. Later that year, the LFP batteries from CATL were an added option for those who what to charge to 100%. It would be interesting to know if the same issue happens with the 4680 cells that replaced the 2170.
I wonder if there has been any LFP pack replacements. For some reason the gurantee is only and 160.000 km for LFP where it is 192.000 km for NMC packs. Apparently the Berlin RWD model Y use LFP blade batteries which perform significantly better when supercharging than the CATL LFPs of the china build model 3.
Do you hear any comments and truth about ultimate disposal? Any real facts about battery degradation and effects of “fast charging” to make it all more palatable? So many hidden issues! Fantasy my friends.
Aren't you supposed to charge to only 80%? I understand if you charge to 100% every day it will reduce pack life?
For longevity, you are suppose to charge up to 80% and charge at 20%; otherwise you will kill your battery fast. Also supercharging is super bad, too.
It's the DC fast charging, if he's a Taxi driver, then he's likely going to 100% (which at the top of the pack is just a trickle charge anyway) and then he's immediately using up the power so (same as our phones) it's not like the battery is just SITTING around at full SOC, and keep in mind due to the internal safety buffer it's technically not really at 100%, no, it's only shown that way to the driver.
That wouldn’t cause this problem, if that were true then the whole pack would have degraded more evenly. It’s pretty obvious a cell or two failed (more likely), or he got a coolant leak into the battery (less likely). That would have happened anyway, supercharging or no.
@@HumbleBearcat some new Tesla Y have LFP batteries, thry have been used in China teslas since 2021, and you won’t need to worry about any 10%-80% rule as they do not degrade the same.
Yes and no. Charging from 0-100 makes it so your battery meets its rated cycle life. Avoiding the bottom and top 10-20% will increase it beyond its rated cycle life.
Or in other words, dont worry about it.
Very good point here. On warranty I get the "remanufactured" model but many of those cells are coming back to you so the total material cost is less than the cost of all new batteries. After warranty, I'd expect a pack with all new batteries. Also a re-start on the 120k mile warranty should be applied to that all new pack with all new batteries. In early days, there may not have been enough batteries but now it seems the Nevada and the Kato Rd battery plants should be providing enough supply to allow for new batteries on replacements. Just my thoughts here and thanks for the details.
You can buy a brand new pack after warranty.
I just assumed replacement packs came with an added warranty. I never expected I got better treatment buying a hand rebuilt transmission for my 97 Camry from a junk yard compared to a $20K battery pack.
I wonder if you did buy a new battery if it would all be totally new or just built out of good cells?
The reason that Tesla remanufactured batteries cost $13k-$20k is because that's what batteries cost. A new one would cost significantly more so it isn't as if Tesla is doing something wrong by charging that much money, especially with the liability and warrantying of rebuilding something like a high voltage battery pack. Every other manufacturer is having trouble with battery replacement costs because they do not have a system in place to supply remanufactured units. The Ford Lightning battery is around $36k, Mustang Mach E at $24k plus core, labor, and shipping, Ioniq 5 at around $50k, Hummer EV is $36k plus labor (pretty cheap considering the capacity). It is also my understanding that Tesla applies a 4yr/ 50k mile warranty to reman. batteries. I would not recommend anyone own an EV out of warranty, failures are low but the manufacturer doesn't trust it and if it fails you're pretty much screwed.
I am glad that more and more third party shops show up which give you a more affordable option to repair your ev, if it needs to be done.
What concerns me is that I keep hearing more often from people that the battery pack goes bad on actual low mileage.
I hope its just that every time I hear it l, it rings a major alarmbell...
The business I work with, we sel also reman parts. They are often not much cheaper, but better warranty terms or connected with a core credit. Basically once you out of warranty, they should give you a credit for turning in your old battery as it is your item and they want to reuse them.
Reman usually also means, in the same spec as new, which probably in terms of batteries is a bit different.
Every single battery issue I've seen has been from someone that is
driving a ton of miles every year + super charging exclusively
Kim Java showcased one guy who was driving 100K miles per year!!!! He was doing ride share, so of course, if you're putting that many miles on your car, you have no choice but to super charge. I know Tesla recently came out and said super charging has no negative impact on the battery. Admittedly, I've only seen 5 battery issue videos, but the pattern was always the same.
I will agree with you that once a battery is out of warranty, if I have to pay $15k for a new battery, I should also receive credit for the battery I'm giving back. For example, I'm getting a new dishwasher today and for $50, they're taking away my old one. The only reason why they're only charging me $50 is because they're going to sell my old one for sure.
I also would LOVE getting to the point where we could plug a diagnostic tool into an EV and find out, hey, 95% of the batteries are actually fine. Replace these batteries with new ones and your pack is actually fine. We all know old packs get recycled, but I'm sure when they do, they check each one and they don't even bother recycling the good ones.
@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403 wrong, plenty of people made report of low mileage and AC charge batteries failing.
From all the diy repair video or forum post that I've seen, the most common issue is humidity in the battery, which is not related to driving style.
@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403 I don’t think you can replace individual cells in your Tesla battery pack.
I suspect the 4680 battery packs should have less of these "bad" cell issues because of the tabless design. Those tabs on typical battery cells are the weakest link. With all the high energy demands put through those tabs, if one wasn't properly welded to the collector or the cathode and anode, heat will degrade the connection an eventually lead to a failure.
Theres still a connector...
@@wizzyno1566 yes, but the contact area is spread more. so theres less chance of something going wrong during assembly or during operation.
Comment about the warranty rework is spot on.
i have not found a video yet where and ev owner is raving about how much they love their ev and how it has made their life so much better and how it was the absolute best decision they have ever made and that the recommend that every one in the world need one cause it will make their life so much better.
Precisely why I still have 16yr old Hyundai i30 with 140, 000 miles on it 😁
Thanks for sharing. I couldn’t deal with range anxiety, much less lemon battery anxiety 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
I hate to come off like I'm attacking you, but I wonder what are you doing to your car? Are you charging to 100% every night? Did you have the A/C go out at some point and not get it fixed for a while? I've got a 2016 model X that only has 68k miles on it. I have charged it nightly or every other day to 85% and go cross country once a year. The night before is the only time I ever go to 100%, then try to get to the next supercharger with at least 15% left. It still seems to have 95% of its original capacity after 7 years. Am I just lucky, or have I been taking care of it the right way?
Doesn't that mean that your range really isn't your range unless you plan (or don't plan) on ruining your battery? Your 300 (or whatever) miles is effectively 210 if you actually want to keep your car.
What a shame, people buy electric cars and then get told if they fully charge or discharge it it’ll destroy the battery. So you get 60% of the battery you paid 100% for. 😂🤣. God bless electric car people, they’re going to need it.
@@sicilianr1 No, it is not if you do it it will destroy your battery. It is the more you do it, the less life your battery will have, so avoid doing it all the bloody time when you don't have to. And when you can charge at home, it's pretty darn easy to avoid most of the time.
That seems like you’re having to compromise as the customer and baby the car far more than is necessary with alternative drive systems. All vehicles depreciate, but I know a 5 year old Audi still has the same range as a day 1 Audi because the fuel tank doesn’t shrink.
@@WSKRBSCTit just means that he has the choice to charge it to 80 or 100%
Good info, thanks.
1. How often did you charge above 80%? 90%? 95%?
2. How often did you supercharge?
Yeah. Imagine damaging by fully charging. These Tesla always have extra capacity
That's like the shop guy saying:
"Did you use the stereo at full volume ?"
If it cannot cope, why should it be able to give so many watts to the speakers....?!!!!!!
Today there is no excuse to limit the probability of the not technical user to damage the product (except for rough All Terrain or careless driving bunping against physical things on purpose...)
Exactly what I was thinking. It sounds like this guy was an Uber driver supercharging to 100% every time. No quicker way to mess up the battery.
I wonder what happens when your battery fails after the warranty expires and you have to pay for a "new" pack? It seems to me you should get a brand new pack in that situation and the same should apply if your pack goes bad in say the first 30,000 miles.
What happened to the instant pack replacement drive thru?
I am going to stick to my ICE vehicles for as long as possible. If I have to move to something else, I hope I would be able to find a hybrid to replace them. You explained a lot in this video. Great job!
agreed. wish EV's were more reliable. I've driven an old prius hybrid a bit and not the greatest ride experience but still super reliable! I should note that I drive very little so I 'justify' my carbon footprint that way. for now.
First of all, this is a rare occurrence. My family have two Teslas, a P85D with a little more than 200k miles on it, and with the original battery package, and the other is an S70 that had a similar problem as this gentleman had but at about 87k miles on it, the battery was replaced in 2019, and had no problems since then. I have followed all Tesla's recommendations, and here we are. And those two cars have been the most reliable vehicles we ever had- no maintenance expenses, no brake problems, nothing!!!! The only problems are they are heavy vehicles so they wear tires faster than regular cars. But asides from that, no problems. I think this gentleman got a Lemon Tesla, and that could happen. Maybe he would need to trade-in for another Tesla. That would be my advice. But Any Tesla, even this one, is WAY better than any crappy ICE car, new or old.
So out of 2 cars one needed a replacement battery before100k miles? That doesn't sound so promising, if I buy an ice car and I need a new engine at 80k miles I'm never buying another car from the same brand.
@@Cornelius87 🎯
@@danbert6039 You understand the issue. I worry about my carbon footprint too. My home is setup to waste as little energy as possible. However, because I am always hauling, I have to get as many miles as possible without worrying about time constraints. I would love an EV that could haul as far as my ICE (fillup vs full charge). That’s why I know that if more hybrids stepped up, I would move into the category. When I looked to move over, the 09 Chevy Silverado hybrid only had half the towing capacity of my ICE.
To be fair, ICE manufacturer's frequently use remanufactured components whenever possible. Like if an engine or transmission fails and they have a remanufactured part option, that is what they use. They are supposed to meet certain specifications so it should be a good reliable part. As you say, it would be useful to know if this is a common failure or not.
I don't own an EV but wouldn't mind having one as a second car for daily short trips within its range. I just can't justify it until the prices come down. I am curious about reliability issues, I know everyone thought that because of far less moving parts EV's would be significantly more reliable. As an engineer that works with and repairs MRI systems (also practically no moving parts) I was/am very skeptical of that assertion.
That is another big issue with EV's, there are almost no 3rd party options for parts and repairs. I can't help but think that a high reliability fuel efficient ICE car like a Toyota would make a lot more sense for doing LYFT/Uber.
I use a Prius for Uber, I have a blown head gasket. ICE sucks too.
@@andypeterson2126 A blown head gasket on a Prius? That is extremely unusual, I have seen many ICE cars run for well over 300,000 miles with just basic maintenance. Especially high usage service vehicles because most of the wear and tear comes from the cold starts. It is not unusual to see ICE cabs go well over half a million miles on the original engine.
This is what we already know about ICE cars, if it's a good design and properly maintained, ICE cars do really well with high usage applications (in general). With EV's we don't have a lot of data yet. For example we know that the batteries are damaged more if you use a lot of fast charging, let them get below 40% or charge them over 80%, charge them when they are hot or to cold. Perhaps that is why this gentlemen is going through so many batteries. It could be in his type of usage he is doing one or all of these things frequently. Also I have heard that some cars (high end models) have much better battery heating and cooling systems. As I understand it the Model Y is a relatively low cost EV for Tesla and does not have the best temperature control system. It could be for this type of usage you need a more heavy duty system to hold up to the stress of this type of usage. Whereas this car is designed more for mainly average light usage. Also those new larger cells that Tesla developed are much better as well so...
It is still a relatively new technology and they are clearly still working out several issues. This is why a good ICE car is still a much safer bet. Especially when you have to depend on it for revenue and you are on a budget. Then there is the fact that practically anyone can work on and get parts for an ICE car. These are very important factors when you are relying on it for your livelihood.
I am just guessing here but it seems to make sense.
@@ericmichel3857 I don’t know from my research from the Internet. It seems like my EGR valve and I want for my air intake manifold. I’ll probably clogged carbon and it might have been the reason for the overheating which might have warped the motor and or destroyed my head gasket in my Prius
@@ericmichel3857 Interesting have you thought how much you would have spent on fuel at 500,000kms, compared to say being able to charge an EV at off peak rates. The average car in Australia uses 11l/100km (ABS), petrol costs about $2 a litre, therefore at 500k you would have spent $110,000 on fuel, before we consider the maintenance costs of keeping an ICE vehicle on the road that long. In my EV I use 12kwh/100km and can charge at 7c/kwh, therefore the electricity cost for the same kms is $4,200, my car has a 60kwh LFP battery pack, which is likely to have a longer life than Li NMC and be cheaper to replace.
Uhhh no. When a component on an ICE vehicle fails it is replaced with a new OEM component. I have never received remanufactured components for any repairs done on my ICE vehicles.
Thanks for sharing your experience. That's very disappointing and disturbing as well to hear. They should be more responsible for their product.
I agree. Everytime u get a new or refurbished battery they need to have another warrantyperiod
They should have a pro-rated warranty based on distance and years.
This exactly!
They do 10 years or 120000miles
Out of warranty pack only has 4 year or 40k mile warranty which is a joke for 15k plus cost
Just another way we get bent over by a company
@@DeyofamilyThat's a better warranty than you're going to get from any legacy manufacturer on the gas engine they're going to replace for you.
You are more patient than I. After the 2nd failure I would have traded in the car and bought new (or at least if it made financial sense, which maybe it didn’t). That said, not certain I would buy another Tesla. The only way for manufacturers to maintain customers is to treat them fairly and honestly. With today’s ICE with recommended oil changes, etc. 200K miles should be achievable. Good luck with your battery. I would suggest you take a preventative step and take it back to the dealer at first signs of deep incline of range (hopefully, before warranty period ends).
how often did you supercharge??
Exactly my issue right now now. I’m on my second battery pack and I just got it the end of November 2023. It’s March 2024 and it won’t charge now 😢
love my 21 TACOMA PAID OFF AND IM KEEPING IT FOR A LONG TIME