The issue is the sudden deaths definitely happen and unlike a car I can't go grab a used one for 1500$ and drop it in the car is just a toatal loss at that point
Andy is the reason i wanted to buy a tesla. I bought it back in 2020, 1 year after purchasing my tesla i was in a car accident and i truly think Tesla saved my life. when firefighter paramedics came to check on me they told me that if the car wasn't as bottom heavy as it was i would have most likely rolled. i came out of the accident with a totaled car and no injuries other than a mild concussion, bumps, bruises and scratches. Thank you Tesla for making the safest rated car in the world.
That's funny...a car without a glass roof rolled down a cliff and the people didn't even need emergency services to get out. And it was a Hyundai Elantra. Better results regardless of ending position...one third the cost.
@CozmicTaco Agree as it's a quality vehicle. But then again, neither is a Tesla. Same lower build quality, but the Hyundai is 1/3 as much money. And is less reliant on software.
Mileage is not the concern. Calendar time is the big issue. I've had various battery chemistries in various plug-in hybrid models. The company I worked for had a fleet of hybrids. Pretty consistently, at around year 10, regardless of mileage or battery chemistry, batteries start failing.
In regards to your concerns about the battery health of 7% I am wondering whether the display is correct but sort of inversed. You have a range score of 93 (%?) yet a battery health of 7% (add both figures and get 100). Could it actually be that the battery has only degraded 7%, ie 93% healthy? I hope you find the answer.
Battery capacity is not the only measure of battery health and some of the warnings and failure reports are hidden from the owners by tesla. In one reported incident, the owner used the diagnostic program to check on the battery and it warned him an error in one of the battery modules. Tesla fixed the problem by having the diagnostic program stop reporting the problem.
@@adam060577 No - it 100% is NOT - that's a fact, I'm not guessing. Does that mean my 4 month old car - which reads 100% on that test is 100% unhealthy ? You're a clown. Check the 100's of other videos showing results in the 80% plus range for same car - and keep dreaming about owning a Tesla!
The battery replacement is about $20,000. Car isn’t worth half that at this point. That’s why buying them used is buyer beware because, even on a test drive, you have no real idea of the condition of the battery.
So, for a buyer to consider buying a high mileage Electric car, it must be cheap, because I know that I will have to plan to service the battery in the near future!
Fantastic video! I would imagine that 7% is the amount of degradation, meaning you've lost 7% of battery life, which would align with what you are seeing on the Recurrent page or a close approximation at least (310 - 7%= 288.3). On a side note, it's mind-blowing how well it's holding up. I don't drive nearly as much, so I can only imagine that in cases like mine, the battery could possibly last 10 years easily. In my current car, I only have 13K miles after 2 years of ownership, and I don't see it getting over 30K before I sell it. It makes me wonder if manufacturers should all start valuing EVs, based on battery health and not just mileage, similar to what Recurrent is doing. It only makes sense to do so in a car that has very few wear items on it. The old system made sense because engines had only a certain life before they started giving issues, but now, it doesn't make sense to keep the current system for EVs.
@@Slider_84 Yeah, I mostly only drive to and from work, pickup the kids from school, occasional Costco runs, and once in a while a short vacation trip. Daily though I only drive about 30 or so miles.
It also seemed to me that the 93 range score may mean that you have lost only 7% of charging capacity. I suggest you check with Tesla and use the info to publish a follow up video.
I've had two batteries fail in my 21 Model 3 Performance. One day it says, unable to charge contact service. Both have been under warranty, so I looked up how much a used battery is just in case the day comes when I need a replacement on my dime. Searching on car-part, there are multiple batteries for sale for $3000.00. I would consider this similar to needing a new motor in an ICE car. You can also balance the battery and re-run the battery health test.
This is why the Service mode is for professionals and not for everyone. As others already said, the 7% is the number of the battery degradation in the case of your LR. Being that the range number seen at 100% isn’t a number based on past driving history but on a BMS algorithm computation, the degradation of the battery can’t be determined easily by owners. Especially in cases when people use their car only for driving 30-40 miles a day. In those cases the range number is fluctuating because the BMS can’t read the max and the min voltage of the battery pack. So drive once in a while your battery from 100% to 3-5% SOC in a single run (no stop) to help the BMS to relearn the real Min and max cells voltage on your pack.
Or people could just be taught or the instructions could be clear. It says battery health 7/%. Not battery drag ruin 7%. So it's unclear and y'all tryna get on dude like it's funny.
"They" on purpose use confuscating language in order to maintain the monopoly of repair and knowledge over the car. They could easily described the item in normal understandable language like "Total battery degradation on this battery since you received it new". That would do it and any child would understand it instead of this lawyer yibberish not even the judge understands lest the jury which normally has no clue whats going on and thus relies completely on emotions. Put that description in clear language and then no "professional" is needed to read a simple book.
Did you do a follow-up on this to get a Tesla interpretation of what "7%" is supposed to mean? What about the other data provided by doing the test, what does it mean? Would you consider running the test on her/your Model Y for comparison?
@@genisphyla Consumer Reports and Edmunds tell a vastly different story vs. this video and these comments. Further, the recent Chicago area cold temps showed the world what really happens with EVs in cold weather. The "range" numbers drop unbelievably. Nope...I think I'll take Consumer Reports & Edmund's word and stick to my Toyota ICE with a battery that I can buy at O'Reilly's and install myself without spending 20 or 30 grand. Or tires that wear prematurely and cost 2 grand to replace.
Toyota, Škoda diesels one 13 years old the other 15 years old with over 300,000 miles each on the clock, and both cars still running fine, using no oil between changes, and the fuel consumption being pretty much the same as when they were new. Should your Tesla manage to achieve a similar age and mileage, I wonder what state the battery would be in. The other thing that I would find interesting would be, how a Tesla with say 200,000 miles or so on the clock sell on? Used car dealers here in the UK seem reluctant to take in part exchange high mileage EVs........
I don’t think you have much to worry about, we live near Vancouver Canada which is a magnet for thousands of TESLA’s (there are five on our street alone) of various models primarily 3’s and Y’s even saw a PLAID the other day. Considering the S has been around for over ten years I have never heard of a battery or electric motor failure in a S or any other TESLA for that matter.
Renault has addressed this issue by offering to lease the battery instead of owning it. It is like a permanent warranty, or an insurance, at a monthly cost. Right now it’s about $74 per month. Less than one gas fill up (~$8+ per gallon in Europe).
hm this insurance has the potential to go very wrong imagine your tesla battery dies on its last year of warranty you will get a new one for free meaning you would have payed 7200$ of insurance with the renault for nothing
I have done approx 20k miles on a 2022 Model Y LR in 8 months. I plan on keeping it until I can no longer drive. (I am on my lay 50s now). Will replay the battery as needed. So I would say keep it….
00:55 🔋 Tesla's 2022 impact report suggests that even after 200,000 miles, their batteries only lose an average of 12% of their capacity. 02:04 🛡 Tesla's warranty ensures at least 70% retention of battery capacity over eight years or 120,000 miles. 02:45 📊 Recurrent offers free battery performance reports for EVs, analyzing daily data and providing insights on range and charging. 03:41 🚗 Real-world tests and apps like Recurrent help track battery health beyond estimated range. 04:09 🔍 Accessing Tesla's service menu allows an official battery health test that may take up to 24 hours. 05:19 📉 A Tesla Model 3 showed 7% battery health despite still maintaining a good estimated range of around 280 miles. 06:00 🤔 Questions arise about the significance of 7% battery health and its implications for future battery life or replacement. 07:36 💸 Tesla's replacement cost for a Model 3 battery is around $16,550, comprising labor and parts. 08:32 🚗 Despite a 10% degradation after 120,000 miles, healthy charging habits contributed to a Model 3's excellent range score of 93%.
It could be 7% loss, and I hope it is. But could also be increased internal resistance, which doesn’t directly affect capacity though they happen simultaneously. Internal resistance affects amps hence watts. Is acceleration reduced?
All these maths don't mean anything until you actually go through the ownership cycle. Most people won't experience any of it as they change cars on average 3-5 years. It really applied to those that keeps their vehicles 10 years or more, which is me. I am not against EVs in general but not for it either. I think there's better alternative, and still waiting for more options. But it's definitely makes for a good dinner table discussion.
This reminds me of the time I went to a health portal and misread test results to mean I had cancer. Feels great when you find out from a professional that you are wrong.
The cost to replace a Tesla battery can range from $5,000 to $22,000, depending on the model and whether the replacement is covered by warranty: Model 3: A replacement battery for a Tesla Model 3 costs around $13,000 to $17,000. Model S: A replacement battery for a Tesla Model S costs around $13,000 to $20,000. Model X: A replacement battery for a Tesla Model X premium SUV costs at least $14,000. Cybertruck: A replacement range-extender battery for a Tesla Cybertruck costs an estimated $16,000.
If youre concerned about battery degradation, just buy the LR model. Even with the off chance that down the line it has 30%-40% degradation, it should still have plenty of range for the everyday drive.
Actually, if daily driving is the concern, it's as good or better to buy the standard range, which is recommended to be charged to 100%, which gives as much range as a long range charged to 80%, and twice the expected cycle life, due to its lithium iron phosphate battery.
@@bearcubdaycare That has not been proven. Most of the highest mileage Model 3 recorded are actually LR not LFP batteries per reports shown in the Electric Viking channel.
I'm about to surpass 100k miles on my 2018 and my range loss from 310 miles is down to around 294 to 297. I have ran my car to less than 10% several times and range charge on road trips and about once every 6 to 8 weeks. Recently discovered that charging to various percentages maintains the most accurate on screen readings. So some times 70% 80% but the majority of my charging ends up at 90%. In 2021 it was only charging to 283-285 for the whole summer and then increased by the end of the year and there has been no drop in my range since then. It's all relative 😁
My 2020 Model S has lost 1% range after 80,000 miles driven. There are three issues that adversely impact battery life: 1. Times supercharged 2. Times charged to 100% or Times driven to 10% (or less) 3. Times you do 0-60 launches in performance vehicles. If you take care of your batteries they will last hundreds of thousands of miles.
No, they won't... nobody had to replace a battery due to degradation. It's always something else that fails (electronic, a single cell failing, ...). And that can happen anytime. Just see how many used Tesla S are on sale with a replaced battery pack way before reaching 200k moles.
@Axethales from what I saw it's also very often the BMS that fails or water ingress that causes issues. And it also doesn't seems related to supercharging or abuse
I think the sweet spot for charging is 90 percent everyone says 80 but when I bought my 23 model y long range it was draining the battery fast after I started charging at 90 percent it fixed all the problems and the car responds 100 percent better
@@scorchedearth1451 You need your phone to lie to you about it’s actually battery capacity? You can set your Tesla to charge at whatever % you want, but it won’t lie to you & tell you a 80% charged battery is 100% charged. A car lying to you about it’s fuel percentage puts you at risk of being stranded.
I've already lost almost 20% on a 2020 DMP. Now full charge went from 315 down to 259 as max charge. (this is after several BMS recalibrations) A net loss of 18% over three (3) years. NOT good. Battery life of a Tesla battery is still the great unknown. Andy shows a vehicle no longer being produced by GM, so thats a bad example. 06:35
The big battery on my 2019 model X died a few months ago, thankfully it was under warranty. My initial warranty is up in September and I’m trying to decide if I should buy the extended warranty? Does anyone have thoughts on it?
Unfortunately, the extended warranty is separate from the battery and does not extend the battery warranty beyond the original mileage. As a result, I don’t think purchasing the extended warranty would give you the additional coverage you were implying you wanted. Personally, I was confused why Tesla even created an extended warranty that did not include the battery.
@@bwolf8099 I prefer the big screen on my X so I’m leaning towards keeping it. I’m contemplating the warranty to cover the other features like falcon wing doors. I don’t like that there is the $200 deductible.
I have a 2020 M3 LR that’s set to hit 120k this week. I am not like most and charge my battery to 100% every day/ chance I get. I’m interested in seeing how my battery has held up verses someone who charges only to 80%.
Me too often charging to 100%! My friend had 3 Ev's and did the same on 2 of them - and difference with the 3rd one was miserable (after 5 years)..So it looks more like a myth, but we'll see.
@@MFrrFrr my thought on not charging to 100% is, if it isn’t meant to do it they wouldn’t allow it to. May be a bad way to look at it but I’m sure Tesla has that all figured out.
Weighing the cost of battery replacement against the cost of a new car might lead one to just go with a new battery and save 30K on a new car purchase. However, I personally would be concerned about the drive assembly and the rest of the car's systems after more than a decade on the road. All these concerns have lead me to be skeptical about buying a used EV but you have at least shown that the battery question is less of a concern than I imagined, at least for a used Tesla.
@tiloalo your right all of the people complaining about their ev batteries aren't about degradation but of sudden failure not under warranty. People like to overlook this and argue they can go for 300,000 miles. Also another issue with Ev batteries are they can spontaneously catch fire and take hours to put out as they keep catching on fire over and over and over
Best view is its either a glitch or needing some other way to interpret result. Very reassuring video either way Andy for so many concerned about the battery life.
@@alexnutcasio936 Did you even watch the video? The Recurrent app gave him a range score of 93, and his admittedly not too accurate "charge up and drive down" calculations came in at "around 90%". Certainly, all these would be in acceptable margins of error if, indeed. the "7" in question meant the amount of degradation that had taken place.
Queensland Australia. I have 2019 Model 3 standard range, now 110 000 KM started with 340 km range, now 320 km range. Using power from my solar panels and home battery. 5 years only cost 4 new tyres (plus ins. rego etc) Twice had to steal some air from a petrol station.
Out of Spec Reviews got the same puzzling result, and he charges only to 50-70% at home. Like others have suggested, it’s more likely the 7% is your battery degradation. Your current range estimates are consistent with 7% degradation.
That doesn't make sense at all. iPhones also have battery healthy which counts down from 100%. 7% does really mean it is reaching end of it's life but how do you define end of life? That's defined by Tesla. The battery may well perform 70% capacity after 200K miles.
@@user-fx5sw4jy7hYz9Hzi In my mind, it makes sense. It seems to me that their intention is giving a percentage to the range you can expect at a full charge. If the range when brand new is 310 miles at 100%, and then you subtract this 7% figure, you end up at 288.3 miles of range when charged to 100%. So in essence, you've lost 7% of range when at 100% full charge. Which aligns with both what the screen on the Tesla says and what the Recurrent website shows.
@@ProXcaliberI did the rudimentary math after charging my 2019 M3P to 100%. It showed 285 miles. Based on a starting point of 310 miles that’s 8% degradation. Not as entailed as the service mode option performed here but seems to correlate.
@@mrh3085 Then you would be correct! The only other way to get a more concrete answer is to take it to Tesla directly and have them do a full service of the battery.
@@LuckyAeon It depends on where you are. Gruber Motors in the US. In europe a number of 3rd party service partners by EVhub in Norway. Much cheaper than Tesla.
And for lower volume cars with proprietary packs that are not Tesla? Gonna be some unhappy owners at some point when warranties start ending on a lot of the BEVs sold in the last couple years in the US.
Great info, early cars like my Nissan leaf 2012 had no thermal management aka cooling so they degraded a lot quicker only have 30mi range on my leaf it's over 10 years old I'm considering dismantling the pack identifying bad modules and changing them out
Thats the problem with the Leaf. Much as I am not a Tesla fanboi, the battery management is very good when it comes to thermal management. As for rebuilding the battery pack, I would suggest it is a fraught exercise because you will be chasing your tail with other cells dying weeks or days after you rebuilt it. Not to mention the hazards of dealing with a high voltage battery pack and trying to match the new cells with old cells so they are compatible with the charging system. A good way to burn your car if the new cells don't like being charged as much or they keep the charging going longer on the old cells. A lot of DIY home battery and DIY scooter builds show a bad history.
I would recalibrate my BMS first. You can do this by depleting your battery to a percentage lower than 10%, leave it there for at least an hour, and then charge it up to 100% until the charger stops adding energy to the battery. Then go for a drive to bring it back down to your normal 80-90%. You may need to do this a couple of times. I'm getting pretty close to that 120k milestone too. I do have a Cybertruck reserved, so I need to make a decision to either keep both vehicles or sell the Model 3 that's out of warranty by then. Tough call...I really love my Model 3!
One thing people never talks about it’s when 8:40 teslas get total there goes the battery as well or they get recicle or what or you can buy a used one for half price or less Cause I want to put a tesla package on a 50s f 100 truck I know it’s been done already
@@davidbeppler3032there are no special tools needed to run the battery health test. When out of spec got a similar result as Andy, Kyle contacted Tesla service who confirmed there's a bug in the system that was causing incorrect battery health test results.
my 2015 model S with 126k miles just die :/ that's how I got to this video. It is funny that it went out at 126K miles and the warranty covers until 125K 🙃
I have a performance at 140,000kms. I spent 3 months last year travelling in the car using superchargers. When I did the test, I got 86%. I am keeping it until it's dead. But I think a important thing to keep in mind is the battery pack price is going down. With faster and better manufacturing and improvements in scale. That price is dropping like the price to buy the car new.
Tesla has honestly reach their economy of scale and by the time you're replacing it I doubt they will use the same battery technology. You'll probably be using refurbished batteries that people combine good cells with.
I think he question is not only if something happens to the battery after warranty. The question is also what the „no warranty“ risk is doing to the used market price of the vehicle. At one point you say „should I buy the vehicle?“ - even if you sold the vehicle the state of the battery would be considered in the price you get.
At 10 years I had 105,000 miles on my model S. Battery failed, 16,000 dollars later, and I have less range than the first battery, I can’t recommend buying the replacement battery , it’s junk
Andy, you car is doing better than mine. I have not done the health test. Currently my car at 100% gets 279 miles range, at 80% it gets 214 miles. My odometer is 53,000+ miles :(
You are going to learn something painful. By 10 years, your car will be worth exactly $0.00. Why? Because by the time you sell your car, the world will be very aware that 10 years is the real expected life of the battery. Battery replacements and repairs will not get cheaper. You will be asked how old is your battery, and at 10 years old, it's considered a scrap car. Mark my words, you will lose whatever savings you think you were going to get owning a Tesla. It will be a complete money pit for you by the time you reach 10 years.
@@bn880 Even Franz said 10 years on Leno's Garage. He's literally Mr Tesla. Why wouldn't any fanboys listen to Mr Tesla when he tells them they and the environment are screwed with expensive and environmentally bad battery replacements? You can google so many battery experts telling you the same thing. Expect 10 years. You might get 15, but do you feel that lucky? If so, bet all your money on #16 in Roulette, because your odds are about the same.
Congratulations on reaching such an impressive milestone with your 2018 Tesla Model 3! With a range score of 93 and only a 10% degradation after 120,000 miles, it's understandable why you're inclined to continue driving your Model 3 confidently. For me I'd still drive it but will continue to monitor battery health closely while adhering to best charging practices. Hope that in the future they have a charging limiter for these.
I own a 2021 Model 3 SR+, with 31,000 miles on it thus far. Here’s my take on this non-issue: IF my car needs a new battery pack (and that’s a gigantic IF) and it’s out of warranty, I’ll get a new pack. Far cheaper than getting a new car (average new car price is $45,000 now). The Tesla is reliable, and it gets OTA updates which keeps it current and fresh. A new battery pack would let me keep driving my fun, cheap, and easy to live with Tesla? That’s an easy choice for me!
So, if I am reading you correctly, you're willing to spend (lets say $14,000) for a new SR battery in 6 years when your car has a value of $15,000? Sure , makes sense to me , LOL.
@@alexnutcasio936 Battery costs keep falling and technology keeps improving, In 6 years time they probably won’t cost 14K,and there will likely be even more service shops out there who will fix rather than replace the battery. 6 years is a long time so highly doubtful things will be the same/cost the same as today. That’s the metric I’ve used when ordering our Model 3. 8 year 192000 km warranty, we drive 15000 km per year so I’m happy with that. We plan on keeping ours for 10 years.
@@alexnutcasio936 like I said, batteries will be alot cheaper by then so who cares? 10 years is a very long way away. Plenty of ICE cars needing expensive engine and or transmission repairs at that age and even younger. How many of them have 8 year 192000 km warranties? The stories of ICE car owners having very expensive repair bills just out of warranty are plentiful. There are model 3 owners whose vehicles have done 100k miles and even some 200k miles, no battery replacement necessary.
@@gbw28 haven’t seen a single Model 3 anywhere with 200k miles. It’s not unusual for a modern ICE engine to go 200k miles without any major issues and if it’s a diesel, 400-500k miles is not unheard of . P,Ys, a new JCE engine is more like $3-5$k, not $25k for a battery. The cost advantage is still with the ice long term.
Mine in S suddenly went to 11% @ 260.000mls. But it was not reality. It took $4000 to replace a few faulty cells and regenerate it. It is back to 96%, now @ 285.000mls. I think that the major problem is that a vast majority do not see outside of Tesla service network. There's a network of independent Tesla servicers now, and they know about them. There is a lot of inside knowledge, and a lot can be rebuilt, it's electronics.
Supercharging is the weakness of these batteries, increased cell death and reduced cycle life. They should add something like a warranty limitation for Supercharging then add more warranty for age and mileage. LFP batteries appears to be more robust and would like to finally see it in the Model Y
not true. Actual statistical analysis of real cars shows no statistical difference between cars mostly supercharged vs. cars that seldom supercharged. Why? Probably because the BMS ensures that heat is kept within reasonable levels in either case. The rate of charge when heat is kept within reasonable range is also theoretically not relevant in actual research at Stanford so we have two clear pieces of evidence that Supercharging is not degrading packs
@@climatenomad It's because Tesla replaces these packs under warranty, citing it as manufacturing defect. Many packs that are used for ride hailing consistently failed or lose modules or drop to half the range under frequent Supercharging. Whereas the expected effect is gradual loss of maximum range. I've heard many high mileage Teslas that did not have any issue with their battery packs that seldom SUpercharge
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Long Range - Single Motor - 5 years - 101,000 miles Have been charging for 5 years at the Super Chargers (Free). 2018 - 310 miles / 2023 - 295 miles - Still at 95%. Keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks for the Video
As stated below, your 7% doesn't sound bad at all. My 2018 Model 3 RWD LR is about at the same state. Also bear in mind that based on my Michigan experience battery SOC is extremally temperature dependent. I drive a 100 mile route almost weekly in temperature ranges from -7 to 100 F at a nearly constant speed of 60 MPH. At 75F the range estimate is nearly perfect, at times during a morning drive gong from a crisp to warm morning, I have even experienced range increase! As you state, it is mostly about battery chemistry. and most 3s and Ys have the 21700 battery. That being said, your original 310 miles of range is the benchmark of a brand new battery pack and you can expect a 3-4% drop as the battery "settles in" over the first year or two. Then expect a 1-2% drop over the next several years. Depending on your charging habits, that drop off should somewhat flatten if you only use supercharging sparingly and generally keep your charging cycle to 20 to 80% (roughly 60 to 250 miles range) at level 2 charging. Then I would expect the battery to be serviceable for another 10 to 20 years. Some "tricks" to long battery life; charge as soon as you can if below 40% and try not to leave the car sitting with a low battery, that is the worst. Only charge to 100% occasionally when you know you will want the the extra miles right away. Long term sitting (I define as over 2 weeks), best if you can leave it plugged in at level 1 or 2 and set the charge to 50 to 60% If you need to let it sit without being plugged in long term, I would try to leave it around 70% and leave things like security monitoring off and resist the temptation to keep checking the phone app. This allows it to go into "deep sleep" and will minimize "phantom drain". Anyone with and comments, suggestions or experience please do so.
What you said is most impressive, but its also total speculation. Objectively, we don't know how much and to what level to charge to as Tesla has often changed their guidance over the years (just ask Like Tesla Kim). Even Toyota can not agree on that level to charge their Prime vehicles, but they do know what they charge their hybrids to and its typically between 20-80%. Given that, we're speculating that 20-80 is the perfect range for a Tesla battery buy no one knows ( since at least 2018 models) how long a Model 3 or Y battery (2020) will go before needing replacement. In fact, we're just getting the Model S and X indicators now and the S clearly shows that after a few years (define a few) that the S battery from the S 75 or the S60 now need replacement, so they are essentially paperweights at this point since replacement exceeds fair market value of vehicle. Basically, its all anecdotal and supposition at this point. Tesla insists that supercharging is not bad for a battery, but many claim or believe otherwise. So, we don't know what we don't know.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. The only thing I do (bc of commute daily) is charge to 90%. Off days, 20% to 70% or 80%. 2170 cells are like magic rocks. The chemistry with these batteries are awesome. Let’s hope the 4680’s do well in project highland. 🤷🏽
@@alexnutcasio936 depends so much on the type of battery. Our ModY uses LFP (HV)and Li-ion for the low voltage. So charging regularly to 100% is the preferred method. Since the individual battery’s voltage range is much narrower than Li-ion so less mechanical and chemical change/wear. LFP batteries should hold their SOH and range much longer than Li-ion.
@@alexnutcasio936 How can you compare the batteries from Model S from 2014 laptops to the EV batteries in 2020 Model 3/Y? They are different chemistry, form factor, quality control, battery management, cooling, and charging. I expect my TM3LR to last more than 20 years and a million miles. Just based on battery degradation statistics. We have the math.
I was interested in a used, early Tesla Model S for $15,000. However, two things stopped me from becoming an EV owner. One was the $400 per month insurance, more than what I pay for both insurance and my current ICE car payment. The other was the fear of what it would cost if I needed to replace anything, including the battery.
@@mrnarason You are right, I shouldn't expect an older luxury car to be cheap anymore. It's not like back in the day that different cars were just rebranded as different models with a few more add-ons. Remember when you could swap a Chevy engine into any GMC, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, or Corvette? I was really hoping to get an EV as my next vehicle. In my state I could get a Chevy Bolt for as little as $14,000 if I owed enough taxes at the end of the year. Sadly I can't make it happen and the Bolt is therefore pushed out of my budget. However, now I'm kind of glad I can't get one seeing how on Transport Evolved it cost $3,000 just to fix the A/C on a Bolt. So I guess no EV for me for a long while.
True, and a difference is the number of systems that can go wrong with an old ICE vehicle. Even with a engine and/or a tranny replacement, there's still the exhaust system and the cooling system (replace radiator), belts and hoses. With an EV there's just the battery and the motor; and supposedly the motors are million mile motors. Tires and steering is common to both ICE and EV. So with an EV, for approx 15k battery replacement you can get pretty much a new car. (corrosion is probably the biggest limiting factor).
I bought a 2014 used Tesla model S, 6 years ago. I currently have 79k miles and was just told, by Tesla that i need a new battery 16k estimate. I would not recommend an EV.
For the record, Li-Ion battery chemistry is the same wherever that type of battery is used. So yes, Tesla batteries are exactly the same as the one used for a trolling motor, cell phone, laptop... The only difference is a cooling system which as you pointed out is better managed in cars than in cell phones :) Your battery health check results are therefore mostly accurate. Maybe not exact, but close enough for you to start worrying.
Not true. While the basic chemistry is the same, there are a lot of variable in manufacturing the battery from purity of elements, assembly environment, percent (recipe) of elements and the small percent of other elements added to the particular battery.
@@ohger1 All Li-Ion batteries are identical in the way they operate because they share the same internals. Purity of materials may make a slight difference in longevity but not a huge one. Most batteries are made by only a handful of manufacturers so variances are small. I'm talking about known brands like Samsung, LG, Panasonic and similar, not something obscure.
@@Steelologist The only thing identical about all lithium ion batteries is the voltage per cell. No two battery companies use the exact same chemistry (we'll ignore the exact manufacturing process here), and indeed, various chemistry patents defend that argument. A company like Samsung (for instance) makes all kinds of cells, from garbage pouch batteries for phones or cylindrical cells for laptops that they design to last a handful of years to high quality cells with different chemistry and different production techniques. Even taking battery electrical and thermal management off the table, cells used in EVs are not analogous to phone and laptop cells.
@@ohger1 Correct. Lithium ion cells are often dramatically different between manufacturers and even a manufacturer's own product lines. Just recently we've run across counterfeit lithium ion batteries that one of our buyers acquired on sample. They don't deliver rated AH and they don't last anywhere near as many cycles as quality producers - but they're still lithium ion.
@andy can you do a battery update? What is your health? I have a 2018 tm3 LR and at 83%. I have 65k miles and seems ok down 15% and has been rapidly the past 6 months.
you said how much you saved by not buying gas and oil etc. You never mentioned how much it costs to keep that vehicle charged for that period. electricity is not free.....just like lunch.
On the MG you're supposed to do a rebalance charge sometimes where you charge to 100%, then leave it on charge until it finishes the process. Does the Tesla not have something like that????
Another thing to keep in mind is that even if a battery degrades or has a bad module, it is still worth a lot of money. So just like replacing an engine in a gas car, with the bad engine being sold and rebuilt, so can a battery pack. Especially with a rise in EV battery recycling, a consumer would be able to make up a lot of the cost of a new battery by selling the old battery. This help offset the total cost of a new replacement if it happens outside of the warranty period. Tesla also launched its extended warranty which may also help ease some worrying. Realistically, if you aren’t strictly supercharging and follow Tesla’s recommended charging guidance you won’t have to worry.
This isn't all true. My 2013 was operating fine, but my car went to sleep and I has to take it to Tesla to wake it up and when the vehicle was returned... my battery was limited to 90 miles maximum. Out of warranty and the want to charge me $20k and no... there's no recycling discounts.
@@jamesstarks3676 Correct, it's absolute garbage. It's worth money to the recyclers, just like any scrap, but not to the owners, it's just another big repair bill.
@@tiloalo the packs are warrantied 10 years/ 100k miles. Yes people will buy it because it’s worth a lot to recycle or to just replace the modules and resell it. These batteries don’t go bad very often. You always see worst case scenarios all over the internet and most of them are BS.
@00:54 should the cost of running a gas car include replacing the engine? Keep this car and drive it into the ground like it was a first gen Nissan Leaf.
In Canada 2 reports of battery replacement (not tesla) $58k and $60k can. One was a Kia from memory. My new ICE diesel would cost $20k au as a comparison. So your $16k usd equates to $24.5k au, all other things being equal.
It would interesting to access each battery cell voltage. May be you need to do a full charge-discharge to have the BMS balancing the battery. You should try an OBd2 scan tool such as Scan My Tesla. It provides Battery degradation information and Cells voltage.
My P85D battery pack failed 20 days after warranty expired, 10 days after I bought it from a dealer, and the same morning I has a service center appointment with an unrelated issue… Dealer wanted to replace module(s) for 4K but would not honor implied warranty of merchantability in my state to replace full battery. It has been a 4 month long nightmare, to say the least. I would rather have the battery replaced, but I fear the other components will also need attention with 100k and 8 years old. So, I bought a new Model 3, but regret it because supercharging is a lot more expensive than I anticipated and is equal to the new car payment.
120,000 miles on a 40 mpg car is 3000 gallons, at say, $4/gallon that's $12,000 in savings. Plus not doing 40 oil changes (say $30 each) $1200. Let's say at least 2 brake changes (and no mechanic in the world just does brake changes, they always tell you you need a new rotor) add another $500. We're up to $13,700 towards a $20,000 battery if that ever fails.
After 26 months of operation, my MYLR has 72K km (roughly 44K miles). There have been 5 long road trips (Toronto to Orlando) and more are planned. I’m interested to do the test on my own car, but I’m a bit fearful of just what I might find…
Interesting! My brother in law has the same car you have with less than half the mileage to date. On a recent visit, we departed his home with a full charge, drove about 100 miles away on a 45 degree spring day, mostly expressway driving, and returned home later that day after sunset. I was surprised that the car needed a brief (10-15 minute) charge on the way home, based on projected range remaining. The nearest charge point available is 35 miles from their home, so there was no plan B option. B in L was not surprised. I understand that cabin heat can use a lot of range, but this was not a cold winter day. I would be disapointed if I could not complete a 200 mile "real world" trip on a spring day without charging.
@@davidbeppler3032 No... actually, I want a car I can drive 1000 miles on two 10 minute fuel stops... like my ten year old Honda Accord. Sure am glad it will run for another ten years and 125K miles. Not interested in a $70,000 car that requires me to accomodate its short comings.
@@billyjoejimbob56 : The crucial short-coming of your old Honda Accord is that it uses gasoline ! which must be pumped out of oil wells ! Those oil wells will be depleted in a couple of decades ! And it will take nature billions of years to replenish them ( out of dead bodies of creatures which are alive at this time !)
That's the cold hard truth of EV's at least at this point. If you plan on taking long trips over 5 hours you might as well buy and ICE vehicle. I've heard all kinds of fantastic claims about the range of EV's like the Model 3, but i know several people with them and they barely get 200 miles on a single charge. The battery technology just hasn't advanced far enough yet. I'll wait. I'm not gonna spend 38k on an electric car when it's a wash when you consider your electricity bills, limited range, etc. Just not worth it.
@@billyjoejimbob56 Exactly this. My car has the exact same range it had when it was built 14 years ago, I don't need to worry about charging it before I set off as I can get fuel just about anywhere. I don't have to plan my journey, need to follow a route on a screen, worry about chargers not working or people queuing to use them, for the same reason. When I do stop to fill up, usually after 400+ miles, I'm on my way again in 5 minutes. And anybody paying more than £500 or so a year for their leased car is already paying more than I paid to buy the car outright, in cash, zero % interest and will never make up the deficit in fuel savings. I'm speaking from the point of view of a UK resident but this isn't knocking EVs, it's quite simply the reality of buying (leasing) and running one.
My m3p's battery has failed its dropping by the day Tesla have remotely examined it and they will replace it, I'm impressed that Tesla can examine your car, and if it gets stolen I'm sure they could brick the car, haven't had the job done yet but hope it's a short wait I have expressed concern about the car burning but the onscreen message says range reduced but drivable, the car feels fine and range atm is ok, great car.
I only have 78k miles on mine and I’m just amazed at the quality of the drivetrain. My previous Subaru forester XT at 50k miles, the engine was already making ticking noises so I made the decision to trade it in while it was still worth something. 😂
Subarus make ticking noises when new because of direct injection system. It’s normal and not a sign of an issue. Not saying Subarus are the best cars out there. Just letting you know that it was fine.
The value of a 100k miles 2020 model 3 here in the uk is around 14k. if the battery goes you aint replacing it. Your just going to part the car out and be done with it. These are not cars that should be repaired. They should be recycled or scrapped once they battery life goes bad.
FYI to all - Had a 2019 Model 3 with 106,000 miles and was told by Tesla the battery was no longer able to work. Cost $13k for a refurbished with 4 years 50k warranty. Sold it and not sure if I would do it again. Perhaps mine was a rare case. The warranty on this one was 8 years and 100k miles. Not pleased, but it is what happened to me.
OMG what timing, TY! This is EXACTLY what I've been researching over the past 2 days. This has been my biggest fear and the reason I haven't bought a model Y yet.
Its a valid concern and a REAL fear. WHY? Because no one KNOWS insofar as the 3 and Y are concerned. We do know that batteries can and WILL degrade over time and use. We just don't know the hard numbers. The forums are replete with references to the original S batteries from 2012 and on and its not looking good long term. Many have been replaced or the car sold or traded due to degradation and loss of range.
@@JMC-ul1sw so you recommend? Thinking of getting a model Y long range, but the videos I watch are 50/50 been asking around in the comments, I’m so indecisive
I have seen some cars that said their battery was fine until a day or two before it dies. Where I live you have to reveal a known issue - so if you know the battery is at 7% you have to say that when selling or face a lawsuit.
My brother in law had a transmission go out on his 2014 minivan with 80,000 miles. The replacement cost is 8200 not counting the issues that had preceded it cost wise.
Hello Andy, I've been following your TH-cam page since 2018, and all of your post are always on point. Thanks for giving us the best reviews when it comes to products specifically Tesla model 3. I'm reaching out to see whether you received the software update with the Zoom feature for your 2018 model 3 and is it working? Currently, I have a 2018 and 2019 model 3 and I'm told by Tesla service that unless I install the FSD 3.0 computer I can't get the cabin camera to work. Please advise thanks much! RC
Glad to hear, presume the 7% is not bad. I dont drive much per year, and worry i would be wasting the car by letting it sit so much. The opposite of this, but still a concern: constant maintenance charging..what could go wrong? And Michael jorden is a dated example my man, though I did get the analogy!
Probably make it last longer , the less you drive the longer between your charging cycles , your battery could last forever if your charger cycles are far and few between Jay Leno owns a 1905 Baker electric , still runs today and only had batteries replaced once or twice in 100 years
Hey Andy, fantastic video as always! Really enjoyed hearing your insights. I'm also a proud owner of a Tesla Model 3 long range 2018, boasting 60,797 miles under my belt, and I've been the sole owner since day one. Just recently, I decided to run a battery health test for the first time, and to my surprise, it displayed an 84% capacity. Your experience with a 7% discrepancy raises some interesting questions; could it possibly be attributed to a software glitch? I'm curious to know if Tesla provided any insights or resolutions regarding this matter. Keep up the great content!
Nobody likes to buy a ICE car with generally over 100k let alone 200k you can forget it. Mileage doesn’t mean anything in the EV world - it’s batter health that is more important
@@MichaelMillerJ Running a cruze with 249K on it. Manual trans. It gets 175 miles a day most time. Turbo too. NOT a yard ornament. I cant even get a car into my yard!
I want to get an old Model S with the hope of retrofitting solid-state batteries in the future, but I don't know if that would even be possible. Battery degradation is not what puts me off buying one; it's more that I am afraid of the battery just dying entirely, which usually happens because one battery causes the whole cell to fail.
In the world of Prius cars, if a traction battery fault happens, some owners opt for bad cell replacement (a few hundred), rebuilt traction battery pack (about $1,500 installed w/3-year warranty) or all new non-oem cells (about $2,000) or Toyota dealer oem replacement (about $4,000). Alternatives not available in Tesla land?
It's almost been a year since this video came out, would you happen to have an update on battery health?
probably not good, including those $120 12volts constantly going bad
Yes, he does: th-cam.com/video/xp5kD9IPt44/w-d-xo.html
I asked the same
Out of spec did the same test on their model 3 and got a similar number. They contacted Tesla and they said it was a glitch.
he won't ! and if he does, it will be not the same car.
93% is a 7% loss from 100%. Your battery health is fabulous!
Mine is circa 88% at 98k I did a test on my channel
This is how I interpreted it too, lol.
yet you dont know when it goes bad instantly, there no wear marks for it to find to prevent this.
The issue is the sudden deaths definitely happen and unlike a car I can't go grab a used one for 1500$ and drop it in the car is just a toatal loss at that point
this is not true. it is not showing health lost, it is showing pack health. source - I work for Tesla.
I have a Model Y with 70k miles ... super happy with it.
what year? base? awd? long range? thanks
Andy is the reason i wanted to buy a tesla. I bought it back in 2020, 1 year after purchasing my tesla i was in a car accident and i truly think Tesla saved my life. when firefighter paramedics came to check on me they told me that if the car wasn't as bottom heavy as it was i would have most likely rolled. i came out of the accident with a totaled car and no injuries other than a mild concussion, bumps, bruises and scratches. Thank you Tesla for making the safest rated car in the world.
Thanks for that info.
That's funny...a car without a glass roof rolled down a cliff and the people didn't even need emergency services to get out. And it was a Hyundai Elantra.
Better results regardless of ending position...one third the cost.
@@billcichoke2534 the real tragedy was driving a Hyundai
What car did you replace it with. Glad to hear you are ok
@CozmicTaco Agree as it's a quality vehicle. But then again, neither is a Tesla. Same lower build quality, but the Hyundai is 1/3 as much money. And is less reliant on software.
Mileage is not the concern. Calendar time is the big issue. I've had various battery chemistries in various plug-in hybrid models. The company I worked for had a fleet of hybrids. Pretty consistently, at around year 10, regardless of mileage or battery chemistry, batteries start failing.
Exactly why tesla offered unlimited mileage for 8 years with the first model s.
I have a 2018 model 3 long range with a bit over 160k miles fully charged my car also gets 280 miles hope it keeps working this well for years to come
do u really get 280 miles?
@@jianbinchen2881no
In good weather only
@@dunes4242 well definitely true thankfully I live in California so it’s always pretty good
@@jianbinchen2881 no official testing but I’ve driven from the South Bay to los Angeles California multiple times and the numbers seem decent
In regards to your concerns about the battery health of 7% I am wondering whether the display is correct but sort of inversed. You have a range score of 93 (%?) yet a battery health of 7% (add both figures and get 100). Could it actually be that the battery has only degraded 7%, ie 93% healthy? I hope you find the answer.
Battery capacity is not the only measure of battery health and some of the warnings and failure reports are hidden from the owners by tesla. In one reported incident, the owner used the diagnostic program to check on the battery and it warned him an error in one of the battery modules. Tesla fixed the problem by having the diagnostic program stop reporting the problem.
7% health is how much you’ve lost.. not the overall battery 🪫 health
No it isn't.
Yes it is. It is the battery degradation
@@adam060577 yup
@@adam060577 No - it 100% is NOT - that's a fact, I'm not guessing. Does that mean my 4 month old car - which reads 100% on that test is 100% unhealthy ? You're a clown. Check the 100's of other videos showing results in the 80% plus range for same car - and keep dreaming about owning a Tesla!
The fact that the guy didn't catch that makes him seem slow af
This video is really on point because I am currently at 115,000 miles with my 2019 Tesla model 3. Thanks again for all of your help and The Truth!
The battery replacement is about $20,000. Car isn’t worth half that at this point. That’s why buying them used is buyer beware because, even on a test drive, you have no real idea of the condition of the battery.
I can't get my EGO electric leaf blower battery to last past 2 years. God help someone with an electric car.
So, for a buyer to consider buying a high mileage Electric car, it must be cheap, because I know that I will have to plan to service the battery in the near future!
@@parterojerry exactly. A test drive around the block will not tell you the condition of that battery.
I've replaced batteries on S-E-X-Y while still under the 4 year warranty.
Can’t learn much about a used ICE motor on a test drive either.
Fantastic video! I would imagine that 7% is the amount of degradation, meaning you've lost 7% of battery life, which would align with what you are seeing on the Recurrent page or a close approximation at least (310 - 7%= 288.3). On a side note, it's mind-blowing how well it's holding up. I don't drive nearly as much, so I can only imagine that in cases like mine, the battery could possibly last 10 years easily. In my current car, I only have 13K miles after 2 years of ownership, and I don't see it getting over 30K before I sell it. It makes me wonder if manufacturers should all start valuing EVs, based on battery health and not just mileage, similar to what Recurrent is doing. It only makes sense to do so in a car that has very few wear items on it. The old system made sense because engines had only a certain life before they started giving issues, but now, it doesn't make sense to keep the current system for EVs.
wow 13k in 2 yrs!! I've got 27k and I've had my M3P 10 months!!
@@Slider_84 Yeah, I mostly only drive to and from work, pickup the kids from school, occasional Costco runs, and once in a while a short vacation trip. Daily though I only drive about 30 or so miles.
It also seemed to me that the 93 range score may mean that you have lost only 7% of charging capacity. I suggest you check with Tesla and use the info to publish a follow up video.
nope.
I said the same without reading your note - great minds think alike 🙂
Would be really nice if down the road you could get an upgraded pack (range and/or chemistry) if replacement is needed.
That would be awesome to turn a standard range into a long range.
If you have to replace your battery, how much are they giving for the current battery in the car? No one talks about that
I've had two batteries fail in my 21 Model 3 Performance. One day it says, unable to charge contact service. Both have been under warranty, so I looked up how much a used battery is just in case the day comes when I need a replacement on my dime. Searching on car-part, there are multiple batteries for sale for $3000.00. I would consider this similar to needing a new motor in an ICE car.
You can also balance the battery and re-run the battery health test.
This is why the Service mode is for professionals and not for everyone.
As others already said, the 7% is the number of the battery degradation in the case of your LR. Being that the range number seen at 100% isn’t a number based on past driving history but on a BMS algorithm computation, the degradation of the battery can’t be determined easily by owners. Especially in cases when people use their car only for driving 30-40 miles a day. In those cases the range number is fluctuating because the BMS can’t read the max and the min voltage of the battery pack. So drive once in a while your battery from 100% to 3-5% SOC in a single run (no stop) to help the BMS to relearn the real Min and max cells voltage on your pack.
Or people could just be taught or the instructions could be clear. It says battery health 7/%. Not battery drag ruin 7%. So it's unclear and y'all tryna get on dude like it's funny.
I have seen numbers like 95% or 99% for newer cars. So are you saying their battery is 95% degraded in that case ;)
The label should have said Battery Degradation rather that Battery Health.
"They" on purpose use confuscating language in order to maintain the monopoly of repair and knowledge over the car. They could easily described the item in normal understandable language like "Total battery degradation on this battery since you received it new". That would do it and any child would understand it instead of this lawyer yibberish not even the judge understands lest the jury which normally has no clue whats going on and thus relies completely on emotions. Put that description in clear language and then no "professional" is needed to read a simple book.
@@Wollmütze-l5w Such truth on juries relying on emotion.
Did you do a follow-up on this to get a Tesla interpretation of what "7%" is supposed to mean? What about the other data provided by doing the test, what does it mean? Would you consider running the test on her/your Model Y for comparison?
Andy, please do a follow up on this as we all are looking forward to the outcome, Thanks much
For real!!!!
Yea
@@genisphyla Consumer Reports and Edmunds tell a vastly different story vs. this video and these comments. Further, the recent Chicago area cold temps showed the world what really happens with EVs in cold weather. The "range" numbers drop unbelievably. Nope...I think I'll take Consumer Reports & Edmund's word and stick to my Toyota ICE with a battery that I can buy at O'Reilly's and install myself without spending 20 or 30 grand. Or tires that wear prematurely and cost 2 grand to replace.
@@mattrowan2680 in 2021 they added a heat pump to counter act this issue
Toyota, Škoda diesels one 13 years old the other 15 years old with over 300,000 miles each on the clock, and both cars still running fine, using no oil between changes, and the fuel consumption being pretty much the same as when they were new. Should your Tesla manage to achieve a similar age and mileage, I wonder what state the battery would be in. The other thing that I would find interesting would be, how a Tesla with say 200,000 miles or so on the clock sell on? Used car dealers here in the UK seem reluctant to take in part exchange high mileage EVs........
Or even stock EV’s
And how much have you spent on fuel ? This guy has free supercharging which basically means free fuel for life !
We've been trying to reach you concerning your vehicle's extended warranty !😂😂😂
You: "I have a Tesla".
Salesperson: "Oh, in that case Hell nah!". Click.
I don’t think you have much to worry about, we live near Vancouver Canada which is a magnet for thousands of TESLA’s (there are five on our street alone) of various models primarily 3’s and Y’s even saw a PLAID the other day. Considering the S has been around for over ten years I have never heard of a battery or electric motor failure in a S or any other TESLA for that matter.
maybe 7% is 93% good, meaning health you have lost 7% of life,
I think you’re spot on!!
That’s what I’m assuming also!!
but it clearly says battery health is 7%, NOT 7% lost. Nowhere there is an indication that it is the loss and not the actual health.
Renault has addressed this issue by offering to lease the battery instead of owning it.
It is like a permanent warranty, or an insurance, at a monthly cost.
Right now it’s about $74 per month. Less than one gas fill up (~$8+ per gallon in Europe).
hm
this insurance has the potential to go very wrong
imagine your tesla battery dies on its last year of warranty
you will get a new one for free
meaning you would have payed 7200$ of insurance with the renault for nothing
@@NextGHaHaHaHave you ever had an iPhone that lasted 8 years?
@@wshyangify has an iphone more than one battery cell
or active thermal management?
I have done approx 20k miles on a 2022 Model Y LR in 8 months. I plan on keeping it until I can no longer drive. (I am on my lay 50s now). Will replay the battery as needed. So I would say keep it….
I hope you are right sir! By the time you reach 85yrs there will be full self driving!
00:55 🔋 Tesla's 2022 impact report suggests that even after 200,000 miles, their batteries only lose an average of 12% of their capacity.
02:04 🛡 Tesla's warranty ensures at least 70% retention of battery capacity over eight years or 120,000 miles.
02:45 📊 Recurrent offers free battery performance reports for EVs, analyzing daily data and providing insights on range and charging.
03:41 🚗 Real-world tests and apps like Recurrent help track battery health beyond estimated range.
04:09 🔍 Accessing Tesla's service menu allows an official battery health test that may take up to 24 hours.
05:19 📉 A Tesla Model 3 showed 7% battery health despite still maintaining a good estimated range of around 280 miles.
06:00 🤔 Questions arise about the significance of 7% battery health and its implications for future battery life or replacement.
07:36 💸 Tesla's replacement cost for a Model 3 battery is around $16,550, comprising labor and parts.
08:32 🚗 Despite a 10% degradation after 120,000 miles, healthy charging habits contributed to a Model 3's excellent range score of 93%.
It could be 7% loss, and I hope it is. But could also be increased internal resistance, which doesn’t directly affect capacity though they happen simultaneously. Internal resistance affects amps hence watts. Is acceleration reduced?
I dunno, If a company could put a 93% on there instead of 7% they would have
All these maths don't mean anything until you actually go through the ownership cycle. Most people won't experience any of it as they change cars on average 3-5 years. It really applied to those that keeps their vehicles 10 years or more, which is me. I am not against EVs in general but not for it either. I think there's better alternative, and still waiting for more options. But it's definitely makes for a good dinner table discussion.
Exactly. I have never kept a car for longer than 4 years so it all depends on your needs and if you are planning to keep it long term.
Electric cars are harder to sell pre owned.
@@garrettstickel1189 because EVs are disposable cars
This reminds me of the time I went to a health portal and misread test results to mean I had cancer. Feels great when you find out from a professional that you are wrong.
The cost to replace a Tesla battery can range from $5,000 to $22,000, depending on the model and whether the replacement is covered by warranty:
Model 3: A replacement battery for a Tesla Model 3 costs around $13,000 to $17,000.
Model S: A replacement battery for a Tesla Model S costs around $13,000 to $20,000.
Model X: A replacement battery for a Tesla Model X premium SUV costs at least $14,000.
Cybertruck: A replacement range-extender battery for a Tesla Cybertruck costs an estimated $16,000.
If youre concerned about battery degradation, just buy the LR model. Even with the off chance that down the line it has 30%-40% degradation, it should still have plenty of range for the everyday drive.
Actually, if daily driving is the concern, it's as good or better to buy the standard range, which is recommended to be charged to 100%, which gives as much range as a long range charged to 80%, and twice the expected cycle life, due to its lithium iron phosphate battery.
@@bearcubdaycare That's the first time I've heard this. Why such a drastically different battery between the two?
@@bearcubdaycare That has not been proven. Most of the highest mileage Model 3 recorded are actually LR not LFP batteries per reports shown in the Electric Viking channel.
Is there any newer video with battery tests done for this car after the updates?
I'm about to surpass 100k miles on my 2018 and my range loss from 310 miles is down to around 294 to 297. I have ran my car to less than 10% several times and range charge on road trips and about once every 6 to 8 weeks. Recently discovered that charging to various percentages maintains the most accurate on screen readings. So some times 70% 80% but the majority of my charging ends up at 90%. In 2021 it was only charging to 283-285 for the whole summer and then increased by the end of the year and there has been no drop in my range since then. It's all relative 😁
I’m half that and I only get 275 miles
@@gtbigdog3507 Do you live in the artic?
@@davidbeppler3032 Los Angeles
@@gtbigdog3507you live in traffic. 275 makes sense, no?
My 2020 Model S has lost 1% range after 80,000 miles driven. There are three issues that adversely impact battery life:
1. Times supercharged
2. Times charged to 100% or Times driven to 10% (or less)
3. Times you do 0-60 launches in performance vehicles.
If you take care of your batteries they will last hundreds of thousands of miles.
No, they won't... nobody had to replace a battery due to degradation.
It's always something else that fails (electronic, a single cell failing, ...).
And that can happen anytime.
Just see how many used Tesla S are on sale with a replaced battery pack way before reaching 200k moles.
@@tiloalo Excessive heat coming in or going out is the main culprit of battery failure in a Tesla.
@Axethales from what I saw it's also very often the BMS that fails or water ingress that causes issues.
And it also doesn't seems related to supercharging or abuse
I think the sweet spot for charging is 90 percent everyone says 80 but when I bought my 23 model y long range it was draining the battery fast after I started charging at 90 percent it fixed all the problems and the car responds 100 percent better
So 90% is the new 100%.I have this on my phone.
You can set it to charge up to 80%, but it displays 100%.
I guess EV's are not that smart yet.
@@scorchedearth1451 You need your phone to lie to you about it’s actually battery capacity? You can set your Tesla to charge at whatever % you want, but it won’t lie to you & tell you a 80% charged battery is 100% charged.
A car lying to you about it’s fuel percentage puts you at risk of being stranded.
I've already lost almost 20% on a 2020 DMP. Now full charge went from 315 down to 259 as max charge. (this is after several BMS recalibrations) A net loss of 18% over three (3) years. NOT good. Battery life of a Tesla battery is still the great unknown. Andy shows a vehicle no longer being produced by GM, so thats a bad example. 06:35
The big battery on my 2019 model X died a few months ago, thankfully it was under warranty. My initial warranty is up in September and I’m trying to decide if I should buy the extended warranty? Does anyone have thoughts on it?
Unfortunately, the extended warranty is separate from the battery and does not extend the battery warranty beyond the original mileage. As a result, I don’t think purchasing the extended warranty would give you the additional coverage you were implying you wanted. Personally, I was confused why Tesla even created an extended warranty that did not include the battery.
Just enjoy your new battery and assume you will get at least as much use out of it. 2 batteries for the price of one.
@@bwolf8099 I prefer the big screen on my X so I’m leaning towards keeping it. I’m contemplating the warranty to cover the other features like falcon wing doors. I don’t like that there is the $200 deductible.
I have a 2020 M3 LR that’s set to hit 120k this week. I am not like most and charge my battery to 100% every day/ chance I get. I’m interested in seeing how my battery has held up verses someone who charges only to 80%.
Me too often charging to 100%! My friend had 3 Ev's and did the same on 2 of them - and difference with the 3rd one was miserable (after 5 years)..So it looks more like a myth, but we'll see.
@@MFrrFrr my thought on not charging to 100% is, if it isn’t meant to do it they wouldn’t allow it to. May be a bad way to look at it but I’m sure Tesla has that all figured out.
run the test and share the result. I think we're all curious. I bet you will see a 10% degradation vs. his 7%
Weighing the cost of battery replacement against the cost of a new car might lead one to just go with a new battery and save 30K on a new car purchase. However, I personally would be concerned about the drive assembly and the rest of the car's systems after more than a decade on the road. All these concerns have lead me to be skeptical about buying a used EV but you have at least shown that the battery question is less of a concern than I imagined, at least for a used Tesla.
I bought a used 2012 model s and after 1000 miles had to replace the $7500 powertrain. Not fun.
@BrenttheGreat wow that really blows.
@@lenacheney Yeah! Darn it.
It is not, plenty of batteries just stop working altogether and you need to replace them.
Degradation is clearly not the problem.
@tiloalo your right all of the people complaining about their ev batteries aren't about degradation but of sudden failure not under warranty. People like to overlook this and argue they can go for 300,000 miles. Also another issue with Ev batteries are they can spontaneously catch fire and take hours to put out as they keep catching on fire over and over and over
Best view is its either a glitch or needing some other way to interpret result. Very reassuring video either way Andy for so many concerned about the battery life.
Is it possible that the 7% actually indicates how much the battery has degraded? It certainly correlates with the 93 range score.
NO, because he's degraded more than 7% by his own statistics. You'll lose 3-5 % in the first year alone and after that its all a guessing game.
@@alexnutcasio936 Did you even watch the video? The Recurrent app gave him a range score of 93, and his admittedly not too accurate "charge up and drive down" calculations came in at "around 90%". Certainly, all these would be in acceptable margins of error if, indeed. the "7" in question meant the amount of degradation that had taken place.
@@alexnutcasio936 thats an average and not an absolute.
Queensland Australia. I have 2019 Model 3 standard range, now 110 000 KM started with 340 km range, now 320 km range. Using power from my solar panels and home battery. 5 years only cost 4 new tyres (plus ins. rego etc) Twice had to steal some air from a petrol station.
Out of Spec Reviews got the same puzzling result, and he charges only to 50-70% at home. Like others have suggested, it’s more likely the 7% is your battery degradation. Your current range estimates are consistent with 7% degradation.
L
I would tend to believe what others have said that 7% (100-93) is the degradation. That would match the figure that Recurrent comes up with.
That doesn't make sense at all. iPhones also have battery healthy which counts down from 100%. 7% does really mean it is reaching end of it's life but how do you define end of life? That's defined by Tesla. The battery may well perform 70% capacity after 200K miles.
@@user-fx5sw4jy7hYz9Hzi In my mind, it makes sense. It seems to me that their intention is giving a percentage to the range you can expect at a full charge. If the range when brand new is 310 miles at 100%, and then you subtract this 7% figure, you end up at 288.3 miles of range when charged to 100%. So in essence, you've lost 7% of range when at 100% full charge. Which aligns with both what the screen on the Tesla says and what the Recurrent website shows.
@@ProXcaliberI did the rudimentary math after charging my 2019 M3P to 100%. It showed 285 miles. Based on a starting point of 310 miles that’s 8% degradation. Not as entailed as the service mode option performed here but seems to correlate.
@@mrh3085 Then you would be correct! The only other way to get a more concrete answer is to take it to Tesla directly and have them do a full service of the battery.
The issue is not degradation, it is cell failures or electronics failure inside the battery pack. But packs can be repaired!
And where can he go to repair the battery pack? Is Tesla doing it? Yes there’s a difference but that doesn’t help the current situation
@@LuckyAeon It depends on where you are. Gruber Motors in the US. In europe a number of 3rd party service partners by EVhub in Norway. Much cheaper than Tesla.
At what cost are they repaired or replaced??
@@alexnutcasio936 It depends on where and what it is. I have no idea where you from....
And for lower volume cars with proprietary packs that are not Tesla? Gonna be some unhappy owners at some point when warranties start ending on a lot of the BEVs sold in the last couple years in the US.
its been a year since you made this video, im just wondering if you still have this model 3?
Yes and it’s still showing 290-300 miles of range on a full charge
@@aslye awesome glad to hear the good news
@@aslyewow, good for you! And thanks for the update! What’s the mileage at now?
Great info, early cars like my Nissan leaf 2012 had no thermal management aka cooling so they degraded a lot quicker only have 30mi range on my leaf it's over 10 years old I'm considering dismantling the pack identifying bad modules and changing them out
Thats the problem with the Leaf. Much as I am not a Tesla fanboi, the battery management is very good when it comes to thermal management. As for rebuilding the battery pack, I would suggest it is a fraught exercise because you will be chasing your tail with other cells dying weeks or days after you rebuilt it. Not to mention the hazards of dealing with a high voltage battery pack and trying to match the new cells with old cells so they are compatible with the charging system. A good way to burn your car if the new cells don't like being charged as much or they keep the charging going longer on the old cells. A lot of DIY home battery and DIY scooter builds show a bad history.
Definitely keep going. I have a 2022 model y long range. I will run it until the battery dies and replace the battery, then rinse and repeat
I'm guessing if you save 2k a year for battery replacement after 10 years the funds will be there for a new Battery!
I would recalibrate my BMS first. You can do this by depleting your battery to a percentage lower than 10%, leave it there for at least an hour, and then charge it up to 100% until the charger stops adding energy to the battery. Then go for a drive to bring it back down to your normal 80-90%. You may need to do this a couple of times. I'm getting pretty close to that 120k milestone too. I do have a Cybertruck reserved, so I need to make a decision to either keep both vehicles or sell the Model 3 that's out of warranty by then. Tough call...I really love my Model 3!
The battery test does this
@@jamessepulveda5202 It does not deplete and recharge multiple times.
I have a cy ertruck reservation too , but would rather trade in my wife's sgitty gad Chevy instead of the telsa model 3 with FSD
This has never added any range for me.
One thing people never talks about it’s when 8:40 teslas get total there goes the battery as well or they get recicle or what or you can buy a used one for half price or less Cause I want to put a tesla package on a 50s f 100 truck I know it’s been done already
Devaluation is what you should worry about. The value drops faster than a lead balloon
Out of spec did the same test and got a similar result the first time. He found out there’s more to the test to make it accurate.
Yep. Professionals have the tools and know how. That is why you pay them. :)
@@davidbeppler3032there are no special tools needed to run the battery health test. When out of spec got a similar result as Andy, Kyle contacted Tesla service who confirmed there's a bug in the system that was causing incorrect battery health test results.
my 2015 model S with 126k miles just die :/ that's how I got to this video. It is funny that it went out at 126K miles and the warranty covers until 125K 🙃
I have almost 90k miles on my 2020 MYLR, and the battery degradation is about 8%. I plan to keep it for as long as possible.
That's bad
@@bigballer3249 It's not bad at all. Typically Teslas lose about 10% of battery life over the first year then almost nothing more after that.
@@DracoGuitars nobody I know got as high as 10% loss in the first year. It's higher at first in general but nearly 10%
@@bigballer3249 a 4 year old car with 100k miles on it. Do you expect the car & it’s battery to last forever 😑
I have a performance at 140,000kms. I spent 3 months last year travelling in the car using superchargers. When I did the test, I got 86%. I am keeping it until it's dead.
But I think a important thing to keep in mind is the battery pack price is going down. With faster and better manufacturing and improvements in scale. That price is dropping like the price to buy the car new.
Tesla has honestly reach their economy of scale and by the time you're replacing it I doubt they will use the same battery technology. You'll probably be using refurbished batteries that people combine good cells with.
The new factory produces NEW batteries which are not compatible with old cars, so, don't expect a big drop
Also.. most resources for building the battery are sourced in China...
Service centres are popping up everywhere in the uk and they replace defective cells and rebalance the battery for a fraction of a new battery.
I think he question is not only if something happens to the battery after warranty. The question is also what the „no warranty“ risk is doing to the used market price of the vehicle. At one point you say „should I buy the vehicle?“ - even if you sold the vehicle the state of the battery would be considered in the price you get.
At 10 years I had 105,000 miles on my model S. Battery failed, 16,000 dollars later, and I have less range than the first battery, I can’t recommend buying the replacement battery , it’s junk
I can buy a 10 years old diesel car for 3000 yankee bucks and drive it for 10 years
@@InternetExplorer-s9g You can't find a diesel for $3k. You're lying.
@@tjmattingly33 plenty of good diesel cars for 3000-4000 euros in europe
Andy, you car is doing better than mine. I have not done the health test. Currently my car at 100% gets 279 miles range, at 80% it gets 214 miles. My odometer is 53,000+ miles :(
Great video Andy. Thank you. I hopefully keep my Tesla for about 10 years too. I had it for 4 years now n 34k miles, with FSD . Still loving it.
You are going to learn something painful. By 10 years, your car will be worth exactly $0.00. Why? Because by the time you sell your car, the world will be very aware that 10 years is the real expected life of the battery. Battery replacements and repairs will not get cheaper. You will be asked how old is your battery, and at 10 years old, it's considered a scrap car. Mark my words, you will lose whatever savings you think you were going to get owning a Tesla. It will be a complete money pit for you by the time you reach 10 years.
at 10 years most batteries are basically shitting themselves, even at lower mileage
@@bn880 Even Franz said 10 years on Leno's Garage. He's literally Mr Tesla. Why wouldn't any fanboys listen to Mr Tesla when he tells them they and the environment are screwed with expensive and environmentally bad battery replacements? You can google so many battery experts telling you the same thing. Expect 10 years. You might get 15, but do you feel that lucky? If so, bet all your money on #16 in Roulette, because your odds are about the same.
@@JetFire9you have got to go touch grass.
Congratulations on reaching such an impressive milestone with your 2018 Tesla Model 3! With a range score of 93 and only a 10% degradation after 120,000 miles, it's understandable why you're inclined to continue driving your Model 3 confidently. For me I'd still drive it but will continue to monitor battery health closely while adhering to best charging practices. Hope that in the future they have a charging limiter for these.
I own a 2021 Model 3 SR+, with 31,000 miles on it thus far.
Here’s my take on this non-issue:
IF my car needs a new battery pack (and that’s a gigantic IF) and it’s out of warranty, I’ll get a new pack.
Far cheaper than getting a new car (average new car price is $45,000 now).
The Tesla is reliable, and it gets OTA updates which keeps it current and fresh. A new battery pack would let me keep driving my fun, cheap, and easy to live with Tesla? That’s an easy choice for me!
So, if I am reading you correctly, you're willing to spend (lets say $14,000) for a new SR battery in 6 years when your car has a value of $15,000? Sure , makes sense to me , LOL.
@@alexnutcasio936 Battery costs keep falling and technology keeps improving, In 6 years time they probably won’t cost 14K,and there will likely be even more service shops out there who will fix rather than replace the battery. 6 years is a long time so highly doubtful things will be the same/cost the same as today. That’s the metric I’ve used when ordering our Model 3. 8 year 192000 km warranty, we drive 15000 km per year so I’m happy with that. We plan on keeping ours for 10 years.
@@gbw28 "We plan on keeping ours for 10 years.
" Good luck with that. Ask any old Model S owner about their OLD battery and your mind will change.
@@alexnutcasio936 like I said, batteries will be alot cheaper by then so who cares? 10 years is a very long way away. Plenty of ICE cars needing expensive engine and or transmission repairs at that age and even younger. How many of them have 8 year 192000 km warranties? The stories of ICE car owners having very expensive repair bills just out of warranty are plentiful. There are model 3 owners whose vehicles have done 100k miles and even some 200k miles, no battery replacement necessary.
@@gbw28 haven’t seen a single Model 3 anywhere with 200k miles. It’s not unusual for a modern ICE engine to go 200k miles without any major issues and if it’s a diesel, 400-500k miles is not unheard of . P,Ys, a new JCE engine is more like $3-5$k, not $25k for a battery. The cost advantage is still with the ice long term.
Mine in S suddenly went to 11% @ 260.000mls. But it was not reality. It took $4000 to replace a few faulty cells and regenerate it. It is back to 96%, now @ 285.000mls. I think that the major problem is that a vast majority do not see outside of Tesla service network. There's a network of independent Tesla servicers now, and they know about them. There is a lot of inside knowledge, and a lot can be rebuilt, it's electronics.
Supercharging is the weakness of these batteries, increased cell death and reduced cycle life. They should add something like a warranty limitation for Supercharging then add more warranty for age and mileage. LFP batteries appears to be more robust and would like to finally see it in the Model Y
Uhm model Y already here with LFP. Many driving around here in Netherlands.
My ownership of a 2014 p85d with free supercharging has not shown this to be the case. I am surprised by the resilience.
not true. Actual statistical analysis of real cars shows no statistical difference between cars mostly supercharged vs. cars that seldom supercharged. Why? Probably because the BMS ensures that heat is kept within reasonable levels in either case. The rate of charge when heat is kept within reasonable range is also theoretically not relevant in actual research at Stanford so we have two clear pieces of evidence that Supercharging is not degrading packs
@@climatenomad It's because Tesla replaces these packs under warranty, citing it as manufacturing defect. Many packs that are used for ride hailing consistently failed or lose modules or drop to half the range under frequent Supercharging. Whereas the expected effect is gradual loss of maximum range. I've heard many high mileage Teslas that did not have any issue with their battery packs that seldom SUpercharge
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Long Range - Single Motor - 5 years - 101,000 miles
Have been charging for 5 years at the Super Chargers (Free). 2018 - 310 miles / 2023 - 295 miles - Still at 95%. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Thanks for the Video
As stated below, your 7% doesn't sound bad at all. My 2018 Model 3 RWD LR is about at the same state. Also bear in mind that based on my Michigan experience battery SOC is extremally temperature dependent. I drive a 100 mile route almost weekly in temperature ranges from -7 to 100 F at a nearly constant speed of 60 MPH. At 75F the range estimate is nearly perfect, at times during a morning drive gong from a crisp to warm morning, I have even experienced range increase! As you state, it is mostly about battery chemistry. and most 3s and Ys have the 21700 battery. That being said, your original 310 miles of range is the benchmark of a brand new battery pack and you can expect a 3-4% drop as the battery "settles in" over the first year or two. Then expect a 1-2% drop over the next several years. Depending on your charging habits, that drop off should somewhat flatten if you only use supercharging sparingly and generally keep your charging cycle to 20 to 80% (roughly 60 to 250 miles range) at level 2 charging. Then I would expect the battery to be serviceable for another 10 to 20 years. Some "tricks" to long battery life; charge as soon as you can if below 40% and try not to leave the car sitting with a low battery, that is the worst. Only charge to 100% occasionally when you know you will want the the extra miles right away. Long term sitting (I define as over 2 weeks), best if you can leave it plugged in at level 1 or 2 and set the charge to 50 to 60% If you need to let it sit without being plugged in long term, I would try to leave it around 70% and leave things like security monitoring off and resist the temptation to keep checking the phone app. This allows it to go into "deep sleep" and will minimize "phantom drain". Anyone with and comments, suggestions or experience please do so.
What you said is most impressive, but its also total speculation. Objectively, we don't know how much and to what level to charge to as Tesla has often changed their guidance over the years (just ask Like Tesla Kim). Even Toyota can not agree on that level to charge their Prime vehicles, but they do know what they charge their hybrids to and its typically between 20-80%. Given that, we're speculating that 20-80 is the perfect range for a Tesla battery buy no one knows ( since at least 2018 models) how long a Model 3 or Y battery (2020) will go before needing replacement. In fact, we're just getting the Model S and X indicators now and the S clearly shows that after a few years (define a few) that the S battery from the S 75 or the S60 now need replacement, so they are essentially paperweights at this point since replacement exceeds fair market value of vehicle. Basically, its all anecdotal and supposition at this point. Tesla insists that supercharging is not bad for a battery, but many claim or believe otherwise. So, we don't know what we don't know.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. The only thing I do (bc of commute daily) is charge to 90%. Off days, 20% to 70% or 80%. 2170 cells are like magic rocks. The chemistry with these batteries are awesome. Let’s hope the 4680’s do well in project highland. 🤷🏽
@@gust9464 we don’t know if Project Highland is getting 4680s. 2170s seem to be just as good.
@@alexnutcasio936 depends so much on the type of battery. Our ModY uses LFP (HV)and Li-ion for the low voltage. So charging regularly to 100% is the preferred method. Since the individual battery’s voltage range is much narrower than Li-ion so less mechanical and chemical change/wear. LFP batteries should hold their SOH and range much longer than Li-ion.
@@alexnutcasio936 How can you compare the batteries from Model S from 2014 laptops to the EV batteries in 2020 Model 3/Y? They are different chemistry, form factor, quality control, battery management, cooling, and charging. I expect my TM3LR to last more than 20 years and a million miles. Just based on battery degradation statistics. We have the math.
I was interested in a used, early Tesla Model S for $15,000. However, two things stopped me from becoming an EV owner. One was the $400 per month insurance, more than what I pay for both insurance and my current ICE car payment. The other was the fear of what it would cost if I needed to replace anything, including the battery.
What do you expect buying a used luxury car?
@@mrnarason You are right, I shouldn't expect an older luxury car to be cheap anymore. It's not like back in the day that different cars were just rebranded as different models with a few more add-ons. Remember when you could swap a Chevy engine into any GMC, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, or Corvette?
I was really hoping to get an EV as my next vehicle. In my state I could get a Chevy Bolt for as little as $14,000 if I owed enough taxes at the end of the year. Sadly I can't make it happen and the Bolt is therefore pushed out of my budget.
However, now I'm kind of glad I can't get one seeing how on Transport Evolved it cost $3,000 just to fix the A/C on a Bolt. So I guess no EV for me for a long while.
sounds like you're too poor to afford an EV, there are no evs $15k and under in the US dude@@tiojuan174
ICE engine and tranny replacements are also quite expensive and may sometimes effectively exceed the residual value of the car. So there’s that…
True, and a difference is the number of systems that can go wrong with an old ICE vehicle. Even with a engine and/or a tranny replacement, there's still the exhaust system and the cooling system (replace radiator), belts and hoses. With an EV there's just the battery and the motor; and supposedly the motors are million mile motors. Tires and steering is common to both ICE and EV. So with an EV, for approx 15k battery replacement you can get pretty much a new car. (corrosion is probably the biggest limiting factor).
If you buy a reliable brand, ICE cars can last up to 500K miles with proper care. No EV can match that.
I bought a 2014 used Tesla model S, 6 years ago. I currently have 79k miles and was just told, by Tesla that i need a new battery 16k estimate. I would not recommend an EV.
For the record, Li-Ion battery chemistry is the same wherever that type of battery is used. So yes, Tesla batteries are exactly the same as the one used for a trolling motor, cell phone, laptop... The only difference is a cooling system which as you pointed out is better managed in cars than in cell phones :) Your battery health check results are therefore mostly accurate. Maybe not exact, but close enough for you to start worrying.
Not true. While the basic chemistry is the same, there are a lot of variable in manufacturing the battery from purity of elements, assembly environment, percent (recipe) of elements and the small percent of other elements added to the particular battery.
@@ohger1 All Li-Ion batteries are identical in the way they operate because they share the same internals. Purity of materials may make a slight difference in longevity but not a huge one. Most batteries are made by only a handful of manufacturers so variances are small. I'm talking about known brands like Samsung, LG, Panasonic and similar, not something obscure.
@@Steelologist The only thing identical about all lithium ion batteries is the voltage per cell. No two battery companies use the exact same chemistry (we'll ignore the exact manufacturing process here), and indeed, various chemistry patents defend that argument. A company like Samsung (for instance) makes all kinds of cells, from garbage pouch batteries for phones or cylindrical cells for laptops that they design to last a handful of years to high quality cells with different chemistry and different production techniques. Even taking battery electrical and thermal management off the table, cells used in EVs are not analogous to phone and laptop cells.
@@ohger1 LOL, you obviously know nothing about this subject, but feel free to keep embarrassing yourself.
@@ohger1 Correct. Lithium ion cells are often dramatically different between manufacturers and even a manufacturer's own product lines. Just recently we've run across counterfeit lithium ion batteries that one of our buyers acquired on sample. They don't deliver rated AH and they don't last anywhere near as many cycles as quality producers - but they're still lithium ion.
@andy can you do a battery update? What is your health? I have a 2018 tm3 LR and at 83%. I have 65k miles and seems ok down 15% and has been rapidly the past 6 months.
By any chance did you ask Tesla Service Department what the 7% degradation means?? Really enjoy your videos.
Was the term Degradation used? I heard and red "Battery Health".
hey what was the battery health of the S or the Y if you still have them...thx
you said how much you saved by not buying gas and oil etc. You never mentioned how much it costs to keep that vehicle charged for that period. electricity is not free.....just like lunch.
Assuming charging half at home and half supercharging about $10,000 average.
On the MG you're supposed to do a rebalance charge sometimes where you charge to 100%, then leave it on charge until it finishes the process. Does the Tesla not have something like that????
Drive it…the replacement cost us the same no matter WHEN it happens in the lifecycle. 👍
well it could get cheaper as commodity prices drop eventually, kind of an uncontrolled cost.
Another thing to keep in mind is that even if a battery degrades or has a bad module, it is still worth a lot of money. So just like replacing an engine in a gas car, with the bad engine being sold and rebuilt, so can a battery pack. Especially with a rise in EV battery recycling, a consumer would be able to make up a lot of the cost of a new battery by selling the old battery. This help offset the total cost of a new replacement if it happens outside of the warranty period. Tesla also launched its extended warranty which may also help ease some worrying. Realistically, if you aren’t strictly supercharging and follow Tesla’s recommended charging guidance you won’t have to worry.
Exactly current research shows used ev pack's retain $38-$42 per kwh in scrapping value.
This isn't all true. My 2013 was operating fine, but my car went to sleep and I has to take it to Tesla to wake it up and when the vehicle was returned... my battery was limited to 90 miles maximum. Out of warranty and the want to charge me $20k and no... there's no recycling discounts.
@@jamesstarks3676 Correct, it's absolute garbage. It's worth money to the recyclers, just like any scrap, but not to the owners, it's just another big repair bill.
Kind of BS, replacing the battery even with a used one will cost you over 10 or 15k$. And no, nobody will buy your broken pack for 10k.
@@tiloalo the packs are warrantied 10 years/ 100k miles. Yes people will buy it because it’s worth a lot to recycle or to just replace the modules and resell it. These batteries don’t go bad very often. You always see worst case scenarios all over the internet and most of them are BS.
@00:54 should the cost of running a gas car include replacing the engine? Keep this car and drive it into the ground like it was a first gen Nissan Leaf.
Hi Andy, maybe 7% health actually means 7% degradation? Weird way to describe it, but it more or less matches your range estimate.
Yes I was thinking exactly this!
In Canada 2 reports of battery replacement (not tesla) $58k and $60k can.
One was a Kia from memory.
My new ICE diesel would cost $20k au as a comparison.
So your $16k usd equates to $24.5k au, all other things being equal.
It would interesting to access each battery cell voltage.
May be you need to do a full charge-discharge to have the BMS balancing the battery.
You should try an OBd2 scan tool such as Scan My Tesla.
It provides Battery degradation information and Cells voltage.
When I used to long distance travel to and from work I put 120,000 miles on a vehicle in one year at times.
My P85D battery pack failed 20 days after warranty expired, 10 days after I bought it from a dealer, and the same morning I has a service center appointment with an unrelated issue… Dealer wanted to replace module(s) for 4K but would not honor implied warranty of merchantability in my state to replace full battery. It has been a 4 month long nightmare, to say the least. I would rather have the battery replaced, but I fear the other components will also need attention with 100k and 8 years old. So, I bought a new Model 3, but regret it because supercharging is a lot more expensive than I anticipated and is equal to the new car payment.
120,000 miles on a 40 mpg car is 3000 gallons, at say, $4/gallon that's $12,000 in savings. Plus not doing 40 oil changes (say $30 each) $1200. Let's say at least 2 brake changes (and no mechanic in the world just does brake changes, they always tell you you need a new rotor) add another $500. We're up to $13,700 towards a $20,000 battery if that ever fails.
True but most people don't put away the money they dave on these services for a possible battery replacement. I'm sure some do.
After 26 months of operation, my MYLR has 72K km (roughly 44K miles). There have been 5 long road trips (Toronto to Orlando) and more are planned. I’m interested to do the test on my own car, but I’m a bit fearful of just what I might find…
why would you be fearful? arent you still under warranty?
interested in getting my 2013 tesla model s high voltage battery repaired , any tips or where I can find a battery
Interesting! My brother in law has the same car you have with less than half the mileage to date. On a recent visit, we departed his home with a full charge, drove about 100 miles away on a 45 degree spring day, mostly expressway driving, and returned home later that day after sunset. I was surprised that the car needed a brief (10-15 minute) charge on the way home, based on projected range remaining. The nearest charge point available is 35 miles from their home, so there was no plan B option. B in L was not surprised. I understand that cabin heat can use a lot of range, but this was not a cold winter day. I would be disapointed if I could not complete a 200 mile "real world" trip on a spring day without charging.
Then you want a 2020 or newer LR model 3. Heat pump is a must for energy savings in cold or hot weather.
@@davidbeppler3032 No... actually, I want a car I can drive 1000 miles on two 10 minute fuel stops... like my ten year old Honda Accord. Sure am glad it will run for another ten years and 125K miles. Not interested in a $70,000 car that requires me to accomodate its short comings.
@@billyjoejimbob56 : The crucial short-coming of your old Honda Accord is that it uses gasoline ! which must be pumped out of oil wells ! Those oil wells will be depleted in a couple of decades ! And it will take nature billions of years to replenish them ( out of dead bodies of creatures which are alive at this time !)
That's the cold hard truth of EV's at least at this point. If you plan on taking long trips over 5 hours you might as well buy and ICE vehicle. I've heard all kinds of fantastic claims about the range of EV's like the Model 3, but i know several people with them and they barely get 200 miles on a single charge. The battery technology just hasn't advanced far enough yet. I'll wait. I'm not gonna spend 38k on an electric car when it's a wash when you consider your electricity bills, limited range, etc. Just not worth it.
@@billyjoejimbob56 Exactly this. My car has the exact same range it had when it was built 14 years ago, I don't need to worry about charging it before I set off as I can get fuel just about anywhere. I don't have to plan my journey, need to follow a route on a screen, worry about chargers not working or people queuing to use them, for the same reason. When I do stop to fill up, usually after 400+ miles, I'm on my way again in 5 minutes.
And anybody paying more than £500 or so a year for their leased car is already paying more than I paid to buy the car outright, in cash, zero % interest and will never make up the deficit in fuel savings. I'm speaking from the point of view of a UK resident but this isn't knocking EVs, it's quite simply the reality of buying (leasing) and running one.
My m3p's battery has failed its dropping by the day Tesla have remotely examined it and they will replace it, I'm impressed that Tesla can examine your car, and if it gets stolen I'm sure they could brick the car, haven't had the job done yet but hope it's a short wait I have expressed concern about the car burning but the onscreen message says range reduced but drivable, the car feels fine and range atm is ok, great car.
I only have 78k miles on mine and I’m just amazed at the quality of the drivetrain. My previous Subaru forester XT at 50k miles, the engine was already making ticking noises so I made the decision to trade it in while it was still worth something. 😂
Subarus make ticking noises when new because of direct injection system. It’s normal and not a sign of an issue. Not saying Subarus are the best cars out there. Just letting you know that it was fine.
@@dillonh321 mine did not make a ticking noise until 45k. It got louder and louder - hence traded it in while it was still running. 😂
@@LordLoMR2sounds like a lifter/valve adjustment issue. Probably wouldn't have cost much to fix but congrats on the superior Tesla
The value of a 100k miles 2020 model 3 here in the uk is around 14k. if the battery goes you aint replacing it. Your just going to part the car out and be done with it. These are not cars that should be repaired. They should be recycled or scrapped once they battery life goes bad.
that warranty seems really good
FYI to all - Had a 2019 Model 3 with 106,000 miles and was told by Tesla the battery was no longer able to work. Cost $13k for a refurbished with 4 years 50k warranty. Sold it and not sure if I would do it again. Perhaps mine was a rare case. The warranty on this one was 8 years and 100k miles. Not pleased, but it is what happened to me.
OMG what timing, TY! This is EXACTLY what I've been researching over the past 2 days. This has been my biggest fear and the reason I haven't bought a model Y yet.
Its a valid concern and a REAL fear. WHY? Because no one KNOWS insofar as the 3 and Y are concerned. We do know that batteries can and WILL degrade over time and use. We just don't know the hard numbers. The forums are replete with references to the original S batteries from 2012 and on and its not looking good long term. Many have been replaced or the car sold or traded due to degradation and loss of range.
@@JMC-ul1sw so you recommend? Thinking of getting a model Y long range, but the videos I watch are 50/50 been asking around in the comments, I’m so indecisive
I have seen some cars that said their battery was fine until a day or two before it dies. Where I live you have to reveal a known issue - so if you know the battery is at 7% you have to say that when selling or face a lawsuit.
My brother in law had a transmission go out on his 2014 minivan with 80,000 miles. The replacement cost is 8200 not counting the issues that had preceded it cost wise.
Was your car in an accident on the driver side? Paint color on the driver door looks different then the rear door at 6:21.
Hello Andy, I've been following your TH-cam page since 2018, and all of your post are always on point. Thanks for giving us the best reviews when it comes to products specifically Tesla model 3. I'm reaching out to see whether you received the software update with the Zoom feature for your 2018 model 3 and is it working? Currently, I have a 2018 and 2019 model 3 and I'm told by Tesla service that unless I install the FSD 3.0 computer I can't get the cabin camera to work. Please advise thanks much! RC
How much u sent on electricity?
Glad to hear, presume the 7% is not bad. I dont drive much per year, and worry i would be wasting the car by letting it sit so much. The opposite of this, but still a concern: constant maintenance charging..what could go wrong? And Michael jorden is a dated example my man, though I did get the analogy!
Probably make it last longer , the less you drive the longer between your charging cycles , your battery could last forever if your charger cycles are far and few between
Jay Leno owns a 1905 Baker electric , still runs today and only had batteries replaced once or twice in 100 years
Hey Andy, fantastic video as always! Really enjoyed hearing your insights. I'm also a proud owner of a Tesla Model 3 long range 2018, boasting 60,797 miles under my belt, and I've been the sole owner since day one. Just recently, I decided to run a battery health test for the first time, and to my surprise, it displayed an 84% capacity. Your experience with a 7% discrepancy raises some interesting questions; could it possibly be attributed to a software glitch? I'm curious to know if Tesla provided any insights or resolutions regarding this matter. Keep up the great content!
Biggest cost for electric cars: resale value. No one will want to buy a Tesla with 200k miles. Let alone the depreciation hit you took after purchase
Man, I have been looking for a Model S/3 with 200k miles thinking they would be 12/15k... they are going for 20k yet.
This is an odd comment. Imagine buying a Chevy with 200k miles, you're essentially buying a yard ornament lol
Nobody likes to buy a ICE car with generally over 100k let alone 200k you can forget it. Mileage doesn’t mean anything in the EV world - it’s batter health that is more important
@@MichaelMillerJ Running a cruze with 249K on it. Manual trans. It gets 175 miles a day most time. Turbo too. NOT a yard ornament. I cant even get a car into my yard!
I want to get an old Model S with the hope of retrofitting solid-state batteries in the future, but I don't know if that would even be possible. Battery degradation is not what puts me off buying one; it's more that I am afraid of the battery just dying entirely, which usually happens because one battery causes the whole cell to fail.
In the world of Prius cars, if a traction battery fault happens, some owners opt for bad cell replacement (a few hundred), rebuilt traction battery pack (about $1,500 installed w/3-year warranty) or all new non-oem cells (about $2,000) or Toyota dealer oem replacement (about $4,000). Alternatives not available in Tesla land?