Though these two individuals have vastly different views, they find points of agreement. More street epistemology videos from Australia are coming, be sure you're subscribed!
Thank you for this as it was interesting, calm and both people were respectful, listening to each others views. Nice to watch something without a screeching and baying activist bellowing 'bigot'
you did really well! it is so hard not to be nervous and to come up with answers in the middle of a discussion, especially when the viewpoints are different, you did great indeed!
You were an absolute delight. Although I think the gentleman was needlessly a bit insulting at times, you remained calm, measured, articulate and respectful. I am not throwing him under the bus because overall, it was a beautiful example of a successful conversation that is so rare. I have this suspicion that most people who are trans and most who have doubts about the identity are normal down to earth people and not the hysterical few throwing tantrums on social media. Well done.
Actually, if you listen closely, the content of the words that come out of the trans person is 90% nothing-statements and 10% signaling their civility with Peter.
For anyone wondering. you have seen many transgender people during the week. Most you have no idea they are transgender. You have no idea who they are. They have no idea who you are. We all just living our own life and doing mostly what everyone else does. Sex working? No. Regular jobs, regular families, regular home and living conditions. Stop attacking people who you don't know. When these videos are only meant to put distrust in medical professional who perform surgeries on your teenage children. Anyone who wonder what transgender is - the difference between you and a transgendered person. 1 or 2 different pills for 2-3 years. That is the only difference, concerning physical intake and medicine effects.
@@danaphamau I disagree with you on the argument but you actually showed how a debate should be conducted. you were not looking for reasons to be offended nor did you make yourself look like a victim. It may be the fact that Australians are a lot more relaxed and 'she'll be right mate'
Saying gender dysphoria is "insane" is a bit harsh, and I think an exaggeration. I would say (as a transwoman) that it's pretty neurotic. I'd be more inclined to call it insane if the person truly believed that they are really the opposite sex. When people say things like, "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body," they are likely being metaphorical. When a little boy, for example, says, "I'm a girl," he doesn't understand what a girl is. Regardless of views on gender, a grown adult who believes in Satan has no business questioning someone else's sanity.
How wonderful that you found some intelligent, educated, thinking people to have a reasoned debate on the streets of Sydney! No screaming, no hateful slogans, no interruptions. Pleasure to listen to it
It's worse. It's trying to foist new word definitions on everyone. They want us to accept a new meaning for "woman", even though they either can't or won't define it without resorting to using the word itself ("A woman is anyone who says she is a woman"). But what they really mean is either (1) an adult female who doesn't claim to be a man, or (2) a biological male whose perception of feminine stereotypes, and his mental affinity for same, has caused him to dress and act according to said stereotypes.
@@soniaess28his subject regarded a specific trans person, and that specific trans person seems like someone who would not invade women's spaces. I'm very anti-trans movement, but I can still empathise with trans individuals who aren't walking in lockstep with the movement.
Well no-one seems particularly interested in what old school biological women have to say, anymore. It’s like the second wave of feminism got erased and women’s opinions have once again been invalidated and they are yet again rendered invisible. I guess that’s why no one noticed or bothered to seek an opinion from the blonde woman. 🤷🏻♀️ 👩🏻🦳
What a brilliant episode. In this shouty, bigoted world a Green shoot of calm, considerate debate that allows one to appreciate both sides of a difficult discussion. Such a difference from the usual radicalised presentation of a triggering topic. I personally would side more with the gentleman’s view but the lady’s thoughts/views did leave me with more compassion for her belief. Bravo Peter
@@jacobjohnson6766 You're right, he did say science is settled, showing he have no idea what he's talking about. At one point he even said anal sex is evil and will kill you... A true man of science 🙄
I’ma be honest, he asked the trans man why the conversation went so well and the answer is him! This was the most civil, level headed trans individual I’ve ever seen in a discord. And the other guy actually said enough to get offended by unlike most situations I’ve seen! 💪🏽
I do appreciate that these videos allow both sides to be heard. That trans woman is the most reasonable trans person I've come across (online or in person) in a very long time. Great discussion!
I absolutely despise the notion that what men and women wear or how they act would somehow confuse others. Mongols, Englishmen, Greeks, Romans, Spaniards, Arabs, etc had no problem identifying the women of any foreign culture they encountered. Mannerisms and dress didn't turn their whole world view upside down.
Right, this is a very callous point, but for all of history, when plundering and pillaging I am sure the invaders knew who to rape. Of course I wasn't there but I'm pretty sure there were not a ton of mistakes.
@@thisguy3032 you are assuming that only women were raped but young men and boys would have been targets of that kind of violence too because rape is not about sex it's about power and violence.
“These people are in intellectual pain, and we need to help them” based. Very nice to see an articulate person explain why his disagreement is rooted largely in compassion. Sad to think people will view it as hatred; it is the opposite.
And this is always the case, and it’s very obvious. I mean, I know trans identifying people and prior to that they were depressed, in each case were into satanic imagery and art, and lacked sexual validation from the opposite sex, which is a HUGE one. When I was a kid, I used to belt “I feel like a woman” in the car with my mom, and I towed the line between being boyish and girlish in some respects. But I received sexual validation from girls, and I got laid, and today I have a boyfriend and he had the same experience growing up, but we both have acknowledge the reality that we are males and have no doubts about it. And as far as that goes, I don’t trust a gay man who has never been with women, because I don’t believe any of the LGBT nonsense is anything other than a lifestyle choice. The biological imperative to procreate is one of the most fundamental parts of our existence, and anyone who espouses to have no attraction to the opposite sex is not being honest with themselves frankly and I find it very disingenuous. The self deception goes hand in hand with with this trans garbage, because I find that those men are the most likely to question their gender, and it’s not surprising at all. As I have stayed before, where are the confident, sexually successful,attractive boys and girls who think they are trans? Where are they? It’s like they don’t exist. What a coincidence .
@@cory8080 I have had sexual relations with more than one trans woman. I will tell you this: not one passes when you are up close and personal. And I personally have found someone attractive before transitioning, one particular case, but they did not receive sexual validation from specifically the opposite sex.
It's a really tough hand to be dealt in life, with some guaranteed disappointment for many who think they'll feel different or that their life will change. Usually all change to overcome pain requires inner change. You might not get it from any outer thing, including medical modifications. On the Benjamin Boyce podcast there was exactly one transgender female who really passed, visually on camera. ONE. You think it's a bio woman. Those are harsh odds given the hundred or so Trans women he's had on the show, and even with transitioning the person is never a reproducing human female.
@@j_freed i have been all up in the clubs for a minute afterhours everywhere there this and there i have been in it NO ONE passes. idgaf about your IG or your snap or your OF or any vlogs or anything like that does it really need to be explained that NO ONE passes in the flesh ? How did this ridiculous claim gain transaction? I guess most ppl have never literally seen the photos and then met the person the same night. Because none of them pass. The only way anyone passes is conditional on how drugged up or intoxicated you are, which my closest call was being in a K hole before my friend rescued me.
Holy shit. This was by far the best video you have ever made. No need to apologize for laughing, that guy was hilarious. And, a trans person that was able to have a reasonable conversation in the same video. I hope you bought a lottery ticket the day you filmed this. Fantastic. Although, you did ignore that poor blond girl. P.S. As a topic idea. See what you can find on opinions about 'flamboyant' personalities. I tend to think that is the biggest part of the issue with LGBTQ+lmnop acolytes.
The reason it went so well is probably because people were willing to listen to each other, and to hear each other out before rebutting. That's how conversations and debates are supposed to work.
exactly. idk why they deny its a mental issue. like By Definition, its a mental problem. there's nothing even wrong with it being one. but we dont currently have any 'fix' (like meds) that can help them, so we just have to let it happen for now. the only thing we can do is try to stop the huge push of this ideology (to kids especially) because that will make ppl think theyre trans when theyre actually just confused/depressed/etc
Even if we are to assume that being trans is considered a mental illness, the best treatment that we know of is to medically transition. It would be odd to deny people the best known treatment we have.
It is difficult to deal with the mental gymnastics of many of these people. The general population's compassion has been hijacked and this is now bordering on pure emotional manipulation.
It's not bordering it. It is just that. I guess a big part of it is to create an environment where you don't get feed back from other people that would be contradictory to your own identity. It's peak mental weakness.
@I am the one I agree with you when it comes to the zealots. There are many people who still recognize that sex can not be changed and that the social science of "gender" is fluid. I see no issue with recognizing that women and men do not have universal cultural norms. I do take issue with the " if I don't get elected surgery, I will kill myself" argument. That is emotional abuse. I also take issue with the demand that others "affirm" someone else's internal beliefs system.
@@johnsanity Agreed. Woke ideology shares many traits with mainstream religions. Its inherent urge to suppress contradictions within its beliefs is something you'll see often from recognized religions.
That was really good. I like that he was able to be strong and clear with his deeply held beliefs while staying civil, and she was able to keep emotions out of her words. And both listened to the other! Well done 👍🏻
18:47 "I don't think anyone should be forced to affirm anything." 💯I couldn't agree more! I'm only halfway through, but this has already been an incredible back and forth. Much respect to all involved.
23:40 "Yes, because I'm talking to _her_ like a normal human being" God damn, this series can really restore one's faith in humanity. Sometimes, _sometimes_, things are far less polarized than we see on the screens.
Love how they can be polite and discuss it without verbally abusing one another. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your personal feeling !! 🥰
FANTASTIC exchange of opinions. Was very interesting to hear the point of view of a sane trans woman, i really wish you had more time to explore more arguments with her. Also got to appreciate how incredibly blunt and honest that man was. Very rare behaviour to find these days. Thank you
It's so wholesome to see Peter cracking up at the Indian guy's choice of words! I, too, lost it at "I identify as a streetlamp", "bisexual labradoodle", "it's wrong to piss in your friend's lunchbox", and the way that he described anal sex with a completely straight face, hahaha
USA is so sex obsessed.....Mothers don't breastfeed, Sex Ed classes instead of Economics and now they want to abolish the word Gender. Even though Sex is short for Saxon.
There are 3 main ways that people use the word "gender". 1) synonymous to sex 2) "gender identity" 3) gender as in regressive traditional gender roles. The word "gender" is either used redundantly or to describe something that isn't real. "Gender identity" doesn't exist and is just people conflating personality and self-expression. Being male or female is a material reality, not a "feeling" or an "identity". You can be male and want to wear dresses or be female and buzz your head. Gender ideology is so incredibly regressive. And more importantly, you cannot force people to play along with your delusions, especially when it results in males destroying women's sports and placing male rapists in women's prisons.
Not to mention the "spiritual" aspect of Gender Identity as a self-knowledge which when imposed on others creates a compulsion to their "spiritual" beliefs. Therefore, a violation of the right to freedom of religion.
"Being male or female is a material reality, not a "feeling" or an "identity"" Except it can certainly be one. What's the difference between a "father' and a "stepfather"? The answer is clearly a biological difference. Its literally why the word stepfather exists. Except, that if a man is a stepfather, but he has raised a child for most of the child's life, in a caring, supporting, financial, respectful loving manner - is he not a "father" in all but name? Wouldn't it be fair to even say that his identity is that of a "father" as he treat his stepson as his own? Or does the biological distinction seemingly override the fact that a loving stepfather will never be as good as a deadbeat, absentee, sperm-donor-at-best "father"? You know the answer to these questions. A good stepfather is absolutely a father. Why would you refuse to provide the same level of nuance and discourse to transwomen and women?
@@mamo4753 You wrote a whole book to present a red herring. The point is, a stepfather and father are both male. Sure, a father is biologically related to their child, a surrogate father is a guardian and parent. This has nothing to do with sex. You know this. ETA: Men who believes they are women are a subset of men. Acknowledging that truth is nuanced discourse. Lying to yourself and the rest of the world that trans-identified males are actual women is not nuanced discourse.
@@mamo4753you seem to understand that “father” is a category that only a male can fit into. No matter what we call the man who socially fulfills the role of a male parent (and this could be a brother, uncle, or grandfather, as well), the fact will always remain that the man who impregnated the child’s mother is the man who fathered the child in the biological sense. Only a man could do so (and even if he identifies as a woman.)
@@bridgetonowhere Please don't use rhetoric terms like red herring if you don't know what they mean. I made an analogy. One you haven't addressed. No one goes around "correcting" people who call themselves "father" when they are actually "stepfathers", if they present all the characteristics that a father should have. The biological distinction is absolutely meaningless in most contexts.
I don’t know who that trans person was, but where I started off thinking they were being vague & just repeating cliches, by the end I thought they were utterly awesome & spoke wonderfully eloquently. 10/10 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I actually think he did a very good job right off the bat. I also think he faced huge problems growing up realising he was gay and somewhat different from what one would expect from one's anatomy. This could be very traumatising without help, hence, I believe the desperate attempts to get rid of the "offensive" body parts. A huge mistake in my opinion and an option that should never be given to immature, before adulthood, children.
@@danaphamau I'm curious. At the end of this discussion, could you see yourself in the shoes of the man that criticised the gender concept? Would his arguments resonate in you if you weren't who you are? I mean, try to pretend neutrality for a moment, which I know it's, in itself, a titanic task to ask from somebody. P.S. I think you showed class in that dialectical game.
I am only half way through, but for the trans person to hold their calm and be willing to debate whilst told they are insane is so admirable. Seems like its heading to be one of the most sensible and rational trans debates of all time.
He wasn’t calling them insane. This is part of the entire issue. He is talking generally, and answering the question. The mobs on Twitter get offended because he/we use general terms like he is doing and they don’t seem to have the capacity to Listen and respond sensibly. It’s All a crazy Reaction because they think someone is trying to Erase them, but no one can erase them. They seem so starved for validation that they simply react with fear and hostility.
@@Thaimiles he wasn't speaking in general terms, he said that trans people are insane multiple times. We both know if asked "are all trans people insane" how he would respond. I agree that often conversations regarding social relations are spoken in generalities but this man was speaking in absolutes. He said that any deviation from the norm (he called it being complex) is insane, which is the most absolutist argument I've heard so far regarding trans issues
@@patricko9129 After this conversation he may not believe they are all insane. I try not to assume anything. I agree he has some strong beliefs about things and seems he won’t change them, and I thought the trans person was very sensible. My point is it’s just the ones screaming that the media listens to so “normal” people take their sides as to not appear transphobic. It’s maddening.
@@Thaimiles Yeah I agree. I don't think the "Trans Activist Movement" reflects the average trans person very well at all. It makes silly demands like inclusion in Women's sport, that I doubt the avg trans person gives a monkey's about. When you continue to see a procession of Dylan Mulvaney types, it is would be very easy to start to think all trans people are insane. But that is the "insane" world we live in, it just promotes extremes because that is great clickbait.
@@Briaaanz this line of thinking is fine in a philosophy class but it’s not practical for the functioning of society. If we accept everyone can have completely different versions of reality, which defy all logic and reason, then we might as well get rid of all the mental hospitals and stop trying to find cures since who’s to say schizophrenic people aren’t actually being contacted by demons?
@@Briaaanz Our shared objective truths, validated by empirical evidence and consensus, shape reality, not individual perception. Your viewpoint doesn't alter the earth's roundness, does it?
@@Briaaanz You don't know that you could be a brain in a vat or in the Matrix. The point is that we have no way of knowing that we're not. However, when you think you see a duck, it quacks, it smells like a duck, it waddles like a duck, it swims like a duck, makes baby ducks; it is perfectly reasonable to land on the assumption that the duck exists. To believe the duck exists because it is a program in the Matrix and there is a real world in which humanity is cultivated as batteries for an artificial intelligence without any evidence is not perfectly reasonable.
Thank God for this conversation! I feel like these people are speaking the same internal dialogue I'm having on this subject. I particularly appreciate how balanced the trans-woman is. She was very honest and balanced it seemed to me.
Imagine growing up in a slum in some undeveloped country and carrying water jugs on your shoulders in bare feet across dirt roads and wilderness from the time you are 6 years old, the biggest threat to your life is starvation or diseases that are curable in most parts of the world, working insanely hard to develop the skills and confidence to study abroad and lift your entire family out of poverty, becoming a doctor in an advanced western country, then finding yourself standing around trying to debate the reality of sexual dimorphism in humans.
Yeah, it's why the rest of the world without the luxuries of running water is laughing at us. Videos like this is sorely needed so the rest of world doesn't take the worst of western society at its worst times (e.g. June).
This issue about gender is overblown here in the west that its clear as day as an agenda. Danger also mentioning the rat utopia is also a good example of what is transpiring
Well that's just a ridiculous point. In that sense it'd mean anyone not from the slums couldn't complain about anything in their life because compared to some others, their lives are easy? There are still trans people in slums, there are gay people in slums.. you know that right?
This was an absolutely amazing debate on both sides. This should be shown to the world. Big up to both speakers. It was great to see two people have a respectful talk between each other. 👍👌❤️
gender /trans ideology is a religion, an ideology, based in faith. a cult more like and in my opinion rooted in sexism. that being said, i do not believe in it and it does not make me a bigot. i do know that trans people exist and i also believe that they should be treated with decency and respect. how ever, decency and respect is not including trans women in women sports...that is misogyny of the worst kind if all it takes to be a woman is to simply identify as one.
I think this is the most common view. I’ve never spoken with anyone who advocates discrimination against trans people, they just don’t believe what the trans person believes and want to maintain sex based rights.
Rooted in pedophilia I’d say, but yes, I agree, it is the worst form of misogyny there is. And I’d say trans people exists only in the same sense as anorexic people exist. They’re disorders that require treatment.
I love seeing people with differences of opinion being able to talk in such a good and civilized way. Impressed by everyone involved! Thanks Peter for one of the better videos you made!
Indian guy is BASED! He's clearly extremely intelligent and has focused his intellect on this topic for a little bit and come to conclusions that are highly "problematic" in today's culture, but he is 100% confident and calmly explains his beliefs in a way that is virtually unassailable. And he does it, seemingly, without effort.
It was hilarious how he had no idea what he was talking about but was so convinced of himself. No idea about how the scientific method works, nor about transitioning or anal sex...
@@Ap0ske Poor guy. He must be really suffering not knowing the ins and outs of .... chopping off genitals because of a socially contagious mental illness ... and ... anal sex. Maybe you can go teach him about these things and his life will be so much better. "Hey based Indian guy - don't you know that if you cut off your wiener and say you're a woman, that the science is settled and you are a woman then? Don't you know that? And if you don't agree you hate science, did you know that also?.... Heh...... got 'em..... I'm so depressed....."
This trans person is quite reasonable. If only the trans movement was so charitable. It's a terrible situation for people that are trans but IMO the trans movement is doing nothing but turning people against them. I know I was fully in favor of the trans movement initially but it has become a hard line for me due to the actions of the movement itself. They are now preying on children and that is criminal, vile behavior worthy of jail time. The physicians and therapists in the pipeline that are doing life altering surgeries on minors deserve LENGTHY prison sentences.
If we followed the Nuremberg Code (1947), they would be hanged. Seven doctors were, for performing experimental medical/surgical procedures on people who were not in a position to give their informed consent.
The ideology of the "trans movement" was, is and always has been about grooming children. In conjuction with the UN tying to normalise pedophilia, says it all.
@@richardshortall5987in this case I don't see the ideological possession of some TRAs. It's possible that the original genuine transpeople have a different hormonal and brain activation pattern, which makes them susceptible to gender dysphoria. This person seems to have genuinely suffered and transition was the way to cope. They couldn't articulate the emotions and reasons for the suffering... Which is normal, guys have hard times talking about feelings🤭
There is no preying on minors and there is no movement. People are simply coming out with less social stigma like when left handed was no longer a crime
Child beauty pageants were a thing, especially in more conservatives states. No one seemingly cared about the weird sexualization of children on the right until fabricated stories came from conservatives about drag and trans. The #1 cause of child related deaths come from guns. You don't go around asking to ban guns to protect the children. You don't actually care about children. You want to be outraged and an excuse was fabricated for you.
If they want to change the word gender to mean gender identity, they should just say gender identity. I think the only reason they refuse to do so is to muddy the language to help them gain control or the narrative.
Bingo. It’s about control. It’s pretty well know that certain personality disorders are prone to manipulate. It stems from weakness that’s why they tend to go with the “untouchable”. They’re preying on peoples hood nature. That’s where I believe the pushback comes from.
Yet he still called the man she. It's like 2+2=4... except when you have exceptionally large values of 2, because 2=2=5 or 6 or any number really because #'s are just socially constructed right? ;)
I have a question: There is 100 Schizophrenic paitients. 99 of them can be treated with therapy , drugs , or a cobination. 1 of them cant , should we then affirm their schizophrenic delusions ?
There is no reason uttered by that person, you mean that the person is calm not that is reasonable but that is not acting up. Not the same thing as being reasonable. I bet you'd call people who disagree with you right wing radicalized yet you are the one who is calling nonsense "reasonable". You are such a good person that's why you get so many likes.
I was kinda being facetious because yes, I am Australian and I have watched too many videos of American leftists who can’t have a normal conversation because if anyone goes against them they get their feelings hurt and cry about it. We are different in Australia but unfortunately we are breeding a younger generation who are brainwashed and don’t have any critical thinking skills, and also some people my age who are too woke and opinionated about things fed to them. Soooo ya, agree with you and I hope Australia can pick itself up and not be 🐑
I wonder if trying to treat this person with therapy would have worked if they didnt have activists screaming a lie in their ear that they could fully become a woman?
That was a good one. Seriously everybody respected each other as humans even though they differed in opinions. They were all mature and able to have a conversation.
Do you think 18-25 year olds should not serve in the military after all you don't think their brain has fully developed? How about those college loans? I guess their void too.
I have respect for all in this one, it’s refreshing to see such civil discourse. Even though I didn’t agree with all the points I thought it was a productive discussion. Great content
This is the first time I've seen anything like this and hadn't cringed. The trans person has had a lot of years to think their position through and looks as comfortable in their position as you could get. The old fella did okay too, he sounds like he is aware of some of the shenanigans going on. I feel like I could talk to either of them and respect them.
Just because anyone APPEAR TO NE *Calm and Collected...?? It doesn't GIVE THE RIGHT TO BE Able to Earn or expect to attract any other Person attention and ABSOLUTELY ANY TYPE OF RESPECT when trying to Convince ANY normal Woman or Men that there are a such a Thing of those 👺New Unacceptable Brain Washing & Indoctrinating New Sick/Perverted and totally UNREALISTIC type of Definition...WHEN IT COMES TO Be STEADLY normal balanced & Well Informed Intelligent Man & Woman .Out there and EVERYWHERE!!👺
The fat old man is absolutely ridiculous. He doesn't understand science, he confuses being wrong with being insane, he thinks anal sex will kill you, he doesn't believe in climate change, and he believes in Islam. He's not a thinker.
Amazing episode Peter… great job to all participants… if trans rethoric was like hers we wouldn’t be on the position we are now fighting against the absurdists…
Peter edits, frames, and makes preconceived conclusions. He finds a fascist and a transwoman and gives them space. He'll highlight and take out of context anything he deems can leave the transgender in a negative light.
One of the more intelligent street talk. Great content. Great teachings. Love your demeanor. My role model. Cool,calm,collected,kind,intelligent, respec.full....and good looking.
I'm surprised that TH-cam hasn't shut you down! I'm having trouble persuading my husband that I'm a 6 foot 4 inch black trans man instead of a 5 foot White woman. I loved that Trans woman summary. I watched your Portland State street talks, especially the one where the women wanted their faces blocked out and the heated discussion of the folks who came down form the top of the school building. Keep up the great work.
Look I am the absolute FURTHEST thing you will find from a feminist or someone who shrieks "misogyny" at every little thing, but Jesus Tapdancing Christ, Peter, having two dudes argue about gender identity for FULLY A HALF HOUR while not letting the actual woman standing silently right there say a SINGLE word on the subject just absolutely epitomizes everything wrong with these sorts of debates. You're a very clued in guy too, you HAD to be aware of this.
Thank you to the young trans woman. You are extremely articulate and understanding! We all need more of both those traits. Great talk all around. The gentleman participant is a little old school (religious?) in his thinking but was funny, comical and level headed. Thank you all.
He is merely not shouting, as most trans people seem to do in public. Claiming to be trans is in itself a denial of reality, and is therefore not at all reasonable.
Good conversation in general. However, one set of questions that was not asked was whether the trans identified male felt entitled to use women’s spaces and what his reaction would be to being asked to leave a women’s only space.
If you are the trans identified male in the video I guess you’ve answered my first question. If asked to leave a female only space on the basis that you’re male, would you?
@@danaphamau that wasn’t my question. If you were in a female space, and someone said to you, “hey you’re male, you shouldn’t be in here, please leave”. Would you leave?
A professor in America tried to do a similar experiment (with the lines and questions)and was shouted down..screamed at..it's wonderful to see in Australia people speak calmly and allow different opinions .
The problem is, the powers that be are holding onto the stereotypes of gender, boys like trucks and girls like dolls, lets expand what a boy and girl are and what they like and all this goes away, instead we hold on and claim a boy that likes dolls is possibly a girl now, im a 40 year old man who collects care bears, that doesn't change my gender, I simply redefined what my gender means to me.
This was the best one. By far. Thanks to all, including the participants, who have shown us what’s possible in addressing this highly-charged topic. Respectful discussion. Civility. Thoughtful responses. Reason.
@@ninjacrumbs I am not arguing anything. These are just some observations of the mental road blocks present in the rational thought process of most, if not all, human beings.
@@jswets5007 Ok. So it is just a sound advice reminder. Ain`t nothing wrong with that. I was just really taken with it and realized that that is kryptonite to any fringe faction on any issue.
This was so good to watch because 2 people with opposing views could discuss this in a rationale manner whithout being abusive or becoming violent with each other or towards the facilitator of the topic. Well done to all involved!
Not really. He thinks science provides truth , when it only provides the best explanation given the data, and he thinks matters that we look at in science always get resolved with this best explanation, however many are left as open questions . He thinks atheists don't exist , which is just a presupposition because he can't imagine a world without god. On the gender thing I kind of agree with his conclusions but I doubt his reasoning is anything other than knee jerk.
Disagree, evidently 40 years in IT have made him an expert in psychology, biology, sexuality and all the settled science. He’s entitled to his opinions, but that’s about all they are, I happen to think he’s wrong about most of what he says and extremely presumptuous in his assertions about others’ states of mind.
This is the most honest kind and logical trans woman I've ever seen... I respect your choice... And I am glad to call you a woman if you want me to... Very logical.. Respect
If a guy thinks he's Napoleon, that's fine by me. But he has no right to expect me to address him as "Your Imperial Majesty." If a guy thinks he's a woman, that's fine by me. But he has no right to expect me to address him as "she", "her", "ma'am" or anything else of the sort.
with a name like tavuzzi pust i bet you have fun times. i don't expect anyone is going to force you to talk to, or address anyone in any way you don't want to, when was the last time someone did that to you, cos i never even met a trans person (knowingly) let alone had my arm twisted to say "miss", this is the sort of comment that comes from someone who never had any experience of anyone other than your own in group but for some reason people you never met bother you. i bet you want books you never read banned too. and you had to edit your comment?
@HarryNicholas You have extremely limited knowledge and understanding of this topic and it shows. You only need to look towards Canadian legislation and the issues going on in the US to see what he is talking about. Keep your head in the sand all you want but your closed mind is not going to serve you.
Not playing this game. I agree with the man in the opening. You identify as a lamp post. Fine by me. I don't care. But don't ask me to play pretend with you and worse persecute me for not going along.
I think there’s a basic misunderstanding in our mainstream culture. Gender ideology is an ideology not a scientific fact! Gender identity comes from a school of thought or framework. The ideas come from Gender and Queer Theory. Just because something is called a theory doesn’t mean it’s an absolute fact. It’s simply a way of describing a phenomenon. It’s ONE way of thinking about sex differences. Gender ideologues argue that sex differences are constructed by society. While that may be true to some extent, sex differences between men and women are primarily biological. We can argue to what extent they are socially created vs biologically based but there is objective evidence showing that significant differences are biologically related. However, gender ideologues either deny biology or see it as a matter of biological structures that can be swapped out through surgery or altered superficially. This is the point of contention right here! Gender identity proponents don’t give biologically determined differences much credit and INSIST on that their views are correct regarding sex differences. They don’t typically even want to discuss or hear information that contradicts their beliefs. They often describe it as violence. Words are violence suddenly…weird how neatly that idea works to their advantage.🧐 This is where people diverge into two different camps. Gender ideologues say “since sex differences aren’t biologically significant, you can simply construct or pick your sex” based on what you FEEL like. However, feeling something is subjective and can’t be quantified or measured scientifically unlike biological markers such as hormones, cellular mechanisms brain structures, lung size, muscle fibers etc. which are different between men and women. These biological factors also result in different behaviors in men vs women. Subjective experiences are NOT scientifically sound ways of describing sex differences. Regardless, gender ideologues insist that THEIR definitions are objective. The above is why concepts like gender identity are ideological rather than scientific. Since gender ideologues present gender ideology as an absolute truth, people in the mainstream may have bought into it. People also buy into it for reasons of self preservation. It’s easier to simply agree because if you don’t - you might lose your job, be cancelled, intimidated or threatened etc. this fact is a sign that gender ideologues have gone too far and become tyrannical & oppressive. This needs to stop! Gender ideologues need to SIT DOWN and accept the fact that they don’t have the final say when it comes to sex differences. Yes, social norms and expectations surely contribute to differences between men and women, but biology is also very real. Women aren’t going to share womanhood with biological men because we are not the same! It’s also offensive to deny our differences because it negates women. I have carried two babies, given birth naturally, breastfed them, have my period every month, deal with female hormones & their effects on my mood and body, I have certain feminine instincts that men don’t have etc. I might sound dramatic but 99% of mothers would kill to protect their children, the “mama bear” instinct is unique for women. Not saying fathers aren’t protective of their children - only that most women are biologically hyper-vigilant in this respect, maybe because they are physically more vulnerable than men, who knows. All I’m saying is biological men have nothing to do in my female territory and they will never be welcome! If you’re a man who FEELS like a woman, that’s your subjective idea of what a woman is, but it doesn’t actually make you a real woman. I will even address you however you want, but that’s on my discretion, that’s because I believe in being polite, kind and civil. I don’t know what it’s like to be a man and it would be arrogant of me to say that I do. Men and women show different degrees of femininity and masculinity, that’s fine. Be a feminine man all you want, just don’t equate yourself with a woman, because we are NOT the same! Insisting that men can be women is disrespectful to women, selfish, dishonest and arrogant. Anyway, I digress.😁
I'm going to use an analogy for women and transwomen. What is the difference between a father and a stepfather? Well, the biological one. Its why the distinction exists. And yet, there's a legal definition of a father; the legal male guardian of a child. There is a legal process - a transition almost - where a stepfather can adopt a child and become a father. And then there's the social definition. A stepfather who raises their child for many years, loving, financially, supporting, and respectfully is a father in every meaningful way - except for one; the biological aspect. But you are basically making the argument that a stepfather regardless of legal distinction, no matter how loving, supporting, or caring he is - will never be as good as the biological father - even if the father is a deadbeat, absentee, sperm-donor-at-best man. A stepfather who has done everything that a true father would and should, could never FEEL like a father? I don't think that's true. And i don't think that you believe that either.
@@mamo4753 Hi, I don’t think the stepfather vs. biological father argument works in this context. My main point is that biology matters regarding differences between biological men and women. Biological parents vs. non-biological parents is a different comparison. We would have to examine how biology influences our relationships with our children. While there are many stepparents who love their non-biological children deeply, there’s a broad consensus and lots of research showing that maltreatment of kids is lowest among children who live with two biological parents. For example, a study by Aruna Radhakrishna and colleagues at the University of North Carolina showed that abuse is most common in homes with a stepfather or boyfriend, with 80% of the maltreatment occurring between birth and age 4, 20% between ages 4-6, and 27% between ages 6-8. There are several studies showing that bringing an unrelated adult male into the home places children at higher risk of abuse. Of course, that doesn’t mean that every stepfather is abusive! There are many examples of kids who grow up with a stepfather, and they feel very loved, protected, and safe even though he’s not their biological father. I’m sure there are stepparents who love their stepchildren deeply and would do anything to protect them.
@@k.s783 I dont want to be too reductive of your response, but then i have to ask: Do you think its possible for a stepfather to identify as a father? If you answer no, then you are basically saying that the biological element is the most important component of being a parent. If you answer yes, then the biological component isn't that important and the distinction between a father and a stepfather relies more on legal and social values. I think most people would say that yes a stepfather could identify as a father. I'm struggling to find why people aren't willing to give the same affordances to trans people, even if this father-stepfather analogy breaks down at some point.
@@mamo4753 Even though two men can have different personalities or temperaments they are still more similar than a man and a woman. I mean, if you are white but identity as Black, does that make you African-American? Similarly, calling yourself a woman if you’re a biological male doesn’t make you a woman. There are various ways that males and females present and many psychologists explain gender as differences in temperament rather than as constructions by society. Gender dysphoria is a legitimate & stressful illness and it’s connected to body dysmorphia conditions. If you identify as a biological dad it doesn’t make you the biological parent. You might be a better parent than the biological father - but you’re still the stepdad. There’s a reason for the distinction in the terms, if fathers and stepfathers were the same thing, then we wouldn’t have the word stepdad to begin with. Gender ideologues tend to downplay the influence genes have on behavior in men vs women. Aside from the well known influences from hormones, females have 20% fewer dopaminergic neurons than men which influence some forms of behaviors that are innate or predisposed by genes. There are differences in the gene expression in the amygdala, a region implicated in processing emotions. Anyway, there several genetic differences between men and women aside from observable physical differences. I don’t really believe in the idea that you can pick an identify. It implies that you can choose your identity much like you would pick out a pair of shoes. Your identity is your ethnicity, place of birth, language, cultural influences, values your parents raised you with, your religious beliefs or lack thereof. You don’t pick your place of birth, your family, language or culture, right? These things will shape your identity whether you like them or not. Of course when you’re older you can be more purposeful about your identity but your background will inevitably influence those choices too. In that sense identity is handed to you and not something you actively choose, at least not initially. Twin studies of identical twins reared apart have shown that even personality traits are influenced by genetics to a larger degree than most would probably like to believe. I think a major factor in this debate is that gender ideology is informed by the social sciences the other side by natural sciences especially biology & genetics (scientific studies of genes and their effects). If you haven’t already, spend some time studying sex differences in genetics and you’ll soon realize how incompatible the two disciplines are. This is probably why promoters of gender theory are the number one critics of genetic research since it always challenges their claims rather than confirming them. I think the only reason gender ideology has become so accepted is because the other side is much harder to understand, at least for the average layperson. It’s a bummer because they are more interested in maintaining their beliefs than seeking the truth. They are even fighting against funding research they fear will discredit their efforts and call scientists transphobic! Hard sciences are motivated by truth, not by an agenda. Besides the research is important for understanding why some diseases are more prevalent in males vs females which also ties into the effects of medications on males vs females. Sure, men and women are similar in many respects. But gender ideologues are driven by an agenda to erase sex differences (initially thinking it will help women’s rights/status in society, gender studies grew out of feminist studies). While scientists are driven by seeking truth even when that truth hurts someone’s feelings.
I really enjoyed this conversation from an intellectual and humanistic point of view. I understand the man's perspective (agree with him in many), also the trans person point of view and experience, a very thoughtful and sensible person. Civil conversation with arguments and humility to expose different points of view and/or experiences. Kudos to both. Also, to you Peter, we need these conversations.
Though these two individuals have vastly different views, they find points of agreement. More street epistemology videos from Australia are coming, be sure you're subscribed!
That was the first time I have heard a person who identifies as trans consider out loud that it might be a mental disorder.
Thank you for this as it was interesting, calm and both people were respectful, listening to each others views. Nice to watch something without a screeching and baying activist bellowing 'bigot'
It's a shame you didn't ask her how many genders she believes their are.If you Trans(ition) then surely you only believe in 2 sexes
The trans woman was very respectful. I would love to have a chat with them! The way to move forward is with polite and respectful dialogue.
@@Michael_MW You mean she is the average trans woman. Because Peter Boghossian isn't a right-wing grifter, that's what makes the difference.
I'm the trans woman in the conversation. Thanks everyone, it was a pleasure :)
Hey! Question- Do most trans women only want to be called 'a woman', or do they also want to be considered 'a female'?
you did really well! it is so hard not to be nervous and to come up with answers in the middle of a discussion, especially when the viewpoints are different,
you did great indeed!
@@gonzo1483 depends on the trans woman tbh. Not two trans women are the same haha!
You were an absolute delight. Although I think the gentleman was needlessly a bit insulting at times, you remained calm, measured, articulate and respectful. I am not throwing him under the bus because overall, it was a beautiful example of a successful conversation that is so rare. I have this suspicion that most people who are trans and most who have doubts about the identity are normal down to earth people and not the hysterical few throwing tantrums on social media.
Well done.
It was a pleasure to listen to you❤
The trans person was engaging in good faith and very reasonable. Props.
It’s not reasonable to claim to be something you aren’t. He doesn’t pass at all. Clearly male.
Actually, if you listen closely, the content of the words that come out of the trans person is 90% nothing-statements and 10% signaling their civility with Peter.
@@crunchyman5330 it's a complicated world.
@@danaphamau 😂so insightful, such meaning!
I agree the trans person words were cyclical and kind of pointless, but I thought reasonable. Great work again Peter, thank you.
This was the best one yet. The participants engaged in good faith, made reasoned, and sound arguments. I really appreciate watching it.
For anyone wondering. you have seen many transgender people during the week. Most you have no idea they are transgender. You have no idea who they are. They have no idea who you are.
We all just living our own life and doing mostly what everyone else does. Sex working? No. Regular jobs, regular families, regular home and living conditions.
Stop attacking people who you don't know. When these videos are only meant to put distrust in medical professional who perform surgeries on your teenage children.
Anyone who wonder what transgender is - the difference between you and a transgendered person. 1 or 2 different pills for 2-3 years.
That is the only difference, concerning physical intake and medicine effects.
Seeing civil discourse is a beautiful thing. Thank you Dr. Boghossian and participants.
Thank you for watching :)
@@danaphamau you conducted your self well
Dana Pham you rock!🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
@@danaphamau I disagree with you on the argument but you actually showed how a debate should be conducted. you were not looking for reasons to be offended nor did you make yourself look like a victim. It may be the fact that Australians are a lot more relaxed and 'she'll be right mate'
Saying gender dysphoria is "insane" is a bit harsh, and I think an exaggeration. I would say (as a transwoman) that it's pretty neurotic. I'd be more inclined to call it insane if the person truly believed that they are really the opposite sex. When people say things like, "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body," they are likely being metaphorical. When a little boy, for example, says, "I'm a girl," he doesn't understand what a girl is.
Regardless of views on gender, a grown adult who believes in Satan has no business questioning someone else's sanity.
How wonderful that you found some intelligent, educated, thinking people to have a reasoned debate on the streets of Sydney! No screaming, no hateful slogans, no interruptions. Pleasure to listen to it
No problem mate :)
Where were they?
It's worse. It's trying to foist new word definitions on everyone. They want us to accept a new meaning for "woman", even though they either can't or won't define it without resorting to using the word itself ("A woman is anyone who says she is a woman"). But what they really mean is either (1) an adult female who doesn't claim to be a man, or (2) a biological male whose perception of feminine stereotypes, and his mental affinity for same, has caused him to dress and act according to said stereotypes.
I agree! Wish we saw more of that here in the states!
Australian are pretty peaceful in general.
I think the reason the discussion went so well was because no one assumed malice in each others arguments.
It is malicious when men invade women's spaces
@@soniaess28 Different subject
@@ZoniZahiRoniZahi that is the very core of this subject
@@soniaess28 LOL. No it's not. That's a very dumb comment.
@@soniaess28his subject regarded a specific trans person, and that specific trans person seems like someone who would not invade women's spaces. I'm very anti-trans movement, but I can still empathise with trans individuals who aren't walking in lockstep with the movement.
Asking a confused person to identify what they are confused about never ends well.
Software engineers have to do this all the time, I'd say it works out fine.
I personally know someone who asked their 4yr old. He was obviously confused and now wants to be a (they/them). It's child abuse in my opinion.
Isn't it exactly what therapy is?
@@TheStealthFire dumb take
@@TheStealthFire well this isn't the situation it's more like a confused person what the true reality is.
I especially appreciated what the blonde woman in the dress had to say.
😂
😂😂😂
It was such a shitty move to completely ignore her.
Well no-one seems particularly interested in what old school biological women have to say, anymore. It’s like the second wave of feminism got erased and women’s opinions have once again been invalidated and they are yet again rendered invisible. I guess that’s why no one noticed or bothered to seek an opinion from the blonde woman. 🤷🏻♀️ 👩🏻🦳
I agreed with her 100% ! I can't believe people are not talking about her viewpoint more.
Great conversation. So proud of the Aussies in this being able to speak respectfully.
My pleasure :)
Ghetto azzz Americans can't have this kind of dialogue lolol
That was one of the Best interactions with based people on completely opposite sides of the spectrum ideologically, thank you!
My pleasure :)
What a brilliant episode.
In this shouty, bigoted world a Green shoot of calm, considerate debate that allows one to appreciate both sides of a difficult discussion.
Such a difference from the usual radicalised presentation of a triggering topic.
I personally would side more with the gentleman’s view but the lady’s thoughts/views did leave me with more compassion for her belief.
Bravo Peter
@@danaphamau what up pham :D
That Transwoman gave a logical argument and had the patience to enter into the discussion - more of this please
Will try to :)
Good luck. Her ability to have this sort of exploration seems to be incredibly rare amongst people in the LGBT community and I guess most liberals
What argument exactly? Lol. I just heard word salad and platitudes.
@@justinhunt1714 I’m starting to see that more and more and I’m for it.
It's not a woman.
When the truth is offensive, society is the problem, not the individual
Oh my god I love this older gentleman! 😂 He gets his point across so easily and with great humor!
He's so HONEST & STRAIGHT-FORWARD
He should have his own podcast.
He have a very bad understanding of "science"
He is a true example of a loving empathetic human being. His family is very lucky.
@@jacobjohnson6766 You're right, he did say science is settled, showing he have no idea what he's talking about.
At one point he even said anal sex is evil and will kill you... A true man of science 🙄
I’ma be honest, he asked the trans man why the conversation went so well and the answer is him! This was the most civil, level headed trans individual I’ve ever seen in a discord. And the other guy actually said enough to get offended by unlike most situations I’ve seen! 💪🏽
I do appreciate that these videos allow both sides to be heard. That trans woman is the most reasonable trans person I've come across (online or in person) in a very long time. Great discussion!
My pleasure :)
I absolutely despise the notion that what men and women wear or how they act would somehow confuse others. Mongols, Englishmen, Greeks, Romans, Spaniards, Arabs, etc had no problem identifying the women of any foreign culture they encountered. Mannerisms and dress didn't turn their whole world view upside down.
Right, this is a very callous point, but for all of history, when plundering and pillaging I am sure the invaders knew who to rape. Of course I wasn't there but I'm pretty sure there were not a ton of mistakes.
@@thisguy3032 As it turns out, many warriors did not discriminate. By choice, or by mistake is still up for debate.
@@johnsanity I was there. We decided that a hole is a hole, just go for it
@@johnsanity Actually as it turns out most warriors did discriminate. And the ones that didn't got killed by the ones that did.
@@thisguy3032 you are assuming that only women were raped but young men and boys would have been targets of that kind of violence too because rape is not about sex it's about power and violence.
“These people are in intellectual pain, and we need to help them” based. Very nice to see an articulate person explain why his disagreement is rooted largely in compassion. Sad to think people will view it as hatred; it is the opposite.
And this is always the case, and it’s very obvious. I mean, I know trans identifying people and prior to that they were depressed, in each case were into satanic imagery and art, and lacked sexual validation from the opposite sex, which is a HUGE one. When I was a kid, I used to belt “I feel like a woman” in the car with my mom, and I towed the line between being boyish and girlish in some respects. But I received sexual validation from girls, and I got laid, and today I have a boyfriend and he had the same experience growing up, but we both have acknowledge the reality that we are males and have no doubts about it. And as far as that goes, I don’t trust a gay man who has never been with women, because I don’t believe any of the LGBT nonsense is anything other than a lifestyle choice. The biological imperative to procreate is one of the most fundamental parts of our existence, and anyone who espouses to have no attraction to the opposite sex is not being honest with themselves frankly and I find it very disingenuous. The self deception goes hand in hand with with this trans garbage, because I find that those men are the most likely to question their gender, and it’s not surprising at all.
As I have stayed before, where are the confident, sexually successful,attractive boys and girls who think they are trans? Where are they? It’s like they don’t exist. What a coincidence .
Neh, he's an ignorant moron.
@@cory8080 I have had sexual relations with more than one trans woman. I will tell you this: not one passes when you are up close and personal. And I personally have found someone attractive before transitioning, one particular case, but they did not receive sexual validation from specifically the opposite sex.
It's a really tough hand to be dealt in life, with some guaranteed disappointment for many who think they'll feel different or that their life will change.
Usually all change to overcome pain requires inner change. You might not get it from any outer thing, including medical modifications.
On the Benjamin Boyce podcast there was exactly one transgender female who really passed, visually on camera. ONE. You think it's a bio woman. Those are harsh odds given the hundred or so Trans women he's had on the show, and even with transitioning the person is never a reproducing human female.
@@j_freed i have been all up in the clubs for a minute afterhours everywhere there this and there i have been in it NO ONE passes. idgaf about your IG or your snap or your OF or any vlogs or anything like that does it really need to be explained that NO ONE passes in the flesh ? How did this ridiculous claim gain transaction? I guess most ppl have never literally seen the photos and then met the person the same night. Because none of them pass. The only way anyone passes is conditional on how drugged up or intoxicated you are, which my closest call was being in a K hole before my friend rescued me.
Holy shit. This was by far the best video you have ever made. No need to apologize for laughing, that guy was hilarious. And, a trans person that was able to have a reasonable conversation in the same video. I hope you bought a lottery ticket the day you filmed this. Fantastic.
Although, you did ignore that poor blond girl.
P.S. As a topic idea. See what you can find on opinions about 'flamboyant' personalities. I tend to think that is the biggest part of the issue with LGBTQ+lmnop acolytes.
I think she was ignored because she was neutral. And the other two were engaging and refreshingly respectful and articulate.
The reason it went so well is probably because people were willing to listen to each other, and to hear each other out before rebutting. That's how conversations and debates are supposed to work.
What I can say with certainty: If you have a healthy body and cannot accept it, then the problem lies in your head.
And life just goes on for me...
exactly. idk why they deny its a mental issue. like By Definition, its a mental problem. there's nothing even wrong with it being one. but we dont currently have any 'fix' (like meds) that can help them, so we just have to let it happen for now. the only thing we can do is try to stop the huge push of this ideology (to kids especially) because that will make ppl think theyre trans when theyre actually just confused/depressed/etc
Even if we are to assume that being trans is considered a mental illness, the best treatment that we know of is to medically transition. It would be odd to deny people the best known treatment we have.
@Siona Great post
And so then please stay away from children till you get your head straight
This is vastly more civilised than most of the american universities that had these interviews.
Mature individuals vs. Brainwashed teenagers
Probably because the TRAs didn't know they were coming so didn't ambush them
Correct
Isn't that interesting.
Are the young becoming less tolerant with their presumed heightened tolerance.
Aussies are incredibly laid back. Tho it comes hand in hand with casual racism and jokes about homosexuals.
so refreshing, adults having an adult conversation with other adults. more please :D
It is difficult to deal with the mental gymnastics of many of these people. The general population's compassion has been hijacked and this is now bordering on pure emotional manipulation.
It's not bordering it. It is just that. I guess a big part of it is to create an environment where you don't get feed back from other people that would be contradictory to your own identity. It's peak mental weakness.
@I am the one I agree with you when it comes to the zealots. There are many people who still recognize that sex can not be changed and that the social science of "gender" is fluid. I see no issue with recognizing that women and men do not have universal cultural norms. I do take issue with the " if I don't get elected surgery, I will kill myself" argument. That is emotional abuse. I also take issue with the demand that others "affirm" someone else's internal beliefs system.
It's not much different from half the population thinking they are immortal based entirely on their chosen religious identity.
@@johnsanity it's different because they aren't requiring that I tell them they are correct
@@johnsanity Agreed. Woke ideology shares many traits with mainstream religions. Its inherent urge to suppress contradictions within its beliefs is something you'll see often from recognized religions.
That was really good. I like that he was able to be strong and clear with his deeply held beliefs while staying civil, and she was able to keep emotions out of her words. And both listened to the other! Well done 👍🏻
It was a pleasure mate :)
*he. Three men dominated this conversation
@@soniaess28😂 the poor woman had three dudes mansplaining gender at her
18:47 "I don't think anyone should be forced to affirm anything."
💯I couldn't agree more! I'm only halfway through, but this has already been an incredible back and forth. Much respect to all involved.
23:40 "Yes, because I'm talking to _her_ like a normal human being"
God damn, this series can really restore one's faith in humanity. Sometimes, _sometimes_, things are far less polarized than we see on the screens.
🤣🤣🤣 I'll stop time stamping, but when Peter said "I'm 56" I about lost my shit! 🤣
What is interesting about his age? Your comment would have impact if you provide context.
Love how they can be polite and discuss it without verbally abusing one another.
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your personal feeling !! 🥰
Kudos to the trans person for participating in a genuine and open way.
FANTASTIC exchange of opinions. Was very interesting to hear the point of view of a sane trans woman, i really wish you had more time to explore more arguments with her.
Also got to appreciate how incredibly blunt and honest that man was. Very rare behaviour to find these days.
Thank you
Delighted you enjoyed it!
It's so wholesome to see Peter cracking up at the Indian guy's choice of words! I, too, lost it at "I identify as a streetlamp", "bisexual labradoodle", "it's wrong to piss in your friend's lunchbox", and the way that he described anal sex with a completely straight face, hahaha
He needs his own podcast lmao he's hilarious and based AF 😅
Wow - welcome to Australia. Hope we treated you well
Fantastically well. Right before we shot this we asked the police if we could film. One officer said, “Of course, mate”.
It is refreshing to see an adult conversation without loony toons and adult children walking by and cursing and yelling.
If only trans folks in America were as introspective and considerate as this trans woman. Kudos lady!
I think what happened was that the trans person went through all this before the mass propaganda came through.
Exactly… people would be way more accepting… trans activists just make everything worse for us and for people like her.
I'm half way through and the lady hasn't spoken yet.
USA is so sex obsessed.....Mothers don't breastfeed, Sex Ed classes instead of Economics and now they want to abolish the word Gender. Even though Sex is short for Saxon.
They are but the trans folks that just get on with their lives tend to not be used within the media for hysteria
There are 3 main ways that people use the word "gender". 1) synonymous to sex 2) "gender identity" 3) gender as in regressive traditional gender roles. The word "gender" is either used redundantly or to describe something that isn't real. "Gender identity" doesn't exist and is just people conflating personality and self-expression. Being male or female is a material reality, not a "feeling" or an "identity". You can be male and want to wear dresses or be female and buzz your head. Gender ideology is so incredibly regressive. And more importantly, you cannot force people to play along with your delusions, especially when it results in males destroying women's sports and placing male rapists in women's prisons.
Not to mention the "spiritual" aspect of Gender Identity as a self-knowledge which when imposed on others creates a compulsion to their "spiritual" beliefs. Therefore, a violation of the right to freedom of religion.
"Being male or female is a material reality, not a "feeling" or an "identity""
Except it can certainly be one. What's the difference between a "father' and a "stepfather"? The answer is clearly a biological difference. Its literally why the word stepfather exists. Except, that if a man is a stepfather, but he has raised a child for most of the child's life, in a caring, supporting, financial, respectful loving manner - is he not a "father" in all but name? Wouldn't it be fair to even say that his identity is that of a "father" as he treat his stepson as his own?
Or does the biological distinction seemingly override the fact that a loving stepfather will never be as good as a deadbeat, absentee, sperm-donor-at-best "father"?
You know the answer to these questions. A good stepfather is absolutely a father.
Why would you refuse to provide the same level of nuance and discourse to transwomen and women?
@@mamo4753 You wrote a whole book to present a red herring. The point is, a stepfather and father are both male. Sure, a father is biologically related to their child, a surrogate father is a guardian and parent. This has nothing to do with sex. You know this.
ETA: Men who believes they are women are a subset of men. Acknowledging that truth is nuanced discourse. Lying to yourself and the rest of the world that trans-identified males are actual women is not nuanced discourse.
@@mamo4753you seem to understand that “father” is a category that only a male can fit into. No matter what we call the man who socially fulfills the role of a male parent (and this could be a brother, uncle, or grandfather, as well), the fact will always remain that the man who impregnated the child’s mother is the man who fathered the child in the biological sense. Only a man could do so (and even if he identifies as a woman.)
@@bridgetonowhere Please don't use rhetoric terms like red herring if you don't know what they mean. I made an analogy. One you haven't addressed.
No one goes around "correcting" people who call themselves "father" when they are actually "stepfathers", if they present all the characteristics that a father should have. The biological distinction is absolutely meaningless in most contexts.
Did anyone else feel bad for the woman in the front who was never given a chance to speak, and who just stood there waiting awkwardly?
I was scrolling down, trying to find a comment saying exactly that! I felt bad for her.
Absolutely! She was waiting so politely
I don’t know who that trans person was, but where I started off thinking they were being vague & just repeating cliches, by the end I thought they were utterly awesome & spoke wonderfully eloquently.
10/10 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Still a denier of reality, with an untreated mental illness.
I actually think he did a very good job right off the bat. I also think he faced huge problems growing up realising he was gay and somewhat different from what one would expect from one's anatomy. This could be very traumatising without help, hence, I believe the desperate attempts to get rid of the "offensive" body parts. A huge mistake in my opinion and an option that should never be given to immature, before adulthood, children.
I try to avoid cliches as best I can :)
@@danaphamau I'm curious. At the end of this discussion, could you see yourself in the shoes of the man that criticised the gender concept? Would his arguments resonate in you if you weren't who you are? I mean, try to pretend neutrality for a moment, which I know it's, in itself, a titanic task to ask from somebody.
P.S. I think you showed class in that dialectical game.
@@danaphamauIt seems as if all trans people try to fit traditional stereotypes which seems illogical
I am only half way through, but for the trans person to hold their calm and be willing to debate whilst told they are insane is so admirable. Seems like its heading to be one of the most sensible and rational trans debates of all time.
I'm glad you enjoyed it, it was my pleasure :)
He wasn’t calling them insane. This is part of the entire issue. He is talking generally, and answering the question. The mobs on Twitter get offended because he/we use general terms like he is doing and they don’t seem to have the capacity to Listen and respond sensibly. It’s All a crazy Reaction because they think someone is trying to Erase them, but no one can erase them. They seem so starved for validation that they simply react with fear and hostility.
@@Thaimiles he wasn't speaking in general terms, he said that trans people are insane multiple times. We both know if asked "are all trans people insane" how he would respond. I agree that often conversations regarding social relations are spoken in generalities but this man was speaking in absolutes. He said that any deviation from the norm (he called it being complex) is insane, which is the most absolutist argument I've heard so far regarding trans issues
@@patricko9129 After this conversation he may not believe they are all insane. I try not to assume anything.
I agree he has some strong beliefs about things and seems he won’t change them, and I thought the trans person was very sensible. My point is it’s just the ones screaming that the media listens to so “normal” people take their sides as to not appear transphobic. It’s maddening.
@@Thaimiles Yeah I agree. I don't think the "Trans Activist Movement" reflects the average trans person very well at all. It makes silly demands like inclusion in Women's sport, that I doubt the avg trans person gives a monkey's about. When you continue to see a procession of Dylan Mulvaney types, it is would be very easy to start to think all trans people are insane. But that is the "insane" world we live in, it just promotes extremes because that is great clickbait.
This was a great one. Refreshing to see 2 people being so reasonable and respectful, while disagreeing completely.
"If you argue against reality, it means you're insane."
How can we say we perceived reality the same? U could be a brain in a vat, or acting as a battery while locked in the Matrix
@@Briaaanz this line of thinking is fine in a philosophy class but it’s not practical for the functioning of society. If we accept everyone can have completely different versions of reality, which defy all logic and reason, then we might as well get rid of all the mental hospitals and stop trying to find cures since who’s to say schizophrenic people aren’t actually being contacted by demons?
@@Briaaanz Our shared objective truths, validated by empirical evidence and consensus, shape reality, not individual perception. Your viewpoint doesn't alter the earth's roundness, does it?
@@RonMarek so objectively, is the dress blue or yellow?
Keep in mind, i was just being mildly snarky. Don't take comments too seriously. 😁
@@Briaaanz You don't know that you could be a brain in a vat or in the Matrix. The point is that we have no way of knowing that we're not. However, when you think you see a duck, it quacks, it smells like a duck, it waddles like a duck, it swims like a duck, makes baby ducks; it is perfectly reasonable to land on the assumption that the duck exists. To believe the duck exists because it is a program in the Matrix and there is a real world in which humanity is cultivated as batteries for an artificial intelligence without any evidence is not perfectly reasonable.
Thank God for this conversation! I feel like these people are speaking the same internal dialogue I'm having on this subject. I particularly appreciate how balanced the trans-woman is. She was very honest and balanced it seemed to me.
I'm glad to hear, it was my pleasure!
Best conversation on this I have heard. Well done Aussies!
Imagine growing up in a slum in some undeveloped country and carrying water jugs on your shoulders in bare feet across dirt roads and wilderness from the time you are 6 years old, the biggest threat to your life is starvation or diseases that are curable in most parts of the world, working insanely hard to develop the skills and confidence to study abroad and lift your entire family out of poverty, becoming a doctor in an advanced western country, then finding yourself standing around trying to debate the reality of sexual dimorphism in humans.
Yeah, it's why the rest of the world without the luxuries of running water is laughing at us. Videos like this is sorely needed so the rest of world doesn't take the worst of western society at its worst times (e.g. June).
interesting comment in it's lack of connection to the point.
This issue about gender is overblown here in the west that its clear as day as an agenda.
Danger also mentioning the rat utopia is also a good example of what is transpiring
Well that's just a ridiculous point. In that sense it'd mean anyone not from the slums couldn't complain about anything in their life because compared to some others, their lives are easy?
There are still trans people in slums, there are gay people in slums.. you know that right?
I kinda feel bad for the woman with the blue shirt... she was not given any speaking time.
Yeah I guess actual women have no say, right? smfh
Shouldn't have been a fence sitter. Stand for something.
@@zeenuf00 😂 bruh
Fence sitters gonna share what point of view? That it hurts coz the iron in sharp?
@@AuntyJack123 You are not very familiar with Peter's videos, are you? He often does ask the "neutral" stanced people for their opinion.
This was an absolutely amazing debate on both sides. This should be shown to the world. Big up to both speakers. It was great to see two people have a respectful talk between each other. 👍👌❤️
it's a sad day when acting like normal human beings is considered the exception.
gender /trans ideology is a religion, an ideology, based in faith. a cult more like and in my opinion rooted in sexism. that being said, i do not believe in it and it does not make me a bigot. i do know that trans people exist and i also believe that they should be treated with decency and respect. how ever, decency and respect is not including trans women in women sports...that is misogyny of the worst kind if all it takes to be a woman is to simply identify as one.
I think this is the most common view. I’ve never spoken with anyone who advocates discrimination against trans people, they just don’t believe what the trans person believes and want to maintain sex based rights.
You're wrong, it's not a religion or a cult, we don't have any cohesive meetings like one. I think you're just a bigot.
@@tracyaf6084 'transgenderism' isn't a real thing.
Rooted in pedophilia I’d say, but yes, I agree, it is the worst form of misogyny there is. And I’d say trans people exists only in the same sense as anorexic people exist. They’re disorders that require treatment.
Well said.
I love seeing people with differences of opinion being able to talk in such a good and civilized way. Impressed by everyone involved!
Thanks Peter for one of the better videos you made!
Indian guy is BASED! He's clearly extremely intelligent and has focused his intellect on this topic for a little bit and come to conclusions that are highly "problematic" in today's culture, but he is 100% confident and calmly explains his beliefs in a way that is virtually unassailable. And he does it, seemingly, without effort.
He's dumb AF.
He represent all of us in Asia. Please let this craziness stay put in Australia..
It was hilarious how he had no idea what he was talking about but was so convinced of himself. No idea about how the scientific method works, nor about transitioning or anal sex...
@@Ap0ske Poor guy. He must be really suffering not knowing the ins and outs of .... chopping off genitals because of a socially contagious mental illness ... and ... anal sex. Maybe you can go teach him about these things and his life will be so much better.
"Hey based Indian guy - don't you know that if you cut off your wiener and say you're a woman, that the science is settled and you are a woman then? Don't you know that? And if you don't agree you hate science, did you know that also?.... Heh...... got 'em..... I'm so depressed....."
What is based?
This trans person is quite reasonable. If only the trans movement was so charitable. It's a terrible situation for people that are trans but IMO the trans movement is doing nothing but turning people against them.
I know I was fully in favor of the trans movement initially but it has become a hard line for me due to the actions of the movement itself. They are now preying on children and that is criminal, vile behavior worthy of jail time. The physicians and therapists in the pipeline that are doing life altering surgeries on minors deserve LENGTHY prison sentences.
If we followed the Nuremberg Code (1947), they would be hanged. Seven doctors were, for performing experimental medical/surgical procedures on people who were not in a position to give their informed consent.
The ideology of the "trans movement" was, is and always has been about grooming children. In conjuction with the UN tying to normalise pedophilia, says it all.
@@richardshortall5987in this case I don't see the ideological possession of some TRAs. It's possible that the original genuine transpeople have a different hormonal and brain activation pattern, which makes them susceptible to gender dysphoria. This person seems to have genuinely suffered and transition was the way to cope. They couldn't articulate the emotions and reasons for the suffering... Which is normal, guys have hard times talking about feelings🤭
There is no preying on minors and there is no movement. People are simply coming out with less social stigma like when left handed was no longer a crime
Child beauty pageants were a thing, especially in more conservatives states. No one seemingly cared about the weird sexualization of children on the right until fabricated stories came from conservatives about drag and trans.
The #1 cause of child related deaths come from guns. You don't go around asking to ban guns to protect the children.
You don't actually care about children. You want to be outraged and an excuse was fabricated for you.
Calm discourse between people that disagree on topics. I didn't think existed anymore. Great discussion.
this man is supremely based
loved this conversation.
You're extremely idiotic.
The Trans Women isn't a Trans Activist and that's refreshing. I would call her, she.
@@eudymaverickmentor *trans woman
Fascinating, Peter - thanks to you, your crew and the three people who took part.
☝️😎
This is the wildest conversation ever. Both individuals are both reasonable and extreme at the same time 😂
My pleasure :)
It’s amazing
It’s the epitome of productive debate.
❤
If they want to change the word gender to mean gender identity, they should just say gender identity. I think the only reason they refuse to do so is to muddy the language to help them gain control or the narrative.
Bingo. It’s about control. It’s pretty well know that certain personality disorders are prone to manipulate. It stems from weakness that’s why they tend to go with the “untouchable”. They’re preying on peoples hood nature. That’s where I believe the pushback comes from.
Just change it to male or female stereotypes. Because that’s just what it is!
Gender is just another word for sex. When it’s used any other way, that interlocutor is deploying confusion.
Exactly. That's what they are trying relentlessly. I believe, they are so confused, they want to confuse everybody else. To feel less confused maybe.
They do say gender identity. And trans means transition to the opposite gender that is assigned to our birth sex.
I love how smart this guy is. not afraid to say the truth
Yet he still called the man she.
It's like 2+2=4... except when you have exceptionally large values of 2, because 2=2=5 or 6 or any number really because #'s are just socially constructed right? ;)
Thank you for this video. The last words brought a tear to my eye. It is so refreshing to hear people speak and listen.
It was a pleasure :)
Just a fantastic conversation! Kudos to all involved for their civility and honesty. ❤
That probably the most respectful trans that you’ve ever interviewed.
I have a question: There is 100 Schizophrenic paitients. 99 of them can be treated with therapy , drugs , or a cobination. 1 of them cant , should we then affirm their schizophrenic delusions ?
The trans woman was relatively reasonable, i dig that.
Most are, but they do not make the sensationalist news cut.
@@johnsanity Which is unfortunate because that is how folks right-leaning, become radicalized.
@@weego2585 Agreed! And so the perception gap continues to grow.
There is no reason uttered by that person, you mean that the person is calm not that is reasonable but that is not acting up. Not the same thing as being reasonable. I bet you'd call people who disagree with you right wing radicalized yet you are the one who is calling nonsense "reasonable". You are such a good person that's why you get so many likes.
Don't have the radicalized activists broadcast by media outlets then, especially mainstream ones, and you won't have as many "radical right-leaners."
i am completely shocked by the normal conversation i’m seeing where people listen and respect one another
Its Australia, we just speak our mind and not lose the plot
I was kinda being facetious because yes, I am Australian and I have watched too many videos of American leftists who can’t have a normal conversation because if anyone goes against them they get their feelings hurt and cry about it. We are different in Australia but unfortunately we are breeding a younger generation who are brainwashed and don’t have any critical thinking skills, and also some people my age who are too woke and opinionated about things fed to them. Soooo ya, agree with you and I hope Australia can pick itself up and not be 🐑
I wonder if trying to treat this person with therapy would have worked if they didnt have activists screaming a lie in their ear that they could fully become a woman?
It didn't work for me in the early 2000s
That was a good one. Seriously everybody respected each other as humans even though they differed in opinions. They were all mature and able to have a conversation.
Do you think 18-25 year olds should not serve in the military after all you don't think their brain has fully developed? How about those college loans? I guess their void too.
dfd
This is why I love Australia. You can have a debate on hot topics without escalating. The trans community needs more ppl like her.
Then you haven't seen what the fed government is trying to push through which will effectively destroy the ability to have that discussion.
"He was on drugs", man this guy knows comedic timing.
I have respect for all in this one, it’s refreshing to see such civil discourse.
Even though I didn’t agree with all the points I thought it was a productive discussion.
Great content
This is the first time I've seen anything like this and hadn't cringed. The trans person has had a lot of years to think their position through and looks as comfortable in their position as you could get. The old fella did okay too, he sounds like he is aware of some of the shenanigans going on. I feel like I could talk to either of them and respect them.
Just because anyone APPEAR TO NE *Calm and Collected...?? It doesn't GIVE THE RIGHT TO BE Able to Earn or expect to attract any other Person attention and ABSOLUTELY ANY TYPE OF RESPECT when trying to Convince ANY normal Woman or Men that there are a such a Thing of those 👺New Unacceptable Brain Washing & Indoctrinating New Sick/Perverted and totally UNREALISTIC type of Definition...WHEN IT COMES TO Be STEADLY normal balanced & Well Informed Intelligent Man & Woman .Out there and EVERYWHERE!!👺
Sure but only one of them is correct
The fat old man is absolutely ridiculous. He doesn't understand science, he confuses being wrong with being insane, he thinks anal sex will kill you, he doesn't believe in climate change, and he believes in Islam. He's not a thinker.
Amazing episode Peter… great job to all participants… if trans rethoric was like hers we wouldn’t be on the position we are now fighting against the absurdists…
Peter edits, frames, and makes preconceived conclusions. He finds a fascist and a transwoman and gives them space. He'll highlight and take out of context anything he deems can leave the transgender in a negative light.
fdd
fdfd fdfdf dfdf fdf dfdf dfdf
One of the most courteous conversations I have ever heard on the topic.
This guy made an excellent observation and is such a clear and logical voice. It is sex dysmorphia.
Incredible discussion and I really appreciate both individuals for speaking so openly about their beliefs.
One of the more intelligent street talk. Great content. Great teachings. Love your demeanor. My role model. Cool,calm,collected,kind,intelligent,
respec.full....and good looking.
I'm surprised that TH-cam hasn't shut you down! I'm having trouble persuading my husband that I'm a 6 foot 4 inch black trans man instead of a 5 foot White woman. I loved that Trans woman summary. I watched your Portland State street talks, especially the one where the women wanted their faces blocked out and the heated discussion of the folks who came down form the top of the school building. Keep up the great work.
Look I am the absolute FURTHEST thing you will find from a feminist or someone who shrieks "misogyny" at every little thing, but Jesus Tapdancing Christ, Peter, having two dudes argue about gender identity for FULLY A HALF HOUR while not letting the actual woman standing silently right there say a SINGLE word on the subject just absolutely epitomizes everything wrong with these sorts of debates. You're a very clued in guy too, you HAD to be aware of this.
Thank you to the young trans woman. You are extremely articulate and understanding! We all need more of both those traits. Great talk all around. The gentleman participant is a little old school (religious?) in his thinking but was funny, comical and level headed. Thank you all.
He is merely not shouting, as most trans people seem to do in public. Claiming to be trans is in itself a denial of reality, and is therefore not at all reasonable.
Peter thank you so much for these discussions, which are difficult but essential. There is hope for Australia yet 👏
This was a very insightful conversation. I learned a lot. Main takeaway, BE RESPECTFUL ❤
Good conversation in general. However, one set of questions that was not asked was whether the trans identified male felt entitled to use women’s spaces and what his reaction would be to being asked to leave a women’s only space.
If you did see me use women’s spaces, would you have known?
@@danaphamau to be honest yes,you can see something is not right
If you are the trans identified male in the video I guess you’ve answered my first question. If asked to leave a female only space on the basis that you’re male, would you?
@@nztasha I've never been asked to leave female-only spaces.
@@danaphamau that wasn’t my question. If you were in a female space, and someone said to you, “hey you’re male, you shouldn’t be in here, please leave”. Would you leave?
The Indian guy was hilarious. The trans woman was a good sport. Great conversation
A professor in America tried to do a similar experiment (with the lines and questions)and was shouted down..screamed at..it's wonderful to see in Australia people speak calmly and allow different opinions .
I think it was the same guy. But in America lots of people are triggered very easily.
He's done them in US
That was HIM!!! Lol
The problem is, the powers that be are holding onto the stereotypes of gender, boys like trucks and girls like dolls, lets expand what a boy and girl are and what they like and all this goes away, instead we hold on and claim a boy that likes dolls is possibly a girl now, im a 40 year old man who collects care bears, that doesn't change my gender, I simply redefined what my gender means to me.
This was the best one. By far. Thanks to all, including the participants, who have shown us what’s possible in addressing this highly-charged topic. Respectful discussion. Civility. Thoughtful responses. Reason.
Ideology is the enemy of critical thinking and rational conversation is the enemy of dogmatic decision making.
I agree. But what are you arguing?
@@ninjacrumbs I am not arguing anything. These are just some observations of the mental road blocks present in the rational thought process of most, if not all, human beings.
@@jswets5007 I like the quote, and you posted it for a reason, right? I`m just curious as to what was the catalyst?
@@ninjacrumbs The discussions in this video displayed both sides very clearly. In my opinion at least.
@@jswets5007 Ok. So it is just a sound advice reminder. Ain`t nothing wrong with that. I was just really taken with it and realized that that is kryptonite to any fringe faction on any issue.
Do animals have gender? If there sre 257 different genders how many gender pay gaps are there?
This was so good to watch because 2 people with opposing views could discuss this in a rationale manner whithout being abusive or becoming violent with each other or towards the facilitator of the topic. Well done to all involved!
"Piss in your friend's lunchbox" This guy is unintentionally hilarious 😂
Oh no, I think he is very intentional lol
@@casusolivas I’m not convinced he is aware of the secondary (colloquial) meaning of “lunchbox”.
@@mikegray8776 we should ask him
The male elder has some phenomenal arguments. Bravo 👏🏻 👏🏻!
Not really. He thinks science provides truth , when it only provides the best explanation given the data, and he thinks matters that we look at in science always get resolved with this best explanation, however many are left as open questions .
He thinks atheists don't exist , which is just a presupposition because he can't imagine a world without god.
On the gender thing I kind of agree with his conclusions but I doubt his reasoning is anything other than knee jerk.
@a.rogers9358 He definitely makes me rethink/reevaluate a couple of my positions. Guy is based!
The guy that said were “legalizing satanism?” 😂 yeah that was a phenomenal argument 🤣 are you kidding me??!!!
It's your right to pack hershey and get your hershey packed or think you're something you're not. It's also his right to disagree.
@@cobracommander8133 Thank you for noticing! He was civilized but, obviously holds mythical beliefs, i.e., religious.
As i suspected, an actual transperson is far more polite, respectful and human than their so called "allies".
I appreciate that everyone could calmly and curiously express their position, even though they had very different views.
What ever happened to gender being the non medical synonym for sex? How did the early 00s go from that to this?
Postmodernism
Nice argument style. Good job everyone. I agree with the older gentleman, and appreciate is straightforwardness.
It wasn't really heated at all. It was a discussion. I saw no anger. Just people relating their feelings; one better than the other, but even still.
That Indian guy was 💯% spot on
@@Justwonguy maybe you missed the point of the conversation
@@Justwonguy we appear to be on the same side, so I don’t wish to squabble . I agree with you. MAGA
Disagree, evidently 40 years in IT have made him an expert in psychology, biology, sexuality and all the settled science. He’s entitled to his opinions, but that’s about all they are, I happen to think he’s wrong about most of what he says and extremely presumptuous in his assertions about others’ states of mind.
This is the most honest kind and logical trans woman I've ever seen... I respect your choice... And I am glad to call you a woman if you want me to... Very logical..
Respect
If a guy thinks he's Napoleon, that's fine by me. But he has no right to expect me to address him as "Your Imperial Majesty." If a guy thinks he's a woman, that's fine by me. But he has no right to expect me to address him as "she", "her", "ma'am" or anything else of the sort.
with a name like tavuzzi pust i bet you have fun times. i don't expect anyone is going to force you to talk to, or address anyone in any way you don't want to, when was the last time someone did that to you, cos i never even met a trans person (knowingly) let alone had my arm twisted to say "miss", this is the sort of comment that comes from someone who never had any experience of anyone other than your own in group but for some reason people you never met bother you. i bet you want books you never read banned too.
and you had to edit your comment?
@HarryNicholas You have extremely limited knowledge and understanding of this topic and it shows. You only need to look towards Canadian legislation and the issues going on in the US to see what he is talking about. Keep your head in the sand all you want but your closed mind is not going to serve you.
But you'll hurt their feelings!!
You have poor empathy then.
Not playing this game. I agree with the man in the opening. You identify as a lamp post. Fine by me. I don't care. But don't ask me to play pretend with you and worse persecute me for not going along.
Best good faith discussion on this subject I have seen. Well done on all involved.
I am 15 minutes in and we have not talked to the woman once! What is going on?
I think there’s a basic misunderstanding in our mainstream culture. Gender ideology is an ideology not a scientific fact!
Gender identity comes from a school of thought or framework. The ideas come from Gender and Queer Theory.
Just because something is called a theory doesn’t mean it’s an absolute fact. It’s simply a way of describing a phenomenon. It’s ONE way of thinking about sex differences.
Gender ideologues argue that sex differences are constructed by society. While that may be true to some extent, sex differences between men and women are primarily biological.
We can argue to what extent they are socially created vs biologically based but there is objective evidence showing that significant differences are biologically related.
However, gender ideologues either deny biology or see it as a matter of biological structures that can be swapped out through surgery or altered superficially. This is the point of contention right here!
Gender identity proponents don’t give biologically determined differences much credit and INSIST on that their views are correct regarding sex differences.
They don’t typically even want to discuss or hear information that contradicts their beliefs. They often describe it as violence. Words are violence suddenly…weird how neatly that idea works to their advantage.🧐
This is where people diverge into two different camps. Gender ideologues say “since sex differences aren’t biologically significant, you can simply construct or pick your sex” based on what you FEEL like.
However, feeling something is subjective and can’t be quantified or measured scientifically unlike biological markers such as hormones, cellular mechanisms brain structures, lung size, muscle fibers etc. which are different between men and women. These biological factors also result in different behaviors in men vs women.
Subjective experiences are NOT scientifically sound ways of describing sex differences. Regardless, gender ideologues insist that THEIR definitions are objective.
The above is why concepts like gender identity are ideological rather than scientific.
Since gender ideologues present gender ideology as an absolute truth, people in the mainstream may have bought into it.
People also buy into it for reasons of self preservation. It’s easier to simply agree because if you don’t - you might lose your job, be cancelled, intimidated or threatened etc. this fact is a sign that gender ideologues have gone too far and become tyrannical & oppressive.
This needs to stop! Gender ideologues need to SIT DOWN and accept the fact that they don’t have the final say when it comes to sex differences.
Yes, social norms and expectations surely contribute to differences between men and women, but biology is also very real.
Women aren’t going to share womanhood with biological men because we are not the same!
It’s also offensive to deny our differences because it negates women.
I have carried two babies, given birth naturally, breastfed them, have my period every month, deal with female hormones & their effects on my mood and body, I have certain feminine instincts that men don’t have etc.
I might sound dramatic but 99% of mothers would kill to protect their children, the “mama bear” instinct is unique for women. Not saying fathers aren’t protective of their children - only that most women are biologically hyper-vigilant in this respect, maybe because they are physically more vulnerable than men, who knows.
All I’m saying is biological men have nothing to do in my female territory and they will never be welcome!
If you’re a man who FEELS like a woman, that’s your subjective idea of what a woman is, but it doesn’t actually make you a real woman. I will even address you however you want, but that’s on my discretion, that’s because I believe in being polite, kind and civil.
I don’t know what it’s like to be a man and it would be arrogant of me to say that I do.
Men and women show different degrees of femininity and masculinity, that’s fine. Be a feminine man all you want, just don’t equate yourself with a woman, because we are NOT the same!
Insisting that men can be women is disrespectful to women, selfish, dishonest and arrogant. Anyway, I digress.😁
I'm going to use an analogy for women and transwomen. What is the difference between a father and a stepfather?
Well, the biological one. Its why the distinction exists. And yet, there's a legal definition of a father; the legal male guardian of a child. There is a legal process - a transition almost - where a stepfather can adopt a child and become a father.
And then there's the social definition. A stepfather who raises their child for many years, loving, financially, supporting, and respectfully is a father in every meaningful way - except for one; the biological aspect.
But you are basically making the argument that a stepfather regardless of legal distinction, no matter how loving, supporting, or caring he is - will never be as good as the biological father - even if the father is a deadbeat, absentee, sperm-donor-at-best man.
A stepfather who has done everything that a true father would and should, could never FEEL like a father? I don't think that's true. And i don't think that you believe that either.
@@mamo4753 Hi, I don’t think the stepfather vs. biological father argument works in this context.
My main point is that biology matters regarding differences between biological men and women.
Biological parents vs. non-biological parents is a different comparison. We would have to examine how biology influences our relationships with our children.
While there are many stepparents who love their non-biological children deeply, there’s a broad consensus and lots of research showing that maltreatment of kids is lowest among children who live with two biological parents.
For example, a study by Aruna Radhakrishna and colleagues at the University of North Carolina showed that abuse is most common in homes with a stepfather or boyfriend, with 80% of the maltreatment occurring between birth and age 4, 20% between ages 4-6, and 27% between ages 6-8.
There are several studies showing that bringing an unrelated adult male into the home places children at higher risk of abuse.
Of course, that doesn’t mean that every stepfather is abusive! There are many examples of kids who grow up with a stepfather, and they feel very loved, protected, and safe even though he’s not their biological father. I’m sure there are stepparents who love their stepchildren deeply and would do anything to protect them.
@@k.s783 I dont want to be too reductive of your response, but then i have to ask: Do you think its possible for a stepfather to identify as a father?
If you answer no, then you are basically saying that the biological element is the most important component of being a parent.
If you answer yes, then the biological component isn't that important and the distinction between a father and a stepfather relies more on legal and social values.
I think most people would say that yes a stepfather could identify as a father.
I'm struggling to find why people aren't willing to give the same affordances to trans people, even if this father-stepfather analogy breaks down at some point.
@@mamo4753 Even though two men can have different personalities or temperaments they are still more similar than a man and a woman.
I mean, if you are white but identity as Black, does that make you African-American?
Similarly, calling yourself a woman if you’re a biological male doesn’t make you a woman.
There are various ways that males and females present and many psychologists explain gender as differences in temperament rather than as constructions by society. Gender dysphoria is a legitimate & stressful illness and it’s connected to body dysmorphia conditions.
If you identify as a biological dad it doesn’t make you the biological parent. You might be a better parent than the biological father - but you’re still the stepdad. There’s a reason for the distinction in the terms, if fathers and stepfathers were the same thing, then we wouldn’t have the word stepdad to begin with.
Gender ideologues tend to downplay the influence genes have on behavior in men vs women. Aside from the well known influences from hormones, females have 20% fewer dopaminergic neurons than men which influence some forms of behaviors that are innate or predisposed by genes. There are differences in the gene expression in the amygdala, a region implicated in processing emotions.
Anyway, there several genetic differences between men and women aside from observable physical differences.
I don’t really believe in the idea that you can pick an identify. It implies that you can choose your identity much like you would pick out a pair of shoes.
Your identity is your ethnicity, place of birth, language, cultural influences, values your parents raised you with, your religious beliefs or lack thereof.
You don’t pick your place of birth, your family, language or culture, right? These things will shape your identity whether you like them or not. Of course when you’re older you can be more purposeful about your identity but your background will inevitably influence those choices too. In that sense identity is handed to you and not something you actively choose, at least not initially.
Twin studies of identical twins reared apart have shown that even personality traits are influenced by genetics to a larger degree than most would probably like to believe.
I think a major factor in this debate is that gender ideology is informed by the social sciences the other side by natural sciences especially biology & genetics (scientific studies of genes and their effects).
If you haven’t already, spend some time studying sex differences in genetics and you’ll soon realize how incompatible the two disciplines are. This is probably why promoters of gender theory are the number one critics of genetic research since it always challenges their claims rather than confirming them.
I think the only reason gender ideology has become so accepted is because the other side is much harder to understand, at least for the average layperson.
It’s a bummer because they are more interested in maintaining their beliefs than seeking the truth. They are even fighting against funding research they fear will discredit their efforts and call scientists transphobic! Hard sciences are motivated by truth, not by an agenda.
Besides the research is important for understanding why some diseases are more prevalent in males vs females which also ties into the effects of medications on males vs females.
Sure, men and women are similar in many respects. But gender ideologues are driven by an agenda to erase sex differences (initially thinking it will help women’s rights/status in society, gender studies grew out of feminist studies). While scientists are driven by seeking truth even when that truth hurts someone’s feelings.
I really enjoyed this conversation from an intellectual and humanistic point of view. I understand the man's perspective (agree with him in many), also the trans person point of view and experience, a very thoughtful and sensible person. Civil conversation with arguments and humility to expose different points of view and/or experiences. Kudos to both. Also, to you Peter, we need these conversations.