Does Consciousness Extend Beyond Brains? The 2023 Holberg Debate, feat. Seth, Luhrmann, Sheldrake.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ธ.ค. 2023
- Do conscious experiences happen both within and outside the brain, and can science solve the 'hard problem' of consciousness?
At this year's Holberg Debate, Tanya Luhrmann, Anil Seth and Rupert Sheldrake will take on the deep scientific and philosophical mystery of consciousness. The debate will be chaired by David Malone.
The 2023 Holberg Debate will take place on 2 December, at 15:00 CET / 09:00 EST, and will be livestreamed from the University Aula in Bergen.
See our webpage for more information: holbergprize.org/en/2023-holb...
The Holberg Debate is an annual event organized by the Holberg Prize.
See previous instalments here: holbergprize.org/en/en/holber... . - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
"True consciousness is achieved when the act of causing harm, even to the smallest creature, pains you."
tell that to pro-ab0rts and Planned Parenthood
It may be true, but history is more inclined to show that the opposite is the path more travelled... ever since our ancestors picked up a jawbone. There will be some that would use such a thing for personal gain, but true consciousness and everything within is without a doubt not a journey for the faint of heart. Try astral, and wind the window down... it's freaky. ✌
Nice metric for AI. I suppose there are holes in the idea, but I like it.
Really! so all those billins of microorganisms you kill daily pain you so much your still alive. You are further from consciousness than any being.
“Wisdom tells me I am nothing. Love tells me I am everything. Between the two my life flows” - Nisargadatta Maharaj
❤
one of my favourite quotes
I never heard that one, that's a great quote.
it is all a matter of how far they are apart? The flow I mean, slow or fast.
that's a lie, because both the wise and fool die
Even though it's a debate I find it really relaxing which seems counter intuitive to what I'd expect from a debate. Goes to show how todays program always makes us think people have to be loud and yell at each other. Thank goodness we can hear everyone speak and find each point of view interesting enough to give it some air to ponder.
What most people call debates are actually arguments. Arguments are about protecting positions where debates are intended to find common ground.
The purpose of argument is not to win but to learn. Some learn this early. Some never learn it at all.
@@MusicPLUSBusiness So true I wish I'd explored debating whilst in school As the arts are often compartmentalized to one side of the school where I was. But I still found talking to the physics students fascinating. Probably because now I know there's a lot more connection. Sound waves, math, geometry have a lot more in common than I realized back then.
@@aubreylegendre8174 Ok. But the culture that values learning above winning is a better culture than one that values winning over learning. In the latter, people present all kinds of misconduct - ad hominem attacks, shouting people down, false equivalence, and a wide range of biases. The former culture becomes aware of these problems and works to identify and correct them. It does not excuse these errors as "different strokes for different folks." In this way, learning persists through humility and wisdom. By contrast, triumphalism in argument leads to arrogance and self-aggrandizement. Finally, learning contains the lessons of winning and failing, but the desire to win excludes the lessons taught by failure. For all these reasons, the desire for learning is better that the desire for winning. Those 500 people who are screaming at each other are engaged in a activity that is less effective than the people who humbly desire to learn.
@@MusicPLUSBusiness debates are every bit about defending a position, not about finding common ground. that said, they aren't fighting, and the only debates we see today, political debates, aren't really debates
It's always a good day when Rupert Sheldrake pops up in your playlist
Me too his voice is a meditation :)
Hes the only one up there on the right track imo
@@skyedge3407 how so? he doesn't have any evidence for the things he says
The problem with using anesthesia as evidence of oblivion, is that there is no way to rule out the possibility of a rich experience during anesthesia that is not stored in the memory of the brain. It could be that anesthesia shuts off biological memory, such that when one comes to it seems as if there was only oblivion. Imagine a computer running but nothing gets saved, the computer will by definition not recognize any of the states it was in when the memory was shut off, but it was still running.
I agree and thought his response on this question was very unscientific- and yet no one debated the point
That one might be conscious when anesthetized is as difficult to know as
whether anyone but one's self is conscious.
@@REDPUMPERNICKEL Exactly - both are subjective - and I use that word carefully- so impossible for a system to reliably assess itself - because the act of assessment changes the system. Besides we know that we “lose” consciousness every night - what does it mean to lose consciousness? It means that although we are conscious of some aspects of our existence, like heart and liver etc, we are not aware of our existence. Awareness of existence is not needed for existence. People say they can feel what deep sleep is like as opposed to anaesthesia - but I don’t believe that. It’s a projection. Both are states of non-existence. You might call that death- and that we die every night, and then finally we stop waking up. But all we are doing is returning to the darkness from where we sprang.
We were obviously 'there' (before we were born) before we were 'here' (in a physical body)
...... so what's there to be scared of - absolutely nothing.
Everything is nothing & nothing is everything!
In 'living' we die
And in 'dying' - we live!
As above so below
“How things seem is not a good explanation of how things are”
it depends
it depends is not a good explanation@@PazLeBon
@@raystone1105 it isnt the explanation, thats kinda the point isn't it
it's actually pretty good, but at least is on the path toward truth. on the other hand, relying on dreams, fantasies, and drug induced delusions is a pretty sure way of getting absolutely terrible explanations.
The second speaker just waffled on about how things seem to superstitious people.
The mind can deceive you. Even a modicum of caution should prevent someone from assuming these religious experiences are real. Funny how such experiences overwhelmingly map to the religion one is exposed to.
A year ago I went 5 times. to a pain management clinic for my multiple sclerosis’ pain and depression. I was given ketamine for 5 sessions. It was unfortunately a temporary success for pain and depression but I had the most worthwhile spiritual experience! I was comforted to understand the various dimensions of life and consciousness.
Reproduction is a sin
I'd love to hear your experience with spiritual healing, Christian Science, L Mehl Madrona MD, etc...
would you consider posting g some of the highlights of that experience ?
Vitamin D - investigate. Omega 3s DHA/EPA - investigate. Mg--> DNA repair - investigate.
@@norsangkelsang7939 The correct term is "research"
I had dreams of being in a building or outside of one, and in my mind I am familiar with interior and what is on each floor, and even behind the building, and around the corner down the street. I have visual recall of these aspects and details of the environment. I also know the people, their names and remember what we talked about two or three days ago, but when I wake up, I have no idea of who and where I was. In the dream, I knew specifics like room #s, and locker key combinations, and I also know if I have 2 minutes or 10 minutes to get where I am going and I feel the urgency to get there. When I wake up, just 2 seconds later, there is no reference for anything I was just deeply involved in. I try to recall the place, people and details, but nothing. I think I am living a different life in my sleep. I feel that I am the same person in the dream, but recalling memories from a different life. When I am thinking in the dream, the relevant ideas and information to the present moment or circumstance are fresh and readily available in memory, as if I am accessing an established way of thinking and believing, I am not familiar with when I awaken.
brilliantly stated
I think the phrase "state dependent" is germane to your comment
although "mode dependent" might be a more accurate way to say it.
Differences in the awake mode being-conscious-process and
the sleep mode being-conscious-process (i.e. dreaming)
have been discovered by researchers.
Speculatively speaking,
perhaps memories 'captured' while these different processes run,
have something subtly different in their neural discharge timing patterns thereby
rendering them inaccessible to any other mode of being conscious,
something analogous to the radio spectrum, channels and tuning.
In retrospect, rather than "radio spectrum, channels and tuning",
the concept of 'resonance' may have been the better analogy.
This one minute video illustrates the resonance concept very clearly...
th-cam.com/users/shortsPagl1zg0j4A
I *have* noticed several themes currently, among my fairly rare dreams.
For 50 years I spent almost every winter weekend skiing down hills or mountains.
One of my dream themes involves skiing (understandably, eh).
The question I have is,
why do my skiing dreams not all take place on perfect powder snow
under perfect lighting conditions, after all, they are my dreams?
Or is it that my unconscious brain processes simply
don't, or can't, give a fig about my preferences?
(Which would very much reflect the world in general
(except in socialist leaning democracies, eh
(it is just good luck I live in one))).
Psychic abilities ~ aka visions so continue exploring and you may end up having a message for someone or saving some one s life or confirming something for yourself or someone else _ namaste
@@Soma_3046
"Parallel worlds" is most likely a phrase synonymous with 'imagination'.
tHANK YOU PHENOMENICAL WEBINAR!
"Character IS destiny," Aristotle. E.g. the play "Oedipus Rex" that he so admired as exemplifying that observation.
1:25:28 - If it turns out that space-time is a brain made UI the inside-outside distinction might be a lot more complicated and at that point you'd need to consider more that a conscious being is, with Karl Friston's theory, a bundle of Markov blanketed sectors where what we experience as 'us' is a particularly Markov bundle that distinguishes our subjectivity from our experience of the outside / objective world, but the question is whether that Markov blanket exists within us and whether we're ultimately rendering (ourselves) something really complicated into the appearance of Baryonic matter.
Great to hear Prof. Luhrmann echo my own experiences that (millions of) others have had. That the voices of spirit are short and positive.
Obviously. Hence vibes, animal sensing, presence in and beyond dreams, imagination projecting into space and time etc.
I wish there was a debate with consciousness and Dementia…..
Me too. A tough, cruel illness to watch a person lose all their life's work of memories. Coconut oil seems to help with the clock drawing test. Recent research in Aust pointing to higher clusters in areas prone to blue/green algae - stagnet dead water. More side effects of unhealthy eco systems perhaps? Not a scientist.
They still know that they am. They just don't know WHO they am.
Dimensionia. They get a window into another dimension and we think they are going crazy.
What would the debate proposition in that debate?
@@highvalence7649 it might be on 'if Dementia patients have consciousness', which in my opinion they do, but in full alzheimers its a bit more debatable, as they literally stop thinking, knowing who they are, and much else
Silmutaneous lives and or bi location needs to be discussed. Also along with this Dream Time and visiting other timelines and potential futures.
This discussion is based on astrophysics. Having the ability to tap into your consciousness is not tapping into your memories. As mankind is not capable of controlling the subconscious mind the memories stored in the brain is not chronological. Memory is association based. Even the subconscious mind associates' memories to store them more accurately. To astro project is to tap into the subconscious mind while conscious. At this point in reality, you are complete energy. Which allows you to travel to where energy travels. Energy is not binding to time and space. Even time itself is not binding to reality and space. However, energy is both in the past and currently lol in the present. There is no future. Tomorrow has not happened. No energy has made it there yet.
You give the impression that you conceive of energy as something like a ghost.
Energy is not at all like that.
Energy is simply the way we think about material behavior.
@@rafaelgonzalez4175
@@rafaelgonzalez4175 mmm yummy word salad
I experience a shift in conscientiousness when I became emotional about an answer to a question I needed and the person I needed to ask physically emerged in my surrounding, even though he was in a different state, after I experienced that, I called him and I asked him if he gave me the answer to the question I was thinking about when we were together, in person, and he hesitated before saying no, so I didn't bring up the experience I just encountered but later in that day I wondered why he hesitated before answering the question, maybe he also had an experience in that moment but even if he did I don't think he would have excepted it because he practice ministry
Consciousness originated before matter. Brain filters info for survival purposes. Mind universal. Brain recieves input, thinking it originates thought, whereas it recieves& interprets. Mind not in brain but vice versa. Latter like bucket. Former like sea. Mind exists before & beyond brain. Plants live react move eat grow but no brain. Yet has awareness of sunlight, joy, stress.
This was my first experience of Luhrman, and I much appreciated her summary that the essence of consciousness lies in our relationship with external 'others', which seems to fit well with Sheldrake's emphasis on the interconnectedness of self-organising systems and also Anil's refutation of the idea the brain is 'merely' an information-processing system. However, I found the discussion on information-processing moved on a bit too quickly and dismissively; there is much explanatory power in Karl Friston's work that seems to me to have great value, even though I agree that information processing is not the whole story.
Malone did a fabulous job of holding the space for a creative tension in the debate, and it was a pleasure to experience his style of inquiry again (I hope he will be making another of his wonderful films soon). My own curiosity has settled recently on the related and emerging area of inquiry labeled as "enactive cognition" and it would be wonderful to see a future debate bringing these ideas into tension with those of enactivists like Di Paolo and Thompson, plus phenomenological insights from the likes of Maclaren and Callard.
I share Anil's frustration with Silicon Valley's pursuit of technology such as AI regardless of the ethics, also seemingly with scant regard for the dangers of their move-fast-and-break-things approach. On a positive note, my limited exposure to the AI community at least comforts me that they are an extremely curious and deep-thinking community. The problem, it seems to me, is the lack of transparency on the part of tech firms that don't share their research data with public academics; more patient science is needed to inform the work of these clever engineers and developers. My fear is not of the technology so much as its financial backers, and the profit- and power-oriented goals that most tech leaders are pursuing. For all the early talk of not wanting to repeat the mistakes of social media platforms, some vocal segments of AI culture seem to have confabulated their way towards justifying any innovation on the grounds of its 'great potential' for humanity - here we go again...
Leave your fears behind a d embrace the tech and the future or you can live somewhere where you can relax without the pressure
@@nycgweed That reads very much like an AI hallucinatory response prior to human editing. Emotions are the essence of being human, not something to be rid of.
Side note: for anyone reading this not aware of AI "hallucination" it is a well-documented phenomenon of the current so-called "transformer" type of AI such as ChatGPT. Essentially, an AI is a predictive text-based auto-responder, and so when it responds to a question on which it's learning data has limited or no information, it "hallucinates" or in other words makes things up rather than responding "I don't know the answer to that". In other words, it will attempt a prediction regardless of predictive accuracy because it is a machine and has no understanding of the things it is responding about.
There's a kind of "encounter in the liminal zone" - have a look for the work concerning dreams done by Henry Reed from Atlantic University and for writings by Edgar Cayce, too.
@@drdolittle1085 Many thanks for those recommendations, I look forward to reading some of their work. I've been studying Jung's work for a long time, and that of people like Hillman, Corbin and Donaldson around the imaginal mind - and more recent academics like Vervaeke (on wisdom and types of knowing). The experience of liminal 'space' is indeed a fascinating phenomenon.
Indeed, most worrisome,
fierce grip of the meme, 'profit uber alles'.
Too many depraved slurpers to
Mammon's jizm utterly addicted.
These,discussions are crucial ! As even tthough it is taught by academia the mind is simply a machine that can be quantified the true state of science reveals thought is( at this time) a unquantifiable manifestation.
The only one who had certain experiences is Rupert Sheldrake and talks differently. Anil Seth talks nonsense, he doesn't believe that an energy in us will remain to exist when the body dies, while SCIENTISTS have already in 1967 proven that this energy really exist. It's measurable and even visual with right electronic devices. It's all about energies and frequencies. The Furhmann woman talks more religious, so totally on the wrong track about this subject.
@@ExperiencedGhost
To exactly what are you referring when you speak of energy?
@@REDPUMPERNICKEL What religious people call the "soul", scientists call that "consciousness", someone else might call that the "chi" or "lifeforce". All names for the same energy. It's not 110 volts. It's not that kind of energy. Not even that electromagnetic field that is generated when we move, do sport.
When we speak of an energy, then it has a frequency. No matter what kind of energy.
That energy is measurable with an electronic device, to know its frequency. What scientist know these days is not talked about in general, you need to look that up for yourself. So, that energy in our body is proven by many scientist. The many experiments of different kind about that "energy" in our body that has been conducted for decades, show/proof at least one thing: it exist.
I've had since I was a child many experiences of what people call paranormal and supernatural. An apparition is that same energy that we all have in our body. A body cannot function without. The consciousness, memories and emotions are in that energy. A body would become instantly a pile of fles/blood/body if that energy would be out of the body. The body will not move at all. For example when someone has an out-of-body experience.
I'm not even religious. That energy is scientific, not the twilight zone of religion.
Where has my answer to Redpumpernickel request gone?
@@ExperiencedGhost
Just so you know, your answer has not appeared on my screen either.
I have also been experiencing this same 'disappearing comment' problem lately.
All my comments are present in my TH-cam archive but do not show up in the threads where they were made.
Curious.
Is TH-cam overwhelmed with data or their censoring algorithms run amok or have they hit some mysterious incompetence level that's starting to degrade the system?
I don't know.
Hope they can fix it.
Loved your podcast…very enlightening! Thank you SO much. God bless you, and more power to you!
The gods are human inventions.
1:27:34 “people talk differently”
That sentence really aligns with me.
I'm reading Being You, and have added Sheldrake and Lurhman to my reading list as well. Just wanted to stop by to say how much I loved this video, that I have it on repeat. I feel so many people would benefit from hearing more about the areas where these three perspectives, come close to meeting or overlapping. Please do more!
I was drawn to this debate specifically because 13 years ago it was discovered that I was having seizures. After unsuccessfully trialing 13 anti-epileptic drugs, I had my entire right temporal lobe removed. I was 51 years old. The world is no longer what I knew it to be, leading to much questioning of all reality. My experience of living on this planet is now ENTIRELY different...
It was rather horrifying to hear the statement that brain is overrated! I wish I'd understood and valued my brain more than I did. That being said, while my ability to function as I once did has been significantly compromised, I don't believe the brain surgery has reduced my "consciousness". In fact, I feel that I am more conscious and aware! Myself, my thoughts, functioning, light, sound, smells, sensations, the energies from outside sources, nuances, and my surroundings tend to be entirely overwhelming. I often feel TOO conscious...
That being said, I am intrigued by the research and depth of thought and ideas presented here. I too will continue to explore brain function, consciousness, etc. from my own experience and perspective. Thank you for sharing this debate!
“The brain is overrated”…
{don't blame you if you don't want to read all this, I was reading your comment about the guy saying that the brain is overrated, and just after I read your comment about it, he said it. I just kinda' got lost in a stream of thought}
Yes. I can very much relate with your disdain for this remark. It is a very ungrateful sounding comment, coming from a man who has a healthy brain, and is functioning at a high level. With the experiences that I have had, I don't know if I should think this man is grossly pontificating, and arrogant, or if I should feel bad for him, because he doesn't see how precious and fortunate he is.
About thirty-five years ago, the young, healthy brain that I had been blessed with, I shamefully and regretfully took for granted. My frontal lobe was severely damaged in a foolish accident. My entire personality changed, drastically. The following decade, in an attempt to flee from the trauma, I dosed myself, in very short intervals, with moderate, to extremely high doses of various psychedelic chemicals. (those years could be an interesting psychological study)
I don't think the trips did any permeant damage, but the lifestyle I was living, had me very unaware of my health. At the end of that decade, My co-workers saw me having a seizure, as I was dozing off in the work van.
I believe that I had been having them for quite a number of years, before the first one that was observed by others. Nearly all the seizures I had, were when I was just falling asleep. So, almost every time it happened, I was alone, and in bed. Once I knew I was having them, I realized that I was getting these heavy bite marks on my tongue. In hindsight, I was waking up with a swollen tongue, very often, for years.
My brain, my mind, my personality, my perspective, the way I handle relationships, and countless other things, have changed for me, at a very deep level, many times, over the decades. It feels like I have been a number of different people, at various points in my life.
But, like you expressed, my consciousness, has been the same. I have always had the same 'ME Voice', throughout all these severe changes to my thinking, and my perception. The spark, or light, of inner-self, is the same 'ME', that has always been. For better or worse, not knowing what you got 'till it's gone, and having the utmost respect, fascination, and love for the human mind, now that I have taken the road that I chose, I am glad that I can see how precious our brains are.
With all of that to reflect on, I am absolutely certain that when the time comes to leave this body and brain behind, we will all still experience that thing that happens when we try to meditate, or that thing that happens when we're on a long walk, and we're not really thinking. It doesn't seem to be quite a thought, and it's not a dream. It's just this spark of self, that is always with us, and has always been with us, and it is us, forever, I think.
You two are beautiful warriors in this journey we're all in, whether it's bummer spontaneous monkey typewriter petri dish or if it's universal nonlocal consciousness panpsychism woo.
Very lively debate and a very diverse field of study. I spent a few years of my life trying to quantify consciousness for the purposes of determining how much anaesthetic should be given to a patient in order to safely keep them unconscious. This debate touched on this subject and a few other related subjects. Anil Seth very skillfully side stepped how consciousness originates and assumed that consciousness only resides within the physical confines of the human brain (Tanya Luhrmann was a little more philosophical about this). Instead they both focused on the physical aspects of consciousness, which are all that any scientist can measure. This is a totally rational way to think, based on the scant information we currently poses on this topic. These physical aspects, give us absolutely no clues as to the nature of human consciousness and its origins. Debates of this kind tend to become very philosophical and go around in circles as one is left to speculate because of the fundamental lack of information. Rupert Sheldrake seemed to me to be a lot more open minded on whether consciousness can extend outside of the human brain and even though he's considered as something of a maverick and heretic by many of his (biologically minded) peers, I like his open mindedness and some of his ideas, which leaves the door open for new ideas.
Work on machine consciousness has been progressing for many years. There are various schools of thought on how to give machines self awareness. The problem has been that the predominant school of thought was that consciousness would be achieved by increasing the complexity of the artificial neural networks used to build AI. But with gigantic leaps in the computing power of these artificial neural networks, self awareness akin to human consciousness has not been achieved. So most probably, brain complexity is not the origin of human consciousness.
The work of Physicist Roger Penrose and Neuroscientist Stuart Hameroff on human consciousness adds a quantum component to the workings of the human brain, by way of the nano-tubules found within brain cells. This seems to suggest that consciousness could originate from quantum interactions within brain cells. Quantum entanglement of subatomic particles has shown us that space-time is non-local. If this hypothesis of consciousness holds true, it could also lead us to the conclusion that consciousness can reside outside of the human brain. Again, this is hypothetical.
There are many other schools of thought on this issue. One hypothesis pointed to by string theory is that we could be living inside a black hole, in which case we could be living inside a 2D hologram which feels and looks like a 3D universe. The interesting thing about holograms is that each element which makes up the hologram contains all of the information contained in the entire hologram. If that's the case then our consciousness might be contained in the tiniest elements which make up this universe ......... pure speculation, but again, we're in the realms of pure philosophy here.
The simulation hypothesis is another, where we could be living inside a huge computer simulation, in which case non of what we experience is real and that anything is possible within the bounds of the computer simulation.
Or, we could all be parts of some massive universal consciousness which connects everything and could mean that our consciousness does not reside within our physical brain. Such a theory of mind could also tie in with emerging physics hypotheses of consciousness and information theory, where information itself has mass and therefore energy, and that consciousness could be more fundamental than either energy or matter. Again hypothetical, but possibly mathematically provable ? or disprovable .....
The questions these scientists and others are asking are as fundamental as the questions about creation of the universe and life itself. These are the deep questions we have asked for thousands of years, and could take thousands more years to truly answer, if at all..... They will not be answered by biologists. The answers will come by integrating fields such as physics, mathematics, biology and chemistry. Each science describes one small piece of the puzzle.
We’re is Jordan Person 10:31
Reproduction is a sin
I'm thinking of consciousness of refined to the individual's brain, but maybe capable of emitting and receiving information with a quantum-level method, i.e. entanglement.
Just like a radio which does not exist 'outside' the radio itself, but emitting and receiving radio waves.
I NEVER STAY OUT AND ALWAYS BECOME CONSCIOUS FOR A FEW SECONDS DURING SURGERY....WIERD.....AND I GET A BONER AS WELL..LOL SO GOOD DREAM I GUESS. AND WHEN ON ACID WHICH ONLY HAPPENED A FEW TIMES I CAN DO PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE THNGS. FOR EXAMPLE I FLIPPED A CIGARETTE PACKAGE IN THE AIR AND LANDED IT ON THE SMALL EDGE OVER 30 TIMES IN A ROW.
Nice
On order for me to see, touch, and feel this cup of tea in front of me requires a lot of quantum entanglement
Hm....but could you prove to us that the cup of tea exists in our realities without our observation of that cup of tea?
I wish Norman Doidge or another expert on brain plasticity would have been part of the panel discussion. I think it would have changed the trajectory of the discussion in a very interesting way.
Thanks so much. I found this fascinating. It makes me think about quantum entanglement.
I am fascinated by quantum entanglement as well. Politely subscribed to you in support!
Quantum entanglement suggests we are living in The Matrix.
Photons and electrons separated still interact with each other.
@@REDPUMPERNICKEL your quote "Quantum entanglement suggests we are living in The Matrix." My comment: I experienced something that makes the matrix real to me. When a part of my arm went through the arm rest of a couch, and I mean a couch from the 70's where the wood inside is thick and is made of real wood. I pulled it out and it was solid again.
@@ExperiencedGhost
I have been conscious of hallucinations indistinguishable from what I am usually conscious of with the exception that I could move my hand through them.
Most often these hallucinations occur after swallowing LSD but occasionally I experience a vivid dream that fools me completely (because the critical thinking ability is much disabled during the dreaming mode of being conscious).
Because I have a pretty good understanding of how neurons and synapses work, it never occurs to me that I am in a matrix other than the one which is my brain.
If quantum entanglement is an actual fact and scientists are not being fooled by something hiding in left field,
then there may still be explanations awaiting discovery that have nothing to do with a matrix.
Still, if I am in a matrix and am a virtual person, an NPC, then I would be concerned that a power glitch might end me.
But if that should happen I wouldn't know it so no different from dying conscious in the top non matrix level.
lol
I visualize this as the ability to tap into a river of light and energy from our universes creation like a stream, being able to jump like a small fish, from person to person, and forward and backward in time.
I saw this in a vision. Except rather than jumping like a fish....a life is more like a rivulet that splits from the main stream and flows alone for a time, before rejoining the main stream.
ya bud it takes many forms , some scare the hell out of me, i have been found levitating by my brother.
@@davidmccue3591
Reproduction is a sin
Consciousness runs off an electrical charge....
TOTALLY AGREE, I USED TO WEAR AND ELECTRICAL WATCH WITH AN ELECTRICAL DISPLAY, WHEN I WAS PARTYING HARD IT WOULD ACTUALLY FLASH.....LOL
@@Miodrag.Vukomanovic
Short answer: yes, of course it does. Even unicellular organisms have some modicum of consciousness to them. The more complex the organism's biological structure, the more complex the degree of conscious expression in the material.
note that only expression requires biologic complexity. there is no way to tell how much subjectivity is being experiened by anything, or if it is at all.
It is extremely important to ask what general anasthesia and surgery do to the nature of consciousness in the body. There is a definite effect that causes people who've had surgery to be extremely objective, even when they dont want to be so objective
Should i get some surgery to experience it?
The argument would be that consciousness is a physical attribute, not a spiritual one.
@@dawud7791 every thing is physical, even if consciousness exists without the body, its still a physical phenomenon. Do we call the wind or radio waves or light waves spiritual?
@@curtis-dj5bp I don’t know how to explain wind, or radio waves or photons, aside from energy.
I don’t think they would be considered physical, even though they can cause a physical experience, And be measured.
Interesting, never thought about it.
I was refereing to the physical tangible body vs. consciousness, which to my thought would be more like elements you mentioned, but impossible to measure.
@@curtis-dj5bp "its still a physical phenomenon." -- That is very doubtful. You do not understand what consciousness is.
I was comatose following a motorcycle accident in 1985 I was diagnosed as being comatose following a motorcycle accident. That is how I appeared to the medical staff anyway. However I was very busy at the time with some intense activities. I was floating in a black void like being in a womb not like outer space. It was very comforting and I still recollect every emotion I felt and everything I saw while I was "gone". I spontaneously returned while the doctors where rounding and I heard them speaking with the nurse and my wife. They said there had been no change with sadness in their voices. I however felt 3 things in rapid succession even though I had broken my pelvis, neck, right clavicle, upper arm both sides and left leg. 1) So disappointed in having to come back 2) Why is everyone so worried about me. I'll be fine 3) I know something you all don't and it's fantastic. Four months later my wife died in childbirth. Make of my story what you will.
Wow, DW, what a phenomenal story! Perhaps God wanted to show you where your wife was headed to reassure you that she truly was going to a better place and to let you know what to expect once you reunite in the afterlife.😇😇
@@daynagraves7533 It's remarkable you said that. I am also a nurse at the time working at a southern California medical center which is a Catholic hospital as well; After I got discharged my wife was admitted to high risk pregnancy floor. The Nun's rounded every evening this time while I was visiting her with our other child who was two and a half. My wife implored me to retell the story to the Nun which I did. The nun looked at me and said "You received a hug from God, he was showing you the peace we have waiting for us when we die". We were very concerned our gestating baby would not survive this event. She got better for a short time and came home but relapsed and was readmitted 4 months later. She died on a Sunday morning. My daughter was taken by emergency C section weighing only one kilo and survived. She followed in my footsteps and is now a practicing nurse. Even went to the same school. Her mother is in a good place and I know she watches over her. Thank you for your kindness.
Thanks for sharing your story. I find the fact that many people relate of "having to come back" even when you didn't want to very distressing.
Same with me. While 'out' and looking back at my body, I didn't want to return to it.
Added to this is the fact the the growing proof that intuitive decisions are often much better, than purely rational ones. And intuition might include 'knowing' or sensing things beyond the brain, or what the material senses can observe.
I wished I head been there!!!! Superb!!!!
MC-Theory of everything will explain everything from conscious level and unites everything small and large in our Universe and consciousness
Thank you Bergen/Holberg Prize, Seth, Luhrman & Sheldrake, for this excellent and fascinating discussion; that for me among other things, serves to confirm Thomas Berry's 7th principle for a functional cosmology ie; 'The human is that being in whom the universe activates, reflects upon, and celebrates itself in conscious self awareness'.
The question I have is: and how does that definition not apply to other living things? Can we be sure those other organisms don’t do that in their own way? Does the evidence need to satisfy human criteria for self-awareness? How long have humans been here compared to fungi? How do fungi interact with their environment, solve problems, seek and allocate resources, etc. Do you see the species-centric assumptions in that definition?
Interesting points you raise here about being 'species-centric'. What we can be sure of is that the human is the only species we know of that deliberately reflects upon and celebrates the universe using story, ceremony and ritual. One needs to read all 12 of Thomas Berry's principles to realize that his overall cosmology is not 'species-centric'. Principle 12 for example refers to 'our immediate need to assist in activating the inter-communion of all the living and non living components of the Earth community'.. @@Kormac80
Berry's principle #7 could be loosely interpreted as being 'species centric' in that as far as we know, it is only the human that deliberately reflects upon and celebrates the universe using story, ceremony and ritual. However, one would need to consider all 12 of Berry's principles to realize that his overall cosmology is not 'species centric'; on the contrary, it strongly advocates the inter-communion of all the living and non living components of the Earth's community. @@Kormac80
@@Kormac80 I think it's just self awareness, just not many other animals are self aware, but it would hold true for a crow perhaps, and definitely AI when it becomes self aware.
@@CorTec Self-aware on whose terms? Ours? If you aren't familiar with the work of Stephen Buhner I'd recommend starting with The Secret Teachings of Plants. Also, consider the work of Marko Pogacnik who writes about Nature Spirits. I've also investigated Shamanism deeply, via my own plant medicine work, and reading the memoirs of Shaman and the academic take via Michael Winkelman. The upshot of it all is it's very easy in this culture to have a human-centric bias. But to assume other living beings lack self-awareness is questionable. Black Elk speaks is another useful resource to understand the wisdom of nature as it perceives us, which is a form of self-awareness.
I genuinely believe that this subject cannot be fully investigated without seeing the problem from alternate angles.
So - in the way that neurologists mapped functions within areas of the brain by studying brain damaged individuals than then lose very specific abilities based on the area that was damaged. It was very surprising to see that things we take for granted as part of the human experience that you wouldn't realise had a specific area for - such as face recognition, seeing edges - even detecting movement changes within a scene (if you lose this ability and you're at a train station, the train would just 'appear', you wouldn't see it pull into the station).
Also, in a similar way that the structure of DNA was discovered by shining X-Rays through it and observing the shadow - what I'm trying to say, is that, by altering your consciousness, it could cast a 'shadow' of the shape and workings of it. Therefore, drugs that affect consciousness, especially psychedelics - would make a huge impact in learning about the workings of the self, the ego and consciousness and awareness. Designing specific drugs for altering the consciousness in specific ways could be used for investigative purposes.
If you're aware of Alexander Shulgin and his books - 'PIHKAL' and 'TIHKAL' (amazing story and person) over the course of 20-30 years, he *legally* invented thousands of new psychedelic drugs and tested them all on himself.
In support of this approach, I can say that anyone who has experienced the true 'mystical' or an extreme result from a psychedelic experience have experienced states that defy words and logic. We are not seeing the universe as it truly is, we have only evolved to cope with the model we are given. But there is so much more going on than we will ever be aware of. If you have experienced true 'ego death' - having your sense of self completely dissolved.
You don't even need drugs. Long term meditation/Buddhists strive for those moments. You become one with everything and the walls or the bubble that 'you' live inside, disappears. The psychedelic experience is very similar to a deep meditative state.
Great train of thought! But it is not true that Alexander Shulgin created 'thousands' of new psychedelic drugs.
Thought Is part of the early programming. A rehearsal of commands relating to YOU - ( singularily) as the subject. These tracks or commands as the panelist suggests, is the early programs laid down in early childhood that the theta brained child absorbs in trance as a fact or suggestion to follow in life. Like “ what should I wear”, as if it were the outmost of importance.
Like the yogis say -“ we are the dreaming ( current action or verbing) of the dream.
I went under general anesthesia for surgery, my experience didn't stop. one moment I'm on the operating table, the next I'm on the beach in China at night time watching the waves. It was very peaceful, but I didn't disappear. Maybe some people just don't remember what they do under anesthesia
Opium does that.
This is true, it is not anesthesia itself, it is deepness of anesthesia. I am anesthesiologist and I experienced many patients telling me what they had dreamed during anesthesia. Anesthetics like Morphine or Ketamine produce halucinations. It is possible to put body narrow to death with anesthetics and then thgere is total black out. But this is not the aim of anesthesia.
Not me, I started counting back from ten, got as far as nine and then I was back in the ward hours later with no sense of time passing. I was one place and then I was somewhere else, it was weird.
@@moriahgamesdev Good anesthesia.
you can remember with practice, its because the memory can seem like a glitch so its discarded like a dream memory but yeah u must be a natural :)
Many years ago i had access to pure medical grade K and we studied its effects in some depth, we kinda found that my best friend has a great memory and would remember 90% of the time id have a clearer recall but only remembered 50% the time due to my disorganized memory but you find over time you are able to remember more easily, taking too much can give you amnesia tho!
its not a guarenteed effect like hitting a switch but it enables you to use your mind in ways that might otherwise require a vow of silence and lifetime of meditation to reach and unlock its kinda like a shortcut..
Look into the "cia gateway method" its not hallucination i can assure you as multiple people are able to travel together and i was doing this kind of projecting with my friend 15 years before I found out it was a known possibility, i found out n was like omg they know we have powers and hide it from us instead of teaching us to be self aware we are conditioned into obedience its disgusting..
Its as if theres a place we can go but theres many methods to reach it some convenient others heavily taxing like going to LA by luxury car, walking, or using your front teeth to drag urself along the road lol many routes to the same ends..
i recommend K personally and most importantly it must be clean pure or cut with inactives and pharma grade genuine stuff tho the RCs and methoxetamine arent the same at all and any weird extra additives will increase your chance of hallucination and loss of control..
Robitussin dxm actually is an option but heavily taxing on the body and long after effects its really for emergency exit of dimensions only as it cannot be used frequent enough for research or recreation.. The shamans and old communities know, cia knows, i expect the vatican secret archives and all the knowledge lost during the cruscades, witch hunts and all the other atrocities attempting to hide our true power from us would likely cover much of these topics but obviously those in power tried to wipe them all out and burn any records so we are left with a quite badly broken record of history and things considered heretical ✌❤️
I find that applications for listening to music and turning into text of the various characters is a good tool for the wavelength that breaking down of verbal communication to text messages and mathematical placement of numbers to to the vibration is great tools for the wavelength dimensional placement has similar effects to understand the difference between each one the resonances of the universe itself is a Tallow of vibrations and massive amounts of magnetic flowing fields and in between each one is different pulses of a single spacescape
I feel like the question of 'How many different kinds of Fourier transforms can consciousness go through?' is big. Dreams seems to be splitting self into multiplicity and environment, a particular (Scottish I believe) TH-camr by the name of AdeptusPsychonautica actually did a month-long DMT test, was able to approach DMT breakthrough slowly, and got to watch himself decompile into multiplicity. If anyone can confirm that this is a common thing with DMT we might be able to sort out how DMT might cause the splitting of subpersonalities into autonomous agents and what kinds of frictions this works out (ie. why we dream) in a much more precise way.
"don't build things just because we think we can" yes i totally agree with Anil Seth here! (and "tech bros" perfect!)
A segment from 'Saved by the Light of the Buddha Within'...
My new understandings of what many call 'God -The Holy Spirit' - resulting from some of the extraordinary ongoing after-effects relating to my NDE...
Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what some scientists are now referring to as the unified field of consciousnesses. In other words, it’s the essence of all existence and non-existence - the ultimate creative force behind planets, stars, nebulae, people, animals, trees, fish, birds, and all phenomena, manifest or latent. All matter and intelligence are simply waves or ripples manifesting to and from this core source. Consciousness (enlightenment) is itself the actual creator of everything that exists now, ever existed in the past, or will exist in the future - right down to the minutest particles of dust - each being an individual ripple or wave.
The big difference between chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and most other conventional prayers is that instead of depending on a ‘middleman’ to connect us to our state of inner enlightenment, we’re able to do it ourselves. That’s because chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo allows us to tap directly into our enlightened state by way of this self-produced sound vibration. ‘Who or What Is God?’ If we compare the concept of God being a separate entity that is forever watching down on us, to the teachings of Nichiren, it makes more sense to me that the true omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence of what most people perceive to be God, is the fantastic state of enlightenment that exists within each of us. Some say that God is an entity that’s beyond physical matter - I think that the vast amount of information continuously being conveyed via electromagnetic waves in today’s world gives us proof of how an invisible state of God could indeed exist.
For example, it’s now widely known that specific data relayed by way of electromagnetic waves has the potential to help bring about extraordinary and powerful effects - including an instant global awareness of something or a mass emotional reaction. It’s also common knowledge that these invisible waves can easily be used to detonate a bomb or to enable NASA to control the movements of a robot as far away as the Moon or Mars - none of which is possible without a receiver to decode the information that’s being transmitted. Without the receiver, the data would remain impotent. In a very similar way, we need to have our own ‘receiver’ switched on so that we can activate a clear and precise understanding of our own life, all other life and what everything else in existence is.
Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day helps us to achieve this because it allows us to reach the core of our enlightenment and keep it switched on. That’s because Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what scientists now refer to as the unified field of consciousnesses. To break it down - Myoho represents the Law of manifestation and latency (Nature) and consists of two alternating states. For example, the state of Myo is where everything in life that’s not obvious to us exists - including our stored memories when we’re not thinking about them - our hidden potential and inner emotions whenever they’re dormant - our desires, our fears, our wisdom, happiness, karma - and more importantly, our enlightenment.
The other state, ho, is where everything in Life exists whenever it becomes evident to us, such as when a thought pops up from within our memory - whenever we experience or express our emotions - or whenever a good or bad cause manifests as an effect from our karma. When anything becomes apparent, it merely means that it’s come out of the state of Myo (dormancy/latency) and into a state of ho (manifestation). It’s the difference between consciousness and unconsciousness, being awake or asleep, or knowing and not knowing.
The second law - Renge - Ren meaning cause and ge meaning effect, governs and controls the functions of Myoho - these two laws of Myoho and Renge, not only function together simultaneously but also underlies all spiritual and physical existence.
The final and third part of the tri-combination - Kyo, is the Law that allows Myoho to integrate with Renge - or vice versa. It’s the great, invisible thread of energy that fuses and connects all Life and matter - as well as the past, present and future. It’s also sometimes termed the Universal Law of Communication - perhaps it could even be compared with the string theory that many scientists now suspect exists.
Just as the cells in our body, our thoughts, feelings and everything else is continually fluctuating within us - all that exists in the world around us and beyond is also in a constant state of flux - constantly controlled by these three fundamental laws. In fact, more things are going back and forth between the two states of Myo and ho in a single moment than it would ever be possible to calculate or describe. And it doesn’t matter how big or small, famous or trivial anything or anyone may appear to be, everything that’s ever existed in the past, exists now or will exist in the future, exists only because of the workings of the Laws ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ - the basis of the four fundamental forces, and if they didn’t function, neither we nor anything else could go on existing. That’s because all forms of existence, including the seasons, day, night, birth, death and so on, are moving forward in an ongoing flow of continuation - rhythmically reverting back and forth between the two fundamental states of Myo and ho in absolute accordance with Renge - and by way of Kyo. Even stars are dying and being reborn under the workings of what the combination ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ represents. Nam, or Namu - which mean the same thing, are vibrational passwords or keys that allow us to reach deep into our life and fuse with or become one with ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’.
On a more personal level, nothing ever happens by chance or coincidence, it’s the causes that we’ve made in our past, or are presently making, that determine how these laws function uniquely in each of our lives - as well as the environment from moment to moment. By facing east, in harmony with the direction that the Earth is spinning, and chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo for a minimum of, let’s say, ten minutes daily to start with, any of us can experience actual proof of its positive effects in our lives - even if it only makes us feel good on the inside, there will be a definite positive effect. That’s because we’re able to pierce through the thickest layers of our karma and activate our inherent Buddha Nature (our enlightened state). By so doing, we’re then able to bring forth the wisdom and good fortune that we need to challenge, overcome and change our adverse circumstances - turn them into positive ones - or manifest and gain even greater fulfilment in our daily lives from our accumulated good karma. This also allows us to bring forth the wisdom that can free us from the ignorance and stupidity that’s preventing us from accepting and being proud of the person that we indeed are - regardless of our race, colour, gender or sexuality. We’re also able to see and understand our circumstances and the environment far more clearly, as well as attract and connect with any needed external beneficial forces and situations. As I’ve already mentioned, everything is subject to the law of Cause and Effect - the ‘actual-proof-strength’ resulting from chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo always depends on our determination, sincerity and dedication.
For example, the levels of difference could be compared to making a sound on a piano, creating a melody, producing a great song, and so on. Something else that’s very important to always respect and acknowledge is that the Law (or if you prefer God) is in everyone and everything.
NB: There are frightening and disturbing sounds, and there are tranquil and relaxing sounds. It’s the emotional result of any noise or sound that can trigger off a mood or even instantly change one. When chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day, we are producing a sound vibration that’s the password to our true inner-self - this soon becomes apparent when you start reassessing your views on various things - such as your fears and desires etc. The best way to get the desired result when chanting is not to view things conventionally - rather than reaching out to an external source, we need to reach into our own lives and bring our needs and desires to fruition from within - including the good fortune and strength to achieve any help that we may need. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo also reaches out externally and draws us towards, or draws towards us, what we need to make us happy from our environment. For example, it helps us to be in the right place at the right time - to make better choices and decisions and so forth. We need to think of it as a seed within us that we’re watering and bringing sunshine to for it to grow, blossom and bring forth fruit or flowers. It’s also important to understand that everything we need in life, including the answer to every question and the potential to achieve every dream, already exists within us.
I think you have pretty much covered IT
Rather than extending the mind,I prefer considering that we have more than the most obvious 5 senses. In the days of telegrams, my prorperty was farmed by a woman (with husband) whose identical sister lived in another province. She felt her sister's death before receiving a telegram. The direct gaze is stronger than the periferal gaze. I once accidentally established a line of force with a direct look at a lady. I was able to break it by looking away. On looking back, it reset and I could see that she had no control was terrified. So,I looked away.
As to self-organization. The key word is self and you are one, at core a personal identity as that term was used by David Hume. Is life organized by self? Or is matter self-organizing? And a demonstration from either camp is over due.
This was great! The one philosophical point that jumped out at me near the end was in the discussion of AI gaining consciousness...if it became conscious we would have to change our behavior toward it and treat the machine differently...doesn't that imply connected consciousness and an unwillingness (or moral obligation) to not damage that connection? It's still just a machine, but now it is more than just a material part of all of us and must be treated as such.
I will never forget the last time I had anesthesia. I woke up smiling. I was mad that I was interrupted and felt great. I couldn’t remember anything but I knew that it was wonderful….
this was my experience also, and i had an ostomy done (thankfully temporary-its been reversed now) so it wasnt good times lol. i also noted the stark difference between normal sleep and the anesthesia, i have a sense of time passed when i awake from sleep, but i literally had no timeframe of how long i had been under the anesthesia. i was amazed when they told me id been out for hours, in my mind it could have been seconds or days for all i knew. i awoke literally smiling and cheerful, i joked with the surgeon
"Life will offer you a diminishing number of opportunities to show how smart you are. It will offer an infinite number of occasions that require kindness, mercy, grace, sensitivity, sympathy, generosity and love. Life will require that you widen your repertoire of emotions, that you throw yourself headlong into other people. That you take the curriculum of intimacy. If you haven't mastered it yet, I ask you to turn to this task intentionally now."
- David Brooks
so by default we will alos have he opposites of al those traits and we should practice hate etc?
Wow this video is popping off. I would've never thought that when I sat in the live audience :D This debate is the first of its kind hosted by a mainstream university (as far as I know and as said by Rupert), which could be a sign that times are changing. I recommend videos from the Essentia Foundation if you're interested in these kinds of topics.
Amazing!
The thing is that reality is so strange but if you're aware that someone will be staring at you the results will probably be less successful than if you just compare feelings after a certain amount of time and taking notes when experiencing a feeling and about who's making you feel uncomfortable from the crowd of strangers
This moderator did an extraordinary job!
What a beautiful conversation. I like the respect shown by all three participants, despite their differing, but very studied, points of view. All three speakers have given me a lot to reflect on in this matter. Thank you.
Yes! Healthy respectful debates are so important to develop well rounded concepts. I so enjoy proper debates. Many debates these days are simply defensive and many participants are only interested in aggressively shutting down points of view that differ from their own. There is no progress here. If you have an idea, welcome debate and challenges . It's how concepts become refined and more accurate, in my humble opinion.
During a dream I had not to long ago I got conscious. It was crystal clear to me that everything I was experiencing was within me and solo created by me. Waking up my thoughts went to the universal oneness, none duality and so. Am I still dreaming? 🤷🏾
The breathe of, in decision is no a conscious breath but a consciousness that breathes can delve deep into many unexplainable understandings.
Its so weird I woke up from a nap to this video.this is something i think about every morning,my dreams try to keep me sometime when I'm dreaming it feels like I can remember being in my dream for 20 years and when I go back to sleep my dreams continue from where they left off.the only way I wake up from my dreams is by having a nightmare I wake up with my heart beating super fast and trying to ketch my breathe because by that point i can feel pain and I'm telling myself to open my eyes it takes awhile but eventually I can bring my consciousness back to reality and out of sleep its a scarry experience when I can't find your myself I think I get lost in the dream world and it feels like I'm dead like I have to connection to my body and I have to try so hard to get back to myself and make myself open my eyes ..sometimes I wake up and for a second forget where I'm at or who I am or who's with me . I had a dream I got murdered in this house and it was on repeat the dream and I remember what the house looked like what the mom looked like and I would walk out of. The room I was in there was my murders in that room and i had this feeling like I was gonna shit myself or my bowls were going to completely release so I run to the restroom and passing by a room is a dog that startles me and the mom is in the room in the background and she has burgendy fluffy wavy long hair she's old and gives me a dirty look and it felt like I did that three times untell i finally reached the restroom and I'm in the restroom its dark and something popes up in front of me and it seems like it yells at me I'm dead and I look in the mirror and my stomach drops and I feel like I'm falling and my whole life flashes before me then woosh I'm back in front of the mirror and that when I realise that its not me I'm looking aat its someone I've never seen before but I'm looking three her eyes and covered in black shit like oil or dirt all over me and I'm saying i don't want to dye this isn't my body and I fall to oblivion and wake up in a sweat breathing heavily ...and thats just one dream there all so vivid ..scary..most of the time
Yep, you’re crazy.
@Bad.az.barbie Whoa..! I love hearing other people's crazy, scary dreams. My sister and I talk together about our dreams all the time; no one else wants to hear it 😆. Your dream sounds intense as hell and very frightening. I hope you're okay and can just take it in stride. I have grown to find my 'scary' dreams just as interesting and intriguing as the fun ones. Stay well x
Reproduction is a sin. Your parents are Satan
LOOK UP SLEEP PARALYSIS..I HAVE THAT CONDITION
ALSO SOME STREET DRUGS
AND PRESCRIBED MEDICATIONS AND EVEN SUPPLEMNTS CAN CAUSE NIGHT TERRORS
EVEN BLOOD PRESSURE MEDS SLEEP MEDS ANTIDEPRESSANTS ETC
LOOK UP ANY MEDS YOU MIGHT TAKE SIDE EFFECTS-
ALSO DONT WATCH SCARY MOVIES
YOUR BRAIN WILL REMEBER AND MIX IN STUFF TO YOUR DREAMS RANDOMLY AND YOU WONT REALISE ITS EVEN FROM A MOVIE OR BOOK ETC THJAT YOU WATCHED OR READ OR EVEN A VIDEO OR SONG YOU HEARD
GOOD LUCK
28:10
Consciousness I'll leave my last words for the poet Emily Dickinson who in a
28:15
beautiful 1862 poem wrote the brain is wider than the sky for put them side by
28:24
side the one the other will contain with ease and you
28:29
besides
Anil Seth boldly maintains (1hr 15min 30sec +) that under general anaesthetic we are in a state of total oblivion. Yet records abound with huge numbers of awareness - frequently during "near death" episodes - of patients viewing the operation from above and eavesdropping on the conversations of the medical staff. My own case is limited to teenage tooth extraction in which, while perception was largely dark and empty there was absolutely no doubt that my mind was in existence
Beautiful…..Thank You …. Interesting……🌞
this is such a brilliant debate. made my day.
I feel seth took up way too much time talking, he didn't really give anyone else a chance to speak, I would have rather listened to Luhrmann and Sheldrake speak more...
great stuff
Listening to this panel, is like being back in the middle age, the heart sends more messages to the brain, than the other way, awake up and move into the 5th dimension with coherent heart-brian
Einstein, Bohr, and Tesla did
I agree with Rupert.with regards to Extramission
I believe, based on a universal observation called 'Atomic Spectroscopy' which is the study of the electromagnetic radiation absorbed and emitted by atoms.
That the electromagnetic radiation our eyes obsorb are then re-emitted back out into the world when the electron returns from its energised excited state, to its rest state.
That electromagnetic energy would shoot back in the same direction and angle it was received by.
So if someone was staring at you, you would theoretically would be able to feel the electromagnetic radiation being projected from yourself, to the person's eyes looking at you and then back to yourself from their eyes.
Which is why it's frequency feels so familiar creating the feeling a that someone is staring at you.
I have my doubts that an electron would be able to re-emit at the exact angle of incident. From my understanding an electron's energy decides the electron shell it falls into and thus the shape of its 'orbit'. So it seems very unlikely.
However, I have an alternative crank theory which I've derived from 3 things. 1) entanglement 2) "photons don't experience time" 3) the quantum eraser experiment.
You feel it, because the photons communicating your shape and colours are entangled with you and any fields surrounding you and your brain.. now perhaps unrelatedly since these photons don't experience time it is as if their birth and death are the same instance.. so now upon death when they hit someone else's retina their entanglement to you transfers to another person and you feel their consciousness touch yours.
Like I said, crank theory.. but maybe it is closer to reality than the alternatives.
@@joshcooper6465 great concept. I like it. That feeling like someone is watching is the feeling of spooky action at a distance.
From my brain storming on entanglement, I when I was asking the question:
Is there an objective and local reality.
An entangled particles spin is set at the point of entanglement. They are not in a super position (2 realities simultaneously)
The reality of their spin direction is unknown until measured. Measuring it does not manifest reality, it manifests Information about an objective reality that was created at the point of entanglement. They are 1 or the other.
Conservation of angular momentum forces the particles to be opposite at the point of entanglement, as the interaction between the two particles causes them to bounce off In Opposing forces. Like 2 billardballs rolling into each other. At the point they collide, one spins up, the other spins down and the move apart in opposite directions. If we call that entangled, the moment you measure one ball, you immediately know the spin of the other.
Things have to be objectively real whether we observe them or not, as 2 people observing the wave functuons of matter at different times experience the same reality and describe it identically. One person didn't see it first and manifest it into reality and make everyone else see it that way. It is the way it is and always has been due to the nature of the fundamental particles it's composed of.
So I do t believe entanglement is an actual thing. Just our best guess in an unexplainable phenomenon that we don't have the technology to test yet.
I could understand how this concept could hold water. Electromagnetic energy is limited to its range. Depth of field. Then if my aura is not reaching the peering eyes, it would be the energy that is disturbed by the energy of the peering eyes that attract my attention. The particle is photon. I would argue the photon has the unlimited range and line of sight. When another photon comes in the line of sight, they exchange energy and velocity to match and move on. However, if the energy is more neutrons than protons then it would be negative energy. That could interfere with absorbing positive energy, leaving a feeling of negativity from a specific direction.
Then explain me why I can make someone turn around because I am looking at him/her with my eyes closed! Your explanation falls apart with this.
@@ExperiencedGhostwell for starters id like to see your double blind experimental evidence to verify that claim. secondly, your eyelid skin is not solid. Light can travel through your eye lids, they are translucent. electromagnetic radiation can penetrate a lot of "solid" matter, as 99.99% of matter is generally unused space. Maybe if your eye lids were made of lead, then i would agree my theory falls apart.
E= mc^2= Q(sentience), I learned also that thought is faster than the speed of light. I learned that this reality we experience as a human is an illusion - I was shown a halographic universe held by the intention of LOVE, which again, as I have stated, love is a force, not just a feeling. - CR
Thank you for articulating my similar experience during ketamine treatment. I’ve tried to explain it but have found it difficult.
Bravo
HARD TO RAP YOUR HEAD AROUND OUR REALITY IS NOT BASED IN REALITY.
for an intention of love, this plane is a horror show.
@@kellychubaborn in a diamond mine, it’s all around you but you can’t see it.
Thankyou TH-cam for allowing me and hanging in there with me... go look. And Thankyou "Google" for loving all information and its sources like about "Sega" my dad's gift to me when I was only so young. I'd love to go to Japan to see the Sega building and the area I think it looks so cool and they were with USA north America. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉❤
The topic is fascinating and mulitfaceted, far more complex than we think or imagine and it is not likely that any human will ever solve it, using science, technology or else. We all sense that there's a bigger truth "outside" and "inside" and it has to do with Mistery much more than with contemporary science. For all those who love to explore in depth and considering many perspectives I suggest the book "Cosmos and Psyche" by Professor Richard Tarnas. A small piece of a Cosmic puzzle.
Modern research on Near Death Experience by Raymond moody, reincarnation memories by Ian Stevenson/Jim trucker and past lives regression by Brian Weiss all independently but coincidentally show that our consciousness survive death, we live many lives and our thoughts and actions matter in the hereafter.
So be kind and helpful to others, be virtuous, meditate and cultivate ourselves to higher spiritual levels. Cheers.
On reincarnation I would humbly say it is not conclusive because non-human intelligences like démons can induce false memories since they exist perpetually.
So I agree we must be kind and good, but only because God the highest intelligence will judge us all.
NDE is not different from a dream, meaning it's like a subconscious mind at work.
@@user-hm2ee5sr4q There is a massive difference between an NDE and a dream. That is that during an NDE one is brain dead, there is no blood circulation, no oxygen to the brain, and no neural activity as a result. Yet many people report that during this time they have experiences, and that should not be possible.
Anecdotal at best
@@kaibuchan
When many people all over the world have the same anecdotal experiences, intelligent people will understand it differently from you.
Thank you. Very interesting and cordial discussion. Can you do one on ghosts and spirits (things that go bang in the middle of the night)?
oh, i solved that one too. yeah ghosts are bullshit also.
@@rsmonge I think your research is Bull crp too ... Ignorance at its peak
@@majorjps1jadeja878 well, all you need to do is detect one of these ghosts, reliably. absent that well, you believe in ghosts, so you'll believe almost anything. so uh, give me $500 and help u talk to your a, great gramma.
@@rsmonge I don't know, regardless of what religion one follows or not, everyone believes in such things. It's not something humans disagree on
@@LondongirlMaryam first of all, i don't believe in "such things". second, religion itself is the cause of the confusion. 3rd, the fact that so many people can believe so many things, with such fervor, yet disagree, shows you that humans are not terribly good at scientific thinking, and, that the vast majority of them are totally wrong.
I HAD THIS EXACT CONVERSATION A DECADE AGO WITH MY FRIENDS WHILE I WAS STONED. IM PRETTY SURE THEY WERE TALKING BACK.....
Tanya Luhrmann just made me realize - it would be a lot of fun for them to throw John Vervaeke into one of these as the 'in the middle' role, ie. a lot of the more abstract points Tanya's making I'd see him making as well - let alone he'd probably go down all kinds of interesting Neoplatonist and 4E, four ways of knowing, etc. rabbit holes.
I may change the question slightly! "Can consciousness extent beyond Biological beings?"
No I don't a difference. Brain or biological being, it's the same. Both tells us about the body that exist in one frequency, while the energy in us is of an energy of a higher frequency. When the body dies, the energy remains - that's the one of a higher frequency.
the lady is speaking all about what I used to call being a sensitive, just focusing your mind a little you can see people heath by the color of their aura. I now try and avoid this stuff as it never seems to end well, but i have been everywhere. today I visualize consciousness as two journeys, one to life until birth then a journey to death. this all begins with the first journey.
She's also talking about what is originally known as the witch's familiar. And today I guess they're calling them Tulpa's. Same thing, same practice, with a different title for the kiddos.
Reading McGilchrist’s The Matter with Things makes listening to this simpler. He mentions Rupert a few times too. Newtonian folks people can’t think in the immaterial. I was an immaterialist via art practice for decades, which made reception of the field real after years of building skill of letting go while in nature and embodied. The super materialists are tough to abide with. I think they have fear of death.
Fantastic discussion
I don't know if consciousness extends beyond the brain, but something does. My life experiences have shown me this.
I do...I have experienced my thoughts outside of the body left....it was an sense of expansiveness...along with thoughts of how I was going to get my expansiveness back into my body. As well, life experiences and small miracles while serving in a particular way for others. In this case serving animals.
At various times during my life, weird experiences have demanded that I question the purely material paradigm of scientific culture, and for me it turns out that consciousness is not a hard problem at all. One just has to adapt Leibniz' Law a little, to see that for example, when you reach out to pick up a gup of tea, some part of your mind, probably the most central, or most connected part at that moment, is in a very true sense identical with some of the facts of the cup of tea - otherwise it would be an hallucination.
Our minds are both composed of neural activity, and facts. The facts share something in common with other facts, that may not be composed of neural activity, but other material stuff, or on occasion someone else's neural activity. Sharing facts extends our consciousness halfway across the Universe, and nearly back to the beginning of time. No doubt such distant and historical things were objects that have long since changed into other things, with new facts. But that does not alter the facts of what they were. When we see a distant star, our consciousness includes a fact that is the fact of that star's being, and that is well beyond our own brain.
We mentally construct facts about external objects by assembling a mental image that is congruent with the facts as supplied by photons. It is guesswork, mostly; we could be lulled into believing it no different from the AI produced by ChatGPT. But the difference is in the detail. Our mental image is a proper analogue of some other reality, whereas the AI is just a list of words that can only be as conscious as a book, and that is not much. Our mental images are facts, and the more accurate we can make them, then the more conscious we can be, precisely because that produces an identity between subject and object.
However, the "cup of tea" is only the way your mind makes sense of the information standing on the table in front of you. If your mind saw the "reality" of the "cup of tea", could your mind make sense of it?
cerebrum centric view of consciousness vs pan-consciousness... ty rupert
Kind of wish there was more discussion about quantum physics and particle vs wave theory... It would give Sheldrake a bit more ammo.
How?
@@DOCTORHEINOUS more like why? 🙄why would someone sit through a discussion based on religion, cultural faith, and parapsychology but wish there was more of a discussion on quantum physics and wave theory?
That makes no sense! I wouldn't walk into a wine shop and complain that I wish they sold more matcha hot lattes, or Italian cream coffees. When clearly the coffee shop is across the street. 😆
The store wouldn't be in the wrong place, I am the one that is in the wrong place.
As someone who’s been fully conscious outside of my body, I say yes. However I have no evidence, aside from the witness with me who I told what we would see ahead, where we would see it, and how we would see it.
like in dreams ur brain can generate a illusion of a room and ur body and u being out of it , obe are nonsense
@@wanksey5693 how can u say this.... there are stories after stories of people who experienced them and/or NDEs. I believe them..
@@wanksey5693 No offense, but you wouldn't think that if you had experienced them yourself. Then again, you don't need to believe anything you don't feel you should. To some people, the fact that the mind extends beyond the body (in time as much and in space) is an everyday, almost mundane experience.
Seth your words are just amazing!
I was hypnotized by her.
… as a German Biologist -
From first Semester in Biology and Chemistry
I was stunned by the in Flux of Concepts
I never could imagine
In my view -
the nervous system of all organisms
is a sort of radio receiver
Sort of Cosmic GPS
Atoms and Molecules
set like in a crystal Structure field
All we have today
Came from Ideas
And now
We kill that
With dumbifications of technology
We may have past our PEAK …
get a brain, moran
Can you tell me what makes a women 😊
Does Consciousness Extend Beyond Brains? The 2023 Holberg Debate, feat. Seth, Luhrman, & Sheldrake. 3.1.24 tim leary school of digitally based consciousness. an idea which was being touted before leary latched on to it - that one could post snd save one's consciousness via a computer. and you or i could download said consciousness for such matters as: Ai interaction, replicant beings ie robotics...conversing with the past.... all very tiresome and a strung out farce to pin point the fact that perspective, perception and context are different depending on...geopolitical circumstance, nature of self, interaction with the world...
yes everything is going down. it's terrible
@@pikiwiki Comments on ‘Loudest Nose Whistle - Guinness World Records’
The extended question is; does or can consciousness exist if matter is absent?
Can matter exist if consciousness is absent?
Yes, the NDEs suggest it moves to another plane of existence beyond the flesh & blood plane.
The universe is perfect symmetry. One point in the middle and arms extending outward in all directions as if it were on a flat surface. Amen
Excellent, really enjoyed this. I discovered Rupert Sheldrake as a Psych/Comp undergraduate back in 1995. He is still standing steadfast and Panpsychism is gaining momentum in the scientific community. Good to see. Subjective experience and personal opinion is important.I liked all debaters and facilitator 👍
Added to this is the fact the the proof that intuitive decisions are often much better, than purely rational ones. And intuition might include 'knowing' or sensing things beyond the brain, or what the material senses can observe.
I had no idea Steven Tyler also has an academic career
Love from Samoa.
A hypothesis does not have to be testable to legitimate. It just is a possibility that cannot currently be scientifically disproved or proved. In that case it can still be addressed in the more general field of philosophy.
Tanya is impressive. She is taking this all in and is not concluding anything beyond what she can confirm. And yet does not claim to know everything. This is the true scientist brain. We need more of her.
period
It actually seems like cowardice. It's a safe position. She'll go far.
that's not science. her evidence is anecdotal. subjective. and actually nosenscical. if consciousness is somehow connected to an outer spiritual experience, then why the hell is everyone having such a different experience? and yet, why are people who share culture have experiences that are more similar? the best explanation is that each culture invents their own, and none of them are real.
@@rsmonge I agree completely
I simply can't find that impressive.
"Deconstruct their life and reconstruct who they are".
Exactly what is required to become truly sober if you're an alcoholic.
(personal experience, after 45 years of drinking)
It has been said that we have to die consciously (remain conscious as we die) in order to remain awake, rather than being asleep, in the next dimension.
Lots of things have been said that are complete nonsense. When anyone dies all their material parts are recycled, the only part that can remain is their truth, and that consists of all the facts of their existence - everything. Such facts are eternal and independent of truth making realities - they also form the basis of consciousness. The brain creates peaks of these facts by connecting approximate truths, so full awareness is a big bright experience, and allows us to accurately enough interact with the world around us. The woven peaks of aware consciousness are made of the stuff of facts, and so are just as eternal as any other fact. All of it survives, just in a very ghostly quiet form, lacking a brain to connect any of it with material reality. If you have been consciously aware at any time in this life, which we all have, then your awareness will persist. What's more it will necessarily be connected to every identical fact, and nearly connected to every nearly identical fact. There are some obvious conclusions that can be drawn from this.
Yes.
Currently half way through, what an incredible discussion. I really wish I could ask Rupert Sheldrake if the theory about the mirror isn’t directly contradicting the gaze experiment. Because if the person A having the gaze is looking towards a person B in a mirror and to A it will be the case that B is behind the mirror, then A will send his “gaze force” behind the mirror. But can B feel that, since B is on a physical location that differs from the location in the field where A has the energy of the gaze directed to. The easier explanation still may be that feeling a gaze is realizing the social /physical importance of someone looking at us rather than receiving energy from a field. The fact that we suddenly know that someone is gazing at us doesn’t strike me as very convincing because there are also enough reports of people not noticing that someone is intently looking at them. How often do you hear about someone having a crush on someone else and the receiver of the affection being the last one to notice it. Seems hard to explain if things like gazes and crushes directly are sent through a field. We may only “feel” the gaze once we turn around and discover that we have been gazed at, and if we turn around because we think we feel a gaze but there is nobody there, we may easily forget our earlier thought. This would make us biased to associate gaze feelings with situations where there was really a gaze.
Great comment. Interesting! (I cannot venture a hypothesis myself but understand you.)
Some people can hide their crush, better to look at people staring behind/through a lens, or those who feel their attention can't be noticed I think.
Exactly. It's not compelling evidence whatsoever
For any one interested in these conversations, I would encourage you to seek out some discussions with Bernardo Kastrup and with Donald Hoffman. They seem to me to be a step further on.
Absolutely 💯
Hoffman’s book, ‘The case against reality’, is a gem.
The question of going under anaesthetic ...what are the thoughts of a person before they go under ?....they wait as they know they are going to black out so to speak ....so what if their mind is not concentrating on blacking out? ...thinking of those having out of body experiences when having operation and being probably in certain circumstances pronounced dead?
it is crucial for philosophical identification
In one situation, when you are walking on the street and you feel someone staring at you without you even first noticing that he is there and when you turn to that person and he is there exactly stirring at you, the way you know him there is because you've caught his neuropeptide.
In energy healing (healing the human energy field), we learn to heal the energy field of the phantom limb, and it works. There is a field of the limb. This work had been done for years. The testing and development had been done for years.
what a hilarious question!! I will have to listen to this one day ....
As a (rather mild) and thankfully cured (Aripiprazole 400mg) schizophrenic, I wont say former but the meds are good long term. I took the opportunity to have dialogues of many whispered discussions with whatever was listening. Apart from some overtly exterior voices and some inner voices, I at times had stomach grumbles that formed sentences, a bit muted for my hearing (I remember asking for a repetition of sentences several times which would rumble a response) but otherwise plain as day, I also had them rapping on windows and 'Gaussing' CRT screens once for yes, twice for no on several memorable occasions and had my matress shaken quite wildly during one or two of these sessions too. That's about the extent of it but the entities/voices would suggest and perform mental feats too. I don't know what state I was in but it was very receptive.
Glad you are well and thanks for sharing your experience. My best friend got that as well a handful of years back, if not maybe a bit more of a severe case, but the aripiprazole helps him a ton too!
@@thesayerofing Been feeling mentally well for years now, thanks and good to know that your best friend is benefitting. I find the meds subtle, you can't really feel any present effect which I find is a lot better than being constantly drowsy (Olanzapine) or zonked right out (Stelazine). The psychiatrist ttried to explain how Aripiprazole works to me, to the effect of "you can still get bad days and events but you'll bounce back rather than stay down and get worse". The same psychiatrist that swore his meds made you live 10 years longer though lol, so who knows.
After such experiences I still don't know what to personally believe, the only thing I'm sure of is that if we can't get hold of the elixir of life before we die, cryonics are the best chance to be brought back, eventually. At least you'll be preserved as well as possible on the offchance of revival, I'll take it.
Incredible, after all this time this is it, really. Biology doesn't have consciousness, people other than this single point. All of the 3 dimensional universe is held together by consciousness and sits in the divine mind
@@user-hu6rr1gc7u that isnrt a fact
Sounds like you where possessed
Thank you for the philosophical exposition of the contrast between materialism and idealism. Stupid me, I thought I was about to watch a science discussion. The idealists forgot to mention their manifesto, so Ive included it here.
PHILOSOPHICAL IDEALISM AND CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY
```Philosophical idealism is the view
of the world that holds that there is only
one kind of ultimate reality, spirit or
mind, and that matter is a mode of
activity or manifestation of mind. It
does not deny the existence of matter,
but discovers and shows its true nature
as a mode of divine activity. Its theory
is that the only beings are God,
the infinite and eternal Spirit and Creator, and
finite spirits, such as human souls, and
that the material universe is God's own
system of thought and activity,
his employment and enjoyment which acts
upon finite spirits so as to create in them
a tiny copy or representative experience
of his own world.
Thus God is the infinite Spirit in whom our finite spirits
move and live and have their being. ```
Once i smoked a blunt that was not one.. it was givin to me and it was syntethic Cannabinoide that can kill u. Long Story short after smoking and also while i realised something was off and i had a hard time holding myself conscious. My Vision started to blure away and i was forced in a strange state seeing myself from above with my head looking down and i could move or float a little left a little right but not too far away from myself, after a felt half hour i was pulled Back into myself as If i was falling into myself and a wake Up. I Checked my phone and it is still the same time i started smoking as if Not a minute has passed since. I will never forget that