.357 Mag VS 9mm - Federal 9BPLE VS Federal 357B - Law Enforcement Man Stoppers Head to Head
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- Thanks to Dan the Wolfman for this ammo! / danthewolfman Testing the Federal 9BPLE 9mm 115 gr+P+ JHP VS the 357B .357 Magnum 125 gr SJHP in a 10% Clear Ballistics Test with and without 1/4" MDF. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
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Hope everyone Likes this Classic LE matchup of vounted stoppers. Please check out my Firearm Reviews & Consider getting my 4.5 Hour Combatives dvd on BJJ fanatics
Did you ask Sam before dropping a self-promotion in here? Curious to know.
Since Sam pinned the comment at the top and Dan the wolf man provided ammunition, I’m pretty sure he’s ok with it!!! 😂
Thank you James. I must have missed the gifted ammo part. I wasn't trying to be rude, just curious. I hope Dan get offended by my question. Be well and have a wonderful New Year.
@@mattbrown5511 I know you wasn’t trying to be rude my friend!! Likewise I wasn’t trying to be rude to you either my friend!! Happy New Year to you and hope all is well with you! I’m new to this (hobby ) if it’s called that!! 😎😂 I have alot to learn and look forward to learning as much as I can. Hopefully I can bounce some questions your way in the future.
I dig your vids too Wolfman!
Thanks fer sponsoring!
The average home owner/apartment dweller won't need a bullet that matches FBI protocols, unless a home intruder is carrying a windshield in front of him when he's breaking in, so these old school rounds would suffice just fine in a self-defense scenario. They have the reputation as fight stoppers for good reason. But, to each their own.
IMO, that's a very good point, I Fought Piranhas. I believe this topic needs to be discussed more frequently, in the various self defense/gun channels.
Semper Fi, TreeTop
I agree wholeheartedly. The chances of my civilian butt getting into a gunfight where I need to shoot it out through cover and concealment with someone is pretty non existent. Goodness forbid if I ever have to draw my pistol to defend myself, if there’s a moment my target goes behind something and I can get away I’m outta there like a gazelle on steroids.
Your observation of ‘home intruder’ scenario very rarely enters my mindset. I do see many traffic, grocery store, sporting event shooting scenarios, where considerations might include the ability to breach barrier in self defense moment, or at least possess the capacity to do so…
Nice review. I like that with all the new “modern” rounds the old school classic defensive loading 357 Magnum still works.
Both of those cartridges did well. I carry .357mag as my CCW, but I am impressed by that 9mm, because it didn't fail to expand and over penetrate as that caliber seems to do often. It dumped all of its energy into the intended target. That would be great for home defense and law enforcement.
.357 is already my favorite handgun caliber ever, but I keep finding reasons to like it more and more.
My all time favorite 357 magnum load.
Carried it on duty for a short time before going to a semi auto.
All my 357 revolvers are currently loaded with this Federal 125 gr Semi jacketed HP
Great video !
Ois?
We can all agree that his videos are underrated.
Nice review Sam! Both great rounds. The Federal 125 grn 357 used to be the best man stopper around in a handgun. Still might be. Thanks for sharing!
Yep. Ed Mcgivern said that no cartridge would ever be conceived that bested the 357 magnum for actual performance against men or versatility concerning a handgun. He was right. That was in the 1930s and remains true.
One of my favorites
Great testing. Good defensive rounds for up close and personal engagements. Excellent shooting Sam and thank you Dan the Wolfman who sent in the rounds for testing. ♠️☯️🎩
Thank you.
@@GunSam Yw
I went out and got a 4" .357 based partially on your videos, and partially because I wanted a pistol to match my .357 carbine. Good to see how effective the .357 is after all these years...
Thanks for this test. Those are both classic, tried and true cartridges with proven track records. Both will get the job done. But more importantly, 9mm and .357M are two of my carry calibers.
I love your videos because you make amazing informative content without a crazy budget and a new gun everyday. You’ve found a great niche sir
Thanks, however I do spend well over a grand a month just in ammo and other supplies for the videos.
Didn't realize you had so many unlisted videos, wish I had joined your Patreon sooner. Thank you for all the hard work that goes into these videos, this is an excellent source of data.
I have a ton of the 9BPLE, its not bonded its older HP tech but its an effective round thats been around awhile.
That was kewl. Thanks to the guy who sent it
Good one Sam. Two classic rounds that get the job done.
Good show! Thank you for doing what you do! 73!
Interesting test. This is very informative thank you for posting this.
Thanks for another great video with rounds not often tested elsewhere. Appreciate your work. Hope you have a great Thanksgiving.
Great test of two top notch classic loads, thanks much.
Thanks Gun Sam. Good comparison again thanks again
Even the 115 gr 9mm+p+ couldn't catch up to the .357 mag that's 10 grains heavier. This is just another confirmation that the 9mm, no matter how hot it is, will easily be outperformed by even your standard .357 magnum.
I love your vids dude..... Always using calibers I like to carry. BTW, great shooting at 75 yards! Damn son, no bad guy would be safe from you.
As always another great video giving the viewers good insights and information
Thanks for watching!
I like the old school rounds 👍👍. Thanks Sam hope you have a great Thanksgiving.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Gr8 review and even better Shooting 4 a Gun Sam!!!!
You make it look like a 38 you shot instead of the 357 MAG!!
Considering that both of these rounds were developed before the FBI test protocol became the more or less standardized performance guidelines. I have used the Federal round off and on in the mid 80s to early 90s, and recoil was pretty stout thru any six shot revolver I fired it thru. Still, the performance speaks for its self regardless of what protocol you follow. I was issued the 9BPLE, and interchangeable the Winchester 115 grain +P+ and Federal 124 grain +P+ back in the early 90s. While they didn’t make the list of acceptable loads per FBI protocol and were the topic of great debate by other LEAs in my AO that issued the slow, always over penetrating and seldom expanding 147s, I don’t recall any incidents at least where I worked where they failed to do what they were intended. I can see the penetration issue being relevant based on the Miami FBI tragedy, however. I considered going back to it after retirement as it was pretty cheap a couple of years ago, but was planning/still carrying slim-line Glocks where it’s not recommended. Nevertheless, Speer 124 grain Gold Dot +P and HST perform just as well across the spectrum today, and work fine thru my preferred carry pistols. Anyway, I really appreciated this video. Nostalgic.
Both have been proven to be very effective on the street.
The DeKalb County Police (GA) sent many a felon to the promised land with the 9BPLE.
Back in the day Federal loaded that BPLE from standard pressure, +P and +P+. I used to get all I wanted from Customs and it was hot.
A few years ago, there was a lot of that Federal 9BPLE ammo on the market at very reasonable prices. I think i got a case for about $350 shipped. I still keep a couple of Glocks loaded with that round. You are correct on it being a mild recoiling load. I think it was Fulton Count, Ga. that used that round and gave a lot of bad guys dirt naps using that load.
Sam, good videos. I really enjoy your content.
If I may make a small recommendation?
You should test a couple rounds for penetration, so you have a baseline, as follows:
Five rounds in a bare fresh block.
Five rounds in the combo 3 inch + full-size block.
No MDF, no coth.
What you are likely to find is that the rounds penetrate more, perhaps as much as ten percent more, in the continuous block. When the bullet first enters the block it has to overcome the strength and elasticity of the surface "skin" of the block. In addition, the bullet also loses some of its penetrating power by accelerating the smaller block. (Any time a block is moved back by a bullet it diminishes penetration depth. Try the same rounds in your standard block, and then in an 80 lb block, and you will find greater average penetration in the latter.) I discovered this many years ago, before youtube, with ordinance gel. We tried a slice block, composed of ten 2 inch slices, in order to more easily observe the expansion per inch, as well as a better way to utilize the 2 to 6 inches of leftover gelatin we often had from every block after shooting. We were surprised when the rounds tested penetrated less than previously recorded in solid block tests. We had expected them to penetrate a lot more.
This is in no way a criticism of your test methods, I find it interesting and I believe it is fairly unique on youtube. Very entertaining. However, understanding the penetration difference between the combo block and the sliced block would allow you to add an adjustment for total penetration depths.
Keep the good content rolling.
@A.D. Knight
That makes a lot of sense to me. I’ve noticed bullets shot into actual meat often penetrate less than a solid gel block as well even when no bone is struck. Since real muscle is also made up of layers and each has a membrane around it perhaps a similar effect is going on there.
@@bryangrote8781 Absolutely. Funny you should mention it, but we once got a case of out-of-date chuck rolls and primal round. Bullets do funny things in real meat, often deviating from a straight path likely due to different densities or resistance. Rarely did we get the picture-perfect hollowpoint expansion. Gel tests are great because they are consistent and repeatable; it is an excellent medium for comparing one round against another. And, of course, they will get you the beautiful and oh-so photographic perfect hollowpoint expansion. However, there are limits, and they really are not perfect substitutes for human predators.
It is much like Lab rats. Many people assume the white lab rat is used in testing because it is close to human beings, but in reality we use them because they are incredibly homogenous as a species with little variation from one to the next. This, among other factors, makes them excellent testbeds for research as their consistency eliminates a lot of variables that would skew consistent results.
Good video. Looks like good carry ammo. Thanks for sharing and take care.
Thank you
Cool stuff. Used to have a G19 and I used the 9BPLE. I got a couple 50 round plain white boxes cheap. I was surprised at the recoil as well. Not much different than a regular +p regarding recoil, just more muzzle blast. From everything Ive gathered it’s a tried and true 9mm round. Not fancy or new technology but, there is only so much a 9mm is capable of. I don’t have a 9mm anymore, nor a .357 but, I still enjoyed the video and tests Sam. Good stuff!
Thank for the video. It’s very interesting to me to see the comparisons to old proven rounds. Seems we are being marketed to with clear ballistic gel. I’ve hunted game large and small with a handgun, and the gel, though interesting, doesn’t tell the whole story. Both of those rounds work better than most at instantaneous stops.
Ballistic soap and similar ,clay etc gives a good picture of the whole performance .
Holy crap. Have you always put out this many videos or is TH-cam finally notifying me correctly?
I don't know
This is my favorite ammunition is federal. Hi shock and Hydra shock is really good stuff. Subbed
One yr in the 70s Federal 125 grn B
4 in barrel/ 1400.fps
I carried this round working in the armored truck field in LA
LEO shootings in 1 yr was 468 ppl shot
448 didn't survive
Awesome comparison video as usual. How about 9BP 115 grain Hi-Shok vs 9MS 147 grain Hi-Shok? I always see them for sale online for 50 cents a round. If it performs well then it's cheap enough to train with and carry.
I will have to keep an eye out for them.
Those are good rounds when you cant find hydra shocks. It's the base model of the series.
115 decent 147 very little expansion only for 4" or longer imo
Get the 115 grain. 147 grain is dookie in 9mm unless youre running HST or Gold Dot.
That was pretty cool test. The 1 shot stop charts are interesting. O one hand if you are a cop th stop usually means bad guy down out of the fight. For civilians it seems like I shot is usually all it takes to send all the bad guys scrambling and if you hit with your first shot that usually makes it more effective.
Thanks for a great video I enjoyed this one a lot
And thanks for making learning fun
Thanks!
I really admire that 686 I have the original 6 inch version, but wish I had a 4 too.
Both rounds date back to ruffly 1975, a oldie but a goodie for each. I carried Federal 357B in my revolver while working as a armed guard from 2002-2005 (then was made to switch an automatic, my case a 1911.) Only downside at the time is if I had to shoot through a car windshield, being it wasn't bonded. And both rounds started the FBI protocol as it sits today, which is a good thing.
I am pretty sure that 1 in 20 failure to stop is really just Chuck Norris during his time as a bullet catching analog in the 80s.
If you shoot at Chuck Norris, the gun and powder didn't propel the bullet, Chuck Norris was just breathing hard and accidentally inhaled it before saying "ahh".
You got your " gut shot" at 75 yards. Great video
I got a hell of a deal on a bunch of pulled Hi-shoks (the same bullet at 9ble) so I have about 800 remaining. I used to load them WAY above spec using Power Pistol. I got them up to some 1400 fps out of Glock 19, and killed tons of small game with them. The bullet absolutely shreds apart, even in small game like squirrels. It's a pretty fun little bullet, but very primitive by today's standards. Highly recommend it for the squirrel menace
Yeah that's good powder. Starting charge .45 auto 230 gr is over 900 FPS.
@@GunSam hell yeah brother, I went through pounds of power pistol just making the meanest loads I could. Stupid stuff like 380 90gr fmj in 9mm cases with compressed loads. Sounds like a cannon going off
Interesting how these rounds have a good track record for stopping power but would not, or barely make it passed the FBI standards. If you're not really concerned with barrier penetration (as CCW holders shouldn't be, legally) these rounds have proven effective. More damage to cause pain and shock stopping the threat vs. hitting that magic 12 to 18 inches, maybe.
The FBI standards are very good but maybe too stringent for most civilian needs. LEOs are much more likely to have to engage people inside cars or behind other barriers, but it is good to know a round can go through such materials and still perform. I do think the heavy clothing test is equally valid for civilian needs however.
Ever thought of putting an Apex Evolution Hammer on your 686. I agree single action practice in a defensive revolver isn't a good idea and I've been planning a build around a 66-8 since they disappeared from availability where that aftermarket item would be part.
That is one impressive 9mm round.
The wound channel on that "gut shot" was pretty nasty.
That’s a Nasty 9mm
You had me at .357
Anyone who wants to carry +P+ 9mm should just switch to 357Sig. Thanks for another good test.
Old scholl bullet Works like Gold.... for direct shots they are better than bonded/flextips/and other modern ammo
9BPLE is what I used to be issued. I still have it in my Glock 26 and BHP. From my baby Glock I've clocked it at 1250 which given your results with a 5" bbl is about right, I guess. It'd do 1475 from a 10.5" smg bbl (so, probably wasn't the best choice for that role, in retrospect). Seems to me that 9bple from a compact is knocking on the door of .357 from a 2 ½” or 3" bbl maybe?
357 just varies so much that overlap isnt hard.
That 9BPLE was about $18/box of 50 before the plandemic…got a couple put away. Still liking the Rem-UMC 125gn over the Federal in .357.
The energy dump in these rounds is impressive. There may well be a price to pay in penetration. That may be made up for by rate of bleed out. Granted, I'm not any sort of expert on GSWs. Oddly enough, I was thinking of the Aguila Interceptor rounds that you tested that only yielded about 950fps with 40gr bullets giving about 80 FPE. Similar penetration although obviously a much smaller wound channel.
That 9mm hit on the steel would have been a stop. I'm assuming hitting the pelvis and busting it. You physically can't stand that way.
I am curious what kinda high speed camera you use. I suspect it’s more expensive than most the guns featured on the channel
I don't use a high speed camera
Very good video and educational. If I were carrying either one of these round's and they came into a self-defense scenario, I would just asked the criminal to turn and face me. ( Lol )
Thank you
Just wondering ? After doing your standard chronograph test, why not chronograph the shots fired into the gel ? As I said, just asking !
Because whenever I need it to read with one shot, it wont. Setting the tripod center to the paper target takes a couple minutes to line it up right. It would take forever to do in front of the gel and move it around every shot.
Go with the .357 or .327 magnum revolvers.
disagree with the federal being superior to the remington. don't know about the hardness of the lead of the size of the hollow cavity, but the scalloping seems to facilitate those large fragments exploding from the remington in those first couple of inches leading to a far nastier wound imo. maybe a more in depth comparison between those 2 in the future?
Good comparison. What is the revolver your firing?
S&W 686
"Thank you Alex. I'll take .357 Magnum with the 125grJHP, for $400 and for the win." (My Jeopardy reference for the day)
Sam rings the bell at 75 yards and people ask why he shoots double action...because he can, that's why :D
Sam, if you got some .357SIG, could you test them?
I don't have anything to fire them. I have asked around so many times if the KKM 357 M&P 5" barrel is a conversion for my .40 M&P, or if I am missing something.
@@GunSam It’s a direct replacement for your gun. .357 Sig is fun really cartridge. I love the Underwood 125gr Gold Dot load. 1500fps from a 4” barrel… and yours is a 5” soooo even more fun! Thanks for the videos.
most tests 9bple does 15 to 16 inches
I say 357 mag is better.
Everyone needs to know that the colder temperatures will change how far bullets will penetrate the jell.
Please give the temperature before shooting.
Not necessarily true. I know for sure that organic gel the temp does indeed matter. I don't think it does with the clear ballistic gel he uses.
Just shot the Hornady XTP 158gr out of a 4 inch 686 no dash. Ouch. It wrecked my wrist! It probably has better penetration tho than 125gr sjhp.
9:36 liver shoot
I don't think that any American police still pack .357 Magnum as their standard side arms.I've read that the Alaskan police carry .44 Magnum in case of encounters with bears a choice of all 3 up there; brown, black and polar!
Ok sam lets do a video with the Smith and wesson 500 magnum
Dirty Harry needs a G 40 Glock 10 mm
In this day and age, depending on your intended target, you may need more penetration versus expansion. There is more and more body armor showing up. Just saying.
No pistol round is gonna pierce armor these days, but having a high-energy round like a hot loaded 357 or 10mm will probably deliver some pretty good internal trauma on an armored gunman.
Officer; I was thinking more along the lines of a 5.7 X 28 from FN in their 5-7 or P90 weapon systems. However, a competent reloader than manufactures their own ammo could in theory make a steel core "penetrating" round. I hope you rest well in your class 3 soft body armor.
@@mattbrown5511 New armor like Safe Life defense level IIIa+ is rated to stop 5.7×28. At that point the novelty of it wears off at that point as it seems to be a poor performer on unarmored targets. The only pistol I can think of that has AP capabilities from the factory is the FK BRNO, and that is out of the question for concealment. Also, I'm not a cop it's a fake name for my channel lol
I have a video that is unlisted but quite cool. Just too short to do a full published video. th-cam.com/video/U2KLOL8W2cE/w-d-xo.html
You're like me. You shoot a double action revolver better than single action.
And to think thats the strongest 9mm ammo available just to barely get close to a weaker 357 ammo, tells us all we need to know,
And this isn’t even comparing it with a hot 357 load like the 125g at 1700fps , which gets close to 800 ftlbs energy
Owning both calibers I love the 9, but it will never be a 357
...and they work in the real world....where it counts.
Seen all hand gun caliber fail. 45 9mm 40 357 all with multiple hit. Better results with 38 spl. It was shot very ez. Low recoil. Shot placement. Anything worth shooting is worth 2 of 3 shoots.
👍🙂🎯
Thinking of selling my 44's and just stick with 357.
Never sell anything lol
Too bad they discontinued that 357B :,(
I didn't know they did. But Federal Train+Protect is the same ammo.
.357, the best all around bullet. Does the job,carry a revolver all the time. LCRX 5 SHOT.
If a woods gun, I think I'd rather have the 357. For a dedicated antipersonnel firearm, I'd prefer the 9mm, due to faster shot to shot time and faster reload. Jerry Miculek I'm not.
...and I still miss the baloney....😄
classics are classics for a reason but charts arent all real world data points
Not all are real data points, but if the round in question is a long used LE round, you probably are safe saying those are real numbers.
@@GunSam thats what i was trying to say yeah classics are classics for reason
@@joemorganeatmyshortschannel It just takes some common sense. Like, .357 Mag 125 gr SJHP shows 96% one shot stop. In addition to this you hear from cops saying that one shot was lights out, same stuff you hear about .40 S&W, so you hear stories and see the data and it all lines up. The charts that are not real world are stuff that will show some hyper ammo like Corbon Powerball +P+ and have stuff like 90% estimated, 12" in gel etc.
Stopping power ha ha i bet many people didn t sleep because those 2 words at night right beside their wifes....
I like my Beretta storm full size 9 mm. 18 rounds Hornady critical duty.shoot one!
👍😃✌️🇺🇸
Use 12 ga buckshot when you really need to stop'em with one shot. Winchester 30/30 usually works too.
I'm always amused by one-shot comparisons. I know we need to have some form of reference, but I have always taught my students to keep making holes until there is no longer any threat. With a 10rnd semi auto in .22LR in most cases they'll stop somewhere between 1 and 10. There are ammo reliability issues there so I recommend a centerfire selection.
The numbers listed are not a suggestion to stop shooting, they are just data points taken from shootings where one round was fired.
@@GunSam Sorry, I wasn't knocking you, I'm a big fan. Merely musing on the "firearms information industry" as a whole. Did I just coin an original phrase? If you are good at it (you are) making sure new shooters understand the terminology adds to their understanding. I see a lot of new folks in your comments. Keep up the good work.
If I have to shoot twice, aka (2) times, I am going to loot the body to pay for the second, third, fourth etc. Bullet !
😆😆😂😂😆😆😂😂😆😆😂😂
Hell, if it was like an Xtreme Defender i'll cut that bad boy out and use it again.
It hard hitting, but I believe penetration is the most important element of defensive ammunition.
Who is we ? He keeps referring to "what we're seeing", So who the hell is we?
For a person without followers, it would be "I". For followed productions, it's "we". I take it you haven't narrated or shown anyone something before.