Federal 110 .357 SJHP was the duty round of the US Border Patrol in the early 90s until transition to .40 S&W. It replaced the .38 Special 110 grain +p+ Treasury load. Recoil as I remember was less than the 125 grain Federal .357 but still potent enough to stress the K-frame S&Ws when agents had to qualify quarterly with duty ammo on a 74-round course every three months. The 686s, Security Sixes, and GP100s handled it better. I would rate its real world effectiveness as equivalent to a 9mm +p+ from that era.
Your assessment of the 110gr .357/.38 rounds are spot on with the E.P. Marshall studies of ACTUAL shootings from the 70's & 80's and Massad Ayoob's compilations of actual shootings results. The FBI studies, in my opinion, are slanted to much toward KILLING mechanism and not STOPPING. For whatever flaws the measurements of actual shootings may have, I believe they are far closer to the truth than coroners evaluating gelatin. They always bias their opinions to KILLING ability rather than stopping power, since mechanism of death is what they understand best.
In the K-Frame's defense, it was never designed with .357 magnum in mind. The K-Frame has been around since 1899. To oversimplify things a bit, the .357 magnum came out in 1935 and was built around N-Frame revolvers. Ruger designed the Security-Six to be a .357 magnum revolver from the beginning. That plus the metallurgical advances between 1899 and the early 1970s allowed the Security-Six to eat full power .357 magnum ammo all day long whereas the K-Frame Smiths couldn't, despite being the same size. The 686 and GP-100 were also designed to be .357 magnums right out of the gate. It's no wonder they handled full house .357 magnum loads better than K-frames of the era.
@@Kaelland Tell me about it. In the 80's I bought 7 S&W M19's. All got a duty tune from the same Smith. All got Pachmayr grips. One was reserved as my self defense gun and to this day has only had about 300 rounds through it. The other 6 have had THOUSANDS of 3/4 power magnum loads through them. A 3/4 power 158gr magnum load has the same muzzle lift as full 125gr loads. Every one had to have the barrels put in a full turn and the forcing cones re-cut. One needed a new barrel since the barrel SPLIT at the forcing cone. That barrel had to be set back and recut a couple of times. Interestingly, the actions remained tight and in time but there was severe flame cutting to the frame at the cylinder gap. The result? Doing a classic El Presidente with with 125gr Remington factory load and Safariland speed loaders I consistently posted times of 8-9 seconds..I couldn't do that with any other revolver save possibly the security 6, but the DA pull isn't as good as the M19 Smith. The M19 kicks fast and more straight back due to the low bore axis, so the rise and fall is fastest of all. The smooth DA pull helps keep groups tight.
@@Kaelland Meant to say the forcing cones of ALL six were set back and recut MULTIPLE times, in addition to the one barrel that split at the forcing cone. Also, the flame cutting at the top of the frames above the forcing cones, although alarming, never seemed to become an issue. None ever failed on me at least.
@@Kaelland very true summary. On the other hand, many of those who had K-frames still coveted them and refused to give them up even as they were spitting lead all over the place.
I would love to see these tested "head to head" against the Winchester White Box Q4204 110gr 357 Magnum load. I think Winchester is downloading to more of a 38Spl +P+ level for the so called "Treasury Load". I imagine Remington and Winchester are also each using their own projectiles.
This is the round I carry daily in a Kimber K6 3" for the very reason you note, i. e. low recoil but substantial punch. At the range, though, I still use 38+p to practice. The gun weighs 23ozs. and handles the 110gr load without stressing my wrist much.
I've been shooting guns foe over 40 years and studying ballistics fo almost as long. This video was very eye opening and educational. Some really good info here. Thank you so very much for not only the testing but the explanation about the 110 grain round. GREAT VIDEO!!!!!
Thanks to Sam’s testing videos I now stoke my .38’s exclusively with Rem HTP 110gr +P SJHP’s and my .357’s with HTP 125gr SJHP’s. Old skool rounds that are still doing the job like a boss. 👍
Used this as my carry round in my S&W MP340 due to the light recoil. Because of the light weight of the revolver (13.8 oz) I did have some issues with bullet creep. I used my crimp die to apply just a small amount of additional crimp to the case mouth and it prevented bullet creep. No appreciable increase in velocity with the additional crimp so I don’t think pressure was increased.
Wow. Thanks for this one. It really hits home. As I've commented before, I carried 110 gr .357 rounds in a 4" S&W Model 19 and a 2 1/2" model 66 back in the late '80s and through the '90s. The last few years I laughed at myself for that but now I don't feel so bad. Not "ideal" perhaps, but for most face-to-face shootings, that's enough penetration. In my snubby S&W 66 they definitely kicked a bit less than 125 and 158 gr loads. Anyway, I've been looking forward to this one. Thanks!
I feel like a good shot with it would do as well as a 125 gr. The only drawback might be if it hits a hard barrier, it's gonna lose some weight, the 158 and 125 might overcome it and still have 100 grains on the other side, but 110 gr gets iffy. Might be 60 grains left after the door or windshield or wall which is a recipe for low penetration.
I’ve carried their +P, HTP in my 340PD for a few years. Easy to control, readily available & no bullet setback in this very light revolver. I’m going to try the magnum rounds based on your video & see how it does.
Easy to control full house .357 in a 340PD?, Ive had 2 of those and at 11.4 Ozs they are not a fun handgun to shoot with full house .357 Magnum unless you like the feeling of hitting a flagpole with a aluminum baseball bat in the middle of winter, Recoil isn't so bad it literally rattles your hand, They're a .38+P gun chambered for .357, 110 Grain is not recommended and is even marked on the front of the barrel because of bullet losing its crimp from the same reason it rattles the shi* outa your hands
Now that ammo is coming back, I have been seeing alot of odd-ball weights like these 110 grain Magnum loads. They seem a little light but your test shows that they work for social purposes just fine. I will stick to heavier loads just to make the 10mm fanboys nervous.
Yeah lol. Pull out some Buffalo Bore 158 grainers at 1,500 FPS. No one in the ballistic world wants to compare their choice cartridge to it, if it's not .357 Magnum.
@@Matteo_ There is a reason for that. You get a nice compromise, generally 180 grains at around 1000-1100 feet per second without the .40 torque and twistiness. Its a little below what Bill Jordan wanted for the .41 Magnum in a law enforcement load (200grain at 1200 fps) but its quite manageable while still being a good performer on hogs and such. And in my area, I have not seen either .38/.357 other than very briefly at a buck a round. For Range Ammo. [SoCal] . The 10mm is roughly comparable to .357, with a different bullet weight and profile. I would not shoot heavy 180 grain .357 out of a K frame either.
@@alecswann7234 Been shooting 10mm since the '90s. And yes, I aware that it is fairly comparable to 357. That said. Powder selection can do wonders. As it stands you can drive a 180gn @1000 fps in a 40 at sub 28K psi. And that's a starting book load for one particular powder. Its pretty tame. Point is 10mm has turned into some d__k measuring caliber with vast majority shooting 10mm FBI loads. All while denouncing 40. Which I just find extremely comical. As for the 41 mag LE loading that as I remember is a 170gn at 12 to 1250 fps. And I'm old enough to remember when my PD carried them. 41 Mag is a fantastic round by the way. One of my favorites to load for.
Thanks. I have thought about it, but historically I suck at loading magnum ammo. Something about it where it's rarely right, loads will say 1,500 FPS and I get 1,050 FPS. I think it has to do with crimps. I load some mean .38's though.
You’re a much better shot than you say you are. Experienced yes but almost as good as Robin Hood is with the bow. On your distant metal targets, would be nice if there was something surrounding the target to give some shot feedback. We aren’t ever supposed to shoot into water due to how bullets can skip and bounce, but long ago on the farm we had a small pool of water at the bottom of a steep hill. From on top we were shooting almost directly onto the surface. We learned a lot by getting the shot feedback.
I bought a box of Smith & Wesson brand 110 grain 357 Mag SJHP's from someone last year. From what I have read they were rated at 2000 FPS and last manufactured in 1980. The blue and white box looks pretty much good as new. I shot a couple rounds to make sure they still worked, and they went bang without a problem.
Having a bullet that light just smacking into something is a recipie for low penetration. Wouldnt be my cup of tea, i like the 158gr sjhp, but if youre worried about overpenetration that would be something you might consider. Thanks for the vid
I bought those exact bullets. Very expensive from a national retailer. 158 gr and 125 gr +p from a small dealer was much more reasonable price. I was firing with a S&W Model 28 with a 6" barrel. The Model 28 weighs 44 ounces and with a 6" barrel, recoil is managed very well whether using 110 or 158 gr. I noticed no appreciable difference between the two rounds. Of course the Model 28 is old school; no matter what I shoot through it, the trigger guard bangs against the knuckle of my middle finger making prolonged firing very uncomfortable. Fortunately, being a revolver guy, I believe in making each shot count so I don't have to shoot repeatedly. As for accuracy and confidence, I really like my Model 28. That said, I don't have a lot of experience with other weapons. I am at peace with having it as my primary home defense.
Reminds me of the 38+p 110gr from Hornady Critical Defense, except the CD is only rated 1090 fps from a 4" barrel. Goodness those Remingtons whizz along!
They may have switched powder, in which case they might have to stay at or above the minimum load. If it’s something like W296/H110 the minimum pistol load is 1992 fps (10” test barrel) for a 110gr xtp.
Was the recoil of the 110 a little lighter in that snub vs 125 grain?? Awesome video. The smallest lightest revolver I’ve tried that 110 load in was Ruger SP-101 3” which is still kinda heavy for a short barrel .357.
That’s a nice round w/o the risk of over penetration. I’m surprised at the real world velocities vs what’s stated on the box, Lol. Thanks for another fine test.
Back when I carried a S&W-66 2.5 inch I used the old Winchester white box 110 SJHP. While the full-house Federal 125 were doable, the 110 was just much better for follow up shots. They would leave pretty impressive permanent cavities in wet newsprint (the ballistic jell of its day) and burrowed almost as deep as the 125. For a while there they were as cheap as regular plinking rounds, ah the good old days . . . ¬_¬
I still remember in 2003, my friend and I were buying some .40 and 9mm to shoot around with, 100 rounds of 9mm $9.95 and 100 of the .40 $18.95. I still remember being a teenager in 1995 and buying the brick of 550 .22's for $8.97
I reload. In my tests the 110 are perfect for short barrels and you don't need to worry about pass through. Especially when you load these in a 38sp++ Awesome results. I use Ruger SP101 2 inch and a Ruger GP100 4 inch. On a different subject. I was reading where in the 5.56 boat tail bullets were cutting into the rifling with the same "torch" effect you're talking about.
Great video review. I just don’t know if there’s anything a 357 Magnum can’t do. I’ve never shot this particular loading but I have shot 110gr before and you’re spot on with the felt recoil in my opinion.
I’m on the hunt for a 110gr that can penetrate deep so I can load them up close to 1600fps out of a 357 sig or 356 tsw! If somehow they manage to stay together and penetrate they would be a nasty round. The tsw especially benefits from shorter bullets since it’s just 9mm dimensions. Underwood has a 115gr going 1550fps from a Glock 19 but they fall completely apart
Maybe they are trying to keep up in the market.. I’ve seen a lot of defense rounds lately. 9mm.. 65 grain. 1730 FPS. 430 pounds. Many others.. 45 acp at 125 grains.. etc. Add some excitement to the .357... next we’ll be seeing the 44 mag at 125 grains. Lol Great video as always. 👍🏻
There shouldn't be any issue with hot 110gr loads in a rifle, right? I have a smith 586 but also have a Marlin 1894c in 357 and I have some 110gr projectiles that I'd like to try out with h110, get some silly velocities with an 18.5 inch barrel. Bullet setback and flame cutting shouldn't happen in a rifle id imagine
Looks like Remington doesn't water down their 110gr sjhp like Winchester. Good load where shallow penetration may be required. Too bad Remington stopped making their 140gr sjhp.357 Mag
@@tylermorrison7051 Yes, i have a box of those. Probably excellent for deer and hogs. Bought em before this ammo price gouging - they're probably $50 now for a 20rd box
my local Dunham's has the 110+p .38 special by the boxes.. but I haven't seen much data on them! I personally carry the 125+p version in my LCR because of your testing.
If you mean civil defense from them, they do but it's weak for a .357 Mag. I tested but not in gel, rather bologna and water jugs. Mediocre performance.
Thanks. I think the flash was a tad higher than 125 gr. Always hard to tell on video as often times, even if the gun flashes huge every shot, because it's so fast the camera even at 60 frames a second only picks up 20% of the flashes.
Taking my LCR to the range for the first time. I'll try some Buffalo bore standard pressure semiwadcutters and Hornady Critical Defense 38+p ftx. I bought some BB std press full wadcutters. Wish I could test them in ballistic gelatine.
Great video as usual, I carry this round in a SP101 3in sometimes. Obviously great expansion, but penetration is probably adequate but not great. Makes me wonder if I should stick with my 38+p Federal Punch or some of my other heavier 38+P.
I'm surprised that the 125s didn't penetrate more. I'm also surprised that the 110s didn't flat out explode! LOL. I wonder if Remington advertised the velocity for a snub for the 110s? I've noticed in my reloading manual that the powder charges between 110 and 125gr bullets are not that much. Max charge weights, depending on the powder, seem to vary on the order of 0.2gr. At least that was 38 Spl+P. 357 Magnum takes a LOT more powder than the 38Spl. I can't find the 110gr HTP stuff anywhere. I used Ammo Seek and one place that had them wanted over $2/round. I'm not paying that much! I do have a supply of Hornady XTP bullets. I don't have any 125gr bullets, but I have 110, 140 and I think a box of 158. I see a lot of tests where XTPs fail to expand much, if at all. I'm wondering if I can sling the 110s fast enough to expand a bit out of a 1 7/8ths inch barrel. I wish FTX bullets were available. I've only seen them in 140gr weight and I don't want those. I'm thinking that 110gr jacketed hollow points would do well at CIP pressure levels in 38 Spl. If I can run the 110gr XTPs out at 1100fps, perhaps they can expand properly. Max charge for Unique is listed at 6.2gr. Maybe 6.5gr will get me there with CCI 550 primers. I want to test the CCI 450 primers too to see if they ignite reliably. Primers are hard to find right now. But I do have some pre-covid stock.
I remember reading Remington's information on 110 gr in the past, but it is now gone for the 110 gr .357 Mag. I still remember that for 9mm, .45 and .357 Mag/.38 they list 4" for all of it. I found that especially interesting that they didn't list 5" for the .45 auto. I found 1,000 pack cases and 100 pack boxes for CCI 500's being stocked at my local store a couple weeks ago, and only like $80 for the 1,000. I only got three 100 packs lol. Looking back I should have done like my kid, Cliff bar peanut butter banana has been out for months, we see it yesterday she throws two cases in the cart lol. 110 gr XTP's definitely need some juice. I think I did get 125's to expand in a bologna test at just 950 FPS, but I bet in gel they would not. I know for a fact that 125 XTP at 850 FPS does not expand. For 110 gr I think you might need more than 950 to expand, but i'm not sure. 1,100 would probably work.
@@GunSam You probably should have picked up a case of those primers. I'm hoping the XTPs will work. They seem to want speed. Lots of speed. I don't think I have a shortage of brass! If there is one serious advantage of a revolver over an auto, it's not throwing away precious brass!
I mean, if it were a problem with me maybe. But my S&W's and Ruger's do not have this problem, and I don't carry the Taurus, so it's one more thing to remember while filming.
With some ammo yes, however many types now days meant for law enforcement like Federal HST and Hydrashok, Critical Duty and I believe Gold Dot, use sealants that act as glue in both revolver and semi auto loads, so in that case not really.
Oh I know, same energy and velocity/weight as the gun I took my first deer with, .270 Weatherby Magnum. Just think, that 3,500 ft lbs energy in a 2" would have to match a .50 BMG in a rifle. Wait, nm that's a 9mm that can do all that.
If you had to pick 1 357 load for self defense what would it be? I'm currently carrying the 38 special lite 90gr ftx, because it was the only thing available local. But I think I'd like somewhere around a 158gr 357 as a carry load, for when I'm not carrying my g19.
Depends on the barrel length and overall need, like if it's big game protection involved or not. If I had to pick just one in general assuming both will work, low recoil in both a 4-6" and a 2-3" and no bear defense is needed, I would say either the Remington UMC/HTP 125 gr SJHP or the Hornady Critical Defense 125 gr FTX, as both had manageable recoil from a snub and both had full power of 400 Ft lbs+ in a snub and 500 ft lbs+ in a 4". If I thought bear defense was needed along with personal defense I might use a 158 gr in the 4" to 6" barrel as this adds penetration, so maybe the Federal Hydrashok 158 gr or again, a Remington UMC/HTP in 158 gr SJHP as both are basic and do really well. In a snub i'd probably use the same if big game were a thing.
@@GunSam so I'm ahooting a 3" right now. My question is director more for 2 legged threats. I've got a pretty good idea on what the high penetrating dangerous game rounds are in both 38 special and 357 mag. I want a round for general 2 legged protection that gives a little more bight that 9mm. 38 special standard is meh... I can send 124gr xtp at like 1100 from a glock 19. I don't really want a 125gr at 800 from a 38 special. I'd rather get something in the plus p range or mid to lower range in 357. I'm also not opposed to a high velocity low weight round. That will expand and dump energy.
@@hunterhiker6101 In .38 Spl the Buffalo Bore 158 grain LHP +P is rated at 1120 from a 4 in barrel and is very effective on aggressive large dogs. I had several failures of the 357 Hydra-Shoks in the 90s, prompting me to go to Federal 125 357 loads. No failures. 9mm the 124 grain +P Gold-Dot chrono regularly out of my Glock 19 at 1255 FPS. 124 grain in 9mm should be at the 1200-1250fps range for best results.
@@ryancawdor8083 the stuff I have is from freedom munitions. I buy it in bulk to be able to have my glocks and scorpions fed. They sit consistently at 1200 form the scorpions 7" barrel and I want to say 1100-1150 from my g19s.
I wonder how the damage path and recoil would compare between Keith style LSWC in 38 Spl (158gr) vs those 110s. Huge velocity difference. Huge weight difference. And the 110s will have more energy.
I'm willing to send some ammo for a test if you'd like. I'd really like to see the 129 grain 38 spl plus p federal hydra shok compared to the underwood 125 grain plus p jhp
I’m interested in loading 110 grain Lead RN in .38 for my wife to use with a light titegroup powder in hopes of a enjoyable easy shooting round. Then I can make a light load that she won’t complain about because to load a auto loader I have to atleast make them strong enough to cycle but with a revolver I don’t have that problem.
@@GunSam that’s all I’ve use and with most only lead but I’ve been powder coating also after a certain amount of lead bullets I shoot a couple copper jacketed bullets and I’ve never had to clean anything. I’ve shot lubed lead and powder coated alot
Still no sign of this on ammoseek. In fact, they don't even list 110gr as an option in 357. Honestly I don't think they are performing as well as the 38Spl+P versions. Probably less well due to over expansion.
In the years since S&W made there controversial statements regarding 110 grain 357 Magnum many manufacturers have discontinued 110 grain 357mag loadings or changed there loading practices. If you review Hodgon's hand loading manuals there are loads that bost claims of velocities over 2,000 fps in handgun length barrels. I believe these velocities are possible to achieve and these are the loads that may have been damaging guns and gun finishes. Double-Tap and Buffalo-Bore have both discontinued offering lead jacket at hollow points in this weight. Both of these companies now offer a 110 grain Barnes DPX monolithic hollow point which has a sectional density closer in length to a 125 grain semi jacketed lead hollow point (Double-Tap claims over 1800fps in a 6" S&W 686 might be worth checking out). I personally never believe the statements regarding damaging gun finish's since of course firing a gun at all will have some effect on the finish but having seen old Ruger Super Blackhawk 357 Maximums with blued finishes which generally propelled almost everything in the 110gr to 220gr weight range at over 2,000 feet per second I dismissed this claim about the 110 grain 357 mag damaging blued finishes. I actually once read a negative review of 158gr lead round nose 38 special standard pressure ammo where the reviewer would not stop crying or making accusations that it permanently damaged the blued finish of his collectible firearm.
@@GunSam snubs will still be effective of course and pack enough punch ,but they defeat the goal of the magnum cartridge and waste powder as well as increasing flash and most bad things happen at night.
Not many people lol. I have ran standard pressure in what would be about the same "barrel" being a 3.2" 9mm. You get generally 320 ft lbs, maybe 350. Sure the external ballistics is similar as you lose a LOT of .357 energy in a snub, the .357 Mag is a lot more powerful of a cartridge, you just lose more than a 9mm in short barrels so it seems comparable to 9mm. That being said I was just shy of 700 ft lbs with a Buffalo Bore 180 gr hard cast in this 2" barrel. A good 300 ft lbs more potential than a short barrel 9mm.
I mean, I get it. In general the "reliability" of a 110 gr to do much on a side shot or through a barrier would be low. But, if you made a front on shot 1,500 FPS with a 110 gr, I think the attacker would probably stop the direct action they were previously doing.
Federal 110 .357 SJHP was the duty round of the US Border Patrol in the early 90s until transition to .40 S&W. It replaced the .38 Special 110 grain +p+ Treasury load. Recoil as I remember was less than the 125 grain Federal .357 but still potent enough to stress the K-frame S&Ws when agents had to qualify quarterly with duty ammo on a 74-round course every three months. The 686s, Security Sixes, and GP100s handled it better. I would rate its real world effectiveness as equivalent to a 9mm +p+ from that era.
Your assessment of the 110gr .357/.38 rounds are spot on with the E.P. Marshall studies of ACTUAL shootings from the 70's & 80's and Massad Ayoob's compilations of actual shootings results. The FBI studies, in my opinion, are slanted to much toward KILLING mechanism and not STOPPING. For whatever flaws the measurements of actual shootings may have, I believe they are far closer to the truth than coroners evaluating gelatin. They always bias their opinions to KILLING ability rather than stopping power, since mechanism of death is what they understand best.
In the K-Frame's defense, it was never designed with .357 magnum in mind. The K-Frame has been around since 1899. To oversimplify things a bit, the .357 magnum came out in 1935 and was built around N-Frame revolvers.
Ruger designed the Security-Six to be a .357 magnum revolver from the beginning. That plus the metallurgical advances between 1899 and the early 1970s allowed the Security-Six to eat full power .357 magnum ammo all day long whereas the K-Frame Smiths couldn't, despite being the same size. The 686 and GP-100 were also designed to be .357 magnums right out of the gate.
It's no wonder they handled full house .357 magnum loads better than K-frames of the era.
@@Kaelland Tell me about it. In the 80's I bought 7 S&W M19's. All got a duty tune from the same Smith. All got Pachmayr grips. One was reserved as my self defense gun and to this day has only had about 300 rounds through it. The other 6 have had THOUSANDS of 3/4 power magnum loads through them. A 3/4 power 158gr magnum load has the same muzzle lift as full 125gr loads. Every one had to have the barrels put in a full turn and the forcing cones re-cut. One needed a new barrel since the barrel SPLIT at the forcing cone. That barrel had to be set back and recut a couple of times. Interestingly, the actions remained tight and in time but there was severe flame cutting to the frame at the cylinder gap. The result? Doing a classic El Presidente with with 125gr Remington factory load and Safariland speed loaders I consistently posted times of 8-9 seconds..I couldn't do that with any other revolver save possibly the security 6, but the DA pull isn't as good as the M19 Smith. The M19 kicks fast and more straight back due to the low bore axis, so the rise and fall is fastest of all. The smooth DA pull helps keep groups tight.
@@Kaelland Meant to say the forcing cones of ALL six were set back and recut MULTIPLE times, in addition to the one barrel that split at the forcing cone. Also, the flame cutting at the top of the frames above the forcing cones, although alarming, never seemed to become an issue. None ever failed on me at least.
@@Kaelland very true summary. On the other hand, many of those who had K-frames still coveted them and refused to give them up even as they were spitting lead all over the place.
I would love to see these tested "head to head" against the Winchester White Box Q4204 110gr 357 Magnum load. I think Winchester is downloading to more of a 38Spl +P+ level for the so called "Treasury Load". I imagine Remington and Winchester are also each using their own projectiles.
Your shows are the most informative AND the most entertaining. Keep up the good work!
Love this information. I carry a Smith and Wesson 686 , 3 inch barrel off duty. I like the 125 grain bullets and 158 Remington HTP Great ammo
This is the round I carry daily in a Kimber K6 3" for the very reason you note, i. e. low recoil but substantial punch. At the range, though, I still use 38+p to practice. The gun weighs 23ozs. and handles the 110gr load without stressing my wrist much.
I've been shooting guns foe over 40 years and studying ballistics fo almost as long. This video was very eye opening and educational. Some really good info here. Thank you so very much for not only the testing but the explanation about the 110 grain round. GREAT VIDEO!!!!!
I like the 4 inch barrel best. Good video.
I was impressed by these 110 grainers.
High speed low mass rounds always seem to preform quite well
4 out of 6 at 75! Good shooting dude!
Thanks. Once it gets warmer out it gets easier to get them all.
Thanks to Sam’s testing videos I now stoke my .38’s exclusively with Rem HTP 110gr +P SJHP’s and my .357’s with HTP 125gr SJHP’s. Old skool rounds that are still doing the job like a boss. 👍
Used this as my carry round in my S&W MP340 due to the light recoil. Because of the light weight of the revolver (13.8 oz) I did have some issues with bullet creep. I used my crimp die to apply just a small amount of additional crimp to the case mouth and it prevented bullet creep. No appreciable increase in velocity with the additional crimp so I don’t think pressure was increased.
Wow. Thanks for this one. It really hits home. As I've commented before, I carried 110 gr .357 rounds in a 4" S&W Model 19 and a 2 1/2" model 66 back in the late '80s and through the '90s. The last few years I laughed at myself for that but now I don't feel so bad. Not "ideal" perhaps, but for most face-to-face shootings, that's enough penetration. In my snubby S&W 66 they definitely kicked a bit less than 125 and 158 gr loads.
Anyway, I've been looking forward to this one. Thanks!
I feel like a good shot with it would do as well as a 125 gr. The only drawback might be if it hits a hard barrier, it's gonna lose some weight, the 158 and 125 might overcome it and still have 100 grains on the other side, but 110 gr gets iffy. Might be 60 grains left after the door or windshield or wall which is a recipe for low penetration.
I’ve carried their +P, HTP in my 340PD for a few years. Easy to control, readily available & no bullet setback in this very light revolver. I’m going to try the magnum rounds based on your video & see how it does.
Easy to control full house
.357 in a 340PD?, Ive had 2 of those and at 11.4 Ozs they are not a fun handgun to shoot with full house
.357 Magnum unless you like the feeling of hitting a flagpole with a aluminum baseball bat in the middle of winter, Recoil isn't so bad it literally rattles your hand, They're a .38+P gun chambered for .357, 110 Grain is not recommended and is even marked on the front of the barrel because of bullet losing its crimp from the same reason it rattles the shi* outa your hands
Good load but glad you addressed the forcing cone issue, especially if you plan on using this in the older S&W 19s.
Now that ammo is coming back, I have been seeing alot of odd-ball weights like these 110 grain Magnum loads. They seem a little light but your test shows that they work for social purposes just fine. I will stick to heavier loads just to make the 10mm fanboys nervous.
Yeah lol. Pull out some Buffalo Bore 158 grainers at 1,500 FPS. No one in the ballistic world wants to compare their choice cartridge to it, if it's not .357 Magnum.
The comical part is many of these so called 10mm guys primarily shoot weaker 10mm FBI and then talk about 10mm shoots so smooth.
@@Matteo_ There is a reason for that. You get a nice compromise, generally 180 grains at around 1000-1100 feet per second without the .40 torque and twistiness. Its a little below what Bill Jordan wanted for the .41 Magnum in a law enforcement load (200grain at 1200 fps) but its quite manageable while still being a good performer on hogs and such. And in my area, I have not seen either .38/.357 other than very briefly at a buck a round. For Range Ammo. [SoCal] . The 10mm is roughly comparable to .357, with a different bullet weight and profile.
I would not shoot heavy 180 grain .357 out of a K frame either.
@@alecswann7234 Been shooting 10mm since the '90s. And yes, I aware that it is fairly comparable to 357. That said. Powder selection can do wonders. As it stands you can drive a 180gn @1000 fps in a 40 at sub 28K psi. And that's a starting book load for one particular powder. Its pretty tame. Point is 10mm has turned into some d__k measuring caliber with vast majority shooting 10mm FBI loads. All while denouncing 40. Which I just find extremely comical. As for the 41 mag LE loading that as I remember is a 170gn at 12 to 1250 fps. And I'm old enough to remember when my PD carried them. 41 Mag is a fantastic round by the way. One of my favorites to load for.
expansion was amazing, good carry ammo
👍👍 Thanks Sam, appreciate the review
Thanks for watching!
Thanks. Good video. Thanks for sharing and take care.
Thank you, take care.
Your experience is showing! Hand loading might make for some good tests and interesting commentary.
Thanks. I have thought about it, but historically I suck at loading magnum ammo. Something about it where it's rarely right, loads will say 1,500 FPS and I get 1,050 FPS. I think it has to do with crimps. I load some mean .38's though.
@@GunSam Mean 38s are nothing to scoff at.
You’re a much better shot than you say you are. Experienced yes but almost as good as Robin Hood is with the bow. On your distant metal targets, would be nice if there was something surrounding the target to give some shot feedback. We aren’t ever supposed to shoot into water due to how bullets can skip and bounce, but long ago on the farm we had a small pool of water at the bottom of a steep hill. From on top we were shooting almost directly onto the surface. We learned a lot by getting the shot feedback.
Love you're videos Sam thank you. I carry this load in my 4inch daily.
Great video man. Think myself I pefer the heavy bullets in 357mag. This hole new lighter bullet thing crazy know with companies chasing fps numbers .
I bought a box of Smith & Wesson brand 110 grain 357 Mag SJHP's from someone last year. From what I have read they were rated at 2000 FPS and last manufactured in 1980. The blue and white box looks pretty much good as new. I shot a couple rounds to make sure they still worked, and they went bang without a problem.
Good to know, i was thinking about loading up some 110gr xtp. I'll stick to 125gr and higher
As always fenomenalan video.✌️
Having a bullet that light just smacking into something is a recipie for low penetration. Wouldnt be my cup of tea, i like the 158gr sjhp, but if youre worried about overpenetration that would be something you might consider. Thanks for the vid
I bought those exact bullets. Very expensive from a national retailer. 158 gr and 125 gr +p from a small dealer was much more reasonable price. I was firing with a S&W Model 28 with a 6" barrel. The Model 28 weighs 44 ounces and with a 6" barrel, recoil is managed very well whether using 110 or 158 gr. I noticed no appreciable difference between the two rounds. Of course the Model 28 is old school; no matter what I shoot through it, the trigger guard bangs against the knuckle of my middle finger making prolonged firing very uncomfortable. Fortunately, being a revolver guy, I believe in making each shot count so I don't have to shoot repeatedly. As for accuracy and confidence, I really like my Model 28. That said, I don't have a lot of experience with other weapons. I am at peace with having it as my primary home defense.
Reminds me of the 38+p 110gr from Hornady Critical Defense, except the CD is only rated 1090 fps from a 4" barrel. Goodness those Remingtons whizz along!
They may have switched powder, in which case they might have to stay at or above the minimum load. If it’s something like W296/H110 the minimum pistol load is 1992 fps (10” test barrel) for a 110gr xtp.
Was the recoil of the 110 a little lighter in that snub vs 125 grain?? Awesome video. The smallest lightest revolver I’ve tried that 110 load in was Ruger SP-101 3” which is still kinda heavy for a short barrel .357.
Yes, a bit lighter recoil.
Think the thing 110gr is make recoil lighter and pick up fps in 357mag
Flame cutting was the problem with the .357 Maximum when firing light bullets but I'd never have thought of it with the .357 Magnum.
That’s a nice round w/o the risk of over penetration. I’m surprised at the real world velocities vs what’s stated on the box, Lol.
Thanks for another fine test.
Nice test. I still think I will stay with my EDC loads. Beware the man that trains with one gun.
Back when I carried a S&W-66 2.5 inch I used the old Winchester white box 110 SJHP.
While the full-house Federal 125 were doable, the 110 was just much better for follow up shots.
They would leave pretty impressive permanent cavities in wet newsprint (the ballistic jell of its day) and burrowed almost as deep as the 125.
For a while there they were as cheap as regular plinking rounds, ah the good old days . . . ¬_¬
I still remember in 2003, my friend and I were buying some .40 and 9mm to shoot around with, 100 rounds of 9mm $9.95 and 100 of the .40 $18.95. I still remember being a teenager in 1995 and buying the brick of 550 .22's for $8.97
I reload. In my tests the 110 are perfect for short barrels and you don't need to worry about pass through. Especially when you load these in a 38sp++ Awesome results. I use Ruger SP101 2 inch and a Ruger GP100 4 inch. On a different subject. I was reading where in the 5.56 boat tail bullets were cutting into the rifling with the same "torch" effect you're talking about.
Looks like decent ammo!
Great video review. I just don’t know if there’s anything a 357 Magnum can’t do. I’ve never shot this particular loading but I have shot 110gr before and you’re spot on with the felt recoil in my opinion.
Someone at Remington has some explaining to do. I know Winchester downloads their 110 magnum for good reason.
That ammo IS faster than R-P I tested back in the day , or current WWB 110gr .
I’m on the hunt for a 110gr that can penetrate deep so I can load them up close to 1600fps out of a 357 sig or 356 tsw! If somehow they manage to stay together and penetrate they would be a nasty round. The tsw especially benefits from shorter bullets since it’s just 9mm dimensions. Underwood has a 115gr going 1550fps from a Glock 19 but they fall completely apart
Maybe they are trying to keep up in the market.. I’ve seen a lot of defense rounds lately. 9mm..
65 grain. 1730 FPS. 430 pounds.
Many others.. 45 acp at 125 grains.. etc.
Add some excitement to the .357...
next we’ll be seeing the 44 mag at 125 grains. Lol
Great video as always. 👍🏻
Thanks. I think there are 125 gr .44 mag lol. Like, lead free or something.
There shouldn't be any issue with hot 110gr loads in a rifle, right? I have a smith 586 but also have a Marlin 1894c in 357 and I have some 110gr projectiles that I'd like to try out with h110, get some silly velocities with an 18.5 inch barrel. Bullet setback and flame cutting shouldn't happen in a rifle id imagine
Looks like Remington doesn't water down their 110gr sjhp like Winchester. Good load where shallow penetration may be required.
Too bad Remington stopped making their 140gr sjhp.357 Mag
I think Federal Premium has a Barnes Expander 140 grain hollow point. I bought some for a relative, but haven't had a chance to shoot any.
@@tylermorrison7051
Yes, i have a box of those. Probably excellent for deer and hogs. Bought em before this ammo price gouging - they're probably $50 now for a 20rd box
@@Rampant_Colt I think i paid 40 bucks and tax last December.
my local Dunham's has the 110+p .38 special by the boxes.. but I haven't seen much data on them! I personally carry the 125+p version in my LCR because of your testing.
Yeah mine too. HTP in all sorts of calibers there.
Not bad impact shock for a rather bland hollow point
Maybe Liberty ammo will make some .357 magnum someday. I'd love to see that
If you mean civil defense from them, they do but it's weak for a .357 Mag. I tested but not in gel, rather bologna and water jugs. Mediocre performance.
@@GunSam i thought they only made one for .357 sig
Great video, as always. What was the muzzle flash like? Do they use flash suppressed powder in this load??
Thanks. I think the flash was a tad higher than 125 gr. Always hard to tell on video as often times, even if the gun flashes huge every shot, because it's so fast the camera even at 60 frames a second only picks up 20% of the flashes.
Taking my LCR to the range for the first time. I'll try some Buffalo bore standard pressure semiwadcutters and Hornady Critical Defense 38+p ftx. I bought some BB std press full wadcutters. Wish I could test them in ballistic gelatine.
357 versitility 110 - 180 gr
I have a box or two of that, so I'll save them for the rifle.
Your Taurus has a new grip!
Yeah but I took it back off. It was fun but didn't really add to my experience. I prefer the rubber grip.
@@GunSam What was the grip? LaserGrip?
Crimson Defender. Super cheap version of their laser grips. Manual activation. Like my first car 86 Chevy Nova lol
My 3 inch barrel 38 runs the 110 plus p rounds prety good
My 3" averaged 1,068 FPS with that ammo. Pretty good velocity for any .38 Special.
Great video as usual, I carry this round in a SP101 3in sometimes. Obviously great expansion, but penetration is probably adequate but not great. Makes me wonder if I should stick with my 38+p Federal Punch or some of my other heavier 38+P.
I'm surprised that the 125s didn't penetrate more. I'm also surprised that the 110s didn't flat out explode! LOL. I wonder if Remington advertised the velocity for a snub for the 110s? I've noticed in my reloading manual that the powder charges between 110 and 125gr bullets are not that much. Max charge weights, depending on the powder, seem to vary on the order of 0.2gr. At least that was 38 Spl+P. 357 Magnum takes a LOT more powder than the 38Spl.
I can't find the 110gr HTP stuff anywhere. I used Ammo Seek and one place that had them wanted over $2/round. I'm not paying that much! I do have a supply of Hornady XTP bullets. I don't have any 125gr bullets, but I have 110, 140 and I think a box of 158. I see a lot of tests where XTPs fail to expand much, if at all. I'm wondering if I can sling the 110s fast enough to expand a bit out of a 1 7/8ths inch barrel. I wish FTX bullets were available. I've only seen them in 140gr weight and I don't want those. I'm thinking that 110gr jacketed hollow points would do well at CIP pressure levels in 38 Spl. If I can run the 110gr XTPs out at 1100fps, perhaps they can expand properly. Max charge for Unique is listed at 6.2gr. Maybe 6.5gr will get me there with CCI 550 primers. I want to test the CCI 450 primers too to see if they ignite reliably. Primers are hard to find right now. But I do have some pre-covid stock.
I remember reading Remington's information on 110 gr in the past, but it is now gone for the 110 gr .357 Mag. I still remember that for 9mm, .45 and .357 Mag/.38 they list 4" for all of it. I found that especially interesting that they didn't list 5" for the .45 auto.
I found 1,000 pack cases and 100 pack boxes for CCI 500's being stocked at my local store a couple weeks ago, and only like $80 for the 1,000. I only got three 100 packs lol. Looking back I should have done like my kid, Cliff bar peanut butter banana has been out for months, we see it yesterday she throws two cases in the cart lol.
110 gr XTP's definitely need some juice. I think I did get 125's to expand in a bologna test at just 950 FPS, but I bet in gel they would not. I know for a fact that 125 XTP at 850 FPS does not expand. For 110 gr I think you might need more than 950 to expand, but i'm not sure. 1,100 would probably work.
@@GunSam You probably should have picked up a case of those primers.
I'm hoping the XTPs will work. They seem to want speed. Lots of speed. I don't think I have a shortage of brass! If there is one serious advantage of a revolver over an auto, it's not throwing away precious brass!
Try wrapping your trigger finger in masking tape or duct tape to prevent pinching?
I mean, if it were a problem with me maybe. But my S&W's and Ruger's do not have this problem, and I don't carry the Taurus, so it's one more thing to remember while filming.
US Treasury load back in the 1980. They were hot. I will pass on 110 357. 125gr is proven.
Nice review. In a modern cartridge, do you think bullet creep (or even bullet set back) is still a real concern?
With some ammo yes, however many types now days meant for law enforcement like Federal HST and Hydrashok, Critical Duty and I believe Gold Dot, use sealants that act as glue in both revolver and semi auto loads, so in that case not really.
where do you buy the ammo
I buy most of my ammo online.
3,786fps is a great velocity from a short barrel! Great squirrel load!
Oh I know, same energy and velocity/weight as the gun I took my first deer with, .270 Weatherby Magnum. Just think, that 3,500 ft lbs energy in a 2" would have to match a .50 BMG in a rifle. Wait, nm that's a 9mm that can do all that.
@@GunSam I think you are referring to Buffalo Bore's 90gr 9x19mm +P++++++ loading.
Yeah, but it's 9x190. Cartridge takes up most of the 18" barrel, got a few inches of bullet travel to work with.
If you had to pick 1 357 load for self defense what would it be? I'm currently carrying the 38 special lite 90gr ftx, because it was the only thing available local. But I think I'd like somewhere around a 158gr 357 as a carry load, for when I'm not carrying my g19.
Depends on the barrel length and overall need, like if it's big game protection involved or not. If I had to pick just one in general assuming both will work, low recoil in both a 4-6" and a 2-3" and no bear defense is needed, I would say either the Remington UMC/HTP 125 gr SJHP or the Hornady Critical Defense 125 gr FTX, as both had manageable recoil from a snub and both had full power of 400 Ft lbs+ in a snub and 500 ft lbs+ in a 4". If I thought bear defense was needed along with personal defense I might use a 158 gr in the 4" to 6" barrel as this adds penetration, so maybe the Federal Hydrashok 158 gr or again, a Remington UMC/HTP in 158 gr SJHP as both are basic and do really well. In a snub i'd probably use the same if big game were a thing.
@@GunSam so I'm ahooting a 3" right now. My question is director more for 2 legged threats. I've got a pretty good idea on what the high penetrating dangerous game rounds are in both 38 special and 357 mag. I want a round for general 2 legged protection that gives a little more bight that 9mm. 38 special standard is meh... I can send 124gr xtp at like 1100 from a glock 19. I don't really want a 125gr at 800 from a 38 special. I'd rather get something in the plus p range or mid to lower range in 357. I'm also not opposed to a high velocity low weight round. That will expand and dump energy.
@@hunterhiker6101 In .38 Spl the Buffalo Bore 158 grain LHP +P is rated at 1120 from a 4 in barrel and is very effective on aggressive large dogs.
I had several failures of the 357 Hydra-Shoks in the 90s, prompting me to go to Federal 125 357 loads. No failures.
9mm the 124 grain +P Gold-Dot chrono regularly out of my Glock 19 at 1255 FPS. 124 grain in 9mm should be at the 1200-1250fps range for best results.
@@ryancawdor8083 the stuff I have is from freedom munitions. I buy it in bulk to be able to have my glocks and scorpions fed. They sit consistently at 1200 form the scorpions 7" barrel and I want to say 1100-1150 from my g19s.
👍😃✌️🇺🇸
10:51 new belly button
Like to see this against the jugs ..and see the kind of actual damage it does to the jugs
I wonder how the damage path and recoil would compare between Keith style LSWC in 38 Spl (158gr) vs those 110s. Huge velocity difference. Huge weight difference. And the 110s will have more energy.
It's always difficult to get the true potential view with non expanding bullets without an actual animal shot.
@@GunSam Yeah, but we can't breed clear goats.
I'm willing to send some ammo for a test if you'd like. I'd really like to see the 129 grain 38 spl plus p federal hydra shok compared to the underwood 125 grain plus p jhp
I’m interested in loading 110 grain Lead RN in .38 for my wife to use with a light titegroup powder in hopes of a enjoyable easy shooting round. Then I can make a light load that she won’t complain about because to load a auto loader I have to atleast make them strong enough to cycle but with a revolver I don’t have that problem.
In my experience, Titegroup is pretty hot and causes a bit of leading. I have used it with lead though.
@@GunSam that’s all I’ve use and with most only lead but I’ve been powder coating also after a certain amount of lead bullets I shoot a couple copper jacketed bullets and I’ve never had to clean anything. I’ve shot lubed lead and powder coated alot
Still no sign of this on ammoseek. In fact, they don't even list 110gr as an option in 357. Honestly I don't think they are performing as well as the 38Spl+P versions. Probably less well due to over expansion.
It's still at my local Dunhams as of a couple days ago, as well as this trash lol th-cam.com/video/hbaz6YAxxS0/w-d-xo.html
In the years since S&W made there controversial statements regarding 110 grain 357 Magnum many manufacturers have discontinued 110 grain 357mag loadings or changed there loading practices. If you review Hodgon's hand loading manuals there are loads that bost claims of velocities over 2,000 fps in handgun length barrels. I believe these velocities are possible to achieve and these are the loads that may have been damaging guns and gun finishes. Double-Tap and Buffalo-Bore have both discontinued offering lead jacket at hollow points in this weight. Both of these companies now offer a 110 grain Barnes DPX monolithic hollow point which has a sectional density closer in length to a 125 grain semi jacketed lead hollow point (Double-Tap claims over 1800fps in a 6" S&W 686 might be worth checking out). I personally never believe the statements regarding damaging gun finish's since of course firing a gun at all will have some effect on the finish but having seen old Ruger Super Blackhawk 357 Maximums with blued finishes which generally propelled almost everything in the 110gr to 220gr weight range at over 2,000 feet per second I dismissed this claim about the 110 grain 357 mag damaging blued finishes. I actually once read a negative review of 158gr lead round nose 38 special standard pressure ammo where the reviewer would not stop crying or making accusations that it permanently damaged the blued finish of his collectible firearm.
The full house 125 and 110grn magnum loads really shine in a carbine. Any chance of you doing some rifle tests?
I have been wanting to, just haven't gotten around to it.
@@GunSam My hunting load is a 125 Remington JSP over a compressed load of H110 and a small pistol magnum primer. 2300fps out of an 18" Ruger 77/357.
Not too bad velocity from longer barrel,snubs just suck the velocity down,never go smaller than four,still easy to conceal.
4" though, for me it's very difficult to conceal as I cannot put it in my pocket.
@@GunSam snubs will still be effective of course and pack enough punch ,but they defeat the goal of the magnum cartridge and waste powder as well as increasing flash and most bad things happen at night.
How does 110 grain compare to 158 grain. In 357? Overall?
Main difference is the 110 puts all it's energy into the target shallow, as where the 158 gr does it more gradual. Energy is pretty similar in both
@@GunSam I have some 38 special +p 135 grain gold dot 53921 How would that do in my Taurus 66? against .357 ammo?
So these loads would work well if I were to encounter a bear on crack?
I wouldn't want them. bears are big, you don't want to put all your energy in the first 6" then fizzle out. I'd use a 158 gr for that.
Anyone else think the 2" is basically standard pressure 9mm?
Not many people lol. I have ran standard pressure in what would be about the same "barrel" being a 3.2" 9mm. You get generally 320 ft lbs, maybe 350. Sure the external ballistics is similar as you lose a LOT of .357 energy in a snub, the .357 Mag is a lot more powerful of a cartridge, you just lose more than a 9mm in short barrels so it seems comparable to 9mm. That being said I was just shy of 700 ft lbs with a Buffalo Bore 180 gr hard cast in this 2" barrel. A good 300 ft lbs more potential than a short barrel 9mm.
LOL It's similar to .45 ACP. 165gr @45acp = 400flbf
He just made a fauls statement about the ammo an revolver barrel
Nope historically too little penetration
I mean, I get it. In general the "reliability" of a 110 gr to do much on a side shot or through a barrier would be low. But, if you made a front on shot 1,500 FPS with a 110 gr, I think the attacker would probably stop the direct action they were previously doing.
This 110 Grain is on sale online for $19.99
as its not a good seller
Man that's like 30 carbine hot
30 carbine is usually around 2,000 feet per second. That's 500 fps difference and that's a lot.
@@timrobinson6573 put it in a Winchester and test the velocity I bet it's close and 30 carbine in a revolver is similar fast
@@joemorganeatmyshortschannel With some .357 loads you can get over 2000fps out of rifle.
May as well be shooting 9mm with the power those only produce,
Corbon 9mm +P puts them to shame and I'm a .357 Magnum fan
Good load but glad you addressed the forcing cone issue, especially if you plan on using this in the older S&W 19s.