9mm +P+ Manstopper! Federal 9BPLE 115 gr JHP VS Federal Hi-Shok .45 ACP 230 gr JHP
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2023
- Testing the famous Federal 9BPLE 9mm +P+ 115 gr JHP VS the Federal Hi-Shok .45 ACP 230 gr JHP. The 9mm +P+ is rated at 1,300 FPS and the .45 ACP is rated at 850 FPS. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
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I figured people who trust my assessments might like to know this; I used the remaining ammo from this box of 9BPLE 115 gr+P+ and put it in my M&P9 2.0. That pistol is one of many home defense guns I use. I feel that confident in it. Plus, my walls are relatively thick and this stuff is like oldschool frangible HP's, so my neighbors would approve!
Sam please do Underwood’s 135 grain and 155 grain xtp .40 SW rounds. I called them, both are doing 580+ Ft/Lb of energy out of a 4” Glock 23. Almost 700 ft/lb out of a 5.3” glock 35.
I can get that 9+p+ for. 20 dollar's even for a 50 round box.
@@Gunsandbunsmma th-cam.com/video/GEnZ1iZ6ucg/w-d-xo.html
@@GunSamgotta do the 155 grain XTP next! It has a very high BC
@@Gunsandbunsmma I just looked at my stash of ammo I bought for testing recently. While it's not Underwood, there is a Hornady Custom .40 S&W 155 gr. It was one of the random ammos I bought because it was cheap. Got four boxes of Custom for $20 each. The .44 Mag 240 gr, the .45 ACP+P 230 gr .45 ACP 200 gr and .40 S&W 155 gr. I planned on a test with .45 ACP 200 gr XTP VS .40 S&W 155 gr XTP for a light for caliber comparison.
DeKalb County, GA PD ran this round when they carried the Beretta 92. They sent many felons to the promised land..
You’re the best ammo tester on TH-cam man, your videos always are entertaining and informative.
Thanks. I just have fun with it.
@GunSam I gotta say that 75 yard shot make you look like a rock star. Dickens leaned against a column to get 40 yard shots. Love all these ballistic tests. It helps me know I'm carrying the right ammo 👍
I’m a fan of the 9 mm BPLE. Great street reputation!
You can bet that many old timers in LE missed the stopping power they previously had with their magnum wheelguns when the switch was made to the semi-auto 9mm. This 9mm +P+ is the near equivalent of the .357 Mag 110gr JHP. Oftentimes effective with an unobstructed frontal shot on a normal size individual. Though still a bit less potent than the .357 Mag 125gr SJHP.
I have heard stories of how they did complain and felt under-gunned, even with .40 S&W.
@@GunSam As long as there are bigger calibers there will always be someone who feel undergunned. They have to learn that there is no magic bullet. There are cases where people shot back or werent stopped even by 44 Mag or 12 gauge.
I carry the Winchester rangers 127 +P+. That’s what my department issued us. I saw countless autopsies involving police shootings with the Winchester and other bullets thought out the years and I can tell you, I have never seen a deadlier bullet in my life.
That's my favorite round as well.
what do you carry ?
@@wholesomeking Winchester rangers 127 +P+ in my Glock 43X
@@concernedpatriot.2221 and running +p+ doesn't give you any issues?
@@wholesomeking no ! A bit of historical trivia. Do you know that Glock came out with their double recoil spring because of my police dept. After we purchased Glocks and issued it to 2500 cops, they studied our issued bullets and redesigned their recoil springs. Any Glock with the double recoil spring is fine to shoot +P+ all day long
I chose the BPLE for the department I worked for back in the 80's after talking to Evan Marshal. He recommended the 115 gr. round and we qualified with it and carried it in our Sig 226. I now carry this round in my Glock 43X.
You base your ammo choices off of conversations with a sci-fi author?
@@rifleshooterchannel208 you should read more, post less
@@chuckhaggard1584 Oh believe me, I read Street Stoppers, I’m a big fan of fiction.
@@rifleshooterchannel208 Sam's ballistics tests results aren't science fiction, if you don't believe his tests why come here except to make a fool of yourself.
@@user-rr5qp7ic4v Learn to read.
Im glad to see you test the 9mm +p+ BPLE. I had 2 cops tell me before that its pretty nasty. I bought 4 boxes after that. It was $.35/round back then and I didn't have money for $1+ rounds, especially for training and function checking.
I was first issued the 9BPLE MANY years ago at my old department and was very happy with the performance even back in the mid to late 80's. I still carry it today and am fine with it. Frankly, I prefer the 185 Hydro-Shok. I have never had an issue in testing with expansion. As with most ammo, shot placement is KEY!!
Likely the 45 jhp didn't expand due to the velocity only being around 850 fps. As paul harrle says in his videos " jhp bullets are velocity dependent" the 45 might have been slightly below the expansion threshold. I think in general it's around 900 to 950 fps before you see jhp open up, I may be a little off on that but in general I think it's around 900 fps plus
@@u45.- That is why I carry the 185 grain. Right at 1,000 fps in my gun and testing showed consistent expansion at 14 inches or so deep.
Law enforcement would classify that .45 ACP round inadequate because it failed to expand. The 9 mm did what it is supposed to do - expand. After the FBI's Miami shootout, the FBI concluded that 9 mm 115 grain bullets lacked adequate penetration. Your test confirmed the FBI's conclusion. So many agencies switched to 124 or 147 grain +P 9 mm ammo as a result. Thanks for another excellent video.
I never use 115. My favorite is 147, especially HP: bonded 147.
The FBI was using Winchester silver tips in the FBI shoot out not the 9BPLE not sure if it would have been the same results
@@davidbliss3220 the FBI did extensive 9 mm ammo testing after that disastrous incident and concluded that 115 grain bullets do not penetrate enough.
@@PassivePortfolios the FBI also created adopted 10 mm shortly after. They couldn’t handle it and went went on to the development of 40 s&W which was used by law enforcement for a couple of decades. Now the FBI is back on the 9mm bus so everyone is switching back. Go figure
I have carried this ammo before, and still have a box laying around. I remember reading many years ago that it is not actually loaded hotter that +P per se. Rather than loading it so the high end of deviation is within +P pressure (38,500psi), as is customary, they load it to an average of +P pressures. This means those rounds on the high end of deviation will actually be above max +P pressure, so they label it +P+ out of caution. It has never struck me as feeling overly hot. If you ever get your hands on the Winchester Ranger RA9TA 127 gr. +P+, you'll know what REAL +P+ is all about. (Edited to correct data & grammar.)
Sounds about right. People often don't see it clearly like you do. Like 9mm is 35,000 MAX which would make testing of pressure that might show some of the rounds of ammo in the pressure test hitting 35,001 PSI then 34,900 PSI then 35,100 PSI etc, so they are going to be safe and mark it +P. Same with +P+. You probably got lots of rounds within and below 38,500 PSI max for 9mm +P, but if a few go over, it's the top end so label it +P+ to be sure.
I have tested Ranger 127 +P+ before. th-cam.com/video/fAR7hHykK-k/w-d-xo.html
I like this video. The 9BPLE was the round that contrasted low FBI penetration depth with high real world street performance. If it hadn’t been sold as LE only, there would probably be more real world performance data available than just LE examples that really are sort of a narrow focus in a nation of gun owners. High 13s to low 1400 fps out of it is awesome. Border Patrol issued this round from the late 80s to early 90s along with 115 grain Winchester and Hydra Shok 124 in +p+ when they allowed agents to carry personally owned pistols. We had to qualify out to 50 yards. Had a bunch of 9BP issues for practice. They were tightwads with the +p+. Only got a box a quarter and had to shoot up the old box…
Wow - a massive amount of force on that 9mm +P+! 👀... Never before have I seen that with a 9mm.
In.my collection i have 9mm and 45acp pistols and ŕeloaded,tested over 44years. truthfully there is no 9mm factory or reload ed that can possibly equal my 45acp +p defence hunting load ,it's definitely devastating. i use star line 45super brass ,gt bullets 452 dia 255gr hard cast wide mouth ,deep hollow points normally 930- 950 fps , expansion 7/ 8 in across, retaining weights 244_256 gr around
There are heavy 9mm loads that come extremely close in energy to the .45 load you’re talking about. True, it’s not usually found in factory ammo because that stuff is so watered down.
Sounds like my kind of fun. I love testing all kinds of ammo and when you've seen some of the larger rounds in action, you know the difference. I have 9mm and think it's a fine round but nobody will convince me that it's as effective as some of the larger calibers.
Proof that proper ammo selection with your caliber of choice is extremely important.
That's right
Great test Sam! thanks for the good info. 9BPLE is a time proven load.
Thank you
Thanks for doing a ballistic test on the Federal 9mm +P+ white box LE rounds, impressive results for bargain priced 50 round boxes. Your results convinced to buy this ammo at $23 a box.
The "BP" in BPLE stands Border Patrol. The "LE" is for Law Enforcement. That was our issue duty load when we were allowed to carry 9mm sidearms. I don't know what load they're using these days since they ditched the .40 and went to 9mm. I retired in 2015. Cheers!
Thanks for the info!
I saw that Hornady won the federal Ammo contract the last time around and it was for their 124gr +P "Critical Duty" round Not the civilian "Critical Defense" It actually outperformed the 40 cal rounds. So many federal agencies have switched from from 40 to 9mm with that new round. It had the best barrier penetration and depth in the gel, thru each barrier they use.
I carried this round in a G17 and a G19 and remember “old patrol” stories that weren’t so old at the time (early 90s). I’d also heard the BP stood for Border Patrol but at the time, never saw any need to follow that up. The patrol was running bandit trams in San Diego at the time and there were stories of how the 9BPLE became an issue round because of those efforts. I’m guessing the round was adopted circa 1987-88. I remember them saying team member were required to carry their issue revolver as primary and a semi auto as backup. Some carried Browning Hi Powers, but the patrol narrows personally owns 9s down to Glocks (17-19) , Sigs (225-226 and 220 in 45) and the Walter P7M13 by 1990 when I came on board.
Those 9s crack like a 357M
GS. Always a good and interesting video/comparison. Thanks again for sharing and for all the time and work you put into these videos. Take care.
I love the 45, but it does require some extra care and attention when selecting ammunition.
@17:12 you tested 9mm Silvertips a long time ago , did about 11 " . In that test you said that was short . I agree with you , to expand fast is a good thing , even if you end up a little short . More often the fail is they won't open .
Cool test. Nice results.
Thank you for your testing 🙏
Keep the videos coming!
.45 is already expanded so to speak it doesn't need more. That is a big hole. As long as it stops it is good so less is more with big lead. FMJ at 600 fps is very effective. The British used that load in their big Webley's. Only it was not jacketed. No need.
The Mk II .455 Webley 265 grain bullet was more effective than the .45 LC 255 grain in the Thompson LaGarde test on cattle. The all lead bullet was found to be very devastating. In WWI, the Webley earned a reputation as a man stopper.
The 9mm has 50% More ft/lbs ... and as Paul say's ... That's a Lot More ! I think a 45 with light weight > Win HE 185gr HP , close to the same ft/lbs would expand quickly .
There are +P 185-200 grain .45 ACP loads which reliably expand. I believe Speer used to make one at 200 grains and maybe it still does. Not sure if it was +P or not but all the gun writers said it was the top dog for a .45 ACP loading.
Wonder how much more speed this 45 load would need before it stopped acting like a FMJ...
Ft lbs energy means nothing. Momentum is more important. I’ll take a heavy round that moves slow and delivers less energy than a fast high energy round any day.
I think the jell will not always play well with some HPs . I checked Lucky Gunner , he did not test this round . They had Hydrashock that did not expand & not long ago Sam did the same test or worse & they did expand well . Lucky Gunner had Ranger T that did very well & when Sam did the test , it didn't expand . I have seen many tests done with Ranger T 230gr that did perfect >> 1" . I don't know about that Fed Hi-Shok Round . I have seen 185 gr from Rem & Fed that looked just like that , that did well . @@exothermal.sprocket
@@exothermal.sprocket the manufacturer should have tested the bullet to find out before loading the ammo.
I've used 9BPLE in my HD 9mm for over 20 years, this behavior is typical of gel tests with it. They're like tiny little grenades.
Great video. Great info.
The 9BPLE load and the CorBon 115 gr loads have been in my carry pistols for many years.
Quite surprised and disappointed with the 45 also. Excellent display of this 9mm. It looks like a decent option. Thank you
Another good one from the master!!! -Gunny T sends
★ "Very" good video G.S.! I like that point of aim and impact were on target at those two ranges for both. It seems they'll remain contenders for the shooters choice for years to come. Along with a few others, of course.
There’s 3 .45’s on your channel that are real nice in my eyes: BBore tac Xp w the 185 all copper, Hornady crit Duty 220 And the grizzly 230 That made the Glock jam 👌👌👌 💥
the 9bple did well on the street out of fullsize 9x19 platforms precisely bc it had nearly 500fpe. that makes it as good as nearly all major mfr .40s in the mid weights
That relationship between energy dump & stoppages would seem to indicate that "stopping power" is a thing, after all, & that the laws of physics don't apply only to rifle rounds & the big, scary magnums. In fact, it is precisely that relationship that lead me to my edc choices in .38 spl (underwood 158 gr lswchp standard p & Hornady cd 110 gr +p). I have you @GunSam to thank for that for noticing & informing us of that relationship.
Interesting.... believe it or not, back in about 1985 The U.S. Border Patrol authorized certain personally owned semi-auto handguns for duty carry in lieu of their issue .357 wheel guns. Forty-five and .38 Super were authorized, but 9mm wasn't initially since was significantly less powerful than the .357 / 110 grain issue loads. About that time we heard that the Illinois State Police were issuing a +P+ 115 grain 9mm for duty carry and we ordered a case from Winchester. It choreographed at ~1,300 feet per second, the same as the .357 110 grain loads, and was authorized for duty carry. Strangely, neither Winchester nor Remington would sell us the +P+ 9mm ammunition! Federal did, however, and I asked for a U.S.B.P. case head stamp. It is now 9mm BP LE. Does the BP stand for Border Patrol? I would like to think so, but...
The 45 can always be a 9. The 9 can never be a 45. The 9 has to expand to become a 45. The 45 doesn’t. It already is. The 9 will never be superior. That’s just reality. The 9 is sufficient but certainly not superior. Compare a 9+p+ to a 45 Super., a 45 SMC, they are the same caliber. There is really no comparison at all. I used to defend the 9 all the time when everything had to start with a 4 and I carried a BHP and knew it worked. But now, things are just silly.
45 sucks
Nothing against 9mm or 45acp. I prefer to carry smith Wesson 69
44 mag 2 3/4 barrel with hornady 300 gr xtp gets 25 inch pentration in my gel test
Hi gun Sam. Another awesome video. I don't have a 9,but I love my 1911 45 acp. My town carry round is Winchester xtp 230 grn hollow point. For woods carry I carry Winchester 230 fmj. That will smack a bear that wants me for lunch.😊😊
Good video !
Thanks!
Thanks!
Thanks a lot.
I can tell you 100% that the clear gel medium does NOT have the same percentage of H20 as the ballistic gelatin. YES I like it very much but even wet gray clay will allow many bullets to expand better than this clear gel. EXCELLENT VIDEO!
EDC this for years. Used to great effect while in South Africa.
My G21 was choking on hot 45 +p and 45 super ammo too due to the slide cycling too fast for the mag to push up the next round, but I solved it with Wolff +10% magazine springs.
I have messed with a lot of things, but never the magazines. To this day, I have no idea how to take apart a Glock mag despite doing it all the time with my other pistols. I may have to research that.
@GunSam Taking a Glock mag apart for the first time usually involves a great deal a cussing and sometimes a bit of blood.
@@castarritt I recall that I have seen Glock mag tools for taking apart before. But I do have like 3 mags that are no good due to the mag release wearing away the mag catch ledges on the magazines. I could practice on those on how to disassemble lol
A steel guide rod with a slightly heavier spring would slow down the cycling a bit. My friend put a non-captured steel guide & 20lb spring in his G21 for hot rounds.
These are literally both of my carry loads. Guess it's good I seldom carry the 45. Wow. I expected better. 🤠
The .451" diameter, isn't getting any smaller. Remember this!
Better than what?
At between 8 and 11 inches the .45 did more damage in the jell without expanding than the 9 did at 4 inches.
@@marktwain2053 that type of path is usually air being pulled in, so it looks more impressive than it is.
Thanks once again for the video. PS I see more failures with glocks in your videos than glock jocks want to believe can ever happen. lol
Old timer 45 man here, but I carry 9x19 these days. Ammo has come a long way since the 80s. As for +P+ loads though, I seldom shoot them, but when I do, I use someone else's gun. :)
Great test as always GS. From everything I have seen and read the best expansion in most tests seems to start around 1000FPs up to 1200fps for most jacketed HP pistol bullets. I think 45ACP is fine as long as its a very hot loaded round or a softer 100% cast lead hollow point would also expand at lower velocities easier but the hardness of the lead , or velocity may need to be adjusted. That being said there is so many good 9mm hollowpoints You can see why 9 is the most popular round and also allows a lot more rounds per mag. Look at the latest federal ammo testing and contract to Hornady. It was for their hottest 9mm, Critical Duty 124grain I believe it was a +p round as well. It penetrated more than 12" every time even after passing thru each of the barriers that are specified. (Not their Critical Defense "civilian ammo" tho.) Federals 45acp in Hydroshock always seems to expand well, I have noticed too. I like both calibers but 9mm is generally the preferred choice for most that carry , It just needs to be a +P good quality HP to be really good, in my opinion.
Thanks for all the informative videos. You have the most comprehensive comparisons on you tube. Tools n targets can't hit 50yd pistol targets like you do. Just got a X10,excited to try it and check all your 10mm tests
9mm +p+ is amazing.
Velocity Beats Mass
Might of had to run against 357 in 140 gr wow what find thanks. 🎉🎉❤❤😊😊
Hey Sam , Great job on your gel set up and testing criteria , when I got really serious in reloading " 1978 " we all used police incident shooting data to judge calibers. for thirty years the #1 One Shot Man Stopper was the .357 Magnum 125gr JHP velocity 1,500 fps so the shooting incident data seems to still bear this out . 45 years later and still reloading , I carry a Glock 4" in .357 Sig
that is loaded with 125gr RMR bullets at 1,450 fps. I am not sure if you are familiar with M.P.F. " Major Power Factor " reloading for 9mm in competition. but 9mm is commonly loaded to 1,350- 1,400 fps for competition to achieve equal foot pounds of energy to other calibers of competitors and that is my load for 9mm defense . Any way , many years ago an old man who had reloaded many years and even reloaded for the Olympics Bullseye Competition told me " Velocity Is King & Weight is Queen " and the more you have of both , the longer your life will be . Keep up the good work , very good video production also. R. Walters M.Gy. Sgt. U.S.M.C. ret.
The old federal no. 9 was king. .357 mag, 125 grain, sjhp, nickel case, 1450 fps. Lots of blast and flash. I think the +p+ 9mm was their attempt to replicate it in 9mm.
Well, I feel good about the 9BPLE I picked up for our nines - we don’t carry them but one of the house guns is a nine). I’ve been carrying 230 grain Golden Saber in my .45 (used to have Hydra Shok), but never count on expansion in those slow bullets. My wife is still a .357 or .38 Special gsl after all these years. Fascinating test, Sam. Run what works for you.👍
If you're carrying the old 230gr Golden Saber bullets, those worked great. Though the newer bonded ones(at least in 230gr) have problems expanding after passing through clothing. The 230gr HST is a great option for the .45 ACP.
I’ll keep an eye out. I bought the Golden Saber in 2017, so not bonded. @@cgsimons1187
9mm is older than 45 ACP and has a longer track record. 45 ACP 230 gr FMJ is probably more effective than 9mm 124gr FMJ standard pressure ammo and maybe the 9mm NATO pressure FMJ.
I think even a side shot into the shoulder with that 9 would be devastating. You're looking at shattered bone, multiple tissue damage pathways, dramatic blood loss... As you mention, depth in gel doesn't tell the whole story! I'd think a side shot, even if not immediately lethal, would be debilitating to your average bad guy.
A Liberal who can think well and likes GUNS??? Maybe there IS HOPE!!! 🤗🥓🥓🥓
I bought a couple of boxes of the 124 gr plus P plus in the white box at Bass Pro. They said it was overstock from an Army contract. It was a good while ago, and they might not have known what they were talkin about lol.
I would say they don't know what they are talking about. I could see it being a LE contract of some sort over run. I have some plain white box Winchester .40 S&W that isn't nickel plated that is Ranger Bonded that was I guess an over run I got a really good deal on. I think I paid like $15 a box for it and got at least 10 boxes of it. The dealer had the same stuff in the normal Ranger box and it was about 2x the price. I think that is nickel plated but whatever its the same load the same bullet.
That's my carry ammo in my glock 19. I got it at $12.95 a box of 50 not too many years ago because it was an earlier gen hollowpoint. But it was the Illinois state police load and has lots of real world stops. Unfortunately I'm down to my last 100 rounds 😢
It was a good load. It did well in the Strassbergh tests, In Iwba and Evan Marshall's testing. Not being bonded it tends to fragment launching secondary missiles. The last I bought was about $15 for 50 rounds. Clear ballistic gel does not give true results and what temperature was the gel?
Why would temperature matter? It's Clear Ballistics. If I had to guess, the Clear Ballistics was probably 60 degrees internally....which doesn't matter
For those that don't know, Make sure your 9mm Pistol is safely capable of shooting the +P+ Ammo !
Most modern Pistols should be ok, but some 'vintage iron' may not be... just saying.
Totally agree with you. My High Power (1991) claims +p is ok. I don't ever use it on that. M&P 2.0, yes. All day long. Read those owners manuals kids!
That 9mm spanked the .45
Is that an ancient box of 9BPLE or did you manage to find some somewhere? I have one box remaining from back in the day. If it’s currently available somewhere, even LEO only distributors, let me know where please.
The 45acp easy to shoot than the 9mm plus p plus.i take 45acp
Could you test the federal 9ms 147 gr, I got a bunch of them recently and was wondering how it compares to the 9bp I have
Bigger holes ALWAYS leak more blood, unless you get a CNS hit of course.
I'd recommend using Federal HST 230gr.
✌️🐸
The .45 Hi-Shok possibly needed higher velocity and a bit thinner bullet jacket.
So a Federal Hi-Shok .45 ACP +P might've behaved very differently than the standard version.
After all.
800+ really isn't really all that much in the velocity category if one is seeking bullet expansion.
Raise that speed up to 950 or 1000 fps??
Then one has a different .45 caliber animal.
But what I find most interesting about this test is the fact that in order to approach .40 S&W or .357 Magnum velocity or wounding potential?
The 9mm Hi-Shok's velocity has to be increased, and it's chamber pressure as well.
Which just puts more wear and tear on 9mm pistols and makes 9mm recoil a good deal more "snappy."
Something that 9mm fans say is an undesirable characteristic of STANDARD velocity and standard pressure .40 S&W or .357 Magnum.
I have some of that same 9mm ammo, but I don’t think it’s a good one for terminal ballistics after passing through car windshields, doors, and stuff like that.
I think it might be a good choice for home defense in an apartment though.
And some people poopoo on standard pressure critical defense. Wont be changing recoil springs back and forth to keep functionality at practice time. Its not that i dont trust the barrel or the manual, its that i don't want any second guesses distracting me if and when its necessary.
This load is hard to get these days. I know you mentioned HST and Gold Dots don’t expand as rapidly as this. Are there any comparable or better alternatives to the 9BPLE that are proven?
SGAmmo has the 9bple in stock right now. Its $29 a box now bout double what it was not long ago but they have it in stock on their site.
You should test AAC's XTP offerings in 45 ACP 9MM 10MM & 357 mag.. i have tested most myself and there 100% the best budget option in my opinion
The 9mm is the clear winner here!
I been looking at the hi-shok ammo for a few weeks now but I never really came across any in real life and wasn’t sure on its performance… I swear the algorithm reads my thoughts 😂 but I’ll stick with the HST’s for federal.
Sounds like a hot rod 9mm load. Im betting it might be rough on some guns. Wonder what ISP found as far as their pistols?
Another commenter just told me S&W model 39 and I was about to look it up when I saw this comment...lol
I for one would never use +P+ ammo in any of my pistols.
All those years I carried a G30, I thought I was carrying an effective caliber. That pistol has only a 3" barrel, IIRC. So a bit less velocity from the 45 further reducing any chance of expansion.
I'm finding some resonance with your shock and trauma assertion. That's bone breaking energy and it will probably also cause a lot of pain on impact.
Something fun about external ballistics is energy vs momentum. Momentum is the product of mass and velocity. It's going to favor a heavier bullet. Since action equals reaction, you will also get more recoil. Energy, on the other hand, is the product of one half the mass and the square of the velocity. Given equal energy, the lighter projectile will have to be traveling a bit faster. It will have less recoil. And it will give up its energy faster when it hits the target. Also a faster moving hollow point has a better chance of expanding.
I agree But only up to a point. (the faster moving bullet has better expansion) All the testing and data I have read and seen has shown most jacketed HP projectiles expand best from between 1000 to 1300fps Look at this 9mm round its right on the edge of being too fast and it exploded on impact with the gel, instead of expanding on the 1st bare gel test. (The clothing and fiberboard barrier helped it in the 2nd test.)
@@PatriotPaulUSA I honestly don't know how undesirable it is for a projectile to grenade on impact. Obviously that's going to kill penetration. If one extreme or the other is bad, that's where the fun of engineering a proper bullet for a specific velocity window comes in.
@@PatriotPaulUSA The .357 Magnum 125 gr SJHP works on the same principles as this 9mm round, and out of all the data out there - the .357 Magnum is one that not many people argue against it's 96% one shot stop capabilities as it has been shown to almost always drop a man with one shot from LE accounts. I have seen fragmentation with all of the SJHP .357 Magnum rounds I have tested. Having a perfect flower expansion, doesn't mean much really. It means it expanded. Grenade like bullet impacts also means expansion. All the data seems to point to that massive expansion in the first couple inches of a human target matters a lot more than slow gradual expansion.
People always say "oh this round dumped all it's energy when it hit, and didn't penetrate that well". That is not a bad thing all the time.
Is the buffalo bore 115+p+ still better? Wherent those rated 1400 fps
Yeah, I got something like 1,450 FPS from them. You can't really call them better as they often use XTP bullets or even Hornady HAP target HP's. They might work okay, but the Federal bullet is the same bullet with the percentages and all of that. You could assume the Buffalo Bore is similar in effectiveness but you can't necessarily know for sure.
I've seen bullets expand in the brown gel, but not the clear!!!
I would like to see how 9bp compares that we can all get.
But what if you need to pump rounds through your car door or window?
Its like the "energy dump" people always say, lower penetration creates higher energy delivery and higher shock to cause the 1 shot stops. That 9mm avg 45FPE per inch of penetration, its not bad at all, but getting over 50 in gel is much better. Over 60 is devastating. Still, we want a good balance with penetration.
The problem with "energy dump" is that's not how physics works. The projectile imparts the same amount of energy whether it expands & stops in the target or doesn't expand and passes right through. It's old folklore that will never die.
@@donwyoming1936 no one said that "energy dump" is the way that physics works, whatever that is supposed to mean. Also, are you saying that bullets will deliver the same amount of energy whether they stop or they pass through?
Every time +p+ plus opens it up more so less penetration. I like Gold dot or Federal hst 124gr +P.
Amazing how everyone shoots glocks low left, including me. I love glocks and they are my “ go to “ pistols but damn it !
User error.
@@rifleshooterchannel208 no it isn’t. It’s the design of the grip and trigger combined. Everyone I know shoots glocks low left and every other gun perfectly. I’ll bet even you shoot glocks low left
@@concernedpatriot.2221 I do not.
Sounds like you and everyone you know need to get training.
@@rifleshooterchannel208 your right.
Yeah, I have shot back to back many guns like M&P's and Glocks and revolvers, only gun that shoots off is the Glock. With no ill will because it's the only way I can describe what I have seen - is that girly-man hand people call it user error because the grip angle is fine with their skinny hands. If you have man hands, the meat in the palm makes squeezing the gun sort of tilt unnaturally.
Dammit, I’m a 1911 guy, now I’m going to have to test the +P+ load in my P365 with the XL Comp upper. 😂😂😂
There are better 45ACP rounds as GS noted. Regular 9mm 115gr HPs aren't that impressive, but the better brands in +P hollowpoints are much better, but harder to shoot in the popular small carry 9mms. The hotter and better bullet designs and types of 45ACP HPs can be much more effective and expand much more reliably. I think either gets the job done well by choosing the best ammo for each caliber after some research and watching some of these gel and barrier tests on the googletube.
When they talk about the "one shot stops" they never tell you exactly were the bullet went. They also never tell you if the bullet actully expanded.
Expansion is dependant on velocity. Try the 9mm vs a 185 45.
On the older one shot stop stats it's always body shots. While they might not mention expansion, it's not too difficult to see from testing what was likely to have expanded or not expanded. Like old school .38 Special you might not know, truth is some probably expanded and some did not. With something like .357 Magnum 125 gr SJHP, you could not convince me that one failed to expand in a body unless it went through a hard barrier first or something.
Any reason for comparing +p to non?
👍😊
RoaR
As you have noted elesewhere, Americans are getting ... uh .. 'larger'... uh ... 'thicker" every year. Those 9mm rounds might work well on skinny Europeans, but if your attacker in an "average size' American (circa 2023) one might prefer the "Bear Level" penetration offered by the .45.
If you're going to use +P+ you might as well move up to a 10MM or .357. Ridiculous noise, flash, and recoil for such a little more power.
But, if people are so cheap that they pay $30 for Fiocchi ammo rather than $35 for HST.....this is legitimately what I deal with on TH-cam daily. The general public is really cheap. Having a step up in power for someone that owns a G17 or similar, is for them. The idea of getting "a whole nother pistol" is an impossibility for them. It's good to have options for some people.
@@GunSam That's why I watch channels like yours, and a few others, for stuff like this. Some cheap options are actually really good, IE Ammo Inc, in a few calibers anyway. And some expensive ones are total garbage, like a lot of the auto remington htp's, even some of the "good" ones like Hornady XTP's. And even with certain brands there are discrepancies. Like a winchester silvertip only does half as well in many cases than a simple winchester white box. Also, never seen a good review of a Fiocchi defense round, not sure they make a good one. They sure as heck charge like they do. Keep up the good work.
It's too bad those people don't think about how much their life is worth. My 1st box of Hydro Shock years ago cost $35. It hurt but that's the cost to stay alive I will pay it. "You get what you pay for" has always been taught to me. BTW, I love the 10mm and 45 now. Great cartridges in both calibers are available, but I choose wisely. Thanks Sam for all you do.
Magtech has 95gr 9mm load with very high velocity. If this someone shoot next to you on a range its louder than 158gr 357 Mag. Its even painfull WITH ear muffs.
Hi gun sam.if I loaned you my Colt 1911 45 and you used it you would throw that Glock away.
The thing is: .45 doesn't need to expand 😅
Statistically it will drop a Man . Raise your hand if you have dropped a man .
n.j. state used 90 gr +p+ in the late 1980's
What's the deal with +P+? Most firearms manufactures ( including Smith & Wesson ) say it is "unsafe" and not to use it in their products.
That's why I wouldn't use it in any of my pistols. Might as well get a 357Sig pistol for those velocities & energies.
+P+ is basically a law enforcement thing. S&W and Glock and others know +P+ is fine in their firearms, but they also know if you shoot nothing but +P+ it can mess up a firearm. As a manufacturer they have to assume if they say something is fine like +P+, that some people will run nothing but that. If they said +P+ on the gun, some moron would buy 5,000 rounds of this ammo and mess the gun up by firing it in 2 days or something. Plus, while Federal and Winchester know what they are doing, there's no law against manufacturing ammo if you are a small company. I could come out with "Gun Sam" ammo tomorrow, sell it legally and call it 9mm+P+ and it's at 40,000 PSI and no one could stop me. So you can see how firearms manufacturers are going to say do not do it, they say it because of dumb people who will shoot 5,000 rounds of +P+ or buy Gun Sam ammo...But between you and me, Winchester or Federal 9mm +P+ is nothing. It's not so hot as to damage a well made firearm in moderation. Just don't shoot it a lot, don't shoot it in cheap guns like Hi-Points and only use mainstream companies and you will be fine.
@@GunSam The german Army did used +P+ in their H&K USPs for a while which lead to slide cracks. The ammo was desigen for the HK 5 but they thought it could be also used for their pistols, but that was wrong. And the USP is one of the strongest build service pistols, designed for 40S&W. But of course 40S&W has less pressure than 9mm +P+. The normal pressure for 40S&W is 35.000 psi
Hot rod 9's? I prefer hot rod Chevy's.
Apples and oranges. Should be comparing 9mm 115 gr +P+ to a 45 acp 185 gr +P+. Try Federal Law Enforcement 45 ACP 185 Grain +P Hydra-Shok.
A comparison is anything within the same use. I've had it with the idiotic "apples to oranges" nonsense. If all you want to do is watch free content and complain, go elsewhere
no, that is NOT what 90% one shot stop means
it means that AMONG the times that the person was shot ONE and only ONE time in the torso, that they ceased aggressive action with a specified timeframe
That is and what has always been, stopping power. What's the stats of one and only one shot fired, person stops the hostile act or falls down within said time and distance. So, considering 90% of the time that one shot did that....WHY are you 'correcting' me with the exact same thing? You make literally no sense at all.
45 super may have stretched the Glocks frame
I see more glocks malfunctioning than any other brand
.45, because the bigger the hole you put in a boat, the faster it sinks.