The Federal features a good feed profile. In addition to crush and temporary cavities, the Winchester Ranger also features cutting as a wounding mechanism
Another great test! Since my usual 9mm carry is a Glock 26, I will always pick a lighter bullet (115 gr) going as fast as possible, which is why I don't usually carry factory ammo! It is heartening to see these actually meet the specs on the box because they usually don't, with a few exceptions... Buffalo Bore, Underwood, Lehigh and Double Tap are usually right on velocity wise. For the last couple of years I've been carrying the Underwood loading of the Lehigh Xtreme Defender bullet and I don't see that changing any time soon! I use Underwood for all my carry ammo, no matter what caliber. I certainly wouldn't feel undergunned with either of these loads but I'd always pick the 115 first bevause the higher velocity of the lighter bullet gives it a little edge when it comes to opening! And personally, I want every little bit of edge I can get! Keep up the great work! Cheers, jc
In small volume cases for top pressure loads I usually think it safer to go with factory, especially when the factory performs as advertised. That both of these loadings in barrels just slightly over an 3 inches did so well is quite a recommendation. I never seem to run into good deal on the ranger ammo. So I have the Fed +P+ and standard load with 115 grain bullet. Usually the pricing is quite fair. I have decided for the G26 to use the standard that is the non +P+ loading. I am getting interested in bonded bullets and might also switch to those loadings.
I’ve seen several tests with the 127 grain +P+ when shot through a standard clothing barrier that either failed to open at all or only partially opened. It would be good to compare the round through the standard barrier material. It’s getting cold in most of the country now and people are wearing more than t shirts.
The 127gr and the whole Ranger family of Winchester ammo had and may still have expansion reliability problems. I will never carry Winchester ammo for SD, but their fmj stuff is good. Also with every other test of this 127gr round I have seen it only averaged 1250 fps.
tests through what, clear ballistics? that stuff is NOT representative and is really only for entertainment purposes. ONLY organic gel produces any actually probative results
Both rounds were great. I think either one would work well as long as you didn't shoot a lot of them. That extra pressure and slide velocity can't be too good for the firearm. Still a wonderful test. Thanks
Fantastic segments by this Guy, very well done young Man !! A question for Ur following & experts out there on the retained weight necessary after fragmentation & adequate penetration for EDC/Civilian applications ? Picked up some of a Winchester version of this, in Ranger packaging, RA9115HP+, & have only seen 1 video review(BunBallistics/not black box packaging) -B Well. 🤓
Another great test with equally great results. Both did an excellent job. Neither are insufficient or ineffective. I think I would lean to favor the Winchester but wouldn't shy away from Federal if price was right. Thank you.
@@AzAirgunner. It sure can be. I have seen a few gel tests in certain calibers on other channels when they fail to expand through "heavy" clothing. I don't believe you have ever posted a failure to expand with any bullet in any caliber in your testing.
The light 115gr 9bple was a big deal back in the day because it was the only auto round fast enough to get anything close to reliable expansion. However the 125gr 357 Mag was the king of the streets.
This kind of shows you, what to expect from the longer full size barrel at longer distance where the velocity is reduced to that comparatively to the same as from the shorter barrel! Great test, I need to look for some Winchester or Federal 9mm ammo. I have been using 147gr HST ...
@@AzAirgunner. , I had some PDX Winchester, 147 gr 9mm loaded up in my Beretta M9A1 pistol in the woods that day when a Bigfoot came out from behind me, like some sideways, side stepping ninja, as I first had watched him leap sideways landing like a ballerina on his tippy toes, then quietly setting his heal down beside his other foot before stepping out sliding up against the backside of a tree hiding behind it. He's quite the terror, holy terror if you ask me, as I said to myself "You've seen all you needed to see" As I thought what's 9mm going to do to stop that, if he decides to throw a rock? I instantly turned as I could imagine hearing , Tennessee State Guard's Lt Frank Hammer's voice shouting "It's time to move!" "Go, Go ,Go!" " You've got to get into position!" as I made my move into the thick brush and undergrowth away from the Carter Farm Bigfoot known as "Blackie " as my voice inside my head was saying Don't run, don't run, you don't want to make yourself become prey! " You don't want to invoke a predatory response!" Like how the instincts of a cat are triggered to chase the mouse when it runs... Thinking of those Tom & Jerey Saturday morning cartoons I'd watch as a kid flashed through my mind... I thought Now you know what people described seeing their life flash before their eyes, as I started to pray! I instantly felt a sense of calm once I'd made it to the other side of the creek listening for any sounds from him behind me, as I'd taken off as soon as he'd taken his eyes from me. I remember thinking this is what's written about in the Psalms... What David said about the Lord being his Hightower, his Fortress and his strength... as I could feel what David described as a "Secret Place" a "Hiding Place " in the Lord I'd entered in ... As I literally said to Blackie telepathically in my mind, " Your not the only one Big Boy who can turn invisible!" As I could sense his shock and surprise reaction hiding behind the tree still looking out tree peeking from behind it, searching for me, when I'd already "Gotten off the X " as Gabe Suarez says.... I was still praying, Lord don't let me run into that big white Bigfoot, as I was hoping I'd see him first coming unlike Blackie who's covered in Black hair. It took me over an hour to travel the hundred yards distance I was away from my truck... as Blackie had positioned himself behind the tree waiting between my truck waiting for my return in his direction... instead I had to got out , up and around him to avoid another run in. Fortunately when I came back through there he was already gone. I got kind of mad at myself for not thinking to get him on video as I was filming at the time I saw him. After reviewing the video I did manage to capture something black can barely be seen moving behind in between the trees , and when I showed it to people, they say they see him, what they think is his body, but zoomed in they don't realize that's only his lower leg above the ankle I'd inadvertently captured before seeing him and the camera image goes Wllie Wonka crazy with me nearly running away. Picture trying to move through the thickness of the semi tropical forest of the Appalachian Mountains in East Tennessee, now try imagining moving through the laurel as fast as you can, but you have to move as quietly as you can at the same time. I'm sure Blackie was hearing my every step. Their so turned into their surroundings and the environment that only afterwards did I realize I was between Blackie and those deer I was filming... He was likely after the deer and not me... because if it wasn't for the Lord Jesus, the Good God, I wouldn't be here if he'd wanted to snatch me , and be another Missing 411 statistic! Love your videos, they're a valuable part of what I consider to be the best! And they keep getting better!
I just watched several of your comparison videos and the results all look so similar to each other. Do you think you can rig something like a punching bag force measurer behind the gel blocks to measure the force of impact? With the bullets all just barely pushing into the second gel block, you could also use a single bigger gel block to save gel and gain better consistency.
AZA'a proprietary gel is worth a thousand words. Both rounds produced 357SIGGYish PWC's. Interesting differences between the Ranger's beautiful and symmetrical cuts vs the 9PBLE's more chaotic PWC similar to Xtreme Defender. The BIG question is...which of the 2 wounds channel types produces higher peak ballistic wave pressures?
The differences in weight are negligible in this instance, but the greater velocity of the 115gr preceeds the weight of the 127gr when evaluating pressure wave amplitude. The answer is the 115gr as evidenced by the higher velocity and notably greater cavitational damage. But the pressure waves with these lower velocities aren't what's going to be the make or break .... it's the one that imparts the greater degree of cavitational damage and that obviously goes to the 115gr.
@@TERMINAL-BALLISTICS "Method for testing hangun bullets in deer" - what you say isn't correct. Cavitation damage is not the decisive factor - the pressure wave is
@@bobjones-bt9bh No, your implication is incorrect and citing theoretical papers, authored by physicists who intentionally refrain from publishing in peer-reviewed journals .... doesn't lend a shred of credence to your claim. In contrast, here's some relevant excerpts from actual trauma surgeons/wound ballistic experts in the field; NOTE; The following excerpts describing the explosive effects imparted by certain projectiles exceeding 2,000 fps are exclusive to high amplitude shock wave dynamics .... The lower velocities seen in this video are restricted to pressure wave dynamics. "In the context of wound ballistics, high velocity is considered to start approximately at 600 m/s, above which “explosive effects” are commonly seen." "The underlying process called cavitation becomes clinically important at impact velocities exceeding 600 m/s, thus considered the most important feature in wound ballistics of high-velocity projectiles." "In the extravasation zone, tissue injury results from tearing of the elements most sensitive to tensile forces, namely the capillaries, and there is a direct relationship between the size of the temporary cavity and the width of the extravasation zone." "High-energy projectiles are associated with temporary cavities reaching up to 10-30 times the size of the permanent cavity, while lower-energy projectiles create temporary cavities that are relatively the same size as the permanent cavity." "GSWs from high-energy projectiles tend to result in greater and more diffuse damage, whereas low-energy projectile damage is typically restricted to the path of bullets and secondary missile fragments." Excerpts from; Gunshot wounds: A review of ballistics related to penetrating trauma (circa 2014) Gunshot Wounds: Ballistics, Pathology, and Treatment Recommendations, with a Focus on Retained Bullets (circa 2022) .
Your reference cites that handgun TWC is equal to PWC. This is patently false. Ballistic shock wave is obviously predicated on sufficient TWC amplitude. Your reference cites that handguns do not produce terminal shock. Statistical data proves otherwise.
Thank you, I'm glad u enjoy them!! I appreciate the support!! I have tested them in 9, .40, 10mm and .41 magnum. It has been a while and I think the only one's in gel are the 10mm and .41 mag, all the rest were a while back when I was still doing jug tests. I will retest them all again soon. Thanks again, I appreciate u checkin this one out!!
I’ve watched quite a few deferent TH-cam channels on the canik sub compact pistol and noticed for it to have a little over 3inch barrel it seems to always shoot averting velocities on the ammo box that’s most is advertised out of 4 inch barrel, they must have a tight chamber and good lock up so gases can’t exscape the chamber, canik has done something to it I believe because I’ve not seen any other brands with barrels around the length of it put out velocity like it does, have you noticed it compared to your other shorter barrel 9mm you got,
No I actually haven't. I know they made it to nato specs and a lot of ppl have issues with standard pressure rounds making it fully cycle. I haven't had any issues, it's been 100% for me with over 600+ rounds. But it definitely likes hotter stuff. I'll have to put that to the test though, sounds like a good one. I have a few different barrel lengths I can try. Thanks for checkin it out buddy!!
you demonstrate what few know- clear ballistics synthetic gelatin is NOT demonstrative of anything. it is irrelevant. Anyone talking about a particular round's performance based upon a clear ballistics gel test is completely misguided and foolish. ONLY organic gel is probative
Yeah, it's extremely rare for today's ammo to reach factory velocity claims from such a short barrel. Newer isn't always better.
💪💯
The Federal features a good feed profile.
In addition to crush and temporary cavities, the Winchester Ranger also features cutting as a wounding mechanism
They use to load em pretty stout back in the day…Good to see 9mm perform so good compared to the larger more powaful calibers 👍🏾
Awesome historical gel test given the age of that 9BPLE; would love to see it compared to current production 9BPLE (which now comes in a white box)
Bereli currently has it on sale w/FREE shipping.
Another great test! Since my usual 9mm carry is a Glock 26, I will always pick a lighter bullet (115 gr) going as fast as possible, which is why I don't usually carry factory ammo! It is heartening to see these actually meet the specs on the box because they usually don't, with a few exceptions... Buffalo Bore, Underwood, Lehigh and Double Tap are usually right on velocity wise. For the last couple of years I've been carrying the Underwood loading of the Lehigh Xtreme Defender bullet and I don't see that changing any time soon! I use Underwood for all my carry ammo, no matter what caliber. I certainly wouldn't feel undergunned with either of these loads but I'd always pick the 115 first bevause the higher velocity of the lighter bullet gives it a little edge when it comes to opening! And personally, I want every little bit of edge I can get!
Keep up the great work!
Cheers,
jc
Thank you sir!! I appreciate u checkin it out!! Plenty comin😁.
In small volume cases for top pressure loads I usually think it safer to go with factory, especially when the factory performs as advertised. That both of these loadings in barrels just slightly over an 3 inches did so well is quite a recommendation. I never seem to run into good deal on the ranger ammo. So I have the Fed +P+ and standard load with 115 grain bullet. Usually the pricing is quite fair. I have decided for the G26 to use the standard that is the non +P+ loading.
I am getting interested in bonded bullets and might also switch to those loadings.
I’ve seen several tests with the 127 grain +P+ when shot through a standard clothing barrier that either failed to open at all or only partially opened. It would be good to compare the round through the standard barrier material. It’s getting cold in most of the country now and people are wearing more than t shirts.
The 127gr and the whole Ranger family of Winchester ammo had and may still have expansion reliability problems. I will never carry Winchester ammo for SD, but their fmj stuff is good. Also with every other test of this 127gr round I have seen it only averaged 1250 fps.
Same experience here. But I can tell you the 9BPLE is fantastic. Carried on duty for many years.
tests through what, clear ballistics? that stuff is NOT representative and is really only for entertainment purposes. ONLY organic gel produces any actually probative results
Wow! Nasty fragmentation!
Right, just as nasty as the full size test. Thanks for checkin it out bro!!
Great video.The winchester ammo is my choice for my Glock 21 and 41.
Thank you!! Great choice, .45 is the only one I can't find or haven't tested yet. I appreciate u checkin it out buddy!!
best ammo tester on YT right here
Thanks you sir!! Very much appreciated, I'm glad u enjoy them!!
The Winchester ranger t and defender fail the heavy clothing test sometimes! Good test 👍🏻
Another GREAT presentation by AZ Airgunner! These real world test are the most worthwhile on TH-cam!
Thank you buddy, I appreciate it!!
Thanks for your hard work
Thanks for the short barrels!
Thank you!!
Both rounds were great. I think either one would work well as long as you didn't shoot a lot of them. That extra pressure and slide velocity can't be too good for the firearm. Still a wonderful test. Thanks
Thank you sir!! I appreciate u checkin it out!!
Another great test, thank you
Thank you sir I appreciate it!!
Fantastic segments by this Guy, very well done young Man !! A question for Ur following & experts out there on the retained weight necessary after fragmentation & adequate penetration for EDC/Civilian applications ? Picked up some of a Winchester version of this, in Ranger packaging, RA9115HP+, & have only seen 1 video review(BunBallistics/not black box packaging) -B Well. 🤓
Gonna comment as I watch.
Great expansion!
@@DeepSouthEdc Thanks for checkin it out bro!!
Another great test with equally great results. Both did an excellent job. Neither are insufficient or ineffective. I think I would lean to favor the Winchester but wouldn't shy away from Federal if price was right. Thank you.
Thank you sir!! I agree, I'm a big ranger t/sxt fan though. It is some nasty stuff for sure.
@@AzAirgunner. It sure can be. I have seen a few gel tests in certain calibers on other channels when they fail to expand through "heavy" clothing.
I don't believe you have ever posted a failure to expand with any bullet in any caliber in your testing.
Those velocities seem way off for a 3.2 inch barrel
The light 115gr 9bple was a big deal back in the day because it was the only auto round fast enough to get anything close to reliable expansion. However the 125gr 357 Mag was the king of the streets.
I'm still trying to find the 125gr sjhp 357 mag. As soon as I do I'll have a test up for ya. Thanks as always buddy!!
This kind of shows you, what to expect from the longer full size barrel at longer distance where the velocity is reduced to that comparatively to the same as from the shorter barrel! Great test, I need to look for some Winchester or Federal 9mm ammo. I have been using 147gr HST ...
heavy for caliber rounds pretty much suck. low energy; they just poke holes
Thank you sir!! Anything hst is awesome and always does really well. I will have a 147gr test up soon for ya. Thanks again!!
@@AzAirgunner. , I had some PDX Winchester, 147 gr 9mm loaded up in my Beretta M9A1 pistol in the woods that day when a Bigfoot came out from behind me, like some sideways, side stepping ninja, as I first had watched him leap sideways landing like a ballerina on his tippy toes, then quietly setting his heal down beside his other foot before stepping out sliding up against the backside of a tree hiding behind it. He's quite the terror, holy terror if you ask me, as I said to myself "You've seen all you needed to see" As I thought what's 9mm going to do to stop that, if he decides to throw a rock? I instantly turned as I could imagine hearing , Tennessee State Guard's Lt Frank Hammer's voice shouting "It's time to move!" "Go, Go ,Go!" " You've got to get into position!" as I made my move into the thick brush and undergrowth away from the Carter Farm Bigfoot known as "Blackie " as my voice inside my head was saying Don't run, don't run, you don't want to make yourself become prey!
" You don't want to invoke a predatory response!"
Like how the instincts of a cat are triggered to chase the mouse when it runs... Thinking of those Tom & Jerey Saturday morning cartoons I'd watch as a kid flashed through my mind... I thought Now you know what people described seeing their life flash before their eyes, as I started to pray! I instantly felt a sense of calm once I'd made it to the other side of the creek listening for any sounds from him behind me, as I'd taken off as soon as he'd taken his eyes from me. I remember thinking this is what's written about in the Psalms... What David said about the Lord being his Hightower, his Fortress and his strength... as I could feel what David described as a "Secret Place" a "Hiding Place " in the Lord I'd entered in ... As I literally said to Blackie telepathically in my mind, " Your not the only one Big Boy who can turn invisible!" As I could sense his shock and surprise reaction hiding behind the tree still looking out tree peeking from behind it, searching for me, when I'd already "Gotten off the X " as Gabe Suarez says....
I was still praying, Lord don't let me run into that big white Bigfoot, as I was hoping I'd see him first coming unlike Blackie who's covered in Black hair. It took me over an hour to travel the hundred yards distance I was away from my truck... as Blackie had positioned himself behind the tree waiting between my truck waiting for my return in his direction... instead I had to got out , up and around him to avoid another run in. Fortunately when I came back through there he was already gone. I got kind of mad at myself for not thinking to get him on video as I was filming at the time I saw him. After reviewing the video I did manage to capture something black can barely be seen moving behind in between the trees , and when I showed it to people, they say they see him, what they think is his body, but zoomed in they don't realize that's only his lower leg above the ankle I'd inadvertently captured before seeing him and the camera image goes Wllie Wonka crazy with me nearly running away. Picture trying to move through the thickness of the semi tropical forest of the Appalachian Mountains in East Tennessee, now try imagining moving through the laurel as fast as you can, but you have to move as quietly as you can at the same time. I'm sure Blackie was hearing my every step. Their so turned into their surroundings and the environment that only afterwards did I realize I was between Blackie and those deer I was filming... He was likely after the deer and not me... because if it wasn't for the Lord Jesus, the Good God, I wouldn't be here if he'd wanted to snatch me , and be another Missing 411 statistic!
Love your videos, they're a valuable part of what I consider to be the best! And they keep getting better!
I just watched several of your comparison videos and the results all look so similar to each other. Do you think you can rig something like a punching bag force measurer behind the gel blocks to measure the force of impact? With the bullets all just barely pushing into the second gel block, you could also use a single bigger gel block to save gel and gain better consistency.
No need for force measure. That's what the kinetic energy value is for at the target when you shoot through the chrono.
AZA'a proprietary gel is worth a thousand words. Both rounds produced 357SIGGYish PWC's. Interesting differences between the Ranger's beautiful and symmetrical cuts vs the 9PBLE's more chaotic PWC similar to Xtreme Defender. The BIG question is...which of the 2 wounds channel types produces higher peak ballistic wave pressures?
The differences in weight are negligible in this instance, but the greater velocity of the 115gr preceeds the weight of the 127gr when evaluating pressure wave amplitude. The answer is the 115gr as evidenced by the higher velocity and notably greater cavitational damage. But the pressure waves with these lower velocities aren't what's going to be the make or break .... it's the one that imparts the greater degree of cavitational damage and that obviously goes to the 115gr.
@@TERMINAL-BALLISTICS "Method for testing hangun bullets in deer" - what you say isn't correct. Cavitation damage is not the decisive factor - the pressure wave is
Thanks as always buddy!! I appreciate ya!!
@@bobjones-bt9bh
No, your implication is incorrect and citing theoretical papers, authored by physicists who intentionally refrain from publishing in peer-reviewed journals .... doesn't lend a shred of credence to your claim. In contrast, here's some relevant excerpts from actual trauma surgeons/wound ballistic experts in the field;
NOTE; The following excerpts describing the explosive effects imparted by certain projectiles exceeding 2,000 fps are exclusive to high amplitude shock wave dynamics .... The lower velocities seen in this video are restricted to pressure wave dynamics.
"In the context of wound ballistics, high velocity is considered to start approximately at 600 m/s, above which “explosive effects” are commonly seen."
"The underlying process called cavitation becomes clinically important at impact velocities exceeding 600 m/s, thus considered the most important feature in wound ballistics of high-velocity projectiles."
"In the extravasation zone, tissue injury results from tearing of the elements most sensitive to tensile forces, namely the capillaries, and there is a direct relationship between the size of the temporary cavity and the width of the extravasation zone."
"High-energy projectiles are associated with temporary cavities reaching up to 10-30 times the size of the permanent cavity, while lower-energy projectiles create temporary cavities that are relatively the same size as the permanent cavity."
"GSWs from high-energy projectiles tend to result in greater and more diffuse damage, whereas low-energy projectile damage is typically restricted to the path of bullets and secondary missile fragments."
Excerpts from;
Gunshot wounds: A review of ballistics related to penetrating trauma (circa 2014)
Gunshot Wounds: Ballistics, Pathology, and Treatment Recommendations, with a Focus on Retained Bullets (circa 2022)
.
Your reference cites that handgun TWC is equal to PWC. This is patently false. Ballistic shock wave is obviously predicated on sufficient TWC amplitude. Your reference cites that handguns do not produce terminal shock. Statistical data proves otherwise.
I enjoy your videos, just found your channel a couple months ago. Have you done any tests with Barnes Tac-XP 9mm, 45acp or 10mm?
Thank you, I'm glad u enjoy them!! I appreciate the support!! I have tested them in 9, .40, 10mm and .41 magnum. It has been a while and I think the only one's in gel are the 10mm and .41 mag, all the rest were a while back when I was still doing jug tests. I will retest them all again soon. Thanks again, I appreciate u checkin this one out!!
Your welcome! I look forward to you testing them.@@AzAirgunner.
I’ve watched quite a few deferent TH-cam channels on the canik sub compact pistol and noticed for it to have a little over 3inch barrel it seems to always shoot averting velocities on the ammo box that’s most is advertised out of 4 inch barrel, they must have a tight chamber and good lock up so gases can’t exscape the chamber, canik has done something to it I believe because I’ve not seen any other brands with barrels around the length of it put out velocity like it does, have you noticed it compared to your other shorter barrel 9mm you got,
Very interesting indeed.
No I actually haven't. I know they made it to nato specs and a lot of ppl have issues with standard pressure rounds making it fully cycle. I haven't had any issues, it's been 100% for me with over 600+ rounds. But it definitely likes hotter stuff. I'll have to put that to the test though, sounds like a good one. I have a few different barrel lengths I can try. Thanks for checkin it out buddy!!
Some short barrel guns less than 4 shoot at velocity you would expect from full size.
you demonstrate what few know- clear ballistics synthetic gelatin is NOT demonstrative of anything. it is irrelevant. Anyone talking about a particular round's performance based upon a clear ballistics gel test is completely misguided and foolish. ONLY organic gel is probative