ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2024
- The problem with this game is..................................................................
that there isn't a sequel and Microsoft is a strange studio.
Looking for suggestions for improvements for future videos in the comments.
/ orenclubs
/ orenclubs - เกม
I think it's amazing how much of the DNA of DK64 is in Banjo Tooie. The bigger worlds, the more conveluted quests... It just feels like Rare learned during the developement of DK64 that this was the direction they wanted to take Games in the future
I think their thought process at least at the time makes sense like how you make Banjo Kazooie better. Well you take everything that game did and expand on it.
I felt the love they put into those games, when I played DK64 growing up.
Until I FINALLY got to play Tooie in my late teens (U.S. problem, eh?), Dk64 was my all-time, undisputed favorite game ever!!
(It only changed when I got to play Tooie; now Tooie is my undisputed favorite, DK64 a very much beloved, deeply cherished second!!)
Yeah, I totally agree Tooie suffers many of the same issues Donkey Kong 64 had previously. Although, Donkey Kong 64 had done it much worse with the constant Kong switching. Granted, collect-a-thons can be fun, but Rare just went a little too overboard and it makes both games sometimes a chore just to get through one level. Kazooie just had the perfect ratio of collectibles, level size and mini-games/challenges to keep the game going at a constant pace.
@@mattb6522 The main thing that DK64 and Tooie are both criticized for is the backtracking; you have to only do part of a level, collect several things, then maybe beat a boss or whatever; then 3 levels later you learn a new skill, then have to go back to that previous level to use that skill...
(Of course, especially in DK64, you would then need to switch to another character after that, then do some sort of a puzzle or minigame... Admittedly, it could get frustrating (glares at you, Fungi Forest lobby mushroom golden banana!))
As a kid I just found Banjo Tooie was more satisfying, I loved the scale/connectedness of the worlds plus how much effort it took to get some jiggies - you have to be ok with being patient and spending time with the game. Guess its a matter of taste, the jiggy just simply sitting there easily like in kazooie wasnt as memorable for me.
This. It's absolutely subjective taste and nobody is 'wrong'. I love Grunty Industries for example. Wasn't a fan first time but as I got to know it, I came to love it for precisely the same reason. It's insanely convoluted and a lot of stuff is interconnected but once you start wearing down things one at a time the 'puzzle' of the level comes together really well.
There is a cheat code for double walking speed. Only really usable on the N64 version though because XBLA and Rare Replay versions disable saving if you put a cheat in Banjo Tooie that's not from Cheato
It's fucking lame that the remaster disables saving like that. I prefer Tooie and will still happily concede that the double walk speed makes the game significantly more enjoyable.
WHAT
@OrenOfClubs Yup, enter CHEATO into the code chamber followed by SUPERBANJO
The second word won't make sounds while you enter but will let you know if you did it right when you finish. There are several other codes as well, and you can even enter the ones you get from Cheato this way if you spell those ones backwards.
Unlike Banjo Kazooie, the special cheats won't risk your save file in Tooie
I looked up all the cheats before my first playthrough and I think I decided against using this one since I thought it would make some of the platforming segments easier. Maybe I should use it next time, since there's less focus on tight platforming in this game
@@OrenOfClubs Tooie tries to be a collect-a-thon and an open world game at the same time, this was before open world games were even a thing.
My opinion solidified after years of playing these games is that Tooie is better AND worse than the original game. It's a wild and bewildering mixture of both pleasure and pain.
Yup, It is so surreal
I don’t just like both, I love both tbh, I think they both have their ups and downs and are amazing games in their own right. The time it took for things never bothered me that much, maybe it was just because I was a kid with all the time in the world, but I dunno, it made the worlds feel so massive and alive if that makes sense, you don’t just pick up the reward on the ground somewhere you have to actually earn it. I think the fact that Grunty’s Industries is one of my favourite world kinda speaks for itself there lol, I just kinda find the convolution satisfying, every small thing has a purpose that works towards a greater whole.
I honestly think Tooie is the better game. I think it's Donkey Kong 64 without the rough edges. There are tasks that are quite tedious but I enjoy the fact that I am fully immersed in the environment.
I also second the love of WitchyWorld!
For me having to memorize all thar stuff and figure the best and quickest way to do everything on the game is just incredible to replay over and over again, but I perfectly understand why that is overwhelming for so many people xd
Love both, but I do prefer Kazooie's approach more having less walking.
i love banjo kazooie content and i wanna start making youtube videos so thumbs up for inspiring someone to make something
Good luck in your endeavours friend!
hey, nice video! for me as a die hard banjo fan i love that Tooie brings so much "lore and backstory" (for N64 era) to the table. i love the darker atmosphere and all the worlds. you should check out Designing For´s video on Grunty Industries, its so good! also the older i get, the more i like the Banjo Tooie Soundtrack more than Kazooies. i think both games do still hold up to this day and are really great!
oh my god its gruntilda
You're right though I love both games still and hum both of their soundtracks. It's been what, a month this I beat Tooie and I'm still humming the tracks to myself. I will definitely check out that video as I love both games
The only problem I have with Tooie is that Banjo is sooo slow. He was also slow on Kazooie, but since levels from Kazooie were smaller, it didnt matter that much. If you could play Tooie with the movement of Mario from 64 or Sunshine, the game would be 10x better, since Mario is way more quick and agile
Every time I play this game I now unlock the Superbanjo cheat so that traversing the landscape takes half the time and you can get a couple of traditionally out of reach jiggies earlier
Both games are great, but no doubt time has been kinder to Kazooie than Tooie. Back when you could only get one game for possibly months at a time, it was practically a requirement for devs to make it last as long as possible and cram as much as they could into it. A game being a commitment wasn't just acceptable, it was _expected._ In that sense Tooie was a great sequel. Now we're in an age of digital libraries, Steam sales, Game Pass, and acceptance of busy adults (not just children) playing games. People of today want to play as much as they can in as short a time as possible, which makes Kazooie's snappier pacing and shorter length shine brighter.
I think the key word is ‘convoluted’. Both BT and DK64 were plagued with having puzzles with so many moving parts, often involving some sort of alt control challenge that ramps up drastically in difficulty at the end. Like, it’s not enough to just get to an area and do something with your base kit, you gotta do a button mash or minecart minigame
In B-K you'll get an adventure while you're out collecting things.
In B-T you'll find some things to collect while you're out on an adventure.
How to fix/alleviate 90% of Banjo-Tooie's problems in 4 easy steps:
1) Introduce a new move at/before Mayahem Temple that enables Kazooie to sprint/dash extra fast during Talon Trot, whenever you want. It's quite fast but Kazooie doesn't change direction very well while sprinting, so it's mostly useful for long, bare stretches of uninterrupted land.
2) Make it so the View Totals menu actually tells you how many Jiggies you can or cannot collect right now, calculated automatically based on what prerequisits you have met (like what moves you know). If you want to be extra generous, make it so it tells you WHICH Jiggies you're unable to get.
3) I DON'T think players should be able to Split-Up, Humba transform, or summon Mumbo at any time. But you SHOULD be able to recombine, untransform, and un-Mumbo whenever you want. And to be able to freely swop between solo Banjo and solo Kazooie on the fly.
4) Add maps, Ratchet and Clank-style where it shows you what paths you haven't traveled down yet, and lables where basic landmarks are. I don't think you should get the map instantly upon level entry (it would ruin the exploration aspect) but don't be stingy with them, either.... Perhaps beating bosses also gives you a map. And Grunty Industries makes an exception and hands it to you early, because Weldar misplaced his map due his poor eyesight. :p
That's all you need! Banjo-Tooie would be 10x more enjoyable with just those changes. BT just needs a little QoL, and it would skyrocket in popularity. But I'm in a chatty mood right now, so I'll throw in some bonus ideas:
*) Move the first Klungo fight and the Jingaling Gets Zapped cutscene to AFTER Mayahem Temple, it's just better pacing-wise. It shouldn't take 40 min just to enter world 1.
*) Select your egg type with the D-Pad, and/or with a quick select wheel.
*) Increase the Warp Pad number per level from 5 to 8. One of which is always dedicated to the train station. (add a station to the 3 worlds that did not have one)
*) 17 Music Note pick-ups is clearly not enough, we need more of them to use as effective breadcrumbs. IDK if 100 is warranted, but at least 50 individual pick-ups, sure.
*) Make Ice Eggs actually useful by 1) having them actually freeze water, for water-based puzzles, 2) if you kill an enemy while it's frozen, it won't respawn, and 3) Ice Eggs fired while swimming underwater become large missle-like projectiles.
*) For the love of all that is good, do NOT make the goldfish fast swim ability optional. Atlantis is torture without it.
*) Have Jinjo Village, not Spiral Mountain, be the place where you have the option to relearn your moves from Banjo-Kazooie. It would flesh out the Village, and Tooie's Spiral Mountain is just too depressing to be a good learning environment.
*) Since people often confuse which end of the Glitter Gulch Mine river is which, make the river change elevation. Have the river drop down 3 feet every 30 feet or so, so players can look at the mini-waterfall and instantly know which direction they're facing.
*) Mumbo gameplay clearly needs an overhaul. It's probably not possible to fix 100%. But just A) replacing his lame stun stick with a much more impressive magic projectile blast and B) having Mumbo learn spells that let him walk faster and jump higher would improve the experience immensely.
*) Keep Grunty Industries, and do NOT simplify or casualize it----its complex nature is exactly why some people adore it. HOWEVER, recontextualize the level as an optional, bonus level you unlock only after beating the game. Make it something people are not FORCED to do. Something casual players will not even encounter. Recontextualize Grunty Industries as the ultimate reward only available to people who have proven they enjoy, and can handle all of Tooie's complexities. That way everyone is happy.
*) Recontextualize Atlantis as well. On N64 it was the LOST city of Atlantis----the ruins of it. Well that's boring! Make it the LIVING city of Atlantis, where it is not in shambles and where a thriving mermaid community is currently living in secret.
*) Introduce the Glide move earlier. Terrydactyland feels about right.
*) Introduce the concept of special, double Jiggy pieces that award 2 Jiggies when collected. If a Jiggy takes 5 million steps, or is unusually hard/complex, that should NOT just be a normal Jiggy. If they work twice as hard, the player should be doubly rewarded for it. (Making the complex Jiggies a separate item also lets players know which Jiggies to ignore if they don't feel like doing the complex tasks.)
*) Have the Witches fire their giant laser at least one more time, it's lame that it wasn't more involved in the plot.
*) Instead of Mingy Jongo being the Cloud Cuckooland boss, have him be an assassin who could possibly ambush you whenever you use ANY Mumbo hut, until you beat him. This would keep the original shock and surprise element to people who already know he exists, and makes Mingy Jongo feel much more threatening. Much more personal.
Wow I did not mean to write so much... This was supposed to be a quick TH-cam comment. Oopsie. :/
As I’m…ironically currently playing through the game again, I have been reflecting on my relationship with this game. Not only is it my favorite game of all time but I’ve ALWAYS preferred this one to Kazooie. I think, maybe the tone or look of the game always grabbed me. I love the interconnection that the game offers. It makes me feel like this is a WORLD (or Island) as opposed to some disconnected stages. I think, the puzzle box almost Metroidvania type of feel was always super gratifying. To line everything up and then start knocking it down to watch everything add up.
And I love the straightforwardness of BK. The charm. It’s a lot more vibrant. I think BK has better levels than BT. I just like playing Tooie more.
You have people who love Banjo-Kazooie, people who love Banjo-Tooie, & people who love Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts. I personally love Tooie and the N64 version of Banjo-Kazooie doesn't hold your hand like the Xbox version does, the N64 version doesn't save your notes unless you get all 100 notes unlike the Xbox version that saves your notes. You could miss one note and without following the other notes you could never find it, I couldn't find the last note in Click clock wood on Xbox but on N64 I had no problem because the notes lead me to it
I consider both as one giant, incredible game.
Banjo-Tooie is the better of the two titles in my eyes.
Kazooie is my favourite.
Good video! Witchyworld was my favorite level in Tooie as well. Yeah, I like both, but I only ever go revisit Kazooie. I've beaten Tooie 100% _twice_ as a kid and just don't have the drive to ever play it again as an adult. It is a major slog compared to Kazooie. I just prefer the pacing of Kazooie more with less back-tracking, less mini-games, and more condensed levels.
I understand that Rare wanted to make a bigger, better game, but a lot of it felt like needless padding. Some Jiggies just require so many steps to complete that I feel more exhaustion than actual achievement once I succeed. Though, I do appreciate Tooie's charm and the game both looks and sounds amazing for an N64 game!
Played kazooie and tooie each when they first came out. Love both but im a tooie preferrer. I love how much funnier tooie was and the raised difficulty felt like rare was respecting that i had 2 birthdays since banjo kazooie
The game being slow is really two separate issues, and both of them are a problem, but the 2nd one is far more annoying to me.
1. Goodies in the game require a lot of steps and many of the steps can feel like busywork. The alien jiggy in the video is a great example. The most annoying ones for me are ones where you have to play the same minigame 3 times, and each time is slightly more difficult. The stone football minigame makes you play it 6 times even.
2. Everything has painfully long unskippable cutscenes attached to them. The video showed the Mumbo cutscene where he levitates a stone, but cutscenes like that all over the game. Every new world you open you gotta watch a long cutscene. Every time you transform with Wumba, you gotta watch a cutscene. Every time you talk to Mumbo you gotta watch the same cutscene again. The most annoying that I recall is in Grunty Industries there's some screws in the ground you remove with the drill ground pound thing. These come in sets of 4, and every time you remove the 1st of the 4 there's a cutscene, and then when you remove the 4th one there's another cutscene of the thing falling down. How about no cutscenes and when you remove the 4th one it just plays a jingle and you hear a crash! sound. At the worst, after you do this for the first time one of the characters could quickly say "I heard something drop down in the room below us!"
Been seeing very small CC in my feed lately and glad you came up. Keep it up 🎉
Thanks Friend
We have resonated into the moments where we can support small content creators
There are a lot of elements that Tooie does better and while there are some elements that its predecessor did better, I definitely think Tooie is the better game because of the amount of content given to us, the hard work put into it, and the overall humor style of the first game is still present and just as good as it was before.
I think Kazooie is the better game, but I do also have nostalgia for Tooie as well.
Omg, the fact you label cloud cuckooland as top-tier world is jarring to me. That level gave me psychotic trauma as a kid - I hated it. Other than that, I agree with your opinion.
I knew people would say this. I just loved how simple it was to get around and the freedom of flying everywhere. Canary Mary is a piece of shit tho
Correct opinion. Tooie tries to do too much, but at least it does it well. Interesting to think about it similar to Ocarina of Time, where Kazooie is more like Mario 64. Most people are going to prefer the more straightforward experience.
Funnily enough I've beaten -Tooie faster by 4 hours than -Kazooie lol
Honestly tho I enjoyed -Tooie so much more, partially cuz it didn't reset the notes count on death _seriously Rusty Bucket Bay Engine Room why do you exist_ but mostly cuz the worlds were absolutely amazing
You're not exploring isolated worlds in an evil witch's castle(?), you're travelling the whole island and visiting lively and wildly different places, some stuck in the past and some just funky
And the interconnectivity only adds to the experience, in fact I liked walking through the island so much I didn't even use the Silos for fast travel, if anything I wish more 3D platformers did the -Tooie level of interconnectivity between worlds
The only thing I'd wish is making Terrydactyland and Grunty Industries bit less confusing, spent like 2h in each just learning the layout
I LOVE both games because the first one is amazing and the sequel is a sequel DONE RIGHT!! It's different sure but that is why I love it so much! And I love how connected the world is!
It's too f***ing awesome that's the problem.
so true
I would just like to point out that as great of a game BK is, its not perfect. Need a bring up Rusty "Fuck it" Bay? Still proud I managed to 100% that game back in the N64 days WITHOUT the note saving that the xbox has. In BT's case, its the one jiggy I ALWAYS save for last...Canary Mary in Cloud Cuckoo Land. I couldn't even get that jiggy until 3 years later when I was older and finally understood what causes Mary to rubberband.
Witchyworld really is Peak
I totally agree: Witchyworld is the absolute GOAT!!
I think Tooie was a natural level up in terms of difficulty and I think the kids who played Kazooie grew up to be ready to handle Tooie 2-3 years later
Did you get the Ice key to be able to work? transferring it to Kazooie
I personally prefer Banjo-Tooie over Banjo-Kazooie, but personally it's because I rather play a game that is more focused on adventure rather than platforming. Don't get me wrong, I love platformers and I absolutely love retro games, especially from the N64 and Gamecube era. Sm64, banjo-kazooie, etc. They are all fun as well, however Tooie feels more like a big exploration/adventure game kinda leaning more into more of a legend of zelda vibe/direction.
Anyways, interesting points talked about in the video, clearly Tooie has a much more different approach than Kazooie.
Lastly, it's nice to see another small CC starting their youtube journey, good luck with your endeavors.
I absolutely get what you mean! Liking adventure games will absolutely make you have a higher chance of liking Tooie more, and there's nothing wrong with that, as the game is great!
Thanks for the comment and have a great day friend
I love tooie. So much. I love how big and open it is.
A quote from El Dorado. "Both. Both is good." They are good by their own merits. I agree strongly though that Grunty Industries took WAY too long to beat. The only level in the game that can take over an hour.
For me, Banjo Kazooie is not an enjoyable game. Meanwhile, I played the shit out of Banjo Tooie. And then I actually found a way to make Banjo Kazooie very enjoyable for me - save states in an emulator. I noticed that the things I really hated about BK was
1. the amount of time it can take to get back to a specific challenge and
2. notes not being saved and having to be recollected because of that score thing
Once I used save states and the game was more about overcoming platforming challenges instead of tediously re-gathering all the nonsense once I failed if that resulted in death, I really really liked what BK offered in its worlds.
Also, one thing imo BK really dropped the ball on vs. e.g. Super Mario 64 was that iirc, you needed like 900 out of 1000 notes to challenge the final boss, meaning you could only skip one stage if you got everything in every other stage, or just beat 90% of the game. Super Mario needed 80/120 or 150 (remake), and that gives soo. muuch. flexibility which I love when i do different kinds of runs, and imo that also lets Super Mario 64 stave off "burnout" way easier than having to complete 90% of BK every time you play it.
Banjo Tooie is imo just DK64 but fixed - not a stupid amount of collectibles locked behind specific characters and all that nonsense, and the sheer connectedness making it feel like a 3D metroidvania? Call me biased because I love metroidvanias, but it suckered me in. I'm also a huge sucker for gimmick levels, so the different things Banjo Tooie tried out and threw you into? Loved it. I actually love it more than DK64, Banjo Kazooie, or any other N64 platformer, yes even the iconic Mario 64.
before you flipped your critique into a praise I was thinking man this guy doesnt like adventure. I never knew there were people that didn't like Tooie until the last few years. I think this is a newer phenomenon where the bigger levels don't really impress like they used to now that we have crazy hardware capabilities and draw distances. I hear this a lot more frequently about Tooie nowadays but I never used to hear it. The thing I remember as a criticism was that the fairytale aspect from Kazooie was lessened without the characters rhyming. People used to always bring that up as a point of possible contention.
Banjo Kazooie, I'd the game where I could start playing, and 5 hours later, I'm on my 75th Jiggy and still immersed in the game.
Tooie was the opposite because it was too large for its own good, and every single jiggy required a lot of backtracking. It's not a bad game, but it does become tedious.
I just made a Defending DK64 video. And Tooie is next on my list. Seeing your video makes me want to push it out faster. lol
Good video tho sir!
DK64 deserves a good defence. Thanks friend!
@@OrenOfClubs I appreciate having discussions about these games! The more the better!
In my Opinion, Banjo Tooie is amazing for what it is. It only depends on the mood what i want to play, either the easier Banjo Kazooie were i dont even have to think about what i have to do, or the more complex Banjo Tooie were i want to challenge my memory were i have to go first. So it is a positive sideeffect, that both games differenciate from each other.
This is literally why Banjo-Tooie was the superior game.
Great video!! As a kid I loved banjo tooie since you could really sink time in the game and playing it. The adventure lasted very long, and as a kid it felt like infinite replayability :)
Thanks! Tooie is really such a long game its surprising sometimes.
i like bolth games
There is a double speed cheat.
Inca-monka baby.
Personally I consider Banjo-Tooie the superior game. I just love the worlds and their themes, the interconnectivity, the new moves and gameplay elements, its atmosphere and so on. Also its graphics were top notch for N64 standards, especially with its dynamic lighting.
It's basically an open world game on the N64. And a lot of fun.
The only two weakpoints are its story and its performance.
I would've loved to see more evil doings of the witches, to make their presence more prominent.
And the performance is pretty bad, due to going way over what the N64 could handle.
There is no problem. Banjo-Tooie is perfect. The best video game sequel of all time.
I grew up with bajo kazooie, never played tooie, tried tooie with the rare collection but couldnt get latched onto it, but your video makes me want to give it a second chance. Maybe i just wanted it to be ine thing but it wasnt that so i was turned off. But the way youre explaining things makes me think its doable now but i just hit that powerup problem you spoke of and that seems like a big issue.
I hope you enjoy the game! it is good. I feel like it isn't too bad if you do what I do and just chill and take it slow while trying to get the power ups first. There is also a cheat code that makes Banjo go double speed apparently if it really gets that bad for you.
I really like your style, man.
Also Kazooie>Tooie. Just couldn't get into Tooie.
Thanks :)
I don't know if you watched a speedrun of Banjo Tooie but they found ways to cut out a lot of backtracking you have to do.
As someone who played through and 100% Kazooie on an emulator (Hopefully there's no shame in that), I picked up Tooie soon thereafter. I then stopped Tooie once I got to Witchyworld and beyond, and still haven't completed any of Grunty Industries, Hailfire Peaks, or Cloud Cuckooland. In my personal opinion, I think Rare went too hard with Tooie. The scale is incredible, but it's tough to remember where everything is. What I think is funnier is that people harp on DK64 (which came out a year before Tooie) for having large worlds when Tooie's worlds are even bigger.
I hate hearing people rag on DK64 for things that Banjo Tooie is guilty of but to even greater extent. I don't know why always BT gets a free pass.
@@jacksonpercy8044 There's a TH-camr called CloudConnection, who made two videos on how you can reduce backtracking in Tooie and DK 64.
I will not stand for this Grunty Industries slander (Yes I am biased).
I kneel to the grunty industries enjoyer. I just can't compare
Played both, Tooie is far superior. A lot of people prefer Kazooie, mainly due to nostalgia and the fact that it was the first game in the series that they played.
my problem with tooie is that there are no mods for it.
oh SURE, kazooie has a TRUCKLOAD of mods. has a, stiggin', MOD SUPPORT PROGRAM. but not tooie.
and I don't get WHY. remove levels from the equation, tooie has the far better banjo-kazooie. they can store a billion egg types, they got the drill beak, more shoes, the split pad, the kazooie rifle, better swimming, the ability to GRAB LEDGES.
and yet, no mods. and I say, WHY.
Witchyworld IS the best and I also like Banjo Tooie more. Coincidence? I think not.
Witchyworld top tier
W
hey!
hey!
Yooka Laylee continues this trend into uncomfortable territory
I immediately thought of Yooka Laylee while making this video. They tried to make a spiritual successor to Tooie but made the bad parts worse. The worlds are gigantic in size for a platformer
Actually, not enough. For one, there were no connections between the worlds like what they had with Banjo-Tooie. Each world in Yooka Laylee was isolated.
@@CalebSteele I was thinking mostly about how the game world is expansive and your movement options for traversing it make you feel slow. Meanwhile something like Orbo's Odyssey can make a big world feel much smaller by giving you really quick movement options.
@@Kryptnyt I recommend Demon Turf Neon Splash, it's the other 3d platformer that Platonic published.
@@orangeslash1667 Thanks for the recommendation. I don't know if I vibe with the artstyle though.
Tooie aged poorly. In 2000 there was a novelty in game worlds that were huge. Now there are so many games with huge, empty over worlds. The novelty is completely gone.
honestly I prefer BK and I just found it more fun to play. they're right about how BT can become tedious. maybe some of the issue is people playing K first and expecting T to be just like it. if you played them in reverse order maybe you'd feel differently.
and what in the unholy hell crawled up everyone's asses? preference is one thing, but having a tantrum on a video you could just.... close, is another.
Conker's bad fur day is better than both. So similar to these games in lots of ways. But holds up better as an adult.
I still have never played that somehow I really should
The games aren't called "Banjo and Kazooie" and "Banjo and Tooie". It's just Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie.
He was making a joke. He says it right all over the review
just say u arent good at the game