Romulan Lore : Betraying your Country, but not your Kinsman
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 พ.ค. 2019
- What's up Lore Masters,
Today we take a look at 'The Defector' from The Next Generation. What did you think of this video?
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James Sloyan deserved an Emmy for best guest actor for that episode
@2:52 "Loyalty to the nation Always, Loyalty to the Government, when they deserve it
"
- Mark Twain
Twain was so far ahead of his time. He knew respect was earned, never just given. I wonder what he would say now? Loyalty always for the country, always to one's friend and kinsman, but never to those whose contempt is for all but themselves.
Hey kids, what do you wanna do today?
Stop a Romulan surprise attack!
Alright kids! Neutral zone it is! And maybe if we're lucky, we might see some Borg!
YAY!
I believe the Enterprise D *wasn't* a warship. It was an exploration hotel. The Enterprise, Enterprise A and Enterprise B were warships. The C was in the transition phase from warship to exploration vessel.
I would say that the connie was a multipurpose ship, seeing as it had the ability to function as a science vessel and a heavy cruiser
@@mosser-wm3dx It wasn't a very effective heavy cruiser until well into the Dominion war. Even then its effectiveness in that role is very debatable.
@@theindooroutdoorsman dude, i was referring to the connie. Re-read plz
@@theindooroutdoorsman nor did the galaxy play the role of heavy cruiser in the dominion war. more of a dreadnought/battleship esque kind of ship
@@mosser-wm3dx Given what they did to the excelsior class Lakota, I wonder how many advances were put into the Dominion galaxy class ships.
The Romulans are a example of how the Vulcans could've been. Emotionally manipulative
As if that's not the case in the 22nd century? Holding back technology, cures for disease, scientific research. Really makes me wonder about the Vulcan government, and Romulans with the interference, or was it actually a real move towards reunification?
@@travisfoster6473 The 22nd century Vulcans were (with good reason) concerned about humans being mature enough and ready to start exploring a complicated and dangerous quadrant. Archer later came to this realization after the NX-01 came into armed conflict with the Klingons, the Xindi and got pulled into the Temporal Cold War. He began to feel that humanity had rushed into space exploration simply because it had the technology to do so and crew members under his command had died as a result.
@@richardlahan7068 That and Enterprise was notoriously stupid.
To be fair, before Enterprise, the Vulcans weren't cast in a "we know better than you" light. It seemed more like the Vulcans were there to hold Earth's hand each step of the way as a guide rather than a parent. That being said, humanity does have a HUGE track record of their technology outpacing their wisdom. The Vulcans were not obligated to give them everything at once. Humanity still had a lot of things to fix about itself.
@@tarvoc746
But it was getting better season three onwards
Thanks for covering "The Defector", one of STTNG's best episodes. Keep up the great work, Lore Reloaded.
I absolutely love your Dark Space Elves of Star Trek series.
Regarding the poor decision making with bringing families into the demilitarized zone, I've found myself thinking that in the alpha quadrant political landscape, the Federation generally only has to worry about major powers when it comes to war and losing most ships (exploratory missions asside).
Having family aboard is a political decision, it softens the threat of a federation vessel, highlights their peaceful nature, mission, and straps hundreds of innocent lives to the hull should any evil empires attack them, building a casus belli into every ship.
All other things being equal, when trading ships in combat, the Federation can play the victim and say 'But we were on a peaceful mission! YOU killed innocents!' And in the political landscape of unallied worlds, factions, and even internally to the parties involved, who would want to side with the dishonorable, murderous, obviously evil and aggressive non-federated empires? They don't even have families on their ships! They're warships!
All that said, if Picard ditches the saucer section and enters the zone, he'd be all but declaring that he was on the war path, which would be out of character for him as a diplomacy minded captain.
I wonder if Picard tried to get the letter to Jarok’s wife and daughter during his time on Romulus during ‘Reunification’?
Read Sky's the Limit
It was never going to be on screen even with Nemesis. That's why books are able to do what screens cannot.
@@chrismulders2344 and the story in the book makes an organic link to both Insurrection and the arc in DS-9.......
I like to think Picard passed it to Spock to pass on
@@briandavion Picard in many ways is a Hands On when it comes to these things....
The ending to the confrontation between the Enterprise and the two Warbirds is up on TH-cam. I actually thought it was cleverly done. Irrelevant to the conversation but still I thought it was worth noting.
Close this was take from a actual Russian general who defected to the British as a lowly logistics officer to find out that he was a general he did give the British government information that was a half truth to test his loyalties he was later killed by a polish KGB years later
And to add insult to injury, half way through talking about needing funding more than ever, TH-cam decides I need to know about the amazing work done to improve washing powder... Keep up the awesome videos bud, love em as always.
Lol... that both sucks and is awesome at the same time
Tomalok was one of the most underrated villains in Trek lore....hehehehe...”Lore...”
Plus actor went on to play G'Kar in Babylon 5.
Jarok- had an eye to the future possibilities.
Tomolak- following the rule of the moment at hand.
Nicely done episode and review by Lore.
Three of my personal top 10 episodes of TNG have been looked at.😊
Can "Ro" be next?
5:06 (Subterfuge -> bold attacks -> costly war -> subterfuge) makes a lot of sense after watching your videos analyzing Federation policy over the centuries (military alliance -> galactic power -> explorers -> complacency -> costly war -> militarization -> galactic power -> repeat).
The crew were terrified except for a young medical crewman who knew things would be fine... Simon Tarses
I almost did a tarses joke but didnt like how it sounded in post and didnt have time to rerecord
I wonder if the Romulans had some bizarre interactions with Section 31 between TOS and TNG that caused this perception...
Just like countries becoming distrustful of US because of CIA...
Thank you for this video, I love the way you analyse the races and the Romulans have always been my favourites
I agree, this is a top episode. Keep up the great work!
Just watched this episode today. 05/13/19
Great video!
One of the best episodes ever! Anything Romulan is amazing, especially if you read the Star Trek novels about Romulans.
agreed, while they are not my favorite alien race(the Klingons are for various reasons) in Trek they are a very close 2nd. And I hope when we get the Picard show they are the main focus and the executives running the show allow for the writing to be as good as we fans deserve.
Diane Duane and Susan Scwartz books are neat.
This episode reminds me a bit of the Phase ii episode the kitumba, which thanks to fanfilms we now have available, interesting video, I’m loving the romulan and Dominion War break downs.
My absolute favourite TNG episode. Sloyan and Stewart bounced their performances off one another brilliantly. The whole episode is a perfect mix of action, intrigue, drama, and a brilliantly written guest character. To top it off Ron Jones soundtrack was one of the best in TNG.
What is never really explained in Trek, is the overall governance of both the Romulan Star Empire and the Klingon Empire. While we get the Federation Side. Both of the major empires seem to have hundreds of worlds under their supervision. And not too many worlds in these empires seem like they are being too oppressed at least to a point where the Empires military is obsessed with keeping the proletariat down. I am guessing there is a degree of freedom and self governance on each world to be part of these empires which we are only seen mostly from the capital planets point of view.
Klingons are feudal, with noble houses represented in a council. Used to advise the Emperor. Families may have governors administering multiple worlds.
Romulans have a senate and a continuing committee (likely)
I guess this changes from world to world. It seem that the Remans were put under strict rule - however even some of them could rise up in the ranks during the Dominion War (and surely also before). I guess there may be other species in the Empire who were similar strictly controlled, but others who are less.
Since the Romulans are inspired from the Roman Empire it would make sense that they made deals with local leadership, granting them at least some space. I could also imagine that some worlds are under the patronage of certain senators or families who put their interests foreward with quiet some sucess, as long as the Praetor has nothing against it. But that are just thoughts. In the erm flat way most antagonists of the federation are often shown, the normal life of people who are loyal to the rival Empires is not often shown - although it surely is the normal case. You see the oposition and the repression far more prominent (what make little sense since these Empires existed and prospered as long or even longer than the Federation, and that could hardly be done by force alone).
7:23 - G'Kar!
During the cold war with the USSR their were Russian mig pilots who defected to the US giving their migs to the US as a show of good faith for their defection. So yes there are cases of total defection in order to stop your own country from going to war.
Of my fav episoded along side The Drumhead
2:50 hmm that sounds like Garek.
You are so right
Does anyone realize that in the TNG episode “All good things”, the Romulan ship never arrives in the Devron System? Honestly, I think it’s because the Captain was really a Narn operative trying to start a war.
The anomaly was an error of the great machine on Epsilon 3.
Damn spotties! Spying on is 31 hours a day
60 seconds into this video and already I love it.
I aim to impress
I like this look better for the series. it looks so much more professional.
No surprise the tal shiar and obsidian order joined forces.
The least they could have done was leave the saucer section in the Federation and then go check on the Romulan "invasion".
Have you done a review on the episode; "The Wounded"?
Right after your patreon speech, comes a.... commercial 😂😂😂😂
... Love this website..
the defector is a changeling he's doctor Mora.
Absolutely LOVE anything Romulan(well...except Nero I guess), keep it goin!
lol Nero, to be fair tho there was a story to be told there that could of been great, but it was just handled very poorly. At least that movie gave us the scimitar such a beautiful ship
@@kinggoten Scimitar? Isn't that Shinzon's ship? Yet another waste of potential. I mean, I even like the movie, but don't take it too seriously, it was director's first Trek experience lol. Allegedly. Still a bloody good time, in a TFA way.
Nero had Narada, big spiky piece of nothing. To be truthful, it is a mining ship, but it don't even look Romulan...
@@goransekulic3671 oh wait, Nero derp I was thinking of Shinzon, Nero's ship is actually sort of cool my friend has it in STO, but you're right it is not very romulan.. but given how far into the future it is from it does make a sort of sense how powerfull it is(but why would it have so many torpedoes?)
No reason. Why does Voyager...? I suspect it's the same answer. Hollywood logic, that's why.
Though I'd like to see Nerada BEFORE they added a shitton of Borg Tech(apparently). Because AFTER...don't look really Romulan, but I guess that could be because we all got used to TNG era visuals. Take for example Romulans themselves. My first reaction to Nero was...a gag reaction to be honest. But! We haven't seen Romulan miners before, maybe they are bald and tattooed? Who knows.
Lore Reloaded. Your Romulan Lore Breakdown playlist has some police bodycams and a court date of someone. I assume that was an accident.
Lore (is that your name?) have you ever written/tried writing sci-fi scripts - Id bet you could come up with some really thought provoking ones.....which.....of course.... would be endlessly debated on TH-cam
Why did you leave Picard's trap out of this?
I address this.. i kept the ending vague for people to enjoy it.. additionally this is a focus on the romulans and i dont feel like thats massively huge to the point of the episode.
Perhaps you could cover the trap in another romulan episode
@@LoreReloaded understanding now my DUH....
I got nothing, so I’ll just like and move on with my day.
what is that Romulan doing at 2:09? is that a dance move?
It's like of course the federation wants peak of your ship the romulans did the same damn thing to the federation
I think the Romulans had quite the superiority complex always up to when they was seriously combatants in the Dominion War... an got the harsh reality check of life.
one could say that about the UFP as well. and proably the Klingons too. they all sort of got comfortable with the status quo and having it interrupted by outside actors was a rude shock to all of them
@@briandavion oh I can definitely believe that about the UFP. Who had no excuse for not being the most prepared of them all... They was trying to gear up for taking on the Borg in VERY bad, bloody, hard, combat if they had to looked like and should've been ready to at least fight the Dominion to a stalemate instead spending the first half the war getting basically steamrolled like they did.
@@robertagu5533 The Borg and the Dominion are nothing alike and are threats for very different reasons, preperations for one don't translate well to the other.
@@vegeta002 actually theres not that much a threat difference. Just in very similar but different outcomes if UFP lost to them. Having to fight a war is STILL having to fight a war in the event with the Dominion much like how itd be with Borg they was fighting for survival. The Cyborgs are supposed to be not only EXTREMELY dangerous in fights when they decide to opt for destruction but unlike Dominion troops there's also next to no reasoning or negotiating with them 99 times of 100 either. We've really only seen it done under extremely special and unique circumstances an it never really works. Least if the UFP worked things out with the Dominion it lasted awhile an would. If they built up the troops to seriously fight Borg like they really should've and shoulda known to do then all that means is turn them on the new Gamma Quadrant enemies. UFP knew all about them they coulda been ready if they really wanted to be
@@robertagu5533
Borg: 1 ship per fight, ship adapts to weapons to become almost immune, Drones adapt to weapons and become fully immune, hijacks ship and crew from right under your nose to turn them against you in the field.
Dominion: Large swarm of ships, soldiers can cloak on demand, weapons prevent the body from healing, sows political discord with shapeshifters and incites wars to weaken you before attacking.
Nope, the two factions are very different, present very different threats and require different methods to fight. Again, preparing for one does not prepare you for the other.
The ONLY thing that could help against both is larger numbers of combat-capable ships, which Starfleet was already working on when the War started.
I have been seeing more ads than ever before, I guess Google needed to line their own pockets. Not suprised.
Did that intro get more epic?
0:01 No. The Romulan soldier was not bigoted.... he was ignorant. There IS a BIG difference even if the results of both seem the same. The ignorant simply do not know better and with exposure to knowledge either unavailable or kept from them can and usually do change their minds, which is exactly what the soldier did more or less at the end of the episode if only slightly. Bigots KNOW the truth and forcefully and many times violently supress the truth through both self denails and witholding knowledge from others in an attempt to maintain either power for themselves or those they view as having the superior philosophy. Tasha yars daughter is a prime example of a true blue bigot, The preator in the reunification episodes where spock tries reuniting romulous and vulcan is a bigot. The Vulcan pirate in "The Gambit" is a bigot. It may seem neglible but the distinctions truely and wholely matter when analyzing why people do certain actions. Mainly because bigots almost never change their philosophy. Imagine hitler suddenly embacing the jews or the head of the mormon church embracing LGBT people with open arms. Their is no hope for change because they reject reality outright and substitute with their own.
I think colonel Green and the romulans would have made great allies.
space dark elves from north korea
Militarily..yea
When the Romulans were introduced, Gene's thinking was geared towards the Communist Chinese actually....
The constant lack of objectivity in your personal bias against Discovery made a few of your uploads very hard to watch, but you know what? You're *good* at this, and even though I enjoy DSC (it's not perfect and isn't my top favorite, but still) and you hate it, I *love* your insight and presentation overall, so keep it up. Besides, it would be silly of me to let one thing bad-apple the whole outfit.
Looking forward to more~
At least TH-cam also makes less than ever before. 50 billion less to be precise. I know it doesn’t help you. But still...
If you get rid of the long credits at the end then more people will be likely to watch the ad at the end.
My real question, is WHY are the Romulans such violent isolationists.
Surely they understand enough of the Federation that they know they could just diplomatically say "Leave us the fuck alone." and the federation would be totally okay with that.
Kind of reminds me of Snowden. As I understand it he only leaked documents related to spying but not other sensitive documents.
Ok who played the Romulan in this episode? He looks familiar, i'm sure he's played other Star Trek characters as well but i can't put my finger on who.
James Sloyan
@@jameskennedy8030 Ahh so Doctor Mora from DS9, i knew i recognized him from somewhere recently (since i just recently rewatched DS9)
@@WesStacey and Lord Kiro on Babylon 5
he played Worf's son as an adult from the future
@@frictionRx5 forgot about that....
almost everyone thinks they are "the good guys"
Excellent analysis! It would be fair to say that the Romulans (and Cardassians) are fascist. In the sense of being extremely nationalistic and militaristic. Their entire society has been built to exploit and otherwise channel the "worst" parts of Romulan psychology. Being adversarial, aggressive, paranoid, and erratic.
In a way... I would venture to say that the Federation and the Romulans hate each other simply because they are, fundamentally, so similar. Where the Romulans embrace their passions, the Federation tries to bury it. Both adhere to axiom dichotomies, one to channel their nature, the other to suppress it.
The Federation tries to grow out of its previous nature and evolve while the Romulans have maintained their nature as they have a superiority complex.
Far send in long fleet into Romulus neutral zone trigger war not happen otherwise Starfleet not done that. Real question is why Starfleet send USS Enterprise D act scout.
Possible answer it only ship in range that had sensor require to do job.
As for rest plan it make lot sense.
Also plan around itself is something Romulus would do try trick UFP most advance starship cross into neutral zone then destroy think Starfleet command will do nothing which make more likely Romulus do again and again differnet flavors.
Pre-viewing prediction:The Romulans believe they are superior and anything that detracts from that is to be purged.
Edit: Well that didn't head in the direction I thought it would. =/
So i take it you find it disappointing?
@@LoreReloaded Not at all. The main body of the episode was quite well done. I'm a writer and my edit was more a reflection upon my own ability to predict where things are going and wondering how the hell I failed that hard. lol
No, in real life that’s not possible. This does not exist.
You keep talking about Starfleet exclusively as a military, as if they’re the US Military, and missing the point that Starfleet is an exploration service using military structure like NASA, that provides defensive protection to the Federation when needed.
This isn’t the US military industrial complex, building a super fleet that can defeat the next ten fleets combined. This is a fleet based on exploration and science, with the military power needed to stand up to the Klingons or the Romulans separately.
So long distance exploration assignments during a generation of peace means you will take your family with you, and you will use old Miranda and Oberth class ships to increase the number of exploratory ships you have.
This isn’t Star Wars, this is Star Trek. The Federation isn’t humans expanding their empire, it’s humans and Vulcans and Tellerites and Andorians expanding their knowledge.
...while you may be betraying your country, you may not necessarily be betraying your kinsmen [...] at least in fiction, "apparently it's not possible in real life"
I couldn't DISAGREE more...
Take a good view at what happens in Poland, when a guy that used to stand together with former 80's president, now runs the same shitty kind of dictatorship as the guys who he seemingly fought just under 40 years ago...
Imagine that, switching sides is possible in reality...
Thats the point of the sarcastic comment.. and why i inflected that it is possible
Womulansh.
At least the Romulan health system is better than the US health system.
US has best 5 year cancer survival rate.
The US has *the* best healthcare in the world for some.
Always loved the Romulan as a species and always wondered why they were never explored more in any series. They make some of the most intereting episodes in each series, but we never see them in more details. None of the films (not counting Nemesis who did not utilise them to their full potential) or series utilise the Romulans more regularly. I'm freaking tired of the klingon and the borg.
In a way I am sort of glad it never happened the borg were ruined in voyager(and to some extent in first contact) while the klingons were allies so they didn't have to be ruined(well until discovery). With the Picard show coming up it will be the perfect time to give Romulas(if it is not destroyed) its chance in the spotlight, I do worry about the writing but I have faith even if STD was a bit of a downer.
@@kinggoten i agree with you that unlike the borg, writers did not had the chance to f.. it up. But since, i still would havenliked to see much more of them.
Make a Subscribe Star account
Just so you know I am NOT bothered by your advertisements. You do you, your channel keeps me distracted from all of the political stuff that I would otherwise be watching right now.. .
Snowden is a hero
Wade, he could've gone to a more friendly and neutral country but went to a more adversarial country
@@jameskennedy8030 No he went to the only place he could where he would never be extradited.
@@alynicholls3230 we don't have one with Sweden nor Switzerland.....
Do you know Jesus? It’s the best choice I’ve ever made!
I'm not interested, but I appreciate your concern.
First viewer!
#winner
Yeah your honestly beating a dead horse with your constant and continuous ranting about families on military ships.
I mean.. it’s an issue ... but I only bring it up when it’s relevant to the video.. I don’t think I’ve talked about that in .. months upon months