Romulan Lore : Missed Opportunities of the Villains
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- What's up Lore Masters! In this.. badly made.. video.. we look at the end of the romulans in the TNG ERA.
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3:00 Starfleet Engineer: "You know, we should probably put trigger guards on phasers. Maybe biometric locks or even link it to a commbadge."
Starfleet Admiral: "Why?"
Engineer: "Well, considering that these are some of the most destructive personal weapons aside from, say, a nuclear or antimatter firearm, an accidental discharge can mean certain death."
Admiral: "Exactly!"
Engineer: "Excuse me?"
Admiral: "Those redshirts aren't going to kill themselves! How else are we going to have stakes?"
Engineer: "By 'redshirts', do you mean 'security staff', even though they're yellow now, or 'command staff'?"
Admiral: "Yes."
An glad to say even in their futuristic alternative reality Flag and General ranks are still stupid as in ours. Redshirts die throughout the whole franchise all the time.. for like no reason. They're like scifi's gold fish and the drop like flies in emergency
"an accidental discharge could only happen if some idiot threw the thing and it was caught by the trigger. no starfleet officer is THAT stupid. (possible Wesley)"
The UFP is exercising Social Darwinism, if you accidentally die due to your own stupidity or the stupidity of your coworkers, you don't have the right genetics to continue to be
TNG WAS GIVING THE ROMULANS THE PROGRESSION IN STORY ARC THEY DESERVED!
They gave them Screen-Time and it was Used!
Star Trek Picard was completly stomping on that!!!
Picard was stomping and spitting on so much!
I waited and waited for the Romulans to do anything good, anything to pay Picard back or just do WHATEVER, but no, they didnt.
So many Episodes of TNG led to Picard dropping the ball hard.
I always like the ending to the chase when Picard and the romulan commander talk, almost gave us hope for a better understanding
It seems to me like TNG wanted to give the Romulans a feel as in "Balance of Terror" where Kirk and the Romulan commander have a mutual, if grudging, respect for one another. Truly, just look at Tomalok's interactions with Picard. Look at the soldier with Geordi and even the Romulan crew in "Timescape" (one of my all time favorite episodes btw). The only one who seems to have an immense hatred of the Federation is Sela alone. I'd love an analysis on the Sela character, despite the fact that it would likely be entirely a rip on Denise Crosby's own stupidity and lack of foresight.
TNG WAS GIVING THE ROMULANS THE PROGRESSION IN STORY ARC THEY DESERVED!
They gave them Screen-Time and it was Used!
Star Trek Picard was completly stomping on that!!!
Picard was stomping and spitting on so much!
I waited and waited for the Romulans to do anything good, anything to pay Picard back or just do WHATEVER, but no, they didnt.
So many Episodes of TNG led to Picard dropping the ball hard.
Maybe if they hadn't blown up Vulcan with time travel shenanigans, they wouldn't have blown up Romulus for no reason in some shaky plot.
I remember reading an aritcle where apparently TNGs writers stopped doing romulan stuff because "they where tired of writing romulan stuff" which honestly was a shame as there was a LOT of potential with them that went unexplored
The Romulans are my favorite species in Star Trek, they have both respect and honor, and where phenomenal villains, I would love them to have a part in Star Trek Picard.
I couldn't agree more.
The previews show that the Romulans appear as a major part of the show. It looks like Picard even has one in his crew.
They might have respect but they don't have honor. Pre-TNG they were allies with the Klingons but kept launching small sneak attacks along the border, culminating in the destruction of Khitomer and the Enterprise C's attempt at saving them leading to decades of peace with the Federation.
0utc4st1985 True, but during TNG they were very honorable, rather than destroyed the Enterprise which was violating the neutral zone, they gave Picard a chance to retreat, and a D’deridix is far more powerful than a Galaxy class, especially Pre-Dominion war galaxy classes.
They gave him a chance to retreat because he was accompanied by 3 birds of prey. The only reason they were there in the first place was because of a trick.
"He just kept talking in one long incredibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic so that no-one had a chance to interrupt; it was really quite hypnotic." lol, they still have TH-cam in this time? ;D
Think they let go the Romulan arc in the end, because it was already planned to use them more in DS9, when they actually became allies of the federation. Much more sad is that Nemesis ignored it all :/
Well at least it wasn't let's ignore the galactic war going on and have Worf show up despite being on the frontline of the war movie known as Insurrection
TNG WAS GIVING THE ROMULANS THE PROGRESSION IN STORY ARC THEY DESERVED!
They gave them Screen-Time and it was Used!
Star Trek Picard was completly stomping on that!!!
Picard was stomping and spitting on so much!
I waited and waited for the Romulans to do anything good, anything to pay Picard back or just do WHATEVER, but no, they didnt.
So many Episodes of TNG led to Picard dropping the ball hard.
Shame that Romulus and Vulcan blew up. Never understood how it came to that in the writing room.
When Riker tosses Beverly a Phaser, the Phaser’s Safety is probably enabled.
If something isn't shown/said on camera it didn't happen
Mate397 That arguement can make as much sense as deemed necessary. That is, it make little sense to anyone who isn’t using it. It falls apart when you consider things that must happen but are not said or shown to have happened, or when things would logically occur. Starfleet Sidearms likely have some sort of discharge prevention, and they are likely enabled unless used by an officer/crewman in an active fire fight, or a situation where said officer/crewman are in potential danger of abruptly entering an active fire fight. Even if not enabled, I would assume any phaser would be on low setting when not in one of those situations by protocol (especially since starfleet usually does not sanction the use of lethal force).
Compare a phaser to a fully loaded handgun, you still would NOT toss it to someone even with the safety on
It's still incredibly careless handling of what is essentially a loaded gun. I never noticed it before but now that Lore points it out he's right.
0:56 When you realize you made a huge career mistake but they already killed your character off and gave her a touching funeral (which means she’s perma-dead, its just how that works in fiction)
Great video man. The romulans have always been my favorite species in trek.
Were it up to me to create a post voyager trek show, I'd establish that following the dominion war and the events of Nemesis that the new romulan praetor moved toward peace with the federation and over the course of a couple decades the neutral zone was disbanded and divided between the 2 powers and trade and civilian traffic began to flow across the border(though still through controlled crossings).
It just seems pragmatic to me, and I would think to a progressive and intelligent praetor. The federation and romulan empire spent 2 centuries throwing resources at monitoring stations, military bases, patrol fleets, and undercover operations preparing for a war that never came. All wasted resources. Resources that could have been devoted toward colonization into the beta quadrant and growing the empires territory and influence through peaceful and sustainable means.
Thats not to say I'd make the romulans close allies or military partners to the federation like the klingons. It just means that both sides decided to try and have a more mutually beneficial relationship and accept one another as neighbours.
Also if the neutral zone is disbanded then you can now have federation ships with cloaks, as the Treaty of Algeron would no longer be a thing with the NZ.
The real-world analogs I make for the Romulans is that of Iran and North Korea. Civilians that want peace and to know about the outside world, but are kept under the thumb of hard-liners in the government.
I think of the era between Minefield and Balance of Terror (Romulan War included) as an era where the Romuland were much like North Korea, except with the benefit of most Earth allies (Except the Vulcans) having forgotten what a Romulan looks like. Thus, no visual contact since the Romulans wanted to subvert Vulcan politics at the time.
TNG era Romulans on the other hand were more like the Iranians as mentioned above.
Joshua Lau Sort of yeah, they are clearly quite isolationist, but I wouldn't compare them to Iran or the Norks on account that they're actually quite advanced and self sufficient.
More like the US when they were still isolationist in their foreign policy.
Only if the US was sending spies back to the UK with attempts at subverting Parliament to become more "US friendly" or even getting them to overthrow the monarchy.
Joshua Lau also a fair point, they're somewhere in between.
Keep in mind the Romulans have the two homeworlds at their disposal, along with any colony worlds they have, while the North Koreans and Iranians have to make due with what they have and what they have access to.
Which reminds me, I wonder how many left Vulcan, how many settled on Romulus, and what is the size of the Romulan population was up until the Hobus incident? This may be a clue as to why the Romulans chose subversion to get their way over outright conquest; they don't have the manpower to take on the Federation.
I think one of the problems Star Trek had in developing lore on the Romulans was due to a lack of consistent characters. We have Tomalak and Sela show up a few times each. Everyone else are one episode characters.
I would postulate that many of the other races, such as Klingons, Cardassians, and Ferengi were so well developed was due to having reoccurring characters. Such as Worf, Garak, and Quark. If Sela, Tomalak, or Sub-Commander what's-her-name that was assigned to the Defiant, continued making appearances... I think we would have had much more to see and appreciate.
There are also a few episodes of DS9 which involve the Romulans that could be examined as well.
Of particular note:
In the Pale Moonlight
Image in the Sand
Shadows and Symbols
Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
"Romulan!" Cries Q to Worf.
Another thought on the phasers, as others have mentioned the possibility of a safety mechanism. There’s a later episode of TNG (“Aquiel”, I think) where somebody says Starfleet regulations require phasers in storage to be set on level 1, at minimal power. Maybe that was the case here. Still stupid to just toss it, though.
I always thought Riker was stupid. Not only did he make constant mistakes, and very amateurish ones at that, he also had a VERY bad attitude towards anyone who reminded him of HIMSELF e.g., Shelby, - (INCLUDING HIMSELF - as in his own self, Thomas Riker as he became known). Picard's description of Riker as 'Simply the finest Officer I have ever known' or whatever, does not give me much hope for the rest of them!
What the changeling was that first race attempt for immortality like Stargate sg-1 Asgard?
Captain Kirk met the only lady Romulan with normal hair
I always been more of a fan of Romulans than Klingons. Always felt that they had a more interesting mythos but was underutilized.
Pascal Arcand agree! Klingons in contrast to Romulans were pathetic.
klingons don't really come into their own as a culture and society until DS9 imho. They still feel like stock villians/reluctant allies to me until that point.
And once you get there I gotta say my favorite species are the Ferengi.
I'm starting to think the Romulans treat their cloaking technology a lot like how the Vulcans treated warp drive technology. And let's face it. If you were a space-faring faction that prided itself on that type of tech and a federation ship comes up with a cool density cloaking capability? I think your pride would be bruised a bit.
For the last 5 years, I've been putting together a Romulan themed audio show based in the STO timeline and your video series has been a fascinating and exciting source of information. Thank you for bringing it together and I am excited to see more.
I concur. The Roms over time became my favorite alien species. Horribly underutilized.
3:04 You make a valid point, but one tiny nitpick that may or may not be correct; I believe THAT sickbay is for Starfleet personnel only. I know I've read or heard that somewhere, but can't place where.
Multiple episodes have children in the sickbay
I can't speak as to why there would be a phaser in sickbay, I do believe that a phaser must have some kind of safety to prevent an accidental discharge.
Shame we didn't get that Romulan/Federation War in Enterprise.
Ikr such a shame it was cancelled
The phaser was just sitting on the shelf in sickbay because that’s the medical phaser. You know, when using a hypospray to sedate someone would just take too long.
How did Crusher get in the way of the Romulan’s disruptor beam anyway? For her to be between the weapon and the alien he was firing at, the alien would have had to have been climbing the wall according to that shot. Unless the alien was between the Romulan and Crusher and since it moved, the beam eventually reached Crusher (as time was slowed right down, not stopped completely).
TNG WAS GIVING THE ROMULANS THE PROGRESSION IN STORY ARC THEY DESERVED!
They gave them Screen-Time and it was Used!
Star Trek Picard was completly stomping on that!!!
Picard was stomping and spitting on so much!
I waited and waited for the Romulans to do anything good, anything to pay Picard back or just do WHATEVER, but no, they didnt.
So many Episodes of TNG led to Picard dropping the ball hard.
The Klingons and Romulans have a war sometime between TOS and TNG. 2 Republic simply means no king. 3. If the Romulans are the weaker power v the Federation Klingon alliance. Then do not antagonise them. Also, we are not going to show Worf torturing people. We see the pro Vulcan underground not the majority
rurrjh true. Rome was no Kingdom either. It was a republic as well.
@@rexremedy1733 Err that's sort of my point Rome was a republic after the fall of Tarquin. Lore is using the term republic As I presume a constitutionally governed State. Klingons are a monarchy, Federation Cardassia, and Romulans are republican Though Betazed may be a monarchy
rurrjh can only agree. Democracy and republic are two very distinct things. Although some people coming from totalitarian governments would have tried to convince me of them being democratic. For example from the former „democratic republic of germany“ (GDR). Which as anybody knows was anything but democratic...
Could you do a video about romulan tech. How enterprise c and voyager might have speeded up their tech because of time travel.
AWESOME episode!!! Thanks! I oddly enjoyed it; even though you told me nothing new!
Glad you enjoyed
Season 5 of ST: Enterprise could have been amazing.
It could have. They figured out how to do the show in season 4 (seasons 1 and 2 weren't bad, but they seemed like they didn't quite know what to do. Season 3 seemed like an absolute slog, although I did appreciate how almost every episode pointed toward the end). Season 5 could have explored so much.
@@lonnyyoung4285 A part of me wants to run a Star Trek RPG that explores the United Earth/Romulus War, using a refit NX-04 Discovery.
They should’ve dumped the whole temporal Cold War arch and stuck to the prelude to the Romulan-Earth War that we’ve heard so much about in ST TOS. They could’ve still used the Sulubon as terrorist Agents, or the Xindi to creat there Death Star along with the Orion syndicate (call back to DS9). Along with using Terra-prime and other rouge members of major superpowers to wage a proxy war on each other to give the romulans a wide birth. So much potential wasted…
As for throwing a Phazer - i would imagine you would have to deactivate the safety first - it would be a really dumb thing to design it without any form of safety protecting against accidental discharge. Most likely that is why Riker has thrown it so carelessly - he knew nothing could happen - was it responsible ? probably not but was it actually dangerous ? i would say no. Also most fazers usually were set to very low settings and you would have to crank it up manually first to lethal levels - you can see it many episodes where they start low - then have to crank it up. So i would say even accidental discharge wouldnt be lethal - it would prob just stun or just annoy you :P- or at wors create very small and easly treatable burn (esp since she is already at sick bay - the needed tool (dermo regenerator) was literally at arms reach. Cheers.
So yeah it wasnt most responsible thing to do but risks were extremaly low - Riker can be cheeky - but i bet he gave that phazer a good solid look before he threw it to make sure it was "safe" to do do. Basically it dosent take much - just look if there is any light active on the phazer - is its not (aka not showing the power setting) then its "off"/safe.
The Romulans are a great species and I want to see more on them
I know it's not cannon, but star trek online has an interesting take on Romulans. Sela and the Tal Shiar at least at the beginning of the campaign are trying to take over the survivors and reform the Empire after their planet was destroyed in the J.J.Verse.
Crazy thought... Maybe the phaser has a biometric safety mechanism?
Okay, now I want to hear Lore's theory on the Changeling / Progenitor connection!!!
Virginia Hansen it would be interesting if the changelings shared a common ancestor with all humanoids, it might make them start to trust humanoids more if they found out
I would expect that a phaser to have a safety catch. Otherwise you risk vapourising your leg everytime you put it away.
So do guns...should we toss those to doctors?
I think a better question is why Starfleet personal phasers are so ungodly poorly designed. Like I get that they're all stupidly peaceful and willing to bend over and lose millions.
But why in the hell are all the phasers designed in such a manner to make aiming as difficult and uncomfortable as humanly possible.
In fact I don't even remember the phaser 'rifles' they used occasionally even having a sighting mechanism, I mean there were those guns the MACOs used in Enterprise but nothing like that in the Federation as much as I remember.
Did you cover "the next phase"?
The romulans were highly intelligent enemy and I believe that that is why we see so little of them that and the fact that the Vulcans are their cousins so I think that they try to shroud a mystery. I will be glad to see them in the new Picard series.
River throwing the phaser is stupid, but I would assume that just like real firearms, phasers have some form of safety mechanism and are probably kept with it on.
Yeah Riker was pretty dumb but even more dumb is not WHY he tossed it is why wasnt that in a drawer or cabinet and not just sitting out in the open. It's their version of a handgun Doc shoulda ALSO known better
A Phaser should have mekanisms to keep it safe, these "weapons" get in very harsh conditions sometimes and they survive transportes, you could probably throw one from a skyscraper without damaging it, we are still talking about Starfleet and they are not the only ones that play with guns, ärrm rrrmmm.
Maybe phasers have a trigger lock or kill switch to prevent Beverly from shooting herself.
Err, you completly ignored DS9 and Star Trek: Nemesis - both of which expand on the Romulans potentially becoming allies to the Federation (heck in DS9 they were all allied together).
..hey..you think maybe thats why i say we will be breaking them down in ds9?
@@LoreReloaded I must have missed that part -_-
the phasers will have a safeswitch in the next model, I guess
Well in the future of all good things the romulan homeworld was destroyed by a super nova.
I love romulans
when is the federation going to do something about the easy availability of phasers? how many more children have to be killed by sickbay phasers? disgusting. no one needs an automatic assault phaser. smh.
Best Lore yet this just shows how lacking CBS and their writers hasnt a clue how to write Star Trek. So many hole and plots that could be followed up on for great stories and we get a STD. We can only hope they dont do the same to Picard, but given the delays I'm not holding my breath on that.
Is it weird that I think that the romulans would have alot of ships with names like dreadnaught?
Initiating stage 4
The phaser is set to stun. Duh.
Romulan Star Empire is basically the USSR.
Actually the Romulans make more sense as China.
@@wcoleman99 They are a stand in for the PRC and the Klingons are the USSR. With the UFP being the US and NATO. Keep in mind that TOS is from the 60s and so was heavily influenced by the Cold War.
huh, odd isnt' it. IF time for frozen..how wher the crew able to see...oh hear for that matter. IF time is fronze, no light would hit yoru eyes you'd be blind.
I don't think the founders and the precursors are the same
also phasors are locked down by the computer it'll be fine...unless the computer is malfunctioning....
Oddly topical
Where is Gary Seven during the new Canon of startrek?
Dead, probably.
Back on Galifrey
freeze1 probably if his lifespan is same as ours. Since he lived on an alien world who knows what effect that would have.
What music is that at
So ,opening up the flood gates to the rest of the galaxy and embracing federation ideology wont effect romulan culture? Huh....you seen europe lately?
ROMULANS VS KLINGONS VS THE FEDARATION VS THE VULCANS VS THE CARDASIANS.
Who wins to you ?.
U :3
the one that has the best plot armor
I feel like the Romulans were wasted potential. They're just there to be there and that's all. They're poorly written, poorly developed, and poorly utilized. It's a shame especially when you compare their lore to that of the Klingons. The entire blood feud between the Romulans and the Klingons is stupid when you realize that the Romulans had no reason whatsoever to attack the Klingons (other than poor writing). Such a waste :(
3:00 You speak as if phasers don't have any safety features. :-P
So do hand gund...shall we toss those around like hot potatoes?
@@LoreReloaded Wasn't a problem in the 1800s. Here, defend yourself! /Toss.
Also, 70 years ago you could order one via Sears catalogue.
Just because a behavior isn't acceptable today or seems unreasonable doesn't mean it always was that way, or actually is unreasonable.
Knives are another example. You'd never toss one open bladed at someone unless you were actually trying to harm them, but wrapped up in a box being stocked on the shelf, did that routinely in my college days. Never got hurt.
Bottom line is to be aware of what you're doing and you'll be fine.
To be fair, phasers are probably made with stricter safety standards than modern guns.
@@TechnoMageB5 hey i wonder if things like that arent acceptable anymore cause we learned people would get hurt doing them that way?
@@LoreReloadedNote: not saying your point isn't valid, just saying please look at the bigger picture:
Maybe it's just the tightening control of a corrupt government using what you said as a convenient logical excuse?
1. The black powder pistols of the 1600s were MUCH more hazardous - static electricity could literally make them explode - but we didn't have laws against them because people LEARNED HOW TO HANDLE THEM.
2. Where do the laws stop? They're already outlawing knives without a license in London, for example.
Remember: I probably sound crazy to you because of "today's standards". That's what I was driving at with my example of ordering firearms from a Sears catalog in the 1950s being a thing - our culture has changed, and not for the better, if we can't trust ourselves to act responsibly and with competence.
3:03 NRA?
What is the Federation will operate like the United States? What will be the changes Starfleet military Doctrine? And how was Starfleet use soft and hard power to negotiate with its rivals?
Lol
Also in deep space 9 the romulans and kinglons and federation all do become allies but depending on if you count star trek online cannon the kinglons and federation are at war while dealing with all kinds of other drama. The story of star trek online seems like it's on par with any if the shows it's just a Shame that story Is in in a really awful and disappointing game.
4:15
☺
That phaser deal can be addressed by a number of other scenes where people inadvertently interact with an interface without anything bad happening. Like LCARS displays, I dont think just touching it is enough to trigger anything. Like people bumping into them when the ship is hit or when Riker decides to use the tactical panel as a fuckin chair.
maybe in "All Good Things...", thats what happened, Federation and Romulans were starting to become friendlier and were set to become allies. which didnt set right with the Klingons, which st off a war between the those two, which federation were still an ally with, but didn't take part with the attack on Romulans, but when the klingins finally took them over thats what finally broke the federation-klingon alliance.
what with aliens trying to breed with starships? or use it as a nest
Nest, they mistook the warbird's artificial singularity as one of the naturally occurring ones they prefer. Can't remember if putting the kids to bed or trying to get them back out is what caused time to wimey.