Romulan Lore : Basically, They're evil Deus ex Machinas
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2019
- Check Out Techwars Global Conflict! bit.ly/2VIgK1r
What's up Lore Masters,
Let's discuss the Romulans in the DS9 era from The Search Part 1 and 2 and The Visionary. Basically props.
================================================
Want More Lore?!
Star Trek Lore: goo.gl/McF2i5
Star Wars Lore: goo.gl/Hzyrk2
Battle Star Galactica Lore: goo.gl/jpPPUY
Star Trek Dominion War: goo.gl/fmwtPf
================================================
Twitter: / lorereloaded
Facebook: / lorereloaded
Twitch: / lorereloaded
Patreon: / lorereloaded
================================================
Come Hang out while I play..
Mixer: goo.gl/YhgNiE
Twitch: goo.gl/kiVw8w
===============================================
Citations! These are my most often used resources:
Memory Alpha: memory-alpha.wikia.com/
Trekyards: / knightstalker666
Spacedock: / @spacedock
Ex Astria Scientia - www.ex-astris-scientia.org/sca...
================================================
The music in this video is licensed Royalty Free.
Songs:
Music by:
© 2017 Epidemic Sound - บันเทิง
Quote of the day: "If you want Quark's testimony, you can buy it"
*skims Rules of Acquisition*
...This checks out.
The Romulans are SO much more interesting than the goody two-shoes Federation and the Barbaric Klingons. That is when they are done well. When they are not they are mustache twirling baddies
You ever tried swirling your mustache? it kind of itches! I got to say I have respect for somebody who has the self-discipline to twirl their mustache and keep a straight face!
@@bisonhawk1 When you let it grow long enough to actually twirl.... you just can't stop doing it. It's easy to keep a straight face when it becomes your 24/7 habit! Try it, you'll love it, it doesn't itch at all. I actually don't shave because it itches when I do!
Tomalak was subtle?
It's too bad that Romulan character introduced in The Search was never seen again. I think she would have made a great permanent addition to the cast.
As do I. And the way she was presented I thought this was where it was going. And perhaps it was. Maybe she was pulled for some Reason. Or maybe not. I don't know.
@@skwills1629 Likewise. Having a Romulan on a Cardassian station run by StarFleet and Bajor... It's a smelting pot for bringing people together who can clash.
I would have loved to see more of senator cretak from inter arma enim legis (the second actor which i liked more)
@@No773.6 Adrienne Barbeau is the second actor to play Cretak.
Yeah missed chance for a Romulan Worf kind of thing.
When it comes to the Romulans, my biggest regret is not seeing more of Tomalak. He was great.
+nuck97 - Yeah, it would have been a nice contrast. Unfortunately the actor for most of DS9's run was a regular on Babylon 5 so most likely wouldn't have been able to get away for it.
Andreas Katsulas portrayed him well. Rest in peace, sir. You can see more of him in Babylon 5 as G'Kar.
@@Springfield1191 Watched all of Trek with my parents as a kid, never really paid much mind to Romulan characters. Watched B5. Then rewatched Trek with my partner, getting her initiated.
Holy shit was I ever excited to see Romulan G'kar, I love Katsulas as an actor so damn much!
I think it was easy to negotiate for the cloaking device considering the Romulans knew the Federation could and have made their own. The only thing that held the Feds back was honoring a treaty. That's why in future episodes O'Brien replaced the Romulan on the Defiant as its keeper. Hell, he was able to repair the damn thing, which meant it was no longer a mystery to the Feds and the Romulans knew it.
That's right. The Treaty of Algeron.
@@mysteriousstranger416 Yes, that same treaty that prevents the victors from researching cloaking tech while putting them at a military disadvantage. Admiral Pressman was right. The treaty was a series mistake. Especially since he was able to build a better version that would have easily guaranteed Military supremacy to the Federation.
Don't forget that Kirk stole a Romulan Cloaking Device way back. So unless the Romulans have invented a completely new one, the Federation knows how it works.
Chances are they haven't because thanks to the treaty of Algeron the Federation is not allowed to match their sensor technology especially with Romulan advances in cloaking technology in mind. If the general development of sensor systems cracks the cloaking device, bad luck for the Romulans, but such an accidental discovery could happen all the time with any of the other powers.
I think the Phasing cloaking device from "The Pegasus" ended up in the hands of the Romulans after that episode. The Romulans tried to make a Phasing cloak in "The Next Phase" but it failed, so I could see them taking advantage of this treaty violation to gain possession of a working one. The Starfleet of that era would give it up to the Romulans to maintain the treaty, unless of course Section 31 got ahold of it first.
No way Section 31 would let that get away. Them getting it (and making more) would also explain how they are able to get on and off DS9 with no trace, and how there operations are so widespread while still being concealed.
I've always liked the writers' approach with the romulans being mysterious, duplicitous, and odd. You never really know wtf they are about. Not really. And that's very interesting. The Cardassians WISH they were that enigmatic and sly.
Yet the Tal Shiar envied the Obsidian Order for their ability for secrecy.
@@Springfield1191 I don't agree with that statement. The Romulans ACTUALLY envied the Cardassian intel gathering methods (despite this supposed superiority leading to disaster at Omarian Nebula for both parties). Not so much "secrecy". The reason Tal Shiar thought they were less effective in covert/intel ops than Obsidian is they were much less willing to expose their own involvement in ANYTHING associated with beings outside the Star Empire. In other words, the Romulans were way more secretive by nature than everyone else and ONLY got screwed when they hooked up with the Cardassians. LUL
@@cplassen2138 The Romulans were so secretive, that they'd even outsource non-Romulans to be "merchants of perfume" :-)
(DS9: "Improbable Cause").
I've also heard Starfleet Engineers refer to Klingon technology as weird and difficult to work with. Romulan technology may be more streamlined and more compatible with Federation technology
It's likely they stole it from the Federation, the only thing Romulans did special was the black hole warp drive, which was sort of unstable and at times fatal.
@@time391 Less fatal than the "It's breached!" matter-antimatter warp core.
I'm not entirely sure. Back in TOS Scotty was iffy at best on how to integrate a Romulan cloaking device into the Enterprise (no bloody A, B, C, or D).
@@time391
well they also invented the cloaking technology that everybody has been stealing from them.
also i believe that the better compatibility between romulan and federation technology comes from the fact that romulan technology has the same roots as vulcan technology.
@@peterjones701 Well, it's not like he'd ever seen one up close before.
Romulans walking in like they own the place is canon
We'll see that Romulan Cloak Technician again... When she's reborn as a Cardassian in Voyager (Seska), just like Gul Dukat.
Eric Hanson
What is did Dukat play?
@@matthew8153 th-cam.com/video/Hy2GWUD0fO0/w-d-xo.html
That's her!? Wow!
I always loved the Romulans, they were a big favourite of mine.
I loved seeing them on DS9 and sometimes wish they got fleshed out more as the Cardassians were.
Star Trek: Picard has been doing some of that 'fleshing out' with regard to the Romulans: Laris+Jaban, and Narek, too.
@@mardus_ee it would be better if this "fleshing out" was not. The "lifelong fan" (screenwriter, who did not watch either Voyager, TNG nor even reboot) wrote such nonsense about this species...
@@Re_269 Some of the new parts about Romulan culture are good, especially the stuff where Narek was featured - the triangle game, the cube game, the meditation room.
The Zhat Vash story and the avoidance of artificial intelligence seems strange, though, given the technological advancement of Romulan society. But not implausible either.
Some of the rest of the world-building is not good, such as Elnor and the nuns, and the nuns' having an oversized impact on Romulan society 800-900 years into the future.
The death of Zhaban was totally pointless.
@@mardus_ee
Or explanation of ridges and mention that Romulans has a talk-show.
But meditation... Are they Vulcans again? :)
Monasteries, monks - all of it are Vulcan things too.
Not strange. Impossibly. :) Artificial intelligence is not only cute androids (as in the understanding of the "lifelong fan").
Oh yes. :) Elnor offered Seven to assimilate those guys. Assimilate, not even kill. "Good guy". Jarok at least betrayed his bosses, but not his people. And killed himself when he understood what he had done.
And Narissa... The "villain" is just an operative with bad manners, and it is poor and pathetic idea. It is not Sela from the STO.
Lol... "Destroy Icheb, destroy Hugh, destroy Maddox, now destroy Zhaban". Greatest feat of the "lifelong fan". However, what do I want after the dude explains everything by fear...
"Its a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkeeeeeeee." best line delivery from a romulin on DS9
Well my argument for why its a Romulan cloak is that the Romulans had to agree to a treaty revision to permit the Federation to have it in the first place, and they would rather the Federation have one of their cloaks, which is no doubt full of espionage gear, than let them get a Klingon cloak which isn't.
Romulans are very interesting. They're lethal and treacherous you can neither trust them Nor afford to not deal with them.
Another excellent video from The Master. A complete and comprehensive breakdown that was both informative and enjoyable. Had no idea what it had to do with evil Dudes and ex-Machinists, but still a great video.
The Romulans would have been much better fleshed out had there been a couple of reoccurring characters. Sela and Tomalak were excellent characters, especially as antagonists. The Sub-Commander that was assigned to the Defiant would have made an excellent protagonist.
I look forward to the fan fiction video!
Ah Lore, it's so cute hearing your mis-pronunciation of words; Deus is pronounced day-us. No worries, we still love you. 😜
Good luck with the fan fiction movie hopefully CBS doesn't smack it down0
Well, the Defiant class in one of the few ships that are almost fully offensively orientated, where most other starships are heavily armed cruisers, with a high emphasis on exploratory and long-range missions. The Defiant is rolled out of Starbase to kick some ass, complete the mission, and go home to impress the ladies/lads
The TOS Romulans were an interesting and formidable culture that I really wanted to see in greater detail. Unfortunately, TNG & DS9 made them into North Korea.....
I can also see why the Romulans allowed the Federation a cloaking device: it would give them the info needed so they can build an illegal fleet, ally it with another dangerous intelligence group, ie, Obsidian Order, go bombard the Dominion planet, then blame it on the Federation. Starfleet could've easily built one and used it wherever they wanted to, and not had to share any info with anyone.
Wait.. Lore is sponsoring a war!? 😆
You're part of the Romulan War?!?!?! Awesome! I cant wait!
This day just got awesome! Thanks LoreR!
I guess the biggest difference between the Visionaries Romulan’s sacrificing innocent people to help the war effort and the Pale Moonlight’s Sisko sacrificing innocent people to help the war effort is the Romulans got caught.
I need more battletech lore :)
2nd! The Romulans are basically us.
People! The secret ingredient is people!!
@@LoreReloaded WE GOT TO STOP THEM! SOMEHOW!
this video sponsored by techwars, the global conflict the Romulans aren't behind!
I've always seen the romulans as professional classy and Superioristic. Though I can't say that I find the women particularly attractive, as a people they create very foreboding presence.
Romulan war movie?!?! I'm up for that.
TheMultiGunMan
It was going to be a few season of Enterprise but the assholes at CBS cancelled it.
If they used the federation cloak its essentially a super weapon. They could cloak a torpedo and have it de-cloak and explode inside a ship. It could almost do anything. Its just too powerful.
Also by providing the cloaking device they get to openly place a Romulan officer on StarFleet's new warship
Received my notification on my Phone 2 days after i received it on my desktop...
Weird.
Any scenario could you think of the Romulans able to beat the federation one on one?
With a mega weapon like in Nemesis.
1.infiltrate star fleet 2. push for a change in uniforms, have them all wear red shirts 3. problem solved
federation vs romulans, it's honestly a coin toss who wins. They're very equal powers, with favour to the romulans because they have more D'deridex warbirds than the federation has Galaxy class starships.
Nope
Dude, I’m officially hyped for that Romulan War movie. It’s cool that you’re sponsoring. I hope it works out! Jesus Christ be with you guys!
The defiant would've been badass with the phase cloak from tng!
I would love to know more about Romulan food. I want to cook it! I don't fancy giant mollusks, but I would love to know what viinerine is and what that soup Picard and Data get from a "loyal establishment" in "Unification" is.
maybe Starfleet changed the definition of Ship of War...
like the Germans after WW1 -
"we don't have Battleships they're uhhh Battle-Cruisers... ja that's it!"
I see you are now banned from China. I like how you used the 2008 Hope and Change iconography to do it.
that Romulan is seska from voyager
Just a thought, but I wonder if the senator was built in secret during the dominion war as a sort of super weapon
Nice to see the Tarses family though
00:31 what the hell am i doing with my life? This coment beats me xD
Actually I can believe that the Romulan Cloacking technology was more advanced than Klingons. In the Voyage Home (yes the one with the Whale probe) they are onboard a Kligon bird of prey and Scotty remarks how primitive some of the systems are. Klingons are not that big on innovation it seems!
Okay then ask me this was worf in command of the Defiant during the Borg attack in star trek first contact when the enterprise e comes to earth to save the Defiant
In STO, the Romulans have a better cloak too.
honestly it was rumored that the klingon cloaking tech came from the romulans
wait is it different from klingon cloak in game?
@@danshakuimo yes. Klingons cannot cloak mid battle. Romulans can.
TECHWARS sounds a little too close in name to Shatner's TEKWAR .. as a trekkie i cannot abide that :P
In hindsight a lot of lives could have been saved if they did destroy the wormhole, i cant think of anything off the top of my head (and its been a few years since i watched the dominion war eps) that benefited the federation by having the wormhole (and would have saved us from a lot of alamarain pain), sure it brought the cardassian regime down but at a huge cost.
Yon sarcasm about the Romulans taking their sweet time allying with the Federation reminded me of something. Those Dominion War books I mentioned, Behind Enemy Lines and Tunnel Through the Stars? Well, during those books, it is revealed, firstly, that as an alternative to taking down the minefield, the Diminion was testing a device to create an artificial wormhole (tech, tech, ad silly-um). It is also revealed, secondly, that the Romulans are aware of the technology, and, thirdly, plan to join the war on the Dominion’s side if it works. Nice pressure point, though rather at odds with the Federation having all this cloaking tech for no apparent reason.
That whole scheme didn’t fly, obviously. Not surprising, though. If you put all that time and all those resources into building such admittedly impressive tech, let its chief scientist - who’s a Trill instead of, say, a Vorta or a Cardassian - get captured and turned, and then let the thing get destroyed by a freakin’ freighter, even when Picard is at the tiller, you are NOT going to look impressive.
USS Ares will always be the first true ship of war built by Starfleet to me. Remember AXANAR!
Links to where the Romulan fan film is gonna come out?
Not yet, stay tuned
@@LoreReloaded You bet I will, it' s a story arc I really think deserved a series
Yikes. The Federation is looking *so* good this week...
At least the Romulans act like a real Government.
Romulans for bein so badass its said.. got to finally prove it in large scale open war against a worthy enemy.. even playing "the Calvary" and then what happens.. they need help from the other elite warrior races in Starfleet and the Klingons when they send even fairly good sized fleets... of their strongest deathbirds... against comparable Dominion forces. The other 2 ALWAYS have to break off chunks of their forces to "help the Romulans" cuz they're in trouble... again.
Cuz apparently Romulans are only good in war if it's running sabotaging or ambush operations.
@5:31 I understand the point you're making here, but to be fair, Starfleet does have a history of standing by the Klingons against the Romulans. Namely, the Enterprise C.
This video just reminds me the Romulans are the smarter empire in the Alpha quadrant. Seriously, how many lives would have been saved if they had successfully closed the wormhole before the war started? But they are the bad guys?
Well, destroying or collapsing the wormhole, while smart, would have untold consequences. Heck, the crew of DS9 were prepared to do that in a later episode when it got really bad.
It is silly to me that in over six TV shows and 10+ films that the romulans have not really been the main threat at all.
I mean yeah they get the odd story arc here or there but for the most part they have had little to do.
Heck they really should have been the season 1-3 bad guys for TNG. Seeing as the old threat (the klingons) are now allys.
But then we don't get the ferengi rules of acquisition if that happened. Or the awesomeness that was Quark, Rom and Nog.
Not true they could have been the new side bad guys rather than failing to be the new bad guys.
@@Darthpathfinder well we'd have to get Gene Roddenberry to get past his Greed is bad thing
Using Klingon Tech, might have been seen as carte blanche for the Klingons to go swanning about the Gamma quadrant bringing the Federation into war by their horny headed allies side against the Dominion. Also, the Borg scares have Starfleet relatively weak at this point. Finally, there is the Game theory point. The Dominion is a massive reservoir of strength So by cooperating with the Romulans, or with the Federation both powers limit, the access of the other to Dominion lake
Good morning
I'll go with inaccurate :) Also I agree, the Romulans knew if they said no Starfleet has other options for cloaking. I wonder why the Cardassians never bothered acquiring it.
Re Romulans, questioning Quark. Yes, you would do that. You want to push the federation hard. Maybe Quark does know something. Either way, you irk the Federation. So maybe they give you information, to stop you from harassing bar staff. Or Quark complains to the Ferengi Nagus, who makes a fuss. Federation council has another problem to listen too. It is quite sensible. Unpleasant though. Police officers do similar all the time.
I don't think you understand what Deus Ex Machina is:
It's a plot device that solves a seemingly unsolvable situation in a sudden and abrupt manner, typically in a way that seems contrived.
Also, a Deus Ex Machina resolves a situation, with usually a happy ending, it does not facilitate it (which the cloak does as it was supposed to allow the Defiant to enter Dominion Territory without being attacked by the Jem'Hadar)
Asking the Romulans for a cloaking device is not a Deus Ex Machina because the situation has been build up to.
The Treaty of Algeron has been introduced earlier in TNG (7.12 Pegasus) to explain why Starfleet doesn't develop them.
The same treaty also forbids Starfleet USING them, which is the reason why they are not asking the Klingons for a cloak.
They have to ask the Romulans because they have a treaty with them.
How the Romulans and their cloak could have been a Deus Ex Machina:
The first episode has the DS9 crew lament about the problem of the mission being doomed because they cannot get past the Jem'Hadar patrols... and just at the end the Romulans appear without ever being mentioned and just hand over the cloaking device.
Another Example of Deus Ex Machina:
Jurassic Park - the T-Rex saving the group from the Raptors at the end... without any vibration or stomping sound being heard... or doors big enough for it to get through
Correct..the cloaking device fixed a seemingly unsolvable prpblem that..oh what a twist. Didnt work
@@LoreReloaded
No, the cloak does not solve an unsolvable problem... it facilitates the plot.
It was explained in the episode right at the start after Sisko got back onto the station.
"We talked with the Romulans and they gave us one in exchange for any intelligence on the Dominion we gather."
It also is not contrived as it is a quite logical, and Federation-style solution... talk to the people on the other side of the Treaty that forbids the use of the said device.
As I stated above, to be a DEM the cloak would have to be presented at the end of the episode where the Defiant was introduced to solve the problem of the episode.
It was introduced with the Defiant and explained how they got it.
Hence, not a Deus Ex Machina.
The closest they ever get to a DEM in this story arc is having the Founders just letting them leave but even that is explained in the context of the story:
The founders want Odo to join them, so they let his 'friends' go on his request.
@@Tezunegari it did.. yea. They couldn't get past the jem'hadar and now..this swoops in when it barely makes any logical sense
@@LoreReloaded FFS.. A Deus Ex Machina solves a situation the story ends up with, not a problem that would prevent the story from happening.
The Cloak in "The Search" does not solve the problem of the episode...
It facilitates the plot by enabling them to get deep into Dominion Territory.
It is explained how they got it through diplomacy... and finally, the cloak does not work and this creates the unsolvable situation: captivity by the founders.
If there has to be a Deus Ex Machina in "The Search" it is the willingness of the Founders to let them go, purely on the wishes of Odo.
So at best the cloak facilitates the plot of the episode.
So ds9 fave confirmed?
But how would they of closed the wormhole? It's the wormhole aliens that make it and keep it open, and only with the bad wormhole aliens was it closed. At least intill Sisko's Mum kicks their 10 dimensional arses and reopens it.
This information would be really usefull when the Dominion war was heating up.
Sisko kicked the shit out of them and said "gimme your fucking cloak! I'm not Picard bitch!!!!" Why am I posting so many comments on this video?? aaaaaaaa I need to quit watching lore reloaded and get laid for once!!!!!!
Let's face it, anything after the movie where Klingons showed up with cloaking devices and Birds of Prey, is no longer canon.
Don't have background music when you speak. It detracts.
Star fleet send family to they daeths in deep space with a ship that they call is for space but it made for war
Hey, I just thought of a plothole. If the Romulans had the ability to close the wormhole all along, then theoretically shouldn't Starfleet also be able to? Instead of depending on a Hail Mary to the lame Prophets to stop the Dominion from coming through, why not use some kind of wormhole closer that was developed with the Romulans? That would have been a much cooler end to the Sacrifice of Angels arc.
The Federation could close the wormhole before the Bashir spy damaged the station.
Deus is pronounced Day oos
I know this might seem petty, but I want to bring up a couple of linguististc issues. "Deus ex machina" is a Latin expression, meaning "god from the [or "a", since Latin has no equivalent of "a" or "the", but uses a simple noun in both senses] machine". "Deus" is disyllabic, not monosyllabic.( I.e, it consists of two syllables, not one.) It is NOT pronounced like the English word "deuce". It is pronounced deh-oos ("e" as in "pet & "oo" as in "foot" (= "u" as in "put")) Also "deus" is a noun, while "ex machina" is a prepositional phrase modifying it. To make the plural, one should use a nominative plural form of "deus", of which there are two in Latin: dei" & "di". "Machina" need only be plural if one thinks that there must be at least one machine per god, at which point, since "machina" is in the ablative case (even though the final "a" is not usually marked as long), the ablative plural, "machinis" should be used. Thus, "dei ex machina", "di ex machina", "dei ex machinis", or "di ex machinis".
I realize that most English speakers don't know any Latin syntax or morphology, just set phrases that are commonly used in English, & that their natural instinct would usually be to treat the phrase as a single noun & add the English plural ending "s", but "deus ex machinas" just looks weird to anyone who knows a little Latin. ( I meant to put this at the end of my comment, but I accidentally posted it prematurely, & I could find no way to edit it in Chrome, while, in the You Tube app, I couldn't even find a way to display the comments, at least on my android tablet.)
You wont be having a good time on this channel if mispronouncing things bother you. Additionally, its not something i can necessarily help with out more than normal focus.
WOW knee pads, just WOW
Jumping from topic to topic is a bit annoying. At least post links to the other romulan vids. If i missed them I apoligize.
Stop beating down on Starfleet. Just blame piss poor writing.
First view
It's pronounced DAY-us ex Machina, not "Deuce ex machina"