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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ม.ค. 2020
- I make a tier list of a lot of Est archetype characters, aka late bloomers!
Haven't seen anything this bottom heavy since upside down Camilla.
Make your own here: fe-tier-list-maker.github.io/
Codes (use save/load): pastebin.com/SvBE8F0N
All BGM is from the Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon OST. - เกม
Wow, would you look at that comment section. I told you this archetype was contentious.
The only thing that's truly contentious is whether or not you can make another Camilla joke for the next tier list.
I thought a few of these are Lindes, not Ests. Is it cuz they join late and unpromoted? Or... idk we need to decide this as a community for overall perfect definition
No Delthea. She is A est
Mekkkah yeah, I wouldn’t call Awakening Tiki an zest since you get her at level 20 in all modes
Small Brain: Fae is the Est in FE6 because she has high growths and joins late.
Big Brain: Zeiss is the Est in FE6 because he has high growths and joins late, and he's a flier who's the sibling of another character.
Galaxy Brain: Shanna is the Est in FE6 because she's the happy youthful Pegasus Knight sister.
According to Mangs, you're missing around 40 units not including the Mini Ests
Sophia lol
Beck, dolph, macellan, radd, Caesar, Amelia, fir, Wendy, and Jesse are perfect examples of mini ests
@@professorlemon4386 what about mini mini ests. Units that join in the beginning of the game with average stats and have average growths. Like Cain, Abel, Dorcas, Erk, Titania, Camilla, Pent, Tibarn, Ike, Evyl, and Gregor
Pent?
Geoffrey is an Est!!!
mekkkah: archetypes are dumb
also mekkkah: starts a series of ranking units within archetypes
It's a great opportunity to talk about why these archetypes are kinda dumb!
@@Mekkkah it's also gives, y'know, a lotta views. Man's gonna pay them taxes
(Also, the background music is kinda loud, don't you think?)
You'll be hard-prEst to make any of these have an Estimable amount of value without a long and tedious grindfEst. You'd bEst leave them be before they leave you deprEst. Like Abel.
dad please don't post on my youtube
On a more serious note, damn FE3B2/FE12 is not good for Abel at all. Not only is Abel reduced to free silver prepromote and his wife is held hostage so he has to fight, at the end of the game his wife leaves him for no reason and he tries to find her and is never seen again. F for my guy Abel.
Grated Shtick damn really?
F
Thanks for making this, you're the greatEST
@@gnialwav5601 Sadly, yes
When is the "mini Jagen" tier list?
Caeda, Gray/Clive/Boey, Catria, Finn/Johan(Johalvier), Fergus, Dieck, Lowen/Oswin, Gilliam/Vanessa, Oscar, Nolan/Naeluchi, Sumia, Jakob(Felicia), Duedue/Hubert/Lorenz.
@@chillstoneblakeblast3172
Lorenz mini Jagen?
Sorry, what?
Fae can pull siege tomes at base level while taking 0 HP damage because enemy AI gains priority "points" if a target would end combat below 20 HP, and Fae starts at 14 HP. I think that Fae is better untrained because you lose the ability to do this trick when Fae starts gaining HP. If she gains too much Res such that enemy staff users don't have at least 5 hit from their starting position, you also lose her staff sponging ability.
Obviously this is counterintuitive to the average player, that the best way to use a unit is to not use her at all. But in HM, these are very useful AI exploits that would benefit casual players. She wastes siege tomes twice as fast in addition to drawing them away from other units and can sponge multiple status staves in a turn. If she gets berserked, then your staff users outrange her because her mobility is so bad. I think this is a very unique property among the FE cast in its entirety. idk man, maybe she is a good WAIFU candidate. It would be less about Fae as a unit and more about exploiting FE6's AI, but that's an interesting topic in itself. hmu on Discord if you want to discuss
Also Zeiss's base Spd in HM is 10-11.
Damn, I never knew about any of these Fae tricks! I always just benched her. This should definitely be a video!
HM Zeiss is too good!
Is that how it works? I thought it was more because FE6 enemy AI don't take into account the stat boosts from Fae's dragonstone
Protect the chicken
What Mekkkah wanted to say about Sarah but didn't: "Sarah shouldn't be considered an Est because she's actually good and worth using."
Sara is a nuke
@@LordZemosa She's a better Lysithea that joins later.
shytende aka Tamanoir Distich my heart real Christian
Amelia isn't here because we already know where she belongs.
In Paladin, obviously
For me, it's in the grave while Ephraim adds the speedwings colm stole from her to his back
@@gratedshtick you're right, the exp she contributes outshines any shit she does normally
@@dorcasmutton6335 I don't know, that Slim Lance saves you some money.
Grated Shtick but if you go Eirika route you can steal the speedwing and wait for her to reappear in chapter 13. Two speedwings!
@@juicedkpps She appears twice? I didn't know that, I'll try that once I play that game again
At 27:12 Mekkah expertly avoids his archenemy, the word “epitome”, by using the phrase “true face”. Truly spectacular, exactly the ingenuity you can come to expect on this channel.
I dunno man, the Eppa Tome has pretty good stats.
@@WildMatsu
Should be a forge in his current FE12 run.
Dude I beat Mystery of the Emblem without ever realizing that the enemies' xp stat is what you get for defeating them. You just blew my mind.
Concept: Samson/Arran tier list. For mutually exclusive units wherein you must make a choice between one and the other. Probably excluding Fates just for tedium’s sake.
Would substitute units be on there, I wonder?
Samson/Arran
Deen/Sonya
Johan/Johalva
Amalda-Schroff-Misha/Conomor-Shannam-Miranda
Bartre-Elphin/Echidna-Larum+Juno/Dayan
Karel/Harken
You forgot about Johan/Johalva from FE4. Substitutes aside, they're very much a straightforward Samson/Arran. Likewise with Olwen/Eyrios and Ced/Saias, though those two pairs are a bit weirder.
I think Nasir/Ena and the PoR Endgame Trio would count there too, and maaaybe the three houses lords.
God, poor Thracia B-route. Not only are two-thirds of them some of the only arguably bad units in the game, but going for them means missing out on four really really good units (Eyrios is also Route A, though admittedly I prefer to keep Olwen).
@@jacobkakyoin6882 in the eyros/ olwen situation, it is more personal weapons or better stats, because direthunder is a brave tome, even if olwen speed is nonexistent when she uses it and blessed sword is a brave sword with more might and critic chance, that would kill every dark mage without problem, and that +10 magic is basically +10 resistance vs magic users.
The b in thunder for olwen doesn't count because she is almost A and there is 6 chapters between both (counting optional chapters).
It finally happened
@@leaffinite3828 Haha, yeah, I saw!
Do the “Julian” archetype next: early game thieves ;P. Just imagine the variety!
It would be like
“This thief is useful for opening chests and doors” 15 times, it would be a great sh*tpost
idk Matthew is pretty decent for combat, like a myrmidon early that has use later
Better yet do a dancer tier list
@@sonnytuwun7704 fire emblem games where they can steal weapons, staves and items are higher tier and all the others are one tier lower
It would just be lara/lithis/pan S tier, astor a little bit above everyone else, and everyone else is 'useful before you get chest keys' or something.
"Kurthnaga is probably the worst unit in Radiant Dawn"
Meg would like some words with you. She worked very hard for that title.
meg has availability
@@shanner not like she's ever worth fielding
I know the instinct is to say Meg is the worst, but I do think that Fiona is worse than Meg. Fiona's only available in two part 1 chapters, and her movement is gimped in both of them. Meg has six chapters of availability in part 1, and can work herself out of being 1RKO'd more easily than Fiona.
@@alexandrelabrie7790 Fiona is absolute garbage and the only FE10 unit I think comes close to Meg's void of utility. However, what I think saves Fiona ever so slightly is that in the chapters she is available in she can at the very least rescue, which is generally useful if niche in FE10. She also comes with Savior, if you want to count skills in units' favor.
@@ikefromsmashbros9237 Fiona also has Earth Affinity, which is very nice to have. I just think that Fiona's availability is really working against her.
i came in here before watching to spam "TIKI IS AN EST YOU POS!" but yeah. mekkah always got me covered.
A Navarre archetype tier list could be interesting. They're all kind of the same unit but depending on the game that can be a good thing or a bad thing.
Navarre
Ayra
Shiva
Rutger
Guy
Joshua
Zihark
Edward
Lon'qu
Hana/Selena?
@@CrickettoSantalune I don't know about Edward and the Fates characters. I know archetypes are pointless but the "is a recruit recruitable enemy" factor is a big part of the archetype. Otherwise, it's a list of early-game myrmidons.
Ests are bad, but killing Medeus with Est is the manliest way to do it
I did it, both in FE11 H5 with a Gradivus and FE12 H4 with a forged Silver Lance
"[Sanaki] will do mini chip damage"
Sanaki is a mini Gordin
I thought he said "meaty chip damage"
3:07 I would say even if you are using the other two Est having a third flier in Celica's route is good because there is marsh everywhere because most of the battles near the ends are marsh areas.
Next time rank mini-Jagens :^)
that'll be quick since there's none
Mekkkah more serious suggestion: I actually might like to see a Camus ranking. I’d like to hear your story opinions :P
@@IceLaic last I checked, units that are in the Camus archetype can't be recruited. You may be thinking of the Lorenz Hellman Gloucester Archetype
@@gratedshtick It'd probably be a look in terms of their character writing.
Do oifeys
I have never EVER seen anyone try to argue that a manakete is part of the est archetype. They clearly have their own category in the tiki archetype
I agree, this video is a little too broad by including the dragons since they are more powerful than ests, I'm surprised they didn't put Astrid or tormod in here?
I'd argue Myrrh as a B tier, maaaaaaybe even an A if we're being generous, at least in comparison to the other Ests.
She's usable straight-out-of-the-box, the chapter she joins and subsequent chapters makes leveling her easy, she quickly becomes self-sufficient with only a few kills to where she only needs healing or protection occasionally, flight is always good, she's fantastic in the last chapter and especially against the final boss, 50 uses for her Stone is plenty for how long she's around... she's just leagues above most of the Ests.
Yeah, she only has six movement, low HP, and can't outrange enemies, but she's so easy to work around those limitations that she most of her competition doesn't even compare. She may not be as "stable" as a regular long-term unit, but I feel she could easily be placed higher.
I will say I had the weirdest first experience with Kurthnaga, though. Mine maxed his Strength and Speed, and got close in Skill. I thought he was supposed to be some lord of destruction by the end of the game. I was astonished when I later found out how low his growths were actually supposed to be. I still laugh about it.
Yeah, Kurthnaga is an awesome character locked into abhorrent availability. Why the Hell they didn't give you access to him after Ashera's Curse (instead, waiting until you reach her tower for endgame) is beyond me.
I didn't even consider Myrrh an Est before seeing this tier list- IIRC, she was perfectly usable pretty much from the get-go, and there are chapters that seem to have promoted enemies who are just there to be Myrrh chow. Then again, I was playing on Normal, so maybe Myrrh does have a tough time early on or something in Hard mode.
If Sanaki counts as an "Est", why doesn't Pelleas also? He's at a way lower level.
If Tauroneo kills Pelleas, does he become an Est himself?
Pelleas, and I'd also argue Rolf and Astrid are mini Ests. So is Meg.
Also, Lyre and Kyza.
@@thereaIitsybitsyspider And Tormod in both games! There's a fuckton of Ests in the series, finding them all is impossible!
@@thereaIitsybitsyspider "Is it the dawn brigade?"
Fat Shota Sigurd was the best joke on the SF tier list
FE3 Est's portrait looks like Dew
Interesting how the Jagen’s more or less join at the top of the list while most Est’s join at the bottom tiers, which are later. Kaga truly is a prophet.
Do an early-archer tier list
Ronan = S tier
How would the 3H early archers in your specific house count for this? Is Petra considered an early game archer given her preference for bows? Or Leonie? Because they're such amazing units on their specific routes but obviously they're not traditional ' early joining archers ' in the normal sense. They can become bow wyvern and bow Pegasus as well, which is super broken.
@@l.n.3372 for 3h, I suppose we'd be referring to the in house units that start with a bow in their hands. So that means bernie, ashe, and ignatz.
@@gratedshtick yeah the units which if you don't recruit them they go archer-> sniper to be the archers which is who you said
@@gratedshtick
Makes sense although there's such variability there. Ashe is great in Blue Lions but leaves your party in silver snow and verdant wind, hence he's less useful there etc. I guess you'd either have to take specific routes into account or just evaluate then at base from what they can do (combat arts, etc).
What about PoR Astrid? She joins in chapter 13 as a level 1 unit with Paragon.
Armor Knight and Cleric/Priest tier list would be cool tho
I think he didn't really include her because Paragon + bexp means no problems on training her. Also she's competent
she joins like... 4 chapters before the halfway point though
Awakening Tiki isn't an Est so you're fine not having her here. She's about the same as the other units you recruit in Awakening that are avatarsexual, good bases, decent growths, usually at a good enough level to use and a good pickup if you just feel like it. Tiki's paralogue takes some doing but she's a nice reward if you want to use more than just two manaketes since they have that 1-2 range which is good to have.
And also the busted dragonstone boosts
She's actually such a good unit that her bases are enough to carry her through hard mode (not lunatic) cause dragonstone+ is op
Unfortunately in lunatic + she falls into the realm of “just another unit I can’t use otherwise she’ll get 1 rounded by a hero with a 23 might silver axe, Luna+ and counter because her name isn’t Robin, Morgan or Lucina”. Lunatic + leaves very few options for being able to actually use recruited units anywhere past earlygame.
@@mattyboyjrmkll9905 Lunatic isn't the same as Lunatic+ that mode is designed to be as unfair as possible with all the enemy exclusive skills. In lunatic it is still possible to utilize Tiki but her pair up options are limited and unfortunately not as good as double galeforce children or anyone with robin. She's still usable unit cause manaketes are super busted with how much atk and def they have and with her solid base stats. Lunatic+ is a completely different monster because you can't rely on tanky units with the abundance of Luna+ and hawkeye infinite. TL;DR version She's an A tier unit in Hard and below but Lunatic she's probably a low B tier and in Lunatic + i'd rate C tier or lower cause it's all about galeforce one rounds.
No to even get tiki in lunatic + you need to have grinded like every child unit you have to max and have perfect rng just to have a chance, and have a few rally bots to help you out
good ests: sara
bad ests: the other ones
I think you misspelled Sophia
@@DaniDoyle They already said the bad ests were all the other ones. I don't see why they would need to specify Sophia.
No my joke was that Sara was a misspelling of Sophia. I was pretending to think Sophia was good lol
@@DaniDoyle I have no idea what you're talking about
@@DaniDoyle Honestly, Sara and Sophia are pretty similar characters in terms of their design and concept: youthful-but-wise lavender-haired mages who are defined by their heritage, have mysterious gifts of sight, and show up fairly late. It's just that Sophia doesn't have any of the things Sara had that made her good.
Great vid as always, the addition of the fe11 soundtrack is the cherry on top
Athos archetype when? (characters who join to ensure your victory for the final boss)
Zagan Maddness you mean galzus?
Azael Quintero Martinez nah Gotoh
Half of that tier list would be laguz royals
Tibarn is S tier
The title is still misspelled. Cross out the E and T from the first word and it's a lot more accurate.
Love your content! Would be cool to see a tier ranking on fighters. Maybe add in pirates/brigands as well?
How about FE lords tier list?
@@Warmaster00 3 houses lords don't even need a variable to be taken into account, you just put them in the 'broken class/combat art' tier
@@Pwrplus5
Sigurd might still be the best unit ever but the 3 Lords from three houses can easily challenge him for that title.
@@Warmaster00 RD Ike should be in S-Tier too imo.
edelgard not that good fight me
@@Warmaster00 But in that case, you almost can't really call anything S-Tier in RD if you look at availbillity that much, because that wouldn't make sense imo. Am too dumb to say really why, but maybe you know what I mean..? :)
*talking about Elincia*
Triangle attack is another thing she can do.
Three versions of Est: Am I a joke to you?
Early axe fighter tier list could be interesting
Bord/Cord/Barst/Darros
Johan/Johalva
Osian/Halvan/Marty/Dagdar
Wade/Lott
Dorcas/Bartre
Garcia/Ross
Titania/Boyd
Nolan
Vaike
Arthur
Fat shota sigurd is really weird.
Nice tier list, always like to hear your analysis!
When a character has an archetype named after them, but they’re an example of a bad unit in said archetype.
Gaiden Est isn't good because of Falco. She's good because of the triangle attack mechanic. Triangle attack damage is 15 + (Normal damage x3) so even if she does 0 normal damage she does 15 with a triangle attack which is pretty significant for Gaiden. It works on enemy phase, and enemies attack her over Palla and Catria making her quite valuable in part 4 routs.
armor knight tier list so we can know which generals are good in general
Xavier wins
Frederick is technically an armor knight
As someone else suggested in the comments, I’d love to see an Arran/Samson Archetype Video similar to your Christmas Caviler one, in the sense that it’d be interesting to see if the “A” route units are better than their “B” route counterparts more often than not.
I’m also really curious to hear which of said routes you usually take when you play the games.
Also, for once and for all, I’d love to know where “Mangs” falls on your tier list, lol.
P.S Maybe you could even include units like Gonzalez, Duessel, and Saleh, since their stats/viability change depending in which route you take, also.
Or, I’d like to see a video in which you revisit the “Cain and Abel” archetype but include non (main) cavalier duos such as infamous Luke and Roderick or Kaze and Saizo.
Oh my gosh, thanks so much, Mekkah! I really appreciate you reading my comment at all let alone heartening it! As a huge fan of yours, this means the world!
A tier: Sara
B tier: Zeiss
C tier: Manaketes
D tier: Healers
F tier: Est and Mages
what about delthea?
Delthea is just the original Nino so she really should be here
@@0y1on Gaiden/Echoes have Est herself, so I guess Mekkkah just said "eh, this game is covered." Delthea definitely belongs here though.
Tirex367 Delthea is low key decent in fe15 because she has a niche. She has relatively high resistance in a game where most of your units have around 0-5% growths in resistance and a base around 0.
@@Logans_Login She still gets around 3RKOd at base by Witches due to her low HP. Mathilda, Silque, Luthier, Clair, Kliff and a Dreadfighter villager are all going to be better at taking hits from magic enemies.
@@auseraccount.1876 True but she hits units like a truck, especially once given the mage ring which gives her up to 4 range? (I forget how much range the mage ring gives)
- The Camus Archetype
- The Ayra Archetype (Navarre back in FE1 and FE3 was a MERCENARY)
- The Lewyn Archetype (The guy who run away from his country)
- The Minvera Archetype
- The Jaegan Archetype (Half of them might be S tier lol)
- The Pegasus Knight Archetype
The best est are the ones who are in the west
I've been waiting for thissssss yasss
I'd be interested in your take on a Dancer tier list. Obviously dancer as a class is S tier, but I'd be interested in how the individual units and the games themselves impact the usefulness and benefit of a dancer.
Shadow Dragon Tiki at C I think shows the limits of tier lists for Fire Emblem. I understand why she's there, but being (basically) the only unit that can reliable kill the final boss - albeit with revival support on the higher difficulties - makes her near essential in Shadow Dragon. And ranking a near essential unit at C feels like a very weird thing to do as far as the information these lists are supposed to communicate.
This is everything I've ever wanted.
I consider Rolf to be an Est because he's the youngest brother and can do a triangle attack. He doesn't join late by any means but he is at level one with shit bases.
These new archetype unit ranking videos are a great idea! Next you should talk about the Gotohs or the sort of mini-archetype of female wyvern riders who betray their country and are often red-haired.
S: 404 Error- Not found
A: Actually good unit
B: Decent
C: Loli Dragons and Elice
D: Bad, but with some niche.
E: Bad
Archetypes have the problem that not every unit fits 100% in. One reason is probably because the developers mixed things up and try new things out to make similar characters. Ests got replaced by Trainees (I'm only talking about Amelia and Ross) and by Units with "increased Growthrates" Skills. At least they join around the midgame and (especially Awakenings Donnel) they end up being useful or better then others when trained whitch feels even more satisfying. Nino for example has the problem that you have around 4 to 5 other Magic Users who are so much better. Instead of Est you can use her sisters, Shiida or Minerva. Amelia has high res (for a knight) and doubles easier then Gilliam (and can become a Cavalier). And Donnels Growthrates are just... they're ridiciulos and every childs growthrates will be busted if he is the father and passes down the skill. The Est Archetype starts dying out but like the Jagen Archetype (the part without the Oifeys) they return sometimes in older forms. Gunther or Cyril for example fail to achieve the expectations of those I mentioned before.
Even though we already know who would be at the top it would be cool to see a Lord-Tier List as well. I'm wondering why, of all archetypes, the lord isn't one since he is the one which is always in every game with one to two very important things. First, if he dies you get a Game Over. Second he has the most broken mechanic in the Game "Seizing."
My main takeaway from this block of text is that Cyril is a Jagen. Not saying I disagree completely but I have a gripe or two I keep to myself.
@@gratedshtick Cyril was counting for the Ests while Gunther stands for the jagens.
What about a tier list for FE community memes like mini-Jagens, magekillers, and Eligood?
Eliwood is still better than Lyn at least...
I didn't know the mannekes counted as Est archetypes. Do Merric next plz
I trained Elice to level 20 in her join chapter b4 and got her to B rank tomes from boss abuse so she could use aura .
It was definitely fun but it was short lived bc I only got to take advantage of it on the final map and so many other units were deployed she wasn't a standout. she was useful but she basically was on par with lena but with aura usage. Being like lena certainly isn't bad but outside of the fun factor I couldn't justify grinding her up that much. I was on H3 btw
I think SD Est is actually quite fine compared to a lot of the other units on this list. You don't need more than C lances to oneshot enemies in that game, and there are at least one or two nice opportunities for setting up the Triangle Attack. That might not sound like much, but it's probably a lot more than units like Ewan, Nino or even L'Arachel will ever do in a halfway reasonable playthrough.
Aside from that, I like that tierlist. Tiki and Elice ended up a bit higher than I would've expected (they have a very interesting niche by oneturning Medeus, but over the course of the entire game, they'll only really contribute during that single turn, and they aren't even necessary to perform that strategy; you could use Nagi and Maria for the one-turn as well), and I feel like Tailtiu kinda cheats by joining in a spot where she kinda has to contribute by keeping Claud protected, but that's nitpicking at best ^^
Been loving these rankings haha, thanks Mekkah.
Are the Gotohs next? :^)
Can you do a fire emblem spin-off tier list? If you ever decide on playing Tokyo Mirage Sessions, that is.
Zeiss is one of those units that get REALLY good if you can spare them a stat-booster or three to patch up their weak spot (Canas, Isadora, Shanna, Gonzales). While there are a ton of units in FE6 that could benefit from a Speedwing as well, I always end up saving them for him, because even with a D in lances just a speedwing, a couple of levels with speed, and an early promotion is enough to make him part of the A-squad.
I would put FE3 book 2 Est around D tier, mostly because she joins with fairly good bases, and a base level of 5 in a chapter filled with harmless thieves that each give 40 exp meaning she’s not that far from a promotion that gives her +3 str and +4 def and a total of 10 move, especially considering the fact that combat stats in this game cap at 20 (except HP, which caps at 52). She also joins in chapter 15 of 24, around 60%, of the game, rather than near the end (still bad though). She also benefits from the game’s dismount mechanic, which allows her to use the Lady sword (at base, like any other female character that uses swords) which is effective against the brigands with a massive 18 defense that populate the endgame, being one of the few physical attackers that can reliably one round them, while also being able to one round the many dragons with a dragonslayer (that she can also use at base). TL;DR still bad, but better than FE1 and FE11
I don't know, I would say that in FE3 she's suffers even more from the usual Est issues since everyone can have absurdly high growths with the shards
But remember that in the previous chapter you just gained the Star Orb, which increases all growths by 30%, which actually makes some of hers 100%, and again, 40 exp thieves allow her to grow and promote quickly, and fliers in FE3 are still pretty great.
@@luizguilhermelunardi8270 Sure, but by that point everyone had multiple chapters with shard boosted growths, making her high growths way less unique. You can easily have several characters capped(or almost capped) by the time she joins. As for promotion, it's not that easy considering she's competing for the whips with all the other fliers who are better than her.
For Elincia, if you save your bonus exp for her, (which really isn't that necessary to use after you get whatever healer to class change, and even with using both healers, you'll still have enough to get her to a high level, if not getting her to cap.) and use her Amiti hitting 4 times to make weapon ranks go up fast (or you could just use a couple arms scrolls to get her to B on swords [which probably would be better off being sold]) then she can use the sonic blade making her an actually pretty powerful pseudo-wind mage, with her average magic capping at 25 at level 17, plus the 10 mt from the sonic sword, makeing her attack 35 without being slowed down by weight, she's actually pretty close to Soren, with his average magic being almost cap at 30, and lets just say he does cap, and if you were to compare it to the strongest wind tome with 6 mt, making 36 attack, which is only 1 stronger. But an average soren has 4 str (rounding up) at level 20 meaning he would be slowed by tornado's weight by 2, with the two of them having practically identical speed averages, it leaves an average Soren either 1 weaker at the same speed using Elwind, or 2 speed lower dealing 1 more damage with tornado, or being even slower with fire or thunder magic on top of having low movement, vs an average Elencia who is practically identical on the offensive, with quite a bit more defense, who can also fly over things and move further and has canto and doesn't need any work to be use fortify who also has versatility of killing enemies with high res using her personal weapon. Plus if she gets to an A with swords, she can use the Runesword, slowing her down, but also giving her life drain with more damage in a single hit, with very little serious investment. Now against my own argument for her, her utility throughout the whole game is a lot less so I'd take Soren any day if I had to pick one, adept makes him so much more valuable. But I believe Mist is a better candidate for the sonic sword and runesword anyway due to her near necessity against the black knight and her availability, but just comparing who I believe to be generally accepted best mage in the game, to elencia, it shows that they're really similar for endgame if you were to get both to level cap. So I personally believe she belongs in at least high C, if not a low B
Pelleas is more of an Est than Snacki
Mmm...Snacki
I'LL DO MY EST!!!
could you do a cliff archetype tier list you know (ross, donnel)
Ah yes, the "weak units that join way later and aren't good" archetype
Where are the mini ests tho
I think the entry i agree least with here is oddly enough that i agree totally with your description of Myrrh, and think that should put her higher up. When i did my low tier of FE8, once i actually got her, it took her just the turns it takes to reach the throne room entrance with foot units to start making serious contributions, and within one more chapter she was my best unit. As soon as the river chapter, Boots Myrrh just went where she pleased, because she had already been able to tank and eat much of her join chapter's reinforcement squad by the time they reached me.
I never knew Zeiss was an Est.
zeiss is. but heath isnt?
He isn’t, and Mekkah says he doesn’t really think Zeiss is an Est in the video. I would agree, because his growths are not boosted. Zeiss has the growth total of a “regular” growth unit in FE6, as opposed to someone like Nino who has a higher growth total than most other characters in her game (lords also get boosted totals). I would argue Zeiss actually has worse growths than his closest comparison, Milady, who has 10% more than Zeiss’s shaky 35% speed growth in exchange for 10% less strength (a good tradeoff). But that’s the thing with archetypes - there’s some grey area.
@@TheShootingStarKing Zeiss is probably the closest in FE6, since he's a flier, he's a redhead, he's low level, and he shows up at about the same time that Est did in the original Shadow Dragon. Shanna, funnily, is probably the one based on Est as a character.
Doesn't Zeiss have like capped strength in HM? Just for that I don't consider him an Est.
FE6 doesn't have any unit who really fits on the Est archetype description. Zeiss is like, the closest thing you'll find.
Mekkah didn’t forget Sophia shes just in the tier below bEst
Bonus XP in FE10 should be used on strong units that have already capped a few stats. Bonus XP in fe10 makes you always level 3 stats, so once a unit has capped their stats with high growths, bonus XP is guaranteed to shore up their weaknesses.
Mekkkah! Do a tier list for “villager”. Echoes, gaiden, donnel, etc
Tobin
Gray
Kliff
Faye
Atlas
Donnel
Mozu
My first FE4 run I accidentally paired Lewyn with Silvia. Getting Coirple to lvl 20 to promote was the biggest pain in the ass, had to make sure he got every village to get gold to repair his staves to get exp. he didn’t promote until I fought Ishtar and those mage sisters in the final chapter. He was great at that point but man all i could think of how good Ced could have been. He was already good even without Forsetti.
It's hard to say which units are Ests in awakening, all kids are level 10 but the strength of the enemies in the chapter you recruit them vary, in Morgan's paralogue most enemies are unpromoted while in Inigo's every enemy is promoted and IIRC some have forged silver weapons in hard mode.
All kids have the same power but for some you have to wait near the endgame to be able to beat the chapters while you can realistically get others (Morgan and Owain) as soon as you get Lucina
RIP Delthea the bestest Est.
She's got similar stats to her brother, i wouldn't consider her an Est
@@ThePablosin1 she has way different growths from luthier
she is an est
@@The_Triple_Point If Ests are defined by their growths only then Seth would be an Est. Delthea has decent stats so she's not an Est, you can use her from tje get go without babying her
I wouldn't count the manaketes mostly because the dragon stones that they use give them massive stat boosts in battle.
How about the last-levels badasses like Gotoh and Athos who appears in the final level(s) to make up for any RNG-screwed characters? You can also include a villager list, which includes the FE2 starting units and 13 and 14's early game villagers. Call it the Peasant Revolt or something.
This music is so nostalgic. FE Shadow Dragon was my first FE game. Played it years ago...
I was half expecting Mekkah to scroll grab all of them and drop them into the F tier.
wait l'arachel is considered an Est? first time I've heard of that
Same, she doesn't even join as late as the traditional Est characters.
Some of these choices are weird. But too be fair, the whole concept of archetypes is shakey and people disagree what counts.
astrid should be an est if l'arachel is included
It's all subjective but I personally would consider her more of an Est than the Dragons but really now of them are
L'Arachel fits the Est archetype the best in FE8. She joins late, is underleveled and has good growths. The closest to that is Myrh, who's on a special class that cannot promote.
Minerva archetype tier list
Wtf 46 minutes? You spoil us mekkah.
I would like to submit for the approval of the midnight society, a Beowulf archetype tier list.
The only real thing you need to be a Beowulf is to be a for-hire character you have to pay to join your army.
Madlad. Didn't actually expect him to do it.
E for Est. I'm waiting for a tier list of the tier lists at this point
Ok but you forgot my favorite est-- Mareeta from fe5. She's so fun to use with the mareeta sword and her join chapter is pretty great for grinding her up, as it's chock full of brigands.
Personally corple is usually my valkyrie staff user so I tend to compare him & sharlow as an effectively infinite berserk bot vs an effectively infinite revival bot (with accounting for the cost of the staves of course) which if I'm doing a substitute playthrough I would reset for my units anyway so there's no need for a valkyrie staff in that case. Berserk staff can be pretty fun in say the final battle there's a deadlord with hell that you can berserk into attacking julius & if he hits (or if you rig a hit) he gets reduced to 1 HP & you can kill him with whoever you want (like radney quetz) so sharlow is probably better than corple in my opinion. also why would you berserk arion when altena can Gree-cruit him & his whole squad? they certainly help against the dead lords
i trained miranda in my latest fe5 playthough just to have someone to use the meteors i hoarded, i had to drag many chapters and give her several scrolls just to get her to lvl 10, she got move +1, which she lost upon promotion and by the time she reached a rank fire i got Sed, who has that rank by default...
I suggest we introduce the term "Est-esque" for units like Zeiss who aren't quite Ests.
Some thoughts on the gmaes I played.
Fa : never use her for staff bait, I think I do 1 run where I train her and one doesn't. She almost depleted her stone to be good combat unit but if you don't train her she died too easy(low HP)
Zeiss: I didn't use him
Nino: Yes easy S tier... if you manage to train her which you could spend an entire chapter to do. Otherwise just use Erk or Pent. Also good luck or(godspeed) she doesn't die in her chapter.
Ewan: Summoner!
Laranchel: Serviceable (and pretty good post game, slayer saves your money) Her 7 move sucks tho.
Myrhh :just like Fa except her dragon stone +20 use.
Sanaki: I don't remember much, useable I guess better than Ilyana.
Elincia: Hype for her Amiti. Ends up being Mend bot(and physics).
Nino: IF you manage to use her. you need to slow down a lot to train her.
Meme character tier list next! Amelia, Denning, Dorcas, Gheb, Heather, any FE character who was a part of a joke or meme in the community. Rate the meme and the unit if they are playable
all E tier because fire emblem is bad
And I’m sitting here, frantically taking notes for units I should use just to trigger people.
Est is actually VERY good in Gaiden and SOV. You have to keep in mind that you get to deploy everyone and that basically every map after you recruit her is in the swamp where the whitewings and warp are going to be the main ways you can move. Also in Gaiden (not SOV) the triangle attack is easy to set up and actually strong, even Est can kill things with it. In SOV warp is less good which I'd say makes her more valuable. She's not like one of the best units in the game or anything on account of availability, but she is one of the best Est's if not the best besides Sara.
She's probably the worst flier in the game, but fliers are still godly, especially in the swamp and cantor hell that is celica's route
@@X-Vidar Well yeah she's way worse than the other two whitewings.
Her main problem is that she's only really available in Act 4 and severely underleveled at that. Palla and Catria do just fine without her.
Early game pegasus knight tier list? Most of them are pretty good.
Can we do a tier list for Gordon's so we can put Ronan on S and argue about why that is the one true way for about an hour? Kthanks love you Mekkah
I like how this tier list is just basically Grinding = bad. I know, I know that's the entire philosophy behind most of the stuff on this channel but still, damn that's cold :)
As for me, usually if it's Tiki or another dragon I actually really enjoy training them up to PWNAGE INCARNATE even if it takes forever because it at least feels more unique and somewhat accurate for them to be so OP. Normal human Ests I just ignore for the most part.
A bit late but, the funny thing about Tailtiu is that due to her Wrath skill, as long as you are on a nearby forest or tree, she'll survive in that chapter while he guides Claud away from the pirates, so pretty much op stuff, and also grinding the Arena in fe4 is very helpful in grinding her up, but yeah her defenses is a bit mediocre so you gotta protect her
Wait, how does a forest guarantee anything?
@@Mekkkah There's actually a bug in Chapter 3 that Tailtiu will survive the first part (that's before Claud reaches Sigurd after knowing the prophecy). There's a forest behind the Braggi Tower, to which Tailtiu will survive if she is in that area. Based on their map design, the game devs intended for Tailtiu to be put in that forest area behind the Tower so that she will survive until the main army comes.
Est is one of my favourite characters so I'm a bit biased in thinking she's better than you think, but that could just be since I always find a way to make her work. Of course she's not close to Catria/Palla level.
Good work tho always fun to watch these.
She was pretty good in Gaiden, because the game throws a lot of meaty monsters at you in Celica's route and Falcon Knights are just amazing. That, and the triangle attack has actual utility in that game because it's fairly tough lategame.
There s a few weird picks here, why are myrrh, lrachel, tiki and fae there?
Explained in the video!
Surprised that you didn't include Pelleas, but if I were given a choice, he's going to be around top E tier bc of horrible tomes and low archsage caps in RD. At least he has some staff utility, so he's serviceable in that regard
Someone may have pointed it out, but Awakening Tiki is almost an end game Jegan of sorts. And a great sub if nowi and naw are dead or unavailable.