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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มี.ค. 2020
- A tier list of all the wyvern riders in Fire Emblem. Haven't seen anything this top heavy since...idk.
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Broke: Red and green cavaliers.
Woke: Red and black wyverns.
two cavaliers, 2 wyverns?
@@unknownstranger6558 he just say that wryverns are broken, even more broken than the paladins in the franchise.
@@aburriiiiiiiiiiido Nah, "broke/woke" is just a common joke format, generally meaning "one is lame, the other is awesome."
It's also that you have a lot of games where you have a red wyvern (Minerva, Altenna, Eda, Melady, Vaida, Glen, Jill, Scarlet) and a black wyvern (Michailis, Arion, Dean, Zeiss, Heath, Cormag, Haar, Gerome, Beruka).
*Two cavaliers. Two cavaliers.*
I saw Haar in C tier and went “what the hell” then saw the other Haar in S tier and I was like “Oh yeah, there were two games”
The one nobody can afford and the one that's still kind of expensive
It still makes no sense that PoR haar was C tier considering how feckin strong he is without any work but even with a little work he just still becomes an unstoppable monster.
@@dragames To be fair in FE9 he doesn't have good availability it takes till chapter 23 for him to join so yeah not the best availability Radiant Dawn on the other hand.
@@dragames he joins insanely late in por, the rest of your team should outclass him by that point. If you trained Jill she'll be the much better unit. By comparision, he has very good availability in Radiant Dawn by the standards of that game.
@@FullMetalFeline Yeah, but C just because he joins late? And Jill is great, but she's also not that much better than haar, and still needs a little bit of careful leveling before she takes off, where Haar does not and you can't screw haar up. going from A to C just because of how late one joins is weird when everything else about him is A. I would have him in B for that.
king dragon sends his regards
Where's Prince Horace?
It's a good thing I always carry 2 guns.
my machinations lay undetected for years
I think that enemy got the point
@@lindakan9809 Honestly, I prefer Hat Archibald
Mekkah: puts "king dragon" as the starting placement for wyvern riders.
Me: Ah, I see your a man of [archibald arrives] as well.
I see you got the point.
“I think that enemy got the point”
“I think that enemy saw my hat”
“I think that workers have contributed to our country”
@@thelostician HERE HAVE ALL MY MONEY
@@Mekkkah Miledy sends her regards.
Lord Nergal sends his regards
Oh darn, I sure wonder where Haar will end up
probably F tier
somewhere he can sleep on top of
ZZZ tier
"I think it's harder when Camilla's not around"
False
Joshua Tan ;)
You're underrating Minerva in FE3. There aren't that many indoor maps (6, 10, 14(Partial outdoor), 16, 20, Endgame). And even then in 14 and Endgame she still does great because she has Ladysword access(Effective against Axe users and thieves) as well as wyrm slayers for the dragons. Statwise she's on par with Palla who is unquestionably the games best unit and the only real difference between them is Minerva joins 6 maps later. She's also one of the games bulkiest units and can take 1-2 more hits from enemies than most other units which is huge since it usually means you can put her about anywhere not in range of multiple dragons and she'll live. S tier material.
Also Eda has D+10 swords dismounted. Not much help tbf because the Elite sword is still her best dismounted sword and is E rank. But it does mean she's close to C swords which gives her a lot of options to be helpful and that's totally doable to get on her. I don't think it'd change her rating much though I would put her ahead of Michalis/Altenna(However, I also think those 2 are D tier).
Really sleeping on Seteth. Sure he isn't around half the game but he also trivializes the half of the game he's in with very little investment.
Seteth is more than stable when you get him. He doesn't need any investment, when you get him and is good right off the bat. Mine sadly was a bit speed-screwed at the end, but he still consistently doubled alot of the enemies. He has a good def, speed and attack and thanks to the flying skill alert (or however it's called) he also dodges consistently if the situation asks for it. I really liked stuffing him in a bush (dismounted, yes) and then chuck everybody with a bunch of forged handaxes. He mowes don entire bataillons that way. (Also stuff he's not supposed to mow down, but deeetails) The thunder axe is surprisingly funny on him as well, especially if you have to counter 3-range enemies like thoron-mages. Although he's not going to do much damage with it. Res isn't his forte, but he survives a spell or two, that's for sure.
Random note on Scarlet: i'm still salty that she couldn't marry Ryoma. :/ But yeah, she's godly in Birthright. Not counting the whole train-all-you-want-part, she's sturdy, fast, has an absurd amount of crits due to her personal ability and is a flying unit where you lack good flying units. Yes, looking at you two, Hinoka (Her only saving grace is her high res in a group where res is pretty much unheard of) and Subaki (who.. kinda just exists)... You could make Takumi a flyer but.. that's more meme-y and why give him an all-terrain-vehicle-bow just to ignore that in the end?
@@Aurirang
He doesn't really need speed since Swift Strikes is a thing
Can't wait to see Mekkah review all 50 incarnations of Palla and Catria
honestly they are all pretty good but can get strength screwed tho.
@@aburriiiiiiiiiiido Palla has some of the best strength growths among the cast in every game she's appeared in, and above all else her base stats have always been impressive. Enough speed to consistently double throughout the game with the strength to back it up, and fairly bulky to boot. Her Shadow Dragon incarnations are a bit underwhelming due to late join time but otherwise she's consistently been one of the best characters throughout the whole series.
@@MrCactuar13 I mean even with 50 str growth you can still get str screwed bruh, it's a coin flip every level, but palla just has high bases, she is good, but doesn't change the fact that you can just get unlucky and have no str.
@@aburriiiiiiiiiiido What is enough Str growth then? 50 ties with Marth and is higher than Ogma. The only people who are beating her in Book 1 (her worse version) are Julian (lol), Est (double lol), and Kashim (ok he's pretty decent).
You don't even need high strength to beat the game. Caeda at her measly base 5 str can 1 round KO the chapter 19 boss with a dragon killer. Silver lances 1 round most enemies in the game. And more than anything the caps are so low that most characters can end up with at least 10 strength if used throughout the game.
Let's not even get started on Book 2, where her bases are practically perfect and you can use star shards to near guarantee perfect level ups.
@@MrCactuar13 dude I am not saying she is bad I am just saying that the archetype can get strength screwed like 90 % of the time
Haven't seen anything this top heavy since Camilla!
Ecbrd Camilla Is the most top heavy ;)
If Mangs makes waifus out of units he likes, Mekkah makes waifus out of classes he likes.
I think we found S tier.
Honestly, this might just be the most busted Tier list out of all of them. Like, Camilla, Haar and Mylady are among the best units in the entirety of Fire Emblem
Wyvern Rider and Lord are consistently one of the most busted classes. I think Cavalier/Paladins are slightly better at the top end but also have more bad units, whereas no wyvern is worse than mediocre. Still, Marcus, Seth, Titania (and Sigurd if you want to count him but I wouldn't) are basically some of the best units ever, and you still have Jeigan, Cain and Abel, Hardin, Franz, Oscar, Kieran, most horse units in Fe4, Finn in Fe5, Percival, Frederick. The list of good units here is essentially endless. The staff users can also compete, since in any game with infinite range warp, they are basically the best units.
@@Sidnv wait what Lord tho. You gotta be specific because there are some horrid Lords out there
@@kaitokagenou he meant wyvern lord
@@lodestar1853 oh...sorry about that
@@kaitokagenou Oh yeah, half the Lords are terrible combat wise. I definitely meant Wyvern Lord.
I love Eda. You mentioned "if you raise her she can become good" probably to be as objective as possible, but even if you spoiler her with scrolls/kills/skills the structure of Thracia just does not allow her to be anything more than ferry utlity. I even saved Paragon and the Leg ring for her one run. even with those conditions, as soon as she starts taking off, she's grounded.
Chaz Aria LLC That’s a good point I often forget about Thracia. Same reason why Miranda is bad I suppose, in addition to needing to be trained. I was actually thinking of raising Eda in my current playthrough but now I’m changing my mind.
@@romitalia3088 just do it. it will be fun. same with miranda.
It really doesn't help her that dismounting also gives her a massive stat penalty besides forcing her to use D rank swords. But at least she's fun to use during the outdoor maps ^^
Adding a few things about Michalis: his luck is the worst in the game, at a miserable 2, which is so bad to the point where sending him against Berserkers is very risky, even with that class’ measly 10% bonus to crit. If you reclass him into a Swordmaster, he can use the Wyrmslayer at base and have 28 speed to boot, meaning he’ll never get doubled in any difficulty, while still doubling a few things even in endgame, or if you just don’t want him to face counterattacks, reclass him into a Sniper and give him a Killer bow at base, and he’ll be pretty decent thank to his excellent bases in skill, strength and speed.
Furthermore, he joins immediately after a chapter that sells statboosters (though to be fair, these are applicable to every character in the game), meaning you can instead have a character who can wield Parthia/Mercurious after a couple of Arms Scrolls.
Lastly, his bulk: with 42HP and 20Def as a Wyvern Knight, the guy’s not as impressive as I thought actually, as the class already gives good enough bonuses to said stats while being sort of slow at a 23 speed cap (which he is 1 point away from capping). Does that mean he’s bad at taking physical hits? No. Well... not _comparatively_ so. He’ll still face hell in Lunatic and Lunatic’, but in the lower difficulties can still survive something without getting doubled depending on his class, even against the scary endgame enemies.
worth noting that the low luck means enemies will target him a lot more, even if they do more raw damage to other targets which can allow him to function as bait if you arent unlucky.
@@jerry3115 is relying on luck a pitfall? i know it is a mang strat, but does one imply the other?
@@ZirexNorcruin well when its usually just like 1 or 2% and you have map saves its usually fine. plus, losing michalis probably isnt a big deal since he is just filler. alternatively, you can buy him a goddess icon or two in the secret shop or in the preps shop if you have it unlocked.
Fun fact: heath was originally gonna have a red hair but they change it to green realizing how bad he looked with red hair
So my headcanon was correct! Heath is Zeiss and Miledy father
Order Of The Crimson Arm would like to have a word with them
scarlet from birthright is easily S in that route imo. She's kinda the Camilla of Birthright, but automatically in wyvern lord so she has auto lance ranks. Build that up and she can eventually wield guard naginata for more bulkiness. Only reason she's overshadowed is because Ryoma exists on birthright.
Regardless I think she's top 5 or top 10 at worst. She's of course a wyvern lord but also one of the few bulky units which is pretty helpful.
I thought this was a shitpost and that you were referring to Revelations Scarlet. Lol
Idk if you're counting these but the children characters: Gerome and Percy. They both start as wyverns and that is apart of their character so I would say that Wyvern is their canon class. But of course they are children characters and thus function differently, but they're broken.
Can't wait for the pegasus knight tier list.
Shanna automatic S tier
Also unpopular opinion:
I think Shanna is better than Miledy ONLY on Normal mode because she joins much earlier and on Normal mode funnily enough has doubling issues on some ennemies that Shanna double easily, some sword cavaliers mercs and some prepromotes, so Shanna has a high chance to 2 hit KO a lot of the cast with a killer lance
Also higher weapon ranks in Lances and may have D to C in swords if she used enough in the Western Isles arc (which you should) so she can use wyrmslayers and killing edges, with the ability to not lose avoid from getting weighed down while gaining important avoid boosts against ax users, since an unfortunate hit can mettle down both Miledy and Shanna quickly
Every Palla iteration is S tier.
@@thanib7796 I hope you meant Catria
@@MorphRed Both?
@@MorphRed maybe in gaiden and echoes. But Palla is the 2nd best unit in fe12 by a mile.
Mekkahs Rankingtiercounter so far:
S: 22 Units
A: 29 Units
B: 42 (+2 Last Promise) Units
C: 36 (+1 Last Promise) Units
D: 35 Units
E: 30 Units
Oh Camilla, you represent everything I hate and love about Fates. On paper she's got a pretty interesting story going on, in which she obsesses over her remaining family because of the horrid things that happened during the concubine wars. But her design from the neck down is terribly focused on fan-service, and her obsession over Corrin cuts out any form of subtlety that could be found in her character.
I personally think seteth should be a bit higher. Sure, he isn't around for half the game or so, but the time that he is around, he absolutely demolishes enemies. He is such a reliable combat unit no matter what you do to him, and he's like that right off the bat, minimal training required.
I tend to box him with units like shamir and catherine, who join later but have superior combat with no investment. I'd probably say hes equally as good as shamir on a tier list, who I'd probably put in A tier, roughly. He trades some of her availability for arguably even better combat and amazing mobility. I'm probably missing a bunch of stuff, but based on what I've said here, I'd probably end up placing him above cormag on this tier list.
I have major disagreements on a few characters: Heath, FE10 Jill, and Michalis.
Heath: It definitely feels wrong that the best flier in FE7 is only in B tier, since you remarked that flier utility is really good in that game. He has a similar join situation to Cormag with slightly worse stats, but Heath has more time to grow with FE7's defense maps, chapter 26 in particular. Yet you placed Cormag a tier higher. I can't say which of the two is better, but Heath probably belongs next to Cormag in A tier.
Jill (FE10): Bottom of A tier is too low for such an instrumental unit in FE10. I think we've come to realize that Jill needs transfers and some above average level ups to become as good as Chiki claimed her to be, but it is hard to see her as worse than Cormag when she also has a similar joining situation, but her supporting characters (especially in part 3) are worse. I'm not sure if she should be bottom of S or top of A; I'm leaning towards the latter.
Michalis: He has a base 2 luk and on higher difficulties, faces like a 1/8 to 1/6 chance of instantly dying every round of combat. That luk is so bad that even pumping Goddess Icons into him doesn't fix the problem. It's easy to make him kind of work, but it's a calculated risk each time. Michalis has basically no utility in the overall context of the game, which is much less that what could be said for someone like Eda, so he would be D tier at best.
I feel like S tier is too high for Jill. She's really good when she gets going, but I think that qualifier "when" has to count. To me, at least, S-tier means this character can carry your run, which Jill certainly can, but also that they'll do it for free, or nearly for free, accounting for standard weapons and promotion items. Just because Jill makes very good, even the best use of BEXP or statboosters doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't like them as well.
I agree higher in A tier, though, maybe even top of A tier, since Jill gives a very good return for any investment put into her, and makes a bigger impact than say, Cormag does when she is performing well. She acts like an S-tier unit should, especially if you consider her statboosters as her personal property, and immediately feed them to her, but that investment needs to count somewhere, I think.
Granted, I have my own ideas of tier framework I'm working with, and am nothing like a professional player.
dondon151, I have a philosophical question for you. If you don't care about the long-term survival of units and have a 'forget it, baby, it's Shadow Dragon' attitude towards keeping them alive, would that change any unit ratings? Obviously, it's obnoxious to be taken out by a crit or a Devil Axe backfire, but if it's at the price of having a unit that has a 70% chance of soloing the three hardest chapters would you consider it a fair trade?
@@maltheopia The problem with such a unit is that you're never entirely sure when they're going to die, so if you get to a point in a chapter where they're supposed to do something and die instead, then you won't have planned to play around that. And if you did, that's an inherent disadvantage of the unit.
@@DD151 I suppose it depends on the kind of game you're playing. In games with a lot of undifferentiated cannon fodder units like Battle for Wesnoth or Advance Wars, it can be a fair trade or even overpowered. Yeah, your glass cannon unit exploded in the hangar, but you have four or five more of them and even then the war effort didn't hinge on them. I'm just wondering how you could balance such a unit in Fire Emblem -- even beyond the fact that most players aren't callous about their units and won't have a 'lol, let the TRIALS OF THE DEVIL AXE COMMENCE!' attitude towards them.
@@maltheopia There are many instances of characters in the series who are only available for limited periods of time and then become available for plot related reasons. Some of them are also incredibly good. But they leave at a predetermined point in the game, not randomly due to dying from getting unlucky.
Something I like about Jill in Radiant Dawn is that she is one of the earliest joining characters that can get stat transfer bonuses from Path of Radiance
Jill was already great to begin with but once she has base 13 strength and 17 speed, plus all of the stat boosters and an early promotion so she can use paragon right after you receive it she ends up being one of the fastest snowballing characters I've ever used
All of that work and you failed to include FE11 Jeigan, tsk tsk.
... what, he's not a Wyvern rider? Pah, his initial class is merely a formality. Jeigan as a Wyvern Rider with Forged Ridersbane or GTFO.
he's in the jeigans and oifeys list
D MAS woosh
I feel like Seteth probably should have been a bit higher. He has the stats and skills to keep up with if not surpass the majority of the game's characters in combat utility regardless of which route you play, and practically becomes your replacement lord in the Silver Snow route, making him a character you'll likely have to lean on a decent bit.
Swift Strikes makes him super good in Maddening
Same for Cyril, fkin Zeiss tier when he is already a top tier player phase unit starting from Chapter 5 in BL and GD.
Even if you want to penalise him for his absence in CF and bad performance in SS that still sounds harsh.
Especially when Seteth always skips on white clouds (where it's objectively the hardest part of the game if you include paralogues) and is also completely absent in CF and worse than Claude and Dmitri (if you built Dimitri properly, he can reliably dodge tank the early thieves and actually has a good gambit, no such thing with Seteth) in battle before dawn.
Even after that, he'll always perform worse than your other in house fliers (Sylvain, Ferd, Petra, Bernie, Leonie, Hilda) and needs to spent the first 2-3 post ts months getting weapon ranks for bows then mastering brigand and archer. Also his authority level isn't great.
I still consider him better than Jeritza and Gilbert though, those two serve no purpose. Death knight is a gimped paladin, Darting blow is irrelevant on Jeritza, counterattack is not worth an ability slot when the chalice and retribution fill that role better. I don't need to explain Gilbert.
@@smtandearthboundsuck8400 Dont really see how Cyril is top tier with those god awful base stats. Ik he learns PBV very early put thats not useful when his stats are so far behind.
Hey, a Mekkah tier where I agree with all the Fates rankings, and *almost* agree with all the Three Houses rankings. Only one I would up is Cyril to B rank. He does need to work to get wyvern going as well as grab death blow since enemy phase kills him on Maddening, but once he has point blank and death blow he just kills whatever he wants through most of the mid to early-late game. A little tricky to fit on some routes, but nice if you focus on this narrow plan for him.
I also think you slightly understate point blank compared to swift strikes. Don't forget that bows tend to be more powerful and accurate than lances, are easier to navigate around breaker skills, and provide 1-2 range defense after your attack for even the most generic bow as long as you have close combat (which you should in most cases). That's not to shit on swift strikes - it's an amazing art, especially with powerful weapons - but point blank is a little more flexible, and since bows ignore the weapon triangle when fighting breaker enemies and can hit at 1-2 range minimum, it's easier to ignore other weapon types in the late game for many characters (like Cyril) and invest in other skills.
Edit: Missed Seteth at B. He should be one higher also.
@@geek593 Yeah, basically all true. He does require some work (even if that "work" is sitting as an adjunct for most of that time), but it's nothing to scoff at having point blank so early. I'd still rank Seteth, Sylvain, Ferdinand, and Leonie above him though, at least as far as overall usefulness for the time you have them.
Don't have enough experience with he Ashen Wolves to directly compare them. From what I have tried they don't seem quite as potent at their peak compared to Cyril, and some have some clear downsides for longterm. But they are all also basically free too.
Swift Strikes is also A lances. Point Blank Volley is C+ for Cyril, he gets it way earlier than any unit is going to get Swift Strikes. Bows with close counter are also just the best weapon type in the game.
@@geek593 That's kind of matched with me. Yuri seemed to drop hard especially from around the early mid-game onward. Winsdsweep is nice, but not game changing nice between the time he gets it and other characters get it. It functions as weird kind of chip damage. Balthus has the same problems as every other Grappler type, even with his early stat advantages and armor. Good once going, and nice early game, but still a lot of work. Hapi is what you said, plus the authority bane really hurts her a lot. Maybe the worst case of looking better on paper than working in practice. Still has warp, but even then there are three other choices. Linhardt does feel like he outclassed her, and gives her little use. Constance seems like a potential alternative to Flayn, or a good dancer with bolting support. Or a lot of other weirder options. Hardest one for me to evaluate.
Still early, but Constance and Balthus seem like they are the best of the group, with niches that are harder to find elsewhere and the fewest long term weaknesses.
I’d consider Claude to be the weakest of the 3H lords combat wise, but at the same time, he’s the most useful. His mobility is great, and while I understand that you can and should make the others into wyverns too, Claude doesn’t need to train in order to get it, and FE isn’t necessarily always about raw stats, which the other lords edge him out on, but also on being able to move and use your character in tricky situations, which he excels at, which is why I can’t really find it in me to call him the ‘weakest’ lord. Stats-wise, maybe he’s not as impressive, but the sheer versatility and slipperiness (+being able to easily do chip damage without getting counter attacked) more than makes up for it imo.
Agreed, I think he is the most useful Lord, while being the weakest of the three at combat. Dmitri crushes part 1 completely if you use him, but has some issues getting to the better classes on time and can lack mobility if you don't get his riding up in part 1. Claude autounlocking a flier class and coming with pass is just so great. He's also the first to close counter which can be really nice in part 1.
Who the fuck even called him the "weakest" lord?
The many random idiots who don't even play FE at the right respectable difficulty level for their opinions to hold any weight?
HemaG I don’t think he’s even the weakest lord. Dimitri has some issues doubling in his route on Maddening. It makes it very hard for him to kill without spamming Atrocity. He loses out on a lot of exp being locked to his lord class for so long as well, of which is for sure the worst Great Lord class in the game, being footlocked and unable to canto sucks a lot for Dimitri.
@@powerfulberry237 Edelgard with Raging Storm can 1-turn her final boss. Dimitri with Battalion Vantage and Battalion Wrath can solo entire maps. Claude can... be a good combat unit? Claude's the best unit on his route, but he can't pull off the broken shit that the other Lords can do.
@@lightcouragefake574 I have a solution to all your problems,
Sword Master Dimitri, he wont beable to double in maddening mode, but with a crit fiend build + training sword asta he can shred through most enemies.
"I think a lot of them are based off of Minerva"
anyone else remember what Cherche (and by extension Gerome) named their wyvern?
Why isn't jaigen on this?
@MrSlaide It's a joke about how making Jagen into a Dracoknight is one of the more common routes with him, since he's the earliest character who can reclass as one.
Beruka above RD Jill, not gonna lie I'm mad af lol
Tbh,this is probably one of the coolest archtypes.Each Wyvern Rider feels different and unique compared to the previous one.Instead of repeating the same personality but with different character such as Cain and Abel archtype.
I just like wyverns they're cool
Honestly, there is a distinct "wyvern" archetype.
- There's usually two of them, one red and one black.
- The red one is female, the black one is male.
- They have some kind of relationship that makes one lesser than the other, like teacher and student, or older sibling and younger sibling.
- They work for an antagonistic enemy nation that uses wyverns a lot.
- They almost always start off as enemies, then join you over the course of the story. The red one tends to join first, while the black one joins second, or not at all. (Unless you're Heath and Vaida or Cormag and Glen, who reverse it.)
- One joins you around the middle. The other joins very late.
@@misterbadguy7325 What about Camilla,tho?She uses black armor.
@@imagineumnomefoda500 Post-Awakening games tend to be weird when it comes to archetypes; hell, Fates's Christmas Cavalier duo is a pair of ninjas. But even then, there is a red wyvern in that game (Scarlet), even if she doesn't have much to do with Camilla or Beruka.
Grouping all wyvern riders into an archetype is a bit much, but it’s pretty clear there is a clear Minerva archetype, and even then they are pretty varied with the only requirement be they are a red-haired tomboy
I agree with basically everything,except probably Seteth,Id put him somewhere around Mid-A Tier
Swift strikes, high weapon ranks make him easily A tier IMO.
@@l.n.3372 Eh. I feel like that utility is almost completely redundant when you have hunter's volley snipers. They can do what he does except at 3 range with 0 risk of counter attack on most units. He also kinda falls off hard iirc
@@CarbonMalite
It's not redundant because snipers can't fly: Hunter's volley is locked to an infantry class.
Also Seteth doesn't fall off even in maddening. So he's definitely A tier.
@@l.n.3372 disagree. Swift strikes is 1 range and his defense growth at 30% is awful for when he inevitably misses, not to mention enemy speed being rediculous in Maddening. Snipers don't die on retaliation and have hit+20, making them far more consistent.
@@CarbonMalite Sniper being a low mobility class is a big deal. Point Blank Volley on Cyril or Leonie is way better than Swift Strikes just because bows > lances, but I don't like keeping any of my units in non horse or flying classes. Honestly, player phase on maddening is just not that hard imo, so all of these combat arts, while great, are slightly overrated. Mobility (or setting up broken stuff like warp stride skips or retribution combos, or just getting rid of all enemies on player phase, which admittedly, swift strikes helps with) is how you best deal with enemy phase.
Me before watching: Jill better be S
Me after watching: Is this some kind of twisted joke?
You gotta admit Jill is at least a bit overrated
@@ikefromsmashbros9237 Is she though? In FE9 she will need a lot of training, but will also be most people's best unit in maniac mode up until the 2 chapters Ike has Ragnell. It certainly helps her case that her main competition Marcia will have pretty noticeable strength/durability issues in the final chapters relative to easier difficulties. FE10 Jill like Mekkah said does indeed need a lot of resources, but those will make her likely the second best unit in the game (maybe 3rd behind Ike). If transfers are allowed I would still place her as second best but a lot of people have argued she could be even better than Haar at that point on different forums.
Ajax not to mention having a good unit on the Yawn Brigade is a huge plus
Tri Tran Dimitri put poison in her mutton
Jill is good... but needs help.
A lot of these guys can just be hurled into blobs of enemy phase the moment you get them without a second thought.
The fact that Jill gives a very good return for her investment doesn't change the fact that some of the others give similar return for NO investment.
to give you an idea how good Minerva is in FE1. With just one speed ring she can double and ORKO all enemies(except very fast heroes in mid-late game and very bulky Generals) at base. This is not uncommon trait, since enemies are so weak, but the thing with Minerva is that she's bulky on top of that. So unlike someone like Cain and Abel she can pick a million enemies without worrying too much about her statement. So the only threatening thing will be Shooters with Quick Rain. Of course being a broken isn't uncommon thing in FE1 but Minerva stands out probably the best for the most part of the game until Cain and Abel just destroys everything in their way.
Can't wait to see tier list of my favorite class in the series - Pegasus Riders
My Minerva wasn’t one rounding shot when I played fe2, because I just had to give those speed wings to Doga. Was that a good decision? No. Do I regret it? Not at all.
Eh ...no one is op in fe1, enemies are extremely trash lol
@@mysmallnoman FE1 has that thing in a lot of Kaga games where if you want to, you can make pretty much any character good without much effort. Statboosters are super hefty and can be bought in some maps, stat caps are low, the arena is easy as hell to cheese, and enemies kinda suck, so even washout nerds like Macellan or Vyland can become pretty strong.
My only arguments for Claude being better than any other possible wyverns in 3h is that 1) bows are infinitely better weapons than axes especially since the deadliest enemies on both hard and maddening are enemy fliers or dodgy units like swordmasters and assassins that axes will almost never touch and 2) wind god is a really powerful exclusive skill that’s very easy for Claude to get thanks to fliers in 3h being designed for enemy phase due to alert stance. And it’s literally deadeye but better.
BGM: over one hour of FE15's soundtrack
Tier list: features no characters from FE2/15
Probably because Wyverns don’t exist in Valentia.
Great work as usual Mekkah! I miss being able to listen to these on my drives around town but it’s still nice having this around.
Is it too late to ask for green unit tier list for April Fools's?
YES. PLEAASSSSEEE
Rausten Knights and Gilbert F-tier.
Rausten Knights for actively seeking out their suicide, to the point that the reward for saving them is basically unknown, or Gilbert, for the comedy of him being there to help you, but being absolutely worthless, and actually making the chapter harder if you don't just ignore him.
Nils takes an honorable mention for shifting his sprite 90 degrees in response to danger.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 S tier for Zephiel since even as a green Unit he destroyed Mangs completely. :D
The S-tier is, of course, 3-13 Archer.
Me when I get Miledy:
And she's flying!
And she's flying!
And she's flying!
HIgher! The queen of the skies!
She's flying too fast and she's flying too high
Higher, an eye for an eye
The legend will never die!!!
(It's a reference to the Song "The Red Baron" by Sabaton)
epic_Awesome Gameplays Good reference.
*She's flying too fast and she's flying too high
@@snapplefaxs8704 oopsies, corrected the error
Last time I was this early Haar hadn't woken up yet
I got here 9 hours later, Haar is still asleep.
I played a LOT of Birthright (I think my time played exceeded like the 999 hour limit?), so there's quite a bit I could tell you there. Scarlet is really good in Birthright for the fact that she joins about mid game I think? And like Ryoma, she brings a lot to the table, including:
-Reliable stats. Her Speed, Def, and Strength is pretty good at that point of the game.
-Crit rate. Normally, she wouldn't stand out here as her skill isn't particularly high like a certain sniper, but her personal skill makes it so when she's hurt to a certain point, she gets a massive crit rate.
-Birthright really suffers for reliable flying units. Reina is a good prepromote but she's frail, and can be easily overwhelmed. Hinoka needs to be fed a bit before her stats are passable, and even when she excels, she falls off toward the end of the game. Tsubaki is generally either just ok or not worth using, as he doesn't really stand out in combat outside of being a flyer. As a result, Scarlet really shines in Birthright as an always reliable flyer. Just watch out for bows and magic, and she will excel.
I'll never forgive IS for what they did to her in Revelations.
I similarly don't have a lot of experience with Cherche. I think I played Awakening 3 times? But what I do remember is that she was pretty good too. I think the main thing about Cherche is her Strength and Defense as a flying unit making her really handy at striking and tanking physical units, so long as they didn't have wyrmslayers or were accompanied by an out of reach archer. At the end of the day, I do think she'd still fit in B tier though, as she isn't as useful as Scarlet was and by end game there were still some enemies she couldn't take out in one turn, thus making it necessary for her to either have another unit mop up or set up kills for her.
21:28 - Agree with this. Fliers always get the Boots. Being able to gank ballistas, killer-weapon users, stave jerks, and siege tomes and then get the hell out of there is so good in Fire Emblem. Miledy being able to reliably kill while also having enough bulk to survive sniping enemies gets her an easy S-tier. It's why I always bring myself to baby Tate and Zeiss even though they're pretty shaky as units; just having three or four units able to snipe, say, the Silver and Killer Lance cavalry makes things so much smoother.
Hot take: Claude is the best unit in three houses because not fighting at range in maddening is a pitfall.
He’s also a flier who can canto out of range and pass post-timeskip, his mobility is insane
He also doesnt need to train much to become a wyvern lord unlike the other 2 lords, he only needs to train to become a rider but he gets his last tier flying class for free
Depends on how you play. You can, and I did, just send Dimitri into range of 5+ units, even on Maddening, and laugh, and that's without DLC because Chalice makes him just funny. Edlegard isn't far behind although a bit different. Claude can't do that, he can pick off more easily but he can't tank nearly as much, and tanking is really nice in FE games especially for people that try to play faster/efficient.
@@nahte123456 I'd say that... Idunno if claude is actually the best of the lords, but I'd ALSO note that a flying archer is just good in general and I wish there were better options (although I also realize that a Bow Knight, Except it can Fly, could be pretty stupid)
nahte123456 Claude is an insanely good dodge tank tho although Dimitri can shoulder all the hits, Claude can be sent into a range of enemies and not get hit at all if you build him right
Interesting to see how your opinions have changed slightly since the top 15 video you made. Miledy was the bottom of the top 15 list and here you have her over people that placed higher like RD Haar and RD Jill. And honestly I think I agree with that because her relative power is so much better than theirs. Jill's placement is especially interesting because she's bottom A here but was in the top 15.
I hope you revisit the top 15 video like you've said you want to. It's one of my favorites that you've made, and now that you have more experience with Fates and 3H being released, I think a newer one will be great too.
This has made me think that I’d love to see you do a tier list for each games of the classes, Wyvern S tier in all of course, but still, love to hear your thoughts.
Thank you Mekkah for the beautifully done tierlist on some of my personal favorite units to use. Maybe I’m biased but I’d place RD Jill a tiny bit higher above Beruka just because of how she ends up carrying Dawn Brigade every time I play RD but overall they are all very accurate placings.
Beruka is a tiny bit underrated still generally, but I actually agree with this. Both are strong units that just need the tiniest bit of investment to flourish, but Jill in Radiant Dawn just carries you through some maps in a way that Beruka doesn't. Not enough to group Jill with the godly three of course, but maybe the top of A. At least of the games I've played.
Beruka is a tiny bit underrated still generally, but I actually agree with this. Both are strong units that just need the tiniest bit of investment to flourish, but Jill in Radiant Dawn just carries you through some maps in a way that Beruka doesn't. Not enough to group Jill with the godly three of course, but maybe the top of A. At least of the games I've played.
I am going to add these characters from TearRing Saga and Berwick Saga
Raffin: (Yes I know he doesn't start off as Wyvern but he becomes one so...I count him) Best unit in TearRing Saga hands down. He has the best availability, can use spears indoors, has canto at base, solid bases and growths, plus one personal movement when normally his starting class Commanbo Knight only has 7 moves so...he actually 8 moves when outdoors and 5 moves when indoors and he promotes again into a Wyvern like holy shit...he gains wings. So overall Raffin is just....S or high A tier...like he still keeps the bonus of being a Commando Knight even when he promotes so...yea he just that good. He basically Seth that can fly later on.
Larentia: Her bases aren't that great, her join time is mediocre, her skills are nice, her weapon level isn't that great, she fragile and doesn't promote at all. Even so...she still one of the best units in the game (Not the! Best unit in the game) as in Berwick Saga filers can not be attacked by any melee weapons and her utility is super nice as she the only filer you get in Berwick Saga...yea no one else can be a filer beside her. Her recruitment requires is also piss easy but overall...I don't know where to rate her...if we rating her combat then she lower C tier but...if we are rating her on her utility then...High A tier or even S tier? Like her combat isn't that great....but her utility saves her.
Let's keep this trend going by making tier lists for the pegasus trio!
Kinda disagree on Cyrils placement. Unlike most Concecutive combat arts that characters learn naturally Cyril learns his at C+ rank unlike Seteths and Sylvains A rank for Swift strikes. Why is this important? Because it takes more time and resources to reach the skill in order for you to take full use of it. Seteth dosen't have access to it immidiately since he arrives at a B+ rank in lances in the final chapter. Cyril however comes right out of the box with strenghts and proficencies in areas that matter. Axes and bows at C. You can have him learn point blank immidiately in the same month you recruit him, giving him quite the unique advantage like Seteth. However unlike Seteth Cyril comes earlier and with better access to his brave combat art.
I get your point on Wyvern overinflation in 3H, but his positives should at least grant him a place in low B tier since he has the earliest availability to recruit from outside your house (Excluding Sylvain F!Byleth), his early access to both the brigand class and point blank volley (A skill that only he and Leonie can learn. Her learning it at A rank), and his proficencies in axes,flying and bows only speeding up the process for him to reach wyvern lord. Still good video tho!
But he absolutely sucks as a combat unit. Correct me if I’m wrong, but aptitude doesn’t actually add 20% to all his growths, it just multiplies them all by 1.2. That still gives him terrible growths in most important areas, especially strength. Aptitude is just a lineage skill but on a terrible unit.
Nope! It actually just adds 20% on growths.
fireemblemwiki.org/wiki/Aptitude
Although to compensate they made him have terrible base growths at around 30%-40% which is what he auto levels with untill you recruit him.
Luckily he is recruited kinda early in AM and AW making his growths in Str and SPD . But he's kinda bad in Church route since he joins just before timeskip.
And as a combat unit he has access to arts that are quite valuable and he is only weak in reason magic making him quite versetile in classing.
The double bow art being only available to him and Leonie meaning he is guaranteeed to double attack on Player phase lets him deal with Fliers pretty easily. He also has access to vengence and with an Hp growth of 75% (on recruit) I doubt he won't be able to use it.
I love that dismounting is a disadvantage for flyers, yet they have more move than archers in FE3 when dismounted
Flying units (Pegasus Knights especially, but I still adore my Wyverns!) have always been my favorite due time so I was really freaking happy to see this.
Does this count as a Heath mini-WAIFU?
Don't forget, in FE5 dracoknights have the worst dismounting penalties.
Something I do with Heath is give him a speedwing, as you get one around the time he joins, and it helps him quite a lot. You may also consider giving him a secret book to help with his somewhat shaky hit rates, but his high skill growth can quickly remedy that. It can be fun playing FE7 with 3-5 fliers, although I've never used Florina.
Huh? 6 fliers? Am I missing a flier somewhere? Also Florina is on par/better than Fiora if you give her some exposure in Lyn mode and I agree that the Heath exposure goes a long way
@@0y1on
Ah, I miscalculated, I'll edit that.
I have a bit of a bias against early joining pegasus knights, but I'm slowly breaking that bias.
@ZXKW I feel you I also formed a bias against early Pegasus knights probably because Wyvern knights tend to replace them because of their bulkier stats.
@@orange6259 Using one flyer is a pitfall
Makes my gosh darn day whenever I see a new one of these pop up after work
S+ Dracoknight Jagen
Ah but consider: Dracoknight Wendell.
Lmao, Beruka over FE9 Jill. You need to play CQ Hard or Lunatic, my man. That speed just doesn't cut it
As true ad that statement is, Beruka isn't meant to kill stuff unless your using dual strikes. No, Beruka's job is sitting her ass down and soaking up damage (which is a valuable niche given CQ's endgame)
@@bb-chan4849 You have bernie who did better at soaking up damage after getting wary fighter. Camelia also don't really belong to S tier and better than Haar.... There is no haar in conquest lunatic, Camelia is good but if you know what to do, you probably will use orphelia, Corrin, Percy more instead.
@@youtubedeletedmyaccountlma2263 She is the best combat unit in Conquest for most of the game, and she has incredible availability. Not putting her in S would be silly, and she's too low if anything.
Two things, One nice video and ProZD reference. King dragon sends his regards. Two I think it would be really cool if once you do all the classes and archetypes you did a tier list for each individual game FE1 onwards. Just an idea even if you don't do it keep up the great work I love your content you and mangs do great giving me something to watch during these trying times and bring a smile to my face with your guys' silly jokes and clever information being very nice to know about. Even as a veteran to the series you two still manage to teach me new things about FE regularly. :D
An interesting tier list id like to see are final bosses/map rated based on how its gameplay is how stratigically challanging it is, how fun it is to play and how it concludes the story.
Fe awakening: bullshit tier.
Conquest: bullshit tier
Echoes: actually a good map if you'd only remember how to beat Jedah and not try to squeeze all your Units past him. :D
Fe7: Simple but effective design so far my favorite endgame-map.
I always arena abuse heath and he turns out pretty good and I usually send him and sain as a tag team force in the later chapters.
Miledy is essential to beating the harder stages in binding blade.
Cormaq is an amazing draco knight but just about every sacred stones character is pretty good.
I've played the gba games along with fe4 so I'm not very sure about every other character on the tier list.
The fact that you arena abuse him proves he's not that good. I thought he was so cool back when FE hit the States, but now I find him meh.
Late but on the topic of claude, you missed thebest part about him
He starts with D+ bows so after 1-2 sessions he will already have close counter
After this you virtually dont have to put any training resources into him
Early game action economy is pretty bad and having a good unit require nothing to become a wyvern is extremely valuable. Edel has to spend time leveling flying and lances while iirc dimitri is working through a bane. Claude meanwhile just needs to quickly hit C bows then he can just auto train whatever' usually just more bows and authority though
Since we're also talking claude, then this is obviously in the context of golden deer where we have a B rank warp bot who can start skipping come the gautier inheritance, meaning that earlier mounts in this routes context is less valuable. Now ofc once we do hit time skip, claude has a 0 investment wyvern and pass allowing for the easiest possible skips. Another note, bosses move first in 3 houses, you you can use falle star to EP turn 1 kill of he cant get a needed crit, and having 0 chance of death
I love this class. I also like playing FE7 and 8 on randomizer for shits and giggles. A memorable Sacred Stones one gave me 4 wyvern riders in the first three levels, i almost jizzed from happiness.
I really disagree with claude being the worst of the main characters in three houses steel bow curved shot is really really good in early gane maddening especially with hilda giving him 3 attack he probably is the one to get in to the class the fastest with less investment. dimitri especially struggles to get there. While everybody gets wyvern in three house he is the only one with bowfaire and bow are broken in three house getting him to get close counter.
Dimitri is the one who struggled the least for me in all Routes. Claude had the issue of being squishy and i couldn't safely set him anywhere because he'd get 2 or 3-shot. Didn't have these issues with Edelgard nor Dimitri (the latter being very consistent throughout the game about murdering whatever is in front of him and barely taking any physical damage) who are strong, sturdy and decently fast. Dimitri usually ends up in a rider-class while Edelgard aspires to be.. no surprise here, as a wyvern in my playthroughs. (Tried her as an armour knight once. It was alright.. but she'd always end up dead last on the field)
But at part 2 it starts turning around. Claude is easily the best (granted all are in their game-given class) due to sheer mobility. The sad drawback that Claude gets is, that he looses the +1 range on bow attacks but nothing a nice art can't fix). He has a few issues against def-heavy Units where Edelgard and Dimitri would just smash through with their monstrous attack, but considering his speed and range as well as Canto, makes more than up for it.
I think comparing claude to Dimitri or Edelgard is like comparing apples and pears. Their function is completely different on the field. Claude is a hit-and-run-type while Dimitri and Edelgard just stand there, walking headfirst through the walls.
All the dracoknights also have spiky hair, and generally look pretty serious in addition to having similar armor to each other, hence the distinctive look.
And here we are, Mekkah’s favorite class. On that note, I’m actually interested in other FEtubers’ favorite classes. Do we know any of them?
Are there enough options for a Pent archetype tier list? Pent, Saleh, Calill, Bastian, Ced, etc.? That would be cool to see, if so.
Technically, I'd consider that the Wendell. Mid-joining, prepromoted magic-user, who tends to have some kind of student-teacher relationship with another unit.
I'd say Minerva from FE1 is A-tier, because she is the best candidate for all the stat boosters just like FE10 Jill. She only needs one speed wing to raise her speed from 6 to 12 and be able to one round all the generic enemies on enemy phase. You can also give her the boots to raise her movement to 14 (though Marth makes better use of them to seize faster).
Glad to see Beruka doing so well, easily my favorite wyvern.
im curious if you ever plan on expanding content to other strategy/ tactics/ rpg games
like maybe divinity, or civ, or the new final fantasy remake. any sort of game that would be considered a game with similar features to FE or if you plan on staying franchise loyal
Can confirm I missed cormag because I two turned the chapter.
Did you rush the boss with Vanessa or what? :D
Bernie as a wyvern? I never thought of it. I tested her as a Peg -> Falcon and mostly kept her as a sniper in Maddening. That Bane in axes and neutral in flying seems hard to overlook for me
Personally Seteth is an absolute monster from his insane stats. He's like what you said having high atk, spd and def but as well as being able to go where ever he wants cuz of 8 mv. I always recruit him and he's a real G in all of my playthroughs so far
Alright, I definitely think you're selling Altena short by quite a bit. First off on the availability front, she exists for two chapters plus some of part 9. There's only six chapters in the second generation, so she exists for a bit more than a third of the generation. Zeiss exists for 11 chapters (ignoring 16 since he's never going to do anything beyond visit the secret shop at best) out of 30. Also slightly more than a third of the game. Their availability is actually pretty much identical, and *way* better than Vaida and Michalis. Vaida only exists for 7 chapters (out of 30ish) and several of those she's not really relevant for (you'll use a healer or thief for 30 and 31x is only possible to mess up if you're Mangs, and she's unimpressive for 32x as well). Michalis has three chapters.
Second, there actually *is* a fair bit of benefit to her ignoring terrain. Chapter 10 has the dark mages by Miletos hiding in forests that she can ORKO (OHKO generally) more readily than anyone else except Fee thanks to flight. Sure she needs Restore/Physic support to stay around and for you to clear out other enemies, but almost every unit needs the same kind of support since only Ares and Claude kids can really handle magic effectively. Then there's the dark mages who go after the children and Palmark. You need to get through a lot of very strong enemies for your mounted units to get to them and it needs to be done extremely fast. Altenna and Fee are extremely helpful in solving this issue entirely. Then the final chapter has some dark mages on cliffs with Sleep/Fenrir, some of whom can't even be attacked at 2 range from the ground and all of whom are tough for non-Forseti magic users to kill, leaving only the bow users to handle even the ones who are close enough. Altenna kills all of these with the right weapon and can reach them all. Flying over mountains also helps make room in the cramped path leading to Dozel castle and for some hit and run tactics against Hilda's crew, which is again a cramped area.
Her speed isn't even bad since it's not like she's locked to Gae Bolg, she has A swords and A lances and will basically always cap speed (and her speed cap is the same as Seliph, who is hardly slow even without Tyrfing's +3 AS), and dark magic is very heavy so even when she can't one shot, she can double (Jormungand is 12 weight, same as Silver Lance and only 3 less than Gae Bolg) except against Manfroy/Julius. And her resistance is likewise not really that problematic in the final chapter - sure, it's low, but few units have good resistance and she does at least have high HP, and she can get +5 from a conversation in chapter 10. It's still a weakness but it's not something that makes her stand out in a bad way.
Personally, I'd probably put her somewhere in the middle of your B tier. She's not spectacular overall, but she has a few specific situations where she does some really helpful stuff, and she has the sheer firepower to contribute even in her less ideal scenarios.
On another note, I wouldn't give Michalis much credit for Dragonpikes, because he can only really use them on mage dragons or already weakened dragons without a Rainbow Potion boost, and even that only holds up in 23 if he switches to Paladin and thus loses his axe rank, and even *that* falls short in Final unless he levels up speed somewhere (which isn't too unlikely, at least). As any lance class, his base speed gets him doubled by fire dragons. He's able to survive a round of combat against most enemies as a Hero and still a lot as a Berserker, so that's still nice considering the last unit to join with bases that let them survive much of anything was like, Leiden if you count instant promotion as "base level", but he's certainly not a difference maker. I feel like in general your assessment of New Mystery units has been based on hard or maniac rather than Lunatic. Lunatic is a lot harsher (Minerva feels this very notably, as she runs into some serious speed issues in the long term) and exposes units who seem fine on lower difficulties.
Jill is definitely S tier in both incarnations, she needs investment but in both cases she's easily the best candidate for that investment, she's the best Dawn Brigade unit and helps you in the hardest parts of the game, it's even arguable she's better than Haar because Jill carries a bunch of scrubs while Haar is a god among lesser gods, and in PoR she needs a bit of BEXP but she's more than worthy of that investment, I'd say she's top 3 in that game after Titania and Marica.
Also Claude in S tier as well, Seteth in A tier, and I think you underrate FE3 Minerva.
Funny thing about Beruka is that she's very useful as a flier but reclassing her to fighter is fun because her speed base is her only real weakness. Fighter not only gives her speed but also +5 HP and gamble which mesh well with her high defense and skill. While Berserkeruka is the superior option, Beruka is of the few that make a pretty good hero. Plus with maxed support with Selena she can get +4 damage on counterattack
After watching your Peg Knight video, I wanted to see if you put Petra in this video. Alas, she's missing. Petra's canon classes are Assassin and Wyvern Rider (This was before how class appearances worked in Three Houses).
I can't believe you did a Wyvern tier list and didn't even include one of the best 3DS-era Wyvern riders - Nichol!
Wait, don't write me off he's actually decent. Nichol is best described as Camilla-lite, but available in all routes. If you were to recruit him as early as possible, his bases will be slightly better than Camilla's, with 6 more points of HP, 1 more point of Strength, 2 more points of Magic, and 1 more point of Skill. Nichol's defense and res will be equal to Camilla, and Camilla will have better Speed and Luck by 2 and 1 points respectively.
Nichol's bases will also be higher depending on how late into the game you are, up until Chapter 23. Unfortunately, there are no resources that say how high his stats are on each increment, so I can't say when the best time to recruit him would be.
He does have several shortcomings, though. Nichol's growths are overall mediocre, being 5 to 10% lower than Camilla's in all areas but resistance, which is nearly cut in half, at 35% compared to 60%. Camilla also has a very useful personal skill in Rose's Thorns. Nichol doesn't even have a unique enemy skill.
Nichol is also weighed down by his recruitment method. Not only does he require Silas - a character that can easily get speedscrewed and hit the bench early on - to be married, but you must also have one of the two units who can use the capture skill to be alive AND must land the finishing blow on Nichol in the Paralogue. Even then you can't use him yet because you must persuade or bribe him to join your army, with the former taking a few chapters and the latter entirely depending on if you have the resources he wants.
He's also unable to support with other units. Not too bad, but definitely makes him a lesser option for a pair-up bot for low-movement units.
In closing, Nichol is a solid unit who is held back by being basically a lesser Camilla. If your Silas isn't being a benchwarmer and you're willing to use Orochi in Birthright, definitely try to recruit him to basically have Camilla in Birthright. In Conquest and Revelation, really only use him if you're low on available units or you got your Camilla killed and want the equivalent of an FE4 substitute. If I were to put him on your tierlist, I'd say somewhere around the middle of C tier, maybe right next to Cyril.
If anyone has any corrections to this, feel free to correct me. I'm only speaking from my experience with him in a couple of playthroughs.
Man I just adore these videos
53:00 Did something happen with Camilla specifically? I'd watch a video on that if you have more to elaborate on about that
I think FE9 Jill deserves to be in S tier personally, this is mostly due to the fact that the next chapter after her recruitment chapter, A Guiding Wind, has both a speed wing and an energy drop, which fixes up her lacking starting game position. I think she is the best candidate for both of those items as well, just simply because she is a flier and she is a lot easier to actually push to become better than Marcia, who is a struggle to use throughout the early game because of her rather low strength (using a Javelin weighs her down to prevent her from doubling things and the jack of dodging actual damage is an issue too) and mediocre defenses. Titania already has enough speed and strength to double and 1RKO most enemies on the map. Jill benefits immensely from both items without being much of a hindrance like Marcia to actually train. And like you said, in FE9, unless in maniac mode, you aren't really struggling for bonus EXP, which you could give Jill like a few levels worth and increase her performance. Having 13 Str (base+energy droplet,) 12 Speed (base+speed wing) is plenty viable, Her pretty solid growth rates allow her to achieve high rates in those too all throughout the game, and her promotion bonuses are also solid. Jill's own base defense of 11 is also really nice at the point she comes in at, and again she has very solid growth rates. I don't think Jill really needs that much bonus EXP if you give her the items from the chapter immediately after her recruitment chapter. Overall she just has bases that are easily able to be augmented, she has 1-2 range weapons at her side, solid availability, and she's just in an overall weak enemy based game, she manages to just snowball the game relatively easily and have dominance over the chapters of the game. She also is a solid user of the full guard which comes in only three chapters later, which allows her to have consistent durability.
Melady is really amazing, but one issue she has is that she just struggles to survive against arrows throughout the game and doesn't have as an easily accessible flying damage negation item, the only one being Narcian's in chapter 16. Which is obviously possible to get, but it is a lot more difficult to get. Of course in an optimal run it's possible to get, it is still extremely dangerous to actually get it with your thieves, which of course makes the run more difficult for Milady because of her lack of access to the Delphi Shield and having flying effective damage.
Of course what I mentioned above can be remedied with git gud, but I suck at fe6, and I did miss the Delphi shield.
Regardless though, I think Jill has an equal level of competence, if not, even higher level of competence in fe9 to Melady with little investment if you merely give her the two stat boosters, she can dominate most of the game.
Of course I am no Fire Emblem in depth guy, and I did argue with a bit of personal experience even though I know that is a pitfall somewhat, but I thought I wanted to raise up those points?
i dont know if you talked about babarosa of claude. I think you forgot to mention it?
Maybe i`m mistaken.
The dragon lance is actually not too hard to get. If you ensorcel (barrier) base salem, he can actually sleep the tornado tome user immediately. If you warp dean onto the house, he can first visit the house and canto away for the lance, then next turn capture for both the tornado tome and a master axe. At this point, you should still have plenty of warp and hammerne uses to get to chapter 21x and steal as many warps as you could need.
Saving the warp and sleep is good too of course, so either option works. Just the way I like to play the chapter.
I dont have much experience using beruka (or much memory of her at least) but i remember her having pretty good defense but such a low hp stat (around 30ish promoted) that it kinda defeats the purpose and there are other units i’d rather use a seraph robe on
I wish for Altenna, you would have mentioned that her game gives her a nice advantage of not taking up a deployment slot since everyone can be deployed in that game.
One time I wanted to do a Dawn Brigade only run through the tower and didn't bring Haar. He still got first place in the combat rankings.
I remember in radiant dawn endgame 4-3, Haar was put to sleep next to the archers in the desert, and the next 5 turns was him getting shot at 8 times each turn, and he would take no damage.
Wyvern riders are always some of the coolest characters. I love me some Camilla, Jill, Haar, and Cherche. I can't wait to see how I like the others when I get around to playing those games.
I remember doing an Ironman of New Mystery where Michalis helped carry my ass due to me losing a lot of guys in Gharnef’s chapter.
Heath is definitely one of my favorite wyvern riders. I always give him Afa's Drops on my FE7 playthroughs
Uh oh Mekkah coughing his time has come
Fun Fact: Altena's armor is just Minerva's armor. I learn this when drawing the former for a FE Halloween drawing event, and was trying to decided who's armor I wanted her to wear.
Their design is so similar that one of my friends bought some FE Cipher card sleeves with Altena's art because he thought it was Minerva.
I've been meaning to ask for a while, but what is the background music for these lists. Some of it sounds like Awakening but I can't place all of it. It's really great. As for this list, I agree with pretty much everything except Radiant Dawn Jill. I think she is top of A tier or bottom of S tier easily. I think she gets a ton of credit for being one of the few good units in an army of mostly bad ones. The Dawn Brigade chapters in part 1 and 3 are the only really hard chapters in Radiant Dawn and she puts in so much work. She does need some favoritism to catch up to Haar but no one else in the Dawn Brigade can really use resources well as you mentioned so I don't penalize her that much for it. I think being a juggernaut amongst weaker units is so much more valuable than being a juggernaut among other juggernauts so I'd definitely put her above her Path of Radiance appearance or Cormag, since those games are just so easy. Great lists though, been enjoying all of them a lot.
The music is from echoes: Shadows of Valentia.
@@nawidherman Thanks. I played Echoes a while back but can't remember much of it. I'll look up the soundtrack if possible, it sounds awesome.
The SoV soundtrack is great. Unfortunately the playlist I got for these was taken down off of TH-cam so I can't link the exact video but it's all just tracks that are in the game as well.
Will we get a lord tier list?
56:10 You underestimate the power of Training Swords before CC access.
Why no child units? I missed the video where he explains why the child units don’t get included in these...
How about a beast/dragon tier list? Sounds like it could be fun.
I know this one is a curve ball, but do a lena/cleric tier list next. That would be fun to see
The only thing that I dont agree with in this video is that you said Cyril "takes work" to get good. In my experience, I have never had to actually baby him. I still agree with where you put him, though
Beruka in A but Cyril in C? Bruh
Mid game joining Sage types
Wendell, maybe Frost, Nomah, FE4 Claud, FE4 Ced, Niime, maybe Jodel, Pent, Saleh, Crimson Flower Lysithia,any Tellius units that fit the bill, etc.
Beruka is probably the most underrated unit in Fates. She's basically a flying armour knight with enough speed not to be doubled, on hard mode she gets to the point where she takes 0 damage from anything that doesn't wield a bow or magic and even on Lunatic her bulk is comparable to Xander.
Oh also she can reclass to Berserker incase there's a map with too many archers.
Seteth and Beruka could probably switch places and FE3 Minerva is kinda low too but otherwise not a bad list.
Personally, I need to gush about Beruka a little because shes one of my favorite units in the entire franchise, not because she's really good or anything, on the contrary, I like her specifically because her avg performance is very restrained compared to her busted brethren.
Its always struck me as odd that despite the Wyvern rider supposedly being the "strong and bulky" flying class, most Wyverns we get as players in FE are simply good at everything because in addition to those traits they're also fast enough to double and as a result become juggernaut monstrosities. This is a phenomenon that dates back to Archanea with the swift pegasus riders becoming Dracos and instantly patching up their stat deficiencies while remaining fast.
Beruka to me is one of the most well designed units in the franchise because she represents what the Wyvern rider should have been all along. Unlike say Miledy or Jill, Beruka isnt blazing fast at all, shes considered a fairly slow character in Fates if not among the slowest. She has a low speed base for her join time, a below average growth in it, AND a negative modifier to her speed cap ensuring even a very speed blessed Beruka will never get too out of control without considerable stat stacking, which fits into her intended playstyle of being a tank rather than a juggernaut, considering her one truly exceptional stat is defense. Even her strength isnt amazing or stand out in Fates, just decent, which in conjunction with axes' high might still makes her hit fairly hard but not on the level of FE10 Haar or anything. For what it's worth she also makes up for axes' lower hit rates with her absurdly high skill, her one other high stat aside from defense.
It's an astonishing contrast to see how well balanced Beruka is (literally) right next to one of the most overhelmingly powerful and dominant units in the entire franchise.
I agree that Beruka is well balanced but I have a hard time seeing her performance as average, that seems to downplay her a bit. Sure compared to a lot of other busted wyvern riders Beruka's nothing special, but she still has flying utility and great defenses, sure her HP is a bit low but that goes for most Fates units along with the lack of good 1-2 range (only Leo, Xander and Ryoma have that). Again she's not amazing, probably belongs in high B tier but she still finds a place on most of my teams easyer than a lot of other units in Conquest and Revelations do.
@@vanjagalovic3621 I think you may have misread that, I wasnt saying her performance was just average relative to other Fates units, shes definitely mid-high or high tier in Conquest. I meant her own performance on average across all playthroughs doesnt generally result in a Jill or Haar type juggernaut.
Jill RD is a S. She is more important to DB than Haar is for GM (remember GM has Ike, Titania and bunch of other powerful units, DB has bunch of weaklings). Jill also has better potential as endgame unit for her higher speed cap. Combine with the fact that RD wyvern riders is not weak to bows, canto, axes being the strongest weapon by far, and again, there's no question Jill is a top tier unit, just a little behind Haar.
I think that Jill's placement is mostly because of 0% growths where she can't really shine and how she needs quite a bit of investment to get going. Of course she's well worth all the investment, but someone like Camilla is comparable in her usefulness to Jill in RD, but Camilla comes with 0 investment needed. Though I agree that she should probably be higher A rank.