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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2020
- A long time ago I did a Christmas Cavaliers Tier List. Now it's time to look into some of the "other", possibly overlooked cavaliers that didn't make it into that video. Note that I'm not including child characters (such as Siegbert), prepromoted characters (such as Perceval) or characters that are of the [weapon] Knight class (such as Fiona, Beowolf, Finn, Makalov, etc). Those will be tackled some other time!
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The Zoran Silas vid I forgot to link: th-cam.com/video/h20KLk-8KeI/w-d-xo.html
I approve of any and all shilling for Zoran in FE discussions. The dude gets way too little views and subs for how well-made his videos are.
@@cartooncritic7045 he is also in birthright as well and is super usable there
Nathan Bisbo It took me way too long for me to realize you were talking about Silas and not the TH-camr/SF user who, to my knowledge, is not named after anyone in particular in any version of Fates.
Playable Hardin: I can wield a silver lance immediately.
Aries: I can wield an anti-magic death sword.
Franz: i can wield magic and fly!
Nonplayable hardin: i am invincible, marth come so i may end you
@Claude Von Riegan Franz: I'm a growth unit with actual availability!
Big Brother Xellos being a growth unit in it self isn’t a bad thing btw, as long as you join early and have allright bases, being a growth unit is actually a massive plus if you meet the criteria’s. Early game cavs in the gba games generally have really good growths in all areas
@@arman_llc624 Yes, that what being a growth unit with actual availability literally entails.
Now this is a Matthis Moment
Tfw you can use silvers at base, can double reliably in FE1, have overall solid bases in FE3 book 2, and decent/mediocre in FE11 but rank lower than Vyland who's just overall worse than Matthis in every appearance.
One aspect of Peri that nobody seems to really talk about is cooking. She's tied with Jakob, Peri and Anna for being the best at the mess hall, increasing the boosted stats by +1 and a random stat by +2
She’s tied with herself?
If lowen isn't on top i scream
I second this
Gunna be hard with franz on that list ngl
prep your vocal chords
Hawkecrail Nah, lowen is far from S tier
Lowen poopy
"Franz > Ares because better Availability"
Ok Understandable
"Vyland > Matthis Even though Matrhis has Better availability, Growths, Weapon level and Level at the cost of a few points of Luck and Skill"
I know It is a meme to To treat Matthis like Garbage but for this Serious Tier List, Matthis should be > Vyland.
I don't know I made both a healer so I can get weapon exp in magic with Lena and Maria on My H5 platrough(I know pretty dumb) and Mathis, Vyland and everyone else who has access to the healer class and didn't have good bases died so My other units weren't in danger
Vyland is a meat shield for wolf and sedgar while matthis is just a generic meat shield. Therefore vyland > matthis.
I appreciate the shout-outs, Mekkah!
I rate Peri a little lower than you do. She has a neat personal skill, and Cavalier is a great starting class. However, cavalry classes have real problems from chapter 17 to chapter 21. They just don't have great matchups for most of that time, and for 20 and 21, extra grounded movement isn't all that important. This hurts Paladin and Great Knight the most; Dark Knight and Bow Knight can mitigate some of the issues.
The other three cavs in Conquest have easier ways to build out from their starting class. Silas has Merc for the Bow Knight option, and he also joins very early, so he has a long time to build supports. He can get Wyvern from Camilla or Beruka, or he can reach A+ with Kaze for Ninja, both around chapter 17. Gunter and Xander have Wyvern built in.
Peri gets Dark Mage, which just doesn't do much for her. Lifetaker is cute with Bloodthirst, but she's not getting it any time soon, and it's not worth the effort anyway. So she has to look for help from her support options. Her best is A+ with Selena for Bow Knight. Bows can help her activate her personal skill more easily, and if you do a paralogue between chapter 12 and chapter 17, she can potentially unlock the class in time for Ninja Hell.
Bow Knight Peri does make a great partner for Xander, so she has that going for her.
Matthis getting screentime now we are talking
Matthis in the non DS game is quite ok. His weapon level is 8 which in the DS games would be the equivalent of B lances and C swords meaning he's got killing edges, levin swords, wyrm slayers, silver lances, and of course the ridersbane at his disposal. Definitely in the upper mid tier. IDK why the DS games scrubb'd on him so hard but he's better than Vyland in every incarnation. SD is the only game where they are mildly close to another (Vyland's higher base stats is litterally 1 skl and 1 luck). However I'd still give the contest to Matthis since he has functionally the same avail, has better growths in HP, STR, and DEF which is also they really care about and is a higher base level so he needs less kill feeding to reach promotion. He's junk in that game for sure but he's definitely the prettier garbage. Vyland is really gutter trash in all incarnations. Roshea is trash in OG but workable in both Book 1 and SD. Could stand to go over Callion.
In Book 2 you can use everyone but some units are better than others and Cavs are the units that tend to be weaker. They still have good places to contribute but there is no value to running more than 2 cavs in the game. Since everyone likes running Sirius the second cav is usually a competition between Cain, Matthis, Cecil, Luke, Rody, and Arran. Matthis does fairly well here since his relatively high base level of 4, the fact that he ORKO's with the ridersbane and his above average bulk enables him to get to level 10 quite quickly. I'd consider the contest to be Cain > Arran > Matthis = Cecil > Luke > Rody. For those lower four Cavaliers however I'd probably put them all in C tier as I mentioned Cavs get kinda screwed over in book 2.
For New Mystery however I'd say your rating are fairly accurate. The units are just so much different in this game compared to Book 2 it just feels weird to mix them together.
Also hot take but I think Noah is roughly on par with Alen/Lance when you get him. Only if you get lucky where their growths or shower them with more EXP than they deserve do they really outshine him at the time he joins. That doesn't mean I think Noah should move up, just that I think the community largely overrates FE6's christmas cavs.
To be fair Alan/Lance both have better availability and growths than Noah and have possibly even gotten a support going between themselves in a more casual playthrough. Noah does have better bases, but there's a limit to the "bases > growths" argument, as Noah isn't anything to write home about at base. Still, C rank swords at base is pretty nice.
¡¡noah justice!!
allance's stats do _tend_ to be better the majority of the time, but i really doubt it makes much difference since itd be like 1-2 str and spd difference, theyd still be worse/on par with zealot generally - meanwhile noah does have his own advantages (silver sword, better luck (lance does face crits vs generics))
@@jellyunicorn8347 Noah is gonna have to wait for a while before he reaches A swords for the silver sword as his promotion only gives lance rank and the first silver sword you get is going to Rutger anyway.
Noah's sword rank is mostly overhyped as Alance are gonna have D swords by chapter 7, where steel swords are buyable and Noah isn't gettimg the killing edge from chapter 7 because it's going to Rutger. Later on, by the time Noah reaches A rank in swords Perceval has already joined and Rutger has reached S rank in swords and lance enemies become more common which just makes Noah's C rank in swords irrelevant most of the time.
@@vanjagalovic3621 no, paladins get +1 sword rank as well. rutger doesnt generally need the silver sword since he is better with wo dao/killing edge.
also by the time percival joins none of the cavs (allance, noah) are all that relevant anymore in terms of combat. again, theyre statistically similar to zealot's and he also has fallen off by that point. their last good chapter is like ch 13.
@@jellyunicorn8347 Yeah, I stand corrected. I forgot how nuts promotions in FE6 were, but I still don't find Noah much better. I'd rate Alance similar to what you'd rate Zelots on a faster playthrough and rate Noah a tier lower than those three.
I know it's because they're both SNES portraits but jesus, FE3 Rody looks like proto Leif in the same vein of FE3 Samson looking like proto Sigurd.
I do find it weird you put Rody and Luke on this list since they are technically the Christmas Cavs of New Mystery and it's more Cain and Abel being the "other cavs" Cain especially
A bit disappointed that you overlooked Matthis' performance in fe3 where he has a way better base wlv than most of your units and has stats aren't far behind or are pretty even with your other cavs by the time you get him in both books. I'd say his fe11/12 description is good though.
I actually looked into Matthis's weapon level compared to the other cavs. Kain and Abel have 90% and 70% growth respectively (to Matthis's 70%) and it only takes 7 wlv to use Silver Lance, which is the only high level lance in the game other than Gradivus. It takes 1 proc for Abel and 2 for Cain to be able to use Silver Lance, which they can get easily by the time Matthis joins. And then they only need to get to 12 by the Camus chapter which is also easy to do. So I don't think there's a real advantage for Matthis there unless I'm missing something.
While I suppose this is fair for book 1 you're forgetting about book 2. With his base wlv he can use a dragon slayer and survive one round of combat since most of the dragons deal 20 flat damage and he has 21 HP. Compared to your starter cavs like Luke with 5 wlv with a 40% growth and roderick with a base of 5 and a 60% growth, both with base 20 hp. This means Matthis comes good right out of the box for dragon spam chapters (which are semi frequent in book 2). While he would have to dismount, a lot of these chapters are indoors anyway like the fire tribe one and endgame. Also in other categories he ties or surpasses both of the ones I mentioned.
While yes they can level up weapon level a ton by the time you do get to dragon spam chapters, so can Matthis whose growth rates aren't even bad by fe3 standards. Also it's not like Rody and Luke, or even cain and abel per your example will grow much by the time the time you meet matthis in chapter 3 and 4 respectively.
Really there's no disadvantage to using Matthis in these situations, compared to Vyland and Roshea who you ranked higher than Matthis even though Matthis has either better bases in wlv or equalish in other areas.
At the end of the day sure there's Cain and Abel, or Roderick and Luke who you can train and use, but that does't mean Matthis *isn't* good right out of the box in fe3 and fe1 to some extent, or better than Roshea and Vyland in their fe11 appearances.
By the way I mean no disrespect with this comment, I just like Matthis a lot and think he gets undersold because of the "lena where are you" meme and other stuff like that. Big fan of your work and I hope you reevaluate your opinion of him in the future.
@@5Points 5 points was already preaching the word of our lord and savior Matthis before it was cool
I appreciate how kevin got a level to put his portrait on screen while you were talking about treck
Cleric/Bishop Roshea is my favourite FE11/FE12 meme unit, Mekkah mentioning how bad he is made me kinda happy lol
I like when Matthis yells "Lena, where are you?" while attacking her.
Also big agree on Clive. People like to give him shit but he's actually pretty good.
DatIG You do gotta keep in mind, the fact that mekkah’s clive is hella blessed and got speed from the shrine, and even with those boosts, he is still comparable to Mathilda.
Clive isn't Mathilda (and Gray or Kliff as cavalier would be better too). But cavalier are better in open field Alm maps vs Celica swamps and desert. So Clive is both helped and screwed: there's more competition on Alm route but the route itself is better for cavalry than swamp and desert. But in Echoes there wasn't any unit limitations for teams, since everyone could be deployed.
@@arman_llc624 Haven't really watched Mekkah's Echoes playthrough at all so that doesn't really influence my opinion. I just think that Clive has a really solid start in a good class that makes good use of the Ridersbane. And I agree that he's comparable to Mathilda, but that doesn't really make him any worse since Mathilda is also really solid.
DatIG Well the thing is in a regular play through he isn’t comparable to mathilda, On average he is really slow, the biggest thing he has over her are availability and levels. Forged riders bane is really good but being part of the cav class isn’t an automatic win for characters, as the classes are a lot more balanced in echoes
@@arman_llc624 I mean I would consider Mathilda to be a bit better than him when she joins (depending on his levels too), but yeah considering that she isn't even better across the board (she has worse physical bulk and his str is also likely to be better at that point), I think his availability makes up for that. 9 spd (promotion+fountain) should also at least make him not get doubled for a while. And I don't see how Mathilda being good makes Clive bad anyway, Echoes doesn't have a deployment limit so "competition" for anything other than exp isn't really a thing, use both.
predicted talking point: Lowen is better than Sain and Kent (if you don't play Lyn mode)
@Samuel Duff
The benchmarks for doubling are pretty low in FE7 given the low enemy stats. Lowen is probably good enough once he hits speed threshold. But if he doesn't, that just makes him worse since the enemies aren't very impressive overall.
@@l.n.3372 He might double but he struggles with ORKO's as the game goes on. Especially with 1-2 range weaponry compared to Sain. He's probably still better than Kent though.
@@sergeizinovijev99
I've only played FE7 once so I don't claim to be the ultimate authority. But in my game, Lowen was tanky enough to barely take damage from anything beyond a mage, and had enough strength to deal significant blows. He wasn't fast for me but it didn't matter when he was tanking like a champ. He didn't hit speed threshold til very late but it didn't matter cuz FE7 wasn't that challenging on a first playthrough
Sain and Kent were both great tho and I used all 3. My army was heavily cavalry and fliers.
Sergei Zinovijev I agree with you, lowen definitely has trouble one rounding enemies with javlins in the mid game, He is decently tanky but I would much rather have a offensive oriented cavalier then a defensive one, cause enemies in fe 7 are too weak to be of any threat. Lowen overall is a really good unit, but I still kinda prefer sain, cause he has no trouble clearing out enemies with that massive 60 percent str, seriously why is this man this strong?
@@arman_llc624 sain must be sneaking steroids. to impress the babes.
Great video as always, though I disagree with some placements this time.
Vyland is not a tier better than Matthis in any game they are comparable. He is strictly worse in FE3 where they have the same base stats almost identical growths, but Matthis at least has a slight availability lead. Vyland has a superior speed growth in Shadow Dragon, but also loses an additional chapter in availability. I would put both of them in E tier, there is almost no difference in how bad they are.
Luke is clearly A tier in FE12, where he is one of the only early game units worth investing in. But he is decidedly outclassed by Cecil in FE3. She has superior bases, arguably better growths and access to the Lady Sword for great indoor combat.
Lord Tier list when??? Also please rate the FE9/10 units you left out(astrid, fiona, makalov) as well as the later game paladins
RD Ike seems like he would be at the top if only due to Ragnell and his obnoxious abilities
@@QuantemDeconstructor Sigurd would be higher than FE10 Ike. Sigurd's like Seth being your lord. Horse in one of the most horse-oriented games, high growths and great bases, but since he's not a higher level than enemies, he gets EXP at a normal speed. He also excels in the best weapon type in his game and he has Pursuit (which allows him to double since it's not unconditional in FE4). Seliph is also better than Ike. He eventually gets a horse, but you can also pass down things like a paragon band or leg ring or a high kill count brave or silver sword. That helps him get that coveted horse. In the lategame, he's indispensable because of Tyrfing giving him so much resistance in the mage infested Gen 2 lategame.
RD Ike is great, but he's not the best character in his army. That goes to Haar quite easily. Also, characters like Mia aren't that far away from matching his offense. Once he gets Ragnell he's even better, but I feel like Ragnell just prevents him from being a liability in rout-fest Part 4 and late Part 3 since you can't forge wind edges (and if you could, they'd probably still be too weak to cut it). As for the tower, it's not like Ike's holding a candle to the laguz royals. 1-2 range is great, but formshift is just absurd when while transformed they have higher stats than any beorc in basically everything. He's still among your best units at any point in the game, but characters like Sigurd are always by far the best unit.
@@ametaslave7314 that's fair, I think Ephraim would also be high tier due to being a cavalry unit in GBA with access to javelins and spears
of course, he has to compete with his own Jagen-type
@@QuantemDeconstructor Ephraim would probably be above average. His late promotion is kinda annoying for him though. Sigurd always has his horse and Seliph gets it the second he hits level 20, while Ephraim gets it 3/4 into the game regardless of how many kills you feed him. He also has 1 less movement than paladins after promoting, but this is the case in FE8 for most mounted classes except fliers. As Mekkah's put it before, Ephraim's like Raven with lances. Good bases, good growths, but stuck on foot. Being locked to lances definitely helps him out before his promotion. Also, Reginleif is much better than Rapier. In terms of raw stats, it's actually better than the Wolf Beil, and in a game with 3x effectiveness instead of 2x. Ephraim's a solid unit before promotion and then just gets better after it. Seth, Franz, and Vanessa are the best by a good margin in FE8, but Ephraim's by no means bad.
@@ametaslave7314 maybe I need to play more of the series lol, Sigurd sounds completely busted
Obligatory Kaga Saga comment
Esther/Estelle: Not all that great. She does get paragon but it's super late. She can be ok if u choose to invest in her and has a workable promo in Silver Knight. Just overall unremarkable bases and lacking in wpn level. Probably D tier.
Narron (ig?): Godly, one of the best 1st Wellt choices next to Lee. Paragon at base and him being on par roughly with Esther, Arkis and Kreiss in map 2 allows him to snowball to lv10 quickly and there is a knight crest in c3 basically made for him where he can easily promo by c3 or c4 making him one of the best Runan Route units alongside Raffin and Zieg. He also has the best promo gains in TRS and gains a ton of skills fairly quickly like Lethality, Pavise, Adept and Canto. This also makes him a strong Super proof candidate as well if u want to increase his level cap since only paragon users come close to reaching their level caps. Whether or not Lee or Narron is better still remains a debate to this day but easy S tier. Late!Narron is like a B tier probably cuz Holmes route and comparable to San.
San/Sun: joins at the same time as Frau about halfway through split 1, she does have underwhelming bases but can reach paragon in 3 levels and has canto at base which is nice. Paragon more or less carries her as she can reach promo after feeding her some kills in one of the forced skirmishes. Her promo is pretty good as she gets flurry (imagine accost but on player phase) as a Black knight and can get Luna at lv 25 which she can reach feasibly with paragon. She's basically discount Narron in a way. B tier.
Vestaria Saga a bit harder to quantify who is a non Cain and Abel but imma assume Troy and Merida as the duo in VS
Urvan: comes in a map where u get the Argent Saddle and is the only cav with the ability of 1-2 range prior to promo. He can get a lot of kills on that map since it's only him and Hoelun deployed on that map with Hoelun being limited and needing to go around the map. He does face sone competition from Early!Merida for that Argent Saddle unless u bought another one and he doesn't quite have a prf to carry him. He's decent but his placement I'm not too sure quite frankly cuz his bases are decent and workable. Probably a Low B to high C tier?
You didn't cover Berwick saga? Let me remedy this flaw! (Even if it is a bit late)
Elbert: He's a really good unit on paper, but in practice I don't find him quite as good. He is sort of a mini Jagen (haha) with really solid base stats, especially defensively, as well as high sword and shield skill. His growths are pretty good too, he has near-perfect, free availability and is mounted. His skills aren't the greatest, but they're decent. Arrowbane doesn't really do that much for him, seeing as most bow enemies in Berwick saga are weak and Elberts defence is superb, but it can sometimes be nice, especially against ballistae. Provoke is a good skill that can get you out of some tight spots, but it requires careful positioning. Overall his skillset is okay, but, like many mounted units he lacks that offensive punch. He has a mutual support with Christine, but the bonuses it gives are very low. He starts at level 5, which doesn't sound too high, but you level slowly in Berwick saga and you get drastically lowered experience gains from defeating lower leveled enemies (To the point where I think Elbert doesn't even get exp from killing chapter 1/2 enemies), so it's advisable not to take too many kills with Elbert early on, even though he has good growths. However, the thing that sort of kills his otherwise amazing utility is his promotion. Unfortunately, his promotion requires him to reach 20 spear skill, but he just starts with 5 and has a 30% growth, meaning you will have to almost exclusively use spears with him in the early game. Because his spear skill sucks so much, his accuracy will suffer a lot, making him unreliable and annoying to use. After promotion, however, he is really good, as he gets a nice stat boost, is able to use swords again, gets medium shields, and should have built up enough spear skill to reliably use them (at least when Reese and Christine are nearby). Alternatively, you could just exclusively use swords on Elbert and never peomote him, which will make him a good mini-Ward and overall decent mounted unit, but you will have to replace him later on. Honestly, I think that this might be a better use for him. I would put him in upper B tier for his flexibility to perform as both a short term and a long term unit and be solid as both. However, not any higher as no matter how you use him, he will never be good throughout the whole game.
Ruby: Ruby is a pretty bad unit, probably the worst rider in the game, besides maybe Adel. Her base stats are mediocre, around the same as that of Leon, Adel and Reese but slightly later, and with much worse weapon skill, meaning her accuracy will suffer. Her growth rates are okay, with her speed and weapon skills being very high, but everything else a bit average, which can result in mediocre stats when paired with her unremarkable bases. Her skills are alright, axebreaker is pretty good and paragon helps her get going a bit quicker, throw is some nice utility, adept is good but comes too late to have any real impact. Ruby also has supports with Arthur, a pretty good unit, but small support bonus, and Clifford, pretty big bonus for one of the best units in the game. Overall, she is a growth unit that mainly engages in self-improvement pre-promotion. Unfortunately, even when trained her kit just doesn't stand out that much. She can run into strength issues, which can mostly be fixed by equipping a spear, but because of the high weight this sort of eliminates one of her few niches, being a mounted unit that can counter 1-range enemies fairly easily. Other than that, she mostly just has axebreaker and the ladyblade. Her recruit condition is actually a bit late, but it doesn't matter that much because she's cheap to hire anyway. Really, the main reason to train Ruby is to recruit and support Clifford, which can really save you a headache because he is expensive as heck. I would put her around D Tier for being a unit that contributes little at the start while still not being that remarkable later on. If you count recruiting Clifford as her doing, I suppose the argument could be made for bumping her up to C though because he is just that good.
Matthis' placement bothers me, especially considering he's better than Vyland and Roshea in all of his appearances
Matthis moment
For FE3 book 2 and FE12, definitely, his availability and time to grow outshines both of them, and in FE1 and FE3 book 1 his bases aren’t trash because of the easier difficulty, but, I don’t think Roshea is worse than Matthis in FE11 because I don’t find Matthis’ single extra available chapter better than Roshea’s extra 1 level, 2 HP, 1 Str, 3 Skl, 1 Spd and 4 Luck (remember, Matthis has 0 base luck, so he faces crit from everything). Additionally, Roshea gets supported by Hardin for an extra little bonus that’s more relevant than Matthis’ support with Lena, who doesn’t often see battle, so they won’t be very close to each other to take advantage of it. Vyland, on the other hand... yeah, I guess Matthis is always equal, if not better than him (but that’s counting FE12 where Roshea and Vyland are Paladins and thus weren’t taken into account in the video).
Silvers at base
I say Roshea >> Matthis due to ridersbane and javelin chip actually doing damage becuase of his decent str. Also, better bases and, in fe1 and fe3b1, supports from hardin
@@rosheajakob Roshea is probably better, but Matthis can javelin and ridersbane as well. However, I think we can all agree Vyland is the worst of the three.
I'll agree with both Peri and Silas.
For Peri, she can be a bit awkward as she joins just after getting units like Camilla and not to long before getting Xander, and her class/weapons are fairly popular so there's no much need to take up a deployment spot for her over Effie, Silas, or Xander. However she is still a good unit overall and has some really nice strats with her personal skill and Stats.
Silas is overall a solid unit in Conquest I'd say bordering on A, however he's amazing in Birthright and good enough in Revelations which puts him ahead of a lot of the cast.
Silas was the savior of my Birthright Lunatic no grinding playthrough, as he was by far my bulkiest unit (guard naginata is amazing for +5 def/res) and the only unit besides Corrin (mine was female so they could marry) who could tank hits and fight back. He became less useful later on due to Sophie’s higher bulk + dragon fang, and Selkie’s 110 avoid, but he was still useful in endgame (though I did reclass him to hero.) Easy A here, possible S. Can we get a tier list for weapon knights next? Finn is one of my favorites and his Thracia 776 version is one of the best combat units in the game outdoors, and he’s still good indoors, plus he has a leadership star, meaning, if nothing else, he makes a great filler unit for +3 hit/avoid.
Perry is OK overall, but suffers from akward join time where she can't get access to tonics like the rest of the army and she is fairly frail. Xander also joins soon afterwards and the cavalier class isn't good enough to justify deploying her over The Royals, Beruka, Niles and a few others which makes her hard to work with. Still a solid enough unit in CQ, B or C tier. Revelations on the other hand. Let's say that she's not as good there.
Eh........
" She can't get access to tonics "
U can literally have her access the convoy from corrin and have her use tonics lol, and even if u didn't, that's literally one map she can't use tonics in since she joins at the beginning
" Xander joins soon afterwards "
So what ? Lol that doesn't hinder her, by your logic then beruka is meh because she joins with camilla
" The cav class isn't good enough "
> Shelter access
> Elbow room
> Defender after promo
> +3 str +2 def
> High mov
Like even if u didn't use her for combat ( which she has good enough like literally orkoing takumi on lunatic at BASE ), shelter strats are broken and good enough to " justify " using her
" She is fairly frail "
GK promo + Def/hp tonics gives her enough bulk, and she still has good enough base def/res
@@mysmallnoman "U can litteraly have her access the convoy from Corrin"
True, but it's kinda annoying how you need to customize her and Laslow's inventory during the map. Not imposdible or anything, just a bit annoying.
"Xander joining doesn't hinder her"
What I was trying to say with Xander joining soon and Leo too is that deployment slots are low and the competition is tight.
Me saying that the cavalier class isn't good enough is comparing it to some of the older games like FE4 where high movement mattered more than anything. Cavalier is still a good class, but not good enough to deploy for just being one, unlike being a flyer.
"Great Knight promo and tonics can fix her relative frailty"
It's true, but I was mostly talking about how Perry has somewhat midlling bases for her join time. Yes, her growths are really good (50% res growth for whatever reason), but her bases hold her back somewhat. She is potentially a better Great Knight pair up partner than Effie, but Effie has likely gotten supports with a few units by the point Perry has joined.
@@samuelscalise9686 Any units is really broken in Dark Flyer and because it's DLC, it isn't used in unit discussions most of the time
Peri can be a great Xander backpack thanks to her personal +strength and speed modifiers, and having a fast support with him (Xander's only fast support that leads to S aside from Corrin). You could have her get Berserker from an A+ support with Charlotte or Bow Knight from A+ with Selena, with BK giving Xander +1 movement, helping Peri with ranged attacks and keeping the horse. She doesn't give Xander a good reclass, but Xander already has Wyvern Lord, so he doesn't really need anything aside from a partner.
This would give you a Xander backpack that isn't entirely reliant on being a pair-up bot (Charlotte isn't particularly good), since outside of pair-up she will still have her great personal skill, a mount (if going Bow Knight) and shelter utility. But yeah, finding the deployment slots for Peri after she joins and then dedicating the effort to make her good is certainly hard to justify.
@@Iriswhatiris Cool idea, but reclassing Peri, giving her an A+ support with 2 units that aren't that great either, then also making her a semi pair up bot for Xander while also trainig her up requires quite a bit of investment despite the fact that Xander has arguably better pair up partners.
Pretty sure all of the Ilian Pegasus knights from both FE6 and 7 have blue armor. Guess it is an Ilian thing.
More of a white/blue color scheme, which also includes every single Ilian there is
Except Zealot/Jerrot, he has a silver armour
good thumbnail
Edit: L*wen was not put in low tier. this angered Yeetus
LOWen. They knew what they were doing when they named him.
😡
Yeetus I know we’re going into deep dark territories here, but how and why did Lowen kill your wife?
Master Knight I can only assume his craven mind was overtaken by jealousy of my fresh drip
Some of these cavs easily beat out the christmas cavs of their games, people like Ares, Lowen and Franz destroy any other cavs in their respective games
>lowen
>destroys sain
LOL
Tbh neither are Great
Outside of lyn mode, Sain and Kent are around even to Lowen
Lowen kinda Sucks but he has a lot of levels to get, even with his 30% growth in most of his Stats
So Putting Lowen at Top tier, where his Uses are mostly as a Rescue-dropper
Ares and Franz yes, but Lowen is probably around Kent/Sain level
Lowen is closer to Kent/Sain than top tier Franz is to Kyle/Forde, or OP Ares is to Noise/Alec
@@corn4618 FE7 enemies are weak so Lowen can still double and one round for most of the game, while paladin gives him control of the weapon triangle. He has better bases than Kent and Sain while joining several chapters earlier, and he has superior defenses so he can also deal with more enemies on enemy phase, and while yes he can fall off late game, he still has more utility than most units due to high aid, move and canto to help carry around foot-locked units like Pent or Harken, so he still could be worth deploying.
ben measey I don’t think an average lowen one rounds enemies In the mid game, His growths in all areas are lacking, even if you give him a couple of levels, Sain and kents bases will still be pretty similar to that of lowens when they join. Lowen will probably double most enemies since they are slow as balls in fe 7 but he cant clear out enemies, since he can’t one round. So even though he has a bigger role in the early game I would say that the Christmas cavs even it out in the mid game, especially sain. I could see kent being worse then lowen but Sain is a different type of beast with that massive str.
Can’t wait for the Arran&Samson/Route split tier list
The Fates section is either going to be really funny or just not present.
I've played through fe1 1 1/2 times and I can vouch that Hardin is pretty good. I found high weapon level to be super important once you start fighting manaketes, since their stupid high defense bonus and the low raw stat caps means you need strong(or effective) weapons to even put a dent in them, and you only get one arms scroll in the game, so you're not going to be able to fix many units who missed too many weapon level levelups.
Ironically, this also makes Matthis kind of good in fe1, his base WL is only one off of Hardin, he can almost always use the silver sword after a single level up, can use levin swords, killing edges, and the all important wyrmslayers at base.
I see some people in the comments arguing that Matthis has an availability lead on Roshea and Vyland, which I think silly. Matthis is available for a part of chapter 4 where there are only a few enemies left and he does barely anything. Roshea and Vyland are forced in chapter 5 and play an important role in helping Hardin, Wolf, and Sedgar stay alive (in FE11). So one could therefore conclude that Roshea and Vyland have slightly more functional availability than Matthis because of their forced active role in chapter 5. Vyland could probably stand to still drop to E tier, but Roshea is significantly better out of the box for short term utility.
Anyway the only placement that I disagree with is Treck, who is too high. Treck is so, so bad. He runs around with like, 13-15 atk hitting enemies that he can't double unless he gains 10+ levels on average. If you cite mounted movement utility, FE6 quickly has more mounted units than it offers deployment slots. Aside from paladins and fliers, you can deploy Clarine for staffing, one of the better cavaliers, or even Sue to chip things without taking a counter. So I don't think he is worth it even for the mounted utility.
Also I would argue that Noah is overall better when early promoted because his growths are so bad. If you are going to late promote a cavalier, their goal is to be on par with Perceval, which Noah will never achieve.
I mean I don’t think even a promoted lance or allen will ever be par with percivel when it comes to pure stats but I agree with your points on noah. The lack of knight crests really hurts him but if you still have a spare one left early promoting him is the best course of action
In new mystery I used Cecile because my other 2 cavs got speed screwed and they kept getting doubled so I just sucked it up and used her. Although training her was tough she really started becoming an amazing unit then again when have cavs ever been bad
My opinion on Silas
Birthright: He joined relatively early and remained the tankiest unit n the game. Oboro and Rinkah can be tankier than him but both unit are weapon lock until promotion. Also, Silas has better movement than both of them. I will say Silas is definitely the best unit in Birthright. Join early, Have good bulk, hit like a truck and access to Sword and lance. I think the only unit comparable to Silas is Ryoma and Corrin. But the problem with those 2 is that if you aren't lucky they will get 2 shot easily. Silas, on the other hand, can tank at least 4-5 hit.
Final Ranking: S Tier
Conquest: Basically the same as Birthright the only difference is that Silas wasn't the best unit in Conquest because Camilla joins Chapter 10. Also, this is a game where Xander exist. So..... yeah. He still one of the best unit in the game. But other units could do what he did but better,
Final Ranking: A+ tier
Revelation: He joined rather late in this game. But he joined at level 18. SO you can easily promote him in revelation. He lost a lot of utility that makes him good in previous game because of late joining chapter though. He is still pretty good but not amazing.
Final ranking: B+ tier
Fates overall ranking: S- or A+
He tanks 4-5 hits?
I checked a questionable average stat calculator for Silas against the enemy stats I remember from the birthright endgame to see if his tankiness holds up or falls off.
Maybe my memory is off but enemy great knights had 46 ATK on lunatic last time I played. Berserkers had over 50.
If you got Silas to level 10 as a Paladin and promoted at level 20 he'd have 35.5 hp and 23.5 defense on average. Let's round up to 36 and 24.
With all the stat stacking you can do it's not as bad as it looks. His base stats mean he gets 2 hit KO'd. He has defender and can get a good pairup plus you have tonics and the mess hall and rally defense from Scarlet.
With just +4 defense he'd still be getting 2 hit KO'd exactly by great knights but with any extra hp or defense over that he takes 2 hits and lives. Getting him to take 3 is a lot harder. Even if he had 42 hp he'd still need at least 33 defense to survive 3 hits from great knights. He also has about 29 strength by that point.
I could easily be missing something but I don't see how he takes 4-5 hits throughout the game. I'm also not trying to take away the credit he gets for being so busted early on.
What I am so questioning is your claim that he can survive 4-5 hits. He definitely can at some point with the guard naginata early on. Heck he can probably survive 8 hits with it early on. Maybe that's what you mean. He can't do it throughout the game though. Not even close.
@@melissagrenier2200 I forgot to mention that I play Fates on Hard Mode not Lunatic. I didn't have much experience with Fates Lunatic. But in Hard mode He is pretty tanky.
I guess just like Mekkah said Silas experience depends a lot on your experience with him. My birthright Silas actually have a pretty good growth throughout the game. especially on the defense department. I also give him Dracoshield twice. By the time I reach chapter 24 his Defense is around 32. Pair him up with Sophie + Defender he got his defense +4 equip Naginata and his defense become 37.
His speed is also pretty decent during my birthright playthrough. He can double slower unit like Berserker and Great Knight if i pair him up with the right unit. Silas Married Hinoka in my Birthright playthrough. which mean He got + 6 speed if i pair him up with Hinoka and +4 if i pair him up with Sophie. Add Azura sing his speed become +3 again. That will guarantee he double most unit and won't get doubled by fast unit.
I remember clearly that Silas took around 8-10 damage from Great Knight and 11-14 damage from Berserker. Since Silas Double those unit. After 2 enemy he will get his shield gauge full. He get 4 shot by Berserker. But Berserker rarely come in large number in the same area. So 2 Berserker and 2 great knight are fine game for Silas. And by that time his Shield gauge will be full again. So the 5th hit won't hurt him. Again this is Hard mode experience. If i'm not mistaken Great Knight in Hard Mode have around 42 attack and Berserker have 46. In my guess based on your description. In Lunatic he probably survive 3 hit. Since Shield Gauge will be full after 2 hit.
So yeah that's how Silas can tank 4 Hits in Birthright. One thing i also forgot to mention is that All the parent unit i used are all married. And because of that i did all of their child Paralogue. Because of That I think by the time i reach chapter 24 Silas is already level 16 and in chapter 27 he is level 18.
Silas being a total bro
can you please link where it is shown how useful can silas be on his joining chapter compared to jacob? I'd like to try it
Why isn’t Makalov here?
Because he isn't a cavalier cavalier he is a sword cavailer.
Because he strickly picked Cavaliers and Makalov is a Sword Knight
Did you watch the intro?
@@OnlyPassingHereya makes sense but then theres no christmas cavaliers in radiant dawn.
Glad you put Silas high. He has a very good set of classes. I feel he kinda sucks long term in paladin, but hero and master ninja help patch his speed issues, and bulky master ninjas are really good
Silas is undoubtedly excellent in Birthright because he's the only cavalier. He also makes for a great pairing spouse for anyone who wants cavalier too. In Conquest he's still good but the class is less rare. Plus his weapon ranks and bases are worse than on Birthright.
@@l.n.3372 It's interesting, I basically agree with you points, but I kinda disagree that Silas is better in birthright. Birthright is so easy that pretty much every unit is good. A god that kills everything is effectively the same as a pretty good unit that kills everything, you know?
But conquest can be really hard, and Silas, despite having a common base class, has some unique traits that make it easier. He can reclass into mercenary and get the skill combination VoF+elbow room+strong riposte to get +10 damage on enemy phase. His availability makes up for his stats and weapon ranks imo.
@@l.n.3372 Also, I'd recommend this older video from mekkah
th-cam.com/video/mtRTQEzxF0U/w-d-xo.html
He basically explains that having multiple characters of the same class is often the most efficient way of playing
Small nitpick but hero barely does anything to augment Silas' Spd. Hero -> paladin only gets a single point of Spd and a 5% growth increase which isn't enough to make it worth it.
Docaccino I was referring to the base stats, but you’d still be right, since hero only has 1 point of speed over paladin. My bad. Master Ninja is the real fix
I feel fe9 Makolov should have been on this list.
What was that vídeo about silas that mekka was talking about?
but mekkah, where's our son Shon?
Shon sucks balls. He's like Eliwood, but worse with a horse
I never noticed how much Rody in FE3 looked like Leif but with a green armor, therefore I'm surprised not seeing Mekkah putting him in S-tier.
Hey Mekkah, would you be willing to do a FE randomizer sometime? I'd love to watch that
Roshea actually has good growths in the FE3 original, so if you wanna play him instead of the Christmas Cavs, he can do it. He has good base stats to boot and only has 7 levels to grow, plus he is only 3 WP.Lvls to use a Silver Lance/Silver Sword and wreck stuff.
He is so overlooked because in the OG Games(Shadow Dragon and The Blade of Light and it's remake) he has awful growths(10% SPD, 10% DEF, 10% LCK and in the remake, has D-E Weapon Ranks). So even if he can grow, he will not get any better, so his base stats don't help him in that regard(although if he promotes in the NES Game, he will compensate his bad LVL Ups with Rank Stats, as per game mechanics)
Too bad in FE-Book2 and the remake he comes so late and in the former, Mounted Units lose so many stats dismounted(so he ain't as good, even if he can grow). So there is no reason to use him. In the remake, he will take a ton of work to get to your Paladin levels, so it's kinda not worth it, even if he can get better than them.
What is the video Zora made on Silas?
I feel like Ferdinand von Aegir belongs on this list. Even though the best path for him is most likely Wyvern Lord (mostly because of how broken the class is in FE3H), the fact that he can reliably cause enemies to have 0 Hit Chance against him while also doubling many of them makes him an easy A tier in my book, but people keep overlooking him in favor of Sylvain, who can't take hits nearly as well.
Honestly I think some units can justify paladin over fliers in certain situations. Mainly because of how busted battalions are and how limited flying battalions are in the mid to late mid game.
what about a Manakete + Dragon Laguz tier list? Or just some kind of the animal transformation characters
What about the two cavs from Awakening?
17:38 Silas fell off (again)
Fiona is low she is below TBD
When it comes to Silas, he tends to turn out well for me and when he doesn't he still has his uses. I find if I start male Corrin, I find he is better since Jacob won't be around for awhile. Silas' early join really helps him in comparison to Peri as he typically ends up stronger than her by the time she joins up. In my experience, usually a few levels above her. It's the same problem Benny has when being compared to Effie in conquest (Benny is better in revelations on virtue of joining not long after her in the same but also 7 levels above her. Making him a bit more reasonable to raise him).
Basically by the time Benny joins, Effie is probably going to be better than him in many ways. Silas vs Peri is much the same. Another thing to note is Silas is also the only cavalier in birthright, which does help his placement as a early mounted unit. I say A- is a fair place to put him.
I hear FE3 Book 2 Matthis ain't too bad so I'd probably bump him up a little but I understand my boy ain't the best elsewhere :c
Wait Matthis is a full tier worse than Roshea and Vyland??
Mekkah you wound me, that I flat out can't agree with
Am I missing something with Lowen? Every time I used him he would only get really bulky and take hits well but his offense and speed were always crap. Sain in my personal experience is easily the best cavalier in fe7. He hits hard and gets quick enough to double everyone (except for really fast bosses) and defensively he isn’t bad at all he can take hits really well.
Lowen starts off better than Kent and Sain if you skip Lyn mode while also being available earlier.
Bert Kozoman but even by then Lowens strength and speed growth are small so any level ups you get will most likely not reward with strength. If you feed kills and reinforcements to Sain on the chapter he arrives he would easily outclass Lowen in no time.
Lowen always turned into a super res tank for me
Imo Lowen is more of a utility unit than a offensive beast. He can tank and protect other units and if his offenses don't turn out good, he can chip and weaken enemies so your weaker midgame units like Heath or Raven can get the kills and grab EXP. Sain can't do this since obviously he ORKOs everyone xD
@@jonadablarios1517 *If you feed kills to Sain*
Well, if you feed kills to Nino, she can good, too, but she's not good.
We're talking bases here. Lowen has great bases, and even if his growths aren't that good, he'll be much better than Sain and Kent when skipping Lyn Mode, which most people do.
With Roshea the thing is that in FE3 book 1 they buffed his speed growth from 10% to 40% so he is actually decent there
Man I've never been able to get a decent performance out of Clive. Gets RNG screwed in every stat but strength, he's way too squishy. Mathilda, though, total MVP. Fast, strong, and surprisingly bulky.
imo Noah is a little overlooked, best weapon ranks at base and has the best bases out of the cavaliers. Putting a killing edge on him helps his combat to compare to Allen and Lance for a while until they promote, I wouldn't recommend promoting him first instead of Allen and Lance otherwise his stats compare to Marcus so it's good to let him get a few levels and he'll do fine, and he already does pretty well on the Western Isle due to the amount of axe users that you need to take care of and putting a killing edge on him there can help clear out some areas, since he doubles some of the brigands that are weighed down and has a chance to just get rid of them in one shot thanks to the killing edges crit chance. He also turns out to be more bulky than Allen or Lance due to a nice base and a pretty good growth to help him. If I ranked it then I would probably put him in the mid part of B tier since his movement is nice and has a nice niche in the killing edge, and turns out to be an ok combat unit later on. And also his supports with Fir are really really cute.
Yes, but when he joins you only have one or maybe two killing edges if you used it sparringly and those are going to either Rutger or Deke, so Noah needs to wait for some time until killer weapons become buyable. Also Noah's growths are mediocre, even by FE6 standards
Lowen is amazing, I always use him
The only thing I would change with this is swapping Clive and Carrion. I find that Clives issue with witches is minor compared to the fact that Duma's Temple is full of both witches and arcanists which screw him over quite a bit. Not to mention that the final battle alone has 2 units that spawn witches and an arcanist with ranged magic, along with swamps everywhere.
The thing is, everyone in Echoes sufferers against witches and arcanists. The only way you aren’t getting obliterated by magic is to be a Dread Fighter. On Alm’s route especially, the only unit you’ll have that isn’t under constant witch threat is your Dread Fighter villager.
Hardin can use the silver sword you get the chapter before you use him in FE1 and combined with his overall higher bases than both Cain and Abel I do think he's a contender for at least the best base cavalier in the original
I think Jagen makes better use of the silver sword but still you can buy a lot of those in that game
Ares is a monster though
This is truly a Matthis Moment
Frey is really good in shadow dragon. He is on par with Cain and Abel or even better than them. But it just normal mode tho.
i think abels statline is better, but him and frey will wind up very similar anyway.
in a world where frey is usable in h5 he would be definitely worse though, since he gets doubled in ch 3 lol. but still not that much difference otherwise
I had some very good results with Peri. She always stays on my Conquest teams. She always activates Luna. And if you make her have Galeforce. Then she is of the most broken units in the game.
I’d say that Peri and Silas have good ratings. I haven’t used Peri very much, but just from looking at her numbers, she seems competent. And, because of her high speed, she makes a decent Great Knight. Silas is probably A tier, maybe B tier. In Birthright, he’s the only cavalier (other than Sophie and potentially Corrin), and having a mount that isn’t weak to arrows is nice in Birthright due to Hoshido not having horses.
Admittedly, Jacob outshines him as a paladin if you pick Female Corrin in birthright. However, there really isn't any reason to not use both of them for the reasons you mention. The lack of arrow weakness is really nice.
I wish Roderick was S tier so we could call it Fire Emblem: Roderick Rules
i know im a year late, and as a guy who only plays 7 & 8 who never uses marcus or seth after my 10th run, Lowen and Frans (on my 35th run). They can out class the golden boys by miles on 15/20 set up. any other day i'd trade in frans for Kyle any day though.
why u gotta do my boy callion like that
VongolaBossX96 exactly, callion is the homie, why is mekkah so mean :(
Noah is actually the fat cavalier. He had 10 con, everyone else has 9. I thought the same thing, Treck definitely looks like the cav they give more con. But it's Noah, it's another reason why he's a good choice for axes, and his better weapon-levels mean it's not a big deal to have him focus on axes, his other two ranks won't fall far behind.
I still think he and Fir should be closer on the big list tho. But it's coo, I'm probably just a Fir-apologist.
While Noah's con is high, has less aid, he can't rescue Dieck promoted or Bartre, which Marcus, Alan, Lance,Treck and Zealot (i think) can
No Ferdinand, Sylvain, Lorenz, or Leonie? I know you wanted to keep it short, but your cutting criteria didn't cover the Three Houses cavs imo.
Still enjoyed the video.
Playing FE7 hector hard mode I almost find it impossible to use lowen but my last run on normal he was able to get good and steam roll mid to late game. Rn I’m struggling with him on chapter 20. Using Treck and Noah was mad fun on FE6 hard mode
What about that Maria's brother from path of radiance??
I honestly hardly use Clive, since I always promote Faye to a cavalier and she is about the same level as Clive when he comes along usually. Then Mathilda comes, and she’s usually stronger than my Clive, so I really just start to stop using him. I might try next time I play though.
Faye is probably better off as a cleric, you can use Clive and he's probably about equal as a cavalier.
Matthis is great. He can pull the bow knights or distract an enemy.
Yeah a perfectly adequate single use meatshield
Man this really was in the time period where Franz was overrated and Clive was still being put on similar grounds to Mathilda lol
Franz and Peri are my favourites to use of the “overlooked cavaliers”.
I think I know why you enjoy Perri
Silas is great in birthright especially seeing that the route is in desperate need of tanks and natural axe units
"Silas is great in *all* routes"
ftfy
As for axes? eh. Great Knight isn't that great. Promoting to that gets you axes, but only E rank. Most times I've found it's better to just use the stronger swords/lances you can use.
Silver's have a stat penalty sure, but it doesn't trigger on dual attacks.
Brave weapons are only detrimental if you don't trade them away for enemy phase.
Not to mention going G. Knight gives Silas worse res/spd/mov, and doesn't really provide anything of value.
@@tacticalstampede5678 you get like 3 regular axe units without reclassing. Tanky units are few and far between and in birthright there a lot of enemy lances like knight Cavs soldiers wyvern Lord's along side maids for weapon triangle so axe are greatly appreciated also low weapon ranks aren't bad seeing as forged iron club and others are just as good low ranks are only bad if it is a unit with one weapon if they have 2 or 3 weapons it isn't a problem
@@blankblank6214 I agree that having some axes is nice in a lance-heavy game like Birthright, but Hoshido also gives you a shitload of bow-users, including powerhouses like Takumi and Reina, that also have WTA over lances and knives, so it's not like you're totally FUBAR'd against them.
@@cartooncritic7045 might I remind you that the skill point blank is only obtainable in the final heirs of fates map and you must have had no units die so not only you must pay money for DLC you must also sacrifice a skill slot for it
blank blank I wasn’t even thinking of the DLC, as I have not used any of Fates’ DLC. I do know that Bows exist in Birthright, have pretty high Might, and BR gives you lots of Bow units that are, at the very least, competent units.
And to be clear, I know BR is the kind of game where you can just plop a tanky unit with a good 1-2 range weapon and skip enemy phase to win, but if I can have Kinshi Knight Takumi shoot a scary Wyvern out of the sky with relative ease, that sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
Wow. Vyland is one whole tier higher than matthis for +1 skill and +2 luck and -4 wlv. Also -10% str, -20% skl, -10% lck and -10% def AND joins half a chapter later
In FE3 I would say Luke is the worst of the 3 just since it feels like it takes him longer before he can start consistently doubling before the other two (while mounted anyway), but I may have just gotten unlucky level ups. In FE3 B2 most of the time I just use fliers since you get more of them earlier (Palla, Catria, and Shiida all is the first 4 chapters), and the mid-game is awful for mounted ground units due to all the desert and indoor maps. Sirius takes care of any paladin needs in FE3 B2.
Wow, Franz over Ares is a hot take Mekkah. Sometimes he's great and sometimes he's just good, while Ares always destroys.
I think there was room for Makalov on this list despite your arbitrary criteria, Oscar and Kieran (both low S or high A) are the Xmas cavs and Makalov is the third wheel. He's definitely inferior to both of them for using a sword and joining later, but he's extremely solid as a replacement if you lost one of the former in an iron man or something. He's actually a top 12 unit in the game overall so there's room for him in your main army without being a replacement, although he just barely makes the cut in that case. He's a pain in the butt to raise without some bexp, but a max dmg forged sword until he promotes and axes after make him great. Support with Astrid and good growths all around, I'd probably put him in low A tier.
I don't like taking complete RNG screwage into account. There's always the possibility Franz gets blessed instead. Also, even a Franz that ends up like -2 or -3 or on str or spd is still going to perform fine.
I could've included FE9 Makalov, but then I also feel like I would've had to include FE10 Makalov, FE9 and FE10 Astrid. And really, you could make the same argument for FE4: Alec and Noish are the XMas cavs, so Finn/Beowolf is the 3rd wheel, etc.
You disgraced the Matthis moment
personally I would've put Fiona from FE10 on this list as well. However she wouldn't be very high up anyway 😅
What FE game is that on the side??
Late but it's a hack called The Last Promise
god Lowen never did impress me outside of his facetank capability, FE7 is flooded with good mounted units
Depends, if you play Lyn mode I wouldn't bother with him outside of ferrying and chipping in chapters 11-14, but if you skip he's pretty valuable.
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 man, getting advice from one of the many great mounted units, yeah I normally use Lowen to block off enemies and chip them down, he just doesn't have much offensive force for me normally and even risks getting doubled
Cecile Fire Emblem 12?
Yeetus made the thumbnail
May I suggest a manakete tier list?
I think most of them were already caught by the est tier list.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 ah, haven't seen that one yet 😅
@@chadkruse6950
I don't think it covered all of them, though.
That would be a sticky one to do now, since some of them have been done, others haven't.
It would also give a chance to get the Awakening bunnies, since they're basically just floppy Manakete.
I get most of the cuts but I think maklov should have been on this list at the least.
100 kill Javelin>30(40 because of bonus) mt stick
Frey is in a fair spot tbh
Cecilia/Cecil, Luke and Roderick are just better at the point he joins and he isn't that good to ditch one of the units you've trained to that point
Oh, just make a TLP tier list already. You know you want to.
Inanna Asch and Karina gotta be top tier
Iirc Cecil has the Lady Sword and that's why she's really good. In the remake she's still quite bad as a Cavalier but she's really good being reclassed to a mage, and then later a Swordmaster with a Levin sword. But I don't know if this is factored into her ranking here.
Frey is slightly better than Cain on paper in SD normal mode. Not being available on higher difficulty is quite painful though. But being better than Cain counts for something.
And finally, as a longtime hater of Matthis, Matthis > Vyland. Matthis at least grows into something 'useable' with the investment, even if you'd never use him over Hardin/Cain/Abel, just talking Cavaliers. But Vyland starts bad and will always be bad. I think I've made an argument that Vyland is one of the worst units in the entire series, and while he's not as bad as Sophia or Lyre, he's really complete gutter trash.
Id argue Roshea has *some, not much* utility in sd, wjat with ridersbane and javelin chip and finishes due to his actually pretty good str. Hes still trash tho lmao
Wait people overlooked franz and lowen and chose to sacrifice frey instead of gordin
Lowen looks unreliable and "ugly", and the game kind of pushes you to sacrifice a cavalier, whether you sac the new guy, or one of Cain and Abel.
I believe Frey is the cannon sacrifice, so that gets some people to sacrifice him, too.
Finally, many people set out to use Gordin for the memes, then remember he's very bad at around chapter 3 or 4, by which point Frey is already dead.
And Franz... I don't even know, man, I knew he was busted when I was like, 12.
Granted I also thought Gilliam was the best, but meh.
In FE1, Hardin's a lot better than Cain and Abel. He joins 5 levels higher with better bases in every stat. Hardin's base strength is higher than Jagen's for crying out loud. The second you get a Knight's Crest, Hardin surpasses Jeigan and remains better for the rest of the game.
The only units in FE1 that are better than Hardin are Marth, Wendel, Boha, and maybe Rena. A-tier is good though.
Also Cain isn't that great in FE1. When you get 15 infinite range Warp staff uses and 12 Hammernes, you don't really need a high mobility unit with bad bases.
I still think Luke and Rody are Christmas cavs, particularly in FE12.
Abel archetypes don’t need to have red hair always, look at Naoise or Forde.
In the name of Kane!
Uwottmate?
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 You know. The FE5 Cavalier...
Yeetus would like to know your location
FE3 Cecil is a good lady sword user
I know Xander and Seth are Paladins but I wish they were on here.
where are Kyle and Forde
for franz there are only like 3 units that are better than him: vanessa becasue pierce breaks the game. seth becasue he is seth. and ephraim because he is ephraim. but apart from that, he is the best unit in fe8 (besides those 3).
Matthis in Heroes now or we riot
Mekkah i think you might be hyping up Clive a little bit. I also believe that he is over criticized but he isn't "that" good. To put into perspective your lv 7 Clive from the current LP has 31hp 15atk 12skl 13spd 9luk 11def while an average lv 7 Clive with no boosters is 31.3hp 14.8atk 9.45skl 9.5spd 7.75luk 9.8def. Uninvested Clive typically gets doubled by paladins, doesn't hit particularly hard and gets murdered by mages.
Even if Clive doesn't get Spd blessed he can still ohko cavs with a maxed ridersbane and can take on more of them at once than the other potential ridersbane users (except for Lukas). It's not even that unlikely to see him promote before Act 4 which is a big advantage over Mathilda. After promoting he's basically set for life provided he gets 3 points of Spd from fountains/level ups so he can double enemy gold knights in Act 4. Spd really isn't an important stat in SoV since doubling benchmarks are very lopsided so either most of your units double an enemy type or almost nobody does. Sure, mages put a dent in Clive but he can still take a hit and orko them which isn't any worse than non-hunter's volley users/dread fighters.
@Docaccino if you dump 130 silver and 2 gold marks into the ridersbane, i would hope you can at the least ohko cavs. That might also be difficult due to the fact that you don't get a second gold mark until nuibaba or jerome in part 4.
Giving gold knight Clive the 3 extra spd brings up the question about how much favoritism you plan on dumping onto him. Considering that he will probably need the thief shrine speed to be effective for part 3, giving him the fear mountain speed is a lot. Any unit should perform dramatically differently given 6 speed.
Saying speed isn't important is kind of wrong. In a game where 1 spd can double your durability or double your offence, it seems kind of important. There is a reason that dread fighters are so popular dispite having the lowest physical attack base as well as the lowest physical bulk of any teir 3 class.
I'm not saying that i think Clive is bad because he's not. I just wouldn't call him good eather. There are many things he can do but there are also plenty of things he can't or struggles to do.
he's doubling the 3-1 cavs without a single speed level up just from paladin base and from the first shrine and same goes for 3-2 arcanists who no one really orkos and most everyone gets 2HKO'd anyways so his low res is not that big of a deal. 3-3 if Lukas isn't promoted he's your best option for dealing damage vs the paladins if you place him on a forest tile on enemy phase for the 2 turn. 3-4 he can easily overextend and kill the cantor in 2 turns, whose AI is passive so he doesn't need to worry about getting killed on enemy phase. 3-5 he can feasibly meet the str thresholds to orko the left side cavaliers with a +3 steel lance allowing Mathilda to use the ridersbane. Though not as pronounced as in FE11 having high movement and being able to use effective weaponry is so effective that regardless of who you think is the better between Mathilda and Clive, he at least deserves B tier for his contributions in early act 3 and potentially act 4 if he reaches gold knight (which is feasible outside of pure LTC see karma's run for the worst case scenario Clive).
And about the speed shrine, aside from potentially mage tobin (whose combat falls off even harder than Clive) i'm not sure who else really wants them. Silque is getting 2 simply because early warp saves that many turns but neither Alm nor Lukas really care. Your archer candidate may be a decent option but that is also variable considering there isn't really a set in stone villager class configuration anyways, whereas Clive is a staple combat unit in act 3 regardless of who else you choose to bring.
@@gameboyn64 Gold isn't a big problem for Alm considering the 2 exotic spices you get from Desaix's fort and the cheese quest. Act 3 gives you 7 gold marks in total which is more than enough to cover killer bow and ridersbane forges.
Echoes does have a doubling threshold of 1 but enemy Spd stats are so tiered (most enemies don't even exceed 10 AS and myrms/DFs are so fast that almost nobody doubles them) that there's almost no point in overinvesting into the stat. Like Ziggy said the only real competition for the thief shrine Spd fountain are Silque and mage Tobin so Clive can easily afford that 1 point he needs to double 3-1 cavs. The fear mountain Spd fountain also isn't that contested unless your DF hasn't reached enemy DF doubling thresholds yet or if you wanna go for the meme Rudolf orko with a super blessed Mathilda.
@@ziggymcdougal
3-1: that isn't a special threshold to reach. To orko the cavs you need 9 spd with the ridersbane. Lv5 cav grey, lv1 cav tobin, lv3 cav kliff, and lv1 clair can all do this with the speed fountain. If clair gets to lv4 she can do it without the fountain.
3-2: the miasma arcanists have 12atk, the mire arcanist has 19atk and the boss has 22atk. No one is dying from two miasma attacks (not even clive) unless they get doubled. There are only 2 mire users including the boss so facing 2 mires is unlikely. Units can die however from a miasma + mire, namely clive. Base paladin clive takes 29 and dies even with +1hp. Meanwhile (not considering spd) base alm, teir 2 grey, teir 1 tobin, base kliff, base silque, base clair, base forcyth, and base python have enough bulk to survive this combo. Also (not considering spd), teir 1 kliff and base silque, can survive 2 mires. Miasma + boss mire can be survived by base alm, tier 2 tobin, base kliff, base silque, base clair, base forsyth, and tier 2 python.
3-3: without a +3spd boost ridersbane clive is getting doubled by everything as fernand and the paladin have 9spd. He will always get doubled by berkut. With paladin base def (8) clive takes 5x2 from the paladin and fernand, and 9x2 from berkut which comes out to 38 if everything hits. Base paladin hp (28) requires that he dodge 2-3/6 attacks. If there is a bow knight group like when mekkah did the map, he definitely won't survive without the speed boost. Meanwhile knight lukas can just be dropped in with nothing to worry about
Again, I'm not saying that Clive is a bad unit or anything. I'm just saying he's an "ok" unit. He has his uses. I'm just saying that a unit that can only perform at a high level for a limited window if he is given stat boosters and is otherwise kind of pedestrian half the time especially without the stat boosts isn't what i would necessarily call a good unit.
Roshea is good in fe3 book 1 and thats about it.
The problem with Trec is that he dies before you recruit him.
You can recruit him turn 2 if you rescue drop Roy with Marcus or Shanna, but it's a pretty specific setup that blind players don't always figure out.
@@Mekkkah Yeah, I know. I was ready to rush to him in my ironman run, but I remembered him spawning in one house lower than he actually did, so that screwed me up.
There can be no world in which Clive is better than matilda in echoes at least I don’t even know if Matilda is in gaiden. Clive is garbanzo beans. He’s alright in his first couple chapters but what’s the point of even giving him xp just use other people hes not necessary. Matilda on the other hand is great the moment u get her and will keep up until the late game