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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2021
- I rank all the troubadours (mounted healers) in the series in a tier list, based on how useful they are. Enjoy!
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Calling it now, Mist is A-tier, for her toned abs. Funny heal girl has more strength than some Fighters.
D tier lmao
welp, she is Ike's sister after all
The amount of times my Clarine has rescue dropped Roy's unpromoted butt has me wondering why they can't support.
Clarine, having good taste, only supports with useful people.
@@maltheopia ouch
@@maltheopia Dorothy is useful guys I swear.
@@maxyaju4293 Which should tell you something about Noodle Boy Roy.
@@maxyaju4293 she can OHKO wyverns in normal mode. best unit
Also, you're right, in PoR staves don't count as a weapon, so you can't use Arms Scrolls to increase staff rank. You can in RD, though.
Edit: I'm pretty sure you can use Arms Scrolls to increase staff rank with Rhys in PoR, however, because the Bishop class combines Light magic and staves, so equipping Light magic and using Arms Scrolls will raise the staff rank, as well.
What I really like for Marianne is putting her in Dark Flier, once she has the mobility of flying she can both support really well with her healing and Silence, attack and canto out with her offensive spells, and use Soulblade Rapier attacks to delete horses and armor without spending spell charges. Not having a Reason boon stands a bit in the way of that build, but she gets Physic pretty early so she can afford to drop Faith training for a while and focus on Reason, while with her Flying boon she won't have trouble hitting the rank for Dark Flier and can even afford to invest in Riding to pick up Valkyrie for its mastery skill.
super interesting, will prolly try this out in my next run
Character timestamps:
Ethlyn 2:58
Nanna (FE4)/Jeanne 6:05
Nanna (FE5) 8:27
Amalda 11:00
Clarine and Cecilia 13:14
Priscilla 20:22
L' Arachel 22:27
Mist (PoR) 24:27
Mist (RD) 27:53
Maribelle 30:40
Elise 33:36
Dwyer 35:23
Forrest 36:01
Marianne 36:42
Bumping this up, for the next generation of viewers
Missed these Mekkah!
Elise is easy S for me. Healing is very valuable in Conquest as enemies are a very real threat. She has superb availabilty, can carry units long distances if she is not healing, can activate Dragon Veins when the other Royals are busy fighting and can reduce damge taken by up to 11. I think that's why they gave her wyvern rider so she can get both rally def and res.
It isn't exclusive to her, but she also comes with and can use the Freeze staff. Elise has been crazy helpful for me in the harder difficulties of Conquest.
Wyvern rider is where she becomes better than camelia XD
I respectfully disagree with Elise being in S Tier. You guys are forgetting that we get a staff bot even earlier than that and can also attack & debuff at base: Felicia/Jakob. Since they're already promotes, they have 6 movement for pretty much the entire game, and can be reclassed if they get stat-screwed. Granted, they can't activate dragon veins, but they're always putting in work - more so than Elise for the majority of the game (don't forget she's temporarily benched for the Pot Palace chapter).
I'd say she's a solid B+/-A unit for Conquest.
@@zer0name720 Except Jakob can't be a chad like Elise. Elise should always reclass into combat units :p
The real S tier Elise is Malig Knight Elise or Dark Falcon Elise
Love Troubadours, favorite class alongside Falcoknights ( I like women)
I always found it funny to fight with troubadours. My Nanna got 300 kills in fe5, I got mist to 20/20 and hammerne'd the sonic sword twice to sweep up generals in fe9 endgame, I got Priscilla to 20/20 and A lucius support and had them mutual heal through hhm endgame, and got Clarine to S anima and aircaliber'd through that garbage wyvern chapter. They're such a fun class to use
1:17 Makkah: “I like Mist”
Me: “I like where this is going”
Mist my beloved
Elise is pretty good. In the early game where damages are significantly lower, reducing damage by 3 is a lot. It becomes 5 for male characters when she reaches level 10. Her not providing a dual strike on enemy phase isn't really an issue because you rarely want to attack stance on enemy phase anyways. In the later parts of the game, she can go maligknight as a discount dark flier to deal with some of the more difficult chapters like the hinoka chapter and the maligknight lv15 skill is really good.
Haven't seen this in forever but obligatory Cowga Saga comment:
Mel: She's a troubadour and is kinda like a Pent & Louise Deal in TRS with Roger. She can use swords but that's not why you really use her anyways. Depending on the route you send her and Roger (since they need to be together) she can get a prf staff in Ensorcel which boosts a unit's magic stat up by 7 for a whole map but she can only get it in Holmes Split 1. It's fairly helpful since u have a few mages on that route even if it ain't quite like Enpower although indoor maps hinder her move, but if u send her to the more mount-heavy Runan she is just a solid healer alongside Enteh and use something like physic or heal. Probably B or A but it really depends on which route u send her.
Paramythis: She sort of counts since she can use light magic (light in Berwick are primarily healing spells with the exception of Holy and Starlight but Starlight is Saphira's prf) and swords. She comes at a high base level which also acts as weapon rank. She can use every light magic without fail at base barring fortify which she is two away and basically every non-prf sword in the game. Her bases are fairly strong by Berwick standards and her hit rates aren't an issue. Comes pretty late and performs well in just about every map but her best use is primarily endgame with Holy where she can bait out the Gigas Knight and his armored squadron since she does not have to dismount until you enter the room where Chaos' squad is and she's another healer who can help cure status and heal in probably the hardest section of BWS Endgame with the overwatch, gigas formation and status orbs from the raze in the throne room. Prob a C Tier since she comes really late into Berwick (has at best 8 maps left in a game with 40 or so maps with 4 of those being recruitment-related paralogues which would most likely be done by the time u get her)
Neira: Not sure what I'd rate her, healing in VS is alright and she's more remembered for a notoriously annoying recruitment to pull off. She joins shortly before the Zade/Cyltan split and she'll be locked to Cyltan Route and she uses bows and staves. She's def nice for healing some of the frontliners of Cyltan's maps like Helme, promoted Urvan and Jamulan and Rambling Rose access has it's uses at times. Prob C tier since she comes kinda late and doesn't have any particular standout qualities?
Since Vestaria Saga often has multiple objectives at once or requires you to split your army/intentionally slow it down, so being footlocked isn't as big of a deal in that game as it is in other series. Mobility is still very nice to have for combat units and the highest-MOB units tend to be the best combat units anyway. Neira's big problem is her crappy availability and low mastery levels (the game's equivalent of weapon ranks) in a game where mastery is an even more important stat to have than speed/agility. Bows and staves are still nice advantages to have, but she's no Elise. Or even a Cecilia.
One thing youre underselling, Mel's ensorcel works on levin swords. Runan split 1 isnt even that hard, so she doesnt miss much being sent with holmes and gains ensorcel. Roger also sucks compared to Zieg and Narron so again, you never miss out on much sending her with holmes and gain a staff that turns someone into a levin sword/magic nuke and mage tank for a whole map. For something even more busted, use ensorcel on Rishel and make him nigh invincible.
Bro you forgot Hapi in Three houses. In the DLC she is a Valkyrie
just saying, clarine rutger supports makes clarine more valuable in my eyes
The Deke-Clarine Rutger is my favorite
Yes. She becomes a force to be reckoned with that support triangle. Using Rutger+Clarine as one unit with A support level makes them broken. Nothing will hit them and if something does you can heal. The critical rate goes extraordinarily high for both (mostly Rutger), Clarine is so fast and skillful she'll double anything with a simple fire tome in a game where there's basically no res. I love using Clarine+Rutger (+Dieck) as a unit.
Mekkah's mentioned in other videos that he doesn't really count supports in FE6 when rating characters because of how slow they take to build. It's too bad that most games don't use the FE9 system
I nearly spat out my drink when I heard heals on wheels. That's great.
So good to see a Tier list back~
Real talk, Valk is my favorite class of all games. Idk why I love light magic and healing so much, but to also give massive range to them too? It’s insane.
Same here! i always use at least one Valk in my team, their the best class for sure
Just to quickly speak on the fates kids;
Dwyer: One of the weirdest(statwise) children in fates. He excels in a str based class yet starts as a troubadour. A high str butler is nice, staff utility is great and it is combined with the best weapon type in fates is pretty good. He also has access to the cav line at base so he can also use his high str there. Importantly, he can be available at or before chapter before chapter 10, giving the player a chance at another mounted unit to ferry people around in a pinch. B tier unit for sure.
Forest: The royal children are given alot in fates and Forrest is no exception. His biggest problem is that he competes with his aunt, they are very similar with the exception of his personnel skill. Thankfully, he makes a stellar replacement for his father who is arguably the worst royal in all of fates. With access to a flame shuriken and any magic parent he is able to start chunking the enemy units pretty hard. No worst then his aunt, A tier.
I think you're selling Leo really short there. Leo can do a lot of really funny damage-stacking nonsense with his friendship reclass options -- Odin in particular as he gets access to Vantage and Life & Death through the Samurai tree -- and giving him the Horse Spirit from Ophelia's paralogue gives him a ton of bulk for a Fates mage. I wouldn't say he's better than his other siblings, but I wouldn't call him the worst Fates royal when Sakura needs a lot more babying to be anywhere near as good as her own siblings.
The sheer amount of nostalgia you hit me with having the Ocarina of Time title theme right at the start of the video. That was my first ever video game. I remember sneaking into my sister's room to play her N64 before she got back from school.
The only theme that hits me harder is the MapleStory title theme.
Awwww shiiiiiiiittttt
OoT was either the first game I played, or the first I got into. I loved it.
I remember I was 3 when I played it, and I was scared to complete the Deku Tree because I knew there would be big spiders eventually. Good times.
If this was about the character and not usefulness and availability then L'Arachel would be S tier, but yeah, she's pretty bad on her game, specially because she might even die before you can even recruit her lol, and even if you do make it and recruit her, she'll never Catch Up without Tower of Valni grinding, which really kills her utility if you don't like grinding.
The only useful thing with L'arachel in a run without grinding is free Rennac, I don't use her except if I am doing the creature campaign because I can train her in the Tower of Valni three times and she max every stat except defense and hp.
The environment around her is also working heavily against her. Enemies in SS are so weak and characters are so strong that you can just go gung ho with Franz/Vanessa/Seth that you don't really need that much external healing, if any. You might as well just use Moulder/Artur who have the option of obliterating any monster that might happen to get in range. The game is also so short that even without worrying about catching up to your other units, she won't have much time to contribute really by the time she gets going.
Incould understand this arguemnt for every other class, but not for a troubadour. A troubadour would be useful even whit 0 in all stats and 0% in all growths because no other class can both staff and rescue. She does not need to catchup whit anything unless maybe staff rank, the best features about her is the class itself and that is the same regardless of levels and staffs.
@@noukan42 natasha can ve a valkyrie at that point of the game if you want a mounted healer, the same for lute.
@@alejandro_rodriguez_99 but those are not the first unit you promote. In fact natasha is a strictly worse moulder unless you promote her, and L'arachel does 80% of what a promoted Natasha would do right off the bat.
Archetype tierlists are back! Great, I can resume begging for the Tiki/Shifter tier list!
Hey Mekkah, I know this has nothing to do with this tier list but I have been thinking about this question for a while and was wondering if you had any input. It's a known fact that in most FE games, especially those past FE6, that swords are the worst out of the 3 main weapons types, or at least the worst to be the only weapon type a unit has access to. This is generally accepted to be because they have no reliable 1-2 range option and for a smaller reason, they have less access to special weapons such as effective weapons and have less might than the other weapon types. So I was thinking, how do we balance this for swords to be more effective? In FE6 swords are good because they have more hit than the other weapon types in a game where attacks are super inaccurate but this is overall an infuriating part of FE6's game design so I don't think it's a good idea to repeat this. The easiest solution is to give them easy access to 1-2 range as it solves their biggest issue. This would go a long way and is simple but it's also uninspired so I have a different idea. How about rather than swords having the least might of all the weapon types, we make them have the most or they can negate some amount of the enemies defense so they can do more raw damage than the other types but they lack range to make up for it. Or to go in line with the swordmaster philosophy, swords have a higher base crit rate across the board so make them a more risky weapon that can potentially deal high damage. I was just wondering if you have thoughts on my ideas or some of your own. Love your content Mekkah and I wish you the best,
I like this guy
Risk/Reward is the axe thing though, and it's something intuitively baked into video game axes in general. It also feels kinda sour to make swords the anti-armor weapon, when swords are pretty trash against armor of any kind.
A model for 1-2 swords exists in shockwave/wind edge weapons, which is no less unrealistic than the Getter Robo tomahawk boomerang model.
The way as I see it is to make Swords the go-to for extra effects and more specialized use cases. Swords that carry inherent area buffs when wielded, Swords that reduce enemy accuracy on a first strike, those kinds of more utility features would sell swords, imo.
Another decent one would be to make swords negate terrain. Dense woods or tight fortifications might obstruct an axe swing or spear, but a smaller sword wouldn't need that consideration.
Not sure I've you've played FE10 but they did make a 1-2 range sword line in the Wind Edge, Sonic Sword and Tempest Blade. The issue is they were super inaccurate on top of weaker, so only Tempest Blade really stood out.
I think swords could get a +5 crit and +10 avoid when initiating combat buff, perhaps even raise all swords dmg by one if necessary
Fates has 1-2 range option, what you smoking?
In conquest you can press the L or R button while you’re viewing the damage interface to swap between which unit will participate in the dual strike, so Elise being a troubadour doesn’t actually take away from your damage
It does on enemy phase.
@@rockyhankin8679 there are cases where you don’t want to kill on enemy phase since if you keep getting chipped at by multiple enemies you can die so Elise is also good for those times
I really wish I knew this.
There's probably a tutorial somewhere in-game, but am I actually going to read them?
I've mostly just stuck with placing whoever I want to dual strike on enemy phase last. Pretty sure that works consistently unless someone else has a higher support rank.
@@Ethan-nl2wg So? You could just unequip your dual strike partner if you wanted to avoid attack stance in enemy phase, while also having Elise not fuck you over. It's more or less objectively a bad thing that she takes away from your enemy phase.
@@PeevedLatias I personally think giving you a free +3 defense when adjacent to you is a good thing if you aren't an armor with way too much defense to be targeted by enemies.
Ya happy to see another one of these. I enjoy this stuff
Marianne is such a fun unit! So many things she can do! I think her default is to go Dancer, since her spell list is kinda meh, so she falls off a bit late game as a healer. Thoron and Cutting Edge are nice, though. However, she's got boons in Swords and Flying, and rushing that Budding Talent in Lances turns her into an early game nuke; with Frozen Lance, she's able to one shot many enemies in chapter 3, even on Maddening. If you're going to try flying Marianne one day, she's probably best on Crimson Flower, since that's the only route that gets the Arrow of Indra before the final chapter.
Marrianne’s spell list is actually pretty solid, she doesn’t fall off as a healer at all.
Physic is always good, any unit that learns is basically instantly a good healer if they have good magic, which marrianne does. Silence can be really helpful, and those two spells are pretty much enough to make her faith list fine.
The only healing spell she doesn’t learn is fortify, but fortify is awkward yo use if your also using low hp strats.
I knew that you would put Ethlyn at S. I dont think that fast Chapter 2 is nearly enough to make it "better" than Nanna or Elise. Other than that, im happy to see this back. Keep up the good work, we love it!
Her amazing advantages still apply in the other chapters she's in, but chapter 2 is her peak performance.
my strat for dealing with the exp problem for priscilla is to hoard a crap ton of my money, get the silver card and then buy like 15 physics in kinships bond (i often already buy like 5 at dragonsgate) so i dont have to use any other healing staff for the rest of the game anymore, then priscilla just need to get that staff rank, which she probably should already have by kinships bond, and then you're in the physic spam. makes healing a lot easier and gives nice xp.
Currently playing Sacred Stones and so far love L'Arachel. Nice to see this
I found Marianne quite useful in my first playthrough. Went in blind on Maddening and she ended up doing a lot of work late-game since she inexplicably got insane res luck so she could pull packs easily.
Great content!
Yeah, you can choose who your duel strike partner is in Fates. I forgot which one but L or R will let you select your second attacker.
I'd probably say Forrest is the best troubadour on fates due to having a base magic growth at like 65% that can be added to with well planned parents. So Forrest can be used as both a nuke and a healer. Which I at least found very useful in my conquest run
Mekkah you're seriously missing out when it comes to Forrest. Forrest's best mothers are usually Nyx, Felicia, and Azura. Each of those gives him a great niche to fulfill. With Nyx!Forrest, Malefic Aura buffing along with the decent speed that butler has means Forrest can become the next Felicia when it comes to flame shuriken utility. The other Forrests have different use cases, with Azura!Forrest having access to yet another aura skill with Voice of Peace to just add onto the already frankly absurd number of aura skills he has access to. Felicia is the best of all worlds because you can choose between passing down inspiration from a strategist Felicia if you're recruiting Forrest kind of early. Otherwise, really late on, you can just get inspiration by offspring sealing him into Strategist and get demoiselle, gentilhomme, and inspiration and make any unit you want unreasonably tanky.
I once had Clarine double the dreaded Silver Sword Swordmaster. She had a terrible Magic star, but she dodge-tanked really well, so I kept her around.
ethlyn is a healer but because of her minor blood she could redeem with attacks a bit
nana from 4 is just like ethlyn she also has a minor blood her substitute arent very luky 😊
nana from 5 is a classic but you need to put her near leif to take advantage of the support bonuse
Forrest is in a weird spot because he's very good since he gets the stats from a royal, but at the same time it's from the worst royal of the game, Leo. When you recruit him he'll basically become a glorified Elise, both doing the same thing but Forrest having a higher mag. His staff utility of course is what makes him great but compared to dwyer he's probably worse since he (can) have less availability and utility compared to his healer buddies. Having said that, Conquest is a very enemy phase heavy game and it's your defense and resistance stats that will carry you so beig able to heal is always valuable and you can never get enough of. I'd say his best mother is actually Peri since she will give more defense and speed to Forrest rather than overkill mag and res from someone like Nyx who is the most popular marriage option for Forrest and most importantlynit gives him shelter which futher improves his utility
I think Conquest is Player Phase focused. You don't really want to be in enemy range for most of Conquest because units are generally frailer, debuffs exist so you can't just def/res tank, hp growths are lower, and enemies' movement ranges often overlap so you're taking on multiple enemies. But I agree either way cuz you take so much damage on Player phase too
Maribelle is a pretty competent Pegasus knight, imho.
I’d say if you’ve already gotten her to lvl 10 or 15 for the skill as valkyrie, and you want to give her flyer utility at the cost of either her tome use or staff use, her reclass into the pegasus line is pretty alright, between the two, Falcon knight is probably better for her, because staff utility is better than tomes, especially for a unit like Maribelle who is awful at taking hits that aren’t magic.
I very much appreciate the Ocarina of Time music in the background.
Speaking of Dozla, any chance of a berserker tier list?
My favorite technically has to promote to count, I always make sacred stones Natasha into a Valkyrie
Talking about wexp for staves makes me realize how much I missed when I first started playing FE. PoR was my first game, and I found out (don't remember how) that 40 staff uses got Mist from E rank to B rank, which is also the weapon rank cap for the Cleric class. So I just used that as the guideline to figure out how many uses I had left per staff rank, no wexp consideration required.
...One time getting burned in Chapter 27 was enough to convince me that I didn't mind wasting time in her joining chapter to use up the Heal staff she comes with, lmao. Then I can just leave her be and she can use Physic and especially the Recover staff, which heals to max HP regardless of magic stat, in Chapter 27.
Using two Arms Scrolls to get her access to the Sonic Sword was life changing.
29:51 I think the Holy Crown restriction is only in the Japanese version? Could be misremembering, though.
I feel L'Arachel has an immensely variable potential between the two story paths given how they present her to you, and whether or not you kept a spare Guiding Ring and very ample funds for Torch staves saved up for her. I believe she can be quite a bit higher ranked on this list with the following details on at least one of the routes:
In Ephraim's side, she joins in what is considered one of the toughest chapters in the game, with almost no time to really rack up points even with Torch should you recruit her mid-battle, so you do have to put up with her having a poor footing from the getgo there. The best I can think of to stall, to allow for exp points to go in her favor using Torch, is somehow try to leave one archer alive and have it waste shots while taking down everything else, but only because I can't remember if there were any enemies that remained stationary in that particular stage unless approached or neared. You'll also be having a hard time buying enough Torch staves for her and any of the other potential Staff candidates when the first White Gem you get is on her in this route and no sooner. Not exactly disputing her low ranking on this end with all the effort that has to go into it and lousy payoff, and in Ephraim's route you also don't get the second potential Guiding Ring until the chapter _after_ Phantom Ship if you favor someone else over her to promote by then.
In Eirika's side however, you got a lot more protective walls to work with, and more predictable paths for the enemy to take, while being generally more passive and slow approaching you. It should also be noted you get your second Guiding Ring on this path of the chapter _before_ this one, and you can't miss it as Pablo has it. I know for a fact that the trio of monsters surrounding the bottom left chest will never move from that spot unless you are in their attack range, so you can safely leave them for last. Because Innes is also recruited in the earlier chapter, you have a lot more wiggle room in funds by having an extra 10,000 gold to work with as well from his White Gem. Once you get to the point where all the enemies but that bunch is left standing, start using Torch freely and having Tethys dance, which you would also have by then instead of a chapter later, to make that process go by just a bit faster while letting the Dancer gain her fair share of points in the meantime. It admittedly takes some time to get L'Arachel or anyone else with Torch staves up in their levels, but if you can stomach the patience for that one stage for her, you can safely and fully level her up to 20 _and_ promote her on that very same stage to greatly benefit the party from that point on, making her combat capable, giving her that coveted extra mobility, and enjoy her usually potent growths without having to stray into an Arena, Monster encounter, or the Tower of Valni.
Something to note, but L'Arachel starts with a Torch staff. That's 10 uses for 150 guaranteed Exp. You should have also gotten one by Eirika's stage, which makes it 300 tax free Exp. You'd need at least another 10 more Torch staves bought from the shop that has it in the overworld(costing 10,000 total as it were) to roughly cover for the remaining 1400 Exp remaining. Not the most practical approach, but Eirika's route is MUCH nicer to her for allowing this, so it ought to have merit.
Maybe I misunderstood your analysis, but how is stalling in a chapter to get a bunch of staff usage in any different than jumping into skirmishes or the tower? Aren't you just grinding with extra (or less?) steps?
@@DarthChocolate15 I'm aware it's not fast by any means, but the fact of the matter is that Mekkah is already being arbitrary and restrictive upon himself by not using two of the options the game freely offers him. Assuming you are speedrunning, you're also arbitrarily imposing rules upon yourself that don't even grant the visual flair of a screen full of stars, just low numbers for the sake of being low. My notes are attempting to follow his standards, and therefore bring up the only way to make use of available limited resources to bring L'Arachel up to par without skipping on linear Chapter progression. The ONLY alternative by his standards is to just heal when possible till lv.10 so she can at least promote and fight. Erika's Chapter 10 effectively guarantees her a way to get a lot of exp for relatively cheap. Torch give 15 per use and cost 1000 for 10 uses vs Barrier giving only 17 and costing more than twice as much for just 5 more uses and not available till much later. It's at least gold-friendly for a highway to high stats.
@@MrMarket1987 : Sure, taking longer playthroughs into account is fine. The problem is that if you spend that time / turns grinding Some Other Character like Franz or something, they'll also be good. Is L'Arachel really that much better if compared with other characters given similar favoritism? It's also worth noting that one of the biggest XP bonanza maps in FE8 is the hatching gorgon eggs chapter, where killing them awards 50 XP raw whether it's Duessel or Ewan. L'Arachel probably won't be promoted for that chapter and thus misses out on the fun.
@@Snow_Fire_Flame That particular grind I bring up is limited in availability though, and comes with a pricetag. And this brings me back to the point that restricting yourself on how you progress and earn exp is entirely a personal taste. You can feel free to grind on bosses or enemies healing on forts or thrones, but sooner or later the weapons will wear out or a random crit might do them in sooner than intended. These are all legit ways to earn exp. If your goal is to go through the main campaign as fast as possible with little regard for anything else except maybe Stat boosters, then Seth is pretty much all you need to ram right through.
Yes, the Gorgon Eggs grant the most consistent huge chunks of exp, largely only surpassed by the overall gains made with Bosses, Entombed, and Boss Entombed, but to get to all of them you gotta rush through a dangerous gauntlet of fire pits, fairly robust monsters, and limited spacing for land units. And heaven forbid you get turned to stone before another monster takes a shot at the same target. It's just a different kind of gains per chapter is all I'm saying. Mekkah was only outright against the Tower and Random Monsters for his rating of her after all.
For the fate kids i think it's better to rate them based on their performance in Heirs of Fate DLC rather than the main game because the kids can be literally anything in the main game. In heirs of fate the kids have set stats and levels and abilities and they're always available for the same chapters. Fate kids in main game are like a sideshow while they're the center piece of the DLC.
I used a holy knight Marianne in an iron man i did and frozen lance carried me through a lot (well, until she died).
Although i think she is better as anything else
Currently using Maribelle in Awakening. I tend to grind using DLC maps but have ended up with a pretty decent Maribelle.
Troubadour Lv10 > Peg Knight Lv10 > Dark Flier lv15 (for galeforce) > Valkyrie to finish (for tomes & staves).
Shes ended up a kind of "magical glass cannon". Great damage, resistance, and mobility, but terrible defence.
Have then passed on Galeforce to Brady (fathered by Kellam) and using him as a War Monk.
YOOOOO MY FAVORITE CLASS
The best of Dwyer is the availability that comes from early game marriage between Jakob and any female, particularly royals
la'rachel really should've joined as a valkyrie
Me predicting that Ethlyn will be in a lower tier due to availability issues.
Mekkah proceeds to put her in S-Tier.
I will watch the full video tomorrow but I instantly saw my predicition being denied after thinking about it. These are the moments why I like watching these Tier Lists... This and Mekkah ASMR.
But to be honest 4 chapters are like over the half of the first generation and also she gives you the Light Sword, one of the best weapons in this game. Or at least the earliest Mage Sword which is very good to have as early as chapter 2. And she is better than Aideen that's for sure. Also Staff Users are just always useful because healing is always needed.
As long as a unit isn't as screwed as like half of the cast in Radiant Dawn, I think the availability isn't as important. Like Gotoh units. They're so good, should you rate them lower than other units because they're only playable in the finale? The chapters they're available in and how good they perform and what options they have to grow without babysitting are most important factors I think. And yeah a troubadour in the early game of a game that only has like 2 Staff Users up to this point and only gives you churches and not even vulneraries as an alternative is an easy S-Tier now that I think about it.
While I wrote this comment Nanna land on A-Tier which makes me thinking. The game definitely gives you more staff users in Gen 2 including Julia who I think can't be killed because just like Deirde she returns if you conquer the next castle? But I'm very unsure of this. So Nanna and Jeanne aren't the only healers that you can have at this point. The majority of your Gen 2 units up to chapter 7 consists of infantry and she is not very usable in that one although without her Finn and Leif would be in deep dirt. And especially Leif can become very good later on so you don't want him to be in deep dirt. However this isn't enough to get into S-Tier alone. You could argument that if you use the Paragon Ring effectively (which should be considered) both Seliph and Arthur can be promoted in Chapter 8 already which gives Nanna/Jeanne the ability to keep up with them and to heal them up. Which is a thing the others, Lana and Julia, couldn't do that well. (Although thanks to Canto they could still move into their range as well and Lana also has the benefit of inheriting physic which makes it easier for her to heal actually. I completely forgot that.) Her combat doesn't really matter, she can easily inherit the Earth-Sword but that's not as good as in Thracia and better off on another unit. So aside from her not as exclusive role in Gen2 her only other benefit is pherhaps inheriting stuff. But Lana does that better with even higher ranked staves. Nanna is definitely better than Jeanne not only because of that but also because of better stats and naturally better combat which gives her access to more arena money to repair the expensive staves. But combat aside from that doesn't matter so much for the two anyway and Jeanne can get into a relationship with Leif to solve this problem later on. They have some time during chapter 7 after all.
So yeah there is a difference between Nanna and Jeanne, the later still belongs into A-Tier but is Nanna so much better that she deserves S-Tier... Actually I think not. This might be one of the rare cases aside from a Gotoh character where even a short availabilty (although half of the first part of the game isn't short) makes the character good since like I said earlier - You only have Ethlyn and Aideen. And due to the Res of enemies in Gen 1 tending to be lower she also has better combat options with the guaranteed Light Sword.
I’ve mostly used Dwyer as a physical unit, and he’s been extremely fantastic as one. I’d put him at C just because he’s not a fantastic healer with a good magic stat.
Forrest is a really great unit though, but his recruitment could be a bit late, so B is fair.
Dwyer is a very interesting unit, since he can be good with either a physical or magical class build depending on who you choose as his mother. Having said that, even with someone like Elise as his mother to boost his magic as much as possible, he's still not able to reach quite as high of stats as other units like Forrest or Ophelia, but he's still not a terrible choice by any stretch to dump a magic mom onto if you don't have anyone else you really want them to S support with. Forrest, on the other hand, isn't as flexible as Dwyer, since without taking his mother's stats into consideration, he really only excels at magic and resistance, with mediocre to shit growths in everything else, and he really wants either Felicia or Nyx to be his mom in Conquest (you also obviously have Sakura in revelation as well, and she's arguably his best choice in that game), but I also find that Azura makes a pretty decent mom for him as well to give him better speed and skill while having better magic than any other mom I didn't already mention. Between the two, I think that Dwyer is overall better since he can fill different classes depending on who Jakob marries, and he also has much better availability than Forrest if you are using female Corrin. Forrest, meanwhile, is better as a staff bot and will also be better at any role that uses a tome offensively since he at worst (if only considering the more magically oriented moms) have a slightly better base magic growth than Dwyer, while also likely having a higher base stat thanks to being Leo's son
In my first Three Houses playthrough, I had Mercedes mix healing and Magic. She could not only deal a lot of damage, but heal herself and others. Even on causal, she and Byleth were my only two standing after the Church of Seiros Rhea boss
On my first maddening run my Mercedes was very resistance blessed so she could handle all the high damage mages early on that doubled my whole army. She had pretty good magic as well. She was a life saver
For you which is the best class for Marianne: valkyrie, dancer, gremory, holy Knight or dark flier?
I disagree with Mist and rate her higher just because I think healing in POR matters more than what people give it credit for, as well as there are maps were using the other staffs such as sleep and restore (Without a King is the map where I think highlights this the best) is nice, especially on a mounted unit. Yes the earth affinity combo is really good and does make Ike and Oscar better, but there's still units who defensively speaking are lacking hut they still add a lot to the team, the mages stick out in my head for this because of their ability to use effectiveness against Laguz which can be extremely helpful for killing them, Boyd's bulk is often lacking even with his high HP pool and he requires consistent healing if he wants to manage, and so on.
Mist has her place and I always field her when I get the chance just because of the utility she brings, furthermore she, like all mounted units, has the utility in rescue dropping which does help immensely in Path of Radiance.
Mist isn't a godly unit of course, but I definitely Tellius works in her favor if you do what you suggested with the low investments route.
I think people to tend to downplay healing a bit in POR because of the player unit quality, there are a lot of situations where I'd say healing is really useful in that game.
I would be ok even moving maribelle down. Her movement in the early game is largely hindered by the fact that she dies incredibly easily so she has to often stand back and there are several desert maps. Most times it's favorable to stick with lissa because she will have a much higher lv and stats by the time maribelle joins due in part to the turtlely nature of the first couple of maps. It also doesn't help that after chapter 9, you get access to paralogue 4 which gives you a fantastic healer/thief hybrid who has troubadour movement with infantry penalties. Maribelle also sucks in a grindless complete every paralogue run of awakening because she gains support points slower than normal due to not dual striking or attacking for herself and because healing various party members is typically counter productive to building supports with a specific partner.
One other big factor is really how effectively pairup can be used as a movement boost, so the marginal benefit of her movement over Lissa's rarely ends up feeling relevant. Awakening EXP curves also really don't help her. And tbh even without "DLC", lots of people will happily dip into Spotpass shops to just buy an early Physic staff for any direct healing needs.
She would be better and can effectively outperform some of the troubadours in other games due to buyable E-Rank Rescue. But she doesn't really end up being 'more' effective than (as you mentioned) Lissa, Anna, etc.
Honestly, I think Forrest has an edge over Dwyer and maybe Elise just bc you can amp up his magic with Nyx as a mother, and I might be wrong but I believe magic is very important for offensive staffs, plus you can easily make him a nuke sorcerer with Nosferatu
True but (I don't know the full ins and outs of Fates marriage) couldn't some one just S support Nyx and Jakob and get Dwyer with amped magic earlier?
@@haveagoodday7021 Well I think Dwyer is more mixed stats oriented and sure he'll get a lot of magic but he would still lack in comparison. However, it's sure that you can do almost anything with fates kids so they'll often turn great if you put a little bit of thought into it
Personally I think Dwyer potentially having an op lvl 15 promotion skill super early because of jakob is a huge plus in his book.
I was actually wondering if Walkyrie or Dark Pegasus Marianne was viable due to her being able to level up cavalry pr flying well
I would argue those are her best classes if you want to focus on her combat.
Yeah those are her best offensive classes. She also has Thoron for range and if you put Thyrus on her or pass it to her between your magic units then she can be a good chipper. I personally go for Dancer with her though, she still has utility and horse and riding helps her get Movement +1 and be a good sword dodge tank, which is useful for siege spells and her paralogue. Also if you can or want to, she can use her flying boon for Alert Stance+
I think I can make a really solid case for holy knight Marianne.
First main point is that cav marianne > mage marianne, and paladin Marianne > bishop Marianne. Frozen lance is extremely powerful and can consistently hit one-shot thresholds even on maddening. It’s more vulnerable to stat screw than something like vengeance, but it’s still very very good. A 7-8 move nuke with super canto is better than a 4 move ranged poker. Therefore, offensive spells have very limited utility in the mid game and reason isn’t worth much investment beyond what you need for fiendish blow.
In part 2 the doubling and one shotting thresholds are so extreme that there’s almost no functional difference between nosferatu and blizzard/cutting gale. You either one round a fortress knight or do a big chunk to something else. Aura and Fimbulvetr are almost literally the same spell and are both worse nukes than frozen lance. The only thing any of her reason spells add is the extra range from Thoron, and you shouldn’t go into dark knight just for a little extra damage on that. I see no reason to go past C reason.
Overall, investing in reason adds very little to Marianne’s kit. I think it’s better to just jam holy knight and put the time you saved into accessing macuil evil repelling co, spear of assal, or move +1.
I’m pretty sure Holy knight > dark knight >>> any class without super canto.
The only thing I can think of is if gremory/dark knight can maybe double some things with blizzard + darting blow, but the doubling thresholds strike me as really sketchy and most of those enemies probably die to frozen lance anyway. I’ve also considered paladin being the best because it has one more move and maximizes frozen lance damage, but I think the healing/silence/range utility is good enough to put holy/dark knight ahead of it.
TL;DR: reason magic doesn’t offer much to Marianne’s in part 1 because frozen lance is so nutty you’d rather ditch her spell list for half the game to use it better, and then part 2 maddening is so stupid that the reason spells don’t make a difference. Holy knight wins off lower investment.
Oh, and if Valkyrie/dark flier exist I’m probably straight up wrong. I don’t play with dlc but those classes look pretty good.
Okay, but Dancer Marianne is super great in a Verdant Wind run and there aren't any other units in that path that you want to be a Dancer nearly as much as someone with a boon in Swords and Riding and won't be seeing a lot of combat in Part 2 outside of those specialized builds anyway. If you need heals you can still recruit Linhardt for Physic and train other mages enough to learn some healing spells (Recover on Lorenz is nice to have even if Lorenz himself is a pretty meh unit himself).
I can never seem to make them survive
I think Natasha would go as bishop as the better options as slayer is better.
Yaaay finally :D
A bit late to watching this tier list video, but whatever :P
Trainee unit tier list when?
Before watching: the ones that have quick access to a horse and high base skill early
I mean, according to the manga, Lachesis is kind of under assault from Eldigan.
Good thing the Manga ain't Canon then.
Sleep being C and Silence being B in Thracia is crazy. Sleep is better in literally every single way.
I don't see how Priscilla is better than even Amalda, she literally dies to ballista and siege tomes, which late game, just means she can't get across the map to heal.
Smolcilla
L' Arachel is pretty good Troubadours, She had powerful magical attack and heal, When she upgrade to master class to Valkyrie or Mage Knight, She can use Light or Anima Magic to against enemy and monster, Be careful when she is Mage Knight to against Gorgon use Stone, Because Mage Knight use Anima Magic make She can't avoid Dark Magic and easy turn her beautiful body in to Stone.
I find Maribelle quite useful for my playthroughs like Lissa especially with mend. Same with awakening giving support skills overall. Should be at least B or A as two healers are always welcome
Elise should be S as she comes ealry and is super useful for distance play which is nice to see a main unit be one.
Fates kids honestly I don't use much as they come late or just aren't as fun. Everyone else I like standard healers more
The problems with Conquest kids is that you have better chance to not fuck up their growths if you leave them alone and you don't need 2000 gold to promote them plus most useful skills are learnt endgame like Odin life or death and if you wanna be real funky Elise Trample or the shuriken breaker or bow breaker , life stealer is cool too they're all at 15 promoted meaning that most of the popular kids really want to be recruited late even Xander's son if you level up the gold digger he can gain axefair and go directly wyvern lord .
I agree with you that Maribelle is actually quite useful bc when you level her up and promote her at level 20 when you grind she has nuke potential like most units and hits on the weaker defenses plus she doesn't mages don't scare her and she always has better speed res and luck than all of my lissa making her a tiny bit better in combat bc of dodge and her only real issue is physical hits bc of low hp and low def but everyone in the game has that problem on lunatic and grinding just fixes it cause awakening growth she also has an easier time leveling up than combat units on maddening and can juggernaut and can go back do dark flyer with really strong stats.
And i know it's a bit controversial but Elise in my opinion is just as good as Camilla , yes Xander is crazy and nobody can go up against him BUT even though Camilla stays on the curve some units can catch up to her like gold digger , Effie , Nyx has a matter of fact even though she's called the worst unit of the game (for right reasons) and Elise who can basically have the worst physical growth and base ever and still can 2 round ennemies with pair up bonuses or friends attacks for 5 chapters
@@Girlboss5002 yeah Xander with Charlotte is my favorite ship and she gives a good build with siegbert. I always max out levels as much as possible for the children before getting them so they can be ready to use but honestly my main team is just the norh and hoshido siblings. More fun and better weapons. Awakening meanwhile the kids are much better especially Morgan as even in normal playthrough without grinding I can get her broken with any mother as robin is better to stay growth early on.
I go full axe cleric first to give renewal so they can self heal ealry on as healers to Lissa and Maribelle and give them def up as thier magic is already good to allow them to get some physical stats ealry on. Then I use second seal to go to pegesus rider them dark flier upgrade to allow them to get the full boosts so by the time I make them sage and trabadour or bride in later games they are ready to use range Weapons myself. Also off topic but Maribelle grew on me more and should have been the main wife for chrom as she actually cares about the people while sumia is boring.
I'm surprised people think Elise is bad. Because she comes ealry and has mobility she gets good stats and by the time you max level her you can have her nuke down people while also stay at a good range because she has speed on her. If you get galeforth she can attack run and then heal. I actually use hinoka the least of all the siblings same as Leo as Elise can be your magic user ealry. Xandet I use for slowing the enemy honestly
Sacred stones blazing sword I just use the non mounded units as they got better build anyways
@@ivanbluecool tbh Leo is really bad in his class he's really slow and doesn't give good pair up bonuses if you make him a sorcerer he can be "fixed" and become the best back pack for Nyx and even though Nyx has the better offense he can still be used when you pair her with him cause he does have nice bulk and can stop getting doubled although unlike Odin he has good magic to start off and a good tome plus he's not as growth reliant where as Odin kind of is all over the place and wants everything plus the nosferatu tome needing some thresholds where as Leo just needs Magic and speed , defense can be a bonus stat but not needed .
Sure he's the worst royal but that's because magic in Conquest really have tons of checkmarks to tick off with survivability , speed and attack thresholds and Ninjas plus the fact that 5 out of 6 adult magic units you get (without Corrin ) are all gained really early and all of them are overall fast and can be trained to do stuff early on like Felicia Malig knight who can double and has extreme nuke but does take a bit of ressources , plus Elise and Nyx can both become dodge tank and nuke making it hard for any other adult to keep up and also he's the worst royal cause where as Elise does have questionable bulk even as Malig Knight she can pull through with her luck and speed plus the fact that she nukes and Camilla and Xander chomps the game like it's a walk in the park . I still like him though he's a very good backpack who only needs 2000 gold and forest is bonkers
@@Girlboss5002 Leo has a higher speed growth than Xander and Xander's speed is perfectly fixable, while Elise's dogetanking is fairly questionable considering how much skill enemies have on Lunatic. Another thing is the opprotunity cost of things like making certain units malig knights. For example you might early promote Felicia, when Effie or Silas would've been a better choice, while Leo requires no investment to be goid and is used in 0% growths because of this. And finally CQ is a game of survivability, it's important to be able to take on a variety of enemies which Leo is able to do unlike someone like Xander who dies to mages or Nyx and Eluse, especially when CQ has no grinding.
@@Girlboss5002 nyx is honestly very easy to get hurt as her def is low and she comes late so it's better to just use earlier units overall as by her time you should have a good amount of units. Leo should be good res if he was able to use his tomb all the time but it's honestly not good compared to takumi who can go anywhere with his crit bow and xander and ryouma having 2 range swords.
Honestly Elise gots good time to grow so by the time the rest of the siblings come around she can tank up a lot of the enemies or do damage herself. Forrest takes too long If you just want a healer you got options already with the maid buler Elise or anyone else with a heal. That's probably why the kids aren't as useful compared to awakening as Morgan Brady and Laurent can make good nuke units or healers compared.
Ninjas make good support for lowering def and res or health to end a boss. But not as tanky overall.
Lol I didn’t read the description and I’m just wondering why tf he’s talking about Mist while Fi’s Theme is in the background
Oosawa and Kaga: 3:30 😏😘
Oosawa and Kaga: 3:33 😪
>L'Arachel in D
If I were not a holy woman, I would beat you senseless.
30:37 I think I hear a door opening :P
You couldve used the Heroes Sprites for most of em as well tho
But nice Video
if troubadours can't be bad they should be called trouours
L’Arachel does start a little low for her join chapter but I like her so much I grind her out to Valkriye because L’Arachel is the best girl
A fellow man of culture, I see
L'Arachel should be S purely based on personality. She's an okay unit in my book, too, since it's Sacred Stones after all.
Forrest belongs in S tier for how cute he is
Mist starts unmounted in FE9
I agree that FE9 Mist probably belongs in C, but I really don't see how Mist has an issue getting to C staves, she gets to C rank before she's level 4 (without bxp) and chances are you won't even have a physic staff by then, so unless you just don't use her at all for 6 chapters, it's not really an issue. Imo it's way harder to get her to B sword so she can actually do damage. I'd say she's more bad because of how outclassed she is by Soren and Tormod once they're class changed, the only thing she has on them is movement and canto but if you have physic with 20+ magic it doesn't really matter.
I would still say it’s worth it to use Mist sages start at level E in staves iirc and will take a decent amount of time to get to c, I definitely feel she’s better to use than Tormod because of all the investment you have to put into him to get him to Sage in the first place
It's more that if you take a shortcut to BEXP her to 10, her staff rank doesn't increase. The only way to get her promoted and with good staff rank is to basically grind her up.
Yes yes yes yes yes yes.
My favorite Class.
At 1:47 yo I said you could have put Bernie on here, why? She has a riding boon yeah but but a faith one
I will say that Maribelle is a bit better on Lunatic+, solely because of the demoiselle skill. Giving +10 avoid to nearby male units can help them dodge-tank. However, most players use female Robin, who is doing most of the fighting for a long time, and getting Maribelle to L10 is a pain.
She's not good; Lissa and Anna are much better healers overall, and a couple of Spotpass characters outclass them all (Ethlyn and Laquesis).
I'd also put Marianne in C or D tier. The big thing that differenciates mages from one-another is their spell list, and Marianne's is pretty lame. No note-worthy reason spells, and the only good faith spell is Physic. She does have an easy time getting either master class, but... eh. With DLC, she's fun as a valkyrie.
@@YOSHIERIDER : Marianne has Thoron as a range-3 Reason spell, and Cutting Gale is good. (The ice spells are lame, sure, but just don't use them.) Lysithea & Lorenz would love to have that extra range option Thoron offers, so I think that's a pretty significant thing inn her favor. (And Physic is extremely good, but you already noted that.) Even if we ditch the spells, she has Soulblade & Frozen Lance too for scary range-1 damage. I think she has issues but it's more her stat spread; I think Marianne's spell list is great, up there with Dorothea and maybe Lysithea for the best 3 lists.
*glances around at comments* Wait, no one Arena Abused L'archel on Ephraim route????? Like I just made her my designated healer then and her levels shot right up in a single chapter. Like yeah, on Erika she's a chore to level up, but on Ephraim they give you the ability to actually pump her up lol.
Well if you grind a unit they'll obviously be good in FE8
Marrianne in F tier is a fucking crime.
No Emma from TLP? Oh, Mekkah.
Emma is kinda nice. I'd prolly put her in A, maybe B.
Why isn't Mercedes classified as a troubadour too, I thought Marianne and merce were basically the same archetype
Marianne has a boon in faith and riding and she has a hidden talent in lances. Mercedes lacks the riding boon and has a lance bane. Marianne is built to go holy knight(troubadour archetype) while Mercedes with her reason boon is built to go gremory(sage/bishop archetype)
Thracia Nanna deserver S tier. Don't forget capturing, scrolls, rescue taxi's and staff utility. Sure she needs the investment, hut Nanna will never suck and always preform, no matter how bad she grew.
Maribelle is great when you grind her and she can become a effective mage killer when she becomes a Valkyrie , I gave her like 2 Draco shields and a lot of spirit dust plus like 3 talisman and she has good stat growths besides her defense and strength but she doesn’t need her strength at all since she is much better as a magical support unit and not to mention her skill pool with galeforce,tomefaire,life taker, dual support + and renewal… it’s maribelle S tier for me ♥️
I won't tolerate this Maribelle slander!
While it's true that you probably won't use lots of player phase healing past chapter 17 or so (outside of paralogues), healing is still very useful in awakening, particularly on lunatic and above where it's absolutely invaluable and keeping your army nice and healthy in the early maps is an incredibly valuable thing.
It's true that Lissa is better, but I don't count this as a point against Maribelle, mainly because I consider Lissa to be the 3rd best unit in the game (Robin and Fred occupying slots 1 and 2). You still get more out of using both of them.
As for rescue utility, you can't have too many rescue users. Are Lissa/Libra/Anna/Ricken/Miriel going to have more range? Yes. But once you can buy it infinitely from ch12 you can use it to skip most of the maps in the game. From ch13, the only main story maps you can't 1-turn using rescue are chapters 15,23 and 24 because they are rout maps. More rescue users means your rescue chain is longer, making it possible/easier to rescue skip some of the longer maps, such as chapter 20 and 21.
And while it's true that horses aren't super great in awakening, 7-8 move is still nice to have. It leaves more options open to you than having only 5-6 move.
Finally, she's better than Ricken/Libra/Anna/Miriel at staffing before they join. An obvious point, I know, but if Ricken/Miriel isn't promoted and Anna/Libra aren't recruited, the fact that they are better staffers is irrelevant. A 4 map (+ paralogues) availability advantage over Libra and Anna as well as however long it takes for the player to raise a mage to 10 and promote is a fairly significant amount of time.
I would say that Maribelle is still not a great staff user, but staff users in awakening are so broken thanks to infinite rescue. You really can't rate her lower than B tier.
The main problem with Lissa and Maribelle is that they are stafflocked, they gain exp at a much slower rate than units that can fight. They are not getting past Anna or Libra's base Mag, Ricken and)/or Miriel can get to lv 10 in less turns and it is very likely they have more Mag than Lissa and Maribelle on top of having more magic rank if you wanted them to use Celica's Gale for whatever reason. The more Rescuers the merrier but Maribelle and Lissa are nowhere near the best.
@@Juan-zs6jt
The fact that they are stafflocked is not a downside, exp wise. They get their own infinite source of exp and can usually get a heal in every turn, especially on the harder modes. Once you start getting rescue/physic those staffs give a lot of exp also.
Ricken/Miriel will not get to level 10 in less turn than Lissa/Maribelle. It simply won't happen. Miriel joins at level 1, 2 chapters after Lissa joins. She does not have a viable enemy phase and thus can only kill enemies on player phase. Lissa will absolutely reach level 10 before her, as she will always be able to get a good heal in every turn vs Miriel getting chip exp and occasional kills.
Ricken joins at level 3, 5 chapters and a paralogue after Lissa. He isn't getting to 10 faster.
Even then, they could get to level 10 as fast as they want, that still wouldn't negate the fact that Lissa and Maribelle have a monopoly on the early game rescue and physic staves. These are the only units that can use these items.
Anna/Libra/Ricken/Miriel have slightly more magic (assuming ricken/miriel are in sage) but the availability advantage that Maribelle and Lissa has means that they literally exist in maps that others don't. Libra could have 1 billion base magic and he still can't do anything in chapter 6 because he physically is not deployable.
This is ignoring that Ricken and Miriel require copious amounts of training and exp that could go to other units while Lissa/Maribelle train themselves for free. Especially on lunatic/lunatic+ where you spend a lot more turns healing due to the strength of the enemies.
I never said that Maribelle was the best rescuer, I said she's a pretty meh staffer but turns out rescue is really freaking good.
As for Lissa, she is objectively a better unit than the other staffers. She joins from the first map in the game, meaning she has perfect availability. As for Libra/Annas supposedly "better" magic stat when they do join, it's hardly a significant difference.
10/1 Lissa averages 13-14 magic compared to Libras 16 (on lunatic). That's literally 1 rescue range less than him. 15/1 averages the same magic as him, and only 2 less than Annas 18 magic.
And Lissa will also outscale Libra/Anna/Ricken/Miriel as upon reaching level 10 sage, she can second seal to falcon knight. Having a high magic falcoknight can make lots of the endgame one turns insanely easy and is invaluably strong.
So, Lissa is better in the earlygame than Libra/Anna because she exists before them, and is better than Ricken/Miriel because she isn't fishing for exp with terrible combat.
She is on par with the prepromotes in the midgame when they join, so they are about even.
She then goes on to outscale them by getting a pair of wings.
How is she worse, exactly?
I agree that healers are bad mid to late game in Awakening when Robin and Nosferatu tanks start going online, but I disagree that Maribelle is outclassed Lissa (since Lissa is terrible outside of the first few chapters). I'm being pedantic since I think Maribelle is a pretty bad unit anyways but if we're talking about being outclassed as a healer, both Anna and Libra are the units that outclass her. Decent staff rank, decent bases and they don't die in one hit (in Hard), plus Anna has move +1 and gives her pair up partner +1 move in her base class. But, to give credit to Maribelle, she is good in her starting chapter since she can move Ricken out of range so he can player phase the wyverns next turn and not die (not in Lunatic+ tho).
Homer can also nosferatu after promotion
Every time I see fe9/10 characters, I keep considering playing those 2 games
Never played them, but every time I've seen the game, I've loved the world the game creates, and especially the cheesy as hell cut scenes
Also the Usain Bolt Black Knight
You should try them. Out side of playing a bit slow, they are in my opinion the most mechanically sound fe games in the franchise
@@gameboyn64 might give it a go when I have more time
It's probably important to mention that FE7 warp is way worse than FE6 warp, considering just how late it comes. She can use it, sure, but it's useful for two maps, and you have better users of it for those maps too.
Mist also doesn't super struggle to reach physic since mend gives more wexp, and so does ward. She has E at base, but is closer to D, it's E with a little bit of wexp. Physic comes kinda late as well outside of maniac mode stealing.
Another funny thing, re: Marianne, is that she actually heals higher as a dark knight than holy knight because she has more magic.
Maribel is definitely D tier on Lunatic. Dead in a ditch.
Best girl in S-Tier B)
i watched this just to know how to pronounce troubadour
30:10 minor comment, if its turn 1 and you're far away from the enemies, no one is getting anything done that turn besides moving so Mist is just as bad as the other foot locked units. The other points apply (it would be nice to have something like the Ward staff) but the only units that have an advantage in this scenario would be the Laguz that need to eat grass turn 1 to get ready.
This is true, but a combat unit is at least able to get in position and do something on turn 1 EP. Healers can't do anything on that EP.
Great list. The only change I personally would make is to swap Cecelia and Clarine. Everytime I play fe6, unless I go out of my way to train Clarine, she's like lvl 8 when Cecelia joins, and thus Cecelia is much better. More move, stronger heals, and the ability to fight back. So I guess it comes down to whether you value the early game utility of Clarine over the later game versatility of Cecelia. I can see the argument for both. But I personally always either use both and drop Saul, or drop Clarine for Cecelia.
Heal + Canto 😩😩😩
Tearing Saga is the only FE-like game where I think mounted healers are bad. Simply because the other clerics tend to have enough Mastery to use Physic at base, in a game where the only heal staves are “Heal” and “Physic”
Like for example, Mel, is only really used for her Ensorcel Staff, and not for any actual healing. When all of your healers have infinite range Physic, movement doesn’t really matter.
I personally think Dwyer and Forrest both being B tier makes a lot of sense. I think Dwyer is a great healer but his personal skill is generally useless so he doesn't warrent being used as a healer over Elise in conquest or either of the little sisters in Revelations. However Forrest is really just a mounted mage, he's technically a troubadour but I always promote him early and give him a good magic mom because dear god that boy will surpass his father in combat potential in a heartbeat. But really he should get S tier because he's queercoded. thank you. Goodnight.
Counterpoint about dwyer’s personal being bad. For one, his personal being bad isn’t a deal breaker unless he doesn’t fit a niche that the other healers can’t, and isn’t worth the space to field in the army. He could be worse than the other healers, but that doesn’t actually make him himself, less good.
But also His dad is Jakob, Jakob can get lvl 15 skills really early and, because of his high lvl cap, can get a lot of them as well. If it were really that important to have a defensive aura skill, Jakob could just pass down inspiration. But that’s just one of the many skills Jakob could gain access to. Ignoring friendship seals, he can get ninja(for replicate) through Kagero, he could get Amaterasu through Setsuna or Hinoka, he could get magic counter through Sakura, so on and so forth. Yes, Jakob would be better, given that he can have more of the skills, but Dwyer having something like replicate in early game makes him really good.
I've always really liked troubadours, because they are a class that tends to be very good, but they don't dominate the game on their own. Some responses to Mekkah's points:
+I personally think that people tend to undervalue Charm in FE4, and would put Nanna a tier above Janne (in S tier) because of it. Enemies in Gen 2 of FE4 usually hit very hard, but have fairly low hit rates. The extra +10 avoid from Charm might not sound like a lot, but it can do a lot more than you might think because of this (and the way math works). For instance, going from enemies having 20 hit to 10 hit means you doubled your durability. Basically, when enemy hit rates are around 20-35ish, subtracting an extra 10 does a lot -- those are high enough hit rates to be threatening (and thus an avoid buff is useful), but still low enough that throwing in a -10 significantly lowers the expected value of the number of hits your unit is going to take.
Also, while it usually isn't necessary, it is also nice that Charm and Leadership can bring an enemy's hit rate to 0, and enemies will still attack you (which they don't normally do if their hit is brought to 0 through just Speed/luck/terrain and they still have their leader alive). The hit rate boost from Charm is also quite helpful, because you occasionally fight bosses with a bunch of leadership and/or are on castles that can have very high avoid. And it's just useful for making strategies 100% reliable rather than mostly reliable, by eliminating the chance for a miss.
+One thing that's interesting to note about GBA staff units, is that both Bishops and Valkyries get bonus exp for kills compared to every other promoted unit except Assassins and Rogues (in the games where those exist). Basically they gain exp from kills as if they were ~7 levels lower than they are, which is a fair amount. So while they struggle for exp prior to promotion, in theory they gain extra after promotion. In practice, I find it depends on which character we're talking about, but generally after promotion they tend to gain exp at about the same rate as your other units, because you are often using staves with them rather than fighting (and often their combat isn't great), which gives even less exp than it did pre-promotion.
+Awakening isn't really my expertise, but I think Maribelle is probably better than you're giving her credit for. Maribelle's has slightly lower bases (and similar growths) compared to Lissa, but not by much -- I think the reason you see a huge gap between them is just because you've been using Lissa way more. And like Lissa, she can become very good if you reclass her to Pegasus Knight at some point, either to make her a Falcon Knight (to get Rally Speed and keep her staff utility), or especially a Dark Flier (because Dark Fliers are busted).
+This is a minor point, but you make a point that when Elise is using Lily's Poise she may stop dual strikes from happening, because she has to be next to your unit and she can't attack. This is rarely ever an issue, because on Player Phase you can toggle which unit to dual strike with, and on Enemy Phase you are usually going to be paired up (where you can't dual strike anyway) to prevent yourself from getting dual struck. Even if you do want to dual strike on EP while having Lily's Poise, you can still do it if the unit you are using to Dual Strike has more support points than Elise. It is nice to be able get the dual strike + Lily's Poise all on one unit just because you don't necessarily have space for multiple units though.
But it's not really worth calling out Wyvern Elise as being notable for that reason because it isn't that helpful until she promotes, because her strength/skill are bad and she probably has low axe rank (it is nice for training her axe rank though, and trained Wyvern Elise is very good). Which, once she's promoted, Elise can also dual strike as a Strategist/Maid.
EDIT: WTF youtube, why does putting minus signs strike out all my text?
To your point about Elise: I honestly feel that wyvern rider Elise is not very good, since, as you mentioned, she doesn't have a good strength stat and she has to start with an E rank in axes, so most of what you're really getting out of reclassing her is a [bad] dual strike support unit. And sure, she can become better after she's able to promote into a malig knight and gets a C rank in axes to use the bolt axe, but it's going to take a good amount of investment to get her to that point, especially if you aren't grinding and want to use your arms scrolls on other units. That being said, and while I won't say there's no merit to reclassing her, I wouldn't personally say it's the most optimal choice, personally, and she's a more effective staff bot than Felicia or Jakob are ultimately
@@matthewkuscienko4616 I'm not really sure myself exactly how good Wyvern Elise is, but I don't think it's necessarily fair to evaluate it by looking mostly at her performance as an unpromoted wyvern rider. You're not choosing between Elise joining as a wyvern rider or troubadour -- you get to pick the moment she changes over, and she doesn't necessarily have to spend that much time as an unpromoted wyvern before becoming a Malig Knight, especially if you are willing to use an Arms Scroll. If you want, you can even not bother training her axe rank and just use both a Master Seal and Heart Seal at the same time, and just use magic rather than the Bolt Axe (and either train her axe rank later or ignore it altogether). I don't think that's ideal -- I think it generally makes sense to Heart Seal her at the start of chapter 11 or 13 (chapter 12 she's unavailable), because those aren't very difficult chapters, so they're good to train her axe rank on. You get the Arms scroll in Chapter 13, and the armory starts selling the Bolt axe immediately after. After beating chapter 14 is usually around when units start promoting.
Also, Fates makes it pretty easy to train units even if they don't hit very hard, thanks to dual strikes. Even a unit that does 0 damage (which, Elise isn't that bad) can take out half an enemy's health with help from a Camilla dual strike. At least in terms of exp, I actually prefer training her as a wyvern than as a troubadour, because staff exp in Fates falls off the higher level you get, and I find Elise typically falls behind around chapter 13. I would never promote troubadour Elise at level 20, but as a wyvern it's an option.
As for what you get out of reclassing her, you lose staff utility, but you get flier utility, a pretty big hunk of defense, slightly better pair-up bonuses, and (if you trained her axe rank) the option of hitting very hard with the Bolt Axe. The Malig Knight skills are good too, though Strategist skills are also pretty good. But I love Savage Blow.