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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- I rank all the playable dancers and refreshers in the series based on their usefulness. Oh, and Xane.
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Mekkah's Expectations - Shove everyone in the S or A tier
Reality -Everyone carefully placed into S or A tier
Shadow Dragon Xane is actually the best because... THREE BALLISTAS!!
Indeed
Mekkah: releases dancer tier list
Garon: groans of increasing discomfort
GRRRRAAAAAAGGGGHHHH!!!
UGH...
UGH...!
Still can‘t believe those were actually subs
@sonpham3438 they had to clarify it was discomfort. To me, it looked like Garon was enjoying his step-daughter strip teasing a little too much.
44:28 “I know conquest isn’t in Saizo” Mekkah 2020.
If Saizo isn't in CQ, then what is chapter 17? Checkmate atheists.
Lmao XD
No Dancer Dimitri, I'm disgusted.
Ignatz tho
I think Ingrid makes better use of the avo + 20 skill
@@kilaquill2537 I made Lorenz my dancer, but then again he was Charm blessed and got +2 on his first 2 levels.
@@freakyfrogi9796 dimitri uses avo+ 20 way better because his personal skill post time skip gives 20 avo at full hp. That with Avo gambit and evasion ring he can't get hit.
Ferdinand for me, he became quite a dodge king
"Let me know if I forgot any dancers, god I hope not" For once you actually did, Elphin, he's pretty much the same unit as Lalum but you still technically forgot him
Elphin has more con (because he's a man, and men have more con *laughs in 6'2"*), which makes him harder to rescue, but probably he'd just say that the better one depends on the difficulty of the route.
@@ravenvictoria412 im p sure his con is relatively light so most units can rescue him without much of an issue
@@ravenvictoria412 Ninian and Nils: ...
Doesn't his mere existence increase the tier of both Lalum and himself, because it gives you the ability to bard train?
@@pocketwatched you only get one or the other
Going over the comments real quick:
Sorry for forgetting Elphin, but thankfully it was the exact same unit as Larum so you're not missing much.
Faye is not a dancer or refresher. She's a healer that can use a spell that has the same effect. I think if she'd learned it very early I would've given her a spot, since SoV is missing a representative, but as is she just doesn't count. I'd have to throw a bunch of FE12 units on here for being able to use the Again Staff eventually, which is more available.
Just so you know, FE3 Xane doesn't copy max HP, so he is waaaaay worse than his FE1 and FEDS counterparts.
I'd still consider Faye a proper dancer, since, unlike the Anew staff in FE3 and 12, the spell Anew is entirely unique to her, can technically be used as often as you want, and does exactly what Dance in other games does.
I find her somewhat similar to Lara, in that she doesn't start out as a dancer, but gains dancer utility later in the game after fulfilling a certain condition. The only thing preventing Faye from being classified as a Dancer is the lack of a dedicated Dancer class, since her dancer utility is not locked to class, but rather to her spell list.
If Faye is not a dancer for unlocking Dance late, then neither is Lara tbh.
@@yellowhello2729 not comparable at all lmao, cleric faye learns anew at level 14 promoted, which simply does not happen in a normal playthrough until the postgame, and even then it’s unlikely that she even gets that far before you’ve cleared all that the game has in store. Lara on the other hand promotes to dancer in 12x, which is roughly halfway through the game, it’s a bit later than other dancers but it’s still very useful for a big chunk of the game.
@brramble Exactly. You get Anew at the end of the game. What he is saying is the same as putting in a Merric archetype list and putting Gotoh because he is a mage and male.
Another thing you forgot to mention about Azura: At level 10 she learns a skill where she gives +3 Speed/Skill/Luck to the refreshed unit, which is really good if you need a unit to double a fast enemy (and the hit bonus is nice too i suppose).
olivia learns a similar skill but it increases strength, magic, defense, resistance by +2
olivia learns a similar skill but it increases strength, magic, defense, resistance by +2
and whoever the 3H dancer is can get the same thing as Azura, but 1 point more into each stat.
@@jgree5514 really what is it?
Kind of surprised Flayn isn’t on the list tbh. I always thought she was pretty primed to be the go to dancer since most of your other units are already on the way to their future classes.
I agree, she also joins with enough charm to win the heron cup
@@Jobulejobies Doro>Flayn
Flayn is a +MT backpack for Byleth. She’s also only usable in 3/4 paths, that’s why most people take Dorothy for Meteor Linked or Marianne for Move +1.
@@nikkof5384 And Seteth. Given Flayn's easy flight and Seteth's swift strike, that might matter more.
Dorothea is technically the canon dancer.
Dorothea is actually an amazing dancer because you can equip meteor before/when dancing, this way she gives dance utility AND a guaranteed link boost/support for units within her meteor's range. This is super helpful for player phase accuracy when having a first unit initiate, and she's the only dancer capable of learning a siege spell (unless you make Hilda one for whatever reason, Hanneman and Manuela can't dance). Plus, equipping Meteor then cancelling doesn't actually use up her turn
Constantinople has bolting, although that's dlc
This is super overrated. linked boost is like 3 hit and avo with no support, then 5 at C, 7 at B, 10 at A. If you're playing black eagles then she'll probably get B or A with most of the units you use but she only has 3 blue lions supports and 1 golden deer support so she'll really only be giving 3 hit and avo to units which is not enough to matter. A dancer who has a boon in riding to learn mov plus 1 would be better than her.
@@WickedBlondie Hilda has Blizzard XD
None of that makes Dorothea a better dancer... it just makes her a better unit...
Dancer Hilda ? Challenge. Accepted.
I'm surprised elphim isnt on this tier list but nils is .......bruh
Yeah, I thought the same. (Even if I couldn't remember his name)
Elphin is just Marginally better than Lalum
Elphin and lalum are like the same unit with elphin having slightly better stats which don’t matter, the route is the main difference. The general consensus is that a route is better because it is easier and shorter while b route has a bit more loot. Bartre and echidna are both pretty good units with different niches although I would say that echidna provides combat that most of your other trained units already surpass while bartre has high str which lets him one round wyvern lords with the brave axe and is able to use steel bows at base.
@@Jobulejobies And to me I fimd better stats on a dnaver mlre appealing cause then I can make mlre hasty plays?
lisa semarron pretty much the only thing that increases is his avoid which is not reliable. Both of them will die to any enemy using any weapon past chapter 12
Also notable with Marianne is her getting Blutgang later, which gives her a solid magic Sword.
Low self-esteem and big chest?
She can still deal a good amount of damage with normal swords thanks to Soul Blade and using Levin Sword with her is really good.
Blutgang can be used by other units. Which might be better use for the weapon if Marianne is just dancing.
@@azurethescaletipper210 True but in a situation where you dont need a dance, magic sword marianne does insane damage
@@zai8068 yeah. Swordmaster/Mortal Savant Mari anyone?
"Enemy phase-based games include FE7" 24:01
"FE7 is pretty player phase-based" 28:52
Which is it?
Logical sylogism inconcistency is a pitfall!
Haha. In case you're serious: I meant enemy phase for both of these times.
@@Mekkkah That's what I thought, and I was joking, though I was kind of confused, cause it almost sounded like you were using player phase focus as an argument for why rings aren't that useful.
-I mentioned it the last time you talked about it but you get Move+1 about 9 weeks earlier, unless you resort to tutor rigging, with a dance boon. In my AM LTC I got Bernie to Move+1 in C16 which was very relevant because a Dance of the Goddess + Dancer exactly reaches Ladislava only if the Dancer has move +1. The same is important in C17 as the same strategy exactly reaches Edelgard. You can get it by these maps without the boon but it will require you rig a certain number of perfects or use the sauna DLC. You can technically still 1 turn these maps without this as can bee seen on other routes such as VW but those strategies rely much more on a high warp range but that is going to require garden rigging or level up rigging. The main takeaway is that on AM a riding boon is important as it saves a significant amount of reliability in 2 maps if you try to get the minimum turns.
-You're right that it isn't the biggest deal though. For 90% of the game the character you choose for dancing will not change anything but since everyone is so focused on what makes for "the best" dancer it's the 10% of the game that gets talked about. As for the meteor trick, I don't think it's very useful outside of in really casual play where you keep your units bunched up a lot. I almost never had my main units within 10 spaces of a dancer when doing combat and when I did it was a short enough distance that a longbow had me covered. Further Dorothea's support list is decidedly mediocre outside of of CF and on AM/VW you'd get a lot better units to be able to take advantage with Hilda's support list such as Seteth, Cyril, and Claude(VW). Also unlike move+1 the Meteor/Bolting utility is not exclusive to being a dancer and can be exploited if they play the role of a gambit bot. If move+1 is overrated than Meteor/Bolting is more so.
Hilda does get overlooked as a dancer candidate despite having the same advantages as Dorothea plus better supporters. Probably because Hilda's a better combat unit who's less obviously inclined to magic, and because Marianne is such a natural for the role by comparison. But I did have a crappy Hilda once that I transitioned to the role in a specific run I tried and she did it fine.
It is a battle of the 10% advantage I do agree, and I do think Mekkah is selling the move+1 skill short for skilled play. Though I also think in unplanned runs it's also a competition for how easy it is to get charisma, which is the other (maybe larger) advantage Dorothea has with her high base and decent growth. Usually not an issue, but I have seen it come up enough that it kind of matters if you're not recruiting out of house or using Flayn. Very rare that Dorothea can't be a reliable dancer with little investment on home routes.
I fully agree with making a unit with riding strength a dancer especially Marianne. I did a semi-efficient LTC of Golden Deer Maddening difficulty and that +1 Mov on Marianne makes it easier to save a turn on CH16 and CH17 (Both can be completed in 1 turn with efficient strategy and gardening even on Maddening). Another benefit of making Marianne a dancer is her paralouge. Having a Dancer!Marianne during this paralouge makes it an easy one turn since you don't have to warp a Dancer to the boss and can use that extra warp spell to bring another high-damaging unit to the boss or a unit with the Dance of the Goddess Battalion. While the 3-10 range dancer has use for casual playthroughs, the +1 Mov for the later Chapters is so useful for saving a turn or two on those late Chapters during a LTC.
@@OnlineVideoSurfer When it comes to choosing a dancer for Three Houses it goes like for me:
Casual or Ironman: Dorothea > Marianne
LTC: Marianne > Dorothea
You forgot to mention that the Herons are some of the best magic tanks in their games, mitigating a bit of the dancer fragility and making them great for baiting enemy mages.
I wasn't expecting Sylvia to be ranked higher than Lene. Lene has inheritance and better availability.The rescue staff is also more available in gen II than it is in gen I which allows Lene to dance and then get rescued to the front lines, meaning she can dance again the following turn.
FE4 rescue staff warps you directly to your home castle, which most of the time puts you so far back that you can't keep up at all
You also have to be next to a unit to use rescue on them
@@rggrill3588 That's the return staff. The rescue staff moves any unit within ten tiles of the caster to a tile adjacent to the caster.
@@joshualosh6197 mb I probably thought of the Rescue/Return ring
wrong, dancers are useless in every way. They cant even fight and have terrible survivability so how can they help clear maps faster? They have infantry movement so only lame foot locked units are able to benefit from the miminal helpfullness of dancers. In every game except fe4 they take up a valueable deployment spots that a way more broken unit can fill. Limtiing myself to using a dancer is the most smalll brain idea i've ever seen. Also ninian is the best one because she can dance for lyn to help her get kills until lyn's amazing growths kick in. Then after lyn becomes pwange incarnate ninian can dance for Nino help her become better than pent way more quickly.
had me in the first half ngl
I was gonna go balistic on you after that first part ngl ya got me
Is that you BlazingKnight??
@@Mekkkah In all seriousness, I do feel the combo of high move mounted units with dancer support just doesn't calculate. I get the point (let your best units move twice), but generally wouldn't you just end up with your mounts SUPER far away from your dancer, thus making said dancer more-or-less dead weight?
Hooded Roxas sometimes your mounted units will be like half an extra movement range away, so a dance in the middle of their initial move allows for further reach.
Another minor point against Xane: XP thief. I know it's a meme sure, but it's actually an issue with him that other dancers don't face.
None of them really need XP, but using Xane does take XP away from other units. This is in contrast with dancers, who generate their own XP and even enable other units to get more XP with the extra turn.
It's definitely not a major flaw but it is another contrast with other dancers. I wouldn't even argue that it pushes him down a tier, just wanted to note the issue.
And xp matters because?
If we're going to care about XP, you're forgetting to mention the flip side of this argument: while Xane takes XP away from other units, dancers reduce the number of units that are getting XP by one so using one actually helps your units level up faster.
I mean. At that point of SD and FE12. Xp doesn't matter much.
I think Flayn is usually a dancer since she starts in your class with a high charm and she rarely loses in the Dance contest.
As someone who really doesn't like doing warp skips I really gained bit of a new appreciation for Xane from Mangs' Shadow Dragon playthrough when he showed of that Xane can copy the ballisticians too. It's just something that never crossed my mind before that.
THREE BALLISTICIANS!!!
Obligatory TRS and Vestaria Saga comment.
Plum: she gets her dancer promotion in probably the creepiest way ever. Anyways her dancing is useful since she can give random bonuses as well. she can also use staves (starts off as a healer) who joins in ch2 prior to becoming a dancer but she's dancing mostly and the random bonuses to a stat can be nice although not very reliable and not something that one would expect. She becomes a dancer on Holmes side after she is sent to Runan route. Very solid unit overall and top 5 in TRS
Lyttia from Vestaria Saga: she has a prf tome with built in cancel (sort of) that paralyses opponents for a turn as long as she hits and has vantage that effectively makes opponents not be able to really attack her on EP. However arbalest or anything where Lyttia can't hit back (so 3 range or more) she's effectively dead. She is very good for dancing (she whips them to move again) although her availability is pretty iffy (joins ~after the midpoint of the game)
Something to note about Lyttia is that enemies will almost always go for her since the AI in Vestaria Saga goes for damage above everything else and they don't know they'll get stunned. This is can trivialise many powerful enemies that you can't kill in one player phase, like the chapter 13 gargoyles,
@@joshualosh6197 she also can help you to recruit like 5 characters in her join chapter (freezing Jamulan after you half-recruited Lianca/Hilda/Sigfried and then talk with Cyltan to teleport Neira to the much better position)
Nils and Ninian but no Elphin
Suffering
Poor Elphin forever forgotten
0 out of 10, no FE3 Again staff, all three uses of it.
In FE1, FE11 and FE12, Xane stays tranformed for 5 turns no matter what. In FE3, he stays tranformed for 7 turns plus a random number that ranges from 1 or 0 to 3 (Serenes forest says 0~3, while the wiki.org says 1~3, so I’m no sure on that front).
No Elphin on here, rip :I
I very much agree that Lene is better than Laylea though. An immediate leg ring and knight ring dancer is way more useful than an extra charm unit that shouldn't be near combat anyway
I just like being able to hit bosses, since FE4 also has that godawful big shield skill I like to maximize hit rates since I'm already missing 20-30% of the time guaranteed. It isn't that hard to give Laylea money with Patty, she can get a ton of money by selling stuff in Chapter 7, and IMO the Leg ring is good enough, she doesn't need the Knight ring to be effective.
But this means no leg ring of Seliph for the first chapter, wich is very useful to make him powerlevel there.
Horse Johnson in a sub run, Charm is very useful. However if Laylea is the only substitute, your army probably already has OP weapons, Seliph’s leadership stars, and Lachesis’ kids have Charm. Laylea’s charm is just overkill at that point.
Horse Johnson The thing with Patty's gold is Leif does gets dibs on it as well since he needs a bit of money for the Paragon Ring if you messed with his inheritance, do you know how much gold Laylea needs to get the Horse Rings? 60k when Lene can inherit them instantly or having Bargain to lower their cost.
Besides, most FE4 bosses are real chumps. You can kill them with a Brave Sword or Brave Lance user easily, let alone using Ares or Shannan if he manage to reach combat as well.
One step closer to the Julian tier list. I’m sure the fact that it’s taking so long is a sign that Mekkah wants to make sure it’s truly the greatest one.
I wish the special dances in FE10 were more relevant. As much fun as boosting biorhythm to max is, I think they could have come up with something a little more interesting. Like giving max lagua gauge or something.
Late but oh well.
Azura can dip into kinshi knight with a heart seal for amaterasu, which stacks with her personal to give a renewal level aura which is hilarious. Inspiring song also gives +3 skl/spe/lck, that speed can be a huge difference maker.
As far as I'm concerned Anakin is the THE POWER IS WITHIN YOU dancer, couldn't imagine playing TLP with animations on lol
There is one thing about Xane I don't think you took into consideration when comparing his unique differences compared to dancers. While it is true that he doesn't offer extra mobility, what he does offer is extra map presence. That is he can literally let your best unit be in two places at once. While there are many maps where this won't be a very big point, as you'll want a lot of your force moving in the same direction anyways(especially since Marth is the only one who can visit villages after all), but there are times where you can, say, use Palla's insane power and flying to attack in two different places to kill troublesome enemies.
Overall I don't disagree with your placement for him, but I do think this is something very interesting about him as a unit.
2 Wolfs break the entire game.
The biggest reason why I made Marianne a dancer during my Golden Deer LTC Maddening run was that I felt healing was unnecessary for the later maps. For Chapters 16 and 17, it's possible to easily end both chapters in 2 turns especially with that +1 Mov on Marianne made getting to Edelgard easier with Bernie on Chapter 17. While there's use for healing during the early to mid game, but once you enter the Mid to Late game (Ch10 - Ch22) most of the maps have kill boss objectives where it's possible to end the map in one or two turns. Plus if you are doing Marianne's paralouge it's an easy map to one-turned with a dancer Marianne since it saves a warp use meaning you can use that extra warp to get a High-damaging unit to the Boss.
Azura is available for all of BR and Rev, in CQ you have chapter 7 and 8 before you get her, but that's still 20 chapters + paralogues of use
Mekkah. You are very quickly becoming my favorite TH-camr. Thanks for your effort and your attention to detail.
"Wait they're all S tier?"
"Always has been"
Happy teacher's day @Mekkah! Haven't watched the video yet, but I know it's gonna be great!
I feel like Flayn Should have been in the tier list, and maybe Annette From 3 houses.
I disagree with making Annette a dancer. Making Annette a dancer would disincentivize the use of Annette's rallies. Plus Annette having a strength in authority makes her an excellent unit to use strong B and A rank utility gambits. Having Annette do gambits, rallies, and dancing would weaken the effectiveness of dancing since you are also spending time to use Rallies and Gambits.
@@leoniesuperfan1946 yeah man annette on a wyvern is funny af, she's a rally bot on a flying mount and magic axe
23:35 Lalum has something special. The BGM “Lalum Attack” aka the last occurrence of dancer combat music.
~17:00 Dumb thought. The barrier sword works against status staffs, yes? Does it enable any sword units to reach the res benchmarks to be immune to status staffs (if this extremely situational use matters).
35:19 It appears to be intending to maintain translation consistency while possibly misreading Japanese and/or lacking context resulting in silliness which we roll with because we've been calling it that for over a decade now. FE9 birdsong was called "act again" in Japanese. Canto was a creative change here (even if thinking about it 'Reyson used the canto chant' is a bit redundant). FE10 introduced a formal name for mounted units moving again called "move again" (though NPCs in GBAFE villages had already referred to the action as move again). Now the Kanji for "act again" and "move again" look very similar giving a reason that you can think they refer to the same action and then you check to see it was already localised as Canto. Other thing is Canto is similar to canter (that's the horse gallop). At least it's not a "Kidink" (Youth > Kid thus, You think > Kidink; that is not from FE).
Since the FE1 FE3 book 1 thing keeps being mentioned (FE2 and echoes too I guess). I should I have a folder of FE1 and FE2 portraits somewhere (note: these are the ones serenesforest have on their character introduction pages because they are from the same source). Problem with using them is the coloured backgrounds and small image sizes which might not make them ready to roll with this format.
2:08 You're telling me the website which ranks Manuela at number 1 in their top 10 dancers was wrong? (IIRC Claude, Edelgard and Dimitri were also in their top 10) Oh I should have known something was up when they said recover was the best weapon in Three Houses...
I know you already covered some of them in the magical boys and girls tier lists but I'm curious about a dark mage tier list because of how differently they can play. For example you have Salem and Niime who have great staff utility, Tharja and Henry who have nosferatu tanking, Knoll and Ewan with summoner utility, Hubert Lysithea and Hapi all have some kind of secondary utility on their spells like stat dropping, reducing movement, horse effectiveness, or ignoring res. It feels like compared to other classes dark mages change a lot from game to game so I'd be curious to see what traits you value more.
No Flayn? She's like the most obvious dancer!
Dorothea is the most obvious dancer and the only one I think with her monastery outfit in the dancer class.
Xane is too busy being the generic boss in FE4 to be in S tier.
23:40 something to consider is that in PoR the bird tribe Laguz don’t get canto, so if you’re using the hawks they’d like it. Beast tribe Laguz also get high mov when transformed but no canto.
Tiering dancers will be a toughie! They're ALL useful, so you have to look for technicalities to start separating them.
Still can't believe Shigure isn't a songster. He even sings the same darn song as Azuza!
I feel like this Tier List really suffers as a Tier List from leaning too into placing the dancers in tiers close to how they'd tier over all rather than relative to each other and thus stretched out more. Visually it doesn't make clear the sense of quality of difference I feel like these units have based on some of my own impressions/experience of them, what with being all clumped into S tier, but there's definitely enough of that you could put someone like Olivia in something like C or D while stressing that thats only relative to other dancers impact on their respective games not ranking her as a unit comparatively to the other units in *that* game and just a tail end of a comparitive list.
These different methodologies tend to like, overlap enough in outcome that in the other tier lists this didn't seem apparent or a flaw, the best Lords and Wyvern riders are gonna be solid units in their respective games for example, but the Archer/Sniper lists felt a bit like this but not as badly while it jumps out particularly hard here.
All in all a really great series so far and pretty informative in the details just this just jumped out enough at me to comment about it cos it I guess TLDR; visually comes off contradicting the depth of the analysis on the actual differences in unit performance.
I don't really enjoy using dancers but even I have to say FE4 dancers are so obviously broken and fun that I just use them as much as possible. Honestly if dancers in the other games danced 4 units at once I would use them all the time
On FE7's dancer rings: Filla's Might is way, way stronger than Ninis's Grace. FE7's enemies are weak enough that good units can juggernaut an EP easily if they've gotten good EXP investment. They can usually dodge half the attacks and survive the other half. Filla's Might is helpful against FE7's ridiculously bulky bosses, assuming that you don't rig crits. Dancing is better than either 98% of the time, but a situation in which you'd use Filla's Might is where you need extra power but can't make use of the extra movement. Chapter 23x is the only time where I use Filla's Might in my upcoming 0% LTC, for this reason.
Playstyle factors heavily into rating some of these units. There's an argument for FE11 Xane to legitimately be D tier or worse because of warpskipping. He can't do anything before the map is over, and there's no reason to slow down unless you recruit everyone or purposefully limit Warp use. Even if you recruit everyone, you only slow down enough to use him in like, 1 map after he joins.
Heron transformation also heavily depends on playstyle. In LTCs, Reyson transforming is almost never a factor, because it's more valuable to dance 1 unit on turn 1 than it is to spend a turn using a Laguz Stone and dance 4 units on turn 2 and after. So if you rate by this playstyle and take into account FE9 Reyson's late join time plus total lack of Warp, he would be among the worst dancers. Incidentally, I think this also shows that dancing 4 units is not as strong as some consider it to be, with regard to rating FE4 dancers. FE4's dancer utility is highly dependent on concurrent use of Rescue. If you don't use Rescue, even a Leg Ring dancer can't catch up to your mounted squad after 1 dance.
I feel like FE12 Phina is too high. It really depends on how much you weigh H3 and H4, because without Warp or rescue / pair up, dancing on a 6 move unit is comparatively weak. In a seize map, you dance Marth once on turn 1 or 2, and then he (and the rest of your dracoknights) move too far for Phina to reach on subsequent turns, so she is left dancing supporting staff users or stragglers for less important stuff.
Phina is definetely S tier as because of how bulky enemies are on Lunatic and L Reverse she allows you to attack with your units again, and you're unlikely to one round enemies the vast majority of time if you aren't rigging crits. She also allows your staff units to uses their staves again which is extremely valuable. She's also the second best candidate to get boots behind Marth on Lunatic. I can see her maybe being A tier if you're LTCing every map in heavely rigged playthroughs, but in Efficency she's definetely S tier.
@@vanjagalovic3621 Phina is definitely S tier; my objection was with her being over everyone but Azura. Aside from maybe Olivia and some FE10 herons, I think all of the dancers are S tier.
To be fair, Xane being D tier in FE11 detracts a bit from FE11 tiering, where if you account for warpskipping the entire game, you end up with just everyone being bad. If you consider his performance in warpless LTC, Xane does have a bit of genuine use in just being a second palla. However, that does involve ignoring the most powerful tool the game gives you, even if that tool somewhat hobbles the difficulty, so I'm not too sure.
@Mekkah Just so you know, Xane doesn't copy max HP in FE3, which drastically reduces his utility.
U can heal him
@@mysmallnoman Max HP, not current. He still has like less than 20 max HP.
Another thing about Azura is Inspiring Song which she gets at level 10. That gives 3 speed, skill and luck to whoever she dances and allows you to hit certain doubling benchmarks, making it kinda like a single target Rally.
Dancers are good in general
Faye with Anew : "I know my dancing skills are useless 😭"
Kinda. Cause she gets it so late at Saint lv 14, by that point you should be either at Duma, post game or in some people's case beaten Thabes. If your ranking her from Thabes alone though you gotta ask yourself, "Is she worth one of your 10 unit spots?" especially considering Titania provides so much more utility. But then again another turn is another turn, especially if it's Alm Kamui or a Whitewing sister.
Breloom pauncher I did cleric Faye with the intent on getting anew as quick as possible and I think I got it in act 4 but I wouldn’t say it’s worth it I put in so much work and resources to do it and still pretty late into the game it was very fun when I got it tho
@@Ethan-nl2wg Yeah if she got it earlier it would be so much better especially cause you get Silque and Titania on Alms route. Dancer Faye is pretty much a post game thing like what's his name in sacred stones.
I love these tier list videos top tier Mekkah content as it were
Alright, time to make my healer a dancer!
FFS MY DANCER IS LINHARDT
Perhaps it's just my play-style or whatever, yet I've mostly used Flayn as my Dancer for three of the routes in Three Houses (the fourth one is obvious). By the time she joins my team, most of my other units already have set Master Classes I want to train them for, so it's normally pointless to raise her as well. Although you can technically grind until everyone is a mini powerhouse, it's a tedious effort I rather avoid. The game is long enough by itself.
Excited to see where Ninian and Nils get! Those two's extra utility let me take down bosses with units with no buisness boss slaying.
Mekkah: I thought this would be easy. Everyone S Tier. But we will be here for a while anyway.
Proceeds putting everyone in S Tier except Xane.
Jokes aside Dancers are just good. The only one I didn't use very often is Olivia since I usually play that game with pair up Units. She can become good in combat as a dancer like everyone else but usually I prefer using Power houses in this game.
I spent a lot of this video thinking everyone was landing 7 displayed hit in that last promise footage before I realised some of the screen was cut off
If I remember correctly, FE9 won't let you put the demi band on Reyson. So you're stuck with transformation gauge unless you use a laguz stone
How dare you not include dancer Raphael or dancer Dimitri. Mekkah is cancelled
I feel like Sylvia is kinda high, especially compared to Leen and Laylea, both of which are better than her IMO. It takes a while before she can do anything significant in Ch. 2, she’ll pretty easily fall behind for a large chunk of Ch. 3, same with Ch. 5. She also never has as good a claim to the leg ring as Laylea/Leen do in Ch. 10 and Final, unless Claude/Adean happens (which likely won’t happen till Ch.5) or Azel/Adean (which is not particularly good). If Claude/Adean happens though, that means that Leen/Laylea have much more utility in Ch. 8/9 than Sylvia ever could. While in that scenario Leen would probably be a good bit better than Laylea (unless Patty can scrape together 6000 gold which she should be able to if inheritance is good), but either way I think Ch 10 and final make Leen and Laylea easily better than Sylvia.
Wouldn’t Faye from echoes count too? She learns the the anew spell which is basically a dance.
She learns that spell very late and it costs alot of hp, anew isn't as good as dance
That assumes you even class her that way and even then that's not her role for most of the game.
i think that olivia is one of the best dancers. she already starts with a lot of speed and skill (both have great growth rates after) and if you get lucky with strength level ups (40%), your olivia can be very op.
1. Skills. Olivia can learn some of the best skills in the game. Special Dance is a fantastic skill for added bonus. Astra is simply op. Galeforce makes it so she can move twice (if she kills). Vantage makes her better in enemy phase. And lethality is amazing.
2. Crits. Combined with a killing edge and olivias high skill stat, she will be crittng a lot, making galeforce easier to initiate if you so wish.
3. Even if you don't get much rng blessed with her strength stat, you can just use awakenings broken pair up mechanics to increase stats and do extra damage.
Although, Olivia is rather frail, so use her sparingly. But once again tonics and a good pair up unit should help a lot. Vantage can also help alot during enemy phase, helping her take less damage (if she crits or astra or lethality initiates) and deal out more.
A few things. I think you forgot Elphin, but i am willing to bet he'd be right next to Lalum. Maybe a little above based on how useful he is during his route.
And with the heron trio, there a few factors you didn't mention. Reyson actually has a base 6 move and a transformed 8 and the highest level of them all, 15, while Leanne has 5 base move and 6 transformed, and is level 5, and Rafiel has 5 move period, and is level 12. This puts Reyson the closest to learning those extra Gladr. Though, to be fair most of those suck, and are generally less worth it to use than just using Vigor by a wide margin. But it's still something they can do. I'd still put them in that order though. Rafiel, then Reyson, then Leanne. Four way dancing is so broken, and Rafiel doesn't need to wait to be able to do it. Good video by the way. It's great.
I usually always give my dancers the movement boosts so they have a better chance to reach more units in case I end up in a spot I NEED a certain unit to move
Don't forget that in fe6 you can buy boots in the shop with a members card, so you could have Larum have 15 move on a dancer, which is pretty insane.
Following Elffin's guidance, Mekkah proceeds to completely forget about Elffin.
I usually try to keep a spear wall between the enemy and my dancer but I'll tell you what, move one unit and an enemy calvary unit will dive behind your line and murder your dancer regardless of whether or not they are gonna die as soon as its player turn again.
Anakin not good at combat?? His magic growth isn't good (I think it's 35%) but with the ridiculous late game light tomes you get he can tear through some of those enemies like paper. I agree with you that you'll primarily want him to dance either way, BUT the added benefit of the combat is that you can throw him near some enemies to dance for someone, and you don't necessarily have to worry about him dying, so he's a little more versatile than the usual frail dancer. Also staves on promotion makes him even more useful as an all around utility unit depending on the needs of the moment.
For FE3H I personally just ended up using Mercedes as a dancer namely as if she wasn't healing then it just made more sense to have her doing something else during those turns.
This was a good video and it made me think about dancers in a different way. I thought you'd put the 4-refresh dancers at the top of S-tier but after listening to the rationale, it makes a lot of sense. When you were talking about reyson in particular, I feel like all of your statements about radiant dawn could be copy-pasted as arguments for lene and sylvia, which is why I think you actually ranked the 4-refresh genealogy dancers too high. The game's not only very enemy-phase oriented, but if you're playing quickly, sylvia and lene will be lagging behind very far, very early on in maps. You could give lene the leg ring but seliph really wants it before his promotion, and even after, having a 12 mov cavalier is like cocaine and personally I just can't justify taking it off him. When you have seliph who can solo hordes of enemies by himself, I really feel like the flexibility of 12 mov is a lot more useful than having a lene with high mov that can potentially get targeted during enemy phase.
Oh also I feel like there's a potentially interesting argument about healing in general being less important in 3h, with abundant healing gambits available for those with low charm or something, meaning the 3h dancers are better, but I'm pretty happy where they are.
@@vishuprathikanti9352 Healing gambits suck, it's best just to train Mercedes and get fortify
Ursula: Tell me...are you afraid to die?"
Me (After activating Ninis' Grace): Nope. :P
I haven't played Three Houses, so the answer to this question may be pretty obvious. But if most of the units can be dancers, is there anything stopping you from having one or two juggernaut units and just a ton of dancers? It doesn't sound like the best thing you could do, but it does sound fun.
No Elffin?
He's 99.6% the same as Larum but I should probably have mentioned him haha.
@@Mekkkah I am so happy and respectful that you conceded there is difference of a value that does not have a 1 or 5 in it.
One other thing about Azura is that because she has proficiency in lances, she can take advantage of using Pegasus flier and gain more healing skill for herself with caneraderie along with her personal skill so that she can keep everyone alive to an extent. At the least her utility as a lance user can keep her alive
If Marianne isn't your main healer, she does dancer well. Sword avoid helps her survivability and she has access to magic swords.
I remember as a kid I never used dancers cause in my child mind if you couldn't fight you couldn't be that useful. Oh how wrong young me was.
Small factor Laura can also promote twice so of you put effeort into her she can get 2 promotion bonus .
I like making Ferdinand a dancer. His personal skill, combined with SwordAvoid+20 gives him +35 avoid while at full HP, which makes him way more flexible for positioning. He can end the turn in the range of multiple enemy attacks, and have a good chance of surviving; especially if he can make use of terrain or adjutants.
Dorathea has a really good spell list, so I'd rather make her a Gremory. Marianne's spell list is lame, but she has Physic, so I wouldn't make her a dancer either.
Flayn is a unit that many people make a dancer, and I think she's a good choice. She has Rescue and Fortify, but doesn't have a good selection of spamable spells, and she joins the class with enough base Charm to win the competition. I've seen other people recommend Felix, which I think is a terrible idea; he has fantastic combat, and I'd rather he get danced so he can ORKO two enemies.
I'd say the best dancers are ones who can survive enemy phase for a bit if needed, since that gives them way better flexibility in where they can go, and what the rest of the army can do. Getting S riding (for Mov+1) takes a very long time, and I'd rather prioritize B swords/lances/axes to boost avoid further, or increase faith rank so the dancer can be a backup healer.
I would mostly agree, but Dancer gives Felix excellent dodgetank abilities as well as letting him make some use of his Reason budding talent.
The practical example for Ninis Grace would be Isadora. Think about it: paladin with good offense, less than desirable defense.
Hi Mekkah
Can someone explain the Marianne exploit he was talking about? And yay for Lara and Azura the two FE games I really like.
S+ and S++ would have being really nice for this tier list xD
I don't remember if it's been covered in another list, but Mid to Late game Paladins/Cavs/Great Knights. I might be wrong, but I think there's enough of them to justify a list of its own.
Let’s see here:
Fe1/shadow dragon arran
Mycen
Roshea (and the rest of the new mystery wolfguard).
Percival
Isadora
Duessel
Renning
And jeritza.
That’s probably enough for a list. Might’ve missed a few though.
@@appelofdoom8211 Xander probably fits in as well.
@@appelofdoom8211 There's quite a few paladins who join the in the mid-late game of FE5 as well: Fred, Glade, Conomoore, Amalda and Dermott would probably all fit into that category.
The power is within you Mekkah
ngl, I always thought(and still think that way) that dancers on tier lists are usually overrated. Don't get me wrong, dancers are amazing and I would put them high enough myself. Top of A tier, end of S tier, mid of S tier depending on the game. And my problem with most of them is availability. Take Niniah for example, she joins at ch 21 and her availability is crazy. Not only does she joins later than Florina, Marcus, Fiora, cavaliers and Raven, but she also is not available for a couple of chapters later on. Or herons from Radiant Dawn who almost have no availability to speak of(almost the same as royals and they are in mid). Or Reyson from FE9(who also has much much lower mov compared to your best units). Sometimes the game is not very favorable for them(I mean, in EP games with a lot of route maps they almost completely useless). Like in FE13, I would say that Olivia is worse than a bunch of units and would honestly put her at the end of A, or even top of B, because your best strategy in that game is to put your combat units at the middle of bunch of enemies and watch them go(even on lunatic), and Olivia contributes a little there, if contributes at all. Of course there are really good dancers, whether it be becuase of their early availability(Azura, Feena, Leen, Leyla), or because of their contribution to the team for their time being(like Laura can dance for 2 staff users, Silvia and FE4 dancers in general can dance for 4 people, or just having a little competition in given game like Larum and Elphin)
Also, Rip Elphin
gonna disagree on Olivia, she's arguably one of the weaker dancers on account of how awakening is designed, but in most cases awakening very much incentivises robin soloing for a lot of the game and Olivia + dark flier robin can easily be used to clear a lot of maps on the first/second turn. I'd reccomend looking at some ltc runs of the game for more details
Ninian joins late, but because she's able to dance and use ring she gain enough overall utility to be considered S tier easely, especially in LTCs
Can xane transform into feena in fe 12/3 and than bardtrain across the map? I never tested this. Is that possible?
I haven't tested it in FE3, but I know it does not work in FE12 (Xane transforms but can't dance).
Units with high speed and good growths are the best dancers imo. Specially if they have alert stance+ as they become crazy dodge tanks with insane utility. The only bad part is that you cannot dance if you want to utilize the dodge tank to it's maximum potential
they're not good dancers by that point really, they're just good units in general. that's just using dancer's additional benefit.
a dancer dances and that itself is extremely powerful.
Also if you enemy phase with a dancer that is an enemy you are not killing
@@gabrielemblem605 Wrong, depending on your dancer, especially if it's a combat dancer like Edelgard/Felix/Ferdinand.
All dancers:we are going to S Tier.
Xane: Sad noises.
So what about the dancers who can do combat? My Azura doubles surprisingly and has a lot of skill. Idk her growth rathes though :/
Azura jas good offensive growths, but she's so frail, starts with an E rank in lances and has such low base strength that she's better off dancing rather than fighting.
She is not a fight but she has a greater strength growth then por ike
Olivia can enable really silly strats like having her in pegasus, galeforce if she's strong enough, or just reclass back to dancer and dance. Not gonna mention multi galeforce dance because thats degenerate farming lol
You did explain it partly on Azura's review. Kinda weird you put her on top and Olivia low...
Welcome to the great Fire Emblem Talent Showed, hosted by Mekkah. There are dancers, singers, performers, and even rare herons, but mostly dancers. You’ll certainly feel moved after this act! If not, then you probably didn’t set up the dance right.
You missed Faye from Echoes. She learns Anew as literally her last skill at Saint lv 14 and the only one too at that, though at that point you should be at the end of the game or post-game, or hell maybe even beaten that. But from post-game alone having Anew is really valuable in Thabes as the game just switches from player phase focused to enemy phase and it helps with making sure the fire dragons and entombed don't last till enemy phase who are capable of one or two shoting any unit who isn't a Baron/Dreadfighter or Alm. She can still provide some offensive capability with Seraphim as well as rescue strats. Faye also doesn't have to worry about keeping up either thanks to most of the Thabes maps being either small or choke-point heavy. Her downside is that she doesn't get invoke like almost every other healer so you can't distract enemies with fodder. The only saint probably more worthy to bring into Thabes is Titania cause she gets fortify, unless you wanna use 2/10 slots for healers. Again she probably won't get the spell during the main meat of the game unless you went outta your way with grinding but she very useful in Thabes and that's where my perspective comes from.
Mekkah: we are gonna be here a while
Me: yay
I wish Leanne and Naesalas ending wasnt dependant on taking leanne to the tower
With those hips, Rhea should be a dancer herself. She could do private morale boosting dances ( if u know what I mean)
“if you know what I mean“ always ruins the joke
@@sonpham3438 what ruins what is subjective.
Captain Poop it‘s like saying a lame pun and appending “ha, get it?“. It‘s just pointless
I know, I'm not a patreon and I'm consuming free content. But I can still give a suggestion. So my suggestion is a fighter bro tier list (for Tellius games, Hawk bros). I know there aren't many of them and most of them are bad. But still fun to watch a video where no one is higher than C rank. (except for the hawk bros)
Oh don't worry, there will be a fighter bro tier list eventually, and there's at least one who's above C rank.
@@Mekkkah Does this exclude Charlotte and Hilda?
Ferdinand von Aegir is a great dancer because of the sword avo that stacks with his unique skill, his high charm, and his authority and sword strengths.
Two more things I like to add, mainly because your lack of experience with DLC:
Fates does gives for free some DLC items that make Azura utterly ridiculous: one, Boots since it would give her 6 move as early as you get her, and second, the Witch's Mark, allowing her to reclass as a Witch. If you do this when she's level 31 Songstress, since it's the easiest way thanks to her low magic, you can level her up to 35 and give her Warp. And, as Heroes has demonstrated, a Warping Dancer is completely busted, especially since there's no HP requirement to warp. You just warp her next to anyone and dance for them. Super crazy.
Another one I want to talk about is Yuri from Three Houses. While he also makes for a pretty good Dancer himself, his Hero's Relic, the Fetters of Dromi is a March Ring + Canto + Aegis and Pasive for himself. I would need to check if the recoil of using it only pops after battle, because if it doesn't, it could make any person you choose to make a Dancer pretty busted, even without NG+.
If you are going to consider what they can do besides dancing the 3H girls should be very near the top id think. Also ingrid has been good for me as a unit in all 5 runs I've used her in thus far
NGL, I'm really enjoying that Pokémon gen 4 background music
A small detail but Lene should be ahead of her mother. Lene can potentially start off with the items she needs thanks to inheritance, so you don’t have to go out of your way to get them. Lene can also have an offense-oriented dad like Chulainn, Lex, and Lewyn (for the convo and wind sword shenanigans) to fight more effectively in the arena if she needs the money for something.
Arden: Am I a joke to you?
Avoid tank dancer is just too fun; especially when you put them in a choke point with a wo dao+ and watch them rack up kills. Petra is one of my favourite 3H dancers.,
Funny, I got a ad with song in it.