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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 เม.ย. 2020
- Fire Emblem has had many of these bulky, powerful mercenaries ever since the first game, but which ones are the best?
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One mini-series with potential could be the best and worst map in each game. Then you could rank all the best ones against each other and all the worst ones against each other, and we'd all learn some things about map design.
Man, I've always wanted a desert map teir list!
So down for this. Ch7 and Ch11A could simultaneously be the best and worst maps in FE6 depending on your perspective.
@@MrCactuar13 Those can't be the worst maps when Ch14 exists.
@@sen5857 Personally never had too much issue with that chapter. The start can be a bit harsh dealing with the wyverns on the east side but otherwise the enemy density isn't too bad until the very end when your non-fliers and mages can walk on land like normal anyway.
Bo Luan great idea tbh
“i saw mangs use him in iron man until he died.” you could say that for every character.
You made yourself a powerful enemy by not putting Sex God Gerik in A or even S-tier where he belongs, Mekkah.
Mekkah doesn't like him because he's too much like Nino.
✓ Green hair and purple clothes
✓ Goody-goody that all the other good guy characters love
✓ Cheerful and sweet (as much as a battle-scarred mercenary can be while still maintaining credibility as a masculine figure)
✓ Precociously talented
✓ Tragic backstory
@@Firguy I can't believe someone would compare SEX GOD GERIK to Disney Princess Nino. I'm cryin and shakeing RN
Never thought I'd see Mekkkah make two videos about Heroes in one week
I personally love Heroes, they look so awesome and I like their shields too.
Typically they also have pretty good combat stats and access to hand axes, so not only do they look cool, they're also pretty useful.
“I personally love Heroes”
*Sad Fergus Noises*
Ike is the only Ogma that’s a main character
What about Byleth?
@@kaelanmcalpine2011 byleth is the pope who helps the main lord get what they need so he's actually a Palmarch archetype
Vera Vera Veradisia
No he’s a teacher who has access to magic and is older than most of the cast, so he’s a Wendell
@@xuanathan But Hanneman was already at the school.
I honestly get that vibe with Ike. As much as he is the story viewpoint, the OG lord is actually Elincia, and it fits like that.
Dieck was hired by Eliwood to help Roy.
Shanna was in Dieck's mercenary troupe.
Shanna is an Ogma.
Shanna is a boy
Mind blown
Oh shiiiii-
I knew shanna was a trap!
Don't be ridiculous. Shanna is the youngest member of the Pegasus sister trio. Shanna is an Est.
@@misterbadguy7325 Can't be a sister if you're a boy
“Mangs is a big Dieck fan.” -Mekkah
"No homo" - Mangs
Staring an Awakening Lunatic run a few days ago, Gregor is hired at the end of the chapter that you get him. He even jokes about how he's trustworthy even after betraying his last employer, who was the boss of the map.
That's the Nowi chapter right? I forget how they're connected.
@@l.n.3372 Yep. He helps free her.
Okay, that thumbnail is EPIC. Thank you Mekkah, very cool - big peepee
Is it the Dawn Brigade??
No.. just a couple of *Buff* *Bois*
(also rip tellius)
“He’s an unmounted unit in FE4” is literally all you had to say rofl
You should play TRS! It has characters that fit all of the major archetypes and will give you more units to talk about. There are units similar to Ogma and Caesar, for example.
The only change that I would make is switching FE11 and FE12 Ogma. FE11 Ogma is similar to Deke in utility while FE12 Ogma is pretty unremarkable beyond prologue contributions. Based on what I've heard about Gregor, he seems more like a C tier unit too.
dondon151, you seem to really like TRS based on the times I've seen you recommend it. What did you like most about the game?
dondon151 I don’t know about Ogmas in TRS, pretty much everyone joins because they support your cause. There’s many good sword users though. Attrom I guess would be a Caesar.
@maltheopia I can’t speak for dondon, but something I find cool about TRS is that it feels like a mix of all of Kaga’s previous FE games: there’s move growths like in FE5 (most units don’t have one, a couple have a 10% growth), AS can be negative like in FE4, there’s an overworld map like in Gaiden, you can grind in Holmes’s route like in Gaiden, it has WLvl instead of weapon ranks like FE1/3, characters have two inventories, one for items and one for weapons like in FE3, it has skills like FE4/5... it feels like playing all of those games at once. I also really like its approach to character interactions way more than the support system. Think of something like Vestaria Saga, TRS is similar in that regard. And it also has the lowest growths overall of any Kaga game at that point after Gaiden, so you rely a bit more on bases and promo bonuses which is always cool, the games focus way too much on growths nowadays.
@@vicho4226 I do like a lot of the cool features of TRS, but I hesitate at that game because there's so many busted things in that game. Granted, a lot of the busted things in the game are fun and don't require you to slow down but I can see why people would be annoyed at TRS from a balance perspective. I have never played a Fire Emblem game where the gap between 'excellent unit' and 'good unit' is so monstrously huge.
maltheopia meh, balance is overrated as a concept anyways. And also the game has units like Raquel and the mages that are pretty well balanced all things considereded. If this was FE7, training Sun would not be worth it. They put flurry, a mega broken skill, on units like Alicia (4 move, frail), Barts (axe user with mediocre skill and lower Skl and Wlvl than Samson), Rennie (who is very fun to use IMO, but Est archer is Est archer) and Sun (requires time to catch up). I think it’s way more fun as a game than many of the FEs released since then. Intelligent Systems also sucks at balancing. Paladins having full WT control in 6/7 is disgusting in retrospective.
@@vicho4226 I normally don't stress out too much about balance (FE5 and FE11 are some of my favorites because of how badly you can break those games) but TRS just takes it way too far. If we could include TRS to have the five most powerful FE characters of all time, Raffin, Sierra, and Martel would occupy three of those five slots, sandwiched between Robin and Sigurd. It's disgusting. Raffin is literally 'Seth, but better'.
Mekkah i thought you hated fire emblem heroes
This isn't a tier list about which characters probably have the best abs.
Disliked and unsubbed.
understandable. have a nice day.
Linus and Hawkeye are S tier, everyone else is B at best by comparison.
@@sielklavar Bruh? Rinkah? Bad game, mediocre character, S+ abs.
@@navadax4541 you got me there, I tend to block Fates from my memory in general. Rinkah is also with them in S
@@sielklavar Don't forget about like every Knight in the series. Walking around in that giant suit of armor has to build up some impressive muscles.
The character I'd argue is the most Ogma-esk in Path of Radiance is honestly Mia, being hired by Greil to help fill out the mercenary troops ranks
I respectfully disagree. Sure she fits the Ogma lore-wise, she plays like a standard myrmidon. Yes, there's no mercenaries in those games, but her playstyle is stock myrmidon (i.e. low str low def). Where as Ogmas are more all arounders.
And Zihark is kind of an Ogma for the Dawn Brigade in Radiant Dawn.
Considering that Ike is a mercenary with good all-around stats hired by a princess, I think he fits the bill
@@ikefromsmashbros9237 actually Greil was hired by the princess, if anything by that argument Ike is the Barst, but with a sword.
@@sielklavar That's true. The monetary responsibilities passed down to Ike once he took command, but I guess Greil was hired first.
"Mangs is a big Disck's fan" so much information for my ears
Yeah Gregor was hired. Doesn't Ogma join due to an obligation to Shiida?
ogma is basically caeda´s bodyguard.
Isn't Ogma hired by the King of Talys? At least I'm pretty sure he is in Mystery of the Emblem, and the best explaination besides that in Shawod Dragon/book 1 is the one we get in the anime, so...
I only played a translation mod of the NES game but he's a mercenary hired to accompany Marth.
Ogma is a mercenary whose contract is always renewed with Talys.
Can't wait for the definitive all characters tier list!
You mention how Deke can only use iron axes since he has E rank when he promotes, but GBA games are weird where steel axes are also E rank for no reason
This doesnt change anything but I thought Id bring it up
Does anyone actually use steel axes?
@@bens5093 I mean, Deke isn't the worst user of a steel axe.
hand axes are also E i believe so that's a big up
Echidna is the worst unit to wield Steel Axes and Steel Axes is garbage in FE6 as a whole.
But the thing with Echidna is that she starts at B tier in Axes, Deke has to start all the way from E.
Takanashi Echidna I would argue, if you plan to use her long term. Is one of the best contenders for the Body Ring. Her Con is in such a weird place, and because of this two things happen. Her attack speed with Steel Axes and Blades goes up to the point where she can now double enemy Wyvern Riders on hard mode. And in conjunction, she doesn’t become too heavy for Paladins and fliers to rescue. I only wished I realized that sooner than I did. Because I didn’t think to use the Body Ring until I reached Sacae.
Commenting before fully watching, if FE1/3 Ogma isn't in A tier I will be very sad.
Very satisfied, Ogma is ridiculously good in FE1.
You don't need to be very strong to be good in FE1, and Ogma is one of the only characters who not only starts at the "very strong" border but shows up really early. His only flaw is that, while he doesn't strictly need levels, it's still really annoying when he gets nothing but HP and Weapon Level five times in a row.
The Last Promise originally started off as a hack called "Tactics Universe" and was made by users of the first iteration of the Fire Emblem Universe website. So I believe Shuuda has the same user name as the character in TLP as a carry over from when it was still Tactics Universe because Shuuda was the one who desired to be that character in the old forum hack. Siegfried is supposed to be Arch and Kelik Blazer IIRC, hence why Siegfried uses an old "Arch self portrait" mug as other examples. There's quite a lot of drama about the whole change...
Though I agree there's no real difference between them and would say they both likely belong in S, Saber and Kamui are usually a tier apart because Saber has more chances to level up faster than Kamui and his higher defense/res makes him a better investment. As you get closer and closer to LTC territory and remove grinding, while you can use Kamui instead of Saber, there's no reason to dump the EXP into him when you're better off investing in Saber who will level faster and thus promote sooner.
And though I wouldn't change his position either, I'd say Gregor is better than quite a few of the characters that join before him, but there's something about him that just doesn't make him seem good when you try to use him. I think most people just use him as a pair-up bot for Nowi, who is a better unit due to 1-2 range and second seal shenanigans once she reaches level 30 where you can just make her a level 1 manakete again with an insane exp curve.
I remember when this hack first started! Ah, the Fire Emblem Universe days :)
Gregor has surprisingly solid stats but he’ll only have swords for a bit unless you insta-promite which sucks a bit, and he joins right around the point that whichever earlygame units you were investing into are finally starting to become juggernauts.
Plus most importantly he’s not a cute girl.
How about doing a tier list with prepromotes that join in like the first half of the game, or like the second to third prepromote. I don't really know how to explain it very well so I'll give some examples:
Wendell
Isadora
Jerrot
Stephan
Devdan
Sirius
Quan
Shanan
Ced
Leo
And yes this is just an exuse to have a tier list with Devdan in it
I’m pretty sure Mekkah said that he doesn’t actually like Devdan in a video a couple years ago. I don’t remember the name of the video but I’m pretty sure he said that he likes Danved due to his ‘chill’ nature or something like that.
@@ktf4002 I know Mekkah doesn't like selfinserts so it would make sense that he doesn't like Devdan that much
Scarlett and/or Reina should count for Birthright. They join at relatively decent chapters and aren't overly broken like Ryoma.
Sensei well duh he likes danved
Posted right when a Mangs stream started, nice timing.
Saber and Kamui are pretty good in FE2 (haven’t played Echoes to know). For starters, both use swords, which is great because they get access to the Bolt sword for 1-2 range and damage calculated by 15 minus enemy Res (times two probably because their base speed and promo bonuses are good), as well as the great Holy sword, which, not only has effective damage against monsters (which infest Celica’s route more so than Alm’s), but above all, is *very* accurate in a game in which accuracy is in very high demand due to 1 RN, unusually high terrain bonuses (including the very common floor tiles) and magic not being able to increase it’s own accuracy. Once they promote into Myrmidons they get 5 move, allowing them to outpace all the 4 move people in the army and get even better once they become Dread Fighters: 18 base speed (I think it’s 18, at least) doubles just about everything you go up against and 15 Res on top of their base Res allows them to reliably go up against the many wizards in that route.
*Unfortunately* they don’t look as good as their Echoes redesigns, so F tier.
Dread fighters in Echoes get a permanent +5 in res on top of Apotroph, which halves magic damage taken. Honestly, unless you really want to turtle and think really hard, Echoes lategame is just throwing your dread fighters and maybe archers at everything and it'll probably work.
@@fakesmile172
Throw falcon knight at everything in Echoes tbh. Dread fighter, bow knight, and falcon knight the game.
Even gold knights aren't as broken.
@@fakesmile172 I thought that SoV LTCs were mostly the Pala and Catria show on Celica's route?
@@vanjagalovic3621
I don't know anything about LTCs, I was going off personal experience.
The only flaw I would say that Gaiden Saber and Kamui had was durability and damage. They can’t hurt dragons or Barons without the lightning sword, and I’m pretty sure there’s only one on Alm’s route. Palla, Catria, and Est seemed to replace them as high Mov strong units, as you can promote them faster and they’ll have better damage and utility for the rest of the game.
*Places Gerik in B tier*
Faerghast: So, you have chosen death
He pronounced epitome correctly! Mekkah must’ve gained a point in Speaking
And then he pronounced Valkyrie wrong. Guess you can never have it all
I feel like if you have fergus on this list u should also have beowulf too.
gets addressed in the vid i think. i'll make another video later with all the pay2recruit guys in it.
@@Mekkkahoh. i just skipped to the end like everyone else.
Gregor is a sell sword with a swell sword
Also in Valentia Saber joins earlier and with 2 more speed than Kamui, where their bases are the difference between doubling a 9 speed unit or being doubled by a 9 speed unit. Early join also means saber can start working on combat arts to make up their strength difference. They're both good and promotion largely evens them out, but there's definitely advantages to Saber over Kamui in a tier list setting.
Aka: sexiest men in fire emblem tier list.
I don't know what Raven is doing there, but WitchBolt speaks facts.
I read this as “sexist men in Fire Emblem” at first and was very confused
Everyone always underestimates Raven. He's way stronger then you give him credit for. His stats are through the roof for his level and he's more then comfortable promoting at level 10. You can also promote him in the level you get him in with the hero crest or much more likely in Canas' level.
I feel like the reason people understimate Raven is purely because people wait to promote him which is a pitfall. He's right up there with Canas as one of the best candidates for early promotion in the game.
Extremely late reply but raven is objectively the best hero because he has a different sprite
What the frick Mekkkah, I thought you were done making videos about Heroes
For the record, Deke's constitution is not really a big problem for rescuing him. The only promoted mounted units who can't rescue promoted Deke are Milady, Juno, Noah and Perceval. He has 14 constitution and the other Paladins all have 11 Con, which is 14 Aid. Promoted Shanna has 15 Aid, promoted Thea has 14, Sue is the same as Thea, Zeiss has 11 Con for 14 Aid as well, Shin has tons of Aid, Dayan has 16, Cecilia and promoted Clarine both have 14. Deke is exactly as heavy as he can be without it being a serious problem. Losing out on Milady and Perceval rescuing him is a bit sad, but in general you prefer to have those two fighting to rescuing when possible so it's more a minor drawback than a crippling flaw. If he had even one more point of constitution, THEN it would be a big problem.
I feel like Catherine should be on here too, since 3H doesn't have that ogma archetype but Catherine does fit your description of an "ogma". Of course access to flying classes would put her in S+++ but I digress
3H is weird but I agree Catherine is manly enough to be an Ogma
I agree mostly but I think she joins much later than most of them (except maybe Gerikk in Epharim route)
Dani Doyle She actually joins really early, like CH.3 I think. But she isn’t available on CF and you get her during timeskip in SS
@@prismatic8333 correct me if I'm wrong but her join time depends on byleths level right? So unless you solo with byketh (or grind in normal mode) she'll be later than her earliest available chapter in most cases.
I think it's level 20 with no support but I'm not sure
26:57 actually, Deke is still perfectly able to be rescued by most promoted Paladins even when promoted. Hero Deke has 14 con, just one less weight than the steel axe, while most paladins (barring promoted Noah and Percival) have 11 con, putting their aid at 25-11=14 con, exactly enough to pick him up, and it's the same case with every Pegasus Knight who isn't Juno, as Shanna has at most 20-5=15 aid and promoted Thea has 20-6=14. So Deke is actually fine in terms of being carried around, in fact I'd say his con is perfect, he's able to rescue almost everyone and rescuing him is easy with a mounted unit.
he also can be rescued by nomad troopers (bar the silver wolf) if im not wrong
Thanks Makkah your tier list keep me going
I think you're overhating on FE6 axes a little bit. They're awful to be locked into, of course, but quite nice to have as a sidearm. There's a fair bit of lance-heavy maps in the game, especially towards the end, and a hand axe is as accurate, but one point stronger than a steel sword against those. A silver sword is obviously stronger than an iron axe (only by three points tho), but if you don't need that to get a KO, the iron axe is 10 points more accurate you get the +20 Avoid / +2 Def from reverting the weapon triangle. Situational, sure, but that's why I say they're good as a *sidearm* ;)
But otherwise, I agree with your points about Deke, although I think his earlygame utility might still be enough for A tier. But unless you give him the first hero crest, he falls behind (literally and figuratively) over the course of the midgame. And even if you do promote him first, his stats aren't *that* amazing later in the game.
e: OK, I guess my tier "definitions" are just a little different than yours if you're putting Raven in B as well. ;)
Oh yeah, I like that Dieck has the option to use them. I just think that compared to FE7/FE8/DSFE they are much less significant as an addition to swords.
@@Mekkkah That's fair, yeah. Definitely much less of a deal for Deke than for Raven and Gerik.
I think Jesse from echoes should also be on this tier list.
He's more of an Est than anything else, if you need him to be an archetype. He joins way too late and too underleveled to draw too strong a comparison to Ogma
@@ikefromsmashbros9237 he still has them abs tho
So are the "second" mercenaries you get like Oujay or Caesar another archetype?
If anything them and Samto should belong in their own “Knockoff Archetype” tier list.
Looking foreward to that lord tier list
Do a tier list of the non-Cain and Abel cavaliers. Cecile, Clive, Finn, Noah, Treck, Lowen, Franz, Makalov, Fiona, Silas, Ferdinand, Sylvain. Basically, any early game cavalier who aren't part of Cain and Abel duo.
I know it might be considered kind of a boring list but I'm curious how you would do an early game cleric list (wrys archetype?) like aideen, lana, Serra, moulder, Ellen, lisa, etc.
That's definitely one I'm doing. Gonna be interesting to talk about something that isn't combat most of the time.
@@Mekkkah Kinda predictable, too. I imagine Safy'll be way up there, considering how comparatively early she can get Warp.
@@HollowGolem Yeah, I'm guessing there will be a big divide between early staff users in games with infinite range warp and games without (with maybe FE6 warpers breaking into the infinite range group). Safy and Lena I'm guessing will both be at the top, Safy has Hammerne on top of Warp, and access to the really good Thracia sleep staves, and Lena has infinite range warp in a game where almost every chapter is Seize (and effective boss killers in Fe11).
@@Sidnv Exception will obvious be FE4, where Warp is nice and all, but... not quite the same.
@@HollowGolem Right, that game warp is not really that useful outside a ranked run perspective.
Can't wait for the avatar tier list
I’d love to see a early fighter tier list next.
That's not a great idea. Mekkah might mix up Bord and Cord and everyone would make fun of him.
What's there to say? All of them struggle to crack C-tier except for Orsin, Nolan, and Barst. Maybe Boyd and Arthur if I'm feeling generous.
the mercenary in por and rd was ike, he also dual purposed as the lord
The funny thing abt Raven is that he might even reach A rank axes before harken joims you if you promote him early and spam steel axes on him, the devil axe could be used but the backfire chance is fairly high.
As for fe 11 ogma, I think he's an interesting unit, 12 speed is pretty high at that point and 16 is the benchmark speed for most of the game after which you probably warpskip or one shot with effective weapons, ogma is one rank away from being able to wield silver swords and heroes essentially give you two speed on promo gains so you either need two speed procs or a speedwing to reach doubling thresholds , not that you promote him first but still only caeda has probably more speed than ogma for atleast one third of the game assuming you don't reclass anyone else into a fast unit while the silver sword is an expensive weapon, Ogma should reliably kill almost any enemy he doubles with, FE 11 enemies kinda stagnate at midgame. He is ok I guess.
Mekkah I don’t know if this has been requested before, but you should do a tier list of a game and rate all the characters. Maybe start with FE1?
Gregor's rating is very fair. Playing through Awakening Hard Classic mode alot back in the day (since Lunatic just wasn't my thing untill later on) he's pretty much the single most serviceable unit in the game. He never stands out too much, he never has too many peaks, he's so overshadowed by units like Robin, Chrom, Lon'qu, Frederick, the usual suspects, but at the same time, he has a good join for what he offers, he never really falls behind much, and his promotion options are nice enough for him to work with as well. He hits decently hard, he's not too slow, he can take a few hits, the works. He's reliable, but never incredible, just a pretty safe option to slap on a team if you feel like having a merc (they do come with armsthrift which has a random luck stat chance to save a weapon use which saves you some money down the line) and he makes a really good parent to child units who want alot of strength.
Being a low B Tier or high C tier is honestly fair. Gregor isn't bad, but he isn't great either. But sometimes that's all you need to get by.
Mekkkah u should def do a tier list of the Axe Bros in FE's (Bord & Cord, Ross and Garcia, Halvan and Orsin etc)
13:20 To be fair every time I played FE15 so far, even though I try to use a few more units it always ends up (almost) just being the Saber+Pegasus Girls show...
In my current FE6 hard mode game, I missed all the early Hero crests so I'm still using capped unpromoted Rutger and Dieck halfway through the game. Since my team sucks I had to rely on them so much for tanking, especially after Zealot died.
RIP Selena and Laslow
The Alois crickets at the end. LOL
nice, dread fighter op
also for gregor i agree but i think it's like gerik where you want to instant promote him (you get master seal from the village in his chapter) and probably train axe rank so he can get to good 1-2 range for valm? idk though i would rather just spam nosferatu or use the master seal on someone else
About Saber and Kamui: basically all the dreadfighters are the same unit, they differ just a bit in stats but that doesn't bring any notable difference; the reason why Saber is generally tiered higher is simply because you got him some maps earlier and he is higher lever than Kamui, being closer to promotion and snowballing from there.
It's the same reason why Palla is tiered higher than Catria
Do one on mid-to-late game snipers so you can tier Louise
The others would be Jeorge, maybe Tomas, Brigid, Klein and/or Igrene, Innes, PoR Shinon, RD Shinon, Shura if you aren't too strict on class (Adventurer is basically Nohrian Sniper), and Shamir.
Adventurer is actually Fates counterpart to the Awakening trickster. They use bow staff instead of sword staff. Outlaw is the bow wielding thief too.
Would you rate Deke higher if FE6 wasn't so stingy with promotion items?
In FE8 0% growths (Eirika route at least) I didn't promote Gerik right away, but he's still one of my best units. My problem is that since he's good at base, I'm saving the hero crests for Garcia and Joshua. I'm not sure which is better in 0% growths though.
Gerik is much better in 0% growths because of his bases, promote him as soon as you can
I wouldn't recommend promoting Garcia at all in 0% growths, and if you are choosing between Joshua and Gerik, you should pick Gerik. 0% growths is about making your good units as good as possible, not trying to compensate for your weaker units.
Was my Kamui just completely screwed by rng? Because he literally didn't get any stats and always had to get that massive boost through the class changes. But even then he stayed aggressively average and more often than not was a hindrance on the field.
I'd say Gregor is in a pretty good position for Hard Mode, on Lunatic I would put him a bit lower. His base level is 10 so he can immediately promote and you get your first confirmed Master Seal in his join chapter and both of his promotion options are good. I tend to go for Bow Knight since he gets a mount and Hero doesn't give immediate access to Hand Axe.
Also, because he has C rank swords, he can use a Killing Edge which you also get in his join chapter. After being promoted, he can use a speed tonic and double and ORKO most enemy types for a while without needing a good pair up.
For a while, he is mainly facing axe wielding enemies, so primarily using swords is fine, but Chapter 12 and onwards is where tons of lance wielding enemies show up which will hurt him. Going Hero and training axe rank can work, but he starts with E rank which sucks. Overall, he's a decent unit, but not outstanding.
I wish we had Ulster. To honor his memory after the FE4 Iron Man
25:03 "a lot of people really like dieck and I can't blame them for it" 😏
Would Ares in gen2 be considered Mercenary archetype as well?
awesome, i've been waiting for this one!
also raven has a speed cap of 26 which can double every valk in cog of destiny except for two that has 23, so chicken mate mekkkah. LOL. i'm just kidding great vid.
L'Arachel into mage knight or valkyrie? About the FE8 path promotions. Think it's equal-ish for her too?
Three year late reply but:
Mage Knight’s better for sure. They’re almost identical but valk gets 1 additional res (who cares) and D light, while Mage Knight gets C anima. So not only higher weapon rank, but also in a better weapon type.
The reasons to use valk are Ivaldi, but that takes a lot of rank grinding, and her sprite is nicer and more in-character in that class 😅
how do you do this cause I kinda want to do this my self
To correct Mekkah, Gregor's skills aren't garbing gold out of thin air (that's a Barbarian skill, which he can change into, though I don't think that's what he meant), but Armsthrift (not using a weapon use which is neat, but nothing great) and Patience (gives +10 hit/avoid when attacked, which is useful). Nothing big, but just wanted to point that out.
Shura probably would’ve fit from Fates.
I wouldn’t really know cause I always recruited the Boots.
Mekkah, I know you're not as into Awakening - and neither am I; it's one of my least played Fire Emblems, but I've still spent 1,000~2,000 hours on it (I checked the hours spent on files).
Gregor's skill is _much_ better than Despoil; he has the Merc skill, Armsthrift, which is actually insane. It has a Luck * 2 % chance of not consuming a weapon use. That skill is so valuable that it's actually worth reclassing people into Merc for. Plus, his base branch of promotion (Ranger vs Hero) is pretty good either way; he can make good bait as Ranger but I find that Heroes, with Sol, are fairly good to tank with.
In Awakening, Hero gets: Sol (Lv 5) AxeBreaker (50% dodge to axes. Lv 15) and Ranger gets: Rally Skill (3 range I think? Haven't played Awakening in two or three years) and BowBreaker (50% dodge to bows), so Mercs are fairly useful either way.
As for some of the other units listed, I think you've put Dieck too highly. Raven and Gerik both are viable from the get-go and useful til the endgame; depending on how you want to classify FE7, you could say Raven starts near the early game or in the midgame, I suppose.
I am not someone who thinks all units needs to be useful from the start of the game to the end; for instance, I think Oswin in FE7 is a good case for this. However, I would say that it does play an important part in how we judge characters. I will admit that the early game to FE6 is very brutal compared to its midgame but I think Dieck really falls off hard.
Ironically, as a Dieck fan and constant user of him, I find that he is not as good as I hope for, no matter what. It's funny because I almost always promote him instead of Rutger just out of personal bias, but I find that his speed becomes an issue almost right away. His base stat of 10 will be fine but even by chapter four or five it's a bit noticeable that he can't do nearly as much as you would like; and his promotion cost is too heavy because you take away from promoting a boss-killer.
You get a Hero Crest in Chapter 7; let's assess which characters we get around then that would compete for that promotion item. Lot, Wade, Dieck, Rutger, Fir, Oujay. Of them all, I would say that, honestly, only Dieck and Rutger warrant the priority. Dieck does way less, even with 1-2 range, than Rutger does as you often talk about; and that's while consuming a lot of the same resources you want your units to have. But that's just what I thought about at first. The next bit of these thoughts might be more controversial, as I suppose it's not really playing optimally.
Even though I think Oujay and Fir are worse than Dieck, I actually think this is a weird case of growths over bases because if you _want_ to play a bit slower on Fir's chapter or if you're just not as good or fast, you will definitely fight pirate reinforcements and thus you can train a sword unit.
I don't want to make a case for grinding here, really, but I think it's actually very easy to set up kills for either Fir or Oujay in the Isles and they [probably] have more end-game value than Dieck. I don't think they are necessarily better, but I believe they can slot in nearly as well as Dieck after the early-game portion.
That doesn't hold true with either of the other two GBA Mercs, imo.
Raven's combat, at that point, is nearly uncontested because of his HHM bonuses. Like you said, his level:stats ratios are bonkers.
Raven: Lv 5, 29 HP, 10 STR, 13 SKL, 15 SPD. 8 Con
He is very easy to rescue-drop and loses almost no speed to his steel sword; we also know that though he does drop a little, FE7 enemies are fairly slow, all things considered. There aren't many units who can slot in to fill his combat void, especially since you can get him to Hero really fast because his level is so much lower than a lot of the enemies he fights (if you choose to do the Canas gaiden, a fair number of the enemy units are higher leveled, which makes his EXP gain even better).
Plus, there isn't really competition for Raven's promotion item. The only other people that can consume a Hero Crest are Guy, Dorcas, and Bartre. While Dorcas is one of my favorite units and I actually use him more than Raven, I could never argue that Raven isn't insanely ahead of his peers for a Hero Crest and peers in general.
But what's great about his insane base stats is that early promotion really suits Raven; anywhere from 10-15 is more than suitable on any difficulty. His base HP is so high that he should have ~33 (average) +4 (37) as a level 1 Hero (*Assuming earliest promotion at level 10), which is, for the most part, just beefy enough to cover his lackluster tankiness. He would have an average of 17 Skill and 19 Speed (*again, level 10 promotion assumed), both of which help to cover the hit and weight of axes.
Gerik is even more so suited for early promotion, like you mentioned. In a way, saving his promotion for levels is kind of trolling a run, as his growths aren't _bad_ but they aren't 'good,' especially not relative to FE8 standards. You kind of put Gerik's pros and cons forward: Hero, great combat but foot mobility and Gerik in particular is a chunky Hero (can't really be Rescue-dropped very easily). However, his combat is so good, this is [probably] the better option for him. Ranger gets Canto and ability to Rescue-Drop as well as be decent bait. Gerik's innate tankiness and bulk make him fairly good for diverting attention as either Hero or Ranger, tbh, and that's, again, something that cannot be said for Dieck after just the first chapter or two that you have him.
At the point that you get both Raven and Gerik, I think that they enter as some of the premier units to join your army and you are given an incentive to use them compared to the other units you've gotten so far or about to get.
Dieck is definitely good when first used and _can_ hold up for the entire game, but I find that without the use of statboosters, he fails to do so on Hard Mode. Not an excessive amount, just one or two; but that alone already makes him seem worse than the other two GBA Mercs and thus, imo, he deserves to be one tier lower.
I think he's a decent enough unit, but with a lack of good Speed and no overwhelming Strength, he really starts falling off, especially considering the pace of FE6 (large maps, overwhelming amount of mounted units).
I think Mekkah also looks at all the units relative to others you have at the same time. In FE6 you mostly have scrubs by that point and Dieck and Marcus are the only really strong members you have by that point. In FE7 and 8 enemies are weaker and Marcus and Seth are pretty ridiculous in those games as they really have 0 flaws overall, also in FE7 if you play Lyn mode you can have a promoted Sain or Kent, even without Lyn mode your army has gotten quite a few levels and are pretty good by that point. This is even more apparent in FE8 where someone like Franz has acces to 8 move + 1-2 range, unlike Gerik who needs to choose between the two. I still agree that Raven and Gerik are better than Dieck
@@vanjagalovic3621 Sex God Gerik as a ranger gets better if you use him with other fast units, since you can trade-swap his weapons as need be. And having a fast, bulky unit that can pull enemies is always a plus. That said, there aren't a lot of good axe users in FE8 (Ross, Garcia, and Dozla always end up disappointing me) aside from Duessel so Hero Gerik is your only real option for an ax-user.
@@maltheopia You don't really need axes in FE8, most of the enemies are pretty weak and you'll have good hit even with weapon triangle disadvantage, I do know that Gerik can contribute in faster playthroughs, but he's not really anything amazing in an efficiency or LTC run
@@vanjagalovic3621 I probably overrate Garm TBH, because it lets Duessel/Gerik pwn THOSE FREAKING GARGOLES with minimal investment.
@@vanjagalovic3621 yeah
Diek carries the early game so hard
He's the only guy besides marcus who isn't fodder in rutger's join chapter
In my first fe6 playthrough (normal), I got Dieck to S-rank axes so I gave him armads and a silver axe for the final chapters.
23:55 "...but Ogma, like a lot of FE6's early cast is like a copy of Marth's army and their equivalents."
Can you do a the last promise tier list
Can I ask what exactly that “Should’ve picked a better class” joke was? Was it just a “Myrmidon bad” joke? I wouldn’t think he’d have dedicated the Alois bit to it if that’s all it was.
-rip my boi Astram- (I know he doesn’t really fit the archetype, but hey Gerik joins quite late too)
I really like the Ogma archetype and it’s sad that they’re one of the rarest player controlled archetypes. I know Oifeys are the true middle ground between growths and bases but I like having a unit that is just that bit better than everyone else while still being viable long term. Shoutout to saber especially for being the only physical unit in Celica’s army for a bit (besides Celica herself but she has no bulk) and Dieck for being a godsend in army of scrubs that isn’t a stereotypical edgelord.
One day, Mekkah will do the Julian tier list.
Raven has 10 str and 15 spd as a level 5 merc in HHM with 55% 40% 45% offensive growths. The guy is busted af. As the first mercenary in the first FE game released in the west, he kinda became the poster-boy for hyper offensive mercenary characters and was an inspiration for a number of hacks like the Last Promise and the Crimson Arm. I think he caps his strength and speed by 20-10 which is absurdly fast.
I can't say you're wrong about Gerik's rating necessarily, but having played Sacred Stones most recently on 0% growths, it pains me to see it. He is such a star in 0% growths, due to the lack of strong late game pre-promotes; he's pretty much the best combat unit from when he joins until the end. The fact that he starts at level 10 with a promotion item is so glorious.
Alright I join with TearRing Saga and Berwick Saga (haven't played Vesteria saga)
Xeno (TearRing Saga): Xeno...he solid overall but...his join time is decent but the fact, that he needs a Hero Crest to promote is a problem because of competition. Overall he a solid unit, nothing wrong with deploying him. B Tier
Sherpa from Berwick Saga: Well...best Ogma on this list maybe? Sure his availability isn't amazing but who gives a shit when he starts with Byrimranger which is his personal weapon that busted as hell. Like a brave sword on crack allowing him to attack three times? Yes, please! His skill set is also amazing and he is just flawless...well besides maybe defence but with his high HP it...not much of problem until later on. Oh did I forgot to say that his recruitment requirements is piss easy? So overall...S tier all the fucken way!
Hey guys, does anyone know the song playing at ~2:00 minutes in with the soft female vocals? I hear it in every tier list video but I'm not sure what FE game it's from
All songs are from Shadows of Valentia. The playlist I use for this is no longer available on TH-cam, unfortunately. edit: it plays when you open up SoV
Pretty sure it's the title/menu music for Shadows of Valentia.
@@Mekkkah Thanks Meqqah
@@purppanther You would think I know this considering I just played through the game again recently. Thank you.
What about Laslow from fates. I think he fits the build for a mercenary from what you described
He's pretty late joining for the archetype tho. Not too late to become useless, but later than the standard archetype. Selena/Severa is also a mercenary but she joins a few chapters earlier.
Thats Xenoblade Chronicles 2 in the background right?
It's Echoes
Waiting on that pegasus knight tier list
No mounted mercenaries? Why is there even a tier S
Disagree with Kamui, there’s a noticeable gap between him and Saber
I’m still waiting on that early game cleric list
Mekkah I’m playing through Path of Radiance right now and I chapter 23 is driving me insane
Gregor is, like all Awakening units that aren't Frederick, Robin or Robin-Spawn, difficult to rate on the highest difficulties because literally why are you using him when you could just be killing things with Robin/Robin 2.0? He does have pretty decent base stats, with enough strength to two-shot squishies and enough speed to be usable with a good pairup, and he actually has some base defense on him which is a nice perk. Unlike most units in Lunatic Awakening he actually has some opportunity to see combat just because of his starting position. Unfortunately Nowi doesn't give him speed on pairup, and of course on lunatic he comes with 12 speed on a map where all the enemies have at least 9, so he literally can't double anything on his join map at least until you can get him Lonk or Cordie as a pairup. He does start at level 10, which would be nice because there's basically no reason not to promote as soon as possible in Awakening and it puts him closer to hero's Sol skill at level 5, which is one of the best skills in the game. But the first master seal (which you actually get in his join chapter) is really hotly contested because it basically has to go to Robin, so at best he gets the chapter 10 drop (which would probably be better served on one of the early fliers anyway, if you're bothering to use anyone other than Robin), which really negates the advantage he would've had as an early promote. I don't have a lot of experience with Hard but his bases are only slightly worse there and the enemies are considerably weaker so I imagine his combat should be better on lower difficulties. Looking at enemy stats in his join chapter on Hard he can actually one round some of them, so that's an improvement. I know Espinoza was using him in his 0% growths Hard run because his bases as an insta-promote are pretty commendable (and Robin doesn't need the first seal on 0%). So yeah, okay but not spectacular, tier that as you will.
Is Jessie a mercenary or a myrmadon? It's been a while
And does fates have any?
Jesse is a mercenary, but in that game they promote to myrmidons (and then to dread fighters)
@@Mekkkah Oh I see, thank you and great video
Ah yes, the bara tier list. Finally.
If we were doing a proper bara tier list, FE8 and 10 would comprise 50% of the entries.
What bout Laslow and Selena from Fates.
Should Caesar also be considered for this list?
While Caesar is a mercenary in class and character he feels way too weak to be up here with the others, and he joins a fair bit later too.
Mekkah Fair enough.
Wheres the fe1 Rickard tier list?
If I had to flex an Ogma archetype from Tellius games maybe Volke? He’s not the appropriate class I’m just trying to be flexible since he can use knives which aren’t that great to begin with idk
Fe12 Ogma easiest solution for when the cab focus enemy starts is to either go Merc if there is something else to fight like in Ch9 and the rest of the time be a Hunter for Self improvement through cheap exp and Bow Rank and since you don't have much good units and you need cheap is acceptable.
That way Ogma can become Horseman Gerik style so now he has access to Swords but also Bows what is a really good role compresion for anti Air and Sword utility. You also just need a lot of cheap on SD and the Hunter you get is Castor and he is not great because of his low level.
Ogma is also just higher Lv so It takes less effort to promote what is important because in SW stads really don't matter as much as ranks.
Fe12 Ogma there is no defense, he is just a worse Luke and Luke is already borderline in everything.
raven gets love from mekkah. nice.
Gregor is solid. He can immediately reclass, or stsy as a Merc for a while. Mercenaries get armsthrift, which is broken. Gregor needs statboosters to make good use of it though.
Unlike a lot of units, Gregor has decent bases and weapon ranks, so he can be trained on Lunatic, unlike most of the shepherds. Hero is a fantastic class too. C or D is fair for him.
Time to guess the top 3 like usual...
This one is a lot harder, I'm inexperienced with these guys,
I'm guessing...
Saber
Raven
Gerik
Lets see how I do
Edit: dang, 1/3, that's not great, didn't even notice Fergus tbh
Both times I've played FE6, Dieck consistently carries the team throughout. I dont feel like he falls off. Maybe I get spd lucky with him but he always stands out as one of my best units.
What about Volke? Properly not a mercenary but VERY similar
With how much you praised Raven I'm surprised he ended up in B. I would say low A for him, maybe above Ogma?
I agree on everywhere else.
He spends a good chunk of time locked to by far the worst weapon type in fe7 and is stuck at 5/6 move forever where a lot of the S/A tier gets 7. Raven isn't bad by any means, but he certainly has flaws that hold him from the top.
why oujay is not on the list ?