Porsche Taycan - How Did It Go So Wrong?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ค. 2024
- You bought a Porsche Taycan from new, hoping that it might hold its value pretty well.
They absolutely haven't.... But why is this?
#porsche #taycan #residuals #depreciation
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NUMBER ONE reason - it is MASSIVELY overpriced to begin with. By about 40-30 grand. And the market just corrects the gullible buyers' delusions.
👆
I dont think thats the main problem, but buying a taycan with 40k miles on it with the 50k Cost in the Horizont for a battery Pack because the car is out of warranty? Noone will go for it. Youd rather buy a petrol car and exchange some parts...and even in high spec engines, these costs wont and up to those numbers usually. Yeah..of course a high spec engine has rediculous Costa as sell, if it has to be replaced...but you can foresee it or risk it?
Lets be real: Those arent every persons cars and seeing KIAs for 70k is also rediculous. My wage didnt go up that much that I can suddenly talk about cars easily in 60-100k range.. thats out of scopes for most and it should be. Its an importabt Transport, but should it chew away double or triple the Costa of your nice house throughout your life? For a glorified carriage?😂 Thats my Main problem...perhaps I dont see the status symbol of it anymore. Poor people buy big cars, rich people drive low end cars.. it doesnt indicate anything anymore. 😂😂
EV cars are white goods, mobile phones on wheels. great leased when new for the tax incentives but the private 2nd hand market is dead.
Buying a Porsche is mostly based on emotion, and without a Porsche IC engine it’s just another soulless EV with poor range and in my opinion ugly styling (why does the Audi version look so much better?). High dollar EV’s are crazy bad investments which can ONLY be leased to shield you from the depreciation. Porsche HQ is probably having sleepless nights with their decision to go full EV with the new Macan and upcoming Boxster/Cayman. I’ve owned 10 Porsches, but will never buy an EV version.
@@993mikeI’ve owned 14 Porsches, one of them a Taycan, a 2020 4S, and I loved it, to the point of being evangelical about it. It’s hands down the best Porsche to drive and most comfortable, when you don’t have to get anywhere far away and you could just floor it, guzzling through its battery like no tomorrow. But after a while I realized the car had corrupted me. I wasn’t really enjoying its capabilities anymore. I had become a cheap, soulless bastard only caring about how much I could save on road tolls, parking and charging the bloody thing. I stressed around plugging it in when tariffs were low and I really hated myself for it. I even stopped using my other 2 911’s because petrol was much more expensive. So driving the 991 Carrera T or god forbid the 964Turbo, became like something of a luxury I denied myself, because I always measured it up against taking the Taycan. Then COVID happened and I got scared as I thought everything would come crashing down and sold my 964Turbo in March 2020.
I hate battery tech so much….
Nobody treats batteries well, and when a second owner gets a bill to replace the battery it’s a shitshow
The prices say otherwise. Did you watch the video?
Tesla Model 3 and Y are holding up fairly well.
The greatest issue outlined by Harry Metcalfe was you don't know how the battery has been looked after.
If you need a new one in a Taycan you'll be staring down the barrel of £40K+.
Add enormous depreciation to this and people are simply walking away.
No denying - it's a huge risk
There was a recall to pressure test certain batteries. Those that failed: £55k for a new one. Thankfully Porsche footed the bill
New Mercedes AMG V8 engine quote £65k. So £40k seems on par. And it should get cheaper …. Oh wait it’s Porsche.
Porsche could simply implement a free battery health check: Nissan leaf buyers can do it with an aftermarket Bluetooth plugin device and read battery health with an app, so it's not rocket science. Every second hand electric car should be sold with a battery health test: Iit would help the whole industry... unless that is, manufactures know something we don't...
@@oldbasted That's a disingenuous comparison. You're not likely to put a new engine in your used AMG. Not only because it's less likely to completely fail than a battery but also because you'll put a reconditioned used one in if you had to.
You can't put a reconditioned battery in your EV.
Now, I'm pretty sure we all know this so I hope you reflect and quit behaving this way.
My GTS is on contract hire and the payments over 36 months are less than the massive depreciation. Regardless of cost etc, still an utterly brilliant car.
And that's what it's all about - the drive 👍🏻
the market will correct your delusions in the near future.
GTS is the right choice!
So the solution is to waste your money renting a car like a muppet?
@@thesaint8400muppet 🤔 Company pays for the car, offset against VAT and corporation tax, 2% benefit in kind. Hardly the decision of a muppet but each to their own.
I think you’ve missed a crucial factor why vehicles aren’t selling: high interest rates! The uk is currently in a recession with record inflation, coupled with future energy cost uncertainty.
This is literally the main reason….and not mentioned at all lol.
the average uk interest rate over the last 100 years is 8.3% , inflation in nowhere near record highs .
I don't think recession affects the wealthy, the rich and poor gap is getting bigger, and they're getting wealthier.
The market which I covered, is a consequence of these factors
People still don't want cars that depreciate quickly, even if interest rates are zero. And part of the problem with the Porsche is that when a battery cell fails, the car ends up in the shop for two or three or four months
Last year when I was about to order a Taycan the dealer told me there was along wait list. But then I see them everywhere… very common car . This was because like me, company car buyers were taking advantage of the tax breaks. Immediately I realised that values were going to be a nightmare in future. I was right to wait.
Both the employer and employee benefit buying EV. Tax benefits are significant. These are the buyers when new. These people didn’t buy Panemeras! The tax benefits were so high!
Now they flood the second hand market and private buyers don’t buy!
Nearly bought one. And they now have stock. Offer discounts! But the facelift is coming and depressing current model value. The range on the current one didn’t work for me. Facelift much better , on paper.
As mentioned the APR on finance is crazy. People are feeling the pain.
All cars are expensive today. Look at other brands! Madness.
Owning an electric car is a bit like a reverse game of pass the parcel. Everyone is slowly coming to understand that when the battery fails and needs replacing, as it ultimately will, whoever is unfortunate enough to own the car at that time, will either have a bill for tens of thousands of pounds or end up with a car worth less than the price of a replacement battery. So basically no one wants to be left holding the parcel when the music stops
You get 180.000km or 8 years full warranty on battery and motors on a Tesla. My model 3 has only 3.5% degradation after 4y and 45.000km. I am not worrying at all. When warranty runs out and the car for whatever reason needs a new battery it will cost about 16.000k with labour. Given almost zero maintenance cost and extremely low running cost, no road tax it's actually still very low cost of ownership. Compared to a normal car with service, taxes, petrol and something is bound to break. Not cheap.
@@dpie4859 So what you've just described is the music still playing. It doesn't change my point. I've had cars that were from the 60's and were still running fine and when I decided to rebuild the engine it cost me 1k. How much will new electric motors cost for a tesla? Or any of the other components that haven't been in existence long enough know their lifespan. Also if the petrol tank ever needs replacing it won't cost me 16k. What do you think a Tesla will be worth in 56 years time? My car is still worth about 30k...... 24k more than I paid for it
@@dpie4859 You sound desperate to mitigate you poor choice
@@adambodhi431 You are so right. There wont be any ev that lasts 20 yrs,.It just wont happen.
@@dpie4859What you’re saying makes perfect sense. Unfortunately however, the EV-naysayers don’t want to hear the facts, which is a real shame.
Supply and demand! These car’s will become a good value used car price proposition. The only people who are complaining are some of the new car buyers, but not all, or most. I purchased a near new in (2k on the clock) from BMW in 2017. Its value is a fraction of what I paid for it. The car still works. I am happy with it, and the plan was to drive it until the battery capacity degraded to point It became unusable, or it becomes uneconomical to repair. This hasn’t happened yet. iam still enjoying it with no plans to sell. I believe the only reason why some YTubers and are whining is because their speculative investment has gone bad.
There are a few simple reasons for the Taycan’s catastrophic depreciation (and it is only going to significantly worsen
1. Too early in the technology curve. Solid state batteries will drop the weight 400 kilos; charge more rapidly and offer far greater range with no fire risk. At this point the old tech will be literally become worthless!
2. Uncertainty: battery condition/longevity is affected by so many unknowns that neither end user nor dealer has any faith in them. To add to the joys, Porsche’s battery warranty is a scam offering no security whatsoever (when you read the small print.)
3. Reliability: I have owned 11 Porsches (and currently have 3) and I have had significant problems with 40% of them. Porsches (lovely though they are ) are simply not that reliable . This is only exacerbated by the shift to EV.
4. Range: 186 miles at 85% at 18 degrees in a Turbo S (20% less in winter) is a joke.
5. Packaging. 5 meters long with limited space/storage in the saloon.
6. Lifeless drive. Neck snapping acceleration and very relaxing. But a tyre shredding 2.3 soulless tons, terrible brakes (either underpowered or - with the carbon ceramics - a terrifying dead spot before they bite do not result in pleasant experience.
6. Environment: Ihave run at least one electric car for the past 7 years and they are great for certain things… the environmental argument is largely bogus (unfortunately); particularly when applied to an incredibly heavy, inefficient car with terrible range.
The public are voting with their feet.
Some good points, the brake issue on 6 is a known fix. Shouldn't be like that.
I have a 4s 2020 model , and already had costs of warranty repairs extending over 40k Swiss francs ! It has been in repair for over 3 months in the last 2 years ! The service is great , I get a rental for no expenses , but I am mainly sitting not in my car ! I am glad I didn’t buy it new , still I paid 115k , worth now 2 years later under 75k ! That’s crazy
Some people have had poor luck with these cars, sorry to hear that!
Wilsch en mir verkaufe?
40 k, how?
Worth under 48k now would be more accurate
@@adamrees3675yes
My friend leased a Tycan Turbo for business use. She can't use it for high mileage days as there is almost nowhere to charge it. Yes, it can charge quickly but there are only a handful of the high output chargers available. She kept her diesel Audi that is now the main car again...
Similar report from a friend of mine who business leased one. Was okay when running round Manchester near his home address could could charge it up at home every night. But long-range nowhere to charge it. Also went back to the Audi
@@noelht1 Madness! 🙄
turbo and charge it ?????????????????????????
@@josephberrie9550 You need to do a tiny bit of reading. The turbo is the top of the range electric Taycan. They are all electric. Have been since launch years ago...
Agree , electric cars just a toy not to depend on for serious transportation for work, we need 15 times the charging stations or increasing the range to 1000 miles per charge under cold and very hot conditions,and the big elephant in the room the size and weight of the battery
Bought a new Nissan Leaf Tekna in 2014. With government discount and family working for Nissan, £3000 family discount the total discount of £8000 off the car the price was £27000. We moved approximately 10 months later and the range which was borderline became impossible by around 5 miles (each way). In late 2015 the car was valued at £6000 so a £35000 car lost £29000 value in that time or £2900 per month. That value dropped like a stone fired downwards from a catapult.
That's brutal depreciation!
I have had my Taycan for 3 years now. I will probably keep it for at least 5 years more. Dont care about depreciation, its enjoying every time I sit into the car.
They're in the £40k's used on Autotrader, however battery tech. and ranges are moving so fast so quickly, if it's not possible or financially viable to upgrade the battery I'd still how on.
I took one for a spin at the Porsche experience center Silverstone. It was amazing, but to me it was obvious these would flop. With a range of around 200 miles, (on a good day) which would only get worse over the coming years, a terrible charging network and high cost of charging, (unless at home) they just don't stack up. The tech is great, they look great, but the battery and charging experience is what has hammered them. At least with a Tesla you can be getting closer to 300 miles and more and use the extensive charging network, for less than half the money. And yes I am a Porsche fan, had Boxsters, 911 and Panamera. But the Tesla just wins in this department.
My point was going to be range. I have one and you really only have 200 miles. Sure you can get 220 but who tries to get home on zero. So 220 means in the real world, leaving some margin in case you burn more juice for what ever reason means 200 is as far you ever would really go. And 200 now, is less in years to come and so many cheaper cars are up closer to 300.
I think charging issues are irrelevant. Most Taycan owners will be home owners with home charging and a charge card given to you when you buy a Taycan, will get 3 years charging for only 30p per kWh at Ionity superchargers which I have managed to use maybe 75% of the time on longer runs.
So with every new EV driving up the range, Taycan range is too low.
You do realize that Porsche can use the Tesla charging network too, right?
@@alextsukanov3536yes and Tesla can revoke that if they wish and may well do if it starts to compromise their own vehicles. But more so, the Tacan with barely 200 miles of range on a good day, (when brand new) is not a vehicle I would choose to spend around 100k+ on. The range is just to short.
Tesla is a great ev but doesn’t last or drive like a Porsche. I see no reason why Taycan battery won’t last 200,000 miles with minimal degradation. And that will last me 15 years or more and I’ll live with an utterly brilliant vehicle.
@@oldbastedyou don't know it will last that long. Nobody does.
Yes please to a company car tax special.
From what I understand, a lot of people misunderstand the tax benefits and implications for a company buying and selling an electric car.
If you purchase a brand new fully electric car through your limited company, you can claim a First Year Allowance of 100% against your corporation tax bill. (Corporation tax is 25%.)
This capital allowance can be claimed if the vehicle is purchased outright by the company or via a hire purchase agreement, but not if the vehicle is leased under an agreement whereby the company doesn’t actually own the vehicle.
When calculating man-maths, people often forget when the vehicle is sold the company will pay corporation tax on any sale proceeds.
Traditionally, cars do not qualify for 100% allowances, and instead qualify for a writing down allowance each year. A new electric car is therefore a tax advantage.
Purchasing a second-hand fully electric vehicle through a company can still be beneficial because capital allowance are still available but at a lower rate of 18% per year. So, 7% lower than a new car, but a 2 year old Taycan CT 4s is perhaps £50k less now than 8 months’ ago! So, second-hand electric Porsche still makes sense.
Almost no companies can claim back the VAT on a car purchase, electric or otherwise. This is because to reclaim the full VAT, it needs to be used exclusively for business, such as a pool car.
Other benefits / no BiK charge:
• If your company provides an employee with a an electric company car (leased or purchased), the business can pay for the installation of a home charging point.
• Company will pay the insurance.
• Company will pay the maintenance.
• Electric vehicle drivers do not have to pay fuel benefit tax for any electricity paid for by their employer, even if it's for personal use. (This needs checking because I’m not sure how old the article was that I read.)
Sure you are correct about the free “fuel” at work. See it all over the country. Cars being charged at work place, for free! This should end. It is a BIK. can’t get petrol for free! At some point the taxation on EVs will change. The government needs the money!
Exactly - some great insight there!
You are spot on
This is just spending money to save on tax, plus someone is footing the bill be it your employer or taxpayer. The car itself being good value is separate to all the perks and subsidies on the backend. No doubt warm fuzzy feelings from paying less tax, but I'd argue on a far over inflated purchase price to begin with.
I kind of knew that I was going to take a massive hit on depreciation when I bought my CT4S last year - at nearly new it had already lost 24% off list when I got it and 6 months on, I daren't guess how much I'd get for it now! The only car I have ever had that didn't depreciate was a 911 GTS (quite the opposite), so you can't let it bother you - but I guess it's hard when the motoring media is currently giving a lot of air time to the depreciation on Taycans and the glut of them on the secondhand market. I guess like many Taycans, mine was bought through my company, we paid a large deposit, a good proportion of which would have gone to HMRC anyway. But.... I love the car, it looks and drives fabulously, I can charge at home at 7p/kWh which means I'm paying 25% of the cost of the diesel I was buying for the previous car, zero road tax (yes, I know that will no doubt change soon) and crucially, I look forward to driving it. Yes, I could have bought an electric golf for a fraction of the price - but I definitely wouldn't be watching TH-cam videos about the joys of owning one....
Some great points! The Taycan does have a lot of very good things going for it - if you can just open your eyes a bit!
It’s really no different to owning any other high end luxury car. They all depreciate horribly. The difference is with the tax breaks you can afford to run a Taycan and enjoy the best luxury car very cheaply. A few people thought they could by a Porsche and it wouldn’t depreciate - I have no idea why. There are now hundreds of fast chargers in excess of 150kw that you can use to charge on long journeys, sure you have to plan a little but it’s no big deal and once accepted it’s just part of a road trip.
It makes no sense privately to buy an EV new or 2nd hand. If its new it depreciates like a rock. If its 2nd hand the battery is potentially a financial ticking time bomb.
Leasing them makes more sense. And I've not even mentioned the public charging costs or state of the network.
Excellent sum up!......I purchased my Taycan Turbo S here in the UK (sticker price of £169k) for £120k cash. The Porsche dealer had a car park full of every colour and spec. I got 10k of extras (not worth the money) thrown in.
Unless you can afford it and pay cash.....DON'T BUY ONE! You are paying just for that Porsche badge. No where near as good (or as quick) as my Tesla Model S Plaid that I keep in Monaco.....that is, unless you don't mind driving something that looks like a giant suppository 😂🎉
Thanks for the feedback! I don't think the plaid looks quite that bad 😆
The S doesn’t look bad but it drives like a .Chevy impala. The Taycan drives well but boring.
My mate bought a Taycan Cross and sold it after about 5 months.. it wasn't a comfortable ride and made him feel nauseous and his family uncomfortable, and worst of all it had a high pitched electronic noise that drove him mad.. so after a 6+month wait to receive it, after 5 months sold it back to the dealership for a $9k loss on a $200k purchase. Could have been worse.
Love mine today, just like yesterday. (Bought it used with huge discount)
Good to hear it!
Do you know that if you move the passenger seat all the way forward the headrest will crack the glass roof? That happens to me and Porsche is in total denial of this situation negating a warranty claim. It’s not a manufacturing defect they say, it’s the customer’s fault, unbelievable. Legal battle coming up…Will keep you posted
What? Headrest is nowhere near the roof
Good luck, it sounds like a you problem.
Great insight. Regardless of list price, when the secondhand market price reflects similar price to the competition then it will bottom out. China byd is also a threat not to taycan but Tesla as they start to build quality cars at a more affordable price.
Would I buy a second hand Taycan looking at insurance and possible service costs? Maybe for the price of a second hand e-UP yes. I like cars, always did, but this Taycan does not occur on my wishlist, which must be about 109 cars long.
I think the oversupply in the used market is the main thing. The enthusiast market wanting to spend £50k on a used sports car is very limited and the self justification that it is some kind of investment no longer exists. I also think enthusiasts tend to want something with an engine. I think car enthusiasm in the future will be a bit like railway enthusiasts loving steam. Electric trains are so much better but no real appeal and I see the same happening with EVs. Company car tax breaks really do distort the market for EVs as you say.
Great observations there 👍🏻
Agree with all of what you said.
Also enjoyed watching you drive from “Death Roundabout” to North Camp.
Appreciated, yep, one of the most scenic routes the world has to offer.
Indeed. Hand't realised we were neighbours either. @@TABonTV
Thank you for an interesting video. I drive a Taycan 4S 2021MY - a great car!
Why is this happening? I see a few reasons:
Firstly, the early Porsche EV-adopters have already bought their Taycan and are moving on, dropping their Taycan after the lease has expired.
Secondly, as you mentioned, the prices of the new Porsche EVs are just too high from begin with. The Macan continues along this path and will have a residual value problem later on.
Thirdly, the many problems with the Taycan software and several recalls of this new premium - and expensive - EVs have shattered customers’ faith in the new technology and this has further added to the pressure on used EV-car prices in general and Taycan in particular (yet, Tesla Model S pre-2021 are hit just as bad).
Finally, the Porsche dealers in general have not embraced the EVs and have failed to develop used car programmes with extended warranties and attractive financing, often leaving existing owners with negative equity and fear of expensive repairs, and thus failing to attract new customers.
The result? You can pick up a young low mileage Taycan at incredibly low prices.
Thanks for the comment, some great points there!
Nice to see you driving around Farnborough 😊
General technology advances will continually hit the values of second hand EVs.
Also, the majority of EVs have no end user facing method of showing the health of the battery.
A battery that has been constantly charged on a fast charger, or in an EV that has been constantly driven hard will have more wear than one in a car home charged and not ragged.
If Porsche did a smaller ev it would be good. The Taycan is big. However, I like the quality of Porsche interiors. I like their high end leather. I have a couple of Porsches (bought new to my own spec) but not bothered with the taycan due to size. A smaller EV car would be a great little runaround to go into town with. Luxury small EV cars a big segment in my view. My wife wants something she can park in the tiny British car park spaces.
I agree, they are way to big. Almost 6ft wide!!
Yes, agree. We'll see more and more in this sector. EV boxster on the way and there'll be more competition just round the corner!
The problem is the battery size to get a range long enough to be practical ends up dictating a larger vehicle. Just the battery footprint necessitates a larger sized automobile. All current subcompact EVs have crap range.
The Taycan’s a great drive though (and no problems for me at least), with all the extra options (like PDCC, PTV, large wheels etc). I feel I got my money’s worth. You can really floor it on curvy mountain roads. So for a fun car which you can bring your kids in too, it’s great. (The 911 is too small for a family). For road tripping, not so much, and that goes for all EVs. It sucks to plan charging and commit yourself to the main roads. Not doing that again (I bought a G-Wagen to replace the Taycan and use for road tripping, however the Taycan is not sellable in this macroeconomic environment, and there’s no point in doing a ‘fire sale’ if you don’t have to).
I’ve seen some Taycans end up as rental cars, and it brings tears to the eyes to see how they’re treated (ugly chemical marks on the roof rails, scuffed paint, scratched screens and glass panels). So I understand why some Taycans have extremely low valuations.
In EU Taycan was on max bottom in terms of value ca month ago and when old stock was sold everything go slowly up again! So do not worry… ;-( it was on own low taycan maximum i think…. Its gone!
As soon as you got excited about the Isuzu Piazza Turbo.... I subscribed lol, only a real fanatic would know about these!!
Ha! Thanks, wish I'd got some footage! Very rare!
Owned one. Loved it ❤
I also wonder when the solid state batteries come in which is not far away wil cars like the porsche be obsolete or will you be able to swap with newer better tec?
Current EVs will be the Betamax of the video world😂
Solid state is still very far away. Don’t believe all the hype. It’s basic physics they have to reinvent .
You'll be able to change over to solid state battery, but you'll also have to change the battery management system. Goodness knows what the cost will be.
Biggest car battery manufacturer is CATL, their owner and chairman says over the last 10 years he´s spent $1bn on R&D on solid state batteries. He said you can build them but only under high pressure and they start to go bad after 20 charges. You cannot make them commercially. Toyota keeps promising solid state in 2 years time, been saying that for the past 6 years.
For sure unusual for Porsche but happens occasionally for many manufacturers (look at Maserati, Range Rover etc). Tesla Model S pre 2020 took huge residual hits, too.
I had a S75D from 2017. Cost me 600€ monthly leasing (20k of down payment) from which I saved 350€ between electricity vs diesel.
Then sold it at 180000km with a 10k gain on the leasing purchases price. It had still 44% of its new value.
At this number of km, this is unheard off in ICE car.
@@jeanbaptistelabelle You did well here. Today would be another picture because of the price reductions Tesla made in 2023.
reason 4 is the biggest, if you can by a car for whatever the cost is and then offset the cost against your profits to reduce tax, then people will flood to by the most expensive cars on cheap business leases.
Too expensive, sitting around in queues waiting to charge the thing, abysmal range, virtually as expensive to charge on a trip as filling a petrol car, depreciation unbelievable.
Great insights into what to think about before buying one of these awesome cars! I have had a deposit on hold with Porsche for 18 months now whilst watching the market drop like a lead balloon!
My main concern is what will happen in 10 years when the batteries need replacing and what people will think when buying one once it's 6 years old plus, surly this will be an issue.
In my opinion, batteries will be less of an issue due to expected increase of economies of scale and improvement in technology which generally results in fairly lower prices. The prices are dropping due to the unknown (EVs are newbies compared to 100yr record of ICE cars) and less to due with battery quality.
There's no escaping - batteries will need replaced at some point.
just short of 40k to replace on a GTS currently. Good luck with that.
Batteries meant to last the lifetime of car. My Lexus RX hybrid batteries seemed to have the same output up to 10 yrs old and with its new owner now 17 years old and battery range still holding out.
from watching reviews its a very good (electric car) but the original prices from 80k to 160k - ///// thats a lot ----- years ago bought a four year old boxster 3.2 spent quite some time looking but full p history - for that you got a bargain - it was well under 10k and drove like a brand new car - even looked like brand new it was well made and looked after .. owner had new 911 on order for the wife ... yes .. - fairly low mileage like for a porshe run in .. anyone who paid 100 - 160k for a taycan must have been drunk or silly rich ... now do now have full electric - personally advise go hybrid until charging network sorted out its patchy often busy often doesnt work -- getting stranded waiting hours ... both has happened in 1 year .. and without your own garage , they would be completely impratical
I’m reminded of Sun Microsystems and Silicon Graphics, they were the premium power work stations BITD and cost an absolute premium and fell victim to Moore’s law, continuous faster better cheaper. Seems like it might be a nice car at 40k, but 120k is luxury market. If Apple came out with their watch at a price-point to compete in the 10k watch market, it would be DOA, at 500 its even a bit questionable due to planned obsolescence. Anyway, a battery replacement at 40k is a non-starter for most folks
Yes! I was in awe of SGI products back in the day. $500k for an Onyx! 🤯 Now you have more power in your phone.
Prices do need to come down...
Plenty of folks owning cars that are beyond their means. The modern uk . Once Taycans go south of £40k i’ll take a look . Once they below £30k I’ll buy 😂
Do you think prices will continue to drop?. Right now in the US they are almost 60% off for a used turbo S that is 3-4 years old
60% off on a USED Taycan, is a complete ripoff
@@jimsteinway695 Are you suggesting it should be even more off?
As long as used supply continues to increase, prices will struggle to level out
In the UK, it's more like 80%
@@lowbirds90no its not
Would not touch one with a barge pole - great post 💪
Thanks. It would be hard to drive with a barge pole 😆
Electric cars are a big con ,Porsche Taycan .£120,000 new a year later £45000 lol
Just having a play on the car leasing company websites and something that makes the Porsche Taycan even a bad buy for companies is the lease cost.
I priced a Taycan 4S on the Porsche website with a few extras and it came to £103,000. The cost to lease this exact car over 36 months with 3 months down and 12k miles per year is £1,689.00 + VAT per month.
The BMW i5 M60 with a few extras on the BMW website also came to £103,000.
However, that is where the similarities ended.
The lease on the BMW with the same payment terms and mileage is only £903.00 + VAT per month.
Same price car with virtually the same performance and features - £786 per month cheaper.
I’m not surprised Porsche is struggling to sell the Taycan and the second-hand market has tanked - they are just MASSIVELY over priced.
The biggest problem is that there is no tax incentive passed on to the used EV market. !00% tax relief when buying new and zero when used. Add high interest rates, high charging prices, range....
Porsche have been at it for years re pricing on brand by model and tbf fair play to them, many people pay it. Look at the 911 vs boxster/cayman. Two cars that share a majority or parts, even their electronic systems are shared as shown on PIWIS by 9x6, 9x7, 9x1. Porshce sell MORE 911s and charge over double the price for one vs a boxster which fundamentally costs them the same to make. Infact they are highly likely to make far more money selling a 911 than a boxster.
The taycan is a great car, market hates it but porsche maintain their brand aspirational position and continue to charge a massive premium. They still sell them (new) through companies and their cash cow 911 balances their books.
Personally as a thinking man, it i was buying personally new, I'd take a Cayman. Price is right, less to loose and it is a fine driving sports car. However I am tempted by a second hand taycan, but worry they'll end up like the old 996 and will depreciate to nothing.
Indeed - problem is it's all a guess with Taycan futures (esp aged batteries), uncharted territory.
I think a better formula for a successful Porsche EV would be the Boxster version. Make it fun but basic and justify keeping it well under $100k. Something like the performance of a lightened Tesla M3 but can truely handle. Someone needs to come out with the "Mazda Miata" of fun EV's.
Porsche Toucan. Big bill!
😂
10 Isuzu Piazza Turbo’s on the road in the Uk according to howmanyleft. There is only one Talbot Tagora on the road though, not even any sorned!!
Protect yourself by not buying one. New car prices have gone completely silly, totally out of touch with reality. So many nice second hand buys right now.
Especially now with those scrap hunting cablers!How many can they scrap in a night??
leasing this mobile phone on wheels
Is your car a chain saw on wheel?
I’ve decided at the start of the ev craze to wait a couple generations and I think I was right if not too optimistic. There’s still a lot of long term issues to work out. Short leases who cares, but if you are buying to keep, better not be an EV
Seems like a sensible approach. I think (hope) everyone buying an EV knows it's not going to be a forever car.
Well presented video surprised you've not had more subscribers.
Thanks, YT is a long game, esp in automotive.
Electric Cars will undergo rapid improvements. In performance/range/charge times. So they will devalue more. As the successors will be substantially better.
In U.K. for a second car, mostly required for school runs, and local 60 mile commute, we Purchased a 2023 Jaguar I Pace HSE for £39.000 ten months ago it was retailed for £69.000 and has done 8500 miles, it comes with balance off Jaguar Warranty, Depreciation for once working in used buyers favour..❤
Exactly this, personally I think it's good, and opens doors for a lot of buyers.
I bought a used Panamera two years ago and it is still worth what I paid for it.
As long as people are willing to throw away money, the car companies will continue to pick it up.
Because during the chip shortage all cars had mkt adjustments that were ridiculous. Not to mention the amount of these people had to buy to get an gt3 rs. This should be in the same price range as the tesla s plaid.
Been put off buying a Taycan (v1) and Audi E-Tron because of the recurring heating issue.
They need to adjust the design to make battery replacement a lot easier.
Expensive and good value are 2 different things.
Doesn’t matter how easy they are to replace - it’s simply the cost of the batteries that is so high
Nio is the only manufacturer who has battery swap technology and infrastructure. Check them out.
Yes, and I won't be overpaying for a NEW '25 Taycan; why would anyone, unless they want to lose 25-30% in the first 12, maybe 18 months. We recently purchased a '21 CPO Taycan 4S with 18K miles for $82.5k, knowing it'll lose another $10K (min) in value within the next 12 months - but it's better than having paid $129.5K new, right? Our neighbor just leased an Audi eTron GT ($158K sticker) for $1K/month for a 12-month lease... say what? $12K to drive a $158K car with 50 miles on it? He opted for 6500 miles/yr, .20/mile excess mileage (an extra 5K miles will only cost him $1K). He also purchased an excess wear package (rims, tires, etc) for $950 (vs. $495 for the typical return fee). I consider the above to be a steal - why? Because Audi can't sell a $150K+ EV!! Bottom line - if we couldn't afford to lose on depreciation we wouldn't have touched a '21 CPO 4S w/18K miles for $82.5. Will the '25 refresh hammer earlier models - maybe... I think the new pricing is going to push people away from Porshe (EVs); they're just not a great value, despite the extended battery range and faster charging.
I’ll chime in here. I have a 2020 Taycan 4S that I just bought 3 months ago. I am in Canada and I got it for $100,000 and I traded in a 2022 BMW M4 cabriolet competition for almost the same amount of money - I have a fully fully fully loaded Taycan with 20,000 km and I couldn’t be happier. I don’t care anbout depreciation from this point on because I got an awesome deal and I am part of a forum of people who own GTS and Turbo/Turbo S Taycans and guess what? They are very very well off people who could care less about the car depreciating - especially people buying Porsches for $200,000. The point I’m trying to make is that there will always be wealthy people who continue to purchase expensive cars that tank in depreciation and they don’t care. The owner before me lost $100,000 in 2 years and didn’t really care too much. Some people just enjoy their cars - however I do agree with you - these cars are better off being leased every couple of years
Sounds like you live in a very nice neighborhood with some real first world problems. The Porsche fans will continue to snap up the overpriced EVs though, I have no doubt about that. $120K+ "turbo" Macans are going to get snapped up like free food. The cheap government sponsored Euro leases are the primary motivating force here. When they finally dry up, and they will eventually, a day of reckoning occurs worldwide.
Thanks to this video analysis….While reading through the comments I was put off buying a second hand 2022 Taycan 4s from California for only $40K US …. Though the pictures look great I am pretty sure that the battery is in its last 50 miles 😅….
That's the thing. You never know how the battery is unless you can get it on diagnostics...
But there should be a warranty on the battery?
Maybe the infrastructure makes the value of the cars? Here in France infrastructures and costs are more interesting and the cheapest used Taycan we can afford is around 60000 £ and 32000 miles
For sure - it will have an impact. Much like a boat in the middle of a sandy desert isn't going to be worth much...
EV main cost is battery which are reducing year on year. maybe the prices tanking are supply and demand- lots taycans bought through companies for tax reasons and now being sold.
I think your comments support leasing instead of buying. I've just leased my second, it is a brilliant car. In the lease, Porsche locks in the residual value and I just have to return the keys at lease end. Some of the points you make reflect the general market conditions, Porsche can't be responsible for the external pressures. High end automobiles have always been an expensive proposition. At one point Rolls Royce had a pre-owned lease program, that is one way to prop up the used vehicle values. You fail to mention the impact of the new EV Macan on the Taycan market. I appreciate the comparison that was made to "disposable" technology, phones, computers, etc, where useful life is diminished because of advancing tech.
Yeah - leasing almost certainly the better option right now, particularly for private - deals are not as attractive as they were though. Go used.
Good deep dive
I feel the value is driven down by the constant and significant innovation. Porsche is always at the edge of R&D with the product always getting better in very tangible terms... The assumption is the buyers can afford it and if you can't stomach the losses, you should be buying special 911's or the GT4s or something with scarcity...
Another reason is that Luxury Chinese cars are starting to appear in Europe at very reasonable prices and the quality they have are very very good .
They are getting very good, very quickly!
Good, let's hope they can get into all markets worldwide and inject some real competition into the EV game. Especially, the sub $30K range which should exist but doesn't .
Can you do more SL55 content please 👌
I'll take that order! 😆 More on the way shortly - take a break from the Taycan content!
I hope this comment section can help me understand two things. 1. does anyone really “BUYS’ EVs? as far as I’m aware most people lease them. I’ve leased two so far i love them as daily drivers because so cheap to run and maintain (if you get one with specs of a performance car). My second question is, when you lease a car why does depreciation matter? you hand it back at the end of your lease and even if the cars in negative equity, as long as not too bad you can either clear that with a deposit or add the negative equity to your new finance.
I didn’t buy my Taycan as an investment. I enjoy it. I wanted to liberate myself from Big Oil and I wanted a sports EV with a prestige label. 3 years ownership and not a single major blip.
Great to read this! So many folk can't get over the EV thing. I'm a huge fan of the way the Taycan drives on the road.
Wish more owners with your experience would chime in! Great to hear.
I really do t have any trouble charging. My fuel costs have plummeted switching from petrol to EV. 95% charged cheaply at home off solar. Just allow another 15 mins on long journeys, it’s a breeze really.
The basic model has gone up considerably since its release here in Ireland. Since last year another €14k. In general with all electric brands, the second hand market is very weak. I think customers are nervous picking up one. Garages are also offering 0% finance on new and 10.9% with second hand…garages are selling like crazy the new cars. Like you said when you go to trade in you are in for a shock!! -60% after 2 years… you will see less newer cars coming however , when pcp contracts end, customers will have lost their deposit and be forced to hand back or refinance…again, this will only make them switch back to the old way…
Yeah, the pricing strategy doesn't seem to make any sense!
When the new model comes out next year the pre facelift Turbo S will drop to around £50k if not less.
This is what I’m waiting for! 😊
I think Porsche are trying to keep it as a premium product. Although the more Porsche put up prices, the more pressure dealers are under to discount new EV cars to sell stock. That number of precious gen Taycans for sale will only increase when the new model starts being delivered to customers.
Great Video, these are on Auto trader from around £43000. The ONLY way to get a Taycan is to put it on a Business Lease, zero benefit in kind (or now 2%) full deductible and (providing you don't go over mileage) you just hand it back to the finance company. DON'T USE YOUR OWN CASH...THATS SUICIDE!
Thanks! Exactly - seems the right way to go at the moment.
Your right about not being bothered with an EV. Coming from Australia where infrastructure is lacking to say the least but mostly our massive distances we have to travel , EVs just don't make sense
The Taycan? Tax reasons only in the UK. A big car and asMercedes new SL, too wide for the UK roads. I think your second hand SL deserves more space on your channel. A really nice car.
More content on the SL inbound 👍🏻
Sounds like a great used car buying opp
I am wondering what will happen if you buy used. There are 1y 15k miles finely specced Taycans for 50% of purchase price. However, I am not sure I will be able to sell it after 4 years of ownership… meanwhile new EVs come with more power and range and less weight…
Need to balance up what is going to work for you!
Increased prices of new taycans will only serve to increase prices of second hand taycans, which is positive news for current taycan owners! It will be more expensive purchasing brand new, subsequently compelling some to buy second hand, therefore propping up used taycan prices-positive news for current taycan owners. This has been Porsche policy for many years.
I hope so, but too much uncertainty - and the way new Taycans are purchased doesn't help at all.
I doubt it. The 40% range gap between old and new Taycans will only drive the first gen lower. Let’s keep in mind the Taycan already launched with low range for 92kw pack. Lots of people ordered the Gen 1 Taycan sight unseen. If we are being honest, for such a large car it’s cramped inside. Way more options now on the market and I think a lot of people who prefer a higher ride hide will migrate to the Macan ev if anything - which is cheaper. Yet again driving the Gen 1 Taycan market down further.
Apart from relibility, the big issue for me is the fact that EV batteries degrade over time and you can charge them less and less and they need to be replaced after a few years and they cost £ tens lf thousands. I wouldnt touch a second hand EV with a 20ft barge pole.
And when the battery dies, it effectively scraps the whole car - so I don't think the depeciation curve will level out any time soon. The values of some of these cars is roughly the same as the cost of a new battery. I wouldn't touch one with the proverbial.
And the new Hyundai Ionic 5 N. 641 bhp for under 70.000 bp. And it has gear shifting and sportscar sound.
It is good value, just not sure about fake engine noises... I like the fact that Porsche just went for a spaceship kinda vibe.
You can turn it of if you want. Personally il like it but I don`t need it all the time.@@TABonTV
boght Taycan CrossTurismo Turbo for 190k, sold after 2 months for 175k, i was lucky
then bought IX50 for 136k, sold in after 6 month for 100k, and still lucky
then bought S63, Bentayga w12 and Panamera diesel 310kw, the best 3 cars to have
yes, u cud prefer G63 over Bentayga, but Bentayga is much better, i had G63 and G400, just not woth the hype. Yes you coud have 911, 992 turbo s instead panamera turbo diesel, but its insanely expensive. I had it sold and boght like i said S63, Bentayga and Bentley Supersports, all for 1 992 turbo s price)). When 992 tbs gona cost 130k, then its time to get it again. Otherwise Bentayga w12 is just ultimate pleasure car, the torque is so enjoyable and turbos act so quick, i have not lost any redlight fights yet with Bentayga(no porsches have beaten me)✌
do you know how much worth SL65 v12? it costs 190k yeah v12 is something you are ready to pay for and w12 is not worse. Its not as qoick as 911 turbo s but the ride is sooo enjoyable just drop dead good....
I think the replacement battery being between £40,000 and £50,000 might also be an issue . Will effectively make these worthless once the warranty has expired
Wouldn't even buy the car for a £1 knowing I had to replace the battery
Turns out people don't want to spend 30% extra on a less capable/compatible vehicle that takes a lot more money and labor to fix. Not to mention being useless if you rent and charging stations are always a long wait like here. On top of that you have to pay 1/5-1/4 of the car's value to replace the battery pack when that inevitably goes bad as well. All in all, don't buy an EV or cars in general as an investment, really not a difficult concept.
I had to watch this video twice after realising you drove past where I used to live @ 9:45 . The first time for what you wre saying and the second looking at streets that were so familiar to me. Looks like you went from Blackwater to Farnborough. Never thought I'd say this but I do miss Farnborough!
Good spot! Known by the rich and famous all over the world these days (because they use the airport for their private jets 😆)
I might be able to afford one soon😊
Ok for tax deductions but government subsidies have to come from somewhere. Nothing for the private buyer except potential massive costs in maintenance, and range worries, but great if you don’t go far.
The issue is insurance , some companies as of April 2024 won’t even quote for a Taycan , simply put if you have a bump in one and there is even the slightest damage to the battery the car is more or less a write off because of ten enormous cost of the battery to replace , not so bad on other brands , I think they saw the writing on the wall if they load the price of a battery replacement , Porsche on the other hand went the other way and thought they could fleece the customer on parts inc the battery. That would be ok if it were an ice engine becaue very unlikely in a minor accident the engine would be trashed but in an EV you only need to dent the pack or have it go over the allowable temperature and it’s toast .
Yeah, this is a huge problem, and will continue to be so until more serviceable tech comes out.
@@TABonTV The tech is simply not fit for purpose - you bought a car that is not fit for purpose, hence it's value is falling through the floor.
Did he just say a £140k Car is good price 😂 What world do these clowns think we live in. They produced too many and now have done a major upgrade. It’s like an iPhone 13 when the iPhone 15 has just landed. Taycans to me look great and I’d have one in a minute but as shown sticker prices of £160k then a year later same Car is £70k is madness. Who wants to take a £90k hit more or less pissing it up a wall. Porsche are simply so up themselves. Didn’t know the reliability was a problem with the Taycans, you’d think they would be bulletproof.
And don’t count that ice ban holding at 2035 after the election anything can happen. Dear Porsche if a Taycan is taking up lot space I’ll take one and look after it and use it and give it back when you need it 😁
Looks like Farnborough. Close to Costco and the airport
I think the electric car market has been caught in a perfect storm in regards to depreciation especially with the extension of selling vehicles with a combustion engine which will get extended in my opinion beyond the already extended period of 2035 because firstly we in the UK aren't ready for them and also the decision to buy one and going green should be left to the individual because the government are having to build more gas burning stations in order to generate the extra electricity which defeats the whole object of going green?
If for example the government had an grant of combining solar panels and battery storage with buying of a new electric car then the electric car market and our environment would be on to a winner. Electric car's do have their disadvantages but they have the potential to be the future but are sadly not at the moment.🇬🇧👍
Absolutely, there's lots stacked against them right now and government not doing enough to incentivise
Well, you'd rather your (natural) gas get burned in a high-tech power plant with some opportunity to mitigate emissions before dumping into our air. So EVs offer that, for whatever it's worth. I agree that the electric grids globally are nowhere near ready for total EVs by 2035, nor will they be.
EVs will have terrible resale value simply because it's newer technology and it's improving rapidly. Nobody is going to want the old version when the new version is so much better.
That's not really true if somebody could lay hands on a cheap reliable vehicle with very low ownership costs, which ultimately is where used EVs should end up, the market would be nearly perpetual for them. The ability to source replacement batteries for all the orphaned early adopter battery configurations (the current models) is an absolute deal breaker. You won't be able to get a usable, reasonably-priced replacement battery for most current EVs: EVER! Not now, not in a couple of years and certainly not in a decade or more. That is the dirty little secret that used EV buyers need to hold in the back of their minds when shopping in the used EV "bargain bin", assuming long term ownership is desired. The old cliche about cars being a depreciating asset not an investment is exponentially true for the EV battery pack.
Great video
👍🏻
Yes, yes, yes, but...the ACCELERATION! 😺
Yes! 🔥
Evs only work when they cost the same as normal cars. They are far too expensive to make
Hope is they'll get a lot cheaper!
tesla reduced new prices and second hand cars are dropping quickly, i sold a 2017 tesla model s as part ex and audi pad me £32k and a year later a dealer in london selling same car for £19k