How to Build the Subaru FA Engine for BIG Power!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- In this week's video we are finally getting the chance to build an FA engine that was worth making a video about! See what we have to do to prepare this engine to support around 500 horsepower.
Guess what? We sell parts and MotoIQ merchandise! Now you can buy all the same aftermarket parts we use on our project cars and features from the brands we trust! Buying your aftermarket parts from us is the easiest way you can help help support our channel and make sure we can continue making content like this! Check it out at shopmotoiq.com!
LINKS:
BUY MotoIQ Merchandise: shopmotoiq.com...
SHOP for parts: shopmotoiq.com/
READ MORE on MotoIQ.com: www.motoiq.com/
FOLLOW US on Instagram: / motoiq
LIKE US on Facebook: / motoiq
I love that in the same video he talks about contrasting crystalline grain structure so intelligently and then some how says things like “makes ej’s go bye-bye” and “dead nuts balance” without losing any credibility. Fantastic video!
“If you run above 330 and for sure above 350ft lbs… you tend to bend the rod (😊) it’s usually a catastrophic failure… bending the rod isn’t cool” I laughed my ass off right there!
@11:26 😂
Japanese micro peening, lubricity, short stroke good thing I got my air pods in here at work 😂
ah yes, micro peening
If I'm lucky I'll get to micro peen my wife tonight.
I could listen to this man explain literally anything for hours. His enthusiasm and good attitude are positively refreshing and addictive.
Need more Mike in our life
agreed. love listening to people get way into the weeds when they are passionate about something like this
yeah and this is the most original comment I've ever read.
@@overtonesnteatime198 Thanks, I worked really hard on it for you!
Makes a big difference in life to find your niche, make decent income at it, and not be tormented by a manager every week.
When you start talking metallurgy it's magical. Great stuff.
And where did you go to school for metallurgical engineering? 😅
@TH-cam_Scientist ferris state university you fuck head.
@@TH-cam_Scientist Cal State Long Beach ME 35 years as an engineer for OEMs's also Motorsports Engineer and consultant for several factory race and privateer teams as well as several performance parts manufactures.
@@motoiq well then you're well aware of cryogenic treatments and martensitic start and finish temps but - where do you get the info on what alloys are used in these engines to even .. explain to me why you would cryo a tempered steel (nitrided?) crankshaft without a salt or lead bath austemper? Is that 5% of martensite going to matter on these alloys or is that literally just marketing?
I don't know if I have to say this or not but I obviously respect the hell out of ya man we obviously both have similar interests and whatnot - I'm not.. necessarily well okay I know it sounds like it over text but I really am not like arguing or trying to. Honestly I enjoy your videos but I couldn't get past the "we cryo our cranks" just because to me personally? With my knowledge which is not absolute (I'm sure we both forget stuff although everything I heard you say was correct but I did not finish the video because of the cryo deal).
Moto, I owe you an apology for not finishing the video because, well obviously being a doctor on the internet puts me in a unique position henceforth my name. I just fail to understand the purpose behind cryo treatment post heat treatment, unless it's mainly a marketing deal. We don't know each other, but I absolutely cannot stand "marketing" or "advertising" or "corporate America" to an extent that you would not believe, so seeing someone that I respect start saying oh ya well soak your metal in ln2 for 500$ when I.. work in said corporate America and as a hobby I make high carbide PM kitchen knives for professional chefs, so obviously I know what alloys benefit from cryogenic treatments and which do not. But I have no idea how you are identifying these alloys being used because I personally have xrf/XRD and it's not enough for that purpose. GC-MS-MS? That would not be cheap but I can't rule it out.
Also I'm incredibly sorry for freaking saying the school thing. That was a bit out of line. I hate people who go around with where they went to school. But since I did and I kinda know what I know, I am sorry but I did have to ask questions about it. I suppose I still do have questions about it.
I don't deal in the engine steels or anything like that nor do I know where to find out what is what. I'm in the austenitic/duplex alloy department for work, henceforth my fun hobby where I get to play with ZTA ceramics and metals.
Not that we'd want to cause of asperities grain growth yada yada but - is there a way to find out what alloy is being used so it can be re-heat treated or suchlike? I could say that would make a difference a little bit more than say just chilling to 196c. I work for US steel automotive research as a metallurgist fyi. I thought I posted that.
@@TH-cam_Scientist Alloys for the pistons, cranks, and rods are known from the manufacturers. 4340 is pretty common for rods and cranks, the crank is not SAE 4340 but the JIS more or less equivalent, I forget the number. The crank is nitrated. The pistons are 2618 which is pretty common for American forged pistons. 4032 used to be popular but with improvements in piston design has fallen out of favor lately. As for the carpenter alloy, it was in the valve manufacturer info, I forgot which carpenter alloy numbers were used but since I was on a one-take roll when shooting the video I just kept going to make post-production easier plus I didn't think our audience would care that much. Cryo is more wear-resistant on an engine's ferrous rubbing surfaces. I have seen this in engines many times. It is also well documented in tool steels. Personally, I don't think it has much value in nonferrous metals except maybe stress relief. Look up some of the white papers on google about cryo. There are many interesting ones. I started using it many years ago and it seems to have worthwhile results in our high-power engines. In one series we do engines for, our engines go about 2x longer in between refreshes compared to our competitors. In our race engines, the rings have very little wear even after a season of use. The gaps stay close to the same and the second compression ring isn't even fully seated across the face! Cryoing eliminated valve spring failure for us, even with aggressive roller cams. One of my rifles went from one MOA accuracy to an astounding 0.25 MOA! It was also less sensitive to ammo quality, shooting no worse than 1.5 MOA even with cheap ammo on a bad day. Good cryotreating isn't so much dipping in LN2 but slowly reducing the temp to LN2 temp, then slowly increasing the temp to close to the tempering point over 72 plus hours so it probably isn't just the cold but also the tempering doing something. It does help though and in some alloys the difference is shocking. I was skeptical at first and cautious in its application but now I use it a lot more. I have a technical question, How do you form and sharpen ZTA into a knife?
I’ve landed in the future and can report back that Markiplier finishes his engineering degree and develops a love of Subarus!
As an owner of a new gr86 and new to the flat motor world, your videos are great and I can’t wait to be a customer.
For informative purposes..
I paid 11k for my Rebuilt title 2016 WRX with 65k miles. I threw a bearing at 85k miles drove it until 100k ticking like a mf since I had a motor ready(I was getting -2FKL and -11FBK for a while cruising at under 15% throttle before it started to tick bad. But under WOT or stronger acceleration it would disappear and my AP would read zero sometimes a -2 or -4 on occasion which supposedly was acceptable) it was FBO minus manifold on a TMIC. I spent maybe 5-6kish for the upgrades? Was flex with lpfp/hpfp upgraded.
8K for a new P2P Closed deck Longblock 0 miles (costs 14k got lucky, I was going to buy a shortblock for 6k that same week) has everything done to it minus cams, 625+ rod bolt 1/2" headstuds etc
3k for STI Swap
2k for TR GTX29 turbo
7k for Misc parts & labor
1k for Ecutek software/tune
Limited to high mid 400 whp because of no secondary injection :c once I get that which is another 3kish I can do 510-520whp on my GTX29. I'll run what I have until end of year and get my secondary fueling and a BL58XR (Claims 770hp of airflow) biggest you can go stock location before you spend 6k+ on an ETS turbo kit.. or if I get lucky and find another ETS kit for 3k ill snag that. For those wondering, I am indeed broke as fuck and I finish concrete for a living.
I mean even our shop car in one of our last videos was built over 10 years. It's expensive!
I feel for ya , I spun a bearing on my 2015 wrx and planned to build it. This was in 2020 , it’s now sitting in my garage with iag stage 2 short block , stock port heads with gsc components. I bought an fp blue for it and am refusing to touch it til I have all the supporting parts for the turbo 🙃
I have Kelford 280 cams for sale if you are interested
I want to see this guy build his ultimate engine and put it into production
The level of knowledge, and the way to articulate what he does is totally amazing!!
I feel like I owe Mike my tuition money.
I love how this guy breaks stuff down. If you do too. Click that thumbs up. He deserves it
It's the small, almost magical , trial and error results that Mike shares in these videos that is priceless for anyone looking to do things the right way while minimizing the F***up potential that are priceless.
Yes, the basics are the same regardless of the engine or the goals, but those things that wait you when trying to figure out what works and what not are the gold nuggets
Thanks Mike and MotoIQ team for sharing!
Love the videos. An FA20 vs FA24 video would be awesome. I know a lot of people that are curious about the details and breakdown of the two and if/where the FA24 improved over the FA20.
They are almost the same motor. Not worth doing a separate video. Our last one mostly showed an FA24.
@@motoiq thanks, any idea if the connecting rods are any stronger in the FA24? I heard you say it was the Achilles Heel of the FA20, wondering if it’s the same story for the new WRX.
I think it's a bit stronger but unfortunately the new WRX isnt selling well so there are not many of those cars out. Also the engine is stronger than an EJ and they are not blowing up much.
The new wrx has straight rods if i recall. Would have to see.@@dewjustin
They are straight.
What an absolute gem of a human, and video.
I just got a new-to-me 2018 WRX-Sport Tech a few months back, and this is the detail I was hoping I'd be able to find when I went looking for it.
Awesome.
Put aig AOS, up grade radiator and oil pick, change oil 5k and clean air filter every 3k
I can't resist not to watch, It's pleasure and joy to listen and hope to build my FA-24 one day🙏🏼
After watching this video how can so many trash the DIT 2.0 FA. I get not liking the weak transmission of the WRX but the engine in this format is a little gem!
This is an absolutely amazing and comprehensive video!! My 2015 wrx limited has 169k miles now and I'm really thinking about doing a full overhaul before something fails. This video was far better than any other Subaru engine video I've ever seen!!!
This guys' videos are my therapy!! 😊
It’s easy to see that this gentleman grew up in a machine shop. A superbly detailed video! 👍🏼
you guys spliced in the oil pickup/pan segment seamlessly... only caught it when the silver subie was turned around lol
This was done over several weeks.
Clearly you've never worked in a shop, the cars love playing peek-a-boo with us mechanics 😊
@@motoiq lol I assumed, just saying it was unnoticeable save for the car being turned around. Thought it might have been a nod to see who's playing attention.
carpenter steel.. o yea buddy.. i have an CTS-XHP black talon 2. sick knife.
I don't like the blade shape, at least for a working knife. Still a badass knife.
Great video!
Some many positive things to say about how this presenter disseminates info I like on many different levels . Despite not being deep into understanding of engines I fully comprehended 99% of what was explained which shocked me . Excellent delivery , i could write a book on why . Subbing despite no need for services or any of the info on a deeper level but highly enjoyable to be able to have that level of uptake of info that I wouldnt expect to grasp at that level and the manner in which its done is excellent and if i was in need of services this video and presenters manner etc would grab me to dive deeper 100% . Excellent .
If half the aftermarket shops cared as much as he does... don't even get me started on Rotary Engine builders. It's not the engine that is unreliable, 99.5% of issues are bad tuners/builders...
This video helped me feel happy I didn't "upgrade" to an STI. Ive been think bout trading in for an STI but this made me decide not to. Im happy with my FA20 WRX. Bought it brand new and hope to keep it until gas is no longer a option in the future.
Fantastic video as always Mr Kojima! Thank you for your kind words on our engineering principals
love this guy, just looks so happy to be there
I would love to have you guys build me an FA20DIT for my 2017 VA chassis.
bro i love your subaru content. im building a crazy custom car. im thinking about using a new fa
This puts confidence back into building an FA. Thanks for the content once again.
Keep getting told the FA heads don't flow as much as the EJ, and restrict it from making power due to the water jackets being so close and can't port too much.
One of my dream builds has always been doing a twich charge, turbo and SC, and the FA has the bones for one of these builds.
Hopefully i can find someone as knowledgeable as you guys to help me with my build.
Thanks again for your work Mike 👍🏽
This was a really cool video and definitely made a lot of sense thank you great work.
Yyyaaaaayyy!!! A video on the FA!!
Christmas came real early this year. Thank you for the incredible information.
Great video Mike! Tons of very in-depth and very valuable build info. Love your passion and knowledge! Mind blown again!
Had no idea "super lubricious" was a word... I'm going to try to use that word in every interaction I have from now on, lol.
This guy passed Material Science
In fact I got an A in it!
Wish the parts was on the website. I've only found a couple. I'd buy the whole kit if it was on the website.
Thanks for this video, I got a built shortblock from Maperformance for my WRX and it’s damn near the exact same specs. It’s very reassuring to hear just how great the motor is! Great video👍🏽
FA24 WRX?
@@ruturaj47 no FA20DIT, he’s talking about the fa20 in this video
@@JoseMartinez-gy9eo gotcha, my bad, I thought previous gen was EJ and current is FA, it was a wrong assumption.
@@ruturaj47 no worries! There’s a built shortblock for the FA24 out now as well though
@@JoseMartinez-gy9eo thanks, that's good to hear, if engine on my car blows I would be looking for one 😂.
Another great video Mike. I would love to see the motor put together. Assembly video???
Love the fa20 content
I love my FA24, plenty of power, I see no need to change anything. To each his own though. Warranty be damned.
I got a 17 wrx. Fixing to mod it a little. Sounds like I won’t really need to do much to the engine for reliability
Great demonstration. Joined.
Hi Mike.
been looking around for someone to building my fa motor, i think i found them
My ej was 2 quarts low when it spun a king rod bearing, I’ll be lucky to ever get the car running again as the previous build was so expensive it’s ridiculously expensive to fix unless I just swap a stock engine in
See our Subaru play list for ways to prevent oil spitting.
Another great video! TY
For the head work: how much more cfm are we talking about over stock? Did you guys measure stock flow and compare the work you recommended here?
Love the emphasis on low lift flow and how much time is spent there. You've said this in your other videos and it makes so much sense!
We didn't flow bench it, people won't pay to have it done.
@@motoiq looking forward to seeing content of this engineer build running!
Thanks for sharing all the knowledge!
IAG must have discontinued the baffle for the FA... its not on their website
another great video 👍🇦🇺
Great video. Only thing that harmed my EJ207 was Subaru going with a plastic radiator drain plug that fails with heat cycling… rebuild due to overheating. At 174K it still had nitriding on the low side of the piston skirts!
You can't nitride aluminum.
@@motoiq I'm no metallurgist so what is the black coating on the OEM pistons?
Dry film lubricant
Why dont more companies make 4032 alloy pistons? Significantly higher silicon content, i assume that makes it much less able to thermal expand and its still a steong forged alloy.
It is more brittle
Lubricious. Nice.
“we get it about dead nuts”
Would you recommend doing the oil pick up and baffle when doing the IAG short block? I am on 110k miles on stock block and pushing 330 ish torque and plan on keeping it as a fun daily street car. My mechanic noticed I have an exhaust valve leak which is why I am moving forward with new block and will use the GCS valves.
Yes
i think that oil cover neck has to do with the oiling priority. They ain't going after RPMs so restricting the main oil galley cuts windage and can probably help cool the heads.
No the oil passage routing has to do with oiling priority.
Thanks! I thought that cover sent the oil off to each head and the mains kinda like a coolant manifold does. Figured it was like when turbo feed comes off the pressure sensor n gets a restrictor
No watch the video!
I have, promise lol! Rewatched 22:00 to 23:30 and 28:10 to 29:10 a whole bunch to boot. I think i don't understand fluid dynamics. I did fail that mess before having to rethink things. Few Nissans and GMs i've been deep into always seems like the main feed will be the smallest and the squirter feed the largest with heads in the middle. Seemed bad for performance so i've always figured they had an emissions reason behind it
I wish it was more feasible to swap my old EJ for an FA24.
EJ's are highly developed and there are fixes for all of their shortcomings, you can just build your EJ.
@motoiq the FA24 is overall more efficient and (stock against stock) makes more power everywhere except peak vs an EJ257
Who is going to bother to just swap a stock FA. It would be better and cheaper just to get a car with an FA.
@motoiq not willing to move on from my GC chassis. Oh well, maybe in another 10 years someone will have figured out an easy swap for the FA24 into the older chassis'
The electronics
can you do a video on the honda J series, whats interchangeable what isn't, how to build it for boost, how much you can make reliably on the stock drive train etc.
Probably not because I don't like that motor or swap.
I would like to see you breakdown an ez30
pls do a vid comparing FA20 vs FA24 ❣️
This is it, The 20 and 24 are almost the same engine.
These videos are why I didn’t go to college 😂
Would you guys be able to talk about what different turbo/induction noises are? What compressor surge sounds like vs the chirping of a BOV, diverter valve, lack thereof, etc. I got a diverter valve from Perrin and it’s making a lot of “turbo flutter” noise which I’m not sure if it’s due to it not properly blowing off air, or if it’s just the sound of the valve.
A quick check would be to disconnect it, the noise should change. Aslo see if your boost is lower, this would indicate that it is set too loose and blowing open.
May i know the part of that need for oil pan. The pick up tube and that flat plates? Thank you in advance sir. More watching here
We explain that in the video very carefully.
Is the oil pump cover on the FA24 also have a smaller hole versus the galley?
yes
Are you guys aware of the fa24 oil pressure drop issues on track days? This is even happening on stock grip setups
Yes, I think this baffle will help as some other things, oddly the 86 cup cars are ok, we had two of those motors so far and the oiling system is stock and the bearings are fine.
@@motoiqthank you very much for making this video 😊
The only cheap way to help that issue... oil accumulator... and do everything you can to keep the oil in the pan above the pick-up tube. Run almost a quart of oil over stock, and thicker oil...
Probably the IAG baffle is going to make a huge difference.
@@motoiq This x100. None of the cup guys are having any issues. None. And I know a couple of those guys and I guarantee they are pulling more g's than anyone reporting the issue. Little bird told me maybe the problem is where the "low oil pressure" is being measured. Something about a blind passage at the top of the engine....
Are yinz gonna do a video on this engine in the car? This engine would be cool in an older Impreza or crosstrek w a manual if money was no object 😂
No, it is going to it's owner.
Very excited! How do you guys feel about the aquamist system for meth injection on the car? I was thinking of using the BRZ port injection manifold to inject meth into each cylinder. Good idea for power? Or should I just sick to spraying pre intercooler like the grimmspeed top mount allows? Shooting for 400 hp on 93-94oct and meth.
Thanks so much for posting this video I love the info! And I love my FA20!
I use Aquamist on some of my own cars. I would like to see how it affects carbon buildup on the intake valves on DI engines in long term use but none of my personal cars are DI and turbo. My gut is that it will solve the issue completely.
Where can you get that IAG oil baffle? I cannot find it anywhere
From IAG
The noise from the HP fuel pump on e85 is called 'chirping' cause it sound like a bird chirping. I've never heard of it causing an issue or pump failure before though. Is the same HP fuel pump changeover applicable to NA FA20 fitted to the BRZ/GT86? Nostrum's website only refers to the FA20 WRX.
you could cut the video time in half if you edit out all the "umms."
make your own video
So would it generally be cheaper to get an EJ to 500hp? (taking the cost of the base engine itself into account) The cheapest FA would be the FA20D (or toyota 4U-GSE), but that has 12.5 compression ratio.
No, its probably cheaper to get an FA up to 500. No need to close deck it. Past this level, its about the same and an EJ is more developed and has a better oiling system for making bigger power numbers.
how much would something like this cost including the treatments to these parts
PS I LOVVVEEEEEE MOTOIQ AS WELL AS THE KNOWLEDGE MIKE SPITS OUT FOR US
looked this up for my gr86
See our video on Subaru engine costs
i'd love to hear your thoughts on the FA24D for the BRZ/GR86 - it seems you like the FA20, would like to hear a comparison.
It is almost the same motor.
How do you guys feel about egr and tgv deletes, emissions aside? Love the content. New subscriber and fa owner
Sure if you don't care about smog legality
@motoiq thank you for the reply. I currently live in a state that does not require emissions/smog testing but have found a lot of people going back and forth on its effectiveness since the stricter requirements have come about. I was more on your opinion if it's necessary or better than having them on an engine.
What is your opinion on the best engine oil pressure on stock FA20 engines? for track days and road and touge use. Greetings from Italy
Are Viton Valve seals that great? I went with oe valve seals for my engine. I was hearing a lot of the aftermarket valve seals failing
A lot of aftermarket seals are made of crap. A lot of OEM seals are viton too.
Think we can get a parts list? like which part numbers of whats going in this build?
Nope, that's why we make the big bucks. But seriously its not that hard to look it up.
What’s do you think about the je fsr pistons. I’m about to do a full build on my 2013 frs. I went with those and they don’t have quite a big bowl like those Manley do like you said. But these are what iag use. So idk? What do you think?
Also what was the brand on that dit pump?
Thanks in advance.
You’re the man! ❤️
JE is one of the best pistons, we said what the brand of the pump is in the video.
I’m curious if some of these parts are applicable to the N/A FA20s in the 86. I know they have similar oiling problems for track use.
yes
Mike, what are your thoughts on the piper cams? I pulled that data from one of your articles, did kelford provide a better option? Thanks for the information on the harmonics of the springs and cams. I did not know that.
For this particular engine, I didn't like the piper specs.
Are the pick-up and baffle pre-production pieces? I didn't think IAG made them for the FA series lol
Just came out
Are the BRZ and WRX Engine the same head castings?
They are very close
Is it frowned upon to get the outback wilderness for the different gear ratio and transmission cooler just to lower it to legacy height.
Probably not.
Can you please send me a link to purchase the oil baffle plate?
google is your friend
@@motoiq the reason I asked is because I only see an oil baffle and windage tray for EJ25 on IAG’s website.
The phone is your friend
@@motoiq ok I see now you said the baffle is new. I will email IAG.
I have a 106k miles on my Subaru BRZ 13 so it’s time for a timing belt any recommend belts or anything in the proses of doing it love your channel
Your engine has a timing chain so if you did good maintenance with the right SF spec oil it should be fine. If you haven't changed any of your belts you should, hoses too.
@@motoiq I just got a check engine light it says P0018 abs
@@GP-fc7jvlmaoo
Mike, just a question when doing engine balancing. Do you recommend balancing it with or without the flywheel and clutch assembled. Cause the machine shop here believes in doing it with the flywheel and clutch assembled
That is the best if possible.
How come I can't find the IAG oil baffles anywhere for a fa20 Wrx. I have a 2020 and can't find them anywhere??
They just came out, call them
How much power is that porting worth?
15 or so hp, it depends on a lot of other things.
Is it worth performing the oil pickup tube and galley mods for the street?
If your car is stock and never driven on the track, no.
Does IAG no longer make the baffle for the oil pan? Haven't been able to find it in a long time.
It's brand new, give them a call.
Can you do a series for an ae?
You mean an EA engine? No. No one builds those they are so old.
@@motoiq :D just finding a replacement waterpump for it was trouble...
How much did this cost in total?
Any thoughts on baxter anti drain oil adapter?
Doesn't hurt!
Thank you!
Next series fb 😅
not likely, even less interest in these engines.
For 400hp on the FA24 (GR86), what's the best things to strengthen for daily and track use? Planning to turbo as well to get those goals, so what would need to be done(from video seems like rods, piston heads would be a good start)? Have you guys swapped out the transmission or tested how much it can handle? Love the vid!
The transmission is very weak, when turboing even power in the mid 400 range can blow up the transmission in as little as one track session. For the rest of the motor, it is good to emulate this build and run both the IAG and killer B baffles and pickup tube.
@@motoiq Def heard that it’s a glass transmission, shame too since it feels so good to shift. What are some options or swaps?
There are kits for the Nissan CD009 trans which is pretty cheap.
@@motoiq thanks for the patience and effort for the replies! Last q, how much roughly would you say all the upgrades you recommend would cost
Probably something like 5k, less if you used a used transmission.
How much would you say this would cost?
I want to build my 2018 to keep it safe while I build it. (I’m at 315 whp and 348 tq)
I got plans to add a bigger turbo with a GS Fmic and an oil cooler where the top mount was, and AOS
Something like 9-12k depending on exactly what you want. Or 6k in labor and you add the parts cost.
Such a bad ass crank, and then they put glass rods in 😩
Are you talking about the OEM rods?
tgif
@15:40
is that the reason they loose oil pressure when performing hard right turns??
Rings have nothing to do with oil pressure.
Apologies i was referring to the oil pump cover passage way that feeds the main galley. Where you bore it out
Idk why the time stamp takes it to the ring portion 🤷♂️
Do you guys sell oil pump cover already bored out??
No but it's not hard to do it yourself.
is it worth? is it not cheaper and more reliable to swap ej25?
No the electronics for one. Stock to stock and FA is better than an EJ, see our last video on our channel on this.