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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ส.ค. 2024
- Today is the day we crack open the FA24 shortblock from the GR86 and figure where exactly all that metal came from! The FA24 is a little bit different than the previous gen FA20 and there are some pretty significant differences!
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So... who wants to put all this back together for me?
me :)
Never done it but I'd love to learn how lol
will you reimburse me for gas from VA? if so, I'll come help 🤪
I would love to learn as well. Only know how to do bolt ons from your videos with no prior experience.
I’ll give it a shot
Great work, showing the tear down, As an owner of a 22” Brz I’ve been very interested in the differences between the fa24 and fa20. This kind of content is really 👍 great
hope this engine is stronger. but not as easy to work on so far.
The FA24 has a special feature where it loses oil pressure on long right hand turns.
@@quintontim turns out its worse they die from heavy cornering....
@@lordzed83 well a nice oil pan will fix that.
@@quintontim What i find sad is that toyota/subaru dont fix blown up engines even tho its manufacturing fail.
Watching this sitting in the lobby of a Toyota dealership waiting for a service tech interview. Hell yeah dude
Me (who’s never even seen an engine outside of a car): Yes, I agree. That is an engine
Dude, I was just wondering how long til somebody would do a teardown on one of these! You rock! Edit - oh I forgot about the money shift. Sucks but at least it brought us this awesome video!
One of the most interesting videos so far. Cool to see how the engine comes apart.
The bearing thickness on the rods is just thick enough that when they are gone you will then have piston to cylinder head contact. Looks like the #3 piston is missing carbon on the top, so wouldn't surprise me if it hit the head. You can also check the bottom of the cylinder bore and see if the bottom of the piston made contact with the block. This contact is likely what broke the rod cap.
after watching the video, I knew it had to be cylinder 3 😂
The factory-filled engine oil contains extreme pressure additives that require heat and friction to chemically bond to the surfaces and the chemical bonding over "all friction surfaces" takes a long time at varying rpms and loads. These additives are vital during break-in and is why some owner's manuals specifically mention not to change oil early.
Kevin replaced the oil at 500 miles (see previous video) after running on a dyno with an OEM 0W20. At 500 miles, the chemical bonding is not complete yet. To make it worse, the OEM 0W20 is too thin to protect all moving parts. 0W20 can't even take sufficient loads on a timken test anyway. Typically, 0W20 is good for engines with an automatic transmission where the torque converter absorbs some of the stress coming from engine lug at low rpm. For engines with a manual transmission, 70% 0W20 30% 5W40 with low concentration extreme pressure additives provide a better lubrication throughout the engine life.
So when rebuilding the engine, use "break-in oils" and run for at least 5000 miles. The first 5 hours of operation should be with low loads and 3000-4000 rpm for the additives to penetrate into all moving parts, as well as driving down a steep descend with 2nd gear at high rpm to lube the cylinder wall. Then, at 3rd gear, "slowly" press the gas pedal all the way to 3/4 that applies loads on the engine at mid to high rpm. Repeat this with 4th and 5th gear to generate enough heat to complete the chemical bonding. That is everything for the engine break-in.
Switch to the Track Mode on your GR86 and monitor the engine oil temperature. Avoid going to >100C for an extended period of time without extreme pressure additives. Good luck.
Interesting to see the design of the con rods. It would be interesting to see you test the strength of one of the good ones vs one from a FA20D. Even if it isn’t incredibly scientific, something like a hydraulic press test would be very interesting imo.
Great vid and great content Kevin, keep it up. The BRZ/GR86 scene is definitely vibing with this series rn 🤘
Yooooo so underrated. Came to say this as well. I had a 18 WRX with the angled con rods in the FA20DIT. Was curious to see if my BRZs engine has the same and I'm glad it doesn't
Rod bearing eaten and the rod changed colors, almost impressive more material isn't missing from the rod tunnel lol.
Can you compare an FA20 to an FA24 in the same style as this video? I am an owner of a 22 WRX. It would be nice to see the differences. Also, can you please consider doing an oil pan drop on a 22 WRX to check the pick up for silicone? I'd like to see how the 22+ WRX are fairing compared to the 22+ BRZ GR86. Thanks!
good stuff kevin. time to balance and put in a hot cam(s), or bore it over and make a 2.475-2.5L FA25. may I never have to do a pistonoscopy on an FA engine or any subaru engine for that matter. While you had your crank out, you could have taken it for a walk 👟 🤔 good luck with the rebuild 🏁
Isn't cylinder 3 always a problem even in the previous gens
After tearing the engine apart what are your thoughts on how the new engine is built/engineered compared to the previous gen? Also, now that the engine has been completely torn down is the RTV issue a major concern?
I also agree with the question.
One thing I can notice is the con rods are straight on this fa24 whereas on the fa20 they are angled in an offset. This is a much stronger design and should be able to hold more boost.
Great question. There is a lot of conversation around the RTV in the FA24... Are you finding that Subaru has applied much more RTV than they did on the FA20?
@@mptboi7284yet here we are... commenting on a video of the "improved" FA24 with a rod failure.
@@jamesg8246 I mean this was a money shift... Most engines would end up with a similar failure i'd imagine.
Do you think the money-shift over-rev caused the broken rod cap, and that cause the spun bearing?
3, is that the rear passenger. I cannot remember. Called it, it is the one that most common had misfire issues on the first gen. How many oil ports for the crankshaft?
Deep grooves on bearings, cam lobes, and cylinder walls. Maybe a chunk out of the piston.
I know enough about engines to understand what this means, but what I don’t know is how you repair this?
That damage on the crank journals doesn’t appear reparable.. does this car need a whole new crank?
How/Why did the engine blow?
Great video; happily, I do not have to break down the engine, but I enjoyed knowing step by step how.
If anything it's good to know the piston rods returned to a conventional shape vs the lambchops.
Nice teardown video! First I've seen. Great content, keep it up!
Great camera work, very interesting video 👍
Hmmm oil temp issue?
Great explanation Kevin!
Thanks for making this video. I had some PTSD (post tinkering spun-bearing disorder) with flashback of rebuilding my EJ205! Beauty. Do you think this was due to mods or due to poor bearing quality or something else?
Amazing efforts Kevin
Can you do a FA24 assembly and installation video?
The rods look as strong as a k-series which is good, but i still havent seen an engine with such an overbuilt crankshaft as a k-series. Still really happy with the engine over the POS L-series in an SI.
You talking about the new si engine?
@@Mike696956 The 10th and 11 gen si, so yes. There is a video floating around comparing the internals of the l15 to a k20 and it is quite shocking how weak the engine is, bending rods at 240 tq.
@@molethan6138 ya i have herd some talk about that guys are saying its and economy engine with no business being in a sporty car its sad really
Awesome video. Very educational!
I wonder how much did it cost you? I have the same problem with my 2023 gr86
Really sucks this happened. But it is making good TH-cam content! There is a plus side. 😀
Is their a difference between the the fa 20 and fa 24 heads?
Because the rods weren't straight on the FA20, is that why the pistons can't be removed without splitting open the block?
The quality of the sealing job from the factory looks atrocious. Not only did they do a terrible job on the RTV sealing, but the oil pickup tube design is also unbelievably stupid in that it cannot be removed from under the car by removing the oil pan. I think this video just reinforces for me just how crap these engines are. Toyota needs to make their own high-revving I4 NA engine for the GR86.
It was always cyl 4 in the sti's. Ok now I'll watch
So just a short block away bringing the car back to life, time to give Subaru a call.
4:44 rule no.1: hammer nail, move finger
I think this is the first proper teardown video series on the FA24D up on TH-cam. Great work, Kevin. Nobody wants a money shift to happen, but hey, this is making the proverbial lemonade out of a pretty big lemon.
The rounded-out hex head bolts suck though. At least you won't have to reuse those
This engine is so clean.
Time to do a HKS upgrade and stroke it out to 2.5L!
Put it in the FRS!
I'd be curious to know if most have the #3 bearing spun or if it is all random....
I would guess that it all depends on the cycle of the pistons at the point you money shift it and which gets the least amount of cooling.
yes bobbyD i agree, i also can attest to the theory that the #3 bearing spins more often, it has happened to me and two ppl in my gr86 group. i have no idea why bcuz for the most part there is no way of shifting at the right moment to just spin the third bearing
@@jakeweber1075 heat is most likely the issue if # 3 is closest to the exhaust
Brutal, but thanks for sharing the teardown. These engines are so dumb.
Those engines look small. Are they smaller than inline 4's?
2. All in.
The engine will be fine as long as you don't drive fast on a right hand corner. Oil pressure drop turning right
M6 guess is 1, but it could possibly be 2, but also maybe 4, crazier then that though would be 3
Those rods look pretty damn wimpy. My initial plan was to supercharge mine. I dont trust it enough at this point. Bolt-ons and a flex fuel tune (when available) will likely be all it gets. I dont like the car enough to blow the engine and build a $15k race block.
i also loved the tear down. what i can not understand is why you people can not treat a damn good engine with respect. basic maintenance does not seem a priority over there. i have a vb wrx and it does seem destroying a car is good fun. all i can think of is ""more money than good sense"". now i wait for the backlash!
How do the cylinder walls get oil lubrication, is it just splash lubrication from the crankshaft turning or are there oil galleries in the con rods? Thanks.
I'm still trying to understand and wrap my head around the fact that how does a mechanically , perfectly , brand new engine gets damaged like this in just a short amount of time?
🤯😨😳
You over rev it well past redline on a bad shift lol. There's a reason there's a rev limiter 😅 the fact he was able to engage the gear means he must have slammed it in there pretty hard as there's a soft lockout when at higher speeds. Like how I can't get into first gear until the car is like under 15mph or so...but maybe it's only for 1st gear??
Money shift at a trackday. If you go back a few months on the channel's uploads Kevin says so himself. This video is basically part 4 of a series.
It's what makes a Subaru, a Subaru
I asked myself the same question. I guess like Rob165x says, the engine may have been over-reved above the red line to many times and/or not enough oil in it.
Do the long blocks or short blocks come fully assembled or in different bags and stuff that you have to put together
You just want ppl to comment for TH-cam algorithm.
Make sure the beads on rebuild is smaller than factory spec so you won't have RTV fall off and block oil.
Mod the block into closed deck, too. Ready to boost
Damn! That's a lot of damage.
What were you doing to damage the engine like this?
Money shift at the track
I think it will be the 3rd, its always the 3rd.
YEEEEESSSSS I'd knew it
thanks bro ...do you know what caused that bearing failure???
This seems pretty familiar to me since it's a bit like my EJ257 short block
Technically all the cylinders would be damaged with all that metal floating around
Do a crank run out test. Curious if you bent the crank as well.
Thanks for your review and information it's very important to me.
Is during the disassembly of the engine You saw where the RTV silicone pieces could come from and seal the pickup tube ?
In many videos I saw that the RTV silicone of the oil cap looks OK and no missing pieces...
is the thermostat vertical in the fa20 also? thats bad for air bubbles
Did you measure the bearing clearance while you had it out by any chance?
My question is what happens when the motor is locked up and you are not able to move the pistons into the right position in the access ports…
How easy would the FA24 fit in the GT86 '13 ? Asking for a friend :D
Has anyone noticed how thin the cylinder walls are compared to the fa20, I wonder how much boost it will be able to handle on stock internals.
Connecting rod bearings
Great video! What's the rod length on this engine?
Curious how high the REV has been to have this damage
Engine is toast
what do you think caused this
What exactly caused this? Low oil?
Every time I see a Subaru boxer engine, I remember to remind myself not to ever buy one.
A perfect example of when Engineers don't know when to quit. Yes they were able to design the engine but what a disaster it is to repair.
Cylinder 2. I had an old eclipse that threw a rod and it was cylinder 2 😂
It’s always cylinder 3 (coincidence) so that’s my best guess😂
So dumb question. How exactly does this happen? Is it defective materials? Or the bearings couldn’t handle that amount of heat? Just curious to know why this happens
Not a dumb question, I was suprised he didn't at least mention it this video, but someone else (not kevin) was driving it on the track and accidentally money shifted - meaning at high RPM, you mean to go from 3rd to 4th, but for whatever reason your arm goes stupid and you go to 2nd, and.. ahem.. fuck shit up. It's just a user error, and therfore would not be covered under warranty. Which is why Kevin gets to tear it down 😉
@@Treaxvour it was more likely that someone wanted to go from 5th to 4th or 6th to 4th, but went to 2nd instead.
To add...if the car is over 6000 rpm in 3rd gear and you accidentaly shift to 2nd you're going to bring the engine to well above 9000 rpm, well above redline (Higher gears are closer together but below third there's a larger gap). Redline being the max speed the engine can operate correctly (in this it's 7500rpm). If the cylinders suddenly start to pump so fast that the valves can't keep up the camshaft's timing can get messed up and in some vehicles the valves will slam into the pistons (depending on the design). I did a money shift once on my 22 BRZ and got lucky, my tires locked up but my engine was fine. But this can do all sorts of damage, to the clutch, driveshaft, transmission, because it'll lock up the whole drivetrain and the wheel drag sends a lot of shock to it (on rough dry surfaces it's worse), and there's the engine stress of the violent change, this was a worse case scenario lol. I'm kinda new to all this so I'm spitballing here.
Dang what happened that sucks
someone money shifted it on the track, NOT HIM THO SOMEONE ELSE!
Rear right cylinder
Cylinder 4. Probably oil starvation at 8k rpm
EJ257 (from type ra or my19-21). Do it.
All of this just because of RTV??
Oil pickup bolt location are not very clever. It was better in the previsous gen.
Cylinder 4
What causes this to happen?
It’s a shame that subi and Toyota cut corners in this way still a solid car but they really need to improve on this power train configuration
Cut corners? This engine was toast because of a money shift, so not Subaru's fault. Maybe you missed the earlier installments on the blue GR86
Cylinder 3
Found your problem, Cylinder 5-8 appear to have never been installed.
Actually it would be pretty cool to see an "FA30" 3.0-liter six-cylinder Boxer engine powering an 86/BRZ. Would have MOAH POWAH and still be naturally aspirated.
cylinder #4
2nd cyl
It's a shame they didn't just stick an inline 4 in this car. The Boxer really gives no benefit, just bad gas mileage, heavier, and more complicated.
Guessing cylinder 4
I'm betting cylinder #4
I'm gonna guess cylinder number 3 🎉
Swap a Honda K20 on it. Better aftermarket, proven reliability, might even be lighter, can handle 300+ hp no sweat.
Germany here, not an option, TÜV would say "NEIN!"
4
Did anyone else notice the EXCESSIVE RTV? Cmon Toyota.
Subaru..
mine was cylinder three after a mis-shift as well lol
The driver took too many right turns