When I was a kid I travelled from wood Green to Cockfosters alot for school. I remember 1 day I was travelling back to Wood Green and I always sat at front of train behind cab, the driver came through the door and asked if I wanted to sit in front. Up to Wood Green. Was fantastic. Can't remember his name as it was 90s. But I always remember that day ❤
😊……sounds cool! Good thing you didn’t mention his name though as it sounds like a breach of protocol. I wonder if we’ve met as I too used to do a similar route for school although it was a school called St D& St K. If you know, you know😊
What a grand thing it is to find a driver who makes detailed, lengthy videos of my lifetime local Underground line! Your videos Dale, have answered so many queries that I've had, having used this line for literally day in, day out for 27 years! I now finally figured what that beeping/alarm sound is (the dead man's handle alert) and why it's always followed by a hiss from the brakes whilst sat at a station, or what many of the sidings are called along the route. I thank you so much for all of this and am binge watching your videos! If only EVERY Underground line had someone like you, particularly the Bakerloo or Central line would be ones I'd love to see! Nonetheless, thank you, your efforts never go unnoticed!
I've mentioned before in a previous comment that it's been over 25 years since I last travelled on any of the underground lines, that's why I enjoy watching your videos because I find them fascinating as they show just much things have changed. 👍.
As an American who lived near London as a child, I always enjoy your videos. My very first ride on the tube was on the eastbound Piccadilly at Gloucester Road in Feb 1975. I can still clearly remember when the 1973 stock first entered service.
I have all Dale's Piccadilly Line videos in my collection which give me great pleasure to watch. His personality and style shines throughout and his knowledge is outstanding. It makes me understand how skilled a train operator's job is. I find looking for the next signal entertaining as I can't tell where they are positioned. I wanted to be a train driver when I was young but it never happened. The level of concentration required is immense. His explanation of SPAD really surprised me as it is not always the drivers fault. My thanks and appreciation to you, Dale. Regards, David
Brilliant video as always. One thing struck me this week - how much skill and judgement you need to drive these trains 😮 I had pre-conceptions (from where i know not) that it was a case of stop-go-stop but the amount of using your knowledge regarding speeds, gradients, gaps etc is mind blowing. Until the next one matey - thank you
Well done Dale, it explains some of the mysteries of the Tube to those of us who live in the countryside. Your employers must be pleased with your videos.
That was a great trip. Thank you for sharing that with us. The squealing wheels remind me of Boston's Green Line light rail line as it enters into Boyleston Street station located at the corner of Boyleston and Tremont Streets in Boston, MA. This is one of the tightest curves of any transit system and the speed of the curves is about 5 mph. The trams come to a near stop before negotiating the curve and there are greaser units to squirt grease on the rails to lubricate them. Whenever new equipment is ordered for the Green Line, the MBTA can't purchase off-the-shelf trams and has to customize them in order to fit the tunnel and curve. Some years ago, BREDA made the mistake of using bogies that were too large causing the test train to derail and get stuck causing millions in damages.
Hi Dale, as someone who loves tunder and lightning, it was great to see the other train leaving the platform and seeing the electricity from the shoes as it went away from Arnos Grove. Great video and commentary yet again.
Another excellent video, Dale. Thanks. It’s really interesting to see and hear “behind the scenes” information - like how you signal which road you’re on, and how you find out which platform you’re being directed onto. There must be someone organising everything like a giant train set. It’s fascinating.
Ok, so I’m thinking a collaboration of some sorts between you and Jago Hazzard would be really really good. You are both extremely good communicators, fantastic to listen to and knowledgeable. I’m just sewing the seeds👌😊
Great ride , good chat and spad info . Appreciate your descriptions , usually the squealing is tight gauge , if the tracks worn and been tightened until works , train pushing down , track pushing up . Looking forward to the next one 👍☕
The distant trains in the pipe come out well thanks Dale. I am always surprised that the signals are some on the left of the track, some on the right. I believe that, on the pre-grouping Great Eastern Railway, of which I make models, the signals are always to the left of the running line to which they refer. I don't know if that is still true for modern UK mainline trains.
Great trip, followed it on a map as you went along. Only been to London a couple of times in the sixties and seventies, the station names brought back memories.
Amazing insight! I’ve grown up in Arnos Grove and still commute from AG to Wood Green every day and I love looking out for any oddities about the place
south kensington has the natural history musuem, the sciene musuem and the london planetarium. I've been there a few times but only via the district line.
@@wickidmainah that could be why I couldn’t find any availability when I searched for it. Even though it said they still flew that route. Never mind. It would have been good fun though
Sat down with a cold beer to watch the latest vid from you. It’s alway good to watch your vids. Extremely interesting facts 5hat I didn’t know, I used the tube a lot in the 1980’s I remember the Jubilee line terminating at Charing Cross oh how times have changed❤😊
Another very enjoyable journey Dale ....thank you. You must have amazing eyesight to see signals and trains so far ahead. lol. Thanks again..all the best. p.s. Just noticed, big well done on reaching 20K subs. Awesome.
Hey Dale. Probably wouldn't work at the moment bcause the season is over, but I think a really good video would be one where Arsenal FC are playing at home. 2nd, I hope for you to be the operator on the first 24' Stock Passenger train and the last ever 73' Stock train Love your videos, Simon
Wheel squeal. A retired senior BR engineer explained it as:- in a curve the wheels on the outside have to travel further than those on the inside. The wheels are fixed on the axles, there is no differential, so the wheels have to slip slightly on the rail head. There is a steam railway near me with a tight curve on the station approach. You can clearly see the slip patterns on the railhead.
There's other reasons for squeal too, like wheels that are worn unevenly allowing the flange to rub, axles or rails that are on the narrow end of the allowed margin.
Cheers Dale, another good video, re camera battery I use a power bank plugged into my GoPro whilst recording a long run with a 256Gb SD card also have a spare SD card just incase needed they don't take up much room to carry around, giving more options.
50:38 Hi Dale, I believe the reason why some 73 stock units screech worse than others around bends is due to differring levels of wear on the side profile of the wheels as it is a wear part of the train.
Your train driving videos were a great find! Keep them coming please. Is the precise braking difficult for the inexperienced drivers? I trust your driving skill. Greetings from Finland.
With all the 'insider' information and technical tips you offer in your videos, I will soon be a fully qualified Piccalilli line driver without ever having set foot in the cab! LOL. 😅 Once again, top video my friend. Please keep them going and thank you. Stay safe. 😊
Yes King’s Cross was the station that had the big fire. It started by a cigarette getting dropped on some rubbish in the wooden escolators. Long before my time .
Have you done a video of you stopping at Turnham green? That would be interesting to see on the Piccadilly line. These are great videos, keep them coming!
What strikes me: The parts of the Piccadilly line where there is the most to see and the most interesting and diverse stuff happens are exactly those parts most people know the Piccadilly line of. Most people, especially tourists, know the line from the boring pipe part and they never got to see how complete a train line with all necessary worries it actually is.
Looking forward to the BA first class cabin review when you visit New York. Wouldn't it be great to go to Grand Central station and hook up with a MTA 'motorman' or conductor and film a ride on the NYC subway system.
Sorry me again I know its long way off but could you done a Video (if your on duty ) on what its like on Christmas Eve or New Year Eve in the mean time Thank-you for another Interesting Video on the Piccadilly Line
Such a fantastic video and thank you for sharing. Dumb question, while I know you are a great operator did you ever "overshoot" a station while you were learning? I never seen it happen in real life but I mess up on my sim game so much 😂😂
We have batteries for things like lights and PAs. We would have to let momentum carry us along to the next station subject to signals. I have had to coast from just out side Manor House to Turnpike Lane and luckily made it
Dale just an idea when you go to New York why don't you get in touch with the transport company what does the underground and over head trains in New York. And ask them if possible if you could film on one of there routes so we can see what it's like on there trains.
love your videos and ive got some qoestions what is the track rail voltage also where do you get your supply from ? the mains grid or do you have your own power supply
Can confidently say I'm addicted to these videos! Keep up the good work! How likely do you think it is you might get a run down the eastbound local between Northfields and Acton through the dive under? I know not many trains are scheduled there and signalling can always change though!
@@dalecharmantravels8057 Awesome! Out of interest (if you're able to say), why aren't trains split more evenly between the fast/local lines? Does it cause too much interference with District/Uxbridge services at Acton?
Enjoyed the video Dale! Just two quick questions, for the Piccadilly - Northen Line bypass at Kings Cross St Pancras, is that normally used for engineering works as i dont really remember and have you ever been down there and is this the same for the Piccadilly - Victoria Line crossover at Finsbury Park. Anyway, loved the videos and can't wait to see more. Thanks for explaining what happens if you miss a signal or miss a platform. Honestly your driving vids actually answered a lot of questions I have had e.g, i mostly know now about some of the random tracks coming out of tunnels here and there and now I mostly know where they go and mostly other things as well. etc, sorry for the long comment.
Those roads that lead to the northern and vic lines are not some thing as a normal driver I would use. Engineering trains will use them to move between lines. Test train operators may also use them to move trains around. Before COVID Northfields would often have a train from the northern or jubilee lines in the sidings at weekend. So they would use those sort of crossings
@@dalecharmantravels8057ah alr thanks. Also I think the Jubilee line uses the metropolitan line tracks to get to the pic line since I don’t think there is a tunnel bypass to get to the jubilee line from the pic line anywhere
When you departed Leicester Square the following signal was red and there was no yellow repeater before it. Are there many places where you can go straight from a green onto a red?
Yes. The repeaters are there if the signal is obscured or if it has had many instances of SPADs. So if you have good sighting distance to a signal, with that I mean if it was red would you have time to stop once you could see the signal then you don’t need a repeater. That’s the general idea. Of cause there are some signals that have good sighting distance and still have a repeater
Do you find that your eyes have to constantly adjust between the dark tubes and the brightly lit stations / open air? If so, is there any trick to it? 😎
The tunnel to the stations don’t effect me. However if it is very bright out then that can be an issue. To help with that turn the cab light on to adjust your vision. If you are coming out the tunnel then sunglasses as well
When I was a kid I travelled from wood Green to Cockfosters alot for school. I remember 1 day I was travelling back to Wood Green and I always sat at front of train behind cab, the driver came through the door and asked if I wanted to sit in front. Up to Wood Green. Was fantastic. Can't remember his name as it was 90s. But I always remember that day ❤
😊……sounds cool! Good thing you didn’t mention his name though as it sounds like a breach of protocol. I wonder if we’ve met as I too used to do a similar route for school although it was a school called St D& St K. If you know, you know😊
What a grand thing it is to find a driver who makes detailed, lengthy videos of my lifetime local Underground line! Your videos Dale, have answered so many queries that I've had, having used this line for literally day in, day out for 27 years! I now finally figured what that beeping/alarm sound is (the dead man's handle alert) and why it's always followed by a hiss from the brakes whilst sat at a station, or what many of the sidings are called along the route. I thank you so much for all of this and am binge watching your videos!
If only EVERY Underground line had someone like you, particularly the Bakerloo or Central line would be ones I'd love to see! Nonetheless, thank you, your efforts never go unnoticed!
Thank you for the comment
I've mentioned before in a previous comment that it's been over 25 years since I last travelled on any of the underground lines, that's why I enjoy watching your videos because I find them fascinating as they show just much things have changed. 👍.
As an American who lived near London as a child, I always enjoy your videos.
My very first ride on the tube was on the eastbound Piccadilly at Gloucester Road in Feb 1975.
I can still clearly remember when the 1973 stock first entered service.
I have all Dale's Piccadilly Line videos in my collection which give me great pleasure to watch. His personality and style shines throughout and his knowledge is outstanding. It makes me understand how skilled a train operator's job is. I find looking for the next signal entertaining as I can't tell where they are positioned. I wanted to be a train driver when I was young but it never happened. The level of concentration required is immense. His explanation of SPAD really surprised me as it is not always the drivers fault. My thanks and appreciation to you, Dale. Regards, David
Brilliant video as always.
One thing struck me this week - how much skill and judgement you need to drive these trains 😮
I had pre-conceptions (from where i know not) that it was a case of stop-go-stop but the amount of using your knowledge regarding speeds, gradients, gaps etc is mind blowing.
Until the next one matey - thank you
Well talked about Dale that was very interesting well DONE ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ 😊😊
another great video fantastic commentary ive learnt so much I will keep watching
It was wonderful cab ride.
Well done Dale, it explains some of the mysteries of the Tube to those of us who live in the countryside.
Your employers must be pleased with your videos.
They have never said any thing about them so I guess that’s good. If they was unhappy I am sure I would hear about it
There's my evening sorted.....
Well done Dale...great as ever
Great video Dale, very interesting information.
Absolutely love this video, these slower journey video's are very interesting. Cheers for this one Dale, look forward to the next one now
Thanks Dale for the "slower" journey. As you say, plenty of concentration needed. Always enjoy my tube rides and enjoy your time off work. 😊 👍
Love the view of the tunnel from the driver's POV
Also trains in Victoria Australia are not powered by the rails
Awesome video Dale
11:26 Nice view of the suicide pits. I haven’t noticed them from this view before.
Cheers Dale, another banger as always. Always makes me happy when one of these come out.
That was a great trip. Thank you for sharing that with us.
The squealing wheels remind me of Boston's Green Line light rail line as it enters into Boyleston Street station located at the corner of Boyleston and Tremont Streets in Boston, MA. This is one of the tightest curves of any transit system and the speed of the curves is about 5 mph. The trams come to a near stop before negotiating the curve and there are greaser units to squirt grease on the rails to lubricate them.
Whenever new equipment is ordered for the Green Line, the MBTA can't purchase off-the-shelf trams and has to customize them in order to fit the tunnel and curve. Some years ago, BREDA made the mistake of using bogies that were too large causing the test train to derail and get stuck causing millions in damages.
I have learnt so much about my journeys on the underground why the trains stop in the tunnel & the screeching sound in some areas . Thank you .
LOVED your insight into service disruption! Would love to see more! Fantastic as always!
I have a video coming up in a few weeks with long delays that I hope you will enjoy. So stay tuned
Hi Dale, as someone who loves tunder and lightning, it was great to see the other train leaving the platform and seeing the electricity from the shoes as it went away from Arnos Grove. Great video and commentary yet again.
Many thanks, Dale. Very interesting.
Another excellent video, Dale. Thanks.
It’s really interesting to see and hear “behind the scenes” information - like how you signal which road you’re on, and how you find out which platform you’re being directed onto. There must be someone organising everything like a giant train set. It’s fascinating.
Thanks Brian
Thanks Dale, the commentary was interesting, I learned a lot about SPADs.
I do enjoy watching your videos.
Ok, so I’m thinking a collaboration of some sorts between you and Jago Hazzard would be really really good. You are both extremely good communicators, fantastic to listen to and knowledgeable. I’m just sewing the seeds👌😊
Great ride , good chat and spad info . Appreciate your descriptions , usually the squealing is tight gauge , if the tracks worn and been tightened until works , train pushing down , track pushing up . Looking forward to the next one 👍☕
The distant trains in the pipe come out well thanks Dale. I am always surprised that the signals are some on the left of the track, some on the right. I believe that, on the pre-grouping Great Eastern Railway, of which I make models, the signals are always to the left of the running line to which they refer. I don't know if that is still true for modern UK mainline trains.
Great video, always interesting, the unusual running conditions a bonus.
I have never travelled onthe underground in London so I find your videos really interesting
Hi Dale, another interesting journey and commentary. Thanks for explaining, SPADS.
Thanks for Another really great video Dale, brilliant content keep up the good work 👌
Great trip, followed it on a map as you went along. Only been to London a couple of times in the sixties and seventies, the station names brought back memories.
Amazing insight! I’ve grown up in Arnos Grove and still commute from AG to Wood Green every day and I love looking out for any oddities about the place
loved this video especially your description of the signals and SPADS was another great video
I'll chalk this up to watch later this evening. Thanks again in advance for making the effort to record and publish these videos.
great video
Good stuff mate, keep them coming! 😄
south kensington has the natural history musuem, the sciene musuem and the london planetarium. I've been there a few times but only via the district line.
That quote does indeed bring up the clip, although I thought I remembered it being Jones who said it
Yet in the clip it's Mannering 😮
You are jolly and informative.
When you talked about you vacation plans, im a captain in boston harbor, and i gotta tell you i havnt heard the ny seaplane all summer
@@wickidmainah that could be why I couldn’t find any availability when I searched for it. Even though it said they still flew that route. Never mind. It would have been good fun though
Great video and informative as usual. Wish this route was on train sim world on the Xbox.
Sat down with a cold beer to watch the latest vid from you. It’s alway good to watch your vids. Extremely interesting facts 5hat I didn’t know, I used the tube a lot in the 1980’s I remember the Jubilee line terminating at Charing Cross oh how times have changed❤😊
Another very enjoyable journey Dale ....thank you. You must have amazing eyesight to see signals and trains so far ahead. lol. Thanks again..all the best. p.s. Just noticed, big well done on reaching 20K subs. Awesome.
Great video dale
Thanks again for a great video and learned some more about you job and the tubes' operations.. Till next time...
Love it ❤
Hey Dale. Probably wouldn't work at the moment bcause the season is over, but I think a really good video would be one where Arsenal FC are playing at home.
2nd, I hope for you to be the operator on the first 24' Stock Passenger train and the last ever 73' Stock train
Love your videos, Simon
Great video as always, very much enjoyed learning about the different type of SPAG you can have, though I'm sad to hear that bol' isn't one of them!!
Enjoyed watching
Another excellent one Dale - keep up the good work
Hi Dale, really enjoying these videos - work for SWR down in Wiltshire but always been fascinated with the underground as well!
Wheel squeal. A retired senior BR engineer explained it as:- in a curve the wheels on the outside have to travel further than those on the inside. The wheels are fixed on the axles, there is no differential, so the wheels have to slip slightly on the rail head. There is a steam railway near me with a tight curve on the station approach. You can clearly see the slip patterns on the railhead.
There's other reasons for squeal too, like wheels that are worn unevenly allowing the flange to rub, axles or rails that are on the narrow end of the allowed margin.
Thanks Dale for this video. I enjoyed it. Until the next one😁👍
Cheers Dale, another good video, re camera battery I use a power bank plugged into my GoPro whilst recording a long run with a 256Gb SD card also have a spare SD card just incase needed they don't take up much room to carry around, giving more options.
50:38 Hi Dale, I believe the reason why some 73 stock units screech worse than others around bends is due to differring levels of wear on the side profile of the wheels as it is a wear part of the train.
What does the white cross in the red placard mean I did enjoy the ride thank you❤
Thats a nice surprise, early day for me so I'm gonna enjoy this. 👍
Hope you enjoy
Really enjoying the videos.
Thanks for another great video!
Thank you for sharing this Dale
Another great video. Thank you Dale. Regards Michael from Germany
Always find your videos fascinating :)
I travel A lot from King’s Cross to Arnos Grove find it cool I do
Your train driving videos were a great find! Keep them coming please. Is the precise braking difficult for the inexperienced drivers? I trust your driving skill. Greetings from Finland.
Like every thing it becomes easier the more practice you get. Some people take to it quickly and some need more time
Another great video. Thanks Dale 👍
Keep up the good work
Awesome as always, Dale. Thank you.
With all the 'insider' information and technical tips you offer in your videos, I will soon be a fully qualified Piccalilli line driver without ever having set foot in the cab! LOL. 😅
Once again, top video my friend. Please keep them going and thank you. Stay safe. 😊
Brilliant once again
Great Video
Love it class
love these videos btw, keep them up
When you make your Stop at King Cross, St. Pancras is where on the King's Cross side is where the infamous fire on the tube
Yes King’s Cross was the station that had the big fire. It started by a cigarette getting dropped on some rubbish in the wooden escolators. Long before my time .
Have you done a video of you stopping at Turnham green? That would be interesting to see on the Piccadilly line. These are great videos, keep them coming!
I have done the east bound and the west bound one will be out in a couple of weeks or so
@@dalecharmantravels8057 great stuff 👍
You need to find a way to do a ride along video from the A/C/E lines on the New York subway!
What strikes me: The parts of the Piccadilly line where there is the most to see and the most interesting and diverse stuff happens are exactly those parts most people know the Piccadilly line of. Most people, especially tourists, know the line from the boring pipe part and they never got to see how complete a train line with all necessary worries it actually is.
Picturesque place , visit Costa Café nearby ...
Looking forward to the BA first class cabin review when you visit New York. Wouldn't it be great to go to Grand Central station and hook up with a MTA 'motorman' or conductor and film a ride on the NYC subway system.
I hope it should be a good trip. Although at the moment I can’t get a window seat 😢😢
Sorry me again I know its long way off but could you done a Video (if your on duty ) on what its like on Christmas Eve or New Year Eve in the mean time Thank-you for another Interesting Video on the Piccadilly Line
If I am working then yes I will film them
It shows up well on this video how close Convent garden and Leicester square are together.
Such a fantastic video and thank you for sharing. Dumb question, while I know you are a great operator did you ever "overshoot" a station while you were learning? I never seen it happen in real life but I mess up on my sim game so much 😂😂
No. I came close a few times while training
Will the new trains be ato?
If the power was to go while you where in the tunnel is there like a backup battery on the train to keep main controls working
We have batteries for things like lights and PAs. We would have to let momentum carry us along to the next station subject to signals. I have had to coast from just out side Manor House to Turnpike Lane and luckily made it
Hi Dale - do you know where the half-way point is in ‘the pipe’? I reckon it’s York Rd disused station.
In terms of stations it’s between Holborn and russel square. In terms of the actual length of the tunnel then no idea
14:33 is that why mainline stations have "OFF" signs?
Yes, it is
@@LUAu101 Ahh
Great commentary, always something new and interesting to hear on every run!
Hi Dale, was just wondering, are there any Female drivers?
There are yes
There's a sign about plunging at Morden station!
Dale just an idea when you go to New York why don't you get in touch with the transport company what does the underground and over head trains in New York. And ask them if possible if you could film on one of there routes so we can see what it's like on there trains.
love your videos and ive got some qoestions what is the track rail voltage also where do you get your supply from ? the mains grid or do you have your own power supply
We run on 640v DC. I believe the power comes direct from the grid
It’s not like here’s a train of you go as that’s how my duty manager was in retail 😂
Can confidently say I'm addicted to these videos! Keep up the good work! How likely do you think it is you might get a run down the eastbound local between Northfields and Acton through the dive under? I know not many trains are scheduled there and signalling can always change though!
Yes I will record it at some point. I don’t drive down there that often
@@dalecharmantravels8057 Awesome! Out of interest (if you're able to say), why aren't trains split more evenly between the fast/local lines? Does it cause too much interference with District/Uxbridge services at Acton?
Can you board the train from both sides at arnos Grove?
For a northerner, your educational video's are welcome, the met morning video's are very silent as Al pointed out.
Enjoyed the video Dale! Just two quick questions, for the Piccadilly - Northen Line bypass at Kings Cross St Pancras, is that normally used for engineering works as i dont really remember and have you ever been down there and is this the same for the Piccadilly - Victoria Line crossover at Finsbury Park. Anyway, loved the videos and can't wait to see more. Thanks for explaining what happens if you miss a signal or miss a platform. Honestly your driving vids actually answered a lot of questions I have had e.g, i mostly know now about some of the random tracks coming out of tunnels here and there and now I mostly know where they go and mostly other things as well. etc, sorry for the long comment.
Those roads that lead to the northern and vic lines are not some thing as a normal driver I would use. Engineering trains will use them to move between lines. Test train operators may also use them to move trains around. Before COVID Northfields would often have a train from the northern or jubilee lines in the sidings at weekend. So they would use those sort of crossings
@@dalecharmantravels8057ah alr thanks. Also I think the Jubilee line uses the metropolitan line tracks to get to the pic line since I don’t think there is a tunnel bypass to get to the jubilee line from the pic line anywhere
can I ask why on the tube it is called a corner, and on the overground lines it is called a curve?
When you departed Leicester Square the following signal was red and there was no yellow repeater before it. Are there many places where you can go straight from a green onto a red?
Yes. The repeaters are there if the signal is obscured or if it has had many instances of SPADs. So if you have good sighting distance to a signal, with that I mean if it was red would you have time to stop once you could see the signal then you don’t need a repeater. That’s the general idea. Of cause there are some signals that have good sighting distance and still have a repeater
@@dalecharmantravels8057
Cheers for the answer, that makes sense! It’s a bit different to someone used to ‘big railway’ signalling.
Do you find that your eyes have to constantly adjust between the dark tubes and the brightly lit stations / open air? If so, is there any trick to it? 😎
The tunnel to the stations don’t effect me. However if it is very bright out then that can be an issue. To help with that turn the cab light on to adjust your vision. If you are coming out the tunnel then sunglasses as well