If the Heathrow Airport southern railway is ever built, a line like this could be extended from Hounslow to Staines and terminate at Heathrow. I'd love to see a video covering that potential project sometime. As for a name, I'd call it the Middlesex line
@@Wildcard71 Not especially this one. It's just an example of the type of line that can be used, as this is the WLO, the topic at hand. The lines from Waterloo, Elizabeth Line extending to Staines, and services from Woking, Guildford, Basingstoke, and beyond could all use the connection. Building the Heathrow Southern Project unlocks so many options
There are other presentations that present some of those options. Not new, though. At least 15 years ago, I had a look at some of it from a consultancy perspective, as s railway signal engineer. At the time, one of the ideas was to use the old Waterloo International at one end, and a new junction beyond Staines towards the M25 overbridge towards Windsor, then parallel to the M25, and burrowing down into Heathrow. The terminal 5 station was originally built with enough space for two more platforms, with an empty space walled off at present, and an existing short tunnel bore beyond the existing terminus. Another concept thought about then was to extend out towards West Drayton from the existing two platforms, then with a connection to the GW Main Line. None of that went anyway, except onto the shelf somewhere!
Opening up freight lines for passenger service (re-opening lines which used to have passenger service) is so a good and relatively cheap way to better connect a région. The newly (re)opened Northumberland line between Newcastle and Ashington is a great example of that working.
The Northumberland Line has a far worse service pattern than the Tyne and Wear Metro. That should have been made into a third Tyne and Wear Metro line. The big single track section should have been double tracked and the train frequency should have been increased to match the standard of the other two Tyne and Wear Metro lines.
@DavidShepheard It's not going to part of the Tyne and Wear Metro, because it's not really in Tyne and Wear. Would we expect TfL to run a service that spends the majority of its time in say, Surrey?
@@DylanSargesson I suspect the actual reason it isn't part of the T&W Metro is because no one was going to stump up the cash for electrification (and being the mainline railway results in faster journeys). New York City runs the Metro North, like 75% of it isn't even in the State of NY and they're far more petty on borders than we are.
Brent Line is a very worthy suggestion for passing Brentford, Brent Cross Town at each end of the river and for wonderfully bringing attention to the river and it's massive (for London) 70sq mile catchment at 50mile length. Very topical and overdue to be bringing attention to our waterways. I hope the awareness brings more people to enjoy exploring river routes and pushing water companies to keep them clean.
Not after the worst performing Borough in North West London. The Reggae line of North and West London music might be more appropriate, or Flowers after Tommy Flowers who led the development of the Collosus computers at the GPO Dollis Hill/ Gladstone Park through which the new line will run.
We definitely don't want a boring name that gives us accurate information about it's geographic location or destinations! Please please let it at least be some kind of anti-colonial social justice snowflake attack against the state and the monarchy to make a statement. How about the Minorities Line? Or the Ricky Gervais line since he played David Brent and every body so loves Gervais. Or we could call it the Shariah line which would no doubt please the mayor.
Going by other names they should call it the Olympic line after the 2012 olympics that were nowhere near the stations on this line. Just like the Mildmay Hospital is on the Windrush line.
Makes sense. An important point is that these lines already exist for freight, including Kew Bridge/Brentford to South Acton. So their reinstatement for passengers would be reasonably inexpensive (by Network Rail standards). The new stations would be more expensive and take longer, but why not start now with a simple Feltham-Brentford-South Acton-Hendon 4tph service to get things started? Half a loaf is better than none and that would give improved journey opportunities and get people using the new route while the new stations are built. One thing to check is what stations are feasible for turnround without blocking existing services - maybe that's why Hounslow was chosen instead of Feltham (also additional movements across the flat crossings near Whitton).
This is such an interesting concept compared to other projects you've looked at in Sydney and Melbourne. Nearly every stop has an interchange, this project isn't about connecting new communities to rail, this is about interconnectivity of rail. Compare this to Sydney and Melbourne and very few of our projects are about interconnectivity, more about expanding the rail network into the sprawl. Thanks for the great video!
There needs to be some more usefulness for that great eyesore of a station. Most of us who live around here don’t know why they bothered to build it. If it actually connected with parts west then that might, just might, justify it being there. Over years, there’s been talk of connections to the west but nothing ever actually happened. There are tracks already there, but hardly ever used. Of course revamping these lines would cost but the essential ways through are there. Planners….get your act together. We now have this Brent Cross West station as a starting point. Make it more useful ❗️
If it gets extended to Feltham it culd provide interchange with Heathrow. Feltham used to be the National rail stop for the airport so there would definitely be a business case for it.
Some roads will either have to close or have bridges built to replace the level crossings at Acton Central and Bollo Lane. With that many trains per hour the gates will be shut all day.
The lack of proposed Picc line interchange is a ridiculous oversight. Same story with Elizabeth line and pretty much all existing Overground infrastructure. It's completely viable too
I think TFL should also takeover services. In particular south western services out of Waterloo to Chessington south, Shepperton, Hampton court, Sutton (these are already proposed to become part of Crossrail 2 one day so might as well take them over). Also would like to see the line out to Hayes taken over by the overground. Also the Greenfird Ealing shuttle currently operated by GWR should also be transferred to the Overground.
Greenford Shuttle isn't worth AC overhead and as such TFL have no stock for the line. Best bet is wait for the GWR 230 Battery unit. Testing is going well currently.
@@ethmister I feel TfL could revitalise the Greenford line with enough cash and some vision. Utilising the dual-voltage Overground stock, gaps in the Central line timetable, electrification and a bit of tinkering, extending services to West Ruislip should be more than doable. Running services to Old Oak Common (when it opens) would also be a game-changer, as would services to Brent Cross. And with some serious spending, building a connection to Uxbridge could also be possible.
@@ethmister They said that about the Suffragette Line formerly the Goblin, but when they electrified it and increased service frequency, a lot more people used it. If it became a branch of the Elizabeth Line and took some of the services that currently terminate at Paddington, I think a lot more people would use it.
It would massively increase operating costs for both the stripped down SWR and new TfL service compared to existing operations. The existing SWR operations are highly integrated, with shared train diagrams and staff diagrams which is much more efficient. So giving this to TfL would be a very bad proposition for the taxpayer and the travelling public. It is only when Crossrail 2 starts operations that transferring these services would make sense, because they would not be integrated anymore with existing SWR services/train diagrams/staff diagrams. If you look at lines that have been transferred so far to TfL, it is usually because these operations were sort of standalone within a TOC already and therefore easy and cheap to transfer.
Interesting video, I've been on the Dudding Hill Loop several times on enthusiasts' railtours and its high time it was reopened to passenger trains, it hasn't had those since 1902. I did suggest a route to TfL using this line a few years ago, incorporating the Greenford branch and the spur from the GWR main line up to Acton Wells and then running on from West Hampstead to Stratford using the spur up to the Barking line at Junction Road, thence along that to South Tottenham and then down the spur to the Lea Valley Line and finally on to Stratford. I got a reply from TfL with a whole plethora of reasons why this couldn't be done and they also stated that "there is already the Central Line between Greenford and Stratford". Silly me for not realising that. TfL's comment, of course, completely misses the point, my suggestion was not expecting people to go all the way from Greenford to Stratford but to fill in more of the gaps between the western and northern suburbs. As for those names that have been given to the Overground names, I refuse to call the Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside line by the dreadful name bestowed on it, for me it will always be the GOBLIN. All this talk about "making it easier for passengers to find their way around" and "highlighting London's history is nonsense, ever since the Overground started in 2007, I have never seen anyone wandering around wondering where on earth they are and most people just want to get to where they want to go to and are too busy yakking on those wretched mobiles to be bothered about London's history. But if the latest plan for a new Overground route from Hounslow to Hendon and West Hampstead has to have a name, the Dudding Hill Loop passes through Gladstone Park, so my suggestion would be the Gladstone line. As well as being named after the park, if TfL are so keen for people to have a history lesson when they are travelling, it will also be named after a former prime minister in Victorian times. David, London N8.
Maybe the line could be called the... Theroux line? Anyway, there should be an interchange to the Chiltern line at Neasden for services between West Ruislip and Marylebone if that were to ever become more regular, or spur off to Wembley stadium station assuming that line ever get electrified.
I would also like this to be extended from Brentford up the old freight line through to southall via a Piccadilly line connection and a station at three bridges
Alstom who built the Class 710s could manufacture more Class 710s including Class 710/1s for the Weaver Line to allow 8-Car service on the Chingford, Cheshunt and Enfield Town services. And more Class 710/3s for the West London Orbital route.
Great video about the new West London Orbital line. I would imagine if it had an extension in the South from Feltham to Staines serving Ashford just to make a perfect link, since The Elizabeth Line (aka Crossrail) will might be serving Staines when the Heathrow Southern Line (HSL) will be introduced.
I would love this, but I think it should run to Feltham and Feltham should get a Heathrow connection (either a shuttle to T4 or extend the Elizabeth Line from T4 underground to Feltham) AND I think they should extend the Windrush line so that existing services that terminate at Dalston Junction run to Highbury & Islington and those that currently terminate at Highbury & Islington should continue to West Hampstead. It would make orbital journeys from East to West more reliable and convenient.
Or in a similar vein the White line, shown in white on the map. Passengers must talk 19 to the dozen with random strangers about nothing of any consequence.
Thanks for this excellent video. As you point out, it will greatly improve public transport in the area - and for journeys going through it. It's good that you highlight all the connections with other lines; one missing link is with the District and Piccadilly lines, and it would be great to have an interchange there. It's about 400 yards south of South Acton: rather a short distance - but longer than from Mansion House to Cannon Street, or Cannon Street to Monument! There are several other interchanges missing from the existing Overground: in the south, at Brixton, Loughborough Junction, and where the Windrush lines go under the south eastern main lines; in the north, principally where the OG crosses the Highgate and Hampstead branches of the Northern line; in the east, where the Chingford Weaver line crosses the Stratford to Tottenham Hale line. These have the potential to achieve significant modal transfer of travel in outer London. It will be a job fitting in 8tph WLO with 4tph Mildmay at Acton Central, where there is also a level crossing to add to the fun, not to mention the freight services sharing the line for a short stretch near Acton Wells junction. Maybe, after the HS2 tunnels to Euston are completed, the TBMs could make an underground 'Acton bypass'. At some point a solution will be required for the level crossings in the Barnes/Mortlake area - and in the UK generally, wherever provision of better rail frequency is required: Motorways have usually been justified by travel time savings - so why not level crossing replacements?
I hope this happens. Just yesterday I was riding the Skytrain here in Vancouver and it is an absolutely fantastic way to get across the city because it is fast, driverless, during rush hour trains come every two minutes which is incredible, and because it is elevated, the views are fantastic. Much better than not seeing anything in a tunnel. I love London and would love to take an overground railway through one of the world's most iconic and scenic cities. Build it HIGH!! Bangkok is another that comes to mind in this regard, or Kuala Lumpur.
1:10 This is also true of the UK's wider transport infrastructure. I've long said that a major factor in any long-ish journey - no matter how far away it is - is whether you're heading directly towards or away from London
It would make sense to have one. Anyone would think that all of Heathrow's passengers are from the London area! Passengers on trains from the West and even the Midlands (probably via Oxford) could access Heathrow directly without having to travel into London, with all the hassle of changing trains, and saving time.
one line i would like to see is an extension of the Victoria line from Northumberland Park Depot to Cheshunt. Allow national rail trains currently running through there to go express and be above ground with the Victoria Line running on a new pair of ajacent tracks.
There are early plans to create a station at Northumberland Park, but improvements across the Victoria Line need to happen first. Cheshunt (and Broxbourne) is currently planned to be included on one of the Cross Rail 2 lines that will take over one of the Weaver Line routes this would allow for more trains to run on the other branches into Liverpool Street, the other northern route for Cross Rail 2 would be entirely new stemming off from Hackney heading further East, though that section still has to be decided.
This would make getting to Luton Airport easier by giving access to Brent Cross West, currently I have to take a 112 bus on the North Circ. to Staples Corner and the route can be a bit of a 'mare traffic wise depending on time of day.
The lines in question are significant freight lines in a national sense. By putting 8 trains an hour on the line it effectively removes all freight paths. You're looking at it from the point of view of London, we need to use rail as a national resource.
@@yourfriendlyneighbourhoods8202 8 trains per hour would get obstructed by slow freight trains going through junctions. Mixed traffic and flat junctions isn't a good combination.
Trains are able to run on the Victoria Line 90 seconds apart. Passenger trains that are seven and a half minutes apart are not a problem, so long as the route has double track and there are places for freight trains to be "parked" if they need to wait out the rush hour.
@@DavidShepheard I dont understand why you would compare a tube line with heavy rail to assert that some simple upgrades would do the job. The problem is that there are lines branching away without grade seperation so the theoretical line capacity is going to be a fraction of what you have on a tube line which doesnt have any interaction with other lines... Any freight train coming onto this part of the network will block multiple Overground paths because it will block junctions for a prolonged period of time. Unless you make the junctions grade separated, running 8 Overground trains per hour is going to be a fantasy. Even with a tube like signalling system, you won't get away from this fact. And parking these freight trains somewhere during the peak is basically sacrificing their paths. And then you are precisely at the point that was initially made, that freight paths with national importance are sacrifices for some local Overground trains that are useful for a relatively small group of passengers.
Where would you run such a service? Aside of the OBRY, there aren't really any abandoned tracks in the Toronto area. Most Toronto suburbs are already served by GO.
Knowing TfL, they'll probably go: "We've heard your feedback on the existing lines and their name recent name changes. Therefore we would like to make sure we like to ensure we do right by the people who use this new line by the Brent river. With that said, we would like to introduce you to the Lea Valley line! Calling at Brentford, Brent Park, Brent Cross, and Brent Town!"
Back in the day it was called the Silver Link, which we rechristened the Smack Link as all the junkies would use it to get to South Acton to score without paying. Fun times
Nightmare at Acton Central (which you mentioned as "Acton Town" rather misleadingly - that's on the Piccadilly). I lived near Shakespeare Rd a few years ago. It's a level crossing and already it's sometimes a real bottleneck for cars just with the London Overground (the old Silverlink). Eight more trains an hour would be unsustainable.
I heard somewhere that Third Rail is no longer a permitted upgrade. If true, I assume they'd opt to run diesel or bi-mode trains along the route instead up upgrading the whole thing to overhead wires. 🤔
3rd rail is not allowed for new lines, therefore it would either be dual mode overhead and 3rd rail trains (as several overground lines already use) Or potentially battery hybrid trains that can run on the non electrified but then charge up when back on the 3rd rail
Sorry, I’m a bit hard of hearing, but I could swear you called Isleworth isle-worth!!!! Please tell me I’m wrong and that you actually said eye-zel-werth
Where are the other platforms at kew bridge? from south acton the tracks can't connect with the current kew bridge station they curse to th eleft and join the track after the station heading towards barnes bridge so can't see how any connection is possible unless a new station is built
I looked on maps and couldn’t find anything, haven’t been to that station though. My guess is they’re on the other line that joins the WLO and are buried under vegetation
@@AmazinJ89 the new station will be Lionel Road on the North side of Brentford's stadium. That will go on to link with South Acton on the preexisting line. The Kew Bridge use would be as a terminus. Likely with a single platform to house a train while the driver changes ends. I'm not sure why the video mentions going back to four platforms as with the flats that have been built as part of the recent development there isn't much room left for a bigger station unless they knock a number of buildings down. I guess the value of the Express Tavern and the building next-door just shot up.....
@@petesj26 just been to the game at brentford, also had a look at google maps and read the TfL propasal. the only way i can see the kew bridge station connection being made is a tight turn straight after the new lionel road station one track to a single platform at kew bridge. all looks very tight but doable. content.tfl.gov.uk/wlo-strategic-narrative-oct-2021.pdf
Has TFL ever considered monorails? Much cheaper than new underground lines and could open up additional central locations by being placed above road infrastructure
And completely incompatible with anything else which is the killer.... There is also nothing preventing conventional rail lines (either overground or even underground) being built elevated in the same way for the same price or cheaper
I'm still waiting for a "Greater London orbital line" for the outer suburbs for either Zone 4 or Zone 6. Would make life so much easier between e.g. North West London & East London, South East London & West London, NW to West, etc. E.g. to go from Harrow to Houslow/Heathrow by any public transport (even by bus) it takes at least 1 hour & 12 mins+ for something that is 12 miles away by car! By train you have to go in to London, then change trains, and then back out! Look at Moscow they have frigging venn diagrams for a Metro network! 😅 Every Metro in the world should take notes from Moscow! Essentially, the "London Superloop" bus should be a train!
Thanks for this very interesting video. I hope this line will get built. Having terminii at Feltham, Hendon and Cricklewood, sounds like a really good idea for transport in west London. I wonder - any possible interchange with the proposed Crossrail 2 line?
Having lived in Isleworth, its not pronounced the way you said it (even though you'd think it was). Pronounced Eye zool worth. Yeah don't we just love the English language. Towcerster (pronounced toaster) Bicester (pronounces bisster). Great vid.
I doubt it will be named the Brent Line. There could be too many comparisons between David Brent and The Office. Shakespeare supposedly drank in the Three Pigeons pub in Brentford, so The Shakespeare Line is an option. However, groups of tourists from China or America might end up in Brentford rather than Stratford upon Avon, so perhaps it's not too practical. However in 1778 the same pub was struck by ball lightning, so maybe The Lightning Line? As for building it, who knows? With a basic new two-platform station costing upwards of £20 million to build on an existing line ( this was for Reading Green Park ) and electrification costing up to £2 million per kilometre of track, so £4 million per kilometre of double track, it could cost £ 750 million or more even though electrification ( which would be 25Kv overhead ) only needs to be extended until it meets third rail DC as trains would be the existing class 378 or 710 , that can operate on both systems, would be used. Is the money there? Or would it be done cheap and nasty with no new stations etc?
Yes, it's Europe's most congested city and one of it's richest. Any public transport investment pays itself back within a few short years simply in productivity gains. Ofc regional cities also need transport improvements but that doesn't mean London wouldn't choke if it didn't receive any either.
Yes. It has the least amount of trackage per capita of population. It also operates the 2 oldest types of oassenger train in public service at over 50 years old so clearly underinvested.
02:18 you forgot the Weaver Line from Liverpool Street to Enfield Town, Cheshunt and Chingford and the Lioness from Euston to Watford Junction. . The Windrush Lines last stop isn’t Dalston Junction it continues to Highbury & Islington it’s last stop is Highbury & Islington not Dalston Junction
Anything being developed in east London? We desperately need more around here. Could you do a video about the current and proposed road and train projects in the east?
Bakerloo extension proposal comes to mind. Silvertown tunnel will kick off a new superloop bus service also. The key thing with the west London orbital proposal is that everything needed to make it happen is there. It just needs upgrades and a few new stations. But this isn't happening yet. It's just a solid, capable idea.
I would be happy if they built less lines but had an incentive to run a decent service on the existing lines as the Goblin and Weaver cannot be called decent
St Pancras and London Bridge both have through trains on the Thameslink. Paddington and Liverpool St on the Elizabeth Line. Years back Ken Livingstone proposed a “Crossrail 3” be bored between Euston and Waterloo in a similar fashion.
Ach, your mispronunciation of Isleworth made one part of my brain very upset. It's worth remembering that every British place name pronunciation needs to looked up because there's about 10% to 20% chance that it's not at all pronounced how it's written ....
they should name it the lettuce line. i have no valid reasoning for this but trust me it should just be the lettuce line
That name is reserved for the secret Post Office tube
@@adamcetinkent Liz Truss line
Liney McLineface Line
And the meaning of the lettuce line is because a man ate a whole lettuce in 5 seconds in hounslow
The Lettuce in line.
If the Heathrow Airport southern railway is ever built, a line like this could be extended from Hounslow to Staines and terminate at Heathrow. I'd love to see a video covering that potential project sometime.
As for a name, I'd call it the Middlesex line
Middlesex is woke nonsense!
That leaves the question: Why especially this one?
@@Wildcard71 Not especially this one. It's just an example of the type of line that can be used, as this is the WLO, the topic at hand.
The lines from Waterloo, Elizabeth Line extending to Staines, and services from Woking, Guildford, Basingstoke, and beyond could all use the connection. Building the Heathrow Southern Project unlocks so many options
There are other presentations that present some of those options. Not new, though. At least 15 years ago, I had a look at some of it from a consultancy perspective, as s railway signal engineer. At the time, one of the ideas was to use the old Waterloo International at one end, and a new junction beyond Staines towards the M25 overbridge towards Windsor, then parallel to the M25, and burrowing down into Heathrow. The terminal 5 station was originally built with enough space for two more platforms, with an empty space walled off at present, and an existing short tunnel bore beyond the existing terminus. Another concept thought about then was to extend out towards West Drayton from the existing two platforms, then with a connection to the GW Main Line.
None of that went anyway, except onto the shelf somewhere!
Wasn’t Middlesex up North in Enfield?
Opening up freight lines for passenger service (re-opening lines which used to have passenger service) is so a good and relatively cheap way to better connect a région.
The newly (re)opened Northumberland line between Newcastle and Ashington is a great example of that working.
The Northumberland Line has a far worse service pattern than the Tyne and Wear Metro. That should have been made into a third Tyne and Wear Metro line. The big single track section should have been double tracked and the train frequency should have been increased to match the standard of the other two Tyne and Wear Metro lines.
@DavidShepheard It's not going to part of the Tyne and Wear Metro, because it's not really in Tyne and Wear.
Would we expect TfL to run a service that spends the majority of its time in say, Surrey?
@@DylanSargesson I suspect the actual reason it isn't part of the T&W Metro is because no one was going to stump up the cash for electrification (and being the mainline railway results in faster journeys). New York City runs the Metro North, like 75% of it isn't even in the State of NY and they're far more petty on borders than we are.
Brent Line is a very worthy suggestion for passing Brentford, Brent Cross Town at each end of the river and for wonderfully bringing attention to the river and it's massive (for London) 70sq mile catchment at 50mile length. Very topical and overdue to be bringing attention to our waterways. I hope the awareness brings more people to enjoy exploring river routes and pushing water companies to keep them clean.
you'd have to operate diesels on the line just so you could say they were Brent crewed... I'll see myself out
Fantastic line I forgot Brent has a connection to the River Brent.
As well Brent Cross and the river Brent too
Not after the worst performing Borough in North West London. The Reggae line of North and West London music might be more appropriate, or Flowers after Tommy Flowers who led the development of the Collosus computers at the GPO Dollis Hill/ Gladstone Park through which the new line will run.
We definitely don't want a boring name that gives us accurate information about it's geographic location or destinations! Please please let it at least be some kind of anti-colonial social justice snowflake attack against the state and the monarchy to make a statement. How about the Minorities Line? Or the Ricky Gervais line since he played David Brent and every body so loves Gervais. Or we could call it the Shariah line which would no doubt please the mayor.
2:43 "eye-sull-worth" actually
Beat me to it!
eye-zuhl-wurf for me. I'm from Feltham/Hounslow
This triggered my OCD more than the Acton mix up.
Mine too😂😂@@luke.stedman
beat me too
Going by other names they should call it the Olympic line after the 2012 olympics that were nowhere near the stations on this line. Just like the Mildmay Hospital is on the Windrush line.
Er, what map are you using? 😅
@@timgriggs8592 sounds appropriate as the new names are clearly wacky.
Mildmay Park, and the closed station of the same name, are between Canonbury and Dalston Kingsland.
Makes sense. An important point is that these lines already exist for freight, including Kew Bridge/Brentford to South Acton. So their reinstatement for passengers would be reasonably inexpensive (by Network Rail standards). The new stations would be more expensive and take longer, but why not start now with a simple Feltham-Brentford-South Acton-Hendon 4tph service to get things started? Half a loaf is better than none and that would give improved journey opportunities and get people using the new route while the new stations are built. One thing to check is what stations are feasible for turnround without blocking existing services - maybe that's why Hounslow was chosen instead of Feltham (also additional movements across the flat crossings near Whitton).
This is such an interesting concept compared to other projects you've looked at in Sydney and Melbourne. Nearly every stop has an interchange, this project isn't about connecting new communities to rail, this is about interconnectivity of rail. Compare this to Sydney and Melbourne and very few of our projects are about interconnectivity, more about expanding the rail network into the sprawl. Thanks for the great video!
Brent Cross West station has been built to accomodate this line, hopefully this will happen
There needs to be some more usefulness for that great eyesore of a station. Most of us who live around here don’t know why they bothered to build it. If it actually connected with parts west then that might, just might, justify it being there.
Over years, there’s been talk of connections to the west but nothing ever actually happened. There are tracks already there, but hardly ever used. Of course revamping these lines would cost but the essential ways through are there.
Planners….get your act together. We now have this Brent Cross West station as a starting point. Make it more useful ❗️
@@caroleast9636 it's very clear it was built because of the new development in the area
@@caroleast9636 eyesore of a a station? It's clearly one of the more attractive stations built over the past decade.
If this line is to call at Hendon on way to Brent Cross West, Hendon will need improvement..
@@PedroGeaquinto new development which was largely cancelled (the commercial element, at least).
If it gets extended to Feltham it culd provide interchange with Heathrow. Feltham used to be the National rail stop for the airport so there would definitely be a business case for it.
I really like this concept. A bit like a cross rail for West to north west London.
I live in Acton and I hope this gets built
Some roads will either have to close or have bridges built to replace the level crossings at Acton Central and Bollo Lane. With that many trains per hour the gates will be shut all day.
I live in acton too
I live in north acton and its crazy how many lines i have near me, also the damn elizabeth line station is 6 mins walk
The lack of proposed Picc line interchange is a ridiculous oversight. Same story with Elizabeth line and pretty much all existing Overground infrastructure. It's completely viable too
How would you propose doing that?
I think TFL should also takeover services. In particular south western services out of Waterloo to Chessington south, Shepperton, Hampton court, Sutton (these are already proposed to become part of Crossrail 2 one day so might as well take them over). Also would like to see the line out to Hayes taken over by the overground. Also the Greenfird Ealing shuttle currently operated by GWR should also be transferred to the Overground.
Greenford Shuttle isn't worth AC overhead and as such TFL have no stock for the line. Best bet is wait for the GWR 230 Battery unit. Testing is going well currently.
@@ethmister I feel TfL could revitalise the Greenford line with enough cash and some vision. Utilising the dual-voltage Overground stock, gaps in the Central line timetable, electrification and a bit of tinkering, extending services to West Ruislip should be more than doable. Running services to Old Oak Common (when it opens) would also be a game-changer, as would services to Brent Cross. And with some serious spending, building a connection to Uxbridge could also be possible.
@@ethmister They said that about the Suffragette Line formerly the Goblin, but when they electrified it and increased service frequency, a lot more people used it. If it became a branch of the Elizabeth Line and took some of the services that currently terminate at Paddington, I think a lot more people would use it.
It would massively increase operating costs for both the stripped down SWR and new TfL service compared to existing operations. The existing SWR operations are highly integrated, with shared train diagrams and staff diagrams which is much more efficient. So giving this to TfL would be a very bad proposition for the taxpayer and the travelling public. It is only when Crossrail 2 starts operations that transferring these services would make sense, because they would not be integrated anymore with existing SWR services/train diagrams/staff diagrams. If you look at lines that have been transferred so far to TfL, it is usually because these operations were sort of standalone within a TOC already and therefore easy and cheap to transfer.
@86pp73 I would rather extend the District line to West Ealing and Greenford as well as the line to Hayes and Chingford being replaced by the DLR!
Interesting video, I've been on the Dudding Hill Loop several times on enthusiasts' railtours and its high time it was reopened to passenger trains, it hasn't had those since 1902. I did suggest a route to TfL using this line a few years ago, incorporating the Greenford branch and the spur from the GWR main line up to Acton Wells and then running on from West Hampstead to Stratford using the spur up to the Barking line at Junction Road, thence along that to South Tottenham and then down the spur to the Lea Valley Line and finally on to Stratford. I got a reply from TfL with a whole plethora of reasons why this couldn't be done and they also stated that "there is already the Central Line between Greenford and Stratford". Silly me for not realising that. TfL's comment, of course, completely misses the point, my suggestion was not expecting people to go all the way from Greenford to Stratford but to fill in more of the gaps between the western and northern suburbs. As for those names that have been given to the Overground names, I refuse to call the Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside line by the dreadful name bestowed on it, for me it will always be the GOBLIN. All this talk about "making it easier for passengers to find their way around" and "highlighting London's history is nonsense, ever since the Overground started in 2007, I have never seen anyone wandering around wondering where on earth they are and most people just want to get to where they want to go to and are too busy yakking on those wretched mobiles to be bothered about London's history. But if the latest plan for a new Overground route from Hounslow to Hendon and West Hampstead has to have a name, the Dudding Hill Loop passes through Gladstone Park, so my suggestion would be the Gladstone line. As well as being named after the park, if TfL are so keen for people to have a history lesson when they are travelling, it will also be named after a former prime minister in Victorian times. David, London N8.
Maybe the line could be called the... Theroux line? Anyway, there should be an interchange to the Chiltern line at Neasden for services between West Ruislip and Marylebone if that were to ever become more regular, or spur off to Wembley stadium station assuming that line ever get electrified.
2:28 love this shot with the class 378, 801, 395, 387 & Eurostar all moving 😎
They should connect it to Heathrow airport! Then east Londoners can get to Heathrow without going through zone 1!
It runs through West though?
@@UCBirdi east londoners would be able to transfer to it from the mildmay which doesn't run through zone 1
@@michaely6524 yeah. I live on the east end of the central line, so I can just go to Stratford, take the mildmay and then switch to this line.
Do East Londoners ever go to Heathrow?😂
@@maltlickytexas Heathrow is the main airport in London. 72 million passengers yearly! Of course!
I would also like this to be extended from Brentford up the old freight line through to southall via a Piccadilly line connection and a station at three bridges
04:12 - The Watford Junction to East Croydon line operated by Southern would also stop at Old Oak Common
loving the london content!
I can't tell if he lives in London
@@jasonhaven7170Don't think he does cause he did pronounce isleworth wrong and got some of the station names wrong
They should call it the HS3
Can't wait for this Line to get introduced !!
They need to make a link between north and north west. For example from barnet/ Finchley to Wembley, harrow etc
Spot on. North and NW London are much closer than people realise (Neasden to Wood Green is 20 mins for example) but the transport links are awful.
Alstom who built the Class 710s could manufacture more Class 710s including Class 710/1s for the Weaver Line to allow 8-Car service on the Chingford, Cheshunt and Enfield Town services. And more Class 710/3s for the West London Orbital route.
Great video about the new West London Orbital line. I would imagine if it had an extension in the South from Feltham to Staines serving Ashford just to make a perfect link, since The Elizabeth Line (aka Crossrail) will might be serving Staines when the Heathrow Southern Line (HSL) will be introduced.
I would love this, but I think it should run to Feltham and Feltham should get a Heathrow connection (either a shuttle to T4 or extend the Elizabeth Line from T4 underground to Feltham) AND I think they should extend the Windrush line so that existing services that terminate at Dalston Junction run to Highbury & Islington and those that currently terminate at Highbury & Islington should continue to West Hampstead. It would make orbital journeys from East to West more reliable and convenient.
Just fyi…Isleworth is not pronounced isle like eye-l or aisle,but rather it’s like eye-zil-worth.
And if we call it the Isleworth Line it'll pay off for generations, just like Leicester Square!
In other words, the S isn't silent.
The mispronunciation is due to the use of AI in making this video.
I once saw a drug deal taking place in Hounslow, So in honour of that day I recommend we call it the Doinga line
Or in a similar vein the White line, shown in white on the map. Passengers must talk 19 to the dozen with random strangers about nothing of any consequence.
Only the one? You couldn't have been there very long at all! 😄
Thanks for this excellent video. As you point out, it will greatly improve public transport in the area - and for journeys going through it. It's good that you highlight all the connections with other lines; one missing link is with the District and Piccadilly lines, and it would be great to have an interchange there. It's about 400 yards south of South Acton: rather a short distance - but longer than from Mansion House to Cannon Street, or Cannon Street to Monument!
There are several other interchanges missing from the existing Overground: in the south, at Brixton, Loughborough Junction, and where the Windrush lines go under the south eastern main lines; in the north, principally where the OG crosses the Highgate and Hampstead branches of the Northern line; in the east, where the Chingford Weaver line crosses the Stratford to Tottenham Hale line. These have the potential to achieve significant modal transfer of travel in outer London.
It will be a job fitting in 8tph WLO with 4tph Mildmay at Acton Central, where there is also a level crossing to add to the fun, not to mention the freight services sharing the line for a short stretch near Acton Wells junction. Maybe, after the HS2 tunnels to Euston are completed, the TBMs could make an underground 'Acton bypass'. At some point a solution will be required for the level crossings in the Barnes/Mortlake area - and in the UK generally, wherever provision of better rail frequency is required: Motorways have usually been justified by travel time savings - so why not level crossing replacements?
I hope this happens. Just yesterday I was riding the Skytrain here in Vancouver and it is an absolutely fantastic way to get across the city because it is fast, driverless, during rush hour trains come every two minutes which is incredible, and because it is elevated, the views are fantastic. Much better than not seeing anything in a tunnel. I love London and would love to take an overground railway through one of the world's most iconic and scenic cities. Build it HIGH!! Bangkok is another that comes to mind in this regard, or Kuala Lumpur.
Overground here doesn't mean elevated, it just means not Underground. This line will almost entirely be at ground level.
@@LolBot720 I understand that - still more interesting to look out the window than when you are underground.
There isn't really much to build in this case, this is just a new route using infrastructure that has existed for a long time.
If there are many fish 🐟 and chip 🍟 shops at the areas around the stations then it should definitely be called the Fish and Chip line.
I wholeheartedly agree with your proposal. The two branches could then be the Fish and the Chip
1:10 This is also true of the UK's wider transport infrastructure. I've long said that a major factor in any long-ish journey - no matter how far away it is - is whether you're heading directly towards or away from London
How about a western approach to Heathrow?
It would make sense to have one. Anyone would think that all of Heathrow's passengers are from the London area! Passengers on trains from the West and even the Midlands (probably via Oxford) could access Heathrow directly without having to travel into London, with all the hassle of changing trains, and saving time.
@@CaseyJonesNumber1And lower the congestion on rail services in and out of London. Everyone would be a winner! 😊
Awesome video as always mr moose 🎉🎉🎉
Great video thanks Kyle. You are gorgeous with an awesome voice 😊
one line i would like to see is an extension of the Victoria line from Northumberland Park Depot to Cheshunt. Allow national rail trains currently running through there to go express and be above ground with the Victoria Line running on a new pair of ajacent tracks.
There are early plans to create a station at Northumberland Park, but improvements across the Victoria Line need to happen first.
Cheshunt (and Broxbourne) is currently planned to be included on one of the Cross Rail 2 lines that will take over one of the Weaver Line routes this would allow for more trains to run on the other branches into Liverpool Street, the other northern route for Cross Rail 2 would be entirely new stemming off from Hackney heading further East, though that section still has to be decided.
''Relitivly cheap and easy to do'' sorry? as I wipe tears from my eyes and giving me a good laugh to end the year on.
Funded all from his TH-cam earnings perhaps? 😄
This would make getting to Luton Airport easier by giving access to Brent Cross West, currently I have to take a 112 bus on the North Circ. to Staples Corner and the route can be a bit of a 'mare traffic wise depending on time of day.
Just finish the northern hights plan and extend london a bit, we need more houses more than a few scrubby fields.
The lines in question are significant freight lines in a national sense. By putting 8 trains an hour on the line it effectively removes all freight paths. You're looking at it from the point of view of London, we need to use rail as a national resource.
Wouldn’t it be possible to do both with good signaling and scheduling? I’m not an expert, as you can tell.
@@TheShortStoryof course it would, loads of lines already do. Not sure what the point of OP’s comment is.
@@yourfriendlyneighbourhoods8202 8 trains per hour would get obstructed by slow freight trains going through junctions. Mixed traffic and flat junctions isn't a good combination.
Trains are able to run on the Victoria Line 90 seconds apart. Passenger trains that are seven and a half minutes apart are not a problem, so long as the route has double track and there are places for freight trains to be "parked" if they need to wait out the rush hour.
@@DavidShepheard I dont understand why you would compare a tube line with heavy rail to assert that some simple upgrades would do the job. The problem is that there are lines branching away without grade seperation so the theoretical line capacity is going to be a fraction of what you have on a tube line which doesnt have any interaction with other lines... Any freight train coming onto this part of the network will block multiple Overground paths because it will block junctions for a prolonged period of time. Unless you make the junctions grade separated, running 8 Overground trains per hour is going to be a fantasy. Even with a tube like signalling system, you won't get away from this fact.
And parking these freight trains somewhere during the peak is basically sacrificing their paths. And then you are precisely at the point that was initially made, that freight paths with national importance are sacrifices for some local Overground trains that are useful for a relatively small group of passengers.
Been waiting for this for many years ....
They should name it the Silverlink line. It pays homage to London Overground’s past.
I did wonder about bus for your example, but the TfL app gives four buses, three changes, and 1 hour 31 minutes.
We need this in Ontario, Canada to service our Toronto suburbs. Looks like a great idea,
Where would you run such a service? Aside of the OBRY, there aren't really any abandoned tracks in the Toronto area. Most Toronto suburbs are already served by GO.
Knowing TfL, they'll probably go:
"We've heard your feedback on the existing lines and their name recent name changes. Therefore we would like to make sure we like to ensure we do right by the people who use this new line by the Brent river. With that said, we would like to introduce you to the Lea Valley line! Calling at Brentford, Brent Park, Brent Cross, and Brent Town!"
Back in the day it was called the Silver Link, which we rechristened the Smack Link as all the junkies would use it to get to South Acton to score without paying. Fun times
Aren't level crossings an issue, by limiting the frequency of services ?
Change the full official name to Orbital, West London Line. This produces an abbreviation of 'OWL LINE'.
It’s should be called the Bee Line as they serve the G-Tech Community Stadium
Yay! COYB!
I just wonder if there is any scope for the route to go beyond Hendon or West Hampstead.
Excellent video, though as a former local, I know that you pronounce the 'S' in Isleworth! x
Nightmare at Acton Central (which you mentioned as "Acton Town" rather misleadingly - that's on the Piccadilly). I lived near Shakespeare Rd a few years ago. It's a level crossing and already it's sometimes a real bottleneck for cars just with the London Overground (the old Silverlink). Eight more trains an hour would be unsustainable.
I heard somewhere that Third Rail is no longer a permitted upgrade. If true, I assume they'd opt to run diesel or bi-mode trains along the route instead up upgrading the whole thing to overhead wires. 🤔
3rd rail is not allowed for new lines, therefore it would either be dual mode overhead and 3rd rail trains (as several overground lines already use)
Or potentially battery hybrid trains that can run on the non electrified but then charge up when back on the 3rd rail
Windrush line actually starts from highbury and islington rather than dalston
London Southwest and South needs so much more mass transport.
Sorry, I’m a bit hard of hearing, but I could swear you called Isleworth isle-worth!!!! Please tell me I’m wrong and that you actually said eye-zel-werth
Indeed, and I'm sure he's never been anywhere near it either...
Can see crossrail 2 being built in the future
we need some sort of overground or underground line for SW London
Where are the other platforms at kew bridge? from south acton the tracks can't connect with the current kew bridge station they curse to th eleft and join the track after the station heading towards barnes bridge so can't see how any connection is possible unless a new station is built
I looked on maps and couldn’t find anything, haven’t been to that station though. My guess is they’re on the other line that joins the WLO and are buried under vegetation
@@AmazinJ89 the new station will be Lionel Road on the North side of Brentford's stadium. That will go on to link with South Acton on the preexisting line.
The Kew Bridge use would be as a terminus. Likely with a single platform to house a train while the driver changes ends.
I'm not sure why the video mentions going back to four platforms as with the flats that have been built as part of the recent development there isn't much room left for a bigger station unless they knock a number of buildings down. I guess the value of the Express Tavern and the building next-door just shot up.....
As for connections as the new Lionel Road station and Kew bridge will be about a minute walk from each other it's an out of station interchange.
The old platforms were on the Kew Curve.
@@petesj26 just been to the game at brentford, also had a look at google maps and read the TfL propasal. the only way i can see the kew bridge station connection being made is a tight turn straight after the new lionel road station one track to a single platform at kew bridge. all looks very tight but doable.
content.tfl.gov.uk/wlo-strategic-narrative-oct-2021.pdf
love your australia videos but this is so goooood
What is the chance of a new railway line that does not have at least one end in London Oxford or Cambridge?
the Northumberland line just opened this past week
Perhaps London Overground should consider getting more Class 710 trains including more Class 710/1s to run 8-Car service on the Weaver Line.
Has TFL ever considered monorails? Much cheaper than new underground lines and could open up additional central locations by being placed above road infrastructure
And completely incompatible with anything else which is the killer....
There is also nothing preventing conventional rail lines (either overground or even underground) being built elevated in the same way for the same price or cheaper
Maybe before adding more lines, tfl should sort out daily delays with the overground
The Dudding Hill line will not serve Old Oak Common, due the Acton Wells Junction being before the planned Old Oak Common lane site.
The northern terminus could be Elstree and Borehamwood (Zone 6) Otherwise, extend to St Albans City, where Thameslink often need to turnback.
No capacity on the Midland Main Line for that many extra trains. It'd go as far has Hendon max (the six tracks become four just north of there).
Please call the Mildmay Line it's proper name which is the North London Line.
The Mildmay Line trains run on the North London Line and also on the West London Line.
Hands off the metropolitan line. No more stops or interchanges please😁
I'm still waiting for a "Greater London orbital line" for the outer suburbs for either Zone 4 or Zone 6. Would make life so much easier between e.g. North West London & East London, South East London & West London, NW to West, etc.
E.g. to go from Harrow to Houslow/Heathrow by any public transport (even by bus) it takes at least 1 hour & 12 mins+ for something that is 12 miles away by car! By train you have to go in to London, then change trains, and then back out!
Look at Moscow they have frigging venn diagrams for a Metro network! 😅 Every Metro in the world should take notes from Moscow!
Essentially, the "London Superloop" bus should be a train!
Thanks for this very interesting video. I hope this line will get built. Having terminii at Feltham, Hendon and Cricklewood, sounds like a really good idea for transport in west London. I wonder - any possible interchange with the proposed Crossrail 2 line?
Ayle-worth?? Its I-sil-worth
also frlyham has a non stopcoach connection to heathrow airport.
Apparently the Weaver line is just a figment of my imagination!
Interesting, hope it goes ahead. FYI, you need to check in on the correct pronunciation of Isleworth.
Having lived in Isleworth, its not pronounced the way you said it (even though you'd think it was). Pronounced Eye zool worth. Yeah don't we just love the English language. Towcerster (pronounced toaster) Bicester (pronounces bisster). Great vid.
Hey ya.
How about this as a new line, which i essence is taking over a mainline
East croydon to norbury and then to london bridge
Chris
Thank you, but could ask you to pronouce Isleworth (eizelworth) correctly? I went to school there.
Isleworthian here, but wasn't good enough for IGS (as it once was...).
I doubt it will be named the Brent Line. There could be too many comparisons between David Brent and The Office.
Shakespeare supposedly drank in the Three Pigeons pub in Brentford, so The Shakespeare Line is an option. However, groups of tourists from China or America might end up in Brentford rather than Stratford upon Avon, so perhaps it's not too practical. However in 1778 the same pub was struck by ball lightning, so maybe The Lightning Line?
As for building it, who knows?
With a basic new two-platform station costing upwards of £20 million to build on an existing line ( this was for Reading Green Park ) and electrification costing up to £2 million per kilometre of track, so £4 million per kilometre of double track, it could cost £ 750 million or more even though electrification ( which would be 25Kv overhead ) only needs to be extended until it meets third rail DC as trains would be the existing class 378 or 710 , that can operate on both systems, would be used.
Is the money there? Or would it be done cheap and nasty with no new stations etc?
being Asian, I enjoy a good lamb biriyani, so could it be called the Lamb Biriyani line?
I'd prefer the Mutton Biriyani line but I'm open for comprimise
@ maybe after a few years, it can be renamed that?
@@djpeekay25it can be the Hoggett biryani line for a year or so in-between
@ 😂👌🏾
2:12 you forgot the Watford DC line
As it is going through felthan and hendon .. the cops and robbers line.
Who's wants to travel from Hounslow to Hendon though 😂
The journey the other way round isn't very desirable, seeing what Hounslow is like now! 😕
Goodies line as it's going to cricklewood
Niche
Goodie Goodie Yum Yum...
What about the Hownes line?
I don't think I've ever actually heard Isleworth pronounced like that xD
As an Isleworthian myself, I did have to laugh. Clearly, he's never been anywhere near the place! 😄
Haven't watched it yet, but let me guess... No plans for South London right?
Does London really need yet another railway line?
Yes, it's Europe's most congested city and one of it's richest. Any public transport investment pays itself back within a few short years simply in productivity gains. Ofc regional cities also need transport improvements but that doesn't mean London wouldn't choke if it didn't receive any either.
Yes. It has the least amount of trackage per capita of population. It also operates the 2 oldest types of oassenger train in public service at over 50 years old so clearly underinvested.
Yes.
The Brent Line? as in David Brent - The Office 🤣🤣
02:18 you forgot the Weaver Line from Liverpool Street to Enfield Town, Cheshunt and Chingford and the Lioness from Euston to Watford Junction. . The Windrush Lines last stop isn’t Dalston Junction it continues to Highbury & Islington it’s last stop is Highbury & Islington not Dalston Junction
The Weaver Line and Lioness Lines are railways that radiate out of Central London rather than lines that circle Central London.
@@DavidShepheard Fair play the Windrush Line travels in and out of Central London
Anything being developed in east London? We desperately need more around here. Could you do a video about the current and proposed road and train projects in the east?
Bakerloo extension proposal comes to mind. Silvertown tunnel will kick off a new superloop bus service also.
The key thing with the west London orbital proposal is that everything needed to make it happen is there. It just needs upgrades and a few new stations. But this isn't happening yet. It's just a solid, capable idea.
Bakerloo extension will likely happen but won’t be operational for at least another 15 years
DLR extension out towards Barking Riverside and Dagenham hopefully
Should go to Richmond which is a terminal
It would have to be diesel powered as freight lines aren't electrified and there's a ban on new 3rd rail electrification.
Put overhead wires in. Overground trains are very capable of switching between overhead and third rail.
It will see an extension of the OLE from Acton Central to Souty Acton on North London Line, and then OLE will run to Chiswick and Brentford.
Or Butlins Line
Should call it the Harry line as it seems to be going no-where.
I would be happy if they built less lines but had an incentive to run a decent service on the existing lines as the Goblin and Weaver cannot be called decent
Compared to what they once were, especially the Goblin, they are beyond decent
The biggest problem is that none of London's mainlinestations are straight through. There is no sense in the capital having dead end stations .
St Pancras and London Bridge both have through trains on the Thameslink. Paddington and Liverpool St on the Elizabeth Line.
Years back Ken Livingstone proposed a “Crossrail 3” be bored between Euston and Waterloo in a similar fashion.
oh great, more road works
Ach, your mispronunciation of Isleworth made one part of my brain very upset. It's worth remembering that every British place name pronunciation needs to looked up because there's about 10% to 20% chance that it's not at all pronounced how it's written ....
I live in isleworth it's pronounced I Sell worth.