Minor nitpick, Kirei didn't start training at ten, he *finished* the training at ten. He was a full blown Executor when he turned ten. In the translation of the Fate/Zero light novels I've been reading, Kirei also remarks that the reason who was so good as an Executor because he basically tortured himself. He said he said it was for "training" or "penance" and that it lead him to masochism. It had the side effect of "forging his body like iron" so he quickly climbed the ranks and no one could catch up to him.
The reason for me saying that was because in my research I found some conflicting information, so I went with what made more sense to me. Clearly it was still wrong, lol.
It's wierdly worded in the novels as well. In the translation I've been reading it's said he basically graduated college after he already became a executor. I trust the translation mostly because the type moon wiki remarked about the executor age as well. In the novel it mentions Kirei is born in 1967 and graduated from the Theological College of Marese St Ignacio in 1981 while skipping two grades and was also the student council president. Meaning he graduated at 14.
I love Kirei as a villain, the man is a friggin sociopath! Defective since birth and his father named him "Kirei" in hopes that he would be "beautiful". Heaven's feel made me love him so much also. I also appreciate the tsukihime reference ;)
He's not really a sociopath since he knows right from wrong, but you're right Heaven's Feel turns Kirei from pretty cool character into fucking GODLIKE
Shintai - it's quite sad when you think about it really. trying to be good but being literally incapable of it since you just weren't born with the ability to empathize? makes me appreciate that i wasn't born like that, horrible as it sounds
I wished fate/zero did a flashback ep of him instead of the rin ep. If they had done an episode about the relationship he had with his wife who died months before the start of fate/zero it would have cleared up his character for people.
+wac411 While I understand where you're coming from, I think it's important to understand their decision making in regards to the show. Kotomine's relationship with his wife reveals a great many things about him, showing that in the anime, especially too early in the show, would be revealing their hand far too early and would spoil his arc during the show. His arc is one of the most defining aspects of Fate/Zero, ruining it would be criminal. For a flashback to work, It would have to be late in the show, after Kotomine has started to accept himself for who he is. There's a problem with this, Kiritsugu's flashback also occurs in the second half of the show and was placed there for a specific reason. Two different flashbacks so close together would not work well, because it strays away from the main plot for too long.. So they had to make a decision and I think it was the right one. They decided to reveal more about Kiritsugu because he isn't explore much in the VN while Kotomine gets a lot of attention in the Heaven's Feel route.
your right. I didn't mean putting that ep in the same spot (ep10 i believe nor take up a whole ep. what I was thinking could be wrapped up as fast as the lancer flashback even ) as the rin one but it would like u said take people out of it because people have said even the Kiritsugu one took them out of the main story for too long. It seems like you may talk about that event in part 2, so I'd be looking forward to it
wac411 Actually I want to avoid talking about his wife until part 3, Whenever I make part 3, which is much further down the road given how much time/ research/ work it takes to make these, that is when I'll be delving into visual novel content. Parts 1 and 2 however I want to keep spoiler free of the VN so more people can enjoy them.
If you haven't read Heaven's Feel, do so, I already liked Kirei and he cemented himself as one of my fav characters after that. If you can't be bothered, then you'll have to wait untill the second or last movie and pray they're adapted well.
I love analyses like these. This is so exquisitely put together, intelligent and well-informed. I loved how I had to pause every so often to let the words really absorb. Needless to say, I have now subscribed to your channel.
Unfortunately, this channel is basically inactive. My current channel is the one I'm responding to you with, if you want to keep up to date please consider subscribing to this one instead. You might enjoy my 1 hour and 40 minute analysis on the anime School Days if you enjoyed this.
I just want to say you're a great person and hope you continue doing what you love. Your analysis of Kotomine Kirei is superb. I recently finished watching DEEN's adaptation of the Fate route, Zero, and UBW. And honestly, the Fate S/N released in 2006 wasn't that bad; I actually enjoyed it mainly because of the relationship Shirou had with Saber.
The Deen anime mostly gets hate for being a bad adaptation, which I would agree as it really distorts the content from the visual novel. That being said I think it's fine as it's own show and it probably gets more hate than it deserves. I am glad you enjoyed the analysis video!
He is my favorite character in Fate/Zero, I read about him from online forum. I watched the entire Fate series just to learn more about him. I m really happy when I find analysis about him:)
I am actually planning on remaking this video and including what was intended to be part 2. Not sure when I will get around to it since I have some other projects I am working on, but it will definitely happen and should turn out a lot better than this video.
Very well done and look forward to part 2. Would love to see more videos in this style, I know it takes a lot,of time and work but I think myself and many others would really appreciate it. I find Kiritsugu to be a great foil to Kirei and would love to hear your take on him, I find him to be quite fascinating as well even though he might be less complex character due to the fact that he didn't have as much background in the V/N. Saber and Shirou would be an interesting parallel discussion as well.
+DevilMay Pie Yeah a lot of people are asking me to do more vidoes for other Type Moon characters, which I understand, but my next analysis (aside from the other part for Kotomine) is going to be Casca from Berserk.
+DevilMay Pie i think shirou fits as a better foil to kirei since ultimate they're opposite but also the same since kerry was understand kirei but shirou in essence suffers from the same problems kirei does.
"The church killed everyone" (shows picture of one of the mages from the Mage Society) Just a nitpick. Good video though, gotta agree with most of your points.
The vast majority of this video is just recounting stuff stated outright in Fate/Zero. Towards the end you start theorizing about a shattered belief in God, Nature vs. Nurture, and that's fair there is some analysis there. But I really think if one is going to do an "in depth" character analysis you should really be focusing on the character's actions and words in the text itself, rather than obsessing over one part of the context (maybe that's for part 2...?). Your argument itself seems weak in many spots. In particular you could say the same nature vs. nurture stuff about most characters in Fate, and have it be far more relevant for peeps like Tokiomi, Kayneth or Shirou. It's a recurring theme that people's origins and upbringings deeply define who they are, yet they are still capable of major realignments. I'm not trying to shit on your vid, I just think there's a lot of room for improvement here. Had you condensed this down to 5-10 minutes your ideas would have been tighter, there'd be less dead weight.
That is completely untrue, most of what I talked about in the video was at most, only lightly touched on in Fate/Zero. To claim the vast majority of my video is simply "recounting" is a ridiculous thing to claim. The intention behind this video specifically was to focus on Kotomine's character before the events of Fate/Zero itself, my intention is to talk about his actions in Fate/Zero for part 2. How is my argument weak? It doesn't even make sense to apply nature vs nurture to those characters except for Shirou and that's because Shirou is thematically connected to Kotomine. I spent a considerable amount of time editing the script so there would be no filler. What dead weight are you talking about?
Kayneth states at the very start that your lineage is the most important thing about a Magus, Tokiome's bizarre attitudes about his children are a product of his upbringing in Magus culture twisting his genuine paternal instincts. There's no shortage of this stuff, almost everyone in both F/Z and F/SN is deeply affected by their upbringing and often how it clashes with their nature. As for dead weight... well for starters, there's about 60 seconds of wordless intro (more than a little excessive) and then at about 4-5 min in get into the analysis proper. I would call this not a great use of time. I'm not going to go through and pick out every instance, but I'll point out a few salient examples. 5:30 This is a good example of dead weight. The idea that young children don't know themselves very well doesn't need a tangent. You could've cut directly from saying Kotomine doesn't understand himself to reasons why it's more extraordinary than usual and we would've followed you just fine. More generally, around up to about 7:00 you spend a lot of time talking about how Kirei doesn't know what he wants, doesn't understand himself ect. But this is all well established in F/Z. This is the sort of thing I mean about "just recounting F/Z," because anyone who's seen a few episodes knows this. For those that haven't watched the show, they just need the briefest of citations, if any. 8:30-9:30 Again, a lot of time spent on setting and plot details, most of which are pretty clear from F/Z. I don't think you lose much if you cut directly from saying Kirei is an executor, directly to showing us what kind of work that is at 10:00. It would be evident that magic exists, and what kind of organization the Holy Church is, and what Kirei's life must have been like. It would have turned what was reiteration of plot of the flashback episodes, into a more active section of the video that pulled it's weight. You could also cut some material around the 12:30 mark, since it circles back to this executor business. Maybe cut the Tsukihime section, because while a nice illustration of the Church's brutality, it's rather tangential and interrupts the flow of your argument into the conclusion of the nurture section. There's plenty of other evidence of the Church's methods. Really, the business on the island is more than enough, since it's how F/Z establishes the same basic information. Overall, I'd say you might benefit from leveraging video as a medium more. One of the cool things about video analysis is that you can make a point or show evidence with just images. If you can do that with minimal or no narration, then you should because then you can spend your words on other things, thus producing a more efficient and effective video. This is a pretty good tool for compressing long videos into shorter ones. Anyways, I hope I don't come off as condescending, but those are a some of my (hopefully) constructive criticisms.
NickCybert The problem is that I was making the argument that Kotomine is literally the embodiment of the theme, the mage culture is just a supporting factor of the theme. I think complaining about the wordless intro is a nitpick and I felt that everything I said before the analysis proper was all information I felt was relevant, I have to disagree with you here. I like to be thorough, just saying that plainly and moving on doesn't sit well with me. You may find it excessive but I think it's important to really understand the concept behind something before you can get to the particulars. Again this may seem arbitrary to some since they may already understand these things but that's not the case for everyone and I don't think there's anything wrong with fleshing things out a bit for them. Fate/Zero only really touches on that with Kotomine, my intention was to delve deeper and to really explore why he is the way he is. Again I disagree. I think describing what I did as simply "recounting" is just dismissing what I actually did which was further explore his character. I feel like I am repeating myself but you keep insisting F/Z already makes some of this stuff clear but it doesn't. It may seem that way because you're clearly a fan and know what you're talking about, however the show really doesn't explain all of this stuff in that great a detail. Which is fine it's not really a problem in the show since it gets the basics out of the way and that's all you really need in order to enjoy it, however not everyone watching this is as dedicated a fan as we are and knows all of the ins and outs of the world building. I don't see an issue with fleshing this stuff out for those that haven't read the VN and understand some of this stuff in greater detail. This is more arguable than anything else, you say the Tsukihime part was too much, i see it as just finalizing how people should perceive the church. It may come off as excessive, I see it as just strengthening the argument. I know I am coming off as defensive but this is something I worked (and continue to with part 2) very long and hard on and it was something I made so not just Type-Moon fags like us to enjoy, I made it so more casual fans can dig it aswell and you're moreso criticizing that I am not catering to the hardcore fans. I get that recounting some stuff veterans are already familiar with can be redundant but I wanted to make sure this was enjoyable for most of the fans. Admittedly you did somewhat come off as condescending, particularly in your first comment, but it doesn't seem to be your intention and you came off more reasonable in this second comment. Despite my defensiveness I do appreciate you taking the time to point out your issues even if we don't necessarily;y see eye to eye because it shows you're clearly passionate about this. Well all I can say now is I hope you like part 2 more.
+NickCybert Dude, I agree with you in that Tokiomi represents that Nurture is stronger than nature, however Kirei does represent the idea that nature is stronger than nurture. In the visual novel, they go into depth about his personality, realization, and his inherent sadistic nature. Not everything has to be black and white, and that's the entire point of Fate/Zero. The creators aren't trying to say that different people are differently affected. This is mirrored with all the conflicts of ideologies in Fate/Zero. There's no clear answer for the nature vs. nurture question just like there isn't any clear answer in regards to ideologies. Some people embrace their nature, like Kotomine, and others reject it and embrace their nurture, like Tokiomi. I do agree that the bit about the "certain character" was a deviation to make us understand that the church is bad. I found it a bit tiring since I was here mostly for Kotomine, and I understand the importance of showing the cruelty of the church. However, this is the first part and I hope he goes into more detail about Kotomine in the 2nd part. The church bit could've been shortened with just the Tsukihime event since the topic revolves around Kotomine and not about the church's cruelty.
Excellent analysis. It always impressed me how a character literally born evil can have actual depth, most hacks just use it as lazy motivation for villains. How much will you be going into his relation to Angra Mainyu?
+Bio. Bait. I am not really gonna touch that, part 2 is going to focus on dissecting his character arc during Fate/Zero itself. If I ever make a part 3 going over stuff from the VN I'll talk about it, but I have no idea when I'll get around to that. Anyways I am glad you dug it!
This was really great! Thanks for doing this! I'm looking forward to part 2! I do really hope you decide to touch on his character in light of the events of Heaven's Feel at some point though. I feel that's where he is the most interesting, although that could just be me.
Kotomine is the best. Funnily enough he is the most like Shirou of any character. They both have things that they want to do, and nothing can convince them that they are wrong.
Its good work but I feel something is missing. Is kotomine's nature positive to get in contradiction with the nurtur he got ? Or is it evils being piled up ?
@@DanielSantosAnalysis This is what is off to me. The church is not good. To be nurtured take an environment not just some lectures. You can't go :"all life is sacred" and run an assasination guild on the side and be taken seriously. Child aren't blind nor deaf
@@yuuyou3785 Pretty sure the church never said "all life is sacred" especially since they think certain creatures are unholy abominations that go against god. Remember, this is a fictional religion, it's not 1 to 1 like Christianity or Catholicism. Anyways I think what you're missing is that there are specific teachings that go against how Kotomine feels, that's where the conflict is. It's less about "good vs evil" its more about being taught to act a certain way, but that goes against what he naturally feels.
@@DanielSantosAnalysis Daniel Santos I know they never said "all life is sacred". Its the teaching of his father and there influence on him that I don't see completing the argument nature vs nurtur. He accepted the teaching and the idea that he is different from people around him but it seem like he is just tormented by the fact that he is different. His nature and his nurturing aren't incompatible but the fact that he can't feel the same way as others torment him and seem to stop him from enjoying stuff. I just don't see the nature vs nurtur place in all of this
@@yuuyou3785 Except Kotomine specifically asked God why he is the way he is. This is a conflict between how he feels and what he was taught. It's not just that he's different from other people, but how he feels goes against God's teachings. In Fate/Zero when he fully accepts himself, he even laughs at how God could've created something like him and that he came from someone like his father who he saw as a good man. Kotomine knows what he *should* be like based on what his father taught him and what the church taught him and the way he feels goes against all that. All of this ties into nature vs nurture.
He's so twisted n fucked up in many ways which makes him one of my favourite villain! Another really good villain in my opinion is Shogo Makishima from Psycho Pass ( season one). You should check it out if u haven't seen it. Hey it would be cool If u can make ur top anime villain vid! Anyway I will be looking forward to part two.
+Zezo J I've seen Psycho-Pass, I thought it was good for the most part, although I wasn't a fan of the direction the show went in the last 3rd or so. I don't really do top lists to be honest, I'd actually rather just dedicate a video to those villains that I like and explain why they're so good.
Thank you, I know it's only part one but I. Am extremely hapy to finally see this (I know I'm late) and hear the awesome analysis. I actually look at Kotomine in a different, more understanding way. I look forward to the next part, take as long as you want, because part one is already much better than I anticipated. On a side note, I notice you're playing Bloodborne, it's one of my favorite games and it would be an honor to play with you. I would also completely understand if you can't. Anyways, thanks again for making this video and for the ones to come. P.S. my PSN is Brottosai.
+Carl Maggio It was really my intention from the get go with this analysis to help people see him differently and understand him more deeply. Hearing you say that really makes me feel like I succeeded in doing that. I would play with you but sadly I don't have PS+ so I can't play online. I'll add you on PSN though.
Kinoko Nasu was integral to the creative process of Fate/Zero, whether you want to admit it or not, Fate/Zero is the way it is because of him., meaning he does indeed have talent Also, Type Moon is the name of the company, not the name of the creator.
@@TheAnimeRoom Your probably right, though I still feel that fate zero has more meaningful things to say than their other projects. Though i’ve only seen zero and ubw, so i’m probably wrong. Also had no idea that type moon was a company, that makes a lot more sense.
Really great video I feel like i learned a lot more about Kotomine Kirei, Will you be doing an in-deoth for Shirou Sakura Illya Shiki Asagami and others or not? also there is a Fate/Stay Night Heaven's Feel Manga so far I really like it.
+NarutoBleachPS3Fan The next analysis I plan on doing (aside from the next part for Kotomine) is actually Casca from Berserk, I haven't thought about doing any videos for the characters you mentioned, I'd rather not only do Type-Moon characters, I don't want to be known as simply "that Type Moon guy" lol.
patrick watkins Of course, Kotomine isn't going to be the only Type Moon character I'll ever cover, I just want to make sure these videos are more diverse.
TheAnimeRoom I see that's cool with me i really thought this was so good for the longest time i was wounder why i liked Kotomine so much (until Heaven's Feel) please keep doing videos like these it's so cool. lol yeah i understand if you do for more analysis for Type-Moon and other animes/VN like The Frult Of Grisaia or so i would love to see the videos i find these great (sorry for sounding like a stupid fanboy who won't shut up lol)
Kotomine lives in a world where citing the literal world of God has baptismal powers and is able to banish magical creatures, so I'd say you didn't have to spend time questioning his beliefs. After all, in that universe you have LITERAL FUCKING PROOF of good old YHWH existing in some way or form. Kirei's main problem lies in his lack of understanding of why God would allow a creature so intrinsically evil (i.e deriving pleasure only from others' suffering) to exist, and that's also why he wants to protect Angra Mainyu (said to be a being of pure evil in whom Kotomine sees himself) since he firmly believes that no soul can be judged before it's even born. He also sees himself as defective and wants to make sense of what his ultimate purpose is, which is where the whole existentialist stuff comes in. That's the basic gist of it, but it's explained even further in the visual novel itself. Great video though, I don't know if you're still planning on making part 2, but Kirei's probably THE most complex character in all of Fate, and it's a bit sad that most people think of him as a shallow edgelord due to routes where he wasn't as fleshed out, so it's always fun to see someone trying to explain his motivations.
I can see why you might find it unnecessary for me to talk about his beliefs, but it was more about explaining his thought process and why he turned out the way he did. I also lament that people dismiss him as a shallow character which is why I made the video. Part 2 is still going to be made but I am not 100% sure when. I feel my writing has improved a good deal since this video though so when it does come out I feel confident in saying it will be much better.
I haven't "stopped" the channel, I am just busy with real life stuff and videos like these take a long time to make. The script for this video alone was extremely arduous to put together because of how rigorous my editing process was and even then I was still not 100% happy with the end product (although still pretty proud) I plan on making part 2 when I can, but when that will happen I am not totally sure.
When I made this part 1 I was completely burnt out. I felt like I had Kotomine himself running around in my brain for a month. So I put off the second part for awhile and I've been progressing on it slowly. bit by bit It will come out eventually when I've cleaned my plate of other projects and I can give it my full focus. I aim for part 2 to be a longer and more detailed video than this part 1. In the meantime I am sorry for the wait and hopefully it will be worth said wait.
+Kenryuusaki Dextroyer There's plenty of ground to cover concerning his arc in Fate/Zero. Plus I did mention that I might go over HF sometime later, just not anytime soon since that would take awhile.
embraceyourinner tophat Why is it so weird for me to want to talk about Casca? I think she's misunderstood and there's a lot to talk about concerning her character. She' has a lot more depth than people realize and I want to show that.
+embraceyourinner tophat I don't think it's just there "for the sake of parallel" or the fact that Kirei being the final boss of the entire series is only coincidental, on the contrary. Of all the people in the world, the only one who truly "understood" Kirei was Shirou after all (and vice versa). It's easy to misinterpret his character in Fate/Zero or even to dismiss his whole evolution as mere background noise which is why I think that ultimately, HF is where we truly understand and see his character shine.
embraceyourinner tophat Tbh, the anime isn't to blame for that. Overall, it still did a hell of a good job at adapting the source material and even managed to tone down some of the Butcher's tendencies to go overboard with his "edgyness": Here's a passage from the F/Z LN: "Emiya Kiritsugu’s right hand continued its work of writing while his left hand mechanically shoveled his nutrition - hamburgers from a fast food restaurant he bought while investigating - into his mouth. For nine years, Emiya Kiritsugu had eaten at the table of the Einsberns, who were merely a hair removed from royalty themselves. He had grown tired of the cuisine. This fast food, filled with the sense of slaughter, was more suited to his tastes. Being able to eat without interrupting one’s words or thoughts was better than anything, no matter how you looked at it." Try reading that with a straight face...
hey shintai could i ask you to do saber, shirou/archer I want to know more of their character so i can help my friend like the show better. Right now he is watching ubw and he said's its bad b/c it doesn't make any sense on some of the things that happen unlike other people who notice or watched fate zero. Thank u for reading this
like i had them try fate zero they did not like a women being called a king. Also i think the deen adaptation is too old and outdated; so they wouldn't really like that show either
UFOTable is teasing us with a "maybe." It might be Alba, but it could just as easily not be. And the moment of "is that something from Kara no Kyoukai?" Might have been the intention rather than providing any sort of definitive connection.
I am planning something bigger, gonna do a remake of the content of part 1, incorprate what was supposed to be part 2 and release it as one big video. Hopefully it turns out well. 👍
Tnx for awsering. Can´t wait for the big video. Kirei has been a character who always intrgued me, and i´m surprised that there were no analysis on him.
Technically it's not an "anime-only" analysis, if you watched the video you can clearly see I am using my knowledge of the VN to explain different elements of his character. All I said was I may or may not specifically cover his character's action in the Heaven's Feel arc. There wouldn't be much point in analyzing him in the Fate or UBW routes since not much goes with him either of them. All I meant was that people who have only seen the anime could enjoy the analysis.
i am not the Shirou Kotomine from fate apocrypha, i am from fate alternate night, the one in apocrypha is another person who uses Shirou Kotomine as a fake ID
+shintai I have to say, as a christian some of the things Kirei struggles with, especially his realization of being unable to be saved are very normal conclusions of a man striving towards purity and salvation. Christians recognize that as a human being we are consequently evil in nature and only by the grace of God can we achieve salvation. Kirei seemed to be hit heavily by each time he saw his sin nature displayed through a thought or action he took. However if he ever read the bible and discussed it with anyone, which has to be a given considering his position in the church, he must have learned that despite the massive amount of sin every human will commit in their life, as long as an effort is made to follow God and his teachings along with holding a belief in Jesus Christ, a believer's salvation is assured, really one of the most basic and most talked about concepts of the faith. This is one of the flaws I see in his character's writing.
This may be blunt but you're not understanding his character and missing the point. "Kirei seemed to be hit heavily by each time he saw his sin nature displayed through a thought or action he took" No, Kirei was hit by how he didn't care. He WANTED to care but it wasn't within his nature to do so. He couldn't bring himself to actually feel bad about being a sinner. The sins themselves didn't not bother him, it was specifically that he wasn't bothered, that bothered him. It's not a flaw in the writing of the character.
If I am to go off of Roman Catholic biblical teaching, repentance for one's sins is not a requirement for them to be forgiven or for eternal salvation. According to scripture, all that needs to be done to be forgiven for a sin, after christ's death, is recognition of the sin that was committed, or more simply, knowing a good act or thought from a bad one, Kirei's time in the church and the reading of the bible should have more than explained that to him. As far as I can tell, Kirei can clearly see that some of his actions are sinful and also recognizes the sin in him not caring about the sins he commits. Thus he fulfills the conditions to be forgiven for them and receive God's salvation when he dies, according again to biblical teaching in the new testament. It seems the writer did less research than he should have into Christianity and especially into forgiveness and salvation is all I am saying. Not trying to insult the character or writer because F/Z is an amazing anime and Kirei is undoubtedly my favorite male character in any anime.
The thing to keep in mind is that the religious establishment that Kirei subscribes to is simply known as "the holy church" and it only *resembles* Chrsitianity/ Catholism. It might be a slight cop out of Nasu but he doesn't go into that much detail about the church itself. With that in mind I think it's also important to remember that there are multiple different interpretations of the bible and as a result there are different religions that spring from it. This is to the point where there are even different subsets within Christianity and Catholism which are more like umbrellas for the smaller religons within them that they encompass. So while some interpretations believe that repentance is not a requirement, there are some that preach the opposite. In fact when I was growing up, I was brought up Christian (I believe Episcopal? not totally sure I was like 8) and I was taught I had to repent for my sins in order to receive salvation. It freaked me out quite a bit until I became an atheist. The point is I don't think there was a lack of research by Nasu but I do think there's a lack of clarification as to the specifics of the church. To be fair I think this is totally fine since I don't think it's completely necessary and works well enough for the intended purpose. Also, sorry if I came off as rude with my previous response. I didn't think you were trying to be insulting or anything like that.
I guess our only lead is the fact that Kirei feels the need to repent but can't. So "The Holy Church" must have taught him that it is a requirement for forgiveness, part of why he is troubled. Sounds like he needs a different sect. lol. I mean repentance is good and should be natural so I do see why there is confusion but under a magnifying glass if he had never "felt God's love" he wouldn't truly understand his grace either. We could talk all day about this badass. :) Like the bible there can be a few slightly different interpretations of Kirei. As to you becoming an atheist, I hope God will reach you again bro. I find the hardships we experience in life seem like absolute toil if this rock we inhabit is all there is to it.
Haha, yeah he probably did need a different faith but it was what he grew up with since his father was a priest for that church. He more than likely believed that it was the only path for him to walk in his father's footsteps and he suffered for it as a result. .
+Eesa Ali Honestly if you're gonna say something I made is "shit" you should at least come up with a good reason, saying it's cheesy without really explaining why is kinda shitty of you. I don't mind if you don't like it, that's fine, but at least back it up.
TheAnimeRoom Well it doesn't really indicate anything about your content and most of those shows look very different, making it quite jarring to look at. The music doesn't really fit with most of the scenes either imo. I will say I thoroughly enjoy your content and maybe "shit" was a bit harsh a word I just found it funny that I actually knew all the shows in these silly little intros people put on their videos. Pretty self indulgent but it's your channel so whatever, looking forward to part 2 and even a HF section around 2018 when all the movies have come out :P
+Swagura Mutsuki If I had a child the second I posted this comment, by the time the Tsukihime remake came out and was fully translated into English, the child would be as old as Nasu was when he wrote the original Tsukihime
This is what I expected from an amateur created a video about Fate Character. Even he combined Fate/zero universe with Fate/Stay night universe, totally noob.
Kirei just wanted to bring everything crashing down because he saw human life’s greatest worth being seen before dying and his own emptiness because he only got a high out of being an evil jerk despite knowing it to be wrong. Delusional and confused. His plan was basically the same as Gabriel from that Constantine film. Even in appearances in Fate/Zero were also pretty poor for video material. Just terrible. The only saving grace I could find is how his personality is at the same time the same but a polar opposite in motives to the protagonists he faces. Symbolic, but a terrible villain in performance.
of course Kotomine believes in God... he is the embodyment of nihilism Nihilism is not about "not believe", nihilism is about *believe* that "nothing has any value"
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 76 | คู่เอก "ผึ้งหลวง vs สมิงดำ"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9SBshmGQOIM/mqdefault.jpg)
Minor nitpick, Kirei didn't start training at ten, he *finished* the training at ten. He was a full blown Executor when he turned ten.
In the translation of the Fate/Zero light novels I've been reading, Kirei also remarks that the reason who was so good as an Executor because he basically tortured himself. He said he said it was for "training" or "penance" and that it lead him to masochism. It had the side effect of "forging his body like iron" so he quickly climbed the ranks and no one could catch up to him.
The reason for me saying that was because in my research I found some conflicting information, so I went with what made more sense to me. Clearly it was still wrong, lol.
It's wierdly worded in the novels as well. In the translation I've been reading it's said he basically graduated college after he already became a executor. I trust the translation mostly because the type moon wiki remarked about the executor age as well.
In the novel it mentions Kirei is born in 1967 and graduated from the Theological College of Marese St Ignacio in 1981 while skipping two grades and was also the student council president. Meaning he graduated at 14.
Kirei was definitely one of the more complex characters.
The whole series is a psychiatric's wet dream
DEUS VULT
@@stairwaytoheaven8 wrong!
@@stairwaytoheaven8 UmU
@@stairwaytoheaven8 please read the visual novels of you haven’t, it completely recontexualizes his character
I love Kirei as a villain, the man is a friggin sociopath! Defective since birth and his father named him "Kirei" in hopes that he would be "beautiful". Heaven's feel made me love him so much also. I also appreciate the tsukihime reference ;)
He's not really a sociopath since he knows right from wrong, but you're right Heaven's Feel turns Kirei from pretty cool character into fucking GODLIKE
A sociopath can know right from wrong, the difference is that they don't care and just do what they want regardless.
Jayson Esposito - the whole point of Kirei's character is that he's a sociopath from birth, and that his nature won out over his nurture.
Jessica Chian hit the nail right on the head.
Shintai - it's quite sad when you think about it really. trying to be good but being literally incapable of it since you just weren't born with the ability to empathize? makes me appreciate that i wasn't born like that, horrible as it sounds
I wished fate/zero did a flashback ep of him instead of the rin ep. If they had done an episode about the relationship he had with his wife who died months before the start of fate/zero it would have cleared up his character for people.
+wac411 While I understand where you're coming from, I think it's important to understand their decision making in regards to the show. Kotomine's relationship with his wife reveals a great many things about him, showing that in the anime, especially too early in the show, would be revealing their hand far too early and would spoil his arc during the show. His arc is one of the most defining aspects of Fate/Zero, ruining it would be criminal. For a flashback to work, It would have to be late in the show, after Kotomine has started to accept himself for who he is. There's a problem with this, Kiritsugu's flashback also occurs in the second half of the show and was placed there for a specific reason. Two different flashbacks so close together would not work well, because it strays away from the main plot for too long.. So they had to make a decision and I think it was the right one. They decided to reveal more about Kiritsugu because he isn't explore much in the VN while Kotomine gets a lot of attention in the Heaven's Feel route.
your right. I didn't mean putting that ep in the same spot (ep10 i believe nor take up a whole ep. what I was thinking could be wrapped up as fast as the lancer flashback even ) as the rin one but it would like u said take people out of it because people have said even the Kiritsugu one took them out of the main story for too long. It seems like you may talk about that event in part 2, so I'd be looking forward to it
wac411 Actually I want to avoid talking about his wife until part 3, Whenever I make part 3, which is much further down the road given how much time/ research/ work it takes to make these, that is when I'll be delving into visual novel content. Parts 1 and 2 however I want to keep spoiler free of the VN so more people can enjoy them.
Ever since the first episode of Fate Zero, Kotomine Kirei has been my favorite character of all Anime ever.
If you haven't read Heaven's Feel, do so, I already liked Kirei and he cemented himself as one of my fav characters after that. If you can't be bothered, then you'll have to wait untill the second or last movie and pray they're adapted well.
in which book is shirou kotomine in? i heard he's pretty cool too
I too am a fangirl of Kotomanly ;)
Arturia Pendragon King of Knights No! Bad Saber! You're supposed to be noble damn it
hmm saber?
Do one on Kariya.
Y'know, the guy whose life was more horrible then Shirou, Kiritsugu, and both lancers combined.
I agree
My body has been ready for this!
+DevilMay Pie That literally made me laugh out loud.
+DevilMay Pie Too bad Illya's body wasn't ready.
+TheAnimeRoom they are advertising a fate heavens feel anime adaptation
my body is made out of swords
15:16 painting not centered.
11/10 video
"I'm just an asshole on the internet rambling on about Chinese cartoons" LOL
+Brian Leifer I was hoping someone would get a kick out of that! XD
That's twitter bio worthy
I love analyses like these. This is so exquisitely put together, intelligent and well-informed. I loved how I had to pause every so often to let the words really absorb. Needless to say, I have now subscribed to your channel.
Unfortunately, this channel is basically inactive. My current channel is the one I'm responding to you with, if you want to keep up to date please consider subscribing to this one instead. You might enjoy my 1 hour and 40 minute analysis on the anime School Days if you enjoyed this.
an awesome review. Glad you made this. Hope to see more from you in the future!!!!
I am suprised you did not talk about Kirei's wife. I found that to be one of the most important parts of Kirei's life.
Too many VN spoilers.
I just want to say you're a great person and hope you continue doing what you love. Your analysis of Kotomine Kirei is superb. I recently finished watching DEEN's adaptation of the Fate route, Zero, and UBW. And honestly, the Fate S/N released in 2006 wasn't that bad; I actually enjoyed it mainly because of the relationship Shirou had with Saber.
The Deen anime mostly gets hate for being a bad adaptation, which I would agree as it really distorts the content from the visual novel. That being said I think it's fine as it's own show and it probably gets more hate than it deserves. I am glad you enjoyed the analysis video!
Very interesting and well written analysis. Some great topics brought up, especially regarding nature vs nurture.
+gilgamesh310 I think the connections to nature vs nurture will become more clear in part 2.
12:57 Explaining the church to be actually evil incarnate. And tourtchering the vamp. Makes me think of the church that monzgus did in Berserk
He is my favorite character in Fate/Zero, I read about him from online forum. I watched the entire Fate series just to learn more about him. I m really happy when I find analysis about him:)
THis video is a bit old and I am not as fond of it as I was when I first made it, but I am glad you still found enjoyment in it.
Interesting video. I hope that you eventually do continue the analysis, because I really enjoyed it.
I am actually planning on remaking this video and including what was intended to be part 2. Not sure when I will get around to it since I have some other projects I am working on, but it will definitely happen and should turn out a lot better than this video.
aristotle once commented on purpose, saying that one’s natural inclination are indicative of their purpose in life. or something like that
Very well done and look forward to part 2. Would love to see more videos in this style, I know it takes a lot,of time and work but I think myself and many others would really appreciate it. I find Kiritsugu to be a great foil to Kirei and would love to hear your take on him, I find him to be quite fascinating as well even though he might be less complex character due to the fact that he didn't have as much background in the V/N. Saber and Shirou would be an interesting parallel discussion as well.
+DevilMay Pie Yeah a lot of people are asking me to do more vidoes for other Type Moon characters, which I understand, but my next analysis (aside from the other part for Kotomine) is going to be Casca from Berserk.
+DevilMay Pie i think shirou fits as a better foil to kirei since ultimate they're opposite but also the same since kerry was understand kirei but shirou in essence suffers from the same problems kirei does.
I can't believe 25 minutes went by this fast. Wow, now i have to do some self-reflecting to prepare myself for part 2. Great video Shintai.
+Stormy Rensho Haha, may I ask what yo mean by self-reflecting? That sounds amusing to me XD
"The church killed everyone" (shows picture of one of the mages from the Mage Society)
Just a nitpick. Good video though, gotta agree with most of your points.
I knew I was showing the Mage Society, but I couldn't find any other pictures of the church during that sequence.
I hope you do more character analysis like this. One for Kiritsugu would be cool.
+EpicAnimeRequiem Maybe I'll do Kiritsugu one day, but the next one I plan on doing is Casca from Berserk.
He is the most well written villain in my opinion
20:17
You cannot grasp the true form of Giygas's- I mean Angra Mainyu's- attack!
Just one thing. The burning of Kiritsugu's village was done by the Enforcers of the Mage's Association, not the church.
The church and enforcers were working in tandem in that scene.
Great video and very interesting! Please make more.
+Bornstellar I am glad you think so and I definitely will!
The vast majority of this video is just recounting stuff stated outright in Fate/Zero. Towards the end you start theorizing about a shattered belief in God, Nature vs. Nurture, and that's fair there is some analysis there. But I really think if one is going to do an "in depth" character analysis you should really be focusing on the character's actions and words in the text itself, rather than obsessing over one part of the context (maybe that's for part 2...?). Your argument itself seems weak in many spots. In particular you could say the same nature vs. nurture stuff about most characters in Fate, and have it be far more relevant for peeps like Tokiomi, Kayneth or Shirou. It's a recurring theme that people's origins and upbringings deeply define who they are, yet they are still capable of major realignments.
I'm not trying to shit on your vid, I just think there's a lot of room for improvement here. Had you condensed this down to 5-10 minutes your ideas would have been tighter, there'd be less dead weight.
That is completely untrue, most of what I talked about in the video was at most, only lightly touched on in Fate/Zero. To claim the vast majority of my video is simply "recounting" is a ridiculous thing to claim.
The intention behind this video specifically was to focus on Kotomine's character before the events of Fate/Zero itself, my intention is to talk about his actions in Fate/Zero for part 2.
How is my argument weak? It doesn't even make sense to apply nature vs nurture to those characters except for Shirou and that's because Shirou is thematically connected to Kotomine.
I spent a considerable amount of time editing the script so there would be no filler. What dead weight are you talking about?
Kayneth states at the very start that your lineage is the most important thing about a Magus, Tokiome's bizarre attitudes about his children are a product of his upbringing in Magus culture twisting his genuine paternal instincts. There's no shortage of this stuff, almost everyone in both F/Z and F/SN is deeply affected by their upbringing and often how it clashes with their nature.
As for dead weight... well for starters, there's about 60 seconds of wordless intro (more than a little excessive) and then at about 4-5 min in get into the analysis proper. I would call this not a great use of time. I'm not going to go through and pick out every instance, but I'll point out a few salient examples.
5:30 This is a good example of dead weight. The idea that young children don't know themselves very well doesn't need a tangent. You could've cut directly from saying Kotomine doesn't understand himself to reasons why it's more extraordinary than usual and we would've followed you just fine.
More generally, around up to about 7:00 you spend a lot of time talking about how Kirei doesn't know what he wants, doesn't understand himself ect. But this is all well established in F/Z. This is the sort of thing I mean about "just recounting F/Z," because anyone who's seen a few episodes knows this. For those that haven't watched the show, they just need the briefest of citations, if any.
8:30-9:30 Again, a lot of time spent on setting and plot details, most of which are pretty clear from F/Z. I don't think you lose much if you cut directly from saying Kirei is an executor, directly to showing us what kind of work that is at 10:00. It would be evident that magic exists, and what kind of organization the Holy Church is, and what Kirei's life must have been like. It would have turned what was reiteration of plot of the flashback episodes, into a more active section of the video that pulled it's weight. You could also cut some material around the 12:30 mark, since it circles back to this executor business.
Maybe cut the Tsukihime section, because while a nice illustration of the Church's brutality, it's rather tangential and interrupts the flow of your argument into the conclusion of the nurture section. There's plenty of other evidence of the Church's methods. Really, the business on the island is more than enough, since it's how F/Z establishes the same basic information.
Overall, I'd say you might benefit from leveraging video as a medium more. One of the cool things about video analysis is that you can make a point or show evidence with just images. If you can do that with minimal or no narration, then you should because then you can spend your words on other things, thus producing a more efficient and effective video. This is a pretty good tool for compressing long videos into shorter ones.
Anyways, I hope I don't come off as condescending, but those are a some of my (hopefully) constructive criticisms.
NickCybert The problem is that I was making the argument that Kotomine is literally the embodiment of the theme, the mage culture is just a supporting factor of the theme.
I think complaining about the wordless intro is a nitpick and I felt that everything I said before the analysis proper was all information I felt was relevant, I have to disagree with you here.
I like to be thorough, just saying that plainly and moving on doesn't sit well with me. You may find it excessive but I think it's important to really understand the concept behind something before you can get to the particulars. Again this may seem arbitrary to some since they may already understand these things but that's not the case for everyone and I don't think there's anything wrong with fleshing things out a bit for them.
Fate/Zero only really touches on that with Kotomine, my intention was to delve deeper and to really explore why he is the way he is. Again I disagree. I think describing what I did as simply "recounting" is just dismissing what I actually did which was further explore his character.
I feel like I am repeating myself but you keep insisting F/Z already makes some of this stuff clear but it doesn't. It may seem that way because you're clearly a fan and know what you're talking about, however the show really doesn't explain all of this stuff in that great a detail. Which is fine it's not really a problem in the show since it gets the basics out of the way and that's all you really need in order to enjoy it, however not everyone watching this is as dedicated a fan as we are and knows all of the ins and outs of the world building. I don't see an issue with fleshing this stuff out for those that haven't read the VN and understand some of this stuff in greater detail.
This is more arguable than anything else, you say the Tsukihime part was too much, i see it as just finalizing how people should perceive the church. It may come off as excessive, I see it as just strengthening the argument.
I know I am coming off as defensive but this is something I worked (and continue to with part 2) very long and hard on and it was something I made so not just Type-Moon fags like us to enjoy, I made it so more casual fans can dig it aswell and you're moreso criticizing that I am not catering to the hardcore fans. I get that recounting some stuff veterans are already familiar with can be redundant but I wanted to make sure this was enjoyable for most of the fans. Admittedly you did somewhat come off as condescending, particularly in your first comment, but it doesn't seem to be your intention and you came off more reasonable in this second comment. Despite my defensiveness I do appreciate you taking the time to point out your issues even if we don't necessarily;y see eye to eye because it shows you're clearly passionate about this. Well all I can say now is I hope you like part 2 more.
anyone who writes that much wall of text in such a defensive matter needs to take a chill pill no matter how much 'effort' you put in lol
+NickCybert Dude, I agree with you in that Tokiomi represents that Nurture is stronger than nature, however Kirei does represent the idea that nature is stronger than nurture. In the visual novel, they go into depth about his personality, realization, and his inherent sadistic nature. Not everything has to be black and white, and that's the entire point of Fate/Zero. The creators aren't trying to say that different people are differently affected. This is mirrored with all the conflicts of ideologies in Fate/Zero. There's no clear answer for the nature vs. nurture question just like there isn't any clear answer in regards to ideologies. Some people embrace their nature, like Kotomine, and others reject it and embrace their nurture, like Tokiomi.
I do agree that the bit about the "certain character" was a deviation to make us understand that the church is bad. I found it a bit tiring since I was here mostly for Kotomine, and I understand the importance of showing the cruelty of the church. However, this is the first part and I hope he goes into more detail about Kotomine in the 2nd part. The church bit could've been shortened with just the Tsukihime event since the topic revolves around Kotomine and not about the church's cruelty.
I'm not even the biggest Fate fan but your analysis is so eloquently put that it's hard not to get sucked up in it.
Thank you! I appreciate the high praise coming from someone who isn't all that into the franchise.
Yorokobe shounen
*Waits for part 2 to be uploaded*
............ apologies for the wait.
TheAnimeRoom no worries. This was a great video BTW. Whenever it may be, I look forward to the rest of the series.
rejoice heaven's feel will come in 2017
Rejoice, TheAnimeRoom! Your wish will finally be granted.
And it was ass.
Excellent analysis. It always impressed me how a character literally born evil can have actual depth, most hacks just use it as lazy motivation for villains.
How much will you be going into his relation to Angra Mainyu?
+Bio. Bait. I am not really gonna touch that, part 2 is going to focus on dissecting his character arc during Fate/Zero itself. If I ever make a part 3 going over stuff from the VN I'll talk about it, but I have no idea when I'll get around to that. Anyways I am glad you dug it!
This was really great! Thanks for doing this! I'm looking forward to part 2! I do really hope you decide to touch on his character in light of the events of Heaven's Feel at some point though. I feel that's where he is the most interesting, although that could just be me.
+Gammarik Maybe one day I will if I decide to do a part 3, but part 2 will focus on his character arc during Fate/Zero.
Very good as allways, Well done Shintai
+alcadias60 Thanks!
This draws very strong paralells to homosexuality and religion.
Fuck bro, awesome analysis. On to part 2 😎
Oh hell no. Where's my part 2?
@@magikarpslapper759 Sorry, part 2 is never happening
@@TheAnimeRoom Say it aint so
Kotomine is the best. Funnily enough he is the most like Shirou of any character. They both have things that they want to do, and nothing can convince them that they are wrong.
and here i am, his adopted son
I quite like Kirei because of his interactions with Shirou throughout the original VN. Then HF happened, and I fucking loved him after that.
+jamal munir HF was what really made him special in the VN.
My all time favourite villain
can you do one for Gilgamesh???? :) i really love your videos, and it'd be cool to see one on Gil because he's a pretty interesting hedonist
Its good work but I feel something is missing. Is kotomine's nature positive to get in contradiction with the nurtur he got ? Or is it evils being piled up ?
Kotomine's nature is to be evil, he was nurtured into being a good person. This conflict is what represents his character.
@@DanielSantosAnalysis This is what is off to me. The church is not good. To be nurtured take an environment not just some lectures. You can't go :"all life is sacred" and run an assasination guild on the side and be taken seriously. Child aren't blind nor deaf
@@yuuyou3785 Pretty sure the church never said "all life is sacred" especially since they think certain creatures are unholy abominations that go against god. Remember, this is a fictional religion, it's not 1 to 1 like Christianity or Catholicism.
Anyways I think what you're missing is that there are specific teachings that go against how Kotomine feels, that's where the conflict is. It's less about "good vs evil" its more about being taught to act a certain way, but that goes against what he naturally feels.
@@DanielSantosAnalysis Daniel Santos I know they never said "all life is sacred". Its the teaching of his father and there influence on him that I don't see completing the argument nature vs nurtur.
He accepted the teaching and the idea that he is different from people around him but it seem like he is just tormented by the fact that he is different.
His nature and his nurturing aren't incompatible but the fact that he can't feel the same way as others torment him and seem to stop him from enjoying stuff.
I just don't see the nature vs nurtur place in all of this
@@yuuyou3785 Except Kotomine specifically asked God why he is the way he is. This is a conflict between how he feels and what he was taught. It's not just that he's different from other people, but how he feels goes against God's teachings. In Fate/Zero when he fully accepts himself, he even laughs at how God could've created something like him and that he came from someone like his father who he saw as a good man. Kotomine knows what he *should* be like based on what his father taught him and what the church taught him and the way he feels goes against all that. All of this ties into nature vs nurture.
He's so twisted n fucked up in many ways which makes him one of my favourite villain! Another really good villain in my opinion is Shogo Makishima from Psycho Pass ( season one). You should check it out if u haven't seen it. Hey it would be cool If u can make ur top anime villain vid! Anyway I will be looking forward to part two.
+Zezo J I've seen Psycho-Pass, I thought it was good for the most part, although I wasn't a fan of the direction the show went in the last 3rd or so.
I don't really do top lists to be honest, I'd actually rather just dedicate a video to those villains that I like and explain why they're so good.
Makishima would be my favorite villain if not for the fact that he spews out literature references
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder." James 2:19
as far as depictions of the catholic church is concerned i think it's pretty close, kinda reminds me of Iscariot from hellsing.
Thank you, I know it's only part one but I. Am extremely hapy to finally see this (I know I'm late) and hear the awesome analysis. I actually look at Kotomine in a different, more understanding way. I look forward to the next part, take as long as you want, because part one is already much better than I anticipated. On a side note, I notice you're playing Bloodborne, it's one of my favorite games and it would be an honor to play with you. I would also completely understand if you can't. Anyways, thanks again for making this video and for the ones to come. P.S. my PSN is Brottosai.
+Carl Maggio It was really my intention from the get go with this analysis to help people see him differently and understand him more deeply. Hearing you say that really makes me feel like I succeeded in doing that.
I would play with you but sadly I don't have PS+ so I can't play online. I'll add you on PSN though.
Where's part 2?
Interesting video. And speaking of Berserk, you should do a Guts or Griffith Analysis sometime.
+WackySwacky Actually I am planning on doing Casca, I think she's very misunderstood.
TheAnimeRoom Awesome!
I'm one of the people that wanted to see you dive into the VN D:
+justkallmekai Sorry! Hopefully I can sometime later when I re-read the VN.
TheAnimeRoom Yeah, I'm paying a bit more attention when reading it now. Since my friend and I are reading it together. Still on Fate.
Very interesting video.
I am glad you think so!
Eh, it’s that guy who sell overpriced spicy soup and black key.
Type moon didn’t write fate zero, he would have to have talent to do that.
Kinoko Nasu was integral to the creative process of Fate/Zero, whether you want to admit it or not, Fate/Zero is the way it is because of him., meaning he does indeed have talent Also, Type Moon is the name of the company, not the name of the creator.
@@TheAnimeRoom Your probably right, though I still feel that fate zero has more meaningful things to say than their other projects. Though i’ve only seen zero and ubw, so i’m probably wrong. Also had no idea that type moon was a company, that makes a lot more sense.
Really great video I feel like i learned a lot more about Kotomine Kirei, Will you be doing an in-deoth for Shirou Sakura Illya Shiki Asagami and others or not? also there is a Fate/Stay Night Heaven's Feel Manga so far I really like it.
+NarutoBleachPS3Fan The next analysis I plan on doing (aside from the next part for Kotomine) is actually Casca from Berserk, I haven't thought about doing any videos for the characters you mentioned, I'd rather not only do Type-Moon characters, I don't want to be known as simply "that Type Moon guy" lol.
+TheAnimeRoom type moon has some great complex characters though.
patrick watkins Of course, Kotomine isn't going to be the only Type Moon character I'll ever cover, I just want to make sure these videos are more diverse.
i want one on atleast shirou so people can get a better understanding about him since most people don't.
TheAnimeRoom I see that's cool with me i really thought this was so good for the longest time i was wounder why i liked Kotomine so much (until Heaven's Feel) please keep doing videos like these it's so cool. lol yeah i understand if you do for more analysis for Type-Moon and other animes/VN like The Frult Of Grisaia or so i would love to see the videos i find these great (sorry for sounding like a stupid fanboy who won't shut up lol)
it was the woman on the screen
Yorokobe shounen!
Kotomine lives in a world where citing the literal world of God has baptismal powers and is able to banish magical creatures, so I'd say you didn't have to spend time questioning his beliefs. After all, in that universe you have LITERAL FUCKING PROOF of good old YHWH existing in some way or form.
Kirei's main problem lies in his lack of understanding of why God would allow a creature so intrinsically evil (i.e deriving pleasure only from others' suffering) to exist, and that's also why he wants to protect Angra Mainyu (said to be a being of pure evil in whom Kotomine sees himself) since he firmly believes that no soul can be judged before it's even born. He also sees himself as defective and wants to make sense of what his ultimate purpose is, which is where the whole existentialist stuff comes in. That's the basic gist of it, but it's explained even further in the visual novel itself.
Great video though, I don't know if you're still planning on making part 2, but Kirei's probably THE most complex character in all of Fate, and it's a bit sad that most people think of him as a shallow edgelord due to routes where he wasn't as fleshed out, so it's always fun to see someone trying to explain his motivations.
I can see why you might find it unnecessary for me to talk about his beliefs, but it was more about explaining his thought process and why he turned out the way he did.
I also lament that people dismiss him as a shallow character which is why I made the video. Part 2 is still going to be made but I am not 100% sure when. I feel my writing has improved a good deal since this video though so when it does come out I feel confident in saying it will be much better.
Out of curiosity, has anyone read the fate/ zero manga ? I would love to hear toughts about it, as it is currently released by dark horse.
+Elvis Cosovic I haven't read it personally, but I heard it was solid.
Would love it if you did the same with Emiya Kirisugu or Roy Mustang or Captain Levi or Lelouch.
+The Hitman Roy Mustang would be an interesting one to tackle.
TheAnimeRoom sure would be....one of my favorite anime characters.
what about johan liebert from monster, he is awesome and creepy at the same time
Why did you stop the channel? it I would have loved to see the next part of it!
I haven't "stopped" the channel, I am just busy with real life stuff and videos like these take a long time to make. The script for this video alone was extremely arduous to put together because of how rigorous my editing process was and even then I was still not 100% happy with the end product (although still pretty proud) I plan on making part 2 when I can, but when that will happen I am not totally sure.
The other parts?
Where is the second part?
When I made this part 1 I was completely burnt out. I felt like I had Kotomine himself running around in my brain for a month. So I put off the second part for awhile and I've been progressing on it slowly. bit by bit It will come out eventually when I've cleaned my plate of other projects and I can give it my full focus. I aim for part 2 to be a longer and more detailed video than this part 1. In the meantime I am sorry for the wait and hopefully it will be worth said wait.
How will you analyze Kirei specifically without touching HF if that's where he gets his main development side to side with Shirou as his foil tho?
+Kenryuusaki Dextroyer There's plenty of ground to cover concerning his arc in Fate/Zero. Plus I did mention that I might go over HF sometime later, just not anytime soon since that would take awhile.
embraceyourinner tophat Why is it so weird for me to want to talk about Casca? I think she's misunderstood and there's a lot to talk about concerning her character. She' has a lot more depth than people realize and I want to show that.
+embraceyourinner tophat I don't think it's just there "for the sake of parallel" or the fact that Kirei being the final boss of the entire series is only coincidental, on the contrary. Of all the people in the world, the only one who truly "understood" Kirei was Shirou after all (and vice versa). It's easy to misinterpret his character in Fate/Zero or even to dismiss his whole evolution as mere background noise which is why I think that ultimately, HF is where we truly understand and see his character shine.
+embraceyourinner tophat So you're willing to dismiss Casca as uninteresting but then recommend him to delve into Alucard, Revy and...Koko? What?
embraceyourinner tophat Tbh, the anime isn't to blame for that. Overall, it still did a hell of a good job at adapting the source material and even managed to tone down some of the Butcher's tendencies to go overboard with his "edgyness":
Here's a passage from the F/Z LN:
"Emiya Kiritsugu’s right hand continued its work of writing while his left hand mechanically shoveled his nutrition - hamburgers from a fast food restaurant he bought while investigating - into his mouth. For nine years, Emiya Kiritsugu had eaten at the table of the Einsberns, who were merely a hair removed from royalty themselves. He had grown tired of the cuisine. This fast food, filled with the sense of slaughter, was more suited to his tastes. Being able to eat without interrupting one’s words or thoughts was better than anything, no matter how you looked at it."
Try reading that with a straight face...
When will part 2 be Relesed? Are you still working on it?
Not totally sure honestly. Don't get me wrong I still intend to release it but I am not actively working on it.
TheAnimeRoom Alright. Take it easy and good Luck.
My writing has gotten a lot better since I made this, so rest assured when it does get released, it will be a lot better than part 1. :)
TheAnimeRoom Nice to hear!I will wait patiently.
so where is part 2 xD?
also i'd like there is a manga adaptation of the heaven's feel route.
+patrick watkins I believe a manga adaptation was announced.
TheAnimeRoom
there have been like 4-5 chapters released.
patrick watkins Ah, I wasn't aware that it was out. Those kinds of manga tend to take forever to actually finish though.
TheAnimeRoom
yeah seems that way.
Where is part 2?
I am not satisfied with this video anymore to do a part 2, I am gonna go back to the drawing board and remake this.
hey shintai could i ask you to do saber, shirou/archer I want to know more of their character so i can help my friend like the show better. Right now he is watching ubw and he said's its bad b/c it doesn't make any sense on some of the things that happen unlike other people who notice or watched fate zero. Thank u for reading this
+zero97794 The problem there is that the UBW isn't good for newcomers, it doesn't explain things very well.
like i had them try fate zero they did not like a women being called a king. Also i think the deen adaptation is too old and outdated; so they wouldn't really like that show either
zero97794 Disliking a show because they don't like a woman being called a king is fucking stupid. She hid her gender during her life, it makes sense.
didn't merlin make her a pseudo male?
zero97794 Temporarily
Not Chinese, but Japanese instead
It's a meme, you dip.
3:20 had me dying
10:35 This is actually Cornelius Alba from Mujun Rasen. Ain't that funny ? ^^
UFOTable is teasing us with a "maybe." It might be Alba, but it could just as easily not be. And the moment of "is that something from Kara no Kyoukai?" Might have been the intention rather than providing any sort of definitive connection.
where is part 2
I am still working on it, taking longer than I expected to release it.
TheAnimeRoom good luck on it. I'll give you a subscription to show my anticipation.
May bad rolls and black keys plunder your luck.
YOROKOBE SHOUNEN
Pls part 2
I am planning something bigger, gonna do a remake of the content of part 1, incorprate what was supposed to be part 2 and release it as one big video. Hopefully it turns out well. 👍
Tnx for awsering. Can´t wait for the big video. Kirei has been a character who always intrgued me, and i´m surprised that there were no analysis on him.
What's the point of doing an anime-only analysis when the anime is at best a mere shadow of the VN?
Technically it's not an "anime-only" analysis, if you watched the video you can clearly see I am using my knowledge of the VN to explain different elements of his character. All I said was I may or may not specifically cover his character's action in the Heaven's Feel arc. There wouldn't be much point in analyzing him in the Fate or UBW routes since not much goes with him either of them. All I meant was that people who have only seen the anime could enjoy the analysis.
do one for me as well
Nah I am good
why not? i am his son
i might be a fanfiction character but...
I haven't read/watched Fate/Apocrypha anyways.
i am not the Shirou Kotomine from fate apocrypha, i am from fate alternate night, the one in apocrypha is another person who uses Shirou Kotomine as a fake ID
Best girl
+shintai
I have to say, as a christian some of the things Kirei struggles with, especially his realization of being unable to be saved are very normal conclusions of a man striving towards purity and salvation. Christians recognize that as a human being we are consequently evil in nature and only by the grace of God can we achieve salvation. Kirei seemed to be hit heavily by each time he saw his sin nature displayed through a thought or action he took. However if he ever read the bible and discussed it with anyone, which has to be a given considering his position in the church, he must have learned that despite the massive amount of sin every human will commit in their life, as long as an effort is made to follow God and his teachings along with holding a belief in Jesus Christ, a believer's salvation is assured, really one of the most basic and most talked about concepts of the faith. This is one of the flaws I see in his character's writing.
This may be blunt but you're not understanding his character and missing the point.
"Kirei seemed to be hit heavily by each time he saw his sin nature displayed through a thought or action he took"
No, Kirei was hit by how he didn't care. He WANTED to care but it wasn't within his nature to do so. He couldn't bring himself to actually feel bad about being a sinner. The sins themselves didn't not bother him, it was specifically that he wasn't bothered, that bothered him. It's not a flaw in the writing of the character.
If I am to go off of Roman Catholic biblical teaching, repentance for one's sins is not a requirement for them to be forgiven or for eternal salvation. According to scripture, all that needs to be done to be forgiven for a sin, after christ's death, is recognition of the sin that was committed, or more simply, knowing a good act or thought from a bad one, Kirei's time in the church and the reading of the bible should have more than explained that to him. As far as I can tell, Kirei can clearly see that some of his actions are sinful and also recognizes the sin in him not caring about the sins he commits. Thus he fulfills the conditions to be forgiven for them and receive God's salvation when he dies, according again to biblical teaching in the new testament. It seems the writer did less research than he should have into Christianity and especially into forgiveness and salvation is all I am saying. Not trying to insult the character or writer because F/Z is an amazing anime and Kirei is undoubtedly my favorite male character in any anime.
The thing to keep in mind is that the religious establishment that Kirei subscribes to is simply known as "the holy church" and it only *resembles* Chrsitianity/ Catholism. It might be a slight cop out of Nasu but he doesn't go into that much detail about the church itself. With that in mind I think it's also important to remember that there are multiple different interpretations of the bible and as a result there are different religions that spring from it. This is to the point where there are even different subsets within Christianity and Catholism which are more like umbrellas for the smaller religons within them that they encompass. So while some interpretations believe that repentance is not a requirement, there are some that preach the opposite. In fact when I was growing up, I was brought up Christian (I believe Episcopal? not totally sure I was like 8) and I was taught I had to repent for my sins in order to receive salvation. It freaked me out quite a bit until I became an atheist. The point is I don't think there was a lack of research by Nasu but I do think there's a lack of clarification as to the specifics of the church. To be fair I think this is totally fine since I don't think it's completely necessary and works well enough for the intended purpose.
Also, sorry if I came off as rude with my previous response. I didn't think you were trying to be insulting or anything like that.
I guess our only lead is the fact that Kirei feels the need to repent but can't. So "The Holy Church" must have taught him that it is a requirement for forgiveness, part of why he is troubled. Sounds like he needs a different sect. lol. I mean repentance is good and should be natural so I do see why there is confusion but under a magnifying glass if he had never "felt God's love" he wouldn't truly understand his grace either. We could talk all day about this badass. :) Like the bible there can be a few slightly different interpretations of Kirei. As to you becoming an atheist, I hope God will reach you again bro. I find the hardships we experience in life seem like absolute toil if this rock we inhabit is all there is to it.
Haha, yeah he probably did need a different faith but it was what he grew up with since his father was a priest for that church. He more than likely believed that it was the only path for him to walk in his father's footsteps and he suffered for it as a result. .
5 minutes in and nothing...
If you know anything about Fate, you know there is a lot of things that need to be explained.
+TheAnimeRoom
I do. There are.
Perhaps a heads up in the description at the least
Ro Jay I'll consider putting an annotation when I have the time.
Oh god that channel intro is even more shit now that I've seen all the series featured XD.
+Eesa Ali What's wrong with the intro?
TheAnimeRoom It's just a bit cheesy imo, having random scenes from a bunch of shows you like with battle is to the strong in the background.
Eesa Ali I don't really see what's cheesy about it.
+Eesa Ali Honestly if you're gonna say something I made is "shit" you should at least come up with a good reason, saying it's cheesy without really explaining why is kinda shitty of you. I don't mind if you don't like it, that's fine, but at least back it up.
TheAnimeRoom Well it doesn't really indicate anything about your content and most of those shows look very different, making it quite jarring to look at. The music doesn't really fit with most of the scenes either imo. I will say I thoroughly enjoy your content and maybe "shit" was a bit harsh a word I just found it funny that I actually knew all the shows in these silly little intros people put on their videos. Pretty self indulgent but it's your channel so whatever, looking forward to part 2 and even a HF section around 2018 when all the movies have come out :P
i refuse to watch the tsukihime VN till the remake comes out.
+Swagura Mutsuki If I had a child the second I posted this comment, by the time the Tsukihime remake came out and was fully translated into English, the child would be as old as Nasu was when he wrote the original Tsukihime
+FullmetalGhoul Agreed. +Swagura Mutsuki Good luck with that shit.
Speaking of Tsukihime in general. Man I love that VN
+FullmetalGhoul pretty much, probably wont even be that far from the truth.
TheAnimeRoom Yeah, the translation alone would take 10 years, even if the game came out this second
+FullmetalGhoul We still havent gotten Witch on the Holy Night for fuck sakes.
This is what I expected from an amateur created a video about Fate Character. Even he combined Fate/zero universe with Fate/Stay night universe, totally noob.
Fate/Zero takes place in the Fate/Stay Night universe, they're directly related, I don't understand what point you're trying to make.
U sound like mrcreepypasta.
+Shy Blue29 Really? I don't think so , I just heard his voice and I don't hear many similarities compared to mine.
Kirei just wanted to bring everything crashing down because he saw human life’s greatest worth being seen before dying and his own emptiness because he only got a high out of being an evil jerk despite knowing it to be wrong. Delusional and confused. His plan was basically the same as Gabriel from that Constantine film. Even in appearances in Fate/Zero were also pretty poor for video material. Just terrible. The only saving grace I could find is how his personality is at the same time the same but a polar opposite in motives to the protagonists he faces. Symbolic, but a terrible villain in performance.
EmptyMan000 In HF he's great.
I can kinda feel similar to kotomine
of course Kotomine believes in God... he is the embodyment of nihilism
Nihilism is not about "not believe", nihilism is about *believe* that "nothing has any value"
No, Kotomine does not embody nihilism. It's an overarching theme in Fate/Zero, absolutely, but not Kotomine specifically.