All The World's Evil - An Analysis of Fate/Zero (Part 2 of 3)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
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A bit of background on Alexander the Great for you. He was a tyrant when he needed to be but was very merciful and magnanimous most of the times. He even returned the rulership of most of the lands he conquered to their vanquished rulers as long as they swore loyalty to him.
Oh and the reason why Alexander was so concerned about the journey itself and not the destination was because he grew up fondly listening to the legends of Heracles, Achilles, Odysseus, etc. All he wanted to know is how far he can go compared to those heroes. He just wanted to go to distance. haha two disney reference there for you.
Cheers for this! I appreciate it. Just to clarify though, I wasn't trying to make assumptions about the real man - I was just extrapolating on the nature of Fate/Zero's character version of him.
@@Aleczandxr where is part 1
@@luizcastro5246 I was hungry so I ate the video.
@@sosukeaizenbutdressedupina4692 Dammit Goring not again!
What song is this at 9:15 it's so good I heard it somewhere else, what's the name of it? That's not from Fate Zero is it? I totally forgot where it came from but I'm pretty sure I've listened to a different version of that song many time...
There is one song akin to this one in Shining Force 1 or 2 butn it's not the same one...
I think the song is from Hunter x Hunter no? Not sure anymore...
Man, that scene when Kirei cries like a baby after killing his surrogate mother really hits me hard every time.
I think you mean Kiritsugu. But regardless, totally agree. So well done and emotional.
Aleczandxr Right you are, on both accounts.
I remember watching it when it aired. On Mother's Day. It was a glorious "fuck you" to the fans.
It hits even harder after watching/reading the Fate/Stay Nights and seeing how this tragedy affected shirou.
It's very ironic how Saber was forced to forget her "girliness" by becoming the king of Britain while her course of action was basically being an "overprotective and blind mother" to her kingdom.
Maybe the message is that those who cling to their ideals/goals so obsessively to the point where they'll go to any lengths to achieve them, will become crushed by that weight.
That's definitely a message from the story that I identified as well. Unhealthy overreliance on ideals.
+Aleczandxr Shirou was actually on the verge of going on that path too, before he accepted how flawed his ideal was and decided to live with it.
The Heaven's Feel Route from the visual novel...ho ho ho ho, now THAT is an entirely different story.
The shows portrays that as long as you stay true to yourself no matter how great your dreams are, you will never be crushed...
Gilgamesh awakened Iskandar from his dreams and yet he didnt despair like all the others... Because he knew that even if his way wasnt good, that was him.. Even if he couldnt achieved his dream, he loved the journey.... Deep insode him he must have known that conquest has a limit
this brilliant fate analysis actually made me tear up a bit ...
I really appreciate that. It's a spectacular show, I did my best to do it justice.
Aleczandxr you earned a subscriber, looking forward to your future videos and good luck ^^
LoseControlForDeath Thanks very much! :)
i have one thing to say: the way i see it, kiritsugu's breaking point wasn't the vision in the grail, but what happened later. after "killing" ilya and iri and waking up, he told kirei that he just followed his ideal - the grail will couse too much death, so he sacrifice his chance to reunite with his family, by "killing" them, or destroying the grail. but then he see that his action started the fire. he wanted to sacrifice a few, and caused the death of many. then he understood that killing the few isn't the best way to save the many, and also that saving even one person counts, when he saved shiro.
Well, I agree with you. I never said that Kiritsugu reached his breaking point inside the Grail; just that his ideology was tragically deconstructed. His breaking point came after the Grail rained fire on Fuyuki, as you said.
I just think, why is there so much negativity in fiction when there's so much negativity in real life already? Shouldn't we be using it to enforce more positivity? As entertaining as conflict is in fiction, it also needs more positivity in it to make the audience feel great. shadow
Great analysis. There are some things that I would like to add to your observations:
Gilgamesh: This is definitely one case where knowing a Heroic Spirit's original legend adds depth to that character that you wouldn't catch on to at face value. His was a story about seeking immortality after the death of his close friend, and after having his goal right in his grasp, it gets snatched away from him. When he tells Rider that, "the dream ends when the dreamer awakens," he's not just blowing hot air, he's speaking from personal first-hand experience. He's a fun egotistical antagonist at the surface, but when you actually know his backstory he becomes a tragic figure in his own right.
Assassin: It's a bit sad that Assassin was a bit of a joke since supplementary materials and spin-offs have really helped to expand on their character. Their motivation was due to an identity crisis where they were worried about losing their sense of self through their sea of personalities, and their wish for the Grail is to become one cohesive whole so that they can become more capable of observing themselves. It's also stated that there were a total of 19 people who bore the name "Hassan" in the past after the original Hassan founded the Hashashin order. The "Hundred-Faced Hassan" that we see in F/Z was the very last Hassan of that line. They did something to royally screw up so badly that they ended the entire Hassan legacy. This might be another possible motivator for them to fight in the HGW; to make up for whatever that grievous mistake was. Too bad they were the first to go...
Berserker: I was a little disappointed that the anime didn't include the implication that Lancelot was in love with Artoria, and that his affair with Guinevere was a way of vicariously reaching out to Artoria. Other people have mentioned this before, but I thought I would just bring it up here anyway.
Rider: It should be stressed that the historical Alexander WAS a tyrant. He forced his will upon other nations and subjugated them just to satisfy his own greed. But he mentions that himself in the series, so yeah.
Waver: In many of the spin-off series, it is revealed that (due to the way that magecraft works in this setting) Waver would never be able to become anything more than an average magus at best no matter how much hard work and effort he put into it. In that regard, Kayneth was right, sadly enough. However, he is considered to be one of the best educators that the Mage's Association has ever seen. It turns out that he has an impeccable talent in finding the talents in others and nurturing them to their fullest potential. Ironically enough, he has unwittingly gathered his own following of fiercely loyal students, and it's rumored that if they were to all team up, they could take over the entire Association by themselves despite being outnumbered 1000 to 1.
Kirei: While Kirei's motivation in F/Z isn't very complex (to find out WHAT he wants), his motivation in F/SN becomes a bit more so, especially in the "Heaven's Feel" route (WHY he wants it). After he comes to recognize himself as evil, he wants to find out why someone as evil as him was born in the first place. By having the Grail give birth to Angra Mainyu, "all the world's evil," he hopes he can come to learn the answer to his question by witnessing something just as evil as himself being born. It should also be noted that Shirou of all people bears a huge resemblance to Kirei which is elaborated on in HF. While Shirou took up Kiritsugu's ideals, he and Kirei are both fundamentally empty people. They are both shells that can only be filled by other people, the only difference being that Kirei finds purpose and joy in causing suffering in others while Shirou finds purpose and joy in saving others. They both feel nothing outside of that and have no sense of self.
Kiritsugu: One of the things that the UBW anime did that I particularly enjoyed was how it emphasized Kiritsugu's and Archer's similarities. It was a bit more difficult to catch going from the F/SN visual novel to the F/Z anime, but became more obvious on my second playthrough. I just liked how the UBW anime drew even more attention to this comparison though its visuals.
This was very interesting. I'm making a video on Gilgamesh and you brought up a point there that I hadn't thought of/didn't really know about it. Would you mind if I included some of that info in the video?
Aleczandxr Sure, feel free.
Balthizar101 damn where can i see more of waver???
I believe the Hassan in this one is called Hundred-faces, who has multiple- personality disorder. She's only one of the 19.
Oh God we agree, Tokiomi was a trash father. And just failed at that loyalty spot check.
Lancer in this and Unlimited Blade's work is excessively awesome.
i held back tears when Rider died
I didn't know she was 7 held back? I just went ahead and wept. I strive to live a life worthy of iskander...
I got the impression that Lancer's mole was somehow a curse that made women eventually falling in love with him? Or did I misunderstand that completely?
Nope, you've basically got it correct there!
was not "eventually", just one gaze upon his face would make woman fall for him
what happend is that, after gráinne falling in love with him because of the curse on his face, she also cast a spell on him to "always follow her"... he didn't voluntarilly fell for her... they runaway together, had 5 children, always hidden from Fion, then, years later, he comes back to try to redeem with his former master, they go hunting, and then he is fatally injured by a boar, fullfilling the curse casted upon his father by Aengus (your son will be killed by the boar reincarnation of the person you killed).
it's sad how magic made diarmuid a slave of destiny his entire life
You're goddamn brilliant as always, although there is a bit of an issue over what you said about the UBW climax. Yes it was bombastic and lacking in symbolic growth and revelation, but that was because all of that was already had in Shirou vs Archer fight, and the fight with Gilgamesh was just the final step in Shirou's powers, but his development was already completed at that point. Still, please continue the amazing work and god bless
Thanks for the kind words! In my criticism of UBW's anime, I was actually talking about both the Shirou vs Archer fight AND the Gilgamesh one. I realize I should specified, but Shirou vs Archer was hardly impressive in that department in animated form. In the visual novel they pulled off the character growth displayed throughout the fights very well, but Ufotable flubbed on communicating it in the anime for me. Just my opinion, as always.
I guess that's one of the weaknesses in an animated medium. Not enough space for things like internal monologue compared to a visual novel.
13:57
Er, what about Kiritsugu? He definitely changed for the better (psychologically speaking, at least)--he realized the futility of taking his ideals to such extremes and comes to realize what he'd always truly wanted--to actually save people personally and get to know them afterwards. This is telling, because he had saved Maiyu at some point in the past, but he took no pleasure or satisfaction in doing so, just like he never took any pleasure or satisfaction in indirectly saving people by assassinating dangerous people. By contrast, he realized that he had been pursuing his dream in the wrong way entirely, and that living with such disregard for his own happiness or satisfaction was a betrayal of his own ideals. That he had to lose everything to accept happiness at saving just one life is very tragic, but it showed that he died in peace just from that one act (whereas before, he had saved thousands of lives through ruthlessness, but never gained any satisfaction or happiness from any of it, and would have kept doing so until he died).
Similarly, Saber improves as a character by virtue of having her ideals and narrow world-view challenged and shaken by others...to the point where, in in Fate/Stay Night, she reneges on her deal with Alaya and decides that she doesn't want to change the past anymore.
Meh, I didn't exactly phrase that as well as I could have. (Also note that it was just a tiny interpretation that used "pretty much" in it). Kiritsugu definitely learns from his naivety and narrow-mindedness and is positively affected by this, but he loses his wife, his daughter, Maiya, and (by his perception) causes the deaths of countless. He's changed positively, but goes through absolute hell to get there and in my view, it was a net negative and not really worth it. Whereas with Waver, what he gained offset what he lost IMO. I guess that's what I was trying to say. On Saber, I can see where you're coming from, although my view is limited since I've only ever experience Zero and UBW (anime).
Like I said, it was just a little statement without too much thought put into it, but it's easy to see what I meant. Waver ends the story much better off than basically any other major character.
I love your analysis, but I don’t think Kariya was as altruistic as you say. His stated reason for participating in the war was for Sakura. But as his dream showed at the very end, it was at least in part so he can take away Tokiomi’s family and impress Aoi. This is apparent when Aoi completely misinterprets his intentions (everything he does has been out of love for her) and he tries to strangled her. Granted he’s not quite sane at that moment, but it does show his basic desire is to have Aoi look upon him favorably.
He respectfully stayed away from the Tohsaka family while he was sane, then he started to go insane and then had it out for Tokiomi. Ostensibly, it’s only about Tokiomi giving Sakura away to the monster Zouken. Tokiomi actually doesn’t seem to know the fate that would befall his daughter. Sure, he’s not a great father and no great father would do what he did, but mages seem to be motivated by dynastic ambitions and what he did is basically similar to what royalty used to do. Give away their children for political ties. They didn’t give away their children to be tortured and raped.
Had Kariya sucked up his pride and explained it, instead of going apeshit on him, everything might have ended differently. For all we know, they might have teamed up to save Sakura. Instead, he went to Zouken alone, without consulting any Tohsakas as to what he wanted to do, and took it all on himself. All this, when he could have had help with some communication. But no, in truth, he doesn’t want Tokiomi’s help. I’m not saying Tokiomi would have reacted nobly and tried to save Sakura, but there’s actually a chance that he might, and Kariya didn’t even TRY. He wants to do it alone. Because... why? Does he want to play the big damn hero and impress Aoi and the girls, so he can replace Tokiomi in his own family? He could have said: “hey Aoi, do you have any idea what being a Matou mage entails? Being raped and infested with worms every night for at least a year! You need to talk to your husband. We need to save her from that old coot.”
I feel that his character arc is very reminiscent of Sayaka’s in Madoka. She does something immensely self sacrificing, but she was dishonest about her true motives, and it led to her death and insanity at the end. What she really wanted was for that guy to love her. All because she didn’t have the courage to confess to him. Hitomi, her friend who got him in the end, even gave her the chance to confess to him, and she DIDN’T, making excuses like “but I’m a zombie now!” First of all, why do you think he would necessarily be put off by that? Secondly, do you think your friend would have wanted you to take on a life of battles just to play the violin? If yes, then he’s a shitty person and not deserving of your friendship. If no, then, I don’t know. You made your own bed by not talking about it first. Even if he rejected you, at least then you KNOW, then you didn’t have to sign on as a magical girl in some roundabout way to gain his affection. Like her, Kariya went through hell, but he sort of put himself there.
Yeah I agree, my thoughts on him have shifted since making this. He definitely did care for Sakura and he's a decent guy who had a tragedy of a life, but he did quite a bit of what he did out of hubris and self-interest.
@@Aleczandxr I actually read a fanfic on Kariya that isn't up anymore, sadly enough, that expanded on his backstory, as a mid-teen, he witnessed the cruel deeds Zouken committed with the worms on his and Byakuya's mom and left to the magus association to have Zouken arrested, but they actually replied that they didn't actually see anything too wrong in his actions. Since higher echelon magi tend to have a really warped moral compass by normal society's standards, by their estimation, Zouken wasn't doing anything beyond an extreme form of magi testing. Kariya was shocked at the association's lack of concern for Zouken's actions and from then on, chose to leave. He offered his brother a chance to come as well but his brother had been manipulated by Zouken into growing bitter and resentful of Kariya and refused, which was sad because as kids they had been close. it also stated that Zouken did intend to have Kariya marry Aoi due to her magus traits and they greater potential it would bring to the Matou family, but Kariya's departure caused the wedding to be planned off. He never told Aoi because he thought it didn't matter, even if Aoi knew there was nothing the 2 of them could do. That's why he basically tries to do it himself to save Sakura, as he feels his lack of voice then doomed her, and believing Tokiomi was nothing but exactly like the magi who rejected him before, believed it was pointless to talk to him. In Fate Stay/Night, and in the fanfic, it's brought up that Tokiomi gave Sakura away to Zouken hoping she'd be safe from inner magi circles who'd chase after her and abuse her for her power, and was in a desperate state due to preparations for the 4th grail war. Kariya's fatal flaw was both his desire to keep Aoi happy at the expense of vital intel, and his hatred for magi, as his outburst against Tokiomi was part of a build up that had started ever since the magus association refused to stop Zouken for what happened to his mother.
I read a fanfic on what may have happened had Kariya told him. After telling Tokiomi what Zouken's doing, Tokiomi is unnerved but states that he was worried about Sakura's survival due to other magi circles, and after Zouken offered to train her as a head magi so she'd be safer, though Kariya tells him Zouken's using her as a tool and want to gain immortality, he has no intention to train her as a mage. Realizing his mistakes, Tokiomi inevitably agrees, and after a while manages to get Gilgamesh to join them to storm the Matou mansion. Kirei comes with them and brings Aoi, stating that since she's Sakura's mom she should go as well, though Kariya is against it. Unfortunately, their plan is screwed over due to Zouken using the Crest Worms to overtake Kariya's command seals and control Berserker, and Kirei chooses then to screw them over even worse by stabbing Tokiomi and killing him. Zouken then has Lancelot grab Aoi by the neck to strangle her. Kariya manages to break through and uses his command seal to order Lancelot to fight Gilgamesh and Kirei while he fights Zouken, and by that, I mean he gets his insides destroyed due to Zouken's magic. However, Kiritsugu and Saber manage to catch up and Kiritsugu kills Zouken with the Origin Round. Saber ends up cornered by Gilgamesh as the man pronounces to make her his, but Berserker makes a dive bomb to stop him, and through using a powerful weapon he stole from Gilgamesh during their fight, manages to stab him and end him, but has his armor broken and helmet lost due to Gate of Babylon, fatally wounded. With his last breath, he asks Saber to kill him so that he can be free and atone for what he did, though Arturia replies he had no need to atone. Berserker took one last mad charge at her with Arondight, forcing her to kill him. Kairya wins his fight with Kirei as in canon, and things proceed the same. However, there is a bit of light in the end when Kariya tells Sakura to not let the life of a magus consume her and to live her own life and makes friends, before dying. I do admit what you said was right though on his flaws as a person, but I enjoyed the story as it told a believable what if that wasn't a happy ending, but did allow Kariya to succeed at something and give Sakura a ray of hope for her future.
Aleczandxr I wouldn’t say it was for self interest. He hated Tokiomi for giving up his daughter to Zouken. Nobody knows Zouken more than Kariya and it irked him to his core that the woman he loved just naively believes that giving up their daughter to that psychopathic worm is something that just happens in the mages world.
To him Tokiomi is just as bad as Zouken for willingly giving his daughter away to be raped and violated by worms simply because she’s the second born and to have an alliance.
He went through so much to save Sakura and lost himself in the process. He was broken and was dying from the inside. Then he snaps when he’s accused of killing Tokiomi by the woman he loved and she just blurts our he did this because he’s jealous of the him for having her.
Giving up your life, your future, your sanity, the freedom he had all to save the daughter they threw away, and he’s accused of petty jealousy.
Any normal man who’s on the brink of collapse would snap and lash out. Accusing his actions of sacrifice as nothing more than a pathetic attempt to get laid.
The Matous magic is well known throughout the mages association.
They know about the crest worms, and the process to get them and what they do to the body.
It’s no secret, Kirei and Rin knew this in Stay/Night.
Why would Tokiomi not??
He knew what he was getting his daughter into and couldn’t care less. All he cares about is reaching the root.
I remember when I started watching Zero I was literally convinced that Kariya Matou was the main protagonist and got confused as to why the "Mage killer" suddenly became the main guy.
Ha, the pilot definitely puts a deceiving amount of emphasis on Kariya.
Poor Kariya
The scene that takes place in the grail is one of the most haunting and unsettling scenes of any medium in my opinion. The way it transitions between each horrific epiphany, the phone conversation told by his own voice. If it was live action, I can't imagine myself being able to watch it. Mostly because I'm a giant wuss when it comes to horror, but still.
One of my favourite scenes within the show, for sure. I can't imagine having your life's work so viscerally and slowly taken apart before your eyes.
7:41 With Kariya it's important to analyse him in a japanese perspective and not a western perspective.
In the west someone like Kariya is a good guy at the beginning of the story because he turned away from Zouken.
But in Japan his behavior is considered insulting as he shifted his responsibilities out of personal considerations leaving poor Sakura to bear the burden. It's put in stark contrast to Aoi whom despite her discontent swallow her pride and accept her responsibility just as Tokiomi does.
That's what makes what he did impressive and naive in equal measures to a greater extent for both than if you were to see this from a purely western standpoint.
That's were I disagree, now I could very possibly be wrong but I don't see Kariya as a naive man in this context, but as a man who acts out of guilt, thinking he can "make up" for what he caused out of sheer egoism. The irony being that he's still an egoist as he clearly never consulted anyone about their feeling and on the few instances he get a return from someone he discard it. Even Sakura doesn't seem to wish for a savior as much as she seems to wish for a friend to be with her. But for Kariya what others want doesn't matter, only he does.
He didn't come across that extremely self-interested or prideful in the novel, but it has been a little while since I read it so meh.
Well maybe not self interested but rather oblivious to the feelings of others.
Also great video I just discovered your channel, love it :)
Cheers!
Yeah that End of Honor scene is essentially perfect. Literally every aspect we see from the moment Kiritsugu starts to manipulate Kayneth to the end of Kiritsugu and Saber’s moral and philosophical debate is depicted absolutely beautifully. The line you mentioned from Kiritsugu about the battlefield being hell itself is also one of my favorites ever.
Kirei is a really complex Character
My connected was with Kiritsugu, the 2 back story episodes are deep and reversals of each other, the first deals with his inability to kill when it was for the greater good and as a result the entire town suffered, the second during his early adulthood under natalia was reversed in that he now had the ability to pull the trigger or do the deed when needed and it would save many more people however the pain and loss and was no less either way, dammed if you do, dammed if you don't, a paradox.
The Anime destroying Kiritsugu's phylosophy of quantitative Utilitarism was crazy and kind of eye opening too if you think about it
these are actually that good, keep it up man
Thanks bro, I will.
Rider is basically Robert Baratheon
no, rider is Daenerys Targaryen.
ptolemy008 Iskander is Iskander, he is no cheap knock off or imitation of some god forsaken characters. period.
P.S. Before i get bombarded and pelted by pissed off GoT fans let me make this clear, this was a joke. I love GoT, watched all 6 seasons and looking forward to 7.so please no hate? :'(
lol Daenarys is based on Alexander you little snowflake.
ptolemy008, Fate Zero Rider is way more likable then Daenerys
Saber is female Ned Stark. Kiritsugu is Stannis.
I watched this show in middle school and I think saber and lancer gave me my sense of honor.
This video deserves much much more viewes and attention
It is so well done
Thanks!
Damn it every time Phantom rouge pops up i get goosbumps.
Some quality tunes my good sir
Did saber really understand this fact in the end of Fate/Zero? I said this because saber's realisation is one the major theme in ‘Fate’ route of Fate/Stay Night. Saber is actually very similar to Kiritsugu. Just their ideals are different. Saber think that forgiveness and sympathy can save her kingdom. She can save save her kingdom by fighting alone and protecting others. It is not bad thing. But this ideal started to consume her. She became the part of her ideal. She started to lose her humanity and become anti social toward their mist trusted people. She take the decision of most realistic approach but her behaviour started people to despise her. She sacrifices a small villages to save others in most quantity many times. But people wanted a best result and started to question her not because of debate that js it most realistic approach or not but because of her inhuman behaviour. She should create atleast create a fake hope for their people but she crushes their hope with true reality. Her attachment to ideal not with people lead her anger toward herself.
Yeah, she does.
@@Aleczandxr yeah if i remember, urobouchi called the relationship between the main character and Saber resembled the relationship in fate route as "between a boy and a boy who became a girl" and more "corresponded to the ancient Greek understanding of love".
Well btw your video is really great.
Great video. Can´t believe I got here so late, It´s one of the best analysis I seen of my favourite anime of all time!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! Nice that people are still finding and enjoying my first video ever.
@@Aleczandxr thanks to you for making such great content. I watched many of your videos but never noticed these ones!
Kirei can best be described as a nihilistic sociopath in my opinion. However, his whole life he was probably told and taught by the church how to live and think and was unable to truly grasp his true nature. Hence the constant changing in specialization (kept changing his studies) in order to perhaps find himself and his purpose, but to no avail. Finally realizing his true nature after his many dialogs with the gilded personification of ego himself, Gilgamesh. Agreeing with what you said, just nerding out about it a bit.
Yep, nihilistic sociopath basically nails Kirei. As you say, learning from the Church was a problem for him, as it taught him that he was not morally "normal." He put himself through physical and mental torture to try and punish any tainted thoughts in order to try and reach enlightenment, but never found it until Gilgamesh. (Who actually taught him about a different sort of enlightenment)
Agreed. Huh, being enlightened to your inner darkness...Irony at its finest.
Endarknessened
Unlightened
No Gilgamesh character exploration? D=
Either way, wonderful video.
There'll probably be a GIlgamesh video in the future. Thanks.
Aleczandxr ...THE HYPE IS REAL, i shall remain patient o.o
There isn't much about Gilgamesh inside Fate/Zero though there more in the LN and VN but you need all the other sources where he is involved to have a full character depth.
Mori Takara that's not hard, since it's easier to count the fate series he is NOT in....there is apocrypha....and there's that.
For me Kayneth is more than a just a tool in the story and added contributed to the plethora of tragedies that is what the story is meant to be.
He wanted to participate in the holy grail war to gain glory and, in my mind at least, gain the affection of Sola by aweing her with his abilities and superiority to others which he believed due to his birth status, but instead everything was taken from him one by one.
Firstly, after he summoned lancer, Sola fell in love with lancer, distancing their relationship.
After that, he lost his pride after driven off the battlefield after the first actual fight and being ridiculed by Sola for his cowardliness for standing back and letting lancer do all the fighting, which could have put thoughts at the back of his mind saying that he was both an incompetent master who cannot control his servant as well as an incompetent mage who cannot fight/support in the front lines as his competitors had. It also showed her being driven further away from him as she now looks at him in contempt.
His pride of his abilities as a mage was again attacked when his labyrinth used as a security system which he bragged about to the one he was trying to impress was destroyed almost instantly by Kiritsugu as he bypassed it by destroyed the building they were in. He attempts to salvage this reputation as a formidable mage by attacking Kiritsugu and fails and he loses his ability to use magic.
Sola then took the opportunity and threatened to torture him unless he would give his command seals to her so that she would be closer to lancer, crushing his hope of gaining her affection.
Now he had almost lost everything, his pride, the one he loves and his ability to use magic, but he still had a glimmer of hope of recovering everything if he could use lancer to win the holy grail war.
He then loses that as Kiritsugu later threatens to kill Sola unless he forfeited his participation in the holy grail war, he resigned, probably thinking what even though this pride was shattered and his ability to use magic lost, Sola would still live as despite what Sola did to him, he still loved her, but even that was taken from him as Kiritsugu had them both killed after he had done what Kiritsugu asked.
I also didn't think as highly of Karya. I thought he was a bit arrogant as he never thought of anyone but his own of view. He had a black and white idea of what the situation was, he was the good guy that would do anything to ensure the people he loves were happy and his romantic rival, Tokyomi, was the bad guy that didn't care about his family, the people Karya loves, giving his daughter, Sakura, to another mage family to suffer. He didn't think of why Tokyomi did what he did, he just assumed it was because he was a mage and that mages were evil who did evil things.
Even after Tokyomi tells Karya that his giving of Sakura was out care for his family's happiness and that because of his actions both of his daughters could be mages and that that being a mage is the greatest thing that could happen to anyone, Karya simply ignores his words and continues to insult him instead of explaining how Tokyomi is wrong, that bathing in worms with sharp teeth did not equal happiness, which would have increased the chances of saving Sakura.
I definitely agree that Kariya was narrow-minded, naive and ironically pretty selfish. My views on him have shifted since making this video.
These seems to be your, first videos (if you dont have another channel) and it seriously dont look like it, you do great analysis and I'm looking forward to see more of them(i have already seen a few in the past 2 hour from this comment xD). You seem like someone that i would love to discuss about anime and since you speak about characters in this part of Fate/Zero's analysis and being a fan of Fate/Zero and nasuverse who played Fate/Stay Night visual novel(althougt not other games like Fate/Grand Order) I'm going to state my opinion of the three kings.
First I will go with Saber, she is a knight, there is no better word for her, she cares about honor and protect her people, a perfect ruler prepared to free her kingdom from bad, a beautiful thing indeed but ,in the end ,is horrible. You said that and the anime itself, she doesn't lead, only protects and not only it goes back because there is a rebelion and she loose her life but because when she dies his kingdom is hopeless without his king, like a child without his mother. Its important the concept of the zoroastrian deidity Angra Mainyu, all world's evil, an uthopia is imposible and there cant be a perfect ruler or a ethernal kingdom. Arturia is a knight and a hero, that kind of hero so shiny that can't be human, that kind of hero that becomes a king, a mistake becouse a knight.
The next I'm going to speak about is Iskandar(Alejandro Magno), the complete oposity, he is not only a selfish conqueror and great strategist, his great power is inspire. Great, Magno, all people wanted to be like him, he was a tyrant yes(in history he burned a couple of polis in Greece in revolts in his first years) but he united all greeks and leaded them to places nobady could thing(he even made it to India), he can make you feel like you can do everything and conquer the world. He is clearly a guy for conquer and a bad king for peace, but i dont think there would be peace in a kingdom with him, when he finished the persians, he looked for more wars. When he died, his generals took his lands and their dynasties fought centuries to retake the old macedonian empire, the were all ''inspired'' and it didnt go well. Iskandar is a conqueror, a general and a leader, but he lead with his selfish desires, both his weakness and strenght as a king.
I will lastly talk about Gilgamesh, i have not see the part 3 yet and i dont know if you speak of him in, i also know im repeating some things you say in the video but i wanted to state my thoughts and some key words being knight and hero for Saber; conqueror and leades for Rides and for Gilgamesh, it would be funny becouse they are king or god, being those titles that doesnt have to imply a certain personality(there are diferents kings such as saber and rider and diferent gods like Odin and Loki with different values) but in all Fate/Zero, and less inf Fate/ Stay Night when Gilgamesh steps in, whether he is good or evil i cant stop thinking that he is, indeed, a king more than the two others. Saber could live being a hero protecting the weak, Rider could be a general but when you see Gilgamesh you know he will be in no other side that in the top of the world or dead, no other outcome. He could be like facing Zeus, there are others smarter or stronger but no other than him should be in top and i think king of heroes only goes for his Noble Fantasm but thats a title better for Saber. One thing about Gilgamesh is that his will is beyong understanding, in the end of VN in the path of Saber it is said that at the end of Fate/Zero he was "absorbed" by Angra Mainyu and Saber in the begining thougt that drove him mad but she later discobers that he is not mad, he endured all evil in the world, a power similar that the one which made
(alert spoiler) Saber became Saber Alter in Heaven's Fell, and she also thought that being him "evil", selfish and proudfull bastard, he was truly a king, that is a sentiment that i thought i was the only that had it but i have discussed it with others and they agree. One last thing is that he actually cares for human life and the precious of one individual, he even feel pity about hommunculus because they are intended to be tools and have sentiments, the thing is that seeing him life like a treasure he said that in the past 10 slaves were presented in front of him and he couldnt decide someone who had a meaningless life but being him in our present he sees millions of people and he starts to thinks there are too many humans in the world, a treasure repeated millions of times is not a treasure any more. In the end he is the ultimate King or God or God Kings, the same meaning, he is on the top and all things are his treasures, he actually cares of them and want them to stay alright but he is not kind and you couldnt put him with the rest of humans, doesnt seem actually bad but i think that would be not unterstimate of human life but of human free will because he ask the humanity to act as he wishes because he is at the top, thats not fair. One last thing, he would kill almost the entire humanity for his ideal of humanity, prety nasty.
Thanks for writing all this, I love when I see people that are passionate about fantastic work like F/Z. Thanks very much for your kind words about my videos. That's awesome that we have similar tastes, that can be hard to find sometimes.
As you definitely know by now, I didn't cover Gilgamesh very much in the series analysis. There is a possibility of a character analysis video for him in the future, though.
I've seen your MAL and we have fairly similar tastes xDD, i dont think im gonna see ff or the witcher videos though, I didnt play those games. That being said im quite happy to say my opinion, also in other than my main language, because i'm spanish :P
The thing with Rider, he never was a king during peace times. His entire rule he was at war and when he was done, he died either of alcohol poisoning or poison poisoning
Just finished UBW and if I never saw Zero maybe I could have found more enjoyment in it, but after having it follow the masterpiece that was Zero, I was pretty much just pissed off through the entire show.
it is said that
While Lancer follows the codes of chivalry during the War, it would be possible to have him to use underhanded tactics to have a better chance at claiming the Grail. Convincing him that Heaven's Feel is filled with filth instead of an honorable battleground with other heroes and avoiding contact with Saber to keep him from awakening his Chivalric Pride would allow him to utilize Gae Buidhe in a hit and run strategy. Briefly engaging opponents in order to land precise hits with the spear and then retreat would become the main form of attack. He would not directly engage them, allowing him to cripple his opponents one by one by repeatedly attacking them. The other tactic would involve manipulating or taking advantage of Team Berserker in order to let Berserker defeat other Servants and fight him in the final battle.
Also kiritsugu and big boss (metal gear series) should somehow meet and fight. Kiritsugu is the definition of the snake eater.
One thing I love about the show is the use of wine as a juxtaposition between Gil using red wine to seduce Kirei who viewed his wish as evil to Kayneth who viewed his wish as good, but both having the two wishes most driven by people who were ok with their selfish wish.
18:19 that’s what exactly Pain said in Naruto.
So, Raider is Robert Baratheon(?)
gil didn't kill weaver because the original fsn writer told urobucher not to. I sure urobucher has no problem killing him
In the visual novel it says that Saber was willing to sack one village to save the rest of her kingdom and continued on with her beliefs despite what those around her did or said so l don't get why she was against Kiritsugu at least not entirely because she lived a lot like him.
Anyway, you made me contemplate on certain things that l have been thinking about Kiritsugu. Like in his quest to kill evil he kinda became evil and set out on a never ending battle. Plus, even if Kerry kills all evil people then he still needs to fix other issues that push people to do evil acts like poverty and other societal woes. I mean no one just wakes up and does evil unless maybe their crazy but usually there's a reason for it. Also, it also makes me wonder what exactly Kerry's utopia would be because even if the grail could grant such a wish if it was not maintained then it would devolve into chaos once more and in a way Kerry would be forcing his vision onto everyone and how would he go about judging who is evil and who is good because there are varying levels. There is also the problem of protecting the innocent and rebuilding since Kerry is an executioner and sometimes kills innocent people or destroys things to get to the guilty then who would repair that damage and in the case of the Fuyuki fire the survivors had their lives destroyed and if unable to rebuild may turn to a life of crime. Basically in his quest to become a hero Kerry became the very thing he sought to destroy and he became arrogant in thinking that only he alone could save world and only his methods were correct. Sorry for the ramble just wanted to get my thoughts out there.
I wisht the Insectguy had more Streemtime. He is so a Interesting Charakter. But also too naive too avoid beeng controlled by others. But too be fair Insects eat half of his Brain. And the strangulationszene? Insects eat him from the Inside, he was set on fire, he become the Punchingball of the War and the Woman he love care for him so less, what she cant even understand his Motivation. I would be much, mucht crazyer.
Actually, Alexander died before he could rule in times of peace, and, despite being a super fun and well built character, he is a bit too old to be Alexander the great ( who also was very feminine in appearence, at least according to the statues of him).
Jacopo Armini If I remember correctly, there was a funny scene in F/Z with Waver and Rider regarding this issue. Waver holds out a book and asks Rider why he's so different than how he's depicted in history books (Alexander was supposed to be short) and Rider says something aling these lines, "Guess you can't really trust that kind of stuff!"
Ironically, Rider looks strikingly similar to a famous statue of his father: Philip II of Macedon.
i.pinimg.com/originals/38/53/38/385338ee7655b20b6ffce4bf4dd44f8b.jpg
@@ireneflamel9899 The more in-depth explanation in the Fate universe as to why people mistakenly thought Alexander was short was because of an anecdote of Darius III's throne being way too big for Alexander. In the Fate universe, turns out that the real reason for it was because Darius III was an absolute unit, standing at 345cm (for comparison, Alexander in Fate is 212cm).
I would like to add to the discussion of Kirei, in that it is said form what I remember that He begins to feel nothing after losing his wife. Though I would agree with him being a psychopath, I thought it was also a tale of his grief making him empty and purposeless without his love. This could be just a small point, but I thought I deserved attention, considering though I didn't decide to kill anyone because of it, I did relate to the grief of losing a loved one with similar (almost) indifference and feeling of pointlessness.
Interesting theory, but it's been well established in the source material that Kirei felt nothing before AND after his wife's death. He didn't care about her at all, there was really no grief there. And thanks for sharing, I'm sorry for whatever loss you may have experienced.
Rider is one of my favorite characters. However, I feel as though there is some subtlety to him, most notably his intelligence. You can tell right away that when he is summoned that he is a tactician. Also, there is how he hides his intelligence. There are some instances where there will be a distinct pause before he laughs. This is where he is gauging a situation or analyzing a person (best shown in the banquet of kings scene). He behaves this way do to his philosophy of kingship. He knew that his men didn't want to be scholarly, they wanted the simple, brash, epicness that he displays.
Rider is incredibly intelligent, for sure. It's a mistake for anyone to forget that just because his boldness is so overpowering.
Yeah. It's really cool to see since the real Alexander the great was a student of Aristotle. The way they subtlety weave this in with his philosophy on kingship is amazing. And I love how even if you miss it you can still love rider as a character. I only recently found your channel, but I can already tell it's pretty awesome. Keep up the good work.
loved the 3 videos, but you got a bit wrong about Diarmuid, what happend is that, after gráinne falling in love with him because of the curse on his face, she also cast a spell on him to "always follow her"... he didn't voluntarilly fell for her... they runaway together, had 5 children, always hidden from Fion, then, years later, he comes back to try to redeem with his former master, they go hunting, and then he is fatally injured by a boar, fullfilling the curse casted upon his father by Aengus (your son will be killed by the boar reincarnation of the person you killed).
it's sad how magic made diarmuid a slave of destiny his entire life.
Anime is all about characters... Plot may be changed on a whim but character dont change they evovlees. Thats whats important
I would say that Saber and Berserker's relationship was a bit more complicated than: Saber screwed up as a king and Berserker suffered for it. This is seen how Berserker's final words are an inner monologue stating that despite falling to madness for not being admonished for his crimes, in the end he truly believes that Saber was the greatest of all kings and that he knows all who followed her believed the same. He does not claim it was the wrong decision, rather he seems to see himself as the problem: a dishonorable knight who took advantage of a kindhearted ruler, kind of like how Lancer saw himself, only not driving himself mad over it (this makes sense as Diarmuid's story is thought to be a precursor to the Lancelot tale). It is a philosophical debate whether or not Saber did right or wrong as a leader, but Berserker himself does not hate Saber for it, rather hating himself and trying to force her to enact the retribution he believes he deserves, and receives, through their final battle.
So would I.
17:10, actually it wasn't just a disease, it was a plague of zombirific proportions.
The plague was caused by a Dead Apostle, basically a zombie vampire. It would turn an entire city within a day into a zombie world just like in Kiritsugu's backstory. This will in turn will cause the mage association and church to purge the entire city. Truly the many over the few.
Meh, semantics. I knew exactly what it was but I should've chosen a different word there.
fate illya prisma is the true successor to fate/zero
What would Kayneth and Tokiomi have thought of each other? They seem quite similar but I don't recall them ever meeting.
Kayneth was looking forward to his Dumbledore vs Voldemort style battle with Tokiomi. He knew that it would be a battle worthy of his best efforts. The difference between the two was that Kayneth was a genius who had everything easy and Tokiomi was mediocre (by Kayneths standards; he was still by far the second best mage in the war) who became powerful by working like a lunatic. They both knew that kayneth was a water and wind mage while tokiomi was just a fire mage giving Kayneth the advantage (even Kiritsugu was an earth and fire mage who ignored his affinity)
19:21 Gilgamesh vs Shirou was kinda shit, But holy shit, Shirou vs archer is definitely as good as the climax of Fate/Zero.
Thanks for bringing up Keyneth. Many people dismiss him as an asshole, which he kinda is, but ignore some factors. One being the fact that lancer's mole enchanted his fiancee, even though lancer could've easily covered the spot with some rag. Also, while Keyneth was fighting Kiritsugu and he got shot for the first time, he wasn't being arrogant when saying he was careless when defending, because that was true. He ahd been blocking the 9mm rounds with his mercury, but wasn't prepared for the heaver caliber bullet. He then proceeds to put all of his mana to defense, which is the correct choice. The only mistake he made was that he didn't know kiritsugu had an OP mystic code. Overall the guy has a very good reason to be mad at his servant who 1) Enchanted his fiancee 2) Didnt understand the means of war and put honor before everything else (still love you diarmuid). He was an excellent mage and had a reason to be proud. It's just too bad people cast him off as an asshole.
Could someone tell me the name of the track that starts playing at 8:33?
Well as much as I like Rider in this interpretation, his character strays quite a bit from what the actual Alexander would have been like. Both are charismatic, proud and straightforward, but I feel like Alexander was much more of a leader and emperor, while Rider is more of a warlord, as stated in the video. Alexander did not only conquer the lands in his wake. He introduced them to the civilization he brought from the far west while also giving them enough leeway to stay true to their own, nevertheless under Macedonian rule. At the end of the day, he was indeed the cause of his own failure. He had progressed to far into the known world and his army was significantly weakened by the time they faced the Indian empire, while a retreat to his homeland would pose a threat to the sovereignty of his expanded kingdom, later proven by the inability of his successors to keep it in one piece. However Alexander was also a man of reason, compassion and honor. I think the following can help in figuring out his character a bit more. There is a popular story of Alexander meeting with Diogenes, a cynical philosopher, contemporary to Plato. Already king to Macedonia, Alexander wanted to meet the renowned Diogenes, who frowned upon the civil, the pompous and the pretentious aspects of humanity. He travelled to Korinthos to do so and upon their meeting, Alexander asked if he wanted to grant him anything. Diogenes answered, in a remarkably ambiguous manner "Rid me of the darkness" which out of context would generally mean "grant me knowledge", but what Diogenes joked about was the fact that Alexander's shadow was blocking the sun from him. And to that mockery Alexander answered "If I wasn't born Alexander, I would rather be born Diogenes". More than anything, Alexander was a man that stood above the rest, yet could still recognise the worth in a man and respect ideologies that weren't harmonious with his general conduct.
dont shit on my namesake Assassin
This is an amazing analysis, but you really need to be careful about the word "Quality" when talking about Fate, since it has a certain connotation from the old days of the studio DEEN adaption of Fate/Stay Night.
Every time you said the word quality, the images of off model characters and Emiya saying "People Die if they are killed." popped into my head.
actually kirie had a wife, its implied that his decent to madness was due to being lost after losing her and he found a sick meaning in life
I've read the light novel and that's actually not true at all. He didn't care about his wife and found some joy in her death.
Jesus Christ, that's sick. the anime screwed the pooch there
DeathgGod Well, not really imo. The anime had others assuming that the death of his wife affected him, but Kirei himself never stated that and actually said that he had never felt desire for anything throughout his life. The anime handled it fine imo, but obviously this is just my opinion.
Kirei talks about his wife in Heaven's Feel. He knew that his wife had some kind of terminal illness, but married her anyway. During her last moments, after Kirei had already talked to her about not knowing if he was actually sad about her death and his worry about his emotions, she looks up to him and says that the waters from his eyes are proof he's crying and has real emotions.
It was outside, and it was in the rain. I love how that scene leaves things just a little bit ambiguous.
Yet, he says he wished he was the one that killed her. :P
THIS is why I think Fate/Zero succeeded where Fate/Stay Night failed.
We're not only told the flaws and dangers of Kiritsugu's philosophy, but are shown in it's full gruesome conclusion just how it destroyed him. Contrast that with Fate/Stay Night where it's message pretty much amounted one character spending spending a good chunk of time just ranting about how much Shirou's philosophy sucks, and then have him stick to his guns and still get his girl and happy ending. F/SN just came across as shallow, hypocritical and pretentious in the end.
I swear if i could beat kirei kotomine to death with a golf club every day id be the happiest man alive
The one thing that always confused me was that during the banquet of kings, we saw Rider and Saber's ideology of being a king, but we never truly saw Gilgamesh's standpoint. Whether it would be an agreement with Rider's, a deconstruction of saber's or one that was just genuinely flawed, it would have been a nice to see more of Gilgamesh's viewpoints as a character during that heavy scene.
He thinks of himself as a perfect person with a god-like complex. Or a man that sees himself as a holy enigma of gods, and that he is neither a mortal or of godly descent. He is a badass, but showing some of his views on kingship as well as his personality would have been (in my opinion) a good way to see a clash of ideologies, especially when it comes down to the battle between him and rider in the last few episodes of the series.
Well, Gilgamesh is, by his nature, a character who would not discuss ideals related to kingship. To him, all that matters about kingship is that he rules above all and owns everything. Everything else about kingship is "beneath him" so he contents himself with amusingly watching from the sidelines. He doesn't really talk about his ideals because he doesn't have any, other than the fact that vassals should live to serve his every whim and be grateful for it. If he were to contribute ideas to this talk that it would be in conflict with his hierarchical detachment to the whole thing, I think. And this is perfect for me - it offers balance to the character dynamics. Not to mention, we already had plenty of ideological battles throughout the narrative.
@@Aleczandxr 4 years late but these came up again on my recommended: The thing about Gilgamesh is he actually *is* better than everyone else, categorically. He's 2/3 god (presumably because the babylonians hadn't figured out how genealogy works, as that's physically impossible), clairvoyant, and was tasked as a child to be one who rules over humankind. Archer Gilgamesh is summoned in his prime just before he met Enkidu, the only person who could stand beside him as an equal. Most of the evil things he did were a result of him trying to reshape mankind into his ideal. His ideal being mostly that the world should serve under him. (Though this is corrupted and amplified by the grail mud that hits him, as well as the slight influence Master personality has on a Servant. Not enough for Gil to notice, but enough to change him.) And when we see this in the Babylonia singularity his society is actually run really well.
Eventually the people of Uruk got fed up of him overstepping his bounds by invoking, among other things, sleeping with every new bride before their husbands. They prayed to the gods for a solution, who in turn created Enkidu. Enkidu was horrified and repulsed by some of the things Gilgamesh did, and considering he stood as an equal and friend to Gilgamesh, Gil took note. And when Enkidu was returned to the clay, it was a reality check to him. Even he would die. This and the loss of his friend eventually coalesced into him becoming more wise and mellow, something like humanity's ideal king, the wedge between the age of man and the age of gods. Though he retained his haughtiness, he was less brutal about it, and worked to make sure his kingship was perfect. That was his purpose in life.
Gilgamesh didn't need ideals... him being the king was simply fact, and nobody else's opinion (aside from Enkidu's) mattered (hence why the gods had to step in). This aspect of his character was actually preserved even to the mellower form of him. Gilgamesh is... simply one who was separate from and above humanity.
I see kiritsugu like lelouch from code geass they both becames evil to stop evil
I don’t think I could analyze this anime better in a million years, however I noticed something you got wrong. Kirei is not at all a simple character. And he already had figured out that he can only find joy in the pain of others. In fact he actively did everything he could to find a “cure” for this aspect of himself. It’s not that he found a joy in causing others pain, but rather that his conversations with Gilgamesh helped him stop trying to defy his nature.
I’m aware of that, but I fail to see how that makes him complicated or complex. It’s still a simple character concept at heart. Nothing wrong with it, he’s great.
Aleczandxr well in a sense, he is complicated because for a long time he did not understand himself and was raised to believe that someone like himself was a monster. Complex is an entirely different descriptor. I don’t believe he is all too complex because he is rather straightforward on the surface. Only being able to find joy in the suffering of others is the major aspect he embodies. However his story and life choices are what make him somewhat complex. I could go much much more in depth on who he is as a character and how complicated and complex he is, but I could link a different video I watched analyzing Kotomine more in depth if you want.
I've likely seen the video you'd link, but even if I didn't I don't believe that I'm missing any knowledge about him. I've seen the anime, read the VN, etc. Him not understanding himself and believing himself to be blasphemic is very interesting, but I fail once again to see what's complicated about that dynamic. It's quite simple to me; both you and I described it in a sentence. As a contrast, I'd say that Gilgamesh is simple in characterization but complex in narrative importance for the multifaceted way in which he impacts the story. Someone like Johan Liebert (Monster) or Shaiapouf (HxH) are examples of characters that are not simple by my reckoning, due in part to the subtlety and layered way their characterization is presented and the integrative ways their philosophies are presented. But for me Kirei doesn't fit into that at all.
Regardless, it's obviously fine if you disagree, but I don't think it's fair to say that I'm "wrong" for thinking different than you when it comes to something as wildly subjective and vague as simplicity vs complexity.
Aleczandxr First off, I would like to apologize. When I made the claim that you were “wrong”, it was not intended to come off with animosity or any sort of superiority complex with an “I know better than you” attitude. I will admit you most likely are more knowledgeable about this franchise than I am. The statement was intended to represent my personal opinion on the matter that I very much agree is subjective. What one person views in a character as simple or complex is likely very different from other viewpoints. And I am completely fine with you disagreeing with me. Part of my point is that the way you and I have both described Kotomine as a characters is not all there is to him. Much of the character can not be understood without looking at Kiritsugu at the same time to see how they both mirror and contrast one another. This goes along with a common criticism that the show’s characters embody ideas rather than real people for a story. So I guess I had it backwards. Kotomine is complex. However he is not complicated. Once again this is my opinion and I very much enjoy sharing it with you and hearing your view on the subject.
@@Aleczandxr
>It’s still a simple character concept at heart
A fundamentally evil character rejecting his own vice due to his religious upbringing, only to eventually be seduced into it, is not a complex character?
I want to point out that Saber's character arc isn't truly meant to say her way as a King was objectively wrong. Rider pointed out her flaws, and she sees the horrible destruction her way of ruling brought to her kingdom. Yet, it is important to note that even Lancelot, her betrayer, talked about her with reverence (though he wasn't able to say that out loud, being a dying berserker and all that). All of her subjects thought she was the greatest king who ever lived, and for good reason. Without her leadership Britannia would have long ago fallen to the Saxon invasion, and although her kingdom was brought to ruin in the end, her efforts as a selfless king were not in vain. In a sense, she is simply a representation of one of the ways to be a King. Her path as a King was not right or wrong, it was simply one representation of the idea of a King.
TLDR: Saber's rule as a King was not simply 100% flawed and deserved to be discounted. It had the same merit as the other two rulers, Gilgamesh and Rider, each with their own ideals and merits.
Oh yeah for sure. I’m definitely aware of that, Fate/Zero isn’t condemning Saber’s ideals in any sense. It just points out the flaws in her philosophy moreso than most of the rest of the cast, aside from Kiritsugu.
@@Aleczandxr Whew, glad to hear that you can take a more nuanced stance on Saber, more so than many, who like to trash on her for being. I hope you can one day make an analysis for Shirou as well, who, along with Archer and his alternate versions, is on par with Kiritsugu in my opinion (some say you need to read the visual novel to truly understand him, I just watched UBW again several times).
I won't be making any videos on Shirou but I do think he's an awesome character in the VN!
well you are not that far off on your description of Alexander The Great. He was a master at conquering and founding major cities (to this day there are still many places he conquered that maintain the title of Alxandria out of worship or admiration to the war king) but he was not good at maintaining them since most died off soon after his own dead in his late 30's. Admirable he was as a man and general but he had much to learn on how to be a king. I do believe that if he had lived longer he would have risen to and even great legend that he already did maybe even mimiking King Solamen himself but we will never know.
Interesting. Thanks for this!
umm I like the way you analise F/Z, but I have some issues regarding your comparison with F/SN
First of all, you don't seem to understand Shirou as you think. Without much spoilers, he have an even more broken mind than Kiri. His ideals and why he pursues such a broken ideals is not that shallow. Well, since you don't read the novel, my words won't be able to convincing you much, as in the anime, he is not portrayed correctly, especially the F/SN 2006 version.
[SPOILER]
Well, if you need some proof and don't mind spoilers, I could go for a certain scene when, after Saber have seen a glimpse of his past, commented thus: "You do not try to save others at the cost of your life. You simply do not consider your own life at all.". In a nut shell he is similar to Kirei, he have no feeling toward himself. Unlike Kirei though, he can only obtain happyness from saving others. Thus leading to the mentality of putting others above himself, even to a point where he deemed that his existence is meaningless if he doesn't save others. All while he convince himself that he is a normal human being. He is not even meant to draw compassion from the readers, as his mind is something that is far more broken from the normal human mind. During the whole story, we are to slowly unveiling this brokenness, as well as observe such a broken human overcomes various hardships, both externally and internally, to appreciates the growth he obtain at the end of each Route. Built as a deconstruction of the shounen genre, the story points out the flaws of the ideal of Hero of justice itself, yet still appreciate the beauty of it, something that most other works can only do one and forget the other. And as the center of it, Shirou is, in my and many VN readers, a well thought, well written, and a very complex character, far more complex than Kiri IMO. As a side note, Kiri's character is only one of the "fail" version that Shirou can become in the VN (Bad End 30 I think).
[END OF SPOILER, I think]
Another thing that you don't know, is that F/Z was 90% constructed on plot points that had already established in F/SN. And it was originally written as bonus material for fans of F/SN. Not that the fact it is one makes it a bad thing, but basically, all the thing you praised about F/Z is in F/SN. So for VN readers like us, seeing someone bashing F/SN then praise F/Z doesn't make sense.The F/Z anime feels more completed than F/SN simply because of the fact that F/Z's story structure is simpler than F/SN. You also compare UBW, which is only 1/3 of F/SN with the entire F/Z, which is not very fair.
And finally, you are wrong in stating that the climax of UBW is at episode 24, when it is in fact at episode 20, which covers the fight between Shirou and Archer. Yeah, not Shirou vs Gil, but Shirou vs Archer. If you watched the show, you would know why I am saying this.
Sorry for the bad grammar and the wall of text.
Thanks for watching and thanks for putting all your passion into this comment - it's clear you care a lot about Fate, which is great to see! :) However, I think you misinterpreted things I said in my analysis. I understand Shirou quite well - I've researched him thoroughly and talked with people who read the VNs, before this review as well. He's a tragic deconstruction of the classic Shounen protagonist. A very unhealthy selflessness portrayed in a very deep and complex character.
I think he's a brilliant protagonist - in the visual novels. But there's a distinct difference between VN Shirou and Ufotable's UBW Shirou. As you said, UBW didn't do him justice. Unfortunately all I have to go on is the UBW anime. So I'm not "bashing" Shirou - but the way UBW portrayed him did not explore his internal state nearly enough, and made him come off as cliche and simple. So all I'm saying in my videos was that in UBW, he wasn't very effective. In the visual novel, he was a tremendous character.
On your second point, I know all of this. I know F/Z is heavily based on the visual novels. I'm not sure where you're getting that I didn't know this stuff and I was "bashing" the story of the VNs. Throughout the video, I never mention anything about the VNs except in the introduction, as I have no right to comment on them. All I was saying is that UBW had flaws in Shirou's characterization, which it did. I have total respect for the VNs and perhaps I'll read them someday.
On your third point, I was talking about the climax of Shirou's character arc, the climax of his internal development - not the climax of the entire show/plot. While the climax for the story is Shirou-Gil, the climax for his character arc and development was (in my opinion and the way UBW portrays it) his fight with Archer.
TL;DR - there was absolutely no bashing of anything F/SN or the visual novels in this analysis. I have no doubt that they are a great story. I just think UBW could have done better with Shirou's characterization. I obviously I think that F/Z is masterful, but by no means was this analysis saying that F/Z > F/SN. I know that Zero leans heavily on the VN material. I know Shirou's narrative function as a character. Hopefully you understand that not once do I say that the VNs weren't great stories or that Shirou was a bad character in the source material. Anyways, thanks for commenting!
Thank you for answering! I see that I actually is the one who misunderstand. I was ticked off by various TH-camrs who don't know things, yet talked as if they know everything, bashing F/SN while praise F/Z. So I assume that you are the same. Sorry about that!
Sms Msm Haha! No worries, my friend.
Reading all the comments from my fellow VN readers makes me want to reread the whole thing again,it was one of the first VNs I've ever played. I remember when a friend suggested me to watch FSN DEEN, but around ep 10 I just decided to get a copy of the VN and play it, and it was so freaking worth it. The whole week of class suspension back then went by like nothing because I read all three routes within the week. ever since i read FSN it started to pull me down to all TM works and now I'm a fan for almost 10 years now.
I also find that most reviewers don't really get what makes the Fate series great so I'm glad that there are many others who can. They're very underrated due to simply the limitation of Animation that VN don't have so to see one negatively critics it without getting the full picture due to simple Animation limitation rather then writing gets me more upset the if one didn't like it personally.
It truly doesn't do Stay night justice if you only compare either Deen 2006, UBW, or the both due to since both series are each just one part of the whole story.
Zero is more of a 'simpler' story to animate due to it being just one story to animate so they can focus more on it more efficently due to not having to work with "different story lines" like Stay night.
I don't know, I feel the same about this show being tons of times deeper than Unlimited Blade Works.
UBW is the clumsiest application I've seen of the concept of eternal recurrence...
Fate zero is a self contained work, while the Fate/Stay Nights are parts of a greater whole.
its the end of all endurence no mercy for assasins violence against violence and hunters will be hunted
1:55 nah Tokiomi was something more of a religious fanatic, except that his religion was being magician.
He was maniacally devoted to what magician should be and strife for.
In nasuverse almost all magicians are evil.
How is that in conflict with what I said? Also, radicalism does not necessarily equate to evil.
I watched many of your videos and I wanted to add some backstories to Fate zero. English is not my first language, so please bear with my poor choice of words and grammatical error.
Lancer did not fall in love with his lord's fiance. In his past, Grainne imposed a GEIS on him. Diarmuid had no choice but to love her. It makes lancer's story more tragic if the readers know his past. The anime is kind of misleading. Despite Diarmuid's unwilling love to Grainne, he still blame himself and consider himself unworthy of a knight. That's why his only wish is to be a knightly servant to his lord that he could not be in the past.
I watched many reviews on Tōsaka Tokiomi and it seems to me that most people despise him. However, I think if people would know more about the setting of fate universe/ moon universe, they will understand his motives to a better degree. To me Tokiomi is a good father. Storywise, being a mage is actually a sad thing. Garden of Sinners, the other work that shares the same universe, strongly emphasis on how it is to be a mage. All mages are destined to reach the Root. The more powerful the mage is, the stronger connection to the Root it is that urges mage to reach it. Tosaka is a traditional mage family that is so old that it can be traced to the time when human first tried to populate. Tokiomi are considered of no talent as a mage, especially compared to his father and forefathers. However, he managed to become the head of his family through extreme determination and hard work. That was why he fell into the dilemma that he had to choose one daughter and abandon the other because he never expected to have two daughters who both bear excessive potentials and talents. Mages with two affinities of element are considered very promising. Rin has affinity of all five elements, while Sakura has affinity of void/entropy, a extremely rare affinity. Since family crest can only go to one child, without the protection of family crest, not only did Sakura's talent would go to waste, but her talent and potentials would attract other unfriendly mages who would see her as mana supplements, and ghostly creatures that seek to subjugate her body. Tokiomi had no choice but to give up Sakura for adoption. Indeed, the two sisters one day will have to confront each other should Tokiomi failed to win the 4th Grail War. Nonetheless, being a mage has a bound beyond flesh. Reaching the Root is the very goal that ties in the soul of Tosaka family. Once one of them reach the root, the whole family will be thankful to Tokiomi's decision, including Rin and Sakura. (Rin also already knew this, that's why she didn't hate her father.) Therefore, I think Tokiomi made the right decision both as a mage and a father. He wasn't joking that one of his daughters were doomed to fall to rabbles. It's is the destiny of a mage, especially to the family so old. Tokiomi didn't not expect that, as a mage with almost no talents, he could have two daughters with such promising potential. He didn't predict this would happen and he was forced to make this hard decision. Note that in the fate universe, being a mage is not a perk.
The way Berserker joined the fights wasn't just for show or epicness. Kariya blames everything on Tokiomi. Berserker only appeared where Archer, servant of Tokiomi, showed his face in the public. The confrontation of Kariya and Tokiomi contains deeper meaning in the novels. While Kariya blames everything on Tokiomi, Tokiomi actually pointed out that all pain and suffering Kariya endured on caused by Kariya's unwillingness to take responsibility. Kariya ran away from being a mage, a long desired only child that capable to inherit Matuo's family crest., which led Matuo familty to ask for a girl from Tosaka family for adoption. He ran away from taking the responsibility to pursue someone he love, Tosaka Aoi. In Kariya's final moment, he saw Tokiomi's ghost pointing out Kayria still blames Aoi's death on Tokiomi, and Irisveil's death on Kirei.
The reason Saber made Rider so angry was not the wish to change the past. What Saber really said is that she wish to erase herself out of existence. Wishing for a salvation for her people is not quit cut it because she would still be the one who pulled out the caliber from the stone. She wanted the sword to be pulled out by anyone more worthy than her to lead her people. Such saint and martyr wish was the reason that made Rider so mad.
The only problem with this vídeo is Gilgamesh in the Quick note caracteres, the rest was Just amazing
Gilgamesh is going to get his own video.
Please do an analysis of Johan Liebert and who is actually the true Monster
My biggest grievance with the Show is that they made Gilgamesh a Blonde!
The idea is that Gilgamesh is 2/3rds god. The gods of Mesopotamia are naturally blonde and thus, Servant Gilgamesh is summoned as a blonde.
Sumerian G-ds are blonde?
Beni Habibi Being fair haired was a trait associated with divinity, yes.
LordSpectreXIII I thought that was just a Greco-Roman thing. also, Gilgamesh is Sumerian, a place that literally means "land of the black-haired"
Beni Habibi the people are black haired, the gods are not. that's kinda the point
It's sad to think that Kiritsugu's entire way of life was just crushed so swiftly however it was always wrong.
He may have wanted good to come from his actions but his guiding philosophy just ensured a lifetime miserably chasing a phantom.
The way the world is now we need to kill the many to save the few. The majority are intrinsicly morally deformed and less than human when you really think about. This has just been hereditarily past down through observations, schools of thought, and weak willed individuals who can't resist these two points.
Only a select percent of people deserve mercy, compassion, and empathy. Saber's rule of altruism proves that she and Kiritsugu were just meant for each other. In a reverse of how it would initially appear that kotomine and Kiritsugu were the same, Saber and Kiritsugu turned out to be almost the same kind of fools.
A bit late to the party but better late than never eh?
Loved your video although I do disagree on some points.
Saber's wish was to undo her kingship. She thought she was never fit to be king and wished to make it so that she was never king. That way her country would not be led to its inevitable demise. At the end of F/Z her resolve to undo everything only grew as she saw how her kingship has led to Lancelot's madness. That's way in the final scene she said that next time she would definitely win the Holy Grail. She thinks her mistake was that she became king. Not that her selflessness was not how a king or even a person should act.
Kotomine Kirei's (this will spoil the Heaven's Feel route so if you wanna watch the movies spoil free don't read this) source of pleasure was actually known to him even before the events of F/Z. As a child he discovered that he derives pleasure from the suffering and anguish of others. His wife was a very frail and weak person and the only reason he married her was to further observe her suffering much closer. When his wife dies, he was sad. But not because his wife is gone. But because he wasn't the one to actually kill him. The problem with him is that even with those characteristics, he still have morals and values hence he knows that enjoying the pain and suffering of others is wrong. This puts him in a contradiction. He knows it's wrong to be evil, but he cannot help it since he derives pleasure from evil acts. This makes him a very complex and very interesting character.
UBW's climax was not shallow in the slightest. Shirou's fight with Gilgamesh isn't even the climax of UBW. It's the fight between Shirou and Archer. It's the clash between one whose ideal is to save everyone he can see and one who have done that and know how it will end for him. I don't have much to say about that since I can't explain it properly (I haven't read the vn in years). It just saddens me that people think Fate/staynight is a shallow sequel to Fate/Zero because the MC is a naive ginger when in fact it is as dark and complex as F/Z and a lot of people have only watched just one part of the story which is UBW (F/sn 2006 doesn't count because fuck DEEN). You should have watched/read about all three routes of Fate/staynight in order to understand it as a whole.
Sorry for my wall of text and thanks to anyone who actually read it.
Thanks for watching.
You’re misinterpreting my statement on UBW. Firstly, I know the climax is with Archer. I never vocalized that it was with Gilgamesh, but I used the clip with him because all I did was look for any random action clip from UBW to include in that section. It was lazy, yeah, but this was literally my first video ever. Cut me some slack, lol.
Also, I am ONLY talking about the story presented in the anime, NOT the story itself. When I criticized UBW’s climax I was only referring to the story structure in the anime. The VN is a different beast. I haven’t read the VNs and as such can’t comment on their quality, but I do have knowledge of certain story elements from the VN so I can say with confidence that Ufotable really dropped the ball on Shirou by not properly giving the audience an introspection into his internal dilemma and agony. Combine that with the fact that it’s a story meant to rely on the two other routes for the full emotional impact and thematic depth (which you yourself have admitted), and that means that the UBW anime climax was (while visually fantastic) underwhelming and shallow thematically. I’m sure the climax in the VN was brilliant, but I can only judge the story in the anime as an anime and on its own merits. It’s an inherent problem with adapting one third of a complete story - things that worked well in the VN will be shallow in anime format.
I would follow Rider till the end of the world.
Can you post part 1 please
what is the music called in the background during kirei and kiritsugus analysis. ive looked everywhere cant find it
I believe it's entitled "The Beginning of the End" off the Fate/Zero OST.
+Aleczandxr thanks
1:39 Evangelion, anyone?
what is the name of the first song of the video?
What is the name of the ost at the beginning?
What happened to part 1 of this video series? It seems to have disappeared as well as several of your other Fate/Zero analyses.
One has been reuploaded on my second channel and the other two are currently privatized. I talked about this on my Twitter months ago. I’d recommend following it and subscribing to my second channel for issues like these.
@@Aleczandxr Thanks for the quick response. I noticed that one video was available on your other channel but I was more curious about the first part of this analysis series since the two follow up videos are left hanging without the first part. I'll definitely be keeping a closer eye on your twitter in the future though.
What conclusion did you make from Fate Zero and the characters' ideologies to make the world a better place?
Admirable but hopelessly naive in most cases.
So how would you go about to make the world a better place?
Dhivaan Salig There is only one true way to do that, and the show more or less tells us this when Kiritsugu's ideology was deconstructed. Only by removing those who make the world worse would bring a better world about. This leads to a large amount of conflict and death. Since those types of people will simply reemerge in future generations, any attempt to make a better world is ultimately pointless. People need to learn to accept the world, flaws and all, instead of trying to change it. The world is imperfect, as everyone knows. With countless flaws and contradictions, no one could possibly correct this reality. Notice how I say learn to accept, instead of simply learn. Knowing the truth is one thing, accepting it is another, and a great many would have to go through hell just to see these flaws.
Maybe but we still should do something to make our planet last, like save endangered animals and the world's habitats and even stop psychopaths and even change corrupt laws. We can make changes in small ways.
I like George Carlin said it best, "The planet is fine, the people are f***ed"
What's the song at the beginning? Great vid btw
I don't know pal, sorry. When I made this I just added these songs from a medley. These days I include all of the songs in the description but I hadn't done it for this one. There's a 20 minute messy of Fate/Zero music somewhere on TH-cam where I got this form but that's all I know, sorry again!
Alexander the great was kind of the opposite you imagined as he gave his people complete freedom in beliefs and he also offered this to the enemies he conquered. Then, his enemies became his allies. So he was no tyrant.
you are wrong when showing Gil vs Shirou was the climax of UBW. The climax was Archer vs Shirou.
Meh, the footage wasn't even supposed to correlate with what I was saying about climaxes anyway.
well, why it was there then?
next time use static picture instead, if the footage don't match up with the narration.
adhi 99 Because it was still pertinent to the point I was making even if it wasn't the "climax." It still matched up, just not completely. This was the first video that I ever made and I was still working out the kinks of editing.
It also wasn't even an important point anyway. It was a throwaway comment.
Okay, so Assassin's character is pretty boring but the historical figure he is based on is pretty interesting. I am pretty certain that GRRM based the Faceless Men on Hassan-i Sabbah and the al-Ḥashāshīn.
Once again another fate zero review where they miss the crucial moment in sabers story at the battle of camlan the sun's light shines over her as a sign of the hope for a better country that could still come
Err. I didn't miss it. It was just so obvious that there was no need to address it, and it doesn't render anything else I said void. The simple fact that sequels involving Saber exist makes that light a pretty clear sign. There was always going to be another chance for her, another rebirth. Really no need to draw much attention to it. Maybe that's the reason other videos haven't mentioned it either - because it's not much of an abstract or thought-provoking story element.
Perhaps your right but and it's not a knock on your review which is certainly one of the better ones. I just feel that many people claim that saber failed where the other kings succeeded
I love Kiritsugu's character, he had such a tragic story. His converastion with Saber after he killed Lancer and told her that war is despair is also one of my favourite quotes of all time. That being said how do you think the Grail would have granted Kiritsugu's wish? Would it kill all the villians in the world? Or would it kill everyone except himself, Iri and Ilya? Neither makes any sense. Killing all but his family will means 7 billion people will die most of them innocent, and killing only the villians won't stop new ones from surfacing.
I disliked Lancer, I just didn't like him going on about his pride and found him annoying, I also dislike men who go after other men's women in general. I like the scene where he died, it made Kiritsugu look like a boss who gets his priorities straight.
Rodiacreed It would have killed all of humanity. You see, humanity at its' core, is a species of egotism, thus they all aspire to a notion of better. The issue however is that every notion of better both implies and requires a notion of worse to serve as a counterbalance. This notion of worse is the common enemy in the majority of cases. Without this counterbalance, humanity would, at least in theory, create that counterbalance out of their very own to maintain stability. In other words, they would betray each other in an attempt to maintain the cycle.
Humanity is a species that actually needs to create conflict for the sake of its' own survival. Not necessarily war mind you, but something that will make the nebulous concepts of better and worse clearly defined. Of course since all notions of better, in other words, ideologies, become more extreme over time, it inevitably evolves into war. As such, the Grail would end all conflict the only way a human can comprehend, the way I stated in the very beginning of this post.
I was wondering the same thing because in a way Kerry would be forcing his utopia on everyone so it's either kill everyone, kill the bad and spare those good though how this would be determined would be anyone's guess, Kerry becomes a God like figure who would decide who to live and who to kill and or force everyone to become good by taking away their free will. Another thing to worry about is maintaince since a utopia needs to be constantly monitored or it will devolve into chaos once more and whose to say the grail doesn't have time limits on wishes. And a interesting thing to consider is what exactly is Kiritsugu's idea of a utopia?
Fucking Rider
I dont think you gave Kotomine enough credit, he is a far deeper character than how you described.
This video was made months and months ago, and since then I've thought about him more and agree that there is more to him. Still don't think he's one of the deepest, but there is definitely more complexity than I say here. I was also preoccupied with trying to not make the video too long, mind.
I should reword that, sorry. I don't think he's one of the most COMPLEX characters. I have no problem with saying he's one of the deeper characters. Keep in mind that my only experience with Kirei is through F/Z (anime and LN) and the UBW anime (which basically shoves him off to the side). I haven't read the visual novels so any nuance about him tackled in there is foreign to me. And no, I haven't seen that video.
Interesting, if you dont mind, can you tell how you differentiate between the terms deep and complex?
Also please watch that video, I think you'll find it interesting!
***** Well, I think that a character usually can't be too complex without being deep, but a character can be deep without being complex.
For me, depth simply refers to characters that are more than one dimensional. They are explored and fleshed out enough so that you understand them beyond a simple character trait or two. Most of Fate/Zero's characters are deep, but Ryuunosuke is a good example of one who I believe isn't.
Complexity, on the other hand, is about how much perception can play a hand in understanding a character. Characters that are complex are often misunderstood due to simply how many aspects apply to their characterization. These are characters that debates are formed around due to differing perceptions and opinions. The ultimate examples of complex characters in anime for me are Johan Liebert from Monster and Griffith from Berserk. From Fate, I'd say that Kiritsugu and Saber are the most complex.
A character that is deep but not complex for me is a character that is really well-fleshed out but simple. It doesn't take much effort to understand them. For me, Kirei is like this. His background info and motivations are extensive, but there is not much room for interpretation. Rider and Waver are other good examples of deep but not very complex characters. This is all just my opinion of course.
And I watched about half of that video before realizing that essentially all that he was saying was knowledge I was aware of already. A lot of what he was touching on was in the novel.
I see, that's an interesting way of looking at it. So essentially, a complex character is one that can be viewed in multiple ways while a deep character is one that has a lot of time put into explaining that character, do I have that right?
Also you probably didn't realize it since it's on a separate channel but I was the one who made that video so I would appreciate it if you at least finished it. I never read the light novels so I am not sure what information was revealed there that wasn't revealed in the visual novel which I did read.
about the point you Make about Raider I think you are rather incorrect.. Alexander the great was exploring the world hence the term scientific exploration people gave to his campaign through Asia(he actually brought all kinds of scientists to analyze anything they found in their way) and Alexander was by no means tyrannical in my opinion. sorry for any mistake I am not a native speaker
Just my interpretation of the character given what Fate/Zero displayed - there were undoubtedly hints of tyranny in his characterization. I know next to nothing about the actual man.
Aleczandxr I watched the anime a long time ago but I still can't remember anything tyrannical but the problem may be the term tyrant and how each of us understand it even though we might mean to say the same thing
Paschalis Tsintsios "A king… The king must be greedier than any other. He must laugh louder and rage harder. He must exemplify the extreme of all things, good and evil."
Aleczandxr tyranny is when someone holds power without the approval of the people he governs mainly for personal enjoyment...thats the big difference here and it goes to show that anyone tries to do the correct thing but in action it's really difficult to get to it(as shown by the plethora of ideals of other characters of the series)
Aleczandxr I am not trying to prove your thought wrong. my goal is to clarify something from my point of view
did you do an review for unlimited blade works
Nah.
Ok thank an you did a great job on this by the way
Angelo Roker Thank you!
Alexander the Great was a total tyrant. He only stopped his campaigns in India because his troops refused to keep fighting. To punish them for their insubordination, he forced marched them home through the desert. Thousands of his troops died because of this.
Ah, cheers for this. I didn't know for sure but the show gives plenty of evidence in displaying that.
damn this made me tear up :( for lancer then for rider and wave then for kiritsugu :(
i still dont like saber though lol as rider said she is just a naive little girl fuck her!!
oh how could i forget about kariya :(
Kariya.. :'(
Caster and Ryunosuke: Definitely the definition of creeps, unfortunately without redemption, mainly built up by great personalities (and JYB in Ryunosuke's case). I guess Caster was motivated by being called ugly throughout life and therefore developing a yandere obsession for Joan of Arc, and I guess Ryunosuke was motivated by a desire for suicide he didn't know he wanted, but I wish they were embellished more, as well as have them realize they are actually TRYING TO FIND THE GRAIL. They are still great to watch however, especially when Saber unleashes Excalibur on Caster.
Irisvael: I'd refer to her as the show's definition of "the ends justify the means and motives". Iri knows positivity is going to come and is happy for that, but simultaneously endorses Kiritsugu's bloody rampages because - well, he's her husband. It's kind of a shallow and naïve reason, tragically occurring due to limited exposure to the world around her, but also leaving you blindsided by the sense of bubbliness she brings to the series. Ultimately, she probably really wanted Kiritsugu's ideals with Saber's motives, and the fact she never realizes this makes it all the more sad.
Tokiomi: It depends on what route you like best. If you like UBW, Tokiomi was nice, and if you like HF, Tokiomi was an utter dick. In a way, I think his actions were just a product of the Magus Association, living by the rules and selling Sakura to the enemy just to improve Rin (my waifu BTW). He was a nice guy, but brainwashed into being a tool, kind of like Suzaku Kururugi from Code Geass.
Kayneth: I agree entirely here. He's not pleasant, but he still faces unfair judgment. Ultimately, he was kind of just like Tokiomi, the only difference being that he was arrogant and Tokiomi was modest. Even he wanted to do the right things, but Kiritsugu killed him and Sola-Ui for even trying to do it at all. I kind of wish there was more interaction between him and Waver, but what we got was fine.
Gilgamesh: There is absolutely nothing redeemable about him as a person, despite being a good villain. He is the definition of asshole, manipulating Kirei so he can possess everything (even though he thinks everyone belongs to him), lusting over a teenager, and blowing the living shit out of anyone he glanced at. He got what he deserved in UBW, where he was bested at his own game by Shiro; his ultimate flaw was that he was egotistical. I wish they went more in depth into who Gilgamesh was in real life, but oh well.
Assassin: Watch Heaven's Feel and you'll realize that he isn't a joke. He's just... very underplayed, like Lua in Baccano.
Berserker: While I like his purpose in the plot, I think his revelation to Saber came a little too late, and that he didn't have time to develop with Kariya when they are both just selflish assholes that think they are being heroes but really just want to get laid.
Lancer: You actually gave me a lot of insight into the character I didn't think about; I think if his flashbacks were better paced it might have made more sense, but I completely agree with everything.
Kariya: I think you gave him a bit too much praise. He really quit being a mage because he was too weak (hence the crest worms), and as I said with Berserker, it may have appeared that he wanted to be a hero and rescue Sakura, but really he just wanted to be with Aoi - in other words, he pretending to be selfless when he is just being selfish. This is not to say his character isn't good, though it is underrepresented, especially since his role is the catalyst for Heaven's Feel.
Saber: I feel like you kind of misunderstood Saber's fate. While she definitely understood that she was not as good of a king as she thought thanks to Rider and Lancer, this didn't deter her beliefs. In fact, it only reinforced them. She only realizes that she doesn't have to undo her mistakes in the Fate route (where Shiro tells her about the beauty of a normal life) and the UBW route (where she realizes the Grail is nothing but emptiness). The rest is perfectly fine though.
Rider: I've heard a lot people say that Rider is the least flawed of all the characters (probably because he was funny), and you were more in line with my view. To add on, however, I think Rider saying that Saber was a "role model" was actually hypocritical. If Saber acted too selflessly, Rider acted too selfishly. He scared his people silly and expected them to respect him for it. However, his promises were empty. He knew he could never reach the sea, and his people (and then Gilgamesh) killed him for it. He led people to his death to satisfy his own needs, but your positive points are true.
Waver: Pretty much spot on, but I do think that because he was Rider's master, he ultimately fell into the same traps Alexander's people did. I totally agree on the banter though - the best drama has comedy in it.
Kirei: Definitely has one of the best arcs, though his ultimate fate in many routes leaves much to be desired. Some of the best antagonists are ones that are merely pawns of others, in this case Gilgamesh, and the scene where Gilgamesh deduces he is a sadist for talking longer about Kariya is easily the show's most underrated moment. His descent into madness was always intriguing, and even made me briefly saddened when he killed Tokiomi.
Kiritsugu: The show clearly deconstructs everything about his ideology. The Grail basically spits in his face that by abiding by his Vulcanian ideals, he in turn may kill the very people that are actually good and letting the bad ones live, and that by continuing to kill people, he would effectively commit genocide. All this, rooted by a deeply haunting backstory, and the hypocrisy in wanting no one to die yet killing people to fulfill that and his ultimate desire to be with Ilya and Iri. And in the end, I would argue he comes out of the war satisfied, no longer killing and coping with all his losses via Shiro, even as the Grail slowly kills him. Now THIS is a good antihero.
It's been months and months since I wrote the script for this video and I haven't watched it much since but I don't remember saying that I thought that Saber altered or deterred her beliefs. Just that she now realized how flawed they were through the course of the story.
It's important to note that I've not read a single line of the VNs and only watched Ufotable's Fate stuff, so any interpretation I have of any of the characters is solely based off of Fate/Zero. I was never going to say anything different about Assassin, for example.
Aleczandxr I think that, while she realized her kingship was flawed, she didn't think her ideologies were flawed. It only motivated her to get the Grail even more, which is why she is so devastated when Kiritsugu makes her destroy it and kill Iri. I think in order to flesh out her character more, it's important to watch the Deen adaptation. Basically, in that one, she is so utterly focused on getting the Grail (due to her encounter with Lancelot) that she behaves recklessly, which goes against Shiro's desire to keep her safe and, ultimately, to accept her mistakes while still being kind, unlike Rider who refused to let her be kind.
It's the least interesting route, sure, but it really helps with the world-building.
I figured you hadn't played the VN, and neither have I actually. I just wanted to point out that Assassin does improve. Ultimately, Fate/Zero IS a prequel, so the characters' development continues there. But I do agree that for this story, Assassin was just a way to make Kirei a Master, which is sad because he/she could have mirrored Kirei in some way.
Quick question: did you like UBW? I couldn't quite tell in this video. (BTW it's actually Urobuchi's favorite route).
Gemnist I liked UBW, especially on a shallow aesthetic level, but didn't love it. I have a few problems with it and from what I've heard, they stem from Ufotable flubbing on a few things (Shirou's psychology being one of them).
What's the song at 14:46?
"Beginning of the End," off the Fate/Zero soundtrack.
Thank you
What's the song at 9:20?
"To Give A Marionette Life" from Hunter X Hunter (2011)
Aleczandxr Thanks!
I hate Kiritsugu, more specific how big idiot he is, he is such blind idealist that he reminds me about all of the idealists in real world, communists especially, he is able to do the most horrible things in name of greater good, in the end their ideas appears to be so dispatched from reality they are left only with pile of dead bodies.
You cant save everybody, the only thing you can do is to care mostly about people you love, respect or feel connected to in other way on a first place, if you will try to save and care for everyone you are going to cause only more harm.
I completely understand with where you're coming from here, even if I don't agree with it. But nothing that you say here equates to poor storytelling or bad characterization. Just a tragically misguided man.
Yes he is a great character as he represent person like this so good, he is emotional and very altruistic person, he hates doing what he is doing but he believe that this is just needed, he just cant care only about himself or the ones close to him, he cares for everybody equally, and this is moment when he is leaving his human nature in name of ideals.
As long as humans have a free will you cant stop them from hurting each other, as long as they are divided you cant stop them from waginf wars with each other at some point, but Kiritsugu tried to play God, in the same time hoping for miracle without any real plan.
When i said i hate his traits i still loved character, how good character is is represented by how much emotions we feel for him, yet there is moment when i liked his action, when he took a grail he did not go any further, at this point most of idealists would cinvince themselfs that all people that suffered so far for his cause would suffer for nothing so it is better to go further this way than to give up, but he did not, he choose to repent for rest of his life than do something like this.
Your criticism makes no sense.
You call him a blind idealist, when his entire backstory consists of him being a realist. You say he only ended up with piles of dead bodies, while in reality he ended up with both piles of dead bodies, and lots of lives saved. He *wanted* to be idealistic, but he couldn't, because the world wouldn't let him save everybody. But that's why he wanted to win the Grail, to create a miracle that *would* let him save everybody. And that's why your criticism makes no sense, because Kiritsugu agrees with you that you can't save everyone, but he also rightfully acknowledges that "can't" doesn't apply to an omnipotent wish-granter. The only problem with his plan was that he was going off bad information.
@@KaNoMikoProductions Thats the problem, he believed there will be miracle, how miracle would suppose to work? It would have to work in a frame of logic of real world, and he just assumed it will work somehow because he wanted to believe in miracles instead of accepting reality as it is. All the killing he has done in the name of greater good, and it allfor nothing because you cant just FIX the world without doing something drastic like taking away free will from humans for example.
As i mentioned before, so many people tried to fix the world and did terrible things in real life (road to hell is paved in good intentions), i think his character is based on that type of thinking partially.
@@maciejrozanski154
>how miracle would suppose to work?
How should he know?
>It would have to work in a frame of logic of real world
No, it wouldn't. Something omnipotent does not know constraints. Again, he simply had bad information. He didn't know the Grail was corrupted, nor did he know that he would have to provide a method for it to act. He had been told it was an omnipotent wish granter, and so he placed his hopes on it, as it was the only thing he could do.
>it allfor nothing
Except it wasn't all for nothing, because he still saved people. It was still a net positive. The problem was that he didn't want *any* people to die, so he sought a miracle.
>because you cant just FIX the world without doing something drastic like taking away free will from humans for example.
You don't know that. Kiritsugu didn't know, either, but that's also why he asked "how will the Grail grant my wish?" Once he knew how, he rejected it.
>i think his character is based on that type of thinking partially.
Except it just doesn't work in a world where something omnipotent very much could exist.