Playing TRICKY to Make More Money in Poker?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- Josh calls in and flops top set in a 4 bet pot. He bloats the pot up post flop and Bart and he discusses if he should take a trick line after raising.
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Retitle: How to make the minimum with top set. Literally any other line will surely be more +EV than this.
incredibly tricky raising top set on the flop
They'll never see it coming.
a low frequency play for sure.
Sometimes I think people don't give their opponents enough credit for being able to hand read. How often would you really c/r a 4-bettor on a K-Q-x flop as a bluff? Even if you had a bluffing candidate, a flush draw maybe, most people aren't going to check raise that when their opponents range contains a ton of AK+. They're going to try to hit and then stack a monster that can't get away. You may think the turn sizing looks bluffy, but in order for it to be a bluff, you first had to call a 4 bet and then check raise a flop in a situation where you know your opponent has a bunch of strong hands. So this really isn't as deceptive as it seems in the moment. When your opponent calls a 4-bet, check raises flop, and bombs turn, it really doesn't look as bluffy as the opponent may think. It looks like a set of kings.
Agreed. The only bluff I can see is aces, and I can't get to the turn like this with aces.
I like the check raise, but I like 300 on the turn to set up a better river jam or maybe even induce a bluff.
No expert here though. I just know I'm wanting max value with top set.
Also, aren't AJc and JTc are the only conceivable draws opponent has?
Well said! Totally agree!
Hero has position
AcKc is the only real draw for either player. And having top top is very strong on this board. Especially with the nut flush draw. It's effectively a free roll vs other AK.
The only other bluff hand is Ac5c. Good luck finding a live player that has the balls to call a 4-bet with Ac5c, then check raise the flop and blast the turn 400BB effective.
They don't exist.
So no, there aren't any reasonable bluffs in either players range.
@@andrewadami3920 even if hero would bluff with A5cc that’s only 1 bluff combo vs 3 combos each of KK and QQ.
I hope this caller never ever says the word "Sexy" again because with his voice, i died a little inside.
Please consider adding timestamp when speaking of a certain spot in the video. I had to rewatch it lol.
07:19
@@jllerena488 haha i didnt think anyone would forget this. Thx for timestamp
>”games at chasers are wicked soft”
>flops top set in a 4bp and wins the absolute minimum
lol
If he just calls on the flop he almost certainly stacks the guy. 😂
"flops top set in a 4bp and wins the absolute minimum" You say that as if you are supposed to win a ton of money with a top set, while basically having a complete lock on the board, drastically reducing the chance that he has top pair or better. Hands that will pay him off are AA, QQ, KQ and AK, and assuming that the games are as soft as he says, if villain had those hands, money would be going in no matter what he did.
@@ozrenbalic6051 you'll be surprised with people's range
@@ozrenbalic6051 but those hands you mention are a large fraction of a 4-bettors range.
This line makes very little sense if we look at what villain should have in this spot.
If villain is betting his entire range on the flop at this size (reasonable) he will fold all of his Ax that doesn't have a flush draw once we raise. That means that his continue range is now down to AA, AK and nut flush draws.
Those hands would all call a much bigger raise. In fact the size of this raise is such that Ax of clubs is making a significant profit against top set by calling. This can't be right. We need to charge these draws more to continue. The villain's other Ax bluffs that don't have a flush draw will fold anyway even to this small size, and villain is not going to fold AK.
Then when we jam turn we are making it so that none of these nut flush draw hands can call. Why would we do this? This is crazy - we gave away value to the nut flush draw by raising too small OTF and now we are letting these hands off the hook by betting too big OTT.
As played we should bet ~450 on the turn. This puts villain in a tough spot with those flush draws - he should probably jam some as a bluff, fold some and call only with AcKc (which we block.) If he does call with any of these draw hands, he is getting a bad price and we profit.
Against this turn sizing, Ax of clubs has the easiest fold in the world. In fact villain's range is so condensed now (from his perspective he has 3 or 4 nut club draws, 12 copies of AK including AcKc, 6 copies of AA and 3 copies of KK) that villain could actually fold quite a bit of AK, or even fold all AcAx. Given that we block AcKc (one of the few hands that would always call), if villain would fold any hand with the Ac in it, we are actually not getting called very often here as he block a massive piece of his continue range.
Agree with Bart I would probably not have a raise range on this flop since we can easily get the money in. Obvs if a club comes, it's lame since it will make it harder to get stacks in against hands without a club in them. But we don't really need to be that concerned about flush draws; villain can't actually have but a couple.
Bart, I caught at the end where you said you're coming into town in a couple weeks. Not sure if you'll have time for some poker. I know you usually hit up Chasers when you do, but you and your buddy (the caller) should come to Nashua and check out Boston Billiard. The 5/10 usually runs on Friday & Saturday as well as some great PLO games. I think you'd really like it there.
i was so excited to see a new video but then I realized I watched this call live already haha
This is just the classic "I have top set and I want all of your money" play. If the opponent is a thinking player, why would he ever call down on the turn with anything aside from QQ, KQ and KK? It's funny how the caller talks as though he's trying to exploit the UTG's inability to fold AA when it's highly likely that UTG exploited the caller by doing exactly that - folding AA. I also think in a 4b pot when the flop comes KQx against this line, you can definitely fold AA on the turn because ranges are so dense you don't need to defend very wide at all to avoid being exploited. The raise IP is fishy AF as well because there's just no need to do that in a 4b pot due to the lower stack-to-pot ratio and it's extremely hard to balance on this flop. Peeling the raise on the flop with AA seems okay, although alarm bells would already be going off in the mind of any decent player vs that action because so few players will find the right amount of bluffs in that spot in a 4b pot.
Why not 5b KK?
In my mind from the villans perspective. He looks like qq or kk. Just wants the money now and doesn't want the opponent to draw qith 10j suited or ax of clubs. (Which should be in his range considering the experience level mentioned) I haven't watched it all yet. But I think that turn shove was pretty risky.
Polarized turn bet jam. You are repping only QQ+ or air. He folded which means he believed the former.
Edit: I suppose KQs is still *possible* that you rep but you would have to be able to call 4-bet with it in opponents head.
Oddly enough there is more combos of sets than KQ lol because he's only calling with KQs and that's 2 combos. He has 3 combos of QQ and KK (given opponent isn't blocking any)
raising flop is definitely a huge mistake especially when hero blocks a huge chunk of V’s continuing range by holding the Kc
Huge mistake? That’s a bit of an exaggeration. When you have a strong/nutted hand and your opponent has shown strength, raising is almost never a huge mistake.
I agree with barts view with the check back on the turn
Mustang electric!! Love chasers!!! Josh I was there this day
I think in a situation like that you should check back the turn, make it look like ya raised just to see two free cards.... or just as you said, small bet, half pot jam... going for value the way the caller did is just WAY over board unless the villain had The Ladies, I would fold AA if I was the Villain...
i think you shove the turn - make it look like it could be a bluff.
I agree with the caller moving all in.. because sometimes slow playing will f$ck you up! And then you will blame yourself for being greedy snd want to get more money of your opponent..
Where do you play live? Lock a seat up for me
Yeah either turn x back or maybe bet 250 or something small ish
Bart these guys on yt are killin ur homeslice 😂
One of the ways I play tricky is I wear a magic black robe at the table I drink green tea and smooth call with AA or KK.
A play I like mixing in here is betting obnoxiously small on the turn when checked to in position. So here, betting ~$100. I open the action back up to him, and if he simply calls, it caps him. He's less likely to bluff lead river since I did bet turn, and my bluffs (QJ, KJ maybe) can go all in profitably.
Dude just jams the turn lol
I think all but the fishiest of fish fold AA or AK on the turn which is why you don't go all in there. You're clearly repping two pair or better (which is a huge % of your range when calling a 4bet in this scenario) when you shove and there are punishingly few bluffs that you can have. You're almost looking to get called exclusively by Qs or KQ, the latter of which you heavily block.
Nonsense on the folding of AA.
Uggh Hero's All-In on the turn is so terrible. Easy check to make opponent think you were trying to get to the river for free. Villian almost leads on all rivers, then jam. Ez money.
Lost a lot of money here vs a large portion of villains 4b range. Flat flop and evaluate turn vs bet size/check. Not much to protect from on this board holding Kc
that and you crush a lot of Vs calling range when you have top set. V should bet call with some of their FDs but hero actually blocks the FD. Personally, ive never been a fan of being "tricky" in poker. Most people just trick themselves and bleed buckets money
I love the gym. Really seemed like a draw. Thought that was an excellent play.
Congrats. You love the gym.
Yes!! Balancing in live poker v randoms is overrated! No HUD numbers to skew (HUDS should be banned!) ;-)
AK clubs makes sense for the villain to have.
I'm going for max value with top set on a board like this. Dude missed out on so much $
Is hero EVER folding on the river? Literally any card I think you have to call off, even an ace or queen I'm still getting it in so what's the point of jamming on turn? You are repping kk or qq with this and thats it, check raise flop and overbet jam turn is so rarely bluffed that villian can't call anything there
I love the "I wanna make it seem like I have a draw" excuse. You do not have a draw, you've absolutely smashed this board and you're hard blocking every value holding besides Aces. That sizing might make even JT of clubs fold and you'd never, ever, ever take this line if you had JT of clubs yourself.
nh sir... Honestly in villain's shoes I'd probably call all my value range on the turn shove... Like AK, AQ, AA, QQ (obviously), maybe even TT (not jacks since I'd block too many bluffs). Anyway interesting hand!
How does tens not block bluffs?
I don't think polarizing yourself on the turn is the best way to get value.
Bart do you ever get calls from players from Turning Stone?
Call flop, bet 350 turn and jam river
It's African American Kings.
I'm tahgetting aces
This is 2/5. Opponent was on his case money and folded QQ.
He should have let the keep betting.
Not too much Bawt ...Top left of the chatt
King and Queen of clubs are already taken so the v cannot have ace king or Ace queen of clubs. Highly doubt that he has Ace Jack of clubs when he bet so much preflop. Pretty sure the only card that you could lose to is an ace on the river...
Open size was too small . Sb 2, bb 5, utg15, mp15. = $90 3bet size. Just sayin...
Terrible move by hero on the turn. “A chance that he was bluffing” but “Most people don’t 4-bet without having the top left of the chart” . He blocks the main AK draw. And how many people overbet jam the turn without being nutted? The kid could have AA with the club as a block so he knows you’re not jamming with a draw. Seems like hero got over excited with the nuts and jammed it in.
Bad bet. If you think you have the best hand bet 400. ,if he jams and you call and lose you were going to lose any way. But at least you can see where you're at. And you still have another card
All this looks like is desperation to get more money in from the beginning. What is the point of the small raise on the flop? I just looks like "I want to get as much money in as I can without scaring you off completely but I'm not sure how to play poker so I'll just pretend to casually sneak in a little more here." Turn: "Oh F-it I still don't know how to play poker and I have no patience so enough with the coy routine. I'M-ALL-IN-I-CAN'T-HOLD-IT-ANYMORE!
I would describe this style of play as II, impatient, inept.
But this new trend of making tiny flop bets is one of the dumber dumb fads to come along in years. But why? Solver said so. Is there any logic? Solver said so. But does the guy who programmed the solver know why? Doesn't need to know why. Solver said so. Does the guy who programmed the solver know how to play poker? Doesn't need to know, solver tells him how.
its gonna be a tesla
Idk, the hands you’re targeting, AA and AK, are all blocking your best bluffs big time. I don’t get it. I guess that’s giving villain credit for knowing that
sick accent on this guy
Daddy Lalagon
Way to lose out on a lot $ - top sets dont come often and much less in a 4b pot.
First! Much love daddy!
It be dumb to buy any ev that isn’t tesla
If I was Villain I would fold every single hand maybe even a set of QQ on the flop. In a 4bet pot what is a competent nit raising other than a set of KK or QQ. Nothing
turn even worse then flop
Electric cars are great because they have tons of raw power and charge off the green energy grid which saves the planet.
U thought the turn bet was a 'sexy' play!! Haha. I hate to see what sexy is in your mind. Good try tho.
no check back NEVER with club draw out there......V has AA AK or Fl /straight draw or trip and is not going any place...like all in or 1/2 pot ...
Lost lots of value. he is smart to send in the hand & learn from his mistake.
Gotta disagree with your assessments here.
Villain isn't peeling flop with AJ or AT here, this is a 4bet pot! Unless it's specifically the club draw, but again, this is low stakes. They're not 4betting those hands often.
If I had AA and I was villain I'd probably fold against the flop raise recognizing that hero can have QQ or KK as a flat, but so can I. When I recognize that and knowing that this is a very tight configuration (4bet after UTG open) we gotta be left with the question, does anyone in this hand have JT? AJ? AT? I think the answer is no 90% of the time.
I agree
Lost a lot of money here vs a large portion of villains 4b range. Flat flop and evaluate turn vs bet size/check. Not much to protect from on this board holding Kc
Yeah, if Villain folded aces or AK this is just tragic. Our c/r looks so strong there that he might be folding Acss to a jam.
Only Clubs I see in Villains Range is (JTcc) and maybe A4, A5cc when he has a polarized 4-Bet Range - depending on my image.
Therefore I would Slow-Play already on Flop.
@@arminlangenscheidt6139 i would argue that in these positions, you will never see JTs 4bet, like ever