Flopping STONE COLD NUTS then Crazy Action
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มี.ค. 2022
- Host of the Third Man Walking Podcast, Charlie Wilmoth flops the stone cold nuts then gets crazy action in front of him. Bart and he discuss how he should play the hand.
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Appreciate your info Bart. The effort you put forth to make your channel is apparent to anyone that's paying attention.
Thanks for another great hand break down Bart! I want to thank you for doing what you do as so much value has been added to my game, especially river plays. I'm even seeing mistakes being made on poker vlogs and thinking about what I would do different. Will be playing live 1st time in a few years next week and can't wait to take many of the lessons learned from you to my game. Thanks again, and I pray the family is doing well!
This is awesome content. Thank you!
4:27 Bart, I play at The Gardens and the 5/5 game. The buy in for that game is 300-600. The rake is $2 pre regardless and then 5 + 1 on the flop, +1, +1 river for a total of $8 rake. It sucks.
What does that mean "$2 pre regardless"? In europe in some casinos you pay 5% rake capped to 20$ on 5/5.
@@topspit So if someone raises and everyone folds they take $2 and even if everyone folds and wants to "chop", they still take $2. I mention this because some places don't take anything pre-flop.
Anyone have link or even date to video where garret faced the min raise on river with flush vs boat ?
Charlie plays super tight and is a decent player from my experience at commerce….super nice dude
Super super tight
This was one of my favorites
Good guest I'm checking out the third man walking podcast now
I get we want to keep both villains in so we just call flop BUT once the utg player calls can't we lead turn for value? One of them has a king the other maybe a draw..they'll both pay on turn and the king is gonna pay river too if draws miss..isn't that getting more money as opposed to hoping the lag bluffs or semi bluffs into 2 people?
Great video as always, thanks.
I agree, I'd bet like 325 on Turn
I agree. I think it's hard to see the UTG or button betting the turn with anything worse than QQ. I think trips or a combo draw are both hands that are just checking the turn. When the button raises and it goes call-call, I think the turn is checking through almost all of the time. So I think you're right that betting a small amount on the turn that can get called by trips or a combo draw makes sense.
I was thinking the same thing. They both called $200 on the flop, so bet again on the turn. Not anything huge, like 200-300? Why check when we can build the pot and somebody obviously has trips or a smaller full house?
I think it’s very difficult to get value at both turn and river anyway from anything worse than QQ, and villain with QQ would bet turn himself. The problem is most players do not have enough bluffs in this situation leading turn in a 3way pot. Given flop action villain with trips K likely won’t call both turn and river. You are really looking to target one hand AK specifically which has higher chance to call. If the utg player is not a very bad player, he would probably fold any trips worse than AK at river since hero’s position has nearly no bluffs there. Large bet or check raise river look like a better option, the difference in value extracted is small though compared to leading turn.
@@bcheng22 A bet on the turn can get called by the combo draws (and possibly the nut flush draws, too). You can charge those draws on the turn, but on the river those hands are very likely check-folding unless they hit their straight or their flush.
For many reasons, I’m a big fan of Charlie and can recommend everyone check out his podcast
Can someone please explain to me what "The Euro Situation" is? I need details. Why are Euro Pros inherently tougher than American pros?
Would you go to other countries play poker for living if you r not good ?
@@fengliu3689 Sure, if I thought I was and wasn't. People think they are way better at poker then they are every day.
Europeans have access to legal online poker so it seems that on average Europeans would be stronger players than Americans because of the ease of playing a ton of volume
@@gs6810 Without getting into why we might believe that the grinder pool in Europe might be inherently stronger _overall,_ let's say that the pool of European pros in US poker rooms _who've lasted any length of time_ are significantly tougher than the population of homegrown pros. This is likely for two reasons:
- They've had to build their bankrolls in Europe (smaller economies, higher rake, possibly also tougher player pools) before even _getting_ to the States.
- If they've come over to the States after building their bankrolls, and haven't subsequently gone busto while playing against/adapting to unfamiliar player pools... then they're probably pretty good.
And, even though I said I wasn't going to get into it: Euro pros all can (and do) cut their teeth online against the rest of the World... in online poker rooms that most US pros cant regularly access. Don't kid yourself, they're better on aggregate just due to natural selection.
Wait till 4 of them at same table with you . Plus I really think they are play with the same bankroll to avoid the swings.
18:35 I agree with Bart. This seems like AK all day long
Uploading this one for 316 day should get an award. 😂😂 #Genius
I agree with Bart's upfront betting strategy here, Bart and Marc have discussed basically the same thing where Mark would check-raise the river with bluffs but come out and bet pot or over-bet with value, even in this example Charlie only gets to check-raise to $675 and gets hardly tank-called by KT where Charlie could have bet $675+ from upfront and I think never get folds from KT, KJ and AK
Only counterpoint to this is that if you upfront bet say $800 into $735, QQ and K9s probably only call, where as those hands would bet large if checked to and I don't think ever fold to a check jam, so you get the whole stack from 1 combo of QQ and 1 combo of K9s if there is a possible combo which this hand there isn't, however, there are 2 combos of KJs and KTs and 4 combos of AK which like Bart said, would have to bet when checked to and call a raise that's bigger than what you could have just bet upfront anyways. I think the earlier position the raise is, the better a check is because the guy should only have 6 combos of 4 AK,1 KJs, 1 KTs and, if possible, 2 combos of 1 QQ, 1 K9s, which you could get the whole stack from. A later position open would have all KJo and KTo for 12 combos of hands that could potentially check through or fold to a big check-raise and still only the 2 combos that you could get the whole stack from, so maybe that's a good way to look at it
Hey Bart is it normal for Casino tournaments to charge a BB ante starting on the 1st Level? The casino in NY does this for ALL tournies and its annoying!!
Becoming very common in either first or second level of NL tournaments. I think it's way better, but I'm sure not everybody likes it.
This is a pot size bet for me on the river
BART HANSEN. It took 7 minutes to get to the point we even put down what the blind levels are! Lol. Fan of what you do though overall, keep it going
I too think a small raise on the turn is the right move. Keep building the pot and a possibility of getting it all in on the river. I figure all the players have been staying in the long will not fold to small bet with 1 card to come.
It's close with the bet and raise amounts being fairly small compared to stack sizes, but I think 3-betting the turn really risks taking it down right there, when really the only card to fear even the slightest amount on the river is an ace.
I definitely think he should have lead turn. If utg got Ace King he's not betting into two people now and the button flush draw he's not betting into two people now.
Yeah; was exactly my thought. - It should be very clear that the flop action kills any betting from UTG and BU.
Leaving leading on the turn as only option to get more money into the pot.
I think it was a mistake to not put a small raise in after the turn. It may have provoked a reraise and you could then have got it all in. The small river bet made it so you had little chance of getting full value.
Do we ever think about making a move on the flop? The cold call of the three bet with UTG left to act is so massively strong, do we ever try to polarize and just blast off there? I’m not sure if ever do that, but the double call definitely shut down the button’s bluff hard.
Main reason for raising flop is to just get max value vs coolers (AK,QQ) which we should have no problem getting value against later in the hand. Any continue here is going to look strong but we don’t want to blow any combo draws out of the hand. Can only call flop here
@@skymanross what about something like a min click up so those combo draws are also priced to call?
Point of pedantry here, but on the flop it’s not a cold call of a 3 bet by hero, it’s a cold call of a raise.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj you’re right, crap
Am I the only one who thinks the raise on the river is a great sizing? I’ve read a few comments saying it’s too small.
Charlie saying the villain tanked for a while before calling tells it’s own story - it was a borderline call/potential fold.
I think Charlie got the maximum/close to the maximum here. Remember, K 10 loses to a lot of hands. Well played.
Personally I like a full blown jam, I think players will perceive it as way more bluff heavy and as Bart pointed out it doesn’t seem like he’s the kind of player to fold trips here
I bet $525 on river. Too many people check back and I hate that when I have a boat.
what about a small bet on the river to look like a blocker bet??
Is this a reupload? I'm almost 100% that you just uploaded this few days ago
No
Overbet the river from up front. I would size to ~$1000 over a shove, which is just too large - Trip kings is scared to value bet this against two, esp with JT making it on the river. JT might value bet but I wouldn't expect UTG to have JT very often here (although we can), so it's two players range including trips vs one players range including straights if we check. Against any pot sized or less bet many trip kings can call pretty comfortably, so for any of our bluffs to be successful they have to be overbets which means that our best value should be overbets as well. $1000 actually makes this into a decision for KJ, KT, K9 and such.
Does KT fold to a jam? With JT getting there, I think the EV may be higher by jamming. A lot of players in the player pool would level themselves into a call there imo.
Yes k10 would predominantly fold to a jam.
I'm not asking whether it's optimal for KT to fold to a jam. I'm asking do people believe that the players in their player pool would fold KT to a jam in that spot. I'm hesitant to assume that the majority of the player pool in the caller's game would. I'm also hesitant to believe that that specific villain would have folded. If you're opening KTo from UTG, you clearly aren't playing optimally to even find yourself in that spot.
Most would not fold trips the way this played out.
The caller said he didn’t know the guy well. I think jamming is only in the picture here if you know the villain doesn’t like to fold.
@@brandondorsey7204 I'm not saying anything about what's optimal, I'm saying k10 would predominantly fold to a jam. 1460 into 940 is a massive bet, especially given the flop action. K10 is just a straight up bluff catcher, there's just too much value out there, even J10 beats you. Also given how UTG has been leading the action it's perfectly natural for the SB to play a house this way. Sure some of the time UTG could convince himself that his small bet induced a bluff and call, i just think most of the time an unknown player will fold to this large of a bet given how the hand played out.
pre is a 100% raise. This forces assuming they're not idiots the UTG player to fold their weakest UTG PFR pairs. More importantly it forces them to fold most all their Ace high hands. In short they fold out a lot of hands that are +ev against KQ. OOP players should generally check on paired flops wether they have air or in callers case the effective nuts
i thought maybe its a crazy out lier with JT spades
I think they both actually played it right?
Back to Bart's point: On the riv, if hero just bets, he probably gets called and makes more.
The river bet sizing to lead is a bit tricky. Leading more than his check raise amount of 675 puts the guy into possibly fold territory, and also totally prevents any possible jam due to not having enough behind for the guy to think there's much fold equity.
I wouild have led between $460 (if I could make it obvious that leaves me exactly $1000, without making it look like I was trying to make it obvious) and $600. Those amounts might make all sizes of kings think that I'm taking a bet/fold line with something resembling a large block bet with Kx. So, with AK he might minraise for value and with bad Kx he might shove to get some fold equity in case I also have Kx. Even if leading bigger doesn't make him fold, it reduces the chance of him expecting a raise to fold a better Kx than he has.
If you really think he had AK, and that he'll call a shove, then shove or lead big. But with the absolute nuts, I'll almost always lead for value, in an amount where he doesn't know if I'm blocking on the large side, value betting on the small side, inducing a raise, or probing to bet/fold and save getting stacked.
Rather than balance by doing different actions in this spot, I balance by doing this action with other hand strengths, if someone has seen me do this.
What about leading small on the turn? 200 probably gets called by a king and the combo draw.
Hmm… I’d probably rather bet 400. Good chance both still call, but if only one does that’s still the same as both calling 200.
I didn't really consider this in game because I didn't want to stop button from bluffing, and because I'm not sure I'd ever want to do this with anything but the nuts, but I think it's a pretty cool idea. Marc Goone suggested this when I talked through the hand with him.
@charliewilmoth In game, I check without a lot of thought. However, with time to think about it, AK might be the weakest hand that feels comfortable betting turn given the action, but lots more hands can call. Air bluffs are going to fold, but its hard for them to continue anyway.
I'm overbet 3 betting river at those stakes. Most players won't bet fold trip kings.. some will but Most won't I feel
Bart 😘😘
What's wrong with the Euros?
I hate the turn-check. Best case scenario, one villain has a K and another villain has a flush draw. But let's say it's just one of those things and the other villain has trash. The flush draw is the most likely since there is only one K left in the deck - J high flush draw or higher is calling a half-pot turn bet. Any naked K is as well. Let's say hero goes half-pot on turn and gets called by a naked king and a flush draw. Pot is $1500 going to the river. Hero leads for $900 on the river. Missed flush folds but is a K really going to fold to a half pot river bet in that spot getting almost 3 to 1?
K10 off seems pretty wide considering the configuration in UTG…with that many people behind left to act. JMO, typically -EV... What does a solver say in that same scenario? I don’t have one. Just doesn’t make any sense monetarily, in a poker sense. I can get behind a flat if my opponent/opponents have shown a propensity to get or be out of line in previous hands/showdown’s #TableDynamics… that being said, it’s obviously player dependent and well as table dynamics that would influence that decision… JMO. #CLP #CrushLivePoker
BART PLEASE HELP ME
He's full of it. Shows pocket qs at showdown
I live in Canada..winnipeg and never see euros. Can someone tell me why I keep seeing players talking about European play????
As somebody who lives in a state bordering you… who the heck is traveling or moving across the world to try to make money at casinos, and is choosing somewhere cold and small? They’re gonna go to Texas, La, etc.
@@adamseidel9780
Are u a little slow? I asked about euro players and their play
@@supremeleaderarmy9164 i interpreted your question to mean “I don’t ever see Euros around here, why does everybody keep talking about Euros,” so I tried to answer why we don’t see Euros where we’re from but they do elsewhere. Maybe that question isn’t what you meant.
They come in teams to casinos and wreck you. It’s just a job for them . Plus they generally don’t talk much or add anything interesting to the game. It’s like having a robot that plays almost perfect at the table.
@@adamseidel9780
I get it. The guy above answered my question. Thanks
He should have lead the turn, both will call with either a draw or a k, and polarise bet the river at least hell get one caller
Charlie is good but I don't like how this hand is played on really any street. Preflop I can live with, but I think raise is better. Flop, after our loose button raises, we call, and we get an overcall, it just doesn't make sense to slow down to me on turn. What are we hoping happens here? Some Ak in the bb bets after being raised and called? Button on a draw chooses to suicide bet when he can take a free card? When you have the goods, default needs to be bet. So, I'd bet turn. Then, after checking through on the turn, I think we have to lead river. There are people who are going to be so scared that they will not bet random kings or even JT here in some cases and when that happens, we are lighting money on fire. It happened to work out here, but that doesn't mean it was a good play.
Why not go all in at the end, you previously called and checked, it will look like you’re a bad player trying to bluff them out
Lead the river for a grand. AK is very unlikely to fold, JT of spades probably won’t either
how is the flop the stone cold nuts when there's a royal draw...
Flop is nuts because it’s the best possible hand on the flop. Doesn’t mean it’ll stay the nuts throughout turn and river.
Stopped at 16:00. I bet $500, hoping they put me on the missed flush draw, have AK or QQ. Risking Check through is not worth the ability to check raise, and only QQ is calling. your check raise, and that hand may raise you anyway and you can re-raise.
Why does no one want to play “Euro pros?”
Probably because they win.
They are good
:)
Easy pot sized river bet.
The guy will call just as much if you stick it all in... so much lost equity smh
Not through with the video but obvious call on the flop
To the river now. Bet a thousand… looks like you missed and the straight and king both calll
Yep… woulda made you another $325… also I would love to have your issues when playing poker lol “how could I have won more”
Stopped listening to this guy after his holier than thou Covid mask private game talk on his podcast