Terrible River; How's Your Mental Game?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มี.ค. 2022
- Caller turns the nuts in this hand but then gets what he perceives to be a terrible river. Bart and he discuss the spot and what would be the best play.
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I always enjoy hearing Bart try to predict how a non thinking player thinks...
The dreaded board pair.. the worst feeling when you have a straight or a flush. Pretty nice when you’re on the right end of it though!
Yeah it’s always so gross when it happens.
It’s why I pretty much always fast play nut straights. You stack worse straights, and also unblock all two pair and set combos which generally will never fold.
The caller has an excellent read on the player type. I've seen it so many times. On the turn, the villain thinks he probably has the hero beat. I mean, the hero raised to $45 pre-flop. How many 6's does he have? The other player might have a 6 but the main pot is where the money is. He might get lucky and win the main if the board pairs, but he doesn't want to give the hero a free card to draw to a flush or a straight if he has 10,10 for example. Another thing that comes into play is that people don't like being put in tough spots. If the villain just calls the turn and his hand doesn't improve on a brick river, what does he do when the hero shoves? It's a zero-bluff spot, due to the dry side pot, but people don't always think about that. In order to avoid those bad spots a lot of players will just say "F' it!", shrug and shove the turn when at least they know they're not drawing dead. That's what the villain was trying to do on the turn.
But the hero still called the river shove. I'm not saying I blame him. But he did have a good read. And what does the villain have? He wants to back-raise the turn? If he was that eager to get his money in with a 6 for the straight, then why not at least raise the $240 from the hero? I could see it if the villain was out of position but he's on the button. I don't know. The river shove from the villain just never looks like a straight to me and it "should" never be a bluff. It's a boat that was just severely misplayed on earlier streets.
yeah good point, i came here to post this. theres a bunch of 'fuck it' shoves in low limit live poker that just dont exist in tougher games. mostly bc the players are scared of playing tricky river spots.
Bro it’s live poker. Most people are idiots and would play a 6 this exact same way. Don’t act like you would play this any different
I think that hero should have shoved himself on the river, if he was planning on check-calling a shove anyway. Villain shouldn’t bluff here with a flushdraw (but you never know, stranger things happens) and might check many of the hands we beat.
For everyone saying the villain “clearly” had a set on the turn, I have to agree with Bart here. I don’t see many good or bad players shoving a set on turn with a one card to a straight on board. This hand demonstrates it can happen but more times that not it simply isn’t a set.
The reason that the villain shoved with a set is because the hero didn't shove himself (villain didn't realize that it's not allowed). That made the villain think that the hero doesn't have a straight.
@@ilya4759Let me guess, your a 10NL player right? The reason villain wanted to jam turn is because he obv is a huge whale.
I wouldn't have put him on a set on that turn either. That's such a weird and unusual way to play them. Just why?
@@andresdelhassi7257 you sound like a losing 100NL player who dislikes 10NL winning players.
@@ilya4759 THIS!
Bart, I saw you at Boston Billiards in Nashua NH on Saturday. Was an absolute HONOR. Appreciate everything you do for the game. I was only there for a few after I saw you so I wasnt able to introduce myself unfortunately. Hope you ran well and they treated you even better! Love that place.
Was the the team from 98.5 the spots hub there? Was Joe Murray's birthday
@@MikeJones-zu7cq honestly not sure. I was sitting the table across from Bart so that's how I knew. There was a group of people who was always with him. I wasnt looking at their face to know. Bart was playing 2/5 1K cap.
@@williamzagarella8066 cool..on my way to chasers.
If Southy Matty is there he gots se wicked killer oxys
@@RobinASmith138 oxys arent around anymore. You too young bruh we used to call oc80s oxys. Oxys now I presume you mean percs which I dont see how they could be fire lmao 15mg of oxycodone is 15mg. Unless you talking fetty and he hand presses his oxys lol. Either way that life is well behind me. 5 years clean.
Finally a hand that isn't AA, KK, AK or AQ. We need more clips with hands that donkeys like me play. I know I should be folding 97s UTG but when I'm playing at a table with passive fish who aren't 3betting and only getting calls with no squeezing I don't think it's very much -ev but my play on later streets are where I'm probably losing the most ev so it would be nice to see more hands like that.
Agreed.
It is very much so -EV to play these hands from early position, against any opponent. Big chance that people call behind with other junk that will beat your top pairs, trips, and even flushes when you hit them. You will loose a lot of money in the long run. Poker is still a game of probabilities.
Why am I finding your thumbnail titles misleading? Bad river- mental game? You discussed how the hand played and what you expected to see and were surprised to see. Mental game is referring to tilt, keeping your cool, don't allow one hand to hurt the rest of your session. He lost the hand! Guy flopped a set with a straight or there. He was afraid to raise because he could easily be behind. I'd love to hear why/ how this has to deal with the mental game versus any of your other call ins. Hmmm
He's working on his bluff game
Shoulda bet 140 on the turn. Allows Hero to RE-JAM, which is what we want to do. Button would call off regardless with any 2p.
Great vlog of your old stomping grounds!
Ouch. Foiled by the donk line. The seven felt way less scary than a heart, yet here we are.
Really good hand review but with him limping on the button no way I would expect him to have pocket 8's in that spot
The concept bart illustrated @13:10 I would love to see a video on. 4 card strength boards, meaning straights or flushes are certainly bluff candidates into a dry side pot, particularly whereas you may see the all in individual having an over-pair. Certainly not discussed about, just blank labeled mostly as zero bluffing into a dry side pot et cetera
The villain's play screams of your standard low stakes play on the turn. The *sigh* shove attempt wasn't him thinking he had the best hand or trying to look weak. It was 'I know I'm behind but I can't fold this, and I'm going to put the money in regardless of the river so I might as well shove and get a big pot if I hit'. But that doesn't mean it had to be a set, it could have been a 6 or nut combo like AThh. This stuff happens all the time in low stakes, and trying to analyse their thought process is pointless because they aren't following GTO at all. It's why talking GTO in low stakes is really silly, it's a purely exploitable playing game and more people would be winning players at low stakes if they would just accept this.
It really is amazing listening to this man's brilliant poker mind.
Is it? I mean Bart is sharp for sure. But this is basic logic and poker skills any decent player should grasp. I know logic is not common these days. But Bart is such a genius he’s been wearing a filthy face diaper for the last 24 months. Sounds kind of dumb to me
@@greatwhite3676 I agree with the face diaper comment, some of the smartest people I know are hardcore believers in this crime against humanity. Digital ID and Digital health passports/digital currency are the objective of the "deadly virus".
The Hegelian dialect.
@@chrisrpsen5049 yeah it’s insane. Glad to hear you are on the right side though. Always good to know there’s another truth teller out there
Filthy face diaper? Was Bart known to reuse those disposable masks or something? You are claiming something pretty gross here..
Here was my tournament schedule yesterday ( I lost all of them)
Boat over boat
Quads over boat
Straight flush draw vs flopped staight in the main event
Bubbled the final tournament that I was almost the chip leader in.
So I'd say my mental game is pretty garbage right now
you crack me up dude
If we think the villain wasn’t acting when he begrudgingly tried to jam the turn, then a set is the exact hand I’d put him on. Why would he be upset if he had a 6? And if he were, why wouldn’t he just check back the river?
Small stakes fish can rarely let go of a big hand after being convinced on the flop that the pot will be theirs. He knew he was screwed facing an all-in and a call with a one-liner on the board, but he still just couldn’t let it go so he jammed as he shouted, “Woe is me!” to the poker heavens.
Then he rivered his boat, which led to an insta-shove because he couldn’t contain his excitement.
Spot on. Just look at their chest - their heart is beating out of it they’re so amped!!
I think BTN is angling much more often than seems to be acknowledged around here. It’s an easy play to make with set/2pair to try and buy a show down. And it’s a pretty easy angle to do.
I don’t understand how the thumbnail relates to the content of this video at all
Yeah I make this mistake loads when I play live at not really looking at stack sizes in live games. As played I’m still gonna jam river as doubt villian wants to shove sets OTT.
Would be interested to know what small blind had.
Before I watch anymore. I’ve seen the flop and I agree with his bet. If the turn gives me a straight and a flush draw I’m raising any bet the button makes and calling any bet the small blind makes. If they don’t bet I’ll check it through and raise either player big on the river if a blank hits. On the contrary if I miss my straight and any other flush draws come out I’m folding to any bet. If I hit the straight and the miss the flush draw I’ll keep the aggression and bet small to get calls. I’d bet half pot cause it looks like I’m just trying to buy the pot and it looks like they might have over pairs or sets here. A pair for sure if not.
Yup that sounds logical
Say what you want but that run out was nasty and well played by both sides .
That’s what happens when the best hand holds up.
I don't think the BTN played this too bad. If I were in BTN's shoes, 88 can either be raised or called before the Flop. Then, he hits a set on the Flop. He likely can't put Hero on JT. Maybe a pocket pair, AK/AQ, KQ, etc. Hard to really put him on JT. BTN's almost-all-in bet on the Turn is interesting. He's representing a 6 with a straight. He still can't imagine Hero having a made hand. Maybe AT or TT. ATh can be likely. Villain is going to have a lot more weaker holding that include a 6. I think he's using that "image" to his advantage here as he was not the preflop raiser.
Very results oriented thoughts probably but when I consider blocker bets it's when I am finding a small amount of hands that must call (6x in this spot) with intention to fold to a raise. Granted stacks would be sickly tricky to that in this spot cuz if Chuck out 100-150 and then get shoved on by what i see as credible range for a boat, can u fold for 500 more getting like 4.2x to one? In theory it seems like yes because that bluff is a 100 bb suicide for a bluffing villain but in practice I can't imagine finding a fold here under any line.
We squeezed J hi and a made a straight lol
But damn. Blocker bet here might give you a chance for thin value vs a 6x or a funky 2pair (that's not a boat) and then just find the magician fold for 100 bb on the end?
Sick spot
Blocker bets are sick.. they seem good when you have range advantage but marginal show down and also good when you have strong but not the nuts and it's hard for either of you to ever have the nuts but when we play 5-5 and people just put there hands up and say I've got a set finally or 2pair or whatever and rip it... how can you fold?
But in this unique spot maybe 100 bb could maybe be saved on the end by just blocking and saying it's impossible to raise a hand that's not a boat here.
I just can't imaginen being raised by a 6x here.
Over the rim sicko turns 3 pair into a bluff maybe. Blown off a chop by the Same hand maybe. But if recs are truly finding those bluffs and thin raises then why do we even play lol..
I think a rec might just snap off 6x, funky 3 pair and maybe even button boat for 5s full and not even think twice about it.
Make an extra 100 from those hands and loose the min vs 5s full lol
On the turn, Hero can bet up to $193 and then 3-bet if the short stack raises.
Yea, I would have assumed he had a 6 or a combo heart draw. Never folding the river.
I encourage the player to not bet hoping their opponents have a strong hand and call but to think of his percieved range and intend to get called by worse
His reasoning made perfect sense, he thought his range included a lot of hands that would fold to any bet and if he did have a strong hand like a set he wanted to get all the money in
This guy has 70 hours of live poker experience and knows theory like someone who's played 10000.
I ❤️ People Who Loose Their Temper!
I love how in every call-in the caller seems to be the only person at the table to have the remotest clue on how to play poker.
“Limper limps. Limper over-limps. Limpitty limp. Limp limp.”
Sadly this is pretty accurate in live poker. An open limp in the CO 😂
I'm never folding that hand in that situation on the river.
Hero, I have 70 hours of live poker, keeping live poker alive. Long Live Hero
What about blocker bet on river and gold to shove?
I was under the impression that all the short stack had to raise to reopen betting was 1.5 times the bet.
I’d like to know what SB had…woulda been sick if it was 55…
I’ve said it a million times… those that can’t take beats it’s bc they’re not confident in their game. I KNOW I’m winning over time. So a single beat never throws me off.
TJhh would be a nice hand to have on turn
I think the frustrated shove is indicative of anything but a 6. If we assume he wasn't acting then why would he be frustrated if he had a 9-high straight on a board where he's almost always good?
I could see him being frustrated given the action. Put yourself in his shoes with just a 6… two other guys clearly love their hand and you have the third nuts… you’d be hoping to chop.
@@dan22482 given the action a 6 is the butter nuts in this situation. You would not sigh and think about putting your money in.
so what did the SB have?
0:38 what do you mean by 'defend down more' and which player are you referring to, the one with or without the collapsed range? Thanks,
He's talking about preflop double callers. Since calling twice is indicative of a weak range it means that a top pair hand like J9s on a board like JT225 may be the best hand you could possibly have in that scenario meaning you will have to call down more.
I've seen this mentality in players like the villain here quite regularly at low stakes where they play the hand passively and at some point its almost as if, despite the board weakening their once strong hand, they feel they've sunk too much money into the hand, want the decision making to be over and know they can justify it to themselves later.
Not saying this can't be a 6 or that we should fold/not shove, but
assuming this is that type of player then they can have a ton of stuff here.
I think hero played it fine. The only mistake is probably betting so huge on the turn as he is not going to take this line with his strong over pairs. But at the same time, I don't mind playing a little imbalanced and going for max value in a multi-way pot where you can cooler a 6.
I can never fold on the river.
- Js10s unblocks 9hXh and any other flush draw for that matter.
- J10 is under-repped as played (hero's likely holding are over pairs and nut flush draws)
- Getting 2:1 odds. I've seen enough stupid s*** in live poker that we are good at least 1/3 times.
- I don't know, 140 BB is just not deep enough to make me hero fold a hand this strong.
Some villains are so bad that they could have more than a set or a six here. Some people would actually jam an A9, A8 (even offsuit) or over pair on that turn. In that case, definitely a river jam to get a call from crap.
The guy jams on the turn after a pot sized bet and an all in with a one liner to a straight. He must be smart enough to surmise that at least one of his opponents has a straight, so why is he jamming? He must either have a flush draw or set. When he goes all in the river I think it's an easy fold.
Why would he jam with a set or FD, when you said he's smart enough to know one of his opponents has a straight? don't get the logic here
I think the villain's line looks like J-10 instead of a 6 or a full house. I could see the villain limping with J-10 off and playing it exactly this way.
I think there's a good chance that you're calling for a chop here.
I thought terrible river was going to be 9 of hearts
I'm confused why you can't raise on the turn in a no limit game. 🤯
He explained it? Since the small blind did not have enough to make a complete raise most places will not allow you to reraise As the action before you is technically a call
The open bet was $240 so to keep the bets open after a call, the raise of the all in player muy have been 2x ($480) so it can open a new round of bets in that street.
@Alex F wait.. but you have all your options open since you are the BB.
@Alex F If you are recalling the facts correctly then the ruling was incorrect and you should have been allowed to go all in. The UTG player in your situation made a legal raise and therefore any raise can still be made of any size. If you went all in, as you should have been able to do, then another player can not make an additional raise after that.
@@alexneorivera4488 clear as mud. 😆
This is the kind of situation wherein I don't want my opponent to chase the river if he got the set on the flop and I already made the nuts on the turn.. I will definitely move all in even I am first to act! If he called and got lucky on the river with his boat so be it but I won't let him get that river card as cheap as possible.. he will need all his chips and gut to call first before getting that river!
It is 2-5 with a table full of pittsters. None of them would likely fold a set even with a 1 liner to a str8.
Not everyone plays fundamental poker, I've seen crazy plays just like everyone else, I would assume pockets and he got lucky by river, which happens all the time
5:10 listen to this part. It shows Bart really has no idea about how people play in the bay area. I won't be surprized if 3 people showed up with a 6 in that hand. (just to be clear i am not disrespecting Bart, point is, the games in bay area seem to be way too loose to me)
Noob here, why can’t sb jam the turn?
the action doesn't "re-open" unless a legal raise is made, which is to raise at least the same amount as the previous raise.
1st example: if you bet $100 on the turn, player B calls $100, and player C raises all-in to $199, then you can only call or fold, because your bet is like a "$100 raise" from $0 to $100, and the all-in raise is less than $100 more. but if player C all-ins or raises to $200 total or higher, then the action is re-opened and you may raise.
keep in mind that it's the raise size, not the total bet size.
2nd example: if blinds are $5/$10, then in preflop, there's already a first "bet" of $10. if you raise preflop to $30 total, it's a raise of $20, so legal raises after you must raise by at least $20 more as well. if shortstack all-ins for $50, this re-opens the action and allows you to raise again, since he also raises by 20 (your $30 bet -> $50.) this confuses a lot of players because they think it must be "double the bet", when in reality it must be "raise by at least the same amount as the previous raise."
Legit hand. ThT guy playing poker the non standard way won him a big pot. Lol
Some bro therapy time
Could easily be 78 as well
Need to be 190 on turn.
why
@@BlinkPls SB with $387 back means they are super likely to go with it when you bet and they have anything. This lets you at least reraise because the betting will open back up.
@@CudleWudles52 ahh I see. I dunno, it only protects for the very specific situation of both getting a call and a jam which is pretty unlikely. probably more profitable to maximize value on the turn as a higher-order priority. but you definitely have a good point and it might be better.
6 8 spades
slowplay set on flop, genuinley try to get it in on the turn? like what? is villain stupid?
BTN is one lucky donk
Maybe Hero over-bet the Turn, which pretty much guarantees his whole Stack gets in on the River. His logic (Targeting 6s) seems flawed. His pre-Flop "story" aligned with AK, JJ, QQ, TT + suited Broadways. If he slows down (after making the Nuts on the Turn) maybe he CAN find a fold on a River jam. He was playing his actual cards, rather than his Range.
That's the small stakes exploit which will win you the most money. Rivers a brick, hero shoves, button still most likely calls. This is Barts guide to small stakes exploits. Play your hands fast regardless of range.
Once again I'm shocked by Bart's misread.
As described, the guy CLEARLY had a set on the turn, or at worst 2 pair with the seven.
It was super clear.
The guy did the frustrated all in combo with the 1 liner out there. Thats the I'm never ever folding a set but that 7 gave someone a straight, oh well hope I hit.
When board pairs and guy shoves 700 all in its a boat 95% of the time. Easy fold
I call
Bullshit
Disagree. The guy could be using the same logic trying to get it in with 6x. “I don’t have the nuts but I can’t fold a straight here”
Bart does a great job imo and I’ve learned a ton from him, but sometimes he doesn’t put himself in the mind of a fish very effectively. I’ve seen this frustrated shove (or attempted shove in this case) a million times from a fish who knows he’s beat but can’t let go of his once-promising hand.
There’s no way it’s a 6, which would likely just call the turn (and wouldn’t be too upset about it, only losing to JT and an unlikely T6). Then he’d certainly just check back the river. If he’s seriously concerned about being beat here why wouldn’t he just check it back? He’s not turning his straight into a bluff.
What about 98 for two-pair? First, fish are more capable of folding two-pair compared to a set. And even if it were 98, again why would he shove the river after he’s blessed with a check from Hero? Would make zero sense.
A set is the hand in this case 90% of the time. And the fact we now lose to 97, 87, and 75 is the cherry on top. Definitely a fold for Hero, though hard to do in real time in a huge pot.
@@dan22482 I think villain checks back on the river if he has a 6.
The flopped set is much more likely. He was pumped on the flop, picturing himself winning a huge pot. The bad turn card followed by the shove and call broke his heart, so he tried to make a tilting shove with the hopes of hitting the river. He wasn’t allowed to, then he hit the river and excitedly insta-shoved.
@@blakefredrickson6506 I don’t necessarily disagree, but it seems odd to “tilt shove” in his spot when he can just call the additional $140 hoping to get there. If he’s convinced a set is behind why jam? End of the day it’s tough to known exactly what fish are thinking in these spots..
I love your videos, but absolutely hate misleading titles. I've specifically been looking for mental game hand reviews after watching recent Rampage mental punt videos last week at Doug polk's The Lodge casino.
Cooler. Somewhat self-inflicted by juicing it pre.
I can’t stand internet pros who think they know what they are talking about because we see the whole cards. It’s live poker. Most people are idiots and play a 6 this way. No way you put them on a set
Guy says I have nuts so villain can't. Wrong on every level. Guy could have J10hh so you are drawing dead. Second 7 is nonsense. Have to fold
It was a bad beat - terrible play on the turn by the villain, nothing you could do about it really, you can't fold on the river.
ACTION SHOULD ALWAYS REMAIN OPEN. WORST RULE IN POKER EVER. TAKES AWAY THE STRATEGY FROM THE GAME!
That policy leads to collusion.
Say you bet $100, a guy calls, then the third guy goes all in for $105. You’re saying that you should be able to reraise to any amount to drive the other guy out? Doesn’t make a lot of sense and makes collusion easier.