ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video we are taking an in-depth look at the game to learn about how it runs on your machine. If something does not make sense, be sure to comment under the video or ask in my discord.
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minecraft shouldn't incoorporate the mods, they can code it themselves. i have a feeling that it's like with windows where even the devs admit the code is shit and bloated but they are paid to add new stuff quickly, not optimise the game
Quickly, hah I don’t know about that. We used to see a couple updates every year back in the old days, now we barely get 1 a year with minimal changes
I do think they should skip a few of the bianual updates for performance improvements and bug fixes. Could be put out there as "Project Fluidity" for JE and "Project Solidity" for Bedrock. I would not be opposed to them ditching a version if it meant that the one would be better supported. The main issue tho would be all the mods and hard work of the community going to waste.
@@Because-Linux yeah, this ofc becomes more and more reasonable every year because minecraft is just more completed now, like with the caves and cliffs and nether update. i think they should be doing an end update and then optimising the game instead of the trial chambers garbage
@@MobsterYT_ personally i think most of the slowness comes from making sure their ideas are minecrafty and feel vanilla, not implementation itself. i think i heard somewhere where they were explaining the long back and forth process of just making the textures for a new mob and stuff and making sure it fits the game and whatever. for something like game optimisation where they don't have to do that whole process they should be able to get something actually done in that timeframe. that's also kinda the same when i'm programming something, the idea and method takes way longer than actually writing the code, maybe that's just me tho i cant speak for them ofc
Like with windows huh? What a coincidence
I actually doubt that Java Edition will be phased out because Mojang puts too much work into it. They rewrote the lighting engine to almost match the Starlight mod (which was almost 20x faster). They also keep adding more features to datapacks, which datapacks have practically no chance of a port to Bedrock Edition. Datapacks in 1.21 can be used to create recipes for new items, new foods, and new tools. Further, most structures can be changed, terrain created, and even new dimensions can be generated all in datapacks. They continue adding lots of features to Java Edition that don’t end up on Bedrock Edition
Oh, we Bedrockers can wait. You'd be surprised. 😏
@@DBWave94 I have waited 8 years now for basic commands like /scoreboard and all I got were dummy objects.
A good working and compatible bedrock would be nice, but is pretty unlikely
@@DBWave94 and you're gonna keep waiting, cope.
I get confused why people like bedrock, its feels so much worse, maybe its just from 10 years of playing Java but... man even breaking blocks looks so weird on bedrock xD doesnt feel fun or enjoyable. and ofc a million other things bedrock lacks just makes it crap, sad to see all these kids get sucked into it not knowing what they are missing :/
@@SethXB How about stop stigmatizing people who play the way they want to? I joke because I know that Java players treat Bedrock players like pond scum and it's totally unwarranted. Granted, I play both Java and Bedrock editions, and the reason I enjoy Bedrock is because of its versatility. I can't play Java with my buddies on, Xbox, PS or the Switch. That's why it's so successful. Not everyone is willing or has the means to get a gaming PC or a PC in general.
Minecraft is like a skyscraper that was constructed on top of what was meant to be a small house, but they just kept adding more and more things until the whole thing is structurally unstable.
Best way to put it
crazy thing is that bedrock was created partly for this reason, but it's even more buggy than java somehow
@@iamafanofmanythings3973 It's because they aren't incentivized to fix bugs but to make more monetized content. Modding should have been the top priority for Bedrock instead because of monetization they are actually fully removing any possibility of modding bedrock in the next update.
The only bugs they fix are with renderdragon cause its like super modern and has ray-tracing
This is why i advocate for minecraft 2. It doesnt have to add new content, it can just be a rewrite of the code.
Mojang is such a huge company... you would think they could devote SOME developers to work on optimization.
Optimizations work will break minecraft. It's a rinse and repeat project like most of game dev work is. Though the point is, if you got one sections of programmers currently rewriting the game, you could as well as stop working on new content since you have no idea if that new content will even be functional after the optimizations changes.
Around the globe, a lot. In office, 25 people isn’t that big.
Its owned by microsoft now. You could make the same criticizms about windows.
@@Real_AronIsn't 25 people both Bedrock and Java developers?
@prettyawesomeperson2188 They got some developers devoted to working on the combat update, but its kinda abandoned right now, so I guess you're right.
Average MC performance - 2 FPS when looking at the sky
and that's with an i7 and gtx4090ti 128gb RAM
Me when looking up while Nuclear Tech Mod cooling towers are operating:
Mf is running java on a raspberry pi
And you look at the horizon and the fps go spf
gtx 4090ti is crazy there are SO many things wrong here@@PapaLuigi9003
Minecraft 1.20 actually made significant improvements to the lighting engine and made some client lighting engine optimization mods (Phosphor and Starlight) go out of business.
Yeah, Minecraft on my older laptop is running much better than it used to. Optifine doesn’t make much of a difference as it used too. And 1.21 is adding in even more optimization and adds a lot of content. 1.19 and 1.20 were a bit lackluster content wise but following the change log shows a lot of internal changes. And even more internal changes are coming in 1.21. And if mojang actually is working on making it easier for them to add content to the game as they said in minecraft live then that also likely was taking dev time.
1.21 feels like it’s about the same content speed as 1.16’s development.
@@RaiJolt2try using sodium instead of optifine and you'll realise there's a lot more performance on the table.
let's not even talk about distant horizons
@@RaiJolt2 Optifine no longer works well for me. I use Sodium and absolutely refuse to continue using Forge. I've gone Fabric only because of Sodium. I still have a +20-30% performance increase with an RTX 3050 Ti...
I was using sodium for a bit but since i switched to Vulkan (uses vulkan renderer instead of opengl) ive stuck with it for more than a year now, its compatible with a lot of other optimization mods as long as it doesnt mess with the GUI Rendering too much and runs really well without using much power from my computer
starlight still helps a little
IMO If microsoft abandons java it may change the modding experience. lots of mods would pile up on the last version and the update divides in mod experience would not exist.
I mean would still exist. There are 3-4 active mod loaders that arent comaptible right now.
@@Ay-xq7mjThere's Sinytra Connector but I have no idea if it's any good.
People would mod java to keep parity. No denying it.
@@Because-Linuxpeople would mod updates into java faster than mojang would implement them
Lmao yeah true@@zag5434
This reminds me of one of the rare things Paradox decided that was good for a game; the Stellaris custodian team.
That single decision showed how much a game can be improved by literally having like 5 people with no other job than fix code and maybe add some text here or there, to the point that I can actually see a positive difference in performance in the last couple of updates on my old laptop, despite new content being added. It is very much possible to fix minecraft in the same way, but I can already see microsoft/mojang would never sign off on such an idea.
FWIW if Mojang do pull the plug on Java Edition I suspect the majority of those players won't be moving over and instead will just stay on the final version. It's what happened to another game I play.
People still doing it even in Minecraft. I remember after combat upgrade a lot of people still stayed on old version.
Bedrock just not worth it, and many very popular and great mods was created in months or even years, so porting it to bedrock probably will not happen
That's what I'm already doing with java edition. I don't plan on playing any version after 1.19 since Microsoft wants to play big brother with the playerbase.
Most modded community stayed on either 1.7.10 or 1.12 anyways, since newer versions runs so poorly.
A new really cool solution to server lag is beginning to be used in certain servers. Basically there are “shards” each shard is allocated players and each shard sends all the data between them to eachother, so let’s say there are 600 players on 6 shards, each shard is actually its own server that’s simply telling every other shard what’s happening. It’s buggy rn but in the future this could be how all servers are ram.
This is exactly what the server Stoneworks has implemented on their newest world. The single world is run on 6 seperate servers (shards) that are all coordinated by a central database server.
Of course, the main difficulty that Stoneworks has encountered is that the vast majority of their plugins, many of which are third party, have had to essentially rebuilt from scratch as they were not designed to work with this shard system.
tbh, if microsoft drops Java once and for all, not much is going to change for me
for all these years i've never really enjoyed minecraft vanilla that much, i always got bored and ended up installing a bunch of mods
because of that, to this day i'm playing versions such as 1.7.10 and 1.12.2 due to mod support on those
so it's been pretty long since i've ever felt any benefit from the new updates they pump
I find 1.12.2 runs smoothest for me with mods.
@@Speed001 Yeah the stability (and launch speed) improvements that have come since 1.7.10 are the big draws for me. I don't miss waiting ten minutes for a big pack to load
Same to me, since i play only servers i dont really care about new versions, playing alone in a survival world isn't excitant
Bu what about no swimming, playing versions older than 1.13 is unbearable to me
@@Narko_Marko people have been backporting versions, someone probably has made that mod already.
At 3:50 I would like to make a minor correction. It is safe to assume those are part of 2 cores on your machine, as Intel CPUs like your 13420H max out at 2 threads per core. Your CPU, with 8 cores and 12 threads, has 4 high-performance cores and 4 low-power efficiency cores. Only the performance cores have multiple threads, and the efficient cores are the bottom 4 charts in your task manager. Most likely those 4 threads you see in use here are the 4 primary threads of the 4 performance cores, as those are the 4 fastest threads on the CPU, followed by the efficient cores, and then the secondary threads of the performance cores. Windows will put a game that uses N threads on the N fastest threads it can find.
I'm glad that the Optifine deal didn't go through, that thing is incredibly archaic and outdated. Also closed source- they could just effectively implement a lot of the known improvements other mods make regardless of "permission."
Good to see you know your stuff, I hear way too many people say that Java is a big reason for the performance being bad and as you pointed out, Java is a factor but it is mainly how the game was designed rather than the underlying language
Java costs maybe 10% performance here.
this video is great, however. id like to point out as of recently a softwaremade by the PAPERMC team that made the paper server software called "Folia" folia is the definition of a multicore, multithread server. folia is too complicated for me to explain but it DOES exist.
also if microsoft DOES pull the plug on java edition people will just mod the game and make the updates themselves. since modders are alot faster then the mojang devs anyways and can optimize thier code.
Mods are not a substitute for game development. The bugs will be worse than Bedrock
@hoovysimulator2518 can you tell me what the mod is?
Folia has massive issues and breaks vanilla behavior.
@@nnnik3595 as of now. its getting better fast. though
@@nnnik3595 Practically almost all modded server software "breaks vanilla behaviour" in some way. Most of them aren't even relevant for the 99% of players that arent creating massive contraptions that abuse 29 different implementation-defined behaviours.
And don't forget that Microsoft likely has the last say regarding updates, so they probably forbid making significant optimizations. It's evident by now that M$ benefits from people getting more expensive hardware given Windows 11's overshot' system requirements
If they did pull the plug on Java Edition the backlash would lose them a CRAP ton of money and people would hate bedrock edition even more causing sales to drop
nah, modded content would just (continue to) carry java.
just think back to what happened when the 1.9 combat update dropped; tens, if not hundreds of thousands of players refused to update and countless servers stayed on 1.8.
we're even seeing a resurgence of mods for the beta and even alpha builds of the game which are arguably more popular now than they were back then.
people who prefer to play java for everything it has to offer that bedrock lacks aren't gonna jump ship just because official updates for it stop one day.
We already see mods like a day or two after new features are even revealed that fully implement them - before official java snapshots, so we won't be missing out on any of the new update content bedrock would continue to receive...
I think it's inevitable, I just choose to think of it as java being "set free" when it happens - for the community to make what we want of it, rather than being "dropped"... (but maybe that's just cope, what do I know.)
@@TheiBunny Abandoning the games roots is blasphemous and heracy. If not for java edition bedrock edition would've never happened.
There is a new server software called Folia that actually adds multi-threading to the server-side, this is how 2b2t is now running nowadays
But it's not compatible with redstone (thanks to paper being trash) and has many bugs.
Man, I hate these kind of videos and then the people in the comments acting like mojang hasn't done anything for ages.
Examples: New Light engine, shader based rendering, the entire OpenGL render pipeline has been slowly fixed since 1.14, switching to open source and optimized math libs, parsing item nbt only once at runtime, choosable chunk file compression, storing entities in their own files, updating to newer Java versions and using modern features, etc.
Multithreading is also not the solution for everything, shown by adding a handful of mods, getting easily over 1000 fps, while not introducing any major multithreading. This also disproves the myth that Minecraft is slow because of Java, since modded Java Edition can easily beat Bedrock on the same PC.
If you really want to blame mojang for something, then it's for not adding selectable graphics modes like modern OpenGL(used by Sodium), modern GPU features like Mesh shading(used by Nvidium), Vulkan(used by Vulkanmod), LODs(Distant horizons/voxy) or instanced rendering(done by Flywheel). Right now the rendering is mainly held back by Minecraft trying to use the same render pipeline, settings, features and logic for some 2010 laptop with Intel graphics and a modern gaming PC.
yeah. i think the only reason why they aren't doing all at once is that java would fall behind bedrock with content updates
THANK you. "Mojang does nothing with the game" like bruh do you even read the snapshot notes? I read them every week, and we chat with the devs about it in the Minecraft commands discord server. It's insane how much they do and how little credit they get for it
people who say just multithread the game have no idea what they are talking about
@@minecraftreportsmultithread is why bedrock is bugrock
Minecraft is the ship of theseus, but they didn't replace parts, they just cover them and add to them and then it just turns into a fucking wooden block
I want to see the "Multicore" Update instead of all that pilliger and panda stuff.
That is ignorant and stupid.
Thanks for explaining multithreading and its drawbacks. I have seen people in plugin dev chats mention it, but I didn’t really understand.
One thing I think you should have highlighted when it comes to bedrock versus java edition, is to highlight that Java runs off of the JVM, which is an extra step to running the code. C++ gets compiled directly. Great video!
2b2t have updated to at least 1.19 some month ago, and they are also using some sort of world divison were parts of the world run on differents severs
Minecraft was originally released in 2009 by Notch as "Cave Game" for PC players. The full version, titled “Minecraft 1.0 - Adventure Update” released in 2011.
erm actually- Beta 1.8 was the adventure update then 1.0 right after was called official release
I think the performance has gotten better, 25 chunks with 144fps, on my ryzen 9 5900x x rtx 3070Ti. If I stretch to 32 chunks it's just as smooth but does stutter a bit.
Keep in mind, you have a top end CPU with none of that Intel “E core” nonesense. People with older CPU’s (which if you look at the Steam Hardware Survey, is a lot of people) and newer Intel CPU’s and their half-assed E-Cores will notice a very different story.
Minecraft could still use a lot of optimization. Just look at how much cleaner it runs with proformance mods. So much less stutter even on my 5800X3D and 6800XT. Heck I can run a smooth 120fps at 72 chunks, something nither vanilla Java nor Bedrock can do.
there is no way this channel is THIS underrated
keep up man!
I appreciate that! Be sure to check out some of my other stuff
Unfortunately, performance mods such as sodium, doesn't help much on old low end hardware.
For instance, i had a laptop with an i3 4150 & a GT 880M.
1.12 runs at 60FPS without issues & Additional mods, but i only get 1/5 of that on 1.19.
Sodium and tons of other performance mods only increase framerate to 20 FPS.
Yeah but I just play on linux with my i3
I get 60 fps and chunks don't lag the game
Yeah Sodiums modern rendering pipeline requires modern Hardware.
Even on my 3800x/5600xt system I get stutter every time a chunk is loaded and low fps when render distance is higher than 18
I am very skeptical that single threading is as much of a culprit as you're saying it is. I was under the impression that Minecraft Java's poor performance had more to do with garbage collection/overhead associated with automatic memory management. Besides, games running on a single core is pretty standard, no?
Minecraft garbage collection is bad too, but not as noticeable with machines that can allocate more ram to the game. Java does not do a good job with handling threads as I believe they need to be created manually instead of dynamically like C++. In modern Minecraft the different dimensions have been separated onto their own threads supposedly but I wouldn’t say it has made much of a difference
It's many different factors, it's the whole game's architecture that's poor. And like a lot of modern software, when "refactoring" is done, it's usually to make the code "cleaner" at the expense of performance. (I dislike the whole "clean code" philosophy, I'd call it a false dichotomy, except that its often ever worse than that - it's lose-lose.)
@@diskpoppy Developer experience is constantly at odds with the basic usability of software nowadays. Look at all the desktop apps made with Electron - shit performance, takes 5 minutes to load, but you can write everything in Javascript, so it's ok!!!
I think using "clean code" is okay when you understand how to utilize compiler/implementation optimizations. It's important to understand the workings of your implementation if you want performant code, and it will usually come out looking idiomatic if you did it right.
@@Joe_Yacketori With "clean code" I was referring to "Uncle Bob's" philosophy and related definitions.
@@diskpoppy Ah yeah okay then. To be fair, doesn't everyone already hate that book by now? Lol
As someone whose PC has struggled with MC, especially since 1.16 dropped, I've been saying for a while now that I wish Minecraft would just release a version called "The performance update" or something, and the entire update is just dedicated to fixing all of the built up issues with the game's performance and ability to run, and allow all of the following sub-updates to cater to fixing any bugs creating by doing so.
underrated channel man
If updates stop for Java, that would be a good thing. It would become a modding paradise. Not to mention if we wanted features add in the "Official Version," they could just be modded in.
I guess it would give people enough time to backport all the imporant mods to older versions rather than having to constantly race for new versions. I guess controller support for older MC would be pretty neat(lel).
Bedrock will never become the "main" version of MC. It has next to no redeemable qualities that are actually worth sticking around for, and a lot of OGs like myself stick by java because it literally is the definitive MC experience. I don't care how many microtransactions Microshit wants to put into that mess of a game, Java becoming unsupported will just make modders even more motivated to toy with the game as an open source product than they already do now.
Java is the people's MC, Bedrock is Microshit's cash cow. Oh, and this megacorp still hasn't found a way to implement all the Java elements into Bedrock that have piled up in the past decade, so there's that for you. Bedrock really is only "popular" because of console and mobile players who also may have a Realms subscription. And, hey, I can respect that, being able to play MC on the go, no repercussions, across all your devices including PC, is pretty good. Bedrock doesn't even let you roll back versions, though, which I WOULD have used to lock my game in a version that'd let me use GeyserMC to circumvent Realms entirely. Oh well.
I don't think that Java Team is not focused on optimization, in fact they are working, in recent versions they removed the need for Starlight and LazyDFU, starlight used to be the best lighting engine making light updates up to 20x faster but now it is not required, and for the LazyDFU which used to delay Data fixer upper which took a lot of time while loading the game, also adding mods like sodium or lithium would break so many things since they rewrite the entire rendering and server side system respectively
Lithium does not actually break anything. Most fabric mods are compatible with Sodium.
@@nnnik3595 Forge Mods, Renderer relying on current Rendering Engine and much more
@@sonychandel1878 in my experience fabric performance mods fare far better.
@@nnnik3595 Forge has more mods than Fabric and then also we are forgetting about server softwares like Spigot and PaperMC
If your a Bedrock player and have Nvidia RTX GPU. You can boost the performance by running the Nividia Profile Inspector. Search for Minecraft and then set both Raytracing options to RT Disable, then save the changes. For some reason having raytracing enabled in the driver kills performance even if you never enabled it in the game. If you can test your FPS before and after. You should see you will get much higher fps even in really block heavy builds. I really noticed the better performance when I had 300+ Chickens in my farm. You will have to make this change every time you update the drivers.
Bedrock also uses Direct3d instead of OpenGL like Java, which causes a big performance gap, as OpenGL is just overall the slowest possible graphics renderer.
Nice to note, I stayed away from rendering and mostly focused on the performance of the game on the cpu itself. I don’t have enough expertise in graphics
@@MobsterYT_ fair enough. And I forgot to mention there is a mod called the Vulkan Mod that swaps out OpenGL for Vulkan, which is around on par to Direct3d depending on systems, some might be faster on Direct3d, some might be slower.
theres much slower
@@ultrat00n 🧢
Bedrock uses a different renderer based on platform. Direct3d is on windows/xbox only
In regards to Multi Threading Minecraft. Paper MC team have been working on a project called Folia which aims to try and allow minecraft to better utilize many cores at once. They have a blog that details the mechanisms and they have preformed tests up to 1000 players on a single server with around 8-ish TPS.
You have pretty much the exact same laptop as me!
Except I upgraded the ram since anything other than one task at once, or heavier games will make it the most unstable thing ever with only 8GB. Another 8GB stick is like 10$.
I need faster ram than your regular 10$ you can find
@@MobsterYT_ You mean you need more capacity than 16GB? The max ram speed supported for DDR4 laptops is 3200Mhz and that's very easy to get.
i doubt anything is gonna happen to java edition anytime soon. Mojang still makes most of their money from sales, not marketplace. their marketing mostly comes from community engagement, so them abandoning java is probably gonna have them lose a lot more gain, otherwise it would've happened by now, or at least we would've seen signs. in the most recent updates, they have been completely reworking datapacks (a Java exclusive feature), as well as made optimizations by rewriting the light engine and decreasing spawn chunks
Pretty much. MS clearly hates Java edition and wants it gone, but they just cannot reasonably drop it because a large amount of PC users would not like it at all if it were removed and the question is irrelevant for other plattforms since it's only bedrock over there anyways. If I had to guess, that is the reason why they merged the sales and gave all Java users Bedrock for free back then. They ran analytics on if they could just replace Java edition and found out that it is too risky. Even if they cannot get rid of Java, they would still prefer Java players play bedrock and buy into the microtransations.
Under that theory, that is probably why they were infact brazen enough to replace Console edition. They simply theorycrafted that if they hide the removal under a "great update that gives crossplay with everyone", that they can get away with it when such a trick was not applicable for Java. And we see, they were right on people swallowing it, lol.
It’s Microsoft. All of their software is slow. Imagine they’d implement proper concurrency along with a modern renderer like Vulkan in the Java edition.
1.20 improved the lightning engine so much that starlight is obsolete. 1.21 updated to java 21, decreased spawn chunks drastically & cut 32bit support. They def improved a lot.
Now I hope they tackle sodium like improvements for 1.22.
Uhh, what you are referring to as threads not really being threads (more like logical cores, hyperthreading is weird... But effective) aside, an x86 processor only has *at most* one additional "thread" per core, meaning those are in fact two separate cores you pointed out. As evidenced by 4 different high utilisation charts. It is entirely possible whatever you are screen recording with or otherwise running is using the additional core though.
That aside, having more cores benefits Minecraft even if it's single threaded to a decent extent as well. It means the OS can give all running programs time to execute more frequently.
Another thing to note is that randomness with threading isn't a bug unless officially classified as such. It might be undesirable behavior, but it is expected when you have two separate bits of hardware handling things asynchronously. It is something that you are supposed to catch, not something the processor did wrong.
The opposite side of this is that Java addition has contraptions that are directional.
Yes, its very hard to optimise the game while also adding features.
But I dont think people would complain about 1.23: the optimisation update. Just add a bunch of redstone stuff too and all of a sudden, the theme lines up too
I found this mod, which obviously isn't fully done yet, so I wouldn't make a complete switch to it. But it's called VulkanMod. It's on Curseforge and Modrinth and it's for fabric and quilt. What it does is, it replaces the default Minecraft renderer OpenGL with the Vulkan renderer, which is faster and newer than the current one. And it improves performance. In terms of FPS, it gets around the same as Sodium, little differences though. Of course, with it being unfinished, there are bugs to be expected. Like for example, a bug which makes parts of a chunk invisible (from personal experience) and other glitches. Another downside of it is, that it doesn't support many mods. Because the mods are made with OpenGL, Vulkan doesn't have support for them. And that means also no shader support. That could change in the future though. I think with more people working on it and mod and shader compatibility, it could be really good, and a good competitor for other performance mods.
TL;DR VulkanMod is a mod that's good for performance, but it's buggy and doesn't support mods
I feel like if Java support were to hypothetically end, they'd probably make a fused version of both versions of the game, like a "Minecraft 2"
Minecraft's first builds were released in 2009, but its official release was in 2011 btw
Since we all know the sad truth that Java will die one day and Bedrock will keep going, how do ya'll think TH-cam content will go on?
Making servers or SMP's, mods and such would be harder since they would have to be a verified creator otherwise pages like CurseForge and Modrinth would have to start hosting Bedrock mods and such, i've personally tried making a resourcepack for bedrock without being a verified creator, just a random dude making a custom pack for my own private server with friends that's cross play, it was annoying to figure out and it has a few limits compare to Java.
Also how do you think they will handle modding in general?
Will they ever add an Anti Cheat to the game and if so, how would that affect installing unsupported mods, textures and so on?
Future for minecraft is uh...
Let's hope they don't shut down java, i mean people prob would create mods to add in new stuff into the latest java version at the time but i'm sure that can only go on for so long.
I’m sure people will just stay on that old unsupported version of the game on Java
You don’t have to be a verified creator to make and use behavior/resource packs on your own server. It takes less than a minute to set one up from scratch and have it so players joining auto-download it.
If Java is discontinued, someone will make a custom Java. If you are talking about Minecraft Java then that too will be supported by mods. Too much work to abandon.
If they discontinue java, people will keep adding the same updates Mojang adds to Bedrock into java, and I don't get what you mean "that can only go on for so long". If one developer/team stops making the new updates into mods, another one will take their place. Bedrock edition will stop getting official updates before java edition stops getting mods.
I'd like to make version 1.8.9 take full advantage of at least one thread, but it never will.
FPS is quite unstable, though I have very good specs and no throttling. I've never been able to get stable frame times on any computer
Somehow my experience with bedrock is that it has worse performance. On java I get about 120-200 fps on 32 chunks, but then on bedrock I have trouble getting over 50 fps. This is on a 16 thread cpu which sits at a boost speed of 4.2 ghz, and an AMD 780m gpu. I think the issue is something with the GPU drivers, bedrock edition barely sees any GPU usage for me, while java will max out my GPU.
Bedrock(Pocket) Edition was made for smartphones in the mid 2010s. It makes sense why there isn't a lot of GPU usage, but there definitely should be more of a load on the GPU whenever it's an option.
Java on the other hand was built for PC from the ground up and would eventually utilize the GPU more than the CPU as technology continued to advance. It did get ported to multiple game consoles and a few handhelds until that was shut down by Microsoft in favor of microtransaction hell.
If Microsoft really tried to pull the plug on Java edition I think the outrage would be enormous and I can't see it happening. Players will probably also do workarounds and so on because it's easy to give something but a lot harder to take it away from the people that received it.
The quality of the video is GREAT, I didn't even check on who uploaded it, and it was shocking to see that you have "only" 500 subs. Def gonna check on more vids, hope you grow bigger.
it's kinda messed up that the only way to get good performance on a server, at least for an smp, is to use fabric with lithium. and lithium is required. my friend group server is on fabric, because paper is shit, and there was a bug with lithium, so we removed it for a couple days. the performance was absolutely dying with 3+ people online.
Remember your OG fans at the beginning of your channel
Very well made video, remember me when you inevitably get big!!!!
If it ever came to ending Java support, Mojang should rewrite the render engine even if its a massive task. Also even if they did stop updating Java, fan mods would probably add the features anyway
Microsoft has already supported the Java version FAR longer than thought they would.
Roblox when you destroy an entire building:Light work no reaction😆
Fortnite when you destroy an entire building:light work, no reaction😅
Minecraft when you look up: it’s got a little kick🥵
Here's the thing: Mojang is now owned by Microsoft. Microsoft bought Mojang because of Minecraft, but not because they loved the game, it's because they love the profit it can generate.
Would Microsoft rather have the game perform better, maybe yielding a 10% increase in active players, or an update with new content, potentially yielding 10% more new purchases? A profit driven company doesn't give a sh*t about the user experience beyond what is playable. They would rather get 10 people to purchase the game than to get 1000 people to continue playing it.
you think modders will keep the game alive longer if they pull the plug on java addition? cause, from what I know, that's the only version where you can get the most mods without paying, cause the mods are made by the community
2:30 just were about to say why we cant mod the linux kernel so minecraft has 80% execution time given from the kernel xD
hey commander fancy seeing you here?
@@KingJellyfishII hello there, when will you aprox. Be able to help with the control unit?
@@ItsCOMMANDer_ potentially after Wednesday since I'm still doing a lot of uni stuff rn
@@KingJellyfishII k, np
That's actually what process niceness does!
Minecraft also uses OpenGL which is a higher level graphics programming library which usually yields worse performance in comparison to DirectX or Vulkan. It also does not implement greedy meshing, or LODs which are techniques commonly used to reduce the number of triangles being drawn per frame.
Imo the solution to Minecraft's performance problems isn't allowing for multiple cores to be utilized (throwing cores at performance problems is never a good solution), but instead by looking over and optimizing their existing algorithms. (as of 1.19 the lighting engine was completely overhauled to allow for faster generation)
Bruh it feels like mojang just fucks about in the office for three years and then adds shit without thought in one when they realise they need an update. Like who tf thought smithing templates were a good idea. And completely scrapping crafting netherite from scratch too like what the hell 😂
4:40 I would argue this point. While C++ is faster because it is natively compiled language, the majority of issues in Minecraft Java is not from Java being the language it is written, but because Minecraft developers don't spend enough time optimizing their game. It all depends on time and skill of a developer (and if management wants to spend time and money on it obviously). Bad C++ code can be 10 times slower than Java.
Also I would argue that C++ is better than Java for doing multithreading. In Java it is a lot easier to do multithreaded code without losing much performance, while in C++ you will probably create millions of bugs and crashes.
Also bedrock edition is more performant probably not because of C++, but because developers wrote it from scratch while understanding what game should look like, while Java was gradually built on top of old code which complicates integrating new code while not breaking old code... and multiply that by 15 years of Minecraft age...
Also rendering part is so slow because Mojang not only doesn't take time to optimize it (apart from lighting engine, thank god they optimized at least something) but also because they refuse to use new OpenGL features that can increase FPS on modern systems, I haven't looked into minecraft code in a while, but I remember that they used a more than a decade old OpenGL features (OpenGL 1.4 or 2.0 I think). I think they said that they don't want to break compatibility with older systems that don't suppoer newer OpenGL, but I would argue that these systems can't even run minecraft anymore (because OpenGL 2.0 was released in 2004)
They could without any problems upgrade rendering engine to OpenGL 4.6 (which is the latest, from 2017) and make checks for features that aren't supported by player GPU and fallback to using older features. I think they can get away by using OpenGL 3.3 with a very good performance.
Mcmtfabric was rly good for spreading the tasks on all cores and it made the game soo much smoother but was only on 1.19
Bedrock also has performance issues. With big builds, the cpu becomes the bottleneck even with rtx on.
Minecraft being number 1 with no other games coming close to take it's throne is thd reason why the game's development is so stagnant. There just is no profit to be made by investing in developing the game.
"4 boxes" in task manager can't really be part of the same core. Hyper threading is in 99.99% of processors done with 2 threads on single core.
Minecraft (Java Edition)'s performance has increased a lot in the past couple years - it's far from perfect, yes, but we're moving in the right direction.
Also, all these new overhauls we're getting (for example the ongoing transition to item components instead of the old NBT) indicates that Java will keep going for the foreseeable future :)
"Minecraft: Java Edition has been around for nearly 13 years now"
Minecraft is literally celebrating it's 15th anniversary right now. Minecraft version 1.0 has been around for 13 years but minecraft as a whole has been around since 2009
i'd welcome with open arms an update with merely small features but big optimizations
Wow your videoquality is wayy over the top for your channel size lol! thought you were a big channel haha keep up the work
It’s getting to the point to where I have to play on a lower version bc I get like 10 fps
Personally I play on PS4 edition Minecraft, and I do so primarily because its performance when it comes to render distance is superior to the Bedrock Editions. I’d appreciate if the performance was better than or at the very least equal to older versions of Minecraft.
I recently found out my current laptop can hardly run Bedrock edition.
There is actually some custom server software called folia which runs it multithreaded, however most plugins wont work with it without specifically added compatibility
Yeah it wouldn't surprise me if the end goal for Microsoft is to phase out Java edition, it's a pain to code and only exists due to it being the original version. If they do want Bedrock to be taken seriously by the greater community they have a lot of work to do with the MANY needed bug fixes, parity changes, and Bedrock jank in general.
They don't really need Bedrock to be taken seriously, just look at Bedrock's playerbase, its bigger than Java's because of iPad kids and console players, and its already printing out money for them.
@@outrowed yup this is the unfortunate state of the game. I don't doubt the game will be supported by modders for many years but the game simply needs a better foundation. There are multiple projects trying to recreate the game's core concept but none of them will get the same love as the original minecraft
I think for the programmers the bedrock version is more painful to code than java, because you need to deal with multiple hardware types, you have switch, pocket, windows, xbox, and many others, each with their own controls and hardware limitations.
@@bowiemtlnone of them will ever come close to Minecraft Java's feature set.
Minecraft shouldn't and most importantly, can't incorporate those mods into the game.
Performance issues is the biggest reason why i don't play anymore
Edit: no, i'm not switching to bugrock edition. I have other games that i can play
I recently got back into Minecraft and have been very disappointed by how the game refuses to hold a steady framerate!! I leave it uncapped, I get anywhere from 75 - 90. I cap it at 90, I get 65 - 85. i cap it at 70, i get 60 - 70. i cap it at 60, it stays at 55.
i'm running it off of an apple silicon mac, too, and while there's better out there, they're still powerful, and even fi they weren't, they are at LEAST well beyond the minimum specs to run minecraft.
I LOVE that whenever I look around quickly in MC my fps drops to less than 20 fps and stutters consistently. Its been like that for years and it always pisses me off when i see it.
its the mob AI that is killling the fps of minecraft,mobs ai are very poor designed in terms of performance,they sacrifficed persormance just so they will make mobs more annoying,like how skeleton started mooving while targeting which it has very bad impact to the performance,because every tick the mob is scaning for player,looking at him,getting the coordinates of the player so it can know which side will be right and left to move,on top of that once the player leave the distance the skeleton will move forward to catch up with the player and every tick with all that mooving the skeleton has to stay focused and get the cordinates of the player and turn towards it while aiming so the skeleton will not miss.
note:this was only the ai of the variations of the skeleton out of many mobs in minecraft.
I’ve heard people make the joke for like 6 years straight but never got a genuine answer, HOW is this insanely rich company with all these developers working at a pace slower than a single mod developer without any changes that should be standard to any video game
I just hope that Minecraft Java will become open source in one day...
Why? If you just want to see how the game works, there are already ways to decompile it into readable source code. What would you do if it was open source
Wouldn't this be the performance with mods? Because vanilla Minecraft runs amazingly well and never has any issues for me.
@MobsterYT_ no, all modern CPUs only have two threads per core*, using "one core" is never what is done but "one thread" (using a different thread on the same core or a different core altogether is chosen by the scheduler and not the program)
* Your specific CPU has a mix of cores with two threads and cores with a single thread since it is a 13th generation Intel, which utilizes a big.LITTLE architecture.
oops, forgot I'm talking about 3:55
It blows my mind how badly they fucked up bedrock. They had the chance to rewrite the game from the ground up, fundamentally able to gain performance and speed.
But it runs WORSE THAN JAVA. It’s a joke. The animations are slower, the menus are slower, laggier, crappier, and the entire game itself is infested with bugs. Desync is such an issue that they’re not sure if they can even fix it. That’s how bad this is.
Can't agree more, and people still defend it... Other than to playing with friends, playing bedrock is just torture
To be fair, vanilla unmodded performance has improved quite a bit since 1.16. Each major version since then has made pretty substantial improvements over the last, however invisible performance mods made by the community are still leagues above any improvements Mojang has ever made. I don't see why they couldn't take a lot of the optimizations made by mods and just remake those improvements themselves. They wouldn't need to add mods straight into the game cuz i know they don't like doing that.
Even with 16GB RAM (RAM limit is set to 8GB for Java) + R5 5600 + RTX 3060 anything more than 16 chunks gives my computer a stroke as long as OptiFine or Sodium is not installed.
Giving Minecraft more than 6GB of RAM actually makes it run worse.
@@nnnik3595 why tho? in Sodium, Minecraft runs smoothly even with 8GB RAM limit.
@@Rasthro Because it would run better.
@@Rasthrofrom what ive heard garbage collection can slow the system down if there is more memory to go through
That's not a conspiracy theory, thats just a fact, and a fear I've had ever since Microsoft bought Mojang.
Regardless of which version you see as the "best", both have it's ups and downs, both gameplay-wise and development-wise. But in terms of development and resource delegation, Mojang's Java team is hindered by Microsoft's Bedrock update cycle. There's a lot of bugs that fundamentally can't be fixed since it's just an issue with Java as a coding language, but so many bugs and features goes to the back burner hell, or flat out removed because of the dumb an unfeasible idea of "parity" that Microsoft keeps pushing. Both versions are and have been negatively impacted by this, and eventually Microsoft will pull the plug on Java. Why wouldn't they? Like you said, they make most of their money off the marketplace on Bedrock, and it works well enough on all devices compared to Java where the money is only on the initial sale, and held by a remnant of a company they've been slowly killing ever since the buyout.
Java will never get faded out
Tbf, they have made changes. Lighting Engine mods like Starlight became basically obsolete, at least clientside, after Mojang implemented the most important changes that those mods used to improve performance in 1.20.
It's still miles behind what it really needs to be, and heck even running a lot of the fabric performance mods the game is still pretty badly optimised, but generally stuff has been slowly changed. Update pace has been slowed partially because of that, they've made a lot of back-end changes in most recent updates.
Also, I don't see Java being phased out too soon. Look at how much they've changed datapacks for 1.20.5+ - it enables a HUGE amount of new community content, all deployable within the game itself. I would imagine it also helps the process of them making content as well, since a lot of the datapack changes over the past few updates have been somewhat de-obfuscating how stuff is referred to by the game.
If they shaft Java they will most likely maintain the old versions on the launcher, which just means the modding community will basically take over the game's development. It's not the old console editions - it's community content is comparable and more than likely superior in number and possibly quality than the bedrock content despite yk, bedrock's larger playerbase and monetary incentive.
Heck, there are mods that basically fork minecraft development from older versions, most prominent one I can think of is the "Better than Adventure" Beta mod. If it was abandonded, more of these projects would likely continue as far as they legally could, and given the popularity someone could re-make the game from scratch (can't remember the term, and usually its legally reasonably secure but Minecraft's simplicty might make that harder - Think OpenTTD)
The idea players would switch to bedrock for support is funny to me, people still play 1.8.9 just to stick to what they know, people would rather no more content then they would swap to something they dislike
Minecraft java performance : sucks
Minecraft bedrock -performance- : sucks
You had me in the 2nd half until I saw performance crossed out for bedrock edition
Bedrock edition runs much better than Java because it was designed for mobile devices of course this comes with a sacrifice that being bedrock's limitations
Me: *laughs in bedrock edition*
*laughs in mods*
*laughs in changing the game’s version*
@@puppyenderboy4622 *laughs in having the same ability, but pauses in having a hard time playing Minecraft completely vanilla*
Bugrock, you mean? 'Cuz that shit's clogged with 'em.
The game was started in 2009, and released in 2011. The vast majority of people had 2-4 cores with 2-4 threads for their CPUs, there wasn't much reason to go multi-core beyond that as even the consoles didn't have much in terms of that, the 360 having three cores and the PS3 having one. Notch, also, wasn't that great of a coder, being mostly self-taught. Making the game more muilt-core when the basis of it was mostly single-core is a mammoth undertaking that, to be frank, isn't going to be worth it.
If i remember correctly, the 360 had 3 cores with multithreading and the ps3 had 2 normal non multithread cores and 5 wierd ass proprietary cores that had good theoretical performance but were hard to write code for and thus were rarely used by game devs.
I was wrong the ps3 had 1 normal core at 3.2 ghz and 7 wierd cores. 6 being accessible to applications.
Oh its you again
@@CursedSFMS Indeed.
tbh with microsoft's ressources they could definitely fix it even if it's hard. but they don't care, hire the lowest pay devs and call it a day. minecraft development is a joke, you can see that even if you're not a developer yourself
Minecraft java is still in a lose
As in it has not paid off the billions microsoft paid to notch
@@observerdot2107 Doubt it, besides mobile alone made the 2 billions back, and i'm not even touching on the garbage that is bedrock. They def have the money, and would be worth it to invest it regardless.
@@me67galaxylife I said java is in a loss
Mobile version is bedrock
@@observerdot2107 Your point being ? Minecraft buying still made money, and it would be worthwhile to invest in java regardless since it's still sells and almost all minecraft media is made with java
@@me67galaxylife btw they have some of the highest skilled devs in the entire world.
Many modders over there.
if they pull the plug on java i will quit Minecraft forever
Bro it will never happen
Tlauncher
tbh reprogramming the entirety of minecraft for just optimizations sounds like a good idea, they are one of the most popular games out there and losing players because it slowly gets unplayable ist kinda dumb
'''b- but they are a small dev team, you are asking too much >w
4:39 bedrock is not using C++ and never did. It always been C#. Despite this bedrock edition still has some parts that run on java like network features. They just lie.
Bedrock uses c++ primarily
The time Mojang stops Java development is when the game might die.
There are way to much reasons why Java Players never play Bedrock. And moving is really no option I tried.
So many people will quit playing minecraft. Including many TH-camrs. This could create a chain reaction that kills minecraft. MAYBE.
I hope we'll never find out.
In their position, optimization would be my top priority for updates from the beginning, even if the new content is lacking. Similar to Distant Horizons, though in a different way, adding in LoDs would be among the additions by overlapping polys together in distinct sections of subdivided blocks of 2, 4, 8, 16, or more blocks sharing the same polys along the same plane, aligned to the chunk and region borders, to maintain the voxel appearance of it while using substantially fewer polys for the same volume and culling invisible and transparent poly planes that are obstructed or in line with the player's perspective. One possible complication would be making the subdivided textures for each of them in real-time, ideally with mipmaps averaged from the base texture's color, hopefully being compatible with resource packs and shaders.
If they abandon Minecraft Java I'm still not moving to Bedrock. I'm content with old modded versions anyway.