As a 43-year-old, I am excited about all that lies ahead in terms of the science of mind and where that will lead to in terms of the development of new skillful means to accelerate and ease access to the spiritual path and lead to many more people becoming enlightened than currently are. Psychedelics and neurotechnology will play a vital role.
I’m trained as a neuroscientist and this was exactly what I needed to hear. What a fantastically complimentary pair Rupert and Bernardo are. Exquisite. Thank you so much.
Oh my goodness. I just found gold. I don't know how or why this video was suggested to me but I've just finished it after taking about three days to listen. (Each day a little bit whilst drinking my coffee and looking at the sky and the trees out of my bedroom window.) l've just finished it and I feel elevated and happy. I am thrilled to have been party to such a video and would have never imagined I'd ever understand much at all of the content (given such a title.) But these three men have spoken with such clarity, simplicity and elegance that I have come away understanding more than I could have possibly imagined. And what a release it feels like to remember that we are so much more than the physicality of our experience, this is truly uplifting and feels so liberating when navigating the challenges life presents. It's been a sheer delight accessing this video and I feel like I've instantly fallen in love with the minds of these men, such is the positivity of the experience. I shall listen against and again.
One of the most profound conversations I heard in my entire 55 years of living. A tour de force of deep "soul and heart" thinkers who expose the fictional layers of reality and reveal the ever-present truth of who truly are. Just purchased Rupert's up-and-coming book and subscribed to Bernardo's content online. Thanks for the multiple paradigm shifts you sparked and the beautiful pointers which put me in a space of pure peace and joy. We are blessed. Love you both so very much.
@@spiraldynamics6008 I'd say recognizing that you are conscious requires the minimum amount of belief, since everything else seems to appear in it and build on top of that fact of consciousness. Did you ever experience anything outside consciousness? Or is that more of a belief than just the simple observation of the fact of consciousness? A brain existing prior to a consciousness requires more assumption and belief than a brain simply appearing in consciousness directly.
Ciao Rupert and Bernardo! I just want to say that I completely agree with Rupert when he says that Bernardo has a specific purpose: conveying this message in a scientific and rational way allows those with a background like mine to "feel" it more deeply! I don't know how to put it, but it's as if you two allow me to see the same "object" from two different perspectives, and now I see it in its entirety! Thank you
I can confidently say today that I have conquered the world. My spiritual journey over the past 5 years has finally led me to this video. There truly are no coincidences in life, yes seek and ye shall find. Keep knocking, and it shall be opened to you. I've experienced the truthfulness of these lines in my life. Thank you, universe, for being with me thus far. Indeed, there are answers - you just need to dig a little further. This video is worth more than all that I have. Hopefully, you can find satisfaction in knowing how I, all the way from Nigeria and many others here from around the world, have been affected by this video. Thank you, thank you, and thank you very much indeed.
Growing up in a Native American family, I got the biggest shock of my life when I went off to the university. It was my first time away from home. After a while, I realized that the people around me did not see their friends and relatives as part of themselves. People regarded themselves as separate entities from their family, friends, their environment. That was entirely foreign to me, unthinkable.
@The Buddhist Baptist just a clarification- the concept of hyper individuality is what was foreign to them. They didn’t mention or allude to people being foreign to them 🤍
@shivadasaYou way over-thought it n over‐shot it. I've gotten outa the groove- and feel less like my very own self- uncomfortable n unhealthy; other times I've felt very much connected to being my true authentic self. It's all about what I'm consuming. For whatever time period. And habits n routines. Healthy vs unhealthy. Natural vs unnatural. It's actually all very simple- and very simple to understand.
There are no words to express the profound understanding and pure love this video provides. In my 2 years on this metaphysical journey, this video is the one video I would share with anyone on a similar journey. Covers every base!
Fantastic. I have never seen this moderator before. I SO appreciate the questions he asks...it's as if he knows when I am confused and asks Rupert and Bernardo for clarification. So many seemingly disparate threads pulled together. Thank you!!
I had the same whirlpool analogy come to mind some 20 years ago when I realised I couldn’t really separate myself from the universe, that I had no edges but a definite centre….people thought I was losing my sanity when I said that I knew I was fundamentally God experiencing herself within an image that was only a surface. I feel somewhat cursed and blessed to have this understanding within me but I’m glad I have company and more and more people are opening to questioning materialism.
Having read several of Rupert's books, and one of Bernardo's. This talk is the culmination, the unification of two equivalent approaches to the same universal fundaments. I am 57 now, and the suffering is what took me on a journey to understand and better accept myself, but also to understand the underlying universal truth. And all of that makes suffering less suffering, and meaningful. Thanks for this priceless conversation.
I listened to this many days ago and commented, yet I still can't get this conversation off my mind. It is so potentially transformational. Deep gratitude to you for intelligently hosting and to these two men who engage in the discussion of this most important of topics.
@@liamnewsom8583 Red Herring, I am here to point out alternatives or condemn practices of helping others. I am pointing out the obvious mistake one makes when stating "they helped me understand". No they didn't, they just told you what you wanted to hear. None of their claims are founded on verified knowledge so their claims can not contain wisdom that could enable our understanding.
@@nickolasgaspar9660 it's metaphysics, my man. Literally all of it is what you want to hear. Everything anyone will ever tell you is what they want you to hear. We're on a rock in a universe we know fundamentally nothing about. All we have are mechanics. The math checks out for either or option here. They're just expressing an idea that's been around for centuries. You can be a mopy little negative human all you want, but you're still just playing the role you want to portray. The point to all of this talk and these ideas are to stop taking life so seriously. If you can ever manage that, then you might find some peace. People might be able to come together. The world might drop a little stress. But go off I guess.
Have never heard any of Bernardo's opinions before. Can honestly say his eloquence and descriptions of the nature of reality are beautifully explained and understandable.
He’s FANTASTIC. From the hundreds, if not thousands of intellectuals/academics/philosophers/mystics I’ve listened to, he’s seriously one of the most brilliant. He’s such a deep thinker. Check out some of his most popular videos on his channel, his interview with Curt Jaimungal, and his books.
Rupert Spira is so cool because he talks about "The human experience of reality." Which is sure different than talking about "The truth of reality." He's never goofy or "mystical" in the bad sense. But definitely mystical in the good sense when he goes into "just awareness/consciousness/that-which-knows" and then "the objects of awareness/consciousness/that-which-knows". It's really such a crisp and clean and clear and contemporary way of talking about it. Definitely terrific to hear Bernardo Kastrup articulate and discuss it with good questions from the mod.
What Rupert and Bernardo are saying here is amazing and they have expressed their ideas in many other videos, but it is Simon who made them express their ideas on the most important things in one video. Big thanks to all of you.
1:21:59 Bernardo : "The key is that it is not about you ... it is what nature wants to do through you or learn through you". I hear his words as speaking from my experience in deep suffering and depression. This is exactly what I have to bring to this world and share, without any form of victimhood. It just is what it is for me these years. I do not expect 'my state of being' depressed to change. I accept it. I do not enjoy it, nor do I wallow in it. It is possible that this will change. I do not seek the change though, because I have learned that that brings me deeper in it. I just live it and know that it somehow serves the purpose of life. I am not searching for 'an answer' because I know that that answer is already here for me. People who avoid the dept of suffering miss out of life itself. I see life as miraculous and know that I am 'carried and loved' in the consciousness/oneness/God that we are. And that does not contradict that the suffering is of value. I am grateful to be in this understanding. It does make the suffering able to bear. I am the moth and the flame, for now., for the sake of the dance.
The good news is God cares about his planetary sons and daughters. And a personal relationship with God, helps uplift us humans from our mortal challenges to a higher being of purpose and peace.
No, you are the flame, the moth is the illusion called ego, which you will see through once you awaken into the dream called life that Bernardo mentions. As Rupert asks Bernardo to close his eyes and report what he experiences without referring to his past he answers: a field of awareness. It is there all the time, has been there all the time. Consciousness. THAT is what you are, not the experiences that appear in it. Exactly the same as in any other dream.
@@GeertMeertens consciousness void of experiences is flightless of growth. To stay with your analogy of the moth. Therefore, experiences are real, because personal consciousness learns from the influence of experiences.
There is nothing accidental in bringing the three of you together for this conversation. On an individual basis, the experience of listening to this conversation would not be as rich and satisfying. I have a spiritual teacher Sally Gray. In her unlearning portal, she has a link to a TH-cam video by Rupert Spira. As I followed the "rabbit trail", it led me to this conversation. So much understanding came into my awareness by listening to all 2.5 hours, I will come back again and again. Thanks to each of you for making your conversation public so it can expand into our own individual understanding.
I can't help but noticing the glows that were emanating from Rupert. Bernardo was as brilliant as he always is. Simon, you were amazing in your own way...Like Rupert said - "don't exclude yourself form this".
One of the greatest discussions I've ever watched! I've been approaching life from the non-dual perspective for awhile now, but especially Bernardo's insights on death were revolutionary. I never actually thought about it, but there is evidence that suggests that the reduction of brain activity correlates with deeper and richer experience. This is a wonderful insight.
Excellent - this is why mediation can be very useful. Methinks, that God has to be central - in meditation - for the eternal experience and the Divine Presence, now.
Simon’s very evident enjoyment of the discussion between these two inspired gentlemen and his insightful questions added to a really profound presentation. Thank you all!
At 1:01:40 minutes Bernardo speaks of his suffering. He brings it with such beauty, so genuine, and then Rupert brings it ... ohhh the GRACE ... the acknowledgment of God hearing and seeing us ... deeply, profoundly touched ... thank you ... thank you ... thank you ...
Great talk by the two leading speakers on idealism and non-dualism. Love the point at 22mins that our eyes wouldn’t be able to handle actual perception. Same Vedanta point from Bhagavad Gita when Arjuna asks for special vision to see reality and then confessing he can’t bear the vision as a limited self in chapter 11. Wonderful point
46:40 The hard (heart) problem explained in a way that answered it by itself. That, I call "Original Sin". How naively we have believed an idea and ignored the most obvious thing which is our own simple experiencing. I think the church and other religions' dictatorship and nonesence they came up with, made us trust the science which was itself inflicted. We looked everywhere that offered alittle nicer horizon except our own direct experience. We thought "some one out there knows better than me" because they are more educated, talented, wiser or more angelic . We thought " I am not worthy to know what is what. I am just a sinfull, small, etc... How easy is to go down the hell because of our innate power to make illusion. And I am happy that I saw the emperor is naked. lovely, beautiful, amazing conversation. Rupert, Bernardo and Simon love you all❤
@@nickolasgaspar9660 Interesting. What points in particular you feel are “telling people what they want to hear”? What evidence and observations do you feel contradict Bernardo’s claims? I am curious. 🤔 Thanks. 🙂
Agree with other comments that this is the best conversation I’ve heard in my 61 years. A sense of the universe dancing the truth both literally and figuratively through me. Among other things I support people therapeutically with Psychedelic integration and the discussion at the end of the interview about what is going on in these experiences have expanded my capacity in supporting the people I work with. Such a powerful and beautiful example of how following the call to truth yields fruits and benefits for the good of all.
Bernardo is in fact a jnani, who's penetrating into knowledge mostly without having been instructed, solely due to his own inquiry and analysis. His insight as of someone who is part of the academia and science is really mind-blowing. Up until few days ago when I started going through his interviews I thought Donald Hoffman was the most eloquent proto-transcendental philosopher in science. And look, we have a young fellow here, who's not only abstractly thinking, he is actually pretty concrete and applies this knowledge in his life! (EDIT: Note - not an actual jnani in a sense of jivanmukti, but a jnani, who is well on his way to mature into one. This with caveat, that he entirely shuts down the tendencies and attempts to create a mental map of reality. It CAN'T BE DONE and is a futile thing to strive for. philosophy will take one to the sravana and manana stages, but after that all has to drop - as a result of the final understanding)
I have had to listen to this discussion a number of times. I’m not sure exactly why. I’m not a stupid person. Some of the ideas are new to me; for instance, the definition and characteristic of materialism. I have only been familiar with the colloquial meaning of it. Regardless, there’s some beauty in this discussion that I have come to enjoy and appreciate. I just wanted to take the opportunity to say thank you for having these two gentlemen on. It was magnificent!
Several years ago--after watching one of Bernardo's many fascinating videos--I was moved to suggest to him as a comment that if he was not yet familiar with Rupert Spira, I was quite sure he would strongly resonate to him. He replied that this was the second time that he had received this suggestion and that he intended to act upon it. In partaking of this current very nourishing and heart-warming presentation, I feel enormous sympathetic joy in recognizing that my small match-making nudge may have contributed to the happiness that their subsequent friendship has wrought. Thanks and many blessings to you, Simon, for so skillfully hosting and sharing this most delightful and loving banquet.,
I usually don't comment on videos but it's been an absolute joy to listen to these 3 men talking (for the second time 🙂) Rupert, I love your clarity, depth, and kindness. Simon, I love your humility and genuine smile. And Bernardo, I love your intellectual explanations (I am one of those intellectually driven people and I very much appreciate the perspective you bring into the mix!) Thank you guys, for the extremely important work that you do! I look forward to another one of these!
I love this conversation so much. I've listened to hundreds of Rupert's talks over the years, and learned so much. I only recently discovered Bernardo's work via an interview which also introduced me to the amazing work of Lex Fridman. There's a richness and fullness and depth to this conversation I appreciate so much.
“The finite mind is a cluster or localisation of thinking and perceiving. As such it is not problematic, it is simply the mean through which the universe perceives itself, in the form we perceive it. The finite mind is not synonymous with the separate self or the ego. The ego is the belief that the finite mind defines who we are. They are 2 different things.” So much clarity in a few sentences 🚀🤩❤️
Bernard - you're reaching the audience you mentioned. I'm one of those intellectuals, and a senior manager at a large corporate. You've reached me and convinced my intellectual bouncer that people like Rupert are well worth listening to. Keep going!
@@nealdee1755 yup, atheist materialist here. Or I was until a few weeks ago. Now i'm finding myself on a bit of a spiritual journey. I still really dislike that word though, due to how negatively I (and the majority) view it.
@@nealdee1755 yeah, not keen on yoga either, since that word has been hijacked by girls in tight pants 😆. I've tried LSD actually, a couple of times - but it was probably 15yrs ago now. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Have been toying with the idea of doing again. Am very interested in 5meoDMT, but i'm not sure I can source any - I don't really have those types of contacts anymore 😄. I don't even know if there is any in my country - i'm not in the US.
Magical thinking is not limited to religious believers. Anyone with epistemic or existential anxieties will subscribe to a death denying ideology. TO be an atheist doesn't mean you are rational.
@@nealdee1755 as I said to MP , being an atheist doesn't mean you are rational. We are all acceptable to comforting ideas and death denying ideologies.
After many years of books, videos, meetings, words, words words...these two remain the ones that worth my time and attention…coherence and intellectual honesty are the key. Thank you Simon for bring them together and share it with us!
I greatly appreciate the openness with which they discuss suffering, especially Bernardo. I think there is this impression that when a person fully understands non duality, they are suddenly freed from any sort of suffering, and I think it’s this impression that causes many to feel like they don’t “get it” because they still carry that suffering, or to put it differently, they still have to work through it. It reminds of something Thomas Keating once said: “God is not necessarily going to take away all our difficulties. He does something much more wonderful, which is to join us in them.”
Stunning conversation I can’t believe I get to listen to these great minds I feel so lucky! Bernardo’s impeccable logical case for “beyond materialism” is the gift Ive waited for all these years as an academic, along with Rupert Spiras “become the screen”
This conversation has made me very emotional. Thank you in ways I cannot describe, but you understand. The quality and clarity of insight transferred through the sound of your voices, is just phenomenal. Thank you thank you and please spread this receipt through which you are serving us the Truth. 🙏🏼❤️
What a beautiful conversation. I'm into this for 20 years now and this is the one video I would share with anyone interested in the nature of truth and reality. Rupert and Bernado match perfectly with different perspectives of the same source. I would love to see this continued. Thank you!
The host's honest naivety about the topics (shared by myself also to a much higher degree), and so asking foundational questions that experts often gloss over, is very highly valued, and acvery underrated necessity for any learning.
Absolutely fantastic. The interviewer is not great, as it's clear his understanding is intellectual not experiential, but despite that this interview is simply wonderful.
What an insightful discussion! So beautifully presented and moderated. I loved Rupert Spira's dream metaphor - "Mary falls asleep in London and dreams as Jane in the streets of Paris". The metaphor elaborated; truly unlocked my understanding and things looked more clearer and everything for a moment stood so obvious!! Thanks to Simon, Bernardo and Rupert! 👍
What is it to hold the dance and accept the dance and to dance the dance with full engagement of being and becoming with bodies that are willing to risk this dance of pain and suffering, charity and compassion, absurdity and poignancy, the mundane and the numinous, grief and grace. This dance is what we are. We can play Rupert and Bernardos idealised metaphysical game when we don't have our bodies any more............until that time let the dance be danced💚
Great chance to listen two of the greatest nondualists thinkers and philosophers. I’ve been following both for 1 year. Great meeting, thank you! Regards from Portugal.
Amazing discussion. I can’t say I understood absolutely everything but boy was it interesting, challenging and extraordinary. Both guests were excellent but Bernardo in particular explained things in a way that was simply mind blowing! Please do this again and thank you.
Brilliant !! To have both Rupert and Bernardo together in such an open well directed conversation is a gift to us all. Listening and reading Rupert's teachings over the last few years as really helped me make sense of my lived experience ( 30 year search ) and Bernardo through his books and interviews has allowed my intellect finally to be it one with my experience and understanding . This interview has brought it together in such a beautiful way ... Thanks to the three of you for such a gift !
I am so beyond grateful for Bernardo blast open of the materialist paradigm that has left us stuck - a proof I’ve waited for my entire life. Thank you all enormously!
Truly one if the most informative, heartfelt and clarifying conversations I’ve listened to on the subject of non-duality and the self. Simon did a masterful job of moderating the discussion between two gems of this world. Thanks to all three!
This has been by far the most helpful and inspiring post since long. It really helped me to transcend the remaining suffering i cant get rid of, similar to bernado.
What is amazing and beautiful is that Rupert Spira comes at this existential quest through the heart and Bernardo Kastrup comes at it through the intellect, and, lo and behold (!), they end up in the same place totally resonating with each other. It is a blessing to be witness to this dialogue/trialogue. Hopefully, it can have some fundamental pragmatic application and impact in the world! We are in a state of huge need for this way of approaching existence and the understanding of reality...
Perfect combination of deep experiential understanding with art by words and sharp intellectual arguments for them who approach this topic with scientific point of view. I enjoyed a lot of this conversation. Maybe someday there will be book authored together by Rupert and Bernando. :)
This was such a joy to listen to. I really resonated with what Rupert said about quiet courage to stay with truth at 2:24:42. Beautifully said. And hearing conversations like this give me the courage to remain on this path
Kudos to all three participants in this video for this insightful and thought-provoking discussion. Admittedly, I am nitpicking, but Bernardo’s explanation around 35:50 that “Consciousness is that whose excitation is experience” seems to be logically deficient. Since there is never a time when experience ceases to exist, and since experience is an excitation of Consciousness in Bernardo’s formulation, it follows logically that there is never a time when excitation of Consciousness ceases. Thus, Consciousness can never exist without excitation. This implies that Consciousness, in Bernardo’s formulation, has a limitation, i.e., the inability to exist without excitation. However, this cannot be since Consciousness is limit-free. Perhaps, this deficiency can be overcome by amending Bernardo’s formulation as “Consciousness is that whose *apparent* excitation is *objective* experience”. The implication of this proposed reformulation is that Consciousness, as our true nature, is excitation-free and as such is free to exist with excitation, without excitation, with and without excitation, or neither with excitation nor without excitation.
@@doublej7257 Seems to me that “trying to understand enlightenment” can only be the preoccupation of those who believe that, without enlightenment, they do not exist as what they already are.
@@doublej7257 -"Enlightenment does not come about by trying to understand it with the mind" -......that explains why people will believe in anything lol.
Transformative conversation- My hope is all of us who respond to the deep truths articulated by Kastrup and Spira take this way of perceiving back into the worlds we inhabit and allow it to permeate the way we interconnect with other beings
Bernardo and Rupert performed as expected, being juggernauts of mind and thought. But what astounded me was the moderator-he administered the finest interview between these two men that I have witnessed. So often the moderator is either a sycophant or an intransigent but rarely a truth revealer by virtue of the questions they ask, the way they listen and their intuitive timing. He nailed it all. 👍
well this topic isn't that demanding. What all three of them had to do was to express their comforting beliefs on how they would like reality to be. Such made up beliefs don't demand any Academic knowledge or rigorous facts. Any opinion that can ease the existential and epistemic anxieties of others is welcomed without a second thought...
Wow, what a beautiful and fruitful conversation. This is such a perfect example of "the whole exceeds the sum of its parts", which is really saying something given the quality of each of these individuals.
Such a beautiful, deep, intelligent and inspiring conversation. Thank you for leading the way. The more I live this understanding the happier I am and the more joy and love flows through me. And the more obvious it feel that this is the truth of what we are.
Wow, what a phenomenal conversation! Having recently had this profound non-dual realization myself, I have been attempting to put it into the proper context of how to think and live in the world. This really helped me sort out how the individual can thrive while realizing that it is not actually a separate self. I am familiar with Rupert's work but had not listened to Bernardo before this. His passion for how we can find rich purpose in surrendering to what nature wants to do through us is so beautiful to hear. I will have to listen to this again!
Wonderful conversation, superbly moderated. Thank You. There is something about this Consciousness - Matter dichotomy that seems to me to reflect the fundamentally inherent aspect of the human psyche that needs to 'split' (in the psychodynamic meaning of the term). A desire to create 'either/or' positions of perceived stability. What resonated for me was hearing Dr Iain McGilchrist posit his sense that matter seemed most likely a phase of consciousness. (analogous to the phases of water) For me this resonates with my understanding of non-duality, : - neither dualism nor monism. ('both/and' rather than 'either/or') It seems to me that "Everything is made" not 'either' of Consciousness 'or' Matter, but 'both' Consciousness 'and' Matter as different phases of the same fundamental '.........?'
I was walking my dogs a couple of years ago... Pondering. I had the thought that everything and we were gods dream... To hear Rupert say those words when he was 7 resonated hard❤️
Rupert and Bernardo are a beautiful collab! Ruperts minimalistic use of his words touch one very very deeply and Bernardo is so humble and is able to take complex concepts and turns it into something very easy to understand. This minimalistic and easy understandable responses are intelligence not creating a spiral of complexity like our culture seems to think. Ruperts analogies are so vivid in general but the moth-flame-analogy… puh that hit different🙏
As a 70+ year oldie, what a blessing to have lived long enough to witness this. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I am also 70+ and I found this as remarkable. Experience can lead to wisdom and ultimately understanding impossible to those younger.
I'm 72. Ditto.
I cherish this event and am so grateful to have it available for many re-experiencings moving forward. Thank you all.
As a 43-year-old, I am excited about all that lies ahead in terms of the science of mind and where that will lead to in terms of the development of new skillful means to accelerate and ease access to the spiritual path and lead to many more people becoming enlightened than currently are. Psychedelics and neurotechnology will play a vital role.
I am almost 70 and I am so happy to find the teachings of Rupert, Bernardo and Francis Lucille before the end of this body mind carriage.
I’m trained as a neuroscientist and this was exactly what I needed to hear. What a fantastically complimentary pair Rupert and Bernardo are. Exquisite. Thank you so much.
could not have put it better spot on
@@markcallaghan8389 opppp
❤❤❤
Oh my goodness. I just found gold. I don't know how or why this video was suggested to me but I've just finished it after taking about three days to listen. (Each day a little bit whilst drinking my coffee and looking at the sky and the trees out of my bedroom window.) l've just finished it and I feel elevated and happy. I am thrilled to have been party to such a video and would have never imagined I'd ever understand much at all of the content (given such a title.) But these three men have spoken with such clarity, simplicity and elegance that I have come away understanding more than I could have possibly imagined. And what a release it feels like to remember that we are so much more than the physicality of our experience, this is truly uplifting and feels so liberating when navigating the challenges life presents. It's been a sheer delight accessing this video and I feel like I've instantly fallen in love with the minds of these men, such is the positivity of the experience. I shall listen against and again.
One of the most profound conversations I heard in my entire 55 years of living. A tour de force of deep "soul and heart" thinkers who expose the fictional layers of reality and reveal the ever-present truth of who truly are. Just purchased Rupert's up-and-coming book and subscribed to Bernardo's content online. Thanks for the multiple paradigm shifts you sparked and the beautiful pointers which put me in a space of pure peace and joy. We are blessed. Love you both so very much.
Is the consciousness produced by the brain? This is the ultimate question nobody answered...
@@spiraldynamics6008 More like the brain is created by consciousness
@@Paakku97 ssD
@@Paakku97 nobody know this is just a belief
@@spiraldynamics6008 I'd say recognizing that you are conscious requires the minimum amount of belief, since everything else seems to appear in it and build on top of that fact of consciousness.
Did you ever experience anything outside consciousness? Or is that more of a belief than just the simple observation of the fact of consciousness? A brain existing prior to a consciousness requires more assumption and belief than a brain simply appearing in consciousness directly.
Ciao Rupert and Bernardo! I just want to say that I completely agree with Rupert when he says that Bernardo has a specific purpose: conveying this message in a scientific and rational way allows those with a background like mine to "feel" it more deeply! I don't know how to put it, but it's as if you two allow me to see the same "object" from two different perspectives, and now I see it in its entirety! Thank you
I can confidently say today that I have conquered the world. My spiritual journey over the past 5 years has finally led me to this video. There truly are no coincidences in life, yes seek and ye shall find. Keep knocking, and it shall be opened to you. I've experienced the truthfulness of these lines in my life. Thank you, universe, for being with me thus far. Indeed, there are answers - you just need to dig a little further.
This video is worth more than all that I have.
Hopefully, you can find satisfaction in knowing how I, all the way from Nigeria and many others here from around the world, have been affected by this video. Thank you, thank you, and thank you very much indeed.
Rupert's happiness is evident on his face - fresh and beautiful!
Growing up in a Native American family, I got the biggest shock of my life when I went off to the university. It was my first time away from home. After a while, I realized that the people around me did not see their friends and relatives as part of themselves. People regarded themselves as separate entities from their family, friends, their environment. That was entirely foreign to me, unthinkable.
wow, thank you for sharing this!
@The Buddhist Baptist just a clarification- the concept of hyper individuality is what was foreign to them. They didn’t mention or allude to people being foreign to them 🤍
Yes, especially seeing as North America is hyper individualistic as a society.
@shivadasaYou way over-thought it n over‐shot it.
I've gotten outa the groove- and feel less like my very own self- uncomfortable n unhealthy; other times I've felt very much connected to being my true authentic self.
It's all about what I'm consuming. For whatever time period. And habits n routines. Healthy vs unhealthy. Natural vs unnatural.
It's actually all very simple- and very simple to understand.
The choice of words really helps. Rupert and Bernardo compliment each other so well and Simon asks perfect questions to help people understand.
Thank you
There are no words to express the profound understanding and pure love this video provides. In my 2 years on this metaphysical journey, this video is the one video I would share with anyone on a similar journey. Covers every base!
Human are pattern seeking animals....we tend to see meaningful patterns even when they are totally absent
Fantastic. I have never seen this moderator before. I SO appreciate the questions he asks...it's as if he knows when I am confused and asks Rupert and Bernardo for clarification. So many seemingly disparate threads pulled together. Thank you!!
I so agree
I had the same whirlpool analogy come to mind some 20 years ago when I realised I couldn’t really separate myself from the universe, that I had no edges but a definite centre….people thought I was losing my sanity when I said that I knew I was fundamentally God experiencing herself within an image that was only a surface. I feel somewhat cursed and blessed to have this understanding within me but I’m glad I have company and more and more people are opening to questioning materialism.
Thank you for your experience. Grace.
What brought on this experience?
this is an unescapable intuition yep!
Bless you!!!
@championchap " “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.”"
- Richard Feynman...
Having read several of Rupert's books, and one of Bernardo's. This talk is the culmination, the unification of two equivalent approaches to the same universal fundaments.
I am 57 now, and the suffering is what took me on a journey to understand and better accept myself, but also to understand the underlying universal truth. And all of that makes suffering less suffering, and meaningful.
Thanks for this priceless conversation.
I listened to this many days ago and commented, yet I still can't get this conversation off my mind. It is so potentially transformational. Deep gratitude to you for intelligently hosting and to these two men who engage in the discussion of this most important of topics.
these two big boys helped me understand, couldnt done it without the other, needed them both. Absolute legends.
Totally
they just told you what you wanted to hear.. Easing people's existential and epistemic anxieties is how they make their living.
@@nickolasgaspar9660 lol what's your alternative then, you act as if helping others and easing anxiety is a bad thing
@@liamnewsom8583 Red Herring, I am here to point out alternatives or condemn practices of helping others.
I am pointing out the obvious mistake one makes when stating "they helped me understand". No they didn't, they just told you what you wanted to hear. None of their claims are founded on verified knowledge so their claims can not contain wisdom that could enable our understanding.
@@nickolasgaspar9660 it's metaphysics, my man. Literally all of it is what you want to hear. Everything anyone will ever tell you is what they want you to hear. We're on a rock in a universe we know fundamentally nothing about. All we have are mechanics. The math checks out for either or option here. They're just expressing an idea that's been around for centuries. You can be a mopy little negative human all you want, but you're still just playing the role you want to portray. The point to all of this talk and these ideas are to stop taking life so seriously. If you can ever manage that, then you might find some peace. People might be able to come together. The world might drop a little stress. But go off I guess.
Have never heard any of Bernardo's opinions before. Can honestly say his eloquence and descriptions of the nature of reality are beautifully explained and understandable.
If you’re interested in analytical philosophy there’s a 4hr podcast of Bernardo at a YT channel called Theories of everything
If you are interested of scientific point of view of this topic I really recommended Bernando's books. He's brilliant in scientific argumentation.
He’s FANTASTIC. From the hundreds, if not thousands of intellectuals/academics/philosophers/mystics I’ve listened to, he’s seriously one of the most brilliant. He’s such a deep thinker.
Check out some of his most popular videos on his channel, his interview with Curt Jaimungal, and his books.
A modern take on idealism. His phd thesis is online. The comission wasn't persuaded but had no arguments... lol... Brilliant person!
I've heard Bernardo's discussions with Jeffery Mishlove on the New Thinking Allowed youtube channel.
This is one of the greatest conversations I've ever heard. ❤
Try learning Basic Logic and How we should use its rules in our reasoning and your opinion about this conversation will change.
@@nickolasgaspar9660 you don't understand. Simple as.
@@wolflarsen3447 So two new agers try to sell books to irrational, ignorant and gullible individuals....and Its me who doesn't understand? lol ok
@@nickolasgaspar9660 Maybe one day you will understand .
@@wolflarsen3447 Υοu sound like a christian saying "maybe when you die you will see I am right"?
Rupert Spira is so cool because he talks about "The human experience of reality." Which is sure different than talking about "The truth of reality." He's never goofy or "mystical" in the bad sense. But definitely mystical in the good sense when he goes into "just awareness/consciousness/that-which-knows" and then "the objects of awareness/consciousness/that-which-knows". It's really such a crisp and clean and clear and contemporary way of talking about it. Definitely terrific to hear Bernardo Kastrup articulate and discuss it with good questions from the mod.
Simon, you did an amazing job moderating this conversation 👏
Thank you :)
Please leave this video up for my future children to see.
What Rupert and Bernardo are saying here is amazing and they have expressed their ideas in many other videos, but it is Simon who made them express their ideas on the most important things in one video. Big thanks to all of you.
Its not just amazing......its way to good to be true and of course unfalsifiable.
Thank you :)
1:21:59 Bernardo : "The key is that it is not about you ... it is what nature wants to do through you or learn through you". I hear his words as speaking from my experience in deep suffering and depression. This is exactly what I have to bring to this world and share, without any form of victimhood. It just is what it is for me these years. I do not expect 'my state of being' depressed to change. I accept it. I do not enjoy it, nor do I wallow in it. It is possible that this will change. I do not seek the change though, because I have learned that that brings me deeper in it. I just live it and know that it somehow serves the purpose of life. I am not searching for 'an answer' because I know that that answer is already here for me. People who avoid the dept of suffering miss out of life itself. I see life as miraculous and know that I am 'carried and loved' in the consciousness/oneness/God that we are. And that does not contradict that the suffering is of value. I am grateful to be in this understanding. It does make the suffering able to bear. I am the moth and the flame, for now., for the sake of the dance.
The good news is God cares about his planetary sons and daughters. And a personal relationship with God, helps uplift us humans from our mortal challenges to a higher being of purpose and peace.
No, you are the flame, the moth is the illusion called ego, which you will see through once you awaken into the dream called life that Bernardo mentions. As Rupert asks Bernardo to close his eyes and report what he experiences without referring to his past he answers: a field of awareness. It is there all the time, has been there all the time. Consciousness. THAT is what you are, not the experiences that appear in it. Exactly the same as in any other dream.
@@GeertMeertens consciousness void of experiences is flightless of growth. To stay with your analogy of the moth.
Therefore, experiences are real, because personal consciousness learns from the influence of experiences.
i don't think there has ever been a more important conversation.
There is nothing accidental in bringing the three of you together for this conversation. On an individual basis, the experience of listening to this conversation would not be as rich and satisfying. I have a spiritual teacher Sally Gray. In her unlearning portal, she has a link to a TH-cam video by Rupert Spira. As I followed the "rabbit trail", it led me to this conversation. So much understanding came into my awareness by listening to all 2.5 hours, I will come back again and again. Thanks to each of you for making your conversation public so it can expand into our own individual understanding.
The Good, The True and The Beautiful in one single conversation thank you 🙏
I can't help but noticing the glows that were emanating from Rupert. Bernardo was as brilliant as he always is.
Simon, you were amazing in your own way...Like Rupert said - "don't exclude yourself form this".
One of the greatest discussions I've ever watched! I've been approaching life from the non-dual perspective for awhile now, but especially Bernardo's insights on death were revolutionary. I never actually thought about it, but there is evidence that suggests that the reduction of brain activity correlates with deeper and richer experience. This is a wonderful insight.
Excellent - this is why mediation can be very useful.
Methinks, that God has to be central - in meditation - for the eternal experience and the Divine Presence, now.
Simon’s very evident enjoyment of the discussion between these two inspired gentlemen and his insightful questions added to a really profound presentation. Thank you all!
I could hear this in an endless loop. Every time I hear this .. I want to hear it again and again. Thank you so much to all of you 🙏🏽 blissful
r u from India btw
At 1:01:40 minutes Bernardo speaks of his suffering. He brings it with such beauty, so genuine, and then Rupert brings it ... ohhh the GRACE ... the acknowledgment of God hearing and seeing us ... deeply, profoundly touched ... thank you ... thank you ... thank you ...
Thank you both Benade & Rupert for teaching the world. How to stop suffering and be free and have to look in the self as the awareness. Keep it up. 💯
Enlightening!!!!! Thank you
Great talk by the two leading speakers on idealism and non-dualism. Love the point at 22mins that our eyes wouldn’t be able to handle actual perception. Same Vedanta point from Bhagavad Gita when Arjuna asks for special vision to see reality and then confessing he can’t bear the vision as a limited self in chapter 11. Wonderful point
. And Rupert’s dream illustration at 31mins is all we need to know about universal consciousness
I remembered the same Vedanta point in Chapter 11. Thank you for putting the observation here.
46:40 The hard (heart) problem explained in a way that answered it by itself. That, I call "Original Sin". How naively we have believed an idea and ignored the most obvious thing which is our own simple experiencing.
I think the church and other religions' dictatorship and nonesence they came up with, made us trust the science which was itself inflicted. We looked everywhere that offered alittle nicer horizon except our own direct experience. We thought "some one out there knows better than me" because they are more educated, talented, wiser or more angelic . We thought " I am not worthy to know what is what. I am just a sinfull, small, etc...
How easy is to go down the hell because of our innate power to make illusion. And I am happy that I saw the emperor is naked.
lovely, beautiful, amazing conversation. Rupert, Bernardo and Simon love you all❤
Currently reading Kastrup’s book and practicing Rupert’s self enquiry teachings 🙏🏽 Thank you both ♥️
he knows how to sell books....just tell them what they want to hear.
@@nickolasgaspar9660 you seem doubtful
@@itssameLuigi do you prefer gullible people?
@@nickolasgaspar9660 may I ask why you felt this comment was necessary? Honest question, not trying to be an as*
@@nickolasgaspar9660 Interesting.
What points in particular you feel are “telling people what they want to hear”? What evidence and observations do you feel contradict Bernardo’s claims?
I am curious. 🤔
Thanks. 🙂
Agree with other comments that this is the best conversation I’ve heard in my 61 years. A sense of the universe dancing the truth both literally and figuratively through me. Among other things I support people therapeutically with Psychedelic integration and the discussion at the end of the interview about what is going on in these experiences have expanded my capacity in supporting the people I work with. Such a powerful and beautiful example of how following the call to truth yields fruits and benefits for the good of all.
Bernardo is in fact a jnani, who's penetrating into knowledge mostly without having been instructed, solely due to his own inquiry and analysis. His insight as of someone who is part of the academia and science is really mind-blowing. Up until few days ago when I started going through his interviews I thought Donald Hoffman was the most eloquent proto-transcendental philosopher in science. And look, we have a young fellow here, who's not only abstractly thinking, he is actually pretty concrete and applies this knowledge in his life! (EDIT: Note - not an actual jnani in a sense of jivanmukti, but a jnani, who is well on his way to mature into one. This with caveat, that he entirely shuts down the tendencies and attempts to create a mental map of reality. It CAN'T BE DONE and is a futile thing to strive for. philosophy will take one to the sravana and manana stages, but after that all has to drop - as a result of the final understanding)
I have had to listen to this discussion a number of times. I’m not sure exactly why. I’m not a stupid person. Some of the ideas are new to me; for instance, the definition and characteristic of materialism. I have only been familiar with the colloquial meaning of it. Regardless, there’s some beauty in this discussion that I have come to enjoy and appreciate. I just wanted to take the opportunity to say thank you for having these two gentlemen on. It was magnificent!
These two gentlemen are so nice to each other. Inspirational for sure.
Magnificent conversation orchestrated! 👌
Several years ago--after watching one of Bernardo's many fascinating videos--I was moved to suggest to him as a comment that if he was not yet familiar with Rupert Spira, I was quite sure he would strongly resonate to him. He replied that this was the second time that he had received this suggestion and that he intended to act upon it. In partaking of this current very nourishing and heart-warming presentation, I feel enormous sympathetic joy in recognizing that my small match-making nudge may have contributed to the happiness that their subsequent friendship has wrought. Thanks and many blessings to you, Simon, for so skillfully hosting and sharing this most delightful and loving banquet.,
This is monumental, we are all greatly privileged to witness this historical moment. This cannot be taken for granted.
I usually don't comment on videos but it's been an absolute joy to listen to these 3 men talking (for the second time 🙂) Rupert, I love your clarity, depth, and kindness. Simon, I love your humility and genuine smile. And Bernardo, I love your intellectual explanations (I am one of those intellectually driven people and I very much appreciate the perspective you bring into the mix!) Thank you guys, for the extremely important work that you do! I look forward to another one of these!
Nice.
I love this conversation so much. I've listened to hundreds of Rupert's talks over the years, and learned so much. I only recently discovered Bernardo's work via an interview which also introduced me to the amazing work of Lex Fridman.
There's a richness and fullness and depth to this conversation I appreciate so much.
“The finite mind is a cluster or localisation of thinking and perceiving. As such it is not problematic, it is simply the mean through which the universe perceives itself, in the form we perceive it. The finite mind is not synonymous with the separate self or the ego. The ego is the belief that the finite mind defines who we are. They are 2 different things.” So much clarity in a few sentences 🚀🤩❤️
Yes....people need to believe their existence has a meaning from a cosmic aspect.
Bernard - you're reaching the audience you mentioned. I'm one of those intellectuals, and a senior manager at a large corporate. You've reached me and convinced my intellectual bouncer that people like Rupert are well worth listening to. Keep going!
@@nealdee1755 yup, atheist materialist here. Or I was until a few weeks ago. Now i'm finding myself on a bit of a spiritual journey. I still really dislike that word though, due to how negatively I (and the majority) view it.
@@nealdee1755 yeah, not keen on yoga either, since that word has been hijacked by girls in tight pants 😆. I've tried LSD actually, a couple of times - but it was probably 15yrs ago now. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Have been toying with the idea of doing again. Am very interested in 5meoDMT, but i'm not sure I can source any - I don't really have those types of contacts anymore 😄. I don't even know if there is any in my country - i'm not in the US.
@@mp9810 Happy to read. You are ready to begin tasting the True Life
Magical thinking is not limited to religious believers. Anyone with epistemic or existential anxieties will subscribe to a death denying ideology. TO be an atheist doesn't mean you are rational.
@@nealdee1755 as I said to MP , being an atheist doesn't mean you are rational. We are all acceptable to comforting ideas and death denying ideologies.
After many years of books, videos, meetings, words, words words...these two remain the ones that worth my time and attention…coherence and intellectual honesty are the key. Thank you Simon for bring them together and share it with us!
I greatly appreciate the openness with which they discuss suffering, especially Bernardo. I think there is this impression that when a person fully understands non duality, they are suddenly freed from any sort of suffering, and I think it’s this impression that causes many to feel like they don’t “get it” because they still carry that suffering, or to put it differently, they still have to work through it. It reminds of something Thomas Keating once said: “God is not necessarily going to take away all our difficulties. He does something much more wonderful, which is to join us in them.”
Stunning conversation I can’t believe I get to listen to these great minds I feel so lucky! Bernardo’s impeccable logical case for “beyond materialism” is the gift Ive waited for all these years as an academic, along with Rupert Spiras “become the screen”
Thank you all so much, and a special thank you to Simon. This was just a great interview.
1:25:21 Its also giving up attachment to outcome which is by far one of the most menacing addictions.
This conversation has made me very emotional. Thank you in ways I cannot describe, but you understand.
The quality and clarity of insight transferred through the sound of your voices, is just phenomenal.
Thank you thank you and please spread this receipt through which you are serving us the Truth. 🙏🏼❤️
What a beautiful conversation. I'm into this for 20 years now and this is the one video I would share with anyone interested in the nature of truth and reality. Rupert and Bernado match perfectly with different perspectives of the same source. I would love to see this continued. Thank you!
The host's honest naivety about the topics (shared by myself also to a much higher degree), and so asking foundational questions that experts often gloss over, is very highly valued, and acvery underrated necessity for any learning.
I listen to this video multiple times and hear additional wisdom resonate each time. Thank you 🙏 .
Much love for all humanity and each one of us.
Absolutely fantastic. The interviewer is not great, as it's clear his understanding is intellectual not experiential, but despite that this interview is simply wonderful.
How brilliantly Rupert and Bernardo dovetail. As explained by Bernardo at the end. A true privilege to listen to, many thanks.
So thankful to the three of you gentlemen that you made happen this absolutely inspiring conversation!! ॐ ❤
What a splendid high-end debate, such three wonderfully inspired beings!
I am goosebumbed out and all over. This was absolute divine beauty. Wow.
What an insightful discussion! So beautifully presented and moderated. I loved Rupert Spira's dream metaphor - "Mary falls asleep in London and dreams as Jane in the streets of Paris". The metaphor elaborated; truly unlocked my understanding and things looked more clearer and everything for a moment stood so obvious!!
Thanks to Simon, Bernardo and Rupert! 👍
What is it to hold the dance and accept the dance and to dance the dance with full engagement of being and becoming with bodies that are willing to risk this dance of pain and suffering, charity and compassion, absurdity and poignancy, the mundane and the numinous, grief and grace.
This dance is what we are.
We can play Rupert and Bernardos idealised metaphysical game when we don't have our bodies any more............until that time let the dance be danced💚
Great chance to listen two of the greatest nondualists thinkers and philosophers. I’ve been following both for 1 year. Great meeting, thank you!
Regards from Portugal.
Amazing discussion. I can’t say I understood absolutely everything but boy was it interesting, challenging and extraordinary. Both guests were excellent but Bernardo in particular explained things in a way that was simply mind blowing! Please do this again and thank you.
Yes!!!!!! I have been waiting for this conversation for so long, I love both of your works!
Brilliant !! To have both Rupert and Bernardo together in such an open well directed conversation is a gift to us all. Listening and reading Rupert's teachings over the last few years as really helped me make sense of my lived experience ( 30 year search ) and Bernardo through his books and interviews has allowed my intellect finally to be it one with my experience and understanding . This interview has brought it together in such a beautiful way ... Thanks to the three of you for such a gift !
I am so beyond grateful for Bernardo blast open of the materialist paradigm that has left us stuck - a proof I’ve waited for my entire life. Thank you all enormously!
Enjoyed listening to you both today, Rupert and Bernado. Keep up the brilliant show. Swamy VKN / Nanniode / India
For me Simon is the MVP of this. Incredibly well moderated
Thank you
Truly one if the most informative, heartfelt and clarifying conversations I’ve listened to on the subject of non-duality and the self. Simon did a masterful job of moderating the discussion between two gems of this world. Thanks to all three!
Thank you :)
This has been by far the most helpful and inspiring post since long. It really helped me to transcend the remaining suffering i cant get rid of, similar to bernado.
If all videos were to be removed from TH-cam except one; This would be the one 🔥♥️ My deepest gratitude and love!
I admire both of you and the wisdom you bring to the same place from two very different directions
What an incredible conversation with incredible teachers! So greatful for this
What is amazing and beautiful is that Rupert Spira comes at this existential quest through the heart and Bernardo Kastrup comes at it through the intellect, and, lo and behold (!), they end up in the same place totally resonating with each other. It is a blessing to be witness to this dialogue/trialogue. Hopefully, it can have some fundamental pragmatic application and impact in the world! We are in a state of huge need for this way of approaching existence and the understanding of reality...
yes comforting ideas and death denying ideologies pull people like cow pie attract flies....
“The intellect is the bouncer of the heart.” 💗
Perfect combination of deep experiential understanding with art by words and sharp intellectual arguments for them who approach this topic with scientific point of view. I enjoyed a lot of this conversation. Maybe someday there will be book authored together by Rupert and Bernando. :)
Your devition to truth is stronger than your devotion ro personal identity...🙏
Truth, joy and Bach.
This was such a joy to listen to. I really resonated with what Rupert said about quiet courage to stay with truth at 2:24:42. Beautifully said. And hearing conversations like this give me the courage to remain on this path
“It’s about surrendering to what nature wants to do throughh you.” MMMM 👏🏼👏🏼
Kudos to all three participants in this video for this insightful and thought-provoking discussion. Admittedly, I am nitpicking, but Bernardo’s explanation around 35:50 that “Consciousness is that whose excitation is experience” seems to be logically deficient. Since there is never a time when experience ceases to exist, and since experience is an excitation of Consciousness in Bernardo’s formulation, it follows logically that there is never a time when excitation of Consciousness ceases. Thus, Consciousness can never exist without excitation. This implies that Consciousness, in Bernardo’s formulation, has a limitation, i.e., the inability to exist without excitation. However, this cannot be since Consciousness is limit-free. Perhaps, this deficiency can be overcome by amending Bernardo’s formulation as “Consciousness is that whose *apparent* excitation is *objective* experience”. The implication of this proposed reformulation is that Consciousness, as our true nature, is excitation-free and as such is free to exist with excitation, without excitation, with and without excitation, or neither with excitation nor without excitation.
Enlightenment does not come about by trying to understand it with the mind
@@doublej7257 Seems to me that “trying to understand enlightenment” can only be the preoccupation of those who believe that, without enlightenment, they do not exist as what they already are.
@@doublej7257 -"Enlightenment does not come about by trying to understand it with the mind"
-......that explains why people will believe in anything lol.
@@doublej7257 mind is the human tool for understanding.
@@steveflorida8699 once you have achieved no mind, you have achieved enlightenment
At different time and a time before. I heard you both and separately and sensed something so joyous.
Transformative conversation- My hope is all of us who respond to the deep truths articulated by Kastrup and Spira take this way of perceiving back into the worlds we inhabit and allow it to permeate the way we interconnect with other beings
I'm immeasurably grateful for content like this. Thank you so much!!
Bernardo and Rupert performed as expected, being juggernauts of mind and thought. But what astounded me was the moderator-he administered the finest interview between these two men that I have witnessed. So often the moderator is either a sycophant or an intransigent but rarely a truth revealer by virtue of the questions they ask, the way they listen and their intuitive timing. He nailed it all. 👍
well this topic isn't that demanding. What all three of them had to do was to express their comforting beliefs on how they would like reality to be. Such made up beliefs don't demand any Academic knowledge or rigorous facts. Any opinion that can ease the existential and epistemic anxieties of others is welcomed without a second thought...
Fantastic discussion…. Thx so much all of you!🙏🏻
Simply Great!!! Thank you to sll of you🙏
Wow, what a beautiful and fruitful conversation. This is such a perfect example of "the whole exceeds the sum of its parts", which is really saying something given the quality of each of these individuals.
Beautiful. The joy is real
What a wonderful person Rupert is, such warmth, genuinity and compassion while also being sharp and intellectual. Really Interesting combination
Such a beautiful, deep, intelligent and inspiring conversation. Thank you for leading the way. The more I live this understanding the happier I am and the more joy and love flows through me. And the more obvious it feel that this is the truth of what we are.
Wow, what a phenomenal conversation! Having recently had this profound non-dual realization myself, I have been attempting to put it into the proper context of how to think and live in the world. This really helped me sort out how the individual can thrive while realizing that it is not actually a separate self. I am familiar with Rupert's work but had not listened to Bernardo before this. His passion for how we can find rich purpose in surrendering to what nature wants to do through us is so beautiful to hear. I will have to listen to this again!
I get all giddy with joy and excitement upon hearing about thy self . And then my heart wells up with love. like a lantern guiding my way home
I'm appreciative of Bernardo, because I am the people he mentions helping, starting at 2:21:00
Wonderful conversation, superbly moderated. Thank You.
There is something about this Consciousness - Matter dichotomy that seems to me to reflect the fundamentally inherent aspect of the human psyche that needs to 'split' (in the psychodynamic meaning of the term). A desire to create 'either/or' positions of perceived stability.
What resonated for me was hearing Dr Iain McGilchrist posit his sense that matter seemed most likely a phase of consciousness. (analogous to the phases of water)
For me this resonates with my understanding of non-duality, : - neither dualism nor monism. ('both/and' rather than 'either/or')
It seems to me that "Everything is made" not 'either' of Consciousness 'or' Matter,
but 'both' Consciousness 'and' Matter as different phases of the same fundamental '.........?'
I was walking my dogs a couple of years ago... Pondering. I had the thought that everything and we were gods dream... To hear Rupert say those words when he was 7 resonated hard❤️
Excellent! Thanks to All!💞
This is one of those things I can never get enough of. This is candy for my curiosity!!! 😃❤
Rupert and Bernardo are a beautiful collab! Ruperts minimalistic use of his words touch one very very deeply and Bernardo is so humble and is able to take complex concepts and turns it into something very easy to understand. This minimalistic and easy understandable responses are intelligence not creating a spiral of complexity like our culture seems to think.
Ruperts analogies are so vivid in general but the moth-flame-analogy… puh that hit different🙏
So much love and wisdom from both. TY x